Hulks do it for Heyneke
4 Jun 2012
RYAN VREDE writes that Heyneke Meyer’s first Springbok squad sent a discouraging message to diminutive players.
Over the years of my professional association with Meyer he has consistently spoken of four primary criteria when assessing players. Strength and size are the most pertinent attributes for the purposes of this piece. The absence of those attributes is primarily what precluded players of the ilk of Gio Aplon and Juan de Jongh from Springbok selection.
It is a throwback to the Jake White era, where players with game-breaking skills but who were of a relatively diminutive constitution, were consistently overlooked. Brent Russell suffered most at the time and his omission – despite an extended period in which he impressed in Super Rugby – was a constant matter of debate.
White famously argued that a talented big guy would always trump a talent little one. Meyer shares that view.
This is not a judgement on that view. Indeed, through numerous conversations with him I’ve come to understand the rationale that guides that thinking. And neither am I suggesting that Meyer has a complete disregard for smaller players. He is a great admirer of Aplon and De Jongh’s attacking play, but has serious reservations about their ability to consistently dominate the tackle fight on attack and defence (characteristics he values highly and ones that are central to the success of his game plan) and fears that at Test level Aplon would be targeted as being vulnerable to high kicks, whether deployed at wing or fullback.
What then of a player like Bjorn Basson who at 84kg and 1.84m doesn’t appear to fit the physical bill? Meyer reasons his exceptional aerial ability and appreciable speed is crucial in the context of his kick-chase game plan and makes up for what he lacks in size. Morne Steyn, no giant himself, is saved by his goal and tactical-kicking ability. Had he not been injured Johann Goosen would have made the squad because Meyer believes he has an X factor.
Aplon and De Jongh are not seen to have such redeeming features. This should be concerning if you are a South African backline player (particularly if you play in the back three) that lacks a quality or qualities (by Meyer’s standard) to circumvent your physical limitations. Your chances are even more remote if you’re a forward of modest build. Keegan Daniel’s selection is evidence that Meyer is not closed to such selections. But Daniel, not in Meyer’s plans until very recently, has had to be consistently excellent for the Sharks to advance his cause (his performance against the Stormers at Kings Park a fortnight ago sealed his inclusion). Whether he sees any game time during the England series remains to be seen but he almost certainly won’t be a starter if he does.
It would be remiss not to ask whether Aplon and De Jongh have in fact done enough to feel aggrieved at their exclusion? Certainly the Stormers’ attacking struggles have compromised them, but even so, Aplon hasn’t scaled the heights that earned him the 2010 Players’ Player of the Year award and De Jongh has failed to replicate the form he showed in his formative years. Neither have let themselves or their team down, but equally neither have really made a granitic case for inclusion.
The wee fellas in Super Rugby will know they have to be consistently outstanding to catch Meyer’s eye. It is unfair, but Meyer’s conviction on this issue won’t wane for the foreseeable future. He loves the hulks and dazzling dwarves face a period in the Test wilderness unless they add attributes to their armoury that would make them impossible to ignore.
Springbok 32-man squad for June Test series:
Backs – Bjorn Basson, Jean de Villiers, JJ Engelbrecht, Bryan Habana, Francois Hougaard, Elton Jantjies, Zane Kirchner, Patrick Lambie, Lwazi Mvovo, Wynand Olivier, Ruan Pienaar, JP Pietersen, Frans Steyn, Morne Steyn, Jano Vermaak.
Forwards – Willem Alberts, Marcell Coetzee, Keegan Daniel, Bismarck du Plessis, Jannie du Plessis, Eben Etzebeth, Ryan Kankowski, Juandre Kruger, Werner Kruger, Beast Mtawarira, Coenie Oosthuizen, Jacques Potgieter, Chiliboy Ralepelle, Pierre Spies, Adriaan Strauss, Flip van der Merwe, Franco van der Merwe.
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642 Comments
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4 Jun 2012, 14:43 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-585:
You guys keep on talking about the ABs. Why? Meyer has said many times this is a team only for the England challenge. It will look a lot different come the Championship.
4 Jun 2012, 14:50 pm
@STBUR(STBUR)-601: Apart from a coupla players returning from injury this will still be the bulk of the team,unless they go down 3-0 to the poms imo.
4 Jun 2012, 15:39 pm
Apart from the snub of Grant and Sykes, I belived HM’s squad could have been much worse. Not sure of the reasoning for picking the struggling half back combo of Styen and Hougaard who have failed consistantly at the Super Rugby level and to assure the public that they will perform BETTER at the Test level?
4 Jun 2012, 15:40 pm
@STBUR(STBUR)-600:
“The simple fact is there is no need to pick Pietersen and Aplon because those roles are already adequately filled by equally skilled players but who have size to their advantage.”
Please name the players that are as equally skilled as Aplon who have the speed, the stepping, to run though an entire side almost untouched…? New Zealand has plenty of them… Aussie a few… South Africa…? Gio and Joe…
“The marginal calls like Kirchner and Kankowski are old hands at international play.”
Kirchner = 14 caps
Aplon = 16 caps
Yet you say Kirchner is the ‘old hand’…?
Did your homework well I see…
4 Jun 2012, 15:45 pm
@Hondo(Hondo)-603: I would be playing Ruan Pienaar at 9 and Hougaard on thw wing, especially with no Gio Aplon. Hougaard needs more time at 9 to refine his kicking game
4 Jun 2012, 15:51 pm
@ufo(ufo)-604: Ignore this twat, he nearly knocked himself out yesterday, stating that Marcel Coetzee outplayed Kolisi at the Sardine tin 2 weeks back…… His knowledge is sucked from the same place HG uses to do most of his research – his exhaust pipe.
4 Jun 2012, 15:53 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food(The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food)-606:
Hahaha… okay bud… thanks for the headsup…!!
4 Jun 2012, 15:56 pm
@Skeppie(Skeppie)-605:
Would have been my first choice anyway: Pienaar, Grant, Habana, JJ Engelbrecht, F Styen, Hougaard, with Lambie and Taute off the bench.
4 Jun 2012, 16:00 pm
@ufo(ufo)-604:
HM simply preferred his home grown quotas Kirchner and Bason over Aplon and JdJ, the size criterion held for Brent Russell and thus shoud be applicable for them too?
4 Jun 2012, 16:03 pm
@Hondo(Hondo)-609:
others may be amused by your racist remarks on this site… i find them disgusting…
i suggest address your comments and posts to someone who actually gives ashit what you think…
4 Jun 2012, 16:11 pm
Crock of shite… Daniels is the smallest loose-forward in Super Rugby… so much for the ‘hulk’ theory…
4 Jun 2012, 16:19 pm
The game has changed. Even Stormers do not play with flair of yesterday.
Tries(Except for breakaways) are scored via rolling
mauls,or by the arm wrestle close to the line.
In other words by speedy and strong hulks.
Has no one noticed how often skop & jag is used byAussies and
AB,s.
Having said that i disagree with some omissions.Never with selections.Players
do not select themselves as nd should not be subject to personal attack..Go Bokke.
4 Jun 2012, 16:22 pm
Hello UFO
4 Jun 2012, 16:31 pm
@ryecatcher(ryecatcher)-613:
Hey Rye…
How you doing Bud…?
What do you think of the squad and captain…?
4 Jun 2012, 16:40 pm
heh, i see people read the article, forget everything it says, inserts provincial bias and vents.
wash rince repeat.
4 Jun 2012, 16:42 pm
UFO @ 614.Captain great. Big respect for him. Squad some dissapointments,but will support
the Boks on Saturday.
regards
4 Jun 2012, 16:43 pm
@ryecatcher(ryecatcher)-616:
As will we all Rye…!!
4 Jun 2012, 17:02 pm
Dunno why you okes think we such hulks – england going to outweight us substantially forwards and backs – we font even know that alberts will start.
The non-selectio if elstadt was very poor for this specific England series – Kolisi, Aplon, Brussow, De Jong were also very poor non selectioons in general. I would have liked to personally have seen deon fourie over Strauss and cj and cilliers jannie and coenie for England
4 Jun 2012, 17:04 pm
Dissapointments=disappointments
4 Jun 2012, 17:09 pm
Our pack is lightweight and young, the only bulk is from jannie Alberts, and it’s a complete waste on the former. They going to regret not having elstadt on the bench – you remember the way he came out against bakkies last year – that says all you need to know about how he will not only meet, but rise, to test demands. Etsebeth and Kruger while good do not have that prescence yet.
4 Jun 2012, 17:12 pm
@cab(cab)-620: Etsebeth has plenty of bulk, as does Bismarck and Beast. I can’t see the English outweighing us by much.
4 Jun 2012, 17:24 pm
Katman
etsebeth v young – got 4-5 years before meneer status, he is bladdy good but need some more grunt there for England who come for tge tight attritional battle.
4 Jun 2012, 17:32 pm
We got too many young athletic gazelles upfront and not enough hardebaarde buffalo to lock horns and trample – tge only baarde we got are kak. I foresee problems – I’m sure HM means well but things don’t look good, hopefully am proven wrong.
4 Jun 2012, 17:41 pm
@cab(cab)-622: Etsebeth got more grunt than an old age home toilet in the early morning. He’ll lock horns with the best hardebaard the Poms can throw our way. Ditto for Bissy and Alberts. Remember, their version of a tough guy is James Haskel, or that Cole prop. I’m not afraid of them.
4 Jun 2012, 17:47 pm
hahaha
“Etsebeth got more grunt than an old age home toilet in the early morning.”
hilarious
4 Jun 2012, 18:02 pm
lol – let’s hope so katman
4 Jun 2012, 19:45 pm
Bigger is better, its the way of life boys
4 Jun 2012, 19:52 pm
This size obsession has hurt Springbok rugby for years plus robbed talented players test caps in place of bigger more useless players. you do not become better at rugby by pushing weights in a gym just as you will not become good at weight lifting by playing rugby. you get good at what you practice at! Spies is a grwat example of a guy who off the field does everything the so called sport experts tell him yet delivers average/poor performances on the pitch 75% of the time! The Bok pack for years has weighed in excess of 900kgs at one point i think it was 925kgs yet in those games posession has been a big problem as noone was there to compete for the ball, furthermore the scrummage backpeddled as the game drew to a close as the fitness levels plummeted towards the end of the game. Another example would be on Springbok size rules neither David Pocock or Richie McCaw would have made the squad, both of them are around 182-186cms and weigh below 100kgs (as the season gets in swing). Years ago the Boks boasted Smit was the lightest member of their front row before a game at 118kgs but still the scrum got decimated. The Bok pack of 1995 would piss all over the current Bok team in a scrum contest and they werent exceptional weightlifters
4 Jun 2012, 20:14 pm
We don’t have any bulky players – the experienced players like jannie and spies have no grunt – pull the stats out and I reckon englan outweigh us in every position accross the park -okes are stuck in the past with their stereotypes that we are stuck on the past – it’s not even the bulk u want so much as tge right kind of attitude upfront to take on England at a very specific kind of game – the bold should have had a bacrow that combined the brawn of alberts with the workrate of brussow and the allround ability if a vermeulen or kolisi to also get stuck in – instead we got potgieter, spies, kankowksi and daniels – that’s behind two greenhorn locking a TH that’s already v mediocre. It’s going to be like the sharks of super rugby, except one level up – plenty pace – but maybe too light in the broek for England. We will literally have to try run them of their feet on our harder fields but I’m not sure this is the plan cos there is no brussow, aplon or jdj. I dunno this seems v mixed up.
4 Jun 2012, 20:23 pm
I think meyer is weary of the big English midfield and I think his selection of frans steyn at 12 over jdv is a v good one (hopefully frans has not put on more pies tho). However it also indicates to me that these are defensive selections – and he has taken the most attacking strikerunners and linebreaks sa presently have – in aplon and jdj – right out if tge equation. This is not good idea IMO particularly if our pack is light and not dominant – in such a scenario you want to have the expansive attacking option outwide if you are getting beat upfront but they will not have that. It’s a helluva lot to ask from two new locks and two new loosies with spies and plesier and jannie in the mix.
4 Jun 2012, 20:32 pm
@ufo(ufo)-604:
Hougaard, Mvovo, Habana…
4 Jun 2012, 20:33 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food(The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food)-606:
I didn’t. I said Coetzee overshadowed him.
4 Jun 2012, 20:37 pm
heyneke meyer is a p&%^s end of story.he is a dumb useless hairbrained old dinosaur ****. England for the win
4 Jun 2012, 20:38 pm
@cab(cab)-618:
Elstadts discipline is horrifically bad.
Brussow and de Jongh has not done anything the entire season to justify selection. Kolisi is the only one that can feel unlucky. But one non-selection does not make a bad squad. Froth over nothing.
Aplon is not needed. We have good, more powerful wings already.
Lambie will FB and covers flyhalf. Pietersen would weaken the balance of the squad.
4 Jun 2012, 20:42 pm
@ufo(ufo)-604:
*****, you people like putting words in ones mouth. I didn’t say Kirchner has more caps than Aplon. I said Kirchner and Kankowski have international experience, thus even if they are not my 1st picks I understand why they are chosen. Aplon is just superfluous to requirements because of Hougaard, Habana, JP and Mvovo.
But you guys can’t seem to talk address any of the points logically. Little nit-picking one liners is the best you have?
4 Jun 2012, 21:22 pm
Elstadt is like danie rossouw – he’s hands are poor but he’s as tough as teak and he’s got the fiery attitude that could make all tge difference if uses as an insurance policy from tge bench to cover lock and flank. Imagine elstadt in his first test – he would be snorting like a dragon – we are going to need some of that.
I don’t think it’s a bad squad – I’m simply saying u get your selections wrong at this level – even 1 or 2 key ones, and it’s tickets – I reckon he’s made about 5 or 6 poor calls. Brussow also being a v bad one to leave out. If pdV had done that ppl would burned the oke at the stake and saying, don’t froth, I’m saying these selections could see HM and the Boks lose and get themselves into hot water – then you’ll see frothing, more than likely from the same ppl who hot so much confidence in him now.
5 Jun 2012, 04:49 am
The theory works well in 7′s. The big skilled Kiwi’s are 10 times better than the little skilled Boks…………just watch the games.
So by definition it should work for 15 a side. The problem lies in when you select a big unskilled player like Kirschner and leave out a little skilled player like Aplon.
Thats doos logic!
5 Jun 2012, 06:33 am
@STBUR(STBUR)-635:
I did address your points logically…
you said Kirchner and Kankowski are old hands at international play… i pointed out that Aplon has more caps than Kirchner…
now you say… “I didn’t say Kirchner has more caps than Aplon. I said Kirchner and Kankowski have international experience, thus even if they are not my 1st picks I understand why they are chosen.”
and so does gio aplon… more in fact than kirchner… so why binrg up international experience to justify apron’s exclusion… and now your point has been proven wrong you simply state aplon is superfluous… that is not a fact… it is merely your rather flimsy opinion…
so if not caps… by what measure do you quantify international experience…?
you are the one being illogical…
then you refer to me in the plural as “you people” and “you guys”…
again… no logic or sense…
you then state “Little nit-picking one liners is the best you have?” when clearly my response to you was more than one line… and was hardly nitpicking… it was asking your to justify your original comment…
so clearly… fact and accuracy are not things you pay too much attention to…
if you don’t want me or other people to respond to your comments why make them… if you make them don;t cry when people challenge you…
Pedigree @ 606 is correct about you… with your absurd statement that coetzee outplayed kolisi in durban when kolisi did not even play in that game you reveal your flimsy grasp of reality and fact…
i will heed his advice and waste no more time on you…
5 Jun 2012, 13:47 pm
Another article when there is none? More than half the backs are small relative to their position.
5 Jun 2012, 15:03 pm
Gadzooks ! 6hundred and plenty comments…..at least we all have an opinion about the squad. The England series in particular is about winning, not playing pretty rugby and getting thumped. HM is simply doing what he thinks he needs to in order to win the series. Whether he is right or wrong will be glaringly apparent by the eve of 23 June (could be earlier if Boks or Poms go 2 – zip up on the 16th of course he…he…he…) All I will say is that KC picked players he knew and trusted, even tho’ they were virtually all from one Province (and that’s not THE Prooveeeence !!)and his record was 14 from 14 if memory serves……Hell, I don’t agree with all of HM’s selections but let’s get behind the team (as we all will anyway !) and maybe we will be pleasantly surprised…..
6 Jun 2012, 14:41 pm
gotta love it…
on saturday the legend of eben etzebeth grows… when he’s unleashed on the poms…
when last did a 20-year-old tight forward make his international rugby debut for one of the top tier nations…?
don’t know if it’s ever happened… ?
eben… go and say huzzit to those poms for us…!!!
6 Jun 2012, 14:42 pm
wrong thread…
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