Sarries can SA initiative
17 Nov 2011
Saracens will not host their European Cup match against Biarritz in Cape Town because of the conflict between the city council and WP Rugby.
Saracens announced the cancellation of their plans of taking the first European Cup fixture to the southern hemisphere on Thursday. This comes after negotiations between the Watford-based club, City of Cape Town and WP Rugby fell through this week.
The orginal plan was to play the match at Cape Town Stadium in Greenpoint, but as the host union, WP forced their hand and demanded that the match be played at Newlands. Saracens attempted to reason with the two parties but a failure to reach an agreement has seen the English Premiership champions cancel the initiative as they’ll now play the match in London.
‘The innovative Saracens were eager to host the first European Cup match ever played outside Europe, to stage a special, spectacular rugby event and to project brilliant images of Cape Town and European rugby around the world,’ said the club’s statement.
‘However, we have no wish to be a catalyst for conflict between the City of Cape Town and the Western Province Rugby Union. Saracens looks forward to playing a competitive match in Cape Town as soon as local circumstances allow.
‘Supporters who have bought tickets in South Africa will be fully refunded by Computicket, and Saracens will engage with UK-based supporters who have already booked air tickets and accommodation, and ensure they are appropriately compensated.’
301 Comments
17 Nov 2011, 18:48 pm
Just Brilliant ****** from this wp dragons
17 Nov 2011, 18:50 pm
They shouldn’t cancel. Bring it to the Johannesburg. We will appreciate it
17 Nov 2011, 19:01 pm
One more reason to despise the Stormers more than the Gautengaleng Lions.
17 Nov 2011, 19:05 pm
Well it is nice to have another reason to make fun of WP, but truth is, I’m glad that this experimental European foray into South African territory has failed.
We don’t need the European competitions gaining any further marketshare at our expense. The fewer viewers they get, the less they can offer our players to move to Europe.
If SA spectators starts switching to Euro cup rugby more regularly, that will just strengthen their revenue streams, and weaken our bargaining position when it comes to retaining our own players.
You wanted to come, you thought you saw an opportunity, but at least in this instance, you didn’t conquer.
Now don’t try anything like this again soon, please.
17 Nov 2011, 19:20 pm
Hmmm… so it has nothing to do with the Sarries fans who demanded the game to be hosted in UK?
17 Nov 2011, 19:23 pm
Edward Griffiths is a plonker. He should know better than anybody that the home of rugby in Cape Town is Newlands. He had an office there for godsakes when he worked for SARU.
17 Nov 2011, 19:38 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-4: ‘The fewer viewers they get, the less they can offer our players to move to Europe.’
The clubs who can afford the best SA players are not reliant on viewers, they’re bankrolled by multi-millionaires and billionaires. It really makes no difference.
17 Nov 2011, 19:46 pm
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-7:
You reckon.
Why do you think they were so keen to come and play the match in Cape Town?
If you ask me it is to expand their brand and grow their commercial and supporter base and not to benefit SA or Cape Town in any way directly.
17 Nov 2011, 19:56 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-8: The point I was making is that it isn’t crowds and viewers which finances the likes of Frans Steyn and Bakkies Botha moving to the NH, it’s the deep pockets of billionaires such as Jacky Lorenzetti and Mourad Boudjellal (Racing & Toulon) who have made their money in other industries.
17 Nov 2011, 20:00 pm
Mafia!
17 Nov 2011, 20:06 pm
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-9:
It is fair, but hose billionaires still want to see returns on their investments and that is one of the main reasons why the club is trying to tap into the SA market.
17 Nov 2011, 20:07 pm
Well this was pretty predictable…
Johan Rupert don’t like being told what to do by nobody…!!!
17 Nov 2011, 20:09 pm
the narrow mindedness of the WP administrators is reflected by some of the bloggers here. Tac…I guess you hanker to those days when SA was excluded from international sport? I am a stormer……is he really? Griffiths seems to be doing a better job than any administrators in SA ( I exclude De Klerk and the Bulls). Actually Griffiths is not an ‘administrator’…he is a business man who understands the value of building a successful franchise. You guys continue to sit with your heads up your dark stars and live in hope. The rugby world has moved on.
17 Nov 2011, 20:12 pm
jeez what is it with Sa Rugby? Always a mission, always an issue, always a stuff up, always a joke……….oh for a professional set up run by a team singing from one songbook with the same objectives in mind.
yeah right!
doos’s!
17 Nov 2011, 20:16 pm
Sarries/Rupert are/is just playing hard ball…
They’ll make WP see the error of their ways…
The match will go ahead…
At Cape Town Stadium…
mark these words
17 Nov 2011, 20:16 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-11: There’s no real money in rugby rob, particularly not for men of that wealth. Hardly any of the AP clubs are turning over a profit, I suspect the same is true in France, clubs are merely playthings to these guys, a hobby.
17 Nov 2011, 20:37 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-4:
A bit far fetching, I can dispel your concerns
I tried to watch 4 Heineken games last weekend, I survived the Toulouse game mostly because of Gary Botha and only up to the 60′s minute, the Saracene game was a dreg, the 3 Irish games were so so and I gave up after 30 minutes
The real threat for SA Rugby ratings are the pathetic tokens inserted into the teams and help to diluted the intensity and interest.
17 Nov 2011, 20:44 pm
I am so proud of WP rugby at the moment.
I don’t even have words to express it.
17 Nov 2011, 20:50 pm
Tokens?
17 Nov 2011, 21:00 pm
This all seems very unproffesional.
17 Nov 2011, 21:05 pm
18
PissAnt:
Chin up bud…
All things in time. This too will pass….
17 Nov 2011, 21:09 pm
Gunther’s word embabroer or something.
17 Nov 2011, 21:20 pm
This reflects extremely poorly on the typical infighting, backstabbing, narrow minded SA rugby administrator. Pretty pathetic if you ask me.
But why do I get the feeling Saracens are almost relived to have pulled out?…they didn’t wait very long before they pulled the plug…
17 Nov 2011, 21:23 pm
@Dawn(Dawn)-19: yes, like you get at a fair/carnival to ride a rollercoaster
17 Nov 2011, 21:25 pm
SA 241/4…. then 266 all out… WTF?!
Chokers.
17 Nov 2011, 21:27 pm
toby titus is prolly walking around Newlands thinking “ek is die hoof man, ballas van staal”
17 Nov 2011, 21:29 pm
or heavy betting/fixing?….
17 Nov 2011, 21:31 pm
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-25: those okes are NOT a team, i’ve never seen a team that caputulates as readily & as regularly as the proteas…i don’t even feel bad anymore because it’s waste of my emotions.
i watch the proteas like i watch bafana bafana, with room the size of soccer city for failure & disappointment!
17 Nov 2011, 21:34 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-28: haha you have summed up EXACTLY how I feel when I watch those 2 teams.
17 Nov 2011, 21:43 pm
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-29:
A bit of overnight rain – like we’re getting right now – and some overcast conditions and Dale Steyn will be ready to go.
But agree – the batting today was inexcusable. Didn’t watch much today. But this is test match cricket – the runs won’t come easily. The guys have got to get their heads down and graft. So once again, they will have to rely on the bowlers to get them out of a pickle.
17 Nov 2011, 22:07 pm
My first post on here guys so please be gentle with me…I like the idea of a Northern Hemisphere club playing in SA by the same token I hope SA may do the same and have one of the Super15 games up North. I went to the Sharks game at Twickenham last season cracking game (apart from Sharks losing of course) I had so many rugby loving friends who have never seen these games live or even on Sky TV, contact me afterwards to express further interest in SA rugby and start following SA teams,thats got to be good for the game.
17 Nov 2011, 22:09 pm
@I am a stormer(I am a stormer)-30:
Very strange tactics indeed- It started when the usual slow scoring Jacques Kallis scored at a rate of knots i have never seen before- and the far less talented Prince tried to play the same- and then as usual it fell to pieces..
Seems like Gary has spent too much time in the company of swashbuckling flair players like Sehwag abnd Donhi and is trying to get SA to play the same
17 Nov 2011, 22:19 pm
@sharkeybathman(sharkeybathman)-31: hi guppybathman.
don’t worry mate, the consensus among sharks fans here was that at least the sharks “won the 2nd half”
17 Nov 2011, 22:24 pm
@sharkeybathman(sharkeybathman)-31: your name isn’t David by any chance?
17 Nov 2011, 22:25 pm
@sharkeybathman(sharkeybathman)-31:
It is a pity that it had to be the dour Sharks team to introduce South African super rugby to Twickenham- a dynamic team like the Stormers for example would have ensured an even more positive response from the British fans
Welcome here anyway- this place’s bark is worse than it’s bite, here are a few lunatics but they are fairly harmless.
17 Nov 2011, 22:29 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-35: BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA! “Dour Sharks” so says the man whose team scored the lowest tries out the top 7 teams in the S15 this year, by quite some margin.
Lol, Sharks have far more of a following in the UK than the Stormers, it was an excellent choice to tap the greatest market share.
17 Nov 2011, 22:32 pm
I see a couple of Sharks jerseys around the UK every now and again, south to north.
Never seen another teams’ jersey once. Except at the Sharks/Crusaders game where some chop was confused and wore a Stormers jersey.
17 Nov 2011, 22:36 pm
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-36:
We play test (winning) rugby and barbarian rugby. That is why the throphy for winning the SA Conference is at newlands.
Not sure about the popularity of the sharks in the UK. The last time I was there I only saw one bloke with a Cheetah jersey at heathrow- no Sharks or Stormers supporters to my surprise, lol.
17 Nov 2011, 22:38 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-38: LOL! A “trophy for winning the conference”! What an esteemed prize that must be… when you take into account the next game’s result at home… seriously, is there even a trophy for “winning” the conference?
17 Nov 2011, 22:40 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-38: the 30,000 crowd (about 3/4s Saffa) confirmed just how popular the Sharks are over here.
17 Nov 2011, 22:42 pm
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-39:
That trophy is much harder to win then the currie cup- home and away against all the sa franchises and also matches against teams like the Saders, Reds etc.
Its a hard- core trophy for sure, i am very proud that we have it safely down there in the shadow of the mountain.
17 Nov 2011, 22:45 pm
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-40:
Seems as if they are more popular in London than in Durban where they struggle to draw crowds?
17 Nov 2011, 22:50 pm
woodenspoon.no mate names Lee…Robzim. There are a few Sharks fans about and I managed to convert more after the Twickenham visit. And I guess thats the point of a game or two (different teams of course) playing in different hemispheres to grow the brand. If you look at football teams in the UK they rarely play pre season games in the UK. The likes of ManU,Chelsea grow their brand in other markets and make millions off shirt sales and merchandise alone. How good would that be if rugby could do the same. It takes time but you gotta start somewhere.
17 Nov 2011, 22:53 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-41: you must be so proud. Next step is to win a real trophy.
17 Nov 2011, 22:54 pm
@sharkeybathman(sharkeybathman)-43: Cool, welcome to the forum. I know a Shark/Bath fan, now I know two.
17 Nov 2011, 23:00 pm
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-44:
We have a good momentum but now that our coaching staff will be leaving for the boks I am a bit worried about next year. And we must sort out our flyhalf problems (PG is a liability) like the sharks must sort out their centre and lock problems.
Anyway, i must go, we are two hours ahead of you, have a good night.
17 Nov 2011, 23:02 pm
Now I’ve got the hang of this posting lark and as a Bath fan also. I would like thank WP for Francois Louw. That boy is pulling up trees and is well on the way to becoming a cult figure at the Rec, and I don’t think he has even hit his stride yet…
17 Nov 2011, 23:03 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-46: Coetzee and Erasmus leaving WP for the Boks will be a blessing in disguise for WP… and a disaster for SA…
17 Nov 2011, 23:26 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-35: Where were you sitting at the game bud? There was a good turn-out of all southern hemisphere types including a lot of Ozzies! All I can relate to is seeing a good game of rugby at Twickers,maybe the genuine rugby supporters should appreciate watching games in different settings rather than being one-eyed “team” supporters
18 Nov 2011, 02:18 am
Now look who has egg on their face.
Titus should have at the very least been honest about his intentions instead of peddling a pathetic and baseless one-liner about Newlands being the “home of rugby”. Even if it is the home, it’s the home of SOUTH AFRICAN rugby. This is not a SOUTH AFRICAN game.
Even disregarding everything above it is more befitting to hold this game in Greenpoint on the basis that it is not a normal game, it is 2 foreign sides coming to play a unique one-off game in Cape Town. We have a brand spanking new international stadium crying out to be used but Province had to force their involvement and go and dig their toes in to try and drag everyone back to their precious fossil of a stadium to milk a few more $$$. It is nothing to do with them, they didn’t even broker the damn game!!
18 Nov 2011, 02:36 am
And WP fans allow Titus and Wagner to remain at the helm… hilarious…
18 Nov 2011, 04:42 am
Cape Town becomes the laughing stock of the world…….
Thanks WPRU……..
A hOLES
18 Nov 2011, 05:18 am
@grant10(grant10)-52:
How many of the moaners on here would actually have gone to this… how many of the moaners will actually do something about Titus and co?
Why not flood social media sites… why not boycott the first S15 game or the Argie test which would hurt even more?
Alot of hot air…
18 Nov 2011, 05:42 am
@grant10(grant10)-52: thanks to your WP morons in suits i’m not going to see SMIT play for Sarries in january now
18 Nov 2011, 06:38 am
Well done Province, you did the right thing…. One day Green Point will be ours at a bargain price….
18 Nov 2011, 07:09 am
A lot of hot air about nothing really.
A NH competition is exactly that a NH competition, what is the purpose of playing a game in the SH ??
If I were a fan of either of these sides I would be pretty piss ed off with them for denying me the opportunity of seeing my side play because of trying to “brand” my team in front of an audience that besides a novelty factor has no real interest in either of the sides involved. There is so much HC rugby on TV , why the need to play live HC games in the SH , I would not be pleased if the Stormers played the Blues (as an example) in London rather than in CT !! Denying me the chance to see these sides.
The only reason why I am mildly disappointed is that I am going to be “rugby hungry” at that stage and was looking forward to it suppressing my appetite.
I still hold the top brass responsible for the farking up of the deal, farking amateur hour by the amateurs suits !!!!!
18 Nov 2011, 07:10 am
Good morning all.
My advice to Wp..
sell Newlands – move… financially it will benefeit WP/Stormers on the long run.
and with the spare cash please buy Tobie Titus some teeth…
18 Nov 2011, 07:28 am
@justrugby(justrugby)-56:sarries knows cape town is fertile ground for international teams, ed griffith must’ve been at the stormers/crusaders game and saw all those StormSaders and wants a piece of the action.
18 Nov 2011, 07:30 am
egg on the face for breakfast at the newlands offices…nice…
18 Nov 2011, 07:40 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-58:
LOL…………………… Stormsaders have no affiliation to the NH, it is the boys from the islands that do it for them………………………… the pale legs from the North they have no interest in !!!
18 Nov 2011, 07:41 am
@Staal(Staal)-57:
Nee man……………. daai laaste comment was lelik !!!
18 Nov 2011, 07:44 am
@justrugby(justrugby)-61: ag askies man – dit het uitgeglip! Sorry…
18 Nov 2011, 07:46 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-58: on that StormSaders tip: bra, ive lost faith in coloured people. i saw one wearing an ABs t-shirt with the final score printed on the front and numbber 12 on the back with Ma’a Nonu’s name written in italic cursive font. talk about fabrication at its best.
18 Nov 2011, 07:48 am
@SHARKattack(mabu)-63:
Even they won’t support the duh Villiers circus.
18 Nov 2011, 07:55 am
@Staal(Staal)-62:
18 Nov 2011, 08:05 am
This Stomersaders issue is blown out of all proportion… there are maybe several hundred at any one game at newlands… or perhaps even a thousand or at a stretch… out of 50 000…?? 1 or 2 per cent…
there are way more sharks fans in cape town than stormersaders… you see their silly little stickers on their cars wherever you go…
why does no one complain about them…?
and while most of the stormersader fans are actually a lot of fun and add to the atmosphere of newlands… the sharks fans are really OTT loud and obnoxious… cheering excessively just to make the point…
give me the stormersader fans any day…
18 Nov 2011, 08:07 am
No one gets painted in a good light after these shenanigans, but the archaic way in which SA provinces r run by committee is what makes it look stupid, the power of these northern money men is apparent, at the drop of a hat they can afford to drop these ideas, kinda like how they run everything else, mining, goverenments etc
18 Nov 2011, 08:08 am
No one gets painted in a good light after these shenanigans, but the archaic way in which SA provinces r run by committee is what makes it look stupid
18 Nov 2011, 08:09 am
The serious power in rugby is moving to these rupert like moguls who can snap fingers and make people jump
18 Nov 2011, 08:17 am
oops
Fark sorry double post
18 Nov 2011, 08:19 am
I don’t get this whole “keep the NH rugby away from us” argument. I know Tac put forward some labored reasoning about their income and ability to lure SA players, but that’s just hogwash and his attempt to stir. But a lot more of you seem genuinely affronted by the thought of European clubs playing here. Why? It’s a rugby spectacle. It’s like a band coming to play in your town. And, in this case, it involves a bunch of bladdy good SA players. I’d love to see them play. I wish they could have just given a big middle finger to both WP and the City and played the game at Athlone Stadium.
And I hope Tobie Titus and Rob Wagner have just put a couple more nails in their coffins.
18 Nov 2011, 08:26 am
@bryce_in_oz(bryce_in_oz)-53: I was going to the game so I could pelt fat boy with overripe tomatoes….
18 Nov 2011, 08:27 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-54: I was looking forward to seeing you guys……real pity my man
18 Nov 2011, 08:27 am
@>^..^< katman(katman)-71:
i agree with you katters…
i see it as another event or concert… which just happens to feature rugby… with not a few saffa and cpt players in the teams… so an opportunity to enjoy some – hopefully – good rugby and a social occasion…
plus…
i see it as a super marketing opportunity for cape town… a lesser version of the soccer world cup…
lots of people in europe and the rest of the world would have watched the game… and all thought… ‘damn… wish i lived in that beautiful place….!’
people have to lose their laager mentality and insular attitudes…
the world is a small place these days… the more we interact with it and are seen and perceived as a normal part of it… the better it will be for south africa…
18 Nov 2011, 08:29 am
i think there is still a good chance the game will be played here…
18 Nov 2011, 08:30 am
@>^..^< katman(katman)-71: totally agree
18 Nov 2011, 08:31 am
@ufo(ufo)-74: top post my man…my sentiments exactly
18 Nov 2011, 08:33 am
@grant10(grant10)-77:
cool bud…
18 Nov 2011, 08:33 am
So where did this cancelled games origins spring from?
Saracens contacting WP
Saracens contacting City of Cape Town
WP contacting Saracens
City of Cape Town contacting Saracens
My bet it was some variation of the last option. The council looking outside the box to get income for their white elephant
18 Nov 2011, 08:37 am
@ufo(ufo)-74: Correct. It’s like some people here are still afraid of Communism, Rock Music and Bellbottoms.
18 Nov 2011, 08:38 am
@>^..^< katman(katman)-80:
hahaha…
Ed Zachary…!!
18 Nov 2011, 08:40 am
Farken Newlands ******* ! now I soma gonna boycott the dam place. I use to love that place but the powers that be are doing everything in their power to push us away !
18 Nov 2011, 08:43 am
@ufo(ufo)-74:
Lager mentality?
Are you talking about Bod?
Because he’s a sangria man nown
18 Nov 2011, 08:46 am
@ufo(ufo)-74: totally agree with this post of yours.
@ufo(ufo)-66: totally disagree with this post of yours.
18 Nov 2011, 08:50 am
A once off game will achieve nothing, little marketing of CT will take place besides those tuned in to watch the game in the NH which will be massively insignificant.
Joining a NH competition and to competively play in it , then a different story totally.
Ther Saffa players you guys are talking of are mostly players that could not command a starting place in any SAFFA conference side , and that includes the Bok captain, so essentially instead if wattching U2 you will be watching the equivallent of Ballyhoo !!!
Off to play golf at Mowbray, the wind is set to fark me up 6-0, 6-0 !!!
Cheers
18 Nov 2011, 08:52 am
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-84:
You have to understand that UFO loves the Caped Spanish Crusaders like a father loves his drug addictted child.
Frustrated yet blindly believing that one day they will turn the corner.
Statistics would suggest otherwise.
18 Nov 2011, 08:53 am
@bryce_in_oz(bryce_in_oz)-53:
3 friends (all Cape Town based) had decided to take their families to the game. 12 people and that was just the 1st call. I had not begun talking to mates.
None of my mates will take their families to Newlands. We have daughters and wives that dont love the game. They love an event and Newlands does not cut it.
I am not a WP supporter but I go to 5 or 6 games a year. This year will be zero.
I hope they dont play Varsity Cup games at Newlands because I am really looking forward to it in 2012
18 Nov 2011, 08:56 am
@Gunther(gunther)-83: But he likes to take the edge off with half coke zero. Calls it the Skinny Katembria.
18 Nov 2011, 08:56 am
I must be in an argumentative mood this week.
Is it just me, or is anyone else actually keen to hear some details about why the WPRU wanted to move the game to Newlands instead of CT Stadium?
Don’t get me wrong, I’d have loved to have gone there and watched the game. BUT I’m suspicious of the City’s attempts to strongarm WPRU into taking over their White Elephant because they were too STUPID and BLINDED by the glammer of the Soccer World Cup to do a proper study into the long term longevity of the facilities after the 4 GAMES (I mean, 4 Games for crying out loud, what’s that R4 BILLION a game???!!!???)
How about adressing WPRU’s concerns about the suitability of the stadium before they built it, i.e things like corporate hospitality? That way the transition would have been more attractive etc.
Were they just hoping that all this lovely publicity and goodwill generated by the games would have people flocking to the city? Increased revenue for local business? They’d have to go a long way to make up R4 Billion in extra municipal taxes…..
No, until we get details on this one, I’m inclined to be on the side of WPRU, until it is made obvious that they are simply being objectionable and small minded.
Fact is, Griffiths’ motives here are as suspicious as anyones. Was he doing it out of a sense of altruism?? Not likely.
Just because Titus is a posturing fool doesn’t mean he’s always wrong, as much as it pains me to say it.
But no, you guys all go off based on some propoganda statement made by our mayor, who’s biggest impression on me was her leading a march back in the day for the UDF screaming “One Settler One Bullet” at the top of her lungs. Then forming an “Independant” party who dissolved at the first juicy offer from the DA. A nice position in Cape Town. Forget the whole credo that you founded the party on, being the independant watchdog for thos who have no voice yadda yadda.
Credible indeed.
You guys are so gullible.
18 Nov 2011, 08:58 am
@Gunther(gunther)-83:
hehehe…
he’s escaped the laager for a larger lager… and converted to sangria… so we can hardly accuse bod of being insular… even if he has connections hassles…!!
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-84:
shot man..!!
18 Nov 2011, 08:59 am
Fact is, Griffiths could have asked the city to host it without the WPRU. There’s nothing comelling him to go this route.
He’s the bad guy here. WPRU will protect their interests, as i would expect them to.
The City is doing the same, as i would expect, given the monumental fuckup they are now saddled with.
Who’s interrests is Griffiths protecting??
18 Nov 2011, 09:01 am
@justrugby(justrugby)-85:
JR… any marketing opportunity is better than no marketing opportunity…
what is irrelevant is whether or not their players would command a starting spot in our teams…
enjoy the golf…
to day the wind will be the winner…!!
18 Nov 2011, 09:02 am
@ufo(ufo)-90:
El bodo is being insular on the Iberian Peninsula.
18 Nov 2011, 09:03 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-89: But you are conflating two issues here: The long-term home of WP rugby and this once-off game, that has nothing to do with WP Rugby.
Many local soccer teams have played once-off games in Green Point as a spectacle and to market the game to a wider audience. There were a number of double headers there last year that attracted big crowds, and most of these teams are based elsewhere.
This was not a Province/Stormers game, and there was absolutely no obligation to move there after this game was played. This was just WPRU being vindictive because some odd clause said they can. And clearly there were no winners here.
18 Nov 2011, 09:04 am
@justrugby(justrugby)-85:
So you are in the camp that supports idea of moving North.
How do you think that would be organised?
1. All 5 SA teams enter as a block to Heineken Cup
2. 1 team per year is added to the comp the others do nothing
3. All 5 go through promotion relegation
18 Nov 2011, 09:04 am
@Gunther(gunther)-86: Without the Cape Crusaders I’s have no-one to abuse and mock on my way to the stadium.
I’d be forced to turn my attention to the opposition supporters like the Bulls. They are a much tougher prospect. Not the easy takedowns that the locals are. Surpisingly feisty they are.
As for the Sharks supporters, well they are quite nimble and quick. I haven’t managed to catch one yet. They bolt at the first sign of confrontation.
18 Nov 2011, 09:07 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-96:
Indeed.
Those horns on the helmet are there for a reason.
18 Nov 2011, 09:08 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-89:
I’m with you on this bud… about the whole stadium move that is… i do think wp are being petty about this actual game though… we’ve had other rugby matches at CTS… so why is this one a problem…
but as far as the stadium move is concerned… as i said to grant yesterday… why should wpru ‘fold’ to the city…?
why does the city feel they have to force wf’s hand…?
the move is inevitable… why doesn’t the city approach wp with a little less confrontation and wagging fingers and make the sort of deal now that they would HAVE to make if this drags on for several years…?
a lot of people are blaming wpru for this… but the city is wasting our tax-payers money on a white elephant… sort it out sooner rather than later so that the costs becomes wpru’s and not yours and mine…
18 Nov 2011, 09:08 am
@>^..^< katman(katman)-94: See my post 91.
That is why i would be keen to see the details of the issue. Why didn’t WP want to host it at the stadium?
Only then will I form an opinion based on my judgement of the facts.
As I said, Griffiths could have played here regardless.
There’s more to this.
No doubt.
18 Nov 2011, 09:10 am
@SHARKattack(mabu)-63: hey, i wasn’t saying have a go at “coloured” people.
if the guy wants to mark his team’s victory with a homemade t-shirt, so be it.
i’ve seen the strangest gear won by Bok supporters chap, like this ou balie that was wearing a real springbok hide waistcoat…don’t hate
18 Nov 2011, 09:11 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-89:
You are making this over-political.
At the end of the day the City does not carry much blame here
I have no idea why you express anger at them.
The City
* They believed protocol was followed. OK it wasn’t exactly but they are not rugby types
* The Soccer White Elephant is not the point. Sure mistakes were made but dont forget that was a prev administration
* Its the Citys job to make the best of the Stadium and thats what they are doing
* is bthe Citys job to promote Cape Town. Many Sarries supporters were going to visit. Cancelled trips now.
* A single HC game does not weaken their negotiations
Saracens
* We understand why they want to play at CT Stadium. For them it was CT Stadium or wait
* They botched the protocol a bit. They went to their board and SARU but not to WPRU
WPRU
* Put aside the fact that they have the legal right to refuse CT Stadium as a venue. I acknowledge that BUT
* Whilst they may not have received official letters they knew about the plans some time ago. I had heard about them and I am not involved in rugby. So why not phone Saracens and ask them? Pig headed by them
* They say they have to protect the interests of the clubs and their fans (the people that watch rugby). I am interested to understand how this has protected my interests in any way
18 Nov 2011, 09:12 am
@ufo(ufo)-98: They may well be being petty, I’m no fan of Titus at the best of times, but we are speculating without knowing the facts. As I said, Griffiths could have played the game here regardless. There is nothing preventing him from still doing that.
I’d personally LOVE to see a move from Newlands to CT stadium. No question.
But not as you say with WP being saddled with a loss making asset that will pull them deeper into the hole.
i was really looking forward to seeing the game there too.
I am dissapointed and if the facts come out against WP, then I will be as scathing of them as I am on the fools the greenlighted the stadium to start with.
18 Nov 2011, 09:13 am
@Gunther(gunther)-93:
that he is…
18 Nov 2011, 09:13 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-89: hhhmmm, you want every politician in this country held to what they said and did during apartheid?
18 Nov 2011, 09:15 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-99: I’ll admit I only have a sketchy take on what happened here, but I understand it was a direct agreement with the city, and that WPRU weren’t approached or involved. But they involved themselves when they invoked some clause that said they had the final say in where any rugby games in Cape Town are held.
18 Nov 2011, 09:18 am
@Biscuit(Biscuit)-101: I know all that, and If i was at the city now i would also be using whatever leverage I had to try and get WP to move there.
We don;t know why WP refused to host the game there. That’s what I’m saying. We need to find out.
If WP move to the stadium for this one game and it’s a huge success then the City will have a much stronger hand in attempting to force WP to move there. After all, it’s what the fans want, isn’t it?
Do you see where I’m coming from?
All we have is the city saying that they want WPRU to move and to reconsider and all that, we have no detail on the deal they want WP to accept.
18 Nov 2011, 09:20 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-104: Please explain.
What I’m saying is that She’s hardly the voice of reason and consistancy. She may have good points and may even be doing a great job, but people are painting her as the good guy here without knowing the facts.
18 Nov 2011, 09:21 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-102:
sure we don’t know the facts… i acknowledge that…
but where i think wp is being petty is with the timing of their announcement…
if they were going to invoke their ‘legal rights’… why didn’t they do so at the get-go…? why wait until now…?
that suggests to me that they were okay with event initially but for some reason have changed their minds…
to me… that’s being petty…
18 Nov 2011, 09:21 am
Expect to see City of Cape Town offer to host a Bledisloe Cup Match
18 Nov 2011, 09:23 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-104: And to answer your question, yes I do. i have to account for my actions, why shouldn’t they??
18 Nov 2011, 09:24 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-107:
At face value you are saying she should be judged on her past, presumably because you think she hasn’t moved on.
All the while you have.
18 Nov 2011, 09:27 am
i still feel a straight swap, one stadium for the other, is the way to go…
and the relative value of the two stadiums shouldn’t be the determining factor…
what the cape town public.. and the city… should weigh up… is the relative costs to the city and taxpayers…
the city could tear newlands down and turn it into an office precinct… wpru can build new boxes at CTS at their expense… and recover their money from rugby matches, rock concerts and other events…
no further burden to the city or to the tax payers… the city makes money… wpru makes money…
everyone happy…
18 Nov 2011, 09:28 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-107: what was unreasonable & “inconsistant” about her fighting for her rights in the UDF?
18 Nov 2011, 09:28 am
@ufo(ufo)-108: Fair comment, but this was probably used as a bargaining chip with the council. “if we cannot come to mutually acceptable terms we will invoke our right to veto”
They couldn’t, so not the WPRU have to do that, or risk being seen as weak to the city, which given the fact that we both know that they’ll probably move at some stage, is a mouch more valuable “victory” (forWPRU only of course) than the potential backlash of Griffiths saying that he doesn;t want to play at Newlands.
It’s Saracens that has pulled out after all. I understand why, but it wouldn’t surpise me that this is the end result of everyone, including Saracens, SARU,WPRU and the City not going about this properly from day 1.
All 4 parties need to be held accountable. Not just the one that wasn’t quick enough on the draw with their press statement.
18 Nov 2011, 09:31 am
@ufo(ufo)-112:
I assume the Council has a mortgage of some sort that they are trying to deal with.
How does a straight swap of stadia clear that burden?
18 Nov 2011, 09:32 am
@Brads(Brads)-111: WE are ALL judged in life on an accumulation of our action, verbal and otherwise.
I’m not a De Lille hater by the way.
Just a sceptic.
@Transformation(Transformation)-113: I’m judging her by the accumulation of her public actions, including her actions as UDF, ID and DA representatives.
You are picking on the UDF part, because it suits your “struggle justifies all behaviour’ mindset.
18 Nov 2011, 09:36 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-106:
OK but you did bring a lot of ancient political history into your comments but lets agree to dump that
Your statement -> If WP move to the stadium for this one game and it’s a huge success then the City will have a much stronger hand in attempting to force WP to move there. After all, it’s what the fans want, isn’t it?
I acknowledge that may be the thinking. If it is I understand why WPRU dont want rugby played at CT Stadium.
Of course we dont know whether its their thinking (they are hardly going to admit it)
Lets assume it is.
If it is then they are going about the negotiations in the wrong way. They have refused to come to the negotiating table. From what I understand the City is willing to spend a fortune on the stadium to accomodate more suites. But for that to happen they have to talk tio the City.
So they decide to be aggressive and intransigent?
Maybe their tactic is to wait until the City is more desperate and will therefore cave to easier terms.
A negotiating tactic but the aggressive, refuse to talk approach will win them no friends (not even amongst their own fans).
Many are thinking that WPRU are being silly. If WPRU was at the negotiating table they would come across as more reasonable people trying to work out a solution.
Right now they just look like stubborn, aggressive, immature children
It has hurt their image and its hurt Cape Town’s image.
Not good business
18 Nov 2011, 09:38 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-116: now you assume to know my “mindset”?
you’re ill-equipped to grasp my mindset chap, let’s get that out of the way.
is you scepticism reserved for de lille or even for all of the former Nats that are in the DA now?
18 Nov 2011, 09:39 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-114: you are saying that people are getting sucked in, and don’t know the facts, and then basing your arguments on things you can’t possibly know.
At the end of the day, WP have the most power in this situation, as they have the right to decide where the game is played. They are, alongside the city, politically invested in this matter. Saracens aren’t, and aren’t interested in playing political games in South Africa or in Cape Town.
Perhaps WP are using this as a bargaining chip in a larger game, a well thought out plan in a wider political game versus the city, or perhaps it was a reaction against the city and an attempt to make some money. We don’t know which one it is, but currently it appears to be a reflex action.
Saracens have been speaking about this game since last season, and talking about hosting the game in Cape Town at the new stadium. Surely WP should have communicated with them about it then, rather than now after tickets have been sold, and people have booked flights from England?
If it is part of a broader political game, the damage it has done to WP rugby administration had better be worth it.
18 Nov 2011, 09:39 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-99</a
probably because they make money out of hosting it at Newlands. In this case, the GPS is direct competition for the income.
18 Nov 2011, 09:40 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-116:
Fair enough, I don’t have any knowledge of her other than what you have posted.
Which was of course her comment while an active member of the UDF.
If you say she is still consistently anti harmony, I accept that.
18 Nov 2011, 09:41 am
@Brads(Brads)-115:
by turning newlands into an office precinct… selling the development rights or developing it themselves and leasing the office space…
i also believe the national government has to come to the party for that… it was them and fifa who basically insisted the stadium be built in the first place… i know there have been talks about the government helping out all the stadiums… not sure how far they’ve gone though…
18 Nov 2011, 09:43 am
hehehe…
Stormersboy…?
you’ve got your argument now…
wish i could stay and take part but have to run…
cheers all… have a good one…!!
18 Nov 2011, 09:45 am
@Biscuit(Biscuit)-101:
Income from the game at Newlands goes to WPRFU which includes the clubs. It also helps buy and pay players, maintain the stadium etc. That’s why they insisted on Newlands.
18 Nov 2011, 09:47 am
@ufo(ufo)-122:
So you are saying that because of the hubris of the government, the local council and SA Football, Rugby will be the ultimate winner.
Hmmm. I have changed my mind.
WPRU are clever buggers.
18 Nov 2011, 09:50 am
@Biscuit(Biscuit)-117: They are certainly points down on the PR department for sure. They need a more savvy media liason to handle stuff like this.
As i said, we just don’t know. That’s what i’m saying.
Befor we go after the WPRU like some bloggers have been for the last 2 days, lets get the detail. If it turns out that WPRU are indeed being “stubborn, aggressive, immature children” as you say, I’ll be at the front of the queue agreeing with that sentiment.
On the political issue, and if you had read the thread yesterday it may make more sense.
Some bloggers were using the “she’s the mayor for crying out loud, show some respect!!!” tactic to attempt to refute the suggestion that any comments that she may have made in this regard are above reproach and must be seen as the only reasonable stance to take. My post was in anticipation of that same attempted rebuttal.
As a background, i come from a political family in a sense. My great -grandfather was in fact the Mayor of Cape Town, and although he died when I was fairly young, he left a legacy that still lasts today. However he was hadly a perfect man in many respects and him simply holding the office of mayor for a few years hadly makes him so, and it;s within that context that I was positioning the remarks of Patricia De Lille.
18 Nov 2011, 09:53 am
The more than meets the eye is likely to be a power struggle WITHIN the union.
SAIL flexing their muscles.
Get ready for a rumble in the mahogany jungle.
Tobie Titus is ready for the rough stuff he’s already taken his teef out.
18 Nov 2011, 09:54 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-118: Well you seem to assume plenty when responding to my posts, so allow me the same level of ignorance as far as your mindset is concerned as you have as far as mine is concerned.
18 Nov 2011, 09:55 am
@ufo(ufo)-112:
Hey, that was my suggestion, yesterday.
Seriously, though, the City will never recoup the cost, whilst it will continue to incur further losses in maintenance for the next few years. It makes sense to do the swap and write off the loss rather than increasing it.
18 Nov 2011, 09:55 am
Couple of issues at work here.
WP has a mandate (and rightly so) to protect their interests, that of their stakeholders and investors. This not only ensures the game is run professionally but also that there is control instead of anarchy.
However, this would imply that the interests they want to protect directly affects their stakeholders and investors – meaning funds entrusted to WP Rugby by these individuals or groups is used to get a positive return on their investment. WP will use these investments to broker deals, bid for opportunities that might come around to bring their investors ‘what they pay for’.
To engage in bid processes costs money and resources (those of your investors), and once you do that (spent money or resources on something) you assume an entitlement or ownership of some sort in whatever you engage in (if you pay for something you either own it or hope to own it).
So for me the question really is; does WP rugby, or has WP rugby engaged any of the parties involved in any way to assume what would then rightfully be some form of ownership?
My information suggests not.
This whole project was driven from the start by Saracens – they spent time, resources and money to investigate, negotiate, and ultimately get the consent from their own bosses (ERC), the big bosses (IRB) and the bosses of the country they planned to visit (SARU). So for all intent and purposes the ‘owners’ of this project or bid is firstly Saracens.
Upon news that they have successfully negotiated with all relevant parties, they released a statement naming Cape Town as their city of choice.
Once this was made public, the City of Cape Town recognised an opportunity and informed Saracens that they would love to host the event if they so desired (bidding for hosting rights).
WP – up to this point nothing.
Consulting their (Saracens) stake holders they also announced Cape Town Stadium would be their venue of choice. When the news was made public (just over a week ago) their CEO announced that they would like to play in CTS but also stated twice, on record, the decision had to be ratified by WP Rugby (who at this point have not engaged with anyone on the matter).
Given the ‘relationship’ between WP Rugby and Sarries, their CEO eluded to the fact that this would merely be a matter of course or rubberstamping.
Then, and with their first engagement in this whole saga (which has been publicised since June this year) WP released a statement saying its Newlands or nothing. In response, Sarries said they would engage with all parties and let everyone know of the outcome. City of Cape Town invited WP Rugby to engage them in talks to find an amicable solution as this is an historic event.
As we all now know, Saracens then called the whole thing off.
Now one would assume that the ‘talks’ that occurred led to a stalemate which resulted in this thing being called off. What is interesting is that Titus from WP admitted they have not talked to anyone and given the City’s comments a couple of days ago: “How can WP Rugby suspend talks (on this and the long term negotiations) if they have not even started yet?” – they did not plan to talk to anyone in any event. This after Titus quite publicly (and embarrassingly) was quoted in the media as saying there is no formal relationship with Saracens at all which given the context it was said in and his attitude in saying it – must have pissed Sarries off especially given how they came to WP’s aid in the last 12 months with loan players.
So two things bother me here.
Firstly, WP’s inability or plain unwillingness to talk to anyone (including Sarries) taking a ‘my way or the highway’ attitude. They are making enemies where they should be making friends.
Secondly, how WP claim to act in the interest of their stakeholders yet they have done nothing to take ownership or responsibility in bringing their stakeholders world class events – and when there was a possibility to still rescue the situation, flatly refusing to engage anyone on the matter.
Is that acting in the interest of their stakeholders? Not a chance.
I have for years alluded to the incompetence in some quarters within this union – today, just perhaps, the public will see this too.
18 Nov 2011, 09:56 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-116:
hahahahha.
you don’t understand the struggle dynamic.
silly man.
A huge amount of angst could have been saved had the people who built these white elephants consulted EVERYBODY before they built them.
Instead of arrogantly assuming that they would just fall into line.
18 Nov 2011, 09:58 am
@Brads(Brads)-121: Again, like Transie, you are focussing purely on the UDF part of my post.
Read it again, i spoke of more than just that. It’s an accumulation of actions which suggest that she has shown herself to be inconsistant and therefore is not the paragon of absolute truth that some were making her out to be.
She’s a politician after all, and that in itself should be enough to cast serious doubt on anything she says.
18 Nov 2011, 10:01 am
This would never have happened in Durban. Rugby should be the winner in the end no matter which stadium gets it.
Those Capetonians mincing around like gaylords wanting everything their own way is typical.
18 Nov 2011, 10:01 am
This is just plain nastiness from WP. They are purposely trying to prevent the City from making this stadium work for the tax payer. Fark them. They are dangerously getting close to me hating them more than the Sharks.
18 Nov 2011, 10:02 am
Diary of an AB fan – day 26 as world champions..
I see the Nh club sides have cancelled their game in SA… bwahahaha This only ever adds weight to the whole furphy of SA moving its rugby up to the NH… if you cant accomodate two club teams how on earth are you going to accomodate involvement on a regular basis in the NH comps?
this AB fan is laughing so hard at the sheer incompetence of SA Rugby…
and i bet many administrators and “money men” in the Nh will see this as yet another reason why SA rugby wont be asked to join the NH leagues..
even us kiwis and Aussies know how difficult it is trying to deal with SA rugby, so much so that their incompetence is dismissed by “SA Supporters” as conspiracy..
what a laugh…
18 Nov 2011, 10:02 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-132:
UDF…ugly domestic fight.
18 Nov 2011, 10:03 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-130: I imagine when Saracens allowed Schalk Britz to play for WP during the Super 15 this year, they would have thought it could be the beginning of a relationship between WP and Saracens.
This game, and WP’s consent to the game, would have further extended this relationship, a relationship which could have benefited WP in a number of different ways, far beyond any money that WP would have made by hosting it at Newlands.
It appears to have been a distinct lack of foresight and insight from WP as they now walk about without anything, souring relationships between them and Saracens, and them and the city.
18 Nov 2011, 10:04 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-132:
I was perfectly fair in my reply, and actually accepted your views because I didn’t have any knowledge of the woman at all.
If any re-reading is required….
18 Nov 2011, 10:05 am
@WOLFMAN21(WOLFMAN21)-137:
Firstly WP is stupid for making the City of CT an enemy – and has now arguably made a rugby enemy (with strong SA ties) in Sarries.
Secondly, I cannot see this as acting in the best interest of the people they say they do.
18 Nov 2011, 10:07 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-130: Thanks for that elaboration. That does put the affair in some context.
i must ask this though, in terms of your post above, am I correct in comcluding that WPRU were not consulted at the beginning of this process? That the initial talks were between the City and Saracens?
If this is true, then really those 2 parties are equally at fault in not clearing up the WPRU’s stance in this matter sooner? You implied that Saracens “assumed” that WP would be behind it without checking until much later when the announcements had been made and it had all progressed some way down the track? If that is true then i would expect Anton R to give Eddie G as big a smack as Tobie T deserves (just for being Tobie T)
I agree that the WPRU have made huge blunder after huge blunder over the years, and that this would be entirely within character.
Thing is, i don’t belive that this game can easily be seperated from the greater picture of WPRU moving to CT Stadium, and within that context the negotiations (or lack thereof) take on a different hue.
18 Nov 2011, 10:07 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-139:
SAIL will either sell their share or try and increase it a boot everybody out.
18 Nov 2011, 10:07 am
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-134:
Really!
Do we know why the WPRU backed out or are we making assumptions?
18 Nov 2011, 10:09 am
@Gunther(gunther)-131: Ed Zachery. I obviously don’t.
18 Nov 2011, 10:09 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-139: Very narrow minded, short term and foolish approach from WP.
It has been clear that Saracens want to host this game in Cape Town for a good 4 or 5 months, and only now, after tickets have been sold do WP decide to get involved.
Once again, SA rugby administration is shocking.
18 Nov 2011, 10:12 am
@poppa69(poppa69)-135:
Hello poppa
Another day starts I see with flaying the collective hides of the locals for an intro.
18 Nov 2011, 10:15 am
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-134: count me in
I will become KINGS FAN….
With King Luke as captain I will find my spritual home.
18 Nov 2011, 10:17 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-132: your last para is rather odd…..
I know loads of poiticians…..some of whom have made huge sacrifices for this country….
Not all are bad….
18 Nov 2011, 10:17 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-140:
As Griffiths said; WP Rugby knew about this in June already. When Sarries announced they received the all clear from all authorities – the only party that engaged them was CTS.
In announcing their ‘preferred’ choice of venue (it is after all their project of which they are the only party investing anything into making this a reality) according to their stakeholders they made it clear that it has to be ratified by WP Rugby first.
Couple of issues I have here.
WP has NEVER engaged anyone. Not at any stage did they inform Sarries that they would rather prefer them hosting it at Newlands (for their stakeholders sake) or tried to make any deal of any form.
They wait till all the work has been done (by Sarries) and then just release a statement saying Newlands or nothing – a statement Sarries did not even know about until a SA radio sports commentator phoned them and asked them for comment!
Sarries, as well as the COCT was well aware WP rugby had to ratify this. COCT threw their name in a hat and invited WP to chat to them which would have seen a historic match played in CPT, tourist revenue, broadcasted to 11 European countries via Sky etc etc etc (THAT was the COCT main interest in this event – a boost for the city itself).
Sarries, after WP’s statement said they would chat to WP – it was revealed by Titus himself they did not talk to Sarries and given his earlier comment about Sarries and their unwillingness to chat to COCT it is safe to assume WP is simply not interested in talking to anyone.
I am just happy I am not a suite owner or season ticket holder at Newlands – because I would have been pissed at this outcome.
18 Nov 2011, 10:18 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-126: you are being grossly disingenuous now any comments about “respect for the cape town mayor” were made against comments like these:
“She could run around, shouting ‘djou ma se p0#$’, and ‘ik gaan djou lem’, ranting and raving like someone that has drank too much methylated spirits – but in the end, that’s all she can do.”
“I am just mentioning that unless De Lille has some form of rights to Newlands, she can dance around, baring her gums and that’s about it. People will just look at her like the mad woman she is.”
“She was mos the leader of the PAC wasn’t she ? Wasn’t the PAC listed by the CIA as a terrorist organisation ?”
and NOT regarding anything she said in her letter regarding the WP/CT stadium/ Saracens issue. if you feel the above comments were proper that’s another issue but don’t try to play useless mind games here.
18 Nov 2011, 10:19 am
@WOLFMAN21(WOLFMAN21)-144:
Is that the reason?
Or is it like McDonalds getting a little miffed when someone down the road starts selling burgers as big mac’s and tells the local franchise, stop bitching, we will pay you a cut, but only what we think you should get.
From what has been posted here today, WPRU has some sort of charter where they own the sport in Western Province.
18 Nov 2011, 10:20 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-128: hehehe you think i have an opinion on your “mindset”?
the plot thickens.
18 Nov 2011, 10:21 am
Would have been great to have had this game at Cape Town Stadium. Now WP has gone and messed it up for many. What a huge pity.
They could have used Moses Mabhida Stadium. For me it is still the most beautiful stadium that was built in SA for the wc. The location is not as beautiful as where Cape Town Stadium is but MB is a magificent stadium.
18 Nov 2011, 10:21 am
Right……
we select PDV and Rassie for HC and DOR for boks…
then it is Namibia for me…..
and with these lame duck WP administartors it may be EP Kings and King Luke……
Hope we get superrugby in 2013
18 Nov 2011, 10:24 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-149: fark that dood that said that about De Lille….marhafarker that he is…
18 Nov 2011, 10:25 am
@Puma(Puma)-152:
yip
Sarries allowed us the Don Carstens deal
Schalk Brits as well
this is how we thank our friends.
Dom dorners
18 Nov 2011, 10:25 am
deon carstens
18 Nov 2011, 10:25 am
Speaking of those poor souls that owns season tickets and suites at Newlands…
When last did WP rugby host a major test?
They had a disinterested France during the SWC, nothing in 2011, no B&I test in 2009 and only the Pumas in 2012?
Last test of importance was Aus in 2009…
WP really doing their bit to bring spectacular events to you guys…
18 Nov 2011, 10:30 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-157: exactly right……
18 Nov 2011, 10:30 am
@grant10(grant10)-147: Yes, and some of them are my friends as you know.
Doesn’t mean that a great deal of them are also ego driven powermaniacs who’s biggest priority is not serving the communities that vote them in but rather to get re-elected.
This is not an exclusively SA phenomenon, I would apply this equally throughout the world.
Let’s rather put it this way:
It’s the 90% that spoil it for the rest.
18 Nov 2011, 10:31 am
@Brads(Brads)-145: of course Brads, just trying to show them the obvious error in “lets go up north” scenario..
if they cant even organise a club game (or allow it to happen) how on earth are they going to get 5 teams ushered in?
this only shows what the rest of the world knows… sad really
18 Nov 2011, 10:32 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-89:
HOLY CRAAAAP!!!!!!! I couldn’t have said it better!!!!! FULLY AGREE WITH EVERY WORD…to the letter…
18 Nov 2011, 10:32 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-159: okay…..
18 Nov 2011, 10:32 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-157:
So tell me, Pissant, what lies at the heart of WP’s woes.
From the loss of young players to other unions, to the contracting of expensive hasbeens, to the failure in big games, to the stadium debacle and everything else culminating in the lack of trophies for a DECADE?
Don’t just say incompetent administration, because the administrative landscape is pretty similar across all the big SA unions. Or is it?
Tell me true, what makes the WP administrative setup so much weaker than the likes of the Bulls?
Why are they not dominating SA rugby like they should, given their wealth of feeder schools and universities?
Say it like it is.
18 Nov 2011, 10:33 am
This is absolute bulllshit from WP.
They were never going to have a game at that time of the year, so in effect they would have lost nothing.
Now they’re just being spiteful. If I was the city I would refuse to provide any traffic services, etc to WP on matchdays, ban all parking on pavements in the area.
Fukc WP, and I wish them another 10 years of misery.
18 Nov 2011, 10:33 am
@poppa69(poppa69)-160: I think you will miss us terribly Poppa?
18 Nov 2011, 10:35 am
@grant10(grant10)-165: probably… one gets sick of the opposition (in our case Aussies) being true sportsmen (as evidenced after the semi final)..
we’d much rather be continually referred to as cheats and being named alongside the IRB as arranging WC’s and the like..
builds better relationships that way doesnt it?
18 Nov 2011, 10:35 am
@grant10(grant10)-153: Namibia just phoned and regretfully turned you down. Said it wouldn’t make strategic sense right now to have you on board, whatever that means.
18 Nov 2011, 10:38 am
@My nr1 nr2 too(trupisero)-164: yeah…like uhm..throw a tantrum ek se…grow up divvot
18 Nov 2011, 10:41 am
@poppa69(poppa69)-160:
Quite agree
I am still waiting for an answer to a basic question.
Why would the North want a SA’n team added to the HC, let alone 5
18 Nov 2011, 10:41 am
@poppa69(poppa69)-166: wow, quite selective of you hey, “aussie after the semi”, the same aussies that were celebrating in your face in Hong Kong with cooper smacking richie over the head? the same aussies who were overtly in the Crusaders face in Brisbane when the Reds won to a point where Owen Franks said “it left a bitter taste” ditto with the tri-nations win
anzac spirit indeed
in anycase, why would anyone assume you would sshit where you get your bread poops?
18 Nov 2011, 10:41 am
Zac Guildford is a disgrace to the game.
What an idiot…. kiwis just can’t stop embarrassing themselves…. sad really
18 Nov 2011, 10:44 am
With no weapons, Cooper will smack McCaw Parrot back into his momma’s womb.
Can still not believe that Ritchie was not man enough to stand upp for himself.
Kiwis are like that. If here’s not a handbag within reach, they won’t fight back. That’s the way they roll.
Come to think of it, we should have expected that from the transvestites?
18 Nov 2011, 10:44 am
This debacle must be costing Sarries a fair bit too if they’re now having to refund supporters travel expenses including flights etc. I wonder what will follow after this and whether they will try and recoup some $$$?
18 Nov 2011, 10:45 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-149: You’re making yourself guilty of the very thing you are accusing me of. Yes, comments like that were made, but my rebuttal was not in response to those comments, which you know full well i would not support.
I was contextualising my reservations about De Lille’s comments being accepted as the only side to the story. I’m not a fan of Titus, but I’m equally not one of De Lillie.
An equal opportunity sceptic if you will.
18 Nov 2011, 10:45 am
@Golden Boy(Golden Boy)-168: that seems to be the game WP plays putterface
18 Nov 2011, 10:46 am
@>^..^< katman(katman)-167:
It has something to do with the fact that both supporters’ spots have already been filled. If they allow Grrantie in, they’ll have to build new stadiums…
18 Nov 2011, 10:46 am
@My nr1 nr2 too(trupisero)-164:
If you owned the property rights to some intrinsic asset, would you be happy if someone came in and stole that from you?
18 Nov 2011, 10:47 am
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-163:
I am not part of the organisation, so I can only tell you what can be observed and the deductions I can make from that.
First off, no leadership.
It seems people are either employed or voted into positions into WP Rugby by means of favouritism or nepotism. I don’t need to tell you what the obvious outcome is in any organisation if this is the case – but most importantly you will have incompetence, no sense of accountability, and of course paranoia.
A culture is built in situations like this which encourages toeing the line of the people in charge or being out of a job.
When any individual in any organisation has self-preservation as a priority over all else, then the best interest of the organisation will never be of importance.
This starts at the top (top management) and spreads down to lower level administrators, including coaches, players and believe it or not independent groups or individuals like the media.
I mean when a coach only attends press match conferences with his lawyer present you know something is not right.
How do you change that?
Well those stakeholders and investors we read so often about will need to start demanding accountability. You can only hide stuff from guys like that for so long, sooner or later situations will demand investigation – this for me is one such situation where I believe more people will start asking more questions.
18 Nov 2011, 10:47 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-170: it is such a rare occurence for them to beat us, we can understand their joy…
would be similar no doubt to a SA team winning the Super rugby comp… such a rarity that one should expect over exuberance on occassion…
still dont recall an Aussie coach or Captain (current of course) complaining about a rigged WC…do you? (PDV – must get bums on seats so better they won because they have a World Cup next year – LMFAO too funny, and shows how far up the ladder the whole conspiracy paranoia flies… bewdiful)
18 Nov 2011, 10:48 am
@>^..^< katman(katman)-167:
18 Nov 2011, 10:48 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-126:
Hey bud… I was one of the posters who said patricia de lille deserves respect because dusky was making derogatory comments and jokes about her personally… that had nothing to do with her politics or the topic in question…
Not at all did I suggest that she may not be criticized or held accountable for her actions…
The problem is that too many people can’t separate the two… and in trying to make a ‘political’ or argumentative point they fall into the trap of passing personal insults…
@David(David)-129:
hey bud… you may have made that suggestion yesterday… I have also made it several times in the passed…
18 Nov 2011, 10:49 am
@Helen(Helen)-171:
Really, what has he done today.
I thought he humbled himself well over that disgrace in the Cooks a week ago.
This is clearly breaking news you have here, give it up, we are all hungry for the gossip
18 Nov 2011, 10:50 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-178:
Interesting. So who has this voting power you refer to? The clubs?
And if so, how come the Bulls were able to rise above these petty politics?
I’m trying to get to the root of what differentiates the WP situation from that of more successful admin setups.
18 Nov 2011, 10:50 am
@grant10(grant10)-146:
of course you would you spineless flip-flopper.
you have all the loyalty of a neutered ginger alley-cat.
18 Nov 2011, 10:51 am
@Gunther(gunther)-184:
Hehe.
18 Nov 2011, 10:53 am
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-183:
The Bulls have Barend – really as simple as that.
Speaking to some folks that has been around for a while, the last leader like that WP had was Jan Pickard – guess during which time in WP Rugby history was he in charge?
18 Nov 2011, 10:53 am
@Gunther(gunther)-184:
BWHAHAHJA…….. Gunth, you dog, you!
18 Nov 2011, 10:54 am
@grant10(grant10)-165:
That is how we feel about you, but how can we miss you if you won’t go away?
18 Nov 2011, 10:54 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-130:
excellent enlightening and thought-provoking post pissant…
18 Nov 2011, 10:56 am
@poppa69(poppa69)-166: LOL
Touche.
18 Nov 2011, 10:57 am
@>^..^< katman(katman)-167: fark….
So its Kenyan 7 s for me now…
18 Nov 2011, 10:59 am
@ufo(ufo)-181: yes you were, and i agree on the insults thing, however some took it further than that, which isn’t a huge issue for me, my reference to Patricia was an attempt to say that all parties in this hace an equal stake in their viewpoint being seen as the “high road” so to speak, and that until all the facts are out, we simply cannot judge.
18 Nov 2011, 11:01 am
@Gunther(gunther)-184: pilates drama pink picanto queen……dont start
18 Nov 2011, 11:01 am
@My nr1 nr2 too(trupisero)-175:
No little chop…WP are protecting their asset…and as alluded to earlier, they own the rights to the hosting of major rugby-related events in the city, which was brokered by all parties concerned, including the City. Therefore the City, in all its short-sightedness has no leg to stand on, especially (as I suspect) they agreed to host the Sarries game without consulting the rightful hosts (WP) before hand. Kinda smacks of arrogance don’t you think?
Now please post something meaningful instead of the little temper tantrums of earlier…we grown ups may actually take you more seriously.
18 Nov 2011, 11:02 am
I see on an aside, and following on with the whole Mallet/AC thing, i see that News 24 is leading with the headline:
“Manuel: I don’t want to be president”
“Johannesburg – Minister in the Presidency and former Minister of Finance Trevor Manuel says being president of SA is not something he will consider”
Looking around nervously….
Does that mean that Maria will be the next minister of sport?
I’d better open an ABSA account.
18 Nov 2011, 11:02 am
@Gunther(gunther)-184: I reckon Grant is going to start a whole new movement to rival the Cape Spanish. A rogue band of passionate, aggressive, confrontational Namibia supporters.
The Western Welwitschias.
I wonder if they too will polarise opinion to the same extent.
18 Nov 2011, 11:02 am
Proteas attack looking limper than Friday night at Granties.
18 Nov 2011, 11:02 am
It’s funny how no-one wants to play an exhibition match in NZ…
I wonder how the kiwis feel about this slap in the face, being universal bestest ever world cup winning team of all time and place and all
18 Nov 2011, 11:03 am
bloody hangover from hell
red wine is a bas tard
18 Nov 2011, 11:06 am
@grant10(grant10)-193:
Just going through my Xmas list…. when are you moving to Luderitz?
18 Nov 2011, 11:07 am
@grant10(grant10)-155: Yip great pity that Sarries has pulled out. Thought they would though with WP getting involved where that game should be played.
Would have been great especially in the holiday season. Such a great stadium CT Stadium. Going to waste similar to Moses Mabhida just standing empty. Though we have Virgin Active Classic Gym there with shops around the stadium. Also the vernacular lift that you can take a ride over the top brings in some cash. Beautiful stadium I wish Sharks would move over the road to MB. Doubt it will happen though. I love KP Stadium but it is old and dated now.
18 Nov 2011, 11:07 am
@grant10(grant10)-199:
That’ll teach you to not take a papsak to a tik party…
18 Nov 2011, 11:09 am
@grant10(grant10)-199: hehehe. Feel the same this morning. We had visitors over last night. Hectic……….hehe.
18 Nov 2011, 11:09 am
@Helen(Helen)-200: You will be devasted when I am gone….
No one else to hear the honest and frank truth from….although Skop will keep you informed
18 Nov 2011, 11:10 am
Oh dear balls – I cannot believe what I am reading – Tobie Titus from WP Rugby claims SA Rugby is being unfair only allocating Argentina test to WP – this line, in wake of the Sarries debacle is especially amusing.
Titus: “What about the people in Cape Town and the Western Cape? We have the best attendances at our matches. It’s not just about Western Province, but all the people of the Western Cape.”
18 Nov 2011, 11:11 am
@Helen(Helen)-198:
Aside from the obvious logistic’s issue of shipping team fans into NZ, never mind the cost, why would anyone in NZ pay good money to watch a dull version of a sport we excell at.
A bit like holding a arty film festival in Los Angeles and wondering why it is only running in 2 cinemas
18 Nov 2011, 11:12 am
@Puma(Puma)-201: Yip
I was looking forward to taking the family and mates to the game….would have been an evening kick off and really would have been a brilliant evening…
WP are absolute morons……
I love the team
hate the administartion
amateurs running a big pro outfit….recipe for disaster
18 Nov 2011, 11:13 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-205: Unbelievable. You can’t script cringe comedy like that.
18 Nov 2011, 11:13 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-205: Titus is a rather silly man
18 Nov 2011, 11:15 am
@Brads(Brads)-206: shhh you’ll poke holes in Helens latest “theory” shes lost her voice after claiming NZ would choke at this world cup in EVERY post before the WC, let her have her little moment of “feeling like an adult”..
I mean, the fact the ABs could fill the San Siro while the bokkes couldnt really does hurt these Saffas..
they think they (SA) are the best, when you and I both know they arent…
18 Nov 2011, 11:15 am
@>^..^< katman(katman)-196:
Indeed.
Something tells me Granties band of Merry Men will make fantastic brand ambassadors for Bacardi Breezers.
18 Nov 2011, 11:16 am
@Helen(Helen)-198: Doubt it will ever happen Helen. Far to long the travel from Europe and the time zone.
South Africa is perfectly situated for Europe and Britain. Only a 11 hour flight, with a hour behind Britain and two hours behind Europe, with the best weather in the world to boot.
Huge pity the deal with Sarries fell through to play that game at CT Stadium. Holiday season coming up too. Would have attracted many to that game had it been at CT Stadium.
18 Nov 2011, 11:16 am
Hey Keo, komaan man….
plueeeeezzzzeeeee take Butch off here! Asseblief!
Enough is enough man!
the guy is getting greyer and greyer since the first day of the pic … or is it just my imagination?
18 Nov 2011, 11:16 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-192:
yeah… as i said yesterday… seems to me that both parties are posturing from their own very narrow perspectives… neither is thinking about let alone seeing the bigger picture…
the city seems to be wanting to force wp to commit to the new stadium without any real concern for the welfare of wp rugby….
and wp rugby seems to be trying to force the city to accepting a ridiculously bargain-basement deal…
both sides need to grow up and show some maturity and statesmanship…
must say i’m getting mightily pissed off with both parties…
it is absolutely inevitable that a move will happen… so just accept that and negotiate a deal that in mutually beneficial….
18 Nov 2011, 11:18 am
@Gunther(gunther)-141:
I think SAIL are only involved with the Stormers franchise and don’t have any legal rights over the WPRFU, other than strong arm threats.
18 Nov 2011, 11:18 am
@Staal(Staal)-213: not your imagination
it is your kak computer
18 Nov 2011, 11:19 am
@ufo(ufo)-214:
Perhaps if the role players had been less arrogant in the fiorst instance and consulted stakeholders on the stadiums BEFORE they built them.
We might not be in this position.
18 Nov 2011, 11:19 am
@grant10(grant10)-207: Would have been great for sure.
18 Nov 2011, 11:19 am
@Gunther(gunther)-211: I am too hung over to fight with you today
18 Nov 2011, 11:21 am
@grant10(grant10)-216: must say i am struggling with windows 3.1 on this 286…..
18 Nov 2011, 11:21 am
@Gunther(gunther)-217:
a humble Saffa, bwahahahahaha thats your funniest post ever..
18 Nov 2011, 11:21 am
Farkin wonderful WPRU! Typical South African rugby administrators – thinking of themselves, their pockets and their egos and being lekker harkoppig!
Let this farkin game be played at Green Point and once you have BUILT the bridge, then the NEXT fixture could be accomodated at Newlands. As the success and popularity of holding these games in CT grows with local and overseas fans, there would be MORE fixtures for Newlands.
Now you killed the whole momentum and excitement for the plan in its infancy.
Awesome – well done poephols!
18 Nov 2011, 11:21 am
very few teams Piss me off as much as the proteas….
Do Namibia have a cricket team Gunther?
18 Nov 2011, 11:22 am
@grant10(grant10)-209: I said it the other day. Tobie Titus has always been an honorary executive member of the organisations he’s been part of. This oges to show that he is more of a ja broer to the people who really make decisions at WP Rugby. All in all, a drunken mouse who’s only in it for the cheese.
18 Nov 2011, 11:22 am
@Staal(Staal)-213: Nee wat ek stem saam met jou. En daai glimlag word ook bietjie meer weird elke keer – wil hy my soen of slaan?
18 Nov 2011, 11:23 am
@grant10(grant10)-219: Hair of the dog mate. It;s the only cure,
I propose a boozy lunch at Forries followed by a vigorous gym session to sweat it out.
18 Nov 2011, 11:23 am
Newlands has 300 suites. CTS has 100.
I can guaran-damn-tee you that the sticking point is WPRU and the City arguing about who will pay for the addition of another 200 suites in the stadium.
18 Nov 2011, 11:23 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-205:
how to slap in the face and pissoff the argies… !!
“we want another team to play at newlands…!!”
way to go toby jug…!!
18 Nov 2011, 11:24 am
@Staal(Staal)-220: Try windows 95! It rocks bru!
18 Nov 2011, 11:26 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-226: got to pick someone up in Paarl……then off to gym….that treadmill and sauna will either heal…..or kill me…
18 Nov 2011, 11:27 am
@David(David)-215:
wrong
western province pty ltd is 25% owned by the marc group.
the owners of SAIL.
Think again
18 Nov 2011, 11:28 am
@Frik(frikodel)-227: Vince Mc Mahon?
I think you should go to Wale street and lay the smack down.
18 Nov 2011, 11:29 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-229: hehehehe….. nooit man, my harddrive is only 10 gig and i can’t get 95 on it with all my music that i’ve downloaded…
and then their also my vid clips of Snorre’s coaching tips……
eish – daarsie plek vir 95 nie.
18 Nov 2011, 11:30 am
@grant10(grant10)-223:
yes.
it’s kak,
know your limits and stick to spritzers next time.
18 Nov 2011, 11:31 am
@grant10(grant10)-230: OK. You do the gym part then and I’ll do the Forries part OK?
PS wear a towel in the sauna this time. We don’t want another “Die Son” incident….
18 Nov 2011, 11:31 am
@Gunther(gunther)-217:
absolutely gunther…
but we can’t expect foresight like that in south africa, can we…?
18 Nov 2011, 11:32 am
94.7 sunday… who’s doing it?
18 Nov 2011, 11:33 am
@Staal(Staal)-233:
jislaaik.
I didn’t know Kurt Darren had so much material.
18 Nov 2011, 11:33 am
@poppa69(poppa69)-221:
speaking of humility…
18 Nov 2011, 11:34 am
@Gunther(gunther)-238: who he?
18 Nov 2011, 11:34 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-235: LOL
I see a peter davies or a Roebuck I farken run my man
18 Nov 2011, 11:35 am
@Staal(Staal)-233: Jislaaik Bru, het jy daai internet ding ook?
Dis piele. My swarrie het gese jy kan kaal fotos van vrouens ook download. Is dit waar?
Ek moet vir my daai modern-ding kry.
My ou scope mags is baie ge-fade.
18 Nov 2011, 11:36 am
@ufo(ufo)-239: always humble here, though it is getting harder to be so, but it is only day 26, so cant make any promises
18 Nov 2011, 11:36 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-235:
a gym sauna?
surely a cesspit of vice and iniquity?
sounds like a veruca waitng to happen.
18 Nov 2011, 11:36 am
@grant10(grant10)-241: thing is, you never see them comming
18 Nov 2011, 11:37 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-242: did you also buy the scope for the great articles like i did?
18 Nov 2011, 11:39 am
gents….keep well…have a lekker weekend…..
outta here
18 Nov 2011, 11:40 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-195: Yeah, saw it as well.
Which means there’s probably some serious talk within of him being a compromise candidate.
Not a fan of Manuel personally, a typical politician who chooses to lay low when he should speak up.
It might see them win back the Western Cape though.
The Cape Flats Obama, my people might fall for it.
18 Nov 2011, 11:41 am
@Staal(Staal)-246: Totally.
There was some great car reviews too!
Pictures weren’t so great though. Some naked chick was standing in the way!
18 Nov 2011, 11:44 am
@Gunther(gunther)-244: Not to mention all the g ay s ex that goes on……
18 Nov 2011, 11:44 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-174: at no point did anyone yesterday suggest that de lille is the a “paragon of truth” and that everything she is saying re negotiations with sarries & wp is BEYOND reproach, nobody, so where did you glean that idea from?
dusky was asked to refrain from INSULTING her as person.
your “kill the boer, kill the farmer” comment was also pandering to the gallery in an attempt to impugn.
18 Nov 2011, 11:46 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-205: and they are in the same offices and still he says he doesn’t understand it..
why doesn’t get up, walk over and have a chat?
18 Nov 2011, 11:46 am
@Staal(Staal)-252:
Haha.
18 Nov 2011, 11:47 am
@Staal(Staal)-252: about the same offices…
18 Nov 2011, 11:49 am
@Taahirah(Taahirah)-248: Yes, he’s probably the best candidate the ANC could field IMO.
18 Nov 2011, 11:52 am
@Gunther(gunther)-231:
Wasn’t WP pty the company formed to run the elite arm (the stormers and professional element) and was closed down recently?
18 Nov 2011, 11:53 am
@David(David)-256: sorry mate…
you can’t use Wp & elite in the same sentence..
18 Nov 2011, 11:54 am
@David(David)-256:
Sorry, not closed down. I was confusing that with SARU.
18 Nov 2011, 12:00 pm
@David(David)-256:
according to them they are still up and running
18 Nov 2011, 12:04 pm
@Staal(Staal)-257:
eina
18 Nov 2011, 12:28 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-259:
Check out their web site. They’re not the same as WPRFU but manage the professional side, including stadium and management. With SAILs involvement you’d think there’d be a conflict of interest in promoting the Sarries match at GPS.
BTW, Titus isn’t involved with the Pty, by the looks of it.
18 Nov 2011, 12:46 pm
What a bunch of tossers! This will make Cape Town & WP look like a real bunch of idiots. A great fixture taken away because of egos! We all know the form regarding who runs provincial rugby. I’m sure Saries management considered that before they approached anyone regarding the game. I doubt there will be anything else coming our way in the future – they have stuffed up big time with this one.
18 Nov 2011, 12:48 pm
@Grizz(Grizz)-262: i blame the ANC
18 Nov 2011, 12:56 pm
@David(David)-261:
That’s my point.
He must be on some level …sail only own a percentage of the pty ltd.
who do you think owns the rest?
you are hard work today.
keep up the google though.
18 Nov 2011, 13:09 pm
So Titus moans they only get 1 test next year.
What did he expect? They cant even host a club game
18 Nov 2011, 13:16 pm
Sorry my WP supporting friends, now you know why your trophy cabinet has been empty for a decade. With bafoons like this no one can be successful. WP PTY LTD is a good example of how not to run a business. See an opertunity to generate exposure and revenue, then look for every opertunity in the book to nail yourself. Arrogant ********!
18 Nov 2011, 13:22 pm
@David(David)-261: Tobie Titus is the President of the WPRFU, same position that Jan Pickard, Ronnie Masson and Koos Basson fulfilled. Theuns Roodman is the CEO. This arm of WP Rugby runs the amateur side of things like coaching clinic’s, clubs and schools – high and primary.
Rob Wagner is the CEO of WP (Pty). the professional arm of WP Rugby. This arm is responsible for player contracts i.e. Stormers and WP as well as looks after the day-to-day running of the stadium including match day.
WPRFU was the host of the game therefore the decisions based around the game need to be made by the amateur arm.
18 Nov 2011, 13:57 pm
@Jeraldjay(Jeraldjay)-267:
Thanks. I’m aware of all that, but why is Titus getting all the flack when it should be Wagner. He runs the company that’s responsible for the stadium and getting events there. Considering that he’s 25% owned by a sister company of Sarries, he should have been the one negotiating the deal, not the WPRFU. This looks more like a fight between Titus and Wagner. Titus only stepped in once the deal was done and WP Rugby Pty was either sidelined or ignored. All the press mentions WPRFU not getting involved, but in reality the story should focus on what WP Rugby did or didn’t do.
18 Nov 2011, 14:12 pm
@David(David)-268:
at last you get it you seem to have gone round fill circlle
now read my original post on the subject again.
18 Nov 2011, 14:17 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-269:
Which one is that?
18 Nov 2011, 14:27 pm
@David(David)-268:
Yes this does baffle me why the Amateur arm is involved in decisions regarding the stadium and a game been played there. Surely this is Rob Wags and the professional arms baby.
18 Nov 2011, 14:31 pm
I said
The more than meets the eye is likely to be a power struggle WITHIN the union.
SAIL flexing their muscles.
Get ready for a rumble in the mahogany jungle.
Tobie Titus is ready for the rough stuff he’s already taken his teef out.
and you said
I think SAIL are only involved with the Stormers franchise and don’t have any legal rights over the WPRFU, other than strong arm threat.
If SAIL own 25% of the pty tld then I would bet the union owns the rest.
looks like a boerdroom struggle to me.
Now stop wasting my time.
18 Nov 2011, 14:33 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-269:
I see. So your comment that this is a fight within the union was the definitive explanation. I don’t remember ever engaging with you or disputing it, so I don’t see the reason for your facetious smugness.
As it is, a fight within the union observation, goes no way to identifying what the fight is, relative to the stadium saga. Or are you implying that SAIL told Wagner to get lost over this matter?
Vague generalisations and innuendos are not exactly astute insight.
18 Nov 2011, 14:36 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-272:
You’re wasting your own time. There’s was no need to respond to my reply to jeraldjay. Aren’t you busy?
18 Nov 2011, 14:39 pm
@David(David)-273:
sorry but you replied to my comment by talking kuk about ‘the stormers franchise”
I then set you right.
And you have spent the rest of your time arguing with me.
The fight in the union is over moving the stadium, surely that’s obvious.
SAIL would like to move province would not.
Indeed SAIL by moving the game back to London have told Wagner to get lost.
Now stop rolling your eyes like a 5 year old girl.
18 Nov 2011, 14:48 pm
Uncle Johan is going to skop gat very soon. See this as a calm before the storm.
Legal bills alone will bankrupt WP Rugby.
18 Nov 2011, 14:53 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-275:
Now, why would SAIL want WP to move? Newlands belongs to the WPRFU not WP Rugby, and is bond free. A move to GP would mean WP Rugby loses the stadium management income, unless they take that over from the city and SAIL has already turned that down as not being viable. What’s in it for SAIL?
I’m not being argumentative, just asking whether you have some insight or are just blindly speculating.
18 Nov 2011, 14:59 pm
@David(David)-277:
Cheers David, I’ll find out this week-end what the fark is going on.
But Tobie is a representative for the Union on the WP Rugby Pty Executive so maybe he has that cap on and not that of the president.
18 Nov 2011, 15:01 pm
@David(David)-274:
You weren’t aware of that.
You thought the commercial arm looked after the stormers franchise.
And then you thought it had been wound up.
Quite frankly I suprised you can tell the difference between your @rse and your elbow.
You seem to be being deliberately argumentative.
18 Nov 2011, 15:05 pm
waka waka
18 Nov 2011, 15:17 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-279:
Rubbish. I posted that correction regarding it being closed immediately after posting it as I remembered it was SARU that closed its’ commercial arm. And the commercial arm does look after the professional side, which includes the Stormers specifically. WPRFU runs the amateur side.
18 Nov 2011, 15:23 pm
@David(David)-281:
jeez bru
you said they ONLY looked after the stomers.
the reality is they are invloved in EVERY aspect of the business side of the union.
Please don’t pretend that you knew all that when we started talking.
Of course SAIL didn’t want to run Green Point stadium WITHOUT rugby as the enchor tenant. but with Province there it’s game on.
Geddit?
This is like arguing with somewbody with Parkinson’s
18 Nov 2011, 15:25 pm
Has anyone heard that JP du Plessis has signed for the Stormers from the Rebelsfor 2012? Apparently he’s a centre who moved to OZ to play League.
18 Nov 2011, 15:44 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-275: I never roll my eyes. Not even when I was five. And I was adoreable at five. Just a little bitchy I’m told
18 Nov 2011, 15:47 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-282: put a cork in it you cantakerous old drama queen
18 Nov 2011, 16:16 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-282:
Jeez, you must be a right pain at home,in your determination to be right and have the last word. No wonder you spend so much time here. It must be the only place where you can indulge yourself without people walking out on you.
18 Nov 2011, 16:38 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-282:
I see you’re a little confused.
215.David:
18 Nov 2011, 11:18 am @Gunther(gunther)-141:
I think SAIL are only involved with the Stormers franchise and don’t have any legal rights over the WPRFU, other than strong arm threats.
231.Gunther:
18 Nov 2011, 11:27 am
@David(David)-215:
wrong
western province pty ltd is 25% owned by the marc group.
the owners of SAIL.
Think again
256.David:
18 Nov 2011, 11:52 am @Gunther(gunther)-231:
Wasn’t WP pty the company formed to run the elite arm (the stormers and professional element) and was closed down recently?
258.David:
18 Nov 2011, 11:54 am @David(David)-256:
Sorry, not closed down. I was confusing that with SARU
BTW, Marc is just a rebrand of SAIL.
18 Nov 2011, 17:29 pm
@David(David)-268:
Wagner said NOTHING, it was Titus who opened up the fxxxup for no reason, really, how many would expect to watch rugby in early January? who can play a top pro rugby in a 35C?, it was just a hoax instigated by Griffin.
The business unit of SARFU was established by Riaan Oberholtzer in 2001 (?) to separate the commercials, contracts and revenue management aspects from SARFU’s control and it called then SARU
Later after the Van Rooyan’s term SARFU was obliterated in favour of the unified SARU
18 Nov 2011, 17:33 pm
@David(David)-283:
What’s wrong with JdJ and that wif Barcha? two centres of note!
18 Nov 2011, 17:53 pm
Nothing, but JP was apparently really hot property before he left for league in Oz. Letting Bosch, Whitehead and Sardie go, is starting to make sense. I hadn’t realised that JP had joined WP in September already, and turned out for WP under 21. Seems most WP supporters have missed the significance of his signing.
18 Nov 2011, 18:12 pm
@David(David)-290:
He was quite a superstar at school level (Paul Roos, WP Craven and SA Schools) but has not really made it in Aus – I know he left league and signed for the Rebels but not sure whether he ever played for them.
But, yes, he is still very young and has obviously huge potential.
They certainly have more than enough depth at centre with du Jongh, Brache, du Plessis, de Villiers, Fourie and even Peter Grant to call upon.
18 Nov 2011, 18:31 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-291:
You left out Grants favourite centre, Schalk Burger.
18 Nov 2011, 18:38 pm
@David(David)-292:
Yip, with Brock Harris at 10 to provide extra stability and forward momentum
18 Nov 2011, 18:48 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-293:
18 Nov 2011, 22:20 pm
@rossoneri(rossoneri)-284: Not much has changed then has it
19 Nov 2011, 07:19 am
@David(David)-286:
That’s rich indeed.
But I’m glad you’ve learnt a few things on this thread.
We’ll continue your education next week.
19 Nov 2011, 07:34 am
Unfortunately Gunts, David is yards ahead of you in the intelligence department.
You’re just going to frustrate yourself again..
19 Nov 2011, 07:35 am
@David(David)-286:
Classic.
19 Nov 2011, 08:24 am
@Gunther(gunther)-296: wind your neck in you Pilates drama queen
Go wash the Picanto….tosser
20 Nov 2011, 08:29 am
Don’t worry Gunts, you’ve out-Gwanted Gwanty10 and now the little lad is so pissed he can’t even shave for his mankini.
20 Nov 2011, 09:16 am
@husky(husky)-300:
still got that lisp and speech defect Husky?
Speech therapist not helping?
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