Johnson, Marler debut for England
7 Jun 2012
Flank Tom Johnson and prop Joe Marler will play their first Test when England face South Africa in Durban on Saturday.
There could also be a debut for utility back Jonathan Joseph, who is named among the substitutes. In changes to the run-on side from their last Six Nations Test against Ireland, Marler replaces Alex Corbisiero at loosehead and Johnson comes in for Tom Croft at blindside.
In the back division, scrumhalf Ben Youngs ousts Lee Dickson, who drops to the bench, while in the back three Mike Brown’s inclusion at fullback sees Ben Foden move to the left wing, with David Strettle out of the 22 altogether. Brown’s inclusion is a clear indication that England expect to be bombarded with tactical kicks, the Harlequins man’s aerial ability and counter-attacking ability seen as key.
Meanwhile Owen Farrell starts at flyhalf ahead of Toby Flood, the latter playing off the wood. Home town boy Brad Barritt starts at inside centre and Manu Tuilagi has had no recurrence of the injury that sidelined him until Monday, and starts at No 13.
Speaking about the debutants England head coach Stuart Lancaster said: ‘Tom and Joe have had great seasons at their clubs and have worked really hard to get this chance, both are in great form and have really impressed in training.’
He added: ‘Equally, Mike Brown has been outstanding for Harlequins. By moving Ben Foden to the wing we retain his strike power and aerial skills and can utilise not only Mike’s attacking and defensive assets we can also call on his left footed kicking game.’
England - 15 Mike Brown, 14 Chris Ashton, 13 Manusamoa Tuilagi, 12 Brad Barritt, 11 Ben Foden, 10 Owen Farrell, 9 Ben Youngs, 8 Ben Morgan, 7 Chris Robshaw (c), 6 Tom Johnson, 5 Geoff Parling, 4 Mouritz Botha, 3 Dan Cole, 2 Dylan Hartley, 1 Joe Marler.
Subs: 16 Lee Mears, 17 Paul Doran Jones, 18 Tom Palmer, 19 Phil Dowson, 20 Lee Dickson, 21 Toby Flood, 22 Jonathan Joseph
272 Comments
7 Jun 2012, 10:31 am
We should beat these dragons.
7 Jun 2012, 10:34 am
Boks will take it.
7 Jun 2012, 10:35 am
Silly move to move Foden to the wing. Brown is selected purely for the high ball.
7 Jun 2012, 10:38 am
Thats the best 8,9,10,12 axis they’ve had for years.
Strong front row as well.
Boks by 5-10.
7 Jun 2012, 10:40 am
boks will slaughter
7 Jun 2012, 10:47 am
Not impressed. Boks by more than 10.
7 Jun 2012, 10:52 am
Four changes to the team who beat Ireland in the 6N.
Strong England team, but I am with Pompies on the Ben Foden move – even though David Strettle is injured, this move is just plain silly.
He would have been selected there for the kick-chase defense, but it is a reactive rather than a proactive selection. Foden can be destructive on the counter if the Boks misfire.
Marler (only 21!) and Mike Brown was outstanding for Harlequins this season. Brown offers a left foot from the last line of defense.
Don’t know a lot about Tom Johnson, but he was outstanding against the Barbarians.
The Boks will be tested.
7 Jun 2012, 10:54 am
Gonna be close,test match rugby in slippery conditions.
7 Jun 2012, 11:03 am
Tom Johnson, has been in outstanding form for the Exeter Chiefs. Injury prevented him from featuring in the 6N.
7 Jun 2012, 11:05 am
Barrit vs. Steyn at 12 is going to be a cracker!
JDV vs the Samoan should be interesting too.
7 Jun 2012, 11:07 am
You guys crack me up. You know everything about your own players but b***er all about ours [except willie and john]…
Brown has been outstanding full-back in England this season and he can counter as well as catch. In the modern game each wing can expect to spend a lot of time in the f/b role anyway, so Foden will have his time.
Tom Johnson is the kind of flank who succeeds in SA conditions. Tough, hard tackler, not afraid of the nitty-gritty – all the things you stripped away from your own b/r by dropping Heinrich Brussow. With both Robshaw and TJ in our lineup, there will be huge pressure on MArcell Coetzee to play exceptionally in his first Test.
I think Marler will surprise JdP. He has immense upper body strength, and that suits SA scrummaging style. It will be a great contest.
And believe me, after Loubscher’s comments the other day, Owen Farrell and Barritt will be licking their lips waiting for your boys to come down their channel. Farrell is the best defensive 10 anywhere.
7 Jun 2012, 11:08 am
@PaulLondon(PaulLondon)-9:
I reckon England is going to miss the height and speed of Tom Croft a lot. Is this Johnson bloke a similar type of player?
7 Jun 2012, 11:12 am
@Robzim(Robzim)-12:
Has the speed of Croft but not such a good lineout player. Better on the ground and in the close-quarter stuff.
7 Jun 2012, 11:17 am
@kinlaw_62(kinlaw_62)-13:
Thanks.
If he has the speed of Croft he must be flipping quick- imo Croft could have caused havoc on the fast SA fields – but if Johnson is better than him on the ground and at close quarter stuff it might work out well for England in Durban if the conditions are as wet as expected.
7 Jun 2012, 11:21 am
@kinlaw_62(kinlaw_62)-11: “Owen Farrell and Barritt will be licking their lips waiting for your boys to come down their channel” Yep and Barritt, Durban boy schooled at Kearseney College is playing on his real home turf!
7 Jun 2012, 11:22 am
Jeez is it just me or is there a serious lack of decent articles leading up to this test. No juicy training ground details or interviews with players etc. The articles have been few and far between. Maybe i´m just excited at the first hit out of our new Bok team sans old stalwarts and Divvy. Keen to see if there will be any improvement. Itching for SA rugby to finally hit its straps. Weve won a lot under Divvy but there have been less than convincing aspects of our play for a long time that have been gnawing at me. All Blacks and Australia have been playing with a good measure of confidence for some time now.
7 Jun 2012, 11:22 am
@kinlaw_62(kinlaw_62)-11: Hi Kinlaw,
I expect Barrit et al to run down the Boks 10-12 channel too, going to be an interesting battle.
I think your boys can cause an upset on Saturday, particularly on a wet surface.
7 Jun 2012, 11:23 am
@Sharksgirl(Sharksgirl)-15: oops and against former team mates
7 Jun 2012, 11:23 am
@kinlaw_62(kinlaw_62)-11: Let’s be honest here, most people around the world know more about our players than yours. Why do you think that is?
7 Jun 2012, 11:23 am
@kinlaw_62(kinlaw_62)-11:
Nice informative post.
Don’t know much about this England team but the way they’ve gone so quiet but confident in their own way almost unnoticed by the SA Rugby media got me a bit nervy, along with most in SA taking a victory as a given.
How do you rate your chances given where both teams are at the moment, as well as the expected heavy field caused by downpours the last couple of days?
7 Jun 2012, 11:24 am
@kinlaw_62(kinlaw_62)-11: Do the English use 6 or 7 for open side?
7 Jun 2012, 11:26 am
@Kinlaw_62-11
Spot on…
7 Jun 2012, 11:27 am
Mike Brown is a selection that has been waiting to happen.
Brown at the back and Foden on the wing makes the back 3 very stong.
POMPIES.
Brown is good under the high ball, but in my humble opinion, has shown he has that x factor ability. So many good attacking runs by Halequins have revolved around him. His form over the past 2 years has been brilliant, and he also seems to be a real tough customer. If that back 3 gets space and the ball they will give us problems.
7 Jun 2012, 11:28 am
And according to Ashton they’ve put in a lot of work for the aerial assault with Catt for this series.
That’s exactly what Cory Jane said ahead of the TriNations 2010 and we all know how the Boks game crumbled after that.
7 Jun 2012, 11:28 am
@willievz(willievz)-7: I watched a bit of the Harlequins / Leicester match the other day and Marler was quite impressive. I think Jannie duP might be in for a surprise. I still can’t believe HM hasn’t picked a specialist tighthead on the bench
7 Jun 2012, 11:29 am
@Bokhoring(Bokhoring)-21: They use 7 for openside, like the rest of the world.
It is only us and the Frogs that use 6 for openside.
However, I suspect Johnson and Robshaw might play left-right this series.
7 Jun 2012, 11:30 am
@Slumtown(Slumtown)-16:
Maybe NZ but Aussies’ confidence is shot after that Scotland debacle.
7 Jun 2012, 11:30 am
I will be keeping an eye on the ABs Irish test, I’ll probably watch the Oz Wales test, but the game of the weekend will be you guys against England. Do not write the English off guys, there has been bugger all talk from them and they are keeping they’re heads down. They will turn up to Kings park, and they will have a crack. Should be an absolute beauty.
7 Jun 2012, 11:31 am
@kinlaw_62(kinlaw_62)-11: I can’t believe that Loubscher made those comments. My motto has always been to say as little about your opposition as possible (e.g Jake White about the Ireland locks when he was still coaching the Boks)
7 Jun 2012, 11:31 am
@willievz(willievz)-26: Robshaw does look a bit big for an open side though – so I assume the smaller Johnson would fill that role.
7 Jun 2012, 11:33 am
@hensopper1(hensopper1)-23: I have followed Brown very closely this season.
He has been good, but in a wet arial contest I would have gone for Foden at 15, and Brown on the wing.
Not the other way around.
@CharlesM(CharlesM)-25: HM is bargaining on Coenie doing a stop-gap job at 3 should he be required. I am also concerned about this as the Doc is not an 80 minute player IMO. The wet field might actually save HM here, as it is often a nullifier at scrum time.
7 Jun 2012, 11:34 am
@NZRugby(NZRugby)-28: I’m guessing that Lancaster must have told James Haskell to shove his Tour Diary Video Camera up his backside for this series. That would account for at least half the silence.
7 Jun 2012, 11:36 am
I will bet a boot load of Johnny Blue that Chris Ashton has Kings Park turf imbedded into his DNA the second he gets ball and attempts to shuffle inside and up through the FWD,s due to his channel being shut down.
7 Jun 2012, 11:37 am
@Sharksgirl(Sharksgirl)-15:
Yep a nice irony eh? Should feel right at home…
7 Jun 2012, 11:38 am
@willievz(willievz)-31: And Doc’s form has been suspect since his marriage ?
7 Jun 2012, 11:39 am
@NZRugby(NZRugby)-28:
Conditions are perfect for an upset.
If England can resist our traditional fiery start it will turn into a nervy affair for us.
One advantage we have though is that the game is handled by a SH ref so the Boks will be more accustomed to his interpretations.
There’s a difference in how NH refs handle the breakdown, they’re more lenient of players flooding a ruck contesting for the ball even if they do go to ground whereas SH refs will blow up the first guy leaving his feet even if by accident.
7 Jun 2012, 11:39 am
@wpstormerbok(wpstormerbok)-27: yeah now – but the last few years theyve been playing with a lot of confidence and lets not forget they did beat us in the WC. Aus rugby on a whole seems to be on a bit of a downturn this year as can be seen by their Super Rugby performances.
7 Jun 2012, 11:40 am
@kinlaw_62(kinlaw_62)-11: There’s a reason Brown hasn’t played much test rugby. It’s because he’s not better than Foden. Foden has better attacking ability from the back compared to Brown. Brown is a safety option and a confidence player. 1 mistake and he could fall to bits.
7 Jun 2012, 11:41 am
Big Bok brekers full of vain expectations again
Brown and Foden better bets than either of Kirchner or Lambie
Boks SHOULD win by virtue that its a home game and their spirits will be sky high with so much resting on the young guns,,
BUT, this England pack and their back line will NOT be a walkover..
Our front row gonna be drukked and second row we got 2 light locks and one newbie not used to the high attrition of international rugby yet.
Back row we got lighties again, with more speed and only Alberts providing any grunt.
at half back they got better distributors and thinking players, only Barritt that don’t measure up to the big stage, he’s their weakest link, Tuilagi is a monster and out wide they are dangerous.
England also got a far better bench than us. Joseph way better than Oivier, and Flood can take initiative at 10 or move Farrell to inside center if Barritt don’t fire which is how I would have started this game if I were Lancaster.
England get up a head of steam and if ref blows an even game and don’t favor the home side this side could be more than a handful for Meyer’s first encounter. Anyone thinking Bok’s gonna cream this team should hold off their eager expectations till after the weekend.
7 Jun 2012, 11:44 am
@Slumtown(Slumtown)-37:
They’ve had our number that’s for sure, we can’t seem to handle these fleet footed type of players like Genia, Cooper, Beale etc and another example Shane Williams who made us look like fools, until Frans Steyn got a piece of him
But Aussies have been beaten twice by Scotland under Deans, once by Samoa and lost a Test vs England at home as well as away so things aren’t rosy for them either.
7 Jun 2012, 11:44 am
@louis schropnel(louis shrapnel)-39: Eben light – at 2.03 m and 117 kg?
7 Jun 2012, 11:46 am
@louis schropnel(louis shrapnel)-39: Who are the two light locks?
7 Jun 2012, 11:47 am
@wpstormerbok(wpstormerbok)-20:
I think we’ll have our best chance in Durban, especially given the likely conditions. Ellis Park at altitude? Don’t fancy that one as much!
We believe while your lineout and kicking game are impressive, your halves can be pressured. Although he’s clearly a very talented player, is Francois Hougaard really a scrum-half? And we’ll be looking to get into Morne [naturally].
Also queries about your back-row, only Coetzee seems able to run and get his hands dirty. Spies we don’t rate, shoulda stayed on the wing and become the white Lomu.
IMO we have a better than even chance of winning in Durban. After that, anyone’s guess – it might depend on whether HM starts to second-guess himself..
@Bokhoring(Bokhoring)-21:
Both are 6-and-a-1/2′s, capable of playing 6 or 7. Johnson is quicker but Robshaw is extremely physical and always seems to absorb a lot of attention from the opposition.
7 Jun 2012, 11:48 am
@louis schropnel(louis shrapnel)-39: Their three locks are 114, 115 and 116kg. Ours are 112, 118 and 123kg. Or did you just like the alliteration of “light locks”?
7 Jun 2012, 11:50 am
The way the boks are running in training will see Frans Steyn as quite central to the gameplan.
Standing at 1st receiver on occassion, bashing it up the middle and punting it downfield.
Coetzee wont be as involved in play and set moves as he is at Sharks which means he might lose confidence early on, but hopefully not dissapear.( i doubt he will)
Another concern for me is IMO Keegan Daniel Should be starting ahead of Spies at the back of the scrum. What Keegan gives away in cm height wise, he makes up for with in Mongrel. That would be a proactive choice for the new look Pom b/r.
Lastly the English will be the Boks mighty hard as they are preparing in silence building up confidence, but the boks bench barring Wynand Olivier are stronger.
7 Jun 2012, 11:51 am
@kinlaw_62(kinlaw_62)-43: You question our back row, but only mention Coetzee and Spies, conveniently overlooking the big fella that’s going to put a world of hurt on whoever attempts to take the ball up. Alberts is a one man wrecking crew. Dismiss him at your peril.
7 Jun 2012, 11:52 am
@pompies2(pompies2)-38:
Foden has been one of the first names on the teamsheet for a while now, so Brown has had to be patient. But he has a big howitzer on the end of his left leg and he’s not afraid to take people on. Can be a bit volatile but hey, no-one’s perfect!
7 Jun 2012, 11:52 am
@>^..^< katman(katman)-46: We just need the Alberts that played against the Stormers
7 Jun 2012, 11:53 am
@Bokhoring(Bokhoring)-48: That’s him. He’s there. Fear not.
7 Jun 2012, 11:54 am
@kinlaw_62(kinlaw_62)-43: You raise a good point.
For the opening game Boks should have had
15. Kirchener
14. Hougaard (better wing option)
13. Jdv
12. F. Steyn
11. Basson (high ball)
10. Lambie
09. Ruan
08. Keegan
Rest stay same
Yes i support the Sharks btw not Bulls judging by my selections
7 Jun 2012, 11:54 am
@>^..^< katman(katman)-49: He has never disappointed in a green jersey
7 Jun 2012, 11:55 am
@>^..^< katman(katman)-46:
Alberts yep, great ball-carrier if you let him get up a head of steam, true. But he’s been in the top 20 missed tackles all season in super rugger – as long as you don’t make the mistake of running straight into him you’ve a chance there…
7 Jun 2012, 11:55 am
@kinlaw_62(kinlaw_62)-47: I think he was chosen for his height and howziter, but it’s not the way to beat the Boks.
7 Jun 2012, 11:55 am
eben is big but only 20 years old.. Sykes and Bressler overshadowed him in Durban, granted he was playing with a weak front row and back row supporting him but this is deep end stuff right here.
Mouritz Botha got international experience and is about same height but heavier than Kruger, Geoff Parling is approx. same height and weight as Kruger and mobile. Tom Palmer is approx same height and weight as Eben.
England will miss Lawes for both aggression and mobility and height but Vd Merwe is the heavy in the Bok pack and should have been started with Etsebeth off bench.
7 Jun 2012, 11:56 am
@chucky(chucky)-50:
Believe me, we are very, very merry Poms that Brussow has not been picked!!
7 Jun 2012, 11:57 am
@pompies2(pompies2)-53:
Well we’re not Aussies and Kiwis who can run around a lot. We’re more like you guys. We want someone to stand still so we can bash ‘em.
7 Jun 2012, 11:58 am
@kinlaw_62(kinlaw_62)-43:
Hougaardt had a bad game on Saturday, probably the only one I can remember where you can say he had a shocker.
He’s a confident player so it’ll be interesting to see how he backs up from a below par performance.
Since you’ve pointed out the Boks potential weaknesses where do you feel this England team is vulnerable?
7 Jun 2012, 11:58 am
@louis schropnel(louis shrapnel)-54: He was fighting a lonely batlle – his lock partner was clearly injured. I am not a Stormer fan, but if there is one guy I think will step up it is Etzebeth
7 Jun 2012, 11:59 am
@Sharksgirl(Sharksgirl)-35: You get two kinds of rugby players in love:
(i) Those who become meek as a lamb (as influenced by the female power)
(ii) Those who become even more neanderthalic and vicious (a newly found passion to protect their loved ones)
The Doc is a smart guy, but is he immune to either (i) or (ii)?
7 Jun 2012, 11:59 am
Very good back three for England… Habanero should have the edge over Ashton but the matchup between JPP and Foden will be very interesting…
Mike Brown is not to be underestimated… He has worked hard to force his way into recognition. He might have the edge on Kirchner.
Not worried about Barritt vs Steyn but am concerned about Tuilagi vs JdV. I suspect any front foot ball for England will be distributed wide to Tuilagi where they will target the outside channels for first contact…
Farrell is a toughie at 10 but I suspect Youngs and he can really be harried and hurt by Coetzee and Hougaard.
Front row will be a very good battle with Bismarck being the difference… Loosies are pretty even but I reckon the Bok lock debutants is where SA’s true advantage lies… Good driving mauls with strike moves from blindside wings will be the order of the day…
Close game… Hopefully the officials play inconspicuous roles but with Matinee Walsh in the middle and irish-french Rolland on the side competing for the centre of attention there could very well be some controversy…
The Boks must not lose this one… They cannot lose. Therefore I suspect they wont.
7 Jun 2012, 12:00 pm
@kinlaw_62(kinlaw_62)-52: Those stats can be very misleading. I’d rather have an Alberts who misses 30 out of the 100 he attempts than a Spies who misses 4 of the 10 he tries.
In case you need a reminder: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47WS6qMtdsI
7 Jun 2012, 12:01 pm
@Kinlaw_62-55
Never mind Brussow. I was over the moon when they left out Kolisi..
7 Jun 2012, 12:01 pm
@wpstormerbok(wpstormerbok)-57:
We’ve lost Croft, Lawes and Tom Wood to injury so….. lineout. We rate Juandre Kruger over here having been at the Saints, very smart lineout thinker.
7 Jun 2012, 12:02 pm
@louis schropnel(louis shrapnel)-54:
What are your views on the Steve Welsh factor re- style, breakdown, interpretation, and possible rain predicted
7 Jun 2012, 12:02 pm
alliteration
7 Jun 2012, 12:02 pm
@kinlaw_62(kinlaw_62)-34: Yep I am all Green and Gold this week but I must say that is definitely one of the players I am looking forward to seeing!
7 Jun 2012, 12:03 pm
I’m not sure why some people are so certain the Boks will be unbeatable? At this stage there is a whole host of ‘unknowns’ (except the game plan) and arrogantly dispatching what by all accounts is a very disciplined, focused, well coached and well prepared team seems seems foolish. It also seems very disrespectful to opposition, who certainly have the ability to shut us up smartly. I really don’t get all the chest beating just yet?
7 Jun 2012, 12:03 pm
@louis schropnel(louis shrapnel)-54: Rubbish. Don’t just post stuff in the hope that we’ll believe it. I checked their stats. Palmer is 116kg, and Etzebeth is 123kg. That’s hardly “approximately the same”.
7 Jun 2012, 12:04 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-61:
Maybe we’ll see. We’d like to get Alberts defending in space, or Spies defending anywhere! Do you remember the old film ‘Jason and the Argonauts’? Spies always reminds me of the huge bronze giant in that…
7 Jun 2012, 12:04 pm
@PaulLondon(PaulLondon)-62: How come YOU guys see it, yet many people right here in SA don’t?
7 Jun 2012, 12:04 pm
@chucky(chucky)-45:
Frans Steyn often gets his kicks charged down when operating at 1st receiver so if he shows up there I hope the plan is to run because if he passes it will be a skip and if England have their homework they’ll be looking out for that.
On Keegan Daniels I agree, he’s small but gets through a lot of work and always running on the ball carrier’s shoulder.
Spies has more bulk but he has a small heart and as soon as someone graces his ankles he goes to ground so any size advantage we had with him there is nullified.
Coetzee has made name as a difficult customer with ball in hand so it will be interesting to see how he operates should we employ the kick game which will require a greater defensive effort then what he’s used to at the Sharks.
7 Jun 2012, 12:05 pm
@Sharksgirl(Sharksgirl)-66:
Always nice to have balance eh?
7 Jun 2012, 12:06 pm
Maybe Bismarck can have a “quiet” word to Hartley regarding his tendency for gnashing teeth and biting…
7 Jun 2012, 12:06 pm
@FFF(FFF)-64: What will old Walsh see as ‘daylight’ in the match…..
7 Jun 2012, 12:06 pm
@FFF(FFF)-64: Walsh will likely blow SH style which will favor Boks.. he knows us we know him.. if anything Walsh will be a Bok advantage and not an England one.
Plus his heart will favor Boks.. they should have picked a truly impartial ref like somebody from France or Japan for this one.
7 Jun 2012, 12:06 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-60: I think the compariso between fullback is inaccurate. This weekend the fulllbacks will be up against their opposing flyhalves. Makes a difference when looking at it that way. With Frans in the midfield, the kicking options have increased in that kicking agles will change as well. Expect Brown to get a bit of a runaround in addition to fielding the up-and-unders.
7 Jun 2012, 12:07 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food(The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food)-73:
Tell me ??????
7 Jun 2012, 12:08 pm
Maybe Bismarck can have a “quiet” word to Hartley regarding his tendency for gnashing teeth and biting…
7 Jun 2012, 12:11 pm
@pompies2(pompies2)-76: @pompies2(pompies2)-76: I think comparison between FBs wrt their respective contributions to their teams is just fine. Brown may have more value for England than Kirchner to the Boks.
7 Jun 2012, 12:11 pm
@FFF(FFF)-76: I wish I knew…..he should do the southern hemisphere thing…..BUT, as we all know, when the eyes of the world are on Deuce Bigalow, he tends to forget everything that has come before, and focuses entirely on blowing a game in the manner which gets him the most ‘face time’ on the telly.
7 Jun 2012, 12:11 pm
@Bokhoring(Bokhoring)-48:
also to ‘unleash the doodpoes’ *(copyright gunther)
at about minute 60
7 Jun 2012, 12:12 pm
@louis schropnel(louis shrapnel)-74:
He used to be a complete Dog and thought he had celebrity status with the whistle, and displayed complete and total bias at times (Cough Cough Mark Lawrence)………..but he seems to have grown up, and intern is growing on me
7 Jun 2012, 12:12 pm
@wpstormerbok(wpstormerbok)-71: Agreed. But surprisingly not many kicks were been made at training even with Frans at 10.
Boks look to want to run hard and break down the Poms and not so much of the 50/50 up in the air as we all expect.
Hopefully not like Griesel and co in Babyboks defeat where they were playing like dumb programmed robots kicking eeven when it clearly wasnt on
7 Jun 2012, 12:13 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food(The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food)-79:
Mark Lawrence is his apprentice
7 Jun 2012, 12:15 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-77:
i hope ashton gets pk’d all game long.
7 Jun 2012, 12:16 pm
@willievz(willievz)-59:
clearly not to 1. in my opinion. Since his marriage he has become quite the teddy bear 
Except against the Stormers, maybe Plum threatened to lock away his wife if he didn’t perform in that game
7 Jun 2012, 12:16 pm
@kinlaw_62(kinlaw_62)-69: I’m happy for your confidence and bravado. It’s good to feel that way about your chances. Keeps you young. As long as you don’t get all morbid and depro afterwards, then life is peachy.
7 Jun 2012, 12:17 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-78: Questionable. They are even at best, with Kirchner slightly egding it at times, but i suppose being a Shark, you inclined to choose Brown with the aim of discrediting Kirchner.
7 Jun 2012, 12:19 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-86:
It must be nice for you to at last be in a position to support a team who has at least a 50% chance to win a match
7 Jun 2012, 12:21 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food(The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food)-67: You are right… However I suspect that your “close-game” sentiments may come more from “northern” Heyneke “cabal” negativity rather than any appreciation of, or respect for, the ability of the England players or management…
Nevertheless this England side were a couple of better decisions, and a little bit of luck away from arriving on these shores as Grand Slam winning 6N champs…
They are a good, unassuming side with a very good attitude… No hype all hard work… They will not lie down. But then again neither will Der Kaiser’s Boks.
7 Jun 2012, 12:22 pm
@chucky(chucky)-82:
That’s good to hear as we’ve won so many games playing with scraps of possession so if the plan is to hold onto the ball longer then it’s good news.
Hopefully we won’t see too many human centipedes or 20 meter drives followed by an up n under.
7 Jun 2012, 12:22 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-88: The Currie Cup was not that long ago
7 Jun 2012, 12:24 pm
@houston, we have a problem…(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-85: One excellent PK will do nicely…lol Maybe Doodpoes can issue when he comes on in the 2nd half after sitting on him first. Habanero can teach him a couple of lessons before that…
7 Jun 2012, 12:24 pm
@kinlaw_62(kinlaw_62)-72: Well if Johnny was still part of your team that would have made it 2 players I would have loved to meet. I have always had what can only be termed as a crush on Mr Wilkinson
.
Anyway I hope the Boks win but all the best to your team!
7 Jun 2012, 12:25 pm
@FFF(FFF)-83: Rather Steve than some of the others, but he honestly does have a tendency to draw attention to himself in internationals (think its the viewer numbers). I just hope our lot are preparing for both eventualities. There is nothing worse than expecting a ‘certain’ interpretation(and preparing for it), then suddenly realizing it ain’t gonna happen, and having no contingency plan in place. Jean will just have to monitor carefully. (thankfully he is an outspoken captain and Steve (bless his heart) is a ref always keen to chat.)
7 Jun 2012, 12:25 pm
wpstormerbok – Your comment about the Ozzie’s confidence being shot after the Scotish defefeat, is in my opinion wrong. The Ozzies have always had the capability to pick themselves and take a big scalp in the very next game after a huge defeat!!!
They won the 3N last year, knocked us out of the RWC(Get over it)!!
7 Jun 2012, 12:27 pm
There will be a lot of sparing in the first test, therefore I predict a close finish. Boks to edge it. Second and third will be a different story. Tsunami.
7 Jun 2012, 12:28 pm
@pompies2(pompies2)-88: Not at all… I do not discredit Kirchner because he is a Bull… Rather I credit Brown because he has been in excellent form for Quins and has displaced former England darling at fullback, Foden. A subtle difference, see? Apologies if the difference was maybe a little too subtle for the likes of you to pick up…
7 Jun 2012, 12:30 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food(The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food)-95:
The truth is there was always a heavy anti-saffa undercurrent with IRB refs since readmission
Paddy, Dickenson, Bryce, Walsh……and every Irish ref to ever don the whistle, although Bryce’s last performance was a bit of a swansong in terms of complete over exposure, so I think that a lot of refs wont risk “blowing” there ratings with the “all eyes on me ”whilst reffing SA games……at least not for a while tho
7 Jun 2012, 12:31 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food(The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food)-95:
And thank God its not Smitty…..cause we all know about their relations
7 Jun 2012, 12:32 pm
You and subtle aren’t aquaintances. given your history on the blog, i’ve made a reasonable assumption. of course you will defend it.
7 Jun 2012, 12:32 pm
How does one get the @whoever going?
7 Jun 2012, 12:32 pm
Katiekitty attempting to be the know all fundi on 2nd row objectivity
According Blue Bulls website
Kruger is 198 cm and 110 Kg
Vd Merwe is 198 cm and 117 kg
Stormers website offers Etsebeth at 2.03 and 120 Kg
So who’s lying because Flip is heavier than Etsebeth
On RFU website
Mouritz Botha = 198 cm and 115 kg
Geoff Parling = 198 cm and 114 kg
Tom Parling = 200 cm and 116 kg
Etsebeth is a rookie at this level, even if his weight is measured correct he still looks lighter than Vd Merwe by some kgs.
His mobility and work rate is unsurpassed ., but he’s very young for an international lock
England would have needed Lawes, their 2nd row is not as confrontational without him but Botha is an aggressive footballer with more hard edged experience than Etsebeth.
7 Jun 2012, 12:33 pm
wpstormerbok – The Biggest problem i have with the Bok team for Saturday is the lack of a grunt loosie for the Boks!! This is where i think Brussow should have been selected, infact is he in the Bok 32?
I don’t know Marcel Coetzee at all, does he do alot of grunt work on the floor? Keegan is great but is more of a running loosie than a hard worker!!
Oh well lets see, if the Boks win this game easily expect to see a few changes for next week, if they win that one expect to see wholesale changes for the 3rd test.
However if we lose this opening test expect poo poo to hit the fan and watch the panic set in!!!
7 Jun 2012, 12:33 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-89: Actually, nothing to do with Northern Cabal sentiment. Our run on team is one most folk(even Stormer fans) would have picked bar one or two points of contention – you know our issue was with the broader squad don’t you? In fact, let me tell you that I for one think Zane K was the right decision at 15 for this game: he is the only specialist 15 we have in the squad – Lambie isn’t and it showed last Saturday – so no anti-Bull nonsense here. It is just that we might be expecting a little too much. This is a very good English team, and the manner in which Lancaster has managed them, prepared them, groomed them thus far stops me from making any wild statements about the Boks nailing them. We might, we might not. Unknowns…..
7 Jun 2012, 12:34 pm
@Tourettes(Tourettes)-97:
Tsunami hey?
I hate Greek food.
Gives me the trots.
Boks to take it.
The weather will be a leveller in the first test though.
Thereafter I expect daylight between the two teams.
Look at what the Picts did to the Convicts.
7 Jun 2012, 12:35 pm
@kinlaw_62(kinlaw_62)-11: “Owen Farrell and Barritt will be licking their lips waiting for your boys to come down their channel.”…
The thing is, when Coetzee and Alberts do just that on their home turf Kings Park down the 10, 12 channel they induce bambi-in-headlights wide eyed stares and meek capitulation from 2m 120 kg no 4 Locks such as bruiser Etsebeth never mind 95 kg 1.82 thereabouts inside backs… If the Sharks pair get on a roll then that 10/12 channel may very much look like a car crash zone…
7 Jun 2012, 12:36 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food(The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food)-105: Cannot fault that… Good one.
7 Jun 2012, 12:36 pm
louis schropnel – Twikki is the authority on stats (ha ha), 123kg and 2.03m. Face the young lad is a monster. He has to start gaining international experience at some stage, if he starts now he will be 24 by next RWC with oodles of experience!!!
7 Jun 2012, 12:37 pm
@Sharksgirl(Sharksgirl)-94:
Many thanks, good luck to you too! I’ll be sure to tell JW of your interest when I see him – maybe he’ll take you out for some kicking practice!!
7 Jun 2012, 12:37 pm
@106 Close yes. I hate Greek food too but a barbeque is good.
7 Jun 2012, 12:39 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-107: You forget – this weekend they won’t have the hard working Keegan Daniel with them. Alberts and Coetzee are going to have a tough time on Saturday – sharing Spies’s workload between the 2 of them. They are both going to have a heckuva lot more to do than what they are used to. I hope Alberts has it in him – really do.
7 Jun 2012, 12:41 pm
kinlaw_62 – I see a good on the horizon this saturday. I am worried about England but that is a good thing, we Bok supporters always want to destroy the NH teams.
But man oh man do i like your flyhalf. I see Farrel as a more rounded flyhalf than the great Wilko. He can run as well as kick and also puts in the big tackles as Wilko did, Wilko slightly edges that one!! I just hope he stays injury free.
Infact my 2 favourite flyhalves at the moment are Priestland and Farrel, tuff young lads but very solid!!!
7 Jun 2012, 12:41 pm
@louis schropnel(louis shrapnel)-103: Are you high, old man? Even your stats has Eben as the heavier of the two, yet you still claim “Flip is heavier than Etzebeth”?
Wikipedia has Etzebeth as 123kg and flip at 118kg.
Wake up, for fck sake.
7 Jun 2012, 12:44 pm
katman #114 – That makes Eben a monster!!! Our monster. Atleast he is starting to gain international experience now, by next RWC he will have 3-4 years under his belt!!
7 Jun 2012, 12:45 pm
@Tourettes(Tourettes)-102: click on the arrow on the top right hand corner of the post you wish to respond to.
7 Jun 2012, 12:45 pm
@Tourettes(Tourettes)-102: Click on the little arrow in the top right-hand corner of every post
7 Jun 2012, 12:45 pm
Boks have nothing to worry about with this team. Should be easy.
7 Jun 2012, 12:46 pm
@pompies2(pompies2)-101: Look, Rumpy Pompy, I determine my rules of engagement on this here Stormer propaganda zone… Not you, okay? No matter how self righteous you may feel…
Interesting that you are attempting to move interaction from Rugby talk to other little issues you may have with yours truly… Suit yourself. But then try not use the “I come here to discuss rugby only” little excuse in future for you may be in danger of straying into hypocrisy…
7 Jun 2012, 12:46 pm
@Sharksgirl(Sharksgirl)-116: @Sharksgirl(Sharksgirl)-116: @Sharksgirl(Sharksgirl)-116:
Test
7 Jun 2012, 12:46 pm
@Sharksgirl(Sharksgirl)-116: Snap!
7 Jun 2012, 12:46 pm
The England team will definately be a threat on Saturday. They are heading in the right direction but will miss Crofts running , Courtney Lawes and Corbisiero in the front row in particular. They are a lot more mobile than i think people know back home. The 8 is a gem of a discovery and the back 3 ..Brown,Foden and Ashton are classy . Their defence is pretty sound too. Looking at the Bokke team from here in UK , its so so conservative and while i understand why he is doing this and going back to basics , surely Lambie should be starting and guys like Aplon should at least be on the bench should we need a plan B and some thing different/a spark. Brussow has been up there with the best ball stealing Flankers , so why drop him ???
I expect England to be good under the high ball and quite solid in the set pieces . If we dont start well and get on top quickly , i fear the worst…….. Hopefully our Line out will fair better than the under 20s did in Stellenbosch.
Im not confident but wish the Boys well.
7 Jun 2012, 12:46 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-114: take a hike lightie.. put Vd Merwe and Etsebeth together on the weight scale
Etsebeth is taller and Flip is heavier..
somebody at Wiki or BB website are either underplaying or overplaying their player profile stats. Vd Merwe is heavier than Etsebeth in the real light of day.. with Etsebeth perhaps 2 inches taller but def not heavier.
7 Jun 2012, 12:46 pm
@Sharksgirl(Sharksgirl)-116:
Thank you.
7 Jun 2012, 12:47 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-107:
We handled Jamie Roberts, George North and Rougerie and we’ll have a plan to deal with Alberts and Frans. Bring it on.
And when Tuilagi and Ben Morgan get to work on your inside defence we’ll see who gets frozen in the headlights. But I guess you don’t know about Morgan do you?
Watch this, England’s 2nd try http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Lt_douDyFc
7 Jun 2012, 12:47 pm
I think many South Africans are underestimating the Red Rose. It gives us great pleasure. We would never underestimate any team.
7 Jun 2012, 12:49 pm
@Tourettes(Tourettes)-126: Not all of us are mate. Some of us regard you as a helluva threat,
7 Jun 2012, 12:50 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-114:
the weather has rendered cunteye’s 1400 nissan inoperable.
he’s on his fourth lavender bong of the day and he/s been scoffing quaaludes like smarties.
Mev Fukkadilly is going to have to pull him down screeching from the ceiling when she gets home from work.
7 Jun 2012, 12:50 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-119: Ja baas.
Look at you all chest out. As you were. I make exceptions to my normal rugby contributions in special cases like yourself and Tac. so lets get back to the rugby chat. Lets hear your critical analysis of both fullbacks? Not mundane pissy comments, but an in depth analysis of their playing style and mental ability to play test rugby.
7 Jun 2012, 12:51 pm
Wales could have beaten SA at the World Cup, but lacked experience. There will be a lot of nerves amongst the new caps in Bok team. The pressure even more as they are playing at home.
7 Jun 2012, 12:52 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food(The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food)-112: I hope so too… When Alberts fires he is like a runaway freight train… But if he doesn’t on Sat then the Boks are in a bit of sh.yte. Not insurmountable but shy.te nevertheless.
Hopefully Meyer can do some sort of Jedi mindtrick with Spies where he thinks 2012 is actually 2006 or 2009 and plays like he did round about then… I still remember a game where he almost single handedly won it for the Boks – against England if I remember correctly…
7 Jun 2012, 12:52 pm
anyway out.. gotta go do a little work with the tsunami on our doorstep.
7 Jun 2012, 12:53 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food(The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food)-127:
I have always enjoyed some posts on this site, so decided to join in for a while.
7 Jun 2012, 12:55 pm
@race of tan(race of tan)-104:
If this game is going to be fought in the trenches then Alberts will have his hands full as Spies clearly isn’t built for that and Coetzee appears to be on the lighter side?
Don’t agree that the Aussies are a top quality side.
Yes they beat us in the World Cup and that’s history.
But apart from winning the Tri Nations last year they’ve had a bad run.
Deans’ record is now hovering around 58% if I’m not mistaken.
Losses vs Scotland, twice. Twice vs England, once vs Samoa and the WC loss vs Ireland.
Under Deans they’ve only beaten the AB’s once, during last year’s TriNations.
7 Jun 2012, 12:55 pm
@kinlaw_62(kinlaw_62)-110:
Needless to say would love that 
7 Jun 2012, 12:56 pm
@wpstormerbok(wpstormerbok)-134:
Correction, Deans’ Wallas beat the AB’s twice under him, the 1st was his 1st game in charge but after that Henry had a 8 game streak or something vs Aussies.
7 Jun 2012, 12:56 pm
@louis schropnel(louis shrapnel)-123: You’re fcked in the old pip, man. Every single site on the interwebs – Bulls, SARU, Stormers, Wikipedia etc – has Eben heavier by between 3 and 6kg, yet you want us to believe that they’re all wrong and ONLY old Skoppie has it right? Seriously? You need some help.
7 Jun 2012, 12:57 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-137:
You also suffer from the dreaded disease I read.
7 Jun 2012, 12:57 pm
@louis schropnel(louis shrapnel)-123: No that’s not correct. Eben is actually very heavy. When I met him at age 19 I was very surprised not just at his height but the amount of “meat on the bones” so to speak. very muscular for any age, never mind 19.
7 Jun 2012, 12:58 pm
wpstormerbok – Mmm i still see the Ozzies as a very cunning and whily team!! They have had our no for the last 2 years!!
Anyway i expect Burger to be back in the Bok mix soon, i don’t understand why everyone hates him, he was one of our best players at RWC!! Gives 100% every game.
7 Jun 2012, 12:59 pm
@Tourettes(Tourettes)-120: It works!
@TooMuchRugby(TooMuchRugby)-121: Almost to the word
7 Jun 2012, 12:59 pm
Howzit WillieVZ.
Just digging up our old discussion.
The French don’t play open and blind but left and right flankers.
Like you I have also had ‘a close look’ at Brown, I watch Heineken cup and Premiership games regularly and have seen Brown for years.
Foden has not been rthe attacking force he should be for a while now. How do you rate his most recent performances in the England shirt? Not really setting the world on fire at test level against decent opposition
is he
Brown’s attacking game has been very strong over the last 2 years, he also played here last they toured, and was one of the few England players to impress, sick and all. Foden on the wing and Brown at the back is the call lancaster has made on form it seems.
Brown has way more aggro too.
7 Jun 2012, 13:00 pm
Found this gem on the interwebs:
http://www.simplysean.co.za/2012/06/06/springbok-team-what-the-past-coaches-think/
To the emotionally volatile out there. This is satire.
7 Jun 2012, 13:00 pm
@Tourettes(Tourettes)-138: Can’t help it – it’s a medical condition. Got a doctor’s note, so I’m okay. The rest of you can fck off.
7 Jun 2012, 13:01 pm
@Sharksgirl(Sharksgirl)-141:
Yes it does! Tourettes attack with the three hits. The faces are for another day though.
7 Jun 2012, 13:01 pm
KATMAN.
Louis S.h.i.t.h.e.a.d knows everything.
7 Jun 2012, 13:02 pm
@kinlaw_62(kinlaw_62)-125: Morgan is not bad and certainly adds more than cart horse Easter who was nothing more than an inferior version of Dean Richards… but without the charisma
…
The inside defence of the Boks will not be a weakness, it will be crowded by Coetzee, F Steyn, Etsebeth, Hougaard with one two guest hits from Beast and some ball picking from Bismarck – its the outside that may have a few chinks and if England had any sense that is where they should target with any front foot ball – should they happen to get any.
7 Jun 2012, 13:02 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-114: Wikipedia also has Japie Mulder at 77kgs….
7 Jun 2012, 13:04 pm
@pompies2(pompies2)-129: I am sure you will be more satisfied in getting “deep” analysis from posters far more “knowledgeable” than this humble contributor…
7 Jun 2012, 13:05 pm
willievz #148 – So does genslin.us have Japie as 77kgs. There is noway Japie was that small, same weight as Aplon!!!! Japie must have been atleast between 88-92kgs, big lad. I saw him once at Foxies in Sandton, he was with James Daltonm, Dalton was huge! Japie was also a big lad, huge flipping legs ek se!!
7 Jun 2012, 13:06 pm
@willievz(willievz)-148: That’s why you’ll notice that I consulted various sources.
Don’t question the katman.
7 Jun 2012, 13:06 pm
@Tourettes(Tourettes)-126: Mostly the mindless Bulls and Sharks supporters who underestimate England
7 Jun 2012, 13:08 pm
@TooMuchRugby(TooMuchRugby)-152:
Yes it is forgone conclusion I read. Better we just pack up and go home now.
7 Jun 2012, 13:09 pm
@willievz(willievz)-148: maybe it’s the prison food…..
7 Jun 2012, 13:09 pm
@hensopper1(hensopper1)-142: So what is Thierry Dusautoir… A “Left” or “Right” flanker?
7 Jun 2012, 13:10 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-131: Spies in wet weather?…….doubt their is a trick on earth never mind outer space a la Star Wars that can put some fire into that belly. This is my main gripe about sugar plum fairies like Spies and Kanko – those that surround them are pretty much f e c k e d, and are expected to divert from their strengths and ‘what they know and do best’ do in order to cover the fairies.
7 Jun 2012, 13:11 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-32:
think you’re right…
lancaster is not the usual pom coach… seems far more understated and actually a decent guy…
i do like the way he’s gone quietly about his business form the time he was appointed interim coach… nothing controversial, no braggadocio… just head down and work… no shouting his mouth off about wanting to be the next england coach… just doing such a fine job it was impossible for them not to appoint him…
stuart lancaster may be an effective coach and a good guy… but it’s a pity he has to play the boks first up… could see his hard work unravel very quickly…
just kidding…
i wouldn’t write the english off… think we’re gonna have a tough match on saturday…
7 Jun 2012, 13:13 pm
Pipe down just tennis.
7 Jun 2012, 13:13 pm
@Kietzphat(Kietzphat)-143: Thanks – very funny – made my day
7 Jun 2012, 13:15 pm
@ufo(ufo)-157:
Most are expecting your Boks to win. What a better platform to just play rugby and you never know what can happen. He wants the talking to be on the field of course.
7 Jun 2012, 13:15 pm
@race of tan(race of tan)-115: Yeah,Jeandre and Eben sure have the credentials to be the blood brothers of the future.
7 Jun 2012, 13:17 pm
@hensopper1(hensopper1)-142: Hi Hensopper
I think Foden is a solid option and would have been my choice 15 for the first test.
If Strettle was fit I am sure that Brown would be on the bench.
7 Jun 2012, 13:17 pm
Some Springbok supporters are like our National Football supporters. We actually think we are better than the results project.
7 Jun 2012, 13:22 pm
@Tourettes(Tourettes)-163: Do they also blame the ref when they lose? We tend to blame refs a lot, even in games we have been outsmarted, outwitted and outmuscled.
7 Jun 2012, 13:22 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food(The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food)-156: If anyone can get Spies to perform well in a defined role for the Boks it is Meyer…
7 Jun 2012, 13:26 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food(The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food)-164:
Yes every official whether running the line or blowing is against England even if the team we were playing beat us 4 – 0. A good example was the game against Germany in the World Cup. We were cursing the linesman for not allowing the goal, but forgot about all the others Germany put past us. We all love our national team now don’t we?
7 Jun 2012, 13:27 pm
@Tourettes(Tourettes)-166: If that goal was allowed and the score was to become 2-2, it would have been a totally different ballgame.
England would have had the mental edge.
7 Jun 2012, 13:28 pm
@Tourettes(Tourettes)-163: You seem about as “English” as a “Yarpie”… “National Football” – what’s that?
7 Jun 2012, 13:30 pm
@willievz(willievz)-167:
Yes but I didn’t want to say that. It would come across as arrogant. I like your thinking though.
7 Jun 2012, 13:32 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-168:
England Soccer (Football) Team. Not sure what you call the sport.
7 Jun 2012, 13:33 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-168:
You mean Yankee’s. They refer to it as Football too.
7 Jun 2012, 13:36 pm
@Tourettes(Tourettes)-170: Hehe… Dont mind me… you’re having fun it seems, “Pom”
7 Jun 2012, 13:38 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-165: I think that ship has sailed. And it seems Heyneke is also losing faith in the ‘superior physical specimen – joke’ agrees, with him selecting Bissie as VC. There will be no happier than I when I look at a Bok squad and see no Spies there. Thing is, his type never gets injured, whereas the brutal and effective ones often are – which means (like now) he is the last fairy left standing and get’s selected by default.
@Tourettes(Tourettes)-170: Soccer
7 Jun 2012, 13:41 pm
Yanks call it soccer. Only us and them, it seems.
7 Jun 2012, 13:42 pm
On its face the Poms looked to pay too much respect for Morne Styen’s @ Hougaard’s tactical and up & under kicking, or so it seemed?
I think the Poms actually looking to bank on these kicks by fielding 3 counter attacking backs who can kick out of hand too, targeting Habana, JP and Kirchner!
Did I detect the inside touch of Catt and Barritt here
7 Jun 2012, 13:45 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food(The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food)-173:
Do you watch a lot of Soccer? South Africa have a few good players too. Our favourite was Lucas Redeby. He was very good.
7 Jun 2012, 13:47 pm
I haven’t seen any articles by Keohane in a while now.
And where’s KeoTV?
7 Jun 2012, 13:58 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-154: That’s what I was thinking, but well put.
7 Jun 2012, 14:00 pm
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-177:
Keep rubbing it !
You know the story about the skorpion and the Lions, don’t you?
if Keo goes down, so will the site which gives your qualified, educated, enlightening opinion a free stage
7 Jun 2012, 14:00 pm
He doesn’t have those privileges yet.
7 Jun 2012, 14:01 pm
Selecting young Joe Maher will please the Beast.
I would never underestimate these poms. Especially when everyone expects them to lose.
Barritt will be heavily motivted for this game.
7 Jun 2012, 14:04 pm
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-177: I’ve been watching Keo TV but all I see is snow.
7 Jun 2012, 14:05 pm
@Hondo(Hondo)-179:
Don’t worry Tork Craft and Alpen “drills for professional” will keep the site afloat.
I wonder if anyone on this site has ever bought their products subconsciously.
7 Jun 2012, 14:09 pm
@greatest13gerber(greatest13gerber)-181: Yeah,Barritt was never considered for higher honours here,and Catt is talking up the physicality of the boks,so the poms will bring it for sure,but I think our side will have too much for them,gonna be a close call tho’
7 Jun 2012, 14:11 pm
@Jeraldjay(Jeraldjay)-183: Not to mention the Cybermetals coins. And now James Dalton wants me on his team, apparently. I’m not even sure what team he bats for.
7 Jun 2012, 14:11 pm
@Jeraldjay(Jeraldjay)-183:
I get my hole solution from ALPEN.
And I went to the hardware store yesterday and powered up my tools with Tork Craft power tool accessories.
7 Jun 2012, 14:19 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-185:
I saw James Dalton in Tokai the other day. He had his boy with him and has moved to Cape Town permanently.
James Dalton and keeping the Planet green just don’t gel.
7 Jun 2012, 14:28 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-155:
The french use almost 3 open side flanks. Generally go fro mobile lightweight but athletic looseforwards.
Harinordoquy is the best lineout exponent in the world bar none. And he is not even a lock
7 Jun 2012, 14:28 pm
167…on what basis would you say England would have had the mental edge……they couldn’t bloody defend. a few days later the huns put 4 past messi and his argies . these new German kids are the business who i fancy for the wc in Brazil.
7 Jun 2012, 14:33 pm
@Jeraldjay(Jeraldjay)-183:
A good question, certainly not me buying it
No idea how all that promotion and commercials working in the IT era, however a recent survey showed that more than 80% of the USA Pro basketball TV watchers are not falling into the ‘willing and able customers’ category’, in other words the promoters and sponors can’t possibly see a fair return in sales of their products!
7 Jun 2012, 14:45 pm
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-186:
Disgusting
7 Jun 2012, 14:48 pm
James Daton in Cape Town???
This is not good for property prices in the area.
7 Jun 2012, 14:51 pm
Wptid is the complete tool solution
7 Jun 2012, 14:54 pm
@Tourettes(Tourettes)-130:
“There will be a lot of nerves amongst the new caps in Bok team.”
You don’t know Eben… He does not get nervous…
Eben is so tough Chuck Norris cancelled his trip to Cape Town…
Sylvester Stallone used to speak out of both sides of his mouth until Eben klapped him…
Eben is so tough that the Tokolosh sleeps with its bed on bricks…
(Or in English)… The Boogyman looks under its bed and in its cupboards to make sure Eben is not there…
When Eben goes swimming in False Bay… the Great White Sharks take out their boards and pretend to be surfers…
Cape Town doesn’t have earthquakes because Eben put his foot down… and asked the Earth if it was ready to rumble… it said no!
Now Eben eats his food from tectonic plates…!
7 Jun 2012, 14:55 pm
@the artist formerly known as gunther(gunther)-192: There goes the neighbourhood. Maybe he’s on the witness relocation program.
7 Jun 2012, 14:58 pm
@stormersboy(stormersboy)-195:
@the artist formerly known as gunther(gunther)-192:
now we know why they’ve cut down the tokai plantations… makes it easier for the police surveillance teams…
7 Jun 2012, 15:02 pm
@greatest13gerber(greatest13gerber)-188: So… Dusautoir is one of “3 open sides”? On which side… Left or Right?
Sheezus, some of you okes and your theories….
7 Jun 2012, 15:05 pm
Bullet is going to drive the Gak prices through the roof.
Keo won’t be happy
7 Jun 2012, 15:06 pm
@the artist formerly known as gunther(gunther)-193:
7 Jun 2012, 15:16 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-197:
I am pretty sure Dusatoir is considered an opensider, and plays in 6.
Don’t believe the others
7 Jun 2012, 15:21 pm
@ufo(ufo)-194: Do you like Eben by any chance?
7 Jun 2012, 15:30 pm
I just can’t see us losing
But I said the same with the Bulls/Stormers game
7 Jun 2012, 15:31 pm
losing
Hahahaaha
7 Jun 2012, 15:45 pm
@LightZone(LightZone)-201:
the only two people on record as not liking eben are chuck and sylvester… and just look at them now…
chuck used to be 6’4′ now he’s only 5’8″…
and rambo only has the use of one side of his face…
now they too have both ‘liked’ his Facebook page…
if you don’t like him… for your own safety… please don’t admit to it here… just pull your ear… that’s the signal that people who don’t Eben use to identify each other… as they’re too scared to say it out loud…
just look at all the rugby players who tug their ears as they run onto the field…
7 Jun 2012, 15:47 pm
@ufo(ufo)-204:
if Eben reads your comments your nic will be changed to
LightZero : EbenOne
7 Jun 2012, 15:50 pm
@elmer(elmer)-122:
This is the thing though. Everyone in Europe still thinks of 2009 Brussow. He has not had the same impact this season at all. If he did he would’ve been in the team. For all these Pommies on here smugly proclaiming that “they are happy Brussow is not in the team” I can guarantee you they haven’t seen one S15 game this year and their opinion is not worth much on that particular matter.
7 Jun 2012, 15:51 pm
I havent seen any games the Poms played since the world cup… Are they any good?
If they beat Wales, in the 6nations, who is a great team, then they must be pretty good. The Welsh almost won against the boks the past 3/4 games! Then again we lost against Scotland at one point…
I think if the boks can keep their mistakes to a minimum and actually implement the gameplan perfectly they should win comfortably …?
7 Jun 2012, 15:57 pm
@ufo(ufo)-204: @ufo(ufo)-205: hahahahaha
the real answer should probably read: “Like him? LIKE him? Are you CRAZY??!!! I LOVE HIM!!” So obviously we now have Houston_love_Bakkies_Botha as well as UFO_loves_Eben.
I do enjoy his playing as well.
7 Jun 2012, 16:00 pm
@LightZone(LightZone)-208:
yeah… if he can stay injury free it’s gonna be fun watching his career unfold over the next decade or so…
7 Jun 2012, 16:10 pm
If Eben has any characteristics of his notorious family Cliffie and Skattie, then the English are in for a nasty surprise
7 Jun 2012, 16:10 pm
@ufo(ufo)-209: Let’s hope he does. The last time we had a dominant lock it was Hennie Bekker and WP beat all-comers…ok yes there were other performers in the team as well BUT…
7 Jun 2012, 16:15 pm
@LightZone(LightZone)-211: Don’t forget Schalk Snr, Neil Hugo, Div Visser.
7 Jun 2012, 16:17 pm
@TooMuchRugby(TooMuchRugby)-210:
@LightZone(LightZone)-211:
enough silliness from me now…
but yes… he is a special talent imo…
loved the way in the highlanders game when he was pinned down on their side of a ruck and two of their players used the opportunity to go charging in on him… with just head head and shoulders sticking out and totally unable to defend himself…
they stand back to admire the effect of their charge and he looks up and asks them if that’s all they got… and motions them to try again…
very tough stuff and great character from a 20 year old…
7 Jun 2012, 16:18 pm
@Michael(mikeybrass)-212: That’s why i said there were other performers. Is it coincidence that the dominance of Bulls coincided with Bakkies being dominant?
7 Jun 2012, 16:18 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-197:
he is open side. But all the frogs loosies are fetchers!
7 Jun 2012, 16:19 pm
@Michael(mikeybrass)-212:
absolutely mikey…
but they weren’t as ready or matured at 20 years old…
7 Jun 2012, 16:21 pm
@Michael(mikeybrass)-212:
not my most logical post… but you get my point…
7 Jun 2012, 16:22 pm
@LightZone(LightZone)-214: I never had the pleasure of watching Bekker play. I saw Schalk in the ’86 series and watched the other two mentioned. Was Bekker really better than all three of them, who were awesome?
@ufo(ufo)-216: Eben is a freak
7 Jun 2012, 16:23 pm
@ufo(ufo_loves_eben_etzebeth)-209:
your admiration for the boy is admirable. i hope he lives the hype and some. with the loss of so many greats we needed a hero to rise.
7 Jun 2012, 16:27 pm
@houston, we have a problem…(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-219:
hehehe…
i think you’ll be changing your own nic soon…!!
what hype…?
my comments on an anonymous blog don’t amount to hype…
but yes… let’s hope he can deliver on the obvious potential he has…
7 Jun 2012, 16:28 pm
@ufo(i_love_u_eben_etzebeth)-213:
i expect a great showing from him, no doubt
but be mindful that he needs a great locking partner to go with the combo
at provincial and national level.
hope hm will solve this riddlle for the unions.
7 Jun 2012, 16:28 pm
@houston, we have a problem…(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-219:
i just hope his shoulder is right…!!
7 Jun 2012, 16:30 pm
@ufo(ufo)-220:
7 Jun 2012, 16:35 pm
@ufo(ufo)-222:
true.
hm’s not one to risk players though, specially a 20 year old kid. so its probably more overconcern and a safety first approach than a case of them hiding an actual injury.
sadly, i can say with confidence this is a practise at the stormers and sharks it seems.
if thats the csae then take him off early.
7 Jun 2012, 16:35 pm
@houston, we have a problem…(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-221:
two words
quinn roux
7 Jun 2012, 16:38 pm
@Michael(mikeybrass)-218:
Div was one of the best locks we’ve produced. Bekker was a good lineout player and in the open, but an absolute ***** elsewhere. His lineout opponents used to regularly wait for him take the ball, then turn him when he came down.
7 Jun 2012, 16:38 pm
@Michael(mikeybrass)-218: To me Hennie Bekker was the epitome of a lock at the time. He was mobile where others were not. Much like his son these days. He was much fiercer though it might be time and romanticism that might be clouding my memory on that one.
7 Jun 2012, 16:40 pm
How did Bekker rate compared to the great Adolf Malan?
7 Jun 2012, 16:40 pm
@houston, we have a problem…(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-224:
i don’t blame the coaches… and it’s pretty much all coaches that do this…
it’s very tough to rest a fit n healthy player when they’ve got the next match to win…
most rotations or rests for players in super rugby this year have been injury enforced… either before or during the season…
i blame sanzar for the way they are pushing more and more games into the schedule…
we’ve all had this conversation before… and i’d rather have fewer teams in the super comp… playing fewer games… with more quality players and more quality rugby on display…
7 Jun 2012, 16:42 pm
@LightZone(LightZone)-227: Everyone has different memories and opinions so I’m not going into who was better or not. I personally thought Bekker was good but that’s just me.
7 Jun 2012, 16:43 pm
@David(David)-226:
p u s s y c a t.
7 Jun 2012, 16:45 pm
@ufo(ufo)-229: This is why I wonder what will happen should we beat England 3-0 and by huge margins.
7 Jun 2012, 16:48 pm
@Michael(mikeybrass)-228:
hennie was an excellent physical and mobile lock… schalk senior maybe not quite as mobile but just as physical… if not more so… div visser too was physical and quite mobile…..
neil hugo and adolf malan were both mobile but much leaner…
(as far as my recollections go…)
pity rugby lovers were deprived of seeing these guys play… and pity these guys weren’t able to showcase themselves to a wider audience…
7 Jun 2012, 16:49 pm
@Michael(mikeybrass)-228:
Both were lineout specialists with Bekker better in the loose. I must admit I never really rated Malan outside of his lineout work.
7 Jun 2012, 16:52 pm
@ufo(ufo)-233:
I don’t believe we ever saw the best of Div when his career was cut short with the tragic death of his child.
7 Jun 2012, 16:54 pm
@ufo(ufo)-233: Seems we have similar opinions on the players of yore. Serves nobody to compare different eras though. Although I agree with it I think it is a pity the Boks could not play during those days. We would’ve just stayed top ever since I think. Springboks may have been the All Blacks of today.
7 Jun 2012, 16:55 pm
@David(David)-226: I remember Hennie Bekker in a provincial match (versus Transvaal, I think) taking the ball from a deep kick off and sprinting all the way down the touchline to score. He must’ve beaten at least nine defenders: speed, hand-offs and strength. Like his son, I always thought he would become the greatest ever, better than Frik du Preez at least, but he never reached the heights I thought he would. He had limited opportunities though with SA being isolated then.
Adolf Malan never really impressed me, except for his magnificant lineout work. Very tall, a little skinny for a lockforward, a bit like Ross Skeate, but he really could jump.
7 Jun 2012, 16:56 pm
@LightZone(LightZone)-232:
i don’t think we’ll beat them 3:nil or by huge margins…
the low profile approach this english team has taken should jangle a few bells for the boks and us supporters… and with their saffa players who know our guys and have points to prove… this is going to be a lot closer and tougher than many of us are giving them credit for…
i think we (as fans) are being quite arrogant and waaay too complacent… i’m confident heyneke and the players are taken it a lot more seriously and giving the poms a lot more respect than we fans are…
i expect a 2:1 result to us… and even if it is 3:1… the scores will be a lot closer than any of us expect…
7 Jun 2012, 16:57 pm
@David(David)-235:
indeed david…
helluva player…
7 Jun 2012, 17:02 pm
@LightZone(LightZone)-236:
year… comparisons of different era’s are fun but meaningless…
but i do agree that had we competed then we would have dominated the AB lie they dominate us today… (which heyneke is going to change)
we had world class players then in almost every position… special players too numerous to mention…
and quite possibly could have kept that dominance running… we certainly have always had the players… just our coaches have not always selected the best players… for various reasons…
but i’m backing heyneke to recapture that dominance…
7 Jun 2012, 17:05 pm
cold wet night in cape town…
time to batten down the hatches…
cheers all…
7 Jun 2012, 17:07 pm
@ufo(ufo)-238: Would be difficult to beat them 3-1 I’d say
I think it will be tighter than we expect BUT what IF. Or even if we should win but not huge margins? Every coach wants to keep a winning team…for instance would he change Kirchner? IF Bekker recovers will he replace Kruger? Possibly Duane will come in but will Coetzee or Alberts drop out for Schalk or Siya? I don’t see Aplon coming in soon. Habits form extremely quickly amongst coaches.
7 Jun 2012, 17:08 pm
@LightZone(LightZone)-236:
Actually, Bekker and Div played against NZ on the ill fated ’81 tour, and Schalk against England in ’84 partnering Vleis Visagie.
7 Jun 2012, 17:08 pm
Etzebeth reminds me a bit of Theuns Stoffberg, another old generation lock. He also played at 7, very fast, athletic and aggressive. (Had a terrible stutter…) I rate Stoffberg higher than Bekker. Stoffberg played with Klippies Kritzinger, Johan de Bruyn (had a glass eye)and Kleintjie Grobler, all in the Free State team. They were terrifying together.
7 Jun 2012, 17:14 pm
@David(David)-243: Yes I know they played together but that was in a totally different era right? Actually they played off each other. I just think that romanticism of one’s favourites cloud the memory to discuss their attributes such a long time distant. That NZ tour is now 31 years ago!
7 Jun 2012, 17:14 pm
HEAVENS GAME.
Dusatoir scrums on the left at every scrum. No 6 A ‘loosehead flank’ as it would read on my teamsheet at school.
The French National team disregard the openside scrumming dynamic, but certainly do not select 3 opensides as suggested elsewhere on this thread. Currewnt French trio has a strong lineout emphasis, as they normally do. Bonaire and Harinordiquy are never openside type players!
They take the balance of their loose trio very seriously but see the scrum differently.
One argument says that having the same flank on the same side of the scrum all game improves scrum synergy, and that the defensive and attacking options are different either way.
IMO the French could teach us all a thing or 2 about the scrum.
7 Jun 2012, 17:17 pm
@LightZone(LightZone)-242:
The coach HAS to see a winning culture through the lens of a rotational selection system. Overplaying any player will result in crucial untimely injuries. Building an inclusive squad system is the fine art of man management. When player in a squad ALL get their chance and understand WHY and WHEN, that is when they see the merits of their abilities and where they have to improve to match their competition. Siya, Schalk and Duane will see action in the Championship. But the y will need to show their best game in the last rounds of the S15. Spies, Kanko – are living on borrowed time.
7 Jun 2012, 17:18 pm
David.
Remember Louis Moolman?
Did he ever loose a lineout ball at no 2, and in the era of no lifting.
7 Jun 2012, 17:20 pm
@hensopper1(hensopper1)-248: I remember his beard!
7 Jun 2012, 17:21 pm
@LightZone(LightZone)-245:
Yes, it’s impossible to judge players from different eras against each other, but I still have memories of the extent that Div impressed me. He was one of those forwards who provided the impetus that led the rest of the pack. He was also one of the first who specialised in contesting the ball from his own sides kick off.
7 Jun 2012, 17:24 pm
What a traitor Barritt is! I hope Frans uses him as a speed bump on the way to the tryline! Disgusted at the sight of seeing Barritt playing for the Poms!
7 Jun 2012, 17:24 pm
@hensopper1(hensopper1)-246: At times the French 8 also “plays to the ball” as we understand the openside/fetcher role leading to the comment about 3 opensides I suppose. The fact the flanks scrum same side all match may lead one to think 2 openside flanks. I also think the way the French scrum makes more sense to cohesion. I feel that the openside only comes into play outside the scrum, as the team can have different attacking options at the scrum opposed to the rucks.
7 Jun 2012, 17:33 pm
@Jinx2(Jinx2)-247: Absolutely Jinx. We disregard the power of our voices though. The immense pressure fans can put on a coach to keep winning even when they see his logic in rotation or totally replacing a player can be numbing. Even Nick Mallett felt the pressure to keep winning yet he set a SA record for most wins on the trot. Carel was vilified during his totally logical approach to transforming our game. Every coach since Andre Markgraaff changed the way they coached from when they started. Why would HM be different? I hope he WILL be but what if he’s NOT?
7 Jun 2012, 17:33 pm
@Sydney Shark(JayDaFiveOh)-251:
The national coaching setup failed Barritt. If this was Australia or New Zealand he would have been given a chance ahead of Wynand Olivier , Meyer Bosman and Adi Jacobs. Also didn’t help that the Jean Div / Jaque Fourie combo was going strong when he was playing well.
7 Jun 2012, 17:44 pm
@wp_boytjie(wp_boytjie)-254: You are totally correct.
7 Jun 2012, 17:45 pm
everyone is pushing the point that England only lost 1 game during the 6N, but lets not forget that they squeaked out of trouble against Scotland and Italy (!) courtesy of two fortuitous Charlie Hodgsen charge down tries… hardly convincing stuff.
7 Jun 2012, 17:45 pm
@hensopper1(hensopper1)-246:
Knowledgeable poster…Very good.
Respect… (along with WillieVS, CoachPete and a couple of others – the Keo “Coach” Proper Rugger Loving technical Debate Brigade…)
7 Jun 2012, 18:02 pm
@Sydney Shark(JayDaFiveOh)-251: Don’t be an idiot. The guy was never going to make a Bok side, so he headed of to England, worked hard and eventually made the English side. These guys are professionals – this is how they make their living.
Are you going to say now to a job opportunity in Sydney or London?
At least he never bad mouthed his country of origin like some of our other ex-countrymen
7 Jun 2012, 18:02 pm
now = no
7 Jun 2012, 18:08 pm
Heavens Game.
Cheers mate, love the chat here! Some posters real aggro, maybe a few Karatewaters influenced!
Finfan.
Tight curley dark hair. A grafting beast of a man. Sadly passed away fairlyrecently. The unsung hero many a Blue Bulls and Bok pack. Dont think the smile muscels on his face worked. I believe his English was’nt very delicous, prompting Rob Louw to ‘help’ him by telling him that condom was the word for headache tablet when he was in a pharmacy in New Zealand in 81.
Louw must have been an incredibly brave man. I think Mools had more of a far
Northern Transvaal Bosveld humour about that type of thing.
7 Jun 2012, 18:16 pm
@hensopper1(hensopper1)-260: Put my hand up… Karatewater central.
But respect certain true rugger lovers and nonebullshitter types…
7 Jun 2012, 18:34 pm
Nothing wrong with KarateWater. Nothing at all,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
7 Jun 2012, 19:04 pm
What’s this an Eben love-in
7 Jun 2012, 19:14 pm
@Sharksgirl(Sharksgirl)-135:
I’ll arrange it then!
7 Jun 2012, 19:17 pm
@STBUR(STBUR)-206:
I can guarantee you I’ve seen every S15 game he’s played in this season, and I still think he’ll be sorely missed.
8 Jun 2012, 01:56 am
@wp_boytjie(wp_boytjie)-254: Barritt lifted the IRB Nations Cup for the Emerging Springboks but they weren’t registered as SA’s second team so he was able to transfer his allegiance. Good player and he won’t be a speedbump for anyone.
8 Jun 2012, 02:30 am
@Sydney Shark(JayDaFiveOh)-251:
That’s a bit rich coming from an ex-pat living in Sydney and pledging allegiance to an Australian company innit?
Good on Brad and Mouritz… they gave it a shot in RSA… and then moved on for more opportunity…
@Big Hit(Big Hit)-266:
Definitely not… he can get his back-line away quite nicely and is huge on defence… from Waylon Murray to Tuilagi on his outside…
Well worth a punt for you mate… bookies had England @$3.65 at one stage!
8 Jun 2012, 05:36 am
@bryce_in_oz(bryce_in_oz)-267: I will never support Aus or any other country over the Springboks as long as I’m still breathing!!! I want nothing more than a strong brand of rugby to emerge from SA in the coming months and years and I know how to sing my anthem properly which is more than could be said about some of the Aussies and Kiwis!
8 Jun 2012, 06:01 am
@Sydney Shark(JayDaFiveOh)-268:
I think you missing the point…
8 Jun 2012, 08:07 am
@Slartibartfast(Slartibartfast)-269:
Yep…
8 Jun 2012, 11:29 am
@Sydney Shark(JayDaFiveOh)-268: Whats singing a national anthem got to do with watching a game of rugby? If you want to sing, then sing. If you want to sing properly then sing properly. Me, I want to see the best of my country beat the best of another country. I’ll do my singing later on at the bar after we’ve won.
8 Jun 2012, 13:05 pm
What is lancaster thinking in selecting ben on the wing.mike is good on hIgh balls only his running lines are not convincing for me
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