567 Comments

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• 101.Jeez:
  13 Oct 2011, 10:49 am

  @mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-98: pppfff youre not getting it. Forget about Mallet. He was just an example of a good coach, denying that is moronic, with good credentials. If I used HMeyer as an example you would probably have a mouth full to say about him too.

  My point I was trying to make is that we cant afford to appoint a coach who has not proven himself. AC’s a solid coach, but with no real success. The boks deserves a truly professional coach. Why are you fighting me on this?

• 102.David:
  13 Oct 2011, 10:51 am

  In all these discussions of a national coach, I think a point is being missed, and that is the type of players and skill sets being developed at CC and S15 level. The Bok coaches can coach strategy, moves and formations, but they can’t teach skills and creativity (independent thinking) to a player that’s already been trained differently. Eddie managed to add a few touches, but I doubt whether he changed the players mindset and approach.
  Luckily, we’ve seen a distinct change in approach my most senior provincial coaches that a national coach can build on and exploit.

• 103.mshiniwami:
  13 Oct 2011, 10:54 am

  @Jeez(Jeez)-96:

  Allister Coetzee:

  Has extensive coaching experience in SA,has a WC winners medal as bok assistant coach,has a 3N medal as well even before Eddie Jones came in in 07.He was the backs coach when SA had their best period under Jake in 2004-2005 which was the best rugby we played under White. and thats when he had his highest winning percentage. AC was the proponent of the umbrella defense along with Jake which has influenced international defenses since.

  He then stepped in as WP head coach after Mallett,Fester failed and as well as Rassie who struggled with consistency and never made any knockout rounds with them.Coetzee stepped in 2009 and made immediate impact making 2 straight finals S14 and CC in same year.Never been done by WP at any period and only Bulls dynasty and Sharks in 96 have replicated that.Both coaches of the 2 dynasties are respected in SA.

  He has in the last 3-4 monthys managed to keep WP in running for CC title with lots of injuries,revived careers of likes of Schalk Burger,Tiaan Liebenberg etc unearthed gems like Carr,Kolisi,Branche,de Jongh,Aplon,Sadie etc etc

  WP is now a power again in SA due to AC.When Rassie was head coach they never had even close what AC has done yet many want to attribute it all to him.

  Im not against credentials,which is why I like AC-he has his own.

• 104.David:
  13 Oct 2011, 10:58 am

  @mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-103:
  I reckon we also keep in mind that Rassies didn’t have the Varsity cup as a development platform. To be fair, I think AC has also benefited from the work done by Rassie over the last 3 years in developing the youth structures. I doubt whether AC just pulled those youngsters of a hat.

• 105.mshiniwami:
  13 Oct 2011, 10:58 am

  @Jeez(Jeez)-101:

  Not fighting you on anything.

  I have my opinion,you have yours.

• 106.mshiniwami:
  13 Oct 2011, 11:01 am

  @David(David)-104:

  Of the squad that made S14 final & CC final last year,how many were Varsity Cup products? During Fester’s tenure Maties were the top team in SA,SS club champions if Im not mistaken. Still produced kak.

• 107.Tacitus:
  13 Oct 2011, 11:05 am

  @mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-103:

  Yeah, and the moment Rassie left to join the Boks WP’s season started falling apart…

• 108.Jeez:
  13 Oct 2011, 11:06 am

  I dont agree. AC is in Rassies shadow, just like he was in White’s. He needs some success rates as coach, some titles, before im convinced. His conservative style is also nothing close to what the springboks need right now.

  Heck you just discribed every coach that has come close to success but not acheived it. Atleast someone like Plumtree with similar ‘success’ of his own, have won a currie cup. Starting to think youre not really getting what i am saying.

  The succuss of a team doesnt really count on your CV if you werent head coach.Being the head coach is tough. Getting success is even tougher. Your definition of success is obviously not what the boks need. If SARU appoints the next coach with your logic i wont be surprised if AC gets it, imo it wont be the best decision for SA rugby.

  No success= no bok job. lots of success=gets the bok job.

• 109.ufo:
  13 Oct 2011, 11:09 am

  @mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-103:

  very rational well-articulated and informative post…

• 110.wooden spoon:
  13 Oct 2011, 11:12 am

  @mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-98: To illustrate how accepting of mediocrity some of us have become, we are now straining to list the ‘achievements’ of some of the ‘front runners’. Arguing over who is ‘kakker’ is more apt.

  I remember the Bok backline as being particularly poor during Jake White’s tenure – largely unadventurous and over reliant on opposition errors (pressure) and intercepts. If our back line was so hot (as you suggest) why did White feel the need to bring in Eddie Jones for RWC 2007?

  And this is another point I have been thinking about: I don’t think that we should retain the specialist assistant coaches (forwards, backs, defence, kicking) for more than 2 years. Their ideas go stale, they get comfortable in the job and cease to keep abreast of developments and come up with new ideas. What has Muir done in the last 4 years? Have we seen anything different at all? Is it acceptable that for 8 long years we have only had Coetzee and then Muir working with the backs?

  Coetzee has reached 3 finals in the last 2 years. Good for him. He clearly is a decent enough coach.

  But his teams lost. Finished 2nd best. He is not a winner (not yet). And the Boks need a coach with the winning touch (not a coach whose team this year was beaten at home by the best NZ team (twice) and the best Aus team).

  Why settle for second best?

• 111.mshiniwami:
  13 Oct 2011, 11:13 am

  @Tacitus(Deucalion)-107:

  No wasnt due to Rassie leaving,their injury situation ballooned.They were down to their 5th choice 10 with Grant gone,van Aswegen,Coleman,Catrikilis,Cronje all injured.

  Loose forward depleted with all of Carr,Kolisi,Vermuelen,Hatxenberg injured and Kitshoff with Namibia. Were playing that Daniller kid and some other unknown loosie.Had to play Fourie on the flank

  With frontrow depleted as well Kitshoff,JD Moller etc injured.Perenially injured Malherbe etc

  I could go on. But they still kept in the semi race,beat the Sharks at home

  Its cool,u dont have to give props were they are due. Pine Pienaar must get all yours.

• 112.wooden spoon:
  13 Oct 2011, 11:14 am

  Erasmus is not the answer either.

• 113.Tacitus:
  13 Oct 2011, 11:16 am

  There is only 1 South African coach good enough to take us forward. If he isn’t interested, then I suggest we look abroad.

• 114.Jeez:
  13 Oct 2011, 11:19 am

  @wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-112: Nope. There’s too much speculation on the influence Rassie has on the performance of the Stormers and WP. If we can look beyond AC and Rassie I think we need to go and encourage other coaches to apply.

• 115.wooden spoon:
  13 Oct 2011, 11:21 am

  @Tacitus(Deucalion)-113: sadly, I heard Venter isn’t interested.

• 116.bryce_in_oz:
  13 Oct 2011, 11:21 am

  @Jeez(Jeez)-101:

  AC was the assistant coach of a team that won the 3N, RWC and was the Laureat Sports team of the world that ended at number 1 in the world rankings at the end of his tenure… after that he went to the Stormers and immediately took them from non-contenders to making the play-offs for two years running…

  What more must he do?

  For the record I’m not sold on him but to say he doesn’t have enough experience at the highest level is a bit thin… or do you feel he was a passenger under JW and now Rassie?

• 117.bryce_in_oz:
  13 Oct 2011, 11:23 am

  @bryce_in_oz(bryce_in_oz)-116:

  Oops… missed your posts above… touche…

• 118.mshiniwami:
  13 Oct 2011, 11:24 am

  @Jeez(Jeez)-108:

  That is utter BS,Otherwise likes of Robbie Deans are not as great as they are. He was assistant to all from Wayne Smith at Saders/All Blacks,as well as Mitchell at AB’s. Many may argye Deans built little if anything as Wayne Smith took perenial under achievers Canterbury from last in 96 S12 to a dynasty that won 2 straight titles under him. he discovered the finest generation of players in NZ and Saders,put in structures that churn out talent still and have made post his tenure successful. Todd Blackadder is also example of such. Yet Smith when he stepped up to the AB after John hart-who by the way hadnt achieved much in NZ provincial rugby barring Ponsoby Club rugby who he made a powerhouse yet he was brilliant for AB’s.Smith failed completely at AB’s even though he was architect of Canterbury powerhouse and ultimately NZ talent conveyor belt and Deans dynasty.

  Yet out of all the above Mitchell had the best record with AB’s and he won JACKSH*T prior to Ab post. Yeah u heard me JACKSH*T.Proceeded to win 2 straight and utterly dominant 3N in 2002 & 2003.

• 119.mshiniwami:
  13 Oct 2011, 11:26 am

  @wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-115:

  He doesnt mean Venter,

  He wants Heynecke Meyer.And wants him to be begged to take post as well.

  Free reign.

  Dont know what world that is in,WHATEVER the SITUATION

• 120.Tacitus:
  13 Oct 2011, 11:27 am

  @wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-115:

  Ja I’m not really in the mood for jokes today. Just don’t choke while laughing at your own punchline.

• 121.once more just take a break on the beach, dear springboks, once more...:
  13 Oct 2011, 11:28 am

  @mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-103:
  wow! talk about rewarding mediocrity.
  its a lengthy post and i cannot reply with equal consideration but this is in a nutshell my feelings on your estimation and praise of ac.

• 122.Tacitus:
  13 Oct 2011, 11:30 am

  @once more just take a break on the beach, dear springboks, once more…(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-121:

  Geeve heeem anatha chance…

• 123.bryce_in_oz:
  13 Oct 2011, 11:31 am

  @mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-118:

  Yep Deans is shite in your opinion… yet he’s developed excellent depth in his young side the past 4 yrs… won the 3N this year… has four consecutive wins against the Boks has broken the home and highveld voodoo for good… is into the semi finals and if they don’t take the Cup will still more than likely end up the second ranked team in the world…

  Tough standards you set considering the Boks will end the year at 4th if they’re lucky and last in the 3N…

• 124.Gunther:
  13 Oct 2011, 11:32 am

  @Tacitus(Deucalion)-120:

  Meyer should tell saru to go fuckthemselves and concentrate on the bulls.

• 125.Tacitus:
  13 Oct 2011, 11:35 am

  @Gunther(gunther)-124:

  I think that is probably what will happen.

• 126.bryce_in_oz:
  13 Oct 2011, 11:36 am

  @Gunther(gunther)-124:

  Couldn’t agree more… Bulls need some hard work to get back into S15 play-off contention particularly with plenty of seniors on their way out and current depth seemingly weak…

  Well that and the Snor debacle!

• 127.once more just take a break on the beach, dear springboks, once more...:
  13 Oct 2011, 11:36 am

  @Tacitus(Deucalion)-113:
  no, this is our lebanese moment.

  if he does not take this job then trully south african rugby will die.
  it will die and we will become like wales and similar nations.

  he should know and understand that we are at a crossroads and people are looking to him for salvation and leadership.

  i hope he responds.

• 128.Transformation:
  13 Oct 2011, 11:38 am

  @Gunther(gunther)-124: no man, you selfish nincompoop…

  nation before union!

• 129.mshiniwami:
  13 Oct 2011, 11:46 am

  Funny fckin thing is that if its Coetzee,even if he is head coach-Rassie is the architect yet other coaches dont have to be judged under the same circumstances.Like say Heynecke who struggled to win Superrugby titles until Todd Louden came in….Because even likes of Drotske,Plumtree have won Currie Cups

  But hey….@bryce_in_oz(bryce_in_oz)-123:

  Yeah yet if he loses on weekend,which he will as Henry owns him at 13-3,he would still have a worse record than Knuckles Connolly.

  He sole 3N win is on the back of the fact that Oz was the only team to play at full strength the entire tournament. And still just managed to win.

  Talk about about lucky,thats fckin rich-Bryce Lawrence is Oz’s lucky rabbits foot.Should wear him around their necks on Saturday.

• 130.Black Panther:
  13 Oct 2011, 11:46 am

  @>^..^< katman(katman)-43:

  You cant read very well.

  “1124.Black Panther:
  10 Oct 2011, 13:20 pm @>^..^< katman(katman)-1121: Therefore, touch the turf before the line – no try – but lean the ball forward and hit the padding, which is what McCaw did, and a Try should be awarded. Defunkts point is the valid one, I say the boot was not between ball and the turf. We disagree on that point, only."

  "touch the turf before the line…..lean forward and hit the padding".

  Where I was wrong was that he didnt "touch the turf" first. I was at EP and thought, from the screen, that McCaw hit the turf and the padding. But I accept, after seeing on replay at home, that the foot was probably in the way before he hit the padding. Probably.

  Try and make a meal out of it Kat, you must be starving.

• 131.once more just take a break on the beach, dear springboks, once more...:
  13 Oct 2011, 11:46 am

  i mean damascus moment .
  i think.

• 132.Jeez:
  13 Oct 2011, 11:48 am

  Well bring on AC, let the conservative boks continue! If AC gets a good assistants-proper backline coach, then it might be ok. Kiwi would be good.

• 133.Transformation:
  13 Oct 2011, 11:52 am

  @Black Panther(Black Panther)-130: Contortionista SUPREME bwahahahahaha

  so on the strength of ssit you weren’t sure of you accused Shaun Veldsman of denying McCaw a “legitimate try”?

• 134.Black Panther:
  13 Oct 2011, 11:53 am

  @once more just take a break on the beach, dear springboks, once more…(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-93:

  do you mis-quote things intentionally (sorry, rhetorical ques) ?

  that was not “the keewis report on bryce never getting to ref again”

  that was “yet another Safa, and atleast 65,000 others, blames the ref for a loss” as cut’n'pasted in a NZ paper for the readers to omit a large and hearty

  @GUFFAW@

• 135.Black Panther:
  13 Oct 2011, 11:59 am

  @Transformation(Transformation)-133:

  ah, old Captain von Trapp.

  funny how youre omnipresent for any little – acknowledged – slip up

  and yet oddly absent when youve been, repeatedly, exposed yourself.

  Can you tell the difference between a ‘lie/fib’ and ‘being wrong’ yet ?

  Hey, von Trapp, did Keo ever say “NZ rugby is kak” ?

• 136.Transformation:
  13 Oct 2011, 12:05 pm

  @Black Panther(Black Panther)-135: exposed by who, you? tl tl tl joker

  “Where I was wrong was that he didnt “touch the turf” first. I was at EP and thought, from the screen, that McCaw hit the turf and the padding. But I accept, after seeing on replay at home, that the foot was probably in the way before he hit the padding. Probably.”

  again you are LYING, you knew McCaw never hit the turf hence you said this to Defunkt:

  1118.Black Panther said:
  10 Oct 2011, 11:44 am
  @defunkt(defunkt)-1113:

  only needs to touch the padding or post, which it clearly did.

  this all you before you went and read the rules and discovered that “grounding” actually has to happen not just mere touching the pad or post… try and wangle yourself out of this one

  dunce

• 137.Black Panther:
  13 Oct 2011, 12:09 pm

  @Transformation(Transformation)-136:

  did Keo ever say “NZ rugby is kak” ?

• 138.Black Panther:
  13 Oct 2011, 12:11 pm

  Its a Yes or No, von Trapp.

  Answer the Question. Simple. Dont disappear. Dont say “its a von trapp”

  Yes or No.

• 139.Black Panther:
  13 Oct 2011, 12:12 pm

  hands up those who think von Trapp says Yes or No ?

  Yes

  or

  No.

• 140.Black Panther:
  13 Oct 2011, 12:13 pm

  No

• 141.Black Panther:
  13 Oct 2011, 12:13 pm

  Yes

• 142.Black Panther:
  13 Oct 2011, 12:14 pm

  Yes

  or

• 143.mshiniwami:
  13 Oct 2011, 12:14 pm

  @bryce_in_oz(bryce_in_oz)-123:

  Build depth?? what fckin depth are you talkin about? you talking about likes of Slipper,Maafu,Simmons,McAlman,Phibbs,McCabe,Faingaa’s,,Rocket Davies,James hanson,Sicknote Barnes,Hodgson,Beau Robinson,Rob Horne??? yeah right

  Only real depth built is Scott Higginbotham.

  Otherwise Oz outside their starting XV is very thin

• 144.Hurricane:
  13 Oct 2011, 12:14 pm

  @Black Panther(Black Panther)-139:
  He wont answer

• 145.Black Panther:
  13 Oct 2011, 12:14 pm

  No ?

  simple, really.

• 146.Transformation:
  13 Oct 2011, 12:14 pm

  @Black Panther(Black Panther)-137: for a try to be awarded does a player have to ground the ball and touch the padding simultaneously or the player only has to touch the padding? bwahahahahaha

• 147.Black Panther:
  13 Oct 2011, 12:15 pm

  @Hurricane(Hurricane)-144:

  Give him a chance.

  Lets see whether he has the cajones.

• 148.Black Panther:
  13 Oct 2011, 12:16 pm

  @Transformation(Transformation)-146:

  did Keo say “NZ rugby is kak” ?

• 149.Black Panther:
  13 Oct 2011, 12:17 pm

  @Transformation(Transformation)-146:

  be brave, von Trapp.

  Its ok to be wrong.

  Put hairs on your chest.

• 150.bryce_in_oz:
  13 Oct 2011, 12:17 pm

  @mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-129:

  Yep you keep kidding yourself that Deans hasn’t had the wood over your head buffoon in every respect with a 77% win record, 4 consecutive wins and the once proud unbeatable home record continued by Jake White… obliterated…

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