All in to blunt Steyn’s threat
8 Jun 2012
Brad Barritt says nullifying Frans Steyn will require a collective effort not an individual one.
The Springboks have made no secret about their intention to attack England’s 10-12 axis of Owen Farrell and Barritt, with key strike runners – the most prominent back in that group being Steyn – set to test their defensive resolve.
Much of the Springboks’ success will rest on how Steyn fares in this primary role, but Barritt, a team-mate of Steyn’s at the Sharks before he opted to continue his career in England in late 2008, doesn’t feel burdened by the challenge at hand. It is a weight he says will be shared.
‘If they want to give away their tactics that’s their prerogative,’ Barritt said. ‘Gainline dominance is obviously important to the way they want to play. Ultimately it will be a collective effort in stopping [Steyn]. If their forwards can’t get front foot ball it is going to make it a hard day [for Steyn].
‘But really we’ve been focusing on ourselves and not too concerned about what they will do. We’ll try to impose ourselves on them by holding on to possession.’
England of course have a notable wrecking ball of their own in Manu Tuilagi, who impressed in the Six Nations and who is equally adept at physically dominating his opponents as he is at dazzling with his quick feet, good hands and appreciable ball skills.
Read SA Rugby magazine’s in-depth interview with Barritt
If England manage to boss the gainline and, particularly, the set pieces, against a Springbok side that will be big on defensive aggression but still seeking synergy under new structures, Tuilagi will have opportunities to isolate his counterpart Jean de Villiers, who has had limited experience at outside centre. Barritt experienced the same positional shift during the Six Nations and explained the biggest challenges De Villiers will encounter.
‘Defensively there is a a different feel about it. You have to react more instinctively because you don’t have that protection on the inside. He is very experienced and I’m sure he’ll adapt,’ he said. ‘On attack you need to be the team’s width and show that you are a running threat. Ultimately playing 12 open your eyes to what is available outside of you.’
England haven’t won in South Africa in 12 years and Barritt conceded that they were underdogs once more. However, he pointed to them defying expectations previously and says they are determined to do this once more. ‘We aren’t daunted by that tag. That was the tag for most of the Six Nations [England lost just one game].’
By Ryan Vrede, in Durban
Follow Ryan on Twitter
Follow SA Rugby magazine on Twitter
176 Comments
7 Jun 2012, 16:26 pm
I remember the disappointment of the Sharks fans when F.Steyn was selected ahead of Barritt at 12 to play the Tahs in the 2008 S14 semi.
This disappointment was only aired after the game, as many supported the decision to install F.Steyn at 12.
How the times have changed…
7 Jun 2012, 16:28 pm
I hope Frans Steyn is fit and ready! Last year he did look slighlty over weight!
7 Jun 2012, 16:33 pm
Go Bokke.
@race of tan(race of tan)-2: Fransie is looking in very good shape compared to when he came home just before the WC last year. Even then over weight he was still our best player in the wc.
7 Jun 2012, 16:35 pm
‘England haven’t won is South Africa in 12 years ‘
Id like to know when last England sent over their full strength side for the June internationals?
I think this is going to be a very different Eng/Bok test series from what we are used to seeing on SA soil.
Going to be a lot tougher.
7 Jun 2012, 16:41 pm
@John Galt(John Galt)-4: we dont count strength on tours, how often have we sent out-on-their-feet teams to the NH on end of year tours?
do we get credit for that when we count wins/losses then?
nope.
7 Jun 2012, 16:49 pm
Geez, England management must be having sleepless nights trying to analyse the Bok gameplan….. I know a team has to play to it s strengths…However, sometimes Plan B is needed… will be intertesting at least…Go Bulle.. I mean Bokke
7 Jun 2012, 16:53 pm
@John Galt(John Galt)-4: Definitely will be a lot tougher. A lot more interested in us playing a full strength side than when they send a under strength side here.
7 Jun 2012, 16:54 pm
@roobarb2(roobarb2)-5:
At least its our first team that usually gets sent to on these NH tours. Even if there is a perception that they are worn out.
The poms usually send out-on-their-feet second stringers. Remembering that this is the end of their season.
7 Jun 2012, 16:56 pm
@line break(line break)-6: Think they were looking some of the Bulls games. Well what I read on Sports24.
7 Jun 2012, 16:57 pm
What position has Frans been playing in Europe this season?
7 Jun 2012, 16:58 pm
England have only played the Boks once in South Africa since they beat us here in 2000, which was the 2007 two-test series, when we klapped their ‘b’ team by 50 points on both occasions. So saying that they ‘haven’t won a test in South Africa in 12 years’ is slightly disengenous.
7 Jun 2012, 17:08 pm
@Puma(Puma)-3: Agreed – F Steyn’s distribution skills at 12 were phenominal at the WC, let a lone the long range kicks he can convert in close games (M Steyn didn’t go for the one 55m penalty as it was out of range for him). I point to his absence for the loss against the Wallabies (screw the ref – we should have won the game even with his controversial decisions).
With regards to this boring game plan everyone thinks HM is going to implement, who knows…maybe he’s fooling everyone and the boks will come out running everything!
7 Jun 2012, 17:28 pm
Heyneke will have to get the results right from the start to justify his blue bok squad.
7 Jun 2012, 17:41 pm
@GermanBok(Marty)-12: We sure did miss Fransie in that quarter that is for sure. However, we should still have won it had it not been for the shameful reffing by Lawrence.
Well you know I had not even given it a tought that we may run it? We never know, but with the rain forecast I expect a tight game. Think we will play it safe for this test anyhow, just not enough time to prepare. Meyer has only really had the team for 5 days to be fair. We just may see a different game plan at Ellis Park once we have had a game together. Should be dry up there as well.
7 Jun 2012, 17:41 pm
@Puma(Puma)-14: tought = thought
7 Jun 2012, 17:44 pm
@GermanBok(Marty)-12:
A refreshing idea. Let’s hope. I am sure all SA S15 franchises must be very nervous about a “moer hulle” gameplan.
7 Jun 2012, 17:46 pm
@doc 15(doc 15)-11: So true doc. I see this happens rather often. Why not just say …in so many games…
7 Jun 2012, 17:51 pm
@willievz(willievz)-1:
I still think it was a stupid move at the time.
7 Jun 2012, 17:51 pm
@Jinx2(Jinx2)-16: Yes for sure, so hoping no injuries.
7 Jun 2012, 17:57 pm
@John Galt(John Galt)-4:
It’s an embarrassment, really, such a kind of bombastic, made up nonsense.
Truly 3rd world sub standards of journalism
7 Jun 2012, 17:58 pm
“Brad Barritt says nullifying Frans Steyn will require a collective effort not an individual one”
Sounds like an excuse already, the game hasn’t even started yet
7 Jun 2012, 17:58 pm
Oh here we go again. The messiah, the last bastion of hope. Funny he couldnt do anything against top opposition when he played against them. I remember him having a horrid Tri Nations a couple of years ago when Jean was injured, knocking on balls, slipping tackles. Please spare us. Fransie should be the last thing the English should worry about. Oerrated Guppie. He’ll prove his worth playing for the Sharks and the Boks. Now there’s nowehere to hide!
7 Jun 2012, 18:00 pm
Coach Lancaster.
Sounds more like an delivery truck full of cheese than a rugby coach
7 Jun 2012, 18:02 pm
@roobarb2(roobarb2)-5:
The EOYT format required now a full (available) strenght squad with matching financial clauses to ensure it
The 2007 tour included maybe one or two from the Poms’ RWC squad and it was an exception
7 Jun 2012, 18:03 pm
@NoRugbyGuru_0_(RugbyGuru_0_)-23:
Mind the gap. Lancaster is a down to earth, humble family guy. Unlike his stuck up predecessors.
7 Jun 2012, 18:04 pm
When is the last time ENG beat us at Twickenham?
The arrogance from the poms urks me.
If it doesn’t rain on match day then ENG will get their arses kicked.
7 Jun 2012, 18:07 pm
Coenie in a Bok jersey. Best image ever!
7 Jun 2012, 18:08 pm
@ Jinx,
I don’t know him personally but ENG in general are arrogant cnuts.
7 Jun 2012, 18:09 pm
John Smit not in Bok jersey. Heavenly image
7 Jun 2012, 18:11 pm
@NoRugbyGuru_0_(RugbyGuru_0_)-28:
Their rugby culture, in particular
Bunch of snobs.
In the North the people are very mellow. Mince pies and curly fries.
7 Jun 2012, 18:12 pm
I see on twitter someoen made this comment which is farking hikkarious
“John Smit, the only h00ker Keohane didn’t have”
7 Jun 2012, 18:12 pm
@Puma(Puma)-14:
Bryce Lawrence had a shameful refereeing at Durban in 2009 when he helped the Boks to beat the British Lions?
No one here protested then, no one will protest if Steve Walsh will do the same on Saturday?
A half decent Boks Team should have squashed the Aussies on that day anyway
But they didn’t,,,,
7 Jun 2012, 18:18 pm
I wonder how many times we going to hear “steyn to steyn”
Playing next to each other.
Sounds like Rock&Roll band
7 Jun 2012, 18:23 pm
I saw Kyknet had piece on Darren Scott, never knew all that personal stuff about him.
Good bloke, I’m happy he’s on his feet again with Ballz radio.
7 Jun 2012, 18:34 pm
@NoRugbyGuru_0_(RugbyGuru_0_)-33: sounds more like they in the clothing business, there is a steyn next to a steyn
7 Jun 2012, 18:35 pm
@Hondo(Hondo)-32: so it wasnt the lack of non white players that made us win on that occasion?? but this time the ref helped us>> bwahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
7 Jun 2012, 18:38 pm
@ sharkslover,
Hondo loves the look of the bench, I wonder why?
7 Jun 2012, 18:45 pm
Clive Woodward did everything he could to avoid playing in SA after they bagged that win in Bloem. Although the Boks went up north every year with a depleated side to get slapped around by England, we never had the pleasure of their company for a long time leading up to their ball hair win in Aus.
Could it be that Sir Clive thought that exposing his team to the nasty old Boks at home would be damaging to English confidence.
Maybe he desperately wanted to tour the republic but the BIg Boys on the IRB scheduled the games in this way. It just seemed that over a long period of Time the Boks played at Twickers very regularly, but hardly ever had the home advantage.
I like this 3 test plus midweek games very much.
I wish we could do the same. Play England 3 times, maybe convince them to play atr least one game up north away from the confines of LandRovers, Port and tweed at the Twickers car park, and maybe think about allowing Northerners access to their National team.
Midweek games could be against English clubs, The Boks have already done this, losing to Saracens and Leicester.
Playing one offs up there seems a waste of time. Series build a momentum of interest.
Just a thought.
7 Jun 2012, 18:58 pm
Give Steyn a blunt and he will be smokin’
7 Jun 2012, 19:08 pm
@NoRugbyGuru_0_(RugbyGuru_0_)-28:
You making us look timid. I won’t comment on such a statement.
7 Jun 2012, 19:10 pm
Frans Steyn was undoubtably the only influencial player in the Bok team at the RWC. It must have been soul destroying for the team whe he was injured.
The kid has an X-factor in the midfield that is only matched by the Kiwi teams.
7 Jun 2012, 19:13 pm
Who will win the first Test at Kings Park?
Boks by 1-7
270
Boks by 8-14
262
England by 1-7
115
Boks by 15-plus
72
England by 8-14
42
England by 15-plus
22
I check the Stormsader fans are hoping for an England victory…
7 Jun 2012, 19:13 pm
South Africa playing at home are firm favourites.
7 Jun 2012, 19:31 pm
@Sharks fans are genuine Bok supporters. Stormers support England.(Predawn)-42:
predawn
7 Jun 2012, 19:33 pm
@Sharks fans are genuine Bok supporters. Stormers support England.(Predawn)-42:
When you first started with the Stormers are anti Boks charade I found it funny as I thought you were clearly taking the pis(s). then after a few days it became mildly irritating as I thought you were overplaying it a bit. But now you just come across as a tool.
It’s time for you to move on to a new act buddy, this punchline is wering a bit thin now.
7 Jun 2012, 19:41 pm
Har har har de har Predawn
7 Jun 2012, 19:41 pm
@Golden Boy(Golden Boy)-45: why not challenge you stormer mate re the insulting nic re the sharks and dog food??
7 Jun 2012, 19:43 pm
Oh hell Predawn has now facing the wrath of Dawn
7 Jun 2012, 19:51 pm
I have to say I look at this England team and see Barritt and Botha and it is just kinda pathetic. They could have had Matt Stevens as well making it 3. That would be 1/5 of the team SA born, bred and rugby trained.
So it just kinda looks pathetic.
Barritt and Botha would not have ever SMELT a Bok jersey. So what is all the fuss about? Barritt is not and has never been close to Steyn’s class, nor ever even near Jean’s kind of experience and history. He is an average player that on the odd occasions has played above his ability. They are simply NOT world class.
This goes for MOST of the English team.
Sure, if the rusty boks with a few newbies don’t arrive to play, they will MAYBE lose. But even then for the English to even HOPE of winning their average players and average team will need to play together like they have never played before.
It is as simple as that for them. Good luck for then if they manage to do it and the rusty boks arrive and do not play to their potential.
BUT if the Boks do arrive and get a head of steam, then this very average English outfit will get blown off the park.
And the simple reason is that AVERAGE players like Barritt and Botha who could not make it in SA know that the Steyn et al are in a league that they will never be able to reach. Mentally they know this.
7 Jun 2012, 19:53 pm
@sharks_lover(sharks_lover)-47:
Sorry S_L but I do not support the Stormers…but thank you for trying to place me in a box so that you could hurl insults..seems things are always black and white for some people
As for Epol, I think he is a chop as well. Only slightly less embarrassing than that sham skoppie
7 Jun 2012, 19:54 pm
@Tourettes(Tourettes)-43:
And playing an AVERAGE English team with SA 3rd rate discards they are even firmer favourites.
7 Jun 2012, 19:54 pm
@The Analyst(The Analyst)-51:
I mean how embarrassing to have a BOTHA in your ENGLISH team?????
7 Jun 2012, 20:01 pm
@The Analyst(The Analyst)-52: how is it “embarrassing”?
There are names of English, French, Dutch and German origin in our own team.
7 Jun 2012, 20:01 pm
@The Analyst(The Analyst)-49:
I just love it when the English players and press talk up their teams before playing the SH big three. The obituaries after the game are usually classics like ‘how could our great England team lose to SA/AUS/AB’. And their players saying ‘oh but we are England, we have a great history’ WTF are they smoking!?!?!?!? Great history when compared to Scotland, Wales, Ireland and Italy!?!?!?!?!?
Wales and Ireland have seldom been in the top 3 in the world and after England’s brief spell there 10 years ago I seriously doubt they will get there any time soon. But I just love their optimism!!!!!
7 Jun 2012, 20:02 pm
I see the poisonous dwarf inherited that nickname for very good reason. Doesn’t seem to be the nicest of guys, huh?
7 Jun 2012, 20:07 pm
@The Analyst(The Analyst)-49:
The fact is Baritt and Botha qualify to play for England in terms of the regulations of the IRB.
That is all that counts.
The rest is only opinion.
So get over yourself.
7 Jun 2012, 20:14 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-56:
Have to agree. It’s not their fault that the rules allow them to play for another country. I would say ‘good for them’ for managing to play international rugby. After all, this is a professional era and we will all relocate to another country under the right conditions. Just walk around London and you will hear the SA accents.
7 Jun 2012, 20:16 pm
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-53:
I am sure you can work it out?? DUH!
7 Jun 2012, 20:18 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-56:
I am entitled to an opinion, and it is pretty obvious to everyone. Why do you think they went to ‘qualify’ to play rugby for England? Because they knew they would never play international rugby here?
Am I mistaken?
7 Jun 2012, 20:21 pm
@Golden Boy(Golden Boy)-57:
And that is the whole point – they would never have played international rugby here.
Who would you play if both were eligible for Boks? Steyn or Barritt?
Barritt never even made a squad.
He knows he is second rate. He was at the sharks so left for ‘greener pastures’ – no pun intented – and good for him.
my ‘opinion’ is he is average …. that is why he is saying he needs the whole team to support him against Steyn.
7 Jun 2012, 20:23 pm
@Golden Boy(Golden Boy)-57:
Exactly. After reading the story of Mouritz Botha the other day i only have respect for him. He did it the hard way- for him there was no scolarships, no rugby- academies – no breaks in SA- he went to work as a carper cleaner and roof washer in England playing for a lowly semi amateur team until he eventually made it to the top level. – and he never had a bad word to say about South Africa. So there is no need for people to “dish” him for daring to try and make a better life for himself elsewhere.
7 Jun 2012, 20:24 pm
@Golden Boy(Golden Boy)-54:
And don’t get me wrong, they still have a chance to beat the boks … most international teams in top 5 can do that ‘on their day’.
They have a chance now in first game when the boks are ‘new’ and have not played a lot together.
But they are average, always have been.
But good luck to them.
7 Jun 2012, 20:25 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-61: Yes. Good one
7 Jun 2012, 20:26 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-61:
And good for him for making a life for himself in England. No one is dishing him for that and one can only give him all due respect.
But as a rugby player? Sure he might be ‘the business’ for England in the second row, but would he have played for the Boks?
NO.
7 Jun 2012, 20:29 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-61:
And Botha had no breaks in SA because he was not good enough.
7 Jun 2012, 20:31 pm
Respect to Mr Botha.
Never played rep rugby at any level in SA as far as I know, came over to England, played his guts out for a range of Average teams, until finally landing up at Saracens as a full pro, leading to selection for England.
Aparently landed up hooking up with a local English girl, and is now settled in the UK.
He plays his GUTS out everytime he plays. The hardest working English forward.
Anybody who calls him a traitor or whatever is a D.O.O.S IMHO. He plays for his adopted country with distinction, at the same time doing his country of birth proud with his natural saffanis.
He owes us fuckall! traitor se gat!
7 Jun 2012, 20:31 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-56: @Robzim(Robzim)-61: Good posts. See, when the Stompies are not involved, we can agree!
7 Jun 2012, 20:32 pm
@The Analyst(The Analyst)-59:
Of course you have the right to an opinion.
But it makes you look a bit (lets say) naive if you say those players know they are second rate. There is no ways that you will ever know whether they would have made the Bok team or not. Remember they developed as players since they left SA- you cannot compare the Barritt of 2008 to the Barritt of 2012.
Take a look at Kevin Pieterson. He could not make the Natal team and left for England and became one of the best batsman in the world. And that is NOT opionion as in cricket players can be “rated” according to actual averages.
Give these guys a break.
7 Jun 2012, 20:32 pm
Mouritz Botha is the complete opposite of Kevin FIGJAM Pietersen.
7 Jun 2012, 20:34 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-61: Well said Rob. Have totally respect for what Botha has done. Well done to him for making the English team.
Another thing Barritt never had to qualify to play for England. He had always held a British and South African passport. So could have played for either country at the time. Of course now that he has played for England he no longer can play for SA.
At the time when Barritt came along J. Fourie and JdV were playing superb rugby together and was always going to keep him out.Then of course came Fransie during the wc 2007 and naturally Barritt would have thought his best bet would be to try and play for England. Barritt is a great player and well done to him for getting into the England side too. He too has never said a bad word about South Africa.
7 Jun 2012, 20:35 pm
Barrit’s mother is English. He plays for England.
What is complicated here? Back in the day, if you had a foot in both camps so to speak, you could play for both.
Anyone care to look up the number of Boks who also played for England?
7 Jun 2012, 20:36 pm
@wooden spoon(wooden spoon)-67:
Thanks… I am a bit pissed off with only 3 Stormers in the wider group of 32 though
I have no real complaints about the starting xv though although I would have loved to see lambie at no 10 and Aplon on the bench.
7 Jun 2012, 20:37 pm
@hensopper1(hensopper1)-66:
No one said he is a traitor. No one disrespects how hard he has worked.
He is just not good enough to play for the springboks.
7 Jun 2012, 20:41 pm
@hensopper1(hensopper1)-66:
I agree. He is a geezer. Any South African who cuts the mustard is a man worth his salt. Those English girls are naughty!
7 Jun 2012, 20:43 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-68:
Robzim … OK I hear you. I will give them a break when I see it on the field.
I am still sceptical that they ‘developed’ playing N.Hemisphere rugby.
If I see Barritt suddenly transformed into a ‘Frank Bunce’ I will be happy for him. Or Botha suddenly becoming a “Bakkies”.
No direspect for them as people or what they have achieved, I think it is great.
They are just not Boks and never would have been. There were and are better players in SA than them.
7 Jun 2012, 20:44 pm
@Puma(Puma)-70:
We just have so much talent in this country that some players will just have to miss out. Sometimes the difference between them and those who made it are marginal- some are more lucky, went to the right school, etc.
Having said that we have so much talent, the performance of the junior Boks were quite disappointing the other night- not sure whether it is bad coaching or whether the Irish team is just better.
7 Jun 2012, 20:47 pm
@The Analyst(The Analyst)-75:
Cool man. Lets see how they go on Saturday.I think it is going to be a tight game with SA only slight favourites.
7 Jun 2012, 20:54 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-76: Absolutely Rob. We have so much talent here and some may always just miss out. So if they do go overseas to try their chances and make it there, well done to them.
About our Juniors, just have no clue. My feeling there is lot of very good talented players there for all of them just to mess up like that. We looked clueless. I will put the blame on the Coach. See he has changed almost the whole team, maybe HE should have been changed and not so much the team…hehehe. Anyhow think Ireland were far better than us and well done to them.
Anyhow out of here now. Good to catch up again Rob.
7 Jun 2012, 20:57 pm
@Puma(Puma)-78:
Cheers. Have a good evening.
7 Jun 2012, 20:59 pm
@The Analyst(The Analyst)-75:
They may not have been good enough for South Africa but they are good enough for England. That says more about the relative depth in SA and ENG doesn’t it?
At a certain level most players are fairly similar with maybe a handful of standout players all over the world. So maybe those players never made it due to other extraneous circumstances like the coaches game plan, or their ‘fit’ within a particular rugby culture. They then went to another country and thrived there not because the other players are arguably weaker, but because they found a better fit with their natural game.
Now having said all that I STILL believe that SA is at least 10-15 points better than England on any given day. But players all over the world want to play International rugby against the best there is. If it means having to play for an adopted country then so be it. If I was offered the opportunity to represent Japan today I would take it up in a heartbeat!!!
7 Jun 2012, 21:16 pm
Geez okes, I am not sure why so many are disrespecting Barrit, but he is a bloody good player and I would have loved for him to be available for the boks.
Played some great rugga for the Sharks at flyhalf and inside center. Great hands, great brain, big, fast, strong and already has a 100% career win record against the Boks after being on the Saracens team that beat us on end of year tour.
Huge respect to Botha too for earning the right to play test footie, has shown a lot of character.
7 Jun 2012, 21:17 pm
Don’t we all love an English girl with big t!ts ! Hmmmm…
7 Jun 2012, 21:34 pm
@brains_trust(brains_trust)-82:
Naaahhh..they are to pasty..now a nice Latina..mmmmmmmmmm
Bring on the Argies I say 
7 Jun 2012, 22:09 pm
Henry Batt wrote: Wat is die top punt van ‘confoculation’…….as jy in Desember in die see op Durbanse hoofstrand gaan swem, en daar uitstap met n drol in jou broek…en jy weet dit is nie noodwendig joune nie.
7 Jun 2012, 22:14 pm
What’s with all the man-love for SA players running out for the enemy?
Even Boots and All tonight had an ode to Barrit, wishing him well on the weekend.
Stuff that. I hope he gets clobbered by Frans Steyn, that Willem Alberts does a Jonah Lomu-Mike Catt impersonation over him, that we totally stomp all over him and Mourtiz Botha.
I really don’t understand this tipping of our hats to guys running out for the enemy.
Honestly, I don’t.
7 Jun 2012, 22:25 pm
@Puma(Puma)-78: Howzit Puma , I’m tired of hearing about all this talent in SA and not seeing it on the rugby field. When last did we see someóne with sidestep,swerve (footwork) and handling skills that is so prevalent in NZ rugby. Where do we see the attacking of space ,in fact when SA sides have plenty of possession and space they don’t seem to be able to use it to break down defences. I just don’t see the off the ball running and making themselves available for the ball carrier that you see the AB’ s doing. The only skills that we seem to excel at is kicking. I know i’m exagerating but it irks me no end to see great athletes without the thinking brains on a rugby field.
7 Jun 2012, 22:30 pm
Barritt is absolute kakkas would never have made Boks he did the right thing for his career f’ng off and turning his coat into the enemy’s … such is the category of turncoat.. Barritt is the epitome of Judas Priest and his technicolor dream of playing for old mother Hubbard’s dainty Doolittle England.
Only problem he ain’t so hot.. he’s the weakest link in that English back line.. dunno why on earth Lancaster even got him in his squad.
7 Jun 2012, 22:32 pm
@The Analyst(The Analyst)-75:
FYI Barritt’s parents both hold Zimbabwean passports, so he was certainly not a South African product from that point of view.
You seem to be trying to belittle the English side by saying, “Well, if Barritt and Botha can get in, your lot can’t be much good”. Fair enough, but in several position your guys wouldn’t get into the English side. Would we swap Spies for Morgan, or Cole for JdP, or Marler for the Beast? Nope. Would we like Kirchner or your half-backs in our team? Probably not.
The only guys in the Springbok team who would definitely get into this England side would be Bismarck, Jean de Villiers [at 12] and Habana.
Staurday will be close and the series will be close.
7 Jun 2012, 22:32 pm
@louis schropnel(louis shrapnel)-87:
Now hang on. Barrit is a decent centre. Not quite Bok material, but easily England material.
7 Jun 2012, 22:33 pm
@bananaboy(bananaboy)-86: they weren’t picked because bigger is better and those with blou ogies and permed blond hair fit the DNA stereotype so much better.
7 Jun 2012, 22:36 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-89: Barritt is way overrated in terms of SA talent.. all these Sharkies moaning and lamenting his departure to the land of his forebears… I can’t for the life of me see why on earth anyone would miss a carthorse of such plodding magnitude and deceptive slowness.
7 Jun 2012, 22:38 pm
@louis schropnel(louis shrapnel)-91:
Although I must say between Olivier and Barritt I’d have a tough time deciding who to leave out…
7 Jun 2012, 22:41 pm
@louis schropnel(louis shrapnel)-92:
Trying to antagonize every non-Stormer tonight are you?
Boy, I have never seen Skopskiet with his team actually doing well. I’ve only seen posts by him for the last 10 years, after all.
It’s not a pretty sight, I am discovering.
7 Jun 2012, 22:42 pm
@kinlaw_62(kinlaw_62)-88: Methinks you are short a few scoops of objectivity there.
You’d rather have Marler over Beast? Care over Hougaard? Parling over Etzebeth? Barrit over Steyn?
You guys have odd taste in rugby players.
7 Jun 2012, 22:46 pm
The equation is quite simple, really:
If Tuialigi was good enough to play for NZ, like all his cousins do, then he wouldn’t be playing for England.
Same thing with Mourtitz and Brad. If they were good enough to play for the Boks, they wouldn’t be playing for England now would they.
7 Jun 2012, 22:49 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-95: And even with our relatively slim pickings at tighthead prop at the moment, Matt Stevens would still be well towards the back of the queue.
7 Jun 2012, 22:52 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-95: @>^..^< katman(katman)-96: @kinlaw_62(kinlaw_62)-88:
Conjecture.
I think Barrit is bloody good, I think Botha is quite good.
I think rugby teams win matches and I think the teams are more evenly matched than us South Africans care to wish.
I also agree with @Brendope(Brendope)-81: If we are so bloody good why do we play such kak skop & charge rugby and lose against NZ and Australia more than we win?
7 Jun 2012, 22:52 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-96: Howzit Katman.
7 Jun 2012, 22:52 pm
Nah there is this fable doing the rounds around here that Stormers are inferior rugby players or some such concocted jargon
the real problem facing these two coaches is they both have some rather mediocre players in their team..
The more I analyze this England team the more I start considering their plight here.. I mean Barritt and Botha are their two Juggernauts of great magnificent physical virtue .. the two SA cast offs coached by another SA cast off Catt who got so highly humiliated when he faced a real SH opponent he practically wished the earth would open up and swallow him up whole…
I like to think England are going to put up a big fight.. I reckon between their front row.. though they are now missing Corbisiero … and their second row .. where they are going to be missing Lawes hugely.. and their back row which is a pretty good balanced outfit though they will miss the height and speed of Croft … they will probably fire on about 3 from 4 cylinders.
As to their backs they are all pretty good and deft distributors with decent running possibilities apart from Barritt, who is the one weak link in their chain.. so remains to be seen which plodding carthorse inside center going to out plod the other.. Barritt or Steyn.
7 Jun 2012, 22:55 pm
@SodaJoe(SodaJoe)-98: Hey Joe. Why you so scarce lately? Or are you exclusively a night owl?
7 Jun 2012, 22:56 pm
@louis schropnel(louis shrapnel)-99: I think Lawes & Croft are a big big loss. The height and pace would have given us a lot of trouble.
But our weakness to be exposed will be in the backline – on attack. Defensively Frans Steyn & JDV are outstanding.
Morne Steyn …..not so much.
But the skop & charge is quite predictable.
7 Jun 2012, 22:57 pm
@louis schropnel(louis shrapnel)-99:
Your priorities are so screwed up right now that you don’t know if you’re ”Arthur” or ”Martha”.
You so desperately want the Boks to do badly to get your favourites into the team, and yet you hate the English at the same time, that you’re probably sitting in front of the PC facepalming yourself between posts, trying to figure out a preferred scenario for this weekend.
Just face it. It’s a lose lose situation for you, either way. Cause Meyer isn’t going to change his mind.
He knows what he wants, and he will rather try and implement it better next time, if it doesn’t work perfectly first time round, than making wholesale changes just to keep the Stormersader fans happy.
7 Jun 2012, 22:58 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-100: I have just been working my arse off.
Also the site got increasingly tiresome.
But I like the Boks. And interntionals bring out the best on the site beacuse, in the main, its all for SA.
I weep for our Lions.
7 Jun 2012, 23:01 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-102: I think Meyer’s first consideration when picking a Bok team – before he considers form, before he considers combinations, before he considers game plan – is how he can best piss off this crazy old palooka on keo.co.za. Tick. Now let’s see how we can win this thing.
7 Jun 2012, 23:04 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-102: Meyer will be forced to change his mind.. before too long he’s going to realize.. just like Jake was forced to do that fetchers are a non negotiable necessity in modern rugby… and hookers may add to the fetching paradigm but they cannot do it all alone and solo…
He will also be forced to realize that big bumbling back line players maybe all hunky dory when you play kick and chase one dimensional vokmafoort rugby but when you need a LITTLE bit of direction through the gain line and a little bit of panache and game breaking momentum, the likes of Kirchner, Olivier and Steyn and Steyn are NOT going to be doing any of it for you… AB’s will smack this bok team to smithereens only by looks of things even Hansen got rocks in his head playing his weakest backs up front.
7 Jun 2012, 23:05 pm
@SodaJoe(SodaJoe)-103: Ja, it has gotten a bit juvenile and messy here lately. And now that keo has strayed, what will become of us?
But you’re right, these tests override everything. I, for one, am ready for a fight. I want this first game to be the most sobering lesson in humility for an English team in the modern era of the game. I want Ashton to seriously reconsider his career. And I deeply regret Haskell not being part of this motley crew of cannon fodder so that he can take his well deserved hiding like a man too.
7 Jun 2012, 23:07 pm
@louis schropnel(louis shrapnel)-105:
Hmmm.
Or maybe Meyer knows more than you think he does, and becomes the most successfull Bok coach ever.
How would you like that scenario?
7 Jun 2012, 23:08 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-106: I think the forwards look OK.
I am not so excited about the backline and the oh so obvious tactics.
I think the bench is actually very good. Other than Meisiekind.
7 Jun 2012, 23:12 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-107: If Meyer wins every game by one point he will be a legend.
Lets just start winning. More often than we lose to: Australia, New Zealand and then everyone else. But those 2 first then the World Cup.
I am so tired of losing. Because coches screw up the talnt we have. And Meyer gets his chance, unfortunately the truth is I wish he had a broader mind tactically and parochially.
But he has my support. For sure.
But we are cannibals. We eat Springbok coaches alive. No piri piri even.
7 Jun 2012, 23:14 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-107: Tacs why Duecalion? Saving himself from a deluge in a box. I don’t get it.
7 Jun 2012, 23:17 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-102: actually I’m Martha right now.., no I’m Arthur… nah I’m definitely Martha.. actually I think I rather be Garth the Farther or Darth the Fartarse
Bottom line Heyneke deserves a smack to his preconceived short sightedness.. and England are not up to the task.. and JdV deserves to be a successful captain..
So all variables chucked into the wicker basket.. a loss would do wonders to Meyers overrated self esteem.. while a win is what JdV absolutely deserves and needs…
I reckon I’ll leave it up to providence to decide whose more worthy than whom in the latest correlation function of rolling the karmic roulette wheel
But all said and done I can’t quite see England punishing Boks at home unless they play well below their natural capabilities.
7 Jun 2012, 23:17 pm
@SodaJoe(SodaJoe)-108: I’m pretty happy with the whole team, bar Kirchner. But to be fair, we didn’t really have too many options there. Lambie has played very few games at 15, and on Saturday he was less than spectacular there. My vote would have gone to Taute, but maybe that’s just my bias. I wouldn’t have minded aplon there either, but I understand Meyer’s preference for big, powerful backs. I don’t mind Morne Steyn at 10, as long as we stick to a game that suits him being there.
Up front I think we’re too strong for them. And even though our locks are both rookies, they have the potential to be a great combination. Coetzee will be brimming with energy, and Alberts seems to be back. And Spies always raises his game for the Boks. I’m backing him to have a big game.
This team could look quite different once we play the Tri-Nations, but for now I’m pretty happy.
7 Jun 2012, 23:19 pm
OK. Tactics.
I think the two Steyns are going to pin them in their own 22 with tactical kicks, from which we’ll compete strongly on the ensuing line out throws, winning a couple and launcing assaults on their goalline from there.
I think we’ll launch up and unders, with the big Frans Steyn and Jean de Villiers chasing and competing for the ball in the air on their 22 metre line, from which we’ll win a number of nice regathers and resulting attacking opportunities in their 22 metre area.
I think we will maul it up strongly.
And I think we are going to tackle the sh*t out of them. This talk of Alberts missing tackles, hell, when he connects, he flattens his target.
And Bismark and Etsebeth and this Coetzee chap, not to mention Frans Steyn in the backline.
I think we’re gonna knock them outta their socks at the collision points.
Frans Steyn will take a couple of long range penalty kicks from his own half, and Morne will try a drop goal or three from up close.
And we’ll score a maul try and maybe one try from a ball spilling loose from a high bomb.
We’ll take the game by 12 points.
7 Jun 2012, 23:19 pm
@louis schropnel(louis shrapnel)-111: “I can’t quite see England punishing Boks at home unless they play well below their natural capabilities”.
What happens if England play above their natural capabilities?
7 Jun 2012, 23:19 pm
@louis schropnel(louis shrapnel)-111: Biggest mystery, when it comes to the Boks, is why the hell they didn’t appoint you as coach ahead of Meyer. The whole country is scratching its collective head over that one. We sure missed a trick there.
7 Jun 2012, 23:20 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-94:
I’d certainly take Marler over the Beast. The choice would be between Parling and Kruger, which is about 50/50. Yes, Frans Steyn would be preferred to Barritt, though frankly I think JdV is better than both at inside centre. Youngs [Care isn't in the Test 22] over Hougaard at 9 yes – though I’d like to get Hougaard in somewhere because he’s obviously very talented.
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-95:
Er, Tuilagi’s relatives play for Samoa not NZ, fella. Tuilagi went to English schools so he’s entitled to pick England. In a full-strength England side, Lawes would be playing instead of Botha. But it’s not unusual for talent to get overlooked in one environment and succeed in another. Barritt may be not be world-class but he was outstanding in the English system during the 6 Nations.
7 Jun 2012, 23:22 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-112: One game at a time.
We’re all coaches on Keo. That’s part of the joy.
I would have had Lambie at 15, and I like Frankie Hollywood as an impact player and would have started Ruan.
Alberts is the scariest man to ever play rugby. Scarier than Schalk.
Spies. I hope so. We’ve been saying this for years.
7 Jun 2012, 23:23 pm
@kinlaw_62(kinlaw_62)-116: Of course, Youngs not Care. My bad.
Still, I think you’re in for a healthy dose of perspective regarding these selection preferences of yours come Saturday afternoon. No offense. Or perhaps just a little, but it’s good natured offense.
7 Jun 2012, 23:23 pm
@kinlaw_62(kinlaw_62)-116:
Correction: They play for Samoa because they couldn’t make the NZ team.
7 Jun 2012, 23:24 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-115: yeah that you did stupid dumb schmucks they pick morons like 3-53 Streauli.. then 0-49 White and then 0-19 PdV.., and now this dunce…
when you ever gonna pick a coach that actually knows wtf he’s actually about?
7 Jun 2012, 23:25 pm
@louis schropnel(louis shrapnel)-120:
And who would that be? Chester Williams?
7 Jun 2012, 23:26 pm
@louis schropnel(louis shrapnel)-120: Like you? Is there anything that you don’t know everything about?
7 Jun 2012, 23:26 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-113: I think that’s accurate.
But our defensive posture is obvious. And our attacking posture is obvious.
The other okes are not thick Tacs.
They also know where we are kak.
Slow. Predictable. Given to dropping our heads when we get matched physically. Propensity to blow up when the game is played at pace through multiple phases. Vulnerable out wide. Vulnerable through 10 channel (although we have bulked up with Frans).
7 Jun 2012, 23:27 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-121: Don’t put him on the spot. That’s not fair.
7 Jun 2012, 23:28 pm
@louis schropnel(louis shrapnel)-120: I moved to America and confined my genius to blogging. Sorry. Not available.
7 Jun 2012, 23:28 pm
@SodaJoe(SodaJoe)-123: Chin up, Joe. You sound like a man half beaten already. We’re actually the bookies’ favourite, which is where you should look for an honest take.
7 Jun 2012, 23:29 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-122: no not much
perhaps rocket science a little outa my league but most things common sense induced are right up my layman’s street
7 Jun 2012, 23:30 pm
@SodaJoe(SodaJoe)-123:
Slow? I reckon our no.8 is faster than most of their backs. And Juandre Kruger is quicker than most of their loose forwards.
I reckon our scrumhalf has the pace of a wing, and De Villiers at outside centre must outpace this Tuiligi behemoth.
The wings are probably on a par.
Where exactly are they quicker than us?
7 Jun 2012, 23:31 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-113:
Okay tactics.
Hougaard will launch a lot of high kicks with random results – some will be regatherd by SA, others will deliver ripe countering possibilities for the English back-three and Ben Morgan. England will make money on these returns and keep the ball when progress is halted. SA will quickly begin to regret having no-one in their back-row who can compete for ball on the ground.
SA will send their big guns down the middle and be surprised at the violence of the English midifeld tackling. When they kick deep, they will find Farrell and Brown returning the ball with interest.
England may lose a couple of lineout throws but they will undermine the Springbok scrum and pressure Spies at 8. Youngs will run at the Boks inside defence and find weaknesses in Alberts and Spies there too.
A close one, maybe only two or three tries, but England will take it by 6.
7 Jun 2012, 23:31 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-126: Katters. I think we will win. I always do, the curse of the South African. I EXPECT to win every game. And then we fkn lose and it fkn moers my fkn weekend.
But I believe this, albeit slightly one dimensional team, has the sheer brute force and ability to take 3 points regularly and win it. And I will be heppy.
7 Jun 2012, 23:32 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-128: Ashton is probably quicker than Petersen, And Farrell might pip Morne. But that’s about it.
7 Jun 2012, 23:34 pm
@kinlaw_62(kinlaw_62)-129: It’s fun having some of you around. Promise you’ll stick around after Saturday?
7 Jun 2012, 23:34 pm
Meyer is a good psychologist and a thorough practitioner of character identification and team building.. ONLY its all done around a very one dimensional and narrow principle of cognition.. he don’t leave much beyond his narrow framework of reference.. and I reckon he gonna have to keep winning.. because soon as he starts losing.. if he does.. I dunno if he got the real low down true grit staying power you need to be successful in a job of this nature where every minute failure is gonna come down on you like a shitload tonne of bricks.. and then the rest of it.
7 Jun 2012, 23:34 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-128: Everywhere else.
And ok, after all these years, I know how you feel about Pierre. Whose speed has don nothing for the Boks, yet. Pierre Spies is the Darryl Cullinan of rugby, breaks your heart.
I would play Vermulen, Alberts ahead of Pierre any day of the week. And they are slower than him.
We;ve said a lot about guys missing out, but I would have loved to see Ebersohn outside Frans, and Kloisi at 6. That would have been cool.
7 Jun 2012, 23:36 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-119:
Get your facts straight. The Tuilagis have never played in, or tried to qualify for New Zealand.
@>^..^< katman(katman)-118:
Well I guess that’s what we’re trying to find out on this tour – on both sides!
7 Jun 2012, 23:36 pm
@SodaJoe(SodaJoe)-130: Nah, we’re going to score a handful of tries. Some pretty, some not. And Morne will convert each and every one of them.
Come second half, Farrell will be forced to forgo easy points as they chase converted tries to catch up. And then it’s tickets.
7 Jun 2012, 23:37 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-131: That young Farrell boy is a potential superstar. Nice and calm on the ball. Lovely head up game. GREAT boot. Good pace. And (almost) as courageous as Johnny Wilkinson in the tackle.
7 Jun 2012, 23:38 pm
@kinlaw_62(kinlaw_62)-129: Lovely.
Well done.
Stay around.
You give as good as you get. Without being a doos. Good for you.
7 Jun 2012, 23:39 pm
@SodaJoe(SodaJoe)-134: That’s not entirely true about Spies. Check here, including a brace of beauties against this very same enemy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3muAkT0K9Y
7 Jun 2012, 23:42 pm
@louis schropnel(louis shrapnel)-133: shame, is that how it was for you?
7 Jun 2012, 23:43 pm
@kinlaw_62(kinlaw_62)-135:
No Samoan plays for Samoa if he is good enough to play for NZ – unless he was dumb enough to play a couple of tests in his youth and thus got disqualified from joining the Keewees thereafter thanks to those pesky IRB lawmakers.
You’ve got a lot to learn about how things work Down Unda.
7 Jun 2012, 23:44 pm
Sodaman and Katman. Sure I’ll stick around, it’s much more fun talking to you Saffers. I came across a couple of Kiwis on another forum and they take themselves so bloody seriously!
7 Jun 2012, 23:46 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-140: how what is for WHO.. are you so mentally deranged you cannot see sh’t for trees … what you gonna do when your great messiah don’t turn out to be the messiah you thought he was… not Frankie Steyn.. nor Heyneke Herr Hoogenplatz.. what you gonna do then lightie… what??
7 Jun 2012, 23:48 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-141:
Sure I do Yoda. Maybe you haven’t noticed, but there’s a sizeable PI community in the UK and France now which is beginning to churn out ‘European’ players. Tuilagi and Toby Faletau are just the start. There’s a couple of young Vunipolas who will play for England inside three years – and one is a 135kgs prop bigger tha Ben Tameifuna…
And if you didn’t notice [x2], Samoa ran you very close at the world cup with a ‘European’ style of play.
7 Jun 2012, 23:48 pm
@kinlaw_62(kinlaw_62)-142: There are a few of them here that you must look out for too, in the way that you look out for a fresh dog poo in the dappled shadows on your lawn.
7 Jun 2012, 23:49 pm
@kinlaw_62(kinlaw_62)-142:
Their problem is that they think they’re the most ethical, upstanding, downright good folks that you could possibly come across. And anyone who doesn’t share their nanny-state, emasculated view of life is prime evil.
Whereas we know we’re a bunch of argumentative, hardarse, semi-violent pioneer types ready for an argument at any time.
So what you see is what you get. None of that pretentious bullsh*t you get from the wee folk from the Shire.
7 Jun 2012, 23:51 pm
Anyway gentlemen and Skoppie, I must be off.
7 Jun 2012, 23:52 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-146: hahaha that must be the most eloquent way of saying Kiwis are a bunch of asterisks.
7 Jun 2012, 23:53 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-145: @Tacitus(Deucalion)-146:
I have to admit that every time you get into a debate about players with a Kiwi, it always seems to begin with….. “Ah, but we have at least 14 better props/fullbacks/scrum-halves than him playing in Manawatu alone…..”. Hard to argue with that.
7 Jun 2012, 23:54 pm
@kinlaw_62(kinlaw_62)-144:
Fair enough. I’m in no position to comment on the make up of your immigrant communities, although back when I was there there were more Polish guys, Pakistanis, Nigerians and West Indians there than Polynesians, but things have obviously changed then in the last 10 years.
That doesn’t change the fact that all the best Samoans ply their trade in NZ, unless they don’t make the All Black team, in which case they head north for more moola.
Excluding your homegrown second generation Anglofied Samoans of course, as you’ve so kindly pointed out to me.
7 Jun 2012, 23:55 pm
@kinlaw_62(kinlaw_62)-149: That Manawatu does seem to be a factory. Almost like we have down here in Cape Town!
7 Jun 2012, 23:55 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-140: Well hello Rangemaster
7 Jun 2012, 23:58 pm
@LightZone(LightZone)-151:
Lol. Good night to all!
7 Jun 2012, 23:59 pm
Cheers pax
8 Jun 2012, 07:34 am
@Sharks fans are genuine Bok supporters. Stormers support England.(Predawn)-42: Why don’t you go suck HG’s balls?
8 Jun 2012, 07:49 am
@kinlaw_62(kinlaw_62)-88: I have to disagree, our lock combo is going to blow you away, also Beast is one of the best LH’s in the game, he wins more scrums then he loses them and his defence and attack is amazing.
8 Jun 2012, 07:57 am
@BreakdownBoy(goodstuff)-156:
@BreakdownBoy(goodstuff)-155:
…suck..balls..blow you away….Are you a Stormers supporter?
8 Jun 2012, 08:05 am
@Sharks fans are genuine Bok supporters. Stormers support England.(Predawn)-157: Yes I am and a bigger Springbok supporter. What gives you the right to question my support of the bok squad because I have a difference of opinion on the squad selection?
Your username smacks of ignorance and idiocy, would not be surprised if this is Fern.
Grow up boat and go swim in the Durban sea beyond the net and save us all from your moronic blabbering.
8 Jun 2012, 08:09 am
@BreakdownBoy(goodstuff)-158:
Your post smacks of double standards Stormsader. Dogs bollocks…
You also can’t read…
8 Jun 2012, 08:57 am
@Sharks fans are genuine Bok supporters. Stormers support England.(Predawn)-159: Why does it smack of double standards? Please explain? I am awaiting you brilliant explination?
You are the fool that is stereo typing Stormers supportes because we question bok squad selections.
8 Jun 2012, 09:04 am
@BreakdownBoy(goodstuff)-160:
It’s Great White Shark.
Ignore him
8 Jun 2012, 09:23 am
@BreakdownBoy(goodstuff)-160:
I left a clue in my post.
8 Jun 2012, 09:27 am
@Dawn(Dawn)-161: It seems these “trolls”; as they are called in the international internet community, change their usernames often. It is something this website should address as it allowes the degenrate scum to apply their trade in this forum.
Thanks for the heads up, so the Great White Hype is afraid of being indentified. It seems his real usersname is PreDawn.
8 Jun 2012, 09:29 am
@BreakdownBoy(goodstuff)-163:
Take a look on the right of the screen Doris. Everyone can see it but you…
8 Jun 2012, 10:05 am
I walk in and its handbags left and right
8 Jun 2012, 10:28 am
@Sharks fans are genuine Bok supporters. Stormers support England.(Predawn)-164: It’s all right if you can’t explain yourself properly, that is usually the case when a troll is asked to speak sense.
8 Jun 2012, 10:49 am
From what I understand the Boks have won 19 out of the last 31 games since the 1930s? That is a 61% win ratio. Most South Africans would expect that ratio to be higher and perhaps it should’ve been. At the very least what it does say is that historically the Boks are stronger than the Roses. I don’t know how many wins in SA there has been but we have smashed them on Twickenham numerous times over the last 5-6 years. Other than Kruger, Etzebeth and Coetzee most of the starting line up was involved in those games and all three of those new caps are top drawer players that could’ve arguably earned their starting berths whether there has been injuries to the incumbents or not.
A 61% win ratio clearly indicates that the odds are not that we are going to smash England, although I hope we do. A 2/3 series win would actually reflect the long term historical trend. So even if the Boks lose the first Test England won’t be breaking new ground. Especially in light of the fact that they have 3 imports in their team. If they do manage to win, let England be bit smug, because from Saturday onwards the Boks will only get stronger now that we have really competent analysts and coaches implementing national structures to unify the Bok game plan and selection. Now we just need central contracting to manage the player workload and for politicians to butt out and not rock coaching boat.
8 Jun 2012, 10:51 am
This is hilarious: Ollie le Roux has commented on the great impact our bench will make. He mentions everyone other than Wynand Olivier:
‘And the South African bench is full of players capable of making an impact on the game at Kings Park this weekend. Hooker Adriaan Strauss, prop Coenie Oosthuizen, lock Flip van der Merwe, flank Keegan Daniel and backs Ruan Pienaar and Patrick Lambie are all exciting players capable of providing the spark which could swing the game in the home side’s favour.’
That is quite funny and sad at the same time.
8 Jun 2012, 10:59 am
@Robzim(Robzim)-61:
I doubt most South Africans are dissing Botha and Barritt. I agree that Botha’s story is inspiring. He never gave up. I think most South Africans appreciate the story.
What people are saying is that players that would not make the Bok team are in the England team over their own homegrown players. That is an indication of why we have historically been stronger than England, even our 2nd Tier players make their national squad. No offence to Botha and Barritt. It is just a matter of pointing out reality to the Poms who always scheme they should be ranked higher than SA. They might squeeze a surprise victory now and then when circumstances play into their hands, like this Saturday perhaps, but on average there are very much the underdogs.
8 Jun 2012, 11:06 am
@kinlaw_62(kinlaw_62)-88:
Well, well, well. The gauntlet has been well and truly thrown. Other than Kirchner you are talking rubbish. Maybe you will sneak a win now but we will talk again in 4 years time. 75% to the Boks vs England over that time frame at least. And if they keep our current coaching guys in place for another 4 you won’t smell another Bok win.
8 Jun 2012, 11:38 am
@STBUR(STBUR)-169:
That is EXACTLY the point!
8 Jun 2012, 12:06 pm
@GermanBok(Marty)-168:
…and true.
8 Jun 2012, 14:31 pm
@STBUR(STBUR)-170:
I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt by assuming you know nothing about the England players, which is pretty obvious from your comments. But that is at the extreme edge of my goodwill.
8 Jun 2012, 15:56 pm
Last time I Checked Jean played quite a number of games at 13 early in his WP/Stormers & SA career so the adjustment shouldn’t be to hard Barritt
8 Jun 2012, 16:01 pm
@kinlaw_62(kinlaw_62)-173:
what year did you put 70 past the Bokke at Twickers?
8 Jun 2012, 18:18 pm
2002, and it was 53-3, 6 tries to nil! Though I can’t see that happening tomorrow…
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