Province pull rank on Euro Cup match
15 Nov 2011
Newlands and not the Cape Town Stadium will host the European Cup match between Saracens and Biarritz.
Ticket sales have already started for the match on 14th January, with the designated venue being the modern 60 000-setter stadium in Greenpoint, Cape Town. The fixture was widely expected to sell out, with locals and foreign visitors (it is the height of the tourist season) expected to file in for the unique event.
However, the Western Province Rugby Union have intervened and successfully challenged for the hosting rights. This continues an alarming drought of high-profile sporting fixtures for the stadium, which is increasingly becoming a serious financial burden for the city.
WP pointed to the South African Rugby Union constitution’s ruling that the the final decision regarding the match venue lies in the hands of the host union. WP and not Saracens are deemed to be the hosts.
In a statement WP said: ‘ After a recent meeting by the Western Province Rugby Football Union Executive Committee, the request by Saracens to host the match at Cape Town Stadium was considered. However, the Executive Committee decided that the home of rugby, Newlands, would stage this historic match.
‘According to the South African Rugby Union Constitution the final decision regarding the match venue lies in the hands of the host union. The WPRFU Executive Committee unanimously agreed that Newlands is currently the home of rugby in the Western Province, and will be treated as such for the foreseeable future. The Western Province Rugby Football Union embraces such a historic match which will form part of the busy 2012 Super Rugby and Test Match schedule at Newlands.’
Meanwhile Saracens issued a carefully worded statement that read: ‘Saracens has noted today’s statement by the Western Province Rugby Union. We are delighted that two world class venues in Cape Town both want to stage the historic Heineken Cup match between Saracens and Biarritz on Saturday January 14. We will now continue detailed discussions with all parties.’
WP also moved to end the ongoing speculation about a potential move to the Cape Town Stadium. ‘There is currently no intention to move WP Rugby to the Cape Town stadium,’ they said.
195 Comments
15 Nov 2011, 12:34 pm
WP not making friends. Daft.
15 Nov 2011, 12:34 pm
strop dragon my….
stop dragon my heart aro-hound…!!
15 Nov 2011, 12:35 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-1:
yeah…
not being sensible at all…
15 Nov 2011, 12:42 pm
stellies mafia in operation
15 Nov 2011, 12:49 pm
Game should be played at Cape Town Stadium. What a pity they will not play there.
15 Nov 2011, 12:54 pm
Stupid Stupid , Now I actually wish WP do move
15 Nov 2011, 12:54 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-4: @PissAnt(PissAnt)-1:
Who are the top dogs at the WPRU? Titus and?
15 Nov 2011, 12:55 pm
This is like having recently added a luxury self-contained guest wing to your house, but then insisting that your in-laws stay in the wendy house behind the garage to get back at your wife for killing the interior decoration budget.
15 Nov 2011, 12:55 pm
@John Galt(John Galt)-7:
Wagner
15 Nov 2011, 13:01 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-9:
Bizarre choice not playing that game at the new stadium. Extremely short sighted.
15 Nov 2011, 13:02 pm
This is just negotions, Mafia style.
They know the City is making a loss on the stadium.
They know the City’s only hope is moving WP to the stadium.
They know by depriving the stadium of this desperately needed fixture, the financial woes of the stadium will only grow more dire.
And therefore they know that the City’s negotiating position will grow weaker as a result, ultimately bringing down the price tag of their eventual move.
Now if they can just cancel the next big international music concert at the stadium on some technicality, they will really be in the pound seats.
Typical gansta style gun-to-the-head negotating tactics.
Just what I would expect of these upstanding citizens.
15 Nov 2011, 13:05 pm
A simple solution to fix this would be to boycott the match. No fans, no revenue. Boycott the stormers warm-up matches as well.
15 Nov 2011, 13:05 pm
It could be a power game.I saw this coming a few days ago when Tobie Titus said that there is no formal relationship between Saracens and WP and that he does not like the arrogant and paternalistic attitude of Edward Griffiths.He might have a bit of a point- it seems to me as if there is a group who are trying to “steamroll” or bully WP into making decisions re the future of Newlands.They will probably eventually move but nobody likes to be pushed around by Griffiths and his kind.
15 Nov 2011, 13:07 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-13:
True what you say there, as well.
Griffiths just looks slimey.
What was the whole controversy with him again, before he skedaddled out the country after the 95 World Cup?
15 Nov 2011, 13:09 pm
Tobie Titus does not have a decision making bone in his body, he’s only there for the finger-food and dop.
15 Nov 2011, 13:09 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-8: I lol’d.
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-11: That’s modern day capitalism, not about being ‘upstanding’.
Personally I just want us to move to the Stadium, if this as Tac points out, is going to help that then all power to them, but as PA says this might anger a lot of people and it simply a case of these guys being incompetent and vindictive.
15 Nov 2011, 13:10 pm
A simple question. Would the excitement be more or less when people know the venue of the game.
15 Nov 2011, 13:10 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-11:
It is a double-edged sword and WP is playing a dangerous game here.
Bullying tactics usually comes around to bite you in the ***. Already there is speculation that Newlands will not be given tier 1 tests in future because they do not comply with minimum stadium standards (requirements) the IRB is busy drawing up for all internationals.
If that does happen the city of CT holds all the aces and WP Rugby will sit with a whole lot of pissed of season ticket holders and suite owners…
15 Nov 2011, 13:11 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-8:
… Hilarious………… hehe
15 Nov 2011, 13:12 pm
At the WP stadium, is the suite revenue equavilant to Newlands? This seems to be the issue in Durban, and I can understand why the KZNRU will not move.
If CT stadium will mean a loss of income for Newlands (in terms of suite revenue), and they will have to pay rent, then why the hell would they move?
15 Nov 2011, 13:15 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-14: at least he is doing wonders for Saracens versus the amateurs that are running SA rugby. Tac you really surprise me….you are judging someone because they ‘look’ slimey?!
15 Nov 2011, 13:16 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-18:
One thing I respect about the management of the Bulls over the last 10 years has been their absolute committment – at least from an outside perspective – to do things right, following the correct procedures, and with ethical business practice supporting it.
Here I have to compliment Barend van Graan in particular. Whether it be negotiations with potential player aquisitions – always transparent and following proper process. Never backhanded or dirty dealings.
Whether it be contractual matters relating to Bakkies Botha or the Bulls Babes issue, always following correct procedure.
And whether it was the whole World Cup Soccer enforced move to the Orlando stadium.
Even if it costs them in the short term, there management has always done the right thing with a long term view in mind.
No shortcuts, no bullying tactics, no quick fixes to problems.
Quite exemplary, really. And some other unions would do well to pay attention to how it should be done.
15 Nov 2011, 13:16 pm
What have WP won in the last 10 years? Stuck in an amateur era. keo your twitter feed is apt.
15 Nov 2011, 13:18 pm
@XV(XV)-21:
No man. I meant that there is some lingering impression regarding Griffiths being involved in some unsavoury stuff before his departure. But I can’t recall what the hoohah was about. I’m surprised, given that it was pretty big news at the time.
But for the life of me I just can’t recall what it was. Something to do with Louis Luyt perhaps?
15 Nov 2011, 13:20 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-13: Also Griffiths wants South Africa to go north to play our rugby! No way, we will slip backwards if we do that.
With the Stadium it would have been a show case for Cape Town if it was played at Cape Town Stadium, a pity it won’t be. Though Titus is right and they can’t tell Province what to do.
15 Nov 2011, 13:21 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-14:
I cannot remember exactly what he did besides writing the autobiography of Naas Botha – could not find anything on google either- only managed to find an Australian firefighter,a royal navy officer and a british sculptor with that name, so he is not so famous after all. Maybe that is why Tobie is not impressed by him
15 Nov 2011, 13:23 pm
@BULLET(BULLET)-20:
If Moses Madhiba hosted 92 events this past fiscal year (almost four times more than CT) and ‘still’ made a R20 odd million loss… CT stadium is in deep kakka… no one Saracens game is going to put a dent in that…
15 Nov 2011, 13:24 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-14:
He was at the forefront of the ‘One Team, One Nation’ movement and wanted to make rugby equal soccer in rural SA. ie take it to the masses.
Unfortunately after SA won, all the Rugby elite were interested in was how much money they could make. He was left out of the Rugby administration meetings after that and fired by fax.
This was when Pienaar and his Lions, who made up the bulk of the SA 1995 side went on strike and Lious Lyt struck a deal with them which effectively began professional rugger in SA.
I wouldnt say slimey. Very shrewd perhaps but not slimey.
15 Nov 2011, 13:24 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-22:
You know my feelings on Barend so nothing to add there.
My frustration with WP rugby is their seeming inability to sit around a table like grown, businessmen, and negotiate and/or plot a course ahead.
Of course there are important issues at hand when considering such a massive task or challenge of moving home grounds or stadiums (most importantly financial issues), all of which can be studied, planned or workshopped around a negotiations table with the various parties involved.
It is not only childish but also embarrassing.
I hope Saracens now cancels this game, gives WP the middle finger and undoubtedly red-faced.
I am also waiting for Vrede to confirm who brokered this deal/match in the first place… Sarries & WP or Sarries and City of CT? I expect its the latter and if it is the case the actions of WP rugby citing a SA Rugby constitutional ruling would be nothing less than pathetic.
15 Nov 2011, 13:24 pm
A little collaboration before they built the stadium would have gone a long way to avoiding this confrontation. I am paying ridiculous property rates for this shiny stadium while these guys try not to blink. Both parties need to realise that they are not in ideal positions and get together to form a compromise. We are beginning to look like the idiots that initially forced the Green Point stadium on Cape Town.
15 Nov 2011, 13:25 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-24: Was it not that he was working with Pienaar, Mulder, Le Roux and some of the wc winners at the time about pushing to go Professional? Can’t remember the full details but think it was something to do with that.
15 Nov 2011, 13:25 pm
Cheeky bastareauds. This is going to get nasty. Why like this?
15 Nov 2011, 13:25 pm
@John Galt(John Galt)-28:
Sorry ‘One team, One Country’
15 Nov 2011, 13:26 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-26:
No there was some big hooha. Wasn’t he involved in Kerry Packers attempt to buy the entire Bok team for some Rebel League after the 95 World Cup?
15 Nov 2011, 13:34 pm
Battle of the egos. So now we all have to sit by while WP flex their muscles and pat themselves on the back for “not being bullied” before eventually agreeing to what is practically inevitable anyway.
15 Nov 2011, 13:36 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-34: Yes something like that, but they also had plenty of the ABs and Oz players in it with them. Eventually it fell away and after that rugby went Professional. They went on strike and LL struck a deal with the Bok squad at the time.
15 Nov 2011, 13:41 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-34: Not Kerry Packer if I remember correct think it was Rupert Murdoch. The same guy that messed up with ‘News of the World’
15 Nov 2011, 13:47 pm
Saracens under Griffiths are making major progress. WP on the other hand are going backwards. A game at the new stadium would be another opportunity to show the public that good rugby deserves to be played in a first class stadium. The bottom line is that SA / WP rugby administrators have been shown up once again for their inability to think big.
15 Nov 2011, 13:49 pm
@XV(XV)-38:
I don’t think the Newlands situation is any different from the King’s Park one.
In both cases a new stadium is being forced onto the rugby unions by cities that didn’t bother to ask their opinions prior to building the white elephants.
WP administration is k*k in general. But that doesn’t change the fact that the stadium issue is none of their doing, and all of the city’s doing. Just like the Moses Mabhide fiasco.
15 Nov 2011, 13:55 pm
Kan Boland wedstryde aanbied in die stadion?
15 Nov 2011, 14:05 pm
Swak Province
15 Nov 2011, 14:05 pm
If this stadium was in the greater Pretoria area, they’d fill it out every week with Mighty Men gatherings.
Now Green Point would also be able to stage their own version of a Mighty Men gathering, but the ratepayers would most certainly protest.
15 Nov 2011, 14:05 pm
Filthy province fat boys …. I bet that Tobie Tightass was behind this creepy move! Can somebody tell why WTF are the WP the “hosts” of this match?
15 Nov 2011, 14:06 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-39: It is a fiasco with the MB stadium Tac, but really what would you do? Sit in a out dated stadium or a modern first world stadium? I would like us to move over the road, but doubt it will happen.
They should have built MB according to Rugby Standards really. Then it was Fifa that ruled on the way the stadiums that got built had to be.
I went to one of the wc soccer games there and it was brilliant. A truely magnificent stadium with first world facilities. Just not enough suites. I thought viewing from there was superb and doubt it would make a difference watching rugby to the soccer we watched.
Have many great, great memories of KP love the stadium, but really it has seen its days. Would really want Sharks to move over the road to MB.
Now that MB is left standing empty. Just think they should have negotiated with Sharks to update their stadium much like Loftus and Ellis Park was done before the wc. Instead of building a brand new one. That way we would have scored and the council would not be sitting with this headache of not knowing what to do with this beautiful stadium that is going to waste and is now costing them a fortune.
15 Nov 2011, 14:06 pm
Has anyone considered that WPRU wouldn’t make any money if the game was played at Greenpoint? Why shouldn’t they object?
15 Nov 2011, 14:09 pm
I am sure they have a good reason that we just dont know about, only logical explanation.
15 Nov 2011, 14:10 pm
@DG(DG)-40:
Ja. hulle kan – soos die warm-up match tussen Boland en Stormers 2 jaar terug to Boland die ‘host unie’ was.
15 Nov 2011, 14:10 pm
@bryce_in_oz(bryce_in_oz)-27: Events like what?? Flower shows? Has Moses had any sold out rock concerts? WP need to make the move sooner or later. International teams will not want to play in an old stadium when a brand spanking new stadium is available just down the road.
15 Nov 2011, 14:13 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-39:
Correct.
Although Moses Mabhida isn’t as much of a burden on Durban rate payers as the new CT stadium is on CT ratepayers.
Largely due to the fact that it is a multi purpose stadium which has hosted numerous PSL games, concerts and even an SA T20 game againt India. Added to this it contains various shops, Virgin Active gym etc whose combined rental revenue helps pay the bills. Not profitable but not a sinking ship either.
Could have been so much better had that ANC brown nose Sutcliffe not approved the plans without the Sharks Unions knowledge.
15 Nov 2011, 14:15 pm
@David(David)-45:
Did they broker the deal? If not, why should they make money?
15 Nov 2011, 14:16 pm
@David(David)-45:
um er because the game has nothing to do with them?
15 Nov 2011, 14:17 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-47: Miskien moet iemand dit vir Griffiths sê. Dan kan Boland ook sommer `n paar rand maak.
15 Nov 2011, 14:18 pm
@Puma(Puma)-44:
FIFA had their rules on how to build the stadium but that did Sutcliffe and his boofs should have consulted with the KZNRU as well.
The KZNRU’s demands on the design of the stadium(suites etc) werent outside the conditions and rules laid down by FIFA.
15 Nov 2011, 14:18 pm
@DG(DG)-52:
Vir daardie spesifieke warm-up match was Boland die ‘host unie’, City of CT het toe na hulle gegaan en aangebied hulle host dit in die CT Stadium wat hulle aanvaar het en toe ook natuurlik gedoen het.
Dit is n opsie.
15 Nov 2011, 14:22 pm
I saw one of the SWC games in Green Point and it was truly spectacular. Not only from a visual and spectator point of view, but also the logic and ease with which you move in and around the stadium. The massive open space around the stadium is so much better than Newlands with its awkward road and rail crossings. And the fact that you pass through gates well away from the stadium and can then enter and exit the stadium itself through many big openings removes that whole claustrophobia vibe and any possibility of a crowd crush. It’s the way all modern stadiums should flow.
15 Nov 2011, 14:25 pm
We should also demand to play one of our ‘club’ games at Wembley.
Maybe Diggers vs Despatch?
15 Nov 2011, 14:26 pm
Besides newlands smells of onions and urine.
15 Nov 2011, 14:27 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-55:
Agree. Cpt Stadium is a marvel!
WP should move there asap.
Same with Lions who should move to Orlando Stadium.
I doubt whether the Sharks can fill that white elephant that makes Kings Park look like the pancake stall.
15 Nov 2011, 14:27 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-57:
onions?
15 Nov 2011, 14:30 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-50:
That’s the whole point. WPRU are the governing body in the WC. Can you imagine if say, the ABs and SA negotiated with Wembley stadium to hold a 3N test match there without asking the English Rugby Board. Essentially, the Euro Cup is a direct competitor to the WPRU when it comes to attracting paying supporters.
15 Nov 2011, 14:32 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-51:
Off course it has. It’s promoting a different tournament in their own backyard.
15 Nov 2011, 14:34 pm
@David(David)-60:
well that’s already happened.
sharks vs last year?
did they have to ask any local clubs for permission?
15 Nov 2011, 14:37 pm
@David(David)-60:
SA Rugby was consulted and approved it.
SA Rugby as part of SANZAR stands to lose by ‘promoting a different or competing tournament’ not WP Rugby or the Stormers.
The fact that it is a rule in SA Rugby’s constitution for the ‘host’ union to sign off such a match is not in question – the fact that its a daft rule is.
In fact, by denying CT Stadium to host a potential harmful product (competition) they should be against hosting the match altogether, not move it to Newlands to make a quick buck on something they had nothing to do with organising in the first place.
The only information I can get my hands on suggests WP Rugby had nothing to do in organising this – which in my view, makes their decision to force it to go to Newlands pathetic on all counts.
15 Nov 2011, 14:37 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-57:
And Green Point stadium smells of snoek, diesel and papsak when the “recreational” fishers land their catches at the nearby Oceana Power boat club.
15 Nov 2011, 14:39 pm
@John Galt(John Galt)-53: They should have but never.
Think Fifa wanted a ‘bowl shape’ like most soccer stadiums are in Europe. Well most of the new bigger stadiums. Think I read Hoskins wanted a square shape and wanted the 400 suites. Nothing came of it. So without the 400 suites doubt we will ever move over unless they can make room for it in MB. Think there are only 135 suites there.
It is a beautiful stadium and the facilities world class compared to KP. I would hope in the future we can move over. Plenty parking there too. Well we park there now. Parking space is big enough for the braais too. So we won’t lose that part..lol. Just doubt they will move over.
15 Nov 2011, 14:40 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-64:
That is not snoek you’re smelling.
It’s the hookers on the mile
15 Nov 2011, 14:40 pm
WTF are WP playing at?
Prats…Pricks and wallys of the highest order…..
Cant believe this….truly a diabolical call…..what a fark up…
15 Nov 2011, 14:43 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-64:
the delicate fragrance of green point douche you mean?
eau de cape town
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-63:
exaclty.
they should just move it back to london.
15 Nov 2011, 14:43 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-62:
I would assume so.
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-63:
I’m not saying I agree, but I can see their logic in wanting part of the revenue. Remember, this is Johan Rupert they’re dealing with, and he’s never had any scruples in poaching our players to build Sarries as an SA side in exile.
I seem to remember him saying that Sarries would be a good experience for young SA players, who would return better for the experience. So far, the only young one he signed is in the England Saxon squad.
15 Nov 2011, 14:45 pm
@David(David)-69:
All I see is ego at work David – not this ‘for our loyal fans’ bullshit they printed in their media release.
I would seriously phone up Boland if I was Rupert and give WP the biggest toffee they would hope to see.
15 Nov 2011, 14:49 pm
@David(David)-69:
Poppycock.
what english clubs got part of the revenue from the sharks crusaders game?
whiich ones gave permission?
15 Nov 2011, 14:52 pm
The simple, trivial things became complicated here, so consider this:
Soccer and rugby are different games
The crowd watching soccer is different than the crowd watching rugby
Thus, the logical deduction is that the two games do not necessarily use the same stadium because of their different needs and different pay crowds.
Also, rugby is thriving on tradition and herritage, the average distance to the pitch etc, for soccer its merely a case of the bigger the better
Have you ever been to the Maracna in Rio ?
The decision where to play is the prerogative of the Rugby Unions and theirs alone
15 Nov 2011, 14:56 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-71:
It was Twickenham, wasn’t it?
15 Nov 2011, 14:58 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-70:
Ego, possibly, but also the chance to rent out Newlands, which is pure business.
15 Nov 2011, 14:58 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-55: Agreed it feels so feels so much roomier than Newlands. You will a different type of supporter coming to green point than the bunch that go to Newlands. I have no doubt tha if Stormers play well, CT stadium will be filled every week. Parking is also so much easier.
15 Nov 2011, 15:02 pm
@David(David)-73:
so which clubs got the money?
none the RFU got the money.
the clubs in the area didn’t insist the game was held at their grounds.
like pissant said it may be in the saru constitution but its bullshit and you know it.
wp did nothing to organise the game.
rupert should take the game to the kings or boland and tell wp to get knotted.
15 Nov 2011, 15:03 pm
Anyone know whether the Biaritz vs Saracens game will be included in Newlands season tickets?
15 Nov 2011, 15:03 pm
in fact the city of cape town should take the gloves off and start losing wp’s liquor license applications.
relook at their rates as well.
15 Nov 2011, 15:05 pm
newlands vs Cape Town Stadium?
Fark me….
FERRARI VS GUNTHERS KIA PICANTO
AND NEWLANDS IS THE PICANTO
15 Nov 2011, 15:07 pm
@David(David)-74:
If it was their game to rent out by all means – it is not.
15 Nov 2011, 15:07 pm
@grant10(grant10)-79:
pipe down poepbroek
the grownups are talking.
go take justfelching for a walk.
15 Nov 2011, 15:07 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-76:
The RFU own Twickenham. SARU don’t own a stadium. Only the WPRU does in the WC. To my mind, SARU screwed up by agreeing to GreenPoint, without first clearing it with the WPRU. Apart from the constitutional issue, it is just plain courtesy to consult the host union.
15 Nov 2011, 15:10 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-78: Yep, that would be appropriate strong-arm tactics. Maybe a bit of “we’ve had complaints from the neighbours – turn it down or we end the party”, plus some checks on music licensing fees for the rubbish they play during breaks. Many ways to skin this one.
15 Nov 2011, 15:13 pm
@David(David)-82:
I disagree.
It goes to the core of what is wrong with rugby in this country.
The RFU DON’T have to consult the local stakeholders to allow a rugby match in the country.
Why should WP be allowed to take over a game they played no role on arranging?
like I said uncle johann should tell Province to get knotted.
15 Nov 2011, 15:13 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-81: FARKIT….WE JUST FINISHED AN HOUR IN THE GYM……i COULDNT WALK ANOTHER STEP EVEN IF I TRIED!
Fark…sorry caps
15 Nov 2011, 15:14 pm
@David(David)-82:
SA Rugby did not need to consult any union, their constitution provides for unions to take charge of the situation once approved.
If anything, Sarries had to negotiate with WP but clearly decided they wanted to play in CT Stadium.
WP in turn pulled rank and cited their constitutional right to have final say on the matter. Of course they are allowed to, its written in the constitution – the fact however that they can earn a quick buck based on a daft rule not being party to any planning or organising of such an event leaves one with a very sour taste.
Again not questioning the rule, questioning WP’s integrity and motives.
BTW, if they HAVE been involved in making this a reality, I will happily eat my words.
15 Nov 2011, 15:16 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-83:
I can see all of that.
traffic issues.
noise levels and refuse.
and the kicker will be a re-assessment of their rate valuation.
they will be forced to sell elstadt and elizabeth to the bulls.
habana will be offloaded to SWD.
jean de villiers will see out his career playing clun rugby in the falkland islands.
15 Nov 2011, 15:19 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-87: Or, even better, just ticket the hell out of each and every car that is parked illegally – even if only half an inch of the wheel is touching the line. If you want people to vote with their feet, then get the traffic department involved.
15 Nov 2011, 15:19 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-86:
All comes down to my very first post on the matter – WP is seemingly making enemies they should not be making – all for a quick buck.
15 Nov 2011, 15:19 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-84: Uncle Johann is already pissed off with WPRFU regarding the WP Performance Institute. Spent all his money on it and now they want to run the show.
15 Nov 2011, 15:20 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-76:
he may do just that…
our johan is not someone who likes to be told what to do…
watch this space…!
15 Nov 2011, 15:20 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-83:
Those long suffering neighbours’ complaints re fans pissing in their gardens, stealing their post boxes and molesting their pets have fallen on death ears for a long time. It will be a bit rich if they start listening to them now.
@Gunther(gunther)-78:
Thats a bit subtle- pity the Russian is dead, otherwise they could have asked him to go and have a quiet word with uncle Tobie.
15 Nov 2011, 15:21 pm
If WP Rugby “currently no intention to move WP Rugby to the Cape Town stadium” Perhaps it is about time they actually started to do some much needed maintenance on the stadium.. And not just their private suite’s and offices.
They could start by looking at the queues of ladies who have to do with the bare minimum toilet facilities. And perhaps those old wooden seats on the railway stand that have not seen a coat of paint for 20 years could be replaced with something with a few less splinters in them…
15 Nov 2011, 15:24 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-92: But that’s the point. It fell on deaf City ears. But the City can suddenly decide to listen, and to start acting on all complaints. If it wants to push WP out of Newlands, it can make life very uncomfortable in the shadow of the mountain.
15 Nov 2011, 15:25 pm
@gretep(gretep)-93:
they could start by upgrading and improving and enlarging the pathetic ‘big’ screen…
fark me that thing is useless…!!
15 Nov 2011, 15:25 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-84:
There are no provincial or county unions in the UK. Only clubs, who have their own grounds. Twickenham is owned by the RFU and doesn’t fall under the auspices of any club, so I don’t see what your argument is based on.
15 Nov 2011, 15:26 pm
wp rugby is a joke….amateyr hour 24….7…
P Grant doing his own Japanese thing……Joe Pietersen farksoff to Fran=ce for 18months….sommer because he feels like taking his model wife over for more assignment prospects……losing Sadie,JJ ,LIONEL….F Louw, et al ….head over foot amateurs……
Now this….
fark me ””its been a long decade I tell you
15 Nov 2011, 15:29 pm
i agree with keos tweet
15 Nov 2011, 15:31 pm
@ufo(ufo)-95: That big screen is shared between cricket and rugby. Can you believe it.
15 Nov 2011, 15:34 pm
@Jeraldjay(Jeraldjay)-99:
yeah.. pathetic…
calling it a big screen is more than it deserves…
15 Nov 2011, 15:35 pm
@Caper(Caper)-77: How much is the season tickets at Newlands?
15 Nov 2011, 15:40 pm
My typical Newlands (Railway Stand) viewing experience involves parking miles away in a dark side street, walking to the stadium, crossing under the railway line in a packed, piss-stench subway, queuing to enter through a nazi-era turnstyle gate, passing dimly-lit kiosks and more piss-stench toilets, trying to find the correct unmarked staircase to inch your way up towards your tiny, splinter-covered wooden seat that faces straight into the setting sun and, if you’re lucky, offers a partial view of the smallest big screen in stadium history. Thank god I support the Lions, otherwise that would be unbearable.
15 Nov 2011, 15:49 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-102: lol
15 Nov 2011, 15:51 pm
Does anyone remember the serious financial problems that the WPRFU had a few years back? I reckon they still need every cent they can lay their hands on.
15 Nov 2011, 15:54 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-102:
It’s a farken rugby stadium FFS, it also happens to be the 2nd oldest in the world , steeped in massive history , so a bit of respect please .
Here’s an idea, stay away !! or upgrade to the grandstand you cheapskate !!
Having said all that , I would like nothing more than a move to the CT stadium, but I don’t like “gauteng foreigners” talking kak about our stadium !!
15 Nov 2011, 15:54 pm
@David(David)-104:
You are 100% correct.
15 Nov 2011, 15:54 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-94: They have in fact said as much. Push them into moving. One way or another…..
15 Nov 2011, 16:01 pm
@justrugby(justrugby)-105: You’re driving round in an ’85 Datsun Pulsar while you’ve been given the keys to a Porsche 911.
Save your nostalgia for your music collection.
15 Nov 2011, 16:04 pm
LOL
Newlands is old and weary…..
Ct Stadium is the way to go
No doubts at all
Katman and Justrugby classic…..loved it…
15 Nov 2011, 16:05 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-102:
Oh come on. I’ve been lucky to go to most stadiums around the country and the atmosphere at Newlands is the best. The Shark Tank is a close second.
15 Nov 2011, 16:06 pm
@justrugby(justrugby)-105: Newlands is old and kak compared to the new stadiums. That goes for Loftus as well. Everything is bloody cramped and its a pain to get in and out.
15 Nov 2011, 16:07 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-102:
add to that some friendly jomaskuldmyhoundnaaigeld for wearing another teams jersey that isn’t the all blacks or the crusaders and its a great day out for all family.
15 Nov 2011, 16:07 pm
newlands is a farken nightmare with the traffic….a farken nightmare I tell you
15 Nov 2011, 16:08 pm
@My nr1 nr2 too(trupisero)-111:
LOL
No doubt…….. time to go !!!
15 Nov 2011, 16:09 pm
fARK…. SORRY CAPS…….
PLOD AND WP ARE FARking UP……… THE COUNTRY and the WORLD AND THE UNIVERSE< INCLUding MADAGASKAR.
15 Nov 2011, 16:11 pm
Never been to Newlands, but it will take a $24billion stadium with automatic cuppachino dispensers under the seats, warm water bidets, Thai massues offering freebies in the aisles and a pre match performance by U2 and Johnny Clegg to beat the Cpt stadium
15 Nov 2011, 16:14 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-70: interesting, so if Boland or SWD were the hosts union what will stop them from using the new stadium
15 Nov 2011, 16:14 pm
@Jeraldjay(Jeraldjay)-110: Come on, we’re not talking about atmosphere here. A shebeen in Langa also has a great atmosphere, but you would host your wedding reception there. We’re talking creaking, smelly infrastructure and ridiculous parking issues vs a truly world class venue with all the mod cons. Trust me, the atmosphere will follow.
Many traditionalists were also against renovating Wembley, or against Arsenal giving up Highbury. But they’re all tjoepstil now, because they know the new one is much better. Stop feeling sorry for Newlands. Check this ikea ad out – kind of sums up this stadium issue: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I07xDdFMdgw
15 Nov 2011, 16:16 pm
@Roar my Lions …. Currie Cup Champions 2011(RL)-117:
Geography?
15 Nov 2011, 16:17 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-108:
Yeah, but the Datsun is paid for and we can’t afford the petrol to run the Porsche.
15 Nov 2011, 16:20 pm
@David(David)-120: so now you protest at the fuel station when the Porsche wants to fill up?
15 Nov 2011, 16:22 pm
OFF THE TOPIC a bit but: trying to bring some perspective to Solly tragic incident
For all those thinking Solly was maybe involved in criminal activity or something. Tyibilika & his other mates had no criminal records.All were former sportstars to a certain level. There was ONE gun found amongst all 3 of them yes illegal but no big arsenal etc
I will tell you what most likely happened: Nothing criminal at all. If you have lived/hang out in the locations/townships and especially in taverns etc one will come into contact with people who are bad news & are resentful or who you are(sports stars/model C boys etc) and already you are vulnerable. Some of these people are the neighbourhood hoodlum,gun wielding nothing to lose types. And all it takes is a argument/misunderstanding when drunk or taking someone’s girl to lose your life in that environment. You get into a scuffle,f*ck somebody up while your boys jump for you etc then ALL of you are targets.Threats are made against your lives, get a weapon to protect yourselves-cheap in the hood(probably illegal).
You get caught on your lonesome….And its over for you. As all 3 were executed.
If you understand the dynamics that exist in township then this story will make sense.
15 Nov 2011, 16:22 pm
@David(David)-120: It also conks out on Hospital Bend at least once a month in rush hour traffic.
15 Nov 2011, 16:26 pm
Can’t understand WP. Trade the old dump for a new modern stadium. Same goes for the Lions, only problem is that they’ll battle to fill FNB. If Loftus was as run-down and poorly accessible as Newlands I would support a move for my beloved Bulls. Fortunately Loftus has been modernized over the years, but parking is a mess.
Maybe WP needs to relocate to break their trophy drought
15 Nov 2011, 16:26 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-122: I was thinking the same thing. Well put!!!
15 Nov 2011, 16:28 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-122: Perhaps, but Solly himself admitted that he had gotten himself involved in the wrong crowd, and that he had to turn things around. Then he gets bust for an unlicensed gun. And the he gets killed. Without sounding disrespectful, your township story doesn’t take away any suspicions.
15 Nov 2011, 16:30 pm
@Beast(Beast)-124: I dont think you realise the significance of Ellis / Coca Cola park … especially for the Boks …. Ellis Park is a fortress , the only stadium in the world that the Abs fear – Soweto just doesnt seem to have the same vodoo
15 Nov 2011, 16:30 pm
@David(David)-120: Thats funny.
15 Nov 2011, 16:37 pm
@Jeraldjay(Jeraldjay)-128: Howdy JJ – remember me? I told you to fckoff, you stupid threadkiller ;0
Sorry, warped sense of humour at the best of times. And your comment on the thread the other day made perfectly good sense. In fact, I too remember the Donald incident. Anyway, hope you’re not always so serious and defensive. D00s ;0
15 Nov 2011, 16:39 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-122: sounds very much like the situation which faces many US rap artists, the ‘hood’ where they grew up becomes a trap, so many talents end up losing their lives.
15 Nov 2011, 16:40 pm
@Jeraldjay(Jeraldjay)-128:
It’s also true, unfortunately. WP learned the hard way, to live within their means.
15 Nov 2011, 16:40 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-126:
Thats fine I dont really care about your suspicions. Where did Solly admit that he got involved with wrong people? The wrong crowd may not mean criminals,just people who took you away from focus of your goals ie: rugby.(Party-goers etc)
And again I stress,none of the 3 had any criminal records or any prior links with criminal activity.
So keep your suspicions.Its cool,I will keep my suspicions of the Lions organisation & characters like MacDonald,Boshoff<De Klerk with shaddy handling of Gumede deal while paying uir 2mil a year for nothing etc
Its cool
15 Nov 2011, 16:41 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-102:
funny thing is its got the highest stadium attendance record in the history of the s15 as well cc.
15 Nov 2011, 16:41 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-122: plausible, but dude when you got beef with aboskhotheni from the hood you don’t hang THERE, unless you’re know you’re charles bronson or you got MAD connects. there’s no valour in dying senselessly over hood sshit!
#justsayin
15 Nov 2011, 16:43 pm
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-130:
Well mate it might sounds like something out of a John Singleton/Spike Lee movie that have been overdone but its a reality which is why the NFl/NBA/MLB now have REAL mentorship programmes to deal with such pressures.
15 Nov 2011, 16:44 pm
@Finfan(Finfan)-129: Hi Finny. No worries. Was waiting for you to post again to catch up.
First time I was target on Keo.Just need to get battle hardened I reckon.
15 Nov 2011, 16:44 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-132: That’s just stupid, turning this into a *** for tat game. Face it, if Solly was white, given the same set of evidence, you and I would be agreeing here. So my suspicion says that Solly and his friends weren’t entirely innocent in all of this. Tough titties if that doesn’t sit well with you.
15 Nov 2011, 16:45 pm
For once I agree with the WP board. Why the hell would you have to fork out R700k for the use of the stadium and pay the council an additional % of the gate takings when you can pack Newlands to the rafters and make a healthy profit as well!?!?!?
15 Nov 2011, 16:49 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-134:
Ndoda you know this sh*t happens.Nothing about plausibility. And most likely Solly ebenekhanda eliqinile(hard headed). Kodwa akufunekanga ukuthi yonke lento ifike lapho.
No valour at all, I hate the hood in that sense but there are people who go back njalo. Whether prominent or not. Its still where YOUR people live.Remember that
15 Nov 2011, 16:52 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-137:
Not stupid at all, you pointing fingers when there is no evidence to backup your claim nor to dispute my analogy.And i know what its like to live there & one of my brother’s died the same way.Unneccessary BS. Never said they were totally exempt but dont think it was some criminal activity etc As none of the deceased had any real links prior to such.
So again keep your opinions/suspicions.
15 Nov 2011, 16:56 pm
“If you understand the dynamics that exist in township then this story will make sense.”
I hate lines like this.
Patronising kuk.
15 Nov 2011, 16:56 pm
@Jeraldjay(Jeraldjay)-136: Yip, it is easy to be brave when anonymous. I suppose it is unlikely that someone would jump out of the pc screen and moer you with his keyboard.
I enjoyed myself but knew you’d be shocked by the unreasonable attack. I’ve been to see my therapist and she suggested that I do this whole confession thing. Much weight off my shoulders and maybe I’ll get some sleep tonight.
15 Nov 2011, 17:00 pm
i see american college football in huge kak as well with all sorts of maladminiustration, etc…
also some coach raping young kids!!!! Like 8 year old boys!!FFS!!
World is mad…..
Any more news re Roebuck?
15 Nov 2011, 17:03 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-137:
And likes of James Dalton,Japie Mulder, Joost etc have been known to have links with individuals(ie:Cyril Beeka,Ralph Heyns etc) far more dubious than anything mentioned regarding Tyibilika.
15 Nov 2011, 17:04 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-144:
…and those links raise suspicions in all of us, don’t they?
15 Nov 2011, 17:05 pm
@grant10(grant10)-143: Don’t tell us, we know. Its all because of pLOD. Fark mE.
15 Nov 2011, 17:05 pm
@Dawn(Dawn)-141:
How is that patronising Dawn?
And secondly,remove that line-is the rest of the story out of context?
15 Nov 2011, 17:06 pm
@Helen(Helen)-145:
I dont know,you tell me? I dont seem to hear anything from anyone regarding that….
15 Nov 2011, 17:07 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-139: i know it happens, just saying if you have to roll in the night without your lights on and pack unlicenced heat, then hanging in THAT hood is not worth it.
15 Nov 2011, 17:08 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-144:
Dude, there is no evidence whatsoever that Solly was a criminal.
BUT…. you have to admit having an unlicensed firearm and driving slowly at night with your headlights off, does not sound very kosher… Nor does the fact that 2 of his friends have been assassinated over recent weeks. To make those kind of enemies you have to have pisssed off some seriously violent people.
No hard evidence, just suspicions….. and unanswered questions and weird circumstances
15 Nov 2011, 17:09 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-148:
Because they are not in the limelight at the moment.
When they were, all sorts of questions were asked.
They were also not murdered….
15 Nov 2011, 17:12 pm
@Dawn(Dawn)-141:
Indeed.
ANC
Townships
Rap music
Basketball
Off limit discussions for white people.
Different dynamic.
15 Nov 2011, 17:15 pm
@Finfan(Finfan)-146: sharkievarkie…….go fARk yourself…
15 Nov 2011, 17:16 pm
WTF is white people?
15 Nov 2011, 17:17 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-152: sshit stirrer! nc nc nc
15 Nov 2011, 17:19 pm
I think that if I lived in a township I’d pack heat. If I couldn’t get one the legal way, i’d not think twice about getting one the other way. So that in itself doesn’t mean all that much to me.
What for me rasies more questions is the fact that the friends he was with have all been killed recently with him alledgedly being a specified target at the tavern, according to an eyewitness.
That is bound to raise questions. I mean i know life can be tough in the hood, but this doesn’t appear to be random.
For whatever reason.
He’s still dead though, which is unfortunate.
15 Nov 2011, 17:21 pm
@grant10(grant10)-154: You know……. John Smit. Alistair Coetzee. Gert Smal. Mark keo (once upon a time)
Not Victor Matfield apparently.
15 Nov 2011, 17:22 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-156: let me rephrase that. I pack heat and i live in the burbs. Up North nogal.
If I lived in the hood I’d pack a semi auto shotgun……
Oh wait……
15 Nov 2011, 17:25 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-157: farken strange in the 21 st century to still be grouping people on the basis of color….irritates the hell out of me…
15 Nov 2011, 17:25 pm
@Helen(Helen)-151: I think what you are trying to say is that Solly shouldn’t be remembered as a criminal, based on suspicions.
Judging from the thread yesterday, most people, including myself, will remember him as a very good rugby player, but who lost the plot a bit unfortunately.
15 Nov 2011, 17:25 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-155:
Not at all.
Whenever this stuff comes up there is always some patronising punk who says YOU don’t understand the dynamic. It was the same when people were talking about the ANC the othet day.
Patronising kuk.
Nobody said the guy WAS a criminal and I suspect the truth will come out eventually if they catch the mofos who took him down.
Up until then its all conjecture whether you “understand the dynamic or not”
15 Nov 2011, 17:26 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-158: bring it to Newlands on the 14 th….there is a fatboy who should get a blast up his fatarse
15 Nov 2011, 17:27 pm
world has gone befok
15 Nov 2011, 17:27 pm
@grant10(grant10)-162: LOL I might use it on a Stormersader before i even get into the stadium.
15 Nov 2011, 17:28 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-161: Do you feel ……”lucky?”………..punk?….
Well do ya?……….
15 Nov 2011, 17:31 pm
farkit….gotta wait till 14 jan for some rugger….going to get withdrawal symptons soon….life is a tad farken strangew without my WP/ Stormers fix….
15 Nov 2011, 17:34 pm
@grant10(grant10)-166: You’d be able to watch NH rugby. You indicated that its your preference anyway?
15 Nov 2011, 17:43 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-158: damn dawg never took you for a trigger happy chappy…lol
15 Nov 2011, 17:46 pm
Go on Province, screw the city and pick up the Green point stadium for peanuts when the city can no longer afford it!
15 Nov 2011, 17:47 pm
@Dawn(Dawn)-141: not everyone knows the inner workings of the hood dawn, nothing patronising about that…suck it up
i know the hood i was raised in but i most definitely won’t feck around in Umlazi like i know it’s spots hell no.
15 Nov 2011, 17:48 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-168: Say hello to my leeetle friend!
15 Nov 2011, 18:21 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-171: hehe let me not find out you braggin about heat meanwhile u pack a 22…
you get b!tch slapped for that nonsense
15 Nov 2011, 18:24 pm
Finfan …
15 Nov 2011, 18:24 pm
Are you still here …
15 Nov 2011, 18:27 pm
OoOoo!!!!!!
The inner workings of the feckin’ hood.
I’m s h I t ting myself.
15 Nov 2011, 19:31 pm
@Dawn(Dawn)-175: i guess i can’t stop you if you insist on feeling patronised
15 Nov 2011, 19:41 pm
M W A
Mhlungus with Atittude.
15 Nov 2011, 19:41 pm
Moi?
Never.
Your hood is my salon.
15 Nov 2011, 19:46 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-177: you mean M L U N G U
ja boet, daai francois hougaard is ‘n MWA vir seker.
15 Nov 2011, 19:54 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-179:
Fuckdapolis
15 Nov 2011, 19:55 pm
The report below does not say how long he has been signed for. If it turns out the Sharks have let him go (ie he won’t be available for next year’s S15) then BIG questions need to be asked about the Sharks’ one way recruitment turnstile which has seen promising players in Rhodes, Mostert, Cilliers, Van Staden etc leave with no adequate replacements signed up…
Biarritz – South African prop Eugene Van Staden returned to French club rugby for a second spell on Tuesday when Top 14 tailenders Biarritz signed him as a replacement for the retired Eduard Coetzee.
Van Staden, 31, played for Montpellier from 2007-2010 before returning to South Africa to play for the Sharks.
Biarritz, five-time French champions and twice European Cup finalists, hope to have him able to play in Saturday’s European Cup match with Saracens and have sent his file to the tournament organisers, European Rugby Cup (ERC), so they declare him eligible.
Coetzee had announced on Monday he was retiring after being told by doctors that he had taken too many blows to the head.
The 32-year-old South African-born naturalised Frenchman– who has been at Biarritz since 2007 – said he had sought advice from several specialists before taking the decision.
15 Nov 2011, 19:57 pm
Yay gunther give it up.
You have no street cred here!
15 Nov 2011, 20:04 pm
@Dawn(Dawn)-182:
I’m a loser baby
So why don’t you kill me?
With apologies to Beck.
15 Nov 2011, 20:28 pm
Fuckmeslowlyonthefloor Timothy!
15 Nov 2011, 20:33 pm
Things I have learnt about Helen.
Works for a rich guy who doesn’t seem to mind having blood splayed all over his yacht
Has several mega degrees
Uses loaves of bread as tampons
Sometimes needs a man to help remove said tampons
Plays with her **** using a staple remover
15 Nov 2011, 20:37 pm
@Dawn(Dawn)-184:
Be there in ten.
15 Nov 2011, 20:39 pm
Do you remotely resemble timothy olyphant.
(Where did he get that surname!)
15 Nov 2011, 20:43 pm
@Dawn(Dawn)-187:
Sorry only in the trouser dept.
Am turning around to go home.
15 Nov 2011, 20:45 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-132: Come on, don’t be naive. It was reported in many sources at the time that he had fallen in with the wrong crowd. And we both know that this didn’t refer to simply taking his focus off the game. He got involved with violent people who resolve problems with violent means. And that’s also sad, but let’s not sugarcoat it just because he was black and you wanted him to succeed. I’m not going to trawl the net for evidence, but here is at least one article where a friend backs this view up:
http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/pleas-for-donations-to-bury-tyibilika-1.1178614
I feel bad for how things ended for him. I’m sorry that he ended up broke and down, and that he met a violent end. But to simply say that’s township life, and if you don’t live there you won’t understand just doesn’t cut it. I might as well say that if you didn’t grow up in an Afrikaans home in Pretoria, you wouldn’t understand what made the Waterkloof 4 do what they did.
No, we all take responsibility for our actions and our path in life. That’s the only way it can work.
15 Nov 2011, 20:46 pm
Shattered I am.
15 Nov 2011, 20:50 pm
lol
16 Nov 2011, 06:32 am
@Gunther(gunther)-152:
Yoh speak for yourself brah… I was going to Mzoli’s before Hymphatic Thabs had smoked his first batch of Lesotho Gold in Maseru junior high!
16 Nov 2011, 07:15 am
show me the prison show me the jail
Show me the prisoner who’s life has gone stale
And I’ll show you young man with so many reasons why
There but for fortune go you or I
Show me the alley show me the drain
Show me the hobo who sleeps out in the rain
And I’ll show you young man with so many reasons why
There but for fortune go you or I
16 Nov 2011, 07:43 am
Last I heard Joan was living in a tree-house with a wooden sculpture of Bob… far too much LSD in the 60′s…
16 Nov 2011, 09:40 am
@>^..^< katman(katman)-189:
Not naive in the least bit. Again you fail to see the point. Solly may have mismanaged his finances etc and that was through his own doing but nothing points to him being involved in any real criminal activity nor any gang involvement as the article states.
And there you go linking 2 things that are really at obtuse ends with each other. Solly committed no crime(s) etc The gun that was found in car is believed to have been Maguqu’s who was earlier gunned down in the week.(By the way the 3rd friend Shumane is STILL ALIVE not dead as falsely reported). The Waterkloof 4 killed a homeless man….
What has Tyibilika been found to be guilty of exactly? His own mismanagement of finances & rugby career which he was also let down by the system especially at Lions that have upkept relationships & supported far more sinister individuals than Solly. The township analogy looking at the vague circumstances of his passing as well as there being NO REAL evidence of criminal wrong doing on his behalf nor any of his friends(no link to gangs,no criminal records etc) is pretty apt at the juncture. I have seen it happen before.
So if it doesnt cut it for you then so be it.But that doesnt mean that it doesnt hold any credibility especially looking at the circumstances.
Im basing that analogy on situation I have experienced and have seen,applicable to this type of situation from where I stand. If thats naive then all those years i lived in BB section Umlazi Township & G section Kwamashu Township and the things I saw and heard were a figment of my imagination.As some know better as the social scientists they are.
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