Comments on: Pride restored

By: YoMama

YoMama — Thu, 02 Feb 2012 14:34:28 +0000

…to Chumps in 2012 and not even in Super Rugby 2013

By: J.B. Cowper

J.B. Cowper — Wed, 11 Jan 2012 11:10:08 +0000

Mana – don’t know why he didn’t like Steyn – who knows but P de V wanted people to fall in line and Frans was the young hothead – all I know is the Kiwis wouldn’t have wasted so much raw talent for so long … although Sonny Boy Williams on the bench was a waste …

By: man1a

man1a — Wed, 11 Jan 2012 02:07:03 +0000

@cab-105: yeah i’ve been pretty disapointed with the boks lately, post 2009, but only because i know what a massive team they can be.
boks and AB’s in the finals was supposed to be what happened. but nah aus screwed up and it came down to them meeting the boks in the 1/4′s. sucked and I was so p!ssed off. I wanted aussie in the quarters and boks in the final. to be the best you have to beat the best. and what better way to achieve that than by playing against 2 & 3.
the aussie side is a team we always enjoy beating because its personal, but in terms of performance and measuring your performance there’s only really the boks to gauge where your at.
really enjoy the clashes against the boks. specially the big ones where they’re smashing each other around
when boks dominated 2009 i really enjoyed it (yeah i’m a ******). hated the losses but AB’s were over due for a lesson in that they couldnt carry on playing mediocre and still win. boks 09 gave the AB’s a good kick up the but that they seriously deserved.
any how i’m out. work day done. awesome chatting to you. love learning about the saffa psyche minus all the insults that usually fly around. hope i can ask you questions bout the SA rugby when i have a question that needs an intelligent answer and vice versa
and remember, as they say in the NFL “any team can beat any other team on any given sunday”. boks have to improve from here, they’ve been shackled for the past 4 years.
surely the next coach cant be as ineffectual as PDV? i hope anyways

By: cab

cab — Wed, 11 Jan 2012 01:13:43 +0000

And the ABs were the best side at the RWC without a shadow of a doubt.

By: cab

cab — Wed, 11 Jan 2012 01:09:53 +0000

@man1a-102: yeah u speak plenty spense man1a on all points, bakkies a liability but perfect balance with the younger beast and bismarck in tight 5, tho gurthro and rossouw also a damn good combination, guess we'll never know with the ABs whove been the best side the last few years so a bit uncharitable on my part - i wouldve loved to have seen it, especially at eden park where the mighty ABs virtually unbeatable.

By: man1a

man1a — Tue, 10 Jan 2012 23:02:59 +0000

@cab-101: with this side, boks just may have taken the WC, but i doubt it. AB's were fired up on all cylinders for the quarters. woud've had to have been a great boks performance to beat us that day. the AB's back 3 taking all the kicks was a strategy developed to counter the boks. worked well on the aussies so boks would've had to have another plan other than kicking and pressuring.

By: man1a

man1a — Tue, 10 Jan 2012 22:56:12 +0000

@cab-100: i think burgers realising age is catching up. that'd be why he's developing his off load game. still early stages but he's getting better and better at it. yes the game plan of using him as first reciever was flawed. sqaure peg in a round hole. burgers never been a dymanic ball carrier, competent yes, outstanding no. alberts has all the skills and does his core role well, ie bashing the ball up and crossing the adv line @cab-101: i'd have guthro over beast bakkies is a liabilty, i'd easily prefer roussow definately agree with 8,9,10,12,13 and 14 habana, not sure. has a good rugby brain and great at general play but his main attribute should b scoring tries which he did bugger all of for the last few years. not sure if thats the backlines fault for not giving him quality ball or he's past it. 15 would have to lambie imho

By: cab

cab — Tue, 10 Jan 2012 22:28:08 +0000

1. Beast/Gurthro 2. Bismarck 3. Jannie 4. Bakkies 5. Matfield 6. Brussow 7. Burger 8. Alberts
9. Hougaard 10. Morne 11. Habana 12. Frans Steyn 13. Fourie 14. JP 15. Lambie/Aplon

I am convinced that side would’ve taken it. And you have had koos doos as coach.

By: cab

cab — Tue, 10 Jan 2012 22:22:50 +0000

@man1a-98:
think naas was a kicker passer like fox too, he was exceptionally fast but didnt break the line too much cos werent too keen on the contact, damn funny to watch, but he controlled the game like fox, probably better than anyone else imo, but not an allround flyhalf like carter, better rugby brain tho.

Burger still is a great player, but he’s lost his ball-carrying a bit, he’s body not as robust as it once was and not hitting it up as hard or as fast anymore, he’s still a great player in general play tho – but with hard won ball imo you need to be very selective who you use to hit up with as your ballcarrier, imo there is noone in SA like Alberts at present who always gets over and his ball protection is very good, it gives a lot of momentum, which burger is not giving at the moment, look at ozzie game alot of ball but no momentum, it was a bad move to use him in this role at the RWC. He shoulda just been told to nail everything that moves and the ballcarrying left for Alberts. Couldve been an almighty mutha of a Bok side, but we’ll never see it.

Spies is very explosive and a better ballcarrier option that Burger, but as you say he does not have the mental side – Alberts ticks all the boxes, they made a couple of fkups.

By: man1a

man1a — Tue, 10 Jan 2012 21:29:18 +0000

@cab-97: and burger tackled all day like a demon. which bok contributes more defensively than burger? spies, have never rated him. great athelete but below average rugby player. needs a rugby brain as doesnt have the instinct to do the little things that contribute over all. he never clears rucks or mauls. never see him coming up with a try saving tackle, his linking between backs and forwards is pretty non existent. to me a good measure of a player is how they play in a losing game. spies disapears in the tough matches. sorry i think the guys a waste of space. still has potential but until he shows that he's actively working on his craft then should remain at super level

By: man1a

man1a — Tue, 10 Jan 2012 21:21:39 +0000

@TASSIES-96: i was the same as u. i thought smit was a good captain. certainly did the tight 5 work and cleared out rucks and mauls and put in some pretty big hits but in retrospect it was a symptom of the bigger problem with the senior players taking over. Fourie I'm assuming FdP, Jaques is one of the best centres in the world at the mo. yeah FdP was a real let down when he eventually came back from injury. Hougaard should've had more game time but again it was the snr players picking themselves. @cab-97: easy on cab. was never a naas fan till someone here pointed me to some footage of him. never watched much rugby pre-apartheid so was surprised with the athletecism of the guy. always thought he was a kicker passer like fox but saw great footage of his scything runs. dont understand why everyones down on burger. the guy was told what to do and he did it like any great soldier. game plan was to use him as the 1st up hitter/battering ram. may not have been a great idea but that didnt stop burger from trying over and over again. he wasnt captain it wasnt his place to change the gameplan during the game. predictable? not his place as a blindside (yeah he wears 7 but does the 6's role) to be flashy. ran more ball in that 1/4 finals than any other boks forward. wtf were the rest of the worldClass boks forwards doing? p!ssing around mainly or being ineffectual. cant blame the guy for doing his job

By: cab

cab — Tue, 10 Jan 2012 20:42:54 +0000

@NZINCHINA-92: tell you whats amazing is that nz ever produced a flyhalf like fox, maybe we not so different afterall, coulda been a splitting image of our man nasty naas botha. @man1a-93: yeah spies far too many ordinary performances, i dunno they just kept picking the same team, consistency is fine, but the players must be consistently performing, and spies is very much up and down, alberts should have been there, neith spies nor burger where getting over the adv line. @TASSIES-96: yep thats probably it summed up.

By: TASSIES

TASSIES — Tue, 10 Jan 2012 20:05:54 +0000

PdV was given his opportunity and blew it. The Smit debate has been raging for years and only some of us got it right. And I wasn’t one of them. I supported his leadership of the side(read squad) but expected Biz to start the big daddys. Starting the big ones with JS and Fourie was a monumental blunder, given both players’ form. I wont elaborate on Spies. Its all been well outlined by others for me.

By: man1a

man1a — Tue, 10 Jan 2012 19:10:51 +0000

@J.B. Cowper-94: why didnt PDV like Frans Steyn? its a relief when he isnt on the field because u know your given another 20 metres of field u can infringe in morne may not be a carter but he's still a quality 1st5. should be on the bench as backup and mentor as a new pivot is developed. imo lambie needs to be given a shot, though i recently watched footage of goosen and he seems to have a lot to offer

By: J.B. Cowper

J.B. Cowper — Tue, 10 Jan 2012 13:09:22 +0000

@man1a-89: @NZINCHINA-92: Frans Steyn - Morne not and never will be in Carter's league - but Frans is a special talent and in typical Bok-politics rugby has been criminally mismanaged

By: man1a

man1a — Tue, 10 Jan 2012 01:19:24 +0000

@cab-90: why spies?one the the most over rated players ever imho. fast and strong but his work ethic is terrible. doesnt seem to have a rugby brain. avoids clearing out a ruck like it was the plague and spends way too much time waiting for the ball instead going in and getting it.

By: NZINCHINA

NZINCHINA — Tue, 10 Jan 2012 00:03:15 +0000

@J.B. Cowper-81: you talking Morne or Frans? @cab-83: lol thats a pretty accurate comparison actually, Foxy had better overall control on the paddock than Morne though

By: man1a

man1a — Mon, 09 Jan 2012 23:07:39 +0000

like Hougaard and Alberts and they should’ve started more games
fully agree with the arse about face when it came to knock outs.
2009 boks definately ruled world rugby, and though it was a winning game plan it was only one. once the AB’s dropped roko and sivivatu and replaced them with wingers that could defuse bombs it put much more counter attack ability back in the oppostion game. boks didnt have a back up plan and persisted with the kicking for territory game. boks basically handed the AB’s the winning formula for stopping aus in the quarters.

definately needs to be a balance of the wisdom from experience and the exuberance of youth. aus lacked their experience and boks had too much without any new ideas or skills being brought into the mix.

imho boks should’ve also lost to samoa

By: cab

cab — Mon, 09 Jan 2012 22:29:46 +0000

@man1a-89: yeah alot of these guys were probably a little out of it form-wise. It was a tough one though cos reckon the coaches know often the top players can come back, but FdP was out too long, Habana's form had been shocking for a while and some of the S15 sides had even been targetting his wing. yeah agree with alot of that, personally, I wouldve started Bismarck, Spies and Hougaard over their more senior counterparts who shouldve have played the backup role in the event the form players went down with injury - it was a match made in heaven to an extent - the perfect setup but they got it arse about face, they ver nearly had it right, but not enough form players in their balance, went for experience, too much. The Boks probably peaked in 2009 when they correctly filtered in new blood like Beast and Bismark, as the years went on they should have slotted Hougaard and Alberts into the mix who were the form players of the 2011 S15. This would've been adapting to change while still keeping the class, instead they went all the way back to pre-2009 and saw their arses. They actually shouldve lost v Wales, no doubt about it, it was a miraculous turnaround with bismark, alberts and hougaard coming on. Instead of learning the lesson, they took from it that the superbench would bail them out, crazy, and no ways going to happen vs winners like oz.

By: man1a

man1a — Mon, 09 Jan 2012 22:16:23 +0000

@cab-88: yeah smit never should’ve started and the decision never should’ve been his. talk about conflict of interest.
hougart should’ve started and maybe that would’ve put a fire under FdP to get his sh it correct
habana i’m unsure about. hasnt fired for a few years but was that because he never got ball from his back line or was he well past it? can u tell me why boks didnt have more moves that involved habana?
spies, honestly i dont understand why he makes the side. he’s missing for the majority of the games and only ever turns up in the easy wins.

i’d never want to see pdv coach the boks side ever again, but u gotta wonder how it would’ve turned out if he had a bit more balls and ran the boks like he’d wanted too instead listening to the players who instead of being inovative and expansive just went back to the same old sh it.
boks had the forwards to get a lot of quality front foot ball and the backline for attacking rugby but just could never get it to flow for more than a few phases.