Over-aged players shame SA schools rugby
1 Jun 2012
GARETH DUNCAN reports on the KZN over-age saga that shocked the national schools rugby scene.
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Last weekend, reports emerged that several KZN schoolboys were found to be older than the U18 and U19 age-group school and provincial teams they were selected for. One of the players was reported to be 22 years old.
These players presented fake birth certificates upon high school enrollment. However, KZN head of high school rugby Noel Ingle confirmed that one schoolboy was caught out when a particular school was compiling matric entries. A provincial investigation followed.
The KZN High Schools Rugby Association, with the support of the local schools, employed an immigration expert to carry out a verification process. This was to ensure that no players representing the province or their respective schools at any level were over age.
Siyabonga Tom
No names have officially been released, but keo.co.za’s Schoolboy Derby has it on good authority that two of these schoolboys were Glenwood captain and wing Siyabonga Tom and DHS fullback Mbembe Payi. Both players hail from Port Elizabeth and were granted sport bursaries to attend the respective schools. They both played 1st XV rugby and are KZN U18 Craven Week representatives.
Tom also made the SA Schools team and started against France U18 in last year’s Tri-Nations curtain-raiser in PE. He was then selected for the SA U18 Sevens side that competed at the 2011 Commonwealth Youth Games in the Isle of Man. However, he was dropped from the latter squad as he didn’t possess an ID or passport to make the trip to Europe.
Tom and Payi have left their respective schools since being exposed and are reportedly ‘missing’. They were also absent from the Glenwood-DHS clash in Durban last Saturday, which was televised on SuperSport.
Ingle, who couldn’t confirm the names of the players or schools being investigated, said the matter was being dealt with accordingly.
‘Schools that have over-age players have been informed,’ Ingle told this site. ‘Individual schools have dealt with these matters internally in good faith, and due process will take place.
‘The schools that have been mentioned in the press are not the only schools that found over-age players in their teams. It would be injudicious of me to mention either the player’s names or the names of the schools.
‘We have completed a verification process,’ he continued. ‘The problem is not widespread, but nevertheless, one over-age player is a serious matter. The consequences of serious injury due to an over-age player are too horrendous to contemplate.’
Sharks Academy operations manager Roelof Kotze, who was the SA U18 Sevens squad’s team manager during Commonwealth Youth Games, suggested that this is a national problem.
‘If it happened in KZN, you better believe this is happening in other regions too,’ said Kotze. ‘Players, parents and even agents will do anything for the best opportunities to secure a professional rugby career.
‘There are steps that can be put in place to help solve this matter, but this problem is so sensitive. Players will start accusing each other, and innocent players who are accused will complain. We need input from a national union to sort out this mess.’
Saru does not officially manage school matters, but these are monitored by the South Africa Schools Rugby Association (Sasra).
Sasra acting chairman Thys Bezuidenhout stated that these incidents were ‘highly upsetting’ and he was dumbfounded how these players escaped the national verification procedures.
‘When a player is selected for the junior provincial weeks, they have to fill out a form with their birth certificates or ID copies attached,’ said Bezuidenhout. ‘These are then verified through Saru, who pass these on to home affairs to be checked. So how these players managed to get away with it in the first place is a big mystery.
‘I last heard of an over-age incident during the U18 Craven Week five years ago, when two boys were caught out. Since then, we haven’t had any issues.
‘Hopefully we will be able to resolve this incident. The necessary action will be taken.’
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130 Comments
1 Jun 2012, 05:24 am
Cheating Dragons
1 Jun 2012, 06:05 am
Hang on.
I was told that SA rugby does not cheat, its just the All Blacks.
Makes you wonder , i mean Smit and Matfield could have really been 45 years old.
And another thing, are these there real names?
Matfield could have been named at birth Victor Jake “the muss” Heke and Smit could have been named John ” Im beeched as bro” Smit.
Hmmm you would never know
1 Jun 2012, 07:06 am
I knew it!!!!
Lambie looks to be at least 38yr’s old!!!
1 Jun 2012, 07:14 am
Disgusting. I wonder how many more “schoolboy” stars of tomorrow there are out there…
1 Jun 2012, 07:32 am
Yeah investigate Lambie. I reckon he is about 25.
1 Jun 2012, 07:34 am
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-2:
Imagine how good they would have been in ther 20s then.Maybe the two that were caught are actually kiwis.makes you think.
1 Jun 2012, 07:39 am
Two things that strike me with this news;
1. The EC is the breadbasket of corruption. Fkcukers there will do anything to make a quick bug. One of those PE pricks actually accepted the capaincy of his U18 team and the other doos accepted an all expense paid holiday at the expense of a real boy.
2. Those sharkievarkie school pricks will do anything to become competative at junior levels. Even if it means turning a blind eye to corruption and fraud. Filth the lot of them.
1 Jun 2012, 07:43 am
I reckon that Mvovo is about 28. Sithole aroung 26 and Paul Jordaan mut be the same age as Lambie, 25.
1 Jun 2012, 07:56 am
Iv got an ID book & Passport…..can I go on the next tour,I used to be a looseforward.Hopefully another Stormers loosie gets injured against the Bulls then Alistair will B forced to select me
1 Jun 2012, 08:19 am
Why prematurely release the names of just two of the players, when its clear that there must be mitigating circumstances behind what motivated them to allegedly be deceitful. I assume they are underprivileged youngsters who got the opportunity of a lifetime to study & play rugby at top schools and didn’t want their age to prevent them from doing so
Touchy subject IMHO
1 Jun 2012, 08:23 am
Very bad what was done, but they are just kids, its the adults involved that are to blame.
Their lives are basically now ruined and they will have this stigma attached to them forever, the part about how they have disappeared shows they are embarrassed knowing that their peers and friends now all know,
1 Jun 2012, 08:35 am
@RL(RL)-7:
hehe
straight shooting…?…
1 Jun 2012, 08:42 am
When I was about U15 or thereabouts we started playing rugby against some of these chaps, and let me tell you, there were some hardebaarde in those supposed “junior” teams lining up against us.
18-21 years olds easily.
As for U18 – I wouldn’t be surprised if there were some 25 years olds in those teams.
1 Jun 2012, 08:43 am
@RL(RL)-7: “at the expense of a real boy”
Is he a Caster?
1 Jun 2012, 08:46 am
@Treehugger(Treehugger)-11: Hugz newsflash – a 22 year old man is an adult.
Tell me will those cheating schools have points deducted for matches where those men were involved – or do they condone fraud.
1 Jun 2012, 08:49 am
Men? lol
1 Jun 2012, 08:50 am
Wonder what HG have to say about this ?
1 Jun 2012, 08:51 am
RL works in the Vatican
“Men”; “real boy”
1 Jun 2012, 08:54 am
This is bulshitt!!
I would not be impressed if my teenage boy have to compete against 22 year old men.
And WTF are these boys still doing in school?
There should be an age limit for school, these fhuckers should not be around teenage girls.
1 Jun 2012, 08:56 am
HG will have to acknowledge that the du plessis brothers are in their 30′s
Lambie is 29; paul jordaan 23 etc
1 Jun 2012, 08:59 am
@RL(RL)-8: you reckon the Ndungane’s are close to 40?
1 Jun 2012, 08:59 am
@Mr Black(Mr Black)-19: hell man if they were with teenage girls then they are not only cheats but legally rapist too.
Guys pull your out of those schools.
1 Jun 2012, 08:59 am
“Over-aged players shame KZN schools rugby; Sharks academy under investigation”
1 June 2012
GARETH DUNCAN
1 Jun 2012, 09:01 am
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-13:
probably true,
but the opposite was just as bad. when you meet the ’15 year old in the body of a 25 year old’ bakkies type freaks of nature early developers.
quite honestly, there should be rules against such freaks too imo. its no different being moered by a 25 year old monster whether he’s 15 or 25 on the inside.
1 Jun 2012, 09:01 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-21: that would explain the lack of pace noted over the years.
1 Jun 2012, 09:02 am
Theo: Headmaster and rugby coach @ Itembelihle High School.
i know you periodically blog here on Keo, can you please shed some light on this story, both Mbembe & Tom were at your school and coached by yourself and one can assume you were involved in some manner when the two Natal schools offered the “bursaries” 3 years ago.
Regards
Transformation
1 Jun 2012, 09:03 am
@viewer(viewer)-16:
boys to men…
1 Jun 2012, 09:04 am
@Mr Black(Mr Black)-19: they’re b.onking grade 10 in the KZN boy
1 Jun 2012, 09:04 am
Now you’re venturing into interracial s_ex, San Fernando Valley style
Black men are in school with your daughters
1 Jun 2012, 09:06 am
@houston, we have a problem…(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-24:
I have no idea what you just said.
1 Jun 2012, 09:08 am
@Hurricane(Hurricane)-2: Smit was playing like he’s 45.
1 Jun 2012, 09:10 am
That will explain the unique looks of your grandkids
Your teenage daughter took a 10 inch, veins like a Bar One di_ck (and liked it too)
1 Jun 2012, 09:10 am
It doesnt just happen at 1st team/provincial level either. No names but my grandson plays for a school that played another scuool every year from under 9 to under 13. The games were close every year – great competition between the teams/schools. All of a sudden at under 13 (final primary school) this other school had 3 or 4 new players, apparently all on rugby inspired ” assisted schooling” bursaries. And they were big, very big ! I know that puberty can create imbalances at this age in boys but the difference was VERY noticable. And sorry to say it, but they were all boys from ” previously disadvantaged” backgrounds. I’d like to see what ID’s/birth certificates they were carrying.
1 Jun 2012, 09:11 am
@viewer(viewer)-10: First point. It is dodgy practice to name people ” on good authority” without their names being officially made public.
Second point. It is equally dodgy to assume anything about their motivation.
1 Jun 2012, 09:12 am
@RL(RL)-7: Typical generalization. Now is the whole EP Region corrupt because of this ? It did not even happen in their Region FFS !!
Last week a school Boy from Voortrekker High in Pietermaritzburg was banned for Racial abuse on the rugby field. I suppose by your logic the Natal Sharks or Rather the Whole Durban Region is Racist ? Pathetic.
1 Jun 2012, 09:13 am
@Taahirah(Taahirah)-14: Pinocchio.
1 Jun 2012, 09:13 am
Completely unforgivable.
Means that Siyabonga Tom was 17 or 18 in Std 6!? playing against 13 or 14 year olds.
Also means that when he played for SA u19 he was 21. The difference in develpoment between a boy of 17 and a man of 22 is huge according to the physician who is doing tests at these schools currently.
I’d like to see Tom and this other chap play against the Bulls or Stormers alongside the likes of Lambie and Whitehead at Super Rugby level who are of the same age.
They’d get annihilated.
Glenwood have always pushed the boundaries in this regard and I’m glad they are getting hauled over the coals for this one.
Rest assured though, this is only the tip of the iceberg with this story. Expect more schools in more provinces to be tested from here on in.
1 Jun 2012, 09:13 am
For what it’s worth, the schools I’m referring to are in the Western Cape/Boland.
1 Jun 2012, 09:14 am
@viewer(viewer)-10: I agree , gutter Journalism , The Daily Voice has more Journalistic Etiquette.
1 Jun 2012, 09:14 am
Another reason why so many of these “superstars of the future” fade at senior level?
1 Jun 2012, 09:18 am
Overseas bloggers. Bar One is similar to a Mars Bar
1 Jun 2012, 09:18 am
@viewer(viewer)-32: you’re full s.hit hahahaha
1 Jun 2012, 09:20 am
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-40: how old is chili?
1 Jun 2012, 09:21 am
Ive watched this Tom bloke play a few times, both for Glenwood and KZN.
Played wing and kicked for poles.
Was good but not ’4 years older’ good. I never thought he’d get much further than perhaps the Sharks academy. Even now he’s a little too slow for wing.
1 Jun 2012, 09:23 am
@viewer(viewer)-32: I did not have se x with his daughter.
1 Jun 2012, 09:23 am
I remember at an easter rugby tournament few years ago no1 could believe Yaya Hartzenberg was just 16 years old, at the time he was playing for Rangers. Couple years later he was playing for baby boks.
1 Jun 2012, 09:24 am
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-30:
early developers who are played at their age group levels yet are monster physical specimens capable of playing adult rugby. kids who are15 but may as well be 25, this is possibly just as bad for other kids’ development as well the experience for them imo.
the solution to both these problems is to instead introduce weight range groups rather than age range groups as is practised. this is done in boxing and would work in junior rugby as well.
1 Jun 2012, 09:28 am
This is the price of Schools rugby in its current form of marketing, TV commercialisation, jersey sponsors, extreme competition and steroid abuse.
Rather an older player any day than a dangerously steroid induced overdeveloped boy.
1 Jun 2012, 09:30 am
@houston, we have a problem…(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-47:
Dont be stupid now. Weight class for rugby!!
1 Jun 2012, 09:31 am
I think the schools knew all along.
1 Jun 2012, 09:40 am
@houston, we have a problem…(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-47:
@Mr Black(Mr Black)-49:
I have read somewhere that it was the practice in SA to have weight classes in junior rugby at primary school level . It was probably during the 1950′s or 60′s.
1 Jun 2012, 09:42 am
@houston, we have a problem…(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-47: would you put this kid in the “early developers class”?
Big things to come: Johan Meyer
30 Dec 11 10:55 | Original Content, Sharks |
It’s that time of year when a hand-picked group of talented schoolboys up and down the country prepare to make their way down to Durban to start their new lives as Sharks Academy students. For big Queens College number 8, Johan Meyer, this is a journey that’s been almost two years in the making and one that he simply can’t wait to get started with. Sharksworld caught up with him for a quick chat.
Johan tells us that he’s currently spending some quality time with his girlfriend – and eagerly awaiting his Matric results – having opted to forego the typical “matric holiday” in order to spend more time in the gym, preparing for life as a professional rugby player. “I think the results are coming out on about the 4th,” he tells us, “and I’m a little nervous! I’m planning on studying BCom Marketing at the Academy next year”.
We asked him to tell us a little about his background and how he got started with rugby. “I was born in Port Elizabeth on 26 Feb 1993. I was at Hangklip Junior until grade 6 then I moved to Hudson Park Primary in grade 7 and at the beginning of grade 9 I started at Queens College.” Johan says that rugby has always been a big part of his life. “My dad played for Border schools in 1978 and I’m even a distant relative of [Bulls centre] Wynand Olivier! I started playing bulletjie rugby when I was 8 and rugby has always been my greatest passion.”
Johan’s immediate goals are to make the under 19 team and hopefully break through into under 21 – or maybe even Currie Cup – rugby soon after that. He believes he has the physical attributes and at 1.94m and 106kg (at just 18!) he’s certainly already about the perfect size for a modern number 8. “I have the speed and I can think quickly on my feet. Also have a decent handoff,” he quips, “but possibly my strongest attribute is how committed I am, how badly I want to do well. I still have a lot of things to work on, mostly the more physical stuff, hitting rucks, getting more involved all over the field, not just with ball in hand. That’s what I need to develop more to be an all-round player.”
1 Jun 2012, 09:43 am
When I was at primary school we had a few slow learners in our school – big strong chaps mostly – they could not play sport for the school (under 13) as they were too old- the coach however always took them along to matches against certain schools and he would then check out the opposition before the match to see if there were any “suspiciously matured” players in their team – if there were, he made a few late changes and included our “giant reserves” – the ones who dropped out did not mind as they were in any case not particularly keen to face the 16 year old “giants ” playing for the other side. Nobody ever asked for ID’s or birth certificates.
1 Jun 2012, 09:57 am
@Robzim(Robzim)-52:
Interesting.
You do get the exception though with regard to size as transie showed in post 51.
My boy is 12 yrs old, 1.81 M and weighs 75kg. Now here is the surprise, he has played against bigger kids this year. Granted he is still in Std4, and some of those kids are in std 5.
Now i have on numerous ocasions heard parents next to the field call my son a cheat because of his size thinking he is older. Thats why it is so important for the schools to get the age thing correct.
1 Jun 2012, 10:01 am
Very embarboer.
Dulwich and and Malborough used to do the same thing.
They’d discover these african “princes” who needed to shave at half time and then drove themselves home after the game.
1 Jun 2012, 10:15 am
@Mr Black(Mr Black)-54:
No doubt that the only way is for schools to get it right. How difficult can it be after all to get a birth certificate? I think some of them deliberately turn a blind eye though. Sad really.
1 Jun 2012, 10:18 am
@Robzim(Robzim)-51:
and a reasonable idea too imo.
@Transformation(Transformation)-52:
my point exactly
the kid’s a freak of nature and deserves to succeed with the advantages natures given him but it shouldn’t be at the expense of smaller age group players.
rather have a weight category at junior level imo it would benefit the smaller boys as well as the bigger boys.
@Robzim(Robzim)-53:
my point exactly.
@Mr Black(Mr Black)-54:
not so stupid sounding now hey
1 Jun 2012, 10:19 am
@Robzim(Robzim)-53:
Bishops is a rof school.
1 Jun 2012, 10:24 am
@RL(RL)-15:
Often there aren’t leagues from which to deduct points
Gamnes are done on a ‘friendly’basis
1 Jun 2012, 10:25 am
@the artist formerly known as gunther(gunther)-58:
1 Jun 2012, 10:30 am
@RL(RL)-7:
Your blind provincialism shows through.
If you think that the age group cheating is limited to
a) 2 provinces
b) rugby
then you need your head examined.
Same as steroid cheating which in some ways is worse because it ruins the health of the kids.
When birth certificates are not easily verifiable, when Home Affairs can be bribed, and when some of the kids were born on other Africa countries with even less control then it is very difficult.
Turning a blind eye is just not on though.
At least KZN are being tansparent and eventually stopped these guys from playing.
1 Jun 2012, 10:31 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-52:
Some of the Paarl Gym forwards are even bigger than this bloke
1 Jun 2012, 10:32 am
@houston, we have a problem…(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-57: But the weight category then negates so much of the beauty of rugby. It will represent a 15-man version of 7s as there would be no space (or need) to accommodate the slow guys.
1 Jun 2012, 10:41 am
@Taahirah(Taahirah)-63:
i understand this absolutely but my concern is soley with junior schoolboy level rugby and the harm it does to ‘normally’ developed boys (or perhaps to say ‘underdeveloped’ boys).
it could be possible to field full teams in one or two different weight ranges and still capture the essence of rugbys’ ‘different sizes’ philosophy.
1 Jun 2012, 10:43 am
@Biscuit(Biscuit)-62: And ALL of the Affies forwards are bigger than the Paarl Gym forwards…..
1 Jun 2012, 10:45 am
@the artist formerly known as gunther(gunther)-58:
You ain’t see nothing yet.
1 Jun 2012, 10:50 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food(The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food)-65:
Some schools just “breed” them bigger.
I mean Boland Agriculture High will always have a heavier and more aggressive pack of forwards then the Drakensberg Boys High (choir) School’s first XV.
1 Jun 2012, 10:52 am
@Biscuit(Biscuit)-61: You are spot on with the kids born in other African countries: I know of a chils that played U/13 WP last year or year before. His school coach suspected that he might have been older but the “documents” his parents have, indicated that he was of the correct age. If you can’t prove it, what do you do?
1 Jun 2012, 10:53 am
@CharlesM(CharlesM)-68: child not “chils”. He is a forward as well – imagine the difference between a 13 year old and 15 year old!!
1 Jun 2012, 11:00 am
@CharlesM(CharlesM)-68:
Hi Charles, how are you?
I saw in the paper today that contrary to rumours the schoolboy star Pollard has not as yet signed for the Bulls. According to his dad he received offers from the Bulls and Sharks but they are also still in discussion with WP. His dad also captained the WP Craven week team and is a huge WP supporter. Apparently they will only decide in July after the Craven week where he will play from next year onwards.
1 Jun 2012, 11:19 am
@Robzim(Robzim)-70: On Boots and All a few weeks back, the ‘live’ from Kimberley show, after the schoolboy games, Pollard stood up and asked Naas a question. Naas answered him and inserted a little “don’t worry, soon we (as in the Bulls) will buy you. That was definitely more wishful thinking at that stage though, rather than fact. The only worrying thing about the future of kids like this is: Mr Heyneke Meyer (National coach or not) will still be identifying and telling the Bulls who to buy in terms of youngsters (this will not change). Kids ‘might’ accept offers up north in the hope of being fast tracked into the Bok setup – as I’m sorry to say, there is NO way Meyer and all his ex-Bulls assistants WON’T suddenly stop trying to bolster the northern union (albeit less obviously than before). Just my opinion.
1 Jun 2012, 11:28 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food(The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food)-71:
You have a point. It is quite possible.
I remember Alan Solomons was accused by Brian van Zyl of trying to lure Sharks players to go to Province during his tenure as Bok’s assistant coach. Nothing came from it (Solomons being a very sharp lawyer) but there was much unhappiness.
I see Pollard is on Keo- TV.
1 Jun 2012, 11:33 am
@Robzim(Robzim)-70: Hi Rob, I’m well thanks. I’ve read the report about Pollard: obviously his dad won’t say anything at this stage. My son is a friend of him (he was in Paarl Gym for a while) and the amount that is mentioned that the Bulls are prepared to pay for him is HUGE!! The only way that WP can keep him, is to find a person / company that is prepared to sponsor a part of his contract. Otherwise, he’ll be moving to Loftus next year.
1 Jun 2012, 11:34 am
@Robzim(Robzim)-72: Yes, I remember that! Thanks. Will check out the insert now.
1 Jun 2012, 12:00 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-72: Solomons was 2nd in Charge of the Cape Cabal. I did not know he was a laywer explains alot.
1 Jun 2012, 12:03 pm
@CharlesM(CharlesM)-73: So no conspiracy that HM and his assistants are luring him north so he can be fast tracked into the Boks. It is all about the money and a better chance to win trophys. I strongly believe that HM has much higher ethics than Solomons and Mallet ever had.
1 Jun 2012, 12:16 pm
@Airwell(Airwell)-76: It’s no secret that Meyer rates Pollard highly. He and his parents spent a day or 2 with the Bulls last year to “check out the set-up”. His father is a school principal and I think he is a good negotiator as well
1 Jun 2012, 12:31 pm
@CharlesM(CharlesM)-77: Good for the youngster, maybe the Bulls will develop him and he will go back to the Stormers. You never know what the future brings.
1 Jun 2012, 12:35 pm
@CharlesM(CharlesM)-73:
That is not good news then. Maybe the can get somebody like Groot Schalk to help out- he is after all also an old paarl Gym boy.
WP has not produced a top class flyhalf for years now – I have heard a lot about Tim Swiel but not sure where he is at the moment.
@Airwell(Airwell)-75:
He was one of the best in the business. Not your everyday run of the mill lawyer.
It was never proved that he tried to lure players away so I do not know on what do you base your assumption that there is anything wrong with his ethics or that meyer has higher ethics.
1 Jun 2012, 12:49 pm
“Over-aged players shame SA schools rugby” – same applies to the national team
1 Jun 2012, 12:49 pm
@Airwell(Airwell)-75:
Solly has always been a wheeler dealer.
hatchet man deluxe.
1 Jun 2012, 12:52 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-79: Getting Jake White fired and Teichman dropped. I am sure there is more. Just think about the mutiny of the players while coaching in Endland. Have you heard any similar stories about HM. Or have you heard anybody come out apart from on here that has anything bad to say about HM’s appointment as Bok coach?
1 Jun 2012, 12:54 pm
@the artist formerly known as gunther(gunther)-81: That is why he is a lawyer he makes good company with Cheeky. Soort soek soort.
1 Jun 2012, 12:54 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-79: because solly is slimier than a can of sardines.
he is a fit at the kings for just this reason.
1 Jun 2012, 13:04 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food(The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food)-71:
reminds me of the good old craven/maties days.
legend was you had to be a matie to stand any chance of making the boks
1 Jun 2012, 13:10 pm
@Airwell(Airwell)-82: Wellllllllllll, Heyneke Meyer HAD to have been involved in the attempt by the BBRU to have Jake White removed at the end of 2006? How on earth would the BBRU have put forward their ‘no confidence’ vote, and then provided SARU with their master plan to install Heyneke WITHOUT Heyneke’s knowledge? So no, I believe his integrity is just as ‘grey’ as those you mention.
1 Jun 2012, 13:13 pm
@Airwell(Airwell)-76: On what basis?
1 Jun 2012, 13:16 pm
@Airwell(Airwell)-82:
Solomons was lured to to Northampton after being extremely successful at Ulster. As a person who is not scared of conflict he rubbed some people up the wrong way at Northampshire and tried to change things too quickly- that is why the senior players got upset, it had nothing to do with ethics.
Re the Jake and Teichman issues, Some people would tell you that Jake overstepped the line and got fired because of that while the dropping of Teichman was for rugby reasons (wrong with the benefit of hindsight as Mallett admitted). Yet again nothing to do with ethics.
So I still do not know on what you based your assumptions.
1 Jun 2012, 13:17 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food(The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food)-86: Sorry but getting a coach fired because he does not like him or wanting your mate Skinstad to be a first choice and ******** over a honourable captain like Teichman is far worse than giving your union a plan to fix the Boks because your Union does not think the incumbant is good enough. There is nothing unethical about that. I understand you are scared your favourite players will not be picked but I can nearly say for sure that HM will explain exactly to each player not chosen what he has to do to get in the Bok team unlike what your Cape Cabal duo did.
1 Jun 2012, 13:20 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food(The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food)-86:
Wasn’t it the ex NTvl/BB Springboks who campaigned against Jake?
1 Jun 2012, 13:21 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-84:
Yeah, that is the opinion of most shark fans mainly based on the fact that he was probably part of the decision to drop Gary.
1 Jun 2012, 13:22 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-88: Read Teichmans book and it will give you more insight. But if a person lives life with a code of high ethics these things that happened to Solomons does not happen. HM is by far the most reapected Coach we have had since Kitch. Again show me one ex springbok or current player who has had anything bad to say about him. That tell you what type of man he is. Same cannot be said about Solomon and look who he is hooked up with.
1 Jun 2012, 13:24 pm
@David(David)-90: Yes, but the way I read it – How on earth would ‘their’ (ex BB players and Boks) vote of no confidence make SARU haul Jake’s butt back from the UK? The ‘no confidence’ vote would have had to come from a SARU affiliated ‘body’ for them to take the action they did at the time. And I refuse to believe that Heyneke was ‘in the dark’ about the plan to install him as Bok coach.
1 Jun 2012, 13:27 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-91: probably?
he was instrumental.
watch and learn, he is south africas anwer to john mitchell and always ends up with anger and dispute surrounding him.
1 Jun 2012, 13:32 pm
It’s a massive problem.
You appreciate the problem when you’re a parent hoping to see your kid compete against his peers.
This has been of particular concern to me as my son, who will turn 12 soon had to compete against a guy that was suspect. I tested this with another parent and said to him: Do you see that boy over there? How old do you think he is?
His first response was: Well he has quite a mature face, if I look at his build and strength, I’d say 16. I said: No sir, that guy is 12. His response: no way!!!
So with every passing day sport is being made a mockery because of morally bankrupt individuals.
Man I would love to investigate these individuals and embarrass them in front of everybody. I think that would be fair.
1 Jun 2012, 13:40 pm
@Airwell(Airwell)-92:
i will never use the autobiography of a person as a reliable source for this purpose. There is no doubt that Solomans will have a different view on the matter , so how do we know who is right and who is wrong.
Solomon had to deal with many more different and more diverse people in his life than Meyer who more or less spent most of his professional career coaching the Bulls- so lets see how he goes when the heat gets turned on- it is too early to compare him with Mallett and Solomon.
Why do you blame Solomon for being involved with EP and with Cheeky Watson. As a professional rugby coach/administrator he obviously went where the work and money is and where he thought he can make a contribution.Perhaps he can even make this whole Kings issue work for the longer term benefit of SA rugby, who knows.
1 Jun 2012, 13:44 pm
It’s sad how schoolboy rugby has lost it’s purity. Steroids, over-aged players, pay-for-play arrangements, players bought from other schools. Hell, first teams even have 22 man squads these days. So much for playing “for the love of the game”. By the time these okes have turned 21, these guys will basically have played 4 years of professional rugby.
1 Jun 2012, 13:44 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-94:
Somebody must rock the boat every now and then otherwise things become too cosy. I am telling you we need somebody like that in WP rugby at the moment just to wake this bunch out of slumberland.
1 Jun 2012, 13:47 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-96: Agreed. It is no point bagging the Kings for their lack of professional rugby acumen and criticizing the rugby capital that helps to correct this situation.
1 Jun 2012, 13:50 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-98: Agreed again.
1 Jun 2012, 13:53 pm
96
Is that the offical Keo line,or is it just wishful thinking????
1 Jun 2012, 14:05 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-96: My thoughts exactly. The fact is: Those in the north, have been waiting for years to ‘control’ Springbok rugby again. Their last effort was rather poor, what his name again? Williams? early 90′s? They have watched the Cape Cabal win 17 games on the trot…they have watched Jake take a WC and they watched P Divvy do what they felt Heyneke should have been doing at the time. Heyneke’s appointment means a heckuva lot to more to this lot, than what we can even comprehend (and it is evident in the way that BB bloggers,BB journalists, BB players(and ex players have been expressing themselves since HM started) For many of them, this is almost a position of entitlement, and they have waited a long time. What’s already funny though, is the way they are all coming down on all previous Bok coaches (even the successful ones), and raising Heyneke to God like levels – before he has won a test – never mind 17. I’m keen to see how Heyneke (and his disciples) handle the following: a) A player refusing to listen gospel songs in the team bus, because he wants to listen to gangsta rap and; b) How Meyer’s disciples are going to react if Heyneke stuffs up at some stage. Interesting times indeed: But all I know is: The Cape Cabal were successful – The Tswane Tea Club haven’t done a thing as of yet.
1 Jun 2012, 14:47 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food(The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food)-102: Interesting that you didn’t mention Harry Viljoen or Carel du Plessis’s ”successful” tenures as Springbok coaches. Probably still embarrassed about it. Young,talented players always wanted to go to the Bulls – because they’re the most successful union in SA. If they can become Springboks going there,why not? Comparing Solomons with Meyer is utterly laughable – a better comparison will be Solomons with Allister Coetzee! You sound very bitter about the Bulls, good luck with tomorrow’s match!
1 Jun 2012, 14:50 pm
102
What a jerk off,did Daddy tell you this.
Both World Cups were won with Northern coaches and captains
The only contribution the Cape Cabal,a name you obviously heard bandied around at Kelvingrove, made to each cup was limiting your contribution to a solitary player in each case.
Piss off shortsop,thank god the control of rugby has moved from the incompetent,corrupt Cape Cabal.
Pieeppie joller,
1 Jun 2012, 15:07 pm
@Loftus(Loftus)-103: Whenever one presents you Bulls lot with an opinion that doesn’t suit the Rugby Bible according to you – you get defensive, and aggressive. I wonder why? Anyway – I used Mallet and co, and Jake because even though they were successful, you BB lot did not have a good word to say about them (and THAT formed the basis of my comment – if you understood it correctly – which is debatable)
1 Jun 2012, 15:10 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-98: @The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food(The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food)-93: was Heyneke part of the infamous “Cape Cabal” while coaching at SWD, a gig which saw him coach the Stormers forwards and the Boks under Mallett?
how far removed is Heyneke really to the ’99 World Cup squad? i ask the question because when it suits some his association with Mallett’s Boks is used as positive in that he’s worked in an international environment but when it comes to issues like “dropping Teich” he seems to be conviniently absolved.
As the Boks’ forward coach in ’99 what was Heyneke’s take on the whole Skinstad/Teich debacle?
1 Jun 2012, 15:14 pm
@mad eye(mad eye)-104: You are a borderline jellybaby in terms of mental capacity, and you obviously had no clue as to what I was actually trying to say. I can take photos, or I can design the more traditional flashcards with images? Your choice Forrest?
I refer to a Blue Bulls BOK coach…..
The Cape Cabal was a name given to Mallet and his coaching team little man, and whilst they didn’t win a WC, they certainly had an outstanding win record (did they not?) – which is why I mention folk ‘hating’ them, even though they succeeded. Now I am going to enjoy a cocktail – whilst you finish your shift in some Shoprite parking area. (A word of advice – when one tries so desperately hard to sound ‘tough’, it doesn’t help much when the person you are trying to ‘out tough’, pictures you as a ’50kg Wynie Strydom/Mike Catt type car guard – just a thought.)
1 Jun 2012, 15:25 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-106: Very interesting that. Perhaps one of these Bulls bloggers who seem to have backstage access to the thoughts and opinions of Heyneke Meyer, would answer this? (What the Bulls in particular seem to forget – is that without Mallet, there would have been no Meyer at the BBRU – Did Mallet not push Heyneke into taking the Bulls job at a time when even St Jude (the patron saint of lost causes) wouldn’t have touched the job………
1 Jun 2012, 15:26 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food(The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food)-105: Just for the record, I’ve never had a problem with Mallet nor White – I actually respect both of them. I do have a problem with people that just want to criticise Meyer before he even picked a team. It seems like a lot of people really want to see him fail – mostly Stormers fans. Which is sad,seeing that we all support the Springboks.
1 Jun 2012, 15:37 pm
@Loftus(Loftus)-109: That was you then. What about the other 98% of Bulls fans? You know that the sentiment was very negative indeed. I don’t think anyone ‘wants’ Heyneke to fail mate – that would be pathetic from any person calling himself a Bok fan. BUT: I think many people (myself included) are rather curious to see what type of pressure Heyneke gets compared to what other coaches have endured. It just seems as though every time someone questions a decision, or announcement made by Heyneke – all the Bulls fans take it as a personal attack on themselves/Bulls rugby/Heyneke’s honour etc. You guys have to chill a bit.
1 Jun 2012, 15:39 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food(The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food)-107: hahahahaha
1 Jun 2012, 15:45 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food(The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food)-110: Fair enough, interesting times ahead of us!
1 Jun 2012, 15:47 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food(The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food)-108: Yes Mallett did, Heyneke admitted as much in his first interview on Supersport with Xola Ntshinga. he also alluded to a bit of initial skepticism from some quarters as he was “seen” – rightly so – to be too close to the Cape Cabal…
not everything at the Blue Bulls is always honky dory, the following is a report around the time that Stephan Pretorius quit as CEO of the BBC.
“Pretorius survived, but his power dwindled. Increasingly disillusioned, he watched as coach Heyneke Meyer threatened to resign at one stage when the board of directors refused his request to delegate responsibility of the Currie Cup team. Meyer eventually got his way, but the Bulls bosses were shown to be ultra conservative in their thinking.
Then two months ago the BBRU took all control of the junior structures away from the Blue Bulls Company.
According to those close to him, Pretorius felt that this move undermined the system that had made the Bulls the strongest in the country.
The clubs were incensed that top junior stars didn’t play for them and personal agendas also seemed to be behind the process.
All of this contributed to Pretorius’s decision.”
1 Jun 2012, 16:01 pm
110
hPity some of the money spent on your education didn’t result in a few manners.
Your parents must hate you, all that money at Bishops and you resort to an infintile nic like that.
10 of Transformation’s buddies could have lived their whole lives on what it took to get you to the level where you could come up with that.
Why when you played hockey at school do you spend your life on a rugby site.
Friend be careful of the next car guard you walk past it could be me.
Did you ever see Cape Fear,look under the car Daddy bought you tonite you never know
1 Jun 2012, 16:05 pm
@mad eye(mad eye)-114: you know my buddies?
1 Jun 2012, 16:10 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food(The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food)-110:
why would he be under any less pressure than the others?
already the brokeback sewing circle is sobbing hysterically about the blou bokke.
1 Jun 2012, 16:19 pm
114
Sure they share the parking lot with me at Checkers,waiting for our 50 cents that Dog Food hands out to us everytime we don’t molest his car,that daddy bought for him.
1 Jun 2012, 16:19 pm
I must say that I am impressed that the Bulls supporters are even able to post something in English here…..
1 Jun 2012, 16:22 pm
@the artist formerly known as gunther(gunther)-116: I have a feeling he will be given a certain amount of leeway by the Bulls faithful, leeway not afforded to any other Bok coach in the professional era. (It is understandable to an extent). It just seems as though every question thrown by the ‘fans’ or ‘experts – (in Mallets case) is met with a chorus of “Leave Meyer alone, he is respected, he is a moral man etc etc etc”. Will he for example be put under the same cosh as P Divvy was if his English ‘fails’ during an interview etc. Who knows – because of the amazing public support, and fanatical hero worshiping of the man from some quarters, he might just be under more pressure than most who have gone before him.
@mad eye(mad eye)-114: Tonight I will light a candle for you. In Memoriam.@Transformation(Transformation)-113: Very interesting indeed!
1 Jun 2012, 16:47 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food(The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food)-119:
How odd.
Are the Bulls faithful the opinion makers and thought leaders in South African Rugby?
There is always going to be partisanship in South African Rugby. there always has been.
How this translates into an easier ride for Meyer is unclear.
I think you are looking for reds under the bed there.
As for what Mallet says he knows his rugby that’s for sure.
However, right now he’s looking for a job and his comments should be viewed in that context.
1 Jun 2012, 16:53 pm
@the artist formerly known as gunther(gunther)-120: Well according to the Bulls faithful they are the opinion makers and thought leaders? Or have I summed up 5 years of crowing incorrectly?
How this translates into an easier ride for Meyer is simple: He already knows (if according to stats thrown about so readily by Bulls fans are to be believed) over 50% of the population already back him – purely because they support the Bulls. Which already means 50% less pressure than anyone before him. Doesn’t really matter what way one looks at it, the Bulls faithful can be pretty influential in determining public sentiment towards teams, coaches, players – just ask Mallet, Jake and P Divvy.
1 Jun 2012, 16:59 pm
I think you are reaching.
Winning titles doesn’t make their supporters influential.
lmao.
You seem to be a bit of a conspiracy theorist when it comes to the bulls.
a little less da Vinci code for you I think.
1 Jun 2012, 17:05 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food(The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food)-121:
I think you give the ‘Bull’s Faithful’ far to much credit here. Furthermore, as you alluded to earlier, one should expect some sort of partisanship. After all, it is a ‘Bull’s’ man in charge of the national team and although he is now the national coach, he will always be seen by others, whether rightly or wrongly, as backing the Bulls.
I see where your trepidation comes from, but maybe allow the Bulls supporters this chance to crow and the rest of us non-Bulls can sit back and judge the man on his results. I think it’s a fair compromise. After all, we will be able to tear in to all these Bulls fans should the Boks fail or (and I really hope this happens) we all sit back and enjoy at least four years of winning Springbok rugby. The Bulls fans will then be able to crow till the cows come home and I will gladly give them their time in the sun.
1 Jun 2012, 17:34 pm
RobZimbo, I wouldn’t rush to defend Mullett or Snollymans. Clever, but mercenary. They never denied the details in the Teichman biography which probably means it was true. Skinstad was played injured, rumour has it so Snolly could collect on a Guiness sponsorship. Mullett ended a number of careers starting with Gaffie and ending with Honiball. Like PdV he had fantastic players, achieved some good results but lost respect and the RWC. Set SA rugby back as well.
As for Meyer, we’ll wait and see.
1 Jun 2012, 17:35 pm
methinks dogfood has had too much time reading cape sports media in that “bubble”
1 Jun 2012, 20:16 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food(The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food)-102: listen china, those in the north have delivered two rugby world cups and 3 super rugby trophies – so hush little boy.
1 Jun 2012, 20:50 pm
@RL(RL)-126: haha, woof simply cant understand that re d pus s y.
95 was basically tvl, 2007 was sharks and bulls.
btw, i think your team will get r a ped by the sharks tomorrow.
have another fine weekend pellie.
1 Jun 2012, 23:04 pm
Congratulations Siyabongo Tom, with 25 years old aprox. you can play very well against 17/18 years old guys. Eres cojonudo chaval, cojonudo!!!
2 Jun 2012, 05:22 am
The’ye under 18 in African time. (Just as how the 8 o’clock morning bus really arrives at 10h45 in African time. Or the 7pm Sunday ferry leaves on Wednesday. Sundials don’t work when it’s overcast so you lose hours or days of regular time. And when the sun shines and you keep yourself hydrated with beer you lose a bit more time too. ) Siyabonga is probably only about 11 in Eastern Cape calendar time.
2 Jun 2012, 08:41 am
@mad eye(mad eye)-104: What are you smoking? Smit is an English Boy from Pretoria Boys’ High. Hardly a northern Captain, and he’s been at the Sharks since before time.
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