Lions set for chop?
11 May 2012
Saru has confirmed its plan to relegate the last-placed South African franchise at the end of the season.
This proposed solution was made by Saru’s executive council at its special general meeting in January. The top four teams on the SA conference log would therefore join the Kings in 2013. As it stands, the Lions would drop out.
Saru said a promotion-relegation play-off would then take place after the 2013 and 2014 campaigns.
However, the franchises requested that a decision on the mechanism of qualification be postponed to allow them time to make alternative proposals. The officials at the general meeting accepted the request. Saru CEO Jurie Roux asked for it to be recorded that this delay was at the franchises’ request, therefore precluding the franchises from criticism of late decision-making.
A final decision will be made after meetings with the SA Super Rugby franchises on 17 May, the Saru executive committee on 24 May and the Saru general council on 13 July (21 rounds into the 2012 Super Rugby tournament).
‘Rugby has been consistently united in supporting the Kings’ place in Super Rugby in 2013,’ said Roux. ‘Our focus has been on finding a rugby answer to the questions that flow from that that’s fair, transparent in its mechanism and will strengthen South African rugby in the long run. Those discussions continue.
‘Until a final decision is reached, the franchises and the Saru presidency are agreed that it would be unhelpful to the competing teams to publicly debate the pros and cons of different scenarios. When a decision is announced we will be able to report back to rugby supporters in full.’
305 Comments
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11 May 2012, 09:13 am
Bussed.
11 May 2012, 09:13 am
Wouldn’t an amalgamation with the Bulls make sense? Logistically no problem. The question is would the Lions want that?
11 May 2012, 09:16 am
This whole Kings fiasco is just a perfect little microcosm of the current SA situation. Greedy politicians of the New Order jostle for position at the feeding trough, along with their superconnected business pals. And those who have long ago forsaken their morals rush to cling to their skirts, hoping for some of the juicy morsels to be flung their way. Sometimes this pays off, and a few people strike it lucky by backing the right horse. And sometimes people misjudge the political longevity of certain fatcats and find themselves backpedaling when said fatfuck is snatched away from the feeding trough and cast into the wilderness. Exciting times for the HSM/Keo lot. Could go any way.
11 May 2012, 09:17 am
Several red herrings amongst the posts here.
The Kings will struggle, but they won’t struggle simply because they are the Kings. The reality is that any 5th South African rugby franchise will struggle in a Super competition, as we don’t have the quality in depth of resources.
I don’t believe the Kings will be much worse than the Lions, if any. In fact, I expect many of the Lions players to actually feature for the Kings next year.
As long as the best 110 rugby players in the country play Super Rugby, I don’t care if Boland or the Griffons feature as a 5th franchise. But the reality is that we don’t have 110 players to compete at that level. We might have closer to 90.
The Super competition has become too big. We cannot field 5 franchises at that level.
11 May 2012, 09:17 am
I’ve always wanted there to be a relegation system. Its the only reason the cheetahs performed on there tour because they feared relegation and as soon as they saw how k a k the lions were doing there intensity droped.
Thats why for so long the derby’s were massive games because its the only games the cheetahs and lions cared about.
11 May 2012, 09:21 am
What would happen to all the Lions players in the lower rankings? If this squad gets retained for next years Vodacom Cup (Most of the players will still be contracted)then they will kill the comp next year, and where will the Lions yougsters (current vodacom cup team)get game time?
This is all a farce!!
11 May 2012, 09:21 am
@Bill Reyts(Gumboots)-52:
Your incessant trolling on this issue is getting tiresome.
11 May 2012, 09:22 am
@willievz(willievz)-54: So what will change for SA rugby overall? Yes – good news for the Kings and bad for the Lions. But if it means we pretty much have the top Lions players playing at a new stadium and under a new coach, what has changed?
11 May 2012, 09:23 am
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-48: There is nothing. The protection mechanism stem from the fact that SARU is an elected body made up of representatives from all the Unions, and that they all have a say in what happens.
As I posted at the beginning of the post, I disagree with it.
But I hardly think that relegating one of the worst performing professional sports franchises of any sport world-wide can be equated to the wholesale slaughter of minorities by oppressive dictatorships.
I get your point though.
11 May 2012, 09:25 am
@Bokhoring(Bokhoring)-58: Exactly.
The real issue is the existence of 5 franchises.
We simply don’t have the depth in quality to have a 5th.
11 May 2012, 09:25 am
This is great news, we’ll take Doppies!!!
Whats that? Oh
Never mind.
11 May 2012, 09:25 am
Wasnt the Kings created to develop and keep players in the EC? didnt they say the wanted to showcase the talent there?
So why are they going to import players if the get the chance next year? Isnt it defeating the whole point of theit excistance!!
11 May 2012, 09:29 am
@Chris4Lions(Chris4Lions)-62: All spin.
They know they will need to be competitive, considering the political albatross around the franchise’s neck.
How many black players currently play for EP province?
11 May 2012, 09:29 am
SANZAR’s broadcast agreements require that all 3 nations ensure that the best players of that country are fielded in the Super Rugby competition – and these have all have been contracted.
Reinforcing this is the new Springbok Coach Heyneke Mayer – not including a single player in elite player monitoring, for Springbok selection – from either Border, Eastern Province and SWD.
What does that tell you?
It tells you that not even SARU and their blue eyed boy Heyneke Meyer sees any potential in the Eastern Cape.
Then there is the letter the franchises gave SARU a coupe of months ago, that no one franchise should sit out of the 2013 Super Rugby competition at the expense of another.
The buck stops at the feet of SARU’s Hoskins, Mark Alexander, Jurie Roux, Andy Marinos and James Stoffberg and NOT the 6 South African franchises.
How on God’s Earth has it taken 8 years to resolve?
SANZAR and the SARU sponsors must wince each time this raises its head.
So SARU will have to dig deep and pay the franchise sitting out R20m – as these are the liabilities to season ticket holders, sponsors, suite holders and contracted players.
This is SARU’s mess and they must fix it or pay for it.
11 May 2012, 09:29 am
@Chris4Lions(Chris4Lions)-62: 200 000 players champing at the Super Rugby bit, apparently. Cheeky says he doesn’t have any of their email addresses.
11 May 2012, 09:31 am
As Pissant said so well a month or so ago, this is just a case of re-arranging the deck chairs.
That’s all, with different people feeding out of the trough as Katman said.
11 May 2012, 09:36 am
I personally would love this abortion called the S15 to be chucked in the rubbish bin, and a real super rugby competition re-instated with at most 12 teams in the final round, with an initial qualification round in each country
However the News Corps will never allow that to happen
11 May 2012, 09:36 am
@John Galt(John Galt)-57:
It is a valid point. Go to comfortdotcom if you have issues.
11 May 2012, 09:50 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-59:
The point is, the Big 5 are able to exert influence far great than their percentage of votes – if they act unanimously. Once they are split, then it merely becomes a one union one vote system – or however the vote allocation works.
11 May 2012, 09:52 am
@Chris4Lions(Chris4Lions)-62: i wouldn’t worry if i were you, SARU has a way of doing quick about-turns and jerk the South Eastern Cape around.
three more meetings to go? i promise you by the 13th Jew Lie cheeky will be crying tears like Tony Mckeever!
11 May 2012, 09:55 am
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-69: Classic prisoner’s dilemma this.
11 May 2012, 10:02 am
The biggest risk the Lions face is maintaining their player base. If the other 4 franchises want to support them they should loan these core players for the Super Season thus ensuring these players remain with the Lions and do not head off to the Kings. By the time the relegation matches surface the lions will still have their main player base and the Kings will still be rubbish and that will be the end of the Kings…
11 May 2012, 10:05 am
Good riddance. I am sick of these Lions. That Administration belongs nowhere near a professional rugby set up.
Good bye. Good luck… now f-off!
11 May 2012, 10:08 am
@willievz(willievz)-71:
In a way. But not quite. Because in the prisoners dillemma, an individual actually has a chance to profit MORE if he screws his partner – as long as the partner doesn’t know he’s going to screw him
In this case. all 5 Big Unions stood to gain, if they just stuck together. By ******** the Lions, the other 4 haven’t improved their own position, they just held the wolf at bay a bit longer.
11 May 2012, 10:10 am
Now we sit back & wait for those feeding from the trough to start claiming their “bonuses” for bringing Super rugby to the Eastern Cape.
CSA’s bonus scandal will pale by comparison…
11 May 2012, 10:13 am
@BrumbiesBoy(BrumbiesBoy)-75: bwahahahahaha
11 May 2012, 10:15 am
Sorry guys but Lions will not be out for 1 season… It will be 2… Go read the article again… The Kings are guaranteed 2 seasons…
11 May 2012, 10:21 am
@THE MAULER(THE MAULER)-77: what does this mean then? “Saru said a promotion-relegation play-off would then take place after the 2013 and 2014 campaigns.”
11 May 2012, 10:26 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-78:
It means SARU are hoping that after 2014 there will be no need for a relegation game and they can have a 6th side in Super Rugby… newsflash… there will not be a 6th team from any of the SANZAR sides… and rightly so…
11 May 2012, 10:34 am
@THE MAULER(THE MAULER)-77:
Fail at comprehension. It’s 1 guaranteed season.
11 May 2012, 10:36 am
Read it again Transie… Means after both those campaigns…
11 May 2012, 10:36 am
Why say after 2013 and 2014 why not say after each campaign?
11 May 2012, 10:36 am
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-74: At this stage the Kings is a partner, and a potential target to be screwed.
11 May 2012, 10:40 am
@SteveWarren(SteveWarren)-55: That’s a bit of a stupid statement to make. The Cheetahs lost 2 games back home (both in the dying seconds) against 2 of the top 5 teams. The only bad game since being back from the tour was against the Force, which they did win. (They ended up playing a typical Stormers/Sharks game)
Also remember that the Cheetahs won’t play this season against 2 teams that everyone else is bagging points with.
In other words, there was nothing wrong with the Cheetahs intensity against the Chiefs and Highlanders… except for the last few minutes, but that’s been a problem the whole season, even overseas.
11 May 2012, 10:40 am
@Staal(Staal)-9: Elton a turnstile?, talk about pre-conceived prejudice, why dont you go ask Johan Goosen, what’s he think about the turnstile, you so proclaim?
11 May 2012, 10:41 am
The EP Kings are not guaranteed a slot in 2013.
If they were guaranteed a slot, there would not be this debate and SARU would not have to put out a release.
This subject is still under debate and the mind boggles why SARU have not been able to come up with options in over 8 years, so whether it is the 17 May and 13 July a tournament structure needs to be put in place that will not disrupt rugby in SA.
Can anyone provide the names of any players from the Eastern Cape that Heyneke Meyer has tapped to test for potential Springbok selection?
11 May 2012, 10:41 am
@willievz(willievz)-83:
Partner my ***. They are the enemy personified. Bloody gravy train piggs ready to start feeding.
Someone on here recently called it Broad Bottomed Empowerment. My new favourite term.
11 May 2012, 10:42 am
@THE MAULER(THE MAULER)-82:
Lol!!!!!!!
11 May 2012, 10:45 am
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-74: I put it to you that it is very much in the interests of the other unions to have the Lions relegated.
Think of the players leaving the Lions that the other unions would love to get theor hands on. Take the Bulls for example, they’d love to get their hands on a backup flyhlaf perhaps, another no 5 lock and a fetcher like Minnie, Think of the Cheetahs. They could use Van Zyl, Taute, etc. And I’d be willing to bet that all the top Lions players would rather play for the other franchises than the Kings.
So the prisoner’s dilemma applies very well here I think.
11 May 2012, 10:46 am
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-87: Rugby is a business, and businesses need to be profitable.
The Kings will usurp all the fringe Super players from the Lions in next year’s competition, mark my words.
I’ll repeat a previous question in another post – how many black players currently play for EP?
11 May 2012, 10:48 am
@KWAGGA ROBERTSE(KWAGGA ROBERTSE)-31: Rocknrolla isn’t bad either.
11 May 2012, 10:50 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-89: Sorry spelling. Was on the phone.
Multitask fail.
11 May 2012, 10:53 am
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-89:
Those are short term gains – and in my view outweighted by the weakening of the overall clout of the Big 5 – as the Kings will now always side with the smaller unions against them out of principle – thus reducing them to the Big 4 against everyone else – as well as the uncertainty created by the Lions demise.
What if a Cats merger is insisted upon? Then the Cheetahs lose out.
What if a Bulls merger is insisted upon? Then the Bulls lose out.
The relegation of the Lions erodes the fundamental premise that the “Great Unions” had a de facto historal right to Super Rugby participation. Now that a 100 year old union like the Lions got the chop, what’s to stop the Bulls or Sharks going the same way if they have a bad season?
It was in their best interest to protect the status quo.
To me the Big 5 have a perpetual right to be there, based on history. And if they don’t perform, then they need to be assisted to rise to the top again. Not kicked out in exchange for some Broad Bottomed newcomers with an inborn sense of entitlement.
11 May 2012, 10:54 am
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-50: That is insulting, arrogant, ignorant and down right racists claptrap, you moron. The fact that the economy dictates that a guy from Zwide is not as well off as a white guy from Summerstrand, that doesn’t mean the white oke in burbs is more of a rugby person than the other guy, phucken idiot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
11 May 2012, 10:54 am
Outweighed. My typing has taken a serious nose dive in the last few months. Especially when my thoughts are two sentences ahead of where my fingers are.
11 May 2012, 10:56 am
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-94:
No, but it means the union will sell more merchandise to him, get more gate income from him, and attract more paying sponsors due to him, thus making him more worthwhile as a supporter from a financial perspective than the equivalent guy who got a free ticket.
11 May 2012, 10:59 am
This really shows how worthless a Currie Cup title is nowadays….
11 May 2012, 11:02 am
@ossewa(ossewa)-97:
Umm… world cup year???
11 May 2012, 11:05 am
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-93:
No union deserves anything.
The 5 franchises are not supposed to be 5 unions anyway. They are seperate legal entities.
And I don’t believe for a second that you wouldn’t have a chuckle at the Stormers missing out on a Super rugby place.
11 May 2012, 11:05 am
It will break my heart if the Lions get ‘relegated’/ shafted .. but it is not the end of the world.
The silver lining is that I can just enjoy watching rugby, and a real bonus is that because I’ll support every team playing against the kings I’ll have that winning feeling basically every weekend
)
You can bullsh*t all you like, the Lions are still one of the top 5 rugby unions in SA who are always in contention for the CC, and this gives them the right to play above the kings who are made up of 3 teams that dwindle in the B section of the CC.
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