Lions pivot training with Stormers
22 Nov 2011
Burton Francis ran with the Stormers when the Cape franchise began their pre-season training schedule on Monday.
Francis, who recently parted ways with the Lions, was in Cape Town on Monday running through drills with the Stormers. Officially, the Stormers have contracted only three new players in Joe Pietersen (Bayonne), Deon Carstens (Saracens) and Gerhard van den Heever (Bulls), but Francis could potentially provide further cover for the Stormers in the problematic flyhalf position.
The Boland trio of Bolla Conradie, Elgar Watts and Clemen Lewis also trained with the team on Monday. Having a player of Conradie’s experience in the greater training group will be a boon for the Stormers, and no doubt Watts’s performance in Boland’s title-clinching First Division campaign may have given head coach Allister Coetzee food for thought.
The Stormers recently lost promising flyhalf Lionel Cronje to the Bulls, and aside from Peter Grant, are lacking in experienced No 10s. Kurt Coleman has been exposed to Super Rugby while Demetri Catrakilis and Gary van Aswegen have played Currie Cup rugby, but none of the three, nor Watts for that matter, are established at Super Rugby level.
774 Comments
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22 Nov 2011, 19:16 pm
@Dawn(Dawn)-250:
Its being coming for a while now….. Not good news
Thats the one thing I realised about democracy with the Spanish elections on Sunday. With the masses having the fortunate ability to think for themselves and the subsequent people power to vote out a government that was full of corruption and were leading the country into oblivion
Simple… you stuff up…. boom, bang, biff…. you dont rule anymore
The power of the the masses… It can be done!!
22 Nov 2011, 19:30 pm
@Dawn(Dawn)-250:
A third World Rhetorics at best
Most can’t even read properly anyway, and in any case they could have done whatever they wanted since 1994 anyway, so what’s the fuss?
“If you had no expectations whatsoever, you shouldn’t be disappointed now”
22 Nov 2011, 19:49 pm
@Bod(bod)-249: Yikes that’s scary. A new government that took out three TV stations with driving rain? Looks like our secrecy bill is small change.
22 Nov 2011, 19:59 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-253:
You gotta love this place…. I do!
Strews nyannies… the north easter kicks in over the Pyrenees, the rain and cold comes in in buckets and your primary 3 national TV stations give up the ghost “No hay sena”…. no signal.
Yet click over to the soccer and porn stations… and they are in full cry!
22 Nov 2011, 20:10 pm
You there peranently?
22 Nov 2011, 20:12 pm
Sorry permanently
22 Nov 2011, 20:29 pm
Wazzup hondo
Trust you to come up with that
22 Nov 2011, 20:40 pm
@Bod(bod)-254: Like you had any desire to watch anything other than soccer and porn.
@Dawn(Dawn)-256: Sounds like chronic depression.
22 Nov 2011, 20:57 pm
Really a bad day fo SA.
Not much hope that sanity will prevail and we can just as well accept that the bill be finally approved next year without significant, if any, changes.
The good news of the day is that Sting will be play Grand West this coming March.
“Protest is futile,
Nothing seems to get through
What’s to become of our world,
Who knows what to do
Driven to tears
Driven to tears”
22 Nov 2011, 21:16 pm
Does anyone know the facts of this ‘bill’ and what has been passed today?
Every country has state security measures in place for good reason, is (and how) is this one different?
22 Nov 2011, 21:23 pm
@Dawn(Dawn)-255:
Nope…. just on a bit of a travelling experience
Will be back in CT whenever (no plans…. no commitments. I still have my house/car/dog/cats and kids in the ‘Mead… I also miss the Portuguese Embassy too much!!
22 Nov 2011, 21:31 pm
We have to get a handle on this bill.
If it’s just state secrets, then nothing new.
If it covers corruption then cry the fecking beloved country.
22 Nov 2011, 21:32 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-259: This is just as apt. Worth a read to the end.
“In the searchlights
You could see us as you circled round
Down below us you were screaming
I could hear the sound
I could see your arms reaching up to me
Like a demon, I could feel the madness
Running through the crowd
We were freedom
From the moment that we hit the ground
And the wild man, he laid the thunder down.
Do you remember me, like I remember you
In a sea of hands you came shining through
In the mist of time I can see it now
All my life I will remember this (under a raging moon)
For this moment I was born for it (under a raging moon)
Under a raging moon, we were flying there
Under a raging moon, we saw Zion there
It ended all too soon, under a raging moon
We were out there
When they handed us the rebel’s crown
All the headlines
All they tried to do was tear us down
But the wild man, he didn’t fool around
Do you remember me, cause I remember you
Yeah you won my love, when the dream came true
When my blood ran high, I can hear it now
All my life I will remember it (under a raging moon)
For this moment I was born for it (under a raging moon)
Under a raging moon, we were flying boy
Under a raging moon, it’s worth dying for
It ended all too soon, under a raging moon
Taking me back to better times
We never read the danger signs
Why are the young, why are the young so blind?”
Roger Daltrey
22 Nov 2011, 21:36 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-258: mm….mm
The soccer is bad, but the porn even worse.
Los hombres espanol have this kinda thang going…. they love an eight on one scenario
22 Nov 2011, 21:40 pm
What are state secrets, our govt officials thieving, believe me that will become a state secret, write about it and heyfuckingpresto 25 years for you bud,write about the blue light tossers and how many body guards he had and how they abused you…..state secret and heyfuckingpresto 25 years for you bud.
This is a travesty…………..people need to look at the bigger picture and the future.
22 Nov 2011, 21:41 pm
60.mshiniwami:
22 Nov 2011, 11:26 am @Taahirah(Taahirah)-58: Yep….The Sharks procurement up to sh*t once again He has not been resigned to a new contract-out in the cold.Leaving now likely to take up an overseas contract.He had hoped to finish career with Sharks. Sharks keeping Marius Joubert…WHO IS OLDER than Adi & mediocre this past season.Adi still has plenty value especially of the bench & utility midfielder. loyal Sharks servant has Adi Jacobs for the past 8 or so years…So much for loyalty I guess.Thats why I dont blames likes of Lionel Mapoe-go to the highest bidder as unions are full of sh*t.
How do Plumtree/Straeuli substantiate keeping Joubert and letting Adi go? Plumtree has curtailed Adi’s career at the Sharks in last 2 yrs or so. Adi should have NEVER played behind Terblanche for the 13 jersey at ANY point,neither should Joubert usurped him. This is a fckin joke.
61.Tacitus:
22 Nov 2011, 11:30 am @mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-60: Strange goings on down in Durban. Really don’t understand what’s happened to their squad. If you look at the regression from the heady days of 2007 – when they lost the S14 final by 1 point – to today’s geriatric backline, it really does boggle the mind. Can anyone doubt that they will be decent but not outstanding in next year’s S15? Probably a contender for topping the SA log, but nowhere near a contender for the overall trophy. Is that satisfactory to Sharks fans?
62.mshiniwami:
22 Nov 2011, 11:37 am @Tacitus(Deucalion)-61: Its a joke Tac.A complete joke. Plumtree,Straeuli,Hugh Reece Edwards managed to tear apart what **** Muir built after taking over shambles from Putt. Whatever people may say about **** he did a great job at the Sharks. Natal cronies & vested interests-buddy buddy system. After Campo then **** leaving it been downhill since. Big pity is that there is plenty quality in Beast,Bismark,Jannie,Deysel,Alberts,Daniel,Kankoski,Lambie,Mvovo,Ndungane add youngsters: Cooper,Mthembu,Jafta,Stander,H.Williams,Jordaan,Lindeque,Gouws,Coetzee etc Enough there to have very good team to achieve great things,those Boks are all in mid 20?s and younger so have at least 3-4 seasons at peak. But front office F*CKIN IT ALL UP.
3 very good posts. We can all see it. But the Sharks management can’t.
22 Nov 2011, 21:44 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-260: @Dawn(Dawn)-262: The key here is two things:
Other countries who have a bill like this, (Canada for example) have a defense clause which can be raised by someone who is charged with posessing or publishing “secret” info, that it is “in the public interest” that the information is brought to light.
This defense clause does not apply here, so being in posession of a document that has been classified secret could get you 25 years,
Now you may ask yourself what’s the problem? The bill does refer to documents of national security after all.
Well consider the Arms deal. Under these definitions the contents and documents pertaining to all matters, contracts etc could easily be declared Top Secret and we would never know what had happened as journos who had been given the info would not be allowed to publish it. Access would simply be denied and so we would have no idea of any of the content.
Major corruption can therefore be swept under the rug.
The bill in concept is not all bad, BUT it needs the appropriate ‘watchdog” provisions in it in order to prevent it being used to cover up corrupt practices.
Under the current version of the Bill the Government would have to basically police themselves. Which is a recipe for disaster.
PS we did have a Secrecy Bill, (which was repealed by this Bill), which was in my opinion pretty adequate in adressing the state secrecy issues.
22 Nov 2011, 21:44 pm
@Bod(bod)-251: SA needs a viable *dare I say it* black opposition party.
Hell would freeze over first before some of the masses vote for the DA.
Pity, as there’s no accountability and oversight as a result… and the pigs just get fatter at the gravy trough.
Living in the UK has been a real education in seeing how a real democracy works. One party f*cks up, the other gets voted in. Simple.
22 Nov 2011, 21:45 pm
@Treehugger(Treehugger)-265: Spot on hugsy. I see you enjoyed the photo i posted
22 Nov 2011, 21:50 pm
@Treehugger(Treehugger)-265: PS I sent you a message on FB. Check it out
22 Nov 2011, 21:54 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-260:
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-267:
I am no legal eagle but to me it seems as if Its basically about Government who is saying that the new bill is aimed at threats by “foreign spies,” and not at covering up of corruption. But we are obviously skeptical as it appears as if it will make the life of any whistleblowers very difficult- it seems as if it will force them that if they come into possession of any documents or “evidence” re issues of state corruption or state “secrets” they must immediately turn it over to the police or security services otherwise they will be locked up. Presumably, that would mean that journalists who simply heard something from a source or received documents would be subject to imprisonment. The public-interest defense—the notion that the public’s right to know can outweigh the state’s need for secrecy—doesn’t seem to exist in the new bill.
To me it seems wrong- it will be much easier to “cover up” and to protect corrupt officials and politicians.
22 Nov 2011, 21:56 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-270:
Did you see the post that someone posted somewhere on this site re Cliffie and Skattie Etsebeth and the line- out calls?
22 Nov 2011, 21:57 pm
this Bill is the thin edge of the wedge….it is an affront to our hard fought for democracy.
How often in life the victim becomes the perpetrator.
I tell you now every single Saffa should be deeply offended by this Bill…..especially those who fought so hard for democracy…….every last one of us must do everything we can to ensure that this Bill is never signed into law….it sucks big time….it is an attack on our very fabric and basic freedom…..
I try and not talk politics here…..but let me tell you this is the most serious matter since 1994…..this is farken huge trouble.
22 Nov 2011, 21:58 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-272: it was farken funny!
22 Nov 2011, 22:00 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-267: The bill has a provision whereby in the instance that a journalist is provided with a classified document, and they’d like to publish a story about they’ve 14 days to make an application to government to get the document released, in the event that the government declines the application, journalists can make an application to the courts. There’s also a provision that permits journalists or other to go directly to the courts to lodge an urgent application for release of a classified document without making an application to government first. Furthermore, the act provides for the whistleblowers protection, which is already written into law in the form of the whistleblowers act. The bill specifically states that in the event of maladministration I.e. Corruption, misuse of government powers etc etc., these acts will not be interpreted as classified information.
22 Nov 2011, 22:00 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-263:
That is great stuff.
Where did you get it from, I am fairly familiar with the Who and Townsened’s material but do not know this one from Daltrey?
22 Nov 2011, 22:04 pm
@grant10(grant10)-274:
Yes, lol, and the ********** in his post was obviously not Pathagoras (the UCT call) but an afrikaans word that also starts with a P and ends with a S
22 Nov 2011, 22:08 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-277:
All those fancy codes means nothing- they only throw to the “ph. oos met die rooi baard” anyway
22 Nov 2011, 22:10 pm
So that’s basically what I said, just longer version.
22 Nov 2011, 22:18 pm
@Dawn(Dawn)-279: Not really, I suppose I looked at the processes of recourse, and equally, that I support the bill and find it as a clear progression in our democracy.
22 Nov 2011, 22:18 pm
@mpundulu(mpundulu)-275: and who pays the legal fees? Frankly, having to make Court or other applications in the instance of breaking news is ludicrous.
22 Nov 2011, 22:29 pm
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-281: the contention of legal fees cannot be the basis of your unsupportive stance of the bill. The bill speaks to the protection of national security information and that’s a good thing.
22 Nov 2011, 22:30 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-276: It;s a solo release. Google the youtube vid, it’s worthwhile. It’s obviously got a reference to Kieth Moon, but was actually co-written by John Parr, who also wrote (and performed the no 1 hit “Man in Motion” (St Elmo’s Fire)
@Robzim(Robzim)-272: Yes i actually laughed out loud at that! I can just imagine!!
22 Nov 2011, 22:32 pm
@mpundulu(mpundulu)-282: you’re a hardcore ANC man, so I doubt discussing this topic with you is going to be anything other than a complete waste of time.
22 Nov 2011, 22:35 pm
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-281: Besides, south africa is a democracy and is underpinned by a capitalist system if you want to express your perspective within a formal legal environment, you have to pay!
22 Nov 2011, 22:35 pm
@mpundulu(mpundulu)-275: But that in itself is only half the problem. It’s that it is classified in the first place (as in the arms deal example above) so you wouldn;t know about it.
It also does not protect the whistleblower so it would not be leaked in this instance.
@mpundulu(mpundulu)-280: It’s a clear REGRESSION is what it is.
Every political anyalyst, black, white Asian and coloured has come out in vehement criticism of the Bill. Find me someone other than the ANC who is respected in their field who thinks it’s a good idea.
22 Nov 2011, 22:36 pm
So the act only applies to classified state secrets and even for that you have to go to court.
Everytging else is all ok.
22 Nov 2011, 22:38 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-269: not as elequent as you though
had a similar photo on mine just half blacked out
.
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-270:WOW
22 Nov 2011, 22:39 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-283:
Cool , i will have a look- Moon the loon was one of the best ever (if not the best)- i have a DVD of the Who playing in the 60′s with Keith having injected himself with horse tranquiliser playing slower and slower till he passes out-
Pete Townsend then calmly asked whether anyone in the audience can play the drums and they eventually picked someone to “replace” keith- the bloke was hardly adequite but somehow they managed to finish the set.
22 Nov 2011, 22:46 pm
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-284: It’s unfortunate that you are of that opinion as I believe a vibrant democracy must be informed by citizens who actually read the bills put forward by the legislative house and don’t merely rely on newspaper articles.
22 Nov 2011, 22:48 pm
@Dawn(Dawn)-287: Yes
22 Nov 2011, 22:52 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-286: the arms deal in of itself was not a secret, as there were public government tenders, the issue came in owing to maladministration therefore illegal practices by individuals, and the bill speaks directly to this! Once again this bill is very progress and required in a democratic country. There’s no nation state on earth that wants sensitive security information to be in the public domain, hence the demise of wikileaks!
22 Nov 2011, 23:02 pm
@mpundulu(mpundulu)-290: Dont think we have a vibrant democracy, just a party voted in by the mostly uninformed and uneducated masses, frankly the anc can do anything and still get voted in, so not so much of the vibrant, so every other political party member today didnt know what they were doing by voting against this bill, and all the experts dont know what they are talking about, and only the anc know whats what in the zoo, yet they were told every one will show for todays vote and all will vote for this bill, vibrant democracy.
22 Nov 2011, 23:02 pm
@mpundulu(mpundulu)-292: I have no issue with the nescessity of protecting genuine state secrets. The issue here is the mechanism used to do it and the checks and balances to protect you and I from it’s abuse.
And in it’s current form it’s not adequate. As said as much above.
I’ve read the Bill from start to finish by the way. it’s linked into what i do for a living.
22 Nov 2011, 23:05 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-289: Yes he was a character! Sounds like quite a show!
Townsend was a genius in my opinion. Wrote some amazing stuff and could play a bit too
22 Nov 2011, 23:12 pm
Oh and Old Tutu and Nelson Mandela being against this bill makes them what ?
No mpundulu, You have lost credibility by saying what you did, strange how every one else has a different opinion of this bill.
22 Nov 2011, 23:16 pm
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-268:
That is the greatest tragedy of what is SA…. the uneducated masses through no fault of their own.
I long for the day when the educated masses will will be able to get rid of this bunch of effing idiots with one quick tick of a vote ballot.
It will happen… sooner than later
22 Nov 2011, 23:27 pm
Despite the incessant, month-long and continuing “Bitchin’ in the Kitchen ” mentality of the many derelicts(as in soocial misfits) and the depraved(as in corrupt and social perverts) I simply cannot pass this opportunity up for all the tea in China.
The ultimate height of hypocrisy in S.A. is that instant when former franchised make noises about ” RIP democracy ” or further, talk about ” an affront to our hard fought for democracy “.
What democracy or what fight for it are we talking about by former franchised?
Where were your/their, and/or your/their forebears, even pipsqueak noises between 19′voertsek’ and 1993/4 when anything but “democracy” made them all so very happy, simply because you/they benefitted so well from the lack of said “democracy”?
Do you/they even now care to remember that tens of thousands were just thrown into prisons anytime, any day of any year just because they protested some social aspect that grossly and negatively affected their lives?
Look at the virtual millions that are on the streets protesting presently. They are thrown into jails with the help of such odious laws as the 90 and 180 days Detention clauses of those laws?
Some of you, in all probability, played a role in rounding up those unfortunate innocents and now you moan like ruptured pigs.
Your deliberate reading of any present situation, unknown to you,obviously, reveal your lack of any understanding of even the prevailing S.African political situation.
How very much does the ‘african NATIONAL congress’ differ from your former ‘NATIONAList party’ except but in a degree of personal hue in the skin of all?
It is not as if the one represents a totally different economic system relative to the other. Hence little difference in the level of corruption then and now, except that there are many more black fingers to be poked into the pieces of the pie.
Quite amazing and stunning how PERSPECTIVE can be so easily discarded.
22 Nov 2011, 23:31 pm
@mpundulu(mpundulu)-290: you are indeed deluded if you honestly believe SA has “a vibrant democracy”.
More like a one party state. And we all know that’s as healthy as a lifetime smoker with Emphysema.
22 Nov 2011, 23:32 pm
@Treehugger(Treehugger)-293: The bill is not a secret it’s out in the public domain to be read, discussed, and negotiated. Opposition are fully aware of it and actually agree with most tenets of the bill. When the majority of people don’t agree with your political perspective it does not necessitate that they are ill-informed and ignorant and you are the sole beacon of light! Hoisting one’s own petard is one thing but your suggestion is sheer self adulation, and you must stop it!
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