Springboks vs England – 1st Test preview
8 Jun 2012
RYAN VREDE analyses the key match-ups and picks the winner in Saturday’s match at Kings Park.
It has been 12 years since England beat the Springboks in South Africa, but you get the sense they strongly believe they can snap that streak. Their quiet confidence is likely rooted primarily in this new-look group having had a strong Six Nations campaign, in which they beat France away, extended preparation time and the Springboks’ limitations in this regard.
They also give you the impression they think that is their most gifted squad in years. However, while they have some players of high promise in their back division, I have reservations about their pack’s ability to match the Springboks’ physicality.
The gainline battle is unfailingly key to victory in Test matches and with the the Springboks’ key strike runners all boasting appreciable bulk, they will be expected to boss this facet of play on attack. England’s 10-12 axis of Owen Farrell and Brad Barritt will be targeted, with Frans Steyn in particular asked to test their defensive resolve, a battle I believe he will win.
England, however, will encounter an opponent high on defensive aggression, but, given the aforementioned preparation time, relatively low on synergy. If they can get the likes of Manu Tuilagi into space, the midfielder could ask some stern questions, especially if he isolates counterpart Jean de Villiers, who isn’t accustomed to the defensive demands of a position coaches agree is the hardest to defend in.
South Africa will hope to limit Tuilagi and co’s attacking opportunities to deep in their own territory through a kick-chase tactic. Here’s where there are some concerns. Scrumhalf Francois Hougaard will be asked to kick regularly, but this facet of his game hasn’t been strong in Super Rugby. England, if granted broken-field opportunities through poor kicks England have the personnel to punish their hosts. Hougaard must deliver a kicking performance that surpasses anything he has produced this season. His showing in this facet of play at Soccer City in 2010 suggests he has it in him. Here’s hoping he replicates that performance.
The other area of interest is the lineouts, where debutant Juandre Kruger will take command. The Bulls man has been central to the their success at the set piece (no team has stolen more balls, or is own secure on their own feed) and by all accounts has a Matfield-like dedication to studying the opposition’s lineout. Given that the majority of tries in Test rugby in the last two years have been birthed from lineout feeds in or just outside the opposition’s 22, Kruger will be absolutely key to the Springboks’ success. England have a relatively new second-row combination as well, so they may not have the experience and tactical intelligence to exploit vulnerabilities here. I sense Kruger will step up.
Despite Hougaard’s aforementioned kicking concerns, in Morne Steyn, Zane Kirchner and Frans Steyn they have enough tactical kickers to limit England to launches from unfavourable field positions. I expect them to succeed in their bid to pressure England into infringements and turnovers in their territory. Morne Steyn’s goal kicking will again be decisive and, with Frans Steyn’s gun boot, England will also be acutely aware of ill-discipline in positions that would not usually be kickable ones.
The Boks also have a far superior bench that will galvanise them as the second half wears on. All this points to towards a successful start to Heyneke Meyer’s reign and an important psychological blow in the three-Test series.
VREDE’S CALL: Springboks by 9
Springboks – 15 Zane Kirchner, 14 JP Pietersen, 13 Jean de Villiers (c), 12 Frans Steyn, 11 Bryan Habana, 10 Morné Steyn, 9 Francois Hougaard, 8 Pierre Spies, 7 Willem Alberts, 6 Marcell Coetzee, 5 Juandré Kruger, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Jannie du Plessis, 2 Bismarck du Plessis, 1 Beast Mtawarira.
Subs: 16 Adriaan Strauss, 17 Coenie Oosthuizen, 18 Flip van der Merwe, 19 Keegan Daniel, 20 Ruan Pienaar, 21 Pat Lambie, 22 Wynand Olivier.
England – 15 Mike Brown, 14 Chris Ashton, 13 Manusamoa Tuilagi, 12 Brad Barritt, 11 Ben Foden, 10 Owen Farrell, 9 Ben Youngs, 8 Ben Morgan, 7 Chris Robshaw (c), 6 Tom Johnson, 5 Geoff Parling, 4 Mouritz Botha, 3 Dan Cole, 2 Dylan Hartley, 1 Joe Marler.
Subs: 16 Lee Mears, 17 Paul Doran Jones, 18 Tom Palmer, 19 Phil Dowson, 20 Lee Dickson, 21 Toby Flood, 22 Jonathan Joseph
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298 Comments
8 Jun 2012, 11:19 am
Add some spare change to that prediction… Boks by a bit more – the boys are going to be fired up!
8 Jun 2012, 11:27 am
Foden was moved from 15 to 11 specifically because one of his few recognised weaknesses is fielding high balls under pressure and they know the Boks will be doing it all day long. I’d like to see plenty directed at him in his new position at Wing!
8 Jun 2012, 11:30 am
Boks by 9 in 1st test I seriously doubt!
I reckon they’ll take it but closer to 4/5 points. There’s no synergy so can’t see them putting more than 2 tries together
8 Jun 2012, 11:33 am
Nkosi sikelel’ iAfrika…
Uit die Blou van onse Hemel…
Sounds the Call to come together…
Ons vir Jou, Groen en Goud.
8 Jun 2012, 11:33 am
@Yetirat(Yetirat)-2:
Sure, but the Boks/Bulls mostly kick-chase on the wings rather than the fullback….
8 Jun 2012, 11:35 am
That’s what the Baby Boks thought last week against Ireland and Australia thought against Scotland!
No this is going to be a very close thing! Remember they have had very little time too prepare and have never played together as a team.
8 Jun 2012, 11:36 am
New coaching team, newish team, some new combos (e.g. hooker and locks), very short time to prepare – plus the fact that the boys were still hammering away at each other last Saturday
I will be happy with a 3-5 point win to be honest
8 Jun 2012, 11:40 am
First Test upset. England by 3.
8 Jun 2012, 11:43 am
It is going to be very close – SA lacks cohesion!
8 Jun 2012, 11:48 am
Looking at the Poll it seems we have 124 + 46 + 26 Poms and Treacherous, bittereinde Stormerpoms running around on Keo…
Get ready for the big Heyneke Green and Gold Middle finger, boytjies
8 Jun 2012, 11:57 am
@willievz(willievz)-5: Not necessarily, do you remember Rob Kearney in the British Lions tour? He was playing at 15 and fielded plenty of high balls from the Boks, and subsequently made them pay for a weak kick/chase.
8 Jun 2012, 11:57 am
@willievz(willievz)-5: Idiot with 5 Bulls in team ??? Get over yourself and support the Bokke or move to London
8 Jun 2012, 12:05 pm
As I said before. Boks by 12.
8 Jun 2012, 12:05 pm
And next week, Boks by more.
8 Jun 2012, 12:11 pm
Boks by 5
8 Jun 2012, 12:13 pm
@capebull(capebull)-12:
Listen,
I did not refer to the Boks as the Bulls. I said the Boks follow the same strategy as the Bulls come the kick-chase.
No need for name calling.
8 Jun 2012, 12:15 pm
Weather seems to be improving every time I check the forecast as well.
Looks like it may actually be perfect conditions tomorrow at 5pm.
Slightly overcast. No wind. 17 C. No rain.
Might be a light smattering of rain tonight but nothing to be concerned about.
8 Jun 2012, 12:17 pm
@willievz(willievz)-16:
Ignoreer hom, dis wat ons almal doen.
Ironies genoeg is jy mos reeds in Londen
8 Jun 2012, 12:18 pm
“It has been 12 years since England beat the Springboks in South Africa, but you get the sense they strongly believe they can snap that streak.”
It’s just like “It has been 13 years, since Springboks last beat Spain”. Oh, nevermind, they haven’t played since.
It almost perfectly applies to this case too, as Poms have been in SA only once since then. Just a little perspective.
In any case it should be very interesting series. 7 Test current winning streak for South Africa vs previous 7 Test winning streak for the English.
8 Jun 2012, 12:19 pm
The Bizmarck vs Dylan Hartley. Looking forward to that match up! I predict a first round knock-out to the battleship. I agree with Tac, Bokke by 12. They can’t match us up front.
8 Jun 2012, 12:20 pm
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-18: Jis meneer,
Lol, ironies ne
Wat is jou gevoel oor die wedstryd? Ek dink ons het genoeg skietgoed maar is dalk ‘n oud-Dagbreker te kort in die 22…
8 Jun 2012, 12:21 pm
@willievz(willievz)-21:
Ek dink ons sal hom vat. Dit gaan nie ‘n mooi oorwinning wees nie, maar oorwinning sal hy wees.
Ek sou enige dag eerder vir Gio as reserwe gehad het in plek van Wynand.
8 Jun 2012, 12:22 pm
its only a game
boks by 6
8 Jun 2012, 12:25 pm
Go bokke.
I love it when the bokke play the old enemy! Can’t wait, is this the first british team in SA since Lions tour?
8 Jun 2012, 12:25 pm
@willievz(willievz)-21: Was jy in Die Huis van Roem en Faam ? Ek was in September by die 90 jaar reunie!!
8 Jun 2012, 12:26 pm
@CharlesM(CharlesM)-25:
Ek was in die Huis, ek was ook by daardie reunie, was lekker om na die oud-Bokke te luister.
8 Jun 2012, 12:26 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-13: I can safely tell you now, that Heyneke Meyer’s tenure will end in tears for you, he will along with all the poor Afrikaner coaches the boks have had sink us us into disgrace.
Afrikaner coaches have all been poor because they are set in their ways regardless of changing circumstances, its not by chance that best coaches have been the English speaking lads, Kitch Christie 1995 World Cup winner, Nick Mallet World Record Unbeaten run, Jake White 2007 World Cup all in between Afrikaners phucking it up.
Heyneke has just began with selecting Wynand Olivier, it just a selection but it has deep underlying misguided beliefs. This will end in tears boys
8 Jun 2012, 12:31 pm
@capebull(capebull)-12:
exactly.. If anything there are more sharks 7 if including France Steyn! 10 including the bench!!
8 Jun 2012, 12:32 pm
This is the first time ever England are playing the Boks in Durban since the very first Test match between the two teams in 1906 in London.
Played 32
SA Won 19
SA Lost 12 (7 lost between 2000 – 2006)
Draw 1
10 Games played in SA. Boks have lost 3, won 7 on home soil. In 1972, 1994 and 2000. (All on the highveld)
Tomorrow is gonna be big !!
A first for Durbs too and I will be there at the park of KINGS!
8 Jun 2012, 12:33 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-27: HM coached the Stormers as an assistant and did SWD as well, plus he has prior Bok experience. His squad will evolve over time as will his strategy.
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-10: Stick your fin where the sun don’t shine.
8 Jun 2012, 12:34 pm
@John Galt(John Galt)-17: Looking good at this stage by the sounds of things?
8 Jun 2012, 12:34 pm
I’m half-way. 5-12 winning margain!
8 Jun 2012, 12:34 pm
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-26: @willievz(willievz)-16:Ek vra Verskoning , ek is net so moeg vir almal wat heeltyd kla, soos op post 27.
8 Jun 2012, 12:37 pm
@CharlesM(CharlesM)-25: Nee, maar ken die koshuis goed
8 Jun 2012, 12:40 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-27:
Seems to me you don’t like Afrikaners much.
Pity………….
8 Jun 2012, 12:42 pm
@Michael(mikeybrass)-30: Provincial/Franchise Rugby is chalk and cheese compared to Bok Rugby, we have seen sane, successful provincial lose it and go mad. Watch this space.
All Afrikaner Afrigters have screwed up the Boks without an exception since re-admission. Heyneke is just another example.
8 Jun 2012, 12:43 pm
@capebull(capebull)-12: I’m finding the lager mentality very funny from the Bulls supporters. HM is one of their own, so it’s to be expected.
8 Jun 2012, 12:47 pm
@Mr Black(Mr Black)-35: Its not about liking or disliking Afrikaner coach, the evidence against them is damning. I dare anyone to dispute my stated fact regarding how poor Afrikaners have been as Bok coaches.
Just being factual.
8 Jun 2012, 12:48 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-27:Thanks for that unbiased and non-racially based commentary on Springbok history.
Here is some facts ‘RacistKid’:
Nick Mallett 1997–2000 Win ratio 71%
Jake White 2004–2007 Win ratio 67%
Izak van Heerden 1962 Win ratio 75%
Boy Louw 1960–1961,1965 Win ratio 67%
Felix du Plessis 1964 Win ratio 100%
Danie Craven 1949–1956 Win ratio74%
8 Jun 2012, 12:50 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-38: Not to mention black coaches.
8 Jun 2012, 12:51 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-38: Also maybe look at some bad English coaches?
Ian McIntosh 1993–1994 Win ratio 33%
John Williams 1992 Win ratio 20%
You’re reasoning is blurred by racial and cultural motivation, not facts.
8 Jun 2012, 12:52 pm
Looks like there’s a XhosaKid on that chips shoulder…
8 Jun 2012, 12:53 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-38:
So using your anology would it be factual to say that Xhosa and Zulu speaking people make poor politicians. Looking at the state off the roads and municipalities.
You are a chop with a chip.
8 Jun 2012, 12:53 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-36: I’ll reserve judgement. He has been influenced by people like Nick and Alan
@BreakdownBoy(goodstuff)-39: Over lesser time periods. Anyways, XK is talking about post-readmission imo.
8 Jun 2012, 12:55 pm
@Tourettes(Tourettes)-8: That’s a very typical Tourettes outburst.
8 Jun 2012, 12:56 pm
@BreakdownBoy(goodstuff)-39: The operative word is re-admission, isolation years don’t count, the only English disaster was Ian Mac, the other English okes have been successes.
8 Jun 2012, 12:57 pm
@Tourettes(Tourettes)-8:
At least you acknowledge an England win would be an upset.
8 Jun 2012, 12:58 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-45:
8 Jun 2012, 12:59 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-38: That’s like saying the evidence against black politicians is damning, innit?
8 Jun 2012, 12:59 pm
@Die Griek(Die Griek)-40: Facts, don’t shoot the messenger.
8 Jun 2012, 13:00 pm
@Mr Black(Mr Black)-43: Ah, I see you got there first.
8 Jun 2012, 13:01 pm
It’s quite interesting how the sentiment about the English team on this site have chabged from “the poms are rubbish” to “it we will be a close game”. Are all the Bulls and Sharks supporters coming to their senses?
8 Jun 2012, 13:01 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-46: Your accusation and stereotyping only effects post admmission why, in your above statemnet you made no such specification.
“I can safely tell you now, that Heyneke Meyer’s tenure will end in tears for you, he will along with all the poor Afrikaner coaches the boks have had sink us us into disgrace.”
8 Jun 2012, 13:02 pm
@Mr Black(Mr Black)-43: Please provide statistical evidence, I can easily point you to John Williams, ( Lucky Gerry Sonnekus), Makgraaff, Du Plessis, Vijloen, Straueli unless you Afrikaners now reckon PDV is one of you, how ironic?
8 Jun 2012, 13:03 pm
@willievz(willievz)-21: Ag nee fok net nie Dagbreek nie. Julle ouens behoort mos te hou van die “hoofseun-mentaliteit” van HM en sy chronies.
8 Jun 2012, 13:04 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-50: Facts are facts, you state only your own opinion.
8 Jun 2012, 13:04 pm
Lancaster is not Johnson. The dinosaur England, built on belligerence and arrogance, has been replaced by a team with intelligence, humility and a great spirit of cohesion and teamwork. It has what all great teams have: Genuine strength of character.
In that sense the coaches are similar. HM starts with who you are, not what fancy skills you have, and he builds teams with that sense of all-for-one/one-for-all. The problem is that it’s not a just-add-water formula. It takes time to build trust, camaraderie and the consistent excellence that will emerge.
The new bok coach should have been announced immediately post RWC, and should have overlapped with the old one. Aside from player availabiltity consequences it would have allowed a longer runway for building the new cuture that is at the core of the discussion. I, for one, will be much more interested in whether HM has built the foundations of a great team than whether we get the bounce of the ball or not.
The Boks can win the game and the series, but our hope has to be that, win or lose, we see them announce a new era of intelligent, consistent and formidable bok rugby. It may be too much to expect but it is far from impossible.
HM whatever else you achieve tomorrow we would be thrilled to see the post 2007 clown show relegated to history. Please restore our pride and our hope.
8 Jun 2012, 13:05 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-50: As I say, according to your argument it would mean that in future all the black springbok coaches will be useless because De Villiers was useless. What a idiot.
8 Jun 2012, 13:06 pm
@pompies2(pompies2)-37: Nah mate, they are losing it and losing it fast. Every question, every opinion, every statement that has the words, Bulls or Meyer in it, is being pounced on. They are taking it far too personally, and I hope they get used to this, otherwise Meyer’s tenure is going to be more stressful for the Bulls fans than what it will be for Meyer himself. Did they expect people to just stop having opinions because Heyneke got the job?
You Bulls fans are not in homogeneous Kansas anymore…
8 Jun 2012, 13:07 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-49: show it, I can show mine, not that I disagree with the black politician incompetencies, O know some of these guys personally and they are useless pieces of shhyyyte.
8 Jun 2012, 13:09 pm
@lockforward.com(lockforward.com)-57: “a team with intelligence, humility and a great spirit of cohesion and teamwork”
Really, humility? Did you not see names like Ashton and Haskell on the team sheet?
8 Jun 2012, 13:09 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-46: ja sure…in any event, Jake and Kitch are/were honorary dutc.hmen
8 Jun 2012, 13:10 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-60: Don’t challenge me then if you agree with me. Regardless of how much it pains you.
8 Jun 2012, 13:10 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-10: Are you claiming to know exactly who voted for which result or are you just sucking this crapola out of your thumb as usual?
8 Jun 2012, 13:11 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-54: John Williams was a English bloke buudy.
8 Jun 2012, 13:12 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-54: Although I don’t appreciate the racial undertones appearing in your comments, I must agree with your assesment of some of the coaches since re-admission. I don’t think the fact that they are all Afrikaans speaking is a coincidence. Most of them obviously displayed the Afrikaner Laager mentatility that Skoppie often refers to. The only exception here might have been Carel du Plessis, but he wasn’t given enough time to prove himself. I would go even further to say that what we needed was a foreign coach to inject some finesse into our rugby, but instead we got HM and his “selgroepie” from Pretoria.
By the way I’m considered as an Afrikaner myself, so hear it from the horse’s mouth
8 Jun 2012, 13:12 pm
@BreakdownBoy(goodstuff)-65: Johannes willemse
8 Jun 2012, 13:13 pm
@BreakdownBoy(goodstuff)-53: you were quick to answer before reading the other post which clearly states the era I’m referring to, some of us don’t recognize the Boks before 1992 for obvious reasons I’m not prepared to go into.
8 Jun 2012, 13:15 pm
@BreakdownBoy(goodstuff)-56: You can choose to be an Ostrich and bury your head in the sand or you can look at the glaring statistics, facts.
8 Jun 2012, 13:15 pm
@TooMuchRugby(TooMuchRugby)-66: He’s a Yoofleaguer. Can’t help it – part of their manifesto.
8 Jun 2012, 13:15 pm
@BreakdownBoy(goodstuff)-65: John Williams was as Afrikaans as Brannewyn and Coke, same way Matfield is, even though they have English surnames.
8 Jun 2012, 13:16 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-61:
fark,
i want eben or coenie to say ‘howzit’ to that ashton preeck so bad…
8 Jun 2012, 13:18 pm
@houston, we have a problem…(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-72: Ashton is truly the HG of rugby players. To see him chow dirt at the hands of ANY Bok player will be special………
8 Jun 2012, 13:18 pm
@61: Yes. Both have histories of arrogance and ego-centricity, and neither will remain in the team if they are still that way. Haskell is my biggest surprise in their squad. He is a big man, but that’s about the most positive thing you could say about him. He’s going to hand us 3 to 9 points in penalties.
8 Jun 2012, 13:19 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-63: There’s a clip on Youtube where Tuilagi knocks out Ashton – might give you some pleasure
There also a clip where Haskell knocks over a journalist….
8 Jun 2012, 13:19 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-70: Just don’t point any glaring deficiences among his brethren
8 Jun 2012, 13:20 pm
So if we use this information vis-a-vis English/Afrikaans coaches maybe we should then think have an English head coach with Afrikaans assistants? The English guy will bring out and coach for the flair whereas the Afrikaans will be there to get the focus instilled in the team.
8 Jun 2012, 13:23 pm
@TooMuchRugby(TooMuchRugby)-75: The Haskell clip is as fake as he is.
Saw the Tuilagi combination – nice quick hands.
8 Jun 2012, 13:23 pm
@TooMuchRugby(TooMuchRugby)-55: Al die hoofseuns gaan Eendrag toe
Stellenbosch oor die algemeen het ‘n groot heldeverering vir HM, want daar is ‘n moerse klomp Bul-ondersteuners op daai kampus
8 Jun 2012, 13:24 pm
@BreakdownBoy(goodstuff)-65: John Williams was Afrikaans speaking.
8 Jun 2012, 13:25 pm
@lockforward.com(lockforward.com)-74: Looks like you managed to fill the back row berths quite well without him though, and then there’s also Tom Croft. And if you’re still short, we’ll send you some more
8 Jun 2012, 13:26 pm
@BreakdownBoy(goodstuff)-41: John Williams English speaking? HAHAHAHA. Also please look at the degree of intereference suffered by Ian Mac at the hands of Louis Luyt (another well known Engelsman ne?)
8 Jun 2012, 13:27 pm
@trupisero(trupisero)-76: He’s actually trawling the web as we speak for evidence of a decent black politician to put me in my place, but not even Google is that good.
8 Jun 2012, 13:27 pm
@Frenkly(FrenklyMuDeah)-80:
So what does he speak now?
8 Jun 2012, 13:28 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-83: NM?
8 Jun 2012, 13:28 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food(The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food)-73:
agreed.
will make a good win even better.
8 Jun 2012, 13:29 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-83:
Nelson Mandela?
8 Jun 2012, 13:29 pm
this English team is not a good team, they bearly scraped past Italy and Scotland, all thanks to two charge down tries. all this aside, if we cannot beat this team that they bring out on Saturday afternoon, what chance do we have against Australia and the All Blacks later this year.
8 Jun 2012, 13:29 pm
@lockforward.com(lockforward.com)-57: good post!
8 Jun 2012, 13:29 pm
@TooMuchRugby(TooMuchRugby)-66:
Carel du Plessis was hard done by.
He had a fantastic philosophy, oh what could have been.
(Wasn’t Keohane involved back then in getting Carel du Plessis axed?)
8 Jun 2012, 13:32 pm
@Beertjie(Beertjie)-85: @WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-87: Besides the obvious ONE?
8 Jun 2012, 13:32 pm
@BreakdownBoy(goodstuff)-65: Please! John Williams is as Afrikaans as they come in all but his name – in fact – in 1976 a Broederbond plot to oust Morne du Plessis as Bok captain was revealed by the Sunday Times. It was felt that he was “too English”. And hbis replacement was to be? Yes you guessed it, John Williams. Williams is a ******** man!
8 Jun 2012, 13:32 pm
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-90:
Maybe Mark got a Sniff that something was out of Line
8 Jun 2012, 13:33 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-91: Heyneke can be the Mandela of rugby coaches
8 Jun 2012, 13:34 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-68: Aren’t we lucky to have you on board , self confessed ” before 1992 ” I had no interest in Rugby” , but my opion is worth more than gold.
So Mr: know it all , whats wrong with SA soccer, at least Rugby with all its useless afrikaner coaches we won WC 2 and are number 1-4 in rankings.
Bafana still dropping, number 100 here we come.
8 Jun 2012, 13:35 pm
@greybeard(greybeard)-92: So now d*u*t*c*h is a swear word? O fok!
8 Jun 2012, 13:35 pm
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-90: no he was busy with something else , we are not allowed to mention.
8 Jun 2012, 13:35 pm
@Beertjie(Beertjie)-94:
I hope so.
8 Jun 2012, 13:36 pm
@capebull(capebull)-95: Soccer’s problem is there is no political interference.
8 Jun 2012, 13:38 pm
@capebull(capebull)-95: You know, in his defence, Xhosa kid is not saying that Afrikaners are useless – your own lager mentality might deduce that but he isnt saying that at all. He is simply pointing out that English speakers have, in the main, been far more successful than Afr speakers since readmission. And that in a rugby culture that is predominantly Afirkaans. Im sure the reasons for this are many and complex, and not simply a matter of language or genetic makeup. Cultural factors no doubt come into play – Id like ot see a study done of this. FAct is, Xhosa kid makes a valid point, and instead of readjusting the chips on our own shoulders, we should ask ourselves why this is? I for one believe that Meyer will bean exceptionally good coach.
8 Jun 2012, 13:42 pm
Rugby = for the Afrikaans ppl (white & brown)
Cricket = for the rooi nekke
Soccer = for the Xhosas & Zulu’s
8 Jun 2012, 13:43 pm
@grant10(grant100)-101:
Simplistic bulls*h*i*t like this = for idiots like yourself
8 Jun 2012, 13:44 pm
@greybeard(greybeard)-100: Don’t sugarcoat it.
8 Jun 2012, 13:45 pm
Must be an incredible collection of rugby academics on this blog. People who know that genetically Afrikaners are doomed to failure as coaches (unless they cleverly conceal their roots with an English name), certain players chosen for the greatest honours will never make the grade because of their affiliation to a certain Super 15 franchise, and best kept secret, new England lock is actually a wannabe Afrikaans coach who is going to derail England’s efforts through genetic engineering (was placed there by well known Jewish philanthropist and academic Errol Tobias).
8 Jun 2012, 13:48 pm
Most players in starting 15 arent Bulls, so why all the uproar?
8 Jun 2012, 13:48 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-103: That wasnt my intention kat – I was just saying listen to what Xhoas kis is actually saying before we all get hysterical. The truth might set us all free
8 Jun 2012, 13:48 pm
@willievz(willievz)-79: Nee die nerds gaan Eendrag toe, hoofseuns na Dagbreek
Die BB ondersteuners is seker a.g.v. al die ryk transvaalse pappies wat hulle bloedjies na die “Afrikaanse” universiteit toe wil stuur.
8 Jun 2012, 13:49 pm
@Frenkly(FrenklyMuDeah)-104: hahaha – I think you mean Philip not Errol
8 Jun 2012, 13:50 pm
@greybeard(greybeard)-106: I read what he wrote, over several posts. There was no ambiguity.
8 Jun 2012, 13:51 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-109: OK Point taken – I still think there might just be a reason why English speakers have been successful coaches. Perhaps a more cosmopolitan culture? Just a suggestion – I’d like to see a proper study made of this topic.
8 Jun 2012, 13:52 pm
@TooMuchRugby(TooMuchRugby)-75: Loved it, what a t wat! I truly hope he tries his tough-guy act with Alberts or Etsebeth…This is what he looks like after a fight …. http://bit.ly/Lsf5oL
Rubbish punch though….If Tuilagi learned to **** his wrist he would have KO’d him.
Here’s a cool clip of the d oos getting smashed by Bobo (around the 1:08 mark) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ00btQiqdU&feature=related
8 Jun 2012, 13:52 pm
@greybeard(greybeard)-108: No, he’s talking about the dark skinned Jewish philantropist who ran out at 10 for the Boks the last time we put these Poms to the sword at Ellis Park
8 Jun 2012, 13:53 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-112: dman these jews are clever!
8 Jun 2012, 13:55 pm
In the ideal world I would have given the Poms a slight advantage playing at Durban
In the real world however, Steve Walsh is confirmed a referee on the taking, could be that the Poms – who themselves no stranger to ‘influence’ test referee – already took a counter measure but I doubt it
Most pundits believe Walsh will swing it in favour of the Boks, a 10-13 margin is reasonable to expect.
8 Jun 2012, 13:56 pm
Tobias? So quotas started in the 1980′s ??
8 Jun 2012, 13:58 pm
@Frenkly(FrenklyMuDeah)-104:
One of the best ever!
8 Jun 2012, 13:59 pm
@grant10(grant100)-115: Yeah man, he was the first, although he was quite good though.
8 Jun 2012, 14:03 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-63: Does it pain me as much as it pains Afrikaner to know that they have been useless at Bok management?, that must really hurt.
8 Jun 2012, 14:04 pm
@Hondo(Hondo)-114: Is there a ref about whom you don’t have a conspiracy theory?
8 Jun 2012, 14:04 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-118: Piss off, kid. Take your tendencies elsewhere.
8 Jun 2012, 14:05 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-118: Useless is a very strong word Xk – Id still rather have Strauli than PDivvy any day
8 Jun 2012, 14:06 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-112:
June 1884?
Avril Williams had no business being there, Neil Burger was far better
But Tobias was more than just a good sub for Naas, unless you meant to Prof Tobias from the Wits Medical School who was in genetics and pathology?
8 Jun 2012, 14:07 pm
@TooMuchRugby(TooMuchRugby)-66: Didn’t mean no for no racial undertones, just merely pointing out the elephant in the room.
8 Jun 2012, 14:09 pm
@Hondo(Hondo)-122: I was there, 11 years old. My first test. My dad, my brother and I sat up on the second level behind the posts on the north stand. I think the score was big – thirty something to 9. Awesome.
8 Jun 2012, 14:13 pm
I love it
team has mostly Sharks in and the BUlls okes taking the flack, sounds right to me 
8 Jun 2012, 14:14 pm
@greybeard(greybeard)-110:
Basil Kenyon, Ceccil Moss, Ian Mc, Kitch Christie, Mallett, JW
As opposed to:
N. Smith, John Williams, Carl Dup, Harry Viljon, PdV
(Strauli is a Swiss person, got to rule him out)
But then where would you place Dr Craven?
8 Jun 2012, 14:14 pm
@greybeard(greybeard)-121:
Yoh, that’s a kakkest post I’ve ever read on Keo.
8 Jun 2012, 14:15 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-123:
Have you been to the bush yet?
8 Jun 2012, 14:17 pm
@greybeard(greybeard)-121: You must be out of your mind? Strauli was the biggest and I mean the biggest embarrassment in bok history.
PDV won us a lions tour and tri nations. I blame Hoskins for setting PDV up for failure, calling him a token appointment at the announcement! Hoskins should have been fired for that, even when it was true, PDV did not need that being said by his own boss!!!
I’ve already forgotten what PDV said during his rain, but I will never forget that Kamp Staaldraat saga.
8 Jun 2012, 14:18 pm
Xhosakid, the boks don’t need supporters like you.. go watch banana bafana play and get moered by Somalia or something …
8 Jun 2012, 14:20 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-124:
3 Gerbers’ tries, that was magic
I was home back on a end of the year university break from overseas, watched it on the TV
There is no such talent anymore in thec ontemporary Bok teams,
8 Jun 2012, 14:22 pm
@capebull(capebull)-95: Clearly you are challenged man, I didn’t say I wasn’t interested in rugby prior to 1992, quite the contrary for that matter, its just that its difficult to measure real worth of a player or manager prior to re-admission, my old man, bless his soul, died still convinced that Peter Mkata was peerless as a flyhalf, Naas Botha wasn’t fit to shine his boots
8 Jun 2012, 14:22 pm
@BreakdownBoy(goodstuff)-129:
Wrong!
Bryce Lawrence won us the Lions Series, swinging it for the Boks at the Durban test
give credit when it’s due
8 Jun 2012, 14:26 pm
@Hondo(Hondo)-131: Ja, those tries were amazing. All scored in a 20 minute spell in the first half (and unfortunately for us, on the far side of the field). But that fcked the Poms up completely.
8 Jun 2012, 14:26 pm
Why for the love of god is Wynand Olivier back in the springbok team? He cannot produce at this level period
8 Jun 2012, 14:27 pm
@BreakdownBoy(goodstuff)-129: “PDV won us a lions tour and tri nations.”
Bolloks about Lions series, PDV scr*wed up with his substitutions each time and 1st Test Bryce’s wizardry at the scrums gave Boks penlty of 3pointers and Smit cheating his way back to the pitch after being subbed steadied the fast sinking ship, while in the 2nd Test the Bryce Almighty saved Boks from playing whole damn game with 14 men.
Thank Bryce, ungrateful. 8)
8 Jun 2012, 14:28 pm
Xhosakid … Peter Mkata will look good in that mickey mouse standard rugby …. Its like Fourie Dup & J Fourie looking untouchable in Japan.
8 Jun 2012, 14:28 pm
@dquinn25(dquinn25)-135:
Which union does Wynand play for?
8 Jun 2012, 14:28 pm
@capebull(capebull)-95: Exactly the bonehead mentality I’m referring to, what makes you think Bafana Bafana is a domain for blacks and not you as an Afrikaner. Bafana Bafana is your team as much as the Springboks are my team, Bafana’s performance or lack thereof should concren you as much as Bok performance concerns you.
8 Jun 2012, 14:29 pm
The Afrikaners are previously disadvantaged by British oppression and are consequently not accountable for their actions or inactions. The English are currently disadvantaged by their limited claims to previous disadvantage. Female bok coaches have lost fewer games than either English or Afrikaans male coaches. Less talented players have been under-represented over the years and there should be a quota policy. Blind players are less common than blind refs – there has to be conspiracy.
No wait, here’s a crazy pattern worthy of study: Coaches with successful track records are generally more successful as national head coaches than those without. Strange.
8 Jun 2012, 14:30 pm
Greybeard.
You raise a difficult one here.
Why indeed since readmission have Souties had the better results by Far? And they have people.
Related to what Greybeard raised earlier, Craven was very much not a Broeder.
How many succesful Captains in a heavily Afrikaaner dominated playing comunity have their been since isolation.
Why do the Souties seem to take such predominant leadership roles within SA rugby. Most of the best players are boertjies by far. Their is definately a pattern here.
What do you think it illustrates?
8 Jun 2012, 14:30 pm
even A Coetzee looked like a awesome player in the SARU days … when he started playing for EP in the Currie Cup he was shocking to say the least!
8 Jun 2012, 14:30 pm
@dquinn25(dquinn25)-135: He has to score his 2nd try sometime – the first one vs the real rugby nation. Give him a few dozen more opportunitites, he’ll do it, just watch. 8)
8 Jun 2012, 14:32 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-118: I always thought it was a pity stupidity doesn’t hurt, in your case thanks for proving me wrong
.
8 Jun 2012, 14:34 pm
@Frenkly(FrenklyMuDeah)-144: now THAT was a stupid comment
8 Jun 2012, 14:35 pm
@Frenkly(FrenklyMuDeah)-144: Cant disprove what he says logically so get personal – works for most 10 year olds in the playground too – A*r*s*e*h*o*l*e
8 Jun 2012, 14:36 pm
@greybeard(greybeard)-145: Given time you’ll get it.
8 Jun 2012, 14:37 pm
@lockforward.com(lockforward.com)-140:
I’m busy reading Martin Meredith’s The State of Africa. He has an interesting theory that the brutal scorched earth policy and internment of women and children in concentration camps by the British during the Anglo-Boer helped foster a rampant and fierce Afrikaner nationalism that ultimately led to apartheid.
8 Jun 2012, 14:38 pm
@greybeard(greybeard)-146: Please get your hands out your pockets you’re spending too much time at kiddies playgrounds and giving them far too much credit
8 Jun 2012, 14:38 pm
@Frenkly(FrenklyMuDeah)-147: Dont kid yourself – it really is patently obvious what you meant
8 Jun 2012, 14:39 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-109: For your information go read my original post, I stated FACTS, i.e. The English blokes are by far the most successful coaches as opposed to every Afrikaner failures without exception, all Afrikaners have failed as Bok coaches since re-admission, this a FACTUAL statement.
I then ventured an OPINION, that the probably reason for this Afrikaner FAILURE might be their misguided obdurance, highlighted in Heyneke Meyer by rewarding a proven International failure like Wynand Olivier, who after countless opportunities has failed dismally.
8 Jun 2012, 14:39 pm
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-148:
Or, at least, the fierce nationalism was a strong contributing factor to apartheid being adopted.
8 Jun 2012, 14:39 pm
@Frenkly(FrenklyMuDeah)-149: Nope just went to school when i was young – unlike one or two people who havent moved past that kind of logic – now f*u*c*k off and annoy somebody else
8 Jun 2012, 14:41 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-151: Dont cast pearls before swine Xk – they miss your point and are not going to get it. I however agree with you
8 Jun 2012, 14:43 pm
@the artist formerly known as gunther(gunther)-128: Yes, your Royal, I have been to the mountain, don’t even suggest my out of order, “chacharaga” behave of pointing out this gigantic elephant in the room has anything to do with the mountain. LOL!!
8 Jun 2012, 14:44 pm
@greybeard(greybeard)-150: We all know what I meant but read the statement “Does it pain me as much as it pains Afrikaner to know that they have been useless at Bok management?, that must really hurt.” Why would it pain him, could only think of the one reason, stupidity, doeasn’t pain anyone else.
8 Jun 2012, 14:44 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-132:
Ag ja-wat my boi.
Our proud rugby heritage prior to 1992 is acknowledged everywhere in the world, and we are still building upon it.
But you will compromize exposing yourself to all who care to read your comments and damn Afrikaners from our history and oppose that.
Coaches were once players afterall.
Without Afrikaners, pre- or post 1992, there IS NO RUGBY CULTURE in this country worth mentioning.
And our current team is 90%+ Afrikaans.
Although I did chuckle a bit at your comment 60:
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-60:
Nee jong boetie, don’t bite the hand that feeds you. You’ll be out of your Coastal getaway before you can say “Afrocentric self-entitlement”
And keo.co.za, have you okes always allowed such blantant racist remarks, or
A) You forgot what dusty shelf you left that rusty banhammer on (either that or Skoppie has worn the thing out)
B) You like a bit of stirring- good for hits and refreshes?
Well actually decent bloggers have less to say in that case.
8 Jun 2012, 14:45 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-151: Fact, opinion, tomayto, tomahto. You still sounded like a chip-on-the-shoulder twat.
8 Jun 2012, 14:45 pm
@greybeard(greybeard)-153: If you went to school it certainly doesn’t show.
8 Jun 2012, 14:46 pm
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-152:
‘Laager mentality’
Not to be confused with lager mentality, which is primarily a student problem
8 Jun 2012, 14:47 pm
LOL @ my boi!!!
8 Jun 2012, 14:47 pm
@Frenkly(FrenklyMuDeah)-159: very funny coming from you – I’m mortally wounded and will retire to lick my wounds
8 Jun 2012, 14:48 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-158:
8 Jun 2012, 14:49 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-151:
OK, a small handful of coaches since 1992 have a poor track record and happen to be Afrikaans too.
Wonderful sample group you have there to damn Heyneke Meyer as an Afrikaner and then insult the rest of us.
Ai, arme Pietie de Villers, kry dit seker van albei kante af nou.
8 Jun 2012, 14:49 pm
@greybeard(greybeard)-162: Should be easy, your tongues probably still out from the playground. Cheers all,
8 Jun 2012, 14:49 pm
eish its politics again, :sigh:
8 Jun 2012, 14:50 pm
@grant10(grant100)-137: Hence, I didn’t want to enter the pre 1992 debate.
8 Jun 2012, 14:50 pm
@Hondo(Hondo)-133: Whatever makes your racist brain sleep at night.
8 Jun 2012, 14:50 pm
@148: traditional Afrikaans lore goes much further, recounting years pre-independence in which their language, culture and values were subject to British eradication tactics.
Be that as it may, we do best to ignore the idiots and be color-blind, culture-blind, gender-blind etc. At this level proven competence is what matters. The good news is that we have a coach with a great track record; I don’t care whether or not he has freckles, believes in a flat earth, or spends his spare time playing the nose flute.
8 Jun 2012, 14:50 pm
@Frenkly(FrenklyMuDeah)-165: your own obvious pedifilia made that connection – wouldnt have occurred to me
8 Jun 2012, 14:50 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-155:
as long as they didn’t throw away the wrong bit.
8 Jun 2012, 14:51 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-164: well Xhosa’s way of this is of such, then we can say of blacks, they do all the crime and rape and murder etc, lets also generalise
Because according to his way of thinking all Afrikaners are bad blah blah blah
8 Jun 2012, 14:54 pm
@lockforward.com(lockforward.com)-169:
I care if our coach is a member of the flat earth society (if you can call it a society), how is he going to factor in for the coriolis effect on those moerse Steyn bombs?
AHA some holes in your argument I’ve exposed there…hmmmm….
8 Jun 2012, 14:54 pm
@greybeard(greybeard)-154: There is no point. Stereo typing on their language, race or ethnicity is just stupid and wrong. Half of those coaches have either an Afrikaans uncle, mother or father.
So what are thet then Engrikaans?
All the bok coaches where South Africans if not then they were all human. WTF those it matter which cultural group is the better coach, only people looking to probegate racial hate and prejudice will even start an argument or try to make a ‘point’.
8 Jun 2012, 14:54 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-155: You are making predictions based on a sample of 5. Good luck with that.
In the same way I can state only Afrikaans coaches have won the Super 15 and therefore it may make them successful.
Your prediction is similar to the predictions last year where everyone said if you want to win a World Cup you need the best 9 in the world (Nick Farr Jones, Joost, Gregan, Dawson, du Preez) and a 12 that can play 10 (Horan, le Roux, Horan, Catt, Steyn), but then the All Blacks picked Weepu and Nonu and won the comp.
8 Jun 2012, 14:55 pm
pedifilia?
you have a foot fetish ougreydoos?
8 Jun 2012, 14:56 pm
@Frenkly(FrenklyMuDeah)-144: Myself and Stupidity in one sentence, never thought that would ever happen, well…
8 Jun 2012, 14:57 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-68:
You can’t just cherry pick a certain section coaches that happen to agree to your twisted, reverse-racist agenda.
8 Jun 2012, 14:59 pm
@BreakdownBoy(goodstuff)-174: BB I agree with you fully – but that doesnt mean that Xk’s observation was not an interesting point and one that I have sometimes pondered. Just because he mentioned it doesnt mean that everybody with a chip on their own shoulders should react in that way. Even though we are all Souht Africans we do indeed come from different cultural groupings and that to me is our biggest strength. As an English speaking South African I am proud of the afrikaner’s rugby contribution – equally I am proud that my own grouping has produced rugby thinkers like Mallet and Christie. Im not saying anything is good or bad – although Xk may have strayed there while counterpunching. Just look at who we all are and rejoice in our diversity which makes us strong.
8 Jun 2012, 15:00 pm
@the artist formerly known as gunther(gunther)-176: you find typos funny? how interesting
8 Jun 2012, 15:01 pm
@173: is Kings Park oriented North-South? The coriolus effect is orthogonal to the direction of rotation. Having said that a coach that believes in the solar system might consider adjusting for slower ball speed relative to the sun for evening games.
8 Jun 2012, 15:04 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-177:
And that my friends is a tautology
Sorry I crack myself up sometimes.
Ok let’s be objective for a bit. How about an educated opinion?
Let’s turn to science, something that is observable, testable, demonstrable, repeatable.
Here we, check this out:
Dr. James Watson, Nobel Prize winning geneticist.
He claims that blacks are less intelligent than whites.
Sorry dude, he has a PhD AND the Nobel Prize, I’m going with him on this one.
8 Jun 2012, 15:07 pm
@hensopper1(hensopper1)-141:
That non-Afrikaans players get all uppity when one of their own can’t be in charge?
8 Jun 2012, 15:09 pm
@Nils(Nils)-136:
Brycie Boy swinged it in the 1st Test, the Poms are still fuming about it
The Frenchman did it in the 2nd Test, and I am still to see a video clip which shows where Fourie feet were when he scored, the touch side angle was never shown on TV, while Brussow did the fastest thinking, concealing JF’s foot from the camera behind them
8 Jun 2012, 15:10 pm
@lockforward.com(lockforward.com)-181: Maybe it’ll help Timotei pass a ball. Imagine.
8 Jun 2012, 15:14 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-182:
Ah, scientific racism.
8 Jun 2012, 15:14 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-182: You really know how to silence a room
8 Jun 2012, 15:15 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-182: That’s a BIT of a simplification of what his research said.
8 Jun 2012, 15:17 pm
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-186:
@Atreides(Atreides)-187:
Hey, why not?
Tell me, if you’re generalizing and being racist, what can be more refreshing than including the entire damn race.
Enough of this petty squabbling about Afrikaners and Xhosas, I think I did him a favour.
8 Jun 2012, 15:18 pm
@Atreides(Atreides)-188:
Come now, no need to reproduce the facts and figures of a lifetime of work and reseach, surely
I simply follow the Xhosakid method. Keeping in the spirit of things, wouldn’t you say?
8 Jun 2012, 15:19 pm
@TooMuchRugby(TooMuchRugby)-107:
Nie in my jare nie.
Die hoofseuns was Eendrag toe, en die hoofmeisies Nerina toe.
Deesdae verstaan ek die hoofmeisies gaan Sonop toe, en die hoofseuns word versprei.
Ja ek dink jy slaan die spyker op die kop re die Transvaalse pappas, maar daai bloubloed en lager-mentaliteit is nie welkom in die mooiste Kaap nie
8 Jun 2012, 15:19 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-189: Not defending him, believe me…think he’s a racist d oos. I’m sure he has a farm attack to go celebrate.
8 Jun 2012, 15:20 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-157: Sorry Boss, I wasn’t insulting Afrikaner or disputing Afrikaner contribution to South African Rugby, I was merely looking at the glaring factual evidence that since 1992, Afrikaners have failed dismally at coaching the Springbok since 1992, WITH ALL DUE RESPECT.
How about engaging the stuff between the ears and try to undress what could be the root cause of this clear failure instead of shooting the messenger, must a prominent Afrikaner raise this same point in order for you okes to have a look at it.
8 Jun 2012, 15:22 pm
@Atreides(Atreides)-192: good one Atreides – when in doubt play the man and not the ball
8 Jun 2012, 15:22 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-164: If you find a single post of mine where I have been insulting to Afrikaner, please highlight it.
8 Jun 2012, 15:24 pm
@greybeard(greybeard)-179: He never strayed. His choice of words shouted of prejudice and hate from the word go. He tries to provoke and entice.
8 Jun 2012, 15:24 pm
@the artist formerly known as gunther(gunther)-171: I would have assured that its all intact and doing a “spear-heading” good “job”….
!!
8 Jun 2012, 15:26 pm
@BreakdownBoy(goodstuff)-196: Well I didnt see it that way – there are far worse trolls on this site I can assure you, most of whom I try to ignore. I dont think he was trying to do that but I stand corrected if he was. My bad.
8 Jun 2012, 15:28 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-193:
As I mentioned above, your sample group means nothing and has absolutely no bearing on the current coach. How about we include ALL Afrikaans coaches for a more reasonable estimate since it really is about race, isn’t it?
I mean, let’s be honest, it really is to you.
Now you see, you revised your stance because you don’t want to. If it is about race, then isolation shouldnt matter.
How very convenient for you.
8 Jun 2012, 15:28 pm
@Nils(Nils)-143: He is useless on attack, it amazes me that years back some of the great players amassed 25 caps in a 10 year career, Olivier has 30 odd caps already and has not produced a single decent performance in one test. This guy makes most cats jeallous with the amount of lives he has
8 Jun 2012, 15:30 pm
XhosaKid.
You made a good point bro. Nobody has really answered it, and I for one did not see how you offended anybody.
Afrikaaners have made a core contribution to South African Rugby, indeed World rugby. The references to ‘South African History’ as discussed above are right from the textbook I was told to study at school. Lot’s of ‘us and them’ stuff going on here. Even Paul Roos lead the way long before the colour Issue began to be adressed much later. A core code of the new sprinboks on that first Bok tour was to put the hatred of the Boer war behind them and to play united as Sprinboks.
8 Jun 2012, 15:31 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-193: The only prediction that can be made today is that your illogical thinking is quite predictable. The sample size is quite large!
8 Jun 2012, 15:33 pm
@greybeard(greybeard)-179: I do however conced that the selections of those coaches was poor, their first language had nothing to do with it however.
Each one of those coaches did something good to be selected as bok coach. Struali (the *** that he was) gained a lot of success with the Sharks.
It also has a lo to do with the talent available to a coach. Look at PDV, he benefitted from having some of the best Springbok talent ever to wear the gree nand gold, Strauli on the other hand had some of the worst boks ever to see the green and gold.
8 Jun 2012, 15:34 pm
Yussus… Xhosaumfaan is farken stirring up a hornets nest…
The cheeky little watson….
8 Jun 2012, 15:34 pm
@Stormers supporters: Cry me a river!(Horings)-175: If I take your argument that only Afrikaner Afrigters have won Super Rugby, I would say yes, you are right, I wouldn’t dispute obvious facts, like you guys are doing with my assertion. In fact I would go as far as to explain why is it that the Afrikaner Afrigter has been successful at Super15, the answer is that at Super15, there is enough time for him to create certain homogeneity, which is easier to obtain as opposed to brief spells at International level, so the uniqueness of each environment is exactly what separates English okes from Afrikaner okes at Bok level.
8 Jun 2012, 15:34 pm
@greybeard(greybeard)-194: You know nothing about this, or why I say what I say. And it’s not about just today. K? Try not to sound so outraged.
8 Jun 2012, 15:35 pm
Kom ons wees eerlik.
Goeie Afrikaanse afrigters is so skaars soos hoendertande.
Veral op skoolvlak.
As jy LO geswot het of brannewyn en coke suip saam met die manne beteken dit nie jy is ‘n goeie rugby-afrigter nie.
8 Jun 2012, 15:38 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-205: Well the most succeessful coach in Springbok history won a super trophy and also left out WP lovechilds to the disgust of their supporters. The predictable power from of a sample of one is as weak as 5, so I will go with my prediction.
8 Jun 2012, 15:40 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-182: I would like to have a sample he used to arrive at that conclusion, he might be right for all I know, maybe we blacks are daft, I must say I have seen factual evidence of our daftness, just didn’t think we are born with it, but had thought its consequence of our limited upbringing. The Phd fellow might be right, now that I think about it, I hope I’m not damn as well, shhyyt!!, that would explain a lot of things, LOL!!!!, life is too short to take it this seriously.
8 Jun 2012, 15:41 pm
@willievz(willievz)-191: Ek mag dalk verkeerd wees. Kan nie onthou nie – was in Simonsberg – te veel gesuip.
8 Jun 2012, 15:41 pm
@BreakdownBoy(goodstuff)-203: Again I agree fully with your assessment. However, there is something subtle in the way a coach manages his players that I still after nearly 50 years of playing, coaching reffing and watching this beautiful game dont quite get. Its often about people as much as about anything else, and over a beer we could discuss this till the cows came home.
For instance, prior to our 2007 World Cup triumph, I had the privilege of listening to Andre Watson talk. He spoke about what an indefinable presence John Smit was in that team, and how he seemed to bind the disparate elements together. Now i dont want to get into a debate about the 2010-11 John Smit here – I am just making the point that teams are strange amorphous things, that respond in different ways to different types of leadership. I am convinced that the coach’s input is far more important than we have ever actually admitted. And why shouldnt a coach’s home language have an impact? The language we speak colours the way we see the world, and how we deal with others. I have worked for different bosses of different genders and language groups and also racial groups and I can assure you that this indefinable something comes into play daily. Why not in a rugby team too?
8 Jun 2012, 15:42 pm
@Stormers supporters: Cry me a river!(Horings)-202:
OK guys, back to rugby I guess.
Enough of this race stuff. I’m really tired of it now.
How about some prediction on how our debutant Afrikaans lockpiaring will do?
Does anyone foresee that they might become as legendary as our previous Afrikaner lockpairing?
They will be facing an Afrikaner, Botha, whom England took on as a choice enforcer.
Do you guys think that our Afrikaner centre will only maim or paralyse England?
At least we have a more or less trust Afrikaner halfback pair that have played together all season, so I think that is a good foundation to carry us.
I’m really impressed by our all-Afrikaans backrow, I think under his mentor, Spies will pull his socks up, if anybody can get the best out of Spies, it’s our Afrikaans coach Heyneke. And we shoudl hope so and be glad about it.
Our Afrikaans bothers in the frontrow have been together since….well, since birth I suppose, and they are the rock in our scrum.
I actually have high hopes for our honourary Afrikaans back three, Zane perhaps kucky to be there. Heavens, we almost had an English laaitie at 15..
8 Jun 2012, 15:42 pm
@greybeard(greybeard)-198: No bad, maybe his wording was just placed in place of excitement or frustration. Whatever, I also just think its stupid thinking a person’s first language will determine his/ her success in anything besides linguistics based on totally different people who share that language.
8 Jun 2012, 15:42 pm
@Atreides(Atreides)-206: well perhaps that makes me better able to see today’s posts in their correct context? Just a thought. However, I wont get in the way again – would hate to get shot in the crossfire.
8 Jun 2012, 15:43 pm
Howzit WillieVZ.
An Afrikaaner who does’nt piss his pants when a viable point is made.
Nice one, very true. Let me share your sentiment and restate my respect for Afrikaaners
in general and for the pride I have in Afrikaaner segment in my background.
Great Afrikaaner players are endemic! not always so regarding coaches it would seem.
Why?
8 Jun 2012, 15:43 pm
@greybeard(greybeard)-211: I guess you have a point.
8 Jun 2012, 15:44 pm
@Atreides(Atreides)-192: Farm attack?, me?, thats not my style, maybe my comrade Juju or Ronald Lamola, that’s they modus operandi
8 Jun 2012, 15:44 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-212: I was not racist , I meant Stormers supporters.
8 Jun 2012, 15:45 pm
@hensopper1(hensopper1)-215: Maybe all the English players always laugh when he says “jean pants’…
8 Jun 2012, 15:46 pm
Why are so many of us diverse peoples drawn to this English Language site?
8 Jun 2012, 15:46 pm
@hensopper1(hensopper1)-215: A million dollar question and possible PhD-topic, if you ask me.
8 Jun 2012, 15:48 pm
@BreakdownBoy(goodstuff)-219: Or “Pass the ball wiff the other hand”
8 Jun 2012, 15:49 pm
@Stormers supporters: Cry me a river!(Horings)-218:
All tongue in cheek
8 Jun 2012, 15:50 pm
@hensopper1(hensopper1)-220: You’re diverse? S*h*i*t I’m as one dimensional as they come
8 Jun 2012, 15:50 pm
@BreakdownBoy(goodstuff)-196: What really provoked you?, is me saying it or its the fact I’m referring to or maybe both.
8 Jun 2012, 15:51 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-223: Sorry, I meant to use a smily face, but I don’t do smily faces.
8 Jun 2012, 15:53 pm
@Stormers supporters: Cry me a river!(Horings)-202: Big words to confuse my little mind, I take that, now would you care to venture an opinion why Afrikaner Afrigters have been so poor since re-admission?, no big words please!!
8 Jun 2012, 15:56 pm
@Stormers supporters: Cry me a river!(Horings)-226:
Jissie boet, a smiley face was the difference between Germany invading Russia or not during WWII.
Careful.
They thought they should retain brevity for the telegram’s sake, and look what happened.
8 Jun 2012, 15:56 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-227: In all fairness I think BreakdownBoy is correct in the assessment that Strauli had poor material to work with. John Williams had a team that was internationally inexperienced, Harry Viljoen – well who knows? I also think that Christie took over a team that was just hardening and peaking at the right time, as did Mallet. White on the other hand developed a group that admittedly were amongst the most talented weve seen – remember tey had won the underage world cup most of them. I think luck has a lot to do with it too, but in the end its how you mage what you do have that lifts the great ones from the also rans.
8 Jun 2012, 15:57 pm
mage = manage before Cunther thinks thats funny too
8 Jun 2012, 15:57 pm
@Stormers supporters: Cry me a river!(Horings)-208: So, you would rather we hypothesis about a future event, i.e. Heyneke’s imminent success or failure as a Bok Afrikaner Afrigter or we use the existing information we have at Bok Level?
8 Jun 2012, 15:59 pm
WillieVZ.
I think we all offer different stuff to this melting pot. All of us with a brain acknowledge the Core role of Afrikaaner influence on rugby. Happy and proud of it too, but I think Souties, I refrain from calling Souties English, Those are the people in White we are playing on Saturday, Add a dimension culturally, as do other non Afrikaaner groups.
I think that the Education and leadership aspects of population groups in South Africa, of which Afrikaaners are not an exception, are still recovering from deep socio political damage, incured over years of cultural isolation and mis-engineering.
8 Jun 2012, 15:59 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-227:
What is this? a red herring?
They haven’t been poor, huge annual salaries and all expenses paid since we went professional.
8 Jun 2012, 16:00 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-227: Because all the Afrikaans Afrigters we had were s h i t and did not have any real success before they became Springbok coach. The most successful coaches before Heyneke and Ludeke were Ian Mac, Christie and Jake. I can’t remember Mallett’s records before he became coach.
8 Jun 2012, 16:02 pm
@Stormers supporters: Cry me a river!(Horings)-234: Very valid point in the case of Carel du Plessis – zero experience when he took over the Boks. Good post!
8 Jun 2012, 16:04 pm
At the risk of ‘causing hurt’, in the manner of the great and mighty feelings of the even greater and mighty leader leader of South Africa,
Check out the disproportionate number of Soutie Bok Captains too.
8 Jun 2012, 16:04 pm
@Stormers supporters: Cry me a river!(Horings)-234: Mallet I seem to recall had done a huge job with Boland…..
8 Jun 2012, 16:05 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-231: We are both doing the same. The question we want answered is will Heyneke be successful or not. You say no, because he is Afrikaans. I say yes he will because he has Super rugby success. Both of us have small samples, although mine were taken from a much smaller population size.
The big difference between my test and yours is that my conclusion is based on rugby and yours on language. Now tell me with which one is the entire test more correlated, rugby or language?
8 Jun 2012, 16:06 pm
@hensopper1(hensopper1)-236: Do you have a reference where one could check? I’d be very interested. Could it have something to do with one culture that essentially looks outward while the other looks inward? And that is not a criticism, its an observation.
8 Jun 2012, 16:09 pm
OK is this list accurate?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_African_rugby_union_captains
8 Jun 2012, 16:11 pm
@greybeard(greybeard)-229: Kitch took over from a diabolic Ian Mac, He picked Francois Pienaar ahead of Strauss, he played Mark Andrews at 8thman in the most important game of his life, that’s imagination and changing to circumstance
Nick Mallet might be the lucky one, Carel had finally gotten it right even though it had already cost him his job, Gaffie failed him and I think Honiball’s absence in that crucial game where we took arguably the best Aus team in the last 20 years to extra time was the difference between us getting our 2nd Bill. Using De Beer’s drop gaol tactic was price-less, again Soutie coach reacting to circumstance.
Jake White started with a bunch of young, eager players hoping to play open rugby but quickly learnt his limitations and adopted another approach of “defence being the winner”, another example of Soutie reacting to circumstance.
My opinion is that the Afrikaans fellows don’t react well to forced change of circumstance, hence their failure, lets if Heyneke becomes the exception.
8 Jun 2012, 16:11 pm
@greybeard(greybeard)-229: I always thought that that statement is not entirely true…. seeing that most coaches form the core of their teams from the predecessor’s squad….
I’ll pick a random number… 70%
Heyneke is using 70% PdV’s players and PdV used 70% of White’s players, who in turn used 70% of Straeuli’s team and so forth and so forth…
I am being simple I guess… no coach would ever start with zero caps in his squad…
8 Jun 2012, 16:11 pm
@greybeard(greybeard)-240: If it is, by my count there are 22 Souties on that list out of 53 captains. Care to compare that to the Soutie vs Boertjie breakdown of ALL players? I think hensopper’1s point is proved.
8 Jun 2012, 16:12 pm
@Agile T*t-Tyrant(Anairetes agilis)-233: Can’t argue with that.
8 Jun 2012, 16:13 pm
@theOracle(theOracle)-242: No in fact I’d go along with you on that – point remains though, it’s how you mange the players you have. And more important as in in PDivvy’s case, how do you IMPROVE them?
8 Jun 2012, 16:14 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-241:
Ja, and your opinion is very reliable and based on sound logic and I’m just some sarcastic moer.
Ag julle is nie bok vir sports nie, cheers manne, praat later
8 Jun 2012, 16:14 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-241: But then Mallett did not like the drop kicking idea. That was Joost and de Beer. What Mallett did decide however was to use the same tactic in the semi where it did not work, as it was predictable. BTW Joost and the De Beer is …
wait for it….
AFRIKAANS.
8 Jun 2012, 16:17 pm
@Stormers supporters: Cry me a river!(Horings)-247:
How many drops did Jannie attempt / succeeded against Aus in that semi?
They decided to play De Beer after his England heroics, but ran the ball at the Aussies.
8 Jun 2012, 16:20 pm
@willievz(willievz)-248: I remember him missing at least one.
8 Jun 2012, 16:23 pm
Greybeard,
Dunno??? Heineke and his mates travel off to check out new thinking and gridiron among other things. He is a student of sport and rugby beyond his Culture.
In a way, rugby is very much an English speaking sport, unlike say football. It’s roots are pure British Empire. I find this ironic.
The French, much like the Afrikaaners are almost outsiders in the game. Note how the lingua franca of referees is Even English. Humourous to listen to an Afrikaans ref and player straining there way through Ingels to each other. Look how often French teams get diss’ed by English speaking refs.
Next point. Add up all the literature and news on rugby coaching written in Afrikaans, and then all the rugby literature and news in English, and put them in 2 different piles.
I do not have the number in front of me, but I am confident I have a ball park figure in my head as to the difference between the 2 piles.
This, in effect is what the pro/post isolation era has thrown up.
No good is it anymore to have a cauliflower eared old ex player Oom in a green blazer at the front of the bus.
8 Jun 2012, 16:24 pm
@Stormers supporters: Cry me a river!(Horings)-249:
It was 1 from 5.
The 4 he missed were from poor positions and were not “set-up” properly.
8 Jun 2012, 16:24 pm
@Stormers supporters: Cry me a river!(Horings)-238: Incorrect, my test is not based on language but on history repeating itself, not because of language but a set misguided belief inherent in all the previous Afrikaner coaches since the country’s dynamics changed.
In baby language, the lack of preparation time, the lack of homogeneity, extra public scrutiny, provincialism, political pressure etc etc, these are the main reasons why the Afrikaner Afrigter fails at Bok level, its not that the Afrikaans okes are daft, its just that their inability to withstand this type pressure invariable leads to their demise.
Culture and dynamism, not langauge
8 Jun 2012, 16:25 pm
@hensopper1(hensopper1)-250: well said. Im out of here now
8 Jun 2012, 16:30 pm
@Stormers supporters: Cry me a river!(Horings)-247: Exactly my point!!!, English coaches react positively to a change in circumstance, Nick Mallet didn’t tell Joost and De Beer to *****-off and stick to his plan, he changed with the changing circumstance, that’s what separates English coaches from Afrikaans Afrigters.
Case Closed, I couldn’t have used a better example to illustrate my point, Thank You!!!!!!!!!!
8 Jun 2012, 16:30 pm
XhosaKid.
Check my previous point re language. I believe we disregard the power of
language too easily. Discussing this aspect is not racism, It is anIssue I believe to be central to the whole SA experience.
8 Jun 2012, 16:31 pm
XhosaKid,
With respect mate, since when does History repeat itself?
8 Jun 2012, 16:34 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-252: I read a lot of non rugby related opinions. For example if you are talking about leadership then how the heck did the Ruperts become as successful as they did. Surely Johan Rupert had to adapt to changing circumstances in his life?
At least my test is based on rugby.
8 Jun 2012, 16:34 pm
@hensopper1(hensopper1)-250: Couldn’t agree more. Someone wrote something about English being more outwardly looking as opposed to inward looking, which could be limiting and putting unnecessary pressure on himself.
8 Jun 2012, 16:35 pm
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/9316155/South-Africa-v-England-where-the-first-Test-will-be-won-and-lost.html
Tomorrow, my arse is not moving from the TV. The ABs and Aussies will provide the warm-up and I literally cannot wait for the Bok-Eng to start.
They have respect for Heyneke Meyer and the side that was picked.
The more I think of it, the more I feel Heyneke is very well prepared for the game tomorrow.
I even believe there will be some running rugny on diplay from the boks – especially once forward domination has taken place. Can’t wait for the scrums – the English have made a lot of the Besat’s strength.
Boks to take it by 8. If ze Germans then beat Portugal it will be the perfect Saturday (well, throw in a ******** from redhead with big breasts – then it’ll be perfect)
8 Jun 2012, 16:36 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-254: I don’t think World Cup games is a good example to support your thesis.
All coaches regardless of ethnicity or background become ultra-conservative come WC games as it is a must-win scenario. This is not the place to be stubborn, and they are not.
It was a team decision to run the ball against the Wallabies in that semi. Only when they couldn’t breach the defense of Horan et al, they resorted to setting up drops, but they were not set up properly and De Beer misfired but for one.
8 Jun 2012, 16:40 pm
@Stormers supporters: Cry me a river!(Horings)-257: But Rupert wasn’t/isn’t faced with what faces a Bok coach, a simply example, Rupert called Julius Malema an irritating mos in a tent, imagine if Heneyke were to say that.
Another good example if not a perfect example is Harry Viljoen, seriously successful business man ( Rupert) but an abject failure as a Bok Coach
8 Jun 2012, 16:41 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-254: No, no, no he only changed his thinking after the game in preparation for the semi where it did not work. It would have taken an idiot to see Joost and De Beer’s tactic did not work in the England game.
Your last attempt at a knock out punch is a bit desperate and is similar to a desperate boxer trying to throw the big punches before the inevidable. You want out, but I have enough in my bag to go all the way.
8 Jun 2012, 16:41 pm
@GermanBok(Marty)-259: “The best South African lock, Mouritz Botha, is playing for England. His speed to the breakdown and physical strength were key factors in the Six Nations”.
Farken Pommie press.
8 Jun 2012, 16:43 pm
@willievz(willievz)-260: My point is that Mallet could have told Joost and De Beer to *****-off with the drop goal idea against English but he didn’t, he took it in, he adjusted according to their idea. Another example of this dynamism inherent in these English blokes.
8 Jun 2012, 16:43 pm
@willievz(willievz)-263: HAHA – yes, I know. I reckon they’ll see who the BEST S.A. lock is when Botha come up against Eben tomorrow. That lightie won’t shy away from anything.
8 Jun 2012, 16:43 pm
GERMANBOK.
Watched the Skytv special earlier, I think overall the Bok-Eng game is the big one as you say.
Must go now, time to prepare for the rugby tomorrow.
8 Jun 2012, 16:46 pm
@Stormers supporters: Cry me a river!(Horings)-262: So what are you saying?, did Nick Mallet come up with the drop kick plan against England or not. Who came up with the drop kick plan for the England game?
8 Jun 2012, 16:47 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-261: To compare Harry to Rupert is a bit silly. You obviously do understand context.. A recurrent opinion of yours is that Afrikaners is not adaptable and within that CONTEXT I provided you with an example of Afrikaners that must have been adaptable.
You have not replied on my comment 234 where an explanation for your statement is made.
8 Jun 2012, 16:50 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-264: Oh, you are talking about the ENGLAND game…
Well, the idea before the game, and in the first half, was to run the ball against England too.
The 5 drop goals only came after half-time.
So Mallett still wanted the team to run the ball, even with Jannie at pivot?
8 Jun 2012, 16:50 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-267: Joost and De Beer practised it on the fields as you normally do before finals and in the game they started to do the tactic. Mallett saw it worked and did not stop them. What a great coach he is not to run out of his coaching booth and not stopping them immediately. Then he thought it will be greate doing the same against the Aussies, where it did not work.
8 Jun 2012, 16:51 pm
@willievz(willievz)-16: This ‘CapeBull’ chap seems to have an emotional breakdown every time a comment about the bulls is made. I am starting to suspect that he actually might be Wynand Olivier.
8 Jun 2012, 16:52 pm
@willievz(willievz)-263: Haha. Eben Etzebeth gaan alle rekords breek. Hy is bang vir niks en hy is 20.
8 Jun 2012, 16:54 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-267: Let us just say we agree to disagree and start talking about Etzebeth. I actually like the topic.
If you want to carry on with the argument it is fine, I will not back down.
8 Jun 2012, 16:56 pm
@Stormers supporters: Cry me a river!(Horings)-268: I have clearly responded to the adaptability question, clearly you have not read or understood. I’ll repeat.
“But Rupert wasn’t/isn’t faced with what faces a Bok coach, a simply example, Rupert called Julius Malema an irritating mos in a tent, imagine if Heneyke were to say that.”
“In baby language, the lack of preparation time, the lack of homogeneity, extra public scrutiny, provincialism, political pressure etc etc, these are the main reasons why the Afrikaner Afrigter fails at Bok level, its not that the Afrikaans okes are daft, its just that their inability to withstand this type pressure invariable leads to their demise. Culture and dynamism, not langauge”
Rupert and Harry are faced with different pressures when they are in the business world, that type of pressure and their ability to react to circumstance is there for all to see, they are very good at it, although at different degrees, there many, many, many Afrikaner successful businessman.
However, the pressure of being a Bok coach is a different animal, its like surviving the legendary “Chinese torture” as opposed to surviving” Mugabe Style”, as illustrated by Harry being good under the toher and being dismal under the other.
8 Jun 2012, 17:01 pm
@Stormers supporters: Cry me a river!(Horings)-273: I’ll catch up about what you 2 were arguing about a bit later but when it comes to Etzebeth: I reckon what will make this lightie so good is his attitude. He is obviously massive and very strong (if Nick Koster’s report on the Stormers coach needing to get ‘special heavy weights’ for Etzebeth is correct) but he doesn’t stand back for anything. Take Spies as an example – if he would have that attitude he would have undoubtedly and unanimously been the best no. 8 in the world
8 Jun 2012, 17:01 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-274: Don’t you think that the following is a possible reason, without going into the psyche of Afrikaans people. Is it not possible that past success may be a great factor in future success.
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-227: Because all the Afrikaans Afrigters we had were s h i t and did not have any real success before they became Springbok coach. The most successful coaches before Heyneke and Ludeke were Ian Mac, Christie and Jake. I can’t remember Mallett’s records before he became coach.
8 Jun 2012, 17:05 pm
@Stormers supporters: Cry me a river!(Horings)-270: Agree, him assimilating the idea for the England game is an example of what I’m talking about, him employing the same tactic against Australia was daft, he is human after all.
Nothing wrong with that, the glaring difference in my argument is that the Afrikaner coach wouldn’t have employed the tactic against England and would have simply told his players to stick to whatever game plan had brought them thus far. His logic would have been, we are in the quarters why change what had worked.
On the Eben topic,
I would rather he wasn’t playing for the next 3 weeks, this boy is till young and the type of punishment his body is taking is insane, I would hate to see another promising talent being cut short as is the case with Bekker
8 Jun 2012, 17:12 pm
@hensopper1(hensopper1)-201:
Your name says exactly what you are.
xhosa my snot nosed booi, before you give your unwanted take on Afrikaaners, rather look at the **** your ” real Africans” are dishing up world wide.
And no, Nelson does not make the cut as a politician.
He was a symbol for new SA and had respect from most people, but a very average politician…..dont believe the propoganda machine.
8 Jun 2012, 17:13 pm
@Stormers supporters: Cry me a river!(Horings)-276: Point 1: Yes, past success is very useful in assisting with future success, the Afrikaner can call on this, that’s a feather on their cap
Point 2: Jake White had no provincial/franchise experience,this didn’t limit him. Nick Mallet only coach Bolad, freaken Boland, this didn’t limit him. Harry had won Currie Cup with WP, this didn’t help though, Straueli was successful at the Sharks and I think overseas, that didn’t help either, see my drift.
8 Jun 2012, 17:17 pm
@Xkreni-WP(Xkreni-WP)-278: We actually agree on the politicians, I appreciate your honesty, its just that I don’t reserve my honesty for my political analysis only, I do the same to my rugby, critically analyze it.
8 Jun 2012, 17:42 pm
Phew, that was a mission to sift through some of this waffle, waffle.
But pray tell me Kid, was there ever an English-speaking Springbok coach PRIOR to 1992?
Somehow I don’t think so & certainly can’t think of one.
8 Jun 2012, 18:39 pm
By 7pm tomorrow the English rugby team will resemble one or more of the following:
-Hamburger mix
-Peanut butter
-Toothpaste
-Haggis
-Road kill
-Rollmops
Bokke by 10.
Durban casualty wards will be taking the injured players from 5.15pm
Pasop vir die bok.
8 Jun 2012, 18:45 pm
Jinne.
WTF!
8 Jun 2012, 19:19 pm
anyone got a website to watch these games tomorrow ..
8 Jun 2012, 19:26 pm
Poor Kokaineo is sniffing up the wrong tree with his tweets. Both Aus and SA will lose . The Boks only just but Aus will be thumped by 15.
8 Jun 2012, 21:04 pm
Braai time:
Beer can chicken peri peri
Lyonaise potatoes in herb butter (foiled on the coals)
Mexican refried beans with sour cream on the side
Tequila soaked watermelon slices
Rum&Cola floats.
8 Jun 2012, 21:55 pm
Good eats
8 Jun 2012, 21:58 pm
@GermanBok(Marty)-259:
Nice link, and well said. Braai and rugby and footie all day long!!
8 Jun 2012, 22:00 pm
@XhosaKid(XhosaKid)-279:
Agree with you. Jake got his experience under Mallet, u20′s and pure love for the technicals of the game
8 Jun 2012, 22:02 pm
Jeez the tendency’s have been flying his week.
Relax guys……a great day of rugby tomorrow.
9 Jun 2012, 00:11 am
I can’t wait for the game and as part South African (both Afrikaans and English) and part English I just want to see both sides really perform and compete…. Am very excited by look of new Bok second row pair (especially Etzebeth) and really think they will have an edge over England here (I don’t rate either Parling or Botha). Front row match up will be interesting and think that Marler might surprise a few if he has any energy left after the scrums! So many interesting contests in the game and such a great prospect for a series and just wish I could find a way to watch it live – any advice on how to watch the game in the USA?
9 Jun 2012, 03:59 am
@RugbyexileinUSA(RugbyexileinUSA)-291:
“as part South African (both Afrikaans and English) and part English I just want to see both sides really perform and compete…. Am very excited by look of new Bok second row pair (especially Etzebeth) and really think they will have an edge over England here (I don’t rate either Parling or Botha).”
Who are you rooting for?
England or South Africa?
The Rose’arse or the Boks?
9 Jun 2012, 05:10 am
@RugbyexileinUSA(RugbyexileinUSA)-291:
You don’t rate Mouritz Botha?
You haven’t watched English and NH rugby this year then…
9 Jun 2012, 06:12 am
@bryce_in_oz didn’t get to see any of England’s games this year- could only see very few matches from NH in the USA – how good is he? My comment was based on the fact that if Courtney Lawes was fit he would be ahead of both Botha and Parling for a place in the English second row yet when Juandre Kruger played for Northampton in England a couple of years ago he was very much the dominant partner in the second row playing alongside Courtney Lawes. So I haven’t seen Botha play but most of the reports I’ve read seem to describe him as “solid” rather than “dominant”
@nama1 always a torn loyalty whenever the Boks play England! I support both the Boks and England against everyone else but when they play each other I have divided loyalties and so sit uncomfortably on the fence.
Will be very interested to see how Australia respond against Wales after losing to Scotland and to how Ireland and the AB’s get on, it’s going to be a proper day’s rugby …. and I can’t get to watch it!! Any internet or other suggestions please!
9 Jun 2012, 06:26 am
In the USA all Rugby June Tests on Direct TV channel 490 West .
For some reason Direct TV only show the games on their guide a day or two before the games are scheduled. Why I have no idea.! It was the best kept “secret” for the whole of this week.
9 Jun 2012, 06:54 am
@johnrugby thanks for the infornation- hadn’t come across them before and probably too late for the first test but will have that in place for the rest of the series!
9 Jun 2012, 06:54 am
@RugbyexileinUSA(RugbyexileinUSA)-294:
Lawes is very good and has that ‘flash’ on top of his aggression… I agree on Parling…
Botha’s work-rate is second to none in the NH amongst locks… his tackling ferocious as is his ruck/maul game… the ground he covers too as a lock is quite astounding and he’s charged down more clearing kicks than any other in the HC this year…
Juandre is a classy player IMO… lacking in grunt at IMO a few cm’s…
Going to be a very interesting game this (and the Welsh/Aus)… neither of these two are guaranteed a win despite bookie odds…
@johnrugby(johnrugby)-295:
DirectTV also show all the S15 games?
9 Jun 2012, 06:57 am
@bryce_in_oz(bryce_in_oz)-297:
http://www.google.com.au/imgres?q=botha+kruger&hl=en&sa=X&biw=1366&bih=643&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=eNicpqti_KWyuM:&imgrefurl=http://www.espnscrum.com/anglowelshcup/rugby/image/112733.html&docid=EYNoEqY3qw51qM&imgurl=http://www.espnscrum.com/PICTURES/CMS/10100/10101.jpg&w=500&h=420&ei=OtfST4noCu6YiAft5u2YAw&zoom=1
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