Spies to lead Bulls
16 Nov 2011
Pierre Spies has been awarded the Bulls captaincy while Wynand Olivier has been named as his deputy.
The Bulls have lost a number of senior players to overseas contracts and retirement. Danie Rossouw, Bakkies Botha, Gary Botha and Gurthro Steenkamp will continue their careers abroad, while Victor Matfield will hang up his boots after the Barbarians vs Wallabies clash at the end of the month.
Spies was up against Chiliboy Ralepelle for the Bulls captaincy, and the Bulls management felt the Bok No 8 was the right man to succeed Matfield. This despite Ralepelle’s record at age group level (he captained the Baby Boks to a World Championship title in 2005) and the fact that he’s already led the senior Bok team, albeit in two tour matches.
‘It was not such a big surprise though, as I had it in the back of my mind that I could be asked to lead the team when Victor retired,’ Spies said. ‘I was privileged in my career at the Bulls and the Springboks to play with great captains and I could certainly learn a lot from them.
‘I believe a captain should lead from the front and I hope that will be something that I can do successfully. There are huge challenges ahead, but we are all looking forward to that. This group is younger than in previous years, but we have the same goals as those squads and that is to win the competition.’
Meanwhile, Spies’s vice-captain will be sidelined for the next two months. Olivier has undergone a shoulder operation and will only be available to the Bulls in early February.
‘I like that responsibility. Anyone who wants to write off the Bulls because we lost players, do so at their own peril. I think we have a squad that can with the competition again. There are new faces, so there will be a challenge to make sure all share the same vision, but I see no problems in that. We have a great management team and coaching staff and they will get everyone to pull in the same direction.’
419 Comments
16 Nov 2011, 11:27 am
Tacitus,
If you really believe this one to be a good decision, you’re smoking the good stuff.
All part of Heyneke and co. plan to keep Spies in the Springbok squad. We’re going to have to put up with this guy becoming a 100-cap Springbok before long.
This is like something from Onion News. Worst decision the Bulls could’ve made.
16 Nov 2011, 11:31 am
Invisible Man And Meisiekind!!
Bwhahahahaha!
16 Nov 2011, 11:38 am
@pokkel(pokkel)-2:
Heyneke trying to prove some kind of point.
Won’t work though. I thought they had a genuine shot with the players they’ve brought in, but this is a terrible way to start.
16 Nov 2011, 11:39 am
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-1: Don’t be such a pessimist. Spies’ aura will ensure that the Bulls become champions again.
16 Nov 2011, 11:42 am
That is some funny **** right there.
Imagine the warm up speech.
‘Ok boys, lets drive them back when we tackle them and lets get over the advantage line with ball in hand!’
Talk about not leading by example.
16 Nov 2011, 11:43 am
Bully Boys mid table at best.
The Side-Winder should be left to work on his own game.
This added responsibility will not help him or the Bulls.
16 Nov 2011, 11:43 am
If a white coach is appointed, the Bok captain will have to be black i.e. chiliboy.
The Bulls missed an opportunity to let Chiliboy gain experience and credibility as captain.
Poor decision in light of the above.
16 Nov 2011, 11:44 am
Great News for all the Other Contenders.
16 Nov 2011, 11:45 am
@Finfan(Finfan)-7:
That’s a silly statement to make, and very untrue.
16 Nov 2011, 11:48 am
The Bulls have certainly missed an opportunity,they would have become trendsetters,trailblaizers,the first union out of the big four to play in the township,the first union to have a black captain,a merit one nogal.They would have got a lot more supporters from an untapped market.Sadly they chose to give it to Pierre,who if he is going to lead by example,the Bulls will be continually going backwards in tackles.Sad.
16 Nov 2011, 11:48 am
terrible choice.
reminds me of 2008 when fdp was cappie.
eina!
16 Nov 2011, 11:49 am
Seriously though, who else is senior enough to lead the side?
Would have maybe looked at Pottie. But then again the coach is probably concerned that he wont command a starting spot.
Chilli? Not a bad option and will certainly start.
Steggies?
16 Nov 2011, 11:54 am
I hope this doesn’t mean Spies will keep his place in the Bok team. As a Stormers fan, however, this makes me smile.
16 Nov 2011, 11:55 am
Oh lord. Imagine Spies as Bok captain if Meyer is appointed as Bok coach.
16 Nov 2011, 11:55 am
Seems like they’ve gone for looks over leadership here.
Cappie + Vice-cappie = Modern Talking album cover.
16 Nov 2011, 11:56 am
Spies’ version of a rampaging Bull is one in 5th gear turbo-reverse in the tackle.
16 Nov 2011, 11:57 am
So much of funny
16 Nov 2011, 11:58 am
@Michael(mikeybrass)-14:
Gosh. That would be a nightmare.
16 Nov 2011, 11:59 am
@Izwe Lethu(Koos van der merwe)-10: Very true. I hope the Sharks recruit him. Bismarck is much better suited to a role on the bench. He has gained invaluable experience in this important role.
16 Nov 2011, 12:00 pm
Pre-match psyche-up song in the dressing room: You can win if you want
16 Nov 2011, 12:00 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-18: It’s almost enough to make me wish Meyer doesn’t become Bok coach.
Overlooking Chil in favour of Dummy Tackle and Shampoo Boy is criminal.
16 Nov 2011, 12:03 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-15: Looks? LOOKS? The UnHulk and a walking advert for Cost Cutters?????
16 Nov 2011, 12:03 pm
Where are all the Bulls fans?
16 Nov 2011, 12:03 pm
Zwe Lethu brada tell me why do you believe the appointment of Chiliboy would mean they are trail blazers? While I await your response let me venture as follows:-On the one hand I contend that Chiliboy very soon would force the Bulls Management to change their decision if he stays fit and he plays constantly and improves:- On the other hand I believe that this decision was a business decision. One he is one of the senior players and has played more games than Chiliboy. Two I mean with no facts at hand that the Bulls Management wanted somebody that appeals to their key constituency/market. Spies is very marketable fella I have seen him in many adverts and I have met many young rugby guys bench marking their gym proficiencies along standards set by Spies. Lets agree that he is not very bad as a players. I conclude by saying lets give this decision a benefit of doubt……
16 Nov 2011, 12:07 pm
I reckon Spies cracked the nod on the basis of his vertical lunges alone. Something to behold.
And Timotei was the only other guy over 24.
16 Nov 2011, 12:09 pm
@Michael(mikeybrass)-22:
look it’s true we have a long way to go to match the standards of the stormers squad who see more injuries on the waxing table than they do on the rugby field.
who can ever forget the horrible manscaping incident involving peter pan grant and jean de villiers last year?
even seasoned paramedics were dropping like flies.
16 Nov 2011, 12:11 pm
Hehehe this is really funny news
16 Nov 2011, 12:11 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-26: The Bulls have no right to wax on about waxing while Shampoo remains on the field
16 Nov 2011, 12:12 pm
@Tito(Tito)-24: Being a TV ad star guarantees success as a captain? Sure. Chiliboy doesn’t feature in any TV ads, so rule him out.
Real Bulls logic.
16 Nov 2011, 12:15 pm
So it seems that PDV”s decision to consider wasn’t too crazy at all. Seems Heyneke learned from “the special one”.
16 Nov 2011, 12:16 pm
@Michael(mikeybrass)-28:
look they are all pretenders to the throne of the uber man ***** Percy.
And we all know where he went to school don’t we?
16 Nov 2011, 12:17 pm
Strange choice
dont think Bulls supporters going 2 be happy, i dont think he is a good player at all, should not hv been in the Bok squad. Should rather have chosen meisiekind, he defends well and has played well at the Bulls.
With that selection by Meyer, i worry what his Bok choices would be.
16 Nov 2011, 12:18 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-31: Monty was one year ahead of me at school after he failed Matric first time. He was a trend setter. Shampoo is well the Cost Cutters version
16 Nov 2011, 12:19 pm
@Tito(Tito)-24: Tito, so your primary considerations for being a captain are tv ad time and a pale skin because of all the pale skin supporters? I’ll build a bridge for you so that you can get over it.
16 Nov 2011, 12:21 pm
FinFan that is not what I a driving at, in fact the core of my message is this – Chiliboy has not played as many games in the past due to injuries. It is in the past season that we began to see him deliver some of his promise as a player. Lets see how he fares this coming season and I believe if he can play more games and stay fit, Bulls Management might be forced to review their decision.
On the other hand Spies has also overcome adversity and played more games both as a Bulls player and a Springbok. Compared to the 2 Spies is senior and has more kms than Chiliboy. Last rugby is a business as well and I argue his marketability must have played a role.
Lastly I am no Bulls fan, would say I am a rugby fan>>>>>>>
16 Nov 2011, 12:22 pm
i like this
16 Nov 2011, 12:24 pm
Lead from the front? Spies???
16 Nov 2011, 12:25 pm
@Tito(Tito)-24:
They had opportunity to become a brand that appeals to South Africans from all walks of life,a brand that people can identify with.We all know that up North(Gautend North and Limpopo)Rugby is not a prominent sport amongst people of colour,the appointment of Chilli as captain would have done them wonders,the Bulls are a succesfull brand as it is,but this would have put them way above anybody else,they definitely missed an opportunity.
Dont underestimate the effect of “other factors’ when it comes to Rugby,Peter de Villiers was not kidding when he said he had mate the boks a people’s team.His appointment actually garnered the Boks a lot of supporters,especially from people who viewed rugby as a white sport played by pot bellied Afrikaner men.Pdv’s appointment brought a lot of positive things especially off the field,just a pity he could not match on field matters to the off fiield success.
16 Nov 2011, 12:26 pm
@Tito(Tito)-35: Plus, Chiliboy is a little too tanned for Loftus, not true?
16 Nov 2011, 12:26 pm
@Izwe Lethu(Koos van der merwe)-10: Bullsh*t man. Chilli is unfortunately a walking sick note.
Had his best season to date but he is an injury magnet…..always has been.
Having said that I am looking forward to seeing him in action next year if he can continue the form he had this year.
16 Nov 2011, 12:27 pm
@Michael(mikeybrass)-33:
It’s ok.
You were young and easily led.
don’t beat yourself up about it.
what happened in the 90′s stays in the 90′s.
16 Nov 2011, 12:29 pm
Indeed.
lets see chilli spend more time on the pitch than the physio’s bench.
Then we’ll have this chat.
16 Nov 2011, 12:30 pm
Pompies 2 I am very reluctant to move in the direction you have taken. But let me state this – marketability of a team such as Bulls should be a consideration for team management when deciding who should lead a team. This is so because when all is said and done money is important. Perhaps it is not the only consideration.
What I would like to hear from you is whether I am completely off the mark when I assert that Spies fits well with the core market of the Bulls Organization. I argue that he is also a senior player that has played more games than Chiliboy. I am not saying Chiliboy is not a contender in fact I say if he remains healthy and accumulates more games he will soon force management to review their decision.
16 Nov 2011, 12:30 pm
@Izwe Lethu(Koos van der merwe)-38: Why should the Bulls name a captain for the sake of ‘doing the right thing for the people’ Kak man!! Where does it leave the other unions?
IMO. Dewald should have cracked the nod ahead of Spies
16 Nov 2011, 12:31 pm
@KWAGGA ROBERTSE(KWAGGA ROBERTSE)-40: A walking sicknote and a little too dark for the Loftus faithful. Not true?
16 Nov 2011, 12:31 pm
As n Bull ondersteuner voel ek baie ongemaklik hieroor, Spies is n great mens en so, maar sy rugby vorm is nie goed nie. Inteendeel ek sal Arno Botha bo hom kies, maar nou ja op die oopmblik is daar nie veel manne wat kan instaan as kaptein nie. n kaptein moet eers op die veld lei deur voorbeeld voor hy n kaptein kan wees. En om eerlik te wees spies is nie in goeie vorm nie. ek wil nie n doemprofeet wees nie maar dit is nie die regte keuse vir my nie.
16 Nov 2011, 12:32 pm
@KWAGGA ROBERTSE(KWAGGA ROBERTSE)-44:
Is Dewaldt even a definite starter??
He wouldn’t be if I picked the team.
16 Nov 2011, 12:34 pm
so the kakkest forward is captain and the kakkest back vice?
eish…
16 Nov 2011, 12:34 pm
@Finfan(Finfan)-45: Nothing to do with the tan bud. Steer clear
@pokkel(pokkel)-47: Dewald had a kak season, granted but he does show a lot of leadership capabilities which we seriously lacked with Gary Botha this season.
16 Nov 2011, 12:36 pm
@Izwe Lethu(Koos van der merwe)-38:you reckon people will like the bulls because a black guy is their captain?
i honestly think you’re over-rating this whole captaincy thing. chiliboy captaining the bulls would mean zilch to people in limpopo. this is the kind of “hot dog & coke” transformation that will not see us get anywhere.
Neil Tovey was chief and bafana captain, you reckon that made SOME white folks who had NO interest in football like kaizer chiefs & bafana bafana?
16 Nov 2011, 12:38 pm
Zwe Lethu I agree with you but I submit to you that a Chiliboy that stays healthy this coming season and gets more game time would be in a much much more stronger position to achieve what you are saying. My only contention is that lets not push too soon or out of timing emerging black talent to positions they a capable of doing when they need a little more time to develop into those positions.
From my observations I believe that out of all Top 5 or 6 Provincial Unions, the Bulls Union is the only one that seems to have had a practicable and sustainable integration strategy/transformation in teams of developing or buying black players and ensuring they perform at higher level. The possibility of getting Chiliboy as a captain is within reach and the only obstacle for me is for him to play more games and remain healthy
16 Nov 2011, 12:38 pm
@KWAGGA ROBERTSE(KWAGGA ROBERTSE)-44:
ek dink nie potties is meer n seker keuse met Jaques potgieter, Arnol botha, en steggies daar nie. my loosies vir bulle sal wees.
8 botha
7 jaques potgieter
6 steggies
16 Nov 2011, 12:40 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-50:
anyway.
xhosakid reliably informs us that black people only support the bulls to suck up to their bosses.
(I hear Patrice is a big bulls fan)
Real rugby afficionados like himself support province.
16 Nov 2011, 12:40 pm
with no derick hougaard and Hurdles gone, Johan Sadie is the new ‘LIEFLING”
16 Nov 2011, 12:40 pm
A lot of unhappy supporters from other unions on this thread.
Very strange.
16 Nov 2011, 12:41 pm
Disappointed. For me the obvious contenders had to be Slangkos and Chilli with Spies a very distant 3rd.
However.
It is what it are.
Spies to captain the Bulls and he will enjoy my full support from here on in.
16 Nov 2011, 12:43 pm
@vasteses(vasteses)-52: Ek **** jou maar sonder iemand wat leiding kan neem is ons in ons hel in en van die beskikbare ouens is Potties die beste…….eina ene hierdie.
Maar die besluit is geneem en dis Spies s’n om te maak of breek.
16 Nov 2011, 12:44 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-53: maybe. they’re also very likely to be Man U & Ferrari fans, not so much of the latter nowadays as Schumi left and Massa & Alonso are ripping up the track.
16 Nov 2011, 12:44 pm
**** = h o o r
Ryan weer glue gesnuif vanmore……………
16 Nov 2011, 12:44 pm
@Tito(Tito)-43: Why would it not work conversely? So, because you have a poster-boy, you have to make him the captain of the team. Last I recalled, Smit was supported/vilified by all supporters, not just a certain demographic.
16 Nov 2011, 12:45 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-53: yes Patrice said he was a bulls fan. he went to an Afrikaans High School somewhere in the free state, i think.
16 Nov 2011, 12:45 pm
Spies was always the only logical choice.
16 Nov 2011, 12:45 pm
”I believe a captain should lead from the front” – The ruck inspector explains why he shouldn’t be captain, it’s the funniest thing ever!
Johan Cruijf allways said you make your best player captain. In adversity teammates look to either the best player or the captain to pass the ball to, it simplifies matters if that is the same person.
Spies has all the attributes to be a great player, except for one- He has no ticker
16 Nov 2011, 12:46 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-55: can’t imagine you’re happy with the invisible man?
16 Nov 2011, 12:46 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-55:
Not unhappy at all. In fact this is great fun.
I’m very happy with the choices that were made.
16 Nov 2011, 12:47 pm
Transformation I reckon that Chiliboy appointment as a Captain of the Bulls would definitely affect the lives of black young people in every corner of this country. Remember the power of this mass media included is the mobile phone that knows no boundaries.
My only concern is let’s not push the young man too soon instead lets allow him some time to accumulate more game time and to enhance his credentials in a field of play as a player with no added responsibilities
16 Nov 2011, 12:47 pm
@Stiff-arm(Stiff-arm)-63: heard they even used a body double for him on the Outsurance ads – too much contact involved
16 Nov 2011, 12:48 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-61:
which boss is he impressing?
must be another “dynamic
16 Nov 2011, 12:50 pm
For the guys punting Chilli, can you imagine the pressure he would be under if this young Bulls team have a below par season next year?
Accusations of quota, token, political appointment etc. would houng him, and his career would take a nose dive.
The Bulls have done the right thing by giving the captaincy to their most senior Bok. If Chilli remains injury free and mature along with this team, it would be much better for him to take over in a few years time, rather than now.
Once again, the union has thought of the player’s best interest, and not just the best marketing mileage they could get out of him.
Well done, Bulls.
16 Nov 2011, 12:50 pm
Well if he is captain of the Bulls, he must be a strong contender to be Bok captain in next 4 years.
WP – Schalk Burger (Will he be plating in 4 years time?)
FS – A Strauss (Not in Bok team)
Lions – J Strauss (Not in Bok team)
Sharks – Daniels (Not in Bok team)
Bulls – Spies
How this site will flip if our new coach does a Jake White and announce Spies captain for his his 4 year tenor as soon as he is appointed. Grant10 will just copy and paste all his comments over last 4 years and replace John Smit or Plod with Spies.
16 Nov 2011, 12:51 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-62: your logic is a relative concept.
16 Nov 2011, 12:51 pm
houng-hound
16 Nov 2011, 12:52 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-50:
Trans,what I am saying is that,it will definitely generate interest in black communities,better than the Orlando Stadium interest.
Interest will lead to some wanting to take up the sport.A couple of years back a certain Dr Koos Basson was asked by SARU to do a transformation study,he found out that the rugby number of playing personnel is dwindling rapidly and for SARU to make sure that the sport does not die a slow death they would have to start investing and developing rugby in the black community.I dont know whether the findings were taken seriously,this was during the Brian van Rooyen era.There has to be some sort of stimulation to attract more and more players of colour,especially outside of Eastern and Western Cape where there is already established rugby traditions.
16 Nov 2011, 12:53 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-69: how he even became a senior bok remains a mystery
16 Nov 2011, 12:53 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-69: K@K. That just shows your pervading mindset. That card sits comfortably in the subconscious, ready to be unleashed. Admit it, you and your ilk are just not ready to have a black player leading your side in the game you think you own. For that reason alone, Chilliboy should be captain.
16 Nov 2011, 12:54 pm
well.
it will be either the making or breaking of him.
16 Nov 2011, 12:54 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-69: Good point.
16 Nov 2011, 12:55 pm
@My nr1 nr2 too(trupisero)-74: A mytery only because you don’t understand the game of rugby. back to yuor korfbal and jukskei lesson.
16 Nov 2011, 12:55 pm
@pompies2(pompies2)-75:
Yawn.
16 Nov 2011, 12:55 pm
@My nr1 nr2 too(trupisero)-74: olivier as well for that matter
16 Nov 2011, 12:56 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-79: You don’t have to explain. The lager is safely secured. Question. What qualifies Spies as “the only logical choice”?
16 Nov 2011, 12:57 pm
@pompies2(pompies2)-78: those games are exclusively played in PTA are they not?
Jukskei – let’s throw a log at a stick.
Korfbal – uhm, wtf is korfbal?
16 Nov 2011, 12:57 pm
@Tito(Tito)-66: “affect”? HOW?
you’ve made the statement, now substantiate!
the Ndunganes are Boks, have been playing in domestic top flight for years, have kept their noses clean. have you seen anyone branding them or using their story?
i can tell you right now, i don’t believe it would make any difference to kids in Bushbuckridge id Mathlatsi was made captain of the bulls.
16 Nov 2011, 12:57 pm
@KWAGGA ROBERTSE(KWAGGA ROBERTSE)-44: Always thought Slangkos had some good leadership potential and ability. He seems to have fallen by the wayside not only with the Boks but with Bulls too. Maybe its just my perception though. A pity as I have always rated the guy
16 Nov 2011, 12:58 pm
Pompies 2 Chiliboy would be captain of the Bulls in the future if he is healthy so let him play more games. Unfortunately in the recent past he has been unlucky with injuries
16 Nov 2011, 12:58 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-79:
ignore the pomper.
he is being a devil’s avocado.
he says more about his subconscious than anybody elses.
16 Nov 2011, 13:00 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-69:
What if Pierre fails???Are you implying that there are double standards amongst Bulls fans???Are you saying if Pierre fails Pretorians will just say ag nee,dus net ou Pierre,hy sal reg kom?That is sad.
16 Nov 2011, 13:01 pm
@pompies2(pompies2)-81:
Most experienced Bok.
First choice in his position at both national and provincial level.
Experience of winning 3 Super Rugby finals, as first choice in his position.
Most experienced Super Rugby player in the team with 72 Super Rugby Caps.
One of only 4 remaining players, along with Olivier, Morne Steyn and Ndungane, from the Bulls’ first Super Rugby trophy in 2007.
Basically. An experienced campagner with more international and Super Rugby experience than anyone else in the team.
16 Nov 2011, 13:02 pm
One of the two men arrested with former Bok Solomzi “Solly” Tyibilika is alive but running for his life.
On Tuesday, it was reported that Simon Dan Shumane, 25, had also been killed.
But the Daily Voice can reveal that he is still alive – but fears he’s next on the hit list that claimed the lives of his two friends.
Tyibilika, 32, was gunned down in a tavern in New Crossroads by two men on Sunday.
And on October 21, Sandile Maqhungu, 27, was shot dead while walking with his girlfriend in Tom Street, Gugulethu.
The three men were arrested last month after police found an unlicensed 9mm gun in the glove compartment of the car they were driving in.
They were arrested and released on bail of R800, and were due to appear in court again in January next year.
On Tuesday, in an exclusive interview with Daily Voice, Simon Shumane said he believes the illegal firearm is at the heart of the matter.
“(On the night of our arrest) we gave Sandile a lift home,” Shumane said.
The police stopped them and found the gun in the car.
“We were genuinely surprised that there was a gun in the car,” he said
“We suspect that Sandile brought it and tried to hide it when he saw the police.”
“Then we were arrested and granted bail on the Wednesday and then the Friday I heard Sandile was killed.”
He fears that he is next on the hit list.
“It’s difficult to think that I’m not next when they killed two of the men I was arrested with,” he explained.
“I think the gun is what got my friends killed.”
A witness at Sunday’s slaying, who was also shot and injured, says they were watching soccer on TV when the gunmen opened fire.
“I went on the ground as they continued to shoot and a bullet hit me in my leg,” the man said.
“Then it was quiet for few minutes and the suspects came back to Solly and shot at him several times and then they left.”
Maqhungu’s family also believe the two murders are linked.
“We’re so scared that we don’t know who to trust anymore,” a family spokesman says.
Meanwhile, the Hamilton Rugby Club in Cape Town says Solly was trying to clean up his life and make a comeback to the game.
“I don’t know what he did outside, but here at the club he was our man,” said his colleague Fatima Bashier.
Tyibilika’s grieving family went to the shebeen where he was gunned down on Tuesday.
Sports Minister, Fikile Mbalula also travelled to speak to the family at the New Crossroads tavern.
And he vowed Tyibilika’s killers will be found.
“They can run but they can’t hide, they will be arrested,” he says
“The community must help the police put these criminals in jail.
“They killed him like he was nothing, like he wasn’t a role model.” – Daily Voice
16 Nov 2011, 13:02 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-68: the guy that employed him @ Bowman Gilfillan
he wasn’t always a magnate.
16 Nov 2011, 13:02 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-69: Surely the same holds true for Spies. Put aside the race issue for a moment and just have a look at public opinion on Spies. If you think Ralepele would have been under pressure to perform as captain, you ain’t seen nothing yet. Spies will be hung, drawn and quartered if they end in the bottom half of the competition.
16 Nov 2011, 13:03 pm
@Izwe Lethu(Koos van der merwe)-87:
If Pierre fails he has all his career achievements to date to back him up.
If Chilli fails, he as a career of warming the bench and recovering from injuries on his CV.
Spot the difference?
16 Nov 2011, 13:03 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-88:
Wasnt Pottie being groomed to take over from Matfield at one stage?
@Izwe Lethu(Koos van der merwe)-87:
Thats not even remotely what he’s saying. Read post 88.
16 Nov 2011, 13:04 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-90:
a pussymagnate?
16 Nov 2011, 13:04 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-86: Surprised you didn’t have a witty riposte? Not being a devils advocate at all. Just don’t understand the only logical choice ” comment at all. I have no problem with Spies being chosen. Just can’t undestand why bloggers have to justify Spies’ selection by denigrating Chilliboy. Not 1 mention has been made of Spies’ leadership qualities. He’s a tv star, who many pimple-faced kids try to emulate in his gyming prowess, so he must make a good captain. Chilliboy won’t handle the pressure of leadership and people will think he’s a token, so don’t give him the captaincy. All this, despite his proven track-record of leadrship.
16 Nov 2011, 13:05 pm
@John Galt(John Galt)-93:
Pottie is a great leader, but isn’t good enough to guarantee a starting spot in the team anymore.
We don’t want a John Smit situation on our hands, thankyouverymuch.
16 Nov 2011, 13:06 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-88:
Unfortunately it was that same logic that possibly cost us the RWC. Anyway, it’s your team.
16 Nov 2011, 13:06 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-94: You talking about your Sierra again?
16 Nov 2011, 13:07 pm
@pompies2(pompies2)-95:
Who has denigrated Chilli?
16 Nov 2011, 13:08 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-96:
Nice deflection.
Trust me, i wouldnt have minded Smitty starting the CC final and semi the way Bissie played.
Dont underestimate the influence of a great Cappy in a side.
16 Nov 2011, 13:10 pm
@John Galt(John Galt)-93:
I’m not sure pottie is guraranteed a place in the starting XV.
@>^..^< katman(katman)-91:
why place the chilster under added pressure in his first season as the bulls clear no 1 hooker.
let him establish himself there first with a decent injury free season.
imo spies could do with some added pressure.
16 Nov 2011, 13:10 pm
Congratulations Pierre…
I hope Tacitus is correct and this brings out the best in you… and you finally fulfill your undoubted potential…
16 Nov 2011, 13:10 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-88:
Most experienced Bok.
First choice in his position at both national and provincial level. – Justified?
Experience of winning 3 Super Rugby finals, as first choice in his position. – Still no captaincy experience
Most experienced Super Rugby player in the team with 72 Super Rugby Caps. – Still does not display captaincy experience
One of only 4 remaining players, along with Olivier, Morne Steyn and Ndungane, from the Bulls’ first Super Rugby trophy in 2007.- ????
Basically. An experienced campagner with more international and Super Rugby experience than anyone else in the team. –Again, not convinced.
16 Nov 2011, 13:11 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-98:
no man.
you sierra on you sierra them all.
16 Nov 2011, 13:11 pm
Transformation allow me to share a little about me so as to allow you some window into my thinking. By birth I am from the Eastern Cape, I have resided in KwaZulu Natal, Gauteng and North West. I have seen how the brand Blue Bulls appeals to black people in far deep rural villages of the North West and am of the view (you might disagree) that when you have Chiliboy captaining the Bulls Team he might bring rugby and Bulls much closer to a black kid.
In 1994 I was a teenage or youth and I saw how Chester Williams resonated with us black youth. In my view we need more.
Because of our history race in this country plays a big role on the way many people look and interact with their situations and environment. I am fully aware of the elitist nature of rugby (I raise that not negatively but to drive a point).
My contention to you is that many black kids in deep rural parts of this want to play rugby but cannot because of facilities and access. But a black captain of a successful Bulls Team might just give those kids hope and keep those dreams
16 Nov 2011, 13:12 pm
@pompies2(pompies2)-103:
Your opinion is noted.
16 Nov 2011, 13:13 pm
You dont need a plethora of achievements to lead a team,Look at young Sam Warburton who led the Welsh with aplomb during biggest Rugby tournament in the world at 22 years of age,he captained a team that included old horses like Alun Wyn Jones,Ryan Jones,B&I Lions trio of Jamie Robers,Phillips and Shane Williams.Lets not hide behind achievements and all those other things.Chilli should have been the man.Even his age allows him to grow in that role,it should not be used aginst him.
16 Nov 2011, 13:13 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-101:
I wonder who will be starting at 7 for the Bulls this year if its not Pottie?
Danies not there anymore. Will it be that oke they signed from the Kings?
16 Nov 2011, 13:14 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-101: I can see how that can cut both ways. But to say that the one could use the pressure while the other could do without it just seems a little convenient and contrived.
16 Nov 2011, 13:14 pm
Spies is a risk as captain….. but the risk / reward ratio is an unknown at this stage.
I just wonder if he heas the grunt / balls to klap a player that arrives late for training or use some “kragdadige woorde” when its needed at a half time break.
What is more interesting for me now is that he suddenly raises the stakes for Bok captaincy.
Personally, I think they have missed an opportunity by not making Chilli the cappy. Would’ve earned them some serious brownie points with the masses so to speak… Just imagine another S15 semi in Soweto with Chilli as captain???
16 Nov 2011, 13:15 pm
Anyway.
It’s no suprise that the usual suspects are subbing into their amasi about this.
I still belive that chilli will one day be the bulls and bok captain.
in fact it wouldn’t suprise me to see him take us to the world cup in 2015.
16 Nov 2011, 13:16 pm
@Izwe Lethu(Koos van der merwe)-107:
I don’t know you, but I like you.
Good post.
For the same reason, I think our bok captain should be somoene similar. I still think Bekker and de Jongh could step up to the plate and do a Warburton for us.
16 Nov 2011, 13:16 pm
Martin Johnson has resigned.
16 Nov 2011, 13:17 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-104: I thought that was shopping centres.
You’ve seen one, you’ve seen a mall.
16 Nov 2011, 13:18 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-111:
Gunth, I think if our next coach is white, that scenario will become a very real possibility for 2015.
Last thing we need is for bok passports to be revoked just before 2015 England
16 Nov 2011, 13:18 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-114:
clever.
16 Nov 2011, 13:19 pm
@Helen(Helen)-112:
Bekker?
Fk no, he has a serious attitude problem.
Have you seen him k ak on his own players when they make mistakes. Cant have that in a captain when he has to deal with the press, refs etc etc.
He’ll lose his rag in 2 seconds.
16 Nov 2011, 13:19 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-109:
why?
its chilli’s first season starting at hooker.
spies is a seasoned campaigner
chilli has a patchy injury record.
The whole thing is a bit of a non issue for me.
16 Nov 2011, 13:22 pm
Too much emphasis is put on captains in SA.
We should pick our captains like we pick our hookers. Whatever is needed on the day should be applied.
If it then so happens that one player is used all the time, then he would’ve deserved it thoroughly.
But, this lifetime captaincy that we run after just paints coaches and selectors into a corner. What of this new guy Adonga starts pushing Pierre out of the starting 15?? Rather pick a leadership team of 4 or 5 players and appoint captain per game or per tour or er tournament at the very worst
16 Nov 2011, 13:22 pm
@John Galt(John Galt)-108:
yep that’s the one.
same surname.
he looks very usefull.
alice band just doesn’t have the grunt at the top level.
16 Nov 2011, 13:22 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-50: I think you;re being glib here. There’s no doubt that there pressure will be on in the near future to appoint a black Springbok captain.
Chilli was always in SARU’s plans as the guy to take over from John, i was given this info first hand. Yes things change, and as things change, the plans change with them, but I am very surprised to see Pierre appointed and not Chilli.
He ticks all the boxes, including the transformation one (if you’lll excuse my use of your nick
)
however this is the Bulls, and apart from how they affect Springbok rugby, i couldn’t really care who they appoint.
I’m just surprised is all.
16 Nov 2011, 13:23 pm
i agree spies can do with some pressure…
build up the pressure so that when it’s reeled on the field he runs through or over people and drags them with him the tryline…
squeeze him and make him angry enough to start hurting people…
16 Nov 2011, 13:24 pm
when it’s released…
16 Nov 2011, 13:24 pm
@John Galt(John Galt)-117:
Understand.
But, there is a fliside to that attitude. It can be harnessed for the benefit of the team. Also, captaincy somtimes brings out different characteristics in players. I think Bekker will respond well with that responsibility. I am more concerned with his private life and how that has turned the public against him. Lost a bit of moral authority with that vry in the park.
De Jongh, on the hand is another contender for our Warburton
16 Nov 2011, 13:27 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-118: Dry your broeks, Goenta. Just trying to understand the logic here. But I see it’s a simple case of supply and demand. No other union supplied you with a better captain, so now you demand that Peirre pull up his socks. And good luck to the big fella.
16 Nov 2011, 13:27 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-114:
don’t knock it.
I met the love of my life in a shopping centre.
That’s a mall hey?
16 Nov 2011, 13:28 pm
Whatever happend with Dewalt Potgieter, remember when he burst on the scene a lot of peaple saying how outstanding he was and how he would be the next Bulls and Bok captain, i got a mouthful 4 saying i didnt think so, but said if he was the size and built like Spies yes as he was a good player, never held back, just not enough of him.
16 Nov 2011, 13:28 pm
Izwe Lethu makes a solid point.
Sam Warburton, sans his brainfart in the qrt final, could easily have been considered the best captain in rugby.
At 22, he showed us what is important as captain. Humble in front of cameras, aggro with players and deserving of his place in the team. In such a case, a number of SA players suddenly become contenders for the top job and not just the Schalla and Juan brigade…
16 Nov 2011, 13:30 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-125:
you have been shown the logic.
I think maybe we should draw you a picture.
16 Nov 2011, 13:30 pm
@Tacitus.
You may have a point about Chiliboy. Being appointed captain probably wouldn’t have done him any favors.
Spies is still a poor choice though. Can’t help but think Wynand Olivier would’ve been the better choice. A few others would’ve been better options also. Wynand has put up with a lot of unwarranted criticism. Not half as bad as some make him out to be.
Spies a terrible choice. It’ll be up to him to prove us wrong.
16 Nov 2011, 13:32 pm
@Treehugger(Treehugger)-127:
I remember, 2 seasons ago, even Victor said in an interview that Slangkos (his nic) would make a great captain and that he’s been identified in their succession planning.
I think he has been proven to be just a little light in the pants. No matter how hard he plays, he lacks the physical presence and so will be lifted out of his position by a player that works equally hard but packs an extra 10kgs of muscle, ie Adonga.
I think the same risk applies to Spies, but let’s see. I hope he surprises us, because I respect the guy and hope he becomes more than just a rumour
16 Nov 2011, 13:34 pm
Honest question – were the Bulls ready for a black captain?
16 Nov 2011, 13:34 pm
@Helen(Helen)-128:
Warburton was a contender for the best player in his position at the World Cup.
Chilli isn’t even best in his country, and in fact is still proving that he is best in his position at his province for a full season.
Invalid comparison.
16 Nov 2011, 13:34 pm
@Helen(Helen)-131: Potgieter reminds me a bit of England’s Lewis Moody. Hard working, fearless and fit. But probably about 8 or 10kg shy of a world-class ball carrier.
16 Nov 2011, 13:35 pm
@hendrikp(hendrikp)-130:
I would assume the players, especially the senior players, had some input in this selection….. Maybe they know something we don’t know, so I’ll give Spies a chance. Just hope he lifts his aggression a bit. No more mr nice guy. He needs to have one or two foul play incidents to improve his street cred
16 Nov 2011, 13:36 pm
@willievz(willievz)-132:
And how do you propose we find an answer to that question?
16 Nov 2011, 13:37 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-133:
That is not who I was comparing.
I think someone like Bekker or de Jongh could do a Warburton for SA. Even Bissy!
The Warburton Doctrine opines that your captain need not be internationally recognised with 110 caps and a list of trophies….
16 Nov 2011, 13:38 pm
@Helen(Helen)-137:
Oh. You mean the Graeme Smith doctrine.
It was tried by Cricket SA, and resulted in a captain that everyone pretty much despises because of his arrogance since he was appointed captain at the age of 22.
16 Nov 2011, 13:39 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-134:
That comments reminds me of Ruan Pienaar.
Lazy, scared and out of shape, but 65kgs shy of being a great tighthead.
16 Nov 2011, 13:40 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-138:
Ja, maybe Greame is the closest we’ve come to the Warburton Doctrine in SA.
As much as I don’t like the guy, his captaincy has not been a total failure.
AND there was a never an issue with his age from fellow players as far as I know.
16 Nov 2011, 13:44 pm
I see Jonno has resigned as england coach.
enter the mullet.
16 Nov 2011, 13:45 pm
Spies hopes to lead from the front, is that a typo?
16 Nov 2011, 13:48 pm
Just hope Spies doesn’t lead by example – the Bulls will have a team of underachieving gym warriors.
16 Nov 2011, 13:48 pm
131@Helen… i remember that, you put it much better than me about him being 2 light.
16 Nov 2011, 13:52 pm
Should have been Juandre Kruger, or Flip Van Der Merwe. Bulls should always have a hard man leading them, not a wimpy clown!
16 Nov 2011, 13:54 pm
One of Jacques Potgieter, or the two wonderkids, CJ Stander and Arno Botha will be the Bulls number 7.
16 Nov 2011, 13:59 pm
@HongKongSlong(HongKongSlong)-145:
Should have been Chilliboy, a certain starter at the Bulls.
I would not start Spies at 8 for the Bulls.
16 Nov 2011, 14:00 pm
@ufo(ufo)-102:
why do you have to be so ffucking condescending?
.
.
.
16 Nov 2011, 14:01 pm
@willievz(willievz)-132:
The fact is that Chilli has been on the bench so much that he has probably lost some ground with his players and is not seen as a senior player.
16 Nov 2011, 14:03 pm
I can’t really recall Spies having a bad Super rugby campaign. But I recall a number of years where he was very, very good at S14 level.
16 Nov 2011, 14:03 pm
@David(David)-113: so it’s farewell Martin Johnson then. Listening to him yapping in that Sky Sports studio for all those years about what England “should be doing” and then watching him fail in such spectacular fashion was in many ways quite satisfying.
16 Nov 2011, 14:09 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-150:
The 8, 9, 10, 12, 13 axis of the Bulls will be quite a formidable one next year.
Perhaps not world beaters in international rugby, but certainly good enough to do serious damage in the S15.
16 Nov 2011, 14:12 pm
@Helen(Helen)-152: Olivier and Sadie will be a very good combination.
16 Nov 2011, 14:16 pm
@willievz(willievz)-153:
But Sadie would never see the ball and even if Sadie goes get it he’s not exactly the big on passing either.
Bulls wings to have a quiet S15 imo
16 Nov 2011, 14:18 pm
@Helen(Helen)-112:
I am chuffed.
In all honesty,this does not suprise me.The Bulls have never shown any faith in Chilli,when Gary Botha departed for England,they converted Kuun to hooker instead of giving Chilli the no 2 jumper,in fact Meyer and the Bulls’s transformation records are abysmal,
Here is a good article from former employee.
Five black wings and Bryan
2005-02-07 07:42
After the recent clamour over the Springbok squad that toured Great Britain and Ireland, the composition of the four Super 12 squads somewhat dampened my expectations for the season at hand.
The inclusion of 32 black players in the squads, I have to admit, does indeed show a significant improvement on last year. However, for this “improved number” to mean anything in terms of the transformational undertaking given by SA Rugby, it needs to be translated into actual game time for these players.
If not, the Super 12 franchises, as well as SA Rugby for that matter, could once again be accused of window-dressing.
Take for example the case of Jonghikaya Nokwe on last year’s Home Unions tour – while the good intention of SA Rugby was to give him exposure in the Springbok camp and gain much needed experience, he does not count among the lucky few that received a Super 12 contract!
What to do with all that exposure and experience now, I ask. Making the starting line-up of a South African Super 12 team is already a challenge for the few black players that do make the squads, but in some cases, having to compete with four or five fellow-black players for one or two positions, makes the composition of some of these squads laughable.
Across the four squads there are fourteen black players that either play wing or have played wing for their respective provinces in the recent past. The Blue Bulls, Currie Cup Champions for the past three years have been allowed to include five black wings in their thirty-man squad.
Debut on the wing
Just when and for how long they will play during the Super 12 is not clear to me, especially since Pierre Spies (not in the original squad), SA U/19 eightman/wing is looking to make his debut for the Bulls on the wing.
Another black wing also in the running is Trompie Nontshinga, drafted in from the Cheetahs – why draft another black wing when there is five in the original thirty-man squad already?
The inexperienced Heini Adams will hardly get any game time ahead of Fourie du Preez, while Tim Dlulane will have to wish for an injury or two for him to get a look in.
That only leaves Bryan Habana at outside-centre. On present form he should easily make the starting line-up, but hey, stranger things have happened.
Presuming Habana remains injury-free and is selected in his preferred position, Heyneke Meyer will be left with the enviable “luxury” of five black wings to choose from for the one vacant wing position!
Genuine transformation
So, while the thirty man squad of the Bulls might reflect an improvement in black representation, it hasn’t moved one inch forward in terms of genuine transformation.
It’s now much clearer to me why it has been “impossible” to find a Super 12 spot for Nokwe – there simply isn’t any more space left for black wings! This of course begs the question why was he included in Springbok touring squad in the first place.
If we agree that the Super 12 should be the breeding ground of future Springboks, particularly with the 2007 and 2011 Rugby World Cups in mind, then the composition of the present squads does not augur well for the genuine transformation of the Springbok squad in the near future!
No matter how many times we profess our commitment to transformation, the proof still lies in the pudding!
Gary Boshoff is a former Saru player and a well-known rugby administrator
16 Nov 2011, 14:20 pm
@pokkel(pokkel)-154: That’s fine, they will get away with at at Super 14 level.
Olivier gets over the advantage line at that level and Sadie can carry on more mature phases.
16 Nov 2011, 14:24 pm
Congratulations Pierre Spies on the Captaincy. I am actually going to enjoy this apointment. I think it has great entertainment value.
16 Nov 2011, 14:33 pm
150@Tac…
16 Nov 2011, 14:38 pm
@willievz(willievz)-156:
Although if the Bulls continue the kick and chase they probably have the right wings because we all know that Basson is good in the air and JJ is a very tall lad as well.
16 Nov 2011, 14:54 pm
This effectively means the end of Potgieter at the Bulls.
16 Nov 2011, 15:01 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-41: I didn’t see the fuss about Monty as a person back then; I liked him as a player. Wynard on the other hand is as useful as a chocolate hammer.
16 Nov 2011, 15:02 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-55: Not strange. A strong Bulls is good for SA rugby. A supposed professional union has made one helluva dumb decision.
16 Nov 2011, 15:03 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-160:
Why do you say that?
16 Nov 2011, 15:19 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-160: he’s signed till 2013 and after that overseas…
16 Nov 2011, 15:20 pm
Spies’ tweet: “Pierrespies8 Thanx for all the msg’s evryone-looking forward to lead new generation Bulls! “
16 Nov 2011, 15:30 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-163:
He isnt good enough to unseat Stegman as a opensider
He isnt good enough to keep blindside position with Stander,Botha,Other Potgieter challenging NOW
Spies is now captain therefore wont be replaced for anything.
So that puts him out of the starting XV, and still on bench he has to compete with any of Botha,Stander,Potgieter and jonno Ross.
his leadership qualities would have prolonged his stay in XV as he would have been captain or vice.Now….NOTHING
Days are numbered.
16 Nov 2011, 15:37 pm
Man-o-man! I see the Liberals here on keo are up to their usual bashing of anything Afrikaans and Blue.
Seriously okes?
Live in your small little world!
16 Nov 2011, 15:45 pm
Haha haha – the best news i have heard all day – this isnt a pratical joke ????
16 Nov 2011, 15:46 pm
Lead from the front!!!!!
Spies??????????????
LOL X 10000
16 Nov 2011, 15:55 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-166:
Why must he either start or leave?
Why can’t he be a valuable squad player like Danie Rossouw?
I see a long future for Dewald as a backup loose forward for the Bulls, and even starting games when rotation takes place during the long S15 season.
Why must it be a case of starting line up or else off to Europe?
16 Nov 2011, 15:59 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-170:
I see a long futute for dewald as the bulls blogger in chief.
16 Nov 2011, 16:01 pm
@grant10(grant10)-169:
16 Nov 2011, 16:02 pm
spies will first have to deal with israel dagg – his nemesis – before he can lead anything.
16 Nov 2011, 16:07 pm
@Horings(Horings)-70: yes…and in 2015 we will lose again…like I said with fat boy…
I may be a pain the ***….but i get it right most of the farken time…
16 Nov 2011, 16:09 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-170: Agreed. He will stay.
16 Nov 2011, 16:10 pm
@grant10(grant10)-169: Lead from the behind more like it.
16 Nov 2011, 16:10 pm
@grant10(grant10)-174: like francois steyn @ 10
16 Nov 2011, 16:11 pm
its an afrikaans cover version of bob skinstad all over again, i fear.
hell of a gamble by heyneke to risk the whole of next seasons performance of the team by betting on spies. unless he’s just fulfilling a caretaker captaincy role while a longer term leader is groomed and tested, that would make a lot of sense.
16 Nov 2011, 16:12 pm
@grant10(grant10)-174:
only JR thinks that.
the rest of us just ignore you.
16 Nov 2011, 16:12 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-170: Agreed good player but needs more game time
16 Nov 2011, 16:18 pm
@Kleuter(Kleuter)-167: “liberals”? grant supports the IRA mate
16 Nov 2011, 16:18 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-177: exactly!
Farkit….this is funny….Spies leading from the front….
no man….wtf !
Chilliboy must of been a dead certainty.
Oh my fark….meisiekind as vice?
LOL
This is farken hilarious!
16 Nov 2011, 16:19 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-177: Thats why I said most of the time !
16 Nov 2011, 16:20 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-179: What is the latest with Roebuck?
I have been in board room all farken day…
16 Nov 2011, 16:23 pm
@grant10(grant10)-184: you don’t understand the “dynamics”
16 Nov 2011, 16:27 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-185:
of course he does.
he works in Newlands.
He has a board room and everything.
Now wind your neck in.
16 Nov 2011, 16:28 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-186: why would you not get the “dynamics” of
Hip Hop
Basketball?
16 Nov 2011, 16:29 pm
aiaiaiaiai… to many hallelujas for my liking.
16 Nov 2011, 16:32 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-186: i know where grant works… cool your jets
16 Nov 2011, 16:32 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-187:
Because White men can’t jump.
Also Rap comes from the hood.
And we definitely aren’t allowed to know anything about that
16 Nov 2011, 16:34 pm
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-178: Hey hey hey no insulting the magician Bobby by comparing him to Speedo Tackler!
16 Nov 2011, 16:34 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-189:
good.
then you will knolw why he understands “the dynamics” of the Newlands Ghetto.
16 Nov 2011, 16:35 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-185: HUH??
what dynamics?
Spies is a turbo reverse coward at the best of tiimes with a heart the size of Gunthers brain…..
Bloody disgrace this is!
And meisiekind?
WTF is up at the Bulls?
H Meyer must keep farken far away from the Boks…..
This is so farken tragic it is actually funny!
16 Nov 2011, 16:35 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-185: Dynamics of what? How not to drive in the tackle? How to get bullied by players 15kgs lighter than you?
16 Nov 2011, 16:36 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-190: are you having fun being a stereotype?
16 Nov 2011, 16:36 pm
@grant10(grant10)-193: The more I think about it, the more Meyer moves away from my Bok coach wish list. Jeez, to be led by the UnHulk and Shampoo.
16 Nov 2011, 16:38 pm
LOL
LOL
LOL
This is farken hilarious….
nee wat…ek kan nie dit glo nie….my fok!!
16 Nov 2011, 16:39 pm
@grant10(grant10)-193:
shut you old queen.
the only tragedy here is a menapausal old knobber like you who talks like a 13 year old schoolgirl.
16 Nov 2011, 16:40 pm
@grant10(grant10)-197:
“Right mense, we must bash it over the gainline. Get frontfoot ball for the backs!”
“Ok back boys, we’ll find the gaps and……..”
Oh fok all right. I’d PAY to listen to the motivational speeches from Unhulk and Shampoo.
16 Nov 2011, 16:40 pm
@grant10(grant10)-193: @Gunther(gunther)-192: to be honest, there are no dynamics about the suburbs, each and everyone are the same
the wealthier the residents the quieter and more withdrawn the people are.
only the maevis’ and cab’s gardner bring “dynamcis” to suburbs
16 Nov 2011, 16:41 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-198: You forgot your caps.
16 Nov 2011, 16:42 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-195:
What stereotype is that?
The one were only people from the hood can understand the hood?
The condescending patronising one?
Ja OK.
16 Nov 2011, 16:49 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-202: stop palying victm like dawn just because you grew up in a place sans dynamics
16 Nov 2011, 16:52 pm
An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before, but had recently failed an entire class. That class had insisted that socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer.
The professor then said, “OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Obama’s plan”.. All grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade so no one will fail and no one will receive an A…. (substituting grades for dollars – something closer to home and more readily understood by all).
After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little.
The second test average was a D! No one was happy.
When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F.
As the tests proceeded, the scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else.
To their great surprise, ALL FAILED and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great, but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed.
Could not be any simpler than that.
Why is this relevant to South Africa?? This is why:
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.
Bazinga!
(if you don’t get it you never will…)
16 Nov 2011, 16:54 pm
@Michael(mikeybrass)-199: LOL
This is farken amazingly funny!
Made my day I tell you…
Thys Lourens will be turning in his grave!!
16 Nov 2011, 16:55 pm
@Michael(mikeybrass)-201:
fARK SORRY.
16 Nov 2011, 16:57 pm
Frik Du Preez must be lekker befok…..a powder puff 8 man captaining the Bulle
and a tomotei kid vice…
ag no man…..
where is Tacitus?
Taci….my liewd dorner….wat gaan aan daar in bloubul land?
16 Nov 2011, 16:59 pm
From Mastfield to Turbo spies
vokkitt…
This made my day
Havent laughed so much in a while
cheers all
outta here
16 Nov 2011, 16:59 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-204:
eish.
strange dynamic.
16 Nov 2011, 17:00 pm
bakkies must be distraught!
Farkit this is ilarious
16 Nov 2011, 17:01 pm
@grant10(grant10)-207: Ooohhhhhhh Frik in his old age vs UnHulk… My money is on Frik in the tackle!
16 Nov 2011, 17:02 pm
@grant10(grant10)-210: I’m laughing so hard my bronchitis has taken on a life of its own.
16 Nov 2011, 17:05 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-204: the inverse works very well when you’ve got an abundant supply of cheap labour to exploit, innit
16 Nov 2011, 17:08 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-213: Explain?
16 Nov 2011, 17:08 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-204: Hehe, good one
However, social democracy as a politico-economic system appears to be the right model for many countries, such as Scandinavian countries.
There is no one-size-fits-all wonder policy to fuel economic development. And in this regard, SA is as unique a conundrum as you can get.
IMHO, the two biggest impediments to economic development in Africa are (i) geography and (ii) ethnolinguistic fractionalization. In that order.
16 Nov 2011, 17:13 pm
Thats a good post even i understood it
16 Nov 2011, 17:14 pm
@willievz(willievz)-215: Sure, all the problems can hardly be solved or pinned on soething that simplistically, but as a socially minded capitalist, I can relate to much of what that post is saying.
16 Nov 2011, 17:14 pm
@willievz(willievz)-215: hhmm, you clearly don’t get the privileged saffa “dynamic”
16 Nov 2011, 17:21 pm
gym calls (NO PETER DAVIES).
later
16 Nov 2011, 17:23 pm
Someone had to pay for the Bulls’ failures to reach the Semis of both Super 15 and the CC competitions in 2011
And that despite all the help in the world from the likes of Honest Jonker, honourable Pro Legota and His Masters Voice Joubert!
Talking poor Bryce Lawrence’s swindles
Taking the 2010 season with Gary Botha at the helm as the yardstick, it’s clearly a case where the Bulls couldn’t afford similar revenue losses in 2012 despite the inevitable ensuing rethorics onslaught from the ‘underprivileged’
Truth hurts
16 Nov 2011, 17:23 pm
When wp resigned habana for 3 years and let jj engelbrecht and johan sadie go i thought that was the off-season joke. Bulls, you’ve trumped wp. Pierre Spies being names captain is the rugby joke of the year.
16 Nov 2011, 17:25 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-217: It’s all about incentives, and having institutions and mechanisms in place which can facilitate that.
But I also get what you say.
People and countries differ – eg. SA and Norway is different, just like WP and Bulls supporters are different
16 Nov 2011, 18:04 pm
@Hondo(Hondo)-220: ***** off you wannabe ectoplasm
16 Nov 2011, 18:06 pm
What I do not understand is rugby supporters talking about captaincy. I thought Fourie du Preez would be a brilliant captain. He had the rugby brain of a Naas Botha. But he was not.
We as supporters can debate player form and quality as their performance is visible to all of us. To pick a captain you need to know him personally and you need to have worked with him.
Now who of you had a conversation with Spies nevermind know him on the required level. I’ll tell you what. I will rather take Heyneke’s word for it, than one of the idiots on this site.
16 Nov 2011, 18:10 pm
@Horings(Horings)-224: Fourie was a strategist and executioner. He himself was a reluctant captain.
Spies is no Smittie on the field.
16 Nov 2011, 18:11 pm
@Horings(Horings)-224: He had a potentially good captain in Chil and he goes and picks Spies. A brainfart.
16 Nov 2011, 18:12 pm
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahha
made my day
16 Nov 2011, 18:14 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-204: The analogy about the class can be done differently. If the objective is for the class to succeed to demonstrate the value of team work then we will be averaging out individual performances. It is however essential that every part of the class is given different parts to deliver and excel at. Our society is made up of many units with each unit requiring to deliver a part of the whole. This requires systems and therefore social contracts. Your assumptions is that only one homogenous output will be delivered. If you read Eliyahu Goldratts theory of constraints you will understand the nature of systems and how effective systems require some parts remain on standby longer than others or to put it differently, they need to operate at different levels of efficiency.
A fish is not good a climbing a tree so don’t measure his worth on his ability to climb a tree.
Now with regard to the failure of capitalism… look at the poverty around you. Capitalism was suupposed to lift all out of poverty. The crisis on the financial markets is a failure of capitalism because it promotes efficiencies where non is required. The system of money creation and control has been found to be fundamentally flawed. Ask Alan Greenspan. He admits to getting it wrong. Buffet, Soros and even Gates are promoting socialist solutions (Altruism and higher taxes for the rich)
I however believe we are all wrong about economic solutions when we look to higher taxation to sort out the financial crisis. Taxation is monetary tool in a Fiat currency regime where money supply is unlimited. Taxes merely drain excess cash from the economy. It does however provide opportunities to remove hoarded cash from the economy through progressive taxation. Hoarded cash reduces the velocity of money and is growth negative.
There endeth the lesson
16 Nov 2011, 18:29 pm
@youknowwho(youknowwho)-228: The analogy works perfectly because the class is a homogenous group. It’s Economics. All write the same exam paper and are expected to attain the same degree of expertise.
I understand what you mean when you talk about each componant needing to deliver a different output.
Just like in the USSR when a doctor was considered as valuable to the nation as a steel worker. And we all know how that worked out.
Now I’m not condoning every aspect of capitalism, but what I am saying is that it’s miles better than socialism.
As for the money supply and Fiat currency argument, I am very familiar with that, but I am not referring as much to that as the government’s behaviour within the current structure where socialism attempts to promote the oen for all and all for one concept as workable or realistic.
Look at Greece, Look at Italy. Countries who have put themselves into huge amount of debt attempting to prop up govenment spending on people who do not produce (as a ountry) nearly enough to justify that amount of spending, but are promised it by socialist governments who wish to indulge the masses and get themselves re-elected.
16 Nov 2011, 18:40 pm
170-Tacitus
Potgieter has long been touted as a future leader & star and seems to be a big personality as well.Unlike Rossouw who was a team dynamic guy,never really touted for greater things.Plus the fact that he played in a team where those ahead of him were once in a generation type players,plus he is a better player in squad dynamic that Dewalt.
Plus Rossouw didn’t have to contend with a young loose fqd contigent consisting of Botha,Stander,Potgieter,Stegman,Ross.Add that Spies is playing his preferred(Potgieter) as captain.Rossouw was a international class 4/6. Dewalt Potgieter isn’t a real international class loosie in view of his competition in SA. Plus this Bulls team isn’t the all dominant Bulls of yesyeryear where playing for them almost garaunteed national selection-ala Rossouw. Potgieter’s hybrid loosie role the likes of Kolisi,Carr-better athletes in that role. Likes of Vermuelen,Alberts,Strauss better in the 7/8 role.
He is in Pedrie Wannenburg’s shoes right now a couple years ago.
Jacques Potgieter is a better more robust version of Dewalt Potgieter.
16 Nov 2011, 18:45 pm
A captain is an extension of his coach first, and a respected individual amongst his team mates second.
I will reserve judgement. on Pierre.
Hell if Schalk can surprise me then who knows!
On another note, my copy of Vic’s book arrived today – will get into that soon.
16 Nov 2011, 18:46 pm
@Michael(mikeybrass)-191:
i always saw him as more hypnotist than magician…but hey…potatoe, patato…
16 Nov 2011, 18:52 pm
@youknowwho(youknowwho)-228: @stormersboy(stormersboy)-229: Both you fools forget about capture and special interests… The farken cancer at the root of failure for Communism and Capitalism…
Capitalism as it exists now is as broken as Communism before the fall of the Berlin Wall – markets are not free… They are beholden to Speculation, Hot Money or Casino banking…
No amount of theory of constraints bulldust, flat currency fairytales and another 10 economists to change a lightbulb can solve this one…
Maybe Marx is right after all – maybe everyone has been coerced and dehumanised by commodity fetishism. Maybe not capitalistic vampires sucking the blood out of workers but the banking vampire squids sucking the life out of economies.
He is definitely right about severe crises punctuating cycles of growth, collapse, and more growth…
I hate commies. They farked in the head. But capitalism as we know it now is going to fark up the world, not just an “eastern bloc” as Communism did.
16 Nov 2011, 18:55 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-231:
wow! my mind is boggled…how on earth has schalk ‘surprised’ you?…wow…
on the other note, that is a book i’m actually eager to read.
16 Nov 2011, 18:59 pm
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-234:
His game actually improved – still makes too many emotional decisions as captain but that can improve with time.
16 Nov 2011, 19:04 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-229: Firstly, With regard to Greece and Italy, if you understand the money creation mechanism then you would understand that the debt either unnecessary or fake. The ECB is buying up Greek and Italian debt with money created out of this air and in that respect it proves that it could have funded these government directly. It will not tell the world what it intends to do with the Gilts that it bought but if it burnt the bond certificates it will merely be returning the money to source (Thin air)
The South African government has called the bluff of bankers by taking money directly from the central bank albeit as a loan and found no bogeys. The trick of money management is to use taxation as your primary controller rather than interest rates which has been found to be useless. Money can then be created to spend the economy into full employment. Inflation should only occur after full employment. Please dont refer to Zimbabwe. The created money without using taxation to drain the excess but were still able to pay their debts to the amazement of all. It seemingly also has a better growth rate than SA at the moment albiet from a smaller base.
The world still assumes a limited supply of money as is the case when we had the Gold Standard. The economic arguments changes completely when money supply is unlimited.
BTW.. USSR was centrally governed as is China. The both claimed to be communist. China is being asked to assist Europe.. Cuba exports doctors to the world and has one of the best health services.
16 Nov 2011, 19:08 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-235:
whether he bashes or thinks up chess board loose play moves, schalk the player is/was never really in question. however, it is schalk the captain, both at the stormers and quite possibly with the boks that is the subject of honest observations…and to be honest the observable ‘surprises’ have not been kind.
16 Nov 2011, 19:11 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-233: Welcome to this side of the argument
. I take it that you will not be voting Tory in the next election. I told you they were twats but the answer lies in the Money creation mechanism and the associated accounting. Quantitative Easing (QE) money is government revenue no matter how they try to spin it and we, in the UK, are sitting with a huge surplus if you write off the £275bln created for QE. The government owns the Bank of England and can therefore not be in debt to it like they are trying to spin it to sell austerity
16 Nov 2011, 19:11 pm
@youknowwho(youknowwho)-236: “The ECB is buying up Greek and Italian debt”. They are? Thats news to me…
“China is being asked to assist Europe…” – yes they have been approached… But why would this happen if the ECB could “create money out of this air” anyway? Sort or puts a spanner in the works of your little digression, ne?
16 Nov 2011, 19:11 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-235:
this is of course notwithstanding that ridiculous inverse turbo reverse thing he does when goes into traffic backwards, honestly, wtf is up with that.
16 Nov 2011, 19:11 pm
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-237:
Well he has been one of the more successful captains in SA Rugby in the last 2 years?
16 Nov 2011, 19:16 pm
@youknowwho(youknowwho)-238: The Tories are the best out of a very bad bunch chap. Labour don’t know what the fck is cutting – never have. They were captured and fcked by bankers, Qaddafi and anybody that flashed a bit of cash. They don’t know whether they are arthur or martha now. Totally discredited.
16 Nov 2011, 19:21 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-239: The ECB is supposedly buying up debt on the secondary market and therefore not directly because this will break the bond market and Fractional reserve banking.
The ECB wanted China to borrow money from it while putting up China’s USD reserves as collateral ( they have $3trillion). They then wanted China to fund the EFSF with the borrowed Euros which it (EFSF) would in turn lend to governments. This was to fool us into believeing that the money was not coming from the ECB and therefore avoid disturbance with the bond market. China told them to Fkoff. They are now forced to consider the final solution of funding government directly and destroying the bond market. This will have a huge impact on The City (London). The end of banking as we know it hence the panic
16 Nov 2011, 19:29 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-242: While I accept that Labour does not completely understand the money creation mechanism, the Tories are plain evil and will drive the country in to the ground out of malice in the believe that the rich will survice armegeddon.
The economy data of today says that this group of Tories are the worst in history and will probably never see power for the next two generations if an election is held tomorrow. They never won the last election even when Labour was at its weakest. They had to call in their sleepers at the Libdems to gain power. That call however caused the Libdems to face oblivion. They are as good as dead and labour only needs to sit back and watch them burn until the next election
16 Nov 2011, 19:32 pm
@youknowwho(youknowwho)-243: The simple long and short of it all is that Sovereign debt derivatives and CDS trading are a big factor in this “debt crisis”. The Vampire Squids have moved from the houses to countries now…
ECB buys – they keep selling short… Until something gives
And they bank on the fact that they are “too big too fail” if they land up on the wrong side of these bets…
This is Das Kapital which is in the process of fcking up the world as we know it… Get your survival rations… Buy your crossbow… I have my eye on hunting the deer and squirrels in Richmond park when the blackout comes.
Energy will be next…along with Gold…
16 Nov 2011, 19:40 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-233: This fool hasn’t forgotten about any of that.
Go back to my original post. I’m espousing the virtues of a meritocracy over government interfereing to the extent that it drags everyone down to the lowest common denominator.
I’m not getting into a discussion on the merits of the perfect economic system. I’m criticising the damage done by rampant socialism as a breeding ground for mediocrity and entitlement. Then I’m extrapolating this analogy to illustrate some (not all) of the realities of South Africa and the mindset of some (again not all) of the people who blog here.
I will leave the philosophising and theoreticising on the best economic system to be used to replace the currently collapsing and imploding systems around the world to others. I suspect that when this really does happen (WTSHTF) as survivalists call it, that we will not be dealing with some new economic system but rather the re-emergance of a version of a very old one.
it’s called the “If you can take it and keep it it’s yours” system.
We already see that playing out in societies and countries around the world where the existing structures have broken down and the paradigms by which we exist cease to be relevant.
i don’t care who is buying Greek and Italian paper (Sovereign debt to the uninformed). What matters more is that they have been / are issuing it in an attempt to support their spending programs. Now you have rioting in the streets because people are accustomed to getting what they don’t really earn and are unwilling to take the pain associated with the auterity measures required to pull themselves back from the brink.
What it means in practical terms to me is that i’m closer to getting my tuscan villa at a record low price.
That’s where the meritocracy comes in. I saved/invested/created wealth while they spent. That makes me better positioned than them given the current circumstances.
Until they nationalise all foreign owned property of course
Then I’m as “fARK SORRY CAPS” -ed as the rest of them.
None of this is of course new to you. You are just being argumentative as usual
, which is perfectly fine by me.
16 Nov 2011, 19:44 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-245: The currency of the future will be drinkable water. WTSHTF and industry breaks down so will the systems used to process our most valuable commodity.
Welcome to the thunderdome….
16 Nov 2011, 19:44 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-245: Marx was spot on the demise or the tilting point for Capitalism. I do however believe that he did attempt to offer solutions which may not have been complete.
16 Nov 2011, 19:54 pm
very interesting.
thats why i train during the week and am in the water honing my hunting skills before 5am sat and sundays.
there will be fish for you guys dont worry.
grant10 and his tubfriend can go eat veggies with skop.
16 Nov 2011, 19:55 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-246: Deficit spending is growth positive and need not be funded with debt as I have explained.
I have already explained why not to use the Zim example if you are going there.
16 Nov 2011, 19:58 pm
16 Nov 2011, 20:00 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-246: ““If you can take it and keep it it’s yours” system.” – I like that!
” rioting in the streets because people are accustomed to getting what they don’t really earn and are unwilling to take the pain associated with the auterity measures ” – Not quite correct and not quite so simple.
There is a difference between the indebtedness of the Greek and Italian man on the street and that of their respective governments… They are quite literally being screwed by the spending and incompetence of their governments. The personal debt of Italians especially is not high compared to other countries seen as “sound” by “markets”.
There is a big dis juncture between representatives (govt) and their people… even more so now with the instalment of unelected technocrats as leaders…
There is also a big dis juncture between the responsibility of the people – and the responsibility of their governments… Countries (people) have sleep walked straight into a new feudalism with banks, funds and technocrats as the new aristocrats…. They have been boggled by political bulldust and are now paying for the sins of their leadership.
This will not stop in Europe…. The tentacles of the squid are stretching everywhere in the biggest redistribution of wealth in the history of mankind.
16 Nov 2011, 20:01 pm
@youknowwho(youknowwho)-248: There… So we can agree sometimes
16 Nov 2011, 20:04 pm
@Treehugger(Treehugger)-251: lol. Its what janitors do when they mop floors… Think about stuff…
…and the end of the world as we know it
“The times… they are a chang – ing….”
16 Nov 2011, 20:06 pm
Redistribution of wealth?
Where??
16 Nov 2011, 20:06 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-253: I never ever thought that I would ever find a Tory Marxist.. one of life’s great mysteries.. Is it possiple??
Ladies and Gentlemen.. I give you HG
16 Nov 2011, 20:07 pm
Got to go
16 Nov 2011, 20:09 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-249:
100 percent excellent idea… I’ll come camp with you when the lights go down… Fark surviving on veggies and lentil soup… Only for the Camps Bay survivalists that….
16 Nov 2011, 20:12 pm
@Dawn(Dawn)-255: Its happening – from the straight from the 99% to the 1%…. While everyone sleepwalks watching sport, Xfactor and Entertainment Channel…
16 Nov 2011, 20:15 pm
lol i have gone vegetarian, and NO its not cos of skop.
16 Nov 2011, 20:15 pm
@youknowwho(youknowwho)-256: I am no Marxist… But when shithappens you look in all places for wisdom – even Marx. And sh.it is happening right now…
Fukuyama may also be right about the “End of History” too… But in a far more different way than he imagined.
16 Nov 2011, 20:18 pm
@Treehugger(Treehugger)-260: Ag no Tree…Funny you say that because the banshee has been threatening to do that too… I dunno.
Whats happening with the world!!
16 Nov 2011, 20:18 pm
@HG…are you messing around or being serious ?
16 Nov 2011, 20:21 pm
@Treehugger(Treehugger)-263: Half half tree… Part deadly serious, part taking a swazz…
16 Nov 2011, 20:24 pm
Fukuyama. Fifty buck vloekwoord. Am gonne use it.
16 Nov 2011, 20:26 pm
@Dawn(Dawn)-265: Ja, Fukuyama too… Beat you to it.
16 Nov 2011, 20:28 pm
mmmmmmmmmm, Spies captain………………mmmmmmm ???
I see tears for the Bulls, cause this doos can’t lead from the front IMHO
16 Nov 2011, 20:34 pm
That was about the collapse of the economy.
The veggie thing will most probably not happen, so dont worry !:mrgreen:
If it does, you dont live off boiled veggies and salad i promise. My hub hasnt eaten meat (to him i say decaying in flesh to freak him out) for 10 days now and he just says he feels great and if he craves a piece of meat he will have biltonge and very quicky sayr its mumnfied not decaying lolol, was very funny. But seriously its his choice and i am fine with it, my friends never put pressure on me, its a life style choice only the individual should make.
16 Nov 2011, 20:39 pm
Just like my choice this past wknd 2 feed my old boy (horse) who died 2 the lions.
16 Nov 2011, 20:43 pm
@Treehugger(Treehugger)-268: Oh dear, your poor hubby… Sounds like the bug.ger is long suffering
16 Nov 2011, 20:45 pm
Wow. “It was not such a big surprise though, as I had it in the back of my mind that I could be asked to lead the team when Victor retired,”
What a fckin nob!
16 Nov 2011, 20:49 pm
lol ofcos, just the way it should be.
16 Nov 2011, 20:53 pm
@Treehugger(Treehugger)-268: Not collapse of economies – just a different existence… These countries still function – they still work…. Its just that money as a means to an end has become an end to itself…like the fish swallowing its own tail and consuming itself….
With financial WMDs farking everything sideways…Its like a piranha feeding frenzy
16 Nov 2011, 21:05 pm
so then its MAD. Am not good at all this strange finance stuff, sisters hub is one the partners at a pw and cooper in US, some specialisd field and never understand what he is saying.
16 Nov 2011, 21:05 pm
so then its MAD. Am not good at all this strange finance stuff.
16 Nov 2011, 21:06 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-252: I know it’s not that simple, as the Greek and Italian leadership are possibly the most inefficient and corrupt of them all, and I know that part of the rioting is about their wastage as much as anything else. That’s just as added dynamic but on a basic level my point stands.
That doesn’t change the fact that they now owe what the government has spent.
And they are unwilling to make the sacrifices required to pay up.
I’m not surprised, the average ignoramus never saw it coming.
@Treehugger(Treehugger)-268: Thanks Hugsy, I’m a reluctant eater of anything green, but when there is not much else, I’ll be at the front of the queue
On an aside, I read about your old fella passing. I’m really sorry about that. As a person so close to the plight and well being of all creatures this must have been a hard one for you.
I must say, kudo’s to you for the recycling, circle of life and all that, really respect that viewpoint.
@ Rangerman: Thanks bro, I’ve got my own gear so I’ll be right there next to you!
16 Nov 2011, 21:14 pm
Anyway, off to sharpen my spears…..
See ya’ll later. Much later….
16 Nov 2011, 21:18 pm
Averag ignoramus indeed
Howveryfucking rude
16 Nov 2011, 21:19 pm
@whatever(whatever)-267:
hahahaha
16 Nov 2011, 21:19 pm
thnx was easier than expected him being so old.
looks like i will have 2 pick sea weed lol was good at spearfishing even if the hub did insist i stayed in front of him.
you should chat 2 4man, we have had lovely chats on diveing, scuba and that, he has tons of expererience and more hair raising stories than me.
16 Nov 2011, 21:39 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-276: “on a basic level my point stands”…. No. Here it is not the fault of the people. It has nothing to do with the people. It is the fckup and speculation of the 1% affecting the 99%. A case of broken “capitalism”.
Tell me how the people will pay if they all just say “Fck you”!
Like economies not willing to let banks fail – the EU can’t let countries fail – or can they?
Complexity and interconnectedness suggests that if Greece and/or Italy fail then the whole EU fails… EU fails then the World is a different place…
Capitalism as it stands today with:
- Banks greasing its wheels…
- and Democracy that is in name only with clones in all “opposition” and “governing” parties
- and captured, monopolised Media which are nothing more than propaganda for the 1%
…..Is in the very process of breaking down or emerging into something new: A new technocratic feudalism…
16 Nov 2011, 21:45 pm
I am still pis sing myself laughing….
Spies and Timotei as his deuty……
What a farken joke…..simply speechless……incredible….
16 Nov 2011, 21:45 pm
Odd choice this.
Spies has never been prominent in any of the Bok or Bulls games I have seen. I always picture him as one of the shy guys stuck away at the back of the team photos.
Chilliboy would have seemed the obvious choice to me.
16 Nov 2011, 21:46 pm
And Olivier as vice
16 Nov 2011, 21:47 pm
Agh please the Greeks have balanced about 6 budgets in the last 60 years.
This is a country that only has about 500 swimming pools.
When you live beyond your means in the name of some nebulous political creed a hard rain is going to fall.
16 Nov 2011, 21:47 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-249: Don’t bother passing down your skills though – they reckon the sea will be devoid of fish by 2050. Pleasant times we have to look forward to.
16 Nov 2011, 21:50 pm
We should cull humans.
16 Nov 2011, 21:55 pm
@grant10(grant10)-282:
They have won more trophies than the stormers squad combined.
Go play with your duck and let the manne talk fruitboy.
16 Nov 2011, 21:56 pm
@Treehugger(Treehugger)-275: Its one interlinking chain of indebtedness where nobody knows who owes who and economic “bubbles” happening with greater frequency…. Like so called climate change with more intense weather – hot getting hotter and cold getting colder, but everything supposedly getting warmer overall – there is an economic “climate change” happening…
Some would say its a rebalancing of world economic power… Others would say its the biggest con job in history… Other than the climate change con job of course…
16 Nov 2011, 21:59 pm
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-283:
I think they are making too much of captaincy issue – its not such a big deal as in cricket- there is no reason why pierre S cannot do it as well as anyone else -imo a rugger captain is as good as his team – the aussies fired their captain a week before the wc and still won bronze- no big deal.
@Treehugger(Treehugger)-280:
Yip, 4 Man is Navy trained- he knows his stuff.
@Yetirat(Yetirat)-286:
It will be because of the Spanish and Japanese trawlers and longliners – Ranger and his speargun cannot really do much harm to the resources.
16 Nov 2011, 22:04 pm
Oi ! climate change is no con job, its the start of our world rebelling, we are systematically (sp) killing our world and she sick.
16 Nov 2011, 22:07 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-290: Absolutely not suggesting that Ranger is contributing to the issue. It’s commercial fishing that’s to blame, techniques like bottom-trawling that just kill and decimate absolutely everything in it’s path including all coral and just about every other life form down there.
16 Nov 2011, 22:08 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-290: you’re quite right WP/Stormers won the saffa conference with schalk as captain…perfect example of a team that has a superfluous cappie
16 Nov 2011, 22:09 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-290: in a rugby context you are probably right, but still, there are good captains and there are bad captains…
16 Nov 2011, 22:13 pm
captain’s are pretty much overrated imo, unless they can influence the ref, but the refs are having none of it these days in any case, I do believe a captain should lead by example, but am not sure Pierre is quite the example of captaincy one wants. He got big muscles but you want to see committment and someone all the players respect for that committment.
Strategy is left for the coaches and preparation and that often goes out the window too. A good captain like a good coach is probably better than a bad captain or coach, but i’d much rather have the best players selected and playing with committment for each other.
16 Nov 2011, 22:16 pm
Compare McCaw and Spies and tell me which one screams captaincy material and which one doesn’t.
16 Nov 2011, 22:16 pm
@Yetirat(Yetirat)-292: @Robzim(Robzim)-290: ja, i take only what i eat. have cut out purchasing any kind of seafood at all and take just for the pot.
no bycatch,no litter, no hooks, line, bait etc.
but ja, it does concern me greatly what is happening to our oceans.
16 Nov 2011, 22:18 pm
@Treehugger(Treehugger)-291:
Feeding your old horse to the lions, excellent recycling!!
Sorry he died, but he made a pride of lions very contented and he probably gave you many happy hours too!!
16 Nov 2011, 22:20 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-297:
It is the rubbish in the oceans that I find really terrible.
Rolling banks of polythene bags and plastic bottles!!
What are humans thinking?
16 Nov 2011, 22:24 pm
@Yetirat(Yetirat)-292:
You are right, amazing that South Africa is not doing so badly in this regard- our bottom trawling (hake) fishery is quite well managed and is even recovering at the moment with good prospects for the future. Our inshore resources (abalone and rock lobster) are another story with poaching threatening to decimate stocks.
16 Nov 2011, 22:24 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-285: Agh please the Greeks have balanced about 6 budgets in the last 60 years.
The Greek government created an entitlement mentality, they gave government workers a 14th cheque for Pete’s sake
http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/05/20/not-just-their-big-fat-greek-funeral/
16 Nov 2011, 22:34 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-300: @rangerman(rangerman)-297:
If you’ve not yet seen it see if you can check out a documentary called “The End of the Line”. It’s atrocious to see what humans will do in the name of greed.
What we need to do in SA is protect our own waters better because as is always the case, some greedy sods fish out their own waters and then come and poach in better managed waters where locals have made sacrifices to ensure some level of sustainability.
16 Nov 2011, 22:36 pm
@carol(carol)-299: ja, it is sickening really.
@Robzim(Robzim)-300: i find the rock lobster stocks here are managing quite well.
different species and harder to target i reckon (no nets/traps and big surf).
someone told me the other day that you can sell west coast kreef even o a non commercial licence??
is this true?
obviously selling here is taboo.
16 Nov 2011, 22:37 pm
@victoriabok(victoriabok)-301:
Please man
We rock that vibe here.
Despite the fact that the lazy parasites do fuckall to earn the previous 13.
16 Nov 2011, 22:44 pm
@Yetirat(Yetirat)-302:
Yip, that documentary tells it all.Problem is that some european and eastern nations who have fished out their own waters are offering african countries “development help” in exchange for access to their fishing stocks and then send out the supertrawlers – its a sad story- at the end of the day “money talks” and the seas will become empty and nobody seems to be able to do anything about it.
16 Nov 2011, 22:45 pm
Now the Sharks need to announce a proper captain… Lambie.
With Alberts as vice.
Or vice versa.
16 Nov 2011, 22:47 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-305:
Indeed.
Remember old east germany fished out the juicy prawns in return for dredging the harbour at LM.
16 Nov 2011, 22:49 pm
Rat’s, out of my depth here, I don’t have any interesting ‘fish’ stories!!
16 Nov 2011, 22:54 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-305: people are trying Rob.
my mate leaves for aus on monday for his third tour with the sea shepherds.
apparently, mitsubishi (the guys making the vehicles) are also trawling the oceans for bluefin as fast as they can catch them but thy arent selling.
nope, they are freezing them to make a huge payday when the bluefin go extinct.
?????????????????????????????
makes me sick to hear stories like that. really, people should not be eating canned tuna.
i reckon canned tilapia will be on the shelves of the stores that serve the poorer demographic within 10 years.
16 Nov 2011, 22:55 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-303:
Yes you are right. In the western cape we have commercials, subsistence and recreationals.Commercials and subsistence can legally sell- recreationals are not supposed to .
The problem is a lack of compliance that leads to “everybody selling”.
If you go to a place like Paternoster for example you will find people (recreational and subsistence or “no license”) approaching you openly in the streets selling lobster at “bargain prices” – and obviously they find lots of buyers – its a sad story of government not doing their job at the cost of the resource.
16 Nov 2011, 22:55 pm
@Treehugger(Treehugger)-291: We are being irresponsible in how we use the earth’s natural resources, and we are inefficient and messy, however global warming is quite natural…the oceans were warmer 90 years ago, there is more ice in the polar caps then there was in recent history, etc.. humans have much less control over this then we would love to think.
The whole “Inconvenient truth” movie was total BS; it was based on fact, but then blown totally out of proportion. A British court ordered any teacher showing this in their classroom to included a document outlining all the misrepresentations of the movie. When asked why they did it that way, the makers said “they were trying to prove a point”….eish
16 Nov 2011, 22:57 pm
i nearly bought a farm and started that venture myself.
the fish are fighting back though. mercury is a part of declining fertility rates of humans worldwide.
we will either balance (some say its too late but thats not how nature works) or we will crash.
i am betting on a bit of both.
16 Nov 2011, 23:01 pm
All this nature, now on BBC 1 we have Sir David Attenborough narrating the Frozen Planet.
I will have to endure an hour of killer whales eating seals, polar bears eating seals and seals eating any fish that remain!!
Happy Days !
16 Nov 2011, 23:02 pm
Anyone know where I can get some good Bue In Tuna for some Sushi, I am hungry and we must eat those guppies
16 Nov 2011, 23:04 pm
@carol(carol)-313: Whales have Sushi, Penguins have Sushi and now we get blamed for the guppy murder
16 Nov 2011, 23:04 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-310: ja look i know some students sell their catches here but the parkies hand out the big stick if they catch people.
sadly i think enforcement cannot be by polce or govt alone, it must be societal.
@Sasori(Sasori)-311: sure, a lot of facts blown out of proportion or timelines omitted. global warming and cooling is cyclical and natural just as you suggest.
but the rate of extinctions is something far more tangible to focus on imo.
the rate of global warming is also seemingly occuring a a faster rate than would be expected from a natural cycle though admittedly there are so many vectors its still impossible to prove it is due to human factors.
16 Nov 2011, 23:04 pm
@JL1(JL1)-314:
Sushi is not manly food…you need a casserole!
16 Nov 2011, 23:05 pm
That Frozen PLanet is a bladdy good show, better go watch.
16 Nov 2011, 23:06 pm
@carol(carol)-313: awesome show, loved that episode.
@JL1(JL1)-314: best hurry, the price is set for an incremental increase and then it will simply be unavailable.
16 Nov 2011, 23:06 pm
@carol(carol)-313:
lol, but if the seals do not eat the big hakes then the big hakes eat the small hakes and it farks up the whole hake stock and the ecosystem.So maybe the seal lovers have a point. Its not only those big sad eyes
16 Nov 2011, 23:06 pm
anyways, i am off.
a good night all.
16 Nov 2011, 23:07 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-316: Ja, extinctions and loss of biodiversity is what’s going to screw us in the end. No one realises how much we need full, healthy ecosystems to survive.
16 Nov 2011, 23:07 pm
@cab(cab)-318:
Oh my goodness, now the Belugas, JL1 will be feeling very peckish.
He is the sort of bloke who will be fairly familiar with caviar!!
16 Nov 2011, 23:08 pm
exponential increase rather.
late, i am off.
tjorts.
16 Nov 2011, 23:08 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-321:
Night Rangerman (Scubaman)!
16 Nov 2011, 23:10 pm
@carol(carol)-317: I hate casseroles, love steak, sushi, veg
16 Nov 2011, 23:11 pm
@carol(carol)-323: I do fancy my Belugha with some Crystal Champagne
16 Nov 2011, 23:12 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-320:
Those eyes….
Fark, the baby guillemots are being eaten by the artic foxes!
I am a nervous wreck!
16 Nov 2011, 23:13 pm
@carol(carol)-323: And I do have to say, I thought that you are also in the Belugha class of taste, if I dare say so myself
16 Nov 2011, 23:13 pm
@carol(carol)-325:
He does snorkel, fark.
16 Nov 2011, 23:14 pm
So Martin Johnson failed, good bye you are the weakest link
16 Nov 2011, 23:15 pm
@JL1(JL1)-326:
Are you serious, that is 90% of my winter menu. I casserole everything, wonder what Seagull Casserole would taste like?
I may skip the caviar and stick with the fizz!
16 Nov 2011, 23:16 pm
the pseudo economists here are as bad as the pseudo conservationists who are in turn as confused as the pseudo conscientious objectionist or the pseudo altruist you all going belly up whether you think you know whats cutting or you don’t.
Almost as misinformed as the poor misinformed Bulls who picked a rode as a captain
16 Nov 2011, 23:16 pm
youknowho 250
Sorry for the long post but you might appreciate it.
Shifting debt from people who cannot support it to those who can – the population at large, both now and in future – seems to make a great deal of sense if the alternative is an economic collapse that leads to a loss of output and investment now and so of income in the long term.
Before leaping to that conclusion, however, let us approach the issue of de-leveraging – or debt reduction – analytically. Between 1994 and 2007 (ie circa a decade just before the credit crunch), total US non-financial private debt rose from 118 per cent of gross domestic product to 173 per cent, the highest level in US history. Over the same period, US financial sector debt rose from 54 per cent of GDP to 115 per cent. A great deal of this leveraging up of the economy (matched elsewhere, notably in the UK) was based on false premises: borrowers and lenders thought that the assets against which they had borrowed would be worth more than turned out to be the case.
How, then, can people reduce their indebtedness or restore their net worth, after an unforeseen fall in asset prices? There are three mechanisms: sale; bankruptcy; and frugality. Let us considereach of these, in turn. But remember that, at the global level, debt cancels out: net debt is zero. So, in paying down debt, one is also reducing credit by an equal amount.
People with assets that they no longer wish to hold and debts they no longer wish to bear, can sell the former to repay the latter. If this is to cancel debt, then the ultimate purchaser needs to be a creditor. Sale makes this a voluntary transaction.
This path to de-leveraging is going to be part of the story. But when the predominant asset is housing, as it is now, the willingness of creditors to purchase will be limited. By and large, people who wish to buy houses are young and have limited liquid assets. Most creditors already own houses. In theory, houses could be sold to cash-rich foreigners. But that, too, is going to be a limited avenue for economy-wide deleveraging in most countries. (InSpain, however, sale to cash-rich foreigners seems a more plausible solution, since much of the past construction was designed for their use.)
The second approach is mass bankruptcy. In this case, creditors are forced to write down their loans to the value of the asset. That is clearly an important part of any de-leveraging. But since highly leveraged financial intermediaries stand between the ultimate creditors (households) and the ultimate debtors (other households), mass bankruptcy is going to wipe out the capital of intermediaries. That is likely to trigger panic, as losses cascade acrossthe financial system.
Organising such a bankruptcy procedure, to allow for a mass adjustment of claims, is indeed one of the necessary conditions for managing a financial crisis efficiently. But it is going to bepolitically and technically complicated. In the end, however, a substantial part of the debt and the corresponding credit should be eliminated in this way. The big policy decision is how far the state wishes to socialise the losses of creditors. The answerwill certainly include some socialisation, since governments insure deposits in financial institutions.
The third approach is repayment. Under any imaginable resolution of the debt overhang, some people are going to seek to pay down their loans. Indeed, a great many are going to try to do so: thosewho dislike the idea of bankruptcy, including the stigma; and those whose assets are worth not much less than their loans. To these groups of higher savers should be added those who are simply poorer than they thought they would be and so decide to save more.
While the highly indebted and the newly “asset-poor” have good reason to spend less than before the crisis, creditor households have no reason to spend more. Indeed, the collapse in interestrates in a slump lowers their incomes and so is quite likely to make them want to cut back on their spending, too. The aggregate effect of these changes in behaviour is, of course, a rise in the desired household rate and so the desired financial surplus ofthe household sector.
It is a matter of simple logic, that, since the financial balances of the household, corporate, government and foreign sectors must sum to zero, a rise in the surplus of the household sectormust be offset by an offsetting move in other sectors.
When one has eliminated everything else, it turns out that the only sector both able and likely to offset a large move of the household sector towards financial surplus in a post-crisis slump is the government. Indeed, that is exactly what has happened.
My conclusion, then, is as follows: the only way that the private sector can de-leverage, when large economies are in a post-crisis recession,is for the government to leverage. The economy, as a whole, cannot de-leverage in any other way, other than via accelerated mass bankruptcy, which would certainly deepen the recession, if not create a depression. If the government tried to eliminate its deficitover night, it would have to drive the private sector back towards balance (or achieved a massive shift in the external balance very swiftly). In the context of excessive debt, that is only going to happen if private sector incomes are so squeezed that paying down their debt is no longer feasible. But in this situation, mass bankruptcy and a slump again becomes a likely outcome.
16 Nov 2011, 23:16 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-330: Every womens dream man, one that can breath through his ears or hold his breath for 38 minutes
16 Nov 2011, 23:16 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-330:
Is snorkel inferior to scuba?
Perhaps I should have bid goodnight to ‘Snorkelman’!
16 Nov 2011, 23:17 pm
@carol(carol)-328: Isn’t it odd how our allegiance is determined by the point of view of the doccie. If it’s narrated from the side of the foxes – i.e. we follow them as a family – it breaks your heart to think of them missing out and the little ones going hungry.
16 Nov 2011, 23:17 pm
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-333:
Skop, I could casserole some tasty vegetables for you!!
16 Nov 2011, 23:18 pm
Mallet has ruled himself out of the England role – says he is “returning to SA with his family”…. (Sky Sports News) Intriguing…!!!!
16 Nov 2011, 23:19 pm
@carol(carol)-332: We call casserole stew, or potjiekos, same thing,but no, not my favourite
16 Nov 2011, 23:19 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-339: I had a feeling he is not the right man for the England job. Good move on his part.
16 Nov 2011, 23:20 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-337:
You have hit the nail on the head, also you have to remember that the cute ‘little one’ always dies!
16 Nov 2011, 23:21 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-337: I say shoot all cats, Lions, Cheetahs, gaan mall
16 Nov 2011, 23:22 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-339:
Smokescreen!
16 Nov 2011, 23:22 pm
@JL1(JL1)-335:
Lol x 3
@carol(carol)-336:
its not inferior, just another discipline
Ranger shoots fish, its not allowed to shoot fish using scuba- so i am only protecting him in case the authorities are looking in
“Snorkelman’ would be fine
Dont try to be clever here
16 Nov 2011, 23:22 pm
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-333: Ah, good old skoppie. Quick to point out all the shortcomings of the pseudos. But not so quick to offer anything substantial himself.
You never do, hey. You just waffle some tra-la-la jiggery pokery new age nonsense and hope that we think you’re deep and spiritual. Well, we don’t.
16 Nov 2011, 23:23 pm
@JL1(JL1)-343: Nice try. The cats will be the last to survive this place.
16 Nov 2011, 23:23 pm
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-333: Skoppie, my place Saturday, we are doing Crown Roast and some chippolatas and some good veg, some Chateneuf du Pape to wash it down and some Sticky Toffee Pudding for dessert
16 Nov 2011, 23:24 pm
casserole, serole
whatever we eat we eat.
16 Nov 2011, 23:27 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-346: Flower power, safety Bru, stuck in the LSD era and all
@>^..^< katman(katman)-347: Can’t stand those impersonal creatures.You call a cat, he dismisses you, you mind your own business, the cat comes rubbing up against your leg, hold on…..where is my Doberman
16 Nov 2011, 23:30 pm
@JL1(JL1)-350: Ja, before you now it he’ll be quoting Joan Baez and crying into his organic maize beer. Again.
16 Nov 2011, 23:31 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-351: Hold on I am a young one. Let me google Joan Baez first
16 Nov 2011, 23:33 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-351: Jiskaaik, Aunty Joan has been singing for a long time
16 Nov 2011, 23:36 pm
@JL1(JL1)-353: She and Bob were doing their thing back when Skoppie was a little boy. I’m not sure, but I think that was before the telephone and Penicillin.
16 Nov 2011, 23:39 pm
@willievz(willievz)-334: Yes Willie, ceteris paribus and all that…Said like a real Keynesian… Hindsight being the best skill of all economists… Especially the fools who all claim that they predicted the “crash”, “bubble”, “crisis” all after the fact…
But there is a problem with debt “cancelling out” which is obviously the logical theoretical start point… i.e. Value of said debt at a point in time as perceived by ratings agencies and markets… This “value” of debt is opaque at best and the theoretical “see-saw” is never really level, thus opportunity for speculation and arbitrage (simply put) arises…
However we have reached the point where speculation and arbitrage moves the bloody “see-saw” until said “see-saw” breaks.
16 Nov 2011, 23:40 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-354: Before we ate meat, I am sure
But she can talk k ak on the beat of music, I have to say
16 Nov 2011, 23:42 pm
you one fat pseudo katmankamt
You need to see yourself for who you are you ignorant idiot
16 Nov 2011, 23:42 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-355: Hey, don’t dis,Willie
I am definitely for debt cancellation, come Mital take my debt, or don’t I qualify?
16 Nov 2011, 23:45 pm
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-357: Have met Katman that you call him a fatman?
So Martin Johnson is Casey Jones…….gone, told you so years ago, big rugby palooka, what you say now?
16 Nov 2011, 23:45 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-345: Fark, when the lights go out post apocalypse and the vampire squid have fcked up the world well and truly I will not only have speargun, shotgun, RPGs and M16s stashed, I will make sure I have good stockpile of dynamite… Apparently fishing with dynamite is easy peasy… Stuff the hit and miss of underwater spearguns…
My speargun will be used sparingly as a consequence….
16 Nov 2011, 23:47 pm
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-357: See, what does that even mean? And don’t explain your mumbo jumbo with a different phrase of mumbo jumbo. Speak clearly without ambiguity. You sound like Ginsberg after hitting the bong.
16 Nov 2011, 23:49 pm
@JL1(JL1)-358: Relax, man. I’m giving the Master a little rev… Coach Willie might come out and hit me with an Input/Output bomb now or maybe even a SAM missile…
(SAM being a social accounting matrix)
16 Nov 2011, 23:51 pm
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-357: And you are one fat pseudo vegetarian guaranfarkenteed….
I bet you sneak and snaffle a good bag of biltong every week on the quiet, hey?
16 Nov 2011, 23:53 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-363: Bwhaaaa, almost blew have eaten Haribos all over the screen
16 Nov 2011, 23:54 pm
stupid imbecile little punknosed kiddywinkie thinking he’s somebody wizened up.. the poor little fucknosed ignoramus don’t realize what a punkeyed little peanut brained runtcunt fckup of an idiot he actually is..
16 Nov 2011, 23:55 pm
@JL1(JL1)-364: One big fckadilly bomb coming soon… With a barney fatboy detonator thrown in for good measure
16 Nov 2011, 23:56 pm
same goes for this pseudo mumbo jabbawokkie janitor *** ignoramus self styled economist fundi Herr Gwatto
16 Nov 2011, 23:57 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-355: I was referring to debt on a global or aggregate level. Net global debt is zero.
Obviously, when you break down the globe into individual countries and / or regions, and consider the debt structure within or between countries and / or regions, you need to take into account the debt stock level(or how much debt is outstanding at a point in time) and the debt flow level (how the debt level changes over time).
16 Nov 2011, 23:59 pm
Martin Johnson was too straight up honest for those toffee nosed old **** pommie wacked out schmucks at the RFU
As for this latest Heyneke ******** on Spies biggest fckup punkass move anyone could possibly make.. Bulls still got some way to go to get their heads out their collective arses..
16 Nov 2011, 23:59 pm
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-367: I have too say imagining you chowing down on a bag of biltong on the sly does seem like a funny scene
16 Nov 2011, 23:59 pm
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-367: everything’s farken “pseudo” for you, ne?
And there I was thinking the only runtcunt in this joint was your “coollycreeper” buddy, ET…. Now Katman too?
17 Nov 2011, 00:00 am
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-365: This one says even less than the previous post. Your ramblings are empty, vacuous, meaningless twaddle. You love telling people what they don’t know without actually saying what that is. Because you havent a cooking clue. Stop with this inane soundbyte driven rubbish and post something that actually contains a grain of substance. For once. Pretty please.
17 Nov 2011, 00:01 am
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-369: Hey we made Schalla Cappie, nt much better than making Spies the leader
Martin Johnson was not too honest, bullsht, he was a useless coach, who selected old buddies of his
17 Nov 2011, 00:02 am
talking gobbledygook world war III Armageddon blues on a rugby blog.. that sure is likely to straighten things up at the IMF absolutely most definitely…
17 Nov 2011, 00:04 am
@JL1(JL1)-373: True, plus he never really had the players or established key combinations.
Trying a Wilkinson / Flood axis at 10/12 for the first time in a WC QF is a case in point
17 Nov 2011, 00:05 am
pretty please up your pseudo runtcunt backside… you wanna know whats cooking then ask the right questions to the right people .. stop thinking you so fckng clever when fact of the absolute matter is you are absolutely not
17 Nov 2011, 00:06 am
@willievz(willievz)-368: Stocks and flows hey Willie…
Sounds like a good systems dynamics point of view…
17 Nov 2011, 00:08 am
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-376: And you, my friend, are one naked little fat emperor. All your colourful razzle dazzle gobbledegook is just bluster. Say something real. I dare you.
17 Nov 2011, 00:10 am
@willievz(willievz)-334: Willie, Like I have said previously, you have to understand the money creation mechanism and the associated accounting. The greatest economist in the world including Christine Lagarde does understand it but here is a free book that makes sense of it all.
http://moslereconomics.com/wp-content/powerpoints/7DIF.pdf
We have to understand that money is created debt free but is fraudulantly leveraged at the central bank to prevent it from being capitalised.An increase in shareholder value feeds to through to government revenue and automatically nullify debt. This very cunning and fraudulant accounting fudge is intended to take the money management function and associated power away from the government and place it in the hands of banks who have their own political agendas
I think you have got teh value of financial sector debt wrong for the US. In the UK, financial sector debt is 450% of GDP where as household debt is about 150% and government debt is about 70%. This makes government debt relatively low. The debt of Barclays alone is about 100% of GDP. You also indicate that the sum of all debt should equal to zero. I have a problem with this theory unless yu assume that Financial sector debt includes the negative debt of the central bank. The balance sheet of the Bank of England currently refelcts that it is too in debt which cannot be true.
I have tried to to simplify the argument because complexity is the bankers way of b ullshitting. Warren Mosler’s book remains unchallenged and the panel that is reforming the Fed in the USA now include protaganist of Moslers view.
17 Nov 2011, 00:11 am
@youknowwho(youknowwho)-379: small but critical error:
..The greatest economist in the world including Christine Lagarde does NOT understand it but here is a free book that makes sense of it all.
17 Nov 2011, 00:13 am
@youknowwho(youknowwho)-379: Sheezus cuzzie… You talking big words for a brick counter now
17 Nov 2011, 00:13 am
Spies and Burger the 2 densest decisions for captaincy made by anyone professing to be rugby thinkers… thats exactly how dense SA rugby brains are…
Perhaps Johnson was out of his depth.. no more so than White who needed Jones to save him from getting whirled down his own black hole plughole..
17 Nov 2011, 00:15 am
pseudo runtcunts like you don’t want anything real.. the more pseudo the better for you cleverdick clever arsed little nincompoops that know so much about absolutely fckall…
17 Nov 2011, 00:17 am
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-383: Thought so.
17 Nov 2011, 00:18 am
@youknowwho(youknowwho)-379: Hellsteeth bru… I reckon you are being conned if you think this chap is the “greatest economist”…
Yeah, him Father Christmas and the tooth fairy…
17 Nov 2011, 00:19 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-381: Its all quantitative
17 Nov 2011, 00:20 am
@willievz(willievz)-375: He had 4 years to play the combos
No strategy
His locks could have been world class by now, 5 scrumhalves used, and those pathetic centr combos
17 Nov 2011, 00:21 am
yeah you thought wrong you little pseudo know-it-all.. you thought absolutely wrong .. same as little cleverdick pseudo punkeyed imbeciles like you always do…
17 Nov 2011, 00:22 am
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-382: Johnson was out of his depth but Jake won a RWC, a RWC yes say it again Jake the Snake won a RWC
17 Nov 2011, 00:22 am
Nope White won that thing, hands down, that team were ultra-prepared and the selections were spot on.
17 Nov 2011, 00:23 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-385: I have tested his arguments on the CiF. It remains unchallenged… but you have managed to dismissed it before reading it.. Not good for a clever oke
17 Nov 2011, 00:25 am
White got gifted a WC he fluked it on the round the rosemary bush carousel … didn’t play one team above rank 6 which was Argentina.. the rest were nobodies including played out defragmentalized England… White met nobody on the way to a gimme RWC and even then without EJ he would have failed..
17 Nov 2011, 00:29 am
England beat Australia and France, SA did very well to beat them and everyone else they played. EJ came along for a ride, that cup was pretty much their for the taking, this time round should have been the same, except for one selection.
Ideal coach would be a hybrid of White and PdV. The analysis, astuteness and professional conditioninging of White combined with the less conservative more-fluid and nicer character that PdV was.
17 Nov 2011, 00:29 am
Night all… Power to the people. Down with greed
17 Nov 2011, 00:30 am
the secret when dealing with Skop
is to keep him away from the dop
because after one spritzer
he skeems he’s Pulitzer
meanwhile he’s gefok in die kop
17 Nov 2011, 00:32 am
@cab(cab)-390: Yes, hands down, well prepared, good selections, and good vibe team
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-392: And your many Martin played all these teams and could do nothing …. No Skoppie, no matter what you say, White did OK, and it seems he got your wife as well
17 Nov 2011, 00:33 am
@youknowwho(youknowwho)-391: This Mosler obviously makes for some good reading, much like Nicholas Taleb and his Black Swans, and I will have a read in some spare time, thanks… But he is not the “greatest economist” living on this farked up planet of ours… Other than that I was pulling your leg…
Clever oke… me? Never. Ask skopshyte – I am nothing but a pseudo mumbojumbo armageddon word war 3 fckadilly
17 Nov 2011, 00:33 am
@youknowwho(youknowwho)-394:
hey shaun, i see old mossler reckons he is “a financier with a true committment to the public good”, fkn hell hey this is a rare specimen indeed, defintiely the first time i ever seen that.
@>^..^< katman(katman)-395:
LOL – that is very amusing.
17 Nov 2011, 00:35 am
@youknowwho(youknowwho)-379: We can argue on the data but I used this link: https://www.federalreserve.gov/datadownload/Download.aspx?rel=Z1&series=654245a7abac051cc4a9060c911e1fa4&filetype=csv&label=include&layout=seriescolumn&from=01/01/1945&to=12/31/2010
This report states, among other stats, that in 1946, the US financial sector owed $3 billion of debt, or 1.35% of GDP. By 2009 this had increased to $15.6 trillion, or 109.5% of GDP
I suspect the financial sector debt data figures I referred to exclude pension debts, and the figure you have for the UK financial sector might – either this, or you are confusing financial debt with total debt total debt – see http://www.gfmag.com/tools/global-database/economic-data/10403-total-debt-to-gdp.html#axzz1duVbavnn.
Here UK total debt is approximately at the level you described.
It is also worth noting that, in general, official debt numbers exclude the net present value of unfunded public sector pension commitments and obligations under PFI contracts.
17 Nov 2011, 00:36 am
@willievz(willievz)-399: sorry, should read “Here UK total debt is approximately at the level you described of 450″
17 Nov 2011, 00:41 am
Anyways I am out, good chatting guys
17 Nov 2011, 00:42 am
Johnson bombed so did PdV.. probably for similar reasons.. too much buddy buddy with the players..
Rassie is a domdoos strategist making Burger the go to ball carry man.. also a dumbfck strategy that failed…
The entire song and dance routine around the super bench was a super fckup of note.. where Smit, Spies and FdP should have been far from the glory boy starters and Boks would have cleaned up Aussie and NZ on their way to a 3rd title if Bismark, Alberts and Hougaard had started instead..
White got some things right but only partly and EJ cleaned up his dismal back line play and gave them some direction.. without EJ I reckon Tonga or Fiji would have put Boks out the 2007 WC.. lets face it there was nobody else beside 13th and 14th rank who were even remotely competitive.. except a disjointed England and a fluked up France who got lucky against AB’s..
This time around France got distinctly robbed.. and SA did themselves in by playing Burger as the go to man.. and Smit, Spies, FDP ahead of Bismark, Alberts and Hougaard.
17 Nov 2011, 00:44 am
there’s one big difference between White and PdV tho, the latter was far more passionate about SA rugby imo, you would not seeing him touting for the BIL job a few months or chasing the england job or demeaning the current coach by graciously ‘offering to do a rescue job’. Poor form.
On the other hand, JW’s ego meant he was in charge, not SARU, Frik Du Preez, the president or the players, he’s fallout with Matfield was imo continuous and he was right to an extent too, since Matfield although brilliant had a tendency to coast in the tight in a great many tests and did not like to be called up on it.
17 Nov 2011, 00:47 am
dunno what you find even vaguely funny about one more pseudo arsed attempt at being clever which it distinctly is quite categorically not.. can spot a pseudo intellect a mile off.. a whole lotta pseudo arsed empty cleverness which equates to absolutely fokol
17 Nov 2011, 00:51 am
yeah PdV was a true heart on the sleeve no bullshit rugby man.. White just a puffed up piece of pontifical self centered trash that got lucky because his ego needed it that bad…
PdV’s weakness was he let his better judgment get derailed by those he entrusted with too much power and decision making prowess over his own.. that did him in the end.. But White without Jones would have been a blathering bewildered fckd up mess.. and I reckon he knows it..
17 Nov 2011, 00:52 am
@cab(cab)-403: ” you would not seeing him touting for the BIL job a few months or chasing the england job or demeaning the current coach by graciously ‘offering to do a rescue job’”…. Naah you wouldn’t see him doing that…
You would just see him stating his time is over and then contradicting himself followed by a reapplication for his position after been taught how to do it by Rassie and Nienaber… too late she cried…
17 Nov 2011, 00:53 am
I’m out… The farken hippy hypocrites are howling at the moon now…
17 Nov 2011, 00:53 am
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-402: So you admit that MJ was a pretty poor coach?
17 Nov 2011, 00:54 am
PdV was actually a very nice oke, but that non-selection of Bismarck was fkn horrific, sorry he must go, he also had injuries that white did not really have, but the non-selection of Bismarck means he’s gotta go, end of.
17 Nov 2011, 00:55 am
Matfield was probably the one closest to PdV’s ear and Matfield endorsed Smit to start and to lead the team based on some superstitious type jargon that he had led them to a fluke 4 years earlier… along with Rassie and Gold endorsing the ruse of the super bench bullshit routine… and that there is where it all fell down.. Smit starting over Bismark is what sunk the Bok along with the Bismark at the final hour..
17 Nov 2011, 00:59 am
imo matfield’s always wanted to captain the team, he also had a massive ego, but he could still back it up and was the best lineout lock in world rugby hands down, and in fairness probably should’ve been the onfield captain. Smit should have been the squad captain, doing all the pretty talk and so on and being heralded as mr selfless for stepping aside for the better player – and it would have all turned out so much better – now its all ended with a bitter aftertaste.
17 Nov 2011, 01:01 am
I expected more of Johnson I thought he could take charge of the team and make the correct decisions .. I don’t think Mallet is that strategically sound either he made some telling stuff ups of his own when push came to shove.. and so has Mitchell in his time.. so for my money right now the most astute rugby coach on the planet is Ewan McKenzie.. head and shoulders above all the rest… most professional wide awake and wised up coach going with less of the ego hang ups I’d imagine than many of the others…
17 Nov 2011, 01:25 am
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-405:
“But White without Jones would have been a blathering bewildered fckd up mess.. and I reckon he knows it.”
Tri Nations 2004 Winning Coach
1 x IRB International Coach of the Year Award 2004
What, pray tell, did Eddie Jones have to do with the above accolades?
17 Nov 2011, 01:26 am
@cab(cab)-411: Matfield was never ever a captain’s arse.
17 Nov 2011, 01:42 am
@cab(cab)-411: I think everyone was surprised at just how much game-time Smitty actually ended up getting in the last RWC. I for one was under the impression he would take on more of a senior mentor type role making calls from the sideline. Perhaps clocking up some time in the smaller pool games with Bismark taking on the big ones. It was just one bad call to start him against Oz really.
17 Nov 2011, 01:44 am
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-412: Problem for us is Ewan doesn’t want any job outside of Australia. Mallet, Mitchell, Rassie, Heyneke don’t want it….so who’s left? Alistair.
17 Nov 2011, 06:42 am
‘I am a God given talent’
17 Nov 2011, 08:34 am
To think my friends think i exagerate when i say there are some very interesting clever people on a rugby site.
17 Nov 2011, 09:02 am
for someone who is not a captains arse Victor seemed to do rather a good job i thought? I am however not convinced with the appointment of spies, as the pressure has been on him for a while now, and he has failed to deliver.
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