The 2011 keo.co.za awards
6 Dec 2011
JON CARDINELLI and RYAN VREDE rate the real winners and losers of the 2011 season.
THE HEROES by Ryan Vrede
The Irresistible Force - To watch Schalk Burger live borders on a spiritual experience. His work-rate can only be fully appreciated when you watch him effect a tackle then spring from the ground as if it were strewn with scorpions, track across the field and make another, then another and yet another. There is nothing elegant about his ball carrying, but what it lacks in panache it makes up for in power which is fuelled by a deep determination to cross the gainline. He was outstanding at the World Cup and has yet to show signs of a drop-off in potency. Thank God. The Springboks are significantly less formidable without Schalla.
Rocking Rookie - Jaco Taute is an excellent prospect and has the makings of a Springbok. The Lions fullback plays with a healthy disregard of failure, a trait I last saw as strongly exhibited in a young Frans Steyn. He will be central to the Lions’ Super Rugby cause in 2012. Franchises with better prospects of Super Rugby success are sure to be suitors in the coming years. The Lions have to secure his short-term future if they are serious about significant advancement.
And now for something completely different - Israel Dagg plays Test rugby with the freedom of kid on a run out with mates in the local park. There are players I’d pay to see left on the team coach, then those, like Dagg, who somehow justify the mind-blowing ticket prices for Tests. He has a complete technical skills set and the temperament to amplify his threat. But, like the greats, he has something in reserve – that indefinable quality that ‘x-factor’ doesn’t completely do justice too. The try he crafted for Ma’a Nonu in the World Cup semi-final is a prime example and was the most sublime piece of individual play I’ve ever seen live. He will be, at least, as good as the great Christian Cullen. He is my Player of the Year.
Bloody Legend - Richie McCaw’s foot was held together by hope and steel during the World Cup. Doctors had advised him to miss the tournament, explaining that there was no way he could endure the pain the injury would cause. They said the strong pain killing injections being administered wouldn’t dull the sensation of him tramping on needles everytime he put pressure on it. They said he would cause further, potentially permanent, damage. He said ‘thanks’ and set about confirming his status as the most decorated captain in the game’s history by lifting the Webb Ellis trophy.
#thatawesomemoment - For those fans with an appreciation for the theatre of the game (as opposed to the morons who chant ole ole ole) the All Blacks’ Haka in their pool match against France at Eden Park was breathtaking. The stadium fell silent and Piri Weepu’s call to prepare for battle was clearly audible. Then the super-charged collective challenge put to France reverberated around the stadium in a way I’ve never experienced. ‘Wow’, best encapsulates the magnitude of that moment.
Ground breakers from broken ground - Many of the Crusaders players were affected directly and indirectly by the earthquake that ravaged Christchurch early in 2011. It destroyed the AMI Stadium, forcing the Crusaders to play the bulk of their home Super Rugby matches in Timaru and Nelson. They travelled more than any franchise in the tournament, spending time on the road while family and loved ones who were rebuilding their homes and indeed their lives. Few gave them a chance of making the semi-final given the gruelling travel schedule they endured to get to Cape Town. Yet they won and then came desperately close to what would have been one of the great sporting achievements in history. We always knew they were big on talent. Now we know their hearts are equally sizeable.
THE VILLAINS by Jon Cardinelli
In the category of Dimwits in Denial, there were some strong contenders: the Springbok supporters who said Bryce Lawrence was solely to blame for South Africa’s early World Cup exit, as well as the South African journalists who joined the ‘Blame It On Bryce’ campaign instead of facing up to a less parochial reality. In the end, there is only one King of Calamity and in his last year in charge he stood head and shoulders above all the other candidates. Peter de Villiers has refused to admit that the Boks have been in decline since late 2009. The senior players have enjoyed too much freedom which has contributed to the creation of an insular culture rather than a progressive one. Unsurprisingly, De Villiers has maintained his stance that nothing was ever wrong and will be reapplying for the head coach post. Denial thy name is Divvy.
The Immovable Object – John Smit will be remembered as one of the greats of the South African and international game. In the context of the 2011 World Cup, however, he will be remembered as the man who stood in the way of Bismarck du Plessis. The best hooker in the world was in a foul mood towards the end of the tournament, as promises that he would start in South Africa’s big matches were broken. Smit also broke a promise made to the Boks in 2010 when he said that he would stand aside when it was clear that his best days were done. That time came and went long before the global showpiece.
Flop of the Year – In another example of the Bok selection shambles, De Villiers announced two weeks before the start of the World Cup that Morne Steyn would be his No 1 flyhalf. It came as a shock to many, including Butch James who had been told by the coach that he would start the big matches in New Zealand. Predictably, Steyn’s limitations on attack and frailty on defence cost the Boks, and his supposedly dependable goal-kicking game was anything but flawless.
Dinosaurs must die – Tobie Titus and the other freemasons at the Western Province compound have had the final say on the Cape Town Stadium issue, and woe betide anybody that brings this topic up again. When it was announced that Saracens would be playing Biarritz in a historic European Cup game at the Cape Town Stadium in January, Titus blew a fuse, stating that Newlands is the home of rugby in the Western Cape. Eventually Saracens decided to move the game back to England, and so Capetonians will miss out on the chance to watch the best of Europe slugging it out. Bizarrely, the Saracens team will still be coming to Cape Town in January for some R&R and to conduct a few coaching clinics. God, we have some useless administrators in this country.
…and while we’re talking about WP, a special mention must be made of the player management at the union. Peter Grant will enjoy a second stint in the Japanese league and miss the Stormers’ pre-season yet again. Just a couple of months after Lionel Cronje had been snapped up by the Bulls, the Stormers started targeting other young flyhalves like Burton Francis. The biggest management bungle, however, relates to a promising centre and an established international midfielder. Johann Sadie left Cape Town because Jaque Fourie was expected to hold a monopoly on the No 13 jersey in 2012, but just last week Fourie confirmed that he would be moving to Japan for the next two seasons. D’oh!
Daai’s (Nie) ‘n Try – Ahead of the 2011 league match between the Stormers and Crusaders, a mass contingent of Cape-based Crusaders fans mobbed the open training sessions. Some of the fans claimed to be connoisseurs who favoured the Crusaders because of their brand of rugby. Others said that their reasons for supporting a Kiwi team were rooted in South Africa’s segregated past. What escaped both groups of supporters was the fact that the Crusaders held a reputation as one of the more pragmatic teams in the tournament, and that the Crusaders were a predominantly white side. Fortunately we will enjoy a break from this deluded bunch next year, as the 2012 league match will take place in Christchurch.
Daai’s Nie ‘n Ref – Did Bryce Lawrence take one two many relaxants before the World Cup quarter-final match between Australia and South Africa? Lawrence adopted an ‘anything goes’ attitude towards managing the breakdown, and consistently avoided penalising either side in this facet of play. In the end, it was the Aussies that adapted best. Last week, Lawrence was honoured with a referee award in New Zealand. Perhaps there aren’t too many professional referees to choose from in Kiwiland, or Lawrence is in fact, as once suggested by Peter de Villiers himself, the son of IRB referee chief Paddy O’Brien.
Union in Turmoil – The chain of controversial events that characterised England’s World Cup campaign read like the script of a Will Ferrell movie. Dwarf-tossing, hotel-staff harassment, senior team members cavorting with mystery blondes, drunk junior players diving off moving ferries… all that was missing was a KY jelly wrestling match and Lewis Moody streaking through the quad en route to KFC. The rugby was also beyond ordinary, and unsurprisingly some important changes have since been instigated at RFU headquarters.
The Frank the Tank award – The colourful behaviour of the England squad paled in comparison to that of Zac Guildford post the World Cup. Bleeding from the head and naked, the All Blacks winger stumbled into a family restaurant in the Cook Islands and proceeded to clout a couple of patrons. Reports of this incident were succeeded by news that Guildford had verbally harassed a Cook Islands athlete, also while he was heavily intoxicated. Will Ferrell and co do come up with some madcap characters, but would struggle to dream up a fighting nude rugby player who also cruises the streets on a hired scooter shouting obscenities at young women. Crazy.
By Jon Cardinelli and Ryan Vrede
313 Comments
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6 Dec 2011, 17:06 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-146: Doesn’t bother me in the slightest
6 Dec 2011, 17:09 pm
@Michael(mikeybrass)-151: He was a great wing for a few years there. Had that Killer instinct.
6 Dec 2011, 17:11 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-152: I’ll never forget one moment against the Aussies in the ’97 thrashing. Joubie launched a magical counter-attack from his 22. He beat countless defenders, passed to Smal who had a magical run of his own to the tryline. Fantastically creative player.
Joubie, Smal and Williams were our best post-isolation back 3 imo.
6 Dec 2011, 17:13 pm
@Gunther(gunther)-149: um, “arms deal dudes” if you can point ‘em hehe maybe we’ll shoot ‘em
6 Dec 2011, 17:13 pm
@Michael(mikeybrass)-153:
Chesters intelligent support lines and work rate have also been the best for a Bok wing post isolation.
6 Dec 2011, 17:15 pm
@Michael(mikeybrass)-153: Yes for sure, but for me the magic was created by Jouba. He had a class about him that was amazing.
Used to be able to glide into space at blistering pace.
I’ll never forget a Baba’s game with Tony Underwood playing.
Jouba joined the line and put his foot down. When he looked left to pass out to his wing he’d outrun him by about 5 meters. Underwood just couldn’t keep up.
6 Dec 2011, 17:16 pm
things that make you go hhmm
MIA SWART: Time for whites to take their protest public
White South Africans seem too timid, inhibited or complacent to raise their voices or to stamp their feet.
Published: 2011/12/02 07:45:50 AM
BY APPEALING against his suspension from the African National Congress, Julius Malema showed that he will not lie down. Like a phoenix he is bound to rise again. Malema’s reckless statements have often done nothing but infuriate. But he has made constructive statements too. A few years ago, he said that white South Africans do not march. He was referring to the fact that white South Africans do not join in large numbers when significant historical events are commemorated. During Human Rights Day or Youth Day celebrations one sees few white faces. The same is true during political protests.
There is clearly no culture of protest among white South Africans. With few exceptions white South Africans don’t protest. The Black Sash was a notable exception. From the mid-1950s, white middle-class women who were members of the movement demonstrated against discriminatory legislation such as the pass laws by marches, demonstrations and vigils. To show their disapproval they stood outside public buildings, defiantly wearing their black sashes.
White South Africans generally watch and criticise black South Africans who protest for political and economic rights from the safety of their living rooms. Whites may sign internet petitions from the safe isolation of their homes and offices, but are reluctant to march. White South Africans are more likely to show up en masse for rugby matches or U2 concerts than to defend their civil rights or the civil rights of their compatriots.
It is difficult to argue that there is anything good about the passing of the “secrecy bill” last week. But this bill did have a few illuminating side-effects: it starkly showed alliances and allegiances (also in the ANC); it demonstrated the power of politics (stronger than the power of business or the courts); it finally shook many out of their self-satisfied states of complacency; and it finally inspired black and white to protest side by side.
The protests outside Parliament and Luthuli House were significant acts of social engagement and protest. But in light of the bill’s potentially democracy- destroying nature, one would have expected many more to join in. From what I could gather, the protests seemed a bit too orderly, a tad too tame. In October I attended a social justice protest on Rabin Square in Tel Aviv. Thirty thousand people gathered to object to economic policies that ordinary Israelis find oppressive. Protesters chanted slogans with a revolutionary rhythm until late in the night. The atmosphere was electric.
Just months before 350000 protesters gathered in Tel Aviv during the Occupy Tel Aviv protest.
This has been the year of protests. Even more dramatic than the protests organised by the Occupy Wall Street movement across the globe, the protest on Tahrir Square will be remembered as symbolic of the Arab Spring and the Egyptian Revolution. The intensity and scale of the protests remind one of the words of Victor Hugo, that there is nothing as powerful as an idea whose time has come.
More than 50000 protesters occupied Tahrir Square when the protests started on January 25. Al Jazeera reported that by February 1 more than 1-million protesters had peacefully gathered in and around the square. This protest was recently revived by Egyptians protesting against the interim military rulers. These protesters are persevering in spite of efforts by the security forces and police to dismantle them. Referring to the crackdown on protesters protesting as part of the Occupy movement in the US, Naomi Klein wrote that the Occupy protesters are coming closer to their brothers and sisters in Tahrir Square.
Protesting can have a certain pretentious see-and-be-seen quality. But protesting Egyptian style is far from glamorous. It means persevering in spite of bad weather and tear gas. It means camping outside for weeks.
White South Africans should be inspired by the global protests and march en masse . Ironically it is this kind of mass mobilisation that will help break down barriers between black and white, create a sense of identification and perhaps reduce paranoia in our government.
White South Africans seem too timid, inhibited or complacent to raise their voices or to stamp their feet. Passionately joining in protests is the most appropriate response to the passing of the secrecy bill. And in the spirit of Tahrir Square, one would hope that South Africans will soon march not just for themselves but also for their neighbours in Zimbabwe.
• Swart is an assistant professor at Leiden University.
6 Dec 2011, 17:17 pm
@David(David)-155: And man oh man, that man could tackle.
Hard as nails.
6 Dec 2011, 17:18 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-137:
she’s a livewire that one..
6 Dec 2011, 17:25 pm
The new coach should rope in Jubbie as a consultant.
Yes, Chester was fantastic. The Boks were blessed with first him and then Pieter.
6 Dec 2011, 17:38 pm
Fairness is relative – Majola
{{ ” Cricket SA (CSA) chief executive Gerald Majola said fairness was relative with regard to the distribution of bonuses after the successful hosting of the IPL in 2009.
Majola was speaking after he was questioned on his understanding of fairness when he and Don McIntosh, the Indian Premier League tournament director, received more than two-thirds of the pool of money meant for bonuses.
“Fairness is relative. Fairness is if I am happy to pay you for the job you have done,” Majola told a ministerial inquiry in Pretoria on Tuesday.
“In my view, if the people who authorised these payments thought the people who got this money deserved it, then it was fair.”
Earlier, Majola denied that he had not disclosed the bonuses to CSA’s board members.
“I was totally convinced at the time, as it was common practice to do it this way, that I had disclosed properly when I did.
“I was later advised that this had to be disclosed in terms of Section 234 of the Companies’ Act. I had absolutely no idea of the format set-out in that act and I am the first one to admit that I did not disclose this as the act required me to.”
Majola said he disclosed the bonuses to a members’ forum meeting and told the CSA board.
“I have already informed the board of receiving the bonuses and it has been disclosed in our documents for anybody who wants to see the documents.
“So, I had disclosed that I was going to receive a bonus at two meetings — the members’ meeting with the shareholders and the second one which is the board.”
Majola told the committee the bonus he received was determined by former CSA operations officer Don McIntosh.
“Mr McIntosh [determined my bonus], and his own bonus as well,” Majola said.
“Mr McIntosh did a full schedule, including his [bonus] which I accepted as well. I never discussed mine as it’s very difficult to discuss your own bonus.”
Majola took the stand for the first time in the inquiry into bonuses paid to staff after the CSA hosted the IPL. He said the contract signed for the event was exactly the same as the one used for hosting other International Cricket Council events.
McIntosh, CSA’s operations officer, was the tournament director for the IPL, Majola said.
He fulfilled the same role in the 2007 Twenty20 World Cup held in South Africa. Given the short notice for the IPL, they agreed to apply the same terms and conditions. Majola said they used the same principle for determining bonuses as the one applied in previous tournaments.
“The tournament director is more senior when it comes to that [bonuses] and depending on work done he uses a ‘multiples’ guide,” said Majola.
“He got more than me on other tournaments, but on this one [IPL], I did more work than him.”
Committee chairman Judge Chris Nicholson pushed Majola on why he had written a letter to McIntosh on July 16, 2009 telling him, “we have managed to negotiate with the IPL to pay you a special discretionary bonus for your contribution” to the IPL.
Majola said he had no recollection of the letter, but said each member of staff would have received the same letter if they received a bonus. – Sapa }}
‘FAIRNESS’ is only and especially relative when you are truly caught wiith the cookies and the jar in your effin hands Gerald, but do not despair as Transie has been your best supporter until just about now.
6 Dec 2011, 17:47 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-144:
How more effin fake and false can you still get?
Just about 35-40 days ago when I brought this hideous crime against humanity to these Keo pages you were arrogantly hedging your bets on Majola upstaging Nyoka even as pathetic as that notion is. Now you appear to be doing a full 180 degrees as the drip, drip, drip of lies,lies,lies exposes your arrogant stupidity.
Do not even bother to answer but keep looking, especially now, over your shoulder.
Time is tight foor the arrogant ‘blacks’.
6 Dec 2011, 17:54 pm
Only jail time of 20 years or more will stop this stealing of money from those who really need it. In this instance it is the cricket development of those who have been long denied that is losing out and suffering.
CSA has as its MAIN TASK the development and progress of ALL cricket in the country. Everyone but these skunks and their arrogant supporters know exactly where those areas are? And it is not in bank accounts of out and out thieves.
6 Dec 2011, 17:55 pm
E ‘ad nauseum’ T is in town… thread ended…
6 Dec 2011, 18:13 pm
Entertaining the thought of Smal as head coach, I would actually personally love Naka or Plumtree to be considered for forwards coach, AC/Pieter as backline coaching options…
Then a host of specialist backroom consultants to fill in the gaps.
6 Dec 2011, 18:17 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-165:
I thought the Keo bloggers provide the specialist backroom consultants and experts.
6 Dec 2011, 18:25 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-165: Or what about leaving the provincial/franchise head coaches in place and employing one of the specialist forwards coaches (eg the Stormers’ or the Bulls’) ? It would minimise disruption.
6 Dec 2011, 18:26 pm
@David(David)-166: Many here are experts in the arts of the backroom
6 Dec 2011, 18:43 pm
@David(David)-166:
Of course! Silly of me!
@Michael(mikeybrass)-167:
Do you know who the Bulls forwards coach is?
6 Dec 2011, 18:59 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-169: I wish I did. It was ol’ Pote Human a few years back, in 2007 when they fluked the win. I dunno who it is now and Google isn’t revealing.
6 Dec 2011, 19:07 pm
Damn and blast I thought this thread was about us!
The real award winners!
6 Dec 2011, 19:11 pm
And then you have to scrooooooollllllll past protesting whites and cricket kuk.
6 Dec 2011, 19:12 pm
And have the chinless wonder JC call us dimwits.
6 Dec 2011, 19:14 pm
@Dawn(Dawn)-173: Irony has a name. It’s JC.
6 Dec 2011, 19:14 pm
@Michael(mikeybrass)-170:
Johann van Graan.
6 Dec 2011, 19:18 pm
Keo’s elves.
Twats.
6 Dec 2011, 19:19 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-157:
I am far too busy working to pay for the christmas bonsella of maevis to contemplate about protesting.
Anyway everything is apartheid’s fault and all whites were to blame for that so what’s the point?
6 Dec 2011, 19:21 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-175: Thanks
All will be revealed in the New Year. Grantie will either need a valium or a 999 rescue call.
6 Dec 2011, 19:24 pm
How come extraball never updates how he is enjoying his vakansie
Just wheedles on about majola
We invented corruption! We wrote the book!
6 Dec 2011, 19:50 pm
And just this afternoon I was telling Hellen that ET has been scarce and lo and behold he pops up like a bad penny.
There goes the neighbouhood.
6 Dec 2011, 19:59 pm
Oh well he seem to have vanished into the ether.
6 Dec 2011, 20:04 pm
@Dawn(Dawn)-179:
Sometimes I get the impression that ET is one of those “coloureds” who was only against apartheid because it applied to him.
6 Dec 2011, 20:14 pm
It didn’t apply to him he high-tailed it outta here ’87 or thereabout.
6 Dec 2011, 20:41 pm
@Dawn(Dawn)-183:
Off course it applied to him.
6 Dec 2011, 21:17 pm
How. He adopted a struggle that didn’t belong to him, he grew up well off and educated, now it’s his mission in his useless life to **** out whites and act like a washed-out commie, while all the time slagging of others as being stupid and worthless.
6 Dec 2011, 21:55 pm
@gunther: rubbish man, how much can Maevis’ bonus be that you can’t go protest when the ANC want to legalise hiding their clandestine & nefarious activities?
It’s strange when people think patriotism is supporting the boks but not standing up for ANYTHING else that happens in the country. Maybe posting one’s grievances on a blog/news24/twitter/facebook is the new toyi-toyi!
6 Dec 2011, 22:07 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-186: buddy when the whiteys start to protest then get your family out.
because it will be too late.
6 Dec 2011, 22:11 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-186: and you and i both know that its not as easy as you paint i dont we?
any mass movement by whites would be seen/painted as a resurgence of white nationalism etc etc etc racism etc etc naughty naughty etc etc.
whereas we find it absolutely amazing that black people are willing to fight wars and protest against white rule but sit with their fingers up their arses when it is a d ar kie ******** them just as badly eg. mugabe, zuma and every other post white leader in africa barring the leadership of Bots MAYBE.
whats with that you da r kies?
6 Dec 2011, 22:17 pm
Out of order, Rangerman.
6 Dec 2011, 22:20 pm
i get the sense we are dealing with a number of phenomena here:
1. da rki es are very sensitive about the issue of poor/criminal da rkie leadership(rightly so but it may just be the worst thing that could happen to said d a rkies)
2. around 60% of the people in south africa genuinly believe the govt has their best interest at heart, 95% of that group are da rkie s these days. i find this as hilarious as the FOUR blue light convoys i passed in the space of 2 mins outside of umhlanga this afternoon.
3. a significant number of d ar kies are dyed in the wool racists and will always be so no matter how many examples they are shown of black corruption (they are mirrored by the white racists but a far larger number as demographics dictates).
what a country, at least the spearfishing is good!
6 Dec 2011, 22:32 pm
@Dawn(Dawn)-189: maybe Dawnie and i actually mean no offense honestly.
i actually am so caught up in the conflicts and compromises, contradictions and consequences that have ade our land what it is that i strive for understanding and insight every day.
maybe i come across as harsh but i dont mean to.
btw, i am finishing off a synopsis of south african history from a pretty soft perspective and even then apartheid make me want to be violently sick.
much like what is going on now.
6 Dec 2011, 22:39 pm
poor rangerman, still worried about how he’d be ‘seen/painted’ nc nc nc
what happened to clear articulation of one’s ideas and purpose? Nobody can misconstrue your motives if you’ve made them plain and laid the out, lousy copout.
i guess all these civil wars currently ravaging africa are against ‘white’ regimes
watch this space, the day is going to come for the ‘ruling party’ and it is not too far off too.
6 Dec 2011, 22:39 pm
Understandable, but no “d arkies” please!
6 Dec 2011, 22:39 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-191:
rome wasnt built in a day
still a great country but will take the sustained work of all its people.
hard times and aprthied has been abolished less than 20 years ago… less than a generation. there are still the people that remember living it
give it a chance…if it were easy everyone would be doing it
6 Dec 2011, 22:46 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-192: easy mate, easy.
i couldnt give a toss how you view me.
now get out and take the anc out, god man
@Dawn(Dawn)-193: ag ok, deal.
@man1a(man1a)-194: fair enough. late now so i guess this is a bit pointless. tjorts everyone.
6 Dec 2011, 22:48 pm
Too much for me. Gotta go lie down till feeling passes.
6 Dec 2011, 23:28 pm
‘any movement by whites would be seen/viewed as a resurgence of white nationalism’ really, say who?
Just because you think it Ranger doesn’t mean it is true. You go off rattling percentages that you suck out of your arse about people of colour, have you done a survey or do u work for StatsSA and are privy to people’s submissions about how they think?
A ‘significant number of (people of colour) are dyed in the wool racists’ – um, where’s the proof? More conjencture presented as fact just because Rangerman thought it GTFOH
6 Dec 2011, 23:48 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-186:
Did you take the day off to protest?
Or were you here on keo?
Or is this another dynamic that I don’t understand?
7 Dec 2011, 07:02 am
@Ryan(Ryan)-66:
ryan, for christmas please ask for a shirt with all the required buttons, it was disturbing and annoying to watch you in those videos this yr, btw your voice is flippen annoying and your views on rugby or pretty kak!!!!!
btw u should feel stupid giving this “flop of the yr award” to Morne, you and jc deserve it, and with regards to a rugby player who deserves it, it would have to be Spies, but with you choosing steyn again proves to me and everyone else that you know **** all bout rugby
7 Dec 2011, 07:25 am
@seabiscuit(seabiscuit)-199:
Geez …………..the personal attack is a bit ott don’t you think ??
Agree with you on Spies though !!
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