Lions want relegation play-offs
15 May 2012
Lions president Kevin de Klerk says Saru’s proposal of automatic relegation isn’t the fairest way to accommodate the Kings next season.
Saru dropped a bomb on Friday when it confirmed its plan for the last-placed team on the SA conference log to make way for the Kings in 2013. As it stands, the Lions will fall out.
However, this decision is not final. The South African franchises asked for time to discuss an alternative way forward, and they will get their opportunity to negotiate a different solution at a meeting with Saru this Thursday. A final decision will then be made following further meetings with the Saru executive committee on 24 May and the Saru general council on 13 July.
So what is expected to happen at Thursday’s gathering? With the Lions in the hot seat, De Klerk hopes a fair decision can be made.
‘I’m expecting the right outcome,’ De Klerk told keo.co.za. ‘We were one of the unions that voted for the Kings to play Super Rugby, but a solution on how they would be accommodated was never made. We were expecting a “Super 16″ next year. It was never agreed that one of the current franchises would have to fall out of Super Rugby.
‘I think the ideal solution would be having promotion-relegation play-offs. Automatic relegation would have drastic consequences for the relegated franchise [in terms of financial and player loss].’
De Klerk also expressed his disappointment in the delay of a final decision being made, but added that he understood Saru’s difficult position.
‘With all our injuries this season, the fact that we don’t know what’s going to happen does create a lot of pressure. But Saru is also stuck between a rock and a hard place. It made promises to Eastern Province long before I was president of the Lions. I just hope a fair decision can be made.’
Last week, John Mitchell told this site that an amalgamation between the Lions and Cheetahs would be a suitable solution. He believed this would create a team with enough quality depth to challenge for the Super Rugby title. However, De Klerk said the Lions were not backing this initiative.
‘John said that in a personal capacity,’ said De Klerk. ‘I’m not saying a merger is a possible solution, and I’m not saying it isn’t one either. But it’s not a plan that the Lions are considering at the moment.’
By Gareth Duncan
141 Comments
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15 May 2012, 07:25 am
hahaha
imagine if the lions lose
they should play a best of three.
15 May 2012, 07:30 am
I don’t have a problem with a relegation play-off match.
I have a problem with how the other participant in said match is selected. Especially if the other participant can’t win the Vodacom Cup, let alone the Currie Cup B division.
15 May 2012, 07:34 am
Look, is says it right there…
‘We were one of the unions that voted for the Kings to play Super Rugby, but a solution on how they would be accommodated was never made…
See, in Kevin’s own words, we are going to court!
15 May 2012, 07:34 am
Kevin, I am one of the greatest Lion’s supporters you will ever encounter. But… we have had how many seasons to get this right?
Sorry, but, we are farting against thunder whilst constipated.
15 May 2012, 07:40 am
Also if they were to merge with the Cheetahs, they should be based in Bloem.
15 May 2012, 07:52 am
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-2: Hear, hear.
@RedCard(RedCard)-5: Why?
15 May 2012, 07:57 am
It would be sad that a union with the history of the Lions are not allowed to take part in Super Rugby but we brought this mostly on ourselves
15 May 2012, 07:58 am
you’ve gotta feel bad for the mulberry bush…
15 May 2012, 07:59 am
Bye Bye Lions – time for a new franchise in JHB run by new management , new stadium , new spirit – time for change it is disgraceful that this team represents jhb
15 May 2012, 08:04 am
@walter van transvaal.co.za(walter)-7:
Nee man Walter, don’t fall for the propoganda. There is zero benefit in replacing the Lions with the Kings at this stage. Don’t fall for the brainwashing, don’t be the frog in the pot, keep on fighting…this is far from over.
15 May 2012, 08:07 am
@stew(stew)-9:
yip and call them the Kings
15 May 2012, 08:07 am
The Lazy Lions have done nothing to deserve a play-off. The Queens have done nothing to deserve automatic relegation. Both teams should be playing in the Vodacom Cup next year.
That IS fair.
15 May 2012, 08:26 am
@RedCard(RedCard)-5:
true.
@walter van transvaal.co.za(walter)-7:
true.
15 May 2012, 08:36 am
I say just relegate those lazy Lions. They have embarrassed me for too long!
Give the Kings a chance, they want to play superrugby unlike the Leeusers.
As for those broederbond pricks who farked up my team … Fark all of you. Burn in hell and get the hell out of my team.
15 May 2012, 08:37 am
Kings will never accept this. Their argument is that they need to contract players good enough to play SR and that can only happen with a guarantee. They are negotiating with top players at present who will only consider their offers if a S15 place is guaranteed. Kings will never be able to win a promorelegation game without getting the players they need and having had time in S15 to build their systems. Kevin knows this and should be smart enough to appreciate this and work on other solutions. I hope this is not the only plan the Lions have because then I can tell them now it will get the Lions nowhere.
15 May 2012, 08:38 am
They can form the Cats and rotate home venues. One year be based in Bloem with 6 games in Free State and 2 in Joburg. Next year vice versa.
15 May 2012, 08:39 am
Bring on the Wildcats!!!
15 May 2012, 08:40 am
Kat is 100% correct. The whole Kings premise is based on them not being a CC fed team, with the majority of players being other experienced players from heavensknowswhere. So without the guaranteed inclusion they won’t get sponsorship and will not be able to field a team that will beat the Lions (as badly as they are playing).
Kevin knows this, duh.
15 May 2012, 08:40 am
Kevin, please! We have to look this thing in the eye and come with realistic solutions considering realities (and not what we hope for).
15 May 2012, 08:44 am
@Slartibartfast(Slartibartfast)-10:
What propaganda would that be? As it stands the Kings are in and we are out…or am I missing something?
15 May 2012, 08:44 am
THE KINGS ARE IN WHETHER WE LIKE IT OR NOT! They have legal and political backing. Stop mucking around GLRU. Stop trying to get this not to happen. Do what is required. There are options but you will have to be willing to open up to them. Put the pride and emotion aside and get cool headed about this.
15 May 2012, 08:45 am
@Kat(Katsesnor)-15:
Ahh but you see the problem for any future promotion/relagation matches? This is a f-up of note all nicely tied with a bow care of saru!
15 May 2012, 08:48 am
@Sasuke(Sasuke)-16:
Nope, can’t work as you will never build a solid supporter base doing that.
@walter van transvaal.co.za(walter)-20:
Well keo and his sidekicks have been telling us for months now that is the case, so it must be true? Nah Walter, still a long time before this is settled but the spin merchants would like you to think otherwise. Telling you, don’t give up just yet.
15 May 2012, 08:51 am
I get very despondent when I hear all this fighting talk from the Lions corner. If we’re going to fight the Kings’ inclusion the Lions will kill itself in every way that matters. Let go, and let’s move on. Please!
15 May 2012, 08:59 am
@Kat(Katsesnor)-21: the only option is to accept automatic relegation. Everyone at that union must go, resign without golden handshakes. Then from the ruins rebuild towards superrugby in 2016.
15 May 2012, 08:59 am
Lions cannot say they did not get a fair chance to prevent this from happening. This Spears/Kings thing have been coming for ages and in that time the Lions made zero progress in SR. Yes, there are a lot of things not right with Kings getting automatic inclusion through political shenanigans, but what is is what is now. Let’s win friends and influence people now Kevin.
15 May 2012, 09:03 am
To stand in the middle of the road and scream and make fists at a fast approaching truck is brave, but stupid. Rather let the truck go past and then chase and overtake it with a bigger faster one.
15 May 2012, 09:06 am
@RL(RL)-14:
@RL(RL)-25:
now that…. is how to rebuild a phoenix.
i like it.
15 May 2012, 09:15 am
De Klerk should really seriously start to consider a merger with the Cheetahs!!!! It could be very beneficial for the franchise… IF SARU splits the income 6 ways…They wont lose out financially; theyll keep players; stay competitive in the currie cup etc etc.
Why not just have a backup plan????? If they get relegated, then what?????? Just feel sorry for themselves? They are in this mess thanks to past bad administration, weak and shortsighted leadership!!!
If this wally isnt going to plan ahead he wont be much better than the previous clowns who ran the show.
Stop complaining about what is fair. Expect the worst and let your franchise know that you plan to have some control over the situation. At this point he sound pathetic !
15 May 2012, 09:17 am
What’s that saying again?
Oh yes… re-arranging deck chairs.
15 May 2012, 09:19 am
@Jeez(Jeez)-29:
its talk like that which makes it all a prime example of why they should be relegated.
classic head in the sand stuff.
15 May 2012, 09:19 am
And for heavens sake if they merge, why not just stay away form any ‘Cat’ in the name…. Why not start with something totally new!!!!!!!!??? A fresh start would make fans a bit more optimistic!!!
15 May 2012, 09:22 am
The Cats will be back at the end of all this.
Anybody want to bet against me??
15 May 2012, 09:26 am
Perhaps de Klerk is hoping SARU will have the 5 franchises play-off for the 4 positions, it would be unfair to expect the Kings to play-off before they get their team in place. Personally, I think the Lions are going to be stuck out in the cold by the other franchises,,, I say give the Kings a go,, they cannot be worse than the current rubbish
15 May 2012, 09:26 am
@Jeez(Jeez)-32:
northern phoenix?
15 May 2012, 09:27 am
Can anyone explain to my why De Klerk voted for the Kings’ inclusion, knowing it would come to this?
Why did EVERYONE vote in favour of the Kings? Something funny went on in that meeting.
15 May 2012, 09:28 am
@Jeez(Jeez)-32: Fck that. I’ve registered my name and icon here as a trademark.
15 May 2012, 09:29 am
the @zoo cleaner(zoo cleaner)-33:
Or the Rhinos ; the Ostriches; the (game) Rangers; the Vlakvarke; The Dunes; The roses (Rose stad) The Honey badgers; The Fish eagles
15 May 2012, 09:29 am
@RL(RL)-14: manie reyneke won’t like that comment!
15 May 2012, 09:30 am
@>^..^< katman(katman)-36:
Have you ever signed an employment contract in which there were clauses which forced you to become a member of a specific medical aid, or some provident fund, restrained of trade etc?
15 May 2012, 09:31 am
@>^..^< katman(katman)-36:
Cheeky probably held them all at gun point with Luke puking in the corner…
15 May 2012, 09:34 am
@houston, we have a problem…(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-35:
Not the best name as a plural… Northern Phoenixes??
15 May 2012, 09:36 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-40: This is hardly the same as being coerced into joining Discovery. What threat could SARU hold over the unions for opposing the Kings move?
15 May 2012, 09:37 am
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-2: Thats a load of **** , first off we all know the Super rugby team will differ from the current team , secondly the Stormers played Super rugby for many years now , we contested a final , semi and even hosted one or two if I remember correctly , check how many Vodacom Cup titles we have or CC the last 10 years.
Why dont you guys see that the teams will not be the same ? How is that so difficult to understand ? And lastly not too long ago your team lost every single match in the comp , they came dead last for something like 2-3 seasons (yes the bulls not the lions) and yet look where they are today ! Howcome they were afforded the luxury of automated participation back then ? They could have made way for EP who if you guys remember actually played Super rugby in 1998/99 (not sure which year) when WP dropped out.
I bet if Griquas was the team as oppose to the Kings then a lot more people would be okay with it ! So Sad !
15 May 2012, 09:38 am
@Jeez(Jeez)-32: The rhinos !
15 May 2012, 09:40 am
@>^..^< katman(katman)-43:
Just as your employer has some arrangement with Discovery or some investment company SARU has an agreement with the Kings or the Eastern Cape or more importantly, the government.
SA Rugby has committed itself to get the region into Super Rugby (in return they got backing from government to bid for the RWC).
It is not a vote of ‘do we want them in’ it was a vote of ‘they are in so let’s find a way to accommodate them’.
The unions, as members of SARU, has no say in this – it is an executive decision to have the Kings as part of Super Rugby. Now its about finding the mechanism to include them.
15 May 2012, 09:43 am
@Great White Shark(Predawn)-12: No that is not fair , after years of not deserving it suddenly no team should play in the super comp ? The kings at least deserve that chance to prove they can play with the bug boys.
Howcome now all of a sudden does no-one deserve to play at super rugby level ? Why not the last 10 or so odd years when the lions came last or second last ?
You guys remind of the days when we were younger and played cricket , there was this laaitie that when he was out he would go home with his bat and ball so no-one else can play. That’s how childish this is !
15 May 2012, 09:47 am
@>^..^< katman(katman)-37: brian van zyl said they were put under pressure by stakeholders, sponsors etc.
15 May 2012, 09:49 am
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-46: If that were the case, there wouldn’t be the need for any kind of vote. Yet there was this yes/no referendum in which all the participants willingly voted yes. I’m convinced there was more at play than simply rubberstamping a government decision.
15 May 2012, 09:55 am
@sparticus(sparticus)-47:
This has nothing to do with fairness – I said this before, today its the Lions in the firing line, tomorrow its your team you support.
What if all this came around in 2001, 2002? Can you imagine how the Bulls fans would bleat?
A rugby solution needs to be found – this promotion/relegation rubbish is not a rugby solution. Substituting the Lions for the Kings in a whim who will also only win 25% of their games (if we consider franchises like the Force and Rebels) on average is also not a solution.
The Kings deserve a place in Super Rugby, they deserve a level playing field in South African rugby but where is the planning? Where is due diligence on the impact on all unions in SA Rugby if any one solution or mechanism is implemented?
SA Rugby has been sitting with this for a decade, 10 years to plan and implement, and now they look for a quick-fix solution over a course of three meetings from now until June.
People making arguments for or against the Kings, Lions, Cheetahs or any franchise is barking up the wrong tree here.
That is treating the symptoms. Nothing more.
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