White laments lack of feeder systems
10 Feb 2012
Brumbies coach Jake White says Australia’s relative lack of depth in comparison to South Africa and New Zealand undermines their Super Rugby cause.
The former Springbok coach explained that the salary cap and squad restriction (30 players) compounded the problem but primarily bemoaned the absence of quality feeder systems in Australia.
‘There is no academy – so there’s no junior age groups you can pull players from. So you really can’t underestimate what Ewen McKenzie did with the Reds last year – for an Australian team to win the title was a fantastic achievement,’ White said.
‘The main difficulty I am having is when you don’t have an academy and you don’t have an U21 side it makes it tough to have the required depth. [South African] teams, like the Bulls and Sharks, can draw in U21 players, while New Zealand teams can draw in players from their provincial competition.
‘The Blues can drag in players from North Harbour, the Chiefs can get players from Taranaki and so on. And in South Africa, they can bring in players from other areas. But here it is different. That is the difficulty of coaching an Australian franchise. You are playing in the competition involving 15 teams and five teams have restrictions the other 10 don’t have.’
There has been a mass exodus of senior players from the Canberra franchise including Rocky Elsom, Adam Ashley-Cooper, Matt Giteau and Stephen Hoiles, leaving them short of experience and largely reliant on young players. However, White explained that they were still in better shape than some franchises.
‘We are as good as we can be in that framework … At this point in time, the Brumbies have a lot of positives other teams don’t have. I have 32 guys fit and ready to play, whereas other franchises have a lot of injuries. As much as the squad is inexperienced and new, there are bonuses,’ he said.
White added that he could not appoint a captain at this point. ‘I’ve just joined them, I don’t really know the players and haven’t seen them play. So it would be unfair for me to immediately announce a captain,” White said.
‘There are a lot of guys there who have leadership potential but the most important thing is that I’m looking for a captain who complements me and brings the best out in the group.’
33 Comments
10 Feb 2012, 08:49 am
Feed the Dragons
10 Feb 2012, 08:54 am
Who is the feeder system for the Southern Kings?? University of Fort Hare??
10 Feb 2012, 08:58 am
Stop making excuses before the seasons even started Jake. Just do your damn job and work with what you’ve got. Jeez this guy’s talkative. Do you hear all the other aussie coaches yapping on in the media. The championship coach himself doesn’t have much to say but old JW just loves the sound of his voice.
10 Feb 2012, 08:59 am
And we don’t need JW telling us about australias depth. we all know about it and we all know they have AFL, NRL etc blah blah. So stop creating a safety cushion for yourself in case your team bombs
10 Feb 2012, 09:00 am
The Kings are a BBE franchise so they’ll use all their cousins and friends as a feeder system.
10 Feb 2012, 09:01 am
Brumbies will be one of the teams sitting at the top. The Stormers need to start worrying around about now.
10 Feb 2012, 09:14 am
vreet kak jake
this man is really punting for saffa kids to go to aus.
10 Feb 2012, 09:18 am
@Great White Sharks gonna get ya-5:
The Kings and Cheeky Watson are the ‘feeder’ system… they’ll be feeding alright…
10 Feb 2012, 09:21 am
@flanka-3:
Yes you do… Keo just doesn’t cut-n-paste those articles as he cannot get any comments on them from guys like you…
10 Feb 2012, 09:49 am
@bryce_in_oz-8:
Feeding their offshore accounts like all good comrades do.
10 Feb 2012, 09:51 am
@Transformation-7:
Brilliant. I’d send my kid. Wouldn’t you or are you a Kings disciple?
10 Feb 2012, 10:03 am
@Great White Sharks gonna get ya-11: disciple?
what is this, a cult?
10 Feb 2012, 10:08 am
@Transformation-12: The cult of Watson
10 Feb 2012, 10:08 am
You answered my question.
Viva higher learning viva. G’day mate!
10 Feb 2012, 10:12 am
@Great White Sharks gonna get ya-14: what does sending kids to Canberra have to do with the Kings?
10 Feb 2012, 10:24 am
@Great White Sharks gonna get ya-14:
Fool.
10 Feb 2012, 10:25 am
@Transformation-15:
I wonder what his feeder system was.
10 Feb 2012, 10:29 am
@Dawn-17: the sewer system?
10 Feb 2012, 10:35 am
must be like heaven for Jake … no quotas like January etc to worry about!
10 Feb 2012, 10:41 am
Jake has a very good point here and something which I have always been amazed at.
Where the hell do all the kids play there rugby union? How do they get into the sport?
Even in a Rugby Union friendly state like Queensland, it still seems as though league rules the roost. With the Brisbane Broncos and the Gold Coast Titans etc.
@flanka-3:
Dont think he’s making excuses flanka, its correct summation of the level of depth in Union in Aus.
10 Feb 2012, 10:43 am
@John Galt-20:
there = their
10 Feb 2012, 13:39 pm
@bryce_in_oz-9: I’ve lived in all 3 SANZAR countries and I can guarantee that Jake White will be the most talkative franchise coach in Aus this season. I follow the Aus media so its not a case of keo simply choosing JW articles to cut and paste. Its not that I have anything against him, but what he’s saying isn’t anything new. he’s not educating us as to something we didn’t know about. Australias lack of depth has been around for as long as rugby’s been around so why do we need JW conveniently reminding us about this a few weeks before the season starts. So he already has his scapegoat in place of course, once his Brumbies fail to deliver.
10 Feb 2012, 13:43 pm
@John Galt-20: I know it is but we all know that, he knew that before moving there…so whats the article about? Maybe my venom should rather be directed at the keo team for the poor quality articles they’ve been spewing out in the lead up to the season
10 Feb 2012, 13:48 pm
@John Galt-20: And to answer your question regarding the depth in states like QLD. Kids play union in school (mostly private schools) and league as their club rugby. So essentially a lot of them grow up playing both codes then make the decision after school which path to choose. All their prodigies, James O’Connor, Berrick Barnes, Quade Coope etc grew up playing rugby league club rugby and rugby union for their schools…..actually Barnes was earmarked to be a league great and was the golden boy rookie of the Broncos before deciding he wanted to play union. Cooper may very well go back to league if Khodder Nasser has a say. It works both ways as a lot of league players were union stars in school. So essentially when looking for their club depth u have to include their league clubs as a lot of those players are adept to both sports but simply chose one over the other
10 Feb 2012, 13:49 pm
@John Gait-20
The private schools are where the rugby is played at school level . There are school state sides and of course the Ozzie Schools team . Then the U21′s and so on . At club level things thin out a bit . No doubt union is a minor sport here due to R League and AFL .JW is setting himself up for failure – inevitable as he has Gregan, Larkham and others involved . Personalities will clash no doubt .
10 Feb 2012, 14:01 pm
this is true.
at school in ossie we played union but the trailer park brats played league.
just like the uk really.
10 Feb 2012, 14:04 pm
At the end of the day the main point is, if you’re a kak coach in Australia you WILL be exposed due to the lack of depth. Coaching there is the real deal, none of this ‘management’ nonsense. Jakes woes have been experienced by Australian coaches for generations upon generations which is why im wondering what he’s going on about. If anything Canberra actually has a very good competitive rugby school system (including the st edmunds rugby factory) which has churned out good players like like greghan larkham the faaiingas giteau etc, compared to say Perth where its non existent for the Force.
10 Feb 2012, 16:07 pm
@Transformation-15:
Well lets see. You’ve got your loincloth in a twist because you think White wants to encourage young (white) kids to ply their rugby trade in Oz, and I’m saying don’t knock it just because you’d rather your lot reach the heady heights of playing for his royal excellency King Sheeke’ Watson of Southern Mampaparaville.
Some have goals that will have more value in the long run and some would rather just go to UJ and get an average education playing for an average rugby institution.
Don’t knock those that have more ambition than the rabble you and Prawn hang around with.
10 Feb 2012, 16:20 pm
@flanka-27:
Agreed for the most part… however you’re forgetting most ‘schools’ player’s get chosen from ‘grade’ rugby once out playing for their clubs whether that be in the two major Aus leagues namely Shute and QLD Prem with states like Victoria (on the rise), WA and ACT with a large number of clubs (remember Ismail Dollie could not even make the Quaynbean 2nd’s in ACT before leaving for Japan)…
Rugby is not only played at ‘rugby’ schools with almost every competitive club in Australia catering for U6′s to U16′s before moving up to Colts and then Grade…
One of the many ‘outside of the square’ things JW has already implemented from last year in order to further build the club scene in Canberra is every contracted player is now not permitted to play their club rugby outside of Canberra…
10 Feb 2012, 16:48 pm
@bryce_in_oz-29: That’s the thing about Aus club rugby. Though they don’t have the numbers they have quality and great structures and coaching systems meaning the small talent pool is still well managed, with average players being coached into becoming ‘good’ and good players becoming great. They key thing is their quality coaching. You look at a lot of Aussie legends and read their history and see they weren’t anything ridiculously special as youngsters. lark ham was good but not great, and wasn’t even a natural 10. If he grew up in SA he prob wouldnt have gone farther than CC rugby, not because of lack opf talent but because of lack of structure/coaching. We have the talent in SA but poor coaching hence we’re reliant on our ‘freak’ players who essentially can get by without good coaching due to their natural abilities. Just look at our Boks as the prime example.
I’ve seen Grade Rugby in Perth of all places and it was actually quality stuff. Great ball handling skills, minimal errors, it was a microcosm of Aussie rugby, not high in talent but great in discipline and skill development. ie work with what you’ve got. JW has got to learn thats the aussie way and get his coaching gloves dirty, not just whinge at the lack of depth and buy SA teenagers from bloemfontein. SA simply survives by its talent and large player pool. NZ gets the best of both worlds, great coaching AND freakish talent resulting in them being the dominant rugby force.
10 Feb 2012, 17:44 pm
@flanka-30:
Oh I agree on the quality of coaching and professionalism… one only has to pick any club’s website and see their inventive programs and credentials… but disagree about club numbers… let’s forget about schools, the 5 other states nationwide and concentrate only on clubs in NSW… the Sydney metropolitan area alone is divided up into 12 sectors and namely clubs like Sydney Uni, Randwick, Warringah, Easts etc etc etc.
Each one of these 12 premier clubs is further broken down into their junior feeder sections (on average 5 Junior clubs each)… Warringah for example selects their colts>grade players from Waringah, Dee Why, Narabeen, Terrey Hills, Collaroy, Newport and Wakehurst and this is only one club in the Sydney Metropolitan area in NSW…
Each of those clubs then send their best rep teams to the yearly NSW state junior champs in June every year to compete against the rugby schools, other club reps from both outside of the metro area and the best of the outer suburban clubs and country NSW… that’s a pretty sizeable pool of boys (19000 at last count)…
As an aside did you know that the NSW Suburban Rugby Union is the largest centrally organised rugby competition in the world not too mention that New South Wales Country Rugby Union is the largest rugby province in the world?
10 Feb 2012, 18:09 pm
@bryce_in_oz-31: hmmm when i say ‘small pool’ im talking comparatively. Just one small free state town like Ladybrand (that most people would never even have heard of) would have a sizable amount of players. And thats just a pin on the south african map.
10 Feb 2012, 18:11 pm
The south african numbers will always cause the aussie talent pool to be comparatively small, but in aus nobody falls through the cracks due to their more advanced systems.
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