In contention for 10
5 Jan 2012
JON CARDINELLI, writing in SA Rugby magazine, assesses the candidates who will be vying for the Springbok flyhalf jersey this year.
You’d read about it in a comic book or in a sport-meets-sci-fi short story. The powers that be respond to a World Cup failure by ordering their coaches and sport scientists to build the perfect player. Deep in the catacombs of the Newlands headquarters, the eggheads utilise advanced bio-technology to extract the strengths of each South African flyhalf and assemble a composite capable of spearheading a new breed of Springboks.
This hybrid possesses the boot of Morné Steyn, the vision of Ruan Pienaar, the cool composure of Pat Lambie and the innovation of Elton Jantjies. He has Butch James’s defensive belligerence, as well as Johan Goosen’s rare ability to nail long-range penalties. Rejoice all ye faithful South African supporters, for at long last we have manufactured the perfect 10.
It’s a fantastical scenario, but you’d be forgiven for thinking it’s going to take a laboratory experiment or even a radioactive spider bite to initiate South Africa’s flyhalf evolution. This country is blessed with an abundance of talent and yet the coaches continue to back limited players in the all-important position, or indeed fail to back those who have the potential to develop into something resembling the complete package.
In early 2008, Peter de Villiers expressed his desire to mould the Boks into a more threatening attacking unit. Ruan Pienaar was hailed as The Chosen One as the Boks embarked on a tour of the United Kingdom, and by the end of that three-match sojourn Pienaar had proved it was possible to strike a balance between running the ball and playing a more conservative, territory-oriented game.
In 2009, however, De Villiers lost faith in Pienaar as well as his own ambitious strive for duality. His selections, once made with the future good of the game in mind, became purely results driven. Pienaar was replaced by Steyn and while the selection brought the Boks short-term success, it proved to be a long-term decision that set South African rugby back four years. Predictably, the Boks stagnated in 2010 and 2011 and their subsequent World Cup quarter-final exit only underlined a pre-existing problem.
Most South African rugby supporters will want to forget about that disastrous campaign. They will want to read about the next Bok coach and the next group of players tasked with taking this nation forward. They have every right to feel enthused given that the well of talent in South Africa runs deep, but it would be foolish to ignore the failures of the past. The next Springbok coach has to take these harsh lessons into consideration when selecting his preferred flyhalf and formulating his game plan ahead of the 2012 season. What De Villiers’s tenure has provided is a blueprint of what not to do when it comes to managing key players and constructing playing patterns designed to win matches between and at big tournaments.
Steyn may have provided the Boks with goal-kicking security and a formidable tactical kicking game, but his weaknesses were mercilessly exposed by some of the better World Cup teams. Wales targeted his channel in South Africa’s opening game, while Samoa and Australia also enjoyed terrific momentum whenever they focused their attack on the limited No 10. With ball-in-hand, he played so deep in the pocket that he allowed opposition defences to negate South Africa’s attacking space. To paraphrase Eddie Jones, you just can’t afford to pick a flyhalf who plays in a dinner suit.
While the past few seasons have highlighted what is wrong with our rugby, they haven’t given us a definitive answer to the flyhalf question. If Steyn is unable to rectify his shortcomings, which after three international seasons looks to be the case, then the next Bok coach has to back someone new whether the goal is short-term success in 2012 or even long-term success in 2015.
Pat Lambie is a prime candidate. He was handed the flyhalf responsibility as a 20-year-old in the 2010 Currie Cup, and proved to be the difference in the final against Western Province. He was given limited opportunities on the Boks’ tour of the home nations, but honed his game in the 2011 Super Rugby tournament, particularly in the departments of tactical kicking and shooting for goal.
Lambie did an admirable job at fullback during the recent World Cup, but has the skill set to excel in a greater game-shaping role. After four seasons, Wallabies coach Robbie Deans has now decided that it’s time to move the supremely talented James O’Connor to inside centre or flyhalf. After a two-season apprenticeship, perhaps it’s time that Lambie made a similar shift to the playmaking axis.
That he has the composure to perform in a high-pressure environment is not in question, and his value on defence and attack has been evident in previous Tests against the home nations as well as in this year’s Tri-Nations Test in Wellington. That latter display was especially significant as Lambie showed that he could impose himself on attack despite the lack of momentum up front.
Elton Jantjies’s match-winning efforts in this year’s Currie Cup final capped an incredible comeback for a player who had struggled in the preceding Super Rugby competition. That he had the goal-kicking ability and tactical-kicking prowess to be a success was never in doubt, but what marked his recent rise was a new confidence on attack and a willingness to take on the defence. Next year’s Super Rugby instalment will show just how far he’s come in this respect, and will also serve as an indicator of his defensive progress. If he can build on his Currie Cup form, he should be groomed for the ultimate responsibility at Test level.
There are more established options that the incoming Bok coach may want to consider. Steyn is a safe bet as long as the Boks aren’t playing a team that can outmuscle them in the forwards. If he wants to be viewed as more than goal-kicking insurance or a one-trick pony in general play, he will need to prove that he’s capable of a more balanced game in the coming Super Rugby tournament.
It’s a tough ask given the Bulls are at the beginning of a rebuilding process and the bulk of their forward veterans, namely Victor Matfield, Bakkies Botha, Danie Rossouw, Gary Botha and Gurthrö Steenkamp, have left the franchise. Unlike Lambie, Steyn has shown himself to be particularly susceptible when his pack is under pressure, and it would be a stretch to believe that he can develop while his forwards are losing the battle up front.
De Villiers abandoned the Pienaar experiment in 2009, and his successor is unlikely to reinstate the versatile player given all that has transpired over the past two seasons. Once open to the possibility of playing 10, Pienaar has declared himself a specialist scrumhalf since moving to Irish club Ulster in late 2010. His confidence has also been dented through the mismanagement of previous Bok coaches, and while it will remain one of the great tragedies that he wasn’t given a fair go at flyhalf, it’s a mistake the next coach won’t be able to rectify.
Peter Grant is another who has hurt his chances of a Bok recall by deciding to play at least half of each season abroad. After his first stint with the Kobe Steelers in Japan, he returned to the Stormers undercooked, and struggled to recapture his form as the 2011 Super Rugby competition progressed. While Grant’s general game has regressed since 2010, his line-kicking has been consistently underwhelming.
The Boks need more than a kicking flyhalf to be successful in 2012, but they also need a pivot who can play a territorial game when the situation demands it. Steyn doesn’t meet the requirement of a modern-day 10 because his attacking game and defence are substandard, and Pop-gun Pete is at the other end of the scale of flyhalves who lack a balanced game.
Apart from Lambie and Jantjies, there are several other youngsters who the Bok coach should be monitoring closely over the next year or so. Sias Ebersohn has flourished in the attack-minded Cheetahs set-up, while Lionel Cronjé has shown at times why Rassie Erasmus once touted him as the next Frans Steyn. Johan Goosen, a schoolboy prodigy who became a YouTube sensation thanks to his outrageous long-range penalty attempts, shouldn’t be spoken about in the national context just yet. What is clear at this point is that all three of these players have the raw potential to be something special.
Of the young prospects, Lambie has had the most opportunities with his franchise and the Boks, but needs to be managed carefully if he is going to be a driving force. Sharks incumbent Freddie Michalak enjoyed a good Currie Cup this year, but if the next Bok coach intends to use Lambie at flyhalf, the 21-year-old needs to be starting in that position for his franchise. That Michalak plans to return to France should also influence the Sharks coaches’ decision to start Lambie at No 10 sooner rather than later.
Lions coach John Mitchell publicly criticised Jantjies at the beginning of Super Rugby this year, but recognised the need to back the youngster towards the end of the tournament. Mitchell also stuck with Jantjies throughout the Currie Cup and preferred him ahead of Butch James when the Bok veteran returned from a failed World Cup campaign in late October. Mitchell should continue to play Jantjies in this key position in 2012. Jantjies’s performances in the 2011 Super Rugby tournament suggested he needed another season to develop, and the 2012 edition will show whether he’s made the necessary improvements to be considered a realistic candidate for Bok playmaker.
That the Boks need to start embracing all facets of the game and maximising their attacking potential is not up for debate, but as to who is worthy of that hallowed No 10 jersey will only be decided after several months of Super Rugby action. Providing the candidates receive sufficient opportunities to prove their worth, it promises to be an absorbing contest that will give the Bok coach something that his predecessors may have lacked: a number of balanced options.
– This article appeared in the December issue of SA Rugby magazine. The January-February issue is on sale now.
362 Comments
5 Jan 2012, 13:19 pm
Jantjies or Steyn Dragon.
Lambie to fight for 15.
5 Jan 2012, 13:24 pm
FSteyn should be FB, therefore Lambie should be 12 or 10. Janties then at 10 would provide both the forementioned the right platform.
5 Jan 2012, 14:12 pm
With Viljoen and Ludik fighting for the 15 jersey at the Sharks and FM returning to Frogland, Plum will start Lambie in the 10 jersey this year.
Really looking forward to the Mcleod/Lambie combo again. They were awesome in 2010.
Itll be between Lambie, Steyn and Jaintjies for the Boks.
5 Jan 2012, 14:17 pm
Please Plum, don’t mess Lambie around. Make him 1st choice no10. Michelack to cover from the bench.
5 Jan 2012, 14:28 pm
Jaco Taute will be the Bok 15 in the future, he is a proper fullback and IMO. He offers more than Frans Steyn. He’s more creative, runs better into space, better at joining the line and can kick them over from almost 60m as well.
One more season and I think Taute will have no equal in SA.
5 Jan 2012, 14:30 pm
Frans Steyn should be 12 and Lambie and Jantjies should fight for 10.
10: Jantjies / Lambie
12: F. Steyn
15: Taute
5 Jan 2012, 14:31 pm
@goyougoodthing2-2: F Steyn proved categorically during the RWC that he should play at 12. taute can play 15, Lambie or Jantjies (depending on 2012 Super Rugby and subsequent Test form) at 10.
5 Jan 2012, 14:31 pm
@JA-JA-6: Snap.
5 Jan 2012, 14:32 pm
@kaksioek-7: I like the way you think
5 Jan 2012, 14:33 pm
@JA-JA-9: So it’s agreed then. Now we just need to let SARU know.
5 Jan 2012, 14:39 pm
the question is whether the new coach will be expected to beat oz, nz at home as non-negotiables and maybe an away win in his first season 4nations.
i think a #10 choice wil be made geared towards this demand and if so then it will probably be morne steyn.
5 Jan 2012, 14:50 pm
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…-11: Lambie and Jantjies are pretty reliable kickers. But if F Steyn plays, I would try letting him take all of the kicks. He is so accurate with the long kicks – who is to say he wouldn’t be even better with the shorter ones?
5 Jan 2012, 14:50 pm
much as i rate him, i don’t think you can pen taute’s name into the boks team sheet…
let’s see how he and the lions handle the s15 first… but i have little doubt taut will be the the bok fullback in a year or few…
right now i’d go with 15 aplon, 12 frans and 10 lambie…
people are saying apron is too old… wtf…? we don’t want to go into another building for the next world cup cycle all over again… aplon is our most dangerous runner from the back and has a great boot from the back too… and his defense is good…
lambie is a cool thinker and can vary the play and guide the team from 10… i really don’t believe he is in any way lesser than michalak other than for age… plumtree is really messing up this kid’s future big-time… really irritates me… if they won’t play lambie at 10… where he said he prefers to play… let him come and play for the stormers… he’d be guaranteed the 10 jersey… play michalak at 9… as none of the sharks 9s are worth getting too excited over…
also wouldn’t be using ink when mentioning elton jantjies in the boks… sure he has talent and has lots of potential… but again, let’s see how things turn out in the s15 first… to leapfrog him over lambie would be grossly unfair and very premature…
5 Jan 2012, 14:51 pm
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…-11: Also, we have far more chance of beating Aus and NZ at home and away if we run the ball.
5 Jan 2012, 14:55 pm
@John Galt-3:
wasn’t it announced a week or so ago that michalak would be staying at the sharks…?
there was talk of him playing his way back into french contention… but he’s not in their 6 nations squad…
5 Jan 2012, 14:57 pm
@ufo-15: Yes.
Michalak to play Super Rugby
24 Dec 2011
Toulon president Mourad Boudjellal confirmed that Sharks halfback Frederic Michalak has made a verbal agreement with the French club, but only from July 2012.
Michalak expressed his desire to return to home shortly after the Currie Cup as he wishes to play his way back into French national squad under new coach Philippe Saint-Andre. Michalak last played for Le Bleus in 2010.
But it seems that move will only happen at the start of the next European season as Boudjellal said Toulon have verbally agreed a three-year deal with the 29-year-old. This means Michalak will feature for the Sharks in 2012?s Super Rugby campaign, which kicks off in February.
‘Nothing has been signed but there is a verbal agreement on a contract for three years,’ said Boudjellal.
‘I think he will be a Toulon player next season. He has been impressed by the chance to play with Jonny Wilkinson and Matt Giteau. We need four to five players of a very high level and, if he signs, Fred will be the start of that.
‘He will come and play at scrumhalf [and] he knows that. His age and experience will help him in this position.’
5 Jan 2012, 14:58 pm
fark M Steyn man….get your asss out the laager aur evoir
5 Jan 2012, 15:01 pm
What? Almost 2000 words on the Bok flyhalf on keo.co.za, and no punt for Butch James? Outrageously unheard of.
I can only imagine that his stocking-filler biography went down like a pair of concrete boots this Christmas season, and this is keo punishing him.
5 Jan 2012, 15:02 pm
@kaksioek-16:
thanks bud…
“He will come and play at scrumhalf [and] he knows that. His age and experience will help him in this position.”
will some sharks fan please make sure than plumtree sees this and stops picking michalak at 10…
5 Jan 2012, 15:06 pm
Taute and Lambie to fight it out for 15. Lambie’s goalkicking not up to international standard. Goosen, jantjies and m steyn for 10. Start goosen at wing for first season if we are scared he will get exposed. He has got the goalkicking stats that m steyn got after 4 years of superrugby. F steyn to start at 12, with a couple of promising youngsters to fight out the backup spot. We should rather start to focus on our lock combo as bekker will get a long term injury in the super season.
5 Jan 2012, 15:10 pm
Lambie is the man….with that Free State laaitie on the “fast track” we will have enough depth. I’ll wait and see what Jantjies does this year…he has yet to display consistent form….we can’t have a stop start player as Bok flyhalf. Steyn must maar go to Japan.
5 Jan 2012, 15:11 pm
@ufo-15:
He’s going back in June.
Apparently has a verbal agreement with Toulon. (doesnt sound that watertight.)
Not complaining, Lambie would have learnt a bit from this old frog and it is my hope that Plum plays him at 10 with Michalak as backup.
I cant see Plum building the backline around Fred only to see him leave and then have to rebuild the backline again in June. I dont think he is that stupid.
Although, he did do some pretty stupid things last season.
5 Jan 2012, 15:14 pm
@Horings-20: I hope you’re wrong about that last part – we need Bekker desperately.
5 Jan 2012, 15:15 pm
I’m liking this “dilemma” the Boks will find themselves in this year and next.
2012:
10: Jantjes vs Lambie
15: Lambie vs Taute
2013
10: Jantjies vs Goosen vs Lambie
15: Lambie vs Taute
Steyn (Frans) must play at 12.
5 Jan 2012, 15:17 pm
@>^..^< katman-18: I got several books this Christmas.
Victor’s book
Tim Noakes’ book.
Bear Gryl’s book
Clarkson’s latest
and some book by John Bishop with a collection of “anecdotes’ about sport by various writers.
No Butch.
I’m devastated.
Maybe I’ll pick one up at the exclusive book sale in Feb. Should be a fair amount available, at a real bargain.
5 Jan 2012, 15:17 pm
Lambie has no calm at 10, Ruan has poor decision making at 10. Morne on the other hand has the boot, has the decision making and is the most composed 10 at test level. He is the complete 10. We saw exactly what he could do when he actually had a real 12 outside him for the first time in his test career (Frans). 12 always was the real issue, but you Keo, and your little yes men, have campaigned hard to get rid of him for inferior players. Yes, it was Grant, then Butch, then Pienaar, then Lambie (what an absolute clanger!). Who will it be this year? Just accept the obvious, without Morne, there isn’t going to be any success in a no.10 jersey. How often does Morne offload the ball to a player in a worse position? He doesn’t. He works well with what is available to him. He was a key figure in the Bulls 2010 triumph, the best attacking performance by any team in Super rugby history! Yes, that’s right, Morne was central to that. I only hope we don’t see any of the lies and hidden agendas like we saw over the last three years, but that is asking far too much.
5 Jan 2012, 15:18 pm
Johan Goossen is worth more than a mention. In 4 games, this kid has shown he can outclass most players senior to him. A boot that’s bigger than that of Frans Steyn (and much more accurate) and he showed he is incredible at the running game. Big, strong and controls the line with precision passing. And guess what!! He can tackle!!
This guy is a phenomenon! Usually I’d say we should give a player more time, but some of the most amazing players (eg Johny Wilkonson) showed that they have a short life-span before the injuries kick in. I’d say get him in there while he’s still standing!
5 Jan 2012, 15:21 pm
@John Galt-22:
hope you’re right about lambie starting 10… i don’t think lambie has a long enough boot to be an international 15… but it is accurate and clever enough to dictate play at 10…
i see him and goosen as our long-term 10s…
let’s hope… but plums a strange kiwifruit for sure…
5 Jan 2012, 15:21 pm
@Kietzphat-24: Lambie is no 10. He had a shakey start at 15 against New Zealand and looked nervy against Fiji, but since that test he did look very good there. The problem is that he could only ever a be a retread 10, and these experiments have never worked for us. Just look at Percy, Gaffie, Adi and many others, who have been shifted around to see that. Lambie is our 15 for now, though I prefer Aplon in most ways. Frans our 12, Morne far and away our best 10, and you have some stability and test quality to work with. Our real dilemma is at 13. Thankfully though 9 should take care of itself with Hougaard. Any attempt to deviate from the above will fail, mark my words. If Smal comes in we will hav hope, but Coetzee or Rassie? Ouch!!!
5 Jan 2012, 15:22 pm
@ufo-28: Lambie does not have it in him to play 10 at test level. He was tried there and failed spectacularly every time. The complete opposite is true, he has started to excel at 15, his first real contribution to the Boks has been and is exclusively there.
5 Jan 2012, 15:25 pm
@Alucard-26: @Alucard-29:
Dude
A “complete 10″ can pass, tackle, kick and run. Morne only ticks one of those boxes. And it sure as hell is not tackling or running.
I’ll take my chances without him at 10 thank you very much.
Lambie and Jantjes both produced man of the match performances in Currie Cup Finals 2010 and 2011 respectively.
5 Jan 2012, 15:26 pm
@stormersboy-25:
why wait for the sale…?
pick one up free…
i hear they’re using them as doorstops at the print shop… and they have been spotted in cape town being used as chocks for cars with busted handbreaks…
5 Jan 2012, 15:29 pm
@Alucard-30:
“He was tried there and failed spectacularly every time.”
how many times has he stared at 10 for the boks…?
5 Jan 2012, 15:29 pm
After a nice holiday break – which isn’t over yet – it really strikes me how bloody opinionated these clueless Keo journalists are.
Personally, I don’t know who the best bet for Bok flyhalf will be going forward, but I know a much, and probably more, about rugby than Cardinelli and co, and I find it impossible to give suce a strong opinion on ANY of the flyhalf candidates.
Steyn is not perfect, but he is not a tenth as bad as Cardinelli makes him out to be, while Jantjies and Lambie have lots of potential, yet aren’t close to the legends in waiting that Cardinelli describes them as.
In conclusion, we have a lot of decent flyhalf candidates with different strengths and weaknesses, but Cardinelli’s opinion is no less a personal wishlist than that of any common blogger on this site.
Like Katman, I am just surprised that superman Butch wasn’t punted more enthusiastically in this article. Maybe he has outlived his usefulness to this crowd..
5 Jan 2012, 15:32 pm
@Kietzphat-31: Morne can run, kick, pass and tackle. Granted he is not a dominant tackler, but more than good enough. Much better than the no show Lambie put up against Australia in the first test last year, and the complete open highway the following week against New Zealand. He is a proven class player who never ever was only a kicker. He statistically kicks less than Carter, and is a very slick distributor. End of story.
5 Jan 2012, 15:32 pm
@kaksioek-14:
last year we ran the ball against oz and nz four times (two each) with diff #10′s and lost.
the one time we kicked the ball (fifth game) we won.
of course i’m not saying kicking rugby is the way, but i am saying that ideas about a good kicker with the temperament and maturity for playing against the two toughest teams in rugby (and be expected to see out two must win home games) is probably going to be what informs the new coach’s thinking wrt the 4nations tests.
thats all.
helluva pressure to put on those kids if theres expectations to win.
consider, even the all blacks and ozzies groom and work their incumbents in over a period of time. think of carter as an example or cooper… they did not just rock up into the 1st choice slot.
there is only three tests against the english (given the quality what will they offer as preperation) before they play the argies in the 4nations (also can be preperation) and then the real kak starts.
just because you throw a laaitie into the kak early or give him a canoe and send him up kak creek does not guarantee he will sommer be able to swim or paddle his way out.
besides, why do this to them when we have a capable player in morne who did run the ball in the quarters (which we should have won save for the fixing) and who can be replaced by any of the laaities if the games are going well.
@grant10-17:
no grant, i want us to run it and kick it as when and where needs be. i support total rugby, so does heyneke.
@>^..^< katman-18:
business is as they say, business, after all…
5 Jan 2012, 15:34 pm
@ufo-33: He has played many tests at 10. In each and every one he has failed to maintain momentum or generate it. He cannot dictate a game nor can he ignite it. He can’t even do that at the Sharks.
5 Jan 2012, 15:37 pm
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…-36:
even the all blacks and ozzies groom and work their incumbents in over a period of time. think of carter as an example or cooper…
and colin slade…?
5 Jan 2012, 15:38 pm
Lambie, Jantjies and Goosen is my choice going forward @10.
Jantjies and Goosen needs good Super rugby tournaments to show they belong with the big boys, Lambie has done that allready imo.
5 Jan 2012, 15:39 pm
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…-36: There is a lot of truth to what you are saying, especially about the RWC QF, but I think it’s time to move beyond the safe option. Lambie wouldn’t be coming from nowhere either – he has 11 Bok caps.
On the other hand, to be fair, we need to wait and see what Morne’s form is like this year.
5 Jan 2012, 15:40 pm
@Horings-20:
@Alucard-26:
agreed on steyn.
he will feature no doubt.
whether its smal or meyer as coach.
5 Jan 2012, 15:42 pm
@Alucard-37:
i repeat my question…
how many games has lambie started at 10 for the boks…?
He can’t even do that at the Sharks.
well he’s hardly playing 10 for the sharks now so harsh to crit him on that… but… as many sharks fans will remind you… he famously put schalk on his bum and many would say lambie ignited the sharks in that game…
5 Jan 2012, 15:43 pm
@ufo-38:
this is one instance that was not by design
you know that.
its the exeptions that prove the general rule.
5 Jan 2012, 15:44 pm
@Alucard-37:
You are clueless buddy, and everyone can see this as clear as daylight.
5 Jan 2012, 15:44 pm
@kaksioek-40:
there we go, i can agree with that one hundered percent, thank you very much.
5 Jan 2012, 15:45 pm
I don’t know how many Tests Lambie has started, but he has played 5 at flyhalf, 5 at fullback and 1 on the wing.
5 Jan 2012, 15:53 pm
Are there any alternatives to Hougaard at scrumhalf?
He’s my first choice if there are no other real contenders, but jeez I liked the look of him on the wing.
He’s a dangerous runner in open space. I especially liked how him and Lambie at 15 combined, running off Steyn at 12.
5 Jan 2012, 15:55 pm
@Kietzphat-47: Sarel Pretorius.
5 Jan 2012, 15:57 pm
@Kietzphat-47:
ruan pienaar..?..
5 Jan 2012, 15:57 pm
@kaksioek-48:
Did cross my mind. Question marks over his defence?
Be interesting to see how he performs for the Tahs this year.
5 Jan 2012, 16:01 pm
We should have the South African equivalent of The Contender.
But instead of boxing, they search for the Bok flyhalf. There’ll be different challenges, coping behind a weak pack, dealing with a kak scrummie on your inside (Special guest, Ricky Januarie), etc.
Sylvester Stallone can even host. Along with Naas Botha. The only shortcoming I can see is that they might not understand each other.
5 Jan 2012, 16:02 pm
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…-43:
not quite…
he was selected with carter and ahead of several other candidates including donald… so there was ‘design’ in choosing him in the wc squad… with 1 or 2 tests under his cap…
but my point is that GH thought he was good enough and had no problem selecting him… so although the ‘rule’ may be otherwise… henry had no problem breaking the rule for someone he thought worthy…
maybe as south africans we should not always be so structured and absolute in our thinking… maybe this more than anything else contributes to our failure…
5 Jan 2012, 16:03 pm
Listen listen listen…..if the Boks don’t hire a decent coach, you might as well be playing with okes from the local high school.
As with the All Islanders, they perfected the art of how to go into a loose maul illegally yet in such a way that the ref thinks it’s okay….and one can only do that by having a very sneaky coach.
Forget the players….South Africa has fantastic players in all positions…it’s the farking coach that makes ALL the difference.
5 Jan 2012, 16:08 pm
@Kietzphat-50: The Waratahs can polish him and then we can give him a run against England.
5 Jan 2012, 16:10 pm
My view:
1. Goosen
moerse gap…
2. jantjes
3. lambie
4 Ebersohn
5 van Aswegen
huge gap…….
6. The rest..
5 Jan 2012, 16:10 pm
@ufo-32: Haha I’m not burning to read it, to be honest.
The Vic book is taking a bit of an effort to get through, I’ll give my verdict at the end.
The fact that I haven’t finished it yet is, I guess, a comment in itself, since it usually takes me a day or so to read the average book.
You have a good Christmas?
5 Jan 2012, 16:10 pm
@kaksioek-46:
yeah… i know… but genuinely don’t know how many times he has started at 10… most times he’s played 10 for the boks has been as a sub…
think he’s actually started once or twice…
but even if it was all five times… dracula’s assertion that “He was tried there and failed spectacularly every time.” is way off the mark…
imo
5 Jan 2012, 16:14 pm
@stormersboy-56:
hehehe…
look forward to your impression of vic’s tome…
cool time thanks… very quiet and peaceful… lots of time on the mountain…
yourself…?
see you got your eagles tickets… where in the stadium if i may ask…?
5 Jan 2012, 16:14 pm
@Robzim-55: I’m not against Goosen per se, but he didn’t impress me at all in the u21 World Cup, and whilst he’s played really well for the Cheetahs and he’s a great prospect for sure, I’d need to see him play a good season of Super Rugby before i would consider him.
The only thing he has convinced me of thus far is that he can kick really well, and we already have a Bok 10 who can do that very well.
If he shows that his flyhalf play is up to it, I’d support his selection 100%, but he needs to still prove himself at Super rugby level IMO.
5 Jan 2012, 16:14 pm
@ufo-57: He hasn’t started many, no. He hasn’t played badly IMO either. His tackling in at least one of the games was outstanding – light and day compared to Morne.
5 Jan 2012, 16:14 pm
Jantjies and Goosen. The rest? Forget about it.
5 Jan 2012, 16:16 pm
@kaksioek-60:
i agree…
5 Jan 2012, 16:17 pm
@ufo-58: Yellow area just right of centre.
It was my pop’s 70th yesterday and I got him a ticket too. It’s difficult to buy for him and he enjoys his music so we’ll go and have a jol. My boet is coming too.
You get yours yet?
5 Jan 2012, 16:18 pm
@kaksioek-60: Light and day should be night and day of course!
5 Jan 2012, 16:19 pm
Early days, still
All depends on who the new appointed Boks coach.
There are 3 Flyhalves come to mind before the 2012 Super Rugby season, by its end perceptions will change
For now main contenders are Styen, Lambie and Jantjies
Goosen who isn’t tested at the Super Rugby level might well distinguished himeself although he has no reputable scrumhalf to feed him good ball.
Then there are Butch and Peter Grant as the safe, fall back option, depends again on who will be appointed as the coach.
With AC expect more of the same PdV’s mayhem
With Gert Smal as the coach it seemed the FH issue will not be a cardinal one, so take your pick.
5 Jan 2012, 16:24 pm
@stormersboy-63:
cool… good to go with family and/or friends…
got mine when the sales opened… really one of my top bands of all time…
i’m in purple area… FC… not sure if that stand for front and centre… but that’s where it is…
really looking forward to it…
but must say… makes me feel rather old that coldplay can sell out in half an hour or so…. but the eagles don’t sell out in weeks…
eagles have sold more albums in america than any other band… and in the world right up there with the beatles…
5 Jan 2012, 16:25 pm
@ufo-52:
yes, but you know this is only because they failed miserably in the 1 and 2 year run up to the wc to find a competent stand-in
or (more apropriately) that their stand-in’s miserably failed them, whichever works.
and that slade only got thrown into the deep end in pe to protect carter, also that had carter not been injured the stand-in’s would have remained just that and would have been worked in post wc probably.
besides, if anything slade sank rather than swam.
why would starting lambie, goosen or jantjies from a bench position be a backwards thinking move by the new coach?
5 Jan 2012, 16:30 pm
I still reckon Morne Steyn has alot to offer Bok rugby!! He will definitely be in pole position for the Bok 10 jersey outside of him i reckon Lambie is next. Lambie such cool composure at the RWC. As far as 12 goes, F Steyn all the way!!
5 Jan 2012, 16:33 pm
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…-67:
for sure ARMTNAR… but i’m not talking about slade’s ability… just henry’s selection of him…
he could just as easily picked donald from the get go as back up to carter… donald is competent… maybe never set the world on fire… but solid… and he did step up to the plater for the final…
point still being… henry had no prob going against the grain… i still think we’re too rigid in our thinking…
5 Jan 2012, 16:33 pm
@New Bok Coach-53:
@Hondo-65:
agreed the new coach will decide things wrt the flyhalf.
but circumstance will also decide things for the new coach who be deciding things…
5 Jan 2012, 16:35 pm
@Alucard-37:
Are you r etarded or only 1 year old.
I ask this because if you are only 1, you never saw the CC FINAL 2010 where he was man of the match and scored 25 of the 30 points scored that day.
Playing flyhalf.
And he has only started 1 game at flyhalf for the Boks. Against the All Blacks in last years tri nations when we sent our B team over there. Hardly reason to say he has NEVER performed at flyhalf for the Boks.
He’s come on 4 times as a sub at FH and all the rest at FB.
Please, pull your head out your arsehole before you just make blanket statements like that on a public bog.
5 Jan 2012, 16:35 pm
@ufo-66: Yeah to me there’s no comparison.
Didn’t go to coldplay, I enjoy them but you have to pick your concerts these days. Makes a big change from when the early ’90′s when we had just had our cultural embargo lifted and one of the first bands that came here was Indecent Obsession. They had a 1 hit with that some strawberry lips.
And we all went to watch them lol.
How times have changed.
5 Jan 2012, 16:42 pm
@stormersboy-72:
yeah… like kids let loose in a candy store…
not saying coldplay are turkeys… but i’d rather soar with the eagles…
parachutes is a helluva good album… but not quite hotel california…
anyway off for now…
cheers…
5 Jan 2012, 16:43 pm
@John Galt-71:
thank you…!!
5 Jan 2012, 16:50 pm
All the best for 2012 everyone.
5 Jan 2012, 16:51 pm
@ufo-69:
would henry ever have picked slade or donald to start over carter?
even now after the wc?
i think not, he would pick any of them as a stand-in backup though with the possibliity of them working their way into the starting slot.
thats my point.
the margins for winning games, in rugby, at the top is too small and too tight for any of the big three coach’s to gamble with losing four big games in one season.
yes, the boks and wallabies may lose that many to the ab’s but its certainly not by design. in fact the intention is the exact opposite. we seem prepared to gamble one or maybe two throwaway games but for the rest there’s incredible pressure to win.
none of these teams pick rookie flyhalves from the get go unless forced to by injury.
5 Jan 2012, 16:51 pm
PARTING SHOT?
My “view” is, at least, 90% of you really STINK.
Does that mean my view is anywhere near being accurate at all?
Surely cannot be so, really considering all the Aramis, Fahrenheit, Polo and Old Spice used?
The POINT is opinions, views, notions and such like count for F O K K O L, especially if they are nowhere being highly informed at all.
Only informed opinions, or better still, the truth bear any weight in the real world out there.
What really is the informed basis of motivation for the lofty “view” of one ,Goosen? Is it his ‘brilliant’ performances in the Jnr WC recently in Italy against peers who out-performed him in that tourney? Or is it what he did in a supposed CC(really Vodacom cup)? Is it perhaps that he has a worthy Herrenvolk name and comes from the required and worthy ‘cultural’ background and lives close to Orania?
Has he ever shown more than Lambie and Jantjies who even at their young ages have infinitely more experience and worthiness and have shown more for genuine consideration the position?
Where is the persperctive and why is it always twisted or vastly missing in present day S.Africa?
Distortions, twisting of the facts, cover-ups, deluded opinions, prop-ups, outright lies, is it all, like misguided perspectives part of the game of shame here now?
5 Jan 2012, 16:52 pm
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…-76: Dude, if we had Carter this thread wouldn’t exist.
5 Jan 2012, 16:57 pm
@Alucard-37: What you on about? Lambie has only ever started at fh against NZ with 3rd string Boks last year. All our top Boks were in Rustenburg training for the wc. Or have you forgotten.
Pat’s only time he played for the Boks with most top Boks was on the eoyt last year and even then he never started one of those games, he only came on as a sub in the last 15min or so. So how the heck can you say he failed when he has never ever been given the chance to start at 10 with the top Bok players playing?
Give Lambie the amount of chances that Morne has had and let us talk then.
Jeepers you talking nonsense now Alucard.
5 Jan 2012, 16:57 pm
kaksioek#78 – MM Dan Carter still hasn’t won a RWC and will probably not make the next one!! DC never had the mental edge for the RWC but absolutely sublime inbetween. Ok he did injure himself during this RWC but i have a hunch that was probalby down to nerves affecting him!!
5 Jan 2012, 16:59 pm
@Robzim-55: I LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING MORE OF gOOSEN….Fark sorry caps
havent seen a lot of him as yet.
just not M Steyn
liewe biksem
5 Jan 2012, 17:00 pm
@race of tan-68: Agree.
Frans Steyn definitely has that 12 jersey. Let us see Lambie at 10 with Steyn at 12.
5 Jan 2012, 17:01 pm
@ET.-77: I think your nose is too close to your ar se Dr Dooliitle.
It’s your own bullshi t that you are smelling.
But I agree, it stinks.
5 Jan 2012, 17:02 pm
@race of tan-80: He has a RWC winner’s medal.
5 Jan 2012, 17:04 pm
go proteas
moer hulle
5 Jan 2012, 17:05 pm
@kaksioek-78:
you say this as if we’re stuck with slade or donald.
5 Jan 2012, 17:06 pm
@ufo-57: Howzit ufo,
How you bud? Hope well and all the best for 2012.
You correct Lambie has only started once at fh for the Boks and then we can’t take that game serious. It was last year in NZ with a 3rd string Boks. The top players were all here training for wc. The other games at fh was eoyt last year when he only came on as a sub for about 15min in each game. He has not really been given a good chance there yet. My feeling if left there and given the amount of chances that Morne has had we will see a really top class fh in Pat.
I also think he is equally good at fb. He proved himself there in the wc. Solid there all the time.
5 Jan 2012, 17:07 pm
9 sarel pretorious
10 jantjes….Lambie….Goosen ….[ no M Steyn ffs man ]
12 F Steyn
13 jdj
14 jpp
11 aplon
15 taute
bobs your aunt
5 Jan 2012, 17:08 pm
grant10 – your team stinks. F Steyn and J Fourie looked great last year and that should be the Bok centres for the forseeable future.
5 Jan 2012, 17:08 pm
grant10 – Aplon is too small for international rugby!!
5 Jan 2012, 17:10 pm
lambie …Jantjes and Goosen…
All awesome prospects….
Lets see how they fare at the Super 15…
Not that 1 dimensional 1 tricj skop en jag artist asseblief….
no going back to the laager…….assevokkenblief
5 Jan 2012, 17:13 pm
@race of tan-89: is JF available?@race of tan-90: ag gaan kak in die mielies man!
5 Jan 2012, 17:17 pm
@ET.-77:
Getting rid of Morne Steyn is like getting rid of Ken Bates. A must.
5 Jan 2012, 17:19 pm
@race of tan-90:
Like Shane Williams?
5 Jan 2012, 17:26 pm
@Jinx2-93:
Totally agree with you Jinxie.
Bates is the real Mighty Whites’ cancer of death. Still,however, MOT.
Not concerned about the FA cup. For us it5s promotion or Bates out.
You, at least here deal with facts while unworthy ones enjoy themselves in the gutter of trash and naked emotions on keo, going around smelling arses.
5 Jan 2012, 17:26 pm
Jinx – What about the little big man with a heart of a lion, Breyton Paulse!! Tackled Lomu by himslef, S Williams never Aplon poo his panties!! Problem is Aplon game is rather limited, you need to be a big tackle in this day and age. Aplon will be a good super sub!!
5 Jan 2012, 17:27 pm
Grant10 – What on earth is happening with the new Bok coach selection?
5 Jan 2012, 17:33 pm
@race of tan-96:
Just contending that size is not the issue. Aplon is courageous. But very much agree on super sub strategy. Will bury opposition with tired legs.
5 Jan 2012, 17:43 pm
@ET.-95:
Woody was prepared to come back, But Bates would not cut a deal, All we need is a general at the back.
5 Jan 2012, 17:46 pm
@race of tan-97: not sure
seems like Smal
Schalk for cappy if rumours to be believed.
5 Jan 2012, 17:50 pm
@grant10-100: Hell no …. not Burger no man anyone but Burger for captain.
We don’t want his 29 year old thug entrenched into the team for another 4 years – securing his Bok spot until 2015. Nooooooooooooo!
5 Jan 2012, 17:51 pm
Jantjies or Lambie.
Morne Steyn is too predictable and not a threat on attack. Butch is too old. Time to look to the future.
5 Jan 2012, 17:54 pm
It’s easy to run over Burger these days – just ask Hollenbach – he wil tell you what it feels like.
Pleaaaaasssse new Bok coach – get rid of all the surviving fat boys and start from scratch with a young team.
That means bye-bye Burger, Spies, Steyn, JDV, Habana and you has-been JPP.
5 Jan 2012, 17:54 pm
YOU ALL STINK!
5 Jan 2012, 17:57 pm
@Roar my Lions …. Currie Cup Champions 2011-103:
Lets make all the Currie Cup Lions bokke ja. Problem solved. Lukas Van Biljon could be the coach.
5 Jan 2012, 18:05 pm
@wp_boytjie-105: Drop the tik man – clean up and stop takling kak.
5 Jan 2012, 18:07 pm
Grant10 – Smal & Burger not such a bad idea for now!! Apart from Burger i can’t see who else could be captian, J Smith too quiet!!
5 Jan 2012, 18:08 pm
Now that the tik-kop has been taken care of lets look at the the next Bok 10. Look no further than you Currie final man of the match – Mr 100% kicking record in the semi and final – yes EJ is the man to take the 10 jersey away from the very limited Morne Steyn.
All EJ needs is a good Super campaign, to impress the selectors and new Bok coach and it is his – if he plays well and does his talking on the pitch. His competition will be in the form of the freak of a player Goosen, the irradiated player from Japan, Grant and his stable, mate the Greek kid, will be his competition in Superrugby
What about the Lamb you say … what about him, not able to nail down the 10 position for his own province says it all.
5 Jan 2012, 18:09 pm
Okay so who is “moderating” me?
5 Jan 2012, 18:11 pm
@Dawn-104: is it your HSM buddies blocking me?
5 Jan 2012, 18:13 pm
@Roar my Lions …. Currie Cup Champions 2011-101: not my choice……just what I am hearing from some old okes at the gym who seem to get it right quite a lot!
5 Jan 2012, 18:16 pm
@grant10-111: Sad news that – we don’t even have a coach yet and his uncle Rupert and daddy Burger Snr are already pulling strings to see their boy get the captaincy – enough to make me sick.
5 Jan 2012, 18:22 pm
@Roar my Lions …. Currie Cup Champions 2011-111: I would also go with a wholesale clean out…..those SWC boks were found wanting.
start anew
5 Jan 2012, 18:27 pm
I have no buddies at HSM!
They are beneath my elevated standard!
5 Jan 2012, 18:28 pm
@grant10-100:
Schalk is the man. Nay sayers will be proven wrong.
5 Jan 2012, 18:31 pm
@Jinx2-115: Burger has proven himself wrong in two finals in 2010 by – throwing away kickable points – manking bonehead decisions.
Let’s also not talk about his criminl record – which country on earth allows a convicted face mugger to become captain?
5 Jan 2012, 18:32 pm
@race of tan-96:
consider aplon’s age and then ask whether he’s lit the world up yet?
now consider paulse’s try against the ab’s in the 1999 wc (and this after being looked over for the entire tournament by a coach who thought him too small)… chipped ahead twice and ran almost the length of field outstripping everyone.. cullen diving but failing to secure in front of the tryline and breyton making no mistake to dot down…
he may or may not get a chance to shine in the few years he has left but as of now i can tell you…breyton paulse he ain’t…
5 Jan 2012, 18:35 pm
@wp_boytjie-102:
its cliche’d to say it but more often than not the future lies in looking back…
5 Jan 2012, 18:35 pm
@Roar my Lions …. Currie Cup Champions 2011-111:
Who else?
Lets look at the captains of the other Franchises.
Cheetahs: Juan- he is a has been who is one knock against the head away from permanent retirement
Bulls: Pierre Spies?. Certainly not??
Sharks: Who is their captain?
Lions: The wannabe Chabal? – he is not even close to the bok team as a player and will never be.
Therefore it will be Schalk- and i am not a huge fan of him, but that is just how it will be.
5 Jan 2012, 18:38 pm
@Roar my Lions …. Currie Cup Champions 2011-106:
5 Jan 2012, 18:41 pm
@Robzim-119: I would make Brussow the captain … for me the captain has to be a forward and he has to earn his spot.
I’m with Deans and Mitch on this one, choose the best XV then the captain.
5 Jan 2012, 18:42 pm
@Roar my Lions …. Currie Cup Champions 2011-108:
“all ej needs is a good super campaign” you say..?..
you say it like its ever been an easy thing for lions as a team or as individuals….
5 Jan 2012, 18:43 pm
@Roar my Lions …. Currie Cup Champions 2011-106:
Bla Bla Bla Mr Know it all. Burger for president
5 Jan 2012, 18:43 pm
@Roar my Lions …. Currie Cup Champions 2011-116:
dont forget the try he gifted the ozzies in the quarters.
5 Jan 2012, 18:44 pm
@Roar my Lions …. Currie Cup Champions 2011-121:
Brussouw as captain. Someone’s back on crack.
5 Jan 2012, 18:45 pm
@Jinx2-115: he does well as a blindsider….
but as an opensider he is lost….
depends where coach uses him…
5 Jan 2012, 18:47 pm
@wp_boytjie-125:
thats a reasonable name to put in the hat.
he leads by example.
also perhaps jannie
5 Jan 2012, 18:47 pm
@Roar my Lions …. Currie Cup Champions 2011-121:
Do not expect any “out of the box” thinking from the new boks coach whether he will be Alister, gert or heynecke – they will pick their captain from one of Franchise’s captain’s.- and i am fairly concvinced it will be Schalk.
5 Jan 2012, 18:48 pm
@wp_boytjie-123:
A Smal Burger with Slapchips on the side
5 Jan 2012, 18:50 pm
@Robzim-128:
wow!
talk about going back to the future.
5 Jan 2012, 18:52 pm
@Jinx2-129:
And a heineken as forward coach to swallow it down with.
5 Jan 2012, 18:53 pm
Hougaard (9) and Jantjies (10). God help NZ! Sublime unpredictability.
5 Jan 2012, 18:55 pm
@Robzim-131:
5 Jan 2012, 18:56 pm
@Jinx2-129:
hahaa brilliant.
I have no idea who should be captain. You have to look at guaranteed starting players such as the mighty one and only Schalk , Andries Bekker , Brussouw , Bismarck , F.Hougaard , Willem Alberts etc.
Our captains almost always gonna be a forwad. Lead from the front
5 Jan 2012, 18:56 pm
@Jinx2-132:
lets just hope we also appoint a lifestyle coach to help them sort out their hairstyles. Sublime kak, lol.
5 Jan 2012, 18:57 pm
@wp_boytjie-134:
Schalk: Front and Centre. oops!
5 Jan 2012, 18:58 pm
@Robzim-128:
Sad and such thinking will keep the Boks rooted at no. 4/5 in the world, that’s what will happen with Burger entrenched.
Fact is rugby is no longer a game for oldies – coaches that select young teams, with the average age around 24, like Wales, the Aussies will moer teams with oldies, like Burger running around keeping the youngsters out.
Yes, remember the old and experienced Stormers getting moered, at home by the young and inexperienced Reds.
5 Jan 2012, 19:00 pm
@Roar my Lions …. Currie Cup Champions 2011-137:
You must “get your onions” in order to enjoy a burger.
5 Jan 2012, 19:02 pm
Oh well. I see time in SA has done nothing for extraball.
Still twitter and bisted.
5 Jan 2012, 19:02 pm
@Roar my Lions …. Currie Cup Champions 2011-137:
Good point, my personal choice as captain would be someone like Nic Koster- but he will probably not even make the Stormers team this year because “slowcoach” Vermeulen will be back.
5 Jan 2012, 19:03 pm
@wp_boytjie-134:
Perhaps Chiliboi?
5 Jan 2012, 19:06 pm
@Robzim-140: Hello Rob…trust u had a nice Christmas? Carol tells me she is coming for the Argus again this year….are you aware of this?
5 Jan 2012, 19:08 pm
@Dawn-139:
News for you
Fudge Mabeta is out of the Super 15 Season!
Didn’t realise he was in, hasn’t played any Super Rugby lately, assigned to the CC competition mostly
5 Jan 2012, 19:09 pm
@Jinx2-138: Burgers are bad for you, any nutritionist will tell you that.
@Robzim-140: There are plenty of Sam Warburton’s around … waiting to be selected.
5 Jan 2012, 19:09 pm
@Robzim-135:
That’s two of the worst hairstyles in position. Who are the other 13?
Vermeulen (7)
5 Jan 2012, 19:10 pm
@Hondo-141:
LOL nah . Bolla Conradie!!
5 Jan 2012, 19:11 pm
@carcharodon carcharias-142:
Howzit man, Thanks, i had a good one. Prosperous new year to you too.
I am aware of it and will probably have to push her up Suikerbossie again
Hope things are good there in the mud Island?
5 Jan 2012, 19:11 pm
thought we were discussing flyhalves…now its Captains…thin crop I think. Some one asked earlier…”Keegan Daniel is the Sharks Captain” Terblanche has retired. Daniel is an excellent Captain, but unless he switches to centre he will never be a full time Bok.
5 Jan 2012, 19:12 pm
@Hondo-141: finally you are talking some sense, Chiliboi ahead of Bonehead any day of the week – Heineken will live to regret his decision making Spies his captain.
5 Jan 2012, 19:14 pm
@wp_boytjie-146:
crossed my mind,,,
Any news of Jacobs? hell, even Heini Adams got extension in France
5 Jan 2012, 19:14 pm
@Robzim-147: its weird the Camelias are blooming but it has been really windy and cold the alst couple of days…we even still ahve roses budding. I got some pics from my friend in Kabul today and the snows are falling….so I think winter is here in the NH. Big birthday for Mommy this weekend so we will be celebrating. Euro is diving which is fine…I have been shorting it, but having some hassles with KPMG to get Capital back from a Guaranteed bank account for MFGlobal. Otherwise the sun comes up every day and life is always good.
5 Jan 2012, 19:18 pm
@Roar my Lions …. Currie Cup Champions 2011-149:
But then he will have to play 60-70 minutes, that said, how long you reckon will he last?
Remember: same guy whose season was totalled by a wif name Fabian Jurie (65kg) in a tackle circa 2009
5 Jan 2012, 19:19 pm
@Roar my Lions …. Currie Cup Champions 2011-149:
Who will serve EJ this season?
any decent Scrummy left in the Lions squad>
5 Jan 2012, 19:25 pm
@carcharodon carcharias-151:
Sounds good,good luck with the money market, tricky business. but no muff too tough as u know (up the Navy!)
Lives not too bad here either- great weather, my daughter got great matric results today, surfs not too bad and i have another few days of holidays left.
Bit worried bout the Stormers team for this season, you should also be about the Sharks I guess. But lets see, maybe they surprise us. Bulls also do not look so good, so maybe it’s the year of the cats?
5 Jan 2012, 19:33 pm
@Robzim-154: The Sharks Academy has produced the goods again and again…so not too worried in that dept. But a number of Boks overstayed their welcome and changes should ahve been made a while ago. This will effect the 3 teams mentioned. Lions have a depth problem and they don’t have the cash to fix it. I think we will get our arses handed to us in the Super 15 with Cheetahs being the pick of the bunch. JDV should also quietly withdraw now….one more bump on the head and he is gone anyway. The Spies selection intrigues me and our depth lies in the North and WP….schalk is not the greatest Captain and I think Keegan Daniel is a better Cappie. But Spies may surprise and his performance may improve too…he is the type of guy who likes a challenge. Lambie at flyhalf and that Freestate youngster Gouws should come into the Bok Squad now. Will be interesting to see what happens at lock…with Wikus re-emerging as a lock option…it shows our depth isn’t what it should be. But the WP Bekker and Flippie from the Bulls will probably lift themselves now cause tjey see a gap. But I like combinations….so that isn’t the perfect solution for the Boks.
5 Jan 2012, 19:35 pm
@Hondo-152: there is one scrummy you will like, blue eyed blond, Ross Cronje.
5 Jan 2012, 19:45 pm
Yes Hondo I know about Fudge.
You must be ecstatic!
5 Jan 2012, 19:45 pm
Ok…I’m out. time to feed the dogs.
5 Jan 2012, 19:53 pm
@carcharodon carcharias-155:
It will be interesting to see how Spies goes as cappy- he might surprise us (as you said)- I also like Keegan but imo he is just that one step below international level. IMO Shalck will get the job, but lets see.
Bekker and Flippie would be the ideal combination- Bekker’s continued health is the problem, he is very injury proned and gets overplayed by AC, if he can beat the injury bogy he can become key player for SA over the next few years- a freakish talent imo, one of our few real world class players.
Anyway, I am out for the evening, you must come and blog here more often, Cheers.
5 Jan 2012, 19:57 pm
@Dawn-157:
couldn’t care less,
it’s was a well known secret he can’t take hits
5 Jan 2012, 19:57 pm
@Roar my Lions …. Currie Cup Champions 2011-156:
Is that the kid from the Sharks?
5 Jan 2012, 19:58 pm
Select your 10 after the first 8 rounds of Super Rugby.
5 Jan 2012, 20:02 pm
Ja hondo. He’s a softie.
5 Jan 2012, 20:14 pm
@PissAnt-162:
Exactly. And make sure you have enough depth at FH. Like maybe 5. Ask the Stormers.
Otherwise you’ll end up with srumhalves and props and flanks playing there.
Hang on, we already do.
5 Jan 2012, 20:28 pm
@Hondo-161: yes, thats the one.
5 Jan 2012, 21:17 pm
This article is a bit premature and pointless. Still a lot of S15 to go before we make our minds up.
5 Jan 2012, 21:19 pm
Happy to have these young talents but I think everyone has gone a bit overboard with Lambie praise. He does look calm and collected, but so do I when I play, it doesn’t make me a great player. He is talented but aside from the cc final 2010 I haven’t seen him play well enough at 10 to convince me that is his position. I thought he was average in the 2011 super rugby season. I have seen glimpses to suggest he is a good player but he doesn’t have the same threat that Jantjes has to me. I believe Jantjes definitely has chinks in his armour but I see more unease in a defence he runs at than with Lambie and he seems more capable of moments of brilliance (eg Brumbies last year).
As many have said, this super rugby season will teach us a lot about these players. I will be watching every minute again without expecting too much from these guys. I am just glad that they all are South African.
6 Jan 2012, 01:04 am
@goyougoodthing2-2:
If we had Janties at 10 and Lambie at 12, Nonu and his china’s would run at them all day!!
No, keep Steyn at 12 and Lambie at 15 if you are gonna put Janjies at 10
6 Jan 2012, 05:07 am
@whatever-168:
OMG. Finally, someone with common sense!
Lambie 15, Fransie 12, Jaque 13, Elton 10, Hougaard 9, Spies 14, Toute 11.
We’ll crush everybody.
Are you all over your conservative shite? Let’s get the best rugby players to play rugby TOGETHER.
Smell the coffee!!!!!!!
6 Jan 2012, 06:39 am
sachin edges one…out for 80
6 Jan 2012, 06:53 am
My Bok 30 for 2012…..
15. Riaan Viljoen / Jaco Taute.
14. Gio Aplon / J.P. Pieterson.
13. Jacque Fourie / Johan Sadie.
12. Francois Steyn / Jean De Villiers.
11. Bryan Habana / Lionel Mapoe.
10. Johan Goosen / Patrick Lambie.
9. Francois Hougaard / Sarel Pretorious.
8. Pierre Spies / Willem Alberts.
7. Schalk Burger (c) / Juan Smith.
6. Heinrich Brussow / Francois Louw.
5. Andries Bekker / Juandre Kruger.
4. Bakkies Botha / Rynhardt Elstadt.
3. C.J. Van Der Linde / Jannie Du Plessis.
2. Bismark Du Plessis / Andriaan Strauss.
1. Coenie Oosthuizen / Tendai Mtawarira.
Coach : Heyneke Meyer.
Assistant : Rassie Erusmus.
Forwards : Gert Smal.
Backline : Carlos Spencer.
6 Jan 2012, 08:15 am
@Puma-87:
Always good thanks bud… trust you’ve had a good break and have a great 2012 too…!!
yeah… lambie is certainly being shafted by plumtree at this stage… he proved in the 2010 cc final how good he is… (and not just it that game…. he’s no one-game wonder…) it’s hardly his fault that thereafter plumtree brought in michalak… but he has done well for the boks when he has played and in whatever position he has played…
i don’t think it is therefore too much of a stretch to say that he would do very well at 10 for the boks… his preferred position… if as you say he was allowed to settle there… not only on the field but given the confidence boost of being told you are IT…!
it’s amazing how some players get months and even years… (spies) to fulfill their ‘potential’ but guys like lambie get one chance at 10 in a half-baked bok side and ‘experts’ are saying, “He was tried there and failed spectacularly every time.”
also… if he was given the kicking duties he’d be way more consistent… but he’s called on to kick after being subbed in the last few minutes and suddenly it’s him who has to take the pressure kicks…
seems some people just want to set him up for failure.. but imo his composure, intelligence, attitude, humility, commitment and ability… are worth long-term investment…
6 Jan 2012, 08:26 am
when you see how some of these young guys like jantjies, cooper, o’conner, any number of young ABs etc… let their sudden status and fame go to their heads and behave like jerks…
it speaks volumes about the guys character that lambie has remained so humble and grounded… that really impresses me…
before all the complaints from lions fans… yes… to be fair… after an initial dressing down by mitchell jantjies has pulled up his socks… so kudos to him and mitchell…
point being… lambie hasn’t needed to rukked right… so what we see from him is what he really is… a good kid… a good player… a good person…
6 Jan 2012, 08:28 am
Far too early to call. Halfway through the S15 we should start to see who the strongest candidate is. My guess is that it will be a two-horse race between Lambie and Jantjies. And whoever doesn’t make it, could cover flyhalf from the bench. Also too early to pick the fullback, although I can easily get used to the idea of Taute at 15. If he has a good S15, this might just happen. Slot Steyn in at 12 and we have the beginnings of a pretty decent backline with youth on their side.
6 Jan 2012, 08:30 am
@>^..^< katman-174:
a lot of sense in your post…
6 Jan 2012, 08:40 am
@>^..^< katman-174: Ed Zachery.
A few things come into considseration.
Who is fit and uninjured for example.
Who is on form and confident.
Elton strikes me as a confidence player, capable of amazing moves, and my instinctive favourite provided he’s in top form. Lambie for me is a very good, solid player and capable of very good things, and may be the “safer” choice in many respects.
I suspect that we haven’t seen the last of Morne Steyn though.
With Hougaard at 9 they will be playing a lot of rugby together in the Super comp and I’m keen to see how he does when he doesn’t have the Victor/Bakkies factor which made the forwards based game plan a no-brainer.
Now that he may not have the forward dominance that he had for much of his career i’m interested to see if the Bulls game plan will change and if he can adapt to that well.
As you say it will possible look a little different in May.
6 Jan 2012, 08:43 am
size matters.
6 Jan 2012, 08:48 am
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…-177: who are you referring to?
6 Jan 2012, 08:48 am
@ufo-175: Don’t speak too soon. The year is still young.
6 Jan 2012, 08:53 am
@stormersboy-176: I’m a fan of both Jantjies and Lambie. But the thing that bothers me (just a bit) about both is their lack of pace. Admittedly your flyhalf doesn’t have to be Habana quick, but guys like Carter and Cooper seem to have an extra yard of pace that makes their linebreaking so much more threatening.
6 Jan 2012, 08:55 am
@>^..^< katman-179:
huh…?
i’m agreeing with what you said… (and pissant said yesterday…)
6 Jan 2012, 08:59 am
@ufo-181: And I’m saying don’t get too used to the sense I posted there. By mid Feb I will have posted a whole heap of kak too.
6 Jan 2012, 09:02 am
@>^..^< katman-182:
hahaha…
okay cool…
i’m a bit slow after a few days off…
reckon we’ll all have posted heaps of poo by then…
6 Jan 2012, 09:07 am
@>^..^< katman-180: True, but they both seem to have enough pace over 20 – 30 meters, judging by some of the line breaks they’ve done, in particular Jantjies.
I like the way Jantjies takes his options with ball in hand. He also has very good balance which is good to watch.
i guess time will tell.
Thing is, I’m not against any of the candidates per se, and potential is one thing, but at the end of the day I’m sure that each will get their opportunity and whether they can make the most of it is really the key.
6 Jan 2012, 09:07 am
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…-177:
morne steyn 184 cm 90 kgs
elton jantjies 176 cm 84 kgs (on lions website but 91 kgs on others)
patrick lambie 177 cm 92 kgs
johan goosen 185 cm 88 kgs
so much of a muchness imo… swings and roundabouts… so in this case does size really count for much…?
6 Jan 2012, 09:08 am
I’m a big fan of Jantjies and I like Lambie but I think that boy (Goosen) from the Free State is going do to the business this year.
6 Jan 2012, 09:10 am
@ufo-173: i’m interested to hear how jantjies has “let fame go to his head”?
all i remember was him falsely implicated in the Os eoyt saga and when he missed a team appointment for the Lions on their overseas tour last year.
do you have other info that suggests that elton has been gassed by the “fame”?
6 Jan 2012, 09:14 am
@stormersboy-178:
i mean the whole composition of the backline and to an extent the team is predicated on such calculations.
how big is the 10
how big is the 9
how big are they relative to the 12 and 13
if 12 is big can 13 be small
can they all be small if 11 and 14 are too
can you have a small left wing and a small fullback
if you do you how big is the cover
how big are the opposition players head to head in each position compared to ours.
that sort of thing is obviously an important factor, its foolish to make believe it is not. rugby is a game that accomadates all types but at the end of the day a team of midgets will find out the meaning of life against a heavier, bigger unit.
with this in mind the new coach, whether conservative or revolutionary, will match other characteristics of the potential backline players to their physical size and this in turn to the rest of the backline players attributes as a whole.
i dont think any coach will ever depart from what has been a core strength of springbok rugby and which is well acknowledged by all opposition, namely: that we’re a big unit and we’re physical like no other… any team playing us always says this prematch and highlights it as a big factor in how they expect to play us.
if we’re going to go to running rugby with midgets (which is a sort of what oz is doing but who have ended up with an overall record that sucks more than ours and have no real guarantee it will in fact improve) then we must be prepared for a long period of hell and hard hidings while we travel the path to this promised land. oz has only beaten nz how many times in the last four years?
6 Jan 2012, 09:17 am
@ufo-185:
please refer post #185
6 Jan 2012, 09:20 am
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…-188: True, and as they say, a good big man is preferable to a good small man,
I’m not a big proponent of that at 10, provided his defensive skills are solid.
Hougaard is quite a big scrummie and there’ll be no issues on his size there.
Steyn is a really big guy at 12 so he’ll be perfect. He gets his hands through the tackle really well, and anyone with some pace on the outside, be it JF or JDJ will be fine.
6 Jan 2012, 09:21 am
@Transformation-187:
referring to mitchell dropping him for a while due to reported attitude problems… and then him improving in that area and doing very since then… as i acknowledged in my post saying to be fair he had improved since then…
6 Jan 2012, 09:23 am
@ufo-185:
you sold steyn short on a few kilo’s but hey…thats ok…
6 Jan 2012, 09:27 am
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…-189:
huh…?
i refer post #185… but see it was one of mine…
you mean 188…?
what you say is true… but i think with the four mentioned players the differences are not that great to warrant selecting our flyhalf based on the size of those around him…
let’s just pick the most in-form players based on current form… in the coming s15…
6 Jan 2012, 09:29 am
@Transformation-187:
i think he pulled a few minor guildford’s.
6 Jan 2012, 09:32 am
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…-192:
sheesh dude… so defensive…
i didn’t sell anyone short… simply took figures i could find on google…
could’ve left jantjiese at the weight given by the lions website but included his weight as reported on others too because they varied so much… would’ve done the same for steyn if i’d seen a variation in the few minutes i took to google each guy…
no agenda… just honestly tried to put their sizes in perspective…
6 Jan 2012, 09:34 am
work calls…
cheers all
6 Jan 2012, 09:36 am
@ufo-172: Howzit ufo, Yeah Lambie is a good youngster for sure. Your last paragraph sums it up well.
@ufo-191: You absolutely correct there. Mitchell dropped Elton last year in SuperRugby while on their overseas leg cause of some late night jolling. Well I read that on Sports24 at the time. But like you say Elton has turned that around in the CC. Good on him.
@ufo-173: Good post there bud. Agree with Lambie. He is a sensible youngster. Also has leadership qualities. I think he will be captain of the Sharks in about two years time.
6 Jan 2012, 09:36 am
@ufo-195:
no problem, just saying
6 Jan 2012, 09:37 am
I don’t see Steyn at much more than 90 kg’s. That’s actually a very decent weight for a flyhalf, especially given that he’s only a whisper over 6ft. tall….
6 Jan 2012, 09:37 am
@ufo-191: he was dropped for one game for missing a team appointment, so “for a while” is a bit misleading.
anyway i, personally wouldn’t put jantjies in the quade cooper, o’bieber, cipriani league of delinquents.
6 Jan 2012, 09:38 am
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…-194: rubbish
6 Jan 2012, 09:41 am
@Puma-197:
just saw your post as i was about to close my laptop…
thanks bud…
yeah as katman and pissant have said… let’s see how things evolve in the s15… i really don’t mind who get’s picked…
what’s bugging me is that lambie is not enjoying the same advantage as the others because plumtree keeps picking him all over the place… it will be really difficult for him to prove his case if he doesn’t play 10 for the sharks…
should lambie play flyhalf… and the other guys too… so we can judge them apples for apples… i’d be very happy with whichever of the four get selected…
i agree with you about his leadership potential too…
cheers now bud
gotta run
6 Jan 2012, 09:45 am
@ufo-202: Think Plum will select him at fh this year. With Freddie leaving in June doubt he will be our number one fh at the Sharks. Well hope not. Think it will be Lambie.
Agree now is too early to tell who will be fh. Have to wait until mid S15 to be sure.
Cheers ufo.
6 Jan 2012, 09:56 am
@Transformation-201:
fair enough.
i was under the impression he had but it could be a made up story.
6 Jan 2012, 10:02 am
@Puma-203:
Howzit boet,all the best for 2012.
6 Jan 2012, 10:08 am
SA
9. Hougaard
10. Lambie
12. F Steyn
AUS
9. Genia
10. Cooper
12. O connor
Now those would be exciting combos to watch
6 Jan 2012, 10:20 am
@Fern is not a stud,he is merely no19-205: Howzit Fern. How you doing bud?
All the best to you too for 2012.
Also all the best to our Sharks as well for 2012…
6 Jan 2012, 10:22 am
@Bok fan-206: Yeah those combos would be very exciting.
Though in the wc thought Cooper was not great at all.
6 Jan 2012, 10:38 am
rugby is a weird game, every year someone is calling for the IRB to sort out an aspect of the game – breakdown, scrums. they will be tinkering with the laws of this game ’til kingdom come.
IRB must sort scrum
Friday, 30 December 2011 9:11 a.m.
At a time of year when it is customary to make resolutions for the 12 months ahead one can only hope that those in charge of rugby are tasking themselves with sorting out the shambles that the scrum has become.
The set-piece has given the game some of its most iconic figures, from the revered Pontypool front row of Charlie Faulkner, Bobby Windsor and Graham Price, Ireland stalwart Ray McLoughlin and Scotland hero Sandy Carmichel right through to modern day prop idols such as Adam Jones and Tony Woodcock.
But the worth of Jones and company is being increasingly eroded by the frustrating trend for scrum engagements to follow a pattern of ‘crouch, touch, pause…collapse’.
A staggering 54 percent of scrums during the 2011 Six Nations ended in a crumpled mass of bodies on the deck.
It is not as though this is a new phenomenon.
Over the past three seasons the amount of time spent setting and re-setting scrums has often eaten up as much as 10-15 minutes of game time, but the recent Ospreys v Saracens Heineken Cup contest at the Liberty Stadium offered a stark illustration of just how bad things have become.
What should have been a gripping European contest instead turned in to a mind-numbing sequence of collapsed scrums, with referee Jerome Garces appearing to have little understanding of what was unfolding in front of him, leading him to award penalties on a ***-for-tat basis, much to the bemusement of the six international front-rowers in the starting line-ups.
Eleven of the first 12 scrums resulted in penalties or free-kicks, 14 of the game’s 26 penalties originated at the scrum and it left the respective coaches questioning the very future of the forward contest.
Ospreys coach Sean Holley said: “I don’t where we are going with the scrum. Nobody knows what is going on there and it’s frustrating for players and fans and I don’t know what else to say. Are we better off not having scrums?”
The scrum should represent a great attacking situation given that the defensive side are now stationed five metres behind the back foot in order to allow more space for the side in possession, but the current impasse has led some sides to all but do away with preparing set moves, because they simply do not expect the scrum to be completed cleanly.
“In the old days you used to practice scrum moves but coaches have stopped doing that as there is a free-kick or penalty at every scrum so there is no need for those moves,” said Sarries boss Mark McCall.
Sadly there is no easy solution to the problem, mainly because only members of the front-row union have a genuine knowledge of what goes on in the darkest of rugby arts.
There is a school of thought that the engagement sequence is too drawn out, all also varies in pace from official to official, leading to any number of early engagements and collapses as sides look to win the all-important hit.
Some feel the skin-tight shirts worn by players make it almost impossible for props to bind on their opposite number, or that the sheer physical build of the modern player means scrums are naturally more unstable.
Whether it is any one of these reasons, or a combination of factors, it is an issue that the International Rugby Board must look to address sooner rather than later.
It will do the game’s image the power of good among supporters – it is hard to imagine many of those at the Liberty Stadium two weeks ago clamouring to watch a repeat.
Rugby needs the sight of strong scrummaging contests, where the dominant pack is rewarded, to become the norm rather than the exception.
Otherwise the skill and technique of the likes of Jones and Woodcock will be lost to a generation of rugby fans.
6 Jan 2012, 10:42 am
the fact that so many spots up for grabs and a new coach will make super 15 very interesting indeed.
6 Jan 2012, 11:16 am
There’s nothing worse than moobs on a man …… Kallis.
6 Jan 2012, 11:24 am
@grant10-210: that one wicket from tahir in the 1st innings was superb, he needs to be more consitent.
6 Jan 2012, 11:26 am
@Puma-208: Ja wasnt his usual self, WC can get to a lot of players. I was impressed with his BMT in the Super 15 final and Tri nations decider though
6 Jan 2012, 11:35 am
@Bok fan-213: he had a shocking RWC, ireland made him look ordinary. with a dominant pack he looks flash but when his forwards were taking strain he didn’t switch the gameplan, he continued to want to run and messed up as a result.
6 Jan 2012, 11:39 am
@Transformation-212: yes….I think we have a gem in Tahir…..he will only get better imo
6 Jan 2012, 11:40 am
we need to break this bloody partnership!
6 Jan 2012, 11:41 am
Cooper and Jantjies in the same mould. On their day they can be brilliant, but on their off day they are terrible.
Lambie and Carter is the steady players that almost never have a bad game, but not as exciting.
6 Jan 2012, 11:45 am
@Mr Black-217: there’s no justification for the carter/lambie comparisons…lambie is nowhere near carter’s talent.
that’s not to say he doesn’t possess any talent but he is no daniel carter. he had games in the s15 where he was nowhere but because he is not expected to be flash he slips past the criticism.
6 Jan 2012, 11:48 am
@Transformation-218:
Rubbish
6 Jan 2012, 11:57 am
Was Tahir auditioning for next Tarzan movie after one wicket yesterday
Chest-thumping eedjit
Or was he a soccer player in a previous life.
6 Jan 2012, 12:01 pm
@Transformation-218:
thats nonsense.
6 Jan 2012, 12:02 pm
@Dawn-220:
He is trying to hard imo to fit in with the SA players.
6 Jan 2012, 12:04 pm
Have not seen such celebration and running to boundary after one wicket yet in all cricket I have watched.
**** style.
6 Jan 2012, 12:04 pm
@Mr Black-219: pinpoint one game where lambie was outstanding, running plays, attacking the gain line, offloading, kicking for touch superbly, basically where he even tried to match the currie cup final performance.
i understand the guppys game is based on dom crashball all day tactics which sort of limit lambie’s time on the ball but hey he is NOT carter-esque.
6 Jan 2012, 12:08 pm
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…-221: um, great argument
6 Jan 2012, 12:08 pm
@Transformation-224:
Take off your transformation eye patches and watch him play. Carter was no better than what he (Lambie) is at same stage of their careers.
6 Jan 2012, 12:10 pm
@Dawn-223: check boom boom afridi’s theatrics and understand where it comes from.
6 Jan 2012, 12:11 pm
@Mr Black-226: please, carter was sublime. you’re not going very far in justifying your comparison though, i like that
6 Jan 2012, 12:14 pm
@Transformation-228:
Sublime my as_s.
You’re confused Transie.
6 Jan 2012, 12:15 pm
Just joking Transie.
He is not Carter yet.
Cheers, outahere.
6 Jan 2012, 12:16 pm
This is brilliant previously we were told on here that Steyn was as good if not better than Carter, we all know how that one worked out, now Lambie is right up there after 2.5 tests and lets not forget all the SA fans telling us Cooper was also better than Carter. When Lambie plays a game like the 2nd Lions test in 05′ ( the perfect game by a 10) then we can start making some comparisions.
6 Jan 2012, 12:17 pm
P a k i !!!!!
6 Jan 2012, 12:19 pm
@Transformation-225:
he’s barely had two season of rugby yet, in a single position and / or injury free.
carter had one or two kak seasons with the crusaders too in the beginning.
they did not win anything and he did certainly not look flash mr cash.
did you call him out as the most complete thing back then?
well, nobody did.
@Mr Black-226:
my point exactly.
he may in fact with time prove to be nowhere as good as carter but its still presumptuous to say he wont until he has the chance to try.
6 Jan 2012, 12:23 pm
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…-233:
was it one or two seasons, which year? Carters name was doing the rounds a long long time before he made the Crusaders
6 Jan 2012, 12:29 pm
@Mr Black-229: don’t worry about me, focus on shoring up your comparison tl tl tl
6 Jan 2012, 12:30 pm
@NZINCHINA-234:
he barely at flyhalf for those two seasons.
the crusaders won nothing in 2003, 2004
6 Jan 2012, 12:32 pm
@Transformation-227:
no comparison – afridi is a narcissistic poser.
too cool to dash around with juvenile enthusiasm
6 Jan 2012, 12:32 pm
played at flyhalf
6 Jan 2012, 12:34 pm
@Dawn-211: I reckon a p.enis on a woman is marginally worse. But it’s subjective, I guess.
6 Jan 2012, 12:34 pm
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…-233: are you also comparing lambie to carter? because i can tell you right now james o’connor made far more an impact in the game than lambie or jantjies have and he was also moved from pillar to post.
it is premature to liken lambie to carter the way mr black did.
6 Jan 2012, 12:34 pm
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…-236:
Merhts was there from memory, they made the final in 03′ and were just beaten at the garden of Eden by an Auckland side with Sir Graham as the “technical director” for a moment I thought you mean’t they picked up the wooden spoon.
6 Jan 2012, 12:36 pm
It is difficult to guess who will play in what position, as we don’t even know who the coach is yet. If it is Heineke it will be Steyn, if Smal it could be Jantjes or Goosen and if it is Coetzee it could even be Grant or Catrikilis. Only once we know who the prophet of doom is, will we get a clearer picture of his team.
6 Jan 2012, 12:38 pm
Crikey they made the final in 04′ to what you on about son?
6 Jan 2012, 12:47 pm
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…-236: canterbury won the NPC in 2004, get your facts straight.
i didn’t compare lambie to carter, mr black did! my contention is that lambie hasn’t played enough rugby to be likened to carter in any way! people are quick to say “he is as steady as carter” yet in the same breath want to say “carter was erratic in ’03 & ’04″
6 Jan 2012, 12:50 pm
@Transformation-240:
no transie, you’re the one who said lambie is not comparable to carter at a similar point in his career and thats nonsense.
carter was a centre and sometimes a flyhalf and was not god’s gift to rugby for the most part initially, thats all i’m trying to say.
lambie has only had two seasons with injury and positional switches to boot and as well as being younger than carter was. he may or may not prove to be a good player but you’re still being presumtuous.
@NZINCHINA-241:
again, you’re so one-eyed you’ve missed the point.
this is not about carter.
this is not about the crusaders.
this is about lambie and whether he can be compared to carter after a similar period of time, namely: two years. carter really started coming into ‘completeness’ perhaps from 205 onwards, with a few blips here and there.
my point is about lambie and whether he can written off as not being comparable to carter at the start of his career.
if you keep this up i will award YOU wooden spoon
6 Jan 2012, 12:52 pm
Carter has played two or three off test matches in is whole career, Lambie is a talent but won’t emulate DC he’s got far too many runs on the board.
6 Jan 2012, 12:52 pm
@NZINCHINA-243:
please refer post #245
get your hat out your asse, sir
6 Jan 2012, 12:53 pm
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…-245:
cmon buddy you through out the speculator and were proved wrong DC has never had an off season
6 Jan 2012, 12:55 pm
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…-245: you see now, you are talking rubbish…this was my reply to mr black, please point out where i said such!
218.Transformation said:
6 Jan 2012, 11:45 am
@Mr Black-217: there’s no justification for the carter/lambie comparisons…lambie is nowhere near carter’s talent.
that’s not to say he doesn’t possess any talent but he is no daniel carter. he had games in the s15 where he was nowhere but because he is not expected to be flash he slips past the criticism.
6 Jan 2012, 12:57 pm
i’m pretty sure people said carter was steady, at the least, in 2003 and 2004.
still they won nothing at the crusaders and he was not being called ‘greatest most complete’ yet. that came later.
lambie at the least is steady, at this point in his career.
i am not saying he will go on to become ‘greatest most complete’ as a matter of course.
6 Jan 2012, 13:02 pm
@Transformation-249:
please refer post #250
@NZINCHINA-248:
are you mental?
i never said he had an off season.
i am saying he did not blow the world up in 2003 and 2004 but was steady and his game grew from there.
oh and, dan cater was not expected to win the wc in 2003 but he certainly was in 2007…
6 Jan 2012, 13:05 pm
Wow Jackman looks lke an old soak
6 Jan 2012, 13:09 pm
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…-251:
carter had one or two kak seasons with the crusaders too in the beginning
sorry my mistake does kak mean good in SA?
6 Jan 2012, 13:19 pm
@NZINCHINA-253:
in this instance it means ‘steady’.
this is to say he was not the ‘greatest most complete player’ yet in the 2003, 2004 sr seasons (certainly not as a flyhalf because he hardly played as a flyhalf) but he certainly was steady and showed the potential to become the great player he would go on to be, in time.
lambie similarly, can be said to be steady after his fisrt two seasons in sr rugby.
does he show potential to go on to become great? = yes
will he in fact go on to become great? = i dont know for sure and do think he could but i will not be presumptuous to say otherwise.
6 Jan 2012, 13:30 pm
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…-254:
agreed he does have the potential to become a great player , looks like he’ll get shuffled around at the Sharks and for SA too much though to settle into one position and nail that as his own
6 Jan 2012, 13:38 pm
@NZINCHINA-255:
Shuffling around should make a player more adept at those positions. It works in the player’s favour.
Brent Russell should have stuck around as he would have slotted in well with Aplon as a super sub.
6 Jan 2012, 13:42 pm
@Groot Wit Baas-256:
maybe but we are talking about becoming an all time great like Carter as a 10, surely he needs to nail one position and make it his own
6 Jan 2012, 13:44 pm
@NZINCHINA-255:
yes, it has been looking that way.
the good thing for him at the sharks is freddy is going to toulon so that should leave the path clear for him to get sustained game time provided he steps up.
as regards the boks, well thats a whole other complication which may well turn into a shuffle around for him. till the new coach comes its hard ro say.
6 Jan 2012, 13:47 pm
@NZINCHINA-257:
For sure! To be spoken about as the best, you need to knuckle down and play in that position. The problem with many SA sides is that we shunt our guys from pillar to post. The Sharks are very good with that and Province often do the same. The Bulls too have been playing guys out of position. It even happens in the Bok setup too. Smit at prop, Lambie at 10 and 15, Styen at 10,12,15; Morne at 10, 15, etc etc…
6 Jan 2012, 13:59 pm
@NZINCHINA-257:
@Bill Reyts-259:
yes, i too think its perhaps best to knuckle down, especiallly certain positions like 10.
i think utility players are themselves a specialised skill which requires a type of player who can knuckle down in the business of being a utiity player exclusively and understand his riole as such. this may and does feature a lot of bench sitting and filling in where and when needed.
6 Jan 2012, 14:06 pm
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…-260:
Yeah, the problem is you become known as just that! A good utility player, not a great 10 or 15. I’m from the old stock and believe you specialise and replace a player with another specialist if injured. The utility player should always warm the bench.
6 Jan 2012, 14:19 pm
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…-250: “i’m pretty sure people said carter was steady, at the least, in 2003 and 2004.”
how can you be “pretty sure” about something you have no evidence on?
“Lambie and Carter is the steady players that almost neverhave a bad game, but not as exciting.”
are you also in agreement that lambie in his short first class rugby career also “almost never has a bad game”?
6 Jan 2012, 14:24 pm
@Bill Reyts-261: the old stock that would’ve never played israel dagg, richard kahui or corey jane @ wing? hhmm
6 Jan 2012, 14:27 pm
@Bill Reyts-261: adam ashley-cooper is a “utility player” and he starts for both franchise and country. hhmm
6 Jan 2012, 14:27 pm
@Transformation-263:
Aha!
6 Jan 2012, 14:40 pm
@Transformation-262:
the crusaders won nothing in 2003 and 2004.
the all blacks lost a wc in 2003 and a tri nations in 2004.
ok then, i will be presumptuous enough to say that back then people said he was steady but did not say he was the greatest. and i state this as a fact.
do not ask me to furnish proof of my facts…
lambie has barely had any games for that matter in order for him to be judged on whether they were ‘almost never bad or good’.
naughty transie….
@Bill Reyts-261:
i would not want to be a utility player on your team
6 Jan 2012, 14:42 pm
@Bill Reyts-259: @au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…-260:
He’d have to better then Steyn so I say give him a crack
@Transformation-263:
They played out of position because the coaches thought they had better players in their favoured positions.
6 Jan 2012, 14:44 pm
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…-266:
Yes but they did make two finals in a row, how many teams have done that?
In 2003 we slaughtered you at Loftus and narrowly missed out on the Tri nations.
6 Jan 2012, 14:46 pm
in 04′
6 Jan 2012, 14:48 pm
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…-266: “lambie has barely had any games for that matter in order for him to be judged on whether they were ‘almost never bad or good’.”
so i guess it is also safe to say the limited number of games lambie has had prevents the likes of Mr Black from likening him to carter, no?
6 Jan 2012, 14:54 pm
@NZINCHINA-267: hhmm, kahui & jane were chosen to play wing before out-and-out wingers like hosea gear, sivivatu, rokocoko. in bill reyts’ “old stock” mind that situation would’ve never happened as he “believe you specialise and replace a player with another specialist if injured. The utility player should always warm the bench.”
thus he would’ve found other form wings in NZ to start before playing kahui, jane & dagg.
6 Jan 2012, 14:55 pm
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…-266:
You would warm the bench mate!
6 Jan 2012, 14:59 pm
@Transformation-271:
Guys play well week in and week out in their positions and someone gets injured and think – wow here is my chance as I’m the next best! It is very demotivating to players when guys are chosen in those positions when they don’t play regularly in them. Rightly or wrongly I feel for the guys. As a professional you are striving for higher honours, only to be ignored for centres who are put on the wings.
6 Jan 2012, 15:03 pm
@Transformation-271:
Two classy players hard to leave out, Jane in that semi was unbelievable must have been the night out on the sauce
6 Jan 2012, 15:05 pm
Tranny you’d be looking forward to seeing Dagg this year he’s gonna carve them up
6 Jan 2012, 15:05 pm
@Bill Reyts-273: feelings aside. are the players BETTER than the centre at wing? the Stormers played sadie at wing against the crusaders last year, where were the jj engelbrechts, poolmans of WP?
and sadie performed well that day making 2 line breaks & about 4 off-loads.
leave sentiment out of it old bean
6 Jan 2012, 15:09 pm
@NZINCHINA-274: exactly, kiwi booze is potent
even Bill Reyts would be hardpressed to find a wing in new zealand who would’ve outplayed jane in that semi-final.
6 Jan 2012, 15:14 pm
@Transformation-276:
Yeah they even played JdV there. I agree Kahui and Jane are class personified. Jane was awesome in the semi-final.
@Transformation-276:
Hey who is your old bean?
Imagine your son, your cousin, your brother being ignored to play for higher honours because jack of all trades is chosen before him…
6 Jan 2012, 15:18 pm
@NZINCHINA-268: @NZINCHINA-269:
yes but the english moered you at home in 2003
and we gave you 44-26 the next year.
6 Jan 2012, 15:18 pm
So the Lankans prevent an innings defeat! Proteas need two to win…
6 Jan 2012, 15:19 pm
Johannesburg – Toulon lock Bakkies Botha has called on French officials to judge him on his actions, not his supposed reputation for being a dirty player.
The Springbok veteran made his Top 14 debut last weekend in Toulon’s 25-6 defeat to relegation-threatened Biarritz having arrived in France following the World Cup to start a three-year deal with RCT.
Despite his colourful disciplinary record, the 32-year-old insists that his love for the physical side of the game does not necessarily make him a villain.
“I am not a thug. I love the battle, that’s all,” the 76-Test cap second rower told Midi Olympique.
Botha used two anecdotes from his past to illustrate how his reputation has a habit of proceeding him.
“I was given a three-week suspension a few years ago for pushing (Australia flank) Phil Waugh at a ruck,” he explained.
“When it came to the disciplinary hearing, the judge asked me how many times I had been cited in my life. I told the truth – once. He did not believe me and asked me if I had personal problems, if I hit my kids… It was ridiculous.
“People are wrong about me. I do not eat children.
“In the Currie Cup my opponents use to target me. One day, (Sharks lock) AJ Venter was trying to make me lose my temper. At every scrum (referee) Craig Joubert was saying to me: ‘Stay with me, Bakkies. Nothing will happen to you.’”
Botha has made helping Toulon qualify for the Heineken Cup his primary target and hopes to repay the faith put in him by club president Mourad Boudjellal.
“I want Toulon to qualify for the Heineken Cup next year. I want to be part of that success,” he explained.
“Four years ago, I was on the verge of signing with Toulon. However, we couldn’t break my contract with the Bulls and it ended in court where I lost.
“So I was delighted when Mourad Boudjellal came after me again two years later. That tells me that he is a man of his word. Last year, I had other contract offers in Europe but I chose Toulon out of respect for him.”
6 Jan 2012, 15:24 pm
@Transformation-270:
no, the number of games has been enough to say he is, at the very least, steady.
6 Jan 2012, 15:30 pm
Sydney – Speculation that Sonny Bill Williams is poised for a return to the NRL has increased after the All Blacks star was spotted on Thursday with Sydney Roosters supremo Nick Politis at a harbourside cafe.
According to the stuff.co.nz website, also present were Channel Nine boss David Gyngell and Williams’s manager Khoder Nasser.
Williams, 26, who is in Sydney to prepare for his February 8 New Zealand heavyweight title bout against Richard Tutaki, has been linked with a move to the Roosters for some time.
A clause in his deed of release from the Bulldogs, prohibiting him from playing with a rival NRL club, expires this year. Williams is also off-contract with the New Zealand Rugby Union at the end of the season after recently re-signing for 12 months.
After living in Sydney for seven years while playing for the Bulldogs, it is thought Williams feels as much at home in the city as he does in his native Auckland.
6 Jan 2012, 15:35 pm
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…-282: but not enough to say if he was bad or good in those games?
hehehe go tell that to the hunchbacks my friend…
6 Jan 2012, 15:37 pm
@Bill Reyts-280:
stupid smith.
he’s an fbc for sure.
@mvk-281:
i think thats an old interview he gave that sport24 has rehashed.
6 Jan 2012, 15:45 pm
@Transformation-284:
would you characterise his time so far as steady? hmmmm?
do you mean the hobbits?
6 Jan 2012, 15:49 pm
@ufo-283:
the khodder nasser looks like one big dirty piece of sshit to me. i would never do business with him. if i did at some point i can see myself sticking a shotgun in his face and saying: ‘where’s my money you kunnt!’…
i think thats him in black with the cap.
6 Jan 2012, 15:51 pm
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…-285:
Yeah the FBC is everywhere in South Africa mate!!!
Is very strong in the cricket team too… Bouch; Jacques, AB, Graeme
6 Jan 2012, 16:05 pm
It’s also prevalent on keo….
6 Jan 2012, 16:06 pm
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…-285: could be that they just added a few new lines to an old article…..and then these journos wonder why the mighty anc government wants to improve the standard of journalism in this country.
6 Jan 2012, 16:17 pm
@mvk-290:
mighty..?..
mighty useless more like it.
6 Jan 2012, 16:22 pm
if the anc were a rugby team who would they be?
italy?
scotland?
japan?
hmmmm thats harder than i thought.
6 Jan 2012, 16:25 pm
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…-291: i see on iol that your people has got themselves a nice whites only campsite going in east london,eastern cape.
6 Jan 2012, 16:32 pm
@mvk-293:
alright then, perhaps i should not have posted about politics.
lets just stay on topic.
which centers around sport… mostly rugby….
6 Jan 2012, 16:36 pm
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…-294: ok.if the boks were a real rugby team they might have challenged the mighty all blacks for the wee little trophy last year.hmmmm…..on second thought lets rather not go there.
6 Jan 2012, 16:47 pm
@mvk-295:
i read the article.
it is regrettable and sad, especially when its children who are affected.
i’m sure its grounds for criminal prosecution though.
the boks are a real rugby team.
they were the reigning champions going into it.
they’ve consistently been in the top three of the best teams in the world for about a hundred years.
6 Jan 2012, 16:55 pm
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…-296: i consider the cobras cricket team as the only truly transformed sports team in this country.
6 Jan 2012, 16:58 pm
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…-296: “right of admission reserved”
surely that is still applicable wrt private establishments?
6 Jan 2012, 16:59 pm
@mvk-297: cobras, why? hehehe
6 Jan 2012, 17:02 pm
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…-296: what do you expect from a backward province?
6 Jan 2012, 17:07 pm
@Transformation-298:
i dont think you can reserve admission on the grounds of race though, even if a private establishment.
can you?
6 Jan 2012, 17:08 pm
i have to go
will check back later
cheers
6 Jan 2012, 17:14 pm
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…-301: legally no but then we arer talking about that doomed province the eastern cape here.the white are simply just following the shining example set by their black brothers and sisters.in any case if these super blacks can have exclusive organisations like the black management forum and others why can’t whites not socialise with their own kind?
6 Jan 2012, 17:48 pm
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…-292:
The Cheetahs. Every year they promise so much but deliver fokkol.
6 Jan 2012, 19:08 pm
@mvk-303:
look, i’m pretty sure the establishment is going to get into a some trouble now and that in itself is a sign of how far we’ve come as a nation.
stop living in the past.
@Groot Wit Baas-304:
eish,
thats a little hard hard on the cheetahs, man.
they cant be that bad.
7 Jan 2012, 03:44 am
@Groot Wit Baas-304:
The Cheetahs have done well with the lack of depth and injuries
Remember Juan and Brussow were injured for long periods
Super 15 team to watch
LIONS
7 Jan 2012, 04:02 am
How about this backline?
15. Taute
14 JPP
13 JF (If still able to be selected)
12 F Steyn
11 Sadie
10 Jantjies/Lambie and maybe Goosen (depends on super 15 showing)
9. Hougaard
Except for the 2 10s all big strong and fast
7 Jan 2012, 10:45 am
EISH !!!!!!!!! We have just had the race card thrown at us for trying to stop the KZN tosser that paid nearly a million bucks to shoot an endangered white rhino, the guy said we were doing it to stop a poor black community from getting the money…….I mean realllllllllllllllyyyyyyy
7 Jan 2012, 11:19 am
@Treehugger-308: You whiteys obviously don’t understand the dynamic
7 Jan 2012, 11:23 am
@stormersboy-309: lol, my friend that handles the press and such reckons the guy most probably suffers from some sort of pen!s malfunction and wants to try the Chinese cure
7 Jan 2012, 13:24 pm
@Treehugger-310: I think he suffers from some brain malfunction more like.
7 Jan 2012, 16:04 pm
@stormersboy-311:
7 Jan 2012, 19:08 pm
This place is like a morgue in January!
8 Jan 2012, 07:19 am
Ratings for the REAL contenders at 10 (Rating followed by possible improvement):
Steyn
Offense: 6 (1)
Defence: 5 (1)
Open play: 6 (1)
Goal Kicking: 10 (0)
Total: 27 (Potential: 30)
Jantjes:
Offense: 7 (1)
Defence: 6 (2)
Open play: 7 (1)
Goal Kicking: 8 (2)
Total: 28 (Potential: 34)
Lambie:
Offense: 8 (1)
Defence: 8 (0)
Open play: 7 (1)
Goal Kicking: 7 (2)
Total: 30 (Potential: 34)
8 Jan 2012, 10:07 am
@Heavens Game-314:
wow!
dont hold back in your making up stats.
on what do you base these values?
is it aggregated on actual numbers of tackles, linebreaks and kicks made /taken by the players and has it been recorded by a reputable stats entity?
8 Jan 2012, 10:14 am
Lambie still has a lot of improving to do in 2012. He’s already playing quite good rugby so hoping he hits better form this year.
The Sharks need more stability in the midfield if they hope to remain competitive in the Super 15. Teams like the mangy Lions will overtake them if there has been zero focus on glaring weaknesses which were so obvious last year.
8 Jan 2012, 10:48 am
Lambie is so young and is not the finished product…..all the potential is there for him to be great. He has the right temperament and that cannot be trained into a person, for that reason i would put him ahead of anyone else.
8 Jan 2012, 10:53 am
@Treehugger-317:
Spot on.
8 Jan 2012, 11:11 am
@Great White Shark-318: Happy New year GWS…..hope you have had a relaxing time with your family and friends.
8 Jan 2012, 11:44 am
@Treehugger-317: Good post Hugs,
Also has great leadership qualities. See he also captained the SA Schools cricket side. In matric Lambie captained the rugby and cricket side at Michael house and was the Head Prefect there. That speaks volumes of his leadership qualities. I have no doubt he will captain the Sharks in a few years time.
8 Jan 2012, 11:44 am
@Treehugger-317: Happy New Year to you Hugs. All the best for 2012.
8 Jan 2012, 11:47 am
@Great White Shark-316: I just hope that Plum don’t select Bosman and Joubert. Remember we have Whitehead now. With Jordaan and Mjekevu also training with the Sharks. Think we will be a lot better in our midfield this year if Plum selects the right players there.
Where we may struggle is at 4. Pity we let Mostert go.
8 Jan 2012, 11:53 am
@Treehugger-319:
Thanks Treehugger. Had an awesome time. Took the kids on their first little holiday down to Southbroom for a week.
When little one turns four we’re going to Disneyland. Should be a good one.
8 Jan 2012, 11:54 am
@Puma-322:
Puma I am quite excited to see what those youngsters can ignite in the midfield.
8 Jan 2012, 11:57 am
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…-315: “Wow!”, cleverdick. Where does it say “stats” in my post?
1st Key word is “Rating”…
Which means it is subjective, of course.
But instead of me saying X is a “well rounded” 10 or Y is a “kicking” 10, I have attempted to deviate from normal Saffa dull orthodoxy and plumb for something different.
i.e. Numbers that demonstrate my relative opinion of the three 10s in different categories.
Get that?
8 Jan 2012, 12:02 pm
@Great White Shark-324: I am excited to see those youngsters play as well.
Would like to see Jordaan at 12 with Mjekevu at 13. Don’t even mind Whitehead starting. Think we gonna be okay at midfield with those players. We still have to sign Mjekevu so hope we do.
Not so sure about Deysel at 4. Wish we never let Mostert go.
Have you ever been to Disneyland bud? Heck it is awesome. I went in my 40′s and felt like a great big kid……..hahahaha.
All the best to you too buddy for 2012.
Cheers out of here now, we off to lunch.
8 Jan 2012, 12:02 pm
@Heavens Game-314: Now expanding on my earlier post, the benchmark current Flyhalves for each category are:
Offense: Carter
Defence: Wilkinson
Open play: Cooper
Goal Kicking: Steyn
And Voila… Orthodox “imaginations” run riot….
8 Jan 2012, 12:03 pm
Great White Shark,
Before I go. Would like to see Lambie at 10 with those other youngsters starting. We will have a good backline this year.
Like I said a bit worried at lock.
8 Jan 2012, 12:04 pm
@Heavens Game-327: Before I log off. All the best to you buddy for 2012.
8 Jan 2012, 12:06 pm
@Puma-329: You too Puma. May 2012 surpass 2011.
8 Jan 2012, 12:46 pm
Guppy bum-chums in a round circle of lambie punting
8 Jan 2012, 13:25 pm
Lambie is about 4th in line as best option for Bok 10
Most promising all round potential for complete No.10 is Johan Goosen hands down
Then comes
Jantjies
Ebersohn
Van Aswegen
Lambie
Fouche
Cronje
Watts
Katrakillis
Francis
and this list does not include
Steyn, Grant, James, Potgieter
8 Jan 2012, 14:03 pm
Lambie is a 15, not a 10. As much as he was wants to play 10. Besides, he peformed well there during the WC and there is less competition in the position. Situation resolved.
Even Frans Steyn considers himself a 10 and wants to play there although his future is at 12. That is where he offers better value to the Boks.
Johan Goosen and Elton are probably the front runners for the Bok no. 10 slot right now, but we’ll have a clearer picture at the end of March, I reckon.
Morne Steyn has had his opportunties already.
8 Jan 2012, 14:04 pm
Bok squad 2012
Taute, Viljoen
Mapoe, Aplon
De Jongh, Sadie
Steyn, Lambie
Engelbrecht, Basson
Goosen, Jantjies
Hougaard, Duvenhage
Botha, Spies
Coetsee, Alberts, Kolisi
Minnie, Brussow
Bekker, Kruger
Van der Merwe, Strauss
Oosthuizen, Geldenhuys, Kruger
Du Plessis, Maku, Strauss, Ralepele
Gerber, Steenkamp, Mtwarira
8 Jan 2012, 14:30 pm
lambie will probably spend quite a bit of time at 12 in the beginning of the seaso learning from the frog.
this is awesome.
then he will move to 10 and hopefully fransie will return.
come back fransie, we need you bud, you are a sharks hero!
8 Jan 2012, 14:58 pm
@Puma-321: to you as well Puma,sending you a huge hug !!!
@Great White Shark-323: am glad to hear that, I am sure your tots witll love Disney world.
8 Jan 2012, 15:01 pm
@Transformation-331: Why do most of you always have a hard on for us Shark supporters, we are supporters (notice the word) so naturally if we think our guy has the good we will say so.
8 Jan 2012, 15:01 pm
thats goods
8 Jan 2012, 18:54 pm
@Treehugger-337: you must be missing gunther if what you have on your mind are “hard-ons”
keep your shark panties on, he should be back fron arniston this week
8 Jan 2012, 19:06 pm
@Puma-326:
I can’t say I would do it otherwise until I’ve seen the boys play some rugger in those positions.
Deysel and a few other locks STILL need to prove themselves and the loose forwards were pathetic against the mangy Lions in the CC final. There is a lot to play for in this Super 15…
Never been to the USA so looking forward to it in a few years.
8 Jan 2012, 21:02 pm
@339…seems u hv issues, maybe try growing up a little.
8 Jan 2012, 21:37 pm
@Treehugger-341: tee hee hee
don’t be mad.
8 Jan 2012, 21:59 pm
@ashampoopaloo-334: Let’s hope not. Too many players out of position and few undeserved.
8 Jan 2012, 22:03 pm
@Treehugger-341:
Same old comments by the same old bloggers. We better hope The Sharks perform so that we can brag again.
8 Jan 2012, 22:08 pm
have much respect for lambie. steyn to mentor lambie @ 10.
ruan no loss, jantje’s to be back on the reseve bench for the boks
super rugby will seperate the men from the boys and give a better idea of who the new talent is.
8 Jan 2012, 22:14 pm
@Treehugger-341:
you too would have issues if you supported the ep
8)
8 Jan 2012, 23:14 pm
@charo-346: lol…touché
8)
9 Jan 2012, 05:53 am
They’re all a bunch of proven LEMONS
9 Jan 2012, 10:39 am
In an ideal world this article is all good and dandie, but reality is a new coach will come in with wonderful ideas about talking the team to the next level, then he’ll lose a couple games and reporters like the very one who wrote the article will ridicule and tell everyone how far off the boks are forcing him to go back to our dull short sighted brand of rugby we have been playing for decades. Our brand of rugby needs to change at club, currie cup and super rugby levels before we can implement it at the highest level.
9 Jan 2012, 10:39 am
In an ideal world this article is all good and dandie, but reality is a new coach will come in with wonderful ideas about talking the team to the next level, then he’ll lose a couple games and reporters like the very one who wrote the article will ridicule and tell everyone how far off the boks are forcing him to go back to our dull short sighted brand of rugby we have been playing for decades. Our brand of rugby needs to change at club, currie cup and super rugby levels before we can implement it at the highest level.
9 Jan 2012, 12:43 pm
@Groot Wit Baas-304: LOL! Other than the Bulls (and Lions almost 15 years ago), none of the teams have delivered. What exactly has the Sharks or Stormers done?
Oh right. Stormers has a “better luck next year, thanks for coming”-trophy from last year.
10 Jan 2012, 01:38 am
A backline with Hougaard, Jantjies, De Jongh, Sadie, Aplon, Habana and Lambie would get run over by any international team. A few smaller players in the backline are fine, but too many and you have lost the game before you have even kicked off.
10 Jan 2012, 01:54 am
@garth-352: its not the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog.
or to put it in a wisemans words…big tree, small axe.
10 Jan 2012, 02:51 am
100%, but too many small guys would leave us defensively vulnerable. I know the small guys can tackle, but they seldom put someone on their arse. A balance of larger players with some smaller players with flair would be better. It’s all about getting the balance right. I’d go for something like:
15. Lambie
14. JP
13. Sadie
12. Steyn
11. Engelbrecht
10. Goosen
9. Hougaard
8. Alberts
7. Burger
6. Brussouw
5. Bekker
4. Smith
3. Jannie
2. Bismarck
1. Beast
10 Jan 2012, 03:10 am
@garth-354: dont know goosen but definately a good side.
gotta disagree though about size but as a general statement you are correct. still little guys in the past have been big defenders (carter, cullen, lambie, tonyBrown, samTuitupou…obviously i’m a keewee) but they are rare
i assume thats Frans Steyn @ 12. no room for morne?
i’d trial lambie at 10. was real impressed with him at the WC. he stood out so much more than he did at super level. 10 has the same skill set as 15 and lambie has that xFactor but i’d keep morne around as his mentor.
10 Jan 2012, 06:44 am
@man1a-355: I have no issue with smaller players, but do think if you fill your entire backline with them your are headed for trouble. Goosen looks to be eactly what we need at 10.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IumX3Qjt4fw
10 Jan 2012, 20:55 pm
@garth-356: ok now i remember a bit of goosen. didnt watch a hell of a lotta cheetahs games.
shows promise and has the eye for a gap. good linking, awareness and an awesome drop kick.
whats his defence and tactical kicking like tho? waste of time being the greatest attacking 1st5 when your channel is a turnstile.
10 Jan 2012, 22:33 pm
@man1a-357: I too live in NZ so don’t get to see many CC games. From reading some of the posts, it seems he can tackle too.
10 Jan 2012, 23:20 pm
@garth-358: so where the ***** he been for the past 4 years? saw a highlight footage of him and i’m impressed. but highlight reels can be decieving.
if he’s a good defender and can handle test level then worldrugby better be worried
11 Jan 2012, 00:40 am
@man1a-359: In school. He is only 19.
11 Jan 2012, 00:56 am
@garth-360: no sh it. looks like he’s older. d4m what a find
11 Jan 2012, 04:21 am
JC good well written article!
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