Relegation would alter Super mindset
13 Feb 2012
JON CARDINELLI writes that with the merger option quashed and the six-franchise option unlikely, South African teams may be forced to employ conservative tactics in order to secure Super Rugby survival.
Gary Gold put it best when he described how club rugby differs in the northern and southern hemispheres. ‘In the south they play to win, whereas in the north they play not to lose,’ he said, citing his experience as a coach in competitions like the English Premiership and Super Rugby.
Gold explained that the relegation factor influenced the style of play in England, while the Sanzar nations could afford to be more adventurous as the results had no bearing on their continued involvement in the south’s premier competition.
But that could change in 2012, at least for South Africa’s Super Rugby teams.
Saru is currently wrestling with the problem of fitting six franchises into five slots. They’ve ruled out the possibility of merging two franchises, and while they hope to convince Sanzar to accommodate six SA teams, the 2013 tournament is unlikely to differ to that of 2012. The existing franchises won’t like the idea of relegation, but considering the contractual obligations, there may be no alternative.
The final decision will only be announced next month, but we already know more than we did at this time last week. There will be no amalgamation similar to that of the Cats, and there are those at the Cheetahs and Lions who will laud this decision as a massive victory. But now that the merger option has been ruled out, another scrap will begin.
History will show that of SA’s five franchises, the Cheetahs and Lions have fared the worst at Super Rugby level. The Cheetahs have performed consistently at domestic level while the Lions recently won the Currie Cup, but this has never been a true indicator of Super Rugby aptitude. Going into the 2012 competition, the Cheetahs and Lions will be the South African underdogs once again.
At the start of 2012, both sides may have held lofty ambitions of finishing in the top half of the table or even sneaking into the play-offs. Now that relegation could become a possibility, they may have to alter game plans and adjust priorities and goals to ensure that come the end of the competition, they don’t receive the chop.
Of course, it is yet to be determined whether the relegation option will be adopted and, if it is, how it would be implemented.
It could be that Saru decides to stage a relegation series after the Super Rugby season, in which case the respective teams’ Super Rugby survival would be riding on the result of two or three games. That option wouldn’t make much sense, however, as it would take place at the end of a grueling six-month competition and both teams would be without their Boks due to Rugby Championship commitments. It would also lead to the bizarre situation where coaches save their best players for the relegation/promotion series rather than risk them in the last rounds of the Super Rugby tournament itself.
If an automatic relegation option was installed, in other words if the worst South African side made way for the Southern Kings in 2013, the question would be thrown back at Saru: Why wasn’t the decision made before the 2012 competition started?
The coaches could even take it a step further and ask why the decision wasn’t made before the pre-season when tactics and other plans are implemented. These are relevant questions, because as Gold once intimated with his description of the northern competitions, the threat of relegation can alter a team’s goals and thus its style of play.
The current laws prescribe a move towards percentage play, and while the Bulls, Sharks and Stormers all differ slightly in game plan, they do prize territory above all else. The Cheetahs and Lions, while traditionally the worst SA teams in terms of results, have often employed a more expansive approach to the game. It has sometimes made for entertaining rugby and on occasion has brought them success, but how will the prospect of relegation alter the mindset in the respective camps? Results will no longer be crucial in terms of shooting for a play-off place; they may be vital for survival.
The Cheetahs showed their conservative side when they played in Cape Town nine days ago, which may suggest they are already starting to think along these lines. The Lions entertained in the 2011 Currie Cup with an all-out-attack, but it was clear that John Mitchell has installed some balance. It could be that the Lions play more to the laws in the coming season, and in doing so, improve their chances of staying in the top flight.
The Super Rugby race will be closely contested, as the length of the competition adds to the challenge.There may also be a competition within the competition as the South African teams scrap for survival.
The Bulls, Sharks and Stormers won’t take the traditionally weaker sides in their conference lightly, as they won’t want to fall into a potential relegation zone either. This could mean that the big three SA teams are also effected when it comes to selection and playing style.
Saru will announce its decision at the end of March, and if a relegation system is favoured, it will prompt a scrap that could transform the South African psyche into something resembling the mindset of European clubs up north.
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413 Comments
13 Feb 2012, 05:08 am
Relegation DRAGON…this story is far from over.
13 Feb 2012, 05:09 am
Another SARU stuff up. Just par for the course for them.
It’s difficult to work out what they were thinking, when we can’t field 5 regularly competitive sides, when they sprouted the call for a 6th team.
I glad SANZAR told them to go and shove it. The existing 15 team competition tv rights are settled. Too late to make changes.
SARU are the single biggest problem with the game in this country. They need a massive cleanout ASAP.
13 Feb 2012, 05:10 am
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13 Feb 2012, 05:31 am
Dump the “Kings”. They’re a waste of time.
13 Feb 2012, 05:31 am
Yes it is time to get rid of that ***** Oregan Hoskins, he is so useless, what has he actually done for SARU? There is no leadership at SARU, useless bunch of idiots, I would tell the unions to get lost, the best way forward is to drop the Lions, they are bankrupt, it should be a pre-requisite to be solvent and play superugby.
13 Feb 2012, 05:33 am
Oregano Hoskins is a pu$$y
13 Feb 2012, 05:35 am
The franchises have told SARU that:
The letter reads:
“After lengthy discussions between the Franchises, we unanimously decided that it is imperative:
That such inclusion will benefit South African rugby in general;
That none of the existing franchises shall be prejudiced by such inclusion in any way whatsoever;
That none of the existing franchises shall be eliminated from the tournament in 2013 or at any stage thereafter as a result of the inclusion of the Kings;
That SARU as custodian of the South African leg of the tournament will ensure that the Kings are included without prejudice to any of the existing franchises.”
Which means they do not regard relegation as an option either and if they can get their franchise partner unions behind them voting will be 11 to 3.
It is clear from their letter to SARU that they voted “unanimously” for the Kings inclusion from 2013 provided SARU negotiate an expanded Super Rugby. If that doesn’t happen then SARU will have to go back to the Kings and tell them their inclusion will be negotiated with SANZAR for the next expansion.
If SARU unilaterally refuses to renew one of the current franchises at the end of the year we could see a new SARU board soon after.
Simple really – SARU must fix their own mess. None of the franchises are prepared to commit rugby suicide to accommodate an inferior franchise.
13 Feb 2012, 05:50 am
@maximus1-5: Weird. I’ve yet to read that any court have found the Lions to be bankrupt. And I would have expected people like Gumede & Co, Altmann Allers, MTN and Redefine Properties to investigate the Lions’ financial viability before investing or sponsoring.
Until a court decides otherwise I prefer to take de Klerk & Allers’s word for it that the Lions sorting out their financial issues.
13 Feb 2012, 06:35 am
JC once again Keo is running with the wrong story. First it was about the non story about the merger rejection when the real story was about the letter. Now you are on about the non story of relegation when you should be the phone with your client, Luke, asking him if he going back to Bath in 2013 when the inevitable chop is given to his Kings.
13 Feb 2012, 06:37 am
Screwwww the unions threatening to boycott. It is about time the fans boycotted their pathetic union administrators. The whole lot of them. This is not a new phenomenon, we had the same old **** a lot of the time pre 1994, but this now a professional era and this divvy up the spoils amongst our mates mentality can no longer be tolerated. As long as fans are happy to let cabals of committee members with matching ties and reserved parking spaces act like they own the teams we get the crummy administrators we deserve.
Re the EP Kings. if this region has the huge number of registered players we are told it has, the following questions must be asked.
1. Is there anyone, anywhere who get this union to at least Currie Cup standard, not to mention Super rugby level?
If yes, where are they? Why are they so rare? What special powers must they possess?
If not, why not? We are talking about the union with one of the largest player bases of any being unable to compete even with the perennial sad sacks of Super rugby. What are the issues this make this simple task so seemingly unachievable?
If we can answer these questions we are on the way to getting SA rugby as a whole healthy.
In the meantime it is just more bullsheet rearranging of the deckchairs while the cold water rushes over us.
Signed,
Royally pissed off.
13 Feb 2012, 06:49 am
@stormer in a teacup-10: I asked the same question about the EC. Their so called “large” player base and club league is nothing more than a fantasy. How can a rugby region, twice the size of the WP not qualify for the Currie cup premier division in the last 10 years.
It is mind boggling.
13 Feb 2012, 07:09 am
Hey I came across this golden oldie and for some reason it made me think of extra ball…
When you feel that nobody loves you,
Nobody cares for you,
Everybody is ignoring you,
You should really ask yourself…..
Am I a doos?
13 Feb 2012, 07:22 am
As I said on Pissant’s site – The smaller unions that are currently part of Super franchises will also back the Big 5, to protect their own involvement in Super rugby. The Kings are a threat to them as much as to their Big 5 partners. So when it comes to the crunch, the Kings will vote alone against 10 or 11 out of the 14 unions who will oppose them replacing any of the existing unions.
(No idea why this post is in italics)
13 Feb 2012, 07:29 am
@Tacitus-13: Pissant has a site?
13 Feb 2012, 07:32 am
Relegation seems to be the only answer but none of the Big 5 unions will go for this – imagine now that the Lions now get relegated and lose their lucrative tv contracts , the union might as well close its doors …. I am sure if i was in the Eastern Cape i would be jumping for joy that the SKs are being involved but a wise decision imo not a good one at this point .
13 Feb 2012, 07:38 am
@Tacitus-13:
Tac, the smaller unions will go where the money is.
@Jeez-14:
http://www.ruggaworld.com/
13 Feb 2012, 07:41 am
@Tacitus-13:
This is correct. Hoskins being the spineless president that he is has sent the letter from the big 5 to the 9 country unions asking them to decide on which unions should play superrugby. Now 6 of these 9 are already receiving SANZAR cheques from their franchise partners and they will not do anything to jeopardize those cheques.
Now some will say that the Pumas and Leopards may side with the Kings and forget about the Lions since they have not received their piece of the SANZAR pie. This is not going to happen because they know that they will get their pie (eventually). Thier SANZAR pie is needed more than ever since they were relegated from the premier division of the Currie cup so expect them to s.crew the Kings.
13 Feb 2012, 07:44 am
@stew-15: Yep that will surely be the end for the Lions. It would be great if all our teams do well this year…Especially the LIons and Cheetahs. They need to strengthen their cause to stay in it! If they end up at the bottom agggaaain then they deserve each other and deserve to become a cat once more…
Although the cheetahs might just hold on and wait for the Lions to go under and then sign their top players….all the other franchises for that matter, like vultures.
Read a funny comment on an article in the Rapport yesterday: die bulle en lions moet saamsmelt en die Bloukatte word. Lol bloukatte, cracks me up.
13 Feb 2012, 07:48 am
The Stormers have been playing this way for the past few years already. It’s been very effective, but more a NH style than a classic Super 15 pattern of play.
13 Feb 2012, 07:49 am
Yup, relegation is the way to go. But it must be kept in place to ensure the six SA teams remain competitive.
So Lions get relegated at the end of this season and rebuild during 2013 and then the Kings are relegated after 2013. Welcome back Lions…
Problem, what problem?
13 Feb 2012, 07:57 am
@simbachips-20:
Check the fine print, Kings are guarenteed a spot for 3 years so your promotion/relegation will be between the Lions and the 4th SA franchise…
13 Feb 2012, 08:09 am
Relegation makes no sense. The Cheetahs and Lions should stop their yapping and merge and make it work 2nd time round. They have the worst track records of all the super rugby teams. They havent shown much improvement so its time to face facts.They wont be competitive unless the have a decent squad, with quality depth. If they merge they will have a decent squad capable of being at the top. Like i said if the cheetahs refuse, that will be the end of the lions and then they will probably sign lions players anyway. No decent player will stay at the lions if he cant play super rugby…
13 Feb 2012, 08:19 am
Kings could not beat Boland last year, how on earth do they deserve a S15 spot
13 Feb 2012, 08:21 am
@Jeez-22: So can you name 26 players from the Kings that has those credentails ?
All they have are semi retired players, Barry , Stick, Watson ect.
13 Feb 2012, 08:32 am
@Jeez-22:
why
must
the cheetahs
and lions
or any other
franchise
for that
matter
do anything
just to
accommodate
a politically
motivated
franchise
with basically
zero
rugby credentials
sheer
stupidity
13 Feb 2012, 08:34 am
@capebull-24: It doesnt really matter does it…Theyre in and there is nothing anyone can do about it. The other 5 franchises approved this decision. The Kings will just be another embarrassing franchise like the lions who will loose 99% of their games…
13 Feb 2012, 08:44 am
@Porra the Fat and Clever Speedster-25:
I agree its unfair, but that is what will have to happen if sanzar disallows SA to have 6 franchises. So thats all im commenting on. Its been a pain to watch to watch 2 of our teams doing so badly each year…. With the Kings in next year, its going to be torture to watch half of our teams loosing more than 60-80% of their games. Why not merge and have 4 competitive teams and one struggling one-Southern Kings.
Its been long enough. The Lions have been the laughing stock of super rugby since the Cats split. The cheetahs not far behind. The Kings dont deserve it, but thats politics in SA.
13 Feb 2012, 08:48 am
@RL-17:
As much as I have zero respect for SARU or the various unions… Hoskins is correct in sending the letter to the other 9 unions. WHat is he supposed to do? Keep a SARU issue secret from other stakeholders?
Transparency is key.
The real reason for justifiable anger is how we got into this mess in the 1st place. This is many years of bad decisions, bad management and bad negotiating.
13 Feb 2012, 08:49 am
anyone remember teams like sheffield united?
nottingham forrest?
sheffield wednesday?
and a host of other teams left behind when the poms created the premier league from the old first division.
and new ones like hull have made their way into the top league as “projects” of wealthy investors.
will the lions or cheetahs one day be a “project” for someone?
13 Feb 2012, 08:53 am
@stormer in a teacup-10:
Was there really a threat of boycott?
I am not convinced a 2013 boycott was even threatened. Jurie Roux has denied it.
The only references I have seen are some badly written, emotional arguments from Keo himself.
I would like to see the whole letter. The below except states that they want no relegation etc. It does not say they will breach contract and boycott in 2013.
Keo needs to front up and produce evidence that the threat of boycott exists!
An exceprt says :
“After lengthy discussions between the franchises, we unanimously decided that it is imperative:
* That such inclusion will benefit South African rugby in general;
* That none of the existing franchises shall be prejudiced by such inclusion in any way whatsoever;
* That none of the existing franchises shall be eliminated from the tournament in 2013 or at any stage thereafter as a result of the inclusion of the Kings;
* That Saru as custodian of the South African leg of the tournament will ensure that the Kings are included without prejudice to any of the existing franchises.
‘The existing franchises will endeavour to provide all necessary assistance and support to Saru in its negotiations with Sanzar to ensure the inclusion of six South African franchises in 2013 onwards.’
13 Feb 2012, 08:59 am
You can be assured that Keo is in a strategy session via conference call with Cheeky Watson right now, urging him to strike now, cause “These guys are out to screw us again, Cheeky!”
Expect some dirty tactics from the Kings team, some borderline blackmail, political name dropping, an expose on some supposedly racist activities by one of their rivals. etc.
I like how Butch’s salary of R3m compared to Elton’s R500k was highlighted as supposed racism by the Lions, this when Keo himself was loudly proclaiming Butch as the number 1 choice flyhalf for the Boks at the World Cup, while Elton is yet to start a Bok test.
Anyway, expect more of the same, as Keo gets his media attack into high gear to protect the interests of his clients at the Kings. A lot of cash at stake here. Not only for the Watsons, but also for HSM.
13 Feb 2012, 09:00 am
@rangerman-29:
Rangerman, do you remember the year the Freestate lost a promotion/relegation game against the purple people eaters? The problem is that it is not only the Lions and Cheetahs that can turn into a ‘project’….
13 Feb 2012, 09:01 am
@Biscuit-30:
Ja the bottom of the letter said…or else!
13 Feb 2012, 09:12 am
There’s a lot of speculative and uninformed opinions about this situation.
If one looks at the structure of rugby in SA, there are actually two levels, which fall under different SARU management structures. The one is based and controlled by the provincial unions up to Currie Cup level. The second is the elite structure that includes the Boks and S15 players and franchises
As far as the NewsCorp contract is concerned it stipulates that SA should field its 150 elite players. Now if a franchise is “relegated” to an alternative competition, what happens to those elite players that SARU has contracted to include in the S15? Surely they’d need to be redistributed to the participating franchises, effectively gutting the relegated union. The other point is that the provincial unions and the franchises are completely separate and different legal entities, so that players contracted to a union would be free to move to a different S15 franchise unless contracts were rewritten to exclude S15 participation. In reality the S15 franchises are not an extension of the provincial unions, as most people here seem to think, but an extension of the elite Springbok structure, which is player rather than provincially focused. This is why centrally contracting those elite 150 players by SARU makes sense as it protects the national structure from the whims of the provinces and franchises.
The other point, of course, is that faced with imminent relegation it would dawn on a union that partnering with another franchise for the next 2 to 4 years would be far more attractive than being consigned to the non S15 wilderness and losing its top CC players in the process.
13 Feb 2012, 09:12 am
The SARU has dug a deep dark hole for itself on the Kings issue.
And the hole is getting deeper. The sun now barely visible.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
no way out.
13 Feb 2012, 09:12 am
@Tacitus-31: do you really think he has time to spin for Cheeky and his client with the Olympics only months away. one would think that he and his corrupt SASCOC are away at some 5 star resort plotting their all expense paid trips to the games, working on their cover stories while the atheletes scrounge around for donations.
13 Feb 2012, 09:18 am
Said last week… all SARU has done is set the various parties against each other… and don’t be fooled by the ‘unity’ of the ‘big 5′… if and when they don’t get their way or their bluff is called, they will gladly slit each others throats to safeguard their own self-interests…
IMO… SARU should be held accountable for bringing South African Rugby into disrepute…
Instead of blurting out the ‘news’ of the Kings inclusion in this unplanned and inopportune manner… they should have either worked with SANZAR behind the scenes… or the saffa unions… to reach a truly united win-win strategy before making anything public…
But the fact that they have announced this at the beginning of 2012… the beginning of the ‘new SANZAR/newscorp deal demonstratess that SARU has put absolutely no preplanning or thought into this this decision because if they had they would have pushed for some sort of deal with NZ/Aus/Newscorp to begin now…
The fact that that haven’t proves this is simply an afterthought put forward not for rugby reasons but private personal and political agendas…
IMO… fikile should order a parliamentary investigation into SARU… appoint a team of leading auditors and businessmen and women to fully investigate the operations, management, strategising, planning, negotiating, transformation sincerity, and general running of SARU…
when the report reveals the ineptitude (which it will) and corruption (which it is likely to in terms of voting to hang onto jobs etc…) they should then appoint a team of business people to run SARU as a professional business running it according to three criteria: springbok rugby, development transformation and financial strength…
in other words… long story short… kick the lot of them out… and start again…
the definition of insanity is doing the same things repeatedly while expecting different results…
the only way we’ll get different and positive results is if we clear the decks and start again with not just one or two professionals but a full board and management team of demonstrably successful, innovative and financially sound business people… who preferably have no prior rugby connections,..
13 Feb 2012, 09:20 am
@David-34:
You would destabilize the SA rugby setup in a single stroke.
It took us 10 years to win a Super Rugby title. Your system would spread the wealth more equally, but just consign SA to Super Rugby mediocrity again.
13 Feb 2012, 09:20 am
@Tacitus-31: Net so Tac! Geld is op die spel. Dis in sekere mense se belang om die Kings in te kry. Murdoch se geld is baie handig.
13 Feb 2012, 09:24 am
The Cats thing is a major reason of the financial problems the Lions and Cheetahs have been sitting with for years. When they merge they each get 50% of the main portion of the SANZAR money whereas the other teams get the full amount. For years the Lions and Cheetahs got shafted. Merging can only work if the merged teams each get as much as the other franchises … and this will never happen.
13 Feb 2012, 09:27 am
@ufo-37:
But we’re doing fine right now. We’ve won 3 Super Rugby trophies in the last 5 years, and made numerous play-offs. We won the 2007 World Cup, and now that the politicians have been given the middle finger, we’ve got a coach who will take us to the top of world rugby, and our top Super Rugby teams are set to begin a new era of dominance in the tournament.
We are set to go into a Golden Era.
Why risk all of it just to give the Kings a free ride?
13 Feb 2012, 09:28 am
If it’s true that the 5 current Super Rugby unions only voted for the inclusion of the Kings provided their inclusion is not at the cost of an existing union, then SARU are even more retarded than I believed. What kind of professional organization makes this kind of public commitment to a course of action that carries immense consequences, without having clearly worked out exactly how it will be implemented? This reeks of attempted manipulation – SARU is writing metaphorical cheques and expecting SANZAR to cash them. Not only are SARU custodians of a national game; they are also responsible for a multi-million dollar industry, and the amateurish, politically-crippled management they have demonstrated is shameful.
13 Feb 2012, 09:29 am
@ufo-37: I am hoping that the impending court case against the Lions achieves the same thing – expose the rotten fruit and clean out the house. Then only can the Lions rebuild.
13 Feb 2012, 09:39 am
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13 Feb 2012, 09:41 am
“Gary Gold put it best when he described……”
“Gold explained …..”
honestly… i don’t rate this guy as a coach….
13 Feb 2012, 09:44 am
@Tacitus-41:
do you honestly believe things are honky-dory in south african rugby… or do you simply advocate the status quo to protect your precious bulls above all else…? i believe the latter applies to you…
IMO… any success in sa rugby is inspite of the saru not because of saru… it is because we continue to produce quality players who can compete on the world stage despite limited coaching and skills… but success is rather haphazard and not consistent… it seems teams are capable of being champs one year and chumps the next…
our world cup win in 2007 was very fortuitous and could just have easily not happened… sure the bulls have been very successful but that is not indicative of the general state of south african rugby… and their success has been due to some good planning and coaching by heyneke… but more IMO due to the exceptional players who have played for them over the last few years… the same applies to the sharks and province… the players often carry the coaches….
as pissant says… with our player resources we should dominate world rugby consistently and continuously… and the only reason why we don’t is because of the lack of effective management, foresight, skill, innovation, professionalism and vision by SARU…
so IMO… it’s not just about the kings… it’s about clearing the decks and getting out rugby ship in order to carry south african rugby forword into an era of expected and literal dominance… not hopeful, haphazard patches of glory every now and then…
@RL-43:
exactly… and the same applies to the national body too…
IMO…
13 Feb 2012, 09:45 am
@Staal-45:
who does… besides the keo crew???
13 Feb 2012, 09:48 am
@HA-HA-44:
We need you fhukkers like
The Lions need the Kings.
13 Feb 2012, 09:48 am
@David-34:
SARU doesn’t contracted any players to play Super Rugby, the unions/franchises hold the contracts and there is only one contract. The player plays for the province and the franchise to which his province is affiliated (clause 9.1.5. of the Collective Bargaining Agreement). So a player is not free to move to another franchise while staying with his union for Currie Cup/Vodacom Cup unless specifically agreed to by his union/franchise. There are no separate SR contracts.
So any franchise that gets cut would be free to hold on to their players until their contracts expire. However they may lend the players to another franchise.
13 Feb 2012, 09:49 am
@Baylion-49: *doesn’t contract
13 Feb 2012, 09:52 am
In Jonker and Craig Joubert we trust!
They will send the Cheetahs to relegation, wait and see
13 Feb 2012, 09:55 am
I am so gatvol of this debate already.
13 Feb 2012, 09:56 am
@RL-43: I doubt the court case will ever happen. The application for liquidation was done to put pressure on the Lions to accept GumaTAC’s figures and to fuel a media campaign. You only go forward with a court case if you have a reasonable chance of success and with Allers’ investment and the new sponsors that chance slipped away, if it was ever there.
13 Feb 2012, 10:03 am
@Dawn-52:
rock paper scissors.
lions v kings
best of 3.
13 Feb 2012, 10:07 am
@Baylion-49:
My point is that, once a union loses its S15 franchise status, that element of the contract becomes null and void. If a relegation system is chosen, the whole structure and contract system of the S15 and unions would need to be revised, otherwise SARU wouldn’t be able to honour its NewsCorp commitments.
13 Feb 2012, 10:21 am
@Slartibartfast-32: slarti i am not attacking the cheetahs bud, nor the lions.
i am pointing out what could happen if one of them is relegated.
i honestly feel for the kings and think it is completely unfair for three out of 14 sa unions to be left out of superrugby.
border, swd and ep are all geographically a lot closer than durbs and pe and so it makes sense that they should be grouped together. in fact, they could turn into a proper rugby force with the correct application of proper business practices allied with professional rugby approach but why does this have to be at the expense of existing franchises?
the s15 is a fukup of note imo, it must change but let the kings play top div cc, hell promote them as of next year like natal in the late 80′s and let them get their structures right so in 2015 they can join and not sink immediately.
but methinks there is a timeline linked to a certain players time left in rugby, maybe i am wrong.
13 Feb 2012, 10:26 am
@rangerman-56:
But they weren’t left out. They were part of the Sharks and Stormers franchises.
They CHOSE to take some quick cash and withdraw from these franchises.
The logical answer is to reintegrate them with the above two franchises – once they return the cash of course…
13 Feb 2012, 10:28 am
@David-55: David, there is no separate element. It is one contract for all. It is the same contract players from minor unions sign. SARU has no say over the player contracts. These contracts is ito the Collective bargaining agreement between SAREO (South African Rugby Employers’ Organisation) and SARPA (South African Rugby Players’ Association)
13 Feb 2012, 10:28 am
@Dawn-52: Agreed Dawn
let’s get cracking on the rugby already.
13 Feb 2012, 10:28 am
@rangerman-56:
the sharks should adopt the kings.
a back row of watson daniel and alberts would be AWESOME.
13 Feb 2012, 10:31 am
@Tacitus-57: That would be my solution too. With the amount adjusted for inflation, opportunity cost and annoyance factor of course.
13 Feb 2012, 10:32 am
@the artist formerly known as gunther-60:
Or even a centre pairing of De Wet Barry and Marius Joubert.
Oh the memories.
13 Feb 2012, 10:33 am
@stormersboy-59:
speaking of crackers…..
howzit.
13 Feb 2012, 10:33 am
@the artist formerly known as gunther-60: Just like old times fella!
Just like old times…..
13 Feb 2012, 10:34 am
@stormersboy-61:
Hehe.
Yes, the annoyance factor being the most substantial part of that equation.
13 Feb 2012, 10:34 am
@Tacitus-57: whatever the history tac, it still makes sense to have all the unions involved surely?
as i mentioned, ep, border and swd are close geographically and make more sense than and ep-sharks union.
in fact, the sharks are miles from anyone and i would hazard thats why we are on our own.
@the artist formerly known as gunther-60: thanks but no thanks bud
watson wants to win trophies remember
13 Feb 2012, 10:35 am
@stormersboy-61: haha, i dont think they have that kind of cash bud.
no one does.
13 Feb 2012, 10:36 am
@the artist formerly known as gunther-63:
Woke up yesterday morning to find that both my cars had been relieved of their wheels and were on concrete blocks.
Just another day in Africa
13 Feb 2012, 10:36 am
@John Galt-62:
the dummy zimmerframe switch.
@stormersboy-64:
@rangerman-66:
tHE SHARKS ARE MY SECOND TEAM…
fARK SORRY yadda yadda yip yap…
13 Feb 2012, 10:37 am
i have noticed the hopeful mentioning of the sharks as the union that should bite the bullet.
what is most telling is that it is either wistful or humourous.
13 Feb 2012, 10:38 am
Not only should the Kings be allowed to play, they should get a 40 point head start of everyone to make up for their time out in the wilderness.
13 Feb 2012, 10:38 am
@the artist formerly known as gunther-69: all oVER rovER GOODnigHT nurse
13 Feb 2012, 10:40 am
@stormersboy-68:
Sounds like another quiet saturday night for Capo.
Check his parents garage.
Or see if his tik dealer drives a Renault.
13 Feb 2012, 10:42 am
@rangerman-72:
Speaking of which, what’s happened to the Bathtub Crusader?
Is he on a sabattical? Or is this some principle-based self imposed exile he’s committed himself to?
13 Feb 2012, 10:43 am
@the artist formerly known as gunther-73: Yeah I’m going to need his whereabouts between midnight and 6am on Sunday morning.
My people will call him.
Maybe they’ll just pay him a visit.
I haven’t decided yet.
13 Feb 2012, 10:43 am
@stormersboy-68:
Are your cars parked out in the street?
13 Feb 2012, 10:45 am
@Tacitus-74: he has gone into self imposed exile until lukes right to play in a kilt has been confirmed.
justrugby was last seen running after him squealing with delight at having all of gwanties attention to himself.
13 Feb 2012, 10:46 am
@rangerman-66:
It’s because they wanted it that way after getting rid of EP and Border. They’re the only union not having to share the money with another partner. It would actually make sense for the Pumas to join the Sharks.
13 Feb 2012, 10:46 am
@Tacitus-74:
His has gone into the wilderness to eat flies and locusts for 40 days and 40 nights because I mocked just buggery for saying that Heyneke Meyer needs to try and stay out of the clutches of the Broederbond that controls SA rugby.
@garth-71:
That sounds like the lament of the eternal loser .
Pull your head out of yer @rse sonny.
You have made many stupid comments here.
But that one is a Grammy.
13 Feb 2012, 10:48 am
@David-78: why would that make sense david?
the pumas are on the highveld a million miles from durbs?
surely the pumas are closer to the lions or the bulls?
explain please.
p.s. ja, we like to go it alone here in natal.
13 Feb 2012, 10:49 am
I am probably wrong, and will no doubt be told so, but from an outsiders looking in, SARU and South Africa in general appear to have cloned their regional support of the Currie Cup comp onto to Super Rugby.
Okay, the traditional support of provincial rugby is important, but Super Rugby wasn’t created to extend the existing domestic game into the professional era.
So good on SANZAR to bounce this latest demand by SARU to expand their influence. Enough is enough surely. 15 teams is already too many.
It then beggers the question of Saffa advocates that they should move North for more equitable deals (what ever that means) than they command within the SANZAR partnership.
Somehow the NH will accomodate not just the existing 5 Super teams. but an extra one as well based on expectations of what people are expressing here.
13 Feb 2012, 10:49 am
@stormersboy-75:
sheesh.. bad news stormersboy…
speaking of annoyance factor…!!
if you need help…
i have friends in low places…!!
13 Feb 2012, 10:50 am
@Tacitus-76: No, in the driveway. We converted the garage into a home office.
Busy building a new garage next door.
13 Feb 2012, 10:53 am
@the artist formerly known as gunther-79:
I feel sorry for whichever other blog has suddenly experienced an exponential increase in emo angst. He must find an outlet for those emotions somewhere, else it’s “loitering on the roof at midnight waiting for an interested alien prober” time again…
13 Feb 2012, 10:54 am
@ufo-82: Haha thanks.
I’ve had a few of those offers over the last day or so.
Nice to have the support.
It’s not the end of the world. It’s just an admin and logistical nightmare.
The problem is the rims you get from the car dealership and the tyres elsewhere so you have to do a bit of running around.
13 Feb 2012, 10:55 am
@stormersboy-85:
Electric fence. And beams in the garden. Highly recommended.
13 Feb 2012, 10:55 am
@stormersboy-83:
Home office/spaza shop?
@Tacitus-84:
I believe they are both hiding out on Oprah’s blog.
Stalking Dr Phil.
13 Feb 2012, 10:55 am
@Brads-81: actually superrugby WAS created to extend existing domestic rugby into the professional era.
it was the kiwis and aussies who brought franchises to the table, not the saffas.
the simple fact is that at present the saffas provide up to 70% of the viewership, the revenue etc and the pie is only so big as you have rightly pointed out.
the pie is bigger, much bigger in the NH my kiwi chum.
13 Feb 2012, 10:56 am
Julle mense is baie lelik.
13 Feb 2012, 10:57 am
@stormersboy-85:
Indeed.
Or you could go to Shyster Wheel and Tyre and have Capo’s cousin sell yours back to you.
13 Feb 2012, 10:57 am
@stormersboy-85:
Get a gun and shoot the feckers.
13 Feb 2012, 10:59 am
@Tacitus-86:
what about the guard towers and dobermans?
13 Feb 2012, 11:00 am
@rangerman-88:
If that was the case, why did SA only accept 4 teams?
As for moving North, go!
13 Feb 2012, 11:01 am
@Tacitus-86: Yes, the beams will have to come unfortunately I think.
The house has always been very secure as I used to travel a lot, but I guess this is the way the world is moving.
The northern ‘burbs in Cape Town have always been comparatively safe compared to most other areas in the past.
@the artist formerly known as gunther-87: Spaza shop??
mmmmm.
Not a bad idea. It’s about time I put my layabout 10 year old to work at something useful.
Not sure what the missus will say about it.
The spaza shop that is.
13 Feb 2012, 11:02 am
@Dawn-91: I have a gun. Several actually.
Slept through the whole flippin’ thing.
13 Feb 2012, 11:03 am
@the artist formerly known as gunther-92:
I want personal bodyguard and cute labbie.
13 Feb 2012, 11:03 am
@stormersboy-95:
I like a man with guns. Indeed.
13 Feb 2012, 11:04 am
@Dawn-91:
indeed.
stormdersboy could terrify them with his pomp action.
13 Feb 2012, 11:05 am
@stormersboy-85:
yeah… we’ve all had similar experiences…
and just deal with it…
13 Feb 2012, 11:05 am
@the artist formerly known as gunther-92:
The Dobermans get in the way of the beams, so you keep the Dobermans indoors, one in the passage and one next to your bed.
That way, even if they get over the electric fence, and under the beams, they still can’t surprise you in your bedroom. They have to get past the Doberman in the darkened passage, and step on the one next to your bed…
13 Feb 2012, 11:07 am
@Dawn-91: @the artist formerly known as gunther-92: I have this sri-aaas “oom” that lives across the road from me and he walked over when the cops were here yesterday and told them in very colourful language that we don’t take this sort of kuk in our area and that if these okes came around again that the police will nit be required.
13 Feb 2012, 11:08 am
@Brads-81:
brads…
if super rugby was not “created to extend the existing domestic game into the professional era.”
how come it has been used to strengthen and extend the existing domestic game in australia…??
13 Feb 2012, 11:08 am
@Tacitus-100: You’ve thought this through hey?
13 Feb 2012, 11:10 am
@Tacitus-100: Naaah, give me a rottenweiller over a dobie any day
Nothing like a piece of pure dark evil suddenly coming alive and rising out of nowhere and closing it’s jaws around a skinny shin to put the fear of god in a ‘home invader’
13 Feb 2012, 11:10 am
@Brads-81:
I’d be surprised if any Hemisphere would accomadate the Saffa’s………………………….knowing what we see before us now.
13 Feb 2012, 11:10 am
Whitney Houston is currently working on her new film ‘The Bodybag’.
13 Feb 2012, 11:11 am
@Jeez-26: Correct but at least the Lions won the cc, Kings = Zero Zippo
13 Feb 2012, 11:11 am
@Brads-81: the reason why the 5 SA rugby unions enjoy more support than the 5 NZ unions is because these unions have been in existence for up to 130 years. Provincialism and competition will always ensure bumper crowds and huge television numbers for SA conference matches – the NZ franchise may ensure equality for all kiwi rugby unions but the support for these franchises is non existent.
13 Feb 2012, 11:12 am
@the artist formerly known as gunther-106:
the reviews stink…
13 Feb 2012, 11:12 am
@Brads-93: whoa, all three countries accepted 4 teams each initially bud.
in fact it was less when it was s10.
why are you so angry about the possibility that saru may look north?
you guys are looking at the us and japan arent you?
13 Feb 2012, 11:13 am
What would a kings 15 for S15 look like ?/
Barry is out, Darron Nel barely out of retirement
Mbuzo/ Stick semi retired , Engels, Luke the list goes on
13 Feb 2012, 11:14 am
@stormersboy-103:
You could say that…
@Atreides-104:
The Doberman was an example. Any good guard dog will do. It’s more about warning you than actually protecting you. A Jack Russel or foxy would do just as well.
They just need to wake you before the uninvited guest gets to your room. Then all is fine. For you, that is..
13 Feb 2012, 11:14 am
@ufo-109:
I never said that?
I have an admirer.
But it’s quite amusant so I’ll let it pass.
13 Feb 2012, 11:15 am
Can someone please buy the book of Butch James so that Keo can take it off the website
13 Feb 2012, 11:15 am
@capebull-114:
Hahaha!!
13 Feb 2012, 11:16 am
Chuck Norris wears Tacitus Pyjamas.
13 Feb 2012, 11:16 am
@rangerman-88:
You seriously think the NH is an option Dangerman?
Why would they buy into this kind of bullsshit?
13 Feb 2012, 11:17 am
@cane-105: bite your tounge kiwi – do not forget that our 5 franchise teams contributes about 60% to the total SANZAR pie. That means that we are subsidizing 4 antipode teams.
13 Feb 2012, 11:18 am
@the artist formerly known as gunther-116:
Hehe. Truth is, I hope I never find myself in such a situation. But that doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t prepare for it as if it was gonna happen this very night.
13 Feb 2012, 11:20 am
@the artist formerly known as gunther-113:
huh…? what you on about…?
no… i said it…
the reviews of her new movie, “The BodyBag’… stink…
should i have put a smiley behind it…
13 Feb 2012, 11:20 am
If Chuck Norris was such a badass he’s be able to come over to my office and slam my face into my keyboakvjshakvjbaslkjUIUH>JBjbudvjsdjn>JZ;
13 Feb 2012, 11:21 am
No
comment 106.
13 Feb 2012, 11:23 am
@cane-105:
Thats a bit unfair.
SA may have domestic issues, but they also have economic clout in our neck of the woods.
However. what amazes me most of the Saffa folk is the assumption the huge income would still roll in if they moved north, or up stumps and pulled out of SANZAR in a fit of pique and went alone.
It as if they assume the interest generated locally with the likes of the Bulls, Sharks and Stormers playing the Blues, Crusaders, Reds or the Waratahs would attract the same attention as playing every other week a team like the Kings, Cheetahs etcetra
13 Feb 2012, 11:25 am
@the artist formerly known as gunther-122:
We should remember the deceased for their finest moments.
Come 2013, what will we remember about the Lions?
8)
13 Feb 2012, 11:26 am
@cane-105: Stroppy now you’ve won a world cup, aren’t you?
13 Feb 2012, 11:27 am
@Atreides-104:
no, rottweilers or doberman’s have nothing on bull-terriers breeds.
13 Feb 2012, 11:28 am
@Brads-123:
It’s not SANZAR most of us have a problem with. It’s the political meddling from our own damn government.
If they’d just leave us in peace, we would not need the cumbersome SARU decision making process, as we wouldn’t have to distrust central decision making so much.
The SARU management structure is a necessary evil to limit the influence that political meddling can have on the individual franchises. Rather be able to make NO decisions, than allow them to make autocratic decisions driven by political agendas.
13 Feb 2012, 11:28 am
@RL-118:
On that logic SA should do better on its own without having to carve off income to prop up its SANZAR partners.
13 Feb 2012, 11:29 am
You don’t have to teach a Staffie “7 steps to bite another dog”…
13 Feb 2012, 11:30 am
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…-126: I was always a boerboel guy but had a bad experience…..varkhonde and pits are also a good bet! A mate of mine has a charcoal grey pit, what a beautiful animal, and strong as an ox…wouldn’t bump into him on a dark night if I was traipsing around someone else’s house….
13 Feb 2012, 11:30 am
@the artist formerly known as gunther-122:
confusion… it’s such a terrible thing…
i’m obviously missing something here…
you cracked a joke… i thought it was funny… went with it…
no more no less…
if i stood on your funnybone… please accept my apologies…
13 Feb 2012, 11:32 am
@ufo-131:
no you fool.
It was funny.
But I didn’t crack it.
There is an impostor
13 Feb 2012, 11:32 am
@ufo-131: ELO reference?
Nice.
13 Feb 2012, 11:33 am
@Tacitus-127:
Hey, that is a given, and it is not what I orignailly commented on.
The point I raised was the observation that SA is dogged by provincialism.
You refer to the SA teams as franchises, but that is far from reality.
The SA super rugby team players are simply the elite members of the respective provincial unions.
13 Feb 2012, 11:35 am
@Brads-123: ”
“That’s a bit unfair”.”
True enough.
But how many of THEM, would have any sympathy for US . If we were so lame, as to land ourselves in the same predicament.
i.e.
5 goes onto 5 once.
But 5 divided 6 goes .83
I’m no brain surgeon for sure, but it appears Regan Hoskins ain’t either.
8)
13 Feb 2012, 11:36 am
@Brads-134:
Yes. A regional franchise in SA makes as much sense as asking Man U and Man City to combine their teams when participating in the European tournaments – Champions league I think it’s called, but I’m no soccer fundi.
Point is, the 5 main unions in SA have followings as loyal as that of Man U or Arsenal. It makes commercial sense to uses these identities in Super Rugby as well.
13 Feb 2012, 11:37 am
@Brads-128: it makes no sense being part of superrugby, we can easily afford to have an 8 team domestic Currie cup competition, with the top 4 teams qualifying for a Heineken cup type competition featuring the top qualifyying teams from the antipodes and Argentina. This superrugby is simply too long and doomed to become boring. I envy the setup that the frogs and Poms have. Packed stadiums for domestic competitions and packed stadiums for the Heineken cup.
13 Feb 2012, 11:38 am
@rangerman-80:
Mpumalanga is the Lowveld and borders Northern KZN. It actually stretches from Gauteng to KZN, but Nelspruit is closer to KZN than Gauteng.
13 Feb 2012, 11:39 am
@Atreides-125:
That’s in the past Atreides.
We all now look boldly to the future.
(Unless you are a Cheetahs or Lions fan, and it’s 50/50 your soul has been sold down the river by the SARU).
13 Feb 2012, 11:40 am
No matter how poor they might be (not even Currie Cup material), I can still see the NZ and Aus media fawning over the Kings no matter what. They will be the darling SA team in their eyes. If you are a black/brown SA rugby player you are cool and ‘IN’, Afrikaans and white then you are on the opposite end of the prejudice scale. Man, it is unbelievable how a 9% minority population is being subjected to legalised racial policies in a so-called democracy….in 2012 some 20 years after the end of Apartheid. How the western media continues to remain silent on what is REALLY happening in SA is beyond understanding. The Kings fiasco is just a small sample of the wider racialy-based social engineering well under way under the ANC government. And please don’t tell me it is justified. In SA a minority is under attack on all fronts but yet in the civilised world, everything is done to protect minorities. 800 000 Afrikaners are now very poor, many homeless but they are neglected by the government just because they are white. Silence. Strange world we live in.
13 Feb 2012, 11:40 am
@the artist formerly known as gunther-132:
oh fark…!!
fooled me… but you all know that…
how the hell do i tell you and your admirer apart…??
so we’re back to nic-stealing… why did roy can the double-nic thing…?
@stormersboy-133:
hehehe…
humour…
it’s a livin’ thing… it’s a terrible thing to lose…
13 Feb 2012, 11:43 am
@cane-135:
No one expects or gets sympathy, it works both ways.
This issue about income and where it is generated is a red herring.
NZ now demands and gets a share of the income when they play tests in the NH.
Not because they earn that domestically, but because the team generates sufficient income for host nations that not playing NZ would be a bigger financial loss than ceding a portion of the income.
13 Feb 2012, 11:44 am
@ufo-141:
dunno.
It was still funny though.
so it can’t have been grantie or capo.
13 Feb 2012, 11:45 am
@Atreides-130:
yip, solid and will fight to a standstill. an intruder would have to shoot the thing to get it to stop.
if the wife has misgivings about boerbulls or pitbulls around kids then staffie’s would do just as nicely. they are a pitbull ‘light’ version, just as gamely for a fight but a lot more loyal and loving towards humans (provided you fit into the family and friends category and not the intruder one).
13 Feb 2012, 11:46 am
@the artist formerly known as gunther-132:
Then the Imposter has your exact Nik.
Is this possible?
13 Feb 2012, 11:46 am
@itsamyth-140:
What a lot of bollox.
If a team is *****, irrespective of the racial mix, although they might get a sympathy support as triers, but no one will do any fawning as you put it.
13 Feb 2012, 11:48 am
@the artist formerly known as gunther-143:
13 Feb 2012, 11:48 am
@David-138: funny that, it takes me far longer to drive to nelspruit than to drive to jhb.
and its quicker from nelspruit to jhb than it is from durbs to jhb or durbs to nelspruit?
are you travelling like a crow david?
because most of the time the teams take busses i believe.
p.s. we have more in common with the people of ep than we do with the people of mpumalanga.
coastal y’dig?
13 Feb 2012, 11:50 am
Tac
If I come visit will your dogs attack me.
13 Feb 2012, 11:50 am
What’s all this nic stealing? Yurru but I’m hungover today. Some strange man in my bed so I had to sneak out quietly this AM. I am off whiskey for life.
13 Feb 2012, 11:52 am
@150 don’t try your luck
13 Feb 2012, 11:54 am
@cane-145:
I dunno.
But ‘ve never heard that joke before in my life.
I’ll happily claim it.
Perhaps I have been taken over by aliens.
Whatever its bound to upset khakibollocks.
I’m sure he loved Whitney.
13 Feb 2012, 11:54 am
@Dawn-150:
how long is tac in town for…?
13 Feb 2012, 11:54 am
I have an impersonator.
13 Feb 2012, 11:55 am
@ufo-153:
150 isn’t me
13 Feb 2012, 11:56 am
@Dawn-150:
Awesome effort.
Congratulations from all of us here at keo.
Ryan will you please organise some flowers.
click click.
13 Feb 2012, 11:57 am
@Brads-146: What…is my WHOLE post a lot of ‘bollox’? See, you have already given a reason/excuse as to why there might/will be ‘sympathy’. Bollox to you. Never seen an SA side get sympathy for being ‘triers’ as you diplomatically put it.
13 Feb 2012, 11:57 am
@Dawn-150: That was me. You didn’t even make me coffee.
13 Feb 2012, 11:58 am
@Dawn-154:
How disappointing.
Whoever it is.
They are good.
Very good.
13 Feb 2012, 11:58 am
@Dawn-150:
I”M SHOCKED.
13 Feb 2012, 12:00 pm
Merge the Kings and Lions. One franchise is just as broke as the other.
13 Feb 2012, 12:01 pm
@ufo-153:
8)
13 Feb 2012, 12:02 pm
@Dawn-155:
okay… someone’s obviously learned a few new tricks…
for the record…
this is me…
but i’m outta here…
any posts resembling my nic hereafter either dead or alive is purely impostidental….
@the artist formerly known as gunther-159:
that they are…
13 Feb 2012, 12:05 pm
@Dawn-149:
No invited visitors will be attacked.
13 Feb 2012, 12:13 pm
in 2005 the unions through the Presidents Council (and not SARU unilaterally) agreed to get the South Eastern Cape involved in Super Rugby through the Spears, when the time came for the Spears to join, the same unions through SARU spent over R10 million rand getting rid of the Spears through nefarious means (Regan Hoskins then presented himself as a knight in shining armour as he took charge of the endeavor to pressure both Border & SWD to sell of their shares in the Spears to a point where SA Rugby became majority shareholder and could thus override Tony Mckeever), and just for all the dunces, Cheeky Watson had nothing to do with EP Rugby at the time.
the British & Irish Lions were here in 2009 and the Southern Kings “franchise” was resurrected, now it is 2012 and the same unions supposedly have not understood/decided what the inclusion of the South Eastern Cape means in terms of the existing licences SARU holds, that is nonsense!
nothing has been sprung on these unions, they have been part and parcel of every step of this process but clearly there are deep-seated entitlement issues here. it is everyone’s wont to say the Kings must FIRST prove they’re ready and jump through all sort of hoops before they are allowed to participate in Super Rugby but the current licence holders can get up to all sort of s(hit in the meantime and there is NO accountability on their parts – lions can lose all 13 of their games if they want and they can be a financial nightmare and it’s all good.
the likes of de Klerk are panicking and speaking in tongues to save the gatte!
in a recent interview de Klerk said:
De Klerk emphasised the need for Saru to make a decision that would be in the interests of South African rugby in general.
“It (the inclusion of the Kings) has to be a rugby decision, not a political decision,” De Klerk said.
“Perhaps a Super 16 series could be the solution, and we will continue hoping that another franchise could be accommodated.
“The restructuring of the existing franchises to include the southern and eastern Cape unions is another possible solution.
now how do the current franchises serve the interests of SA Rugby in GENERAL?
what does this actually mean?
13 Feb 2012, 12:16 pm
@itsamyth-157: All of what you say is a load of bollocks… take my word for it and please don’t back chat. I have the power to accentuate your inferiority complex
You say there are 800,000 poor whites in SA??
13 Feb 2012, 12:25 pm
@youknowwho-166: you come accross as a super psychotic narcissist. Are you one? Rhetorical. Get back to your mirror and f….off for good. You won’t be reading from me again so bother keyboarding my way; just keep your biggoted racist eyes on yourself.
13 Feb 2012, 12:25 pm
Google chrome provides an automatic spell checker for your posts.. I have no more excuses
What’s up with the the aversion to competition by the Volk?? The spectre of relegation will force the franchises into merit based selections and in that respect, more black players will get an opportunity to shine. This can only be good for SA rugby, no??… the end of the Volk??… no more bulshittting??
Bring it on!!!
13 Feb 2012, 12:25 pm
that’s don’t bother
13 Feb 2012, 12:29 pm
@itsamyth-167: I told you not to back chat… the regular posters have already prepared the pop corn… ring side seats at the Colosseum
13 Feb 2012, 12:29 pm
@youknowwho-168:
” the end of the Volk??… ”
Reverse racism Shaun.
Not a good look sunshine.
13 Feb 2012, 12:31 pm
PAROW MAN ARRESTED FOR ‘MAKING UP’ ROBBERY
A Parow man lied to police about a robbery that never happened, police said on Sunday.
The 33-year-old man told police he was robbed while unlocking the door of the motor dealership where he worked, but closed circuit television showed that he stole the money, Warrant Officer November Filander said.
“He said he was robbed at 7am while opening the dealership in Voortrekker road, Parow,” said Filander.
His story was that two armed men cornered him and then fled with an undisclosed amount of cash.
Police checked the company’s CCTV footage and saw that the man had stolen and hidden the money himself and then made a false statement.
He had been charged with perjury and arrested. He would appear in the Parow Magistrate’s Court on Monday.
—
13 Feb 2012, 12:33 pm
@youknowwho-166:
shut it you poisonous toad.
13 Feb 2012, 12:39 pm
@cane-171: They made the Volk dependent of rugby success… but what would you know. The Volks culture presumes white supremacy. Its eradication will benefit humanity. The ball is in their court to change. Latest studies in respect of IQ indicate that these morons are wired to be imbeciles.
13 Feb 2012, 12:40 pm
You can see why this blog have won numerous awards.crazy stuff the order of the day.now we even have dawn engaging in sx with bloggers.soap opera at it’s best.
13 Feb 2012, 12:42 pm
@the artist formerly known as gunther-173: .. and I thought we were the best of friends. ai ai… but let me indulge
jomasepoes
13 Feb 2012, 12:42 pm
@rossoneri-172: are you saying Stormersboy is lying about his rims being stolen?
13 Feb 2012, 12:44 pm
@Transformation-177:
13 Feb 2012, 12:44 pm
@youknowwho-174: The only thing that needs to be eradicated is you, you virulent self-important little ****
13 Feb 2012, 12:46 pm
@Atreides-179: t u r d
13 Feb 2012, 12:50 pm
one car I can understand…..but two?
13 Feb 2012, 12:51 pm
@allblacksaregods-175:
no, its some blogger stealing nic’s.
seems the recent changes to the site has made this easier.
13 Feb 2012, 12:51 pm
@Atreides-179: Very sensitive?? I am immortal. My ideas are bullet proof… its impossible to eradicate me!!!
I have been watching to many super hero movies.. excuse my arrogance
13 Feb 2012, 12:53 pm
@Atreides-180: Calling yourself a t urd is not helpful… but if you must
13 Feb 2012, 12:55 pm
@youknowwho-183: ag are you back on this trip shaun?
seriously bud?
how are you by the way?
13 Feb 2012, 12:56 pm
Hi All!
Can anyone tell me if there is a keo pool on s/bru yet & what is it called?
Thanx
13 Feb 2012, 12:56 pm
Nic stealing might be a good idea to get rid of the undesirables.who would like to blog in chaos and mayhem?
13 Feb 2012, 12:59 pm
@youknowwho-183:
“too many”, not “to” many. Chrome has its weaknesses.
13 Feb 2012, 13:00 pm
I’ve got my tickets ………………….. to the Eagles at soccer city on April the 8th.
And I’m gonna get lucky afterwards.
13 Feb 2012, 13:01 pm
@rangerman-185: Alls good Rangerman..
I am always trying to save the world from imbeciles. The journey is never ending
13 Feb 2012, 13:02 pm
This Gunther chap is very funny and happy.Only a g.y person can be this happy.
13 Feb 2012, 13:02 pm
@David-188:
are you a school teacher?
13 Feb 2012, 13:02 pm
@youknowwho-184:
There are problems and there are solutions.
You Shaun are a problem.
You are an arsehole.
13 Feb 2012, 13:03 pm
@David-188: They do spelling not grammar
I obviously need to misspell a few words to dodge the censor
13 Feb 2012, 13:04 pm
@JohnX-186: if you bothered to read the comments then you’d have seen that the 3rd comment was this…
3.Slartibartfast:
13 Feb 2012, 05:10 am Less than 2 weeks to go…
Come join my Super Rugby prediction game on SuperBru! It’s free and loads of fun. Just click here:
http://www.superbru.com/superrugby/pool.asp?p=230425
Pool name: Muppits fly Business Class
Pool code: earnpent
13 Feb 2012, 13:05 pm
@the artist formerly known as gunther-192:
No, just educated and literate.
13 Feb 2012, 13:05 pm
@cane-193: You are perfectly entitled to have an opinion
13 Feb 2012, 13:06 pm
@allblacksaregods-191:
howzit my poodlefucking chum.
are you well?
still on parole?
13 Feb 2012, 13:08 pm
Nic stealing might not be a good idea to get rid of the undesirables.who would like to blog in chaos and mayhem? it would be the same as the kiwi sites, which is really just all about all balck one-eyed *** kissing imo. not chaos and mayhem but just as bad.
13 Feb 2012, 13:08 pm
@RL-189:
Why, are you dating their flyhalf?
13 Feb 2012, 13:09 pm
@David-196:
bully for you, a rarity on this site I must say, but not unique.
it’s just that you seem to enjoy correcting other people all the time.
almost as much as tackler.
who is definitely a teacher.
13 Feb 2012, 13:18 pm
@Transformation
My apologies but after that long article I just didn’t have the energy to read any more… I have the attention span of a gold fish.
13 Feb 2012, 13:19 pm
@the artist formerly known as gunther-201:
Just on the odd occasion, rather than all the time. In Seans case I was merely pointing out his vulnerability as a super hero if he was depending on Chrome to give his posts invincibility.
13 Feb 2012, 13:21 pm
@David-203:
No look by all means.
Poor Langers needs all the help he can get.
His education was a big black void.
I’ve never known anybody to be so proud of so little.
13 Feb 2012, 13:23 pm
@David-203: .. and then you went on to misspell my name .. Shaun!!!!!
I always thought Misspell was spelt with one S
13 Feb 2012, 13:25 pm
@the artist formerly known as gunther-204: To many assumptions cunter
13 Feb 2012, 13:27 pm
@youknowwho-206: Based on pretty much everything that flows from that internet cafe keyboard, I’d say it’s a fair assumption
13 Feb 2012, 13:28 pm
@youknowwho-206: you mean ‘too’
13 Feb 2012, 13:30 pm
@the artist formerly known as gunther-204: didn’t you know, he’s as sort after in the UK as extrasmall tollie is in Philly….
13 Feb 2012, 13:30 pm
@youknowwho-206:
don’t be like that langers.
do you know that in India it is considered such an achievement to get to tertiary education that it is quite common for people who drop out (for whatever reason) to put after their name the degree they were going for and the relevant institution.
for example Raj Malipeddi BA Bombay (failed).
Shaun Langenhoven BA UWC (failed).
See it’s got a certain ring to it.
Get some new business cards done immediately.
13 Feb 2012, 13:33 pm
What’s going on here?I see I’ve got two admirers….brilliant.Will return when the nick-stealing business have been sorted ou.Enjoy my two friends.
13 Feb 2012, 13:38 pm
@David-200: nooit!
13 Feb 2012, 13:41 pm
@the artist formerly known as gunther-210: Like I said, too many assumptions
I was never at UWC… My sister was and my daughter is
I did attend the odd festival
13 Feb 2012, 13:49 pm
@youknowwho-213:
that’s the beauty of it langers.
you can put whatever yo want on it!
UCT Ba (failed)
Stevenage Nightschool (failed)
It’s your baby, run with it.
13 Feb 2012, 13:58 pm
@youknowwho-205:
My apologies for using the Irish spelling.
13 Feb 2012, 14:04 pm
@youknowwho-213: Where were you on Saturday evening between the hours of midnight and 6 am?
A certain Sgt. Jones would like to ask you a few questions.
Hopefully we can get this all cleared up in no time
He says you are well known there….
13 Feb 2012, 14:05 pm
@the artist formerly known as gunther-214: Yo Cunter.. my academic credentials seem to be bothering you.. Is the whole IQ thing still bothering you. I don’t think that you are stupid.. nooit… Psychopathic but not stupid. How many black people did you greet this weekend while holding that false smile… do you throw up when you get home after a walk in the town. The stomach tends to react first to conflicts of emotion.
13 Feb 2012, 14:09 pm
@David-215: Forgiven
@stormersboy-216: I am a superhero.. your car would not have been on bricks if I was there… it would have been on your garage
13 Feb 2012, 14:09 pm
Chipolopolo!
This city is chaos today.
13 Feb 2012, 14:10 pm
@David-215:
Now now David.
Take your medicine.
The only Irish thing about our boy langers is his logic.
13 Feb 2012, 14:13 pm
@youknowwho-217:
langers why are you so upset?
I’m sure you a perfectly qualified for your station in life.
and if you must know I am working on a very important project to improve the lives of millions of the poorest rural africans.
the only upliftment you practice is lifting your fork to your overworked gob.
13 Feb 2012, 14:14 pm
@youknowwho-218: Noted.
I’ll look further then.
Carry on…
13 Feb 2012, 14:16 pm
@the artist formerly known as gunther-221: Or his platform shoes…
13 Feb 2012, 14:19 pm
Where’s that fecking nic stealer
13 Feb 2012, 14:21 pm
This debacle indicates that provincialism is at the heart of SA’s mediocrity in the rugby world.
Not transformation.
13 Feb 2012, 14:23 pm
Anyways, let the Kings play in the Super 15. If you remove your provincialist hat, and put the national interest first, their inclusion can only be good for SA Rugby.
So would the rebirth of the Cats be.
13 Feb 2012, 14:24 pm
@the artist formerly known as gunther-221: That confirms what I was saying… Only a psychopath can manage those kinds of contradictions. Helping the poor while sneering at their discomforts… Roebuck??
BTW, I worked in poverty relief for 3years besides my many other years of activism.. I have taken on a major project myself. It could save billions of lives. If you can make sense of this document then I will cut you in on the glory
http://www.ecb.int/pub/pdf/scpwps/ecbwp483.pdf
13 Feb 2012, 14:25 pm
@trupisero-223:
langers is still showboating in the reeboks he stole during the riots.
left foot size 7 right foot size 11.
but he’s making it work for him.
his buddies call him cornershop.
13 Feb 2012, 14:27 pm
@willievz-225: Willievz… good time to enter the discussion..
If you can make sense of this document then I will be eternally grateful
http://www.ecb.int/pub/pdf/scpwps/ecbwp483.pdf
13 Feb 2012, 14:28 pm
@youknowwho-229:
Did you write this document which are are unable to understand?
13 Feb 2012, 14:29 pm
@youknowwho-229: I honestly don’t have time for this, busy fighting the provincialist agenda which takes up far too much time
13 Feb 2012, 14:31 pm
I mean “you” are …
13 Feb 2012, 14:34 pm
@youknowwho-229: You know ahet they should do?
Do away with the traditional way of valuing countries and currencies and strip it down to the value of labour units.
Even the playing fields
You heard it here first
13 Feb 2012, 14:35 pm
@willievz-231: In you own time meneer… I am reading it while posting thought provoking comments here
@Dawn-230: I have questioned the authenticity of many of the things that I have written… self-admiration
13 Feb 2012, 14:36 pm
@Baylion-53:
It’s fabricated story from the Gumade’s kitchen of lokshens
The GLRU haven’t seen a cent from Itchkowitz and Gumade, when the dead line reached they bailed out
Same story of Terry Venables and Alan Suger regarding Tottenham ownership’s take over: Venables never came up with the funds.
13 Feb 2012, 14:36 pm
@stormersboy-233: Nope, that was Marx’s view
13 Feb 2012, 14:38 pm
@youknowwho-227:
langers my round brown friend, let’s be perfectly clear.
the only person I am sneering at is you.
13 Feb 2012, 14:40 pm
@willievz-225:
“sa’s mediocrity in the rugby world”..?..
that’s a tad strong dont you think.
unless by ‘mediocrity in the rugby world’ you mean the rugby world of oz, nz and sa.
13 Feb 2012, 14:41 pm
@youknowwho-236: Correct.
Communism is the new capitalism.
13 Feb 2012, 14:44 pm
Karl, Harpo or Groucho
13 Feb 2012, 14:48 pm
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…-238:
Perhaps.
But we should be the nr1 nation in the world.
By some distance.
13 Feb 2012, 14:50 pm
Anyways.
Solution is easy.
Let the Cats and the Kings play.
I don’t understand all the fuss.
13 Feb 2012, 14:52 pm
@stormersboy-239: They tried that in Stalinist Russia… Marx is turning in his grave with that statement.
The success of socialism is dependent on grassroots buy in and the formation of natural co-operatives… If you are imposing it then you are defeating it.
@the artist formerly known as gunther-237: Sneering at your screen?? take a picture and ask Keo to upload it so that I can experience discomfort
13 Feb 2012, 14:54 pm
@youknowwho-243: You and I both know that was Stalinism, not communism.
Big difference.
But you know all of that.
Anyway I’m just messing with you.
13 Feb 2012, 14:54 pm
@willievz-241:
agreed.
13 Feb 2012, 14:58 pm
@stormersboy-244: No worries
13 Feb 2012, 14:59 pm
@willievz-226: you must be a communist!
only the already elite are entitled to continue enjoying the Super Rugby largesse.
13 Feb 2012, 14:59 pm
@Tacitus-13:
Quite correct Tac, Hoskins made it clear he has forwarded the letter to the smaller unions and THEY need to decide how to go forward – no guesses in what they will decide.
Again it illustrates Hoskins is incapable of making decisions.
13 Feb 2012, 15:06 pm
@willievz-242:
exactly.
13 Feb 2012, 15:07 pm
@youknowwho-243:
13 Feb 2012, 15:08 pm
@willievz-242:
The fuss is that the Lions and Cheetahs will each get half of the money they got before.
13 Feb 2012, 15:09 pm
@youknowwho-246: Langers,your tea-break not over yet?Time to sweep Stevenage’s snow-covered streets, uct failure.
13 Feb 2012, 15:15 pm
@the artist formerly known as gunther-252: ai ai ai.. did you sneer while typing that
I actually did buy a snow shovel… snow is melting so no problem
13 Feb 2012, 15:16 pm
@Tacitus-251: A small price to pay for improving the state of SA Rugby in the long run.
13 Feb 2012, 15:19 pm
@youknowwho-253:
that is an impostor.
I would never wish physical labour upon you.
13 Feb 2012, 15:19 pm
@PissAnt-248: “incapable” or not empowered to?
what are his “powers” as SARU President? who can make a final decision on this issue, CEO, jurie roux, the Exco, the Presidents Council?
13 Feb 2012, 15:20 pm
@the artist formerly known as gunther-255: I should have known… just not you to be so horrible
13 Feb 2012, 15:22 pm
@Tacitus-251: um, what have the Lions done with the FULL amount they’ve been getting since 2006? they weren’t even paying their franchise partners. where is it written that the Lions & Cheetahs deserve full super rugby payouts?
13 Feb 2012, 15:22 pm
@stormersboy-244: If he knew that I’ll eat my shoes
13 Feb 2012, 15:26 pm
@Transformation-258: Transie would you be happy if Barry “17-0″ Geel play for the KINGS next year
13 Feb 2012, 15:27 pm
@Transformation-256:
Good question.
I suppose you would have to study the constitution to find the answer to that.
13 Feb 2012, 15:27 pm
@Atreides-259: start with the tongue
13 Feb 2012, 15:28 pm
@willievz-254: what you seem to be missing is that the “state of SA rugby” is not dependent on the EC improving, Heyneke Meyer said “keeping the same team/squad from the currie cup into super rugby improves a franchise’s chances in super rugby”.
the blacks (since they are soon to be the richest group in SA) in the EC must spend their own money to improve their lot, they need to spend on rugby boots & equipment etc. leave the likes of the Bulls to enjoy the privileges that come from being involved in Super Rugby.
13 Feb 2012, 15:34 pm
Catch you all later
13 Feb 2012, 15:35 pm
@Transformation-263: there was this wonderful SASI article about rugby in the EC late last year, if I fund I’ll post it. Basically it highlighted the difference between the haves (white scools/clubs) and the have nots! Well in SASI Cheeky was labelled the assshole of the month for paying lip service to transformation and keeping the status quo.
So why should the haves (existing super franchises) give up their spots for the have nots when all Cheeky wants is pie.
13 Feb 2012, 15:35 pm
@Transformation-263:
Glad you finally get it.
13 Feb 2012, 15:35 pm
@PissAnt-261: you see, this is what makes all the gnashing of teeth and emotional posts useless. most of us are not even clued up on the institution that we love to hate ie. SARU.
everyone is jumping on hoskins for sending the letter to the other nine unions for comment, well, as he is effectively elected by them, is he not bound to inform all of them about what decision or deliberations are the other unions make?
13 Feb 2012, 15:36 pm
Blacks need to get over this entitlement sickness.They just want,want and are not prepared to work hard for the things that my people gained through hard work.That’s the prime reason why i’ve barricaded myself in…electric fences,beams and dobermans to keep the sickness out.
13 Feb 2012, 15:36 pm
Hell my spelling is bad.
13 Feb 2012, 15:37 pm
@Transformation-263: You are talking about provincial strength, which I don’t give a damn about.
Ideally, I would like the best 150 players in the country to be divided equally between 5 franchises, to compete in a regional tournament with the Kiwis and Aussies.
The franchise should be independent of the provinces. Otherwise you will have problems like the ones we are currently seeing.
13 Feb 2012, 15:38 pm
@Tacitus-268:
Sigh. Some immature contributor falsely using my nic in post 268. Wonder who it could be…
13 Feb 2012, 15:38 pm
@willievz-260: yeah, he can play for us any day!
13 Feb 2012, 15:38 pm
@Transformation-267:
I know SARU moved to basically dissolve the president’s council since Jurie joined, I will chat to a mate of mine in SARU to find out.
13 Feb 2012, 15:40 pm
@Transformation-263: Also, the experience in Aus and NZ contradict Heyneke somewhat on that statement.
Especially the Aussies, where they don’t have the equivalent of a CC.
And the Kiwis, well they are a prime example of a nation that puts the national interest above that of the different provinces / regions. Which is partly why they are, by some distance, the best rugby nation in the world.
13 Feb 2012, 15:41 pm
@willievz-274:
I’m the one who quoted Heyeneke on that issue, and if I recall correctly he was talking from a South African point of view. He never claimed to speak for the Aussies and Kiwis.
13 Feb 2012, 15:42 pm
@Tacitus-275: I never said he spoke on behalf of the Antipodeans.
13 Feb 2012, 15:43 pm
@RL-265: thanks in advance
13 Feb 2012, 15:44 pm
@Tacitus-271:
Poodlenaaier.
13 Feb 2012, 15:44 pm
@Tacitus-251:
but they will also save half as much in running costs and expenses, no..?…
13 Feb 2012, 15:45 pm
@willievz-276:
The point is the SA teams were **** in the S12. As they gradually moved to having the same coaches and squads for the Currie Cup and S14, the continuity ensured that we started improving our performances.
Heyneke spent 5 years building the Currie Cup squad that eventually became the S14 champions in 2007.
That kind of success will not be emulated if you divorce the S15 squad from its direct Currie Cup counterpart.
13 Feb 2012, 15:49 pm
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…-279:
Meaning letting go half their players…Destroying the union.
13 Feb 2012, 15:49 pm
@willievz-270: you reckon the best 150 players in NZ are distributed equally among their franchises?
think carter, mccaw, dagg, guilford, maitland, fruean, sam whitelock, andy ellis vs anything ragtag the hurricanes have
13 Feb 2012, 15:52 pm
@Tacitus-280:
Going further, those combinations developed at Currie Cup and S14 level were crucial at Springbok level, as they were already developed units from provincial level.
I would argue it is better for Bok rugby to have 2 or 3 powerhouse unions, than half a dozen mediocre ones.
13 Feb 2012, 15:53 pm
@Tacitus-280: I follow the logic.
But – case in point – how much rugby did the Brumbies of the early 2000s play outside of Super rugby?
And how many CC matches did the Bulls’ Springboks play since 2007?
It is not the amount of rugby you play together that ultimately defines squad cohesion and a culture of efficiency. Squad experience or cohesion is but one part of the equation.
Rugby is a simple game, but one that needs complex and well defined structures for any team to be successful.
13 Feb 2012, 15:55 pm
@the artist formerly known as gunther-278: Why the obsession with the poodle?
13 Feb 2012, 15:56 pm
@David-285:
That wasn’t Gunther. It was the childish nikstealer.
13 Feb 2012, 15:57 pm
@Tacitus-283: And yet, in 2010, we did have 2 powerhouse unions who contested the Super final.
We all know how that ended for the Boks.
13 Feb 2012, 16:01 pm
@willievz-284:
I think your “problem” and I say “problem” to show how you seem at odds with the majority of SA rugby fans, is that by your own admission you don’t give two hoots about the strength of our provincial teams.
You will find that this is simply an incomprehensible position for most SA rugby fans, myself included. It’s like telling a Man U fan you don’t give a rats *** if for the good of England football Man U had to sacrifice its own wellbeing.
Incomprehensible. It’s like you watch rugby in a vacuum, from some base on the moon, with bloodless passion, and are interesting purely in the academic principles of the game known as rugby.
I cannot engage in debate with you, because the goals we are pursuing are so incompatible.
13 Feb 2012, 16:03 pm
@willievz-287: it’s not an exact science, this whole “theory” hinges on heyneke mey being in charge of everything!
pdv & his stooges were the problem
13 Feb 2012, 16:04 pm
@Tacitus-288: Fair dues. Our ideologies differ too much.
I refer back to my earlier statement that provincialism is the ultimate enemy of SA Rugby, not transformation.
As long as we put club / province before country, the Boks will never be the strongest team in the world. Provincialist supporters need to accept this.
The England football team suffers the same fate, and has done so for a while now.
13 Feb 2012, 16:06 pm
@Tacitus-288: BULLSHIT, Man YOO contribute S(HIT to the wellbeing of English Football!
when was the last time the ENGLISH football team won anything? you probably don’t know the answer to that but you’re willy nilly yapping about man yoo.
how many english players actually play for Man Yoo, Tac?
and how many of them are of international quality?
13 Feb 2012, 16:09 pm
@Transformation-291:
The fact that there are very few English players in the top English Premiership teams is indicative of how the English nation puts club before country.
13 Feb 2012, 16:15 pm
@Tacitus-281:
why would it destroy either of the unions? it may destroy a franchise yes (which is sort of the point when merging two franchises) but the two respective unions could still exist in relative independence of one another running at their traditional costs while a single franchise can be maintained using the resources previously available to two seperate franchises, thus meaning they could keep the best of two sets of players, two revenue sources, two coaching setups and so and so…
13 Feb 2012, 16:16 pm
@Tacitus-288: FYI, just like the Irish Rugby Association, the English FA that runs football in England has introduced QUOTAS for every club, clubs are to have more english born or “raised” players in their squads. which is why a clun like Man City let Craig Bellamy go so that they could keep the likes of Teves, Ballotelli as their foreign contingent.
it’s of no use for Chelsea to play Man Yoo in the CL final when 80% of the players involved are NOT English.
13 Feb 2012, 16:18 pm
@willievz-292: ek weet
13 Feb 2012, 16:21 pm
@Transformation-294:
I think you missed my entire point.
I wasn’t saying that Man U contributed to English football’s performance on the international stage. I was actually saying that for most Man U fans, they would not accept a weakening of Man U if it somehow benefited English football as a whole.
And I was saying there’s nothing wrong with that, because in the modern age the nation state is becoming less of a uniting factor, with people increasingly forming their identities around their communities or other localised points of convergence.
People care less about their national teams, and more about their clubs. This is reality of the 21st century, and only likely to increase as population sizes grow.
13 Feb 2012, 16:28 pm
@willievz-292: look, a guy like Tacitus would prostitute himself to any Russian oligarch and have romanian players running on the Loftus just so he can brag that the Bulls have more Super rugby itles than anyone else.
13 Feb 2012, 16:30 pm
@Transformation-297:
Not true. I am rather happy that we haven’t gone the route of the Sharks, with their French imports.
13 Feb 2012, 16:38 pm
@Tacitus-296: is that now your pretext to justify emigrating to Perth?
hehehe
13 Feb 2012, 16:41 pm
@Tacitus-298: And if McCaw, Carter and Dagg make themselves available for the Bulls?
13 Feb 2012, 16:43 pm
@Tacitus-298: well, if you use Man Yoo as an example, you might as well as go the whole hog, china.
who owns
Man Yoo – Americans (The Glazers)
Chelsea – a Russian (Abramovich)
Liverpool – Americans
Man Citeh (Saudi Arabians) Sheikh Manseur
13 Feb 2012, 16:44 pm
If provincialism is really the pulsating force in SA Rugby and in the world, then it is inevitable that at some point in a professional era the wealthiest franchises would import the best players, regardless of nationality.
We might sit with a Bulls team featuring 6 Kiwis, 6 Saffas,21 Aussies and 1 talented Argentinian prop in 15 year’s time.
13 Feb 2012, 16:44 pm
@willievz-290:
I am with Tac on this one, even though he is a bull. Provincialism, natural selection, cannibalism, survival of the fittest is the only way to go. It has been like that for over a hundred years. No way can kiwi socialism work here.
Now if that means only 3-5 strong unions then so be it. The 9 country unions just have to continue being food for the big 5 …. now Willie as a Griqua you know this to be true.
13 Feb 2012, 16:48 pm
@RL-303: Ok. Then you too need to accept provincialism as the biggest stone in the shoe for SA Rugby, and stop blaming other factors like transformation for our issues.
13 Feb 2012, 16:50 pm
@RL-303:
and as a lion so do you….
13 Feb 2012, 16:53 pm
@willievz-300: Would never happen , the Bulls siss !
13 Feb 2012, 16:54 pm
@Tacitus-286:
That wasn’t me either.
13 Feb 2012, 16:54 pm
@willievz-304: I only blame incompetence, Lions literally sit on a gold mine and should absolutely dominate all.
@au revoir mon tout noirs, au revoir…-305: there was a time when Lions feasted on Bull, hell man the Lions won a RWC!
13 Feb 2012, 16:57 pm
Who is imposting everyone else here!
13 Feb 2012, 16:59 pm
@willievz-300:
No, I would not welcome that.
13 Feb 2012, 17:02 pm
@RL-308:
true…true…that they did… and for which we are eternally gratefull.
but as dylan sang ‘the times they have a’ changed’…. and boy… have they changed…
10 out of 16 last place finishes aint pretty for nobody… less so a team of rwc winners…
13 Feb 2012, 17:13 pm
@Tacitus-310:
Would you feel the same way if the Bulls was a bottom-of-the-table team?
What is the difference between recruiting Dagg or Viljoen?
You mentioned that the nation state is losing relevance in the modern age – surely then the colour of players’ passports don’t matter?
13 Feb 2012, 17:19 pm
Sort your mess out saru,sanzar not going to bail you out on this one.You relegated the Stormers once,so give the lions also a chance.
13 Feb 2012, 17:32 pm
@willievz-312: that’s the hypocrisy of tacitus
as long as the Bulls haven’t profitted from it, it is kak.
he can laud Todd Louden for ostensibly transforming the Bulls backline but sneer @ the Sharks for drafting French and Argentine Flyhalfs.
13 Feb 2012, 17:36 pm
@willievz-312: oh s(hit, i forget, Heyneke Meyer brought in Todd Louden so that makes that call a stroke of genius
13 Feb 2012, 17:40 pm
I believe Meyer isn’t as narrow-minded as Tacitus .
13 Feb 2012, 17:41 pm
@Transformation-315:
And Jake brought in Eddie Jones and that call was a stroke of desperation.
13 Feb 2012, 17:49 pm
Kak day, had no time but this looks like an interesting discussion. Summary? Anyone?
13 Feb 2012, 17:51 pm
@PissAnt-318: nothing new chap, just the usual snapping at the ANC Southern Kings
13 Feb 2012, 17:52 pm
@PissAnt-318:
Provincial Plodders v. Franchise Globe Trotters.
13 Feb 2012, 17:55 pm
@Transformation-319: @David-320:
Damn and there I thought it was interesting for a second!
13 Feb 2012, 18:08 pm
Frankly I don’t give a rats asss if the kings play next year.
10 points in the bag for the other sa teams competing.
Australia is allready doing it.
I feel sorry for the lions, they will probably be relegated, but i cant stand laughing at them anymore in super rugby. Time to laugh at a new team.
13 Feb 2012, 18:20 pm
@David-320: I’m all for the franchise system as long as they are based in the 5 biggest cities keeping the name and jersey of the host union. If not well end up with nothing brands like the Hurricanes, Chiefs, Stormers and Cats ……… devoid of all support.
13 Feb 2012, 18:21 pm
After all is said and done, I will be surprised, no, VERY surprised if the Kings play next year.
SA Rugby just buying time, as they did since 2006. It becomes easy because those they ‘fight’ against changes all the time.
And let’s be honest, it would be easy to make Cheeky Watson public enemy #1 – much easier than what it was with Tony McKeever.
13 Feb 2012, 18:21 pm
@Mr Black-322: eina.
dont laugh at transies team, they are world beaters or at the very least only as kuk as the lions
13 Feb 2012, 18:24 pm
@RL-323: exactly you can like to talk sense sometimes my hairy knuckle dragging aquaintance.
who wants to support the ratels or the ****** bushcats or whoever, give me the sharks thanks.
once the lions are gone, we will welcome you to the fold bud dont worry.
13 Feb 2012, 18:28 pm
My thoughts:
For 2013 let the Kings play in the place of the Lions. Give them a year to sort out their business. After that, I would go with a my super plan which goes as follows:
Each nation commit to doing away with regional franchises and revert to provincial teams. I would love to see Griquas playing against North Harbour. It’s time for some spice.
Each nation commit to having the top 5 teams in their home tournament (yes that means Aussie would have to create their own) be the qualifiers for the Super tournament. All players playing for non-qualifiers would be entered into a national draw whereby the top 5 teams can draft players on a one at a time.
This would add value and interest to the local competitions.
Two other pipe dreams:
I would also do away with local derbies altogether, making it that all teams only play 10 games against foreign opposition, 5 home and 5 away. This would do away with the stale nature of the current structure.
I would make it madatory that teams only be allowed to have one player who is not eligible for that country. For example, the Sharks could only play Michalak and no other foreigner.
13 Feb 2012, 18:35 pm
The Lions wants to be the Manchester United of world rugby ….according to Kevin de Klerk.
13 Feb 2012, 18:37 pm
@rangerman-326: the less I hear from the guppies and thier supporters, the more I like them. Keep it up and they may become my second most favorite team.
13 Feb 2012, 18:39 pm
@RL-323:
I actually disagree.
I would like to see 5 franchise licenses offered to the highest bidders (professional businessmen/consortiums/etc).
These organisations then bid for their ‘host cities’, ie. courting local municipalities (JHB, PTA, CPT, Bloem, DBN, PE, wherever) and unions in those areas (they need players afterall) from which they then ‘pick’ their favourite bidder and enter into an agreement (for the duration of the license they were awarded).
As an example, Rupert will court the City of Cape Town, WP Rugby, Boland Rugby to ‘operate’ as a SupeRugby franchise in that region.
So there are two stages – SA Rugby puts 5/6 franchise license up for grabs – private businesses submits their proposal in order ‘buy’ / ‘win’ these licenses (conditions attached).
With a franchise license they will approach various teams (unions) /cities in SA in order to establish their ‘base’ or host city (conditions attached).
Conditions attached means these businesses/consortiums will have to invest in SA Rugby (buy the license) and the cities/unions (using their players/stadiums).
If these negotiations end up that the PTA team is still called the Bulls and they use Loftus as their host stadium, then so be it.
Idea that was mentioned to me by someone – he was a lot more detailed than this post but I am really too tired to go into detail – but it is quite an interesting concept I reckon.
13 Feb 2012, 18:46 pm
Keo’s website is as s hit as the Lions.
13 Feb 2012, 18:46 pm
@PissAnt-330:
Simple question: Why?
Why destroy the fan bases that have been built up over 100 years and largely transferred straight onto the respective Super rugby teams?
Why mess with a franchise that gathers fanatical support the like of which the Bulls currently enjoy. Will those Bulls fans be happier if their team now encompasses Pretoria and Joburg?
Will the Sharks fans be happier if their team is now called the KZN Impis and wear Red jerseys?
Why mess with something which makes the fans of all the big unions happy a pigs in mud? Who are you trying to please here, if not the fans?
Why destroy that which they hold precious? In reality you know the Currie Cup has been devalued and will become increasingly meaningless, which means that a fanatical Bulls fan will no longer be able to live his passion for his team at the highest level, if you do away with the current union based system?
Why do that? Just to help out some begging freeloaders in the Eastern Cape?
13 Feb 2012, 18:50 pm
Ranger @ 326
Redphussy must first go through qualifying school before he can support the Sharks.
Wildebeest supporter – 1 Year
U21 supporter – 6 Months
CC supporter – 1 Year
Then after handing in his thesis of how kakkas the lions are he can start to support our Super rugby team.
13 Feb 2012, 18:54 pm
@PissAnt-330: interesting, but it will not happen. The Sharks and province will block it with all their might – Rupert will target Cape Town stadium. The City will undercut any offer Tightass makes for Newlands. Same thing with the City of Durban. Those stadiums are game changers and you can bet your life savings that unions will torpedo any such plan.
At the end of the day the best option would be to drop the 49% limit and let the union suits do what they want to do … grab the money, enrich themselves and step aside for the professionals.
13 Feb 2012, 19:00 pm
Didn’t we go through this yesterday
13 Feb 2012, 19:01 pm
@RL-323:
The few times I’ve been to Ellis Park lately, I wouldn’t call the Lions “devoid of all support”. I definitely remember seeing a couple of elderly gentlemen in red shirts passed out in the main stand.
13 Feb 2012, 19:03 pm
Hell that is one big cannon! What are they planning on doing with it ….. blow up the Maties change room.
13 Feb 2012, 19:06 pm
@David-336: dronkies man, dronkies.
13 Feb 2012, 19:07 pm
@Tacitus-332:
I thought the Bulls were only 74 years old.
13 Feb 2012, 19:08 pm
@Tacitus-332:
Quite simple really. To ensure the continued success of rugby and rugby development at all levels in SA.
But then again, all your posts on this subject makes it clear that the big 5 should own everything and screw the rest of SA and the other 9 unions.
Problem I have with that is that 100 000 (players) does not divide that well into 5 (unions).
I support any solution that;
a) Ensures we keep on developing rugby talent not only in the major cities of this country but everywhere
b) Is professional, and cuts the freeloading gravy train amateurs down to a minimum.
13 Feb 2012, 19:10 pm
@RL-334:
Ja neh – amateurism rocks.
13 Feb 2012, 19:23 pm
@PissAnt-340:
Interestingly, in a conversation we had with Oregan and Johan Prinsloo a few years back,, they were concerned that the number of white kids playing rugby had declined alarmingly and that the future of the game lay in growing it amongst the black communities. This had nothing to do with having more black players in the Boks or S14 and CC, but increasing the popularity of the game itself.
The choice here is whether you put your love of a particular team or your love for the game of rugby first.
13 Feb 2012, 19:25 pm
@David-342:
Your last sentence sums it up. As much as I love the history of unions in SA, and provincial rivalry and how it has contributed to our game in SA for over 100 years – out perceived strength might just end up in being or biggest weakness.
On the decline – its quite evident – just look at the drop in numbers in schools rugby and club rugby.
13 Feb 2012, 19:31 pm
What’s with this pink ball …. hell no doubt the idea came from Cape Town.
13 Feb 2012, 19:32 pm
Even the score banner is pink.
13 Feb 2012, 19:38 pm
@David-342: And your love for the national team.
13 Feb 2012, 19:38 pm
@PissAnt-340:
Let’s cut through the ****. I think there is a fundamental disconnect between the old farts at the IRB, and the common fan on the ground.
I couldn’t care less about the growth of the game – in SA or internationally.
Rugby is not a cause in itself anymore than badmington or bowls is. Rugby is a vehicle through which I gain emotional satisfaction. Simple as that.
If I grew up in America, it would’ve been American Football. But I grew up here, so it’s rugby.
I cannot conceive of a situation where my emotional satisfaction can be increased beyond the level it reaches when the Bulls clobber their opposition. That’s why I pay DSTV subscriptions, and that’s why I watch rugby.
Anything that threatens to interfere with that emotional satisfaction will naturally be opposed by me.
And I am not alone. At the heart of it, if they had the self awareness to analyse their motivations, emotional satisfaction is what is behind the interest of the vast majority of rugby fans.
Not an appreciation for the intrinsic beauty of the game or some such hogwash.
We don’t care about hypothetical, intangible benefits to this or that community of rugby players. We just want to see the team we love run out and clobber the team we hate. For the emotional satisfaction of it.
13 Feb 2012, 19:43 pm
@PissAnt-343:
You know, black rugby in the Eastern Cape (the old SARU) has a far longer history and tradition than the Bulls or Lions. I wonder if, during the Bulls “building period” under Meyer, they had no S14 franchise. Would they have attracted or retained the players that eventually took them to the heights they eventually attained? Personally I doubt it. Even during those times the intensely loyal Blue Bull fans that Tacitus referred to, deserted in droves.
13 Feb 2012, 19:46 pm
@Tacitus-347:
Ha ha, the truth and nothing but the truth.
I cant fault your reasoning tact.
13 Feb 2012, 19:47 pm
@Tacitus-347: well I can relate … for me it is Lions first … Boks second.
13 Feb 2012, 19:49 pm
@David-348:
The funny thing is that you keep talking about black rugby when you talk about EP, and i just dont get it! Last time i looked the EP Kings looked very white to me.
Boland has more black players, and better players as well.
Go figure.
13 Feb 2012, 19:51 pm
@willievz-346:
Yes, which is where NZ places its priority. As does Germany in soccer.
13 Feb 2012, 19:52 pm
@RL-350:
Lots of South Africans with that mindset.
Some even have the boks 3rd, after Crusaders and NZ’land.
13 Feb 2012, 19:53 pm
@Tacitus-347:
And that is the problem, and why we are not on the same page.
You confirmed it yourself (5 times actually in one post) – you judge all of this on ‘emotion’, not logic.
I have told (or asked) you this before…
Where was all that ‘emotion’ at the turn of the century when I (a WP supporter living in PTA) bought season tickets at a steal for Loftus only to sit in an empty, 50 000 seater stadium when the Bulls played?
Your team is riding the crest of a wave right now Tac, but if a game controlled by amateurs proved one thing for over a century, it is that the hype will be short-lived because a game (or any organisation) run by amateurs dependent on supporters’ (you) emotional investment you WILL hit rock bottom again at some stage – as has happened with all SA unions in the past…
Problem you (and all of us) sit with now (like the Lions situation proves), in a professional environment (since 1996 only), the consequences are far more damaging than what you would like to admit.
13 Feb 2012, 19:59 pm
@Mr Black-351:
I mentioned promoting the game amongst the black community. As the EC has a massive number of players it also means that their communities are rugby fans. A franchise in the EC would provide a focal point and identity for the game in the area. The racial composition has less to do with the support for the Franchise as the Bulls players from the WP affects their fans loyalty.
It does however ensure that talented black players in the EC have a reason to stay and possibly play S15 rugby.
13 Feb 2012, 20:07 pm
@David-355:
You and PA keep telling Tac that his Provincial bias above National is wrong yet you say in this post that “A franchise in the EC would provide a focal point and identity for the game in the area.” So why cant this community identify with the boks? Why do they need their province to play super rugby before they can identify with rugby?
Jou dag en nag praatjies stem nie ooreen nie David.
13 Feb 2012, 20:10 pm
We’ve been at it since yesterday and still we are none the wiser as to exactly how the Kings will enter the SupeRugby mix…I believe that puts us in the same position as SARU (which illustrates just how hopeless the organisation is).
13 Feb 2012, 20:11 pm
Pissant
Did you see the banner flashed for you in Potch?
13 Feb 2012, 20:12 pm
To add – the Lions were the most powerfull union (club) in world rugby 12 to 15 years ago – right now (if reports are to be believed) they have liabilities of R80-mil and an income of R40-mil.
The business world does not give a **** about 100 or so years of history – creditors will file for liquidation of a company (organisation/union) in a heartbeat if they are owed money.
If we don’t change how we run this game in SA, your precious Bulls (Lions, WP, Sharks, whoever) will not even exist to support anymore.
13 Feb 2012, 20:14 pm
@Mr Black-356:
Securing a ‘national future’ for our game is my priority. I am not saying that my suggestions are right and the best around, but I am saying if we carry on as we are now – we are screwed.
@Mr Black-358:
Missed it, what did it say?
13 Feb 2012, 20:17 pm
@PissAnt-360:
Nortier jou dier!
13 Feb 2012, 20:17 pm
@Rage-357:
You’ll just have to wait until the SARU AGM on March 31 for that answer. Get your tickets early.
Anything prior to that is just a guessing game.
But right now, Sanzar hold all the aces.
13 Feb 2012, 20:22 pm
@Mr Black-361:
Haha, I saw a tweet on Twitter and though WTF?
13 Feb 2012, 20:22 pm
Guys I am out for about an hour, later.
13 Feb 2012, 20:24 pm
@ IAAS…Why bother with tickets? the Keo team will be there !
Speaking of franchises,did you guys hear what the name of the new T20 cricket franchise will be? They will be known as….wait for this….
the NEW AGE IMPI!
Hehehehe
13 Feb 2012, 20:26 pm
Not the Zumababies?
13 Feb 2012, 20:30 pm
@ gunther…sadly not,however it is expected that most people will call them the NAIers.
13 Feb 2012, 20:33 pm
@Rage-367:
13 Feb 2012, 20:37 pm
Howdy folks
13 Feb 2012, 20:38 pm
@Captain Jack-369:
Howdy Mr Daniels
13 Feb 2012, 20:40 pm
Maties offside at the ruck and getting rewarded like the AB’S
13 Feb 2012, 20:47 pm
Skinstad seems very dissapointed every time pukke do something good.
Love it!
13 Feb 2012, 20:53 pm
Maties take a dramatic win with a last minute try.
13 Feb 2012, 20:55 pm
Maties are the All Blacks of the varsity cup.
However the performance of the Pukke crowd during the national anthem was disgusting.
13 Feb 2012, 20:56 pm
@the artist formerly known as gunther-374:
What did they do?
13 Feb 2012, 20:57 pm
@the artist formerly known as gunther-374:
What did they do?
13 Feb 2012, 21:07 pm
Maties pulled through.
That’s my boys.
Close call though.
13 Feb 2012, 21:18 pm
Ha ha, hearing old Bladen’s “UNBELIEVABLE” when Goosen’s long range kick went over reminded me of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGhWzI_6xK0
Kaksnaaks.
13 Feb 2012, 21:19 pm
@stormersboy-377:
Yo stormersboy…. how was the 99′er??
13 Feb 2012, 21:25 pm
@Bod-379: Fine thanks.
Won one of the prizes.
A Titan MTB from Chris Willemse.
True story.
13 Feb 2012, 21:32 pm
Sang half the anthem.
13 Feb 2012, 21:35 pm
@the artist formerly known as gunther-381:
Why do they have the anthem sung at Varsity games in any case?
13 Feb 2012, 21:39 pm
@Tacitus-382: To show that they’re transformed. One anthem = 3 quota players.
13 Feb 2012, 21:41 pm
So they sang half the anthem so what
13 Feb 2012, 21:43 pm
Stormersboy did you win the best dressed prize?
13 Feb 2012, 21:47 pm
@the artist formerly known as gunther-385: Nope.
Lucky draw.
No lycra.
Cycling baggies all the way.
13 Feb 2012, 21:50 pm
Tac
Thanks for sharing your personal views as to why you watch rugby. All very insightful. Don’t however make the mistake of thinking that your view represents anything like the majority view.
In fact I’d suggest that most people (1) want to see rugby actively grow in new markets; and (2) place the Springboks higher than any province.
Jeez, the tri nations and 6 nations teams competing amongst themselves gets a bit boring after a while. Imagine if Russia, Georgia, USA and China (for example purposes only) one day become as strong as say, Wales, Argentina, Scotland and Ireland? Or dare I say it, Australia, France, England, SA? Awesome. Viva growth, viva expansion. Viva change.
Up the Boks and up my province but down with any selfish laager provincial mentality which gets in the way of the Boks.
13 Feb 2012, 21:50 pm
@>^..^< katman-383:
Ah, good thinking.
13 Feb 2012, 22:07 pm
@stormersboy-386:
Now that you have the new MTB you got to switch to Lycra.
Baggies are for surfers and beach bums
Great steal by Maties- They will probably now go ahead and win the tournament as per usual- the only Matie player who really impressed me was the number 8 (Swanepoel I think)
Did you see that the Nelson Mandela Metropolitan University (PE) beat the Shimlas tonight In Bloem?
There is indeed hope for the Kings.
13 Feb 2012, 22:40 pm
Great try finished off by Kirchner. Bulls looking pretty slick. Stander looks a better bet than Spies.
13 Feb 2012, 23:24 pm
@stormersboy-380: Whaaaaaat??
How did that happen?
OK I see… lucky draw. Is it a doble or rigido?
Did you check Bods drop in at the Connundrum??
13 Feb 2012, 23:29 pm
@Bod-391: A doble or rigido? Are you asking whether the draw was a gamble or rigged in your pidgin Spanish?
14 Feb 2012, 00:56 am
@Bod-391:
There are 3 options these days at that particular spot:
a. The drop off (for the insane)
b. The rocky ride (for the fairly accomplished)
c. The chicken run
During the mtb section of the 99er the riders were directed to follow the chicken run as it was only a fun ride and it would have been a bad advertisement for the organisers if some novice broke his neck attempting that drop.
14 Feb 2012, 02:10 am
Gary Gold may well be a nice bloke but he has to come up with something original.
His comments about “Sthern clubs playing to win ……….. was exactly word for word the quote from Graham Henry a month ago. C’mon Gary. Something new please.
14 Feb 2012, 04:57 am
I just know this: if any of teh current five are relegated, then expect SARU to be sued by the one getting relegated. You cannot just spring relegation on these unionsa fter they have signed sponsorship contracts with all and sundry, and those sponsors expect that their name will on super rugby broadcasts for the next three years.
FFS are SARU that dumb that they never learned NOTOPNE FREAKING THING from the Southern Spears?
They really are just a bunch of AMATEURS. and I say that in the nastiest possible way. they really just have no clue when it comes to business, do they? I would have expected a lawyer like Hoskins to know better…
14 Feb 2012, 06:39 am
@Mr Black-333:
@PissAnt-330: seriously PA?
no, i must disagree with you here.
why should i suddenly become a supporter of some businessmans wet dream?
not even the premier league in pomland works that way, there is a reason abromobitch bought chelsea and not some fanciful new team whose support he could not predict.
14 Feb 2012, 06:50 am
SARU can solve this problem efficiently and effectively if they have the leadership, political will and good old intestinal fortitude.
Abolish the current 5 franchises and replace them with 5 new ones that are not linked to the current provinces that participates in the run of the mill South African local competitions. The players should then be contracted by SARU directly as is the case in New Zealand.
This will also solve heaps of other issues for SARU as they will then, for example, be able to decide when certain players should be rested if at all. SARU will then also be able to contract players in such a way that national combinations play for the same franchise, etc.
The question is if we have people with enough courage and vision to follow through on this. I believe that the new CEO of SARU, Jurie le Roux, is such a man. Unfortunately he still have to deal with the same kind of, myopic and self interested, administrator that have characterised South African Rugby through the ages. And no, it is not true of only the white, Afrikaans speaking administrator. Look at Western Province, Golden Lions, etc.
South African Rugby need someone with massive “cohones” to fix this issue. In the mean time I will sit in lovely Tasmania and hear how the Aussies and the World Champs laugh at another amateurish effort from SA Rugby to dictate to SANZAR how and what to do. They still treat South African like the Japies (Yarpies) that they once accused them of being, country yokels that can and should be put in their place regularly.
14 Feb 2012, 06:55 am
@Bod-391: Rigido. fairly entry level but a decent bike nonetheless. Might take it out for a ride this weekend.
14 Feb 2012, 07:02 am
@Coach Oompie-397: that is exactly the same fix that pa suggests oompie.
what a load of bollocks.
aus and nz franchises are practically broke, ever sit back in that bush island and wonder why?
its because they dont really have a fanatical fan base for their franchises compared to the traditional big five provinces in south africa so they attract very few fans to the games and consequently very few sponsors comparitively.
funnily enough, this seems to be changing in aus whilst the nz franchises drown but thats because oz never had traditional regional structures so people are jumping on board now and it is benefitting oz massively whilst we japies pay for their rugby to grow.
perhaps instead of laughing they should be thanking us, the rugby supporting public of south africa, who make up 60-70% of the viewership and revenue stream of sanzar rugby?
as for central contracting,*** that. we arent commies. do we really want a team like the crusaders loaded with bok players so it can win superrugby every year whilst the rest of the teams are left to wallow in mid table mediocrity?
who decides which team will be the special one?
saru?
lmao!
nah, rather embrace your new convict chums and celebrate with them whilst they laugh at us, we undersatnd they know fokkol about class or tradition in rugby because they dont have any compared to us.
14 Feb 2012, 07:08 am
Quick single to bring up the 400….
14 Feb 2012, 07:12 am
@rangerman-399:
It is like when I try to fix the iron, I end up with spare parts and then have to chuck the whole thing away!
The current 5 teams have been at the top of the tree for many years and no matter how kuk the Lions or Cheetahs do, they still miles better than whoever is next in line.
14 Feb 2012, 08:43 am
@rangerman-399:
The reason for NZs problems with their franchises has been the lack of outside finance, unlike SA. They’re now changing that.
Auckland – The New Zealand Rugby Union has opened the path to outside investment in their Super rugby franchises, inviting bidders to buy management licenses in four of the union’s five teams in the southern hemisphere competition from 2013.
The NZRU would retain the ownership of the Auckland Blues, Waikato Chiefs, Wellington Hurricanes and Canterbury Crusaders and be responsible for contracting of playing and coaching staff, the NZRU said in a statement on Friday.
The Otago Highlanders, the other New Zealand side in the southern hemisphere competition, would not be included, NZRU chief executive Steve Tew said in the statement, as they were already seeking other opportunities.
“This is an early phase to get a real view of the level of interest in an opportunity to be associated with New Zealand’s brand of rugby and what is considered to be the world’s best rugby competition,” Tew said.
The decision has been mooted for some time by the NZRU, who have been forced at various times to bail out all of the Super rugby teams, which are run by the provinces, and a number of domestic provincial sides.
The NZRU will also underwrite about NZ$10 million ($7.8 million) of the operating loss from the recent rugby World Cup in New Zealand. Tew said during the tournament the NZRU stood to lose about NZ$13 million this year because of the World Cup cutting into sponsorship, television and gate revenues.
The successful licensee would have the right to manage, operate, select and promote the team brand and the matches played by that team.
Their revenue-generating opportunities would include naming rights and non-rugby activities, but the teams would have to remain in New Zealand as part of the license agreement.
14 Feb 2012, 09:01 am
@David-402: yes david, i saw that.
but who wants to “manage” a team where you have no say over the playing staff?
no one.
so again, central contracting will lead to issues.
its no wonder they are leaving out the highlanders, they have done it for years already. would you buy the canes when you know the blues and crusaders will be loaded with all blacks and you will get scraps?
no bud, you wouldnt.
and anyways, that announcement was made last year already, where is the news on the rush of investors?
hmmm…….
14 Feb 2012, 09:09 am
@rangerman-403:
Here is a question…
Do you believe the current setup in SA is working?
Simple yes or no.
14 Feb 2012, 09:16 am
@Robzim-393:
Seeing as though I built the damn thing, I would have to have tried all three out and yip, as far as I know there are only three people that have nailed the drop off, with bod and bod jnr being two of them.
Most downhillers would breeze it, but they couldnt be bothered getting up that mountain..
14 Feb 2012, 09:21 am
@PissAnt-404: cmon PA, do you seriously expect a simple yes or no to that question?
lets rather have a chat about it bud?
we have won 3 out of the last 5 superrugby titles so that part seems to be functioning well.
our unions are infinitely more profitable than the kiwi unions (barring the loser lions of course but they seem to getting back on track).
crowd numbers in sa dwarf those of anywhere in the southern hemisphere. (i think the stormers drew nearly as many spectators as the whole aussie conference last year? maybe i am wrong on this one though)
we have appointed a coach who may take us to another level…or not? lets see.
yes, i want a better run central body but i am an african and history has taught me that centrally run bodies with too much clout are a recipe for disaster.
14 Feb 2012, 09:31 am
@rangerman-406:
Profitable? Unfortunately not. More profitable than the Kiwis and Aussies, perhaps – but every single union in SA with the exception of the Bulls I imagine is struggling to keep themselves afloat.
Crowd numbers were actually down in 2011 from 2010 – the only increase in numbers were Australian TV audience numbers – the rest all took a dip.
3 out of the last 5 – good show on the face of it, but when you consider only 3 of 5 franchises (most of the time only 2) are anywhere close to competitive then it paints a different picture.
SA has infinitely more resources than Aus and Kiwi’s combined, and look at where we find ourselves year after year.
If this is something that is working, I would hate to see failure.
14 Feb 2012, 09:41 am
@PissAnt-407: struggling to keep themselves afloat?
no bud, you cannot be referring to the sharks? stormers maybe?
obviously aussie audiences increased, they now have a domestic comp but that isnt the full story pa, what were the audience numbers?
the aussies have what, two competitive teams and the kiwis have three at a push?
and i dont really consider the canes or chiefs or highlanders as perennial contenders do you?
whilst the sharks, bulls and stormers have all been contenders over the last few years?
yes, the aussies won last year because of a ridiculous format that punishes the stronger conferences (nz and sa) and rewards them. its no coincidence they hadnt supplied a finalist in years before last year.
no bud, externals must be taken into account and whilst there is room for improvement i personally am not willing to simply transfer my support, generated over decades, to some fanciful new team that is a businessmans pet project and i suspect i am in the majority here.
why do you think the varsity cup is such a success crowds wise? ready made support base bud.
and it draws regular crowds the kiwis and aussies wish they had for ANY rugby.
14 Feb 2012, 11:08 am
@rangerman-408:
2 years ago it was published that the only union in SA that showed an actual operational profit was… wait for it… the GRIFFONS!
Now granted that was 2 years ago, I did not see much change from any union in the recent past to suggest that things are much better…
Unfortunately unions are very loathe to make their audited financials available (I wonder why…) so all we can go on is what is reported.
As for the various teams and countries performances…
Only ONE SA team averages a 50% win ration (Stormers). Sharks and Bulls are close behind but still, in the 40′s.
Brumbies and Tahs both average in the mid to high 50′s, with the Reds on 48%.
If memory serves the Force started the same time as the Cheetahs in SupeRugby? Force 36% win ration, Cheetahs 27%
NZ is a different story altogether, two teams are in the 60′s (Saders & Blues) with Canes in the 50′s.Chiefs and Highlanders are mid 40′s.
Overall, Kiwi’s win 54% of their matches (central contracting model), Aus 43% (including the newbies Rebels which won only 19% and they have no local competition or depth) and SA…39%
We are almost 20% behind the Kiwi’s considering rugby as a whole in both countries! And it shows at test level too.
As far as ‘pet projects’ go…
Investing millions into any business is hardly what I would call a ‘pet project’ – it will be 100% success driven to get a ROI. In fact the term ‘pet project’ much easier describes the current situations where rugby (teams) is a pet project of hopefully out of depth amateurs who has zero financial or operational accountability.
Here is what I struggle to get.
SA Rugby runs like government in this country where incompetent idiots are voted into power.
Every single day I have to hear about how pathetic and useless our government is because of this (zero accountability, squandering of resources and funds and little actual success).
Yet most on here now wants to ‘protect’ that system in rugby? Because of what? Emotional attachment?
Go figure.
My point is quite simple.
Get rid of amateurism in rugby, it is going to destroy the game.
14 Feb 2012, 11:26 am
@PissAnt-409: well it would be interesting to see true financials but teh feeling i get is that our rugby is in a far better place wrt finances than aus and nz.
maybe i am wrong and the salaries being paid are unaffordable?
as for superrugby success rates, i would love a breakdown of the last 5 years rather than the comp in its entirety PA because the period where we have started to show regular success of our top three (not just one) is in this time.
sure, we lag but again, externals are just as much to blame. travel cannot be discounted and the fact that the lions won zero % and the cheetahs 27% obviously is an issue but the stronger unions are doing ok without central contracting?
i agree fully on the pro vs amateur debate PA, seriously. even at my rugby club thge politics are astounding but as i said, i will not simply transfer my support to a fancifully named new franchise which removes all the traditions i am attached to.
and that is the bottom line imo.
14 Feb 2012, 11:28 am
@rangerman-403:
I think you misunderstand the concept of central contracts. It is based on the fact that the S14 series is based on the elite 150 players, not the elite provinces. The S15 is owned by SARU in SA, unlike the provinces, which are independent entities. In fact the super competition is actually an extension of the national sides, which has replaced national trials with a more formal and structured competition.
Central contracting is also just an extension of national/Springbok contracts to a far wider squad of players whilst the provinces/unions still contract players for the domestic competitions.
Of course, central contracts depend on the national management constantly identifying and monitoring emerging talent that they’d like to see at a higher level. It isn’t about loading one or two sides as each franchise draws its squad from the constituent provinces. In NZ the Franchise nominates a core squad of 26 playersout of 30, whilst the NZRU can excercise the right to draft unnominated players who wouldn’t normally get much game time, to strengthen franchises that might be weak in certain positions. This prevents Franchises hoarding emerging talent. This is a national coaches dream situation compared to the problems ours have traditionally.
We all know how difficult it is for a national coach to
14 Feb 2012, 11:36 am
@David-411: dave you kinda tapered off theree bud.
i gotta go sorry man, chat laters, you too pa!
14 Feb 2012, 11:37 am
@rangerman-410:
The one aspect we are discussing here is a central system, and I think David explained it quite nicely.
I would personally venture as far as to say that a central system will strengthen the individual unions, not weaken them (and your support for them).
I am also quite happy to follow a European model where clubs/unions qualify for SupeRugby PROVIDED the professional arms in each union is not owned and controlled by the amateur arm (and that they show a operational profit like the model they have in France). At most I reckon the amateur arm should own up to a maximum of 25% of a union not 51% (and more) as is currently the case.
It all comes down to accountability and responsibility which if you get that right, success will be an automatic by-product.
No-one is talking about destroying the unions, in fact, my whole idea is to ensure we look after all 14 (not just the big 5 as is currently the case).
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