England rejig backline
14 Jun 2012
Toby Flood has been preferred at flyhalf for the second Test against the Springboks while coach Stuart Lancaster has made several other changes to his starting backline.
Flood replaces Owen Farrell at No 10 after the Saracens player had an ordinary outing at Kings Park last Saturday. Flood is far more experienced than Farrell and has enjoyed a good halfback partnership with Ben Youngs at Leicester.
‘Owen has had a fantastic season and I am sure he will make a significant impact from the bench,’ said Lancaster. ‘However, Toby has waited patiently for his opportunity and the time is right to allow him the chance to demonstrate his experience and skills in what will be a very tough challenge.’
The injuries to fullback Mike Brown and centre Brad Barritt have forced further changes to the back division. Ben Foden moves to No 15 and David Strettle takes his place on the left wing. Manu Tuilagi shifts to No 12 while Jonathan Joseph comes into the midfield for his first Test start.
‘It’s a shame for Mike Brown who worked hard to get that Test start but Ben Foden naturally reverts to fullback and we return to the wing partnership of David Strettle and Chris Ashton that served us well in the 6 Nations,’ said the England coach.
Meanwhile, Lancaster has kept the starting pack intact. There are changes to the reserve bench, with prop Alex Corbisiero replacing Paul Doran-Jones and Alex Goode coming in to provide backline cover.
England – 15 Ben Foden, 14 Chris Ashton, 13 Jonathan Joseph, 12 Manu Tuilagi, 11 David Strettle, 10 Toby Flood, 9 Ben Youngs, 8 Ben Morgan, 7 Chris Robshaw (c), 6 Tom Johnson, 5 Geoff Parling, 4 Mouritz Botha, 3 Dan Cole, 2 Dylan Hartley, 1 Joe Marler.
Subs: 16 Lee Mears, 17 Alex Corbisiero, 18 Tom Palmer, 19 Phil Dowson, 20 Lee Dickson, 21 Owen Farrell, 22 Alex Goode.
114 Comments
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14 Jun 2012, 14:43 pm
Tuilagi is 21 he’s more than a badger he’s got lovely hands, decent step and he scores fries (He was a winger)
He’s still a baby he will get better and better he’s not the finished article
14 Jun 2012, 14:49 pm
@john123(john123)-51: I doubt he will be better. There appears to be this perception that just because someone is young they will become twice as good in a few years or so. That rarely ever happens. How many players have honestly gone on to be great players only later in their career? I can only think of front rowers to be honest. Tuilagi is just a battering ram, an average Samoan at best. He got the better of a substandard Jean, but there are far better opposites he will face and he will require more than what he has. He will essentially settle into what he is at present. Virtually all players do that.
14 Jun 2012, 14:51 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-3: Actually, it was Butch at 12 that buckled the Boks in that game. Not Morné. And besides, Jean is the one Manu will target again. It’s our biggest backline weakness. Once they break through they have a turnstile in Lambie as our last defence. It could be another tough day for JP, but thankfully he has always been up to the task of cover defence.
14 Jun 2012, 14:52 pm
Tuilagi is more than a battering ram this is the first time he’s played in the SH
Of course players improve ie decision making, skill set, strength/physique it all improves
14 Jun 2012, 14:54 pm
@NicG(NicG)-14: Frans is 100kg. Besides, weight is not = to strength or power. Frans is just a more powerful person than Manu irrespective of weight.
14 Jun 2012, 14:54 pm
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-50: Well, by his own heralding and the full length commercial he posted here (500 trumpets were used in the making of that specific commercial and all trumpet action was monitored by the American Humane Society – No trumpets were harmed in the making of that specific commercial, although Mad Eye tried bloody hard) he is a world class producer, and involved with sharketing in a big way at the pilchard tin. It made business sense to rope the old ******* e r in.
14 Jun 2012, 14:58 pm
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-33: I was one hundred percent correct. Do you want the times?
05:08 – Manu attacks the outside shoulder of Jean, he proceeds to hand-off Jean and get behind him. Jean attacks the feet of Manu from behind to bring him down. Frans immediately contests the ball, but two Englishmen well on hand to recycle quickly.
28:05 – Jean shoulder charges Manu’s face sending him to the ground. (Jean the ball carrier).
43:43 – Manu knocks Jean over with a powerful run but trips over the would-be defender in the process, still gets behind him.
71:15 – Manu runs, stops and thumps Jean backwards, Frans moves out and thumps Manu to ground.
There you have it, this was the extent of the encounter. I recommend you get your head out of your backside, but that’s how the WP folk like it. Enjoy your blissful ignorance.
14 Jun 2012, 15:00 pm
Manu Tuilagi is more powerful than Francois Steyn
Tuilagi can bench press as much as Andrew Sheridan who was a pro power lifter
14 Jun 2012, 15:02 pm
@john123(john123)-58: Well, Frans smashed Manu every chance he got. Frans smashed everything he got his hands onto and carried multiple opponents nearly half the length of the opposition half at times. I cant think of many players who can do that, forwards or backs! Manu only bested Jean because he is a pap myth.
14 Jun 2012, 15:03 pm
Did you not see Tuilagi’s monster tackle on Willem Alberts in the 1st half to stop a try? He’s an animal very rarely do you see 21 year olds as powerful as him hes only 6 ft as well
14 Jun 2012, 15:05 pm
@john123(john123)-60: Nobody monster tackled Alberts. He was merely brought down after some seriously hard graft. Alberts trampled everything before him. Literally running over several Englishman.
14 Jun 2012, 15:14 pm
I am flabergasted by the tone of comments on this site.
Backline players are always first judged first by their defensive ability or the lack thereof. Secondly the question is asked whether or not they will be able to cross the advantage line. Very little focus is placed on their distribution skills or speed off the mark, for instance.
Frans Steyn being a case in point. He seemingly is tackled after having made two or three yards over the advantage line. The poor pricks who sing his praises for doing this do not see that, had he rather passed, the blokes on his outside would have made 20 yards across the advantage line. Once again, statistics are misleading. Statistics will tell you that Pierre Spies made 200 tackle assists or hit 500 rucks in the game, but it does not tell you that his input had zero effect on the game. It does not show that he tackles with his hands first like a the smallest little bugger in the under 9 team. It does not show that he deliberately waits for someone else to tackle the ball carrier before he gets involved. It does not tell you that most of the rucks that he joins has the ball already secured on the opposition’s side. He only hits those rucks because he knows it will make his stats look good.
14 Jun 2012, 15:15 pm
@Alucard(Alucard)-53: jamie roberts ran through morne like freight train. morne must defend his channel, the blame can’t be shifted to butch…
sbw also ran through morne like a swift wind when the saders demolished the bulls 27 – 0, i guess you’re going to say it was wynand’s fault even then.
14 Jun 2012, 15:15 pm
@tigereaver(tigereaver)-42:
You’re right. Passing is part of distribution, but it does not mean the same thing.
Let me put it this way – all rugby players at international level can (or should be able to!!) pass a ball. But not all players are good distributors.
A good distributor is necessarily a carrier that makes good decisions, and decides if and when to get rid of the ball.
14 Jun 2012, 15:16 pm
He lifted him up at speed ok it wasn’t a monster tackle but still a 21 year old lifting a bloke of Alberts size showed incredible strength
He would have trampled over Frans Steyn at 21
14 Jun 2012, 15:17 pm
@Alucard(Alucard)-57:
What is the point you are trying to make Alucard? That de Villiers stopped him everytime!? It may not have been pretty but it was effective.
I remember reading an article with Deon Kayser back in the day and they were asking him how he planned to bring down his massive opponent (not sure who it was exactly) but he said, “I will put my body on the line, it may not be pretty but long as I get in amongst the wheels and he comes down that’s all that matters.
de Villiers is credited with missing one tackle and Tuilagi made and extra 2 metres on that occasion. I think you need to back the boks instead of constantly looking for fault.
Seriously fickle fans! It’s like you have nothing better to do than complain and be negative. Do you need a hug?
14 Jun 2012, 15:20 pm
@Couchcoach(GI POT)-62: The primary job of 12 is to get over the advantage line and set up the next phrase. I suppose that you were blinking conveniently each time Frans made massive ground with his powerful carries. Or maybe when he made those three slick offloads – something he always does well. Or his lengthy passes. Choose to be ignorant, but it only reflects your complete lack of understanding of the game. Perhaps you would like the Boks to play traditional Welsh shuffle ball? Flinging in side to side without gaining an inch? You need to go forward, you need your 12 to penetrate the gainline. You first go forward, suck in defenders and then, maybe, take it wide. Even then you only have about four phases before the defence strengthens. Whilst not going forward? The defence always is on top.
Your take on Spies is clueless as well. He very often is the first to arrive for a tackle. His breakdown work is no worse than most.
14 Jun 2012, 15:23 pm
De Villiers’ future is at 13, for both SA and the Stormers/WP.
14 Jun 2012, 15:25 pm
@tigereaver(tigereaver)-66: My point is that through smashing Jean England were able to pile in and behind our defence. That may not be of any concern to you, but to anyone that wants to not be beaten, it is something very grave. You cannot afford to have a defender that gets smashed backwards and allows attackers to literally invade his channel. It’s so bad that JP had to fly in off his wing to cover. So to Frans. It’s so much of a burden that defenders are being pulled out of position just to rectify Jean’s weak defending. Now do you get the point? Had we played a side with better offloading in contact and support running we WOULD have lost this test on the basis of that weakness alone. It’s not enough to grapple people’s feet in a desperate attempt to stop someone. Is that how low our standards are for South Africa rugby? Or is it how far people will go to defend a player? Either way, very, very sad.
14 Jun 2012, 15:26 pm
@willievz(willievz)-64:
Hence we cannot comment on whether or not Frans Steyn is a good or bad distributor because he never passes the *&#$%ing ball!!!!
14 Jun 2012, 15:26 pm
@willievz(willievz)-64:
Willie, finally we are in agreement! Passing is about the action whereas distribution is about the thought process and knowing who is best placed to receive the pass and make the most of it.
So the point I was making is that Tuilagi is a terrible distributor. Do you disagree? He started out as a wing and rarely does a wing make a good 12. There are numerous cases of wings being moved to 13 very successfully but 12 is a different ball game all together. If anyone points to de Villiers as an example I would point to the fact that he was a 12 who was shifted to the wing to get him into the team.
There are going to be occasions where your 10 is tied up and the 12 is forced to step in. This can only be good for the boks. Flood tied up so Tuilagi steps in at 10, there are 2 options – crash ball or intercept try. The Poms best option was to look for a 12 with a bit of creativity to create space for Tuilagi at 13.
That’s the way I see it. Happy to hear what you think.
14 Jun 2012, 15:27 pm
@willievz(willievz)-68: That’s a very bleak future. Though, there is no chance of Jean displacing de Jongh who is quite honestly twice the outside centre Jean is. If only Fourie was still available. The sooner Jean disappears from the scene the better for South African rugby.
14 Jun 2012, 15:27 pm
@Alucard(Alucard)-67:
Are you Ian Mac? So you f%^&$ed up backline play in SA!!!!!! You old so-and-so
14 Jun 2012, 15:27 pm
@willievz(willievz)-68:
Agree. He should have been moved a long time ago. Was his best game in a bok jersey for a long time.
14 Jun 2012, 15:29 pm
@tigereaver(tigereaver)-71: You are onto something. Jean is really a wing, and his distribution has always been awful. One of the worst tragedies is that Jean was moved to 12. It dragged both the Boks and WP down. Not many wings have made good 13s though. The vast majority have failed. Wings are wings, centres are centres, all these failures prove that the two are not interchangeable.
14 Jun 2012, 15:29 pm
@willievz(willievz)-68:
Ons sê mos al vir maande WP moet vir Juan de Jongh op 12 en vir Jean de Villiers op 13 gebruik.
14 Jun 2012, 15:29 pm
@tigereaver(tigereaver)-71:
Tuilagi is the class of 12 that Alucard – the *** Dracula – drools over. Bonehead, braindead mastodons who would not be able to utilize a overlap or a gap in a backline if their lives depended on it.
14 Jun 2012, 15:31 pm
@john123(john123)-60: why do Brits always bring out gym stats like they actually mean something
14 Jun 2012, 15:31 pm
@willievz(willievz)-68:
I’m beginning to think Heyneke Meyer needs to contract Barrie Geel as a specialist “backline mental coach”.
14 Jun 2012, 15:32 pm
@fantasticbarnsmell(fantasticbarnsmell)-78:
You mean like Blue Bull fans when they discuss Pierre Spies?
14 Jun 2012, 15:33 pm
@Alucard(Alucard)-69: 4 examples in 80 minutes, and the man brought down in all 4. Face it, Jean was damn good at 13. Even the English commentators admitted it. Take off your Blue glasses and face reality.
14 Jun 2012, 15:34 pm
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-80: haha, exactly… and we all know how that one ends..
14 Jun 2012, 15:34 pm
@Alucard(Alucard)-69:
I’m sorry chap but you are off the mark. It was de Villiers first outing in the 13 jersey in about 10 years. He will only get better, learning the angles to defend and how to position himself.
Excatly how many threatening moves came from Tuilagi’s supposed bust through de Villiers? If you took note of the fact that on at least 2 of the occasions you mentioned earlier, the bok backline had come up very quickly and even with Tuilagi’s 3 extra metres they still hadn’t crossed the gain line.
A huge part of defence is how you deal with someone getting through/past the defensive line. Of course you need to be able to trust the players either side of you but Tuilagi is one dimensional and poses no threat other than attempting to run over people.
14 Jun 2012, 15:35 pm
@fantasticbarnsmell(fantasticbarnsmell)-78: lol Pierre Spies
Just cant believe the amount of people writing off Tuilagi as this one dimensional player
He really isnt hes got more skills than bashing into someone
Like I said hes 21 he will improve his game in terms of decision making, kicking etc he wil become a more all round player
14 Jun 2012, 15:36 pm
@Couchcoach(GI POT)-70:
Well, then you disagree with Heyneke Meyer, who states that his 13 is the decision maker and distributor in his backline, who gets the quick ball from the second phase after no.12 has carried it up in first phase.
Rather than get all uptight about it, just say that you and Heyneke have different views of how the game should be played.
14 Jun 2012, 15:38 pm
A lot of Xperts here on backline play
X – is an unknown quantity
pert – a lot of hot gas under pressure
Xperts indeed
14 Jun 2012, 15:38 pm
@john123(john123)-58: Pierre Spies can bench press half of the population of Pretoria dude (with their crocs on!), yet he still can’t tackle for sh y te and is easier to bring down than some African, Middle Eastern, or East European dictator. 95% of a Man’s strength is in his head. Only 5% is gym stats.
14 Jun 2012, 15:38 pm
Jamie Roberts is a one a dimensional player all he does is run in a straight line and because hes 6ft 5 he can offload the ball in the tackle
BTW Toby Flood isnt a small man hes a decent tackler I havent seen him miss many tackles
SA will target Jonathan Joseph at 13
14 Jun 2012, 15:40 pm
@john123(john123)-84: it’s common knowledge that people who do this comparison with Pierre Spies are idiots, if you’re happy to be in that company then by all means do.
14 Jun 2012, 15:40 pm
@Alucard(Alucard)-67: “The primary job of 12 is to get over the advantage line and set up the next phrase.”
Yes, to an extent. Certainly if an offense stands flat.
It depends on how the team want to play the first phase, the alignment of the offense and how the defense reacts to the recycle from the set piece.
For example, sometimes a skip pass from the 10 to the 13 is delivered, with the 12 shooting up and acting as a dummy runner. Then the 12 becomes a support player at a ruck/maul situation. The All Blacks do this very often – look how often Conrad Smith receives a skip from Carter and bring Nonu in play in this fashion.
The Boks played far too deep for a 12 to effectively penetrate the defensive line. This is where the Morne/JDV combo failed IMO. But with Steyn there, he has the distribution skills to operate (ie pass or kick) from a slightly deeper position as well as the strength to dominate his opposite number should he decide to get physical.
But this is the crux – dominating your opposite number in the tackle does not mean you will dominate the contact point.
If you attack from too deep, the defensive support players will stifle your momentum. Remember that if you attack from slightly deeper, your own support runners will have to run slightly more backwards in support.
Actually, W.Olivier is a prime example in this regard. He is good enough at S15 level to attack the gain line and cross the advantage line from slightly deep, but fails to do this at international level because defenses are just too good for him. It is not his fault per se, just that his alignment is too deep for support to adequately assist him.
F.Steyn, while more physical in contact, will suffer this problem too if the backline alignment is too deep. In fact, did we or did we not dominate the collisions in the first half on Saturday?
14 Jun 2012, 15:40 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-85: Are you Mr Meyer’s gatekeeper? I don’t think I have been around here long enough to know what your affiliation to the man is? Older brother?
You seem terribly protective mama bear.
14 Jun 2012, 15:43 pm
@willievz(willievz)-90:
But Heyneke’s game involves a flat backline from first phase and a deeper backline from quick second phase ball. Hence, Frans takes the ball flat and gets over the advantage line with his strength.
14 Jun 2012, 15:44 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-85:
I disagree with Heyneke on many things. It is, however, nothing that is aimed at him alone. He is just following a global trend.
I am bemoaning the lack of creativity in rugby in general – especially backline play in SA.
One thing that I do give Heyneke credit for is the fact that he tweaked the game plan on Saturday. The Boks played off M Steyn after halftime and Hougaard just became a link instead of being the one who decides what to do with the ball. Morne suddenly looked like a world-class flyhalf. So I guess there is hope…
14 Jun 2012, 15:44 pm
@Alucard(Alucard)-75:
Really?? No wings have been converted to 13 and done well…..
Umaga, Adam Ashley-Cooper.
I’m sure there are a lot more.
14 Jun 2012, 15:44 pm
@tigereaver(tigereaver)-71: Yes, Tuilagi should not trouble a defensive line in close channels (which has more support).
Too predictable and not enough space.
@Alucard(Alucard)-72: De Jongh has the feet and speed needed at 12 to ensure a smooth second phase for his team.
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-79: LOL! For a calming influence
Of die ander Dagbreker 
14 Jun 2012, 15:51 pm
@fantasticbarnsmell(fantasticbarnsmell)-89:
If calling Spies useless makes me an idiot, then an idiot I am – gladly
14 Jun 2012, 15:51 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-92: Yep, but we were still too deep in the first half.
Second half our alignment was flatter.
14 Jun 2012, 15:52 pm
So much anger amongst bloggers.
Relax, people. Bok rugby is at the dawn of its greatest era.
14 Jun 2012, 15:53 pm
@Couchcoach(GI POT)-96: no no no, i was saying people who used the logic “Pierre Spies good at gym = good at rugby”, were idiots… so you are clearly not in this category.
14 Jun 2012, 15:54 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-98: We are not angry, we are just passionate.
Passionate Bok supporters.
Similar to you being a passionate Bulls supporter.
You should know the feeling?
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