WP recruit Shadow
24 Oct 2011
WP have signed Bulls wing Gerhard van den Heever on a two-year contract.
Province and the Bulls officially confirmed the deal on Monday. The 22-year-old’s contract with the Pretoria union ends on 31st October, and he will make the move down to Cape Town in November.
‘We believe Van den Heever to be a quality player with the right attributes to fit into our set-up and vision for the immediate future,’ said WP senior professional coach Rassie Erasmus.
‘Despite his young age he brings solid experience at Super Rugby level. We have a settled base of senior players and a number of emerging young stars and we believe he has the potential to make a valuable contribution at a number of levels.’
Van den Heever made his senior debut in 2009, and played 41 provincial matches (20 tries) and 31 Super Rugby games (12 tries). The deal comes after the Bulls’ signings of WP wing JJ Engelbrecht, centre Johann Sadie and flyhalf Lionel Cronje.
322 Comments
24 Oct 2011, 10:00 am
Hahahahahaha this is classic.
Could just as well have paid for JJ IMO.
24 Oct 2011, 10:02 am
hehehe @Tacitus, may just get a heart attack from this one
24 Oct 2011, 10:02 am
Well for all the poaching we have had from the Bulls nice to get one back.
Not much difference between Van Den Heever and Engelbrecht .Would add nice size to the Back 3 with Aplon and Habana likely to be the starters. Faster than Danie Poolman. Good signing considering the players we lost.
24 Oct 2011, 10:04 am
Shadowwwwwwwwwww!
24 Oct 2011, 10:04 am
His future lies at 15. Must develop his kicking game,then can use his straightline speed from the back.
24 Oct 2011, 10:06 am
oh ffs Rassie!!!!
WTF man….
Not sure I can handle this dofheid anynore…..
24 Oct 2011, 10:10 am
How do these guys lose quality players and buy players the Blue Bulls dont even want anymore??? These are the guys (Al Coetzee/Rassie) who are the apparent favourites to get the bok job…After WP once again failed to get a currie cup title… It was quite amusing seeing Alistair so desperate with his walkie talkie barking orders while they were outplayed in all facets of the game. He knew he needs a currie cup to strengthen his bid for the bok job…He will probably still remain the favourite, thanks to SARU and their ‘rational’ decision making and politics.
24 Oct 2011, 10:10 am
bwahahahahahaahahahahaahahaha don’t know if i should laugh harder at how dof this is a move by WP or how sshit it must be for Tacitus
i can’t wait to here Tac thrash Hurdles now, we’re going to see his 100m times decline soon enough hahahahaahahaaha yoh
24 Oct 2011, 10:11 am
Tac will come and explain why Shadow will not be the fastest on a rugby field anymore and that the title now goes to JJ (well only next year).
24 Oct 2011, 10:12 am
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-5: do you think he possesses the necessary skills set?
24 Oct 2011, 10:12 am
This is p i s s funny. Tac is about to have major heart failure.
I personally think we are wasting our money, which would have been better spent on a prop or two. He is a very average player. Hurdles….
24 Oct 2011, 10:13 am
Now, all of a sudden, he will be regarded as a future bok on this site. He does have great talent, but motivation is his biggest problem.
24 Oct 2011, 10:14 am
@Horings(Horings)-12:
Never ever will he be considered as a Bok mate. He is lazy and his defense is suspect.
24 Oct 2011, 10:14 am
@HHS(Hop Hop Spinnekop)-9: i don’t remember ever seeing jj engelbrecht’s 40m sprint times, am sure Tac is on to his Tuks High Performance Centre connects to get the info now!
24 Oct 2011, 10:20 am
Uhm ok……….
24 Oct 2011, 10:20 am
Let’s do the comparison. WP lost hougaard, sadie, engelbrecht, cronje, visser and de klerk while the Bulls lost Fondse, Lobberts and vd Heever.
24 Oct 2011, 10:21 am
Lobberts is hond k@k! Burger had to do his job – thats my Burger was so quite! eish these quotas! hope wakefield is happy!
24 Oct 2011, 10:21 am
Why not just keep JJ? Ha a WP what are you guys doing over there.
24 Oct 2011, 10:22 am
Still having a chuckle at this one…………
he he he he
24 Oct 2011, 10:26 am
buy props!!!!! FFS!!!
24 Oct 2011, 10:29 am
@HHS(Hop Hop Spinnekop)-9: Its not Tac with the problem all the Strompie support will now have to explain how Shaddow will like Habana find his true form in WP
24 Oct 2011, 10:30 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-19: Quite Bizarre signing considering the players we decided to let go. Will start him ahead of Poolman though.
24 Oct 2011, 10:30 am
@Horings(Horings)-16: Keep a watching, for Arno Botha
24 Oct 2011, 10:31 am
rassie and AC
2 thirds of the 3 stooges club imo…..
24 Oct 2011, 10:31 am
@grant10_is_a_maaifoedie(suffer_guy)-20: The mighty WP T5 ???
24 Oct 2011, 10:33 am
Can’t see him making the starting line up, some decent wings coming through from u21 level as well.
Money poorly spent, we lose CJ and buy a wing, Rassie catch a wake up, for 10 years now we all know where our problems lie, yet you still continue to get it wrong !!
24 Oct 2011, 10:34 am
Tac is going puh-lutz. Before digging up some dirt on Hurdles. Before posting JJ’s speedwalk time splits.
But if Rassie buys Spies, he may not survive.
24 Oct 2011, 10:36 am
Said it for a couple of weeks now. Arno Botha and Francois Venter are the Bulls’ next stars.
24 Oct 2011, 10:36 am
what is wp’s obsession with backline players when they aren’t winning trophy’s because there tight 5 is s h i t.
24 Oct 2011, 10:36 am
@grant10_is_a_maaifoedie(suffer_guy)-17: Bugger was very quiet after Hollenbach ran over him, even quieter after he passed the ball straight into the stands………………
24 Oct 2011, 10:37 am
@Sasuke(Sasuke)-22: Agreed. Poolman hasn’t developed like JJ did this year. Could never understand why he was picked ahead of JJ in the Super comp this year.
I’d have Shadow over Danie Poolman any day.
24 Oct 2011, 10:37 am
@grant10(grant10)-24: And you all still say = Bugger Bok Captain with AC the coach
24 Oct 2011, 10:38 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-14: and he is paging through the Heat and Huisgenoot for some dirt on Van Der Heever.
24 Oct 2011, 10:39 am
Personally, I think WP got the better deal. I’d rather have vd Heever than Engelbrecht.
Engelbrecth is solid and strong, but vd Heever is lightyears faster.
Can’t believe the Bulls let this one go.
Gonna take me a while to get over it.
24 Oct 2011, 10:40 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-31: If you can get Shaddow to play with intertest he will be good , if he’s not interested like he is 80% of the time ,,,,,,,,,,,well you bought a shaddow.
Luckely the WP coaches has ability to bring the best out of these players , good case study would be Habana
24 Oct 2011, 10:41 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-31:
Can’t agree, Poolman far better defensively , maybe not as quick but also not a slouch and is solid under the high ball, As said earlier can’t for the life of me see Shadow making te starting 15 !!
Therefore a waste of money !!
24 Oct 2011, 10:41 am
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-34: OK times up , now you are over it.
24 Oct 2011, 10:45 am
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-34:
no man.
whatever speed this guy had seems to have disappeared like a f art in a gale.
he is plan ordinary and would not have made the run on 15.
his future lies at full back which is probably why the brokebacks bought him.
Face it some guys kick on and and some don’t.
No more mister rainy face ok?
Chin up.
24 Oct 2011, 10:45 am
@capebull(capebull)-35:
Good case study for bringing out the best of players would be Sadie , J.J Engelbrecht , Siya Kolisi and so forth you sour arsehole.
What were you idiots preaching all the years ? “Umm uh ons don’t have to baai players cause I are develop them up heer in our structures.
Idiot
24 Oct 2011, 10:46 am
@>^..^< katman(katman)-27: if rassie buys spies I am applying for honorary Lions supporters rights my man!!!
24 Oct 2011, 10:47 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-31: ja agreed. The writing was probably on the wall back then that JJ wanted to leave for the Bulls. Maybe thats why AC persisted with Poolman.
24 Oct 2011, 10:47 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-10:
He looked promising there early in S15 this year. Especially vs Sharks at KingsPark,he played 15 that day.Played very well,ran very good lines. He is also a tall,big bloke.It will take him time to fully develop but on the wing while he has the speed I dont see him there and with likes of Mbovane coming through it will get tougher at 11/15. WP are short of 15′s(outside Aplon),Jantjes on his last legs-must go get himself some Euro’s,has had a solid career so should get a buyer there and can play up and under in those condition and has decent boot.
24 Oct 2011, 10:48 am
@grant10(grant10)-40:
The Bulls are trying to give him away but noone wants him. They are stuck with oke I guess.
24 Oct 2011, 10:48 am
@justrugby(justrugby)-36: You recon? Thing with Poolman is that, in spite of his junior promise, I’ve been dissapointed with his Super and CC form this year.
Shadow has similarly dissapointed in certain areas, BUT with ball in hand I’d back VD heever before Danie.
24 Oct 2011, 10:49 am
@capebull(capebull)-32: not a fark!
You obviously dont read my posts!!
24 Oct 2011, 10:51 am
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-34: I will say this about you, you have been honest this year in saying that V/D Heever is struggling for form and balance and that he doesn’t deserve the starting berth at the moment.
So you can’t be that dissapointed surely?
You guys are developing a good young squad now, Shadow moving won’t really dent that IMO.
24 Oct 2011, 10:51 am
@Bill Reyts(Gumboots)-43: best he stays there……or maybe Saracens with Plod…..
bloody fat boys club can get together and talk about how they s crewed up our wc
24 Oct 2011, 10:51 am
wp dont have jerseys to fit props thats why they dnt buy any hahaha, u okes have midgets for props, this is a good buy for wp though, agreed that he should move to fullback, but then aplon sits on the wing? anyways he will b pissed knowing he has to play next to the super reliable habana again hahahaha, WP JOU SILLY DING
24 Oct 2011, 10:51 am
@Gunther(gunther)-38:
hehehehe nice one.
i see Watermeyer is also going to Ospreys or something, i expect Dippenaar to announce that he’s signed for Griquas too as Heineken purges the deadwood in preparation for the NEW and IMPROVED EXPANSIVE bulle
24 Oct 2011, 10:52 am
While Province and Bulls are out swoppin’ and buyin’
Our boys are still playin’ – not sittin’ and cryin’
We cruised past the semis without even tryin’
It’s still not too late to become a proud Lion
24 Oct 2011, 10:53 am
Maybe we can sign one of the Lions props seeing that they signed CJ or Maybe Wiehan Herbst from Sharks. He is going to be behind Jannie and Eugene so he might want gametime. Thing is will WP be able to provide him with gametime seeing that we have Blaauw, Kritzinger, Brok, Malherbe, Kitshoff. Malherbe scrummed well when he came on. WP’s props just need time to mature they are all really young in terms of when props reach their peaks. Jannie du Plessis is in his prime now. I am expecting big things from him for the Boks and Sharks.
I mean the oldest WP prop is Brok at 27?? (Not sure i stand to be corrected) He is still 2 years off reaching his prime. We just need to be patient.
24 Oct 2011, 10:53 am
@>^..^< katman(katman)-50:
Yeah well done mate. I will be flying the red and white on Saturday.
Lions honourary member for the day…
24 Oct 2011, 10:54 am
the more I think about this the more I want to puke on my Stormers jersey….
Give away
FLO
JJ
SADIE
L CRONJE
WHITEHEAD
CJ
Buy farken shadow???
Ag just WTF is going on man?
24 Oct 2011, 10:55 am
@Bill Reyts(Gumboots)-52: You might find yourself sticking around.
24 Oct 2011, 10:56 am
@Sasuke(Sasuke)-51: i been patient for farken 20 years!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How much farken longer???????
24 Oct 2011, 10:56 am
@>^..^< katman(katman)-54:
Hehehe. Well I have forgotton what winning silverware is like mate.
Will get two tickets to the final and will be there.
24 Oct 2011, 10:57 am
skaduwee?…who gave him the nickname and why?..
24 Oct 2011, 10:57 am
I do not understand the reasoning behind this move. There is something seriously wrong with WP’s talent scouting. I see dark days for WP/Stormers coming up. Their tight 5 is not up to standard and have no scrumhalf and flyhalf! Then they buy a wing…eish…If I were supporting Province I would rather watch the Bold and The Beautiful in the S15 next year
24 Oct 2011, 10:58 am
OK, I’m commencing the process of psychological seperation now.
Erasing all of vd Heever’s good points, emphasizing his weak qualities.
By next season he will rank next to Habana on my Dislike-o-meter.
24 Oct 2011, 10:58 am
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-57: You back my man? So how was the humble pie?
24 Oct 2011, 10:59 am
bloody Minnie feasted like a hyena on a carcass Sat…
I knew when I saw Schalk at openside we were in our moer….farken knew it….
That is what AC and Rassie will bring to the bok job….a farken huge dose of conservative cluelessness….
24 Oct 2011, 10:59 am
@grant10(grant10)-53:
Where has whitehead gone to?
24 Oct 2011, 10:59 am
Hmmm the Lions supporters have a lot to say hey! I suppose they have decades of experience, so we should take note.
24 Oct 2011, 11:00 am
@seabiscuit(seabiscuit)-62:
Sharks I think!
24 Oct 2011, 11:00 am
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-59: That’s the spirit.
24 Oct 2011, 11:00 am
@Loyal Lion(Loyal Lion)-58: I prefer Binnelanders…….
24 Oct 2011, 11:00 am
@seabiscuit(seabiscuit)-62: sharks
24 Oct 2011, 11:01 am
@Loyal Lion(Loyal Lion)-58:
That’s kinda funny coming from a Lions fan.
How long have you guys been in the bottom 3 of the Super rugby log now ??
24 Oct 2011, 11:01 am
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-59: You’re so predictable. You probably did the same with Jurie Els.
24 Oct 2011, 11:02 am
WP have the same prob as da sharks wen it comes to buying players, wp need props and by wing etc, sharks need centers and locks but buy props and wings too, no farking sense
24 Oct 2011, 11:02 am
@wp_boytjie(wp_boytjie)-68: Shhhhh!
It’s much easier to point out someone else’s failings than to admit your own….
24 Oct 2011, 11:02 am
@Loyal Lion(Loyal Lion)-58: having said that I always did have a thing for Brooke!
24 Oct 2011, 11:03 am
@grant10(grant10)-67:
flip u just made my day cant believe ive missed that!!!!!!!
finally a center who doesnt claim pension from the goverment!!!!! hahahaha
24 Oct 2011, 11:03 am
@>^..^< katman(katman)-69: Did we sign him too?
say it ain’t so,,,,
24 Oct 2011, 11:05 am
@grant10(grant10)-72: She was (is still maybe, haven’t seen it in years) a hottie for sure!
24 Oct 2011, 11:06 am
@Bill Reyts(Gumboots)-63: Excactly, watched all 10 000 episodes. Normally watched it between 15:00 and 20:00 on Saturdays!!
24 Oct 2011, 11:06 am
@>^..^< katman(katman)-69:
Predictable is good. I like predictable.
Unpredictable people make me nervous.
24 Oct 2011, 11:06 am
@Loyal Lion(Loyal Lion)-60:
well done loyal lion and well done to your team.
they were deserved winners through and through.
must say jantjes is starting to grow on me in a big way but lets see how his s15 season goes.
just remember that you still have one to go, so feet firmly to the ground.
there’s nothing worse than being bridesmaids….just ask weepee…
24 Oct 2011, 11:07 am
@wp_boytjie(wp_boytjie)-68: That is why I know the difference between kak en modder…en die is nie modder nie!
24 Oct 2011, 11:08 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-75: she has aged well….
like ETs Pinotage.
24 Oct 2011, 11:08 am
hehehehehe……
24 Oct 2011, 11:08 am
Sharks 39 – Vodacom Cup Lions 9
24 Oct 2011, 11:09 am
@grant10(grant10)-45:
We read about 1 in 20.
And assume the rest say the same thing.
24 Oct 2011, 11:09 am
@seabiscuit(seabiscuit)-70: You have got to remember that there is a big shortage of good centres in this country! We also have a big shortge of good locks, that is why Mitchell converted flanks into locks…
24 Oct 2011, 11:10 am
@grant10(grant10)-72: Me too…
24 Oct 2011, 11:10 am
@Loyal Lion(Loyal Lion)-79:
How many Wooden spoons have you okes won by now ?
24 Oct 2011, 11:11 am
@Staal(Staal)-81:
Vir wie lag jy?
Vir die Bulle of vir WP?
24 Oct 2011, 11:11 am
gym time
work off my wp frustration…
if I bump into AC or Rassie I may be in a spot of bother…..
May be in jail for assault with a deadly dumb bell or something..
cheers all
and Saru….1 more time…Mitchell…Mitchell….Mitchell
thats the man
If Mitch cant sort out the fat boys
nobody can..
cheers
outta here
24 Oct 2011, 11:11 am
@grant10(grant10)-80: hahahaha indeed!
24 Oct 2011, 11:11 am
@grant10(grant10)-61: check what i said to justrugby on Friday
26.Transformation said:
21 Oct 2011, 09:40 am
@justrugby(justrugby)-25: wp are playing wiith no recognised ball pilferer/opensider. if the lions match you @ the collisions, derick minnie might have a “free lunch” at the breakdown.
24 Oct 2011, 11:12 am
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-59:
good man.
bury the dead.
24 Oct 2011, 11:12 am
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-78: Yes, will take your advice serious…it is just difficult after soooooo many years!!
24 Oct 2011, 11:13 am
@Gunther(gunther)-83: lol
24 Oct 2011, 11:14 am
@wp_boytjie(wp_boytjie)-86: Don’t know, but we can go wholesale!!
24 Oct 2011, 11:15 am
@Loyal Lion(Loyal Lion)-84:
tru, but that being said plum needs tommake a plan still period, n with our lock proplem it looks like deysel might fill that void, still we need more centers anyways as a loyal sharks fan i actually think the lions deserve it more so if we loose on the weekend ill still be happy, lions deserve to be champions
24 Oct 2011, 11:15 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-90: farken prophetic words…..you a guru my man.
24 Oct 2011, 11:16 am
@Gunther(gunther)-91: Coglan’s law……
24 Oct 2011, 11:16 am
well done to the Lions on Sat – they owned WP. {I am a WP supporter}.
just shows what a decent NZ coach can do with a bunch of no name brands in SA.
the Boks are f*cked if AC gets the Bok job. Admittedly he’d be better than PDV but still waaaaaay off international standard.
C’mon management time to rope Eddie Jones in as Bok coach. {a bonus is that Eddie is not Caucasian – it might keep Transie and others quiet for a while }
my list of best candidates for Bok coach (in order of preference):
1. Eddie Jones & Plum as forwards coach
2: Mitchell & Carlos
3: Warren Gatland
4: Heineke
5: me
24 Oct 2011, 11:16 am
@grant10(grant10)-61: schalk has been good this season work-rate wise and even better @ the world cup playing blindside but for the life of me i do NOT understand why he is ALWAYS at first receiver!!!!!!! it’s not like he is fleet of foot like say, nick koster or is a monster at the contact points – as he turns his back every time he goes into contact thus nullifying any opportunity to maybe attact the tacklers weak shoulder!
his skip pass to de jongh was excellent though.
24 Oct 2011, 11:17 am
Faarkit , did not see this coming. Suppose between him and JJ I would then go for him , am a big fan of JJ also but as someone pointed out for the 100th time to me this weekend , the man lacks outright pace. Ag well , we will see who is gonna show up who next year. Tact must be happy lol !
24 Oct 2011, 11:17 am
@SteveWarren(SteveWarren)-29:
@capebull(capebull)-25:
thats not exactly true.
its really 1, 3 and 5 (he has good day and bad days) thats weak imo.
wp’s 4 and 2 is good i think.
7 and 8 is good but 6 is kak.
i mean there first choice players in those positions.
24 Oct 2011, 11:18 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-97:
24 Oct 2011, 11:19 am
WP should have put in a cheeky offer for Zane too. Like Jantjes and a minibus and free Nandos for a year. Then they’d have their dream of an all Bulls back three.
24 Oct 2011, 11:24 am
@brains_trust(brains_trust)-98: you’re talking KAK! eddie jones is DoR at Suntory, he wasn’t available to help jake do a hospital job of coaching the Boks now in NZ, what would make him available to coach the Boks going forward?
plus Eddie is a rent-a-quote doos like Jake, he must stay the fcck away from the Bokke.
24 Oct 2011, 11:27 am
This is a good signing… they could have gone for the old bag Zane but that would have been a stupid idea…
Van Den Heever was talked up lots by Bulls fans and as soon as he signs for WP the comments on here are negative…
He is better equppied than engelbrecht, who brought pace and was very tall but could only play right wing
Van Den Heever can play both wings and is also the long term fullback once Conrad Jantjes has finished after this season or the next
Stormers backline should look like this in the Super 15
15 Gio Aplon
14 Gerrard Van Den Heever
13 Jaque Fourie
12 Juan De Jongh
11 Bryan Habana
10 Peter Grant
9 now all we need to do is sign Francois Hougaard
Hougaard & Van Den Heever for Cronje, Sadie & Engelbrecht… il take that.
24 Oct 2011, 11:27 am
@>^..^< katman(katman)-103: I like to think of Brian more as an ex-Lion than an ex-Bull.
It makes his loss of form more explainable to me…
24 Oct 2011, 11:28 am
The day he started that “goose step” thing instead of going “hell for leather” … that day he sealed his lot.
But still a good player imo… and he is only 22. Good buy and i know he wasn’t happy with not playing at the Bulls. I know there was big push to play him 15 but nada… pity.
What’s the possiblility of WP buying Jinka … plueeeeeeeeeeeeeeze
O ja Keo – why is Butch still “ogling” me here like a Moray on this page – surely the man is history now?
24 Oct 2011, 11:29 am
True, of the potential Bok coaches:
Venter, Jake and Eddie are poephols,
Mitch and Mallet are bad man-managers,
Coetzee is incompetent.
Doesn’t paint a pretty picture.
24 Oct 2011, 11:30 am
@>^..^< katman(katman)-103:
zane doesn’t have the same kind of pizzaz that jantjes has imo.
he doesn’t look nearly as good running dead into a wall of defenders and contact as conrad does.
24 Oct 2011, 11:30 am
My quick take on the game.
Lack effective coaching strategy cost WP the game
Not dominating the contact area cost WP the game
Lack of a decent 10 cost WP the game
Solid defense won the Lions the game
Good openside flank play won the Lions the game
WP, with their current coaching setup and selection will not win trophies. Coetzee lacks the game smarts to be effective as a head coach.
WP Rugby have been dishonest in and unfair in their dealings and Karma has gotten it’s retribution.
If ever there was a quoter coach, Allister Coetzee is it.
24 Oct 2011, 11:31 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-99:
Schalk has improved his skillset tremendously especially offloading and passing. But he should never stand at first receiver,2nd rather. And more imprtantly never in 1st or 2nd phase-best defenders at channel 1/2 or when momentum is static. When its looser at proceeding phases with momentum he is very effective.
Anything else,step away and support.
24 Oct 2011, 11:33 am
Schalla is a great defender…. period.
24 Oct 2011, 11:36 am
I really hope Western Province is looking into strengthening their front row. PLEASE Rassie….go and have a chat with WP Nel and Coenie Oosthuizen.
24 Oct 2011, 11:36 am
If WP signs Spies Grant10 will be so pissed off his rubix cube will fall off his desk and? complete itself.
24 Oct 2011, 11:36 am
@Staal(Staal)-107: ***** hasn’t made his quota of book sales yet.
Keo and co had very high hopes for the Butch James book.
He was supposed to be the first choice 10 at the WC and steer us to another Webb Ellis win, returning home to adulation and a regular spot on Villa Rosa as the creepy-eyed mysterious rival coffee shop owner “Chest” Rockwell..
Sadly even the best laid plans…
24 Oct 2011, 11:37 am
@HHS(Hop Hop Spinnekop)-114: on the flip side… Tac’s cat will bark and his water will turn into wine.
24 Oct 2011, 11:38 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-104:
thats right transie, i like the tuff talking.
its gloves off and take no prisoners time.
this is a time for heroes to rise.
can you feel the beat in the background?
its eye of the tiger by survivor…
BOOM! BANG! CRASH! BASH!
‘the smoke clears just enough to see a shape on the screen’
‘cue’ heyneke meyer…
24 Oct 2011, 11:40 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-115:
lookout for Butchie in the kilo bookstores in the new year.
santa cancelled his order apparently.
he’s gone with hansie’s guide to sportsbetting instead.
24 Oct 2011, 11:40 am
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-108: You have to concede that coaching the Boks would be one of the most challenging things. To create a collective ambition from various playing cultures and identities takes more than a good strategist. It takes someone to create belief that they all need to pull to a single direction for a common goal. Inevitably, this means they will be doing something unfamiliar, which means a slight alteration to their game.
It would be a huge help if the SA has an overriding theme and approach to their game. I’m not at all in favor of schoolboys kicking 60m penalties. He can choose NFL for that and make way more money. I’d prefer schoolboys playing and understanding the value of ball possession and have effective ball skills.
This means that at a later stage, when a national coach chooses players a common understanding of the approach exists and the task for a national coach is slightly easier.
24 Oct 2011, 11:42 am
@Gunther(gunther)-118: Showed wifey the picture….
She struggled to sleep after….
24 Oct 2011, 11:42 am
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-108:
How does not losing to a Saffa side in the S15, getting to a S14 final, A CC final , a CC semi final equate to incompetence ??
Actually he has been the most consistnet coach in the country for the last 2 years !!
Not saying he is my coach for the Bok job, my personal favourite would be Ewen Mackenzie, he took the Reds from nobodies to S15 champs playing a great brand, he has actually won something !!
24 Oct 2011, 11:43 am
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-117: hehehe i watched the movie THOR last night, are you sayinh Heineken is the hammer-wielding super-hero who has a proclivity to save mankind?
i hope heyneke speaks better afrikaans than he speaks english though, his voice is annoying.
24 Oct 2011, 11:43 am
@Storm_Voort(Storm_Voort)-113:
Oosthuiyzen signed a new 2 year contract a month ago with Cheetahs
Province would do well to start Frans Malherbe at 3-he scrummed well when he came on.pretty mobile too. Kitshoff also a good prospect but must play age group rugby SAu20 next yr.
If WP were smart theyd go after Eugene van Staden at Sharks.very underrated player.Also very competent on both sides 1/3
24 Oct 2011, 11:45 am
wellllll… if AC is our new coach we will at least get into the semi’s…
24 Oct 2011, 11:46 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-120: @Gunther(gunther)-118: It gets even worse. I hear keo has invested in turning Butch into an audiobook for motor vehicle enjoyment. Apparently he’s already recorded half the thing with Steven Segal narrating. If that doesn’t fly off the shelf, he’s going to be in a pickle.
24 Oct 2011, 11:47 am
@>^..^< katman(katman)-125:
24 Oct 2011, 11:48 am
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-111: The idea of Schalk playing as first receiver is so that you have a distributing player closer to the defensive line, and creates momentum on attack. What you would have noticed on Saturday was the depth which the WP backs played at. All this did was to create lateral attacks. This has been a WP/Stormers problem for a few years. It’s one of the reasons I think Fleckie is a useless numptie. the WP midlfield are essentially strike runner and setting a deep backline nulliefies that. If they had a 10 playing closer to the adv line, defenses would not be able to drift. Compare jantjies’ attack to Catrikillis. Notice how well Hollenbach and Doppies created momentum. It does present some risk, but the risk can be managed.
24 Oct 2011, 11:48 am
@Staal(Staal)-112:
I think he is an excellent defender, but more so on the point of WORKRATE on defence.His efficiency and technique in the tackle are still average-leads him to get bumped off/slip a few if ball carrier has solid technique.Burger makes up for it with his unmatched workrate…ex; missed 6 tackles but makes 35 type stats…
24 Oct 2011, 11:49 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-120:
It’s a disconcerting smirk.
Kind of like one of your blood relatives was giving him head whilst the picture was being taken.
24 Oct 2011, 11:50 am
Adam Freier has been reading the comments on Keo
Wallabies must drop obsession with peaking once every four years
Adam Freier
October 23, 2011
Comments 7
s
‘Four more years! Four more years! Four more years!” That’s what you all heard from Eden Park last Sunday, and even on Friday night. But what I heard was thousands of TVs across Australia turning off, for another four more years.
Now every nation bar the victor tonight will look to make wholesale changes, give youth a run, and try, test and pass new combinations. Heads will roll. Welcome to the matrix of rugby – the life in between the World Cups. My issue with losing at the tournament is the notion that we now have four more years to work towards winning the next one. That needs to change.
Internationally, there is no appetite to be the best-ranked nation. Who even takes notice of the IRB world rankings? They’re not celebrated or rejoiced in. This is a problem, and a reason the Wallabies will come home baked in bronze. I sense dissatisfaction with the Wallabies’ performance among the Australian rugby public and I witnessed it in the papers and first-hand as a punter. The reality is, we didn’t enter the World Cup as the best team in the world, so it should be no shock we don’t leave as the best.
Usain Bolt doesn’t run second and third and drop a few races before he takes gold at the Olympics. He wins consistently. He takes down rivals on any stage. The Olympics is just a magnified platform to show the world he is the best. That’s what makes him a champion.
The Australian rugby team needs to adopt that mentality. I think the result wouldn’t be a surprise. The World Cup is certainly the showpiece event, but we put way too much emphasis on it to produce a world champion side and don’t focus on the games in between. This creates a cycle of depleted teams on trial for a four-year formula.
We rest players, we groom players, we send squads with a ”development focus”. When did a Test not carry the weight of a nation? If we start to prevent nations from touring with second-string sides or issuing 14 doctor’s certificates at a SANZAR conference the week before the Tri Nations of a World Cup year, then we can seriously consider a ranking system that accurately portrays the world’s best.
We need to bring in an accurate ranking system. The current IRB model is flawed. As it stands, if France beat the All Blacks by 15 in the final they will be the No.1 nation. What? Didn’t they lose to Tonga and get pasted by New Zealand in the pool games? If Wales had beaten Australia by 15 points, they would have been second in the IRB rankings – which is fair – but they didn’t and now find themselves ranked eighth, behind Argentina. If this World Cup finishes with Wales the eighth-best team in the world and France first, then not only will I eat my words, I’ll eat my laptop!
In the meantime, if we look at the measures of who is world champion, it has nothing to do with rankings – it’s about beating the best. And in rugby that means beating the All Blacks.
The Wallabies must win at all costs, win everything. Don’t field a second-string side against Samoa, or Scotland. March into every battle with the view of being the best team on the planet. Then you hit a World Cup, like Usain, like the All Blacks, and prove you are the best.
So the question is being asked: is this golden crop of Wallabies the real deal or fool’s gold. Make no mistake, the Wallabies are a talented young group who can achieve great things. But a World Cup is the last thing they should be looking at. Try this: 10 wins in a row against the best in the world. That’s what New Zealand did to us, that’s what we should be aiming to do to them. Beating them twice in our past four clashes is a start, but that needs to change now – not in “four more years”.
Reduce the importance of the World Cup as a gauge of international status and you will see rugby grow.Bringing international fixtures back to what they truly are – Test matches. New Zealand will win this World Cup, not only because they are the best team in the tournament, but because they have been the best team over the past four years. That’s why they will win and that’s what makes them champions.
24 Oct 2011, 11:50 am
@pompies2(pompies2)-127:
“It’s one of the reasons I think Fleckie is a useless numptie.”
Pasop!!!!
To some bloggers here he is a legend!
24 Oct 2011, 11:51 am
FFS, they let Sadie and Engelbrecht go and they buy this palooka. Who the hell is in charge at WP? I think I am about to puke on a red disa.
24 Oct 2011, 11:51 am
@>^..^< katman(katman)-125:
“for motor vehicle enjoyment”
please god no.
I’d rather listen to Extraballs ipod.
24 Oct 2011, 11:52 am
@pompies2(pompies2)-127:
Yeah but due to first instinct AND deep lying backs Burger often takes contact and nullifies any momentum because from 1st receiver in early phases there are no mismatches for him to exploit and he loses his feet too quickly thus allowing opposition opensider as support tackler to pilfer/slow down ball.Burger is not destructive enough a carrier
24 Oct 2011, 11:55 am
@pompies2(pompies2)-127: no, he doesn’t “create momentum on attack”! creating momentum on attack is what keiran read was doing yesterday, ie gaining extra yardage at every single carry where the point of breakdown is metre or 2 from where contact with defender was made.
schalk turns his back 95% of the time before going into contact, he doesn’t have an effective leg drive technique. at least this was my original point of discussion with Mshini.
24 Oct 2011, 11:55 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-130:
GIVE THAT MAN A BELLS!!!!
24 Oct 2011, 11:55 am
@Gunther(gunther)-133: I believe George Benson has applied for a restraining order against Driebal’s iPod. Doesn’t want his music within 100 yards.
24 Oct 2011, 11:56 am
lololololololololololol am loling my a*se of, thought Grant is going to freak and Tactis is going to be devastated, then read the posts. This is really funny SHADOWWWWWWWWWWW is going to ring out at Newlands. lololol. Somebody said we must wait and see that you guys were getting some outstanding player lololol, the name Alberts was mentioned
24 Oct 2011, 11:57 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-130:
Yeah but Donovan Bailey still has a WR and Olympic 100m gold….Bet Frankie Fredericks would give up all those silvers & bronzes and ONE world champ gold for that.
Hehehe.ask Osafa Powell what it feels like to dominate everything then lose the Chris Gatlin & Bolt when it TRULY matters.
Cant use Bolt as point of departure.Never has the world seen anything like him Mr Freier
24 Oct 2011, 12:00 pm
@wp_boytjie(wp_boytjie)-39:
Twice Kolisi was forced off the field because of concussion, first Cilliers moered him in the first round match then this weekend Elton ran over him … leaving him to count galaxies.
24 Oct 2011, 12:00 pm
The final was an exceptional affair.
Perhaps the best final we’ve seen in a long time.
The world cup was probably the best in terms of rugby and letting the unique kiwi culture infect us all.
The only black spots in the tourney was the horrible display by Bryce Lawrence and the crude tactics employed by the Samoans against SA.
Personally, I think a Boks vs Kiwi semi would have produced an even more intense final.
24 Oct 2011, 12:01 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-135:
Schalk has added a new dimension to his play since the Super comp last year. He has started to distribute more effectively to the guys outside of him and his vision is admirable.
As far as his momentum and defense are concerned, I agree that he does not run hard enough at opponents and that his defensive technique is questionable, but on the whole he still keeps many opposition players very busy on both attack and defense. His workrate is awesome and his passion is commendable.
His greatness as a rugby player will be measured against how he addresses his shortcomings in the season ahead.
24 Oct 2011, 12:01 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-137:
indeed.
I belive Billy Ocean has asked him to get out of his dreams.
24 Oct 2011, 12:03 pm
@RL(RL)-140:
Hhayi easy easy mate.
Kolisi was never “run over” by anyone,he was tracking across on defense,Jantjes cut back in field and Kolisi’s head was in the incorrect position in collision.(ala: Schalk Burger,Tim Dlulane injuries).Luckily he didnt damage his neck as it was a bad angle for his head to be in.
24 Oct 2011, 12:04 pm
I don’t think SA has ever had such great players waiting for the next world cup.
With the likes of Bissy, Alberts, Bekker, Hougaard, de Jongh, F Steyn and Lambie, we probably have the best prospects for 2015.
I really don’t think AC can stuff it up too much. We should worry less about who gets appointed coach. Almost anytyhing will be considered an improvement…. unless Chester Williams or Hugh Reece-Edwards apply for the position
24 Oct 2011, 12:04 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-135: You have to seperate the times he passes the ball from those positions from the times he turns his back. When he passes, it creates momentum when runners are on his outside. Not having a 10 who can play on the advantage line means you have to find another way.
24 Oct 2011, 12:04 pm
@RL(RL)-140:
Yeah well done on Saturday.
Now back it up in Super Rugby and give someone else the wooden spoon for a change.
24 Oct 2011, 12:05 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-134: typical example is the australian try against us in the quarter-final, ball comes down from the lineout to fdp, swing straight to burger who takes 3 or 4 steps with heirich in tow, turns his body, crash into defender, lies down, no yardage gained, aussie contest, pocock comes on from the side as it is still only heinrich over burger, kicks the ball, bang we’re in kak, schalk created NO momentum in that move.
24 Oct 2011, 12:07 pm
@Couchcoach(GI POT)-142:
Schalk has improved skillset definitely. But its not about “not running hard enough”,he simply doesnt possess the skill/ability to maintain his feet in contact thus powering on a few more VALUABLE metres to give support time and momentum for proceeding attack. Its a skill-watch Alberts,Read,Kaino,Dusautoir in same positions when receiving ball.
Yes burger is awesome player nonetheless but he mustnt take the ball in that position.
24 Oct 2011, 12:09 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-148:
Yep
24 Oct 2011, 12:10 pm
@Treehugger(Treehugger)-138: i can imagine the devastation for some of the women who usually screamed every time Herkies touched the ball. remember Herkies immortalised himself to the Loftus faithful when he took on Luke on the sidelines and also dumped Lambie on the advertising sign boards.
heartbreak at Loftus, a lot of posters are going to be BURNT vanaand!
24 Oct 2011, 12:10 pm
@Couchcoach(GI POT)-142:
Agree. Schalk has been a evelation this year.
In the past, he wwas one dimensional and predictable, especvially with ball in hand. He used to ALWAYS break to the inside and they started waiting for him.
NOW, my goodness, he passes like a seasoned inside centre and varies his play beautifully. He also seems to have acquired the never-say-die arrogance of great captains like Gregan and Fitzpatrick.
I’d be happy with him leading us for the next 4 years.
24 Oct 2011, 12:13 pm
@148 how can you defend against a guy that comes from the side and kicks the ball from an offside position. It was a better example of bryce’s incompetence or daylight cheating.
24 Oct 2011, 12:13 pm
@Helen(Helen)-152:
Leave Schalk away from leadership and let him play his game.He has finally returned to his old workrate with new dimension of passing. It been almost 3yrs but Burger is finally back. Dont burden him with captaincy. Give it to Juan Smith in interim and groom a young buck who can COMMAND his place in starting xv
24 Oct 2011, 12:14 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-149:
Agreed. I feel Schalk should rather look at making offloads in the tackle instead of this continuous stupid carrying it up with his back faced to the opposition.
24 Oct 2011, 12:17 pm
Schalla – captain of the Boks?
Nada – he is a hothead. Imo.
(imo the single most reason why the stormers haven’t won anything in the last few years, he looses his cool and a they can’t afford that)
AC – Bok coach?
Nada – he is average. Imo.
His one-liner is: We will have to go back to the drawing board.
24 Oct 2011, 12:21 pm
I see a future Bok loose trio of Brussow, Kolisi and Alberts. What a blend of pace, guile and strength.
24 Oct 2011, 12:22 pm
@Horings(Horings)-153: chap, read properly. i’m not saying schalk did not “defend” or anyone for that matter. i am saying i don’t want to see him at first receiver on 1st/2nd phase ball as imo is unlikely to gain us yardage or momentum because he lacks the proper point of contact technique that the players mentioned by Mshini have. we were in our 22, under pressure from aus, no need to for phases, especially without adequate support. he didn’t look to BREAK the tackle, he went to crash and recycle!
24 Oct 2011, 12:22 pm
Captain of the boks.
Look no further than J Smit.
Massive contribution to Sa rugby. Brilliant captain – just look at his record. Also 2007 Wc winner…. Speaks well to the media. Apparently he can play prop as well.
Problem solved.
All’s well…
24 Oct 2011, 12:23 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-151: lol, I think WP must leave the shopping to us women, we excel at it, plus we know how to find a good bargain if they are around
24 Oct 2011, 12:24 pm
@wp_boytjie(wp_boytjie)-155: I do not want to ever see Burger playing first receiver again, sure he lobbed a lucky pass resulting in a try after the Lions ran out of defenders … but do you see Kaino or Smith or Alberts standing in the flyhalf channel? No never so why must bonehead steal Zorba’s sunshine.
24 Oct 2011, 12:26 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-158:
@Treehugger(Treehugger)-160:
24 Oct 2011, 12:27 pm
Skalk the biggest F-up in the WP/Stormers setup!
And why the hell didnt De Jongh started the match?
24 Oct 2011, 12:27 pm
@Treehugger(Treehugger)-160:
Howzit ‘young’ lady! The big buy is about to sign. He is from the Sharks…
24 Oct 2011, 12:28 pm
@RL(RL)-161:
Also hate seeing him in 1st receiver. He’s ball security is good , he does not often lose the ball in contact or on the ground , but if ur not going forwad whats the point of standing there…… You want your best playmakers , usually 10 or 12 to be that first receiver.
24 Oct 2011, 12:29 pm
@Treehugger(Treehugger)-160:
No stop gloating…it is not John Smit.
24 Oct 2011, 12:30 pm
@Bill Reyts(Gumboots)-164: Alberts is rumored to be in bed with Rassie, one less guppy for me to worry about.
24 Oct 2011, 12:30 pm
@158 you are using a stupid example as the boks did take the ball to the right region of the field to create the angle for steyn. He was not tackled back and he did protect the ball, but he obviously did not take into account that a players from his side of play will kick the ball back to the other side.
24 Oct 2011, 12:30 pm
@RL(RL)-167:
A prop mate…
24 Oct 2011, 12:32 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-157:
kolisi is still having nightmares about elton john jantjes.
snuffed him out like a candle in the wind..
haven’t seen someone drop like that since Bands told Ritchie the bus was full.
24 Oct 2011, 12:33 pm
@Couchcoach(GI POT)-142:
shortcoming number one on that list is his brain meltdowns wrt decisions on the field when calling for kicks at goal and/or field position…it seems he just never learns.
also how he engages the ref is really just old school in a 1970′s/80′s kinda way.
24 Oct 2011, 12:38 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-158: I think your example suits your argument, but can be interpreted in a few ways.
It was obviously a stupid call (cappies call or strategy) The idea for Schalk would not have been to break tackles, but simply create an angle for the clearing kick. The support runners would have known this and all they needed to do was to clean the ruck properly.
There are better examples to support your argument, but this may no be the best.
24 Oct 2011, 12:38 pm
@RL(RL)-162: somebody spending all your money,lol, good for her.
@Bill Reyts(Gumboots)-164: lots of big guys at the Sharks, dont spoil my day.
@Bill Reyts(Gumboots)-166: :murderous glare:
24 Oct 2011, 12:40 pm
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-171:
Point taken
24 Oct 2011, 12:41 pm
@Bill Reyts(Gumboots)-169: Very interesting, let’s hope it is the Beastly one.
@Gunther(gunther)-170: I don’t quite get the hype that everyone has for this Kolisi, he is just another Keegan Daniel, a forward with no special skills.
Is he a fetcher, no.
Is he a big ball carrier, no.
Is he a dominant 8th man, no.
What is he besides a softy who cries off when he is tackled hard.
He is a winger or centre at best, just like other show ponys, like Daniel, Kankowski and Spies who are all forward failures.
24 Oct 2011, 12:42 pm
@RL(RL)-161: I think you need to read the thread. It explains the viewpoint. For the Lions, it would not be necessary because he plays close to the advantage line. For WP, whose back are deep, you need to create front-foot ball somehow.
24 Oct 2011, 12:42 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-170: That was an unfortunate Kolision. But that youngster is class. Mark the words of the katman, peace be upon him.
24 Oct 2011, 12:43 pm
Mensig ma dis warm.
24 Oct 2011, 12:44 pm
@RL(RL)-175:
You forget this player is only 20 years old.
Could still be playing u21 Rugby.
And is currently developing into a fine player. FACT
24 Oct 2011, 12:49 pm
@pompies2(pompies2)-176: in that case why not have a fatty stand at first receiver, surely if you are looking for front foot ball then a 125kg rhino running at pace into defenders will get you over that gain line more than anyone else playing, except for Alberts who is a prop loose forward hybrid.
24 Oct 2011, 12:49 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-177:
@RL(RL)-175:
time will tell.
let’s see how his super 15 goes.
@Staal(Staal)-178:
take a goof in the dam.
24 Oct 2011, 12:52 pm
@RL(RL)-180: The idea for him is not to crash into people, but to act as sort of distributor. How difficult is this opinion to understand?
24 Oct 2011, 12:55 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-157: where is teh pace coming from?
24 Oct 2011, 12:55 pm
@pompies2(pompies2)-172: relax, no need to be defensive
. there are plenty of examples where schalk doesn’t gain momentum for whichever team he plays for, this one was just frash on my mind. at 1st receiver on 1st/2nd phase he is still very close the opposition’s poachers, which is where guys like minnie will have a “free lunch”
anyway i made my point.
24 Oct 2011, 12:57 pm
@RL(RL)-175:
I think you can add Koster to that list – a phenom at school level but has not stepped up and dominated in the senior ranks. (not even in the CCup).
Koster is not close to Bok quality.
24 Oct 2011, 12:57 pm
@pompies2(pompies2)-182:
act like some “sort of distributer” good words because his passing definitely looks like acting, when you compare his passing skills to Zorba.
24 Oct 2011, 12:57 pm
@brains_trust(brains_trust)-183: Kolisi. Runs like a centre.
24 Oct 2011, 12:59 pm
@brains_trust(brains_trust)-185: indeed, he could have been our Jamie Roberts.
24 Oct 2011, 12:59 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-184:
yo d00s who would your top 3 candidates for Bok coach be? or would you just re-instate PDV for another 4 years ?
24 Oct 2011, 13:00 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-181: watched “get him to the greek” yesterday.
“Jeffrey” lol
Furry walls mate. Furry walls lol
24 Oct 2011, 13:01 pm
@RL(RL)-186: Pointless trying to have a constructive debate with you when you can’t be objective. Will agree to disagree then.
24 Oct 2011, 13:02 pm
Alberts not going anywhere. Hasnt been any word around natal of such
And if he does itd be foolish…He is fulcrum of Sharks strategy, has become a Bok here,lifestyle similiar give or take for a rugby player.
At WP he has to contend with Schalk etc add the fact that they are likely to move him to lock in long run. Have Schalk,Vermeulen,Kolisi,Carr etc on their books already
Will only believe that when I see it.
24 Oct 2011, 13:03 pm
This Kolisi kid clearly has talent. And he is a hero to a lot of folks in the PE townships. Hope he makes it.
He will face some stiff competition though. Some tough young loose forwards coming through in Bulls ranks. CJ Stander and Arno Botha at the forefront.
24 Oct 2011, 13:03 pm
@wp_boytjie(wp_boytjie)-179: look, i consider myself one of siya’s biggest fans as i’ve been tracking his progress since he was at Grey(PE) BUT i understand what RL might be talking about. this HYPE is getting a little ridiculous.
hype like this is usually reserved for the likes of Nick Koster, who are dubbed “THE REAL DEAL” and are afforded 4-page spreads in the Argus.
siya is a prospect as you mentioned. juan smith didn’t jump out and become WORLD CLASS from the get…siya needs time to mature without much hype.
24 Oct 2011, 13:09 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-184: Not defensive Trans, I’m presenting my viewpoint. I somewhat concur on your take, it’s just that I have a different view. Schalk is not good in the contact area, but more often than not he plays as a flat first receiver to distribute to hi oncoming support runners. What this does is change the contact area all the time so that defenses can’t focus on the contact point. Essentially, your pillar defense is slightly less active and the channel 1 guys are scrambling because the attack point now moves to channel two. Because WP don’t have a 10 who plays on the gainline, if you employ the drift defense, you force them to be lateral in attack. It also eliminates their strike running midfield. If WP he WP backline can alter their attack to be flatter, they’ll keep defenses straighter and the use of decoy runners will create uncertainty in the defensive midfield and create space wide.
24 Oct 2011, 13:09 pm
@brains_trust(brains_trust)-189: who are you calling a doos mbhono wakho?
1. ewen mckenzie 2. wayne smith 3. naka drotske
24 Oct 2011, 13:09 pm
@pompies2(pompies2)-191: @pompies2(pompies2)-191: I just don’t rate Burger ay all, I think he reached his peak years ago and is just living off past glories.
I rate Smith and Alberts as the two best blindside flanks around with youngsters like Rhodes and Coetzee as better players than him.
24 Oct 2011, 13:11 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-194: Totally agreed. Best to under-promise and over-deliver than to be Koster.
24 Oct 2011, 13:11 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-196: can’t you read? bwhahahaha
24 Oct 2011, 13:12 pm
I must say Alberts’s initial impact has diminished considerably. He doesn’t appear to be consistently as physically dominant as he was a season or so ago.
24 Oct 2011, 13:13 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-193: Arno Botha is even ahead of bonehead Burger, in the talent stakes.
24 Oct 2011, 13:13 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-193: he is not a hero, just a kid doing well in a chosen vocation. you think Hurdles is a “hero” in the barren vrystaat dorpies he come from?
24 Oct 2011, 13:14 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-196:
naka?
the husbands of Bloemfontein would certainly be believed.
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-190:
he must have put that bit in.
that’s what we used to call it at school
24 Oct 2011, 13:14 pm
This is utterley devastating… Pantofel in a Province jumper??/
Tac buddy why dont you join me in on a run up to the top of the Sierra Calderona and we can both jump off together…
24 Oct 2011, 13:17 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-202:
My reference point is that one boots and all show held in PE before the All Black test where they talked to the representatives of the black clubs in PE. Those guys were liberally singing the praises of Kolisi and seem to have massive expectations of him.
I merely took their words at face value.
24 Oct 2011, 13:18 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-203: You’re a trail-”blazer” then
It has some very funny moments. No Oscar moments, but some “guffaw” scenes for sure.
24 Oct 2011, 13:18 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-203: I’ll take Naka ahead of AC anyday of the week, at least Naka’s teams know how to score tries.
24 Oct 2011, 13:19 pm
grant10,
in clifton….
do have a lawn….
to mow?
or a place….
to wash your car?
this weekend…
8)
24 Oct 2011, 13:20 pm
Well, it seems like Heyneke went for a massive cleanup of the junior talent at Loftus:
Watermeyer off to the UK, Brummer released, Dippenaar shipped off to the Seven’s circuit, now vd Heever gone as well.
Interesting times.
24 Oct 2011, 13:21 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-209:
Manitz Bosshoff also transferred to Griquas.
24 Oct 2011, 13:21 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-206:
no no.
I think everybody called it that.
It’s funny for sure.
@RL(RL)-207:
pomp vir vrystaat.
24 Oct 2011, 13:21 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-209:
Yeah a wise man that. He got rid of all the dead wood and is buying decent talent from the Cape. Bright is always bright mate.
24 Oct 2011, 13:24 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-211: Yeah we may even have referred to it as that here too. Mostly just a “J” but any derivative of that too.
My favourite term is a “Zol”
Very Northern Suburbs.
24 Oct 2011, 13:25 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-209: it makes business sense, with the team hardly expected to make the super play-offs for the next few years and with the Loftus unfaithful set to turn their backs on tickets HM had no choice but to cut the fat.
24 Oct 2011, 13:26 pm
@charo(charo)-208:
he is washing JR and then taking him to the vet.
then he will be abusing Barney on facebook.
all in all a very busy arvie.
24 Oct 2011, 13:29 pm
@RL(RL)-214:
Shame man! Don’t knock a man when he is already down. How would you feel if your idol moves to the Bulls. That won’t happen but just a thought.
24 Oct 2011, 13:32 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-210: I hear rumors that Bradley Moolman is coming back to Lions country? You got anything on that?
24 Oct 2011, 13:34 pm
@Mighty Horua(Mighty Horua)-163:
because the might ” I CANT STEP ANYMORE ” JDV must start hahaha, province loose all youngsters and keep donkeys like him
24 Oct 2011, 13:35 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-193: Hou daai mannetjies dop Tac…. hou hul dop. Monster loosies daai!
Daar is huigiglik n skitterende positiewe gevoel hier by die Bulle – al het ons niks gedoen die jaar nie. Dit gaan nog ten minste 2 jaar vat maar die “roadmap” is gedoen en almal weet waar hul staan.
Houe gaan ons vat… maar ons gaan ook uitdeel!
24 Oct 2011, 13:37 pm
@brains_trust(brains_trust)-185:
koster is just plain down useless seriously
24 Oct 2011, 13:39 pm
It’s interesting to see that Heyneke is dumping his young players for new ones, but the problem starts a lot earlier. First, our coaches, at all levels, must dump this idea of our “traditional strengths” and concentrate on developing and encouraging the skills to go with, what is after all purely a physical attribute. Sure, we make them big and fast, in SA, but we also tend to make them a bit thick as well.
Below is an article (edited) from the BBC about why Kiwi rugby is so dominant. It makes interesting reading.
Since the start of Test rugby, the All Blacks have a win percentage of almost 75%. No-one else gets close. Not South Africa at 62%, nor France at 55%. Certainly not England, Australia or Wales with 53%, 52% and 51% respectively.
How has one small nation dominated the sport for so long? What makes New Zealanders so good at rugby? And why, World Cup wins aside, is that supremacy actually growing? Since Graham Henry took charge of the national team in 2004, New Zealand’s win percentage has climbed to a staggering 85%.
STARTING EARLY
Rugby grabs Kiwi kids young. Once it has a hold, it’s not allowed to let go. Buck Anderson, former All Black, rugby teacher and coach, now heads the New Zealand Rugby Football Union’s heavily funded community programmes. “Everything we do is about four key skills: catch, pass, run and evade,” says Anderson.
A few years ago, Anderson found that 90% of primary school teachers in the country are female. Surveys showed that even those who enjoyed watching rugby were reluctant to teach it, partly for fear of kids getting hurt and partly because the rules are so complex.
The answer: Rippa Rugby, a non-contact, small-sided version of the game that can be played anywhere, by kids as young as three years old. Every single primary school in New Zealand has a grass playing field. After a five-year campaign, every primary school in the country also has a Rippa Rugby kit and instruction DVD.
“We’ve had year-on-year growth in the number of primary school kids playing rugby, and Rippa Rugby has been a really big driver in that,” says Anderson. “The landscape for the hearts and souls of kids today is very competitive. There’s an incredible range of opportunities out there for them. We had to ask ourselves how we could make rugby as easy to play and as fun as possible.”
DEVELOPING FAST
Once bitten by the bug, kids are fed through a carefully designed series of programmes, starting at the age of five with the ingeniously named Small Blacks. “We try to line up the skills required with the ability of the kids to perform those skills,” says Anderson.
Between the ages of five and seven, there are no set pieces, no tackling and no kicking. Aged eight onwards, defence skills are introduced – “We teach them to watch the hips, not the ball or the feet; where the hips go, the player follows” – with non-pushing scrums, catching above the head to develop line-out skills and limited post-tackle drills. The pitch is still small while the ball is no bigger than a size three.
Only from 11 do kids take part in 15-a-side games – and even then it is all about ball in hand. Penalties result in possession being handed over, rather than kicks at goal.
PUSHING ON HARD
Rugby is taught in both state and private schools. The quality of coaching there, as my colleague Ben Dirs found out when he visited Rotorua Boys’ High a few weeks ago, is both impressive and prioritised. But the education system is only one part of the rugby development programme.
Kel Victor is president of the prestigious High School Old Boys club in Christchurch, which has produced 30 All Blacks in its 110-year history, including Justin Marshall, Andrew Mehrtens, Aaron Mauger and Dan Carter.
“We have kids here from three years old,” he says. “They play Canter rugby, which is like touch rugby – no tackling allowed, teams of no more than 10, a point for a try. There is a much bigger emphasis on running the ball rather than kicking it. That structure is bred into them – get the wingers involved, get the full-backs running into the backline.
“The standard in the club game is very high. There are 12 teams in the metropolitan region and another union in the country region. Six of them are very strong, with not much difference between them. It’s very competitive and helps develop good players.”
THE CULTURE
The grip that rugby has on the national psyche has waned at times over the years, never more so than when an All Blacks team hosted an apartheid-era Springboks touring team in 1981. The success of the national football team, the All Whites, at the last World Cup also loosened rugby’s grip – but only slightly and only briefly.
“Traditionally, there has been a fundamental insecurity in New Zealand national identity,” says Professor Bruce. “We are constantly searching for who we are and where we are in the world. Sport is one of very few places where New Zealand has excelled on the world stage and so our internationally successful athletes always get a high level of publicity.”
Victor, part of the Old Boys’ club for over 50 years, agrees. “Rugby has a huge niche in a small nation here,” he says. “It dominates all other sports. Everybody knows somebody who knows somebody who knows an All Black. The best thing you can be is a rugby success. If you’re a good player, careers open up in other fields.”
Turn on the television on a Saturday morning and there, on the free-to-air TV2, is a programme called Small Blacks TV. It speaks volumes for the continued place of the All Blacks in the affection of the nations.
Current wing Richard Kahui demonstrates healthy eating in an item called Cooking With Kaks, Conrad Smith reads the latest news with the tagline ‘Stay onside, New Zealand.’ Piri Weepu presents Maori lessons in A Word With Piri, while Dan Carter teaches tricks in DC Skills. The final segment? A game of ‘Who’s Brainier – All Black or Small Black?’
THE BIG STUFF
So much for the finer detail. When you look up from the research and history books at the physical environment around you, it’s hard to miss what’s staring you in the face.
“Our climate and landscape is so conducive to kids running around,” says Anderson. “Most houses have a back yard where a kid can fling a ball around and every town or village has open green fields. That’s a major advantage for us.”
Stroll around any New Zealand town and you soon notice something very striking to British eyes. Where kids back home will be kicking a football around, or a tennis ball, or even a squashed-up drinks can, Kiwi children will have a rugby ball in their hands.
“That constant playing with the ball as a child is often how you learn the key skills in the game,” says Anderson. “Kids walking home from school will be trying new passes or skills to impress their mates. You go to the park or the beach in New Zealand, and the first game everyone will play is touch rugby.
“New Zealand is also blessed with a wonderful genetic mix for rugby. In addition to the European influence, you can add in the size and attitude of the Maori and now the speed and power of the Polynesian islanders.”
THE FUTURE
All is not entirely rosy in the Kiwi garden, however. There is, for example, a high drop-off rate once players get to their late teens. “We can’t take anything for granted,” admits Anderson. “We’re a country of just four million people and we need to attract the top sporting talent – give them the skills and keep them in the game.”
Other nations have detailed kids’ development structures. Some have a flourishing professional club structure. Others have big-name players who are huge stars, recognised wherever they go. But only one country has everything that those rivals have – and that 75% win ratio on top.
24 Oct 2011, 13:50 pm
@David(David)-221:
gosh, very instructive.
24 Oct 2011, 13:53 pm
@seabiscuit(seabiscuit)-220: Open you farken eyes, Koster is a future bok…
24 Oct 2011, 14:04 pm
@Staal(Staal)-219: Jy klink nou soos Loffie Eloff.
24 Oct 2011, 14:04 pm
Sayonara Mossie.
24 Oct 2011, 14:08 pm
@David(David)-221: Very interesting.
24 Oct 2011, 14:09 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-225: Que?
24 Oct 2011, 14:10 pm
@staal. Kan nie wag vir o21 en o19 finaal nie. Die bulle het vir die 1ste keer in jare uitstaande talent in die ouderdomsgroepe. Ek het net gehoop goosen teken ook, maar hy het gedink hy gaan nie speelkans kry nie. Fouche en Steyn is darem nie sleg nie.
24 Oct 2011, 14:11 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-225: ??
24 Oct 2011, 14:13 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-227:
Gone to Japan for their season. Panasonic Wild Knights.
Only for 1 season as I understand it. Will be back some time during next years S15, depending if his side make the finals or not.
24 Oct 2011, 14:16 pm
This kid needs to be developed into a fullback. It is a position I hoped WP would start using Lionel in because Jantjes is (has been) on his last leg for too long now but alas, it will have to be Shadow.
Just work on his kicking a bit and he could make number 15 his own.
24 Oct 2011, 14:16 pm
@John Galt(John Galt)-230: That’s not ideal.
So he comes back overcooked and most likely injured. He can’t play a full 18 months with no break. Not him especially.
This doesn’t bode well personally.
We have JDJ but after him we have very little.
24 Oct 2011, 14:20 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-224: Ek waarborg jou ek hettie daai man se lyf nie!
24 Oct 2011, 14:21 pm
Wonder if Grant10 knows Jaque Fourie is moving to Japan in November, I await his reaction in anticipation
24 Oct 2011, 14:22 pm
Oh dam and here i thought i was dishing out breaking news !!!!!!!!
24 Oct 2011, 14:23 pm
So the Province backs are escaping like truckloads of Mexican border hoppers. Must be the calming influence of our future Bok coach.
24 Oct 2011, 14:24 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-232:
keeeeeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrching.
24 Oct 2011, 14:24 pm
@Treehugger(Treehugger)-235: Sorry hugsy, but we are (only just) ahead of you
24 Oct 2011, 14:27 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-237: Yip, for sure, but it may shorten his career by a season, or even more if he gets injured.
It’s one thing being peter Grant and not playing CC or any Bok duties but in Jaque’s case he’s had a very busy year.
Oy Vey!
24 Oct 2011, 14:28 pm
Panasonic Wild Nights?
No curfew there then.
24 Oct 2011, 14:33 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-239:
If I were a Stormers supporter I’d be happier that he was going to Japan for a short term money grab than to the UK or France for a longer period.
Straight after a WC and at his age, he has to start thinking about the benjamins and this is probably the best way to go about it.
I dont reckon Japan will be too taxing on the body. To me, the only risk is that he comes back as half the player, ala P Grant and that other clown from the Bulls, forget his name.
24 Oct 2011, 14:34 pm
Good luck Shadow. You will be missed at Loftus. With the stiff competition for places you will probably get more game time at a smaller union. Lets hope your career developes and that they don’t ruine it like they did with Habana and Dillon des Fountaine.
24 Oct 2011, 14:37 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-240: All the Karaoke you want!
24 Oct 2011, 14:37 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-239:
he is only 28.
having his cake and eating it.
24 Oct 2011, 14:39 pm
@John Galt(John Galt)-241: Isn’t he contracted until the end of next year? We could have put our foot down and said no. I would have.
This “let them go if the want to” attitude of WP isn’t very professional if you ask me. We let Joe Petersen go early “because he asked nicely”, the Peter Grant story as well, now Jaques.
Ai Khona.
That’s not the way it works.
24 Oct 2011, 14:40 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-244: Flied Lice.
24 Oct 2011, 14:41 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-238: I got it from ruggaworld, they always have the latest new, didnt know which story to go with first, the froggies also b*tching about the reffing or this one
………….
24 Oct 2011, 14:42 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-245:
Rassie is responsible for contracting/ buying and selling of players etc what the fark is he doing ???
24 Oct 2011, 14:44 pm
I don’t think that Mossie is thinking with his head, WTF Japan …. does he not read the news, that place is a nuclear wasteland! Radiation wherever you go.
Now Mossie, if you comeback with a blue glowing tongue you will know why.
24 Oct 2011, 14:44 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-246: Try watch 50/50 tonight.
24 Oct 2011, 14:45 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-245:
No, his contract expires this year with WP.
24 Oct 2011, 14:45 pm
@tokyopartyboy(tokyopartyboy)-243:
hey bud if that’s your idea of a wild night out there in the northern suburbs…
I’m not judging.
As long as nobody gets hurt.
24 Oct 2011, 14:46 pm
@justrugby(justrugby)-248: Agreed! Not in today’s professional age.
No other province allows it. Just WP. And the players do it because they are being allowed to.
24 Oct 2011, 14:47 pm
@justrugby(justrugby)-248: lol I take it you not happy. If you were going to support the Lions and not the Sharks this is your punishment.
24 Oct 2011, 14:47 pm
@Treehugger(Treehugger)-250: Will do!
24 Oct 2011, 14:51 pm
Wasnt there a story a while back the JF had re signed with WP or was that Habana ?
24 Oct 2011, 14:52 pm
@Treehugger(Treehugger)-254: supporting the Lions is an honour, not a punishment. It is an exclusive club for the select few who are, smart, upmarket, classy, intelligent … that’s right we do not shop at Mr Price stores … we go to Stuttafords.
24 Oct 2011, 14:54 pm
@Treehugger(Treehugger)-256:
Habana
24 Oct 2011, 14:57 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-251: Ok thanks.
@Gunther(gunther)-252: Indeed!. Out here I’m known as “Beltin’ John” …..
Famous for my rendition of “I’m Still Standing” after downing my umpteenth Long Island Iced tea…..
24 Oct 2011, 14:58 pm
@RL(RL)-257: Stuttafords ? thought they had closed down years ago, lol. Its going to be a close game i think.
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-258: Thanks
24 Oct 2011, 15:01 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-231: interesting how a year and a some odd changes people’s perspectives
http://www.keo.co.za/2010/04/21/troubles-of-a-white-wing/
24 Oct 2011, 15:05 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-261:
Ja ne…
24 Oct 2011, 15:10 pm
@RL(RL)-257:
stuttaford?…i think they closed down years ago.
how old are your clothes?
i mean the ‘new’ new stuff.
24 Oct 2011, 15:10 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-261:
You cut Ryan deep…
24 Oct 2011, 15:34 pm
This has been an interesting development from the Bulls. The invested a lot in the next generation of players, especially in the backline. Brummer, Watermeyer, Dippenaar, Hekkies and a couple of others were seen as the future, and have not cracked on as they should’ve.
They have now been replaced by players of similar experience levels, and of a similar age, however the new players have clearly been viewed as more talented.
Is this an acknowledgement that the talent wasn’t good enough, and therefore that the talent scouts weren’t good enough? Does it suggest that the Bulls’ academy isn’t good enough to develop quality players? Or was the talent available to the Bulls at that stage not good enough? It does raise questions about the ‘structures’ at the Bulls.
The next generation at the Bulls – under 19s and under 20s – are very good. Small-Smith and Andile Jho, for example in the centers, are some of the best young players I have seen in a while. Hopefully for the sake of the Bulls the next generation doesn’t fail like Brummer, Hekkies, Watermeyer et al.
24 Oct 2011, 15:47 pm
@wolfman I believe the gameplan the Bulls played did not develop backline play. All the guys you mentioned are backline players. Dean Greyling, Chilliboy Ralepele, Werner Kruger, Flip, Stegmann, Potgieter, CJ Stander etc are all players that came through the same structures. The Bulls academy therefore is succesful, but it does have its failures. The fact that they got a grey college coach to bring through the next generation is a good sign that this may change.
24 Oct 2011, 15:57 pm
@Horings(Horings)-266: It is clear that the academy isn’t providing the Bulls with all the forwards they need either. Fudge has been around for a while, and hasn’t developed into a Super 15 quality player.
They have signed a 30 year old hooker from Europe, a backrower/lock from EP, they have signed a prop from the Pumas, have recruited a 24 year old from the Varsity Cup, and have grabbed Steenkamp back from the Cheetahs.
I realise that they are losing a lot of great players recently, but the academy doesn’t appear to be churning out the forwards that it should either.
24 Oct 2011, 16:17 pm
Not the most sensible buy in the world… IMO… he was never my favourite player…
but if he’s gonna be a stormer…
good luck to the kid… hope he finds his magic mojo in our beautiful city and fulfils all the potential Tacitus always believed he has…
welcome to the cape gerhard…!!
24 Oct 2011, 16:55 pm
@WOLFMAN21(WOLFMAN21)-265:
this is nothing new, you can only provide the opportunity to develope into senior pro’s but this does not always happen. As has happened many times before, an u21 superstar does not automatically become a senior performer.
this current crop definately does not look like making the grade, they are however all u19/21 cc champs and vodacom champs and junior boks.
just goes to show really.
personally, I do not include Hurdles in this categorary. I think his move may be about money and opportunity. It is also only a 2 year contract so you may yet see him back at the bulls.
Bulls look well sorted at 15 with kirchener and this other new oke.then you have hougaard who’ll probably stay on the wing, with maybe engelbrecht who looks a lot more physically imposing than kirchener, supplemented with the intellegence of ndgane. Keeping in mind that the outside backs of the current u21 look breathtaking. (sampie mastriet,etc).
And even then, if they keep the venter/olivier combo at 12/13….you may even find Sadie playing on the wing as well.
so plenty of options really.
24 Oct 2011, 17:00 pm
@WOLFMAN21(WOLFMAN21)-267:
It’s true, I’ve been watching the junior ranks looking for a half decent lock. Fudge is okay at best, this’ll probably be his final year to make an impact. Steenkamp was originally a bull so wouldn’t include him.
Personally, I like what I’m seeing from the bulls…they don’t look to interested in hanging around too long to build another team to win trophys.
It’s important to understand, that overseas, in football clubs like ManU and Barcelona…they all have youth academys. Only once in a blue moon do any of these youths turn out to be good enough to graduate to the senior side.
24 Oct 2011, 17:09 pm
@WOLFMAN21(WOLFMAN21)-265: DIRECTOR of rugby Heyneke Meyer told Business Day yesterday he planned to turn the Blue Bulls back into a dominant franchise which plays a fluid, high-intensity running game.
Meyer’s recruits thus far, Johan Sadie, JJ Engelbrecht and most recently Lionel Cronje, are fleet- footed backline players, a clear indication of the direction the team would be taking.
“I brought Pine (Pienaar) in who was a backline coach because I want to improve the way we’re playing. If you look at the guys we’ve recruited, they are very exciting backs.
“You always have a vision of how you want to play and then get players around that.
“We will always have a tough forward pack but we’ve looked at how the game has evolved,” Meyer said.
“If you stay the same you’ll never get ahead.”
“We are looking hard at the way we are going to play. We are busy with a lot of camps that (are set up) to have the whole union playing the same way.”
However the changes will not be without their casualties.
“The hard decisions we had to make (were) which players we want to keep and which we will let go,” Meyer said.
24 Oct 2011, 17:11 pm
Ok then…
9 Duvenage
10 Grant
11 Habana
12 JdV
13 J Fourie
14 Shadow
15 Aplon
But we need farking forwards!!! Front rowers, to be preice. Brok “Inside Centre” Harris, Tiaan “Skeeeewwww” Liebenberg and whoever else just aren’t good enough for us to compete against international packs.
Please, Rassie and AC, don’t waste more money on flashy backs. Invest in something we need.
Boy, imagine if we got the Du Plessis brothers…
24 Oct 2011, 17:13 pm
@WOLFMAN21(WOLFMAN21)-265: it is more about the change in philosophy by Heineken than those youngsters not being “good enough”. what will heineken do now with a player like morne who he brainwashed not run the ball but skop alles? will he discard him or reprogramme the robot to play flatter and get his new exciting backs going?
24 Oct 2011, 17:17 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-273:
at loftus you’ll always need a dead eye kicker.
Morne will be fine and continue as bok flyhalf for some time yet.
24 Oct 2011, 17:24 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-273: Fair point you raise there. If that is the case, the Bulls are under taking a massive cultural change in their playing style, and I imagine there will be a couple more casualties of this change, and some teething problems. I hope we aren’t seeing a 4 year plan, although some type of success will be important as there are a lot of contracts up for renewal in 2013.
I don’t think he will dump Steyn, or players such as Olivier, but they will have to adapt or spend a lot of time on the bench. In guys like Fouche and Cronje, and Botha and Sadie, there are plenty of young, talented players putting pressure on the experienced old guard.
It is natural for something like this to happen with players such as Matfield and du Preez moving on. Perhaps the Stormers will follow the Bulls, who are following the Cheetahs and Lions in this change of style?
24 Oct 2011, 18:40 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl)-274:
Perhaps we’ll see the original running Morne back, but I fear the damage may have already been done.
24 Oct 2011, 19:19 pm
175
{{ ” I don’t quite get the hype that everyone has for this Kolisi ….. ”
” Is he a fetcher, no.
Is he a big ball carrier, no.
Is he a dominant 8th man, no.
What is he besides a softy who cries off when he is tackled hard ” }}
Another View, An Alternate Notion a more Realistic QUESTION?
It is a huge S. African failing that the limited cortical capacities of the majority on this site does not allow too many serious matters to be seen in total perspective even in a simple past-time such as sport and specifically rugby.
While the above quoted points/questions are all true/valid the biggest, most important one is not made or asked and you can lay that at the door of merely being 15 years post a 300 plus years of mostly constitutionalised RACISM.
I will not make the point fully for that will require days of writing.
But I will say you need to know that little Kolisi is merely the Black Satin piece of cloth on the skin that as a background accentuates the stunning splendour of the White Pearls or White Diamonds that takes your breath away and leaves you speechless and not asking the real questions.
Why is, an anatomically not fully developed, Siya not playing and honing his skills in the u/20s?
In the just past Junior WC he was clearly an inconsistent and worse performer than A.Botha or his provincial mate, Nizaam Carr.
Why the rush to fast-track him at risk of serious injury to his undeveloped body when others are seemingly better? This is the question to the plot of fooling the world wrt the real question of true non-racism and thus clear opportunities for all in the land of their forefathers’ birth.
Siya has obvious talent which needs to be nurtured and fully developed. Right now he is just the seeming valueless piece of black satin and certainly not the so much more valuable white pearl or diamond. Even though satin it is still just a piece of cloth and not a priceless stone.
Think Siya Kolisi, think seriously. It is still S.Africa where you find yourself and that means it is still RACIST as the whites own the economy while they allow the blacks to fiddle with the politics.
24 Oct 2011, 19:23 pm
@ET.(ET.)-277: “It is a huge S. African failing that the limited cortical capacities of the majority on this site does not allow too many serious matters to be seen in……..zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz……….
24 Oct 2011, 19:32 pm
@ET.(ET.)-277:
Kolisi is there because of injuries during the season. He’s a 7 (SA) and Carr is competing for the 6 jersey. I doubt whether either would have had a run on role if it hadn’t been for injuries. Much as Zorro would still be playing Vodacom Cup.
24 Oct 2011, 19:36 pm
Some further advice for the young and vastly inexperienced Kolisi.
It is not recommended that you take on with your softer head the os coxae of the sons of the Children of Ham. In days of yore they roamed and ran up and down and around the mountains of the Western Cape.
This has ensured that their bones of the lower appendicular skeleton have consistently been over-loaded and challenged to the point of being extremely well developed and those good genes have been passed down for generations now.
Besides the game of rugby has been played among their ancestry for so long as judged by the 2nd oldest rugby club(by less than a year) in the land, Primroses R.C., emanating from good old Claremont of Cape Town.
24 Oct 2011, 19:36 pm
@ET.(ET.)-277: constitutionalised RACISM…. as opposed to “ethnical” racism?
You poor confused farker.
24 Oct 2011, 19:48 pm
@David(David)-279:
That may well be your view and from your position that is understood, but it is still garbage since you are asking me to believe and accept that a presently better player and more anatomically developed loose-forward is not ever to be found in W.P. club rugby. Kolisi is not even the 3rd(or more) best #7 in the W.P.
Just not possible. There is an ulterior motive clearly but by virtue of your being not able to walk in shoes of such as Mpundulu and millions more you are still “just intrigued ” and will forever in this lifetime be so.
Just the facts, David , just the facts I am giving, nothing personal. Remember virtue of birth is in some ways a limitation to ALL of us. It is just circumstance that determines that limitation.
24 Oct 2011, 19:50 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-281:
Your virtue of birth will forever hold you limited wrt Africa, espicially south of the Limpopo.
24 Oct 2011, 19:56 pm
-278:
If not through limited cortical capacity how do you set about reckoning that your “recon”(tip of a gigantic iceberg) is not to be found in my big Oxford.
Remenber that huge blooper “umbridge”?
24 Oct 2011, 19:57 pm
Im glad to see Heyneke Meyer deciding to adopt that type of approach. The Springboks will need to as well. I dont think it is a case of revolutionising the way they play, it is more about tweaking areas of our play, and enhancing them. We without a doubt have the best foward (or have at least) pack in the World, and we constantly churn out fantastic forwards. And we should keep utilising that strength and enhancing it. However, as was so obvious against Australia and in many other games, we need to evolve our attacking backline play. We have the players going forward and with Du Preez now moving on, the kick chase game will just not suffice any more. Im not saying we must become cavalier and run from all ends of the park, because kicking tactically and kick chase can still be used, they are not outdated tactics. We need to keep that in our armoury, however, add the attacking areas to it. I have been mightily impressed with the Lions recently and the way Spencer has got them skilled into playing flat and attacking and using simple hands down the line.
I hope Heyneke also takes the Bok job, as apparently Alister Coetzee and Rassie are not keen accoridng to 365.
24 Oct 2011, 20:02 pm
@ET.(ET.)-282:
No, I haven’t walked in Mpundulus shoes, but then, neither have you walked in mine, which is why I ask questions.
I agree that Kolisi isn’t in the top 3 7s in the province, but with Vermeulen out, Flo overseas and Schalk with the Boks when Kolisi got his chance, the choices were limited. Against the Lions powerfull loose trio it would have been madness to go with a loose trio of Carr, Koster and Schalk.
24 Oct 2011, 20:02 pm
@ET.(ET.)-284: glass houses Dr Do-little. Glass houses….
24 Oct 2011, 20:26 pm
They buy van den Heever while they let JJ Engelbrecht go.
Pure madness once again from WPRU.
24 Oct 2011, 20:30 pm
Were there not pressures after the super 15 from above to pick a more representative Province team?
24 Oct 2011, 20:33 pm
@David(David)-286:
Truthfully I have no desire to walk in your shoes for in S. Africa they have almost always been on the wrong side of social evils or social justice and social intent(again no personal intent here). You admitted to voting there in your time.
Are you by any distorted notion suggesting that in S.A., only whites ask questions let alone meaningful, soul searching ones? How do you explain ‘Apartheid’ then or the qualified franchis that never was even before then?
In 282 I used the word presently which took care of Louw, Vermeulen and Skunk Burger and used W.P.club rugby as your limiting factor.
Well with Kolisi there it strangely turned out to be even more disastrous you would have to agree as the game was famously lost and more famously the smallest Lion on the field sent Siya into the realm of counting the stars for what purpose I do not know.
He is lucky Jantjies did not even attempt to tackle him or else he may now be be in your heaven.
24 Oct 2011, 20:35 pm
@I am a stormer moffie(I am a stormer moffie)-288:
Solely because pathetic supporters like you tolerate that and allow it to happen without even a murmur. Cowards all.
24 Oct 2011, 20:37 pm
@I am a stormer(I am a stormer)-288:
The point is, could they afford to match the Bulls offer, in order to keep him?
@Horings(Horings)-289:
I think that’s something most people are missing.
24 Oct 2011, 20:37 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-287:
See Province in talks with Joe Pietersen. Hope he comes back – I still rate the guy.
24 Oct 2011, 20:38 pm
-287:
To get people to accept your misguided notion just substantiate your claim as I do above with “recon” and ” umbridge”.
OK you softies I have bashed you enough for one day and will leave you floundering in the gutters and sluices where rats feel more at home.
24 Oct 2011, 20:40 pm
@EthnicTurd.(EthnicTurd.)-291:
And by that, you mean precisely what?
Yet another nothing comment from you.
24 Oct 2011, 20:41 pm
THis does not change the fact that we still need decent props.
24 Oct 2011, 20:44 pm
@ET.(ET.)-290:
I’ve never admitted to voting anywhere. As a so called scientist, you have an unfortunate habit of presenting an assumption as fact and building a hypothesis on it. In most circles, that would be considered as intellectual immaturity. Nothing personal, of course.
24 Oct 2011, 20:44 pm
@I am a stormer(I am a stormer)-293: I hope they can sign him. That would make a big difference!
24 Oct 2011, 20:45 pm
@ET.(ET.)-294:
Ja, you and Gaddaffi both. Both bloody sewer rats.
24 Oct 2011, 21:32 pm
Shadow is now a SPARTAN!!!
24 Oct 2011, 21:58 pm
In the 2010 rugby season van den heever was being talked of as a future bok wing as he was playing superb rugby and deserved to be talked about,a year on and he is playing so poorly he can hardly get on the subs bench at loftus.He has put on weight and he is deffinately not as fast as he was and he could`nt tackle his own shadow never mind tackling other players.It looks to me as if he has lost all confidence in his ability and is not interested in playing rugby,maybe the change to the 2nd raters will improve his rugby just like it did to habana hahahahahahaha,they can have him as the bulls have no room in their team for passengers and he is no longer good enough for the bulls,but he is good enough for the 2nd raters,hehehehehehehe.
24 Oct 2011, 23:48 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-108: But all of them are better than Pdivvy
25 Oct 2011, 00:15 am
Lol, best comment of the thread:
“With AC as coach we would have made the semi.”
2nd best coach gets you a 2nd best mentality.
Appoint AC as coach and you better be prepared for the 65% “good times”.
25 Oct 2011, 00:43 am
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-303: and prepare for Jake White-style conservatism and loyalty in player selection.
25 Oct 2011, 01:15 am
I wonder if v.d. heever still looks like dirty sanchez wif dat mustache
25 Oct 2011, 07:13 am
Whoever is handeling the players contracts at Province should get fired, I mean swapping JJ Engeldbrecht for Shadow is a **** trade!
25 Oct 2011, 07:52 am
@BreakdownBoy(goodstuff)-306:
have to agree… i’ve been a big jj fan since he emerged from the junior ranks a couple of years ago…
i can’t believe they let him go for less than it cost to acquire van den heever… so not only have we let go a very industrious, speedy and capable wing with good defensive qualities too… for a wing who normally can only perform in space with very limited defence… but i believe the deal lost us money too…
but still… i’m not going to blame or take it out on the players… i wish them both well and i’ll support van den heaver as a wp player and hope that somewhere along the line he gets specialist training and ups his game…
25 Oct 2011, 08:30 am
wow. nice to see one going the other way for a change!
25 Oct 2011, 15:46 pm
From rugby365…
interesting… seems maybe johan sadie and jj’s agents may have been a little too greedy….
Erasmus confirmed that they will continue to bring young stars through the age-group ranks rather than buy seasoned players as they attempt to build a winning brand.
Having been knocked out by the Lions in the Currie Cup semifinal in Johannesburg at the weekend, both Erasmus and head coach Allister Coetzee spoke of the “hurt” and “disappointment” of another failed campaign.
However, Erasmus was adamant that they have the right blend of players in Cape Town to get over that final hurdle and start winning trophies – having lost in the Super Rugby Final and Currie Cup Final last year, while falling at the semifinal stage in both competitions this year.
Speaking of their loss at the weekend Erasmus said in an “under-strength” Currie Cup – during the World Cup years 1999, 2007 and this year – then the teams who lose fewer Boks tend to win … as the Lions [in 1999] and the Cheetahs did in 2007.
He did not feel there was a need to go out an buy a new team just because they were beaten in a semifinal by a motivated and cohesive Lions outfit.
“If you look at the Lions, they are a full-blooded Super 15 team,” Erasmus said, when asked about the dominance the Lions pack had in the set-pieces.
“If you take out your senior scrumhalf, your main line-out loose forward that contests at the back of the line-out, you take out your senior No.5 lock, you take out your No.4 lock, then you will struggle not just against the Lions but any Super Rugby team,” he said of -players like Duane Vermeulen, Andries Bekker, Rynhardt Elstadt and Dewaldt Duvenage.
“When you lose that quality of player it will have a huge impact. I do not have to go buy those guys [players in those positions], they were just injured.
“They will come back once they recover from their injuries,” he explained.
Erasmus also dismissed the notion that the loss of players like Johan Sadie, JJ Engelbrecht and Lionel Cronje (all to the Bulls) constitutes a major crisis.
“We are happy with how [Demetri] Catrakilis has come through the ranks, a Kurt Coleman, Gary van Aswegen … we are happy that we are covered there. We still have the possibility of Peter Grant [who is set to return from Japan in mid-season again in 2012],” he said of the flyhalf position.
“To lose a guy like JJ [Engelbrecht], who came through the system, is very disappointing, but we just could not afford what they [the Bulls] offered him.
“I believe Gerhard [van den Heever] will add another dimension to our team.
“If you lose some players in JJ [Engelbrecht] and Johan Sadie, but keeping Nic Groom, Louis Schreuder, Gary van Aswegen, you get players like Dimitri Catrakilis, bring Rynhardt Elstadt through, bring Eben Etsebeth through, then it is not so bad.
“I can tell you now people would not have been happy if I guaranteed those two what they were asking for. I can’t guarantee a guy he will have the No.13 jersey, that is not fair to Juan de Jongh, Jaque Fourie and Jean de Villiers,” he commented.
Erasmus confirmed that most of the province’s young stars have been signed up for the next few years – players like Steven Kitschoff, Frans Malherbe, Siyabonga Ntubeni, Eben Etsebeth, Quinn Roux, Nizaam Carr, Siya Kolisi, Nic Groom, Nick Koster, Louis Schreuder, Gary van Aswegen, Demetri Catrakilis, Kurt Coleman, Danie Poolman and Tshotsho Mbovane.
He admitted that if success is measured against the number of trophies won, WP have failed.
“If one measures success by trophies, then we were not successful,” he said.
“We had three home semifinals, we played in two finals last year and we were the top South African franchise in Super Rugby this year.
“In two seasons now we just couldn’t get over the last hurdle. I’m taking it on the chin.
“There may have been a refereeing call here and an intercept there and we then don’t win any trophies in a disrupted Currie Cup season, then we don’t have success.
“However, if you look at things like getting the Under-19 players through, getting the Under-21 through, not signing a lot of players from the outside then I think we are really successful.
“When we [Coetzee and Erasmus] arrived here [as coaches in Cape Town] four years ago the team was 11th on the [Super Rugby] standings and didn’t make the Currie Cup semifinals.
“We are building, but it is just that last little hurdle.”
By Jan de Koning
25 Oct 2011, 15:47 pm
but great to see most of our other youngsters are contracted up…
25 Oct 2011, 15:50 pm
@ufo(ufo)-309:
what are habana and fourie?
are they young players or season pros?
25 Oct 2011, 15:52 pm
Coetzee: Life after Sadie, JJ
2011-10-24 22:16
Cape Town – Western Province coach Allister Coetzee says they “tried hard” to keep the services of star duo, JJ Engelbrecht and Johan Sadie, but nevertheless insists they have enough talent to be optimistic about the future.
Province ended another season without a trophy when they lost their Currie Cup semi-final against the Golden Lions in Johannesburg over the weekend. The Capetonians last won the Currie Cup way back in 2001.
“We understand fully the pain of the faithful out there, maybe even more so. The players and management are equally if not more hungry for silverware and there was lot of disappointment and introspection in the camp,” Coetzee told the WP Rugby website.
But Coetzee insists a lot of positives could be taken out of the season, despite the departure of two of their brightest young backline stars in Engelbrecht and Sadie.
“I have not changed my mind on the value that this season will have into the future. The names of JJ and Sadie are bandied about in argument pointing to the failure of WP to develop and retain its youngsters and provide quality depth into the future.
“The reality is however somewhat different. Those players’ contracts came to an end and we tried hard to keep them. That said, there are fantastic structures in place at all levels and a big group of talented youngsters coming through the ranks.
“This season 16 U21 players received significant game time in the senior competition, with the bulk of them having signed with WP for the future,” said Coetzee.
The coach believes the experienced gained in the Currie Cup season will stand the youngsters in good stead in the future, especially with the 2012 Super Rugby season looming.
“It would have been easy to buy old experienced players for the Currie Cup season. We took the opposite route as a stated pre-season goal to continue the development of our youngsters to ensure depth for Super Rugby. Whilst it may be of little immediate consolation, that investment is a great one and will be of enormous value next season and into the future,” said Coetzee.
25 Oct 2011, 15:55 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-311:
rhetorical i’m sure… so just spill what’s on your mind…
25 Oct 2011, 15:59 pm
@ufo(ufo)-313:
what young talent was sitting in front of sadie and jj?
they were stuck behind habana and fourie.
rassie talking out of his bumhole.
and if they were so concerned about homegrown youngsters why did they sign shadow?
25 Oct 2011, 16:11 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-314:
hehehe… i’m just posting what they said… to give a fuller context to what other posters are saying…
i can give you the number of WPRU and you can ask RE and AC themselves…
as i said in another post… the shadow thing didn’t make sense to me either… trading one strong wing for a weaker one… IMO… I’m a big jj fan and believe he’s better than shadow… and perhaps our biggest loss… i’m not too concerned about sadie and cronje…
but yeah… also think it’s weird he says we don’t need to buy any forwards… IMO we obviously need to invest in a couple of props and locks… or a new forward coach to teach those we do have how to do the job…
but maybe this is heyneke being clever and blowing smoke up this youngsters bums and getting them to ask for higher contracts from wp so that they would inevitably leave for greener pastures…?
25 Oct 2011, 16:15 pm
@ufo(ufo)-315:
interesting… seems maybe johan sadie and jj’s agents may have been a little too greedy….
who said that?
if I want to know whats going on I just phone my pal Matty proudfeet.
thanks for the offer though.
25 Oct 2011, 16:21 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-316:
forgot happy matty feet was your bud… maybe you can return the favour and offer me his number…
please ask him what the hell is happening there… from a very loyal life-long but very exasperated wp supporter…
25 Oct 2011, 16:24 pm
so what’s matt’s opinion on all the criticism of his pack…?
25 Oct 2011, 16:24 pm
@ufo(ufo)-317:
sorry I can’t hand out his number to every jocksniffer on the street
25 Oct 2011, 16:29 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-319:
just to square you away with the facts…
i’m not any ol’ jock-sniffer on the street… the gutter’s more apt…
as The Famous Pig SOng says…
‘Twas an evening in October, I’ll confess I wasn’t sober,
I was carting home a load with manly pride,
When my feet began to stutter and I fell into the gutter,
And a pig came up and lay down by my side.
Then I lay there in the gutter and my heart was all a-flutter,
Till a lady, passing by, did chance to say:
“You can tell a man that boozes by the company he chooses,”
Then the pig got up and slowly walked away.
25 Oct 2011, 16:34 pm
@ufo(ufo)-320:
26 Oct 2011, 10:56 am
Eben Etsebeth – now there is a unique talent that WP would do well to nuture. This youngster is destined for great things………definitely Springbok material….
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