Lions set for chop?
11 May 2012
Saru has confirmed its plan to relegate the last-placed South African franchise at the end of the season.
This proposed solution was made by Saru’s executive council at its special general meeting in January. The top four teams on the SA conference log would therefore join the Kings in 2013. As it stands, the Lions would drop out.
Saru said a promotion-relegation play-off would then take place after the 2013 and 2014 campaigns.
However, the franchises requested that a decision on the mechanism of qualification be postponed to allow them time to make alternative proposals. The officials at the general meeting accepted the request. Saru CEO Jurie Roux asked for it to be recorded that this delay was at the franchises’ request, therefore precluding the franchises from criticism of late decision-making.
A final decision will be made after meetings with the SA Super Rugby franchises on 17 May, the Saru executive committee on 24 May and the Saru general council on 13 July (21 rounds into the 2012 Super Rugby tournament).
‘Rugby has been consistently united in supporting the Kings’ place in Super Rugby in 2013,’ said Roux. ‘Our focus has been on finding a rugby answer to the questions that flow from that that’s fair, transparent in its mechanism and will strengthen South African rugby in the long run. Those discussions continue.
‘Until a final decision is reached, the franchises and the Saru presidency are agreed that it would be unhelpful to the competing teams to publicly debate the pros and cons of different scenarios. When a decision is announced we will be able to report back to rugby supporters in full.’
305 Comments
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11 May 2012, 16:02 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-190: Kgalagadi DustDevils!!!!, LOL!!, at least you still haven’t lost your sense of humour.
11 May 2012, 16:08 pm
Transformation if you are not Vrede,are you one of the Watsons or are you actually Alan Solomons?????
I still think you are Vrede,you are here all the time,especially on his treads,and you also pronounce it as Jew Lie.
11 May 2012, 16:11 pm
Dear All
I didn’t come here to have you guys change your entrenched view nor did I expect you to agree and say I’m right. The point of today’s exercise was to arm you with information, so that the next time you are at a braai and your mate is going bananas about the Kings inclusion, you would agree with him, ( you don’t want to embarrass your buddy), but your sub-conscience knows the truth and it will chow you that you know the truth, that was there point. Its a mind thing.
Now, let me check me my bank account, I hope Cheeky has deposited my cheque.
11 May 2012, 16:16 pm
Thanks for going.
11 May 2012, 16:18 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-189:
Honest question:
Are you Ryan Vrede?
11 May 2012, 16:23 pm
@zoo cleaner(zoo cleaner)-178:
Zoo boy
Go and look and your stats for past 10 years!!!
The Lions is by far on all aspects: That would be Games Lost, Points Conceded, Crowd attendance, Tries against, Tries for, Points scored, Games won etc….. Last on the stats… now clever one!!!! please explain to why you deserve to play super rugby They have almost conceded 2000 unanswered point in the past decade!!!! Surely one of the criteria for playing super rugby is that you can not be **** forever!!!!!
The Kings with a super franchise budget will never be that ****..Even the useless Rebels have overtaken you in their second season… Wake the f… up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
11 May 2012, 16:26 pm
@mad eye(mad eye)-201: why are you so interested in who i am? just keep posting you mal thoughts and quit worrying about me
11 May 2012, 16:30 pm
@willievz(willievz)-204: no! hahahaha
11 May 2012, 16:30 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-202:
You do realise you are now talking in the past tense, the K…. are included the Lions are out, so as a Lions fan I do not need to Justify anything it will be Keo and his band of brothers who will have to justify why the Kings should stay ….isn’t life grand and the wheel turns.
11 May 2012, 16:31 pm
Transformation you are in the words of the prophet Julius,a bloody agent.
You have an inside track here and a very suspect agenda.
Come out in the open,come out of the closet,it is 2012.
11 May 2012, 16:34 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-207:
Oooo now you’re in for it.
11 May 2012, 16:36 pm
EKS N MOERSE GROOT WP FAN ,VOEL MA HARTSEER VI DI LIONS ,CURRIE CUP CHAMPS
WOW EN NOU MOET HULLE UIT DIE SP15 ,AS GEVOLG VAN POLITIEK OF HOE DAN NOU
,MA WAT LEKKE IS VAN DIE KAK KINGS IS AL DIE SPANNE VOLGENDE JAAR GAAN 5
POINTERS KRY ,AL PUNTE WAT HULLE GAAN KRY IS VI HULLE BYE,EN WA GAAN HULLE
SPELERS KRY WAT VIR HULLE WIL SPEEL ,LIONS OUENS NOOIT,MEESTE LIONS OUENS
SAL,WP,BULLS,SHARKS ,CHEETAHS TOE GAAN OF OORSEE,SAL SEKE CHICKY WATSON EN
AROGANTE LAAITIE WEES ,HULLE KAN NIE EENS DIE PUMAS WEN NIE WOW LMGA ,SIES
SA RUGBY LIONS BESTAAN AL JARE EN NOU MOET HULLE UIT ,WYS JOU NET DIS N
POLITIEKE KWESIE AND F…. OFF ZOO BOY .GO LIONS
11 May 2012, 16:37 pm
@Dawn(Dawn)-210:
kaan jy imagine, me being ryan vrede…
funniest thing i’ve heard all day!
11 May 2012, 16:40 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-212:
Indeed!
11 May 2012, 16:41 pm
@mad eye(mad eye)-209: what is YOUR agenda if you reckon mine is “suspect”?
11 May 2012, 16:45 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-198:
So you quote 1 game to prove your point?
Ey, I just dont know anymore.
To even think about comparing the quality of the Force and the Rebels to that of what the Kings will no doubt dish up just shows everyone here how illogical you become when talking about the Kings.
11 May 2012, 16:56 pm
@John Galt(John Galt)-215: how many concessions did the ARU make to get the Rebels to be “competitive”? they were allowed an indiscrminate number of internationals for one. the point is, if none of those concessions were made the rebels would be even worse but john o’neill – being the business man that he is – actually wanted to develop the game, revenue base in australia instead of ENTRENCHING non-performing franchises who reckon themselves as the “big boys”
now please answer my initial question
11 May 2012, 17:02 pm
@John Galt(John Galt)-215:
The first thing the Force did was to recruit top players from the other Franchises, whilst the Rebels were also allowed to sign marquee international players. The ARU realised that you can’t create a new Franchise team from scratch without allowing them to sign top players from the existing franchises.
11 May 2012, 17:09 pm
@COBRA(COBRA)-211:
Hierdie is n engelse blog……. Probeer….. dit is nie so moeilik nie? Jou maatjies in Aus en NZ weet nie wat Jy se nie.
You probably don’t understand, but the Kings as they will be playing super rugby has not played a game yet. We can only judge them next season. Border, SWD and EP will make up the Kings + the 15 odd players that will be recruited because of the new budget. Just like the Force and the Rebels. They will never be as horrible as the LIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
11 May 2012, 17:10 pm
@David(David)-217: most unions wont just release contracted players, this is a again a problem that solutions for should have been sought a few years agfo , and then also the buying of new players to gel them into a unit
I can speak for others but for me the problem is not if or not the KIngs should be in Super rugby,
the question is why is there not proper planner etc
David surely it could have been posible to extend the teams in the CC and bring the kings in as a unit so they could get used to the stronger rugby setup etc
Even some of the present players in the Kings team are really glood players, just they used to playing lower strengths and it shows in their play, they should form the basis of this team no matter if he is from SWD, PE , Border etc and play them as a unit in the CC, atleast there they could grow.
Instead they have become weaker as we have seen the past few weekends
11 May 2012, 17:14 pm
@Getafix(phil72)-218: Sorry but you yourself assume they will be OK or Good enough,
Surely the best way forward is as SARU have now said re the play off matches
And if the Kings lose then hell man they shoul wake up and prepare, SARU should assist and hell yes even the GOvt can give a hand,
But atleast dont put an even weaker team to get slaughtered even worse then the Lions already are
There are ways, I have in my own stupid way presented one solution, but there are surely many more
11 May 2012, 17:24 pm
@sharks_lover(sharks_lover)-219:
As the current S15 franchise contracts expire at the end of the year it’ll be interesting to see how the unions handle the renewal of Franchise contracts.
I agree with your sentiments. Unfortunately, it’s now too late to undo the SARU cockups. The EC, Border and SWD also bear a lot of responsibilty for the situation, so apportioning blame is pointless at this point IMO.
All Im doing is to try and cut through a lot of the emotional arguments against the inclusion of an EC franchise.
You’re spot on about the existing contracts, although some will say it’s never stopped the Sharks.
11 May 2012, 17:27 pm
@David(David)-221: ala JF that was still with the Lions??
Na boet everyday you okes tell us about how its only the Sharks that buy?? ya well no fine
11 May 2012, 17:36 pm
@sharks_lover(sharks_lover)-220:
Not even going to try and explain the process again…. Obviously you not capable of understanding that the Kings will only be a force when they have the budget…..Just like the Lions will not be a force without the budget… VERSTAAN? (ok LIONS not a force with the budget…)
11 May 2012, 17:39 pm
Nobody will ever be as RUBBISH as the LIONS in Super Rugby again!!!!!!!!!!!!!
11 May 2012, 17:42 pm
Lions best Placing on the log for past 11 Years is 3RD LAST!!!!!!!!!!!! The have basically monopolized the last place position!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Get on with it!!!!!!!!!!!! Not capable of playing SUPER RUGBY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They have to leave!!!!!! Whatever replaces them, can not be as bad!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is not possible!!!!!!!!!!!!!
11 May 2012, 17:43 pm
@sharks_lover(sharks_lover)-222:
C’mon, in a previous post I used the Bulls as the example of buying instead of building.
11 May 2012, 17:46 pm
@Getafix(phil72)-223: oh NOw i dont understand?? they have the budget ffs, they have said so, if you had half a brain you would have understood what i said. the problem is not even about money, ITS ABOUT LACK OF PLANNING EVEN WITH ITS PRESENT GROUP OF PLAYERS
That is not only from the unions point of view, but mostly SARU, now i cant help the fact that you cant read or understand,
11 May 2012, 17:47 pm
@David(David)-226:
David , yes you used the Sharks and the Bulls, but never your beloved Stormers 
anyhows no biggy mate
11 May 2012, 17:49 pm
@sharks_lover(sharks_lover)-227:
If you don’t understand? No point arguing!!!!!!!!!!!!!
11 May 2012, 17:53 pm
Keep supporting loosing teams with ZERO Hope…. At least SARU has finally realized(took them long enough) that there is no hope for the LIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
11 May 2012, 17:55 pm
@sharks_lover(sharks_lover)-227:
Do you honestly not get it that SUPER RUGBY inclusion will more than double their budget?
11 May 2012, 17:56 pm
To many DUMMIES tonight, will go and enjoy my braai!
11 May 2012, 18:17 pm
Getafix.
Get a fix!
11 May 2012, 20:28 pm
half wits on this site. As far as the eye can see.
Hardly a shred of an idea except that what die groot baas SARFU and the local media tells you. There is not a single justifiable reason to take rugby away from the most densly populated cosmopolitan area of SA.
Whether the Lions are currentlky Kak or the impoverished; corrupt dominance of the backwater ANC dominated Eastern cape needs investing in is irelevant. SA needs 6 teams due to it’s relative population size and volume of subscription payers and spectators. Allowing Sanzar to efuse this is a joke,
In the 1st place, the early date of the kIngs inclusion was a result of aggressive political despotisim by the ANC and other conected gravey trainers. To start with, The kings inclussion should only have been set at the date of the end of this current contractual format. They are in NO shape to compete next year or the next.
All most seem to do is consider the 2 options of relegation/CATs combination offered by the BIG BOYS AT sarfu AND THE BIG HITTERS IN THE anc. Pushing for the logical 6 SA sides is beyond the Charlies flying off to SANZAR meetings now and again to chew the cudd with the SANZAR guardians of Ahzie self interest.
Those options presented are by no means the way to solve the Eastern Cape problem, and to join in this narrow stupidity is an embarrasment to SA rugby. SARFU’ you have made yet another far reaching balls-up.
Let’s all watch the inevitable self destruction shall we?
11 May 2012, 20:34 pm
The best rugby decision of the Decade………..Cull the self destructing, woeful, hopeless, rubbish, pathetic, LIONS!!!!!!!!! CLAP CLAP CLAP………
11 May 2012, 20:37 pm
Lets hope no other team will ever dominate the last spot on the log like the LIONS HAD………………..
11 May 2012, 22:16 pm
Meerkatte
‘The best rugby decision of the decade’?????
See my above post. Are you stupid? The capacity and need for growth requires another team, but the NZ/AUS unions will not lose that extra proportion of the profits that are paid for by the SA Rugby public. Sarfu is culling one of it’s own to accomodate their bosses at SANZAR.
How is a concesion like that a good rugby decision?
11 May 2012, 22:24 pm
@hensopper1(hensopper1)-237:
Anybody supporting the Lions causes to continue on this road of complete embarrassment, purely because they are based in Gauteng and not withstanding the fact that they are incapable of playing super rugby in my mind and most other individuals with at least half a brain is a complete idiot. Lets get back to the fact that in the past 11 years they average last place on the log, 2000 unanswered points, most games lost, worst crowd support, longest loosing streak and yes…. Incredibly the have managed this for 11 years running. How stupid can 1 person be?
11 May 2012, 22:25 pm
@hensopper1(hensopper1)-237: the lions were supposed to be culled eons ago, they were in the comp illegally anyway!
11 May 2012, 22:26 pm
@hensopper1(hensopper1)-237:
Yes.. The benchmark of pathetic has been set!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It is a joyous relief that they are out of their misery……
11 May 2012, 22:34 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-239: Oh how much joy will I get when the Kings get smashed week in and week out
They, who sold their spoils, to the Sharks and now want to get into Super Rugby
Cheeky will gain and Luke will increase his 3million rand per year contract
Thank you
11 May 2012, 22:40 pm
Worst crowd support? Quorte your numbers in terms of Average crowd support/pay TV customers in the region compared to all other franchises, not just South African ones.
Transformation. Illegaly how?
Unfortunately the realities of what transformation means escapes you. The largest most vital urban centre of Black South Africa,Soweto no longer has a Super rugby team. Explain how this serves to be a good thing? SARFU have failed and continue to do so as far as growing the game goes.
11 May 2012, 22:43 pm
@hensopper1(hensopper1)-242:
The Lion hold the record for the lowest number of tickets sold for 1 game it was in 2010 and sold just under 3700 tickets….. I know in your eyes that is quite good, but anyone else would think it is quite pathetic!
11 May 2012, 22:47 pm
@Meerkatte(phil72)-243: Watch and learn how the Kings do something similar
11 May 2012, 22:47 pm
@JL1(JL1)-241: i see you’re happy perpetuating tacitus’ R3 million propaganda…
you weren’t b(itching when the lions we getting flogged week in week out, when the likes of manie reyneke were stuffing their faces full with union money.
the lions are based in joburg but were struggling to get sponsorships – Auto & General Lions, Xerox Lions – until gumede came through and organised them the MTN deal,i’m sure MTN has an exit clause in their contract & will make use of it if lions get the snip.
11 May 2012, 22:47 pm
@hensopper1(hensopper1)-242:
Also not really about skin color. SARU has also not sacked them as a franchise…. the decision was made that the team last on the SA conference will be booted…. But we all know it will be the LIONS!!!!!!!!!!!! They can still try and proof that they belong by winning a few games and not finish last!!!!!!!!
11 May 2012, 22:49 pm
@JL1(JL1)-244:
We will watch… and if we ever steep to those levels, will be the first to admit that we don’t deserve to be there………….
11 May 2012, 22:59 pm
@hensopper1(hensopper1)-242: soweto has produced how many rugby players that you know?
how do mamelodi, attridgeville, soshanguve, mabopane youngsters currently benefit from the bulls franchise? all talk and no substance!
yes, judge dennis davis said the spears had a legal right to play super rugby,after that judgement oregan hoskins, adam haddad, sid loubscher embarked on one of the biggest acts of corruption in sa rugby history!
just to entrench the lions, 6 years later the lions are still kak!
11 May 2012, 23:07 pm
just flicked thru posts didn’t see this… from rugby365
The Souther Kings will play in the 2013 Super Rugby tournament. That is a fact! However, they have no guarantee of participation in this SANZAR showpiece beyond next year.
This became clear in a ‘briefing document’ released by the South African Rugby Union.
It is almost certain that the Lions will be the team to be axed from the South African conference at the conclusion of 2012 – unless there is a dramatic change in fortunes in the final eight weeks of the season.
SARU also confirmed that the ‘top four’ teams in the SA conference will join the Kings in 2013.
That means the last-placed Lions – currently 12 points behind the Cheetahs (fourth) on the SA conference standings – is the team to be dropped.
However, the SANZAR document also make it clear that there will be promotion/relegation for the SA teams at the end of the 2013 and 2014 seasons.
“Rugby has been consistently united in supporting the Kings’ place in Super Rugby in 2013,” SARU CEO Jurie Roux said.
“Our focus has been on finding a rugby answer to the questions that flow from that decision that’s fair, transparent in its mechanism and will strengthen South African rugby in the long run. Those discussions continue.
“Until a final decision is reached, the franchises and the SARU presidency are agreed that it would be unhelpful to the competing teams to publicly debate the pros and cons of different scenarios.
“When a decision is announced we will be able to report back to rugby supporters in full.”
It was also revealed that next Thursday, May 17, franchise representatives and members of SARU executive committee will meet in Johannesburg for further discussions.
However, this is not a decision-making body and can only make recommendations to the Exco.
SARU’s briefing document:
Decision-making authority
* The identity of the South African teams participating in the Super Rugby competition is governed by the constitution of the South African Rugby Union (SARU).
* Clause 9.2.5 specifies that the General Meeting is responsible for the “approval of the format, structure and composition of SARU’s Major Competition, currently known as the Absa Currie Cup or its successor, as well as determining the SA teams to participate in Super Rugby competitions.”
* The voting membership of the General Meeting is made up of two representatives of the 14 provinces – each of whom has one vote (28) – and the chairman of the meeting (who is the President of the South African Rugby Union or his deputy) making a total of 29 votes.
* A simple majority is required to pass motions in relation to this clause.
* The next scheduled General Meeting of SARU is Friday, July 13 in Cape Town.
Events in 2012
January 27: A Special General Meeting was held to consider Super Rugby participation (among other things).
* The SARU Executive Council (Exco) proposed that the top four teams in the South African conference at the end of the 2012 competition join the Southern Kings as the South African representatives in the 2013 competition.
* It was also proposed that the last-placed team in the South African Conference would play a promotion/relegation match against the non-Super Rugby franchise at the conclusion of the 2013 and 2014 competitions.
* The meeting reaffirmed the Kings’ participation in the 2013 tournament.
* The franchises requested that a decision on the mechanism of qualification was postponed to allow them time to make alternative proposals.
* The General Meeting accepted the request. Jurie Roux, SARU CEO, asked for it to be recorded that the delay in a decision was at the franchises’ request, therefore precluding them (unions) from criticism of delays in any decisions.
February 23: Franchise representatives and members of the Exco met for a second time to discuss the way forward.
* It was decided that franchises representatives would accompany SARU’s SANZAR delegates (Roux and deputy president Mark Alexander) to meet SANZAR partners with proposals to encompass the inclusion of a sixth South African franchise. The group was scheduled to depart on March 17.
March 14: A final preparation meeting was held between franchise representatives and SARU’s SANZAR delegates.
* The meeting requested SARU to write to Australia and New Zealand requesting a postponement in the visit in order to prepare additional expansion options.
* No date has been rescheduled.
Next Steps
May 17: Franchise representatives and members of Exco will meet in Johannesburg for further discussions. This is not a decision-making body and can only make recommendations to the Exco.
May 24: Next scheduled meeting of the SARU Exco.
July 13: Next scheduled meeting of the SARU General Council.
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