Scrutinising Spies
25 Jun 2012
RYAN VREDE asks whether, 50 Tests into his career, Pierre Spies is the player he should be?
Pierre Spies’ half century of Test caps came and went without him being particularly impressive in Port Elizabeth. This has been his predominant state. Neither outstanding nor woeful. I’ve written before that I believe he is trapped in a maze of mediocrity in a Springbok shirt, and in three Tests against England he did little to challenge this view.
No incompetent player plays 50 Tests (although Ricky Januarie came close with 47), so it is not entirely a question of his aptitude, rather what he has delivered measured against expectation. Whose expectation? The answer here is three-fold. It is partly self-created through his form early in his career and at stages thereafter. Secondly all three Springbok coaches he has played under have unfailingly selected him and justified their faith consistently. Then there is the expectation created by his physical constitution and athletic gifts, which trumps any of his counterparts in world rugby.
There are factors that cannot be discounted when trying to answer this question. He spent most of his formative years as a winger and was only converted to an eighthman in 2005. He has effectively been forced to learn in the toughest environments in the game – Super Rugby and the Tri-Nations. That he has reached the milestone he has speaks volumes about his talent and adaptability.
I’ve interviewed Spies more times than I can remember but the one that endures in my memory came in 2009. I asked him who the best No 8 in the world was. He said when he plays to his potential, he is. ‘I believe I have something special because I’m unlike most No 8s in terms of my pace, and my experience as a backline player gives me a better understanding of how to link with them and about attacking lines in the backline,’ he offered.
There was nothing arrogant about the tone of that statement, simply a level of self-belief that was impressive and inspiring. Spies also spoke honestly about his shortcomings, most notably his inability to consistently impose himself when the game is tight.
Herein, in my view, lies the reason Spies has been a beautiful letdown. He lacks a degree of mongrel that would amplify his threat and elevate him to the level of man he should measure himself against – Kieran Read. Read stands alone as the pre-eminent No 8 in the game. Nobody is even close. With Richie McCaw’s influence waning, Read has become the fulcrum of the All Blacks’ pack – the man who sets the standards of brutality, physicality and industry. My frustration with Spies is that he should be this for the Springboks but isn’t.
Keen to establish his view on this issue, I asked Spies on Saturday evening whether he was happy with the player he is after 50 Tests. ‘The older you get the more you realise you need to change your game,’ he began. ‘If I look at the player I am now I’m definitely not as brutal as I was when I was younger, but I am a lot cleverer and tougher and wiser. Your game definitely changes and you need to adapt.
‘When you are a youngster, people are not aware of you. After 50 Tests they are and that makes your challenge bigger. The game has changed and defences have become much better. The guys are aware of your strengths, they call you by name. Teams tend to kick a little less on me now when I drop back and I haven’t had the space and time I had early in my career.’
This is in line with what Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer told me in an informal chat a couple of weeks ago. The Bulls and Springboks have relied on Spies’ dynamism when they forced the opposition to punt on Spies through pressure defence. In the absence of the space and time that offers him, Spies’ potency has been significantly diluted.
So what now for the 27-year-old? Is he a lost cause destined never to reach his potential at Test level? I believe the last hope of avoiding that eventuality is Meyer’s tactical intelligence and inspirational influence on Spies. There is no doubt he has played his best rugby under his long time mentor and Meyer alone can rouse his student to a level of performance that meets expectations. That expectation is high for a reason. We’ve seen glimpses of the player Spies can be and it excites.
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392 Comments
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26 Jun 2012, 12:07 pm
@Gumboots(Gumboots)-328:
well,
he’s not indian.
26 Jun 2012, 12:07 pm
@Dawn(Dawn)-350:
You are so polite! Something we all like about you…
26 Jun 2012, 12:09 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-342:
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-343:
double
26 Jun 2012, 12:09 pm
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-348: I value his opinion. In fact I rely on his opinions.
His opinion: Sharks to bum badger the Lions by 30.
The Facts: Me grabbing a welcome 10k, compliments of the Lions ignoring above blogger’s opinion.
26 Jun 2012, 12:11 pm
@toulon says(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-351:
Really! Dark hair, eyes, skin… hmmm you could be wrong…
26 Jun 2012, 12:14 pm
Pierma Spingh
26 Jun 2012, 12:18 pm
@Gumboots(Gumboots)-355: @Gumboots(Gumboots)-355: you got a problem with indian people?
26 Jun 2012, 12:19 pm
@Gumboots(Gumboots)-355:
ja, and sometimes he plays like a indian
26 Jun 2012, 12:21 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged by Mad Eye Productions.(The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food)-354:
Where you get all this zar!
26 Jun 2012, 12:29 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-17: Imagine what they must have been shouting when Alberts was lined up to take the ball.
26 Jun 2012, 12:32 pm
@Dawn(Dawn)-359: I bet against any Super rugby result HG calls. He says Bulls, I put 2k on the Stormers. He says Sharks, I put 2k on the Lions
His opinion counts…….
26 Jun 2012, 12:32 pm
@Yetirat(Yetirat)-360: Get Spies?
26 Jun 2012, 12:33 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged by Mad Eye Productions.(The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food)-361:
26 Jun 2012, 12:45 pm
@Spiesisworthless1(Spiesisworthless1)-46: Really not worth commiting on Spies … Arrogant , and not worth mentioning with other world class no 8 which SA has produced
26 Jun 2012, 12:49 pm
@stew(stew)-364: Who would you have starting for the Boks at 8?
26 Jun 2012, 12:50 pm
@Skeppie(Skeppie)-365: Alberts
26 Jun 2012, 12:52 pm
Maybe Pierre is a victim of the expectations that were created about him
I said a few years ago I would not mind to play him at 14; obviously he will need to change his conditioning; his problem there is prolly to do with his inability to kick etc
Duane moet ophou seerkry maar met Kanko boer ons agteruit
26 Jun 2012, 12:56 pm
@Sheriff(Sheriff)-367: I think the thing that irritates people is how poor he is physically on the field when he has all the physical traits in terms of his build/strength/speed. If Richie Maccaw, Kieran Reid, Higganbotham etc can be so physical then Spies should top all of them as he has been blessed with more physical attributes…..It’s just his lack of mongrel
26 Jun 2012, 13:04 pm
@Sheriff(Sheriff)-367: nobody “CREATED the expectations” but HIM!
the last sentence is quite a laugh!
This entry was posted on Friday, May 15th, 2009
by Ryan Vrede
‘Who is the best No 8 in world rugby?’ I ask. I fully expect him to rattle off some boring bullshit like: ‘That’s tough. Ryan Kankowski is an unbelievable player, and that bloke from Wales, whatshisname? Powell? Ja, Andy Powell, that boy can play a bit. And the Irishman, Jamie Heaslip, he’s coming through nicely. Oh ja, and Rodney So’oialo …’
Instead, I’m met with a thoughtful gaze before the most unexpected response. ‘That player is still in the making. It’s me.’
‘Wait a minute, you’re breaking protocol here,’ I say. ‘You’re supposed to sing the praises of the first half-decent players who spring to mind. So, I’ll ask again for fear of misquoting you: who is the best No 8 in world rugby?’
‘Look, I’m not going to make excuses for having confidence in my ability,’ Spies fires back. ‘If you look at the guys out there, not much separates them. I’d like to think I have that extra bit that sets me apart. I know it’ll be perceived as arrogance, like: “Listen to this guy talking himself up. He needs to learn his place.” That’s the way we are as humans isn’t it? We’re encouraged to aspire to be the greatest, then shot down when we do. But it’s not arrogance. I know my limitations and strengths and I’d like to believe that I can be the best in the world.’
I’m incredulous by now, stunned at what I’m hearing, but completely overjoyed to be listening to a player spitting unbridled truths.
‘I know I have a long way to go,’ he says. ‘But I want to get to the point where coaches, players and the public think about the best No 8s in the game and my name is at the forefront of their minds.’
26 Jun 2012, 13:14 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-369:
I think we need to go back to the days of a certain Mr Jake White and how we coached players: structure, structure
Then PdV comes but Matfied and Du Preez force the Bulls ‘ style onto the Bok game plan
And with Heyneke we will see a continuation of structures
If PdV’s approach of total rugby was implemented and embraced, more space would have been created and Pierre would have excelled in that sort of environment
SA’s approach of trying the breach the advantage line with forwards is archaic and flawed to the core; that role should be for the 12 and then offload to loose trio
One more thing: to breach like Wynand Olivier is not the way; you need to play into space and you’ll find that with opportunities will abound when support runners are both left and right
26 Jun 2012, 13:25 pm
@Sheriff(Sheriff)-370: just watch sonny bill williams!!!!
26 Jun 2012, 13:28 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-371:
People who were born in SA but support New Zealand are not true South Africans.
My desire is for them to leave, this afternoon still if possible or at their earliest convenience
26 Jun 2012, 14:09 pm
Let’s proceed from the simple fact that Spies is mediocre. After 50 Tests, the evidence is plain for everyone to see, and this really ought not to be a controversial point any more. I literally don’t know anybody who still thinks that Spies is the best No 8 in SA (despite Tacitus’ laughably desperate attempt to convince us that Spies is threatening because the useless Poms apparently called his name a few times). The fact that he continues to be picked is due to a combination of conventional-wisdom laziness and shameless provincial favouritism – nothing more. What is far more interesting is the way Ryan Vrede opportunistically tries to gain extra credibility by means of his gratuitous and irrelevant side-swipe at Ricky Januarie – a player who, despite his (real or perceived) faults, single-handedly delivered something tangible and lasting to Bok rugby, namely a historic win in Dunedin. With this dishonest posing, Vrede reminds me of political analysts who routinely take a swipe at the DA so as to up-cred themselves before criticising the ANC.
26 Jun 2012, 14:11 pm
@pierre(pierre)-373: Plain for everyone to see…
But three Bok coaches have continued to select him?
You shouldn’t play 50 tests if you are ordinary.
26 Jun 2012, 14:22 pm
@willievz(willievz)-374: With respect, your argument is ridiculous. Are you saying that those three Bok coaches haven’t all made some ridiculous selection errors? It sounds like you’re saying that the fact that Spies is there proves that he deserves to be there.
26 Jun 2012, 14:24 pm
@pierre(pierre)-375:
That’s not my argument. I am just the messenger – don’t shoot.
26 Jun 2012, 14:30 pm
@pierre(pierre)-373: The one highlight and all of Ricky’s bullsh it is justified?
I recall Spies also single handedly moerring the English on Loftus a number of years back….. does that that justify him. No
Irrespective whether Spies belongs there or not I have to agree if three coaches believes in him there is more than meets the eye. Cannot be put down to provinsialism as all three of them cannot be, neither were they ‘true to the blue’
26 Jun 2012, 14:36 pm
Ryan
I’ve just seen the rant at Ricky January. Completely uncalled for.
Considering his background and the obstacles he faced, he has turned out to be a remarkable sportsman who gave his everything for SA.
I thought he was the best nr9 on the planet in 2005.
26 Jun 2012, 15:41 pm
@willievz(willievz)-378: Looks like we can agree on something. Look, Ricky’s legendary “uselesness” is just another example of conventional-wisdom laziness. The truth is that Ricky had spectacular highlights and also patches of underperformance in a long and varied career. Spies, on the other hand, has been uniformly mediocre – similarly to Ryan’s feeble attempts to be a journalist.
26 Jun 2012, 18:12 pm
@willievz(willievz)-378: Ricky was useless- there is no debate
26 Jun 2012, 20:39 pm
@bangkok-bok(bangkok-bok)-380: Certainly not in 2005.
Look, he probably played 20 test matches too many for SA, but so have plenty of Boks, including the likes of Spies, Monty, John Smit, etc.
Ricky was very good if not outstanding for 20 of that 47 tests at least.
26 Jun 2012, 20:56 pm
Ricky was a far better scrum half than FdP for a number of tests where the mongrel at the base of the scrum was needed.. and he was a far better scrum half to take into battle against New Zealand than FdP.. where Ricky’s record against NZ compared to FdP’s record against NZ speaks for itself.
White knew this that is why he often selected Januarie ahead of Du Preez when a physical mongrel performance was required rather than a tactical kicking one.
26 Jun 2012, 21:01 pm
@willievz(willievz)-381:
SARU would have lost their KFC sponsorship if they’ve dropped Ricky in the last two sesons
26 Jun 2012, 21:02 pm
@louis schropnel(louis shrapnel)-382:
Ricky was a good scrumhalf and he had the mongrel especially in tight games where he harassed his opposite number, that’s how we won the test at the House of Pain
But he would never be in the class on Fourie, Joost and Divan
26 Jun 2012, 21:22 pm
The Ricky discourse is interesting.
He had some very, very good games. People talk about his ability around the fringes, a very good box kick, and totally fearless.
He is also one of the most underrated “loose forwards” in history. If you ever watched him tracking the backline it was lovely to watch, and he was a devastating tackler in that environment, BOOM, big hitter, especially for his size.
But he could NOT pass both sides, and when he got really fat it was embarrassing.
26 Jun 2012, 21:28 pm
@SodaJoe(SodaJoe)-385:
At his best he would have eaten Hougaard up, he could pressurize and harass opposition 9′s like no-one else
He would never have given Hougie the ten minutes he needs for a box kick
26 Jun 2012, 21:56 pm
@victoriabok(victoriabok)-386: Frankie Hollywood really can’t kick, but we do rely so much on this bloody predictabl kicking game over all.
We need to do something different, soon.
I like Frankie – he’s terrific. But he is not playing his natural game.
26 Jun 2012, 22:06 pm
@SodaJoe(SodaJoe)-387:
Any scrummy must be able to kick to relieve pressure, they all can do it why can’t he?
26 Jun 2012, 22:11 pm
@victoriabok(victoriabok)-388:
i wou;d like to think he is spending some time working on his kicking with FDP…
26 Jun 2012, 22:14 pm
ricky is a bok who never gave anything less than 100%
ryan is a f u k for denigrating this little big man.
26 Jun 2012, 22:16 pm
@the artist formerly known as gunther(gunther)-389:
He should already be able to do it if he’s an international level scrumhalf, I think the prophalf Weepu can even kick
27 Jun 2012, 02:23 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-240:
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