Lions pivot training with Stormers
22 Nov 2011
Burton Francis ran with the Stormers when the Cape franchise began their pre-season training schedule on Monday.
Francis, who recently parted ways with the Lions, was in Cape Town on Monday running through drills with the Stormers. Officially, the Stormers have contracted only three new players in Joe Pietersen (Bayonne), Deon Carstens (Saracens) and Gerhard van den Heever (Bulls), but Francis could potentially provide further cover for the Stormers in the problematic flyhalf position.
The Boland trio of Bolla Conradie, Elgar Watts and Clemen Lewis also trained with the team on Monday. Having a player of Conradie’s experience in the greater training group will be a boon for the Stormers, and no doubt Watts’s performance in Boland’s title-clinching First Division campaign may have given head coach Allister Coetzee food for thought.
The Stormers recently lost promising flyhalf Lionel Cronje to the Bulls, and aside from Peter Grant, are lacking in experienced No 10s. Kurt Coleman has been exposed to Super Rugby while Demetri Catrakilis and Gary van Aswegen have played Currie Cup rugby, but none of the three, nor Watts for that matter, are established at Super Rugby level.
774 Comments
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23 Nov 2011, 11:59 am
@mpundulu(mpundulu)-498:
bathathe,,,Mnumzane kade ngifunda ngizithulele lana.Bayabila ngaphakathi ngoba uyayazi lento oyishoyo futhi uyifundile iBill..Bona balalela abangani babo egymini,bazwe nge-eNews bese beyokoza amasimba. Ubabuyisela esikoleni.
23 Nov 2011, 12:00 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-497:
More to the point.
why are we paying for it?
are you happy that tens of millions of rand are being spent on his personal residence whilst you have relatives that live in townships?
It’s the Usual Suspects claiming that we “don’t understand the dynamic”.
The joke is on you.
23 Nov 2011, 12:03 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-497: A state must have the ability to determine which information if placed in the public domain will be detrimental to the countries efforts to effectively govern. The media in SA is a law unto itself and rarely substantiates it’s stories and seems to continually target a specific group unrelenting, and there’s little investigated of the other groupings.
23 Nov 2011, 12:04 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-500: That’s the point. There is a provision for any minister to apply to have the authority to classify documents. Then for example, they can classify documents on a municipal level, if it shows that local tenders were awarded to a relative of the minister.
Does that sound familar? It should. It happens all the time.
23 Nov 2011, 12:04 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-496:
seriusly? Municipal record? When have they ever been regarded as matter of national security? And as mentioned earlier “maladministration,misuse of state resources in government/police etc” is not included in Bill.In fact it states they must be procesuted under the protracted legislature.
23 Nov 2011, 12:08 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-499: What are you going to do about it? You are very effective at complaining but excessively short on solutions.
23 Nov 2011, 12:08 pm
Or how about this one? A defence force contract is awarded for catering at it’s bases nation-wide. The owner of the catering company is a connected person (i.e.) relative of a senior defense official and quoted 3 x the price of the next best bidder. They classify all documents under the national security provision. So no one ever gets to hear about it. Sop the corruption is never uncovered in the first place.
Capice?
23 Nov 2011, 12:10 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-501: Lol, ndiyaba tsweba nje kancinci.
23 Nov 2011, 12:12 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-502: Are you telling transie, to get that R10 million from zuma and build a few houses for his kith and kin?
23 Nov 2011, 12:12 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-497:
The media will always be lobbying a certain agenda. That is their right. Freedom of speech and all.
Look at the Oreilly factor on Fox News Channel, he pushes a conservative GOP agenda.
Jon Steward on the Daily Show pushes something a bit more liberal/Democrat, although he really just parodies everyone. But you get the idea.
As for the leaking of the Inkandla residences layout, that is unfortunate, but to me that just means someone in his inner circle is not to be trusted and if the media can get hold of that info, you can be damn sure someone with darker ideas could get hold of it as well.
If the media act unlawfully according to law, ie defamation, illegal actions(News of the World etc) then they must be held responsible in front of a judge and jury.
No good can come of muzzling the media. None.
23 Nov 2011, 12:12 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-502:
more to what point exactky? Why is your perspective appropriated to be the acceptable one. The president’s safety as well that of his family must not be used as a tool to drive a specific agenda at any point whatever it is.
And as mentioned by office of the presidency the household itself is being funded by the president privately. The Auxillary services (conjuction with household) such as the police station,emergency clinics,the tarring of the roads leading to and from household and around Nkandla area are funded by government (Public works etc) and are also accessible to the public and also led to improved amenities in the area-shopping mall also been built in area,increased transport efficiency etc
23 Nov 2011, 12:14 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-499: dude, FECK OFF!!!!!
i asked you to quantify something, i’m not an apologist for anything…
the namecalling in this place is just ridiculous
hehehe
23 Nov 2011, 12:16 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-501:
23 Nov 2011, 12:16 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-507: Why would such a document be classified? Really, a catering contract, seriously! A toasted bacon, egg, and cheese sandwich is a state secret!?
In lieu of more national security interest documents would you prefer that they are tabled publicly and we the citizens decide which documents ought to be classified?
23 Nov 2011, 12:21 pm
@mpundulu(mpundulu)-498: Damn straight, I’m frustrated with you. But the thing is, I know exactly why.
Corruption apologists like you feel vindicated by the fact that it is a predominately white, middle class and media who are shining a spotlight on the pigs at the trough. As though that immediately discredits the view. You’re happier with a bunch of black politicians bleeding the country dry while they can than with a bunch of white editors pointing out the uncomfortable truth. You perceive it as a racial slight that black struggle veterans are accused of pilfering and pocketing, rightfully or not. And so you return the racial slight by implying that the criticism of them MUST be racially motivated.
You, semi-sarcastically, say that I’d prefer a regime change to simply naming and shaming them. But the mind-blowing part here – and the source of my frustration with blind loyalists like you – is that you DON’T seem to want to replace a mob of dishonest rulers with a set of honest administrators.
And they say that WE were brainwashed by the Nats…
23 Nov 2011, 12:23 pm
@mpundulu(mpundulu)-506:
You don’t seem to have a PROBLEM with it at all.
Which is strange.
Unless you snout is in the trough too.
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-511:
do you think the cost is reasonable when the president as three other official residences to use?
exactly what aspects are being funded by the man himself on his presidential salary?
@Transformation(Transformation)-512:
its exactly what you are.
I asked whether the level in corruption in this country was acceptable (and it gets worse every year) and you start asking about Britain?
Talk about moving the goaplosts.
If it wakls like a pig and talks like a pig…..
Anyway they say every nation gets the goverment it deserves.
Judging by you guys this might just be true.
23 Nov 2011, 12:23 pm
@mpundulu(mpundulu)-514: Why indeed? You are proving the very point I’m trying to make. The minister has the authority to classify the documents. He may give some lame excuse like “we need to protect the source of our food because the stability of our country could be seriously undermined if some malintentioned country gets hold of that info and poisons the supply, thereby rendering our armed forces significantly weakened as a result”
Sound ridiculous?? Wait for it.
23 Nov 2011, 12:25 pm
Soon Gunther will tell us that the protection of the president is a waste of state funds, and that funding ought to be earmarked to the police to hire 10 more guys for the streets. Better he may even inform us that public officials ought not to have any state funded cars, zuma’s cavalcade is excessive and a mountain bike is more appropriate. Additionally, there’s no requirement for air force one, zuma should pay for his own economy class ticket on saa on state visits.
23 Nov 2011, 12:27 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-516: There is absolutely no defending the ridiculous spend on the President’s houses as reported recently. Anyone trying to do so has long since lost whatever moral high ground he was trying to cling to. Can’t believe fairly intelligent people here think they can seriously push that point of view to other fairly intelligent people. It boggles.
23 Nov 2011, 12:28 pm
@John Galt(John Galt)-510:
Lobbying even at the expense of the very “public interest” the claim to purport? (Under guise of freedom of speech) nah mate,they regulate themselves the media-the regulatory bodies/ombudsman etc have proven ineffectual and the retraction pieces to follow etc are a joke-damage and perception already formed.(ie: Remember Montlanthe claims he had fathered a child that were untrue)
SA situation completely different to US/UK in relation to media & agenda disseminated.Same mechanisms & processes dont exist. On issues related to national security or intergral to nation building/national psyche which ever the incumbent party(Democrat/Republican) some things just arent out to be published on public domain.(Patriot Act)
Same thing applies to a large extent,only if media were to be trusted to be absolved of all the nefarious behaviour associated with power
23 Nov 2011, 12:29 pm
@mpundulu(mpundulu)-518:
Have you SEEN the size of his motorcade?
I have.
and its about three times the size of the british Prime Ministers.
Mind you they always say that the size of the President’s security detail is inversely proportional to the importance of that nation.
Please man, even junior ministers don’t fly lala class.
I see the fish eagle is being mothballed and we are buying a new bigger amajetplane.
apparently the fish eagle smells of Thabo’s pipe and doesn’t have enough bedrooms for all the wives and girlfriends.
The press facility has been made smaller though since they won’t have anything to write about anyway.
23 Nov 2011, 12:31 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-516:
“Anyway they say every nation gets the goverment it deserves.
Judging by you guys this might just be true.”
Hahahahahahaha hurts so deep.
23 Nov 2011, 12:31 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-516: how is that being an spologist? i wanted a yardstick of how far down the tubes we are. all you had to do was quote that CPI rating and i would’ve been answered, but no, you had to indulge your own pigheaded proclivities and make assumptions about me.
who is the @ss now?
23 Nov 2011, 12:32 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-515: What gives you the impression that I’m a corruption apologist? I’ve never stated that i support the nefarious activities of any government official. I have though stated that corruption does go hand in hand with governance.
Your fundamental issue with me is that I am able to explain my position and it is in direct opposition to yours, and for you to be opposed and informed that your position is of little base irks you tremendously as you believe you have the exclusive rights to morality and decency and my lot don’t. Maybe the nats did train you well.
23 Nov 2011, 12:32 pm
@mpundulu(mpundulu)-514: That’s the point, comrade. How can you still miss it?
They can classify ANY OLD THING. What makes you believe it will only be state secrets? They can lock away any piece of incriminating documentation, and believe me, they will.
What they don’t take into account is the fact that we live in superconnected times. Wikileaks proved this, and it’s going to get exponentially more difficult to hide the truth.
You can blow out a candle
But you can’t blow out a fire
Once the flames begin to catch
The wind will blow it higher…
(how sadly ironic that these lines were written about Steve Biko)
23 Nov 2011, 12:33 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-516: you’re making a LOT of assumption charlie, show me where on this thread i said i endorse this Bill?
23 Nov 2011, 12:34 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-516: Explain to me how I don’t have a problem with it? Oh, you’d like me to join the complaining party and once I’ve uttered all my grievances I’d have changed the country! Lol
23 Nov 2011, 12:36 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-519:
The idiots probably think the Zimbabwean Secret Service are trying to take him out. Meanwhile their bright yellow Toyota Cressida has broken down on the Beight bridge and they have made a spaza shop out of the shell.
It’s always the same though isn’t it.
“You people” are allowed to criticise any aspect of the ANC or igoverment.
WE don’t understand the dynamic.
Just you wait until the Media Tribunal comes into place.
Personally I look forward to the start of the book burning.
Harry Potter will be the first to feel the flames of the revolution.
23 Nov 2011, 12:36 pm
@mpundulu(mpundulu)-524: When you veer off into character judgements and cereal box psycho analysis, you really start to talk big heaps of kak. Stick to the Party Line Rhetoric. At least that’s been scripted for you.
23 Nov 2011, 12:38 pm
the thing is… it will be at the discretion of each departmental head to classify what they believe should be classified or what they want to classify… there will be no way for any individual or organization to validate whether the classification is really in the national or the individuals or the peoples interest…
so obviously they will classify anything and everything that may show them up in a bad light…
and it’s not just corruption that will be swept under the carpet… but service delivery, competence and meeting the expectations of the people will be impossible to track too…
we will only hear about the good things… (which is important too as their are good things happening that the media of chooses to ignore in favor of sensationalizing the negative…) but it is vital to the country and the people that the bad things are also reported, reviewed and improved…
but any minister who feels slightly threatened because he or she knows they have not delivered or met expectations… will simply declare all the relevant information classified and not only will the media not be able to report and question it… but the people who are waiting expectantly and patiently… will have no way of tracking service implementation… except knowing it hasn’t been delivered to them yet…
so… far from simply muzzling the media… the bill will muzzle the voice of the people…
the only option available to the people to will be to march behind juju… or to rise like our arabian brothers…
if anyone honestly believes that this is the best way forward for the country… well… i find it hard to believe how any rational person could think so…
23 Nov 2011, 12:38 pm
@mpundulu(mpundulu)-524: And you are so a corruption apologist. You are a poster child for corruption apology.
“Get your hands off my leaders! All leaders steal, and at least mine are black!”
23 Nov 2011, 12:41 pm
@mpundulu(mpundulu)-527:
well when it was mentioned, you started talking about all the other countries which were (actually weren’t) worse.
deflection.
lets not upset the money tree hey
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-522:
you don’t understand the dynamic.
that’s all.
@Transformation(Transformation)-523:
Surely it matters not when a fifth of the money the govt spends is WASTED.
what about the uk?
apologist.
23 Nov 2011, 12:43 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-525: So you’re saying that the sole purpose of this bill, which was discussed first by the cabinet, the anc in all it’s committees and bodies was with the express intent to cover up everyone’s corrupt activities? Allowing for new corruption aspirant members to know that they are safe from any light being shone on their deceit? In most instances, corruption occurs through the tender processes, a public process so all and sundry are aware of it, and under your theory you believe that all government tenders after being awarded will simply be classified! That wouldn’t be terribly smart, as it’d establish a transparent trend for all to see.
23 Nov 2011, 12:49 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-531: I have no words.
23 Nov 2011, 12:50 pm
“apologist” now has been elevated up to the status of “rhodesia” in the insult stakes
23 Nov 2011, 12:52 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-532: Ha! Which countries did I say were worse? Did I give any such assessment, did I provide a comparison or merely stated facts in that country?
23 Nov 2011, 12:54 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-515:
Spot-on in every respect!
23 Nov 2011, 12:57 pm
@mpundulu(mpundulu)-470: Hitler and Verwoerd also operated under the ‘auspices’ of ‘good intentions’ so too did Uncle Bob Mugabe, Idi Amin, Pol Pot, Qaddafi and Ayatollah Khumeini, some were even at Nelson Mandela’s inauguration as the new president and champion of a free democracy under these self same ‘Auspices’ of ‘Good Intentions’ as dignitaries and ‘friends’ of the ANC, so who you trying to kid that we simply handing ALL the power to a power base which has less accountability in terms of scrutiny once the muzzle of information has been firmly wrapped over the freedom of speech voice..??
And its you that were first to shout for freedom from persecuting policies when boot was on other foot now transferring the onus of accountability away from those that make and determine policy..
23 Nov 2011, 12:58 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-535: lol. It’s incredible what people imagine and after debating it with themselves convert into some form of fact.
23 Nov 2011, 12:58 pm
534 – Good. That’s an improvement.
23 Nov 2011, 13:00 pm
On a lighter note,just got email about Butch-My Life autograph signing venues….hehehe keo campaign continues…book going to be a dud.
23 Nov 2011, 13:03 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-535: @mpundulu(mpundulu)-539:
Cha,ngoba aniyazi indawo yenu zilima! lol
Futhi ninamanga, lento eniyishoyo ngisho niyifundile aniyazi….
23 Nov 2011, 13:04 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-541:
mshini…
do you know who actually wrote the book…?
i’ve asked several times on keo but never got an answer…
was it keohane…?
23 Nov 2011, 13:04 pm
@ashampoopaloo(joel1yahoo)-538: Are suggesting that the government should not have the right to classify state sensitive documents? What process would provide you with comfort in lieu of SA’s national interests being kept safe? Maybe a referendum process whenever a minister wants to classify a document, or a blind ballot, or a qualified franchise of only those who have university degrees and can be trusted to keep their discretion. Whether you trust a government or not, it must have the right to the protection of national interests. Maybe someday, a party you trust becomes the head of government, would they also be precluded from classifying state secrets?
23 Nov 2011, 13:05 pm
Well.
Now that my blood is up I’m going to send a strongly worded letter of disapproval to Jacob.
I can only hope he has time between showers and choosing the interiors for his new plane to read it.
23 Nov 2011, 13:07 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-542: Hehehehehe
23 Nov 2011, 13:08 pm
Soon as you have government – Any Government – protecting its transparency and hiding behind legal policy enshrined into law – you have the beginnings of power abuse and dictatorship – or at best Autocratic power manipulative policy and governance ala the exact same ideologically enshrined policies as the Nats abused to hold onto their own power hold and power control over legislation and government..
Hence the new ANC has become the alter ego of the previous regime.. just a different face to the identical same set of principles and dictatorial style politics..
23 Nov 2011, 13:10 pm
@mpundulu(mpundulu)-539: and there’s no need to provide any proof that one is an “apologist” if it is assumed by the moral paragons on this site, you’re IT
23 Nov 2011, 13:10 pm
@mpundulu(mpundulu)-544:
could you or anyone else please explain to me just exactly from whom are we supposed to be protecting our national interests…?
who is it that we find so threatening…? which country or group’s avowed policy is to do harm to south africa…?
in the ‘old days’ it use to be die swart gevaar and the communists…
but just whom is it now that we need to hide all our secrets…?
23 Nov 2011, 13:11 pm
@mpundulu(mpundulu)-544: Who will have the veto or the discretionary power whether to disclose or keep secret ANY state atrocity or manipulative fraudulence under this new Bill.. Who exactly ?? Name the all powerful voice of morality and reason..
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