Mitchell backs Cats solution
9 May 2012
John Mitchell says Saru’s handling of the Southern Kings saga has been poor and unfair and believes a Cats merger will be the best way forward.
It’s been four months and 14 days since Saru dropped the bomb that the Kings will play Super Rugby in 2013. While the decision is great news for the Eastern Cape region, the fact that the national union made this decision without a solution as to how all six franchises will be accommodated next season, and its delay in announcing one, has caused more harm than good.
Saru has asked Sanzar for permission to enter all six teams next year. But this request was declined because of Super Rugby’s broadcasting commitment to the current 15-team conference format that only expires in 2015. Saru then planned a rescue mission trip to Australasia in March and put together a delegation that it believed could convince its partners to reconsider. However, this never materialised.
This lack of progress has caused a lot of speculation within the South African rugby fraternity and media. There have been talks of a relegation process, with the Lions picked as the likely option for the drop because of their poor Super Rugby record, while there also suggestions that the Lions and Cheetahs should play as the Cats again, like they did from 1998-2005.
Saru has set a date on 17 May to meet with all local franchises to discuss the Kings debacle. However, Lions head coach John Mitchell has criticised the union for their poor handling of the matter.
‘As a national body, Saru should be more transparent about their thought process,’ Mitchell told keo.co.za from New Zealand. ‘It should have made a decision on how the Kings will be accommodated by now so that all the parties can plan ahead. It [the criticism] is not something one wants to talk about, but Saru needed to be clearer and it is being unfair on all the teams, players and management being speculated about.’
So what is the best way forward, from a Lions point of view? Mitchell believes the Cheetahs and Lions should merge to create a franchise that will boast quality depth and compete for the title.
‘South African rugby should be entering teams into Super Rugby that have a strong chance of winning the competition. As separate franchises, the Cheetahs and Lions have struggled, especially when there are injuries. If we had to combine teams, we would have a squad strong enough to deal with issues and that will be capable of winning on a regular basis.’
The initial Cats initiative broke down because of financial and logistic issues. Both teams complained about living out of hotels, being away from their families, while the two unions had to share the profits accumulated. There is also the question about appointing a management team.
Mitchell argued that these issues can be resolved.
‘The problems you mention are just hurdles in the way of the best solution. If the necessary input is given by both teams, we can build a strong community and culture, and appoint strong leaders to take this merger forward.
‘We have a similar structure in New Zealand, where players from different provinces – sometimes five different teams – have to play as one Super Rugby franchise. This is what I experienced when playing for the Chiefs, and look how they’re doing now. The Cats were also once successful, so there are no reasons why they can’t achieve similar results if the necessary work is done.
‘In terms of management, we have to offer the player the best resources to work with. So a management team that consists of coaches from both the Lions and Cheetahs will have to be drawn up. I won’t mind working with the Cheetahs coaches.’
In the past, Cheetahs CEO Harold Verster and other management have argued strongly against the possibility of merging with the Lions. But considering the threat of relegation and Saru hosting a meeting with all South African franchise next week, Verster did not rule out the possibility of an amalgamation.
‘We are joining Saru and the other franchises for a meeting on 17 May,’ Verster also told this site. ‘We will not comment on this matter until we have discussed the situation with the other parties. Once there is more clarity, we can speak about possible steps forward.’
By Gareth Duncan
116 Comments
9 May 2012, 12:41 pm
This is not a situation any Dragon can be proud of.
9 May 2012, 12:45 pm
Mitchel will say that because it is the only way the Lions will feature in next years supper rugby
9 May 2012, 12:46 pm
oops….supper = super
9 May 2012, 12:49 pm
@cane(cane)-1:
Cat’s record certainly nothin’ to be proud of either,yet Mitchell makes sense,far more depth and talent in a super cats team.
9 May 2012, 12:50 pm
You Keo boys did not get the memo – no way in hell those political harlots from PE will be playing supperrugby anytime soon.
9 May 2012, 12:53 pm
Actually makes sense that the two weakest teams merge. Which would have Lions and Kings combining.
Naturally, the Kings guarantee of entry makes this improbable, but in purely rugby terms, would ensure the best chance of getting good results.
9 May 2012, 12:53 pm
@RL(RL)-5: Saru officially announced their promise to the Kings…in January already: http://www.keo.co.za/2012/01/27/kings-to-play-super-rugby-in-2013/
9 May 2012, 12:53 pm
A Cats team will be a strong team.
9 May 2012, 12:59 pm
@Gareth(GarethDuncan)-7: and the follow up letter from the existing super franchises telling SARU this …
“None of the existing franchises shall be prejudiced by such inclusion [of the Kings] in any way whatsoever; none of the existing franchises shall be eliminated from the tournament in 2013 or at any stage thereafter as a result of the inclusion of the Kings.”
Gareth D, I see through the spin that Keo is forcing you to spin.
9 May 2012, 13:01 pm
@willievz(willievz)-8:
I believe so,the question will be how well the coaching staff gells?Naka vs Mitchell,2 totally different sets of coaching cultures.
9 May 2012, 13:01 pm
@RL(RL)-9: Saru make the decisions unfortunately, not the franchises.
9 May 2012, 13:01 pm
Yes I do believe a Cats team will be a strong team.
This then leaves the Kings to be the new whipping boys on the block.
9 May 2012, 13:02 pm
Just will not work. the history and fan bases will struggle to support the ideal. But if it matter of survival, then guess no other option.
It is tragic that SA RUgby has come to this – where Politics is the motivation behind a team being pushed into a professional competition.
9 May 2012, 13:05 pm
A Lions and kings team can be called Simba
9 May 2012, 13:06 pm
@greatest13gerber(greatest13gerber)-13:
EP is not weak, EP is strong!
9 May 2012, 13:08 pm
Ja, maybe in Danie Gerber’s day EP were strong.
9 May 2012, 13:11 pm
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-15: Strong in what….”ou mens marbles” it sure isn’t rugby
9 May 2012, 13:11 pm
@Gareth(GarethDuncan)-11: the same SARU that guaranteed the EC a spot in superrugby way back in 2006?
admit it I’ve got you cornered
9 May 2012, 13:15 pm
Logistically, it would be much better if the Lions and Bulls merge. Maybe it will add a bit of class to the Bulls.
9 May 2012, 13:18 pm
@RL(RL)-18: Not at all
Kings will play Super Rugby in 2013
9 May 2012, 13:18 pm
@TooMuchRugby(TooMuchRugby)-19:
The classy Lions will never allow that merger!
9 May 2012, 13:19 pm
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-15:
yes. to see the Mighty Elephants again on tv again would bring a tear to the eye. Despite the political puppetmasters who are pulling the strings.
aah to see those famous colors again..
9 May 2012, 13:19 pm
@TooMuchRugby(TooMuchRugby)-19: actually the EC Kings must marry the WC Queens … a match made in heaven.
9 May 2012, 13:19 pm
@TooMuchRugby(TooMuchRugby)-19:
Logistically a merge between Sharks and Kings makes the most sense imo.Keep it coastal and might just do something for sharks backline.
9 May 2012, 13:22 pm
Mitch:
Can’t get a Job in Europe .
Fired form a Job in NZ.
Not wanted in Oz anymore.
Soon to be expelled from Lions Country.
The CV is not looking to sharp.
9 May 2012, 13:23 pm
@Superbru(Superbru)-24: Agree, the Guppies will end below the Cheetahs anyway.
9 May 2012, 13:26 pm
@cane(cane)-25:
Got a currie cup title,gotta stand for something surely?
9 May 2012, 13:28 pm
The Kings will not play in the 2013 tournament. And that’s a concrete cold fact.
9 May 2012, 13:29 pm
@Superbru(Superbru)-24: What’s coastal gotta do with it? Will they take the boat to practice.
9 May 2012, 13:30 pm
A lot of Lions players stay in Pretoria anyway and vice versa.
9 May 2012, 13:32 pm
Die Lions is so k@k ek dink selfs Mitchell is bly EP Kings gaan hulle vervang. Die lions gaan ook nie gou weer Super Rugby speel nie …. EP kings on the rise!
9 May 2012, 13:32 pm
I wonder how the sponsors will feel if they merge?
9 May 2012, 13:33 pm
@TooMuchRugby(TooMuchRugby)-29: read up on the Coastal Sharks … the original Shark and EC superrugby franchise that was created. Easy for SARU to include the corrupt harlots from the EC back into the guppy franchise.
9 May 2012, 13:35 pm
what sponsors? Lions doesn’t even have enough money to buy “black like me” – hairgel for Elton J
9 May 2012, 13:36 pm
@cane(cane)-25:
It seems that Mitch and King Carlos are being recalled back to middle earth.
” Breaking news: The Blues franchise heaped even more pressure on embattled coach Pat Lam by revealing that they are going to put his job up to tender.”
9 May 2012, 13:42 pm
@Superbru(Superbru)-24: That was the original idea with the franchise system in SA, to pool different unions in close geographic proximity into one franchise.
Didn’t the Sharks franchise start off with the name Coastal Sharks? It included the Kings.
Likewise with the Northern Bulls and Western Stormers.
Those prefixes have been done away with, which essentially killed any attempt to install a sense of regionalism with our franchises.
At current, the five “franchises” are merely the big 5 unions. Provincialism rules, unfortunately.
The only franchises that actively employ players from other unions are the Lions and especially the Cheetahs.
9 May 2012, 13:45 pm
@RL(RL)-35:
Mitch and King Carlos are to Rugby Coaching circles what Bonny and Clyde were to the Banking Sector.
All style , no substance.
9 May 2012, 13:47 pm
@willievz(willievz)-36: Yep,certainly been down this road before with hardly any pleasant memories,SARU must decide and I have less than faith in them either.
9 May 2012, 13:51 pm
@Superbru(Superbru)-24:
The Sharks have been signing the best young players from the EC region for a few years now. Why should they now have to share the spoils?
9 May 2012, 13:54 pm
@David(David)-39: The Guppies have signed all their player from other unions…..they can’t breed their own.
9 May 2012, 13:58 pm
@cane(cane)-37:
Or Whatever and Grant100 are to the Sa education system.
9 May 2012, 13:59 pm
@David(David)-39: @TheJoker(TheJoker)-40:
In a professional era, buying and recruiting players from different parts of the map is part of the game.
I agree that the Sharks are doing it excessively though, but ultimately from a SA Rugby perspective, this conundrum is a red herring.
The real concern should be where all the talented Natal schoolboys end up in the SA Rugby system.
9 May 2012, 14:17 pm
Gareth mate, did simon poke you and john with a stick and make you agree to this stupid idea??
9 May 2012, 14:22 pm
solution…
the CATS are the official team to play…
then rotate the entire teams…
play the cheetahs on even weekends…
and the lions on odd weekends…
reckon they’ll more quite a few teams…
9 May 2012, 14:22 pm
more = moer…
9 May 2012, 14:25 pm
If there is a Cats team they will always be the ‘cheetahs’ to me whether or not there are lions players…
9 May 2012, 14:25 pm
Ahhhh my pussycats.
I told you to do this at the start of the season.
Now you are negotiating from a position of weakness.
This will end up in court.
And there will be no winners.
Except the lawyers.
Always the ******* lawyers.
9 May 2012, 14:37 pm
@Gareth(GarethDuncan)-20:
No they wont, this whole thing is just a political attempt to get fans attentions, there will be no Kings next year, I highly doubt it especially if you consider that last week they lost the quarter finals of the vodacom cup… A team capable of playing super rugby would dominate the vodacom cup… Even the lions
9 May 2012, 14:40 pm
@cane(cane)-25:
Mitch is a good ocach – to get the results with the players he had last year is an archievement itself.
@the artist formerly known as gunther(gunther)-47:
lawyers make a good living these days
9 May 2012, 14:55 pm
What’s the issue here. WP/Stormers got relegated in 1997…1998 was the The Stormers biggest year. New kit, attitude, coach, etc. I would like to see the Kings play just so that I don’t have to see the lousy Lions again.
9 May 2012, 15:00 pm
I think its funny that the Lions are saying they are being treated unfairly. Sooooo, are you saying when the Super rugby competition was formed and the Eastern Province region was excluded (and the big 5 were given a free ride) that that was fair?? Give me a break. The Lions are a union being managed like ****.
9 May 2012, 15:01 pm
The debacle is upon us and the kings are suppose to be stepping up…. And initially the Cats idea sounds a reasonable one but what happens at the end of the 2013 Super Rugby season when the Kings get battered to high heaven as they did in the pre-season friendlies aginst our normal super sides. Do the Kings then drop out and the Cats separate back into their original identities….
I also can’t see any huge crowds and support at major traditional stadiums here in SA when the Kings play their away games…. ie at Newlands, Loftus, Durban etc…
9 May 2012, 15:06 pm
Soooo, whats going to happen if the Cheetahs beat the Stormers this weekend, will they still look at merging knowing the Cheetahs are able to beat any one in S15? I know the Stomers’ supporters will laugh it off as they always do but only a fool will wright the Cheetahs off. Gysie Pienaar reckons if Sias plays they way he knows he can, its going to be a long day for the Stormers.
9 May 2012, 15:08 pm
@greatest13gerber(greatest13gerber)-49: Downgraded Currie Cup. WP was effectively playing most of their U/21 squad in that Currie Cup.
9 May 2012, 15:11 pm
Student. What free ride? If the Lions are keeping a better side out then yes, but the Kings cant even keep up with the Griquas and Pumas.
9 May 2012, 15:13 pm
@RugbyStudent(RugbyStudent)-51: Excluded? They weren’t excluded when Super Rugby was formed, remember? They played with the Sharks. What you meant to say is that they took the money on offer from the Sharks and ran, like a useless bimbo wife who recognised a fair divorce deal.
9 May 2012, 15:14 pm
sad stet of affairs.
the D grading of the currie cup as well.
9 May 2012, 15:17 pm
SARU is going to have to cough up alot of money next year to keep all affected parties happy.
9 May 2012, 15:44 pm
@Sasuke(Sasuke)-58: Theyll have to split it 6 ways. Cats to get 2 pieces of the Super comp cake…
9 May 2012, 15:46 pm
I know I’m going to be grilled now but isn’t it more sense for the Bulls and Lions to merge? No logistical problems – two stadiums within an hour from each other – they can be called the
Bu(i)lions. Everyone should be happy with such an arrangement.
9 May 2012, 15:47 pm
I mean the Bulls should embrace getting the Currie Cup Champions to join them.
9 May 2012, 16:05 pm
If they split the purse 6 ways, all the unions will want to merge with the team which is hanging on to the bottom spot. The money will be just too enticing. This is going too be fun to watch SARU squeese out of this one.
9 May 2012, 16:06 pm
“Both teams complained about living out of hotels, being away from their families”
So – the fairest thing for the Cats would be to make Kroonstad the new Home Base – its half way between! I can see on Google Maps that its got a lekker railway marshalling yard, but has it got a Rugby Stadium?
9 May 2012, 16:11 pm
The cat just move to the FNB stadium, all stay in Soweto, now that will bring rugby to the masses.
9 May 2012, 16:14 pm
@BillTong(BillTong)-63:
Haha Kroonstad! Sounds like a City the Kings should play at!
Perhaps they should just make Bloem the home stadium and try to get the Lions players settled for the year during the Super comp… Or they should get a sponsor from SAA or Mango!
9 May 2012, 16:15 pm
FNB stadium is only 4 Hours drive from Bloemfontein. When Natal came back to the currie cup Baartman used to fly to Durban and back almost everyday from Johannesburg.
9 May 2012, 16:17 pm
@Bill Reyts(Gumboots)-60:
that really does make the most sense…
logistics… geography… alles…
9 May 2012, 16:17 pm
@Bill Reyts(Gumboots)-60:
Sounds like the easiest solution but will never happen.
Bulls are self suffiecient and would never dilute their brand. Which is exactly what would happen in that scenario.
9 May 2012, 16:18 pm
@John Galt(John Galt)-68:
‘sufficient’
9 May 2012, 16:31 pm
@umkhonto(umkhonto)-66: That was purely his choice, nobody forced him to join the guppies…
9 May 2012, 16:37 pm
brumbies boy,who siad wahl complained?
lem travelled from bergville to practice and once even had to help with the birth of his child in his car cause his wife gave birth early.
fortuanatly he had a pocketknife to cut the umbilical cord with.
9 May 2012, 16:37 pm
brumbies boy,who siad wahl complained?
lem travelled from bergville to practice and once even had to help with the birth of his child in his car cause his wife gave birth early.
fortuanatly he had a pocketknife to cut the umbilical cord with.
9 May 2012, 16:59 pm
This seems oddly appropriate here:
“I turn on the tube and what do I see
A whole lotta people cryin’ “Don’t blame me”
They point their crooked little fingers at everybody else
Spend all their time feelin’ sorry for themselves
Victim of this, victim of that
Your momma’s too thin; your daddy’s too fat
Get over it
Get over it
All this whinin’ and cryin’ and pitchin’ a fit
Get over it, get over it
You say you haven’t been the same since you had your little crash
But you might feel better if they gave you some cash
The more I think about it, Old Billy was right
Let’s kill all the lawyers, kill ‘em tonight
You don’t want to work; you want to live like a king
But the big, bad world doesn’t owe you a thing
Get over it
Get over it
If you don’t want to play, then you might as well split
Get over it, get over it
Thanks Messrs Henley and Frey.
9 May 2012, 17:03 pm
If you take pure population figures (i.e. Jo’burg vs Bloemfontein) and calculate the midpoint between Ellis Park and Bloem stadium, you’d probably find that it’s somewhere around Soweto. And that I could live with.
9 May 2012, 17:35 pm
The last Cats experiment was disasterous for both franchises. The lions, who won the first ever Superrugby competition, have never recovered from it. Kings must wait until there is place for a sixth team in our conference
9 May 2012, 17:47 pm
welcome carol sharkette,get ready for some abuse
the good peeps on here is
myself
puma
wooden spoon
mad eye
great white shark
tree hugger
heavens game
pre dawn
just for starters
all the kiwis on here are cheating filth
9 May 2012, 18:16 pm
@Fern is not a stud,he is merely no19(Fern)-76: hey why am i excluded :angry: lol
9 May 2012, 18:20 pm
just for starters i said…
sharkslover are included
9 May 2012, 18:28 pm
thanks kind sir lol
9 May 2012, 18:34 pm
add mad eye aswell
fresh face full of gustoand believe
sharks lover feel fre to add names please.
9 May 2012, 18:45 pm
At first I was dead set against this merger but after much thought I cannot see another solution to make it all work out until the Super Series gets reviewed in 2015. The Wildcats name has been proposed that has awesome branding and marketing potential. Such a name get rid of any domestic cat implications
.
Can work if the leadership is right. Make Mallett DOR and involve both Naka and Mitch. What a team! I agree with Mitch, there is just no way these two teams will ever win the SR title with the depth each has on their own. As the Wildcats they will stand a realistic chance … exactly what we want. The injuries at the Lions is proof of this.
Such a merger will also take the pressure of the GLRU as they rebuild the union and brand. They buy more time by merging. Yes the Lions will lose players but so be it.
The major issue is financial. Give this new team 2/6 share and they will bite. The logistics can be worked out when the money is right and the teams can afford to do things properly. The last Cats mess operated on fumes.
Sponsors? Toyota and MTN will have to find common ground or one must climb out. MTN’s Lions sponsorship was tied to Gumede. Maybe they want out now that Gumede is out? TOYOTA Wildcats will work for me. Or MTN-TOYOTA Wildcats. No, MToyN Wildcats will not fly … LOL!
9 May 2012, 19:07 pm
ep is strong lol kan nie eens die pumas wen nie ,ja in die tyd van Danie Gerber ja ma wat lekke is van die kings al die spanne gaan 5 pointers kry julle keo manne met percy is grond dom lmpa
9 May 2012, 19:12 pm
There is no end to SARU’s muddles is there?
Speaking before making a plan is the sign of an organisation that doesn’t know its arse from its elbow.
SARU should have sorted out the logistics before announcing this and plummeting the Lions (who have the worst record) into the abyss. Yes, the Lions have been poor, but they showed such promise last year.
How hard must it be for Mitch to motivate players who must surely be looking elsewhere and finding it hard to “play for the jersey”? They may be pros but there is still the demand for morale.
SARU just does not know what is going on – politics first, rugby second and fans last.
SARU have completely messed up the Currie Cup – it is dead and a worthless exercise. ABSA should ask for their money back. With the Super 15 and 4N there is no longer any time to play the Currie Cup. It must go away, history or not, or else SARU have to pull out of Super 15. One has to be sacrificed. Players are playing more and more and are getting more injuries.
We the fans are being robbed by sub-standard rugby and we just cheer it on every weekend. Remember the excitement of a Super Saturday during the Super 12 – 5 games of the most intense rugby. Now? There may sometime be 5 games but there’s shopping to be done in the morning and if its an Aussie derby you can forget it – the **** is dished up from their derbies beggars belief.
The only game that stands out this year has been the Stormers/Bulls match, the rest have been unremarkable.
Have you guys seen when Super 15 finishes the league phase on this website – 14 August, with the first round of the 4N the following weekend. Are these dates correct? Is there an overlap of the 4N and S15? WTF???
SARU must either pull out of Super 15 or drop the Currie Cup, one has to go. Sorry provinces, but your time has come as professional unions. We’ll live with 5 franchises (under S15) or 6 Test Unions (under Currie Cup) and the blazers can get lost.
9 May 2012, 19:17 pm
@Fern is not a stud,he is merely no19(Fern)-72: Nobody said he complained but it’s obvious what will happen to both Cheetahs & Lions players if they have to travel vast differences for training etc if this stupid, illogical merger takes place.
9 May 2012, 19:38 pm
@Kat(Katsesnor)-81: Wildcats, ppppffffffffffff
Meerkatte!
9 May 2012, 19:39 pm
The Cats failed because they refused to sort out the logistics and tried to stay 50/50, one game here another there – practice here, practice there = mess.
If there is another merger there can only be one home stadium and one practice field etc. Those who are in the wrong town will have to move – simple.
If they don’t do that then the whole thing will fail, again.
If the Lions have to move to Bloem then that is what it takes, and similarly for the Cheetahs. If the team is strong, Ellis Park is bigger and will generate more revenue. Once the team had menial success the terraces started filling big time. There are more fans in JHB than Bloem.
Do the maths and base it in JHB – sorry Bloem, FSS is too small.
9 May 2012, 19:45 pm
@zoo cleaner(zoo cleaner)-83:
Super 15 conference winner cup to become new currie cup,1st round to Stormers.
9 May 2012, 20:00 pm
@Kat , Go the Mtn PK Meerkatte!
9 May 2012, 20:16 pm
Harold Verster DO NOT agree to any merger. Mitchell can go suck his own balls. He knows nothing about the mess this was the last time. Stop trying to save your own ***!
9 May 2012, 20:33 pm
I think geographically the Bulls and Lions are closer – so if a new combined franchise is formed using these two teams, it could be renamed the ‘Bloins’ or just ‘Bullsh&$@ for short.
However should Mitchell and Naka ever team up – as I’ve been told in a thick Afrikaans accent – da sharks will never win da cats! Maybe that should be changed to the Kings instead…. Cannon fodder anyone? I can’t imagine how Saru plan on guaranteeing the Kings will be competitive as they claim.
9 May 2012, 20:51 pm
@Murrayz(Murrayz)-90: Playing the Kings will be like a bye,except your team will get 5 points instead of the 4.
9 May 2012, 20:56 pm
And possible injuries.
9 May 2012, 20:59 pm
@Treehugger(Treehugger)-92:
Yeah…there’s always that.
9 May 2012, 21:37 pm
@Murray, lol. Geographically it makes sense and the majority lions fans turned into bulls fans in the last 10yrs… Go the Blions!
9 May 2012, 21:57 pm
So at the end of 2013 when the ‘Kingzzzz’ have lost every game by 50 -100 points and end up with only their bye bonus points (that’s why it was introduced right?), will Saru admit defeat and force a merge with the Stormers or Sharks to form the ‘Stings’ or the ‘Coastal Sharks’. Realistically the best solution is an annual relegation. This will keep the Kings in the second tier where they belong as a feeder system. Go the Bloins!
9 May 2012, 22:06 pm
@RugbyStudent(RugbyStudent)-51: you are a twat or most likly stealing time on you dads pc, the EC sold their Super comp rights to the Sharks many moons ago.
They had their chance but mismanaged it into bankruptcy.
9 May 2012, 22:07 pm
@Slappes
Bulls=Blou Bulle (korrekte spelling) Merged with
Lions=Loins (unmentionables bits below the bulls legs)
Yields the latest franchise the ‘Bloins’!
9 May 2012, 22:10 pm
@Sasuke(Sasuke)-54: Sasuke another koos talking k@k there were 6 boks in the line up, where is the WP depth? o yes in Canada I see they got a Cannuck to help them out.
If the Stormers get knocked out in the Play offs are you going tov say it was a watered down S15?.
9 May 2012, 22:23 pm
@Kat(Katsesnor)-81: Here is ONE Lions supporter who got some common sense occupying his brain.. and not this wishful thinking emotional hogwash slapped around these pages.
take a bold step FORWARD for once in your goddamn lives and STOP hearkening after YESTERDAY..!!!
9 May 2012, 22:28 pm
@skopskiet(skopskiet)-99: Kat = Keo incognito
9 May 2012, 22:38 pm
@Wanderer(Wanderer)-100: Nope he’s a true Lions supporter who ain’t allowing his brain to get mesmerized by melodramatic melancholic prestige and reminiscences and sees some writing on the wall and embraces whats going down rather than gooi wal and panic stations frenetic hanker to all the history that’s already gone wafting down the Jukskei river already…
9 May 2012, 22:48 pm
@skopskiet(skopskiet)-101: True supporter my @ss, roll over and take like a true bergie just to please this crowd and fit in.
nobody is panicking, just a question of true loyalty.
9 May 2012, 23:00 pm
@Wanderer(Wanderer)-102: He’s saying.. (which funnily enough Mitch is almost acclimatizing his own mind to)… that ..
Lions on their own.. and Cheetahs on their own are a train smash roll over Beethoven team of willing trying grafting solo artists but simply do NOT have the financial clout NOR the talent depth to EVER become serious contenders in this Super Rugby scenario..
So read the goddamn SIGNS already if you haven’t been able to read them since 1999 – 2000 or thereabouts that Lions and Cheetahs are practically almost dead men walking on thin ice in a world full of money grubbing mercenaries who steal all their thunder before it leaves the cannon..
AMALGAMATE and grow strong in depth and numbers and bring in a decent DOR like Mallet and have Mitchell and Naka pooling resources and I betcha that in couple years time a combined Wildcat team will whip the Bully Boys a fancy new arsehole for free…
9 May 2012, 23:15 pm
@skopskiet(skopskiet)-103: If it did not work previously and ruined both the unions financialy why will it work now?
If the Lions could win it once before then I believe they can do it again.
The Stormers have never won it since the inception of the super comp in 1993, yes they have reached the playoffs more times than the Lions, but they cannot lay claim to having won the title.
9 May 2012, 23:31 pm
@Wanderer(Wanderer)-104: Only ONE team from 15 can win the title once a year.. so reaching playoffs or even top half of the table is still some kind of achievement over a season..
But if your team is sucking the hind titty backside of the comp year in year out ad infinitude forever and again to eternity and back.. where on earth you ever going to see it turn around again in the foreseeable future under current strained conditions?..
this year Lions were going to transpose their CC success on the S15.. so wtf happened..?? they found out watered down CC is NOT super rugby and never will be..
Cheetahs and Lions are perennial bottom feeders along with Force and now Melbourne and Blues .. but NZ teams at least keep bouncing up and down the table.. Lions however have entrenched themselves at the arse end of it for ever since Kitch parted company with Oberholzer..
When any company starts staring at a liquidity drain either in player resource or financial.. then there is two options facing the CEO.. pull the plug and call it a day.. or try find a loophole and a way out the debilitating labyrinth of seeming no return.
If merging with Cheetahs bring the best of both unions together rather than focus on a traditional rivalry preventing a marriage of compromise and convenience, it could actually bring about a new force in the SA landscape rather than two limp lame ducks trying to stay afloat year after painful year.. they could even aim at shooting for the top dog position within a pretty short time of it if they can get it right.
9 May 2012, 23:38 pm
WP were relegated in this comp in 1997 .. it didn’t kill us.. we came back stronger a year or two later and vowed never to go down again..
can’t have everybody winning this thing.. only one team can do so once a year.. but a good fight for the playoffs is a worthy achievement .. winning ain’t everything you know.. its actually how you play the game that actually counts..
Winning is usually a by product of playing the game well.. and not the be all end all focus of the coach and team.. rather go game by game to achieve a good pattern of performance.. if you win at the end of the exercise then that’s a well earned bonus.. but shouldn’t be the primary focus from the beginning.
10 May 2012, 00:22 am
Mitch and Carlos want to move back to NZ to coach the Blues so they’re trying to make themselves redundant.
10 May 2012, 02:02 am
It is not only the future of Lions players that are at stake but also the two feeder
provinces Leopards and Pumas (northwest and Mpumalanga) The Free State
draws players from Free State, Griffons and Griquas,.
It is mainly the vast geographical distance that has been a stumbling block in
a successful merger between the Cheetahs and Lions.A far better solution
would be to have the first Currie Cup Round before the Super 15
starts.In this competition all Currie Cup teams should compete in two pools
as before.The winner and runner up of pool B to challenge 4 and 5th placed team of pool A for place in the Super 15.If you are not good enough to make it locally, you not going to make it internationally. The top 3 teams of pool ‘A” qualify automatically.
10 May 2012, 02:10 am
@BillTong(BillTong)-63:
Loubscher Park or something like that (probably got a fancy new name now), the 2500 supporters will fill it to the brim every match day!
Anyway, on the subject of another Cats merger…Einstein had a great definition of insanity…need I say more!
10 May 2012, 02:18 am
As for Mitch, useless coach following the blueprint set with every team he has coached to the T. Great in year 1 and downhill from there, this article was just a hint of the blame game he will start playing now until some unsuspected team decides he is the next big thing….and the cycle will start all over again.
Someone mentioned above how hard it must be for him to motivate the players…say what! What more motivation than being dropped from Super Rugby do you need? Injuries? Sure but other teams suffer as well and how does injurie explain poor or non-existent gameplans and tackling and handling like 15 Pierre Spiess’?
Nah, i feel sorry for the Lions but they did not listen to advice.
10 May 2012, 02:54 am
@Slartibartfast(Slartibartfast)-110:
Lions thought they were on to a winner with Mr Mitchell, but he is not a good coach……. a limited coach as in his playing days.. a limited player…. and a bit of a sulk.
10 May 2012, 03:51 am
It seems that all conferences are suffering a bit compared to the good old super 12 days. I think with the power of European money taking players from all three SANZAR members, (Particularly that middle layer of players, experienced but not 1st choice test players). has left us all weaker then we were 10 years ago. I think even 12 teams now would be pushing it in terms of depth. This problem will only get worse as European teams get richer and we get poorer trying to keep up financially. Either they change their policies and focus on home grown players or we accept the player drain will eventually take everyone of quality. If it continues the French league will become a higher standard with more exciting matches than international rugby. Teams will be littered with all star players who pull out of representing their nations for anything but a world cup. It seems European rugby is following the football model and is already becoming too powerful to stop.
10 May 2012, 04:31 am
@Te Rangatira(Te Rangatira)-111:
Well they should have had a closer look at his track record and maybe spoken to a few of the Force players and officials…feck, they could have read some comments on keo to help them out. But no, they had to go and waste money before they learn…assuming they have!
10 May 2012, 09:50 am
@skopskiet(skopskiet)-105: Again you are not following the news 13 of the starting line up injured and you ask what happened, the Stormers loose 4 players and then they import the players from Canada.
Like I said LIONS4LIFE!
10 May 2012, 10:41 am
Uhm… John. With this merger it will be 6 unions combined into one. The distance between these unions is larger than the size of NZ. No way in hell it will ever work sufficiently.
10 May 2012, 13:28 pm
The reason why the Cats COULD work this time is if they base it in free state… Being that the cheetahs were better and the lineup would be very strong
1. Conie Ooshuizen
2. Adriaan Strauss
3. WP Nel
4. Franco Van der Merwe
5. Paul willemse
6. Derrick Minnie
7. Heinrich Brousouw
8. Joshua strauss
9. Piet Van Zyl
10. The Goosman
11. Willie Le roux
12. Alwyn Hollenbach
13. Robert eborsohn
14. Andries Coetzee
15. Jaco taute
And jantjies I have a feeling will move to stormers
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