Boks, Pumas to open ‘Rugby Championship’
8 Nov 2011
The Springboks will play Argentina in their first game of next year’s Rugby Championship, the four-team southern-hemisphere tournament replacing the existing Tri-Nations.
An agreement confirming Argentina’s participation was signed in Auckland recently by the Sanzar Joint Venture partners after several months of negotiations with the Unión Argentina de Rugby (UAR) and the International Rugby Board (IRB).
The new-look tournament has been given a new name and a new fixture line-up with two Tests on each match day. Each participant plays home and away matches against each of the other three participants.
The Boks open their campaign against the Pumas in South Africa on 18 August before taking part in the first Rugby Championship match on the South American continent a week later. The match venues will be announced in due course.
‘The regular participation of Argentina at a higher level is long overdue and we are excited about their inclusion in The Rugby Championship,’ said Sanzar CEO Greg Peters, ‘Playing in the Championship will have significant benefits for Argentinian rugby as a whole and will bring new energy to the jewel in the crown of Sanzar.
‘The Pumas, as they showed at the recent Rugby World Cup, play an exciting and different brand of rugby to the other three teams, which will definitely add a new dimension.’
According to a statement by Sanzar, the new name of the Rugby Championship reflects its claim to be the ultimate contest, featuring teams that are currently ranked first, second, fourth and seventh in the world.
‘The Rugby Championship is an annual contest between the ‘best-of-the-best’ in world rugby – nations who have won six of the seven Rugby World Cups,’ said Peters.
Saru CEO Jurie Roux said he hopes these changes will result in a more balanced tournament. In the past, South Africa has suffered because of travel.
‘This is a significant moment in the history of Southern Hemisphere rugby and marks the launching pad to a dramatically changed landscape. It will add a new flavour and dimension to Sanzar rugby and offers the prospect of promoting rugby in other South American nations.
‘It also ensures a more logical and balanced Championship with fixtures and travel evened out across the region.’
The 2012 Championship will kick-off on 18 August 2012 and conclude on 6 October 2012. A Sanzar delegation will travel to Argentina in November on a fact-finding visit during which it will conduct venue inspections and hold discussions with the UAR, host broadcasters, sponsors and other key stakeholders to ensure the smooth transition from Tri-Nations to The Rugby Championship.
The Rugby Championship fixtures:
18 August 2012: Australia vs New Zealand, South Africa vs Argentina
25 August 2012: New Zealand vs Australia, Argentina vs South Africa
1 September 2012: Travel Bye
8 September 2012: Australia vs South Africa, New Zealand vs Argentina
15 September 2012: Australia vs Argentina, New Zealand vs South Africa
22 September 2012: Travel Bye
29 September 2012: South Africa vs Australia, Argentina vs New Zealand
6 October 2012: South Africa vs New Zealand, Argentina vs Australia
391 Comments
8 Nov 2011, 08:13 am
I heard that there was talk of inviting England to this tourney, but the belief was that the English players touring SA are less logical in their behavoiur than the Malema youth league, and the country police were not geared up for more mass action
8 Nov 2011, 08:18 am
this is either going to make argentine rugby stronger or quite possibly a lot weaker imo.
continual undisputed wooden spoon thrashings might put them in a negative frame semi-permanently.
8 Nov 2011, 08:24 am
this is quite exciting imo…
nothing like shaking the tree to see what falls out…
will be VEEEERY interesting to see how the Nzar’s cope with the extra travel… and what they say about it after a few results don’t go their way…
8 Nov 2011, 08:27 am
So is Arg playing their games in S.A or will they host games in Arg? I hope they get the right to host the games in Argentina. It will help rugby in that country.
8 Nov 2011, 08:30 am
So SA gets screwed again.
The only side to play away from home before and after a bye week.
8 Nov 2011, 08:33 am
Will be interesting to see how teams cope with the extra travel.
8 Nov 2011, 08:35 am
Geographically, this is interesting too, with the teams being spread across the southern hemisphere. Depending on how you hold the globe, each could be seen as the central country. And if you wanted to pick a spot that was geographically neutral and central to host the tournament, it would have to be somewhere on Antarctica. Imagine that.
8 Nov 2011, 08:37 am
Nog meer rugby? huh?
8 Nov 2011, 08:39 am
@Sasuke(Sasuke)-4: In Arg
8 Nov 2011, 08:39 am
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-5: After the 2nd bye we are playing at home.
8 Nov 2011, 08:40 am
@Sasuke(Sasuke)-4:
yip, which evens out the travel factor considerably for us i guess as the atipodeans will have to go over there.
8 Nov 2011, 08:40 am
@Staal(Staal)-8: wel, die bokke gaan nooit weer in die CC te siene wees nie.
Die Lions beter hoop hulle kry nie te veel bok call ups nie
8 Nov 2011, 08:41 am
@My nr1 nr2 too(trupisero)-9: Great stuff. Exciting for development in Arg rugby.
8 Nov 2011, 08:42 am
@Sasuke(Sasuke)-13: Yip, just hope they can pull their best players from Europe else they will get hammered relentlessly.
8 Nov 2011, 08:44 am
Could they not come up with anything more original than “Rugby Championship”?
8 Nov 2011, 08:45 am
Well that championship will ensure that no Bok will ever play in the Currie Cup again.
Sharkievarkies let’s hear the whinging.
8 Nov 2011, 08:45 am
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-11: Yip no more complaining about travel fatigue we all will be equal.
@My nr1 nr2 too(trupisero)-12: lol so true.
8 Nov 2011, 08:47 am
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-5:
yes you may be right. our administrator big heads really pisss me off most times.
however, consider that jetlags supposed to be worse in the one direction as opposed to the other but even considering this it seems the schedule is still in their favour.
8 Nov 2011, 08:47 am
@Yetirat(Yetirat)-15: yes it’s actually called the Castle Rugby Championship.
8 Nov 2011, 08:57 am
@19 Roar my Lions,
I love that name.
Perhaps just the “Castle”
It would sound stupid if we called in “the XXXX’
8 Nov 2011, 08:58 am
Converance Cup….. hehehehehe
Vodacom Cup
CCup
Castle Champions Cup
EOYT
holy smokes….
did i miss a cup?
8 Nov 2011, 09:00 am
What a joke.
And the biggest farce of all is that the S15 is now split in two by some test matches.
A total mess.
8 Nov 2011, 09:04 am
@Staal(Staal)-21: goeie genugtig…
ek’t S15 vergeet…
8 Nov 2011, 09:04 am
@Staal(Staal)-21: s15?
8 Nov 2011, 09:04 am
@Staal(Staal)-23: en Varsity.
8 Nov 2011, 09:05 am
I like the idea of getting the Argies involved – we may see some of their players in the S15.
The tourney name is wrong – it should be Southern Hemisphere International Tournament – or S.H.I.T. for short.
8 Nov 2011, 09:05 am
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-22: When will the S15 end? Will the play-off stage be played after the June Window?
8 Nov 2011, 09:07 am
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-18:
Point is all the other sides will either be able to fly home, have a week off & then play a home game, or….. play a game at home, have a week off, and then fly overseas for their away game.
New Zealand even has a home game before and after the first bye week.
The Springboks on the other hand have to travel to Argentina, then decide whether to fly back to South Africa for their bye week, or fly straight to Australia. No time at home.
Could argue that it’s not that big a deal, but it’s still a disadvantage.
8 Nov 2011, 09:07 am
@foot-in-touch(foot-in-touch)-26: lol classic
8 Nov 2011, 09:15 am
@Sasuke(Sasuke)-27:
There will be 3 rounds left after the June window. Then a further 3 weekends for the SR play-offs.
Super Rugby – February 25 to June 2. Then June 30 to August 4.
Currie Cup – August 11 to October 27
Springbok Fixtures:
February 9, 16 & 23. Incoming tour versus England
August 18 – October 6 – Rugby Championship
November 10 – Ireland versus Springboks
November 17 – Scotland versus Springboks
October 24 – England versus Springboks
The Junior World Championships will also run at the same time as the incoming England tour.
8 Nov 2011, 09:15 am
@foot-in-touch(foot-in-touch)-26:
8 Nov 2011, 09:15 am
The Southern Cup.
8 Nov 2011, 09:21 am
Argies will lose every game.
8 Nov 2011, 09:24 am
So the S15 starts in February and ends in early August.
In between this, Super Rugby takes a break for the June internationals.
And then the Rugby Championship starts straight after the S15 finishes and ends in October.
With the CC somewhere in and around this mess?
Holyshit thats a lot of Rugby.
8 Nov 2011, 09:24 am
@>^..^< katman(katman)-32:
Or the Southern Hemisphere International Tournament
S.H.I.T. for short
8 Nov 2011, 09:25 am
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-30: yesses that fixture list is RIDICULOUS!
8 Nov 2011, 09:27 am
Think the Argies might break our strangehold on the wooden spoon next year…
I reckon Aus are favs to take the first S.H.I.T. Cup
8 Nov 2011, 09:28 am
Well boys and girls, you can kiss the Currie Cup goodbye.
Your top 150 players will be engaged in Super Rugby from February to August.
Your top 30 players will be tied up with the Boks for 3 weeks in June, and if they are in Super Rugby play-off’s or final, have 2 weeks rest before they join the Boks in the new Rugby Champs comp.
After this, they will tour Europe.
The Currie Cup (not finalised yet as far as I know) will run from July to October.
And for the record, this is a kak name.
8 Nov 2011, 09:29 am
If if was a knock-out competition, they could brand it as the Federal Union Cup Knockout??
8 Nov 2011, 09:29 am
@John Galt(John Galt)-34:
Seems like a lot but not any more then we currently have.
Also benefits teams to have a bit of a break towards the end of the Super 15. Gives time for injured players to recover and so forth.
Do think we need to pull out all Springboks out of the CC though. Give them time off and then go for a 2-week training and conditioning camp before the EOYT.
8 Nov 2011, 09:30 am
Stoked for the Argies though – only positive I am taking from this.
8 Nov 2011, 09:31 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-38:
The Currie Cup will only start on the 11th of August. Again the week after the Super-15 final, same as it was in 2011.
That’s why they made it 6 teams (rather then 8). 4 less rounds.
8 Nov 2011, 09:33 am
The S.H.I.Y cup , bwaa haa haa. Made my day ! Thanks foot in touch !
8 Nov 2011, 09:33 am
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-40:
As Pissant says.
Say bye bye to the Currie Cup.
The Loins are the last true champions of the real CC.
8 Nov 2011, 09:35 am
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-42:
Thanks.
Still means no Boks – it starts a week before the Rugby Champs starts. Boks will be on training camp.
8 Nov 2011, 09:37 am
@John Galt(John Galt)-44:
Bit over the top. Currie Cup still brings in good money. Don’t know how we can say ‘goodbye’ to it when the fixtures aren’t any worse then this year.
If anything it’s being strengthened by not having to play against the Pumas & Leopards.
8 Nov 2011, 09:39 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-45:
If they decide to allow the Boks to play in the Currie Cup, they’ll still become available the week before the semi-finals. Same as 2011.
8 Nov 2011, 09:41 am
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-46:
The CC wont be the same. Its been a slow poison scenario for the CC actually.
The constant lengthening of Super Rugby fixture list, the Tri Nations starting later etc. All these things mean that the CC will become a glorified Vodacom Cup.
You cant deny that the CC only really starts getting going when the Boks return from international duty.
This wont happen now.
8 Nov 2011, 09:43 am
Argentina will get absolutely mascaraed, none of the top players will be released by their European clubs to play in any of the matches, as it will clash with pre season and the European season! The first team would struggle enough as it is against the Tri nations, but their C or D team will be destroyed. Way to go SANZAR!
A decent national league or franchises in the Super 15 first are what is needed first if they are to join the Tri Nations. Joining the 6 Nations in the short term would be better for them until a decent national level is set up in Argentina.
8 Nov 2011, 09:44 am
@Helen(Helen)-35:
Copycat
Foot-in-touch already said that.
8 Nov 2011, 09:46 am
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-47:
Given the amount of rugby that will be played, they will only release the Boks in need of game time that has recovered from injury – and then its still up to CC coaches to include them or not.
8 Nov 2011, 09:46 am
@John Galt(John Galt)-48:
True.
Not too bothered personally about the CC becoming less glorified. Time that it becomes ‘somewhat’ of a feeder tournament.
8 Nov 2011, 09:47 am
@HongKongSlong(HongKongSlong)-49:
You dont think this will ultimately be a good thing for Argie rugby?
Aside from a loss of income from not playing in Europe, I reckon a few of the Argies players currently in Europe will want to try and return and play at home so they can get more international exposure against the best sides in the world.
Could be a long road but ultimately it has to be a good thing for Argentinian rugby as a whole.
8 Nov 2011, 09:47 am
My understanding is that from 2012 the group of rugger tournaments are collectively called the “Professional Over Extension Series”….
8 Nov 2011, 09:47 am
@John Galt(John Galt)-44: Not even this last Currie Cup was ‘real’.
8 Nov 2011, 09:52 am
@John Galt(John Galt)-53:
Argentina Rugby Union has refused to bring in a professional rugby provincial championship in Argentina.
So I doubt we’ll see many of them return to Argentina.
Could see a few play Super Rugby though if they eventually get a team, but that would again cause problems with having to travel so far. Wouldn’t make much sense handing them a team, and then asking them to not play in Argentina.
8 Nov 2011, 09:53 am
@HongKongSlong(HongKongSlong)-49:
Assurances have been made that all of Argentina’s top players will be released. Otherwise SANZAR would’ve never agreed to the expansion.
8 Nov 2011, 09:55 am
@John Galt(John Galt)-53: Its definitely heading in the right direction and Argentina definitely have to be included in World Rugby, its terrible that they haven’t. But you will soon see that the European clubs pose a huge problem to the international players release. There are certain international weekends open for the players to be released, if they do not happen to be agreed, then the clubs will not allow their players to be released. There is absolutely no way that the clubs will agree to release players for an extra 3 months on top of what they already do.
SANZAR need to bust their balls to give the Argies a couple of franchises for the super 15 if they want to make this work properly.
8 Nov 2011, 09:56 am
@HongKongSlong(HongKongSlong)-49: The European (mostly French) clubs have to release the Argentinian players as the tournament falls within an official IRB test window.
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-57: yes
8 Nov 2011, 09:56 am
@BULLET(BULLET)-1: speaking of malema, did you see the hotness he was with in Mauritius? dang!
http://www.sowetanlive.co.za/news/2011/11/06/the-mabilu-wedding—photos#3
8 Nov 2011, 09:56 am
So are there any new rumours on the bok coach?
8 Nov 2011, 10:00 am
The biggest losers locally will be the Vodacom Cup. The new feeder tourny will end up being the CC.
8 Nov 2011, 10:02 am
Argie team will look something like this:
1. Ayerza (Leicester Tigers)
2. Creevy (Montpellier)
3. Figallo (Montpellier)
4. Albacete (Toulouse)
5. Carizza (Biarritz)
6. Senatore (Toulon)
7. Leguizamon (Lyon)
8. Fernandez-Lobbe (Toulon)
9. Vergallo (Toulouse)
10. Contepomi (Stade Francais)
11. Agulla (Leicester Tigers)
12. Rodriguez (Stade Francais)
13. Tiesi (Stade Francais)
14. Camacho (Exeter)
15. Hernandez (Racing Metro)
8 Nov 2011, 10:02 am
I missed this somewhere, Conrad Jantjes is off to France next year.
8 Nov 2011, 10:03 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-60: lol @ the purple pimp suit
8 Nov 2011, 10:05 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-64:
Thank fark.
8 Nov 2011, 10:11 am
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-57: Considering how much the 6 nations teams especially England and France struggle to deal with the clubs, I doubt it, its just simply too long. This looks like its been rushed through and everything has been said it will be ok, but they’re crossing their fingers hoping it will be!
If you think about the season in France, where most of the Argentinians play, it goes from August to June, which is already tremendously long, but now, they then get a month off and then go into the toughest tournament in the world, then straight back to their day job….. Its madness! They have to have another place to ply their trade other then Europe if this Rugby tournament is to work.
8 Nov 2011, 10:12 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-60:
Hot damn!!!!!! Yoh!! Isiphalaphala shhhiiittt!!! Ubuhle bemvelo!
8 Nov 2011, 10:13 am
I prefer the name:
“Four Nations”
8 Nov 2011, 10:15 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-60:
ushiya
8 Nov 2011, 10:15 am
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-28:
i agree with you. i suspect our saru admin guys were once again asleep at the wheel.
cchrist it galls me to think our far we have fallen in standards.
cant hate the kiwis for being wide again in the negotiations and getting the best for the all blacks as usual.
8 Nov 2011, 10:17 am
Currie Cup will be consigned to what it is… a depth-builder for the real competition… the S15…
Winning the RSA conference packed with Springboks in both home and away games… is a far greater achievement than a competition that includes three sub par teams on top of the other 5 unions and no Boks for the majority of the competition if at all…
8 Nov 2011, 10:17 am
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-65: don’t mess around boy, juju is the original PLAYA from the HIMALAYAS
8 Nov 2011, 10:20 am
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-68: yoh sbali UYABABA lomntwana wuPELE PELE…
8 Nov 2011, 10:21 am
@Gunther(gunther)-70: and she’s brushing her teeth & rinsing her mouth with Dom Perignon hehehe
8 Nov 2011, 10:21 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-73:
hahahaha!! Someone was a fan of the Martin Lawrence Show..Cos thats CLASSIC JEROME!!!!
8 Nov 2011, 10:23 am
The Rugby Championship?
Is it just me or is this the beginning of a play by Sanzar to take on the World Cup in the wake of certain nations crying about how much it “costs” them to play in world cups (didn’t that little argument die down quickly).
Add a select team or two from the Northern Hemi and suddenly you have the The Rugby World Championship.
The RWC.
ahem.
8 Nov 2011, 10:23 am
gotta bounce out of the office a bit, later boytjies…
8 Nov 2011, 10:23 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-75:
Uthanda izinto…Lol
8 Nov 2011, 10:24 am
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-76: you know Romy ROME was the MAN hehehe
8 Nov 2011, 10:24 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-75:
she makes a fine revolutionary cadre.
I think mshini wants to show her his mshiniwam.
8 Nov 2011, 10:28 am
@>^..^< katman(katman)-32: That’s better. They could have done worse, the could have called it “The Quadrangular”.
8 Nov 2011, 10:29 am
Logo for this comp here:
http://www.ruggaworld.com/2011/11/08/4n-fixtures-and-logo/
8 Nov 2011, 10:41 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-80:
Of Course! i say Jerome’s in the House(X2) I say Jerome’s in the eh ooh eh ooh (Slam door)….WATCH YOUR MOUTH!!! Romy was king….(Shenay-nay,Otis the Security guard,Bob from Marketing,Elron Preston(dont you know no good) etc…
Once the funniest man alive.
1.Richard Pryor
2.Eddie Murphy
3.Martin Lawrence
8 Nov 2011, 10:42 am
@Gunther(gunther)-77: I thought there was a bit of that about the name. Sounds like when the official RWC video game is ripped off by a cheap imitation. It’s almost as if they’re trying to give the IRB a nudge over the threat to pull out of the World Cup over finance.
8 Nov 2011, 10:44 am
Super 15 is overkill.
This years competition was average compared to the super series of yesteryear
8 Nov 2011, 10:51 am
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-86: IMO this season of S15 was the most exciting in the history of superrugby. With many teams still in the running until the end of the league phase.
8 Nov 2011, 10:53 am
Its a good thing that Heyneke ,and his young group of boks, start with the Argentinians. It wont be a walk over, but it would be a good test to start their new approach and tactics etc.
I think playing AR will help to make games against the auzzies and kiwis exciting again…
8 Nov 2011, 10:59 am
This competition was agreed to over a year ago. So I don’t think it has anything to do with this year’s RWC, although it will give them more bargaining i suppose.
I’m sure that the overriding motivation was simply money. More broadcasting, more TV time.
8 Nov 2011, 11:03 am
@Jeez(Jeez)-88:
I think Heyneke wants to test and experiment with his ideas at the Bulls, rather than the Boks.
8 Nov 2011, 11:03 am
Absolutely mad schedule. Said so on the Burger thread yesterday.
What a shame we sold our Currie Cup down the river. Currie Cup as we know it will die a slow death. Or rather a quick one. No Boks will play in that tourney next year. What a bloody shame. Think the Currie Cup is probably the best tourney in the world. Just look at the final of our CC this year we had a full house 62 000 supporters at the stadium. Which other domestic tourney gets that amount of support? NONE anywhere in the world. Why did we allow our CC to take back seat to this nonsense schedule?
We should never ever have agreed to the new format of S15. That is where it has all gone wrong. We have to stop to play the June Internationals between that tourney. What a bloody mistake that is. 3 week break and the top teams will lose momentum. One week before the Boks play England we have Bulls/Stormers – Lions/Sharks playing each other. So will the new Coach pull the Boks out of those games? Think he will otherwise we will have had no training at all with the coach. Makes the S15 less interesting without our best. But we have to have our best for the Boks. So again whoever agreed to this madness was greedy or plain daft. One week we all playing against each other, the very next week the Bok players from each of our franchise will then be playing with each other. How quick will players gel for the Boks? Then gel back for their franchise after 3 weeks? Also the players that are not Boks they will just have to go into training for 3 weeks to keep fit to get back to S15 after 3 weeks. The only players that the 3 week break will benefit from will be the injured. Cause sure as heck we will have injured players by that time. So will our Boks have the best team, cause of some injured players? Crazy schedule. Madness.
We gonna have to have much bigger squads for next years S15. Probably 40 or we will see too many injuries. Will need 2 players of equal quality for each position.
Pleased the ‘Rugby Champsionship’ will only run after the S15 has completed. Then again we will be travelling the world. Right around the globe we go. How many players will be left standing after the RC?
Just too much rugby. We need to send our youngsters every year from now for the eoyt. Or let them scrap that.
8 Nov 2011, 11:05 am
Yes, Bok players will be wrecked with injury come of the EOYT. It will probably compromise their 4N challenge too. NZ will be better prepared and the Argies by contrast will be fresh after having their off-season.
8 Nov 2011, 11:09 am
They should have 2 pools in S15 especially after the southern kings join in. I like watching Super rugby but damn! Its just too much.
Id rather have a shorter more exciting season and look forward to an end of the year bok tour than a year of rugby. The boks will be fresher, theyll have more than enough time to get their structures right etc. Then the EOTY tour should be something to look forward to…
but with such a long and ongoing season of super rugby, you wouldnt or shouldnt expect much from a exhausted bok squad….unless you take a b team…
imo
8 Nov 2011, 11:14 am
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-86: Totally agree Mishini. S15 is now just way, way too long.
If Oz wanted a longer tourney why not let them play each other again after SuperRugby finished after normal time end of May. Let that be a seperate tourney for them. That could be their domestic tourney. Why the heck haul the whole lof of us NZ/SA into what they want. Crazy. We have our own domestic tourney where we do just that play each other twice. No need for it in SuperRugby.
In SuperRugby we should all only be playing each other once. Not each conference playing each other twice. Just daft that. Bring back the old format anyday. It worked and worked well.
Only need to have a semi then and a final. Instead of the 5th and 6th placed teams still in it at the end with a play off. Daft that. Those teams ending there should not be in it for the cup only the last 4.
8 Nov 2011, 11:17 am
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-85:
Exactly.
I mean really.
THE Rugby Championship.
8 Nov 2011, 11:20 am
@Puma(Puma)-91:
I agree greed is the biggest factor. And hopefully rugby supporters will start to step up and in some way boicot the ********.
Id rather have a full strength bok team than a b team because all the top players get played into the ground.
Everyone loves the game, but I believe that the rugby public really cant support it if its overkill. Everyone is saying it, so why arent anybody acting on it?
Imo the currie cup is a better tournament without the boks. Its good to see the new up and coming players. And it helps with depth building…
That being said, with bigger squads, the quality of players wil go down and thus the game….
=There just isnt enough players with natural talent. We’re going to see more and more players who are probably only good enough to play vodacom cup, who will feature in super rugby…
Lekker afgewaterde squads!
8 Nov 2011, 11:21 am
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-92: Absolutely. Also in SuperRugby we now have the 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th having a play off. With that it brings more travel. Should be based on a league format. Whoever tops the log wins it and scrap the play offs, semi and final. That would cut down on some time saving.
Sharks had to travel to NZ for their play off last year. We had plenty Boks in our team. Just crazy having to travel all the way to NZ to play S15 then again at the end of it. Then AGAIN for 4Nations (Rugby Championship) far too much travel and far too much rugby. Madness.
8 Nov 2011, 11:21 am
@Jeez(Jeez)-93: Yeah, maybe 2 pools with promotion and relegation would be the best way to approach it and expand the number of teams with the Kings and Some Argie teams, maybe some others as well. Less matches, but better quality, without loads of thrashings for teams that are out of their depth.
8 Nov 2011, 11:25 am
@Puma(Puma)-94:
Well said,why the hell would they play each other twice. Greed greed. Players well being definitely not taken into consideration. Coaches have complained about it, players dont seem to make too much of a fuss, their probably greedy buggers too. I really hope this year they loose money. Their never going to sell out any games. Maybe the final and semi’s. Rugby supporters should have a petition or something.
8 Nov 2011, 11:26 am
@Jeez(Jeez)-96: Agree just too much rugby.
Would rather we just went back to the old format it worked well in SuperRugby. That way we got our Boks back for CC for about 5 games.
Yes agree it would be also great to have up and coming youngsters playing CC. But with this very long S15 we will have to have bigger squads and those youngsters probably will be drafted into S15 and then play CC while the Boks in our teams will never play CC again. Huge shame that.
I like to see the best playing for Boks all of the time. Except in a world cup year then we need to rest them, cause these greedy buggers will continue to have 4Nations (RC. Will have to get used to the new name..hehe) and a very long SuperRugby in that year.
We gonna see many injuries. My feeling this will make many of our top Rugby Players want to play overseas. It may be long over there but without the travel.
Saru should have thought of that as well.
8 Nov 2011, 11:29 am
@Jeez(Jeez)-99: It is all about money. Greed for sure.
8 Nov 2011, 11:35 am
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-5: Of farken course, as usual.
The only side in the comp never playing away in consecutive weeks.
8 Nov 2011, 11:40 am
@Puma(Puma)-100:
Well when your top players get injured and supporters dont really mind missing games and lose interest, i wonder if they will make any changes to get back support. I remember Auz complaining that their supporters are losing interest. and for some reason all this extra rugby is approved… doesnt make much sense.
I sure as hell dont mind missing a few games. Even if its my own team. And knowing that the players play too much rugby is annoying as well.
8 Nov 2011, 11:40 am
International rugby has become something of an irritation.
Countries like SA, France, England etc with massive player pools have to thin them down to 15 players to compete with countries who barely have enough local players for a first class domestic competition (many even don’t have that.)
To pick 15 quality athletic rugby players and coaching them well, you could easily compete and even win bigger unions. So, it is not an issue of quality.
Point is, you could choose at least 4 bok teams from SA which would all be on international standard (same for France and England), but you have to choose 15 players, and so doing ignore compatibility and style-of-play.
There are players in the CC 1st Division who’s better than some of our SuperRugby players, but is overlooked for a number of reasons.
We have too many players and too little opportunity to reach higher levels… because our opposition has too few players to expand.
Perhaps it is time for SARU to make a bold move an merge League into the organization… and perhaps even Grid Iron. All rugby codes under one roof and giving opportunity for more players to reach the highest level.
8 Nov 2011, 11:43 am
will sanzar become arsanza?
has a certain ‘ring’ to it.
8 Nov 2011, 11:47 am
Ring indeed.
8 Nov 2011, 11:52 am
@Puma(Puma)-91:
Stupid sharkievarkie, you just don’t get it do you … shooting your mouth off about the 35,000 thousand that went to watch the guppies get moered by the Saders in London saying that it was the biggest crowd outside of a test match … ffs stop talking kak, did you watch this weekends match between Stare and Clermont? 80,000 pitched up for a match that is not even a final.
60,000 at the den for a final is not a big deal and the CC is there as a feeder tournament for super rugby.
8 Nov 2011, 12:03 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-105:
sanzaar??
8 Nov 2011, 12:04 pm
@Jeez(Jeez)-103: Agree Jeez,
Think after a few years it will change. Have no doubt. Can’t see this schedule lasting.
8 Nov 2011, 12:08 pm
@Roar my Lions …. Currie Cup Champions 2011(RL)-107: Why do you find it necessary to insult people? I never insult you. So why do you feel the need to insult me when you can get your point across without it?
8 Nov 2011, 12:09 pm
A reduced Currie Cup is going to really make it hard for players to make a living playing Rugby in SA.
A guy playing 1st Division Currie Cup but who isn’t playing Super XV or Test Rugby is going to have to spend weekdays selling photocopiers again.
So he’ll look at that path and then look at playing 2nd Div in France for 70 000 Euros/year and choose France.
8 Nov 2011, 12:10 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-105: Probably will.
Howzit Ranger, how you doing mate?
8 Nov 2011, 12:11 pm
@Frik(frikodel)-111: Exactly. We will see more of our players moving overseas and playing there.
Saru really never thought much about this it seems.
8 Nov 2011, 12:18 pm
@Puma(Puma)-110:
hehehe
its his currie cup swagger…a bit like one’s first melrose experience…
8 Nov 2011, 12:20 pm
@Puma(Puma)-110: you mean become like you, belittle, demean and insult people ina nice way.
Like this …
The only way for this new tournament to make sense is if we only allocate Castle test matches to the Lions, Bulls and WP rugby unions. There is no way that the other unions are able to sell out their stadiums based on the rubbish attendances they have had the past 4 years … not one sell out in Durban or in the Bloem!!!! The people of those cities should never get to host a big match featuring the All Blacks and Aussies … rather let PE hos a match ahead of those rugby apathetic cities. hehehe
8 Nov 2011, 12:20 pm
@rangerman
Sanzaar is a bit closer to sanzar but I like arsanza more, you should copyright it.
Hate this new name by the way.
8 Nov 2011, 12:24 pm
Are there any other good south african rugby websites? Could somebody please name a few…?
8 Nov 2011, 12:26 pm
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-114: I can understand you loving Bakkies while he was still playing but loving him when he is finished as a player raises many questions.
8 Nov 2011, 12:27 pm
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-114: hehe.
I don’t even recall saying it was the biggest crowd outside of a test match. I doubt I ever said that. Cause we get bigger crowds here in South Africa watching SuperRugby. I probably said it was the biggest crowd to watch SuperRugby in the Northen Hemisphere. Cause there has had never been a game played there. Whatever, it is just daft to take that serious . I just mostly ignore childish stuff like that mate…..hehehe.
What do you think of the new SuperRugby Schedule and our new Schedule for RC?
I am looking forward to England touring here but really it comes at a bad time. Wish we had finished SuperRugby first then concentrate on Internationals. Fair on the Bok players that way too.
8 Nov 2011, 12:27 pm
@Jeez(Jeez)-117:
supersport does good sport coverage, sport24 and rugby365 are also good…
8 Nov 2011, 12:28 pm
@Puma(Puma)-119: Northen = Northern
8 Nov 2011, 12:29 pm
@Jeez(Jeez)-117: Rugby-Talk.com. SuperSport. Sport24. Rugby365. Ruggaworld.
There are many more. Those are the best though.
8 Nov 2011, 12:32 pm
@Jeez(Jeez)-117:
http://www.ruggaworld.com
It’s Pissant’s site filled with local and international coaches, sports scientists, sports psychologists, player’s managers and general mug punters…
8 Nov 2011, 12:32 pm
@Roar my Lions …. Currie Cup Champions 2011(RL)-115: You are extremely juvenile.
8 Nov 2011, 12:34 pm
@bryce_in_oz(bryce_in_oz)-123: Good site that Bryce. Also Rugby-Talk has most of that and not just news on rugby but many other topics about rugby.
Both sites are top class.
8 Nov 2011, 12:39 pm
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-92:
oh boy, i hear the comments from you at every start of the Nations cup.
NZ well be rested, they will be better prepared, the boks have a longer plane trip, the boks have injuries
8 Nov 2011, 12:39 pm
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-126:
blah, fkn blah fkn blah
8 Nov 2011, 12:40 pm
@Puma(Puma)-124: No I was being serious, the new SARU CEO must award all future Castle rugby matches to only 3 cities … I mean it is a FACT that Durban and Bloem cannot sell out their stadiums and that does not look good on tv. Rather reward PE with a Castle match every 2nd yearif need be and let the other cities (Rustenburg, Polokwane, Durban, Bloen and ex Nelspruit) fight for the NH EOYT matches.
Nothing juvenile about talkins sense, now is there.
8 Nov 2011, 12:41 pm
of I forgot the hehehe and the LOL.
8 Nov 2011, 12:41 pm
@Puma(Puma)-124:
He’s easily the biggest poeth Lions supporter here. Its amazing how one person can take the gloss off a great CC campaign.
Almost makes you want to retract what you said about the Lions win being good for SA rugby. Wont let that poeth change my mind though.
@Roar my Lions …. Currie Cup Champions 2011(RL)-118: Yes you poeth.
8 Nov 2011, 12:48 pm
@John Galt(John Galt)-130: you talk with a lisp … hehehe
8 Nov 2011, 12:48 pm
@Roar my Lions …. Currie Cup Champions 2011(RL)-128: You have a good point. Stadiums that don’t get full house for Tests should not get a test.
I personally would like to see Soccer City (FNB) get all the tests that are played up in the highveld. Was spectacular to see 95 000 supporters watching a rugby game.
PE was next best last year even if it only holds 45 000. Brilliant atmosphere.
Altitude is our weapon against overseas teams so yes, more tests played against ABs/Oz there the better. Must be FNB though. Brilliant stadium and holds the most. Doubt it will happen though.
8 Nov 2011, 12:52 pm
@John Galt(John Galt)-130: I don’t take things like that really serious John.
What you think of our (Sharks) draw for SuperRugby? I think it will be tough.
We play Bulls and Stormers in a row and away from home. Then Lions at the tank next with Reds the following week. Going to be tough. All good teams. Then if we get two of our games against our conference teams away early it could be a good thing. Not sure it could be.
We travel after the Reds game. That is a good thing we get away from the humidity. We back in April.
8 Nov 2011, 12:53 pm
NZ All Blacks
the only team able to play their fourth choice 1st 5/8 and win the WC doing so
8 Nov 2011, 12:56 pm
@poppa69(poppa69)-134: Yip and you not lying there at all…..hehehe. That is something to brag about Poppa…lol.
Who would have thought Donald will win you the world cup and not Carter?
Okay I am off to lunch. Catch up later. Cheers mate.
8 Nov 2011, 12:56 pm
@poppa69(poppa69)-134: “fourth choice 1st 5/8″
Why can’t you Kiwis just say “flyhalf” without sounding like a mathsturbator?
8 Nov 2011, 12:56 pm
@poppa69(poppa69)-134: well for the one millionth time congratulation kiwi … Bill is yours, finally
8 Nov 2011, 13:08 pm
SA Springboks.
The only team to have beaten the All Blacks in a RWC Final.
8 Nov 2011, 13:09 pm
@Gtown(Gtown)-138:
there ya go, thats at least something good to look back on.
8 Nov 2011, 13:09 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-136:
‘strue
8 Nov 2011, 13:11 pm
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-139:
just saying, bru…
8 Nov 2011, 13:11 pm
I like this, i like this a lot. Only kuk thing is the name.
Think they are going to to have to make the squads a bit bigger as more rugby will be played so players can be rested and such.
As for the Currie Cup, still love it, whats not to love, still going to be province against province, and we will get to see new players being blooded.
So what if its not all the big names, it will be brilliant watching these up and coming players playing their hearts out to try get into the main teams, and then those that are not pulling their weight in the Super 15 and Bok side drop back to provincial level is not performing.
I think this is a win win situation
GO RUGBY !!!!!!!!!
8 Nov 2011, 13:12 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-136:
Why?
Thats how i was bought up. In league the position was called flyhalf and in rugby the position was called 1st 5/8.
I played both games but now flyhalf is for both codes.
8 Nov 2011, 13:15 pm
@Gtown(Gtown)-141:
I know and its a good stat as well.
Just that seem to be lately alot of negativitiy on here.
People need to re focus and now look ahead. Forget the bad and remember the good.
8 Nov 2011, 13:15 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-5: Apologies, my statement in comment 102 was not correct.
However look at the bright side, while SA has 3 away Tests in a row, they have a bye in-between, plenty of time to rest and accommodate (unless they are coached by morons) and they kick off with the easiest opposition home and away.
With all due respect to Argentina, they are neither Blacks, nor Wallabies in terms of challenge, so they cancel any disadvantage in the first rounds. Plus SA then play at home while Blacks play in South Africa straight away from Argentina.
Now tell me, what is harder – play in Argentina, have a bye and then play in Australasia or play in Argentina and play in South Africa without any rest. Or Australia having to play in South Africa and then in Argentina without any rest as well.
You see, the schedule seems quite balanced, every team has some advantages and some disadvantages, no need for knee-jerk reaction.
8 Nov 2011, 13:16 pm
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-144:
I know,thats how i got through 2007 and 2009
8 Nov 2011, 13:20 pm
@Treehugger(Treehugger)-142: that’s the spirit sharkie.
8 Nov 2011, 13:20 pm
@Puma(Puma)-133:
I havent really had a good look at our draw but I will say that Im not a big fan of the S15 setup.
Far too drawn out and now it has a break in the middle of it, i reckon most people here will be bored with it come June.
8 Nov 2011, 13:25 pm
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-126: Plus, for years okes complained that Boks have a travel disadvantage having to fly eastwards to play in Australasia, now they will have to fly westwards to Argentina and then after a week rest eastwards to Australasia while Blacks AND Wallabies will fly eastwards to Argentina AND still eastwards without any rest to South Africa and guess what who has travel disadvantage now – the Boks again.
8 Nov 2011, 13:29 pm
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-144: @Hurricane(Hurricane)-146:
That’s the point, but it was also a reaction to old poopiepants :rolleyes:
Not sure what to think of the new format other than looking forward to it!
off topic… it’s k-a-k people… K-A-K
8 Nov 2011, 13:33 pm
@Nils(Nils)-149: Don’t be crazy – they fly West to Argentina then West again to Australia. Remember the world is round not flat so no need togo West then East.
8 Nov 2011, 13:35 pm
@Roar my Lions …. Currie Cup Champions 2011(RL)-151: In that it’s even easier for South Africa – all travelling west and never east. I just doubt they will hang around in Australia for 2 weeks but who knows.
8 Nov 2011, 13:36 pm
maybe two conferences?
sarge (sa and argies)
newarse (guess who?)
8 Nov 2011, 13:40 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-153: Right. 2 conferences. Newarse and Arsa.
With promotion/demotion.
8 Nov 2011, 13:55 pm
@Roar my Lions …. Currie Cup Champions 2011(RL)-118:
sacré bleu! mon dieu! would you really blaspheme our great bakkies just to get even?
no! oh no! my eyes deceive me….no,no,no you did not say that…bakkies will rise again…mark my words…
@Puma(Puma)-119:
its hard to say wrt the s15 really. i grudgingly sort of took to it last season so will probably feel the same way next season especially considering the extended break inbetween.
as for the four nations, i suspect argentina may well regress if they go through a baptism of eternal wooden spoons, similar to italy in the 6 nations. if this happens then whats the point.
maybe i’m getting old but i fell some nostalgia for tests of yesteryear, as well perhaps we’re diluting the value of the rivalry with nz and oz by playing them so much these days.
8 Nov 2011, 13:56 pm
SANZAR missed a trick here. Samoa showed enuff in the RWC to be included in a toiurno as well. THey should have included Samoa to make it 5 teams and we only play each other once sames as 6N.
Anyway am looking forward to the new tourno format. I hope the Argies compete!!
8 Nov 2011, 14:07 pm
@race of tan(race of tan)-156: After this WC I really don’t care much of that Samoan thugs. Let the NZ’s bleed them dry for the S15.
8 Nov 2011, 14:13 pm
Tuna – Agree. If F Steny hadnt got injured we would have gotten to the semis.
8 Nov 2011, 14:16 pm
@Nils(Nils)-145:
no, its a shorter turn around distance for nz t to trave from argentina to play sa in sa. this mean far less of the east travelling distance and acclimatisation time to cause jetlag.
he’s right, this is a sshit schedule which once again favours them but i blame only our incompetent ffucking saru admin officials for being as good as our ffucking gov ministers these days, meaning they’re fast asleep 4/5th’s of the time, and not the ffucking kiwis for just being awake and doing their usual greedy, selfish maximum for the all blacks.
in short we really just screww ourselves more often than it being a case of being screwed by those basturds.
8 Nov 2011, 14:17 pm
@Roar my Lions …. Currie Cup Champions 2011(RL)-151: in latvia, world is square
8 Nov 2011, 14:20 pm
@Nils(Nils)-149: Nils think South Africa may have to start with more travel. Doubt we will fly to Argentina and then onto Oz. This year only. Cause we playing Oz first up and in Perth. If we fly to Arg then to Perth the flying time would be a monster. Lucky we have a bye before we travel to Perth. So thinking we will fly straight home after the Arg game.
Flying to Buenos Aires (West Bound) takes 11 and half hours from Joburg. Coming back home to Joburg (East Bound) only 9 hours. Then another 9 hours to Perth from there. So think we will come home and train for a week here and head for Perth. Doubt we will head straight from Buenos Aires to Perth and sit our bye there. Not sure the exact flying time to Perth from Buenos Aires but think it is about 14 hours to Sydney then add another 4 and a half hours to Perth with a change over 18 or 19 hours flying time to Perth for Boks. So think will come home first then fly from here East Bound. Only cause of the bye we have. Next year could be different.
8 Nov 2011, 14:23 pm
Puma – All this rugby scares me. How much can these players bodies take!! It may have been a better idea to play the 4N games during the S15 similar to UK. How are the Puma players going to have a rest they all play in the French leagues!!
8 Nov 2011, 14:24 pm
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-159: You right flying from Arg to SA is a quick flight.
8 Nov 2011, 14:24 pm
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-159: “no, its a shorter turn around distance for nz t to trave from argentina to play sa in sa. this mean far less of the east travelling distance and acclimatisation time to cause jetlag.”
You sound like Blacks are based in Argentina, so just a quick trip to SA. Maybe they somehow have to get there? Let’s say by flying. Eastwards. Play Pumas and then fly straight away. Eastwards again. And only then rest week after another flying eastwards home.
While Boks fly westwards, play Pumas and then fly home to rest.
8 Nov 2011, 14:26 pm
@Roar my Lions …. Currie Cup Champions 2011(RL)-151:
not if its nz playing argentina and then sa.
they’ll go a long distance west (which is less debilitating) to arg and then return a shorter distance east to sa (which means less of the jetlag effect) and then east again to get home (which makes no ffukken diff because the comp will already be over for them).
and all of this after a bye week anyway.
jeezuz! the more i think about this the more i get reallly pissed off!
8 Nov 2011, 14:26 pm
@Puma(Puma)-163: Hi, Puma.
Don’t you think if flight from Arg to SA is a quick one then flight from SA to Arg is the same? and plus for your guys it’s easier path having to fly westwards? I mean cmon, for years flying eastwards was an argument for travel disadvantage, now what – it’s turbo reverse?
8 Nov 2011, 14:27 pm
@race of tan(race of tan)-162: We playing the Tests from NH during S15. Crazy. We playing England in 3 tests during the S15. Super15 stops for 3 or so weeks for that then carries on after. Daft really. 4Nations now known as The Rugby Championship will be played after S15 finishes. Think if we have a eoyt we will be sending our youngsters.
I love tours and think they should come back, but something has to give. Cause the rugby is way too much.
8 Nov 2011, 14:32 pm
@Nils(Nils)-166: No Nils. Going against the wind (West Bound) takes 2 hours longer. Coming with the wind behind is 2 hours less. (East Bound) From Arg that is.
Same applies going to Oz and Nz. East Bound quicker and West Bound longer. Cause of the wind factor.
Journey from South Africa to Arg is easy. Only 5 hours behind. Time Zone for us won’t be a factor going there like it is going to Oz or Nz. Will be a huge jet lag for Nz and Oz going to Arg cause of the time zone factor.
8 Nov 2011, 14:38 pm
@Puma(Puma)-168: So you presume, wind always blows eastwards. Fine.
I just hardly understand how travelling across the globe for one team is a disadvantage despite having a rest in-between while it is not the case for others even without any rest period.
8 Nov 2011, 14:41 pm
The answer to this would be for each of the 4 nations to hold the whole tourney in each country every 4 years. Would make sense with the travel factor for every country.
Like a mini world cup. We would fill our stadiums not sure if Oz or Nz would though. Something to think about.
Though doubt Oz would go for it. They need their stadiums full each year. They need the rugby right there not watching on tv. So probably will never happen.
8 Nov 2011, 14:44 pm
hey hey – some games we might even win!
8 Nov 2011, 14:45 pm
@Nils(Nils)-169: It is a fact. That is how the wind blows and it takes that time flying each way. I fly both ways on business many times and it takes that much shorter or longer depending which way you flying. Fact bro.
8 Nov 2011, 14:49 pm
@Puma(Puma)-172: guys its gotta do with the worlds rotation…not the wind
8 Nov 2011, 14:55 pm
@Puma(Puma)-170:
i have also been in favour of such a format as this would then also have the added advantage of the comp only taking place once every four years in each country so the home crowds will have built up a bigger anticipation for the stadium games as well a bigger vibe around the country imo.
@Nils(Nils)-166:
@Puma(Puma)-168:
not only the travel time being skewered, we should also take into account the fact that its argued that going east and acclimatising one’s body clock to rise ealier is harder than going west and acclimatising one’s body clock to rise later.
its a double whammy for us compared to anzac who just hop over for their home and away fixtures.
8 Nov 2011, 14:57 pm
@race of tan(race of tan)-156: screw those filty basasterds! if we never play those filty kiwis in between world cups it will be just fine, hell even the kiwis do not want to play those filthy pricks.
8 Nov 2011, 15:04 pm
@race of tan(race of tan)-158: I don’t think it was foul play that injured F.Steyn, was it?
Samoa in the tournament would be great from a rugby perspective but I’m not sure it makes sense financially.
8 Nov 2011, 15:04 pm
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-174: Yes I would like each country to hold the whole tourney once every 4 years. It will bring back the hunger for tours. I personally think each country would benefit well from it being held once every 4 years in their country. Supporters would tour that country holding the tourney. Would be great.
Think Nz and Oz going to Arg will suffer jet lag. Think Nz are 16 hours ahead of Arg in time also going East Bound. They will suffer huge jet lag buddy. From Arg onto SA not as much. If they fly to SA first then onto Arg then not as bad at all. Only flying time will be longer. Every year it will alternate no doubt.
8 Nov 2011, 15:08 pm
@Tuna(Tuna)-157: I feel the same. They were punching some of our boys at the back of the head. Ref just not doing anything about it either. Have lost plenty respect for Samoan Rugby.
8 Nov 2011, 15:08 pm
@ufo(ufo)-3:
We’ll cope just fine with the travel, no excuses from the world champions camp.
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-18:
a very early whinge, excuses aready?
8 Nov 2011, 15:09 pm
Fuckthat.
The dirty sumbitch moans can have their own tournament for head hunters.
8 Nov 2011, 15:09 pm
@Roar my Lions …. Currie Cup Champions 2011(RL)-175:
We love our Samoan brothers, they were a try away from cleaning up your boys up, some respect please.
8 Nov 2011, 15:11 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-180:
and Bakkies can stomp, headbutt, eye gouge etc but thats ok?
8 Nov 2011, 15:11 pm
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-174: The problem is that Aus/NZ is close to each other while SA and Argentina are far away. Unfortunately, it has nothing to do with SANZAR, it’s geography.
At least SA have easier start and and easier finish to compensate any travelling problems.
8 Nov 2011, 15:12 pm
@Puma(Puma)-172: OK, I believe you.
8 Nov 2011, 15:15 pm
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-181: SARU used tpo invite them here to play some rugby matches – that will never happen again …. count on it. It would be better for us to invite decent humans beings like the Fijians or Tongans to tour ……………………….. not your filty Samoan cousins.
8 Nov 2011, 15:16 pm
Where do the Ab’s play in SA next year, i’m really hoping its Loftus.
8 Nov 2011, 15:16 pm
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-182:
Do me a favour.
Go and whatch the moan filth in the world cup quarters in 95.
A more disgustiong collection of “players” on a field you will not find.
They don’t seem to be improving.
If you love them so much you play them every year.
Oh, I forgot, they don’t try and maim their kiwi brothers…
8 Nov 2011, 15:16 pm
@Roar my Lions …. Currie Cup Champions 2011(RL)-185:
Botha no better but I suppose thats different?
8 Nov 2011, 15:17 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-187:
double standards buddy
8 Nov 2011, 15:18 pm
@Nils(Nils)-184: it’s not a fact at all fact is there are cells that blow East and West – depending on your latitude you can fly in either cell ……… sharkievarkie is just shooting his mouth off again ………….. and you are buying it.
8 Nov 2011, 15:19 pm
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-181: No respect for them at all. By the time their 15 got a red card jeepers they should have had at least another 3 out with red cards by that time. They were bloody filthy players that day mate.
From what I read one of the Samoans stood on Frans Steyns shoulder as well. Now not sure if that is how he got injured, but read it on all the blogs around. They were punching our boys at the back of the head. No need for thuggery in the game. They were targetting Burger, Fransie and Brussow the whole game. Brussow picked up a bruised rib in that game and to make it worse Vickerman slammed straight with a shoulder into his rib cage and never picked up a yellow card from Bryce either. Reffing in this past world cup was extremely poor.
I sure hope Boks never ever have to play Samoa ever again. Sad to say that as we helped them out before their last world cup letting them play some of our teams here. But hope we never help them out ever again. They are nothing but total thugs.
Anyhow thinking back to the Samoan and Oz quarter just brings back terrible memories of extremely bad reffing. So rather will forget it and think of all the rugby gonna be played next year.
8 Nov 2011, 15:19 pm
@Puma(Puma)-177: love the idea – just like the good old days of touring – but as we all know – it’s never gonna happen!
8 Nov 2011, 15:19 pm
@Puma(Puma)-177: Agree with you on both counts. Bring back tours and Boks definitely will not be the only ones suffering from jetlag. Just imagine – Blacks either fly shorter way and LOSE WHOLE DAY on the clock or fly longer way, lose just a few hours on the clock but sit WHOLE DAY IN DAMN PLANE.
No walk in the park either. So IMHO, schedule is +/- fair, SA have tough task watered down with rest period while Blacks/Wallabies have slighty less tough task but concentrated in time without a rest.
As for Argentina, being remote member like South Africa, they too get home games in the finish to compensate earlier hardships.
8 Nov 2011, 15:20 pm
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-189:
not at all.
buddy.
go watch it and tell me if you have every seen behaviour like thst on a rugby field.
until then, you can keep your filthy moans.
we want nothing to do with them.
8 Nov 2011, 15:21 pm
@Puma(Puma)-191:
Fair enough Puma but then you would have to concede Botha is no different, you can’t have it both ways mate.
8 Nov 2011, 15:21 pm
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-186: Think they going to play at Soccer City.
8 Nov 2011, 15:22 pm
Samoan discipline would improve over time if they were admitted to a major tournament, just like the French discipline is now the best in the world with the least no. of yellow/red cards conceded in the past decade.
A SH Five Nations comp is a pipe dream I suppose. They beat the Australians at home, gave SA and Wales a good game so if they’re not going to be admitted now it’s probably never going to happen.
8 Nov 2011, 15:22 pm
@Roar my Lions …. Currie Cup Champions 2011(RL)-190: Just because I have no idea how winds blow down south so I believe in opinions of those who live there and fly frequently. If you have ideas, I’ll listen to you, too.
8 Nov 2011, 15:23 pm
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-195: Yes agree. But he cleaned this year.
8 Nov 2011, 15:25 pm
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-179:
of course you would cope because you’re not travelling the same amount that sa is…thats the ffucking point of the whinge…at least have the decency to pay attention, sir…
8 Nov 2011, 15:26 pm
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-200: OK, how do you think the 100% fair schedule would look like?
8 Nov 2011, 15:26 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-194:
and you really think they have a lot of respect for South African rugby have you ever wondered in 95′ why they played like that, I wouldnt have thought it would have been that hard to get fired up put yourself in their shoes, that is the past though and they need to move on, I rewatched the game there was some niggle but it certainly wasn’t what you’re making it out to be.
8 Nov 2011, 15:26 pm
@Nils(Nils)-198: I fly to Oz frequently and to Arg and Chile on business. Believe me it is always the same everytime I fly to those countries.
@Roar my Lions …. Currie Cup Champions 2011(RL)-190: How many times have you flown to Australia and how many times have you flown to Argentina and Chile? I have so many times and am talking with experience. I am right you can ask many that fly those routes.
8 Nov 2011, 15:27 pm
@Roar my Lions …. Currie Cup Champions 2011(RL)-190: yes my brother varkie there are trade winds ect but the biggest factor is the rotation of the frikkin planet – a pilot told me this on the way to Brazil.
8 Nov 2011, 15:27 pm
@Puma(Puma)-199:
Fair call he was better this year
8 Nov 2011, 15:29 pm
@gr8 white(gr8 white)-204: Exactly. Just ignore the Lions oke. He always just stirs nonsense.
8 Nov 2011, 15:30 pm
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-200:
you whinge every day all day, I don’t differentiate between your whining I don’t have the time, that said just go out and try and win the thing the draw has been made it is what it is
8 Nov 2011, 15:30 pm
@Puma(Puma)-203: How’s Durban spring?
8 Nov 2011, 15:31 pm
@Puma(Puma)-203: twice to Aussie and 4 times to Europe, once to Canada, once to Uganda and once Kenya, once to Namibia and once to Zim … never to South America.
You probably also believe that the loo spins in different directions depending on which hemisphere you are in too?
8 Nov 2011, 15:31 pm
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-202: got to agree, it didn’t look that bad, a very physical test match
8 Nov 2011, 15:32 pm
@Puma(Puma)-206: would be a pertinant comment if we still went about in tall ships…suppose he’ll be telling us the world is flat next!
8 Nov 2011, 15:33 pm
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-210:
You never agree with me
8 Nov 2011, 15:35 pm
@Nils(Nils)-208: Durban is extreamly unplesant this time of the year but December and January is the worse! humidity is the killer.
and as a did you know ….. did you know that sweat is just a diluted form of pee? yes sharkievarkies walk around this time of the year covered from head to toe in pee.
8 Nov 2011, 15:36 pm
@gr8 white(gr8 white)-192: Would be great if it could happen.
Also doubt it would ever happen.
8 Nov 2011, 15:36 pm
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-212: I’m making an exception for the good of the game
8 Nov 2011, 15:36 pm
damnation …..thats a lot of rugby gents…
huge squads and lots of rotation the answer…
fark me
8 Nov 2011, 15:38 pm
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-215:
lol
8 Nov 2011, 15:38 pm
@gr8 white(gr8 white)-211: hehehehe….
8 Nov 2011, 15:38 pm
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-202:
why did they play like that?
if you think there was nothing more “than a bit of niggle” then you are either lying about watching it or don’t know what you are talking about.
I especially love the bit where Umuggers older brother puts in his third high, late and dangerous hit on Andre Joubert and then high fives his mates whilst Joubert lies on the ground surrounded by doctors.
moan scum.
I would be quite happy if we never played the dirty coconut tacklers again.
8 Nov 2011, 15:41 pm
Will be superb to have a different format, double headers, new venues etc good for SH rugby, Ab’s desperate to be the first ” rugby championship” winners
8 Nov 2011, 15:42 pm
@Roar my Lions …. Currie Cup Champions 2011(RL)-213:
8 Nov 2011, 15:42 pm
@grant10(grant10)-216: We will need squads of 40 I think. Of equal quality. Going to be tough.
This will test us how much depth we have in each conference. The conference with the least amount of depth will suffer if they pick up injuries.
Then some with the most amount of Boks will suffer more. Those players just keep playing in the June Internationals without the 3 week lay off. Not sure what saru was thinking.
8 Nov 2011, 15:43 pm
Truth is Arg, SA and Abs are getting dicked with the travel next year.
The Ausies have it VERY easy by comparison.
SA travel
SA-ARG-BYE-AUS-NZ-BYE-SA-SA
AUS travel
AUS-NZ-BYE-AUS-AUS-BYE-SA-ARG
NZ travel
AUS-NZ-BYE-ARG-SA-BYE-NZ-NZ
ARG travel
SA-ARG-BYE-NZ-AUS-BYE-ARG-ARG
8 Nov 2011, 15:44 pm
@Nils(Nils)-183:
funny how the problem of geography is conveniently south africa’s alone to deal/suffer with.
8 Nov 2011, 15:44 pm
@Puma(Puma)-214: yes – its money that is the driving force now – the sentimentality and camaraderie are completely out of the game…very sad…I miss the old amature days…not as much rugby but a ton more passion and you looked forward to every game.
8 Nov 2011, 15:45 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-219
my post referred to two games, the first part about 95′ perhaps the Samoans felt the white South African players were racist and didn’t think much of black people so a few cheap shots were justified, I thought the 2011 game had niggle but wasn’t over the top like you are suggesting, I don’t need to lie.
8 Nov 2011, 15:46 pm
@Puma(Puma)-222: I see Rassie has not renewed contracts with Pieter Louw,JD Moller and C Jantjies…..
Sharks should sign P Louw…..hard working and effective player.
Yip….at least 40 Puma …..although 45 probably better
Glad we got Joe Pietersen back…..and I suppose even G Van DEN HEEVER will add some value
8 Nov 2011, 15:48 pm
was chatting to some okes at the gym…..seems a lot of us are a bit gatvol at the state of the game…..seems it is all about money and quantity these days
8 Nov 2011, 15:48 pm
@John Galt(John Galt)-223:
It will all even itself out, there will be no complaints about travel out of NZ, much like the Crusaders this year not a peep.
8 Nov 2011, 15:52 pm
@grant10(grant10)-227: You need to talk to your Shark mate. I have no connection. Pieter Louw would be a good buy (I think) the more we have the better. We all might be dipping into our u21 players……haha. Heck wish Plum would play some of our youngster in the coming S15.
Agree squads of 45 would be even better.
Agree this rugby schedule is just greed from saru.
8 Nov 2011, 15:52 pm
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-226:
if they felt that the nasty white sonth africans were racists they shouldn’t have played.
Every time those poeslaps play us they try and injure players.
Forget it.
I would be happy never to play the basterauds again.
8 Nov 2011, 15:52 pm
@grant10(grant10)-227:
Conrad’s going to France.
8 Nov 2011, 15:56 pm
@grant10(grant10)-227: Ja P Louw is a grafter…but the sharks need midfield first and formost and then an effective openside fetcher…that would remedy the most glaring problems…and coaching staff with the apprication for 15man rugby…not saying Plum is **** but he lacks in imagination and HRE only knows one style of rugby…the good old crash it up and hope for the best!
8 Nov 2011, 15:57 pm
@gr8 white(gr8 white)-225: Agree totally.
I would drop the world cup like a hat if we could have rugby tours again. fairer and a lot more exciting. You mix with the supporters coming in and the tours used to last for 3 months back then. Probably a bit long now but just bring them back. Way to go.
For now we have England that will tour this year, but the timing is wrong. During our S15. Should always finish a tourney first before starting another. Especially the first proper tour since ABs came in 96. Of course Lions in 2009. Just talking about one country touring.
8 Nov 2011, 15:57 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-231:
Fair enough but that might explain it perhaps you’ve never though about it from the other side.
8 Nov 2011, 15:58 pm
@Puma(Puma)-234: this year. Meant next year.
8 Nov 2011, 15:58 pm
@grant10(grant10)-227:
Good player that Plo? the guppies will be wise to buy a fetcher since Daniel is kak as a fetcher.
8 Nov 2011, 15:59 pm
@Puma(Puma)-234:
Agree WC is an 8 week snap shot lottery, an 8 week tour of Bokke country would be superb.
8 Nov 2011, 16:01 pm
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-224: That’s why Boks do not play overseas straight after home games, they have a week rest unlike opponents who usually travel to SA straight after home games.
Plus SA have games at altitude. Any previous travel disadvantage has been cancelled as soon as battle bruised opponents have climb some 3000 meters to play fresh as daisies hosts.
That’s called “compensation”.
It’s hardly NZ/Aus fault Boks coachs used to screw up things like accommodation after jetlag.
8 Nov 2011, 16:04 pm
@gr8 white(gr8 white)-233: We sure do need centres. Agree we don’t really have a openside fetcher. We have Botes but he is not in the class of a Brussow, Pocock and McCaw. Minnie is playing well there now as well.
Pity we lost some of our great centres and should have tried to hold onto Mostert.
8 Nov 2011, 16:07 pm
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-238: Agree and likewise if we toured Nz. Awesome. Would welcome the tours back, nothing quite like the old tours.
8 Nov 2011, 16:07 pm
@Puma(Puma)-234: Ja – I wonder if the NZ crowd would agree with your sentimentnow that they have Bill…I still remember as a kid going to the stadiums and watching the Lions tour and watching it on TV…the whole country was abuzz…now a days its oh the AB’s are in the country…tomorrow they are gone…yawn!~
8 Nov 2011, 16:10 pm
@Puma(Puma)-241:
@gr8 white(gr8 white)-242:
Get rid off the world cup, tours and test matches.
8 Nov 2011, 16:12 pm
@Puma(Puma)-240: Botes was good…sense his getting a little to long in the tooth now..KD, Kanko,JD and the huuman wrecking ball just arn’t good cleaners so I think even with a decent fetcher he would still struggle but at least you slow down the opposition ball. At least Bissie is a good cleaner but you need more than one to contribute…!
8 Nov 2011, 16:13 pm
@gr8 white(gr8 white)-242: I think now that they have finally won it back they won’t worry so much about it.
Tours are the way to go. I remember Lions here in 74. They bliksemed us good. But heck it got the adrenaline going. Just wanted them back the next year to have revenge……hahaha. Had to wait until 1980 for that. We had NZ next in 76 that was awesome too.
I miss the tours. So if we all did hold this Rugby Championship every 4 years it would be great. Like a tour but with other countries playing each other here too. Would be awesome. A pipe dream I know but it would solve the travelling factor for all sh countries. We would all benefit by holding it.
8 Nov 2011, 16:14 pm
@John Galt(John Galt)-223: One of the conditions of the SANZAR agreement that everyone trashes but doesn’t really understand is that we play our last 2 games at home, every year.
Which is great, don’t you think?
Arg and NZ have it too this year, but it’s not guaranteed each year.
Also, if I read your schedule right, we, NZ and Arg play their last 2 games at home. How does that work?
Who do arg play at home second to last?
8 Nov 2011, 16:14 pm
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-243: Agree. Way to go.
8 Nov 2011, 16:14 pm
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-243: and replace with what – S15?
8 Nov 2011, 16:17 pm
@David(David)-232: yes….good for him….Joe Pietersen is 1 of my favorites….looking forward to watching him again…
@gr8 white(gr8 white)-233: you okes definitley need a midfield! Ja….fetchers are worth there weight in gold…
@Roar my Lions …. Currie Cup Champions 2011(RL)-237: daniels is an 8 imo…..never a fetcher…
8 Nov 2011, 16:18 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-246: SA and Argies have last 2 home games alternately playing either Blacks or Wallabies.
8 Nov 2011, 16:19 pm
@gr8 white(gr8 white)-244: I know we need more. Doubt we will be getting any for next year. Would have loved to have had Brussow……lol.
8 Nov 2011, 16:21 pm
@grant10(grant10)-249: yip – KD is a 8
8 Nov 2011, 16:22 pm
Okay out of here now.
Cheers everyone.
8 Nov 2011, 16:23 pm
stormers are going to miss F Louw big time….that is a massive,huge loss…..i heard we believed we had Brussow sorted, then let F Louw go…..now we up a creek with no paddle…..Schalk must play at 7…..vermeulen at 8……6 ?????
8 Nov 2011, 16:23 pm
@Puma(Puma)-253: cheers
8 Nov 2011, 16:23 pm
My team for 2012:
15 – F Steyn
14 – JPP
11 – Habana
13 – J Fourie
12 – J de Jongh (vc)
10 – Lambie
9 – Hougaard
8 – Alberts
7 – Burger
6 – Brussouw
5 – F vd Merwe
4 – Bekker (c)
3 – Jannie
2 – Bissy
1 – Beast
16 – Chilliman
17 – CJ vd Linde
18 – Guthro / Spies
19 – J Smith
20 – C McCleod
21 – J div
22 – Aplon
8 Nov 2011, 16:24 pm
Carr is a rare talent….but an 8…..Koster no fetcher an 8…Kolisi a 7….
Fenton wells at 6? At super 15 level?
MMMMM???
8 Nov 2011, 16:25 pm
@grant10(grant10)-254: Schalla can apparently play openside also, I believe.
Isn’t that where our next coach thinks he’s best?
8 Nov 2011, 16:27 pm
@Helen(Helen)-256: ELTON jANTJES AT 10…..GUTHRO TO START AT 1…..BEAST ON BENCH.
i CAN LIVE WITH THE REST
Fark…sorry caps
8 Nov 2011, 16:27 pm
@Helen(Helen)-258: dont remind me!!!
Gotta run
outta here
8 Nov 2011, 16:28 pm
@Nils(Nils)-201:
well how bout you guys split two away games before and after one of your byes for starters? and then even split your long distance travel (meaning those destinations furthest from you) over two of the legs, say maybe the 1st and 3rd legs?
yes this wouldnt be fair but its what we have to do as we’re away before and after our first bye and then we’re traveling long on our first and second legs of the comp.
8 Nov 2011, 16:28 pm
@Puma(Puma)-251: yip sharks are paying a shite load for what they have got already…hence hanging on to pensioners and the likes as they suppliment their package with their pension payouts!…think its gonna be a fraustrating year ahead for us…the Lions might not have as many stars but have a good balance between fforwards and backs…probably tha the best balance of all the SA teams…maybe not the strongest but no weakness like the Stormers with their tight 5 or the sharks with their 9-10 and 12&13.
8 Nov 2011, 16:29 pm
@grant10(grant10)-254: it seems that Kolisi is the flavour of the month in CPT … so Burger will revert to 6 with Kolisi at 7 and Vermeulen at 8. Very unbalanced loose trio.
Better to tell Burger to bugger off then move Vermeulen to 7 and Kolisi to 8 then bring in a proper fetcher, maybe Carr.
8 Nov 2011, 16:35 pm
@grant10(grant10)-259: Lambie at 10 – Jantjie on the bench…me thinks he needs a bit more experience yet…but he’ll be ready in a year or so…Carlos will coach him well! Agree with Guthro…technically a better scrummager than Beast and Beast has not been so good this year…off the pace…celebrity status gone to his head!
8 Nov 2011, 16:39 pm
@Roar my Lions …. Currie Cup Champions 2011(RL)-263: Kolisi is a prospect but still has a far road to go
8 Nov 2011, 16:42 pm
London -The International Rugby Board said on Tuesday it was mulling a change to disciplinary procedures after being prevented from acting upon evidence of serious foul play during last month’s World Cup final.
A statement from the IRB said the body was considering increasing the length of the window in which individuals can be cited following an incident involving France’s Aurelien Rougerie and New Zealand skipper Richie McCaw.
Television footage appeared to show France centre Rougerie raking his hand across McCaw’s face as the All Blacks captain lay trapped on the floor.
However, because the footage only emerged more than 36 hours after the completion of the match, the IRB’s citing commissioner Scott Nowland was unable to act on the evidence.
The IRB said on Tuesday it was now considering increasing the 36-hour window.
“The International Rugby Board can confirm that no action can be taken to initiate a citing case following an alleged act of foul play during the Rugby World Cup 2011 Final on 23 October,” the IRB statement said.
“Mr Nowland has determined that he cannot cite the alleged act of foul play as the footage emerged outside the citing period and he is unable to bring the matter within the exceptional circumstances provisions contained in the Tournament Disciplinary Rules which deal principally with mistaken identity and where further time is required to identify a player who may have committed an act of foul play.
“Both Unions have been advised of the outcome.
“The IRB and Rugby World Cup Limited take all acts of foul play seriously.
“The ongoing review of Regulation 17 governing the disciplinary process will give consideration to Tournament Rules and IRB Regulations to consider either extending the citing periods or widening the remit of the exceptional circumstance provisions to deal with the emergence of evidential materials following the elapse of the citing period.”
when it happens to a kiwi
8 Nov 2011, 16:44 pm
‘Hands off our winning recipe’
Thu, 03 Nov 2011 23:09
As was the case with the player upheavals, the Golden Lions Rugby Union went through some rough times before finding the right coaching combination.
In the past week the hard work of the last two years was rewarded with a number of titles and decorations.
The Lions scooped three categories at the South African Rugby Union’s annual awards ceremony this week, after ending 12 years of heartache when they beat the Sharks (42-16) in the Currie Cup Final last week.
They were named Team of the Year, their coach, John Mitchell, was awarded the Coach of the Year title and their captain, Josh Strauss, was named Currie Cup Premier Division Player of the Year.
It is thus not surprising then that GLRU President Kevin de Klerk plans on jealously guarding his union’s winning combination – especially their coaching staff.
De Klerk, in Part Two of his exclusive and all-encompassing interview with rugby365.com, spoke about the backroom staff that helped turn a near bankrupt entity into one of the country’s most popular outfits. (Read Part One of the interview here!)
De Klerk has made no secret of the fact that he will not easily release head coach Mitchell from the remainder of his contract. And the same goes for the rest of the backroom staff.
“Carlos [Spencer, the backline coach] has been signed on for the same period as [John ] Mitchell [head coach], as well as Wayne Taylor [conditioning coach]… they are with us till the end of 2013, with options to renew,” De Klerk told this website
He added: “Johan Ackermann is also there [as forwards coach].”
Although Mitchell has repeatedly been linked to the Bok job coaching shortlist, the Lions mentor told this website that he was not available.
“I will not apply,” was Mitchell’s forthright answer when we spoke to him about a position to be vacated by Peter de Villiers in December. When asked for a reason, he simply replied: “I’m not prepared to share that.”
Asked about the unbelievable energy created by the coaching team, De Klerk waxed lyrical about his backroom boys.
“That energy has been building, and you could see that flowing over into the spectators last weekend [at the Currie Cup Final].
“It has been a while since we have seen the stadium [Ellis Park] so enthusiastic.”
De Klerk believes the real value of Mitchell was in his management style.
“Plaudits to John [Mitchell], he also surrounded himself with the right people,” the Lions President said.
“Wayne Taylor, the team’s conditioning is from the top drawer.
“I also think here of Carlos Spencer, a quiet, unassuming guy, but he does his job with the minimum of fuss. His [Spencer's] experience helped a lot,” De Klerk said of the 35-Test All Black.
“Our medical team, and Johan Ackermann with the forwards, who all did unbelievable work – it was certainly a collective effort.”
But it was not always smooth sailing, certainly not in the first year, for the now victorious Lions.
Back in mid-2009, just before De Klerk arrived at GLRU headquarters, then coach Eugene Eloff was forcefully removed from the position.
Hans Coetzee, his successor, saw the team suffer a record 10-74 loss to the B&I Lions in his first match and managed to win just seven of their 14 Currie Cup matches, finishing a lowly sixth on the eight-team tournament.
De Klerk admitted that they had to go through the pains of getting the right coaching structures, making a few mistakes along the line – with Hans Coetzee, **** Muir and, finally, Mitchell all taking charge of the team between June 2009 and July the next year.
However, Mitchell, in less than 18 months, has completely transformed the team.
“We used Jake White’s winning ways,” he said of a costly short-term exercise that yielded very little results.
“Then we used Hans Coetzee, who achieved some success,” De Klerk said, adding that Coetzee was thrown in at the deep end and may have lacked the experience required at the time.
“Given, his first game was against the B&I Lions, where we suffered a huge hammering.
“After that I was brought in.
“He [Hans Coetzee] made progress, but with all respect to Hans, he did not have experience at that level and his strength has always been the juniors, where he is back now, and achieving success again,” he said of the Lions team that won the SA Under-19 title last week.
“We realised [back in 2009] we needed the experience of a coach that has been at Super Rugby level… which is where John Mitchell came in.
“However, it was a process that we had to go through.”
De Klerk felt it was worth pausing and recognising the role Coetzee still played within the union’s structures – having ensured the Lions won two of the three most important provincial titles in South Africa; the Currie Cup and U19 competitions.
“Credit to those junior coaches and the value they add to the union,” De Klerk said, adding: “Hans Coetzee’s talent identification over the years has always been outstanding.
“He was involved in schools rugby for years, he knows and understands young players and knows what he must look for.
“Look at the young locks he fetched [from other provinces - Ettienne Oosthuizen, Leopards age-group teams since 2003, and Ruan Botha, Falcons age-group teams - both who were members of the SA U18 High Performance squad in 2010].
“In that regard he has done a great job for us. In fact, I believe that Under-19 team will develop into a great team one day.”
The ‘talent spotting’ doesn’t end there.
The Cronjé brothers, the Sharks halfback pairing of Guy and Ross, will also move to Johannesburg for the 2012 season.
The Lions have also recruited a second set of brothers in scrumhalf Whestley and centre Bradley Moolman, who represented the Leopards and Bulls U21 teams respectively this year. Other signings include more senior players like the Maties duo of lock Stephan Greeff and hooker Callie Visagie (the 2011 Varsity Cup Player of the Tournament), while lock Hendrik Roodt will join from Griquas.
While the Lions’ Under-21 team did not win anything, nor reach the final, De Klerk believes they can be proud of the progress they made in 2011.
“The Under-21s did not do too badly, losing in the semifinals, which is something [reaching the play-offs] which hasn’t happened in years.
“The Bulls [the eventual winners] had the better of us [in the U21 semifinals], with the six Currie Cup players they brought back in.
“You have to keep in mind that our Currie Cup-winning team had players like Elton Jantjies and Jaco Taute, who still qualify to play Under-21… imagine what a difference they could have made to that [junior] team.”
By Jan de Koning
8 Nov 2011, 16:46 pm
@grant10(grant10)-259:
Dude, Schalk has to be our opensider and I’d give Divvy another chance.
It irks me that we’ve lost one of our sons to Saracens. If Smitty is good enough for Saracens, he’s still good enough for the Boks, don’t you think?
8 Nov 2011, 16:46 pm
Now that the dust has settled, I hope what I said about the CC being played during a RWC makes more sense now.
8 Nov 2011, 16:48 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-269:
the boks aren’t going to play in the currie cup for the forseeable future.
what is your point?
8 Nov 2011, 16:49 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-270: Its shouldn’t be called the CC its should be called The Recreation Cup, so that history is not distorted
8 Nov 2011, 16:50 pm
whole WC was a bit of a shocker – feel sorry for NZ as they put on a good tournie but to be let down by the officialdom…too much whining and complaining by all about refs!
8 Nov 2011, 16:50 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-266:
Quite right eye gouging is as low as it gets, lets hope these attacks cease once McCaw is knighted.
8 Nov 2011, 16:53 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-271:
that’s puerile.
province “won” first few currie cups for playing attractive rugby and then won the next few against griquas.
distorted history lmfao.
go and cry to somebody cares.
you coming across sour like you did after the super 14 final year
8 Nov 2011, 16:53 pm
@gr8 white(gr8 white)-272:
Did you feel sorry for the French in 07′ after Barnesgate?
8 Nov 2011, 16:55 pm
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-273:
he won’t get knighted.
not yet anyway.
why do the rules have to change because a transgression against a kiwi has gone unpunished?
8 Nov 2011, 16:55 pm
@Roar my Lions …. Currie Cup Champions 2011(RL)-267: ja ja – you guys deserve it…fantastic turn around…but don’t get ahead of yourself…S15 still to come…you should do better but I don’t expect any SA franchise winning it next year.
8 Nov 2011, 16:59 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-276:
He will absolutely no doubt there, not sure you’ll have to ask the IRB (NZ rugby union)
8 Nov 2011, 17:02 pm
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-275: You get me wrong – only you guys where whining after 07…basically most of the sides including yourselves whined after 11…it just puts a sour taste in every ones mouth when the standard of refing is poor…and I’m not just refering to Mr Lawrence… **** happens but when it happens in a number of games and whn all the small unions leave the tournie bitching about the set up…it makes you wonder if it is at all worth it!?
8 Nov 2011, 17:02 pm
@gr8 white(gr8 white)-277: what is good is to see that the Lions are closing the gap off the field too – for far too long other unions have been abusing their equity partners money to screw the Lions and other unions.
8 Nov 2011, 17:02 pm
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-278:
thought as much.
8 Nov 2011, 17:04 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-266:
jeezuz!
wow!
wow!
so reechee’s knee to the french scrumhalfs face thus taking him out of the game completely is not in any way foul play?.
wow!
wow!
8 Nov 2011, 17:06 pm
@gr8 white(gr8 white)-279:
what specific reffing are you talking about outside of your 1/4 exit, surely not the Welsh game it was a spear tackle and a red?
8 Nov 2011, 17:06 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-276: check out your boy “burst condom” chilling with the OTHER dude who was caught with his pants down..
birds of a feather
8 Nov 2011, 17:06 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-274: Fact is CC shouldn’t be called CC in a world Cup year. Nor should it be called CC with the new changes.
8 Nov 2011, 17:07 pm
i cant deal with this
i need a stiff drink
i will be back to deal with this.
8 Nov 2011, 17:07 pm
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-282:
Sir Richard captain of the world champion All black side never commits foul play.
8 Nov 2011, 17:08 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-271:
ARE YOU STILL ON ABOUT THIS??????????????????//
I thought we set you straight last week??
It ain’t gonna happen chum! Get over it and rather waste your time on another worthless pursuit like regulating initiation ceremonies or training sharks to ask before they bite
8 Nov 2011, 17:09 pm
What bullshhit!!!
Recreation Cup!!! Seriasly!!???
Why don’t we just get them to play the games in the street with a golfball and go for a whole Monte Carlo thing?
8 Nov 2011, 17:10 pm
@Roar my Lions …. Currie Cup Champions 2011(RL)-280: Ja again – there is alot of catching up to do…to think that it was once the richest union in the world??? How things change…but I’m glad they are back…I don’t like any SA side being the butt end of jokes from anybody especialy not a union with a history like TVL/Lions.
8 Nov 2011, 17:10 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-284:
here you go!
http://www.sowetanlive.co.za/news/2011/10/31/fikile-mbalula-party-photos#13
8 Nov 2011, 17:11 pm
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-287:
No foul play?/??
You mean other than that incident with a particularly cute rooster in the jacuzzi that was quickly swept under the carpet.
8 Nov 2011, 17:13 pm
@NZINCHINA(NZINCHINA)-283: there was a fair amount of whining about it in general – even in the final the french where bitching about illigal tactics and i don’t begrudge the AB’s the cup they where the choice team at the WC but Joubert didn’t have his best day in the centre.
8 Nov 2011, 17:16 pm
Wonder why Pieter Louws contract at WP has not been renewed, think he is a good player very under rated. BUT in saying that dont want him for the Sharks we need quality backs.
8 Nov 2011, 17:27 pm
@Treehugger(Treehugger)-294: As an fugly face Plo did not fit into the whole metrosexual borkeback mould the WP like their players to fall into ……………………………. so if you want you can get Strooli to contract him.
What you say sharkie.
p.s. hows the humidity down there? just do not lick if you know what I mean.
8 Nov 2011, 17:35 pm
@Treehugger(Treehugger)-294:you guys need a fetcher, keegan is kakker than stegmann @ playing towards the ball.
8 Nov 2011, 17:36 pm
You would have sworn that these Lions had just won the S15, TriNations and World Cup all in one season…. not just some arbitory no name cup that no-one gives jacksherbet about and than your real die hard that doesnt have a life.
8 Nov 2011, 17:43 pm
@Bod(bod)-297: allow them their little moment in the sun…it was a long hard and bitterly cold winter and reality is going to come rushing back come Feb! But in the mean time…hey whats the harm?
8 Nov 2011, 17:46 pm
To elaborate in levels of importance from bottom up:
Vodacom Cup
Currie Cup
Stellies Koshuis Cup
Grand Challenge
Varsity Shield
S15
TN
WC
As a matter of interest, does anyone remember who won the Vodacom cup this year? In two months time everyone will be asking the same question about the Currie Cup
8 Nov 2011, 17:46 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-296: Ja KD is no fetcher but he makes up for that is so many other rolls…Steggman just sucks!
8 Nov 2011, 17:47 pm
@Bod(bod)-299:
8 Nov 2011, 17:48 pm
@gr8 white(gr8 white)-298:
I cant stand that supercillious grin on Katmans face at the best of times … now its just plain unbearable
8 Nov 2011, 17:52 pm
curry cup?! quite possibly the greatest trophy in world rugby today. lekker.
8 Nov 2011, 17:53 pm
@Bod(bod)-299: does anyone remember when last the brokebacks won a trophy?
8 Nov 2011, 17:53 pm
@Bod(bod)-302: Ja there is alot of chest thumping and trumpeting going on at the moment…just gotta grin and bear it…strange that so many Lions players now should not be overlooked for national selection..hehehe…going home now …check you later!
8 Nov 2011, 17:54 pm
@gr8 white(gr8 white)-300: but if he plays with deysel/alberts – 7, kanko – 8, then he is redundant because kanko is faster and gains more metres than him, so what is he adding as he is not even a monster in contact?
8 Nov 2011, 17:55 pm
@Roar my Lions …. Currie Cup Champions 2011(RL)-304:
What is a brokeback?
8 Nov 2011, 18:00 pm
@Bod(bod)-307:
I must admit I started that whole brokeback thing a few years ago …. go and check the archives. Some province supporter was going on and on and on about the Table Mountain hey and the ocean hey and the mountain again hey saying just how nice it was in the kaap ……………………………………….. that is when the whole brokeback mountain thing started which evolved into brokeback who lived near the mountain ……………………………. so if you support the WP and can see the mountain hey then you are a brokeback and your team is the brokebacks!
8 Nov 2011, 18:03 pm
@Roar my Lions …. Currie Cup Champions 2011(RL)-308:
Why brokeback… what is that
8 Nov 2011, 18:04 pm
@gr8 white(gr8 white)-305: Back in the days it was first the WP who were the bad guys …………. then the shakievarkies took over that role. Now as a sharkievarkie you will just have to bend over and let me give you 6 of the best.
Cause sharks are evil.
8 Nov 2011, 18:04 pm
@Bod(bod)-309: really?
8 Nov 2011, 18:05 pm
Was 37 here today pussycat, so was covered in pee
8 Nov 2011, 18:05 pm
Hey Bod. The Currie Cup is beautiful. I know this. You know this. And it burns you to know that you had no hope at securing it this year.
Grin.
8 Nov 2011, 18:06 pm
@Bod(bod)-309:
check it out …… just substitute the word cowboy for rugby player.
8 Nov 2011, 18:07 pm
@Bod(bod)-309: ooops I forgot the link
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0388795/
hehehehe
8 Nov 2011, 18:08 pm
@Treehugger(Treehugger)-312:
8 Nov 2011, 18:13 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-284:
I see fukkele is complaining that the burst condom episode and subsequent, ahem, fallout has been engineered by rogue elements in the nations intelligence structures.
Who the twat are these guys and who do they think they are kidding?
Honestly that old goat fuckadilly talks more sense.
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-285:
Bullshit.
Fact is your are talking kak.
The Currie Cup has evolved from being a trophy awarded for the most attractive rugby.
Things change.
By the way when were the boks introduced to the CC last year?
Or the year before that?
Now put your toys back before I take them away.
8 Nov 2011, 18:15 pm
@Roar my Lions …. Currie Cup Champions 2011(RL)-314:
Enjoy the movie??
8 Nov 2011, 18:16 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-313: What cup?
8 Nov 2011, 18:34 pm
I must be a technology moron – the keo mobile site disappeared from me one day and i can’t get it back. Is there some mobile url i should follow? The normal site is driving me mad!
8 Nov 2011, 18:39 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-317: he must first tell us who were the people who “threatened him” after he announced on the inquiry into the csa bonus extravaganza.
siyaya eMangaung!
8 Nov 2011, 18:56 pm
Ja Bod, I don’t blame you for asking. When did you lot last see it?
8 Nov 2011, 19:08 pm
@gr8 white(gr8 white)-279: It wasn’t just NZ in 2007, the English felt hard done by in the final with a disallowed try.
And in 2011 the French can hardly complain considering they got away with an eye gouge and the Welsh red cardee recently said it was fair. No other calls had a major effect on the tournament so it’s just RSA left to whine.
8 Nov 2011, 19:22 pm
Yawn
8 Nov 2011, 19:26 pm
Right-sizing Lions lost a year
Mon, 07 Nov 2011 00:25
Call it a repair job or a healing process, but part of the painful procedure of administrative restoration within the Golden Lions Rugby Union means making tough decisions.
GLRU President Kevin de Klerk has another name for the painful process of the past two years – right-sizing.
And he is intimately familiar with the pain that goes with it, having just watched as long-time friend Manie Reyneke walked out after four years in office as GLRU CEO – one of the many by-products of the ‘right-sizing’.
In this, Part Three of his exclusive and all-encompassing interview with rugby365.com, De Klerk speaks about the numerous administrative changes and controversies during his time in office – which, of course, has just seen the Lions claim their first Currie Cup title since 1999.
Amidst all the player upheavals and coaching changes in the early stages of his time in office, the administrative issues often seemed to slip into the background.
However, as the last five months proved, they demanded as much attention and often caused more unwanted headlines than the onfield dramas.
There was the much-publicised public spat with equity partner Guma TAC, which resulted in negotiations around the completion of the shareholders agreement being terminated in June.
The outcome of that was the announcement last month of a new equity deal with Altmann Allers, the union’s vice-President and owner of Glasfit.
But the biggest indication that there are some dramatic administrative changes taking place at GLRU headquarters in Doornfontein was when Reyneke announced last month that he would be leaving the services of the GLRU after four years.
As De Klerk told this website: “There were plenty of painful experiences [in the past two years].”
The departure of the CEO was one of the most painful of those, with De Klerk adding: “Manie [Reyneke]… I saw him grow up and we’ve been friends for 30 years and we will remain friends for at least another 30 years. I am happy he has secured another job in a similar field.
“But we had to right-size, but in certain aspects we fell well short… in the commercial and financial fields. We are busy fixing that up.”
The other, very painful and unpleasant, experience was the public fall-out with Guma Chairman Robert Gumede, who accused the GLRU of being “stuck in the past” and “putting a veneer on transformation”.
“What really hit us – Manie, the union and myself – was the engagement with the previous equity partner,” De Klerk said.
“We lost an entire year. We had to [continue to] pay salaries and we had the usual expenses, but the money just didn’t come in.”
De Klerk did have a message for the Guma boss, Gumede, after some of the nasty things said in public.
“He [Gumede] said, on national television, that he shudders to think what would happen with the Lions now that he wasn’t there… he’s been left with egg on his face,” De Klerk said of a union that has not just found another, equally powerful equity partner, but has also won two national titles recently – the Currie Cup and the Under-19 championship.
Asked about the reasons behind the right-sizing, De Klerk said they could not afford to live beyond their means.
“I would like to explain it this way: If you have just R100 to spend and your shopping list costs R120, you have to cut something out.
“We are now going through that process, it is a long-term process. You can’t keep living hand-to-mouth.
“Unions depend on bums on seats, sponsors, those things for their income. We went through 12 lean years [poor attendances due to poor results] and this union really struggled.
“We are busy with that repair job and it is a tough task.”
Another drawn-out saga that was eventually resolved last month – ironically the same month in which the Lions ended a 12-year Currie Cup drought – was the decision to decline an offer from Stadium Management South Africa to host future Lions matches at the Soccer City Complex in Soweto.
“We had good offers from Soccer City and it is a great venue, but we could not get to a specific figure where we could say that is what we will make [in terms of income],” De Klerk told this website.
“There were just too many misnomers… such as the possibility of setbacks from suite holders, season-ticket holders and life members. We also had to consider how our sponsors would have reacted.
“We just did not get the right messages back in this regard. Add in all the current changers, the right-sizing and new equity partners, it was not the right time to make that move now.
“On the basis of that we showed faith in our current stadium [Ellis Park, or Coca-Cola Park], where we have a lease for another 80 years.
“The ground belongs to the municipality, but we own all the buildings,” he explained.
“At Soccer City the maximum [period] they could offer us was eight or 10 years. That was a shaky offer, because our destiny was not in our own hands – there were simply to many unknown factors for us to take the leap.”
The Lions may still play some fixtures in Soweto and there is the fact that the Springboks’ Tri-Nations Test against the All Blacks next year will most likely be staged in Soweto too.
“That is not impossible,” De Klerk said, when asked about the Lions playing in Soweto in the future, adding: “As we know SARU are considering playing the All Blacks Test there [again].
“We will also consider playing a game at the Orlando Stadium in Soweto, but that will depend on the schedule of those stadiums. It will depend on many factors, but that is one of the options we will consider.”
The GLRU will also have to look at how they manage the Ellis Park precinct more effectively, in terms of how they get “maximum value” out of the two stadiums at their disposal – the main rugby stadium, Ellis Park, and neighbouring Johannesburg Stadium.
The other aspect is the decline of the Doornfontein precinct, like the rest of Johannesburg central in the last decade.
“We are working very hard on that and the Johannesburg City council also have a responsibility to improve the inner city,” he said, when asked about making visits to Ellis Park a more pleasant and safe experience for spectators.
Asked if he felt the administration has improved sufficiently, his answer was brutally frank: “What is enough?
“What was important for me was to steer the ship to calm waters and then we can take it from there.
“We have a good team and we have an agreement with a new equity partner.
“They brought some of their officials, accountants and other administrators, to come help us… to help us solve the issues.”
The GLRU has also announced that it has started the process of appointing a new CEO.
In the interim, Ruben Moggee – from equity partner Glasfit – will be the acting CEO of the Lions. Moggee will be assisted by the Board of Directors
8 Nov 2011, 20:06 pm
So now I have 2 teams in the Championship. Leeds & the Boks.
But Leeds will be in the Premiership next year.
8 Nov 2011, 20:19 pm
Grrrrrr
8 Nov 2011, 20:37 pm
The Currie Cup is dead.
Long live the Currie Cup.
8 Nov 2011, 21:14 pm
“Match venues for South Africa and Argentina still have to be confirmed and will be announced later by SANZAR.
A SANZAR delegation will travel to Argentina in November on a fact-finding visit during which it will conduct venue inspections and hold discussions with the UAR, host broadcasters, sponsors and other key stakeholders to ensure the smooth transition from Tri-Nations to The Rugby Championship.”
8 Nov 2011, 21:35 pm
looking forward to the 4nations this year. was getting so boring for so long and all they did to improve it was add another round, then the marketing genuises the following year came up with a brilliant idea to liven it up by creatively adding another round.
at least now theres a team which potentially has a lot to offer.
hopefully next round of creativity wont be to add another round.
8 Nov 2011, 21:46 pm
Rumour has it WP Nel joining stormers next year…
8 Nov 2011, 22:03 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-194:
I think you might be surprised at what actually happned in the Samona game in 1995.
I found the report of that game a couple of months ago but cant find it. But i did fond this. It has a little bit of the biting that the boks did on the Samoan team in 1995. Oh and for you a little bit about Suzie.
If you thought Samoa was hard done by in their clash against South Africa a couple of weeks ago and New Zealand with that forward pass in 2007, have a look at these World Cup injustices, collected from his scrapbook by Gregor Paul.
1 – ABDEL BENAZZI, 1995
It looked at the time as if Abdel Benazzi had grounded the ball over the tryline. It still looked like he had grounded the ball over the tryline on the slow motion action replay. But back in 1995, there was no Television Match Official. Semi-final referee Derek Bevan said the French No 8 was short and that was it ù he blew for fulltime and South Africa were in the final.
The Springboks had gone through 19-15 and Benazzi’s last minute lunge would have made all the difference, had it counted. It had the feel of a slightly harsh call in the hours after the game but took on a more sinister hue after the tournament. At the post-tournament dinner, South African Rugby Union president Louis Luyt thanked Bevan in his appalling speech for “outstanding refereeing”. He then invited the Welshman on stage to accept an expensive gold watch.
Bevan joined the mass walkout, later saying: “It was something I could have done without. It came out of the blue: I have no idea why he singled me out”.
It could be misconstrued and if that is the case, it leaves a bitter taste.”
2 – FIJI v FRANCE, 1999
Fiji had France in real trouble during their pool clash at the 1999 World Cup. A disorganised French team were all over the place and Fiji reigned supreme in the chaos. It was their kind of rugby – no structure, high risks and plenty of mistakes to feed off. They were looking good to pull off the unthinkable and beat the pool favourites and turn the World Cup on its head.
That was until referee Paddy O’Brien intervened by having the worst game of his career and a performance so bad even he said it was a “car crash”.
First he denied Fiji a legitimate try. They had caught the French fullback in a pincer tackle, the ball jolted loose and they hacked on and scored.
O’Brien, though, saw a knock-on no one else in the world did. Then he missed three blatant forward passes in the build-up to a French try and, amazingly, with Fiji under pressure on their own line during a series of scrummages, he awarded a penalty try after French hooker Marc Del Maso popped up.
France won the game 28-19 ùa result they could never have achieved without O’Brien’s help. “I lost the plot,” was the Kiwi official’s honest assessment.
He went on to become the IRB’s referee performance manager – Fiji were dumped out in the curious and never repeated quarter-final playoff round.
3 – ENGLAND v FRANCE, 1991
The last time England met France in a quarter-final, things finished up decidedly ugly both on and off the field.
The game itself was ill-tempered and full of unsavoury incidents that went unpunished. The French, as they are prone to do when they play England, smelled a conspiracy.
They felt the English-speaking New Zealand referee David Bishop was against them so after the final whistle blew to condemn France to an early exit – they had lost 19-10 – captain Daniel Dubroca manhandled the referee in the tunnel. He had him by the throat, pushed him around a bit and screamed in his face that he was a cheat.
Apparently this wasn’t reason for the IRB to take any action and they did their level best to play it down and pretend it never happened.
There was no sanction against the normally sane hooker but he did at least have the decency to resign his post shortly after the World Cup.
4 – SOUTH AFRICA v SAMOA, 1995
It would have spoiled the story, a good book and fairly awful movie. But the South Africans needed to be taken to task for their actions in the 1995 quarter-final against Samoa.
It was only after the Boks had posted a 42-14 win that the extent of their work off the ball became apparent. Some of the Samoans were sporting bite marks on various parts of their bodies and there may have been all kinds of physical abuse inflicted upon them.
But the Samoans were reluctant to snitch ¡¡¡¡¡ù to go public with the accusations, even though there was ample video evidence to confirm that they had been subjected to things no team should ever have to put up with.
Perhaps because of the momentum the Boks had built in unifying the country or perhaps because they had already been in trouble for a nasty brawl that erupted earlier in the tournament against the Canadians, South Africa were never probed about their antics in the quarter-final. They were let off without a stain on their record.
5 – TONGA v THE IRB, 2007
Tonga defied the odds to become the darlings of the tournament.
They so nearly beat South Africa in their opening game, then edged past the US and Samoa to leave themselves in a showdown with England for a quarter-final place. By this point, they had captured the imagination and probably because they were playing England, a number of people wanted to help them with their finances.
One such party was Irish-based bookmaker Paddy Power who tipped in a five-figure donation to help the Pacific Island side. The Tongans in return decided they would all dye their hair green to say thanks.
The IRB got wind of it and threatened them if they did. It didn’t seem to matter that the French had grown beards and dyed their hair blond en masse at the 1995 World Cup or that the French had deliberately darkened their playing kit to enforce a colour clash with the All Blacks in 2007.
The Tongans could be bullied so therefore they were.
6 – ENGLAND WITH 16 MEN, 2003
It is normally a straightforward business putting a replacement on to the rugby field. One player comes off, another takes his place. Simple. Except somehow when England played Samoa in 2003, Dan Luger came on but no one came off.
For nearly one minute, England played with 16 men. Mike Tindall hadn’t made it off the field and Samoa, trailing 35-22, had to endure 34 seconds against an extra man.
It was cheating in anyone’s book and a serious breach at that but England were fined only ú10,000 ù a slap on the wrist, if that.
It was a much more serious infringement than was ever acknowledged and we can only ask what the outcome would have been had Samoa been the ones to transgress. And what if they had won the game? Would they have been hit with such a wet sanction?
7 – ENGLAND v ANDRE WATSON 2003
England just about had the 2003 World Cup final in the bag. They were leading 17-14 and there were only a couple of minutes left.
Australia were desperate but they were struggling to get the ball or break England’s defence. They certainly didn’t look like they were going to score a try and England were proving supremely disciplined ù giving no penalties away to provide the Wallabies with the three points they needed.
The game should have wound down to a natural conclusion and England crowned champions after 80 minutes. But referee Andre Watson had a different view ù he saw a technical infringement in a scrum and despite the fact England were clearly dominant in that area and under no pressure, Watson awarded the Wallabies a penalty which Elton Flatley kicked to force the game into extra time.
England eventually won but they had to endure 20 extra minutes of agony to get there, thanks to Watson.
8 – ALL BLACKS v SUZIE
To this day, no one knows whether there was sabotage involved, or whether it was just seriously unlucky that so many All Blacks were struck down with food poisoning on the eve of the 1995 World Cup final.
The fact the players were sick is not debated. The likes of Craig Dowd and Jeff Wilson were seen vomiting on the side of the field during the game and other All Blacks were clearly not on their game. But was it all down to the mystery tea lady ‘Suzie’?
Unlikely and the injustice of all this was that it has taken some of the shine off the Springbok victory. The All Blacks either needed to declare their illness before the game and ask for a delay or at least let it be known in advance so there was no chance of them looking like sour losers. Or they needed to stay quiet forever.
9 – UNCONSCIOUS WELSHMAN SENT OFF, 1987
Everyone giggles when they remember the incident in the 1987 semifinal that saw Welsh lock Huw Richards sent off.
The All Blacks were giving the Welsh a bit of an old-fashioned doing and there was a fair bit of frustration among the men in red. Some of that boiled over when Richards and Gary Whetton got involved in a scuffle.
It was a real handbag session and perhaps out of embarrassment or perhaps because he wanted to show how things should really be done, All Black No 8 Wayne Shelford entered the fray.
Not one for half measures, ‘Buck’ smacked Richards properly ù knocked him out and really should have been sent off and therefore unavailable for the final the All Blacks were clearly going to make. But referee Kerry Fitzgerald had other ideas. He waited for Richards to regain consciousness, then he showed the Welshman the red card. Buck was off Scot free.
10 – SAMOA v SOUTH AFRICA, 2011
With a quarter-final place on the line, there was plenty of tension in the Samoa versus South Africa clash at North Harbour.
The Samoans were desperate and played superbly to dominate possession and open the Springboks up more than most teams have managed in several attempts combined.
They were trailing 13-5 with 12 minutes to go and looking capable of scoring a try to bring them within striking distance of a famous win.
The crowd could sense it and the Boks were increasingly edgy. At one breakdown, Samoa’s fullback Paul Williams held on to Heinrich Brussow’s jersey.
It was a bit silly and pointless, so Brussow repeatedly punched Williams’ arm in the hope he would release.
There was nothing in it and still not much in it when Williams finally stood up and pushed his open hand into Brussow’s face. The Springbok flanker dropped theatrically and rolled around – leading referee Nigel Owens to reach for a ludicrous red card. It was the softest red card ever and as a sign that Owens knew he had stuffed up, he immediately yellow carded John Smit for a deliberate knock-on that was clearly not deliberate.
8 Nov 2011, 22:44 pm
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-332: nice. that king hit on brussow was funny. brussow was all tough while williams was on the ground but as soon as williams could stand and defend himself brussow went hollywood and hit the ground like a sack of potatoes. brussow gets an academy award for the years best comedy act
that was williams 2nd red card and neither were deserved.
8 Nov 2011, 22:52 pm
Ja only a kiwi knows how to do a real Hollywood on the crowd…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdjQpFNqV8E
No room to talk boyos.
8 Nov 2011, 22:54 pm
Interesting that Bismark Du Plessis appears to have been the skipper talking to the ref in that clip.
8 Nov 2011, 22:55 pm
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-334: no where near as good as brussows
8 Nov 2011, 22:58 pm
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-334:
lol
If Brussow got a hit like that he would have ended up in someones lap in the crowd after the double somesault leading into a backflip
8 Nov 2011, 23:04 pm
@NoRugbyGuru_0_(RugbyGuru_0_)-331: I SAW WP NEL AT THE AIRPORT LEAVING ct THE FRI MORNING BEFORE THE cc FINAL….i WAS WITH jUSTRUGBY LEAVING FOR JOBURG….I WONDERED ABOUT THAT!
Fark…sorry caps
8 Nov 2011, 23:11 pm
it appears Deon Carstens has signed with Stormers as well…
9 Nov 2011, 01:52 am
@Roar my Lions …. Currie Cup Champions 2011(RL)-308:
Geez you must be extremely smitten with yourself… whilst many on here are starting families, creating successful businesses, conquering new lands and generally making a name for themselves… that’s your claim to fame?
9 Nov 2011, 06:27 am
Curry Cup? Is that some trophy they play for in India Bod?
9 Nov 2011, 06:36 am
Carstens who plays both 1 and 3 is about to sign with Province.
9 Nov 2011, 06:57 am
@Slartibartfast(Slartibartfast)-341:
hehe
theres three divisions – hot, mild and xtra hot.
9 Nov 2011, 07:37 am
@NoRugbyGuru_0_(RugbyGuru_0_)-331: where did you hear that?
If we get WP Nel and Deon Carstens I will be a happy man…
9 Nov 2011, 07:41 am
@grant10(grant10)-344: eish grant , most of the wp okes in here used to tell us how kak deon carstens is?? now you okes are happy about him??? lmao
9 Nov 2011, 07:44 am
if it happens , it will be a good purchase by the wp
9 Nov 2011, 07:56 am
@President_of_the_Sharks_rugby_experts(sharks_lover)-346:
its almost like the young mens western province association in here…
9 Nov 2011, 08:32 am
Now this is news worth talking about. Carstens or Nel, either will certainly bolster the squad for next year.
Sadly though I feel that the scrumming woes of WP (and let’s be honest, they are better this year than for a long time in the past, but still not a real force to be reconed with) are often put on the shoulders of the front rankers without taking into consideration that we have a no 7 flanker and a 2.08m beanpole scrumming in the second row,
CJ was **** at the Stormers and good for the Lions the same year.
I fear that Deon/WP Nel may suffer the same fate.
i’ve always maintained that whilst not amazing, that the WP front row is not a bad one at all. The problems go further than just that.
But the acquisition of either player will certainly bolster the stocks for what is looking to be a very long schedule/season next year.
9 Nov 2011, 08:33 am
@grant10(grant10)-344: province are lucky to have Saracens as their feeder team along with Boland … never will they struggle to fill a position.
Just look after your hookers and hope they remain fit, you do not want a SOS to go out to Plod.
9 Nov 2011, 08:39 am
Awesome comp – i think this will be great for Southern Hemisphere rugby and i cant wait to go watch rugby in B Aires – it can only help Argentin rugby but will the european clubs allow their players to play in this comp ???
9 Nov 2011, 08:39 am
The key with purchasing players in the future IMO is to get very good players who are not on the Springbok radar for the immediate future. This way you actually get to play them in your team.
Look at Butch, he’s been with the Lions for pretty much the season but hasn’t made any impact on the team whatsoever. He’s been away mostly and when he’s been available he’s struggled to break into the existing structures, something that should take any player at least 2 or 3 games to get up to speed with, so no real fault of his.
So either Deon or WP would be good buys with that in mind.
9 Nov 2011, 08:42 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-348:
couldn’t agree with you more bud…
it’s always put onto the props… but scrumming is an 8-man action…
we did hold our own last year and only got drilled when andries and elstadt were carrying injuries and couldn’t push effectively…
but we do need a couple of props and back-up locks for sure…
9 Nov 2011, 08:42 am
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-332:
Hurricane…
This is disappointing… even from you…
I was at this game and the amount of off-the-ball filth dished up by the Samoans was even worse than the filth dished in this latest world cup… a lot of it was apparent on the broadcast but not all… but it was very apparent at the match… you could see the samoans lining up bok players for big hits which were high, no-arms, late and extremely dangerous… to their credit the boks still played and took the hits even though they knew they were going to come…
and to come after the match and allege ‘bites’… not one of which was caught on camera is just the same old bitter bile that we have come to expect of the samoans blaming everything and everyone… including their own management, racism, the IRB, scheduling etc etc for their losses…
fact is… samoa are the worst sportsmen in world rugby… they wanna play with the big boys but when they get klapped they cry like little b!tchy girls… they have no concept of losing with grace and dignity…
we also had a tongan in the 07 world cup claiming frans steyn bit him which proved to be false and made up just to try and get him banned from the knock-out stages…
samoa have always been dirty and (very disappointingly but understandably) cheered on by the big brother new zealand public in a nudge nudge wink wink go-get-em-little-brother kinda way… they have no hope of beating us but will do their best to beat up our players to negatively influence our performance in the knockout stages…
and you conveniently ignore all the dirty stuff put out by samoa in this latest game and just pick on williams red card… which again was illegal… imagine if it had been bakkies putting his hand in danny boy’s face…? you’d have cried like a stuck pig…
you know i don’t moan and *****… and sincerely congratulate you guys when you win…
but it is so disappointing that you guys continue to support samoa in their dirty tactics and ignore their incidents when you compile your ‘lists’ such as this…
if for once, little brother decided to stick it to big brother and did to the abs what they always do to the boks… or if they did it to the aussies… in the same pre-planned dirty manner… then i’d love to hear your comments… if richie or dan were injured by illegal tackles or hits etc what would you guys say… would it still be a private little in-the-family joke…? i doubt it…
seriously hurricane… to ignore this is to lose credibility…
and don’t divert attention by listing your same old favorite anti-bok diatribe… i have often admitted and criticized and condemned the boks for foul play and do not condone it… ever…
but when are you ab supporters going to be honest enough to condemn samoa’s thuggery…?
i won’t hold my breath…
9 Nov 2011, 08:42 am
@Roar my Lions …. Currie Cup Champions 2011(RL)-349: We have 3 good hookers, Tiaan, Deon and also the youngster Siya Ntubeni, who shows a lot of promise. He’ll come through nicely with time.
9 Nov 2011, 08:44 am
@ufo(ufo)-352: Morning fella!
I’d like to see another good scrummaging lock signed, the guys like De Kock Steenkamp and co just haven’t lived up to their initial potential.
A real shame about losing Anton Van Zyl. he would have been the perfect guy to compliment the other 2 IMO.
9 Nov 2011, 08:45 am
@stew(stew)-350:
how can being viciously arrse ffucked with a wooden spoon year in and year out in way be good for argentine rugby?
9 Nov 2011, 08:49 am
@President_of_the_Sharks_rugby_experts(sharks_lover)-345: I like the fact he can play 1 and 3….i rate him better as a 1 though.
WP Nel would also add some grunt@Roar my Lions …. Currie Cup Champions 2011(RL)-349:
LOL
Fark me mate….we sign Plod I will never set my foot in Newlands again…..that is a promise…..as long as he plays of course…
9 Nov 2011, 08:50 am
@ufo(ufo)-353:
” also had a tongan in the 07 world cup claiming frans steyn bit him which proved to be false and made up just to try and get him banned from the knock-out stages…
No quite true ufo,
The bite was real enough,
But you are correct, it was not Young Fronken Steyn.
He was acused wrongly. The actual culprit was Bakkies.
9 Nov 2011, 08:53 am
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-356:
You have a way with words bakkies.
8)
9 Nov 2011, 08:53 am
@grant10(grant10)-357: Smittie for next Stormers coach !
9 Nov 2011, 08:56 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-355:
and morning to you bud…!
yeah… anton van zyl was a big loss for us… not only as a scrummaging lock but as a leader on the field too… i was really shocked when he was allowed to leave…
9 Nov 2011, 09:00 am
@The Gloater – formerly cane(cane)-359:
9 Nov 2011, 09:00 am
@ufo(ufo)-353:
At most WC’s there is usually one nasty unseemly match.
And it usually involves SA.
!995, SA/Canada.
2007, SA/Tonga.
2011, SA/Samoa.
9 Nov 2011, 09:01 am
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-332:
What and no mention of the faked moon landings?
Good luck in looking for your missing report.
Its probably buried amongst your UFO sightings.
Meanwhile the Moan thuggery, stretching over 4 world cups, is there for all to see.
9 Nov 2011, 09:02 am
Diary of an AB Fan.
Week 3 of my team being world champions feels a lot like the first two weeks.
Must temper celebrations for the moment, will be meeting the man responsible today, quite nervous really, am so looking forward to his recollections and the tales of his intense and total preparation that culminated in the good guys winning on October 23rd 2011.
Have never been in the presence of greatness before, not sure what protocols are expected.
do I call him Mr Lawrence or just Bryce?
9 Nov 2011, 09:04 am
@The Gloater – formerly cane(cane)-358:
“The actual culprit was Bakkies.” and your proof is…???
that’s my point… you guys go on about stuff the boks do whether there’s proof or not…
but ignore the clear incidents of samoan players…
9 Nov 2011, 09:08 am
@ufo(ufo)-366:
shhh….
wait until caner hits his second bottle of johnnie.
then he will tell you who killed JFK.
and whether Julius Malema really is Princess Margaret’s secret love-child.
9 Nov 2011, 09:09 am
@The Gloater – formerly cane(cane)-363:
as i said…
instead of trying to dredge up all your bok-hating favourites… why don’t you condemn samoa’s thuggery…???
can’t/won’t…?
nuff said…
9 Nov 2011, 09:12 am
the boks arent thugs, they just systematically and routinely have lil brain explosions.. it is a physical game after all…
9 Nov 2011, 09:12 am
@Gunther(gunther)-367:
hehehe…
okay gunther… will hang on for the big reveal…
9 Nov 2011, 09:15 am
Well it’s dissapointing to hear that Jeff Wilson, a player I have long admired chose to blame his lack of BMT/Nerves/Babalas/Weak Stomach on some chick called Suzie.
Sour Grapes all round.
9 Nov 2011, 09:16 am
speaking of routine “lil” brain explosions…..
bonjour poep.
9 Nov 2011, 09:18 am
@Gunther(gunther)-372: French Gunther?
you visiting HG at the moment?
9 Nov 2011, 09:21 am
@ufo(ufo)-366:
As reportered here on Keo.
Jake left young Steyn to carry the can, knowing he would get off.
If however the truth emerged, Bakkies was a goner. And this Jake feared would upset his Grand Plan.
9 Nov 2011, 09:21 am
@poppa69(poppa69)-373:
poep
why would I visit HG when I have Chateau Gunther in Provence dedicated to mine own amusement?
9 Nov 2011, 09:30 am
@Gunther(gunther)-375: dedicated to your own amusement?
didnt know you could be famous for that
9 Nov 2011, 09:33 am
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-356: Hey well it is better them than you guys – lol
9 Nov 2011, 09:34 am
@The Gloater – formerly cane(cane)-374:
so keo is gospel all of a sudden…?
i’ll remind you of that in future…
9 Nov 2011, 09:38 am
@poppa69(poppa69)-376:
I am famously amusing.
as you have found out at great expense
9 Nov 2011, 09:41 am
@poppa69(poppa69)-376:
“dedicated to your own amusement?”
At school, this was called self abuse.
In latter life it was referred to as wan king.
9 Nov 2011, 09:42 am
Ooooops,
I forgot the smilie.
9 Nov 2011, 09:55 am
@The Gloater – formerly cane(cane)-380:
I never had you down for an onanist.
I should have paid more attention to your scribblings.
each to their own.
9 Nov 2011, 10:28 am
@ufo(ufo)-353:
UFO, Not in my post did i say that i support what Samoa do.
If you took it that way then i apologise for the confusion.
What i was attempting to prove is that Samoa wasnt the only team according the link i found that was doing illegal tactics. Now its up to everybody to say it was the truth or lies, who really cares but i dont like how some people on here talk about the Samoans yet there own players have proven they are able to play the thug game as well.
9 Nov 2011, 10:32 am
@Gunther(gunther)-364:
YOu mean the moon landings were fake??
Suppose Bakkies head butt on Cowan was also staged….. what is the world coming to!!!
9 Nov 2011, 11:37 am
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-383:
cool bud… accepted…
and as i’ve said many times in the past… i do and will condemn dirty play by the boks…
9 Nov 2011, 22:54 pm
@ufo(ufo)-353:
wow thats rich. the giant nation of samoa (pop aprox 150,000) picking on southAfrica. poor Boks always getting bullied or cheated by the refs
samoa’s thuggery is in direct retaliation to the boks tactics. u dont see big bad samoa picking on any other teams. in the australia game (preWC) there wasnt any dirty tactics. all the other pool games there were no controversies about thuggery.
Its only ever with the boks. so now when a team stands up to the boks, the biggest thugs in world rugby, and uses their own bully boy tactics against them its an issue. think u need to look into the mirror. rich.
dont get me wrong, I’m a fan of having a bit of mongrel in the game. southAfrica have a lot to teach NZ about winning the game at all cost. AB’s are awesome but they have this goody too shoes image thats upheld by the sponsors and NZRFU. I’d much prefer the AB’s to be inline with Boks, England, French and allegedly Samoa’s tactics of thuggery.
if we were going to condemn thuggery then i think it would have to start with southAfrica. classic, Boks victims of thuggery, a little hypocritical?. LMAO
10 Nov 2011, 08:25 am
@man1a(man1a)-386:
are you a half-wit…? or just a lazy bugger…?
or just a one-eyed fan who saw a comment and got so feverishly hyped he just had to respond NOW before reading back and finding out the context…?
what is rich is your post making assumptions because you’re too lazy to read through the thread… and then making comments which have been addressed in previous posts…
but by all means… make a fool of yourself…
10 Nov 2011, 21:09 pm
@ufo(ufo)-387: just lazy
and laughing at your stance. big bad samoans picking on boks. hypocritical much? i dont want to rant and I’m not belittling you. i can understand where you would get your view point but i’d just like to pint out where you have erred in your logic/opinion.
i’m blown away bout how you think Samoa are dirty players. yes they’re physical and tend to be a bit high with some tackles. but Samoa arent dirty players,… usually. its only when they play the Boks and this is in direct retaliation for the Boks past and present tactics.
what gets me about your statement is how over simplified you’ve catorgorised Samoa. you’ve obviously only ever watched Samoa play the Boks and your statements is based on that. yeah Samoa step up the physicality when playing the Boks but you have to. the boks (despite PDV) are a quality physical side. Samoa maybe guilty of stepping up the physicality but never never never have they been done for down right dirty uncalled for sht off the ball. have Samoa ever been cited for head butting, biting, eye gouging? have southAfrica?
you call them thugs and blame them for it (while ignoring all the evidence of boks past transgressions. Boks biting ? honestly? how old are they 5?). look a bit closer at your own team when they play and dont be surprised when other teams start seeing through the Boks facade of invulnerability and start giving them back what the Boks dish out.
its the only way to beat the Boks. first you have to stand up to them and take away the effectiveness of their intimidation, and the Boks would have to be the most intimidating team in the world. AB’s maybe the best but even they would feel apprehension of playing a firing physical Boks side and the affects they know they will leave on their bodies.
i have heaps of respect for the boks (or any quality side) but in this case Boks asked for the treatment they get from big bad Samoa. sure Samoa may lower themselves to Boks tactics when playing southAfrica but never do they truly use real low down tactics like biting, headbutting and/or eye gouging. those teams that do are the real dirty players.
11 Nov 2011, 07:58 am
yeah right…
boks are the spawn of the devil…
until you use both eyes there’s no point wasting time on you…
what a condescending dishonest little ponce you are…
13 Nov 2011, 20:31 pm
@ufo(ufo)-389: typical. stick to your blind opinion despite solid evidence in your face telling you otherwise. u stik to disillusioned squeaky clean boks side and we’ll just cast samoa as your evil adversary’s.
20 Dec 2011, 14:42 pm
Hello, I’m from Argentina, I put a link to some photos of the stadium where Pumas-Boks will play the match in Buenos Aires. You are welcome to visit it.
http://www.canchallena.com/1350887-la-reinauguracion-del-estadio-ciudad-de-la-plata-en-imagenes
Thanks.
Have your say
You must be logged in to post a comment.