183 Comments

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• 101.Dawn:
  3 Apr 2012, 21:22 pm

  Indeed had an excellent day

• 102.>^..^< katman:
  3 Apr 2012, 21:33 pm

  It’s so simple.

  All the Kings advocates – keo, transie, mshini, etc – say that the Lions aren’t good enough and that’s why they should be replaced by the Kings.

  But are the Kings good enough?

  Only one way to find out. Have them play home and away relegation matches against the Lions.

  And spare me the bullshit about how they’ll be able to build a team with money that has to come from somewhere. That’s hocus pocus once upon a time stuff. That’s not the Kings.

  Home and away promotion/relegation. If it really is about not being good enough, this should sort out the sediment from the shiraz.

  But Cheeky and his useless bunch don’t have the stomach for that. They’d rather play the WE MUST HAVE IT card. Works everywhere else in life.

• 103.Transformation:
  3 Apr 2012, 22:16 pm

  @>^..^< katman(katman)-102: in your DREAMS! it doesn’t work like that in professional leagues, you’re last, you are OUT.

  after 6 years of bullshit & incompetence they still think they’re entitled to relegation/playoff games, without gumede money that the glru swindled off him there would be no currie cup trophy, no john mitchell, no wayne taylor, no butch, no mapoe, no cilliers & the homegrown players would’ve done a runner like alberts, deysel, ludik, fourie, mujati etc.

  no second bite at the cherry, you’re last you’re out!

• 104.the artist formerly known as gunther:
  3 Apr 2012, 22:17 pm

  Indeed.

  Cheeky and Co perspiring to pervert the course of Justice,

  Very dehydrating.

• 105.Transformation:
  3 Apr 2012, 22:22 pm

  @>^..^< katman(katman)-102: you want to use a squad that you put together whole earning money in a competition you were participating in illegally to gauge whether a team with not even half your resources is good enough bwahahaha

  some warped form of “MERIT” this is.

• 106.the artist formerly known as gunther:
  3 Apr 2012, 22:23 pm

  Gumede money?

  Taxpayers money surely?

• 107.>^..^< katman:
  3 Apr 2012, 22:27 pm

  @Transformation(Transformation)-105: Can the Kings beat them? Yes or no? It really is THAT simple in the real world.

  But in the slanted world of WE MUST HAVE IT, things tend to slide all over the place.

  The better team must play. Who do you suppose is the better team?

• 108.>^..^< katman:
  3 Apr 2012, 22:28 pm

  @the artist formerly known as gunther(gunther)-106: Same thing, innit?

• 109.rangerman:
  3 Apr 2012, 22:34 pm

  The Questionable Relationship Between HSM and Luke Watson
  Posted on January 27, 2012 by Yoni Bass | 3 Comments

  Friday saw the announcement of Heyneke Meyer as Springbok coach and confirmation that the Kings will feature in some capacity in 2013 Super Rugby tournament. However, it was the development of another story, which has been simmering beneath the surface for several months now, that caught the attention of many South African rugby followers. That story being the complex and potentially problematic relationship between Luke Watson and Highbury Safika Media (HSM).

  Background

  On the 17th of May 2011, HSM announced, via its online mouthpiece keo.co.za, that it had taken the decision to enter into the sport management business with Luke Watson confirmed as their first client. HSM previous business prior to the signing of Watson as client, was publishing, with pre-eminent titles such as SA Cricket and SA Rugby in its stable. Additionally, through keo.co.za and other social media platforms, HSM supplies daily rugby news to South African rugby fans.

  Whilst the months proceeding Watson’s signing to HSM, saw a rise in his profile in reported items across HSM platforms it was not until the lead up to the annoucement of the Springbok coach that the conflict of interests between HSM’s sport management arm and its news media work began to clearly emerge.

  Lead up to the announcement

  In the days before the announcement, HSM publishing director Mark Keohane released an article titled “Pick the player; then the captain” via keo.co.za which purported to examine the potential options for the position of Springbok captain. The basic premise of the article was that the player selected should first be considered the best player in his position in the country. Several players were named, with Schalk Burger, Bismarck Du Plessis and Juan Smith being at the forefront of that list. However inserted at the end of the naming of candidates was a throw away line on Watson. Keohane stated ” Luke Watson, once the Kings play in the 2013 Super Rugby competition, is also a contender”.

  It must be noted that 28 year old Watson has not been considered for Springbok selection since mid-2008. Moreover, he is currently playing for the EP Kings in the Currie Cup 1st Division and whilst he has performed well, he has certainly not set the rugby world alight. Most rugby pundits and experts, whilst acknowledging Watson’s talent, would admit that at the very minimum Schalk Burger, Juan Smith, Heinrich Brussow and Willem Alberts stand clearly ahead of him in both the skill and ability ranks in the positions of flank and Eighth-man. This doesn’t even account for people like Francois Louw and Pierre Spies.

  To suggest in early 2012, that a 1st division rugby player who has not played for the Springboks in almost 4 years should be considered as one of the best players in his postion and thus a worthy candidate for Springbok captain, is at best ill-informed and contradictory of the basic premise of the article and at worst highly disingenuous and opined with ulterior motives.

  Springbok coach announcement

  Matters came to ahead at the Springbok coach announcement in Cape Town with questions to the newly appointed Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer from Ryan Vrede, a HSM employed journalist, on whether he would consider appointing Luke Watson as Springbok Captain. Despite the bizarre nature of the question, given that Watson is currently languishing in the 1st Division of the Currie Cup, it may have simply have been ignored were it not for the follow up article on the topic written by Jon Cardinelli. The keo.co.za article again devoted several paragraphs to the topic of Watson’s potential candidacy. This after Meyer’s response to the initial question about Watson’s candidacy being non-committal, generic and standard to any player who he would have been questioned on regarding his suitability as a potential Springbok captain.

  The only reason that Watson can be written about as a potential Springbok captain is because HSM have inserted his name into the public discourse on the issue and not because his name would naturally be there. One can only wonder if HSM is attempting to make the news, as opposed to just reporting on it.

  Clarity

  It must be noted that many journalists have personal biases and favourite players which they bring up often in their news reports. HSM though is contracted directly to promote Watson and may benefit financially from Watson having a greater public profile. In fact, depending on how their agreement with him works they could stand to make more money from Watson improving his annual income through increased publicity or Watson being appointed to a higher paid position. Furthermore, as his agents it would not be unreasonable to assume HSM have agreed to promote Watson in their publications.

  Whilst, no one would suggest that HSM should not act directly in the best interests of its business, it is problematic that it is unknown what those interests are. The rugby media consumer has a right to know whether the news HSM provides is in the first instance promotion or whether it is motivated by what is current and newsworthy in the rugby world. In short is business public relations and spin or publishing news. Currently, the answer is unclear with HSM dodging the question throughout the day on social media sites.

  HSM should bring an end to this discussion by either publishing the terms of its agreement with Luke Watson or by explaining honestly and clearly what the priorities of its business are. The rugby watching public deserve to be able to understand the news it is given in the context it was written and not be unwillingly subjected to public relations hidden in legitimate news stories.

  Yoni Bass

• 110.the artist formerly known as gunther:
  3 Apr 2012, 22:36 pm

  Einapoes.

  He must have it.
  

• 111.rangerman:
  3 Apr 2012, 22:40 pm

  haha, taxpayers money is right

• 112.Transformation:
  3 Apr 2012, 22:41 pm

  @victoriabok(victoriabok)-99: they should be kicked out VB, in the most professional leagues in the world even teams that are a 100 years old get kicked out of top flight if they’re bottom of the log…

• 113.victoriabok:
  3 Apr 2012, 22:42 pm

  @Transformation(Transformation)-103:

  > no second bite at the cherry, you’re last you’re out!

  Would the same rule stand for the Kings as well?

• 114.rangerman:
  3 Apr 2012, 22:45 pm

  @Transformation(Transformation)-112: cmon man, you cant compare the two.

  in those leagues the replaement is certain to have been picked ON MERIT.

  straw man.

• 115.>^..^< katman:
  3 Apr 2012, 22:50 pm

  Transie, I think it’s time you reminded this lot of the Dynamic. Because they clearly don’t get it, with their Logic and their Reason and all that nonsense. There is a Dynamic at play here that trumps everything. They MUST get it, right?

• 116.Transformation:
  3 Apr 2012, 22:50 pm

  @>^..^< katman(katman)-107: bullshit! go look at the aviva premiership, you’re last you’re out!

  the amateurish ring fencing of the currie cup will never fly elsewhere in the world.

  even in the barclays premiership it doesn’t matter if is a club steeped in history like newcastle united they get the boot & the likes if swansea, norwich, burnley, hull get a crack at the big time!

  “promotion/relegation” hahaha talk about archaic protectionist bullshit

• 117.stormersboy:
  3 Apr 2012, 22:54 pm

  @rangerman(rangerman)-109: Hahahahahahaha

  ha

  ha

  ….

  mmmmmm…..

• 118.>^..^< katman:
  3 Apr 2012, 22:54 pm

  @Transformation(Transformation)-116: Except in this case it’s not Swansea or Burnley or Norwich. It’s Royston Vasey, who snuck in there from the fifth division because Prince Charles promised his Mommy they would play.

• 119.victoriabok:
  3 Apr 2012, 22:54 pm

  @Transformation(Transformation)-112:

  Hello Transie, sorry I’ve posted while you were replying

  I know here in NA the sports teams must not only perform on the ice, court or field but there should be enough local support and money as well otherwise the NHL or NFL moves the team

  Do you really think there’s enough local money to sustain a Super Team there?

• 120.>^..^< katman:
  3 Apr 2012, 22:57 pm

  I saw a Kings game on TV on the weekend that seemed to have NOT A SINGLE soul in the stadium. The 40 000 empty red seats made for quite a striking visual.

• 121.Transformation:
  3 Apr 2012, 23:03 pm

  @>^..^< katman(katman)-115: how did the Lions remain in super rugby in 2007 if by not being HANDED the spot to play undeservedly and ILLEGALLY?

  nothing like a hypocrite to jump for obfuscation when all else fails.

  the GLRU are like SAA, a bloody financial vaccum/blackhole but the reckon they’re the on merit.

• 122.>^..^< katman:
  3 Apr 2012, 23:04 pm

  @Transformation(Transformation)-121: Who is the better team – the Kings or the Lions? You have avoided this question 4 time now.

• 123.Transformation:
  3 Apr 2012, 23:06 pm

  @>^..^< katman(katman)-115: first tell me what was the “dynamic” when the bottom dwelling lions were allowed to continue playing in super rugby, the original broederbond fatboys club?

• 124.>^..^< katman:
  3 Apr 2012, 23:11 pm

  @Transformation(Transformation)-123: Don’t be deliberately light with the truth. Everyone knows that SARU stepped in and handed the spot back to the Lions because by mid October the Spears were nowhere near Super Rugby in terms of putting a team together. They had more than enough time, but couldn’t organise a piss-up in a brewery, let alone a half decent rugby squad. SARU did the right thing, and I suspect they will do so again.

• 125.Transformation:
  3 Apr 2012, 23:12 pm

  @victoriabok(victoriabok)-119:yes! do you think the NA leagues would’ve stuck around ellis park the way it was deserted? at one point tgey had no more than a couple of thousand peopke showing up at the stadium.

  do you think the lins with their financial chicanery would’ve survived a guy like david stern?

• 126.>^..^< katman:
  3 Apr 2012, 23:13 pm

  @Transformation(Transformation)-125: See my post no.120. Why weren’t you there? I know you weren’t because NO ONE was.

• 127.Markel77:
  3 Apr 2012, 23:14 pm

  Buaaa chaval, these years i have known many Quota players (too many in fact), this going to be my first Cuota team!!!!!!!!!!

• 128.wooden spoon:
  3 Apr 2012, 23:15 pm

  Lol Transie, you cannot defend the indefensible.

• 129.wooden spoon:
  3 Apr 2012, 23:15 pm

  @Markel77(Markel77)-127: howzit Markel.

• 130.wooden spoon:
  3 Apr 2012, 23:16 pm

  @rangerman(rangerman)-109: eina!

  Food for thought.

  News writers or news makers?…

• 131.Transformation:
  3 Apr 2012, 23:17 pm

  @>^..^< katman(katman)-122: if you’d bothered to answer the question in post #39 then maybe i’d reciprocate.

• 132.Markel77:
  3 Apr 2012, 23:20 pm

  Congratulations Wooden!! good victory in Canberra, Playoffs hopes still alive

• 133.Transformation:
  3 Apr 2012, 23:21 pm

  @>^..^< katman(katman)-124: you are talking kak and you know it hahaha

  tony mckeever would put you to shame with your lies!

  even pissant too.

• 134.>^..^< katman:
  3 Apr 2012, 23:24 pm

  @Transformation(Transformation)-131: This was published on 23 October 2006. That’s a couple of months before they were supposed to have started their S14 season. And this is the EP CEO stating that they cannot participate. But he’s still insisting that they do. Go figure.

  Phillip Joseph, Eastern Province Rugby Union CEO spoke on the weekend about the ongoing debacle between SARugby and the Spears which is partially owned by Eastern Province Rugby Union and he admitted to Liam Del Carme of Beeld that the Spears cannot appear in the 2007 Super 14.

  “We know the Spears do not have the infrastructure to participate in the competition next year but we also realize rugby in the region will deteriorate if we do not play Super 14 rugby,” he said.

• 135.Transformation:
  3 Apr 2012, 23:50 pm

  @>^..^< katman(katman)-134: hehehe stop now, i warn you

  phillip joseph is your credible witness/source tl tl tl

  you are scraping the barrel.

  i will point you to the three court cases the Spears won before the 2007 Super 14 season, EVERYTHING there is FACTUAL not soundbytes from corrupt rugby officials who are under investigation by the Hawks & asset forfeiture unit exactly for taking sweeteners to sellout tony mckeever!

  you have no leg to stand on! haha

• 136.Steel Shark:
  3 Apr 2012, 23:57 pm

  Tough one.

  Lions on the one hand have resumed service as usual: complete mess on and off the field, constantly teetering on the edge of financial ruin not being helped by bone headed decisions like the one to stay at Ellis Park. Sure they have some great young players like Jantjies, Taute and Strauss but it’s hard to see them keeping these guys long term if one of the big boys come knocking.

  Kings on the other, we want them to be good enough before they get a chance but they maintain they need a chance before they can be good. Their current team is KAK and the only way they will attract some decent talent is by guaranteeing Super rugby participation, then and only then could they seriously attempt to attract that wealth of quality currently ex-pats plying their trade in Europe.

  I agree the EC needs more rugby but not sure the Kings are ready for it….

• 137.Transformation:
  4 Apr 2012, 00:07 am

  i never thought i’d see the day where katman has to quote Extraball’s SACOS gatgabbas to make his supposed point hehe

  i guess gerald majola would also vouch that the lions’ finances are in order & j arthur brown seconds him…

• 138.Transformation:
  4 Apr 2012, 00:17 am

  @Steel Shark(Steel Shark)-136: this is the conundrum the world over. in the aviva premiership there’such disparity in the wsy the rfu distributes the money to the clubs to a point where it is sometimes seen as pointless for championship teams to be promoted. the teams that were part of the original premiership apparently get more money just because they have more “shares” in the league. in the event that one if the originals gets relegated they get a golden parachute of £1,75 million, which basically means they outmuscle everyone in the championship because of their financial advantage and bounce back up to premieship immediately.

  there’s nothing meritorious about that system either.

• 139.Robzim:
  4 Apr 2012, 00:18 am

  @Steel Shark(Steel Shark)-136:

  Yip, agree with most of what you have said.

  Bottom line is we do not know whether the Kings are ready or will be able to field a strong enough team but we do know for a fact the Lions are kak and have been kak for a long time and will probably be kak next year again.

  I believe they should just give the Kings a chance now and get it over with. Let the Lions go to court or do whatever they want to do but Saru must pull their fingers out of their arses and fulfil their promises to the Kings.

• 140.Transformation:
  4 Apr 2012, 00:19 am

  @wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-128: say your piece & not just waffle hackneyed one liners.

• 141.Transformation:
  4 Apr 2012, 00:25 am

  @Robzim(Robzim)-139: hi robbie. it won’t happen, like i asked keo earlier on this thread whether he knows if the kings have any valid legally binding papers declaring that saru is including them. keo didn’t answer and i bet you there’s no such piece of paper because regan hoskins will NEVER bite the hands that have fed him since 2006 when they backed him against van rooyen.

• 142.Steel Shark:
  4 Apr 2012, 01:53 am

  @Robzim(Robzim)-139:
  See ideally you would like to see the Kings attract quality players who will benefit the franchise long term the likes of Schalke Britz, Brian Mujati, Ruan Pienaar, FLouw, Jacques Cronje etc. But realistically? They will be lucky to get a few journeyman looking to get one last decent pay cheque before they call time. These guys are on very healthy euro salaries playing for established top clubs over there, coming back and playing for the “ugly red-headed step child” of SA rugby is going to be a hard sell for Cheeky and co.

• 143.bryce_in_oz:
  4 Apr 2012, 02:42 am

  I agree… the Lions should be relegated and the next best in the Currie Cup promoted… that most certainly is NOT the Kings… those useless politically motivated chumps cannot even win the next division down!

• 144.Kiefpant:
  4 Apr 2012, 03:57 am

  Whats going to be really funny is when Lions first choice players start to return from injury while Boks become unavailable or injured later in the season. Its been a horrible start to the season, but even with second stringers they only narrowly lost to the Hurricanes and on another day would have beaten the Stormers. 17 points were gifted to the Sharks too. Its a long season, and while its likely the Lions will finish last on the log, dont count your chickens just yet. As for this Transformation guy carrying on about the rights of the Kings to be included, talk about a racist agenda on his part. If the Kings were even able to compete in the Currie Cup, he may have some reason to complain. Given that they are destined for 80 point plus thumpings, Ill rather ask him “Have you no shame?”.

• 145.bryce_in_oz:
  4 Apr 2012, 04:48 am

  @Kiefpant(Kiefpant)-144:

  Injuries are part and parcel of Super Rugby… ask the Stormers last year… the Lions have been gobshite for the better part of a decade now… time for someone else to share a piece of the pie… but it most certainly isn’t the Kings…

• 146.the artist formerly known as gunther:
  4 Apr 2012, 05:23 am

  They MUST get it.

  Remember there is a stadium to pay for.

  Its standing empty right now.

  I wouldn’t worry though.

  If we can make the charges against Comrade Mduli disappear we can do anything right?

• 147.bryce_in_oz:
  4 Apr 2012, 05:40 am

  @the artist formerly known as gunther(gunther)-146:

  Who is going to pay Luke’s wages, Keo’s commissions and just what coffers are there for Cheeky to swindle if they don’t?

• 148.the artist formerly known as gunther:
  4 Apr 2012, 05:54 am

  What commission has Keo earned?

  It’s not like he was needed to negotiate with Daddy over boy wonder’s allowance?

  I suspect keo is earning his crust on the propoganda front.

  That and the new action figures due to be released as soon as the super rugby spot is secured.

• 149.bryce_in_oz:
  4 Apr 2012, 06:50 am

  @the artist formerly known as gunther(gunther)-148:

  Luke was Voldermort and co’s first ‘big’ sport’s management signing.

• 150.Kiefpant:
  4 Apr 2012, 06:54 am

  @bryce_in_oz(bryce_in_oz)-145:

  The difference is that much like the Cheetahs, the Lions have been getting raped of their talent for the last 10 years too. If you cant hold onto your team with the annual player raids there is not much a side can do to build is there? Amazing what improvement we have seen with just two years of continuity and a capable coach.

  Their record is poor, but they are a major team from the financial heart of the country and have a long history. It does South African rugby no good to see them this poorly managed, but its even worse throwing them away altogether given that too. No side in this competition would be competitive with 13 first choice players injured either, dont give me this “its part of Super Rugby” nonsense. The Reds are not down half as many and we are seeing the Super Rugby champs getting ***** slapped at the moment. And when a second string Lions side, which is basically Vodacom Cup level, can compete to the point they have, then its hardly doom and gloom as far as I am concerned

  For all the jokes made about the Lions, between us and the Cheetahs, we do a good job of keeping your stables well stocked.

  The Kings are a joke. Nothing more than political nonsense, and the fact that an “impartial” journalist like Keo is no longer critical of it just goes to show that perhaps the claim of an agenda on his part may not be that far from the truth. No one should be supportive of this farce.

  The season has a way to go and its reaching the point where we have nothing to lose. The naysayers though? May very well end up eating their hats by the time the final log is posted.

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