SA linked to rebel league
14 Nov 2011
South African franchises have been a linked with European plans to create a global rugby tournament in the near future.
According to The Guardian, there are secret plans being made among Europe’s richest clubs to establish a breakaway tournament, which would include South African franchises. The UK newspaper also confirmed that there are separate proposals to create a world club championship, which would include the champions of the English Premiership, Pro12 and French Top 14 and European Cup, as well as the winners of Super Rugby and the respective Australian, New Zealand and South African logs.
It is believed that only money is the issue stopping these plans. The European Cup is run by the European Rugby Cup Ltd, which acts on behalf of the unions involved. The tournament’s turnover has doubled in five years to just over €50m (about R545m) but there are many who believe the competition is capable of generating far more.
Frustrated clubs are aware the existing five-year ERC accord ends in June, although any stakeholder wishing to exit the tournament is still required to give two years’ notice. All the tournament’s major TV contracts expire in 2014 and Heineken’s title sponsorship deal runs until 2013. The strict salary cap in England remains a further bone of contention for millionaire club owners who, despite the economic turmoil across Europe, are seeking to expand.
‘From an English and French clubs’ point of view the European Cup is a growing competition but it is essentially controlled by the unions and played by the clubs,’ said an anonymous prominent club figure. ‘There are some English and French clubs who do not regard that as an ideal situation. There is also a growing weariness in South Africa with Sanzar [South Africa, New Zealand and Australia Rugby]. They feel they’re at a playing disadvantage by constantly having to travel and, despite having more commercial pulling power, do not get a proportionally bigger share of the revenue. They feel South Africa is subsidising Australia and New Zealand, which are relatively small markets.’
In a recent interview with SA Rugby magazine, Saracens CEO Edward Griffiths echoed the same sentiments. Saracens will take their European Cup tie against Biarritz to Cape Town in January.
‘I’’m not sure if that will be possible and whether the IRB will allow it [a global club competition], but I do believe new competition structures need to be implemented. The English clubs are suffering major losses. There was a total loss of R300 million from all clubs after last season, so there needs to be some changes made,’ said Griffiths.
‘It would be a positive step for South African franchises to join forces with European clubs. The time zone is similar and it’s easier to travel to London and Paris than it is to Sydney or Auckland. This would make it easier for all clubs and franchises to earn a profit while it will also create a fresh and appealing spectacle for fan.’
161 Comments
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14 Nov 2011, 16:24 pm
Go NORTH Dragons
14 Nov 2011, 16:25 pm
This was also in the UK Rugby Paper…
Things getting interesting.
Its one helluva bargaining chip.
14 Nov 2011, 17:21 pm
Our rugby would go slip backwards.
Doubt we will go.
Money does talk though, just hope we stay in the south.
Somehow think the north need us more than we need them.
14 Nov 2011, 17:40 pm
@puma. I think you might have been correct 10 years ago, but SA need to protect two things. The Currie Cup and our players. The constant expansion of the SH tournaments is very bad for our players’ careers. The WC this year showed it and the SH can be very grateful we have the depth as aus, sa and nz started to lose all their players.
You must remember that while it is true what you said about the NH needing SA, it is even more necessary for aus and nz to incorporate SA into their tournaments. How many people watched the final of the NPC this year?
I say let’s deal with Europe, as a cross continental tournament will not be the only thing they have. This will give SA the chance to strengthen the CC, while not being in isolation. Just compare Munster, Leicester and Toulouse’s homeground attendance figures to that of the Crusaders, Brumbies and Blues. 3 teams with the same historic success than those european teams mentioned.
14 Nov 2011, 17:45 pm
WOW !!!! this is exciting, hope it happens soon.
14 Nov 2011, 17:48 pm
I used to be all for staying South, but stuff that… SA continually get a raw deal versus the kissing cousins. I don’t think it would diminish our rugby at all… Do it!
14 Nov 2011, 17:50 pm
While in a way I would be sad to see South African players playing fewer games against the Kiwis and Aussies, I think it’s time to leave them behind.
We’ve always been the third wheel and we should go somewhere where we get a fair shake for a change.
There’s a hell of a lot more money to be made in Europe, too.
I honestly think that it will be the kiwis and Aussies who suffer if this does happen, and not us.
Super Rugby has been expanded to ridiculous proportions to suit the Aussies’ needs, and there are no positives in that scenario for us.
The Boks could still play in the so-called Rugby Championship, though the option of joining the Seven Nations could become increasingly attractive.
14 Nov 2011, 18:00 pm
SA rugby need a Louis Luyt. Hoskins certainly do not have the vision or backbone to take this opportunity and run with it. At least use it in contract negotiations, but no. We will get whipped again by our SH “friends”. How I would love if we play the Irish, Welsh, Scots, English and French. They respect the values of rugby, unlike the Aussies who would damage our game until it is unrecognisible. I used to tolerate them, because of respect I had for NZ, but that is also gone. NZ is to Aus what Wales is to England. Texas is more of a country in its own right than these two spineless, B grade countries.
14 Nov 2011, 18:00 pm
Good move. Hope it happends. SA have been for too long now at the mercy of biased administration of NZ and Aus looking after each other at our expense. Bring on a more level playing field.
14 Nov 2011, 18:02 pm
This competition envisages pitting the winners of the various competitions, including the winners of the Super Rugby Comp and the various regional conference winners against the winners up North.
So this is not in place of the Super Comp, this is in addition to the Super Rugby competition.
Just what we need. More fixtures.
Chase the money and throw the players away after a season or two….that’s what I say!!!
(insert sarcastic font here)
14 Nov 2011, 18:15 pm
Bad idea.. all europe clubs have the money… if they play in the same league then players will draft to the better money and therefore leaving the sa provinces as the worst off…
If theres a way around that then go ahead but i like the fact that between febuary and may is super rugby.. then tri nations and the six nations and the european championship being spread over the year… if there is one league it will leave huge pre seasons because the tri natiuons and six nations will need to be played the same time otherwise the tournament wouldnt work..
14 Nov 2011, 18:15 pm
I say stuff SANZAR once and for all. SARU are weak and cowardly and continue to bend and take long deep ones from the sheep admirers and it’s boring.
Move away from the Southern Hemisphere where the travel issue is and always will be a contentuous problem, especially for South African teams getting the soggy end of all the travel schedules. SARU just throw their arms up and plead ignorance while winking at their cronies in SANZAR. Enough now.
I am quite excited at the prospect of a northern alliance. Fans wanting to travel from South Africa can do so at a fraction of the cost and of course there’s the huge expat community in the UK that will benefit from a home flavoured rugby spectacle. What’s not to like.
14 Nov 2011, 18:20 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-10: LOL. Exactly..hehe.
Just more rugby which we don’t want.
Also if we ever decide to go north that will be our rugby as we know it down here. Cause none of our top players will play in any saffa franchise, they would play in a nh club cause the money would be a whole lot more than what they earn here. We will be left with the CC players at best down here.
So we can then forget seeing the very best playing in our franchise. That is a problem that would happen if we move away from SuperRugby and head north.
I think we just stay in the sh. We work out a shorter S15 that would help for starters.
14 Nov 2011, 18:23 pm
@Rhys7(Rhys7)-11: Snap just said it in my post 13.
We would lose players in the droves if we went north. None of our franchises here could pay them what the clubs pay them over there. Would be a very bad move for our rugby to head north.
14 Nov 2011, 18:34 pm
@Puma(Puma)-14:
The real point is, how profitable would it be compared to what SARU currently pocket from the SANZAR/NewsCorp deal?
14 Nov 2011, 18:46 pm
@David(David)-15:
A lot more.
14 Nov 2011, 18:50 pm
@Puma(Puma)-13:
From my understanding, the North vs South is the European offering.
However this article is talking about a rebel “league” .
14 Nov 2011, 19:08 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-16:
Based on what? The pie may be bigger, but there’ll be far more slices and SAs viewership contribution would be proportionately tiny.
14 Nov 2011, 19:19 pm
@David(David)-18:
Viewership is based more on variety and quantity – having witnessed the first week of Heineken Cup I don’t think the quality differs that much either to be honest.
It’s a pity the full article was not posted here, but if you look at the money involved with the Heineken Cup and compared to Super Rugby (and remember add more convenient viewing hours wrt timezones) – a better playing calender – better variety on show and you have a winning product.
Numbers quoted in SA Rugby mag a month or so ago suggested SA contributes close to or over 70% of the viewing (most profitable) audience to SANZAR based comps – yet the SANZAR split is equal.
Commercially and in the simplest business terms SA Rugby stands to gain a hell of a lot more associating themselves with guys up North than with cousins down East.
14 Nov 2011, 19:22 pm
I can’t see the majority of European clubs agreeing to the idea of flying back and forth to SA for games. We do it because we have no option in the SH.
Besides the European sides are more like soccer teams with players of all nationalities who are based in Europe.
14 Nov 2011, 19:31 pm
@David(David)-20: Their players would love the idea of taking a nice summer break in SA. We’ll thump them while they come on a holiday, but they’ll still enjoy it.
SANZAR has always been about protecting NZ and Aus from rugby extinction. They must be sh*tting themselves about this… Without SA, Aus and NZ are in serious trouble and I think SA might just be fed up enough with the stupid SANZAR nonsense that’s going on.
The new S15 format was basically implemented so that NZ and Aus can get more money from the revenue SA generates for big derby matches… I say drop them sheep shaggers and see how they cope without us.
14 Nov 2011, 19:46 pm
@David(David)-20:
Think ‘global season’. From my understanding Europe is happy to let this run into the most part of their summer going into their winter.
If the money is there, these boys will fly – just in better timezones and to be honest, NZ rugby and Oz rugby has not made many global friends recently.
14 Nov 2011, 19:59 pm
It may not work, the basics are all against it
The Unions in SA are the power base, outside them nothing will survive, so for private enterprises to go against the provincial Unions is not practicle: the unions all have their infrastructures in place, the presumed new entities may find a breakaway to be unbearable and unsustainable.
The economic cycle still on the down turn, not the right time to move
14 Nov 2011, 20:21 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-22:
The better time zones is only an issue for SA. I just wonder whether SAs involvement would raise the revenue for the Euro clubs enough to make it attractive.
Our revenue comes from a bundle deal that includes the S15 and 3N with NewsCorp.
From what I see of the proposal, it effectively absorbs the S15 playoffs and semis into the European cup. Unless NewsCorp/Sky Sports is involved the whole current package falls apart.
14 Nov 2011, 20:34 pm
This isn’t such a bad idea. The only issue I would have with it would be the potential loss of players to the richer clubs up north, but they may be ways to combat that. Instituting some sort of reasonable salary cap and adding revenue sharing to that would put all the clubs involved on even footing. That way, the rich clubs can’t just snatch all the best players.
Without SA, SANZAR would basically collapse, which would probably lead to all the best players or at least some of the clubs down under trying to join the new league.
The more I think about it, the more I like it. I hope this happens in the near future. My only caveat would be the tri / quad nations or whatever they want to call it not be killed. They would probably need to pare it down to one home and away game in order to keep it within reason. We just need to test ourselves against the ABs every year. The wobblies I could live without.
14 Nov 2011, 20:34 pm
@Hondo(Hondo)-23:
You’re quite right, up to a point. The S15 Franchises are an artificial creation formed to provide the 150 best SA players, to adhere to the deal proposed by SANZAR to NewsCorp. In fact, the S15 is owned by SARU and exists independant of the unions.
The reality though, is that if the majority smaller unions see there revenue share increase by endorsing a deal, they’ll go for it.
14 Nov 2011, 20:34 pm
I can’t wait for the Super deal to end and I can’t wait for the antipodes to reject the inclusion of the Kings as the 6th SA team …. that will be the last straw!
14 Nov 2011, 20:36 pm
one thing i like about SA rugby is the fact u guys have protected your CurieCup. if this move allows you to protect the CC moreso than do it. nz has sold out the NPC and its now only a feeding comp for superRugby
NZ and Aus will survive and superRugby needs a major shakeup anyways. the marketers will be forced this time to come up with something more creative than adding more teams and rounds.
scrap the triNations as well or make it less frequent like every 2 years.
SA will be missed but southern comps are stagnant and need a shakeup.
14 Nov 2011, 20:39 pm
@David(David)-26: franchises are artificial only in a NZ context … In SA there is no distinction between a Currie Cup side and a franchise team, same difference.
14 Nov 2011, 20:43 pm
Yeah bugger off up North you pansie, biltong munching Saffers, NZ and Aus can do without you…believe they can. You go North and your rugby will go South, this I promise you. All this harping about poor old SA having to travel, HELLO dont Aus and NZ travel to SA also…? duuhhhh!!! if SANZAR goes out of existence, then an ANZAC alliance will take its place…and it will do very nicely thank you…and what a joy it will be not to have to stick up with the constant bleating (sounds like you are a nation of sheep) that comes out of SA…yes ANZAC’s will do just fine thank you….
14 Nov 2011, 20:45 pm
@slow114(slow114)-25:
The french clubs wouldn’t agree to a salary cap, as they’re owned by wealthy individuals. A lot like Barcelona in soccer.
14 Nov 2011, 20:49 pm
Dump the antipodes I say … have a 8/10 team professional Currie Cup competition and let the top 4 qualify to play in the Rugby Champions League. Don’t worry about the kiwis, their top players will be forced to seek employment where the money is.
14 Nov 2011, 20:50 pm
Nice work by Gareth to link the Guardian quote by an unnamed “anonymous prominent club figure” to similar sentiments already attributed to Ed Griffiths in SA Rugby Magazine. Hmmm, I wonder who the anonymous prominent club figure could be?
At this stage, it’s only an idea within Saracens. Most top English and French clubs operate at a loss. They are using the SA dissatisfaction with SANZAR as a carrot to the other big clubs in France and England. Kind of promising that if they take charge of European club competition then the South Africans *might* be ready to join them and bring Supersport money to the TV deals.
Make no mistake, it is Supersport money. SANZAR keeps banging on about how the Newscorp deal is the essential source of funding for all three unions, but Newscorp are not doing it for charity. They sell the rights, mostly to their associate companies with FOX or SKY in their names, but the biggest audience comes from DSTV.
There is no need any longer for Super Rugby and the 3N (now the 4 team Rugby Chamionship) to be bundled together for TV rights. Let SARU negotiate all home tests directly with Supersport, and see how much Newscorp can raise for Super Rugby. My estimate is, not very much.
That would leave SA Rugby with a clear choice of Super Rugby or the European equivalent. I’m not saying we should go the European route, but it is a realistic option and can be evaluated on it’s merits at the time.
14 Nov 2011, 20:52 pm
have been advocating this for over a decade now.
Go North Boks.
About bloody time
14 Nov 2011, 20:52 pm
NZ is #1 (and world champs) and Oz is #2. Any contest without them is a lowly second-rate farce, really. And the Bledisloe Cup has always been more important than the 3N or the Mandela Hubcap.
14 Nov 2011, 21:00 pm
@Roar my Lions …. Currie Cup Champions 2011(RL)-29:
Superficially yes , apart from the Cheetahs/Griquas.The reality is though, that S15 franchises have no official standing within SARU, other than as a combination of the individual unions that comprise the franchise.
14 Nov 2011, 21:04 pm
@TheTackler(TheTackler)-35: that is exactly the attitude that we , as Saffas , have had to endure since Superrugbys inception…..all the more reason for us to go.
and as i have said a 1000 times before….we as saffas have no kinship with kiwis or aussies……far more spiritually comfortable with poms, frenchies, scots, irish. welsh….etc
Time for us to say our goodbyes
if truth be told sazar was farked from day 1 imo
14 Nov 2011, 21:05 pm
fark I would be ecstatic if this gets off the ground…….
hope stormers get to clobber plod and saracens before the fat boy retires…
14 Nov 2011, 21:14 pm
Would enjoy watching my Sharkies against Toulouse, Leicester Tigers, Northampton Saints and the like…
Go North with a global rugby season… It can only end well…
At worst it can be a great bargaining chip with the kissing cousin snakes.
At best it can be a whole new more lucrative Rugger comp with more passionate/traditional crowds to replace SA involvement in S15…
Champions League Rugby – I Like IT!!!
14 Nov 2011, 21:15 pm
@35. Ja you can play each other in a nine match bledisloe series every year. Or better yet. Play each other 3 time for the Bledisloe Cup and then 5 times for the Bledisloe Series and then once off and call it the Bledisloe Final. You know why? Because the aussies and kiwis only support their national teams. In France you have the Southerners that do not want to be associated with the teams from Paris. Leicester have supporters that will pack their grandstand even if it is a midweek game in terrible conditions. Did you watch the Currie Cup Final? Have you seen the red sea of supporters when Munster plays? Now let us compare it to the NPC final. How many supporters were there? 12 thousand?
14 Nov 2011, 21:18 pm
@Horings(Horings)-4: Good post
14 Nov 2011, 21:19 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-22: @PissAnt(PissAnt)-19: As always, knowledgeable rugger man.
14 Nov 2011, 21:21 pm
i am not exactly sure how to feel about this.
on the one hand, i would miss the excitement of a superrugby season about to begin, the fixture list and learning which sheepshagger or convict (jokes my australasian cuzzies) have moved to which franchise etc etc.
on the udder hand, i am bored stiff with “super” rugby.
the competition is bloated and full of journeymen as so much talent has headed north already. Its the same old every year but with more meaningless fixtures, poorer reffing (by all countries refs) and pathetic permutations allwing the weakest country (aus) to benefit from having more no-hoper derbies than the rest etc etc.
6 team playoffs? i mean really, WHAT THE ***?
so ja, i guess i would find it quite exciting to have new competition, new faces and places, new traditions to learn about and even maybe the opportunity to OCCASIONALLY travel as a fan to europe to wach my team which i will certainly never do in superrugby (i could do a long weekend to europe/england and stay with my boet, imagine that?).
so ja, i am wavering.
14 Nov 2011, 21:23 pm
@Horings(Horings)-40: they wish they drew 12000.
seriously, the kiwis dont seem to support anyone but the all blacks and the aussies actually are surpassing them in terms of crowd numbers.
shocking.
14 Nov 2011, 21:27 pm
aus and nz would be feeder nations like argentina within a decade if this did happen.
nz would learn what it feels like to be a samoa and have your team get together a week before a fixture.
harsh but true i mean these okes can purportedly not afford to send a side to the next world cup?
14 Nov 2011, 21:28 pm
I can’t believe this. We’d prefer to play against the weakest tier one teams than measure ourselves against the ABs and Wallabies.
As for you Grant, I’m disgusted that as a self professed “African”, you claim that SA has more in common with European nations.
14 Nov 2011, 21:34 pm
@Horings(Horings)-40: there were 80,000 that watched Stade play Clermont just a week ago for a normal league match in Paris …… that is 16 times bigger than the small group of people that watched the NPC final.
14 Nov 2011, 21:36 pm
@David(David)-46: david i am not sure if you are looking at this correctly mate.
its not the boks who would be playing vs the national teams of european nations.
its franchises/ clubs playing against each other.
now if you think that the superrugby teams are all infinitely superior, i would suggest you havent really been watching the last few years.
how do you think teams like toulouse, stade, munster, leinster, leicster and sarries to mention a few would stack up against the lions (of the last few years), the cheetahs, force, chiefs, hurricanes, reds (of the last few years), brumbies of late, rebels?
please man, there would be more than a few NH slanted as s whuppings handed out to so called “super” rugby teams b the top clubs in europe.
lastly, my heritage is Scots, my country is South Africa. i am proud of both. is that wrong?
14 Nov 2011, 21:37 pm
@David You may friend have the same lack of vision than our leadership at saru. Do you think ABs and Wobblies will be at the top if we pull out of the SH tournaments. Where will their money come from? NZ will make it by using the All Black brand. No other country will play as many games as them, while the Aussies will become weaker than Italy. The strength in a competition such as the Barclays Premier League has to do with passion. Passionate clubs and passionate supporters. NZ and Aus provinces have none of it, except for the Reds.
14 Nov 2011, 21:40 pm
@Horings(Horings)-49: the saffa fans pay for the aus and nz rugby unions to survive and thrive at present.
without our coin going east, we wll still play against their best (and i would hazard a fair amount would filter into saffa franchises too) but the money will travel north south instead.
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