Wales lament Warburton red
15 Oct 2011
Wales have questioned the judgement of referee Alain Rolland in sending off captain Sam Warburton and pointed to it as the decisive action in the Test.
Wales were the better team throughout the Eden Park clash despite being reduced to 14 men as a result of Warburton’s 1th minute red card for what was adjudged to be a spear tackle.
However, coach Warren Gatland was still heavily critical of the decision. ‘It surprised me how quickly the referee made that decision. You’d think that an experienced referee would have consulted his touch judges first. I don’t dispute that he lifted the player, which deserved a yellow card, but he didn’t drive him into the ground,’ Gatland said.
‘We feel like our destiny of winning a World Cup semi-final was taken away by that decision. But I’m proud of how the guys responded in a situation where France should have been comfortable. To get that close was a massive effort.’
Warburton said he never intended to lift winger Vincent Clerc, explaining that his momentum and weight advantage combined to make for a punishing hit. ‘It wasn’t malicious. One minute I was getting up off the ground, the next I was in the stands. I’m gutted.’
Wales had plenty of possession in the closing stages and looked to be setting up a drop goal. Strangely veteran flyhalf Stephen Jones never looked prepared to risk one, consistently calling for the ball to be retained in the forwards. Gatland was non-committal when probed on this issue.
‘We didn’t really ever put ourselves in a good enough shape to do what we wanted to in that situation,’ he said. ‘We had to get more momentum at the gainline, which didn’t come.’
France coach Marc Lièvremont was typically animated despite another mediocre performance from his charges. ‘I don’t care about whether we were good or not. All that matters is that we are in a World Cup final in New Zealand,’ he said.
‘Strangely the numbers advantage seemed to affect us badly. We were expected to win from that position, but the players never controlled the ball like they should have. We made a lot of knock ons and poor decisions. But again, we’re in the final and have a chance to make things right before then.’
Lièvremont said he hoped to face the All Blacks in the final. ‘I’ve always been a lover of the All Blacks and to play against them in the final would be a dream come true. Our history against them at this tournament doesn’t matter, we’ve never beaten them in a final. I’d love to face them.’
By Ryan Vrede, at Eden Park.
162 Comments
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15 Oct 2011, 13:30 pm
I hear everyone bleating how “unlucky” he was to be red carded, instead of rightfully ridiculing such an idiotic tackle. He lifted him into the air, turned him and the Frenchman landed on the back of his neck. It was incredibly dangerous. But no, it appears as though Wales are the new New Zealand, can do no wrong. They were outplayed in key facets of the game, and rightfully are out. They can look to their captain, supposedly the best leader in test rugby, and point fingers at him for letting them down.
15 Oct 2011, 13:34 pm
If anyone sees a conspiracy in this one they need their head read…Rolland was just doing his job…this ruling even dates back to 2009
http://www.deepsouthrugbyunion.com/images/IRB_Memorandum_re_Dangerous_Tackles.pdf
15 Oct 2011, 13:36 pm
even the intent can be ruled out.
Referees and Citing Commissioners should not make their decisions based on what they consider was the intention of the offending player. Their decision should be based on an objective assessment (as per Law 10.4 (e)) of the circumstances of the tackle.
15 Oct 2011, 13:37 pm
@Alucard(Alucard)-1:
Warburton went in HARD. Hit the smaller Yackvali (I think) low, twisted and turned.
In the words of Chief Engineer Scott, of the Star Ship Enterprise,
“You canny ignore the laws of physics”.
15 Oct 2011, 13:37 pm
“…but he didn’t drive him into the ground.”…but he didn’t put him down either.
I supported the Welsh through and through the full 80 minutes but the decision was correct and the judgement was fair. The captain of all should’ve known better. Yes it’s a shame they had to play 60 minutes with 14 men but that’s how it works.
I wish the Bokke had fair judgement in their game.
15 Oct 2011, 13:38 pm
The decision for the red card was correct and Wales were very lucky to make it this far in the RWC, they never stood a chance of winning it, dream on Gatland……..
15 Oct 2011, 13:38 pm
The man was lifted and dropped….he could have easily fallen awkwardly and got seriously injured.
15 Oct 2011, 13:44 pm
Had Halfpenny got the kick over the major talking point would be the unfair penalty against the French.
15 Oct 2011, 13:44 pm
Is it not amazing that even coaches, and GOOD ones at that, don’t really know or even understand the rules as they stand:
Here is the rule, as reasserted just prior to the World Cup:
Here for the record is the rule as summarised recently: The International Rugby Board’s rule on ‘spear tackles’ reads: “It is dangerous play to lift a player from the ground and drop or drive that player into the ground whilst that player’s feet are still off the ground so that the player’s head and/or upper body come into contact with the ground.”
Ahead of the tournament a directive was also issued to referees relating to such tackles, which stated: “Foul play – high tackles, grabbing and twisting of the head and tip tackles to be emphasised, with referees to start at red and work backwards.”
IRB recommended sanctions for such tackles start at bans of three weeks for offences considered to be at the lower end of the scale, six weeks for middle-level transgressions and end at 10 weeks or more for the worst ‘spear tackles’.
In this case the KEY word is “DROP”, see para 1 of the quote. And that is clear.
15 Oct 2011, 13:47 pm
The amended Law 10.4(j) reads: Lifting a player from the ground and dropping or driving that player into the ground whilst that player’s feet are still off the ground such that the player’s head and/or upper body come into contact with the ground is dangerous play.
Red card offense. Once can only argue why so many other spear tackles were not red carded. Inconsistency from the refs throughout this tournament.
Whatever happens tomorrow there is a NZ coach in the final.
15 Oct 2011, 13:50 pm
Sadly, it was the right call. If that wasn’t a red card tip tackle, then nothing is. I feel horrible for Wales and Warburton though. This was their chance. They could have taken either of the other semifinalists. France will get molested in the final.
15 Oct 2011, 14:10 pm
Bullsh!t it was not a red card, The one on Lambie didn’t even get a penalty, the refs are out to get the kiwis a world cup, Aussie betta watch out tomorrow, this is world cup that will remembered for all the wrong reasons, Allain Roland has just completely screwed his legacy, so many years of good reefing, ruined by a moment of madness, there have been plenty of tackles worse than that one that went unpunished!
15 Oct 2011, 14:11 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-11: France are due a big game. Not so sure about that. Hope Australia/New Zealand lose the final. for all the cheating and fiddling no SH side must win it. That’s justice.
15 Oct 2011, 14:12 pm
@Great White Shark(Predawn)-7: he is playing rugby, every scrum could cripple a player, “.he could have easily fallen awkwardly and got seriously injured.” what sort of comment is that! nearly every tackle has the propensity to injure someone by its very nature!
15 Oct 2011, 14:13 pm
@surreyshark4(surreyshark4)-12: Lol some people just won’t stop even when the proofs as obvious as daylight..
15 Oct 2011, 14:14 pm
@Alucard(Alucard)-13: this FRANCE doesn’t have a BIG game in them, they are THE WORSE FRENCH TEAM to have been in a world cup!- whoever wins tomorrow Wins the CUP!!!
15 Oct 2011, 14:19 pm
@surreyshark4(surreyshark4)-16: france were far worse in 2007, and very dire in 2003. New Zealand look shabby, Arse-stale-ia are a joke.
15 Oct 2011, 14:19 pm
@toby(toby)-15: Toby i have watched the tackle a dozen times – if that is a red card the majority of games would either end with 12 players per team or scores like basketball 106 -115 because no one would tackle.
15 Oct 2011, 14:23 pm
@surreyshark4(surreyshark4)-18: Not every game has those tackles. But one thing is for certain, these tackles have the capacity to end lives. Any idiot that defends them should be dumped on their neck to see how they like it.
15 Oct 2011, 14:24 pm
this has turned into an x factor type competition – it not about the performance of the teams(read artists) but about the referees(read Judges)
15 Oct 2011, 14:25 pm
@surreyshark4(surreyshark4)-12:
You are a tool, now every ref from every country is cheating for NZ, get a life mate you’ve been elimnated because you weren’t good enough deal with it.
15 Oct 2011, 14:26 pm
whether its red or yellow is not the point. There is inconsistency in application of laws on the field and it is yet another game screwed up by a refs handling of the game. But like the Boks, Wales had more than enough chances to win so the ref can say that Wales lost rather than France won it.
Either the Wobblies or the Blacks could field their second team and still beat France. France know that whatever happens they will come second.
15 Oct 2011, 14:28 pm
@surreyshark4(surreyshark4)-20: You are right, the referees have directly affected the outcome of most results, or at least ruined most games. Some teams are more favoured than others, just as in 2007 we had to fight against very poor reffing as well as the opposition.
15 Oct 2011, 14:32 pm
@kesbok(kesbok)-22: The difference is that the Boks converted two try opportunities, both were disallowed. A break down the touchline, a 3 on 1, disallowing a guaranteed try. That’s 21 points that the Boks had in the bag disallowed, not to mention the four yellow cardable offences by Australia and the mountain of penalties that should have been awarded. This game was nothing like the boks game. Not even half way close to being so.
15 Oct 2011, 14:33 pm
If it was a yellow would anybody have complained? I think not! Another example of a ref wanting to be important!
15 Oct 2011, 14:34 pm
@Alucard(Alucard)-23:
no whats happend is you have been eliminated because you weren’t good enough, keep whining like a schoolgirl mate its a good look
15 Oct 2011, 14:36 pm
Not sure what the problem is, the rule is posted above, if you cannot understand this, you should try another sport.
He left the ref no option, it is a straight red.
It is not the refs fault, he didn’t nearly paralyse a player.
15 Oct 2011, 14:37 pm
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-26: You are just another idiotic NZ twat. Hows life in the rubble of Christchurch? You should be at home, seeing as you are a filthy gutter rat. The truth of the matter is that the Boks were, yet again, robbed by another filthy New Zealand gimp. The facts are very clear. But keep believing what you want. I couldn’t care less what an utter cleft has to say about the Boks.
15 Oct 2011, 14:37 pm
@surreyshark4(surreyshark4)-14:
Are you trying to be argumentative for the sake of an argument?
He was lifted and dropped dingleberry. Fortunately when he landed he did so on most of his back and not on his neck. Now as with all people with common sense, the chap had no choice in the matter as he was lifted by his lower legs and dropped from a height…it surely must occur to you that the act of being lifted and dropped can disorientate you?
The reason this is a red card offence (as O’Droscol will tell you) is to prevent a tackler from purposely unjuring a player by lifting off him off the ground and then dropping or driving said player at a (almost) 90 degree angle into the ground. The player is disorientated and therfore you will notice that none of the players put their hands out to protect their heads….as they do not know where they are at that moment.
Hmph…wonder how you’d like it.
15 Oct 2011, 14:38 pm
looking forward not sure what will be more entertaining the Aussies getting thumped or the AB’s choking. Tough call
15 Oct 2011, 14:39 pm
The just decision would of been a yellow card.
After the match finished Warburton should have then have had to face a judiciary in which they could decide after viewing replays etc from all angles whether he should miss further matches. That way the team and player is penalized but not the rugby public who miss out on a proper spectacle.
15 Oct 2011, 14:39 pm
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-26: You can be smug, but if you had the same ref give the same performance, what would you say.
Same thing as this tackle, if the Frenchie was in your teams jersey, you would demand red, if the tackler was in your jersey, you would say it is not that bad…
Remember these comments when the ref wheel turns your way.
15 Oct 2011, 14:39 pm
@Alucard(Alucard)-28:
what’s your address I’ll send you a big bag of lemons to suck on you whining schoolgirl, my eight month old daughter whines less than you
15 Oct 2011, 14:39 pm
@Alucard(Alucard)-19:
Zactly.
15 Oct 2011, 14:40 pm
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-33:
Hope you bought nice Bok babygrows for her.
15 Oct 2011, 14:42 pm
@The Bill(The Bill)-32:
for farks sake mate now EVERY ref in the world is cheating so NZ can win a world cup you’re making fools of yourselves after a gut wrenching defeat, every result every card is actioned so NZ can win the cup ALL REFS FROM EVERY COUNTRY ARE CHEATING IN UNISON what a farking joke you guys are
15 Oct 2011, 14:42 pm
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-21: be very strange if a bad reefing decision from a saffa tomorrow knocks you out , we see how you feel then, if there is any justice in the universe it should happen! or maybe susie names is Suzzana
15 Oct 2011, 14:43 pm
@Great White Shark(Predawn)-35:
you want some lemons as well
15 Oct 2011, 14:44 pm
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-33: Your 8 month old rat? Only the one? Unusual for the species.
15 Oct 2011, 14:45 pm
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-36: Easy chap, you are being hysterical.
I asked you a to consider what would happen if you had the same ref performance against you. How would you take it?
I never said anything about the rest of the world refs or any other people, administrators etc. Just the ref performance in a once in a 4 year match.
15 Oct 2011, 14:45 pm
@surreyshark4(surreyshark4)-37:
if it does I wont accuse EVERY SINGLE REF OF CHEATING, in any case how can that happen EVERY SINGLE REF IS CHEATING TO ENSURE NZ WINS, IF WE HAD A FRENCH REF IN THE FINAL HE WOULD ALSO CHEAT SO FRANCE LOST
15 Oct 2011, 14:46 pm
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-38:
You’re sounding terse and uppity. Whazuuup…nerves frayed to bursting point.
15 Oct 2011, 14:46 pm
@surreyshark4(surreyshark4)-16: I agree . This French team are poor and struggled to beat a 14 man Welsh team who did all the attacking. The French never looked like scoring a try. They were not only beaten by Tonga but well beaten.
Having said that Wales had every chance to take out the match and couldn’t take the opportunities offered. Thats test match rugby.
I always believed SA would lose to the Aussies . They are one dimensional and when their forwards cant win a match up front and take the penalties on offer they have no other game plan. NZ and Australia have far more strings to their bow and deserve to go further in the competition. SA need to get a back line. They are twenty years behind in that regard.
15 Oct 2011, 14:48 pm
gatland… (pronounce hid name in afrikaans for my opinion of him…)
it was a dangerous tip-tackle no question… roeland was correct to red card him no question…
gatland suck it up… don’t blame the ref… blame your captain…
also for those saying he didn’t drive the guy into the ground… just look how his left hand pushed the french guy’s face to the side… looked pretty forceful to me…
also… can we imagine the outcry if roeland did NOT card warburton…? and then the players thought it’s open season and they must play the refs interpretations… ?and tip-tackles happen all over the place…? and then someone did get hurt?
well done to roeland for simply applying the law…
BTW… the ref never lost the game for the Boks either… we had our chances to win… but didn’t take them…
off to newlands…
15 Oct 2011, 14:48 pm
@Alucard(Alucard)-39:
how can you say such a thing i’m mortified, she does whine less than you though
@The Bill(The Bill)-40:
it was a red card for a spare tackle
15 Oct 2011, 14:49 pm
@lapoftherugbygods(lapoftherugbygods)-43:
….or a coach that has a clue.
15 Oct 2011, 14:49 pm
@Great White Shark(Predawn)-29: dingleberry nice ring to it gruff nut , thats pretty obvious, maybe you should have a look at the standards of reffing in this world cup under the auspices of paddy o brian, inconsistent, one eyed, badly managed – plenty of examples, if you are going to consistently apply the laws of the game you need the help of your touch judges, he didn’t even consult them, thus what makes it look premeditated! Perception is reality, therefore reality isn’t really the truth!
15 Oct 2011, 14:50 pm
@Great White Shark(Predawn)-42:
no im just laughing at the poor excuses for rugby supporters on this site what a joke pathetic
15 Oct 2011, 14:51 pm
@lapoftherugbygods(lapoftherugbygods)-43: The Boks had two tries dotted down and a third break for a guaranteed try was disallowed. That’s three tries and 21 points. You are incorrect in your assesment. And just before Steenkamps try an Aussie took Brussow out off the ball. Yellow card. Many arms round throats too, yellow card. Repeatedly handling the ball in the ruck, yellow card. that match was reffed into Aussie hands. Simple as that. Wales never looked like really winning it. I wasn’t surprised to see those missed kicks. They simply were an overhyped side that never had enough to break France down from start to finish.
15 Oct 2011, 14:52 pm
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-48: No poor excuses, valid reasons for being upset with AOTHER results taken from us. Here’s ANOTHER example. And surprise, surprise, it’s against the rats from mud (now rubbly) island. No doubt you have a mountain of EXCUSES to defend it rat boy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdr-W775hk4&list=PLD2EAF9004A1B70A9&index=18
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