561 Comments

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• 351.mpundulu:
  12 Oct 2011, 16:53 pm

  Michael: I enjoy jdj, but I think he needs to vary his sidestep more, at times he seems too predictable but he’s very explosive and defenders have to track him constantly.

• 352.Brigadier Van Zyl:
  12 Oct 2011, 16:53 pm

  @Michael(mikeybrass)-348:

  I doubt jdj will get very far in international rugby. he’ll be carried on the bench for a couple seasons before drifting off somewhere.

  he’s as much a one trick pony as olivier ever was.

• 353.nama1:
  12 Oct 2011, 16:57 pm

  @grant10(grant10)-294:
  Hahaha

  We’ll just call it, “playing to our traditional strength”.

• 354.mpundulu:
  12 Oct 2011, 16:59 pm

  Brigadier: Morne Steyn doesn’t have an instinctual 10′s game. He seems confused with the ball and can’t decide what to do with it when running, he’s incredibly comfortable in the pocket he only has two decisions to make, up and under or long out of hand kick. When he stands flatter that’s when the nightmare begins, he can’t read defensive alignments, he doesn’t communicate to his 12, his doesn’t attack the line, he doesn’t drift, it’s just a mess.

• 355.Brigadier Van Zyl:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:01 pm

  @mpundulu(mpundulu)-354:

  it’s a wonder the bulls win anything when put like that…..

• 356.Brigadier Van Zyl:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:03 pm

  I’d bet that morne will still be the bok flyhalf next season regardless of whom is chosen as coach.

  (and jon smit as captain for a sneaky R5 bet at 150000-1)

• 357.mpundulu:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:04 pm

  Brigadier: you can’t compare meisiekind to jdj, meisiekind has a problem with passing, he can’t pass to the left, no sidestep, he’s very direct so predictable. Do you still remember jdj try against the waratahs in the semifinal at newlands? Meisiekind wanks over that try!

• 358.malcolm:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:07 pm

  @Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl)-355: Super Rugby is different to test rugby. Wynand Olivier has at times looked like a superstar for the bulls as has Spies but never for the boks. The All Blacks with all their talent in the backline have looked ordinary without Carter. A modern day flyhalf has to be able to do it all at test level or he will cost you against the better teams.

• 359.Michael:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:07 pm

  @mpundulu(mpundulu)-357: JdJ rules

  SA needs a flyhalf in the mould of Stransky or Naas – silky runners, can play beautifully instinctive or tight and can put the backline away into space.

• 360.mpundulu:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:11 pm

  Brigadier: superrugby defenses are notoriously porous, Morne I’m sure has a lovely time but when he’s up against the Aussies and the AB’s that’s when you realize his shortcomings, even against wales there’s was nothing to his running game.

• 361.mpundulu:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:13 pm

  Michael: I think Elton jantjies and Lambie are the way to go for SA, if they getting their still ball kicking percentages up there then Steyn won’t stand a chance!

• 362.Brigadier Van Zyl:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:20 pm

  @mpundulu(mpundulu)-357: @mpundulu(mpundulu)-357:

  I agree, wynand is predictable….but jdj is by far the worst passer at 12 in sa.when by accident he does pass, 9 out 10 times it’s aimed at the grass.

  @Michael(mikeybrass)-359:

  so long as jean is playing 12, there’s no space or angle outside the 10

• 363.Michael:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:21 pm

  @mpundulu(mpundulu)-361: I am a fan of Jantjies at flyhalf, Lambie at fullback (I like the way he joins the line and he will get faster with improved conditioning, much like Joubert), F Steyn at 12 and Fourie at 13. JdJ as backup 12 & 13.

• 364.Big Hit:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:21 pm

  @Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl)-344: agree, good post, surely now Frans Steyn has settled the No.12 debate.

• 365.Michael:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:21 pm

  @Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl)-362: The Stormers produced more tries with JdJ at 12 than with JdV.

• 366.Brigadier Van Zyl:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:23 pm

  Lambie should stick at 15, steyn at 12, steyn morne will be there at 10 for another season until we see some superrugby form from the new batch.

  I like jantjies but until i see something more in superrugby…..I remember last season all to well

• 367.nama1:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:23 pm

  @malcolm(malcolm)-358:
  Quite a few Bulls players who looked like superstars until they were selected for the Boks. You mentioned WO.

  What about Spies, Kirchner, Gary Botha, Dean Greyling, Flip vd Merwe and my all time favourite, Steggies.

  Says a lot about the Bulls that they can make these okes look like world class international players in Super rugby.

• 368.Brigadier Van Zyl:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:23 pm

  @Michael(mikeybrass)-365:

  so what, I think they are both ordinary.

• 369.Brigadier Van Zyl:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:24 pm

  @nama1(nama1)-367:

  yeah, exactly!

  heyneke meyer for bok coach!!

• 370.Michael:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:24 pm

  @Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl)-368: We agree in Steyn at 12 at least

• 371.sondebok:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:25 pm

  SA starting team for the semi aginst Samoa in four years` time:
  1)Beast
  2)Bismark
  3)Coenie
  4)J Kruger
  5)Bekker
  6)Brussow
  7)ALberts
  8)Burger
  9)Hougie
  10)Goosen
  11)Mvovo
  12)F Steyn
  13)Juan de Jong
  14)Mapoe
  15)Lambie

• 372.Brigadier Van Zyl:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:27 pm

  @malcolm(malcolm)-358:

  but most times you do not have a flyhalf that can do it all at test level. those sort of flyhalfs are once in a generation players.

  outside of that all you can do is pick the best you’ve got

  let’s not forget that the only wins against the kiwis of late have been with morne there. that counts for a lot in SA rugby, or any rugby for that matter.

• 373.Brigadier Van Zyl:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:28 pm

  @sondebok(sondebok)-371:

  fck dude, didn’t read past burger.

  he’ll be like, 40 or something in 4 years.

  that’s about the same age as jon smits kids or something…

• 374.mpundulu:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:28 pm

  @Michael(mikeybrass)-363: Agreed Jantjies at 10 and Lambie at 15, could be spicy. Jacque Fourie, I’m not convinced on that chap from an attack perspective, I think his powers have waned a bit.

• 375.Brigadier Van Zyl:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:30 pm

  @sondebok(sondebok)-371:
  outside of that, it’s not a bad guess….but I’ve got serious issue with 13 and 14.

  jdj is a one trick pony and I really question mapoe’s aptitude. he comes across as a nut job.

• 376.mpundulu:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:31 pm

  @Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl)-366: Jantjies will bring something good for the super season!

• 377.malcolm:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:33 pm

  I see no point at all at keeping Steyn at flyhalf. The time to make the changes is right now. We may go through a tough year in 2012 blooding the youngsters but it needs to be done and not delayed. I think decisions need to be made about where Lambie and Hougard play once and for all and lets not set them back like they did with Frans Steyn and to some extent Pienaar by playing them constantly in different positions. I have said it numerous times and will say it again they should also give Pierre Spies a season (for the bulls at first) on the wing. He is not an international class number 8 but he is a great athlete and may become a top class winger. I would also replace J. Fourie he will not be around for another World Cup so we need to find his replacement now.

• 378.mpundulu:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:35 pm

  @Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl)-375: Mapoe is the exact type player that the boks need, he’s true ball player, he can play wing, centre, and full back, has oodles of talent and does not give an inch.

• 379.sondebok:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:36 pm

  @Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl)-375: I`m not so sure Mossie has another 4 years in him, and outside of JdJ there seems to be a paucity of quality 13`s a. I like the look of Sadie from an attacking point of view, but unless he bulks up a bit I don`t think he`ll cut it as a test 13. Maybe stick him on the wing then in place of BA Mapoe. However, I`m sure the Cheetahs or the Boland region will produce another great 13 that will no doubt be snapped up by the bulls in the next four years.

• 380.mpundulu:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:40 pm

  @malcolm(malcolm)-377: Good points, Morne must go that is critical. I think bring in Jantjies, and steyn on the bench for the first year, Lambie at 15, steyn at 12, jdj at 13, hougaard at 9, movovo and mapoe as fliers. exciting backline, now let’s hope there’s a coach to pull them together.

• 381.Michael:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:44 pm

  Fourie is young enough to make the next WC. Anyways, what is the sense of looking to the next WC when the aim to get the Boks winning again consistently to create a culture into which future players can be eased.

  Fourie is a fantastic organiser of the backline and will excel in a side playing attacking, structured rugby.

• 382.mpundulu:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:44 pm

  I would like to see the bok backline workrate increase, support runners, wings picking gaps in general play, and a flyhalf who can control the rhythm of an incisive running game.

• 383.Brigadier Van Zyl:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:44 pm

  @mpundulu(mpundulu)-378:

  I thought mapoe was awesome at the cheetahs but what has gone on since then has left me a little cold.

  people need to understand that a new bok coach will not just go ahead and select 22 new players, the team will evolve over a couple of seasons. Only a whack job will select 22 new players for his first tests. I’d imagine we see as many as 8 in the first 30 man squad, which is already a lot in my opinion. The problem we have is that snor hardly evolved at all. think back to 2004 when marius joubert was a legend at ellis park…by late 2005 he was gone.

  I also still rate hougaard as a better winger than a 9, and actually, quite possibly the best wing in the country.

  9 is definately a position that is wide open. I have a hunch that ruan pienaar has unfinished business.

• 384.malcolm:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:44 pm

  @nama1(nama1)-367: Its a different game Super rugby compared to test rugby. Franchises have limited player selection so all the teams have areas of weakness. The Bulls at their best had the greatest lock pairing probably ever a very tough front row and good loose forwards. This proved too much for most other franchises especially in the rarified Loftus atmosphere and once they were on a roll everyone looked good. But now and then a team stood up to their forwards and then the bulls looked very very ordinary. The boks have been playing Heyneke Meyer rugby since Jake White with mixed results. I think the time has come for some kiwi influence in our coaching.

• 385.mpundulu:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:46 pm

  @Michael(mikeybrass)-381: Perhaps, he’ll strive but there needs to be far competition for positions in the boks, they need to shed this culture of guaranteeing certain players their spots.

• 386.bryce_in_oz:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:46 pm

  @mpundulu(mpundulu)-378:

  Mapoe has no kicking game at all and poor positional play… there is no way he can play 15 in fact he’s being playing better at 13 than wing exactly because of that…

  He’s yet to make the step-up to S15 level in any position…

• 387.Brigadier Van Zyl:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:50 pm

  @mpundulu(mpundulu)-382:

  exactly, our backs need to adjust their mindset and become as desparate on attack as they often are on defence.

  It has always puzzled me how a team like the cheetahs always plays a very attractive brand of rugby regardless of whom they have availible or calibre of player.

  personally,I believe it is a mindset supported by good forward play and quick ruck ball

• 388.mpundulu:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:53 pm

  @Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl)-383: Mapoe was being paid in the region of R7,500 per month at the Cheetahs, he had no choice but to run, this is a professional sport you go where you are paid most. It’s precisely the reason the cheetahs lose a lot players.

  You are right the coach won’t select 22 new players but he’ll want to phase out players over the first leading to the second season. I have no doubt that Pierre Spies will be gone, Morne Steyn will play a role but he’ll get his marching orders shortly thereafter if Jantjies or Lambie’s kicking is up there. Habana and JPP gone, JDV will join them. Ruan Pienaar is not allowed in a Bok jersey anymore. I’m not sure how Jacque Fourie will fair but let’s see.

• 389.Michael:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:53 pm

  @mpundulu(mpundulu)-385: Agreed. We musn’t go to the Straeuli extreme though.
  And part of that problem is SA fans are inconsistently consistent.

• 390.nama1:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:55 pm

  @mpundulu(mpundulu)-380:
  That back three of yours will be exposed on defence, I fear.

  Why not JPP on one wing? Left or right.

  I alway felt that he would do much better on the left (he plays there for the Sharks, no?) but with Habana cemented in on the left wing, JPP had to move over.

• 391.mpundulu:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:56 pm

  @bryce_in_oz(bryce_in_oz)-386: I disagree, from what I’ve seen his kicking game is adequate and his positional play is not lacking but my point was that he has ball awareness, a quality sorely needed by the boks.

• 392.mpundulu:
  12 Oct 2011, 17:58 pm

  @Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl)-387: It is a mindset, no doubt, this is instilled through a culture at a franchise, the cheetahs breath it.

• 393.Michael:
  12 Oct 2011, 18:00 pm

  @mpundulu(mpundulu)-392: Indeed. WP and NTvl had it in the 80s too.

• 394.mpundulu:
  12 Oct 2011, 18:01 pm

  @Michael(mikeybrass)-389: I wouldn’t advocate a straeuli route at all, I think that there are those players in the bok who’ve not performed in years, they need to be cut. Boks have to bring in youngers and start building experience and confidence in them and not just bring them off the bench for some cameos.

• 395.nama1:
  12 Oct 2011, 18:05 pm

  @Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl)-387:
  “personally,I believe it is a mindset supported by good forward play and quick ruck ball”

  You are right Brig. It is a mindset. Why is it that when we play minnows our boys seem to be able to play an expansive game? I believe they run onto the field with the plan to run the ball but when we play stronger opposition, we believe that the only way to beat them, is with our “traditional strength” ie playing with our forwards.

  Yes, I know it is easier to run with the ball against Fiji, Nam and the likes because we are going to dominate upfront, but the AB’s seem to try and run with the ball whether their pack dominate or not.

  80% of the times it ends in a victory for them.

• 396.mpundulu:
  12 Oct 2011, 18:06 pm

  @nama1(nama1)-390: Mvovo looked disorganized on defence on the away leg of the trinations, this is where a defensive coach comes into play and effective inside communicators will be pivotal to ensuring that he’s covering the wing adequately. I believe that can be sorted out.

  JPP for me does not have the work rate I believe a modern winger should have in the mould of Guildford, Ioane, Kahui, SBW, O’Connor, and Corey Jane. I think Mapoe could add that element as he always looks to take advantage of space.

• 397.mpundulu:
  12 Oct 2011, 18:06 pm

  @Michael(mikeybrass)-393: AC has killed it out of WP.

• 398.Samba Bok:
  12 Oct 2011, 18:10 pm

  @Jeez(Jeez)-317: No please not Schalk as captain. Its time for Schalk to hang his boots up. He is a legend but his headless chicken style of play is obsolete. He is a brilliant defender but terrible at attacking. All he does is run into traffic and get turned over. Sunday’s game was a classic example. Runs from his tryline head first into a ton of Aussie defenders and then gets turned over leading to a try. Why didn’t he pass? He hardly ever passes. Schalk is part of the old cancer along with Spies, Habana and JdV. I would be tempted to say so is Jacque Fourie who also love crashball running into traffic but I think he could still play a part. Habs must only be brought back if he can regain form at Super rugby level.

  The only old player I would like to see back is Juan Smith. Perhaps Bakkies because he adds so much mongrel but if he is also a liability when it comes to discipline.

  Apart from that, we should only be using the current crop of players who are performing. Lambie, Bismarck, Brussow, Alberts, Beast, JdJ, Frans Steyn, Hougaard. Once we found a better replacement for Jannie he also needs to go.

• 399.malcolm:
  12 Oct 2011, 18:10 pm

  @mpundulu(mpundulu)-396: Jp is an example of what is wrong with our coaching. When he first burst on the scene he was a great attacking talent who could do the unexpected and win and sometimes lose you a match on his own. His defence was somewhat suspect though. Now Jp is very good defensively but all that attacking ability he had has been coached out of him.

• 400.Samba Bok:
  12 Oct 2011, 18:11 pm

  @mpundulu(mpundulu)-396: What about Sithole? He’s got good pace from what I saw last weekend.

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