Stormers pack claims first big scalp
2 Apr 2012
JON CARDINELLI writes that the seasoned heavies as well as the young Stormers forwards made a massive statement in Saturday’s beating of the Bulls.
The expression on Andries Bekker’s face at the final whistle said it all: nothing beats beating the Bulls.
It hasn’t happened too many times over the past decade, and only a couple of times in Bekker’s career. It’s for this reason that you can forgive him for celebrating wildly after the most recent result. It’s a big win in isolation, but even more important for a Stormers pack before a testing tour Down Under.
Bekker hasn’t enjoyed much success against the Bulls in recent years, as he was previously up against the then incumbent Bok No 5 Victor Matfield. Saturday’s game at Newlands saw the Bulls fielding a team without Matfield, who has since retired, and Bekker didn’t miss a great opportunity to take control.
It didn’t matter that Matfield, now the Bulls lineout consultant, had worked with the Pretoria side in the build-up. It also didn’t matter that the Bulls fielded a lineout unit boasting Springboks like Chiliboy Ralepelle and Flip van der Merwe, as well as the impressive yet uncapped (as far as Test rugby is concerned) Juandré Kruger. Bekker and his Stormers pack were up to the lineout challenge, ultimately nullifying one of the Bulls’ traditional strengths.
The Stormers countered the Bulls’ attempts to maul, showing superior aggression at the point of contact as well as incredible discipline. The Bulls let themselves down in this regard, and were often penalised by referee Craig Joubert for transgressing the laws.
After a great start to the 2012 competition at the lineout, they will view their defeat at this set piece in Cape Town as an important lesson. Just as Bekker and company were schooled by Matfield and the Bulls in previous years, so the Bulls will be better for a beating at the hands of a class act like Bekker.
The Stormers had a terrible third quarter and the final scoreline suggests the Bulls gave as good as they got. But 20-17 wasn’t a fair reflection of the Stormers’ superior forward effort. It could be said that the half-time score of 14-0 was also a poor return considering the Cape side’s dominance up front, and not for the first time this season the finger of blame can be pointed at the backs for a static attack and a largely ineffective kicking game.
Any win against the Bulls is achieved via a superior performance up front, and for this reason, the Stormers deserved to take the spoils in Saturday’s combative contest. Not enough is made of the fact that they field three rookies, all under the age of 21, in their starting pack week after week. And yet, the youngsters and experienced heads are combining to produce some of the most dominant Stormers forward displays of the past few years.
Loosehead Steven Kitshoff is enjoying a fantastic first season, and combining well with Tiaan Liebenberg and Brok Harris in the front row. As assistant coach Robbie Fleck suggested a couple of weeks ago, it’s been a long time since the Stormers had such a dominant scrum. The youngster’s introduction has also inspired other seasoned heads to lift their efforts, and Liebenberg, in an all-round capacity, is starting to get back to his tackle-busting best.
Bekker was always going to take some time to regain form after missing seven months of competitive rugby, and Saturday’s game against the Bulls showed why he is the natural successor to Matfield as the Boks’ lineout manager. Under Bekker’s tutelage, Eben Etzebeth has flourished but has also brought his own edge to the game. Etzebeth’s aggressive attitude has been central to the Stormers’ tackle fight this season, which is great news for a pack that already boasts abrasive players like Liebenberg and Duane Vermeulen.
The latter player has been in phenomenal form and will be in the Bok mix later this year if he remains fit. Vermeulen’s work as a ball-carrier has only been exceeded by his contributions as a kamikaze-style defender. His prowess at the breakdown and ability to turn over possession is often unacknowledged, and while he’s no Francois Louw in this regard, he does lend a fetcher-less outfit that little bit extra on the ground.
Rynhardt Elstadt made a solid return from injury against the Bulls, and seemed determined to remind everybody why he was considered the Stormers’ answer to Bakkies Botha before Etzebeth was blooded. On the other flank, Siya Kolisi is less rabid in the manner in which he conducts himself, but no less effective. Like Vermeulen, he has made some powerful contributions as both a ball-carrier and the type of defender that smashes opponents back in the tackle.
It’s for these reasons that the Stormers haven’t missed Schalk Burger. The Stormers captain was injured in the first game of the season, but Kolisi and the pack as a collective have marched on in abrasive fashion, out-muscling their counterparts at the Sharks, Blues and Lions before making a bigger statement against the Bulls.
Because of this coach Allister Coetzee can allow Burger to stay at home while the team tours Australasia. If the Stormers had not gathered such great forward momentum in the past few weeks, perhaps Burger would be asked to join the trip. As it is, Burger will use the extra time to heal fully.
There are weaknesses in the Stormers’ game as a whole, but what is encouraging is that the pack has continued to grow with each outing. There are greater challenges to come, with the Highlanders in terrific form in the forwards and the Crusaders stacked with All Black heavies. The Reds have struggled in 2012 but do have a number of Wallabies in their pack, and the Force possess a strong lineout and the best fetcher in the world in David Pocock.
Burger will rejoin the squad when they return from their tour, but in the interim Coetzee will need to manage his team carefully. The youngsters should continue to play and gain experience but at some stage Coetzee will need to look at an alternative for Bekker in that key No 5 role, and also ensure that Vermeulen, a player that gets through a lot of work, is not overexposed as has been the case in the past few seasons.
114 Comments
2 Apr 2012, 05:25 am
Ah yes, world beating DRAGONS!
2 Apr 2012, 06:03 am
A very exciting pack indeed. The youngsters have already turned potential into performance. A golden age is upon us as far as forwards are concerned.
2 Apr 2012, 06:03 am
I think those ridiculous pink outfits had an impact on the mentality of the players, suddenly the Blue Bulls pack looked like a bunch of burly men is tutus….looked far less intimidating. But my beloved Blue Bulls will bounce back come this weekend.
2 Apr 2012, 06:05 am
Bully boy taming DRAGONS
2 Apr 2012, 06:07 am
Those pink outfits affected the Bulls more than the Stormers I reckon. FAR too pink and it caused them to think the could play with swagger…NOT!
2 Apr 2012, 06:10 am
@Japer die Haper(Japer die Haper)-3:
Asih boet, who thought that was a good idea?! The pink on the front was bad enough but when you saw the back…and then the PANTS…and then the SOCKS!!! It was not a good look.
Funniest part though was when the ref called ‘pink, hands of the ball now’…watching at some ungodly hour in the morning, in a quiet house and I still laughed out loud!
2 Apr 2012, 06:16 am
Stormers can rotate elstadt, etsebeth and bekker. No need to bring Kokkie Steenkamp into the mix. He does absolutely nothing
2 Apr 2012, 06:20 am
Its no good having a pack who can dominate when the backs do absolutely nothing. At this stage in the competition, the forwards get an A+, but the backs get a resounding fail. 8 players can not win the competition and serious work needs to be done by the Robbie Fleck and the backs….
2 Apr 2012, 06:24 am
Good win but don’t write of the Bulls. Stormers will have to forfeit their usual siesta time after lunch break. That 3rd quarter slump was terrible to watch and will cost them dearly against more tenacious teams like the Crusaders and Highlanders. Even the Force play 80 minute rugby.
2 Apr 2012, 06:25 am
@HongKongSlong(HongKongSlong)-8: Totally agreed.
2 Apr 2012, 06:29 am
Personally loved the pink outfits, imagine Coonie in one of those pink numbers…I am salivating just thinking about it!
2 Apr 2012, 06:31 am
Just noted it is Coenie and not Coonie…so sorry, terrible mistake but feel free to spank me anytime Coenie!
2 Apr 2012, 06:37 am
@Amerifikaner(Amerifikaner)-9:
It will be different in the return match but on the day the Stormers looked much more determined right from the kick-off. Can only imagine how charged up the Bulls will be next time.
2 Apr 2012, 06:39 am
What the hell is it with this bloke and his gutter talk? Do we really have to read it hear?!
2 Apr 2012, 07:08 am
It was good for SA rugby that the Stormers are contributing to the options SA have in the tight 5. In the last few years, its been the achillies heel of the Stormers.
Was really impresse with Kitschoff & Etzebeth, amazing that the youngsters are playing with no fear. Well done to the Stormers.
I also still feel that Peter Grant is one of the better options for bok 10. He takes the ball really flat, and the stormers got over the advantage line way more than the Bulls from 1st phase.
Shocking to see a bulls pack so lacking of confidence. In the second half, when the Bulls were backpeddalling in the scrums, I had a horrified look on my face that prompted my wife to ask what was wrong.
Bulls had better catch a forward wake up.
Well done Stormers – keep it up, and try not be Andy Murray when it counts.
Cheetahs – about time & also good for SA rugby
Sharks – still way to many problems, but a win is a win.
SA rugby looking strong, Heyneke must be a happy man.
2 Apr 2012, 07:10 am
@Slartibartfast(Slartibartfast)-14: I KNOW,its very disturbing. Can only hope He’s a girl
2 Apr 2012, 07:17 am
@Papoose(papaown)-16:
Aish Poose, operative word is unfortunately ‘he’! He admitted his man love a week or so ago.
2 Apr 2012, 07:22 am
could you guys write and article on the stormers without coming across as groupies…please..?.. journalistic integrity…tsk tsk
2 Apr 2012, 07:24 am
Ok…so we won with Craig…..but let me tell you something…he tried hard!
First think we learned from his previous games was that you cannot moan about the ref after the game…..Jean went to him on his dubious calls and confronted him right there…..so there was no running into change rooms and be protected the way refs are. Ever time Jean asked him right up and you could see the stress in his eyes.
At one moment I thought Craig was going to fall to his knees and beg the bulls to stop their dirty tricks…….There should have been at least two more yellow or two penalties earlier……he also killed the scrum contest in first halve with quick penalties against the stormers….making us work hard to get the upper hand before he just could not the solid Brock anymore. Well done formwards!!!
As for the backs. They are suffering from a coach who has coached running out of them. JP was normally comfortable to counter attack but looked very nervous when he did….this is due to AC coaching them to only consider the kick game!
The second try of the bulls was really bad reffing from all three……..I stopped counting forward passes at 3……yes we also got away with one but we did not score from one…..surely Craig should be dropped for this display…..just one game to bring him back to earth…he really thinks he is Gods gift to rugby!
Well done Stormers for beating a Bulls side hyped up by all the press and also showing the rest that we are here to go all the way!
2 Apr 2012, 07:43 am
As I was telling the Bulls fans on here last week. The Stormers pack is superior to the Bulls’. Now to see if the Stormers pack can stand up to the best overseas.
2 Apr 2012, 07:49 am
Stormers pack is looking awesome!! But this is a long season and injuries play a role! Lets see how the season pans out! Lots of rugby left!
2 Apr 2012, 07:50 am
@BULLET(BULLET)-15: Go ask the Sharks supporters how they felt when a green Kitshoff crunched the Boks first choice tighthead.
2 Apr 2012, 07:51 am
@houston, we have a problem…(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-18:
> could you guys write and article on the stormers without coming across as groupies
JC probably wrote this article with a hardon
2 Apr 2012, 07:52 am
@houston, we have a problem…(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-18: Whatever, what was the writing like after the bulls crushed the faded Reds team? They were writing as if the bulls could walk on water. Bulls writers/ fans are just as windgat, if not more so.
2 Apr 2012, 07:52 am
Beating at home one of the weakest Bulls team in seven years by 3 questionable points doesn’t make the Stormers’ pack a world beaters.
They badly needed Craig Joubert to wield his magic last 10 minutes to win, not much to sing about
It possible the NZ and Aus teams this year are even weaker than the Bulls, we shall find out real soon.
2 Apr 2012, 07:55 am
@Hondo(Hondo)-25:
Even Robbie Kempson, a ex-WP player said the penalty should have gone the other way
If Morne kicked better we would have heard complaints about the ref again
2 Apr 2012, 07:56 am
@Hoops(Hoops)-19:
> the bulls to stop their dirty tricks…….
Like your hooker did?
Did you see how many off the ball incidents he was involved in?
2 Apr 2012, 07:59 am
@BreakdownBoy(goodstuff)-24:
Nope, the writers were used to the standards set by our 2007-2010 team, this youngsters still needs two years to mature
On the other hand, if you guys don’t deliver again this year, what will your excuse be?
2 Apr 2012, 08:03 am
How the hell the alkie looking Liebenburg was awarded Man of the Match we will never know…
Chilliboy was miles better…
Man of the Match could have/should have been:
Etsebeth
Greyling
Chilliboy
Grant
In that order…
2 Apr 2012, 08:10 am
@BULLET(BULLET)-15:
And I think that Grant is the ONLY option for the Boks right now, Lambie’s too fragile, Styen @ Hougaard are totally ineffective at that level while Butch has only 20 minutes of test level left in him.
Johan Goosen is the future but he needs to be managed properly by Heineke, and frankly, I don’t see that happening
2 Apr 2012, 08:11 am
Stormers are definately the team to beat this year. 5 / 5 says it all. They should at least win 2 games overseas, and back in SA it should only be worried about the Bulls and Sharks away. That will give them at least 12/16 games.
The thing that worries me though is the fact that they are not scoring tries. Not exactly sure, but i think they are at 7 tries.
If they keep winning its fine, but if they lose a couple the other teams will catch up with them.
2 Apr 2012, 08:12 am
@22 – BREAKDOWNBOY,
I am a sharks supporter, and was suitably impressed at that scrum showing. That said, I always felt that Jannie is weak, and very overrated as a player, and if he did not have his baby brother next to him, would fare even worse.
Honestly, I do not consider the sharks scrum as a measuring stick. Not with only 1 top notch player in their tight 5. No disrespect to Chadwick, he is a baby and will learn, the locks are tired & Jannie is plain k*k.
2 Apr 2012, 08:13 am
@HeavensGame – I do agree that I could have picked 29 other players as man of the match before Liebenberg. He was lucky not to be carded in that first 20 minutes while behaving like a steroid dosed teenager but anyway….
I’ll front up and say I am a bulls fan before making my main point. You can all call me sour but its not that. I think its valid.
There are to many games being decided by scrum penalties in the last few minutes of the game. It really seems like pure guesswork by the referees. Ask 10 “experts” and you will get 5 or 6 different first offenses at any scrum. The rucks are difficult enough to police but the scrums are a lottery. I think the refs just stand there praying that one of the props hands touches the ground because thats about the only time they have clear and 100% valid justification for a penalty. In all other cases there is a significant amount of guesswork going on.
I think the IRB have a real big issue on there hands with scrums. Gotta do something and I think they can start by changing all offences to short arms (with no option for a reset scrum).
2 Apr 2012, 08:13 am
Hondo – I feel for Grant, he is a great player who, if he had been playing behind a more dominant pack over the years, would be rated higher by those that count.
Watch him this season when he has a forward pack that gain al least parity up front.
2 Apr 2012, 08:16 am
@victoriabok(victoriabok)-23:
its like gushing puppy love..blegh!…
@BreakdownBoy(goodstuff)-24:
ar you seriously comparing a 50+ pointer statement of fact article to a ‘slimmest of margins 3 point dubious penalty call needed for victory’ bit of writing..?…seriously..?.
the strormers scrapped it…just… but its written as if they just landed a man on the farking moon.
2 Apr 2012, 08:17 am
@33 – Greenfan,
Wont work. Harlem globetrotter stuff. It will be 1 step closer to league.
Simple answer I believe.
1) The Attacking team should gain the benefit of the doubt.
2) We should stop the clock when the ref awards a scrum, and only start the clock when the ball comes out the back.
Scrums account for about 14-16 minutes of game time on average. When those dumba**e forwards are on the field for another 14 minutes, they will soon realise its in their best interests to keep the scrums up.
Also, this way, nobody can play for time.
2 Apr 2012, 08:18 am
@victoriabok(victoriabok)-26:
That was my thinking too,
That last minute penalty was clearly a bending of the result, Joubert could call for a reset scrum since both sides were pretty guilty, none was trying to scrum legally
2 Apr 2012, 08:25 am
@BULLET(BULLET)-34:
Grant has done well every season since 2006, his reputation was dented though when forced to play with the likes of Januarie and Conradie, one can see how good he is with DD’s service!
2 Apr 2012, 08:29 am
@Hondo,
I would agree. I was really impressed at DD’s service on Saturday. It was fast, exciting rugby.
2 Apr 2012, 08:30 am
@GreenFan(GreenFan)-33: Good post. Refs and lawmakers (or interpreters?) only have themselves to blame for the mess in the scrums… and the tight loose.
They are in the process of hybridiziing rugby… and fcking it up as the game we know it, at the same time.
2 Apr 2012, 08:32 am
@victoriabok
If a fan complains about a ref, I can understand it.
But when a commentator says that should not have been a penalty….
2 Apr 2012, 08:33 am
@victoriabok(victoriabok)-26: And if Craig called any of the three forward passes in the bulls last try’s movement the stormers would not have needed the last penalty. you see it is easy to call it after the game…. If Joe Pietersen kicked the conversion before halftime.. it woud have been 16 – 0… if JDJ’s pass went to Duvenhage he would have scored and the bulls would have been 21- 0 behind….
the fact is: The bulls were outplayed in every facet of the game. Both their tries came off stormers mistakes.. it was not well worked or great moves from bulls players. Rather just luck…
The other fact remains that the stormers still win games when they concede points in the second half and lose their lead… this speaks volumes of their character.
2 Apr 2012, 08:34 am
@BULLET(BULLET)-36: Generally the team going backwards drops the scrum, so the team going forward should get the penalty more often then not, unless they are using illegal tactics, like boring in or early engage etc. I think if referees could actually learn a hell of a lot by playing a bit in the front row themselves. If they are to be paid professionals and get flown around the world, they need to gain some first hand knowledge. So put them on a scrummaging course as a requirement for them to gain top level status. Its just guess work if you have never been in there, pure and simple, which is not good enough.
2 Apr 2012, 08:36 am
Help my gou, maar het iemand nie gesê die Stormers gaan nêrens kom sonder Rassie nie?
2 Apr 2012, 08:36 am
@McGuywer(McGuywer)-41: Ja off course!! I mean with all the Bulls ex players and pro bulls propaganda from supersport I believe every word these guys are saying.. i mean if Bic Vic said it should have been a penalty then surely it must be right…..
Come on!! grow a pair… Mathew Pierce and one stage looked like he was gonna puke from disgust with the Stormers win….
Why do you not mention the three forward passes in the move before Meisiekind scored??? Hey??
Suck it up… your team did NOT deserve to win this game.. finish en klaar
2 Apr 2012, 08:37 am
JC what a lo0ad of rubbish.
Go and look at the stats before you write , such rubbish.
First well done Strompies you won on the day.
The calls definatly went Sormers way. Liebenberg , Bekker ( High Tackle), Vermeulen must be the dirtiest players alive.
Well done to Sormers youngsters
Graig has no idea about scrums, even JDV said they milked a penalty the last scrum , Graig go and ask Kempson about scrumming in.
2 Apr 2012, 08:45 am
My take on the game:
Stormers frontrow Vs Bulls = Stormers won this comfortably! Brok and Kitshoff really scrummed well
Stormers Locks vs Bulls = Line out in my opinion was pretty even.. but Etzebeths play in general is osmething to behold.. he is pure bok material
Loosies = I do not think Spuitnaald |Spies had a bad game, but think his flankers got shown up against their stormers counterparts.. that last move from Koster keeping ball in hand was brilliant I must say.
9- 10 combo = Almost wanna call this on for the stormers after Morne did exactly what I predicted… pack in hind gear and he drops in the pocket… But hougie is a great player so I call it even.
Centres = Have to call this even as both team made the tackles that was needed….
Wings.. i still think Basson and Ndungane is about 90% of the time in front of the kicker with every kick Morne launches.. go watch the tapes… but for me the defense and workrate from the Stormers wings was superior.
Fullbacks.. Crusty struggled a few times and klein Percy did not do anything great… was upset with that missed kick after the try.. KLein Percy by a whisker..
2 Apr 2012, 08:48 am
@capebull(capebull)-46: Still not ready to call the stormers superior after Saturday hey?? Still have the Maak die bulle almal bokke mentality?
I find it funny that we were told not to bring the ref into it before the game and now every bull wants to do exactly that.. if the stormers did not get a penalty at that particular scrum.. they might have picked up the balll.. gained another 20 yards and got a penalty seconds later…
The bulls infringed at ruck time and mauls every time the stormers got in the 22 – 10 m line area…. they do this for years where they rather give away 3 than concede a try…
2 Apr 2012, 08:52 am
Can’t believe missed all the Rugga this past weekend!!
2 Apr 2012, 08:54 am
@Provvas(Provvas)-48: No Provvas, I said that the stormer youngsters were stars…..
Eben, Elstadt, Kolisi, but Bekker ,
but Vermeulen and Tiaan are thugs.
I also said , Rob Kempson and JDV also said they milked the penalty, Rob Kempson also said the Bulls were 55-45% in scrums, so don’t talk about mentality if you don’t understand Rugby but only work on emotion.
2 Apr 2012, 08:57 am
Points missed to goal
Stormers 5 Bulls 9
Posession
Sormers 48% Bulls 52%
Line Outs
Sormers 9/10 Bulls 10/10
Line Breaks
Sormers 1 Bulls 3
Penalties
Sormers 9 Bulls 14
Thats where the Bulls lost it
2 Apr 2012, 08:59 am
@Provvas(Provvas)-42:
jeah, the stormers try was a real gem?
addmittedly, I wasn’t able to watch the game so headed to rugby365 for a far more measured article on proceedings.
cardennelli is a groupie.
personally, I wasn’t expecting much from this game, bulls are always below par at night games….and then when they’re playing in pink….
2 Apr 2012, 09:01 am
@houston, we have a problem…(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-35: no mate, you are smarting and being finnicky!
the stormers PACK has always been derided – “light five” – and for their fans and the media the biggest issue pre-season was why rassie & ac weren’t buying seasoned props. now their pack with two players who were in italy last year representing the baby boks and a loosehead not even into his twenties yet, HANDLED a team filled with what we were told last week are 6 BOKS.
now if jc can’t write about the significance of that, what must he write about, that the bulls made another late rally in a match after being led for most of the game?
i don’t recall anyone minimising the victory to mere “scraping” when a Bok-laden bulls team needed a naqelevuki brainfart to win a semi-final at loftus a some years back.
to the victors the spoils go
2 Apr 2012, 09:06 am
I posted before the game that I really hoped that a controversial reffing call did not decide the game, and sure as hell, as it happens this is the result,
Fact is, we’ve been on the receiving end of these calls too many times to count.
One of them has finally gone our way.
We won, and even the most one-eyed Bulls supporter must admit that we were the better team on the day.
We still have to travel to Loftus, the season is still very young, but considering that many of the bloggers on this site were writing the Stormers off as weaker than the previous years, and lacking a fetcher, and all that jazz, we have managed to beat all comers so far.
We’ll see how far we get, I still have serious reservations about our style of play and the effect that it has on the squad as the season progresses, but this is really the perfect start to the season.
The Stormers were never going to vary their defensive minded style of play, so the backs lack of spark is no surprise to me, and it will continue to be that way for as long as they keep sticking tight forwards in the centre positions off quick multi-phase ball, which is when the real strike runners should be getting the ball. On defence and when we get turned over those same tight forwards save our bacon though. You just can’t have it both ways, and we’ve chosen the defence first option, and it’s been working so far.
The rules and reffing interpretation have nullified a great deal of the “fetching” opportunities that deck players have been feeding off the past seasons, allowing hybrids like Kolisi to shine, and I expect Burger to do the same when he comes back.
The tour on paper is extremely tough, we face last year’s champs and the ‘Saders at home, as well as the NZ and log leaders.
I feel though that the Reds and Saders are vulnerable as they have never been the past couple of years, so you never know.
2 Apr 2012, 09:14 am
Stats actually suggest that Bulls were better, having most of the territory and possession…
The only Stat where Stormers were significantly better was with the penalty count…
I hope Newlands gave Joubert a round of applause.
We shall see if Stormers are continually saved by the obligatory two get out of jail penalties they seem to get in the final 10 mins as in their games against the Sharks and the Bulls…
Two penalties at the end of every game is no given in a tournament of 18 rounds… Two penalties that are the only difference between winning and losing…
2 Apr 2012, 09:22 am
Chilliboy had a very impressive game. I would have given him MOM ahead of Tiaan too.
2 Apr 2012, 09:25 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-54:
a player like steggmann is missed for the bulls, particularly in the last 20 in my opinion, because he is very quick and has a massive work rate. The bulls can strenghen their backrow by playing the 2 potgieters, of which dewald is a hybrid who also attacks the ground but is far more pyisical than stegg. stegg the supersub could potentially change games.
stormers on the otherhand are going to have a real issue trying to fit skalk back in.
2 Apr 2012, 09:26 am
@>^..^< katman(katman)-56: I agree that Chilli played better than Tiaan, particularly in the loose, but he also gave away a couple of penalties.
I think that Tiaan’s scrumming and the fact that he scored a try edged it.
2 Apr 2012, 09:27 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-55: If you couldn’t see that the Stormers were monstering the Bulls in the scrums, then I’m sorry. If you didn’t see Craig Joubert missing soooo many forward passes, chasers in front of the kickers, in off their feet, in from the sides, high tackles then I’m sorry. These infringements occurred from both sides.
The Bulls were completely outplayed in this game and were only in it because the bounce of the ball was actually still going their way.
Craig Joubert was **** for both sides. Juandre Kruger should’ve been carded for the number of penalties he single handedly conceded as well as Dean Greyling. And the Bulls have the audacity to call us thugs? Liebenberg was involved in 2 off the ball incidents yes… WITH BULLS PLAYERS! Geez… one-eyed idiots.
The ref was ****, but the right team won.
2 Apr 2012, 09:29 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-55: What you should be saying is that you hope that teams like the Sharks and Bulls stop giving away stupid penalties in the last 5 minutes in their own halves to lose the game.
in situations like that the attacking team almost always gets the benefit of the doubt.
2 Apr 2012, 09:30 am
@lepel(lepel)-59: No lepel , go back and watch again , Bekker had 3 high takles , Juandre was taken out of line out , Graig just said sorry I did not see. Vermeulen , Tiaan and Bekker bigest thugs in SA rugby.
The Stormer youngsters yes, they want to play.
2 Apr 2012, 09:31 am
@>^..^< katman(katman)-56: Agree
2 Apr 2012, 09:38 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl(Brigadier Van Zyl)-57: I agree with you that something is missing. But I’m not sure what it is, quite frankly.
i would say though that you are 95% there, and that forward pack will dominate most teams. On Saturday if they had controlled themselves better they may have come out on top. For me it just seemed that some of the Bulls youngsters looked they were trying to win a fight rather than a game. It’s almost as if they’d been so hyped up that that they came out and just tried to moer us stukkend. The ref gave them many warnings before he reached for his card, so there can be no complaints from the guys there. The Stormers were guilty of one or two incidents but on the whole played very well within the rules of the game.
On the scrumming, as an ex front rower I watch those very closely and it’s always such a lottery. The fact is, we are getting the benefit of the doubts often because our scrum is finally going forward and there is a lesson in that for other teams. Guys like Brock and Steven are getting the upper hand more often than not nowadays.
I think the Bulls are capable of spectacular rugby when they are able to dominate upfront, and are great to watch when that happens,
On the weekend they failed to dominate and didn’t get the space they would have wanted so the game was changed completely into the type of game the stormers like to play, and we just did it better.
That’s how it goes and they’ll be back, that’s for sure. Loftus will be a cracking round 2.
2 Apr 2012, 09:41 am
@capebull(capebull)-61: Juandre Kruger grabbed the opposing lineout player in EVERY single lineout… He was involved in just as many off the ball incidents and Greyling as well.
I agree that Vermeulen and Tiaan are thugs and for this reason don’t deserve their bok call-ups… but what is worrying is that Juandre Kruger was trying to be a thug as well. I really rate this guy, but he, as well as Greyling, just gave away far too many penalties for hot headedness.
2 Apr 2012, 09:43 am
@capebull(capebull)-61: Oh, and on high tackles. You do realise that if you grapple the player around the neck like Dean Greyling does virtually every single time it is also considered dangerous play… He did it at least 4 or 5 times in the game.
2 Apr 2012, 09:43 am
Gotta laugh at the Bulls supporters congratulating stormers fans through clenched teeth. Come on guys. Your team came up short and as transie said, to the victor, go the spoils. You can console yourself with the fact that you lost this game, you weren’t beaten.
I must say i didn’t think there was much in the last scrum infringement and i’d go as far as to say that many here would’ve missed it as well, if it wasn’t for Kempson who made the comment he did. As i recall it was only the stormers scrum which advanced a few times, while the rest were solid, so you have to concede that the stormers edged this phase of play as well.
As an aside, i’d like to comment on 2 things i’ve been harping on since the beginning of the season. Dewald Duvenhage is cr@p, but he is only beaten to the cr@p winning post be Joe Pietersen. If I were Pietersen, I’d much rather be scouting for a NFL kicking contract, than playing rugby. Clearly lacked bravery and displayed typical “whiter man’s” foot confusion when trying to sidestep when counter-attacking. Add to that his decision not to commit to trying to tackle timotei when he scored the try. I’ve said it all along and will keep saying it, Duvehage and Pietersen are Vodacom cup at best.
2 Apr 2012, 09:45 am
Greyling is a real dirty pink b asterd.at one stage he had that evil ET look in his eye as he wanted to take on the whole Stormers pack in a fight.greyling will see his gat this saturday…again.
2 Apr 2012, 09:47 am
Craig Joubert once again showed his bias towards the home team in pressure matches. If you watch that game again you’ll notice, one-eyed-JC, that there were several occasions there the Stormers entered rucks from the side and didnt release the tackler or ball (offences for which the Bulls were immediately penalised). The Stormers weren’t “disciplined.” They just got away with it in front of an incompetent ref.
And for all their stoic defence, they were easily unlocked twice – once by a 14 man team. So honestly, if that is the best performance an overpaid team can muster – 3 points against a team largely made up of guys in their first season, good luck.
2 Apr 2012, 09:51 am
Olivier’s attempt to tackle Kolisi in the Stormers try was hilarious at best.bulls got lucky when the pink p ussy scored late on after two blatant forward passes,so I don’t understand the moans about this last minute penalty.
2 Apr 2012, 09:52 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-60: Nope. Incorrect dear Watson.
Clearly those “stupid penalties” were in the eye of the beholders only – the thankful Stormers crowd and the very generous referees.
Benefit of the doubt to the “attacking” side…? Huh, I count on one hand how many times Stormers have actually attacked with purpose… Attacking advantage has got nothing to do with it. Stormers at the moment do not know the meaning of the concept…
When those two gimme last 10 min penalties don’t come in future games then there’s going to be snot en trane all the way from behind the Durbanville boerewors curtain all the way to Robben Island…
2 Apr 2012, 09:57 am
@BULLET(BULLET)-36:
what about one of the touch judges coming onto the field during scrums perhaps? he could assist the ref by at least taking control of one side the scrum while the ref controls the other side. any infringements on his side can be pointed out and refered to the ref or ref could be responsible for scrutinising the attacking team and the touch judge the defending team during the scrum.
2 Apr 2012, 09:59 am
Love the headline.so the sharks can be considered as uber kuk ?
2 Apr 2012, 09:59 am
Kolisi is a Rock. This kid is going places.
2 Apr 2012, 09:59 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-63:
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-63:
i think the bulls players… forwards in particular… got caught up in the pre-match hype about the physicality of the match…
that scuffle with liebenberg at the beginning was because kruger took him out off the ball… sure tiaan reacted badly… if understandably… but i was impressed that he managed to reign it in after that… something which juandre did not manage to do… he seemed really angry for the whole game…
but having said that… have to agree that he outplayed andries on the day… juandre’s an excellent player… i sincerely hope this was a once-off thing for him and he doesn’t continue to overdo it to assert himself… he’s way better than that and doesn’t want to get stuck with label on his back like bakkies…
the only tight head with better tackle stats than brok is wp nel… but wp played more minutes than brok and has also given away something like 11 penalties to brok’s one… wp’s also missed 5 or 6 tackles… brok’s missed none… and his tackles these days really seem to be effective knocking the tackle-ee back more often than not… brok makes a tackle every 7,71 minutes… wp every 8,26… cilliers every 11,3… werner every 14,33 and jannie every 14,50 minutes… so it’s pretty obvious who’s putting in the most work around the park…
i know who i’d rather have in my team…
even if brok isn’t considered for the boks… i’m very happy to have him in the stormers…
2 Apr 2012, 10:00 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-70: You let us worry about our own snot and trane.
No crying in Durbanville today.
We won’t win every game, that’s a certainty, but I’d much rather be a Stormers supporter than a Sharks supporter, who instead of celebrating his own team’s victory, is clutching at straws trying to find fault with another team’s.
And as usual, coming up short.
2 Apr 2012, 10:04 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-53:
ja, i notice you say nothing about the reffing (as suspected) but its no skin off my back really, well done to the stormers…they are the victors and these are their spoils.
2 Apr 2012, 10:05 am
@SHARKattack(mabu)-73: Agree. If they want to include a couple of youngsters in the Bok squad to play in midweek games and be exposed to the “vibe”, I’d pick him and Goosen.
2 Apr 2012, 10:10 am
Bulls better get used to that losing feeling as King Carter’s deadly boot is waiting to kick thug greyling’s multitude of penalties.
2 Apr 2012, 10:14 am
@seamus(seamus)-68:
You are a clown m’boy… largely made up of players in their first season? OK let’s investigate:
1. Greyling
2. Rapelle
3. Kruger
4. J Kruger
5. Van der Merwe
6. Stander – First Season
7. Potgieter – First Season
8. Spies
9. Hougaard
10 Steyn
11. Basson
12. Olivier
13. Sadie
14. Ndungane
15. Kircshner
Wow Idiot, so 2 players constitutes largely?
Meanwhile:
The Stormers have 3 players in their first season, all 20 years old, also not the majority, but then again, I am not the one groping for excuses…
2 Apr 2012, 10:18 am
@ufo(ufo)-74: The power coming through form the 2nd row can not be ignored either though. Having a 2nd row of Bekker and Etsabeth is going to give a front row a hell of a lot more back up power then any other 2nd row combination. Not taking anything away from Brok “the Rock”! because he has improved a lot this year.
2 Apr 2012, 10:21 am
@CAPECRUSADER(CAPECRUSADER)-78: King Carter wont be kicking, because he is a bit to precious at the moment, but his back up isn’t too bad, so he should be the one having the field day!
2 Apr 2012, 10:21 am
@HongKongSlong(HongKongSlong)-80:
exactly… which is what i said when our scrum was demolished by the crusaders when bekker and elstadt were carrying injuries… have always said scrummings about 8 men not 1…
seems it’s brok’s fault when we get dusted… but he deserves no praise when we do the dusting…?
hmmmm…???
2 Apr 2012, 10:21 am
@houston, we have a problem…(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-76: what do you want me to say, that craign and his assistants missed 2 forward passes before wynand scored?
is that the kind of “referee talk” you’d like to hear?
verusco says the bulls gave away 16 penalties to the stormers 9…discipline issues or craig is to blame?
2 Apr 2012, 10:22 am
@ufo(ufo)-74: 100%, Brock is class. Always has been, but he;s getting better and better.
The bulls were 110% when they should have just been 100% and they paid the price for sure. Juandre played better than Andries but as you say he let himself down, along with Greying, who just looked like a thug.
2 Apr 2012, 10:25 am
@43 – HK.
I 100% agree. Why would the attacking team with possession infringe. In 90% of the time, its the defensive team who are transgressing. Quite simple, if you are a defensive team, the only 2 things that you can do are as follows:
Outshove the opponents
Out hook or pull a tighthead
Anything else is a transgression. Wheeling, boring in, collapsing etc etc, is suited to the defensive team.
@71 – HOUSTON,
Could be a good option, but I feel that the realy issue is the laws itself. Another ref will just add another interpretation. We need clarity on the laws and the blame apportionment.
LAST POINT – why would the attacking team transgress?
2 Apr 2012, 10:26 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-83:
can you honestly say you were happy with the reffing on saturday?
2 Apr 2012, 10:29 am
I haven’t visited this site in a long time, couldn’t be bothered reading some of the vitriol, things seem to have mellowed out a bit I’m pleased to say.
Unfortunately the Stormers-Bulls game this weekend doesn’t leave me with any warm and fuzzy feelings, to me it indicates the state of SA rugby and something which confirms what the rest of the rugby world thinks of SA rugby in general. Not much skill on display except for brute strength and mindless aggression, surely our well paid professional coaches can teach the players to channel their aggression?
With the kick and chase approach now being the tactic of choice for both teams in the majority of their games, what other skills do they have to offer? OK defenses are now so well organised, but the NZ/OZ teams can work through the phases with patience to create space, does this mean that our players don’t have the attention span or the skill of the NZ/OZ players or the coaches don’t have the confidence in our players ability to do this? I don’t have the answers, but I hope the new bok coach will be able to make a difference.
On a positive note, I must say that Chilliboy was very impressive as well as Etsebeth and Wium Basson.
2 Apr 2012, 10:35 am
@BULLET(BULLET)-85:
if their scrum’s struggling even if they have the put in? there would be no advantage to them to lose the ball or go backwards in the scrum and blunt their go forward?
i could think o many reasons why even attacking teams would transgress. the ozzie teams come to mind in this respect.
2 Apr 2012, 10:36 am
@houston, we have a problem…(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-86: no, but that’s not why your team lost!
2 Apr 2012, 10:40 am
To be honest this penalties from the scrum is nonsense.
The refs in general have no clue what’s going on there and the calls are becoming incrteasingly arbitrary.
Scrum infringements should be free kicks.
End of story.
2 Apr 2012, 10:43 am
Mowdawd who is Wium Basson??
2 Apr 2012, 10:43 am
Meant Mowdawg
2 Apr 2012, 10:46 am
Gunther would you be saying that if a team was doing that to the Bulls the last second of a viral game where Morne would kick a winning penalty???
2 Apr 2012, 10:46 am
Viral = vital
2 Apr 2012, 10:46 am
yeah… have to say chiliboy had the best game of his career… he looked very impressive indeed… way more assertive than i can ever remember him being but didn’t go OTT…
could easily have been MOTM… and… had the bulls won… most probably would have been…
2 Apr 2012, 10:48 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-89:
i hope this fighting spirit is not going to be in short supply if the kings make their entrance next year, transie.
2 Apr 2012, 10:51 am
@CAPECRUSADER(CAPECRUSADER)-78: King Carter se ma se tjops man!!
2 Apr 2012, 10:59 am
I am a Stormers fan but I watched the game as a neutral.
I didn’t think is was such a great game. Brutal – yes, but the overall quality of rugby was poor.
I re-viewed the Bulls try a few times on PVR and the first pass was definitely WELL forward. The second pass was marginal and I am willing to call it “flat” but I can’t understand how the hell the linesman missed the blatantly forward pass.
The Bulls also never entered rucks ‘through the gate’ – only once did Craig ping them for it near the end.
The ‘sealing off’ call against Kolisi in the first half when the Stormers where on attack (in the Bulls 22) was a joke. I can show you a dozen other cases where ‘sealing off’ could have been blown in but were not.
Plenty of high tackles on both sides were missed.
It also irritates me how certain refs award a penalty if a prop’s hand touches the ground but others allow it all game long without EVER blowing their whistle. If it is a penalty the EVERY ref MUST award a penalty EVER TIME A HAND touches the ground – not only when they feel like it.
Games are being ruined by inept refs and linesmen – the IRB needs to change the rules to remove “interpretation” or else the game will suffer.
Craig J – was pathetic in the WC Final and gifted NZL the win, France would have walked it if he was not biased against them.
2 Apr 2012, 10:59 am
Well done Stormers. Bulls have only themselves to blame. Missed oppertunities and a Joubert call here and there could’ve swung it our way. Stormers were monsters at the breakdown.
Vermeulen is a vuilgat. In time he will need to calm that sh it down if he pulls n green and gold over the head. Bekker not far behind.
Greyling will also need a sitting down with. Good strength and aggression but wrongly channelled.
Anyway lets see what happens this weekend with CAPECRUSADER’s trilkoppies rolling into Snor City. Expect the Bulls to nail this one though. If the Saders pin their hopes on the ballet performance they showed on Saturday, Loftus is going to be a loud place for them.
2 Apr 2012, 11:05 am
@88 HOUSTON,
If you are in posession of the ball, and your scrum is being dominated, the opposing team should be considered the attacking team. All they should be doing is out pushing, out hooking and not boring in.
EG – Aussie team 5m from their try line with posession. If the opposing team attacks, the opposing team would not want to wheel, collapse or transgress. They would only want to outshove, outhook etc.
Posession does not determine attacking and defensive scrums, more field placement comes into play.
Interresting that the majority of scrum transgressions occur in kickable penalty zones. Hence it could be regarded that a scrum in your half is defensive (irrespective of posession) and in the opponents half is attacking (irrespective of posession)
Thats my thoughts anyway.
2 Apr 2012, 11:07 am
@KWAGGA ROBERTSE(KWAGGA ROBERTSE)-99:
2 Apr 2012, 13:25 pm
Ok….to all those Bulls supporters blaming Craig…here is a deal…..
Since you scored two tries and we only one and we had 15/9 penalties…..you can have the win and the 4 log points…….BUT….then we want the 2010 Title since then Craig cost us that final….when we scored 2 tries to your 1 and the penalty count was like one zillion /6….DEAL?????
2 Apr 2012, 13:25 pm
What a difference a week makes on Keo,last week the Bulls were invincible,this week despite,only scoring one try and being the benificaries of a hopelessly lopsided and biased refreeing team,the Stormers are now crowned Super 15 champions on this site.
Unless Mark Lawrence is on his way to Duneiden,this Stormers team is in for a huge wake up call.That idiot Liebenbergh is in for a serious hiding with his moronic aggression.Should have been sin binned early on,and then the turkey ends up man of the match.
When a true hard man, like Bakkies gives a prick like this, what he has been begging for he is labeled a thug,
2 Apr 2012, 13:33 pm
Watch the replay of that incident. Kruger continued to play the man long after the ball had gone and Tiasn showed his opinion in no uncertain manner.
2 Apr 2012, 13:34 pm
@mad eye(mad eye)-103: i just love this!!they are so focussed on belittling the stormers victory that they totally lose sight of the legends of super rugby riding into town on saturday……..oh the shock will be great when the legendary crusaders knock them further into the turf.
2 Apr 2012, 15:22 pm
@thesaint(thesaint)-79:
uhuh…?
1. Greyling
2. Rapelle – 1st season starting
3. Kruger
4. J Kruger – 1st season starting
5. Van der Merwe –
6. Stander – First Season
7. Potgieter – First Season
8. Spies
9. Hougaard – 1st season starting at 9
10 Steyn
11. Basson
12. Olivier
13. Sadie – 1st season starting and in a new team
14. Ndungane
15. Kircshner
2 Apr 2012, 16:02 pm
@seamus(seamus)-106: If you are trying to make the point that the Bulls have a much less experienced team than the Stormers and are using players like Chilli and Hougaard, both Springboks as examples, you are fooling no one but yourself.
2 Apr 2012, 16:23 pm
@seamus(seamus)-106:
That’s just a plain stupid comment.
The Bulls have enough experience overall in their team.
Chilliboy
v/d Merwe
Spies
Morne
WO
Kirchner
As a spine, you can’t get more experience than that amongst SA teams in Super rugby, I think.
2 Apr 2012, 16:31 pm
@nama1(nama1)-108: how are these?
bissie, jannie, beast, alberts, bosman, jpp, odwa, mvovo
brock, tiaan, bekker, vermuelen, grant, jdv, jdj, habana, aplon
2 Apr 2012, 16:56 pm
@seamus(seamus)-106:
Your redneck heritage is clearly showing through, pretending that two Springboks are now somehow inexperienced, Juandre Kruger has played internationally as well as for the Bulls in previous games, yet now somehow he hasn’t got any experience?
One could make a case for Sadie, but it is most definitely not his first season of Superrugby, even though he is pretty young.
Fact remains, a number of the Bulls players has played in a supperrugby winning team, you only lost Matfield, Du Preez and Botha x 2 (I don’t count Rossouw as he isn’t a regular starter (your logic)) then two flankers through injury…although injury is a crutch all super teams must bear…
The Stormers on the other hand lost Jacque Fourie, CJ van der Linde, Francois Louw, Schalk Burger (Injury), Deon Carstens (Injury), (All Springboks), not to mention the other players who would NOT have started necessarily like Sadie, Whitehead, Van Zyl, Pieter Louw etcetera…
Which is where the issue of depth comes in, something many Bulls pride themselves on, the magnificent structures in place at Camp Loftus, if the structures cannot yield sufficient depth, then I am sorry, I cannot see how that can be used as an excuse…it is pretty lame, and almost entirely your own fault.
2 Apr 2012, 16:59 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-109:
I’d say, it is more or less the same.
…which means that Seamus’ point about the so-called inexperience of the Pink Bulls is hogwash.
2 Apr 2012, 17:00 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-109:
I think nama forgot W. Kruger, Ndungane, J Vermaak
2 Apr 2012, 17:29 pm
@thesaint(thesaint)-112:
Actually I didn’t.
Just nominated one player from each sub-unit of the team as the leader, ie front row, lock pairing, loose trio, half back pairing, inside backs and back trio.
If you have at least one experience player in every sub-unit to give guidance to your less experienced players and help with decision making, you can’t claim inexperience as an excuse when you lose.
But, as you pointed out, some of their “lesser experience” players are also very experienced.
2 Apr 2012, 18:14 pm
Bulls got handed the Superugby trophy on a platter by Joubert two seasons ago yet they crying about that penalty. How does a biased ref miss two forward passes in one backline movement? Suck on it bi@tches!
Have your say
You must be logged in to post a comment.