Bookies back Cats merger
18 May 2012
You can bet on the Cheetahs and Lions playing as the Cats next year.
Voltbet.com is offering odds of 1-1 on this happening, with 5-2 odds of the five existing SA franchises playing again next year (ie, no Kings), 5-1 odds of all six SA teams getting in, and 6-1 odds on the Kings coming in for the bottom-placed Lions. Less likely, according to the bookies, is that the Kings merge with another team (10-1) and a team other than the Lions makes way for the Kings (50-1).
A recent article on keo.co.za said a return to the Cats would be the best way for Saru to accommodate the Kings next year as both Johannesburg and Bloemfontein would continue to have Super Rugby (four home league matches each).
Saru met with the five existing SA franchises on Thursday, but were again unable to come up with a solution. They will meet again on Monday, with a final decision being made at a general council meeting on 13 July.
Saru CEO Jurie Roux said that ‘everyone agreed that we must secure a solution that does not damage the existing franchises’, which suggests no team will be relegated.
Saru would not confirm that the Kings were still guaranteed their place in the 2013 Super Rugby tournament, which had been given to them after all 14 unions voted in favour of their inclusion at a special general meeting on 27 January.
94 Comments
18 May 2012, 10:08 am
Oh Simon, simple Simon. Why are you spinning big time here mate.
It ain’t gonna happen. Get it. Cheeky’s Kings are due a rogering of note!
18 May 2012, 10:16 am
@RL(RL)-1: So what are you putting your money on?
18 May 2012, 10:20 am
I don’t believe this is a solution. The logistics of such a merger is
impractical. In my opinion ther should be a promotion relegation play-off
between the bottom side and the Kings, home and away. Only fair solution to
all. The Lions are bad, but the Kings didn’t even make it to the final of
the Vodacom cup, despite being able to call on their best possible side.
18 May 2012, 10:26 am
The Lions have to merge, else it’s tickets for them.
But what will the Cheetahs have to say about this? A merge sure as hell won’t benifit them.
18 May 2012, 10:27 am
@Beast(Beast)-3: The Kings don’t have a Super Rugby franchise and therefore can’t retain/attract players. The team that ends up playing Super Rugby will look very different to the current Vodacom Cup team.
18 May 2012, 10:28 am
@Beast(Beast)-3:
That’s a bit unfair. The Kings can’t get the players they want without being given the buying power that a Super Rugby team gets.
It’s a catch 22.
18 May 2012, 10:29 am
I’m afraid those odds just reflect Joffe’s state of denial that the LIons could be relegated. The Kings are in, that’s the only thing that is certain amongst all the uncertainty.
5/2 – Same five as 2012?? Mug’s bet.
18 May 2012, 10:35 am
@CenturionShark (aka LondonShark)(londonshark)-6: @Simon(Simon)-5: Guys, don’t get me wrong. I love to back the underdog, but the reality is that the Kings will mainly draw on Lions discards in their first season. They did not attract any real tallent in the past 3 years and it is doubtful that they will in future if they have a poor start to Super Rugby. I simply don’t belief that we have enough quality players to sustain 5 or 6 franchises. We barely have enough to sustain 3 or 4.
18 May 2012, 10:59 am
@Simon(Simon)-2: I’ve learnt my lesson. I do not gamble.
18 May 2012, 11:00 am
@Beast(Beast)-8: With what money should the Kings have attracted these players you are referring to and more importantly would these players go and play in the Vodacom Cup team or prefer overseas, Super Rugby side.
Guys you need to engage your brains before spewing forth your ignorance
18 May 2012, 11:07 am
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-10: with Guma’s money.
18 May 2012, 11:16 am
@RL(RL)-11: Once the Lions are out of Super Rugby and no revenue coming in, they are gonna wish they had licked the Niggaz balls, the end is here.
18 May 2012, 11:20 am
I hope there will be a merger. The Cheetahs wont mind bulking up on their depth. Adding the best 10 Lions players will surely help them to become a formidable team… The rest of the mediocre Lions players wont go anywhere because I doubt that they will be offered contracts from other franchises to play SUper rug.
But I think the bookies have it wrong. I dont think they will be the Cats, they will surely like to have a fresh start as a ‘part time’ franchise with a new name – Cheetahs and Lions to remain separate in the Currie cup and Vodacom cup. The beauty of this situation is that you can plan ahead and know who the best players will be to form a super rugby squad. The logistics is a weak excuse and shouldnt be seen as a reason for failure . Good planning will be key. Appointing a coach will be tricky…
But SARU will have to play ball, they will have to give the ‘cats’ a fair share of the broadcasting cut, two pieces of the pie for them to sustain their separate provincial franchises… Players should still aim to play for their provinces (while getting paid) with the hope to play Super rugby. You have to play somewhere to be noticed and picked for any super rugby team….
Bring on the Ligers ! The Zebras, The Hippos! Whatever, just not the Cats. Its got a bad history, with bad memories, why would you want to restore a sunken ship?
To name a rough 15….
1.Coenie
2.Strauss (c) / Maku
3.Cilliers/ Van Der Linde
4.Franco van Der Merwe
5.George Earl
6.Brussouw / Minnie
7.Juan Smith (c) / Rhodes
8.Josh / Van der Walt / Rubenhaumer
9. Van Zyl/ De Bruyn
10. Goosen / Jantjies / Ebersohn
12. Strauss/ Hollenbach
13. Ebersohn
14/11. Mapoe, Willie le Roux, Killian
15. Taute
18 May 2012, 11:22 am
I think The Lions will get some money from SARU as a parachute payment to keep them ticking over. They should actually be negotiating the amount right now instead of continuing to deny the inevitable. There are very few problems in the world that can’t be solved with money. They’ve spent so much on the Spears and Kings already.
18 May 2012, 11:27 am
@Alicamousa(Slider)-14: Why should the Lions get money from SARU, they have been getting millions and millions from Newscorp through Super Rugby participation and they blew it for 10 years!!!
18 May 2012, 11:38 am
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-15:
Because regardless whether they deserve to play super rugby or not, they are basically losing their Super rugby spot to accomodate the Kings. If the where relegated because they are ccrap, then Id agree that they should not be getting anything, but that is not the case. So they should at least be accommodated in some way too…
18 May 2012, 11:41 am
@Alicamousa(Slider)-14:
I agree, the Lions’ president seems to be a bit shortsighted. Start working on some solutions regarding the relegation and how the Lions can benefit from it…
18 May 2012, 11:57 am
@Jeez(Jeez)-17: his shortsightedness started when he thought his CC Champs will not finish last in the Super Rugby and he voted Yes to relegation.
18 May 2012, 12:01 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-15:
Thats where youre wrong… He didnt vote for relegation, he voted for the Kings toe be ‘added’. It was Saru’s stuffup to assume that they would be allowed to add a 6th SA team in the comp.
18 May 2012, 12:04 pm
I’ll bet you all a fictional R1 that:
The Lions and Cheetahs will merge.
It will be based in JHB and the Cheetahs will get a paycheque.
This is THE only solution to the mess.
You have to base the new team at the biggest stadium where it can earn the most money. The combination of that team made the semis twice and can do it again easily. Between the two teams there is enough talent to make a real charge to the play-offs.
Basing the team in Bloem is not going to make good money, even though the Cheetahs deserve it on performance and frankly the post-match party is brilliant!! None of that is going to count ladies and gents
As for the Kings, well, it’ll be nice not to see the Lions at the bottom of the log anymore
!!
18 May 2012, 12:10 pm
Can someone please explain why the Lions can not merge with the Bulls. No logistics issues and Mitchell can coach the Super 15 team while Ludeke and handle the CC team. They may even do this on a rotation basis of say 4 years each.
Just have a look at the geographical area the FS Cheetahs and Griquas have to cater for. From Alexanderbay in the west to Harrismith in the east. It just does not make sense to bring the Lions into this setup.
18 May 2012, 12:20 pm
@Dwarslat(Dwarslat)-21:
The Gauteng region is the biggest region from a financial and population perspective. Gauteng needs two teams and can easily service two teams.
A merger with the Cheetahs will mean their players have to emigrate to JHB for the S15 season, but at least the biggest stadium in rugby could possibly fill up again and there is more money to be made for both Cheetahs and Lions than between Bulls and Lions.
Also, the Bulls brand is so strong it will wipe out the Lions, whereas there’s a better case to be made for the weaker brands uniting for S15 purposes.
18 May 2012, 12:21 pm
@zoo cleaner(zoo cleaner)-20:
So do you expect all the Cheetah players to move to Joburg for the whole year and then move back to Bloem to play currie cup? Theyll split the home games 50/50 and arrange temporary accommodation for both traveling parties…
18 May 2012, 12:26 pm
@Jeez(Jeez)-23:
I hope not, the split is what scuppered the Cats.
They need to pick one home base and stick to it. Tough luck for the Cheetahs players I know, want to be a professional, then that’s the life I’m afraid.
18 May 2012, 12:31 pm
Really hope this merger does not happen. Nothing against the Lions but this was a mess before and will be again. Not sure how SARU will sort this mess out but this merger is not the answer. We and other SA unions can loan their top players for next years Super comp and then the Lions can have their players back for the relegation/promotion playoff.
18 May 2012, 12:35 pm
@zoo cleaner(zoo cleaner)-24: The Cheetahs are not going to be relegated the Lions are so if they want us to merge they can come play in Bloem. Still not the best solution.
Why should we pay for SARU errors…
18 May 2012, 12:36 pm
@Cheetahs27(Cheetahs27)-25:
As much as the Cheetahs don’t deserve it I believe its going to happen.
Besides, this new team will be properly powerful, then SA will look at 4 teams fighting for a play-off place, and the Kings will be embarrassing.
This, if done properly, will fill up Ellis Park, bring the hordes of Lions fans back to their TVs and up SARU’s power in SANZAR to start getting us a better deal.
Not sure if SARU could have thought of this strategically so it will happen by accident.
18 May 2012, 12:37 pm
INTERESTING READ Guarantee to make you blink!
THE KEO CONNECTION
Posted: 06 May 2012 at 7:11pm
Highbury Safika Media (HSM) is a publishing house boasting a portfolio of over 30 magazine titles and numerous online publications. Amongst these are SA Rugby Magazine and Keo.co.za – the website of Mark Keohane and other SA Rugby writers such as Ryan Vrede and Jon Cardinelli.
Keohane has been a public figure since his days as Springbok Communications Manager under the ill-fated reigns of both Harry Viljoen and Rudolph Streauli, until he resigned in protest over SARFU’s handling of the Geo Cronjé racism debacle involving Quinton Davids. Keohane went on to publish a book about the episode and the state of the Springboks in general, and was widely criticized by Springbok players (most notably Corné Krige) as deliberately attempting to sow division within their ranks and to undermine SA Rugby in general.
In recent times Keohane has been busying himself in the extensive business interests of HSM, as well as media relations of other entities, such as Jake White’s Winning Ways – a business partnership which ended in a heated law suit, kept hushed away out of the public sphere. Even more recently, however, HSM -and Mark Keohane in particular – were awarded the contract to manage the media, marketing and public relations of the South African Sports Confederation and Olympic Committee (SASCOC). The awarding of this contract was never put up for tender, as is standard government procedure, but was rather awarded directly to HSM (although Keohane states that normal application took place, the fact remains it should have gone to tender).
And this is where the Keo connection begins to reveal itself.
During his time at SA Rugby, Mark Keohane worked alongside the likes of Rian Oberholzer (President of SARFU), Songezo Nayo (Managing Director), Gary Grant (Marketing Director) and the current president of SASCOC – Gideon Sam (Springbok Team Manager).
All four names mentioned above are currently directors of sports marketing company Accelerate Sports, with Gideon Sam being appointed as Chairman. Gideon Sam also serves on the Lotto Distribution Board, but excused himself when dealing with the funding grant to SA Cycling, a grant from which Accelerate Sport received commission to the tune of R 26 million – a blatant conflict of interest.
Accelerate Sport, through their subsidiary Access Facilities and Leisure Management (AFLM), were also awarded the contract as operations manager of the Nelson Mandela Bay Stadium. It is reported that this contract brings in a whopping R 600 000 a month to the coffers of Accelerate. It is the duty of AFLM to source events to be staged at the stadium to generate revenue and keep the stadium sustainable.
And here the connection between rugby and Accelerate begins to become clear.
The contract between AFLM and the Nelson Mandela Bay Metro states that, above the R 600 000 a month, AFLM are to be awarded performance bonuses based on the revenue they generate, providing this amount exceeds R 12,5 million a year. The structure of this bonus is as follows:
The Operator will be paid 10% of any amount above R12.5 million but less than R15 million, and then:
• 12.5% of any amount in excess of R15 million but less than R20 million;
• 15% of any amount in excess of R20 million but less than R25 million; and
• 20% of any amount in excess of R25 million.
It is thus blatantly clear that it is in the best interests of Accelerate to find events which will draw spectators, such as concerts etc.
But what better way to ensure constant revenue, week after week, than playing host to a top tier sports team. If only the Eastern Cape had one.
But wait, Accelerate have strong ties to SARU, they do after all boast an ex-president in their ranks. Would it at this point seem ludicrous to suggest that Oberholzer, Sam, Grant and Nayo used their previous connections to SARU to, excuse the pun, accelerate the Kings’ inclusion in Super Rugby so as to ensure that their business interest was being looked after, leading to SARU’s shock announcement at the Heyneke Meyer press conference about the Kings’ guaranteed inclusion in Super Rugby for 2013? Surely not.
So where does Mark Keohane fit into all this?
Keohane has recently stepped up his anti – Lions rhetoric in his articles, and while not directly naming the Kings in his most recent one, it is clear where his views emanate from. The vested interest he has in servicing his ex-colleagues at SARU (SASCOC contracts etc.) has clearly skewed the views of an already overly opinionated man.
But wait, there’s more.
After the establishment of the Kings, the son of Cheeky Watson – president of the Eastern Province Rugby Union (under which the Kings operate) – Luke, was brought back from Bath to play for the Kings. In May 2011 HSM (with Mark Keohane again at the forefront) announced that it had decided to enter into the field of player management, a first for the publishing company. Furthermore it was announced that their first client would be none other than Luke Watson. Queue the Mark Keohane propaganda machine.
The cover of the very next SA Rugby magazine was adorned by – yes, you guessed it – Luke Watson, with the rather flattering caption “Return of the King”. This was to be only the start of the Keohane marketing hype surrounding Watson and the Kings.
At the same press conference where SARU dropped the Kings bombshell on an unsuspecting audience, Ryan Vrede, a HSM journalist, asked Heyneke Meyer if Luke Watson – a player languishing in the second tier of SA Rugby and who hasn’t been in Bok contention since mid-2008 – was a contender for the position of Springbok captain. These blatant attempts by Keohane to force the name of Luke Watson into mainstream media while he has done nothing to get it there serves to illustrate the hidden agenda and inherent corrupt nature of a man who has lived off the rise and fall of others for far too long.
Not only has the media machine being rolling for Luke Watson, but others being managed under yet another Accelerate Sport company – In-Site Athlete Management – have been enjoying a rise in publicity in SA Rugby magazine as well. Willem Alberts received some ego stroking in May 2011, as did another In-Site managed player -Joe van Niekerk – in March 2012, with the article stating that he is playing the best rugby of his career at Toulon. Buttering him up for a big money move back to SA perhaps?
It is clear that Keo’s connection into Accelerate stretches deep, with an “I’ll scratch your back you scratch mine” policy which benefits both sides. Gideon Sam made sure he looked after Mark with the awarding of the SASCOC account, Mark in turn ensures that the business interests of Accelerate Sport and its stakeholders remains in the mainstream media, and they all walk away happy.
The reason why Keo has gone on a Lions bashing campaign of late should come as no surprise when taking the above into account. Mark Keohane is no longer a journalist; he hasn’t been for quite a while. He is a businessman with a platform to promote his interests and those of others close to him, a platform which he uses selflessly and without shame.
He is a wolf in sheep’s clothing. He is the worm in the apple, and the rot starts with him.
defdisc
18 May 2012, 12:38 pm
The Cats setup has not worked in the past and there is no reason why it will work this time.
The Cheetahs have done everything required this year to avoid a relegation. If the Cats are to return, their home base will be Bloemfontein – finish and klaar. It is then up to SARU or the Lions to sell off Coke Park.
18 May 2012, 12:38 pm
Will the Cheetahs agree to this? I don’t think so…
18 May 2012, 12:43 pm
@zoo cleaner(zoo cleaner)-27: Your solution sounds good but I don’t think the Cheetahs would go for this. It might benefit the Lions but will not benefit us nearly as much.
What happens with the Free State stadium?
18 May 2012, 12:43 pm
The Cheetahs will be very unhappy about this. There is pride and tradition that will be compromised. I see the collapse of a franchise in the not too distant future. It will be the start of the rot in South African rugby as a whole…mark my words.
18 May 2012, 12:47 pm
@Peter Devilears(Peter Devilears)-28:
Eish
That is bad stuff, explains a lot though – especially the anti-Lions campaign (who won the Currie Cup) for the Kings who couldn’t make the final of the B section.
18 May 2012, 12:48 pm
Just look at a map of the country and the geographical logical thing to do is merge the 2 teams in the country’s smallest province. Better to merge the teams that’s based 80km from each other that the 2 that’s 400km from each other. Also the bull supporters have shown previously that they don’t mind traveling to Jo’burg or Soweto to attend games.
18 May 2012, 12:49 pm
Well, the Kings couldn’t do any worse that the “***** Cats” (Lion’s) I don’t think you can blame the Kings, SARU have made this mess and they really don’t know how to sort it out. The Kings as you know it is only the union side not the franchise side, they would recruited better players to play Super Rugby, hence their complaint that their better players have left them to the bigger unions as they have the incentive to play Super Rugby,, only a fool would think that the current kings side can play a franchise side.. The reality is the Lions have had years of Super Rugby, lots of money and they still continue to hog the bottom spots, I think that the same players under a different name/city would perform better,, I say its time for a change,, if you have a grip,, take it out on SARU,, they have messed this up, they have known for a few years about this, they could have communicated how to make 4 out of 5 before the start of this season,, and at the end of the day SA is subsidising Australian Rugby as they do not have their own domestic comp, SARU should get balls (preferably not Lions Balls as they have no teeth)
18 May 2012, 12:49 pm
I know its unfair on the Cheetahs, I’m just predicting the outcome. Besides, if the Cheetahs get paid enough they’ll shut up and play along. They’ll keep their players and the Union will stay intact.
Or else the Cheetahs and the Lions must sue SARU and reverse the Kings decision.
Devilears’ post above is compelling reading.
18 May 2012, 12:50 pm
the NFL franchise model with a draft system still seem to be most sane option.
but provincialism runs very deep and i dont think we can be objective enough for that sort of set-up yet.
18 May 2012, 12:50 pm
@Peter Devilears(Peter Devilears)-28: oh goodness this has been posted more than a 100 times
18 May 2012, 12:52 pm
another good read,,, why why the Lions perhaps because it is a circus,,
http://www.thenewage.co.za/51087-19-53-Franchise_dispute_may_cost_Lions
The Kings look set to replace the Lions in next year’s Super Rugby tournament regardless of where the Johannesburg side finishes on the log.
This is if the South African Rugby Union (Saru) implements a decision that was made at their last executive council meeting which stipulates that the Lions will be “automatically relegated” if they do not resolve a long standing dispute with their estranged franchise partners – the Pumas and Leopards.
According to official documentation in possession of The New Age, the Lions have until the end of this season to come to an agreement with their partners who this week confirmed that negotiations relating to the repayment of outstanding broadcasting fees have failed.
“Our endeavours to resolve this matter out of court has been unsuccessful and we have been left with no choice but to arbitrate,” Leopards president Andre May said yesterday.
Lions president Kevin de Klerk insisted that the union would deal with the franchise partnership issues on a separate platform as it has no influence on their plight to retain their Super Rugby status
18 May 2012, 12:52 pm
making the cheetahs merge with the lions would be like making a guy take back his crack-addicted ex-wife just when he’s getting his life back on track.
18 May 2012, 13:14 pm
@roobarb2(roobarb2)-40:
Absolutely. The merger should benefit the Cheetahs. If its done right, it could be good.
Top 10 Lions players get Cheetah contracts and make the home ground Bloem. If injuries accure the ‘Cats’ coach can decide where to pull a player to the super squad from…
Get a new name, although its still basically the cheetahs, with some decent recruits from the Lions and better depth. The ‘Cats’ have a bad history, bad rep ect. New solution for the old problems and a new name will make a big difference!!
Give the Lions a cut of the broadcasting income, that way they wont lose players… Basically the way Viljoen and Rubenhaemer (from the Griquas) played for the Cheetahs…
@zoo cleaner(zoo cleaner)-36:
Regarding your concern about the size of Bloems stadium. Considering that there is only one team who regularly packs a full house every weekend (Stormers) the size of the stadium wont be a prob.
If you combine the amount loyal Lion and Cheetahs supporters it wont even fill Bloem’s stadium.
Besides they can seat 48000. More than the average attendants of any franchise even two combined….
18 May 2012, 13:19 pm
@Jeez(Jeez)-41:
Fair points. I too would rather the Cheetahs got the home-ground stuff because they deserve it. But the Lions do have the better infrastructure and if the teams cracks it, that could fill up serious seats – if they made a final, they could use FNB…?
Bloem has a much better after-party too.
I’m calling it the way I see it, not the way it should go.
18 May 2012, 13:20 pm
“The reason why Keo has gone on a Lions bashing campaign of late should come as no surprise when taking the above into account. ”
any sane sportswriter who hasnt been on a Lion Bashing campaign of late is either dishonest or disinterested in rugby in general.
all this “media bashing” is disquietingly familiar. like when govt lashes out at the “agents” in the media for reporting on their shenanigans.
18 May 2012, 13:22 pm
Two things:
1. If the Kings had no money to attract top players until now, how did they justify Luke’s salary?
2. Anyone thinking Gumede will sort out their cashflow is dreaming. Gijima is financially fcked. http://www2.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2012-05-18-analysis-gijimas-groundhog-years
18 May 2012, 13:22 pm
promotion/relegation will also adversly affect all teams. What if the bulls have a bad season and get relegated . Tons of revenue lost. Player contracts will also be made shorter and sponsors will have to sign yearly .Quite a mess if you ask me. Mergeing the kings and sharks into the coastal sharks or the bulls lions until 6 teams may take part is an option. This will allow greater player depth and let players get experience until its time to split. Kings should Blood younger players in the vodocom/currie cup and build almost like a coach would building for a world cup
18 May 2012, 13:30 pm
@zoo cleaner(zoo cleaner)-42:
Ellispark is apparently located in a very unsafe area… part of the reason why supporters stay away…Its Joburg ffs…Traffic apparently also a prob for players to get to practice etc.. Infrastructure in Bloem far better…
18 May 2012, 13:35 pm
@zoo cleaner(zoo cleaner)-22: The financial state of the Lions as well as their match record sure does not reflect what your saying. I think your talking through your ***, mate!
18 May 2012, 13:52 pm
the puppetmaster behind this fiasco must be revealed
18 May 2012, 13:58 pm
@Jeez(Jeez)-46:
Not apparently, it IS located in a dodgy part of town!
@TooMuchRugby(TooMuchRugby)-47:
This is based on a merger and no doubt the Lions would need some pay-off to incentivize them too. This is not based on performance or financial states because obviously the Cheetahs would rule the roost.
I’m backing the Cats to re-emerge (maybe under another name) and be based in JHB.
JHB still has a better case than Bloem, there are also more “other supporters” here than in Bloem – for Sharks, Sodomites, Bulls and maybe even Kings.
If managed properly (how’s that for fiction in SA Rugby) JHB is better than Bloem. Cheetahs should also be involved in the financial stuff to help the Lions sure their ineptness in that field.
18 May 2012, 14:07 pm
@Peter Devilears(Peter Devilears)-28: Thats the way the world works – in business the “hand oppie blaas” tjommies look out for each other.
Nothing blatantly criminal about it though.
18 May 2012, 14:12 pm
@zoo cleaner(zoo cleaner)-49: Never been there, but as far as I understand, Coca-Cola park and surrounds is a sh*thole. Nobody wants to go there anymore. The “other” supporters will probably stay at home and watch TV. So much for “bums on seats”. Correct me if I’m wrong here please.
18 May 2012, 14:13 pm
If there is a merger then the Cheetahs should be the main franchise holder with the Lions joining then on a temporary basis.
The Cheetahs have not given SARU any reason to mess with them, they have consistently finished above the Lions, they have better coaching staff and are able to get more out of less, both financially and in terms of team performance.
Add to this the Lions very public inability to manage it’s equity partners as well as their financial and legal woes then it just doesn’t look good.
18 May 2012, 14:16 pm
we shouldnt have 6 teams in the Super Rugby contest. We shouldnt even have 5.
4 max, 12 in total. Super 12 was a much better product.
18 May 2012, 14:17 pm
Not fair on the Cheetahs that are doing quite well this year.
Also the travel factor for players must be a nightmare. Once again it will be living in a suitcase for those players if they merge.
18 May 2012, 14:18 pm
@TooMuchRugby(TooMuchRugby)-51:
Yip, its not in a pretty place but there are park n rides where the busses take you to the stadium. It does lack a post-match atmosphere because of it, which FFS has in abundance.
But if there are good games going on people will go. Test matches are still well supported despite the Park’s location.
If the team is good enough, the people will pitch up.
Personally I’d prefer it if the Park was dumped for FNB and the area around FNB developed for post-match festivities.
18 May 2012, 14:18 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-52: Bloemfontein is not commercially viable. Simple as that. It’s a sponsor’s nightmare. It’s where SuperRugby teams go to die.
If they merge, the new headquarters must be in Soweto.
18 May 2012, 14:32 pm
The simple fact is there should be no merge. The Cheetahs are good enough on their own.
18 May 2012, 14:34 pm
yes in Soweto because black people just loves their rugby! wtf! its rugby – not kaizer chiefs vs pirates
18 May 2012, 14:40 pm
@grant10(grant100)-58: Well done. You managed to cram six mistakes into barely a line of text.
18 May 2012, 14:41 pm
maybe they should merge the Bulls and the Kings. The Buls have 8 Eastern Cape players in their team right now, they’re practicaly merged already
18 May 2012, 14:42 pm
@grant10(grant100)-58: dont be a bigot. come watch a rugby game here in the eastern cape and then tell me about what black people love.
18 May 2012, 14:48 pm
roobarb …. a harlequins and progress game? where a young kid was killed – rugby violence! no thanks
18 May 2012, 14:51 pm
@roobarb2(roobarb2)-61: he unfortunately is from the eastern cape…michael killian moered him during a game and he never recovered, now he trolls this site stealing other people’s nics because he is to dom to come up with his own.
18 May 2012, 14:53 pm
Hmm, Bookies,
Aren’t these the same people who destroyed Hansie.
I say kill the bookies. Kill the Lions. Let everyone else kill the Queens.
18 May 2012, 14:54 pm
@grant10(grant100)-62: doos, the motherwell rugby team that just recently lost 5 players who drowned at bluewater bay beach is what roobarb is on about, 1 incident is not indicative of the whole eastern cape
doos!
18 May 2012, 14:54 pm
transformation aren’t you suppose to be at a Cosatu meeting throwing stones or something? nou kom praat jy k@k hier. ….
18 May 2012, 14:55 pm
@grant10(grant100)-58: You can’t move the Wildcats to Soweto. The Bulls have way more support there than the Lions
18 May 2012, 14:57 pm
transformation where did he mention players who died? f*cknut?
18 May 2012, 14:59 pm
@grant10(grant100)-66: no, my name is not patrick craven
18 May 2012, 15:03 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-65:
BTW. Did Chilly and Werner delivered your paper yet after your comments about our blue eyed boy
18 May 2012, 15:04 pm
@grant10(grant100)-62: you strike me as the type of person who could look at a beautiful rose garden and only see the thorns.
18 May 2012, 15:08 pm
It would be awesome if the queens had a accident somehow during next season. like a plane accident or something haha wipe those quota ******** out and then we forget bout them problem over
18 May 2012, 15:10 pm
@grant10(grant100)-68: where did he mention harlequins vs progress? come watch a match and you jumped to the one that was marred with violence and a child was a victim, coincidence?
doos!
18 May 2012, 15:11 pm
@Atlas(Atlas)-70: nee
18 May 2012, 15:12 pm
@Blitzbok(Blitzbok)-72: Alucard you’re a shithead!
msunu wakho
18 May 2012, 15:14 pm
I refuse to go to Ellis Park unless it’s a Bok vs NZL game. If the Lions sold Ellis Park and moved to Soccer City people would go (I know I would).
The Lions aren’t tapping into the huuuuge Sharks and WP market in Gauteng. Look at Loftus, if the Sharks or WP play 40% of the fan’s aren’t in blue. The Lions refusual to move from Hillbrow keeps those fans out, even when their own team is playing.
There are a couple guys with their fingers in the Ellis Park pie who are stopping what really is a no brainer.
18 May 2012, 15:16 pm
@Blitzbok(Blitzbok)-72:
Wow, somebody has Daddy issues. Poor little man (sorry, I mean boy).
18 May 2012, 15:16 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-74:
We don’t always see eye to eye, but if you’re in Pretoria I’ll have some losie tickets for you.
18 May 2012, 15:18 pm
transformation, its not a once off incident … it happens every weekend
18 May 2012, 15:22 pm
@roobarb2(roobarb2)-60: I suspected as much. Please remind me again who they are
I can think of Dewald Potgieter, other Potgieter, Ndungane, Vermaak maybe?
18 May 2012, 15:23 pm
@grant10(grant100)-79: It also happens in the Western Cape. Should the Stormers be no more as a consequence? And surely then you realise that violence cannot happen if no one supports rugby, thus negating your own original argument.
18 May 2012, 15:24 pm
@CenturionShark (aka LondonShark)(londonshark)-76:
The Lions had a chance to move Ellis Park to the north in the early 90′s
They opted not to, now they are in the crapper
I won 4 tickets to Ellis Park a few weeks ago, and just won’t go
Not because the Lions are k@k, but I don’t want to go to that s.hithole
18 May 2012, 15:25 pm
@Atlas(Atlas)-78: well your team is out of town so it’s a pity as i’m off to jozi this evening…would love to go to loftus.
18 May 2012, 15:27 pm
@TooMuchRugby(TooMuchRugby)-80: zane, ndungane, basson, dewald, jaque, jj engelbrecht
18 May 2012, 15:27 pm
@Atlas(Atlas)-82:
Yeah, it’s sad really. The last game I went to was the Bok-Aus game (where we smashed them 53-8).
Once you in the ground it’s cool, but stuff it’s a ***** getting there!!!
18 May 2012, 15:36 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-84: I think Vermaak is from somewhere in the Karoo maybe
18 May 2012, 15:37 pm
And so is Elton Jantjies (Yes I know – not Bulls)
18 May 2012, 15:40 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-83:
Open invitation
@CenturionShark (aka LondonShark)(londonshark)-85: Never been there. Don’t wont to. Loftus is in a secure place.
I always feel save
18 May 2012, 16:12 pm
@TooMuchRugby(TooMuchRugby)-80: JJ Engelbrecht, Rayno Gerber, Kirchner, Ndungane, altwee Potgieters CJ Stander, Stegman
18 May 2012, 16:43 pm
Michael Killan of the Lions is also from the Eastern Cape.
18 May 2012, 16:53 pm
SARU will shaft the Kings the same way they shafted the Spears and basically handed the Lions years of unbridled mediocrity….watch!
South Africa: Rugby Plot Fails to Douse Spear’s Super 14 Hopes
Business Day (Johannesburg)
September 23, 2006
Posted to the web September 24, 2006
Craig Ray
Johannesburg
SA RUGBY’S attempt to buy out of its commitment to include the Southern Spears in the 2007 Super 14 season has stalled. Saru had hoped to acquire large stakes of the commercial arms of unions that own the troublesome franchise.
It was anticipated that SA Rugby would announce the purchase of 25,1% of shares in Eastern Province and the South Western Districts Eagles. The national body was also expected to make public the acquisition of a further 24,9% stake in each union through the purchase of shares from South African Investment Limited (SAIL), which would have given them a 50% stake in each union.
This would have given Saru enough power to exercise a controlling interest over the Spears.
But on Friday night it became clear that EP and the Eagles had declined the offer. SAIL representatives were not available for comment.
Saru had earlier received written confirmation that the Border Rugby Union, the third partner in the Spears franchise, would sell its shares to them.
But shareholders of EP and the Eagles have refused to budge until at least Tuesday.
That is when Saru’s application for leave to appeal the August 4 decision of Judge Dennis Davis — who ruled that the Spears have the right to play in the 2007 Super 14 — will be heard.
The judge also ruled that the Spears were due compensation for missing out on the 2006 Currie Cup. If is successful in their application, the matter could spend months in court.
The Spears are claiming R7.5m in damages in a counter-suit for losses incurred after being eliminated from this year’s Currie Cup.
18 May 2012, 17:39 pm
@RL(RL)-11:
Or 80% of little lulu’s salary. He is worthless as it is as a rugby player and human being
18 May 2012, 18:54 pm
@72 Blitz
That’s naïve of you to think the Kings players
will be majority black. The reality will be very different
And by the way how are the lions & cheetahs faring with all those “non-quota” players
18 May 2012, 19:03 pm
@TMR 51
Being @ Ellis is a bit jarring (for me at least). There’s never enough people there for that atmosphere or spark in the air that should accompany a SR match
Unfortunately its right next to one of the seediest neighbourhoods in SA. No pre-game or post-game buzz can flourish next to a filthy slum
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