Scrutinising Spies
25 Jun 2012
RYAN VREDE asks whether, 50 Tests into his career, Pierre Spies is the player he should be?
Pierre Spies’ half century of Test caps came and went without him being particularly impressive in Port Elizabeth. This has been his predominant state. Neither outstanding nor woeful. I’ve written before that I believe he is trapped in a maze of mediocrity in a Springbok shirt, and in three Tests against England he did little to challenge this view.
No incompetent player plays 50 Tests (although Ricky Januarie came close with 47), so it is not entirely a question of his aptitude, rather what he has delivered measured against expectation. Whose expectation? The answer here is three-fold. It is partly self-created through his form early in his career and at stages thereafter. Secondly all three Springbok coaches he has played under have unfailingly selected him and justified their faith consistently. Then there is the expectation created by his physical constitution and athletic gifts, which trumps any of his counterparts in world rugby.
There are factors that cannot be discounted when trying to answer this question. He spent most of his formative years as a winger and was only converted to an eighthman in 2005. He has effectively been forced to learn in the toughest environments in the game – Super Rugby and the Tri-Nations. That he has reached the milestone he has speaks volumes about his talent and adaptability.
I’ve interviewed Spies more times than I can remember but the one that endures in my memory came in 2009. I asked him who the best No 8 in the world was. He said when he plays to his potential, he is. ‘I believe I have something special because I’m unlike most No 8s in terms of my pace, and my experience as a backline player gives me a better understanding of how to link with them and about attacking lines in the backline,’ he offered.
There was nothing arrogant about the tone of that statement, simply a level of self-belief that was impressive and inspiring. Spies also spoke honestly about his shortcomings, most notably his inability to consistently impose himself when the game is tight.
Herein, in my view, lies the reason Spies has been a beautiful letdown. He lacks a degree of mongrel that would amplify his threat and elevate him to the level of man he should measure himself against – Kieran Read. Read stands alone as the pre-eminent No 8 in the game. Nobody is even close. With Richie McCaw’s influence waning, Read has become the fulcrum of the All Blacks’ pack – the man who sets the standards of brutality, physicality and industry. My frustration with Spies is that he should be this for the Springboks but isn’t.
Keen to establish his view on this issue, I asked Spies on Saturday evening whether he was happy with the player he is after 50 Tests. ‘The older you get the more you realise you need to change your game,’ he began. ‘If I look at the player I am now I’m definitely not as brutal as I was when I was younger, but I am a lot cleverer and tougher and wiser. Your game definitely changes and you need to adapt.
‘When you are a youngster, people are not aware of you. After 50 Tests they are and that makes your challenge bigger. The game has changed and defences have become much better. The guys are aware of your strengths, they call you by name. Teams tend to kick a little less on me now when I drop back and I haven’t had the space and time I had early in my career.’
This is in line with what Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer told me in an informal chat a couple of weeks ago. The Bulls and Springboks have relied on Spies’ dynamism when they forced the opposition to punt on Spies through pressure defence. In the absence of the space and time that offers him, Spies’ potency has been significantly diluted.
So what now for the 27-year-old? Is he a lost cause destined never to reach his potential at Test level? I believe the last hope of avoiding that eventuality is Meyer’s tactical intelligence and inspirational influence on Spies. There is no doubt he has played his best rugby under his long time mentor and Meyer alone can rouse his student to a level of performance that meets expectations. That expectation is high for a reason. We’ve seen glimpses of the player Spies can be and it excites.
Follow Ryan on Twitter
Follow SA Rugby magazine on Twitter
392 Comments
25 Jun 2012, 11:21 am
Woeful Dragon. So overrated
25 Jun 2012, 11:25 am
Britney Spies . . . .. .overrated and his gunpowder is damp .. . . cant be fixed with pills . . . ..
25 Jun 2012, 11:29 am
Spies is a bit of a mystery.
Trapped between trying to play a pattern and playing with natural instinct.
25 Jun 2012, 11:38 am
This heading sounds like one of the discussion items for the ANC’s policy debates at Mangaung 2012.
25 Jun 2012, 11:44 am
To start with he needs to end this running sideways ‘lote tuquiri’ style thing
25 Jun 2012, 11:47 am
but i like that he’s realized the dashing 50m breaks aren’t gonna come anymore now that he’s an identified entity. glad to hear he’s embraced the idea of becoming a smarter tighter player because if he truly works on that, he could still (with his natural athleticism and training ethic) play the game for close to another 10 years like brad thorn and reach his full potential
25 Jun 2012, 11:48 am
The dig at Januarie is really unnecessary and based on nothing but the writer’s little knowledge of the game of rugby.
The performances from Spies has been woeful at times, like this weekend he was MIA.
very poor form by Keo’s lackey.
25 Jun 2012, 11:49 am
i have faith that this guys best years are ahead….he just needs to use his experience to become smarter. don’t forget, kieren read has been around for ages but is only now realizing his full potential in the last 12 months or so
25 Jun 2012, 11:51 am
@flanka(flanka)-8:
Pierre Spies, unfortunately, is about as predictable as they come. Opposition teams know exactly what to expect and how to close him down.
The same could be said about the current Bok gameplan, but hey…
25 Jun 2012, 11:51 am
spies is a natural wing playing number 8. He could of been great as a wing but he aint no forward.
25 Jun 2012, 11:51 am
I think Spies overates his understanding of the backline plays, considering he’s never played wing at this level. Besides, running in the centre is vastly different to wing.
As for his linking, I’ve yet to see it.
25 Jun 2012, 11:53 am
John1976
I agree, Ricky was no great bunt he had moments of brilliance which will forever be etched in springbok folklore. he contributed to one of the greatest mental breakthroughs for south africans in new zealand, post-isolation
25 Jun 2012, 11:54 am
I was at the game and made a point of trying to follow Spies and monitor his work-rate. It was easy – he really does nothing much. The number of times he walked around or jogged to follow up or cover was unbelievable. I plead with the coach and especially Rassie who both have ‘rugby’ brains to please relook at the video feeds and critically analyze what he actually did and especially his workrate. It’s almost as if he is scared of contact or tries to avoid it. He’s skills/head for the game at the base of the scrum are severly lacking – and that’s probably where our biggest problem is – the 8/9/10 axis! And then you have to consider the amount of extra work the other loosies need to get through. Please please please coaching staff look at the video and try and honestly justify his worth in the team because I sadly don’t get it. Think of Read, Zinzan Brook, Gary T – those are/were thinking eigthman with a head for the game who grinded it out when needed. That is something we are woefully lacking.
25 Jun 2012, 11:56 am
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-4:
hehehe
or the tilte of a painting reinterpreting the leninist soviet propaganda art style reinterpretation by brett murray of jacob zuma in his art work title ‘the spear’.
said painitng could/would of course feature pierre spies in bok outfit with his ‘spies’ dangling out for all the world to see.
the size, or lack thereof, carrying a subtle or otherwise psychological and subliminal message wrt his perceived lack of ‘spierness’…
25 Jun 2012, 11:56 am
or should that be ‘spearness’…
hehe
25 Jun 2012, 11:58 am
where it matters most….
25 Jun 2012, 11:59 am
In the second test I was amazed when the ref’s microphone picked up some of the player’s shouts around a ruck where the Boks had possession.
The ball was still trapped under the ruck, with Hougaard digging for it, and the English players were shouting to each other like crazy: “Get Spies! Get Spies!”
And then as if to make sure that all of the defenders had heard the call, it rang out frantically again: “Get Spies! Get Spies!”
I mean, we could hear it at home, every Bok player could hear it, Hougaard could hear it and Spies himself could hear it.
It was absolutely weird. This focus on one player only. No one even knew whether Spies was going to get the ball or not, but already they were shouting to each other to cover him.
So when Hougaard then popped the ball to Spies, he already knew about three guys were lined up to tackle him. And he still bashed it up successfully, and recycled the ball for us.
We may not rate him, but the English clearly do.
25 Jun 2012, 12:00 pm
The last paragraph is utter nonsense; there is nothing a coach can do if a player simply does not have the right attitude going into contact. He has had his chances, he is simply not the player everybody hope he would become.
Meyer should cut his losses and move on. Hopefully Vermeulen, Burger and Alberts will be available for the 4n rugby championship.
25 Jun 2012, 12:01 pm
Pierre Spies should’ve got the shepherd’s hook after 50 seconds of Sprinbok rugby, not 50 tests.
After Spies had to withdraw himself from RWC2007 with a steroid-induced health-problem, he somehow got even worse than he was prior to that.
I would take Ricky Januarie ANY DAY over Pierre Spies, regardless of position. Ryan Vrede, you continue to show your ignorance in new and suprising ways. Please stop pretending to:
- know anything about rugby
- be a journalist
You’re failing miserably at both.
25 Jun 2012, 12:01 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-17:
And by “we” I mean the anti-Spies critics in SA. I obviously DO rate him, and don’t include myself in that venomous group of sour “supporters.”
25 Jun 2012, 12:02 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-17:
The worst part of what you are saying is the fact that Hougaard actually STILL passed the ball to Spies….
25 Jun 2012, 12:03 pm
@pokkel(pokkel)-21:
Well, that’s Hougaard’s fault, not Spies’s.
25 Jun 2012, 12:06 pm
@John1976(John1976)-7: Januarie was a pretty useful player under jakes era at times as good as du preez! wasnt bad in 2008 either as i recall. just got too fat in his later years and couldnt keep pace at test level anymore.
25 Jun 2012, 12:06 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-22:
I like Hougaard but he doesn’t have the decisions making skills yet as a test player. He should be an impact player.
I know players should not be played out of position but I often wonder if Hougaard wouldn’t make a great 13.
25 Jun 2012, 12:06 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-17: And so Hougaard passed the ball to him then? That alone is a cast iron case for selecting Pienaar.
25 Jun 2012, 12:07 pm
@stormer in a teacup(stormer in a teacup)-25:
I agree.
25 Jun 2012, 12:07 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-20: spies is still our best 8 but at times he can be too passive. we have too many passive players and tht saps your intensity. you need players like fransie full of fight but without the filth of bissie. those players can take you places.
25 Jun 2012, 12:07 pm
@pokkel(pokkel)-21:
omfg
lmao
25 Jun 2012, 12:08 pm
i just spat my coffee out onto keyboard and monitor
25 Jun 2012, 12:09 pm
@pokkel(pokkel)-24: only a specialist 13 can be a 13 no more experiments! 13 is like tighthead, if you **** that up it can screw you up. 12 is like that as well. centres are not a place to d!ck around with little schemes like that. hougaard is our best 9 so far doesnt deserve the criticism he got. pienaar by contrast has been very average. just anti-bull nonsense again.
25 Jun 2012, 12:10 pm
@SteveWarren(SteveWarren)-10: Spies is a 7′s player stuck in the 15 man game.
25 Jun 2012, 12:10 pm
@Blitzbok(Blitzbok)-30:
I reckon I could be classified as somewhat of a Bulls supporter, and I don’t rate Hougaard as a scrumhalf.
25 Jun 2012, 12:11 pm
How quickly things change:
http://www.keo.co.za/2012/04/11/is-nine-where-hougaard-will-shine/
25 Jun 2012, 12:11 pm
@pokkel(pokkel)-21:
Hehehehehehehehe
25 Jun 2012, 12:13 pm
@Blitzbok(Blitzbok)-30:
Fair enough on him not playing 13…..but seriously Hougaard was shockingly bad on Saturday!
25 Jun 2012, 12:13 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-17:
That’s probably because Spies was the only forward not committed to the ruck.
25 Jun 2012, 12:13 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-32: well there isnt anyone better unless you want to try du preez.
25 Jun 2012, 12:15 pm
@Blitzbok(Blitzbok)-37:
Pienaar, Vermaak, that young chap from the Cheetahs.
All have better basic scrumhalf skills than Hougaard. Hougaard is a great runner with ball in hand.
But that doesn’t make him a scrumhalf.
25 Jun 2012, 12:17 pm
@David(David)-36: That could also be the reason why the english players apparently shouted “get spies”.
tacitus could you care to give me the approximate time/period when the incident took place? Much appreciated.
25 Jun 2012, 12:18 pm
I’m just worried Heyneke is stuck in the past.
He had a highly successful blueprint while at the Bulls. It worked.
The only problem is it’s now a few years later and rugby as a whole has adapted and developed.
Of course when he was at the Bulls he had the personnel for it.
Derick Hougaard was an extremely-accurate goalkicker and good territorial kicker. In Victor Matfield you had just about the best lineout exponent ever. The box kick by the scrumhalf was utilised often since in Fourie du Preez Heyneke had just about the most accurate box-kicker in the world.
Pierre Spies was a revelation at that time, the strong Bulls tight-five allowing him to play with more freedom in a ball carrying-and-linking role.
It all fell together – use the lineout as an attacking option, then use either the scrumhalf from the base of the ruck to set up a kick-chase, or the flyhalf to win the territorial kicking game.
Unfortunately those players are no longer there or what they were. This is probably why Heyneke tried so hard to get Victor and Fourie back into the fold.
Unfortunately we have new, inexperienced locks. Spies has become predictable and is closed down by the opposition. Hougaard is not an accurate box-kicker (in fact, he’s rather a wing).
Combine that with Morne Steyn losing his mojo and…
25 Jun 2012, 12:18 pm
Spies has been excellent under high ball and in the lineouts.
25 Jun 2012, 12:19 pm
I remember Skoppie waxing lyrical about old Heinie Adams, just because he cleared the ruck quickly.
But here’s the thing. Just because a scrumhalf mindlessly picks up every ball that pops out of the ruck and flings it wide without a thought doesn’t mean he is a good scrumhalf.
It’s about assessing the options in the blink of an eye, picking the right player to pass to, heck picking the right SIDE of the ruck to pass to, deciding to kick rather than pass, or carry it up to set up a better ball.
These are skills that a scrumhalf in SA absolutely must have, because we play of our secrumhalves a heck of a lot more than the Kiwis do.
The scrumhalf in SA rugby is traditionally the key decisionmaker – at least in the modern era – and this is where we are really missing Fourie du Preez.
25 Jun 2012, 12:19 pm
You don’t fluke 50 tests. Agreed Spies has promised more than he’s delivered but seriously are there any 8′s that are consistently better? I think not.
25 Jun 2012, 12:20 pm
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-40: the principles of the game never change. the emphasis can change but nothing has since Meyers bulls years.
25 Jun 2012, 12:20 pm
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-40:
Good analysis.
The answer is to find the personnel that can implement this gameplan. Get rid of the guys that can’t, because we have plenty of talent in SA.
25 Jun 2012, 12:21 pm
Really fitting that Spies’ 50th game was such a mediocre affair. Pretty much sums up his career. So many games we’ve lost over the last couple of years were a solid, hard working 8th man may have reversed the result.
25 Jun 2012, 12:21 pm
@John1976(John1976)-39:
I think it was in the last quarter of the game, if I recall correctly.
25 Jun 2012, 12:21 pm
^where
25 Jun 2012, 12:24 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-45:
OK, so who fits the bill?
Maybe Andries Bekker once he’s back from injury? I’m just worried (as a Stormers supporter) that Bekker’s back won’t hold up and his game time will be limited.
Who would you have as a box-kicking scrumhalf?
And who would you have at pivot for his territorial kicking and goal-kicking excellence?
25 Jun 2012, 12:26 pm
One thing I was very glad about was Nick Mallett clarifying on Saturday that a fetcher is not there to ensure you have quick ruck ball on attack.
The fetcher is there to slow down your opposition’s ball while they are on attack.
Heyneke’s gameplan also relies on hard, quick and accurate ruck cleanouts on attack to ensure quick and clean ball.
Unfortunately on a few occasions on Saturday our players were isolated and it seems that the accuracy and consistency just was not there when clearing rucks. A few times on attack our ball spilled out on the side.
If you want to play as Heyneke wants us to play, ball security on attack is vital.
25 Jun 2012, 12:29 pm
How much influence do you guys think Rassie has on the Boks play? I always see him next to Meyer in the coaches box?
25 Jun 2012, 12:30 pm
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-49:
Even during Super Rugby I could see that when Jano Vermaak comes on the Bulls seemed to play with more fluidity and direction than when Hougaard was at scrumhalf.
My point is not that Vermaak is the best scrummie in SA, but that he is skilled 9, with the basic skillset required by the position.
So is that youngster from the Free State, whose name I’ve forgotten.
And Pienaar is the most established and rounded 9 we’ve got, with many test caps behind his name. Plus he is a good goalkicker.
I’d play Hougaard as an impact player off the bench, a role in which he could be devestating.
Our lock stocks are thinned out, and the only solution here is time. Time for Etsebeth and Kruger to develop into international stars. So we must be patient there.
At 10 I would stick with Steyn, but give someone else the goalkicking duties until he gets his head straight again.
At loose forward I’d start with Alberts and Coetsee, and have Burger and Vermeulen in the matchday 22 once they’ve recovered.
Fullback is a concern. I don’t know what the solution is there. Maybe Taute, as many have suggested.
But the key is an impact bench containing:
Strauss
Coenie
Flip
Schalk Burger
Duane Vermeulen
Francois Hougaard
And maybe Gio Aplon as the wing/fullback cover.
All 7 replacements can make a massive impact once they come on. Alternatively, you could start some games with Vermeulen, and have Spies come on as impact player to run at the tired defenders.
We have many options, but the key is to get Pienaar in at 9, I reckon, and to have the correct loose forwards available again.
25 Jun 2012, 12:31 pm
@Lions_Soutie(Lions_Soutie)-41: Then he should play lock. He is an 8th man FFS. Yes, an 8th man should be a lineout option, but surely to a l l a h that is not his primary function as an 8th man?
When will he do the work required of him there? My guess – never.
25 Jun 2012, 12:33 pm
I’m looking forward to seeing what Vermullet can do.
I expect to see some devastating runs some bone jarring tackles and inspired work at the back of the lineout.
25 Jun 2012, 12:35 pm
@the artist formerly known as gunther(gunther)-54:
I don’t rate him very highly, to be honest. But in the absence of Juan Smith, Jacques Cronje, Pedrie Wannenburg or Danie Rossouw, he is pretty much the only reasonably tall, reasonable strong, reasonably mobile loose forward we’ve got left.
He is there to fill the gap until a new Juan Smith arises.
25 Jun 2012, 12:39 pm
@the artist formerly known as gunther(gunther)-54: With Duane you know what you are getting. Nothing flash and nothing fast. But just because you know what you are getting, doesn’t make it any easier to stop him doing what it is he does.
Like the Bulls, as you chaps say. Everyone knows whats coming, yet nothing can be done to nullify the threat. Ditto for Duane. (Copyright HG: BOOM)
25 Jun 2012, 12:41 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-55:
well, one way or another a lot of people will be shut up.
I really rated Ashley Johnson in that regard, his fitness never seemed to be what it should though.
25 Jun 2012, 12:44 pm
@Unplugged(Unplugged)-51: My apologies question was meant for “Boks must make mental shift”
25 Jun 2012, 12:47 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged by Mad Eye Productions.(The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food)-56:
Well we shall see.
25 Jun 2012, 12:47 pm
@the artist formerly known as gunther(gunther)-57:
I’m feeling a bit glum about our loose forward stocks after CJ Stander’s betrayal, to be honest.
25 Jun 2012, 12:47 pm
hougards best strength is when his running with the ball in hand in space and thats almost totaly negated at scrumhalve where he has to deal with flanks and other forwards.
25 Jun 2012, 12:53 pm
Pierre Spies is a true blow-up doll. His muscles is nothing more than hot air.
Heck. I myself are just about 5cm taller than Spies. When I weighed 108kg (in my school years) I was considered way underweight. Now, consider that muscle mass is much heavier than fat mass… you gotta wonder.
Point is, he’s a body builder. Those muscles are ‘blown up’, and have very little mass to speak of. You’ll never hear that Spies is strong or even powerful… since all he does in the gym is pump with light weights.
I think he can still achieve something, but he should stop pumping and actually do some serious weights. THEN we’ll see a Spies worth talking about. Come on, the ‘dude’ is a model!
25 Jun 2012, 13:01 pm
A magic wand is waved and all these players are magically healed:
1. Coenie (Beast is overrated)
2. Bissie
3. Jannie (but I’d have Steenkamp)
4. Eben
5. Bekker
6. Burger
7. Alberts
8. Vermeulen
9. Ruan (he did a lot better than Hougaard on sat)
10. The Goose or Peter Grant (can’t be worse than Morne)
11. Habs
12. Fransie
13. JdV
14. JPP
15. Taute
16. Juandre
17. Marcell
18. Beast or a prop that can play both sides (Kitshoff?/)
19. Hougaard to cover 9 and wing
20. Aplon
21. Chilliboy (Strauss had his chance!)
22. Kolisi or another back
There is very little wrong with this team…
25 Jun 2012, 13:01 pm
One part of the test in PE stick out like a sore thumb.
Jacques Potgieter fielding the ball inside his 22 from a kick off and going on a bullocking run. Some English player literally fell in front of him (did not even try to make a conventional tackle) and Potgieter donnered over this oke, could keep his footing and fell.
It summarised South African rugby players and the role of our ball carriers (even in the backline for most part) to a tee.
Players are so dead-set in looking for contact but fail to attack the space (even if only 40cm) to either side of a defender (which will allow them to at least get hands through a tackle or gain a valuable meter in contact) that even an obstacle they cannot get their feet over will see them go to ground.
You want to single, most significant difference between South African players and Kiwis (who we compare ourselves against all the time) start there.
In fact, try and pick out any Kiwi player this weekend in Super Rugby who goes into contact as ball carriers (even deliberately setting up 2nd or 3rd phases in midfield) that uses the same technique (full front on contact using both arms and shoulders i.e. front on, with the ball tucked somewhere deep inside there) to that of a Duane Vermeulen, Schalk Burger, Jacques Potgieter, Willem Alberts, etc…
25 Jun 2012, 13:02 pm
@bangkok-bok(bangkok-bok)-63:
Steenkamp is a loosehead!
25 Jun 2012, 13:03 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-52: I would bring Fourie back to SA.
25 Jun 2012, 13:07 pm
@pokkel(pokkel)-65: Apologies- Steenkamp at and Coenie to swap as Coenie can play either side.
25 Jun 2012, 13:07 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-64:
Aplon is a ball-carrier who tries to avoid contact
25 Jun 2012, 13:07 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-64:
I agree and the Boks skill level is nowhere compared to the All Blacks. We might beat them through pure grit and determination from time to time but overall our skills are lacking.
The All Black 9-10-12 combo were magnificent on Saturday then compare that to Hougaard, Steyn and Olivier and it’s not even a contest I’m afraid.
25 Jun 2012, 13:08 pm
@Bouts(Bouts)-62: Not True he is one of the strongest among the boks in the gym. He competes with the props. But that does not give you mongral. But saying that HM will always choose him so lets hope HM gets the best out of him.
25 Jun 2012, 13:09 pm
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-68:
Haha, he has no choice!
25 Jun 2012, 13:10 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-64:
It’s something we’ve been saying for years.
From a young age, the SA mentality is one of “soek kontak”, “bliksem hom” – the physicality of rugby is what entices us to play it.
Kids are encouraged to take contact, to actively look for it.
But it’s simply no longer good enough. Where in the past (i.e. 50s,60s, 70s) the South Africans still had a quite large advantage over the rest of the world in terms of the physicality of our players, I believe this has evened out very quickly.
The All Blacks and Wallabies seem to have always tried to play in a way where they avoid contact, looking to rather run around a player than through him.
This is a philosophy that gets instilled from a young age.
Which is why I’ve always felt that touch rugby is an extremely useful training exercise for rugby union. It really forces players to start looking for gaps.
What players like Aplon bring is that Sevens influence, where, once again, you don’t look for the contact. You look for the gap and, if tackled, a quick off-load, link.
25 Jun 2012, 13:14 pm
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-72: Very true! this will be very hard to break though. I remember being in an English school and when we played an Afrikaans school it was the same: “Let’s mo*er those dutchmen etc”. And I’m sure that on the other bus they’re saying the same!
That hasn’t changed today- my nephew is at Grey and I hear the same words from his mates when they play an Afrikaans school. VERY, VERY hard mindset to break.
25 Jun 2012, 13:17 pm
It i Spies”S turn again Wynand had a very good game……………..
25 Jun 2012, 13:18 pm
Spies just isn’t good enough.
Hes had some good Tests, for sure, but how this hype over substance player got to accumulate 50 test caps, the most of any 8th man in SA history is a disgrace.
25 Jun 2012, 13:20 pm
@Stormersboy recons it is totally going to be our year(stormersboy)-75:
Are you in Reconnaissance now?
25 Jun 2012, 13:21 pm
@Stompie till I die!!!!(phil72)-74: As a gatekeeper- Wynand did have a good game and made me swallow my words. He just does not gel with JDV and provides little on attack. is defense was good though but we have better options.
25 Jun 2012, 13:24 pm
Does @Twig have any evidence for his fantastic claim that Spies was on Steroids. Somehow I don’t think we’ll see any evidence. It’s just the further promoting of superstitious lies, which is obviously something he takes great pride in.
25 Jun 2012, 13:27 pm
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-76: No he is an accountant doing recons. Not tough enough to be a Rekkie
25 Jun 2012, 13:29 pm
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-72: Agree to a point but look at players of the past like Danie Gerber, Johan Heunis etc. Today Aus and NZ have caught up to us physically with their imported Islanders.
25 Jun 2012, 13:29 pm
@Airwell(Airwell)-79:
Hehehe.
He’s not that kind of operator.
25 Jun 2012, 13:30 pm
Best team for a running game:
1 Beast
2 Biz (thin ice)
3 Coenie
4 Etsebeth
5 Bekker
6 Brussouw
7 Kolisi
8 Burger
9 Sarel
10 Goosen
11 Le Roux
12 Frans
13 Ebersohn
14 Hougaard
15 Joe/Aplon
25 Jun 2012, 13:33 pm
@RefuGSpot(garth)-82:
What exactly has our current wings done wrong to be dropped. Also Ebersohn will have to learn to tackle first before he can become a Bok.
25 Jun 2012, 13:38 pm
@RefuGSpot(garth)-82: One can dream can’t they?
Spies so horse **** I wonder how he got 50 caps. Just because his fast and muscular it doesn’t equate to him being a good rugby player. For every time he goes forward he gets driven back twice. Vermeulen should have gotten capped ages ago
25 Jun 2012, 13:38 pm
Best team for a running game.
25 Jun 2012, 13:40 pm
@pokkel(pokkel)-83: Ebersohn just needs to stay in line and make the tackles. He makes some extraordinary tackles then misses a simple one. However, he is the most skilled back in South Africa.
25 Jun 2012, 13:43 pm
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-50:
Exactly. English quick ball was not our problem in any of the 3 Tests.
25 Jun 2012, 13:43 pm
@RefuGSpot(garth)-85: @SAfan4life(SAfan4life)-86:
Fair enough but test rugby isn’t all about running.
25 Jun 2012, 13:46 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-60:
What do you mean his betrayal? Is he planning on qualifying for Ireland?
25 Jun 2012, 13:46 pm
@Stormersboy recons it is totally going to be our year(stormersboy)-75:
totally hey…
25 Jun 2012, 13:47 pm
World 15 on News24
15 Israel Dagg (NZ), 14 JP Pietersen (SA), 13 Conrad Smith (NZ), 12 Sonny Bill Williams (NZ), 11 Digby Ioane (Aus), 10 Dan Carter (NZ) 9 Aaron Smith (NZ), 8 Kieran Read (NZ), 7 Willem Alberts (SA), 6 David Pocock (Aus), 5 Nathan Sharpe (Aus), 4 Eben Etzebeth (SA), 3 Adam Jones (Wal), 2 Bismarck du Plessis (SA), 1 Cian Healy (Ire)
25 Jun 2012, 13:49 pm
@RefuGSpot(garth)-91:
Interesting. No Englishmen.
Six Kiwis, four Saffas, and three Aussies.
25 Jun 2012, 13:49 pm
@pokkel(pokkel)-88: You can teach someone to tackle, but you can’t give him the talent to step around people, just ask Brian. Le Roux and Hougaard have that basic skill to build on.
25 Jun 2012, 13:50 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-64:
That is a valid criticism.
25 Jun 2012, 13:51 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRReGmiQC9k&feature=related
Here’s the link to the 2nd test where they are going “Get to Spies, get to Spies” at 1:33:05
25 Jun 2012, 13:52 pm
@pokkel(pokkel)-88: True but the best teams have the ability to play both a conservative and expansive gameplan
25 Jun 2012, 13:52 pm
No Bulls, that can’t be true! HM wake up.
25 Jun 2012, 13:54 pm
@SAfan4life(SAfan4life)-96: and at the moment the AB’s are without doubt the best at that type of play.
25 Jun 2012, 14:00 pm
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-76: Fully Bru!
25 Jun 2012, 14:00 pm
We don’t have the skill levels to compete with the All Blacks, and no longer have a physical edge over teams.
It’s time to introduce the offload and its associated support lines in our game.
Attack and dominate the space, not the man.
25 Jun 2012, 14:02 pm
@willievz(willievz)-100:
Janee. En “touch rugby” is een manier om dit aan te leer.
25 Jun 2012, 14:02 pm
@toulon says(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-90: You heard it here first!
With Bruno in our team anything can happen!
25 Jun 2012, 14:03 pm
Cliche-ridden article with a pathetic go at January. Very poor form.
Spies had a decent three games. I’d like to see him tackle more with his shoulders than his arms.
25 Jun 2012, 14:05 pm
@willievz(willievz)-100: Its pretty simple really. I was hoping the Boks would start doing this under PdV reign but nope not do be. Until we start adding dimensions to our game we going to stay stuck. IF YOU DO WHAT YOU’VE ALWAYS DONE YOU’LL GET WHAT YOU’VE ALWAYS GOTTEN
25 Jun 2012, 14:07 pm
@SAfan4life(SAfan4life)-104: Actually you might get less because the game evolves and teams adapt
25 Jun 2012, 14:09 pm
@SAfan4life(SAfan4life)-104:
They did start doing it in 2008 under Div,then pressure came from media,*** scandal,Antipodean ridicule,Hoskins statement,Call for Matfield-Smit-Du Preez etc Too much pressure.He succumbed
Under Meyer there is no chance
25 Jun 2012, 14:09 pm
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-50: The opensider needs to do both.
He needs to be a continuity-type player and someone who can slow down the opposition’s ruck ball.
I am surprised that Mallett commented as he did, because the Richies and Brussows of the world are very good continuity players on offense – both by keeping the ball alive, but also at entering the offensive ruck with a low centre of gravity when supporting.
Coetzee is a very good ball carrier (although I sometimes think he is not very effective in the wider channels), but he does not play the game required by an opensider on defense. It was clear that when our flankers tackled a player, they did not attempt to contribute to the ruck after releasing / rolling away in the first instance. They can still join the ruck provided they are back on their feet and joining from behind and binding correctly. And by entering the ruck with a low centre of gravity you slow down the oppositions’ ruck ball – such defenders are also harder to countterruck away legally as there is a higher risk for counterruckers not supporting their own bodyweight.
25 Jun 2012, 14:09 pm
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-101: En Sewes.
25 Jun 2012, 14:12 pm
@SAfan4life(SAfan4life)-104: PDV started off with a more expansive approach, and notably picking Adrian Jacobs at 13.
The idea behind this was partly to split the offensive line when the 12 made contact so that you can end with the 10 and 13 as first receivers on both sides of the collision node.
He also picked players like Jacobs who are better distributors in close spaces and who can keep the ball alive / offload.
I wondered how SA Rugby would have benefited if we allowed him to diffuse his rugby philosophy properly.
25 Jun 2012, 14:14 pm
@Stormersboy recons it is totally going to be our year(stormersboy)-102:
hehehe
so tell me… the boks game on saturday was so light… was this because it was in the main so heavy..?..
National Guard Officer: What type of belt is that, candidate? What is that?
Brüno: D and G.
National Guard Officer: What is D and G?
Brüno: Dolce and Gabbana, hellllooo.
25 Jun 2012, 14:14 pm
someone tell me why us South African players and teams with perfect rugby conditions prefer k a k kick and chase 10man rugby compared to the horrible conditions in NZ and THEY play the running and winning game!!?? It really doesn’t make sense.
And all this talk of our strenghts. Do we really believe an extra 10kg in the collective pack over our competitors make us stronger in world rugby??? When was the last time we bullied either NZ or Aus in the scrums or the loose?
25 Jun 2012, 14:17 pm
@willievz(willievz)-108:
Stem saam, soos ek vroëer gesê het, Sewes is een van die redes hoekom daardie eks-Dagbreker soos ‘n teug vars asem is sodra hy op die veld kom.
25 Jun 2012, 14:23 pm
OK so here is my question, everyone know that he is $h1te and when we have
Koster
Burger
Vermulen
Alberts
Kanko
Daniel
Strauss
Johnston
Big Joe
Sowerby
Who can all play No 8………..why is the fixation on this geezer,
25 Jun 2012, 14:25 pm
@toulon says(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-110:
I am a big Allie G fan, and of the “Öld Borat”, the guy who would make cameos in the old Ali G shows.
Too much of Borat and Bruno is not as funny.
Ali G is classic though.
Have you seen the dictator??
25 Jun 2012, 14:26 pm
@SAfan4life(SAfan4life)-104: exactly! Definition of stupidity: ‘doing the same thing over and over expecting the different result’. That’s bok rugby for you since 1999.
25 Jun 2012, 14:28 pm
@Stormersboy recons it is totally going to be our year(stormersboy)-114:
Ali G: “So what does ATF stand for?”
ATF Trainer: “Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives.”
Ali G: “And what else does you sell?”
25 Jun 2012, 14:30 pm
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-116: Classic Stuff.
The one where he has the FBI Drugs guys is also very funny.
25 Jun 2012, 14:32 pm
@Stormersboy recons it is totally going to be our year(stormersboy)-114:
(Interviewing DEA officer)
“What is the different types of hash out there? We all know that it’s called the bionic, the bomb, the puff, the blow, the black, the herb, the sensie, the chronic, the sweet Mary-Jane, the ****, ganja, spliff, reefa, the bad, the Buddah, the home-grown, the ill, the maui-maui, the method, pot, lethal turbo, tie, shake, skunk, stress, whacky, weed, glaze, the boot, dimebag, Scooby Doo, bob, bogey, backyard boogie.
But what is the other terms for it?”
25 Jun 2012, 14:36 pm
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-118: “So are dere any negative side effects?”, after the bloke has listed all the hallucinations, disorientation and paranoia.
25 Jun 2012, 14:37 pm
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-101:
I wrote this a year ago I think based on similar sentiments.
It’s not too long this time…
The biggest gift we can give our kids or the next generation of sports men and women, is to remove the fear of failure from their minds.
Being a father of a 4-year old boy is one of the most rewarding experiences I have had as a human being. As any father, or mother will tell you, unconditional love has no equal.
Of course it does not come without its challenges, and knowing that how you deal with those challenges will ultimately shape your child’s future, or who he or she will become, is enough to scare the living **** out of anyone!
Being part of a rugby, and general sports-mad family, it should come as no surprise that he has about 15 balls of all shapes and sizes – all of which are used and abused more than the family pets (luckily). Even his fish (which we have to feed of course) have been christened with his favourite rugby players – all of whom takes up a large portion of his wall in his room as-well!
Such is his frustration in cold, miserable Cape Town winters, that dad has been forced to buy special sports equipment which may be used inside the house and garage without fear of breaking anything!
And it is in these moments when you see him hit a six over the kitchen counter into the dogs bed, destroy the gardening equipment in the garage by scoring a goal, and insisting that only he is allowed to call ‘touch, pause, engage’ when we ‘scrum’, that you notice the absolute freedom and happiness they find and enjoy as uncorrupted individuals or minds when playing sport.
You are taken back as a parent to the days of your childhood, where we used to emulate our cricket or rugby heroes in the backyard with our brothers and neighbour’s kids. You are reminded how you used to love the game back then, where issues of mismanagement, quotas, or any other issue that clouds the spirit of the game in your mind today, meant absolutely nothing.
We were all there once, that place where we had an unconditional love for the game, but with most things in life, our minds became corrupted and that we once enjoyed, today we fear.
It was reading the brilliant article by Tom Dawson-Squib on Rugby365 where I realised that we as parents arguably play the biggest roles when it comes to corrupting our kids and robbing them of their innocence.
As we move on in life the space in which we found happiness and sense was somehow replaced with distrust and fear, and it is this fear Tom Dawson-Squib talks about which makes us frail as a sporting nation.
At some point we decided to rather not hit that six because if we do, we might just get caught in the outfield and let the team and the supporters down. Today, we would rather suppress our instincts or that which gives us (and those around us) such joy because the fear of making a mistake, or God-forbid lose because of a wrong decision or poorly executed move, weighs far greater on our shoulders and minds than the actual joy of just doing what we love.
There is nothing wrong with a conservative, or well analysed approach to limit risk in life and in sport, but we are doing ourselves and our kids such a massive disservice when conservatism through indoctrination becomes a natural instinct rather than one of 5 or 10 options.
Perhaps we need to remind ourselves that being fearless does not mean being careless, it is simply the mindset that in losing you can also win – IF you do not fear losing itself. Isn’t that what being champions are about? Isn’t that what being brave is about?
It might be too late for us to change our approach or mindset, but there is nothing which suggest that we cannot teach, or coach our kids and the next generation of sportsmen and women to become fearless. We just need to become brave again like we once were, and our children are today.
25 Jun 2012, 14:37 pm
25 Jun 2012, 14:37 pm
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-118: Love it!
25 Jun 2012, 14:38 pm
@willievz(willievz)-109: I remember the SA vs Aus game where we hammered them 58 – 8 the JdV and Jacobs combo were irrepressible. There was one particular moment when JdV ran into space and gave a brilliant offload to Jacobs who proceeded to run 40 m stepped the fullback and scored. Brilliant.
25 Jun 2012, 14:38 pm
Okay maybe its a tad long…
25 Jun 2012, 14:39 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-119:
Yip, that was hilarious.
25 Jun 2012, 14:43 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-124: That’s OK, post 121 made up for it
25 Jun 2012, 14:49 pm
@Stormersboy recons it is totally going to be our year(stormersboy)-126:
Hehe. I had to close the tag…
25 Jun 2012, 14:49 pm
Thought it might be relevant since you guys were mentioning schoolboys etc.
25 Jun 2012, 14:51 pm
@PissAnt(PissAnt)-128: Very good piece. I have 2 sons so I can relate to what you said.
25 Jun 2012, 14:52 pm
Ryan
You gotta lose this fascination with Kieran Read. Simply because you know your rugby.
There are far better 8s than him on the globe.
25 Jun 2012, 14:53 pm
@willievz(willievz)-130:
Like Parisse.
25 Jun 2012, 14:55 pm
There was only one bok team who were world beaters, nick’s class of ’97 – ’98. In my opinion, they were also the only team that could play decent rugby.
Mark my words, Heyneke’s 10 man rugby will never work against the kiwi’s. They will run us ragged with all the posession.
25 Jun 2012, 14:56 pm
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-131: Yes.
Harinordoquy too – even though he primary plays as a blindsider nowadays, he is a superb linking 8 – apparently this is what gives Read the “edge” a-la Ryan and Transformation
But he does not have the physical attributes of the Alberts’, Heaslips, Falataus and Bonnaires of this world – as a ball carrier, I find Read to be quite limited actually.
25 Jun 2012, 15:04 pm
@Stormersboy recons it is totally going to be our year(stormersboy)-114:
no i haven’t, is it any good?
25 Jun 2012, 15:10 pm
@logie_Jumpbuck(logie_Jumpbuck)-132:
to be fair,
give them time.
heynekes bulls were pretty unbeatable between 2007 and 2012.
25 Jun 2012, 15:11 pm
also a dirty player that read.
25 Jun 2012, 15:22 pm
@willievz(willievz)-130: there are none in the Southern Hemisphere!
25 Jun 2012, 15:27 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-137:
Alberts, Vermeulen, Johnson, Strauss.
I’d pick all of them ahead of Read.
25 Jun 2012, 15:30 pm
@willievz(willievz)-133: opinions willie…alberts for instance neither has the skillset and game reading intelligence of read.
just opinions.
25 Jun 2012, 15:32 pm
@willievz(willievz)-138: ja and lose
25 Jun 2012, 15:33 pm
@willievz(willievz)-100:
If we don’t have the skills and we don’t have the physicality (which is BS as seen in first 2 Tests) then there is nothing to fix. According to your statement we are just not good enough then.
25 Jun 2012, 15:34 pm
@willievz(willievz)-138:
You’re delusional!
25 Jun 2012, 15:36 pm
@logie_Jumpbuck(logie_Jumpbuck)-132:
He doesn’t play 10 man rugby and you are an idiot for thinking that.
25 Jun 2012, 15:36 pm
If Spies was a Kiwi he would have been dropped already. That is a fact of life.
25 Jun 2012, 15:37 pm
@STBUR(STBUR)-141: Thanks for your comment.
@pokkel(pokkel)-142: As Transie said, it is opinions. I don’t see the hype around Read, he is pretty ordinary IMO.
25 Jun 2012, 15:42 pm
“No incompetent player plays 50 Tests (although Ricky Januarie came close with 47)”
Fark Ryan, there was no need to label Ricky as incompetent.
I been following all sport for a long time and Ricky’s try in Dunedin was my greatest sporting moment ever…..
25 Jun 2012, 16:01 pm
@SAfan4life(SAfan4life)-104: @mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-106: Haskell wants more from England
Published: Monday, 25. June, 2012
James Haskell believes England still have some way to go despite showing considerable improvement during their tour of South Africa.
Stuart Lancaster’s revamped side maintained the progress they began in this year’s Six Nations with three battling displays in their Test matches against the Springboks but still lost the series 2-0.
Haskell, who made an impressive international return in Saturday’s battling 14-14 draw in Port Elizabeth, feels he knows the areas the team needs to work on.
The 27-year-old flanker said: “To draw or win against a southern hemisphere side is pretty special, especially on their own turf.
“Moving towards the autumn internationals, hopefully this has been a big step, but I think we have got to be a bit more creative in attack. We have got to test teams a bit more.
“We have got the physicality and the ability to finish. We have just got to be a bit smarter, get the likes of (Chris) Ashton and Manu (Tuilagi) running through holes rather than at people.”
England will play the Springboks again during their autumn international programme later this year, as well as facing Australia, New Zealand and Fiji.
Haskell expects the current group of relatively inexperienced players to grow into a tougher unit.
25 Jun 2012, 16:04 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-147:
These NH sides don’t have very high standards……if I was an England supporter I would have been ashamed because my team couldn’t beat a terrible Springbok team on the day.
25 Jun 2012, 16:04 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-147:
How embraboer.
25 Jun 2012, 16:10 pm
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-149: @pokkel(pokkel)-148: imagine if they’d won
they’d be saying their dead rubber win is more significant than the series win
25 Jun 2012, 16:10 pm
Eish, kearney
Kearney, though, felt the hosts’ guile and handling skills were the key factor.
“They all offload in the tackle and that is the strength of their game,” said Kearney.
“I think that was our biggest weakness, as a team, that we didn’t stop their offloads.
“We know that against New Zealand you have to stop the offloads. We didn’t do it tonight and they got a lot of tries from it.”
The Irish backline were also overpowered by that of the All Blacks, though, with the point emphatically emphasised on 49 minutes when winger Hosea Gear outpaced Fergus McFadden down the left and paused to pole-axe Keith Earls before dragging the trailing McFadden over the tryline.
When asked what the main differences was between the two sides, Kearney responded, “It is the speed they play at, the intensity that they play at and sheer size as well.
“They are bigger than us. That is something we need to address as well. Are we built differently? I don’t know.”
25 Jun 2012, 16:18 pm
Who’s Bruno?
25 Jun 2012, 16:18 pm
Euro 2004… SA rugby has always reminded me of the Italian soccer team… Not the most beautiful on the eye… But have got championships of note… NZ would be the Brazil, or more presently, the Spain…. loads of Championships and beautiful on the eye… just the way it is… Italy can never be Brazil…. unless we wait 10/15 years for a complete overhaul of the system, just as only this decade in Spanish football , the dutch influence of the Johann Cruyff amongst others started filtering in… In 2000/2001 i think, Boks tried doing a Brumbies type overhaul…. did nt work… SA will always have a good shot at WCs, wont neccessarily be beautiful on the eye tho, just the way it is…
25 Jun 2012, 16:19 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-147: “To draw or win against a southern hemisphere side is pretty special, especially on their own turf.”
They didn’t win, so how come he gets to lump the word “win” in with their draw?
25 Jun 2012, 16:19 pm
oh yes, ans Spies is no better than Januarie is / was…
25 Jun 2012, 16:20 pm
@Dawn(Dawn)-152: Fashionista from Austria.
25 Jun 2012, 16:25 pm
@willievz(willievz)-138: Read is a better 8th man than all of them. But he remains a Toss.
25 Jun 2012, 16:32 pm
@Dawn(Dawn)-152:
Brüno Gehard is a flamboyant Austrian fashion reporter.
He dreams of being the most famous Austrian since Hitler.
25 Jun 2012, 16:58 pm
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-158: ja and that Fritzl chap.
25 Jun 2012, 17:00 pm
@Stormersboy recons it is totally going to be our year(stormersboy)-159: Und Falco.
25 Jun 2012, 17:01 pm
Ooh, Rock Me Amadeus.
25 Jun 2012, 17:04 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-160: @>^..^< katman(katman)-161: Ja Dahlink!
Falco. Now I’ve got that Falking song in my head.
25 Jun 2012, 17:07 pm
And let’s not forget “Ahhhhnie”. And that Glock fella who makes plastic guns.
25 Jun 2012, 17:10 pm
@Stormersboy recons it is totally going to be our year(stormersboy)-163: Und Apfelstrudel, und Mozart, und Red Bull…
25 Jun 2012, 17:12 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-164: Und Wiener Schnitzel natürlich.
25 Jun 2012, 17:19 pm
@>^..^< katman(katman)-164: @Stormersboy recons it is totally going to be our year(stormersboy)-165:
Und Steyr.
Und Glock.
25 Jun 2012, 17:19 pm
@Stormersboy recons it is totally going to be our year(stormersboy)-163:
Snap, missed that!
25 Jun 2012, 17:41 pm
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-167: I knew you’d pick up on the guns.
25 Jun 2012, 17:55 pm
Kieran read is the best 8thman on the planet. Had the entire skillset as an 8,linkman,grunt,runner the works.Special player.
8′s in the SH are below par after Read.Well those incumbents in both Oz & Oz arent average at best(Palu/Spies)
Northern hemisphere has some fine 8′s:
Faletau
Harinodiquoy
Picamoles
Parisse
Denton
All better than Spies,Palu
25 Jun 2012, 17:55 pm
I would pick Hougaard at 8 before Spies
25 Jun 2012, 18:08 pm
Vermeulen it is for me. Getting nailed by strause , getting up without a boot and tackling mvovo shows commitment http://youtu.be/fgljNBXFHZs
25 Jun 2012, 18:32 pm
@mshiniwami(mshiniwami)-169: I would rate Parise as the best 8, he just plays for Italy unfortunately. So classy.
25 Jun 2012, 18:35 pm
Have never been crazy about Spies, cant understand why he has been selected by 3 different Springbok coaches.
He obviously has something going for him if he keeps getting chosen but I don’t see it, well not as a forward player anyway, do think he would be a better backline player.
25 Jun 2012, 18:46 pm
I have listened to the kiwi commentators and they seem to rate spies as a good No 8 but the public and press in SA do not who is right and who is wrong.
25 Jun 2012, 19:02 pm
Spies is a farken liability, he’s more shocking than Bruno’s mexican furniture.
25 Jun 2012, 19:10 pm
@blueboy: it’s called blowing smoke up the arse!
25 Jun 2012, 19:21 pm
If bismark.Etsebeth and jannie had to realize that they are not centers and more suited to cleaning out and rucking it would create the opportunity for Spies not to do all the hard grunt but look for more effective running angles! We are blaming spies for the boks not having 1 decent tight forward to do the hard work!
25 Jun 2012, 19:24 pm
@Stompie till I die!!!!(phil72)-177:
I do not think you guys realize how much we are missing Bakkies, Danie and Guthro… They used to do all the hard grunt!
25 Jun 2012, 19:26 pm
@Stompie till I die!!!!(phil72)-178:
And this is another reason why Hougie getting horrible back foot ball to steyn…. All the center and fly-half wannabees in the forwards…..
25 Jun 2012, 20:06 pm
He played all of his school rugby at number 8 i know because i watched him and was only played on the wing for SA u/19 and bulls age group teams as a professional rugby writer make an effort and do the research.
25 Jun 2012, 20:10 pm
@J.c.G province(J.c.G province)-180:
Rugby writer.
25 Jun 2012, 20:16 pm
He’s a kak No.8
pity the boffins that rate him can’t see the reality about how abysmal the Bok mix of loosies have been.. not only this year but ever since 2006 and before that too.
Wrong mix of loosies.. The ONLY time we ever saw it come right was when Brussow got the No.6 jersey by DEFAULT when Schalk Burger was suspended out the Bok team.
25 Jun 2012, 20:19 pm
@louis schropnel(louis shrapnel)-182:
Because bakkies, danie and guthro were doing all the grunt work!
25 Jun 2012, 20:20 pm
@Stompie till I die!!!!(phil72)-183:
And now we are leaving it to bismask’s sister….
25 Jun 2012, 20:23 pm
Some prize clowns like Bouts in this lot of comments – he’s as cretinish as Snotskiet, and that is saying something. SA’s problem is not Spies, it’s how he’s coached. Read has an average skill set but is made to look good by careful coaching and good support, on and off the field. Something SA seems to lack.
25 Jun 2012, 20:24 pm
@Stompie till I die!!!!(phil72)-183:
so your dumb coach selects Spies, Potgieter, Coetsee and Kanko
ALL four of them trying to become the great wunderkind ball carrying wizard of OZ
how dumb pathetically deluded is THAT.!!
25 Jun 2012, 20:29 pm
@husky(husky)-185: you just one dumb moron.. except you actually think you’re smart.. that’s how dumb a myopic moron you actually are
Spies is the problem.. he has been the problem for the past 50 tests already.. but dumb myopic moronic microorganisms such as these simply still cannot see it..
and then the dumb coach goes and exacerbates the problem by picking Potgieter, Coetsee and Kankowski to compliment the problem and multiply it by 4
25 Jun 2012, 20:31 pm
@louis schropnel(louis shrapnel)-187:
Agree with you again….. Coetsee and Kankakski just not good enough!!!
25 Jun 2012, 20:38 pm
Now… Lets try and figure out this so-called position we managed to find ourselves in. As a team, coach, country and players we are unable to build a team around Pierre Spies!!!!!!!! Probably one of the best athletes on the planet ever……………….. Now it is not about why it happened…. It is about how to fix this idiotic situation!!!!
25 Jun 2012, 20:47 pm
Coetsee is a schooled 8 trying to hybrid it at 6.. all flurry and fluster frenetically and frantically blustering his way into the first line of defense he can find.. Schalk Burger take a bow your protege has landed.
Spies is an UNSCHOOLED 8 trying to hybrid it as a center come wing come dainty dish that don’t wanna get his panties soiled.
Potgieter is a maljaap unschooled Schalk Burger wannabe poorly coached and non linking clone. I dunno where he came flying out of nowhere from but he most CERTAINLY is NOT the answer to our loosie mix woes…
Kanko is a crabbing dizzy spinning speedster no. 8 in the Pierre Spies mold
SO effectively we have THREE number 8′s ALL wanting to show how effectively they can CARRY the ball INTO the goddamn dirt.. because that is ALL they ever do is head STRAIGHT for the dirt as soon as first sign of contact beckons..
and ONE unschooled I dunno what who HITS the dirt even before a finger is laid on him.. go check Potgieters presentation again of HOW to bust through the tackle.. you sommer go DOWN before the opposition lays a finger on you.. thats how you AVOID being tackled…
25 Jun 2012, 20:48 pm
The dig against Ricky January was really unneccary!! Ricky was an outstanding player, solid defense especially around the scrums and rucks, sniping runs and a never say die attitude. He never let the Boks down. This was supposed to be an analysis on Pierre Spies!! For goodness sake!! Ryan this is disappointing!!
25 Jun 2012, 20:50 pm
@Stompie till I die!!!!(phil72)-189:
DROP HIM… problem solved
easy as goddamn pie
Jake figured it out before the disaster happened.. Spies developed some mysterious hereditary disease and jake had an easy out excuse.. he sommer didn’t even have to make the tough decision.. Spies got canned out the Boks by himself and Jake could play a PROPER bulldozer 8 in Roussouw and Bismark the tough nut fetching hooker took Spiesietjies place..
Voila.. like magic.. PROBLEM SOLVED..
25 Jun 2012, 20:56 pm
@louis schropnel(louis shrapnel)-192:
And now………… sudenly KANKAKSKI WILL BE THE MAN………….. do not call that problem solved……….. it is about 27 steps backwards?
25 Jun 2012, 20:56 pm
This Bok team has quite a way to go.
Heyneke I believe you will be a good coach. A great one will take some hard decisions.
Pienaar Vs Frankie Hollywood.
Morne Steyn Vs Elton Jantjes
Pierre Spies Vs Duane Vermulen or anyone else that plays 8.
Robert Ebersohn, Juan De Jongh, with Jean De Villers moving to 12.
Francois Steyn moving to 15.
Never to ever put Ryan Kankowski or Wynand Olivier in Green & Gold again (notwithstanding a hit of pure beauty from Kanko on Saturday).
Find a reserve prop that can play both sides – Coenie injured, who else Brok Harris, CJ VD Linde?
Coetzee Vs Brussow. (Alberts, Vermulen, Brussow.)
Choosing players from teams other than the Blue Bulls.
Right now the All blacks will donder us, and Wales, Ireland & France could well do too.
25 Jun 2012, 20:59 pm
@louis schropnel(louis shrapnel)-192: Skops I think I may be in shock, but was that a positive post on Jake White? I dunno. Maybe you aren’t skoppies. I dunno my world has gone all topsy turvy.
25 Jun 2012, 21:03 pm
@Stompie till I die!!!!(phil72)-193: Kankakski is utter KAK.. but try sell the reality to Herr Meyer.. he reckons he’s the next BEST thing.. after Spiesietjie of course…
Kankakski, along with Potgieter and Spies … 3 of a kind ALL rolled into one trying to CARRY the ball into no mans land.. . with Coetsee beating them all to it..
NOBODY doing ANY of the HARD arse graft where it ACTUALLY matters and Counts…. At the collision and in the thick of the breakdown!!!
No sirreee… we ALL wanna be the guy that CARRIES the ball into the goddamn dirt .. cause then it LOOKS like we doing SOMETHING effectively..
25 Jun 2012, 21:10 pm
@louis schropnel(louis shrapnel)-196:
We need Schalk, Alberts and a athlete at 8… Have to say Spies the best option… have to keep this balanced…. We need Rossouw( anybody with balls) at 4 and Bekker at 5. And lease any tight forward that can do some hard work up front, would excuse bissie as he is also the fetcher, but as for his sister………………..
25 Jun 2012, 21:11 pm
@SodaJoe(SodaJoe)-195:
Jake got lucky.. he selected Spies.. then he realized his mistake a little late knowing Spies was NOT the man to fill any void at No.8
So I dunno who devised the cunning plan to come up with that strange disease that debilitated Spies out the already IRB sanctioned WC squad .. but Spies got pulled and a BETTER replacement in Bismark took his place… and Jake switched Roussouw the backup lock to No.8..
Voila – problemo solved simple as pudding and pie.
Now WHY can’t Meyer think of something like that?
25 Jun 2012, 21:19 pm
@Stompie till I die!!!!(phil72)-197:
You got ELSTADT sitting twiddling his thumbs.. the Next Bakkies and Juan Smith all rolled into one..
Then you got Kolisi / Coetsee / Stander
ALL capable to become the PROPER running athletic 8..
NOT poefta boytjie 50 cappie Spiesietjie… who ain’t done JACKSHIT at No.8 since Joe Van Niekerk hit the road… AFTER that you got Arno Botha.. and who else.. backing it all up.
Schalk is FINISHED.. so is Juan Smith AND Roussouw..
You HAVE to go with the next generation the OLD one is KLAAR>…
We gotta have an enforcer at 4 / 7
Alberts… Elstadt … Josh Strauss
at 6 Brussow gotta come back, with the likes of Coetsee and Kolisi backing him.. though Coetsee would be better at 8.. (and Kolisi perhaps too..)
So if ANYTHING
its
Coetsee at 8
Elstadt / Alberts 7
Brussow / Kolisi 6
for Now
Alberts / Elstadt can ALSO interchange at 4.. either of them can fulfill the No.4 hard man enforcer role.. NOT Etsebeth.. too young – too green – and don’t have the outright hard man enforcing mentality … probably Elstadt to 4 – and Alberts to 7.
25 Jun 2012, 21:22 pm
@louis schropnel(louis shrapnel)-199:
and if Vermeulen becomes fit enough soon enough then No.8 problem is immediately solved till Coetsee / Kolisi / Stander / Botha are mature and hardened and experienced enough to step into the breach after that.
25 Jun 2012, 21:23 pm
Most people here seem to have forgotten how Spies entered the Bok team under Jake. He tried him at 6, and Spies reckoned that was his best position, then at 7 and finally at 8, where Spies felt that he could be the worlds best. The problem is that Spies doesn’t really have any skills specific to any of those positions other than being a big and fast specimen when in space. The fact that he didn’t know where he belonged is, for me, evidence that the man has no real understanding or belief in whether he has the skills required for those positions, especially at 8.
25 Jun 2012, 21:23 pm
@louis schropnel(louis shrapnel)-187:
> Spies is the problem.. he has been the problem for the past 50 tests already.. but dumb myopic moronic microorganisms such as these simply still cannot see it..
He’s the rugby equivalent of Andrew Hudson, can’t do less yet stays in the team
25 Jun 2012, 21:44 pm
If there’s any position that Spies could play in the modern game, it’s probably 12. Unfortunately his distribution and offload skills are non existent.
25 Jun 2012, 21:48 pm
@David(David)-203:
> If there’s any position that Spies could play in the modern game….
It’s Team Fitness Coach?
That’s all this spier apie’s good for
The Bulls could do a lot worse than play Arno at no 8 for the rest of the season
25 Jun 2012, 22:14 pm
@victoriabok(victoriabok)-202: The Andrew Hudson is an interesting metaphor, but I actually saw Hudson hold an innings together often, and score more than a few 100′s. So not quite apt.
25 Jun 2012, 22:16 pm
Hudders had one of the most glorious cover drives in cricket.
25 Jun 2012, 22:18 pm
@SodaJoe(SodaJoe)-205:
For a while he only scored very few runs, yet held his spot, unlike the Aussies whol dropped good players like Waugh if they didn’t perform
25 Jun 2012, 22:25 pm
hudders started his career with a 150 against the Windies during the days when they still had a decent pace attack. Used to be a gutsy player, but he was never the same after Shane Warne verbally abused him.
Nowadays he looks a bit like Prince Charles, only younger and slightly uglier.
25 Jun 2012, 22:34 pm
Look I reckon I’m being a bit harsh on Spies
He HAS upped his game the last 3 tests .. and his line out work has actually been pretty good.. in fact occasionally he’s been the only safe option to throw to in the line out because he usually gets his line out ball spot on.. and he manages to steal one or two opposition balls also.
BUT his ball breaking runs amount to little.. unless he is given clear light of day through the traffic he gets stopped in his tracks and don’t offload that often.. he goes to ground too easy.. unlike Vermeulen or Alberts or Danie Roussow..
though Vermeulen, Alberts and Josh Strauss are better ball carriers in the modern game than any one else we got.. apart from Bismark on the middle of the rampage in the trenches at times.
Coetsee like I already said is a hybrid of a good quick stepping hit the open side at a gallop from No.8 and a limited open side fetching flank.. I’d prefer to see him stick at 8 and be the player he is capable of in that discipline.
Kolisi is ALSO a good stepping No.8 except compared to Coetsee he offers MORE at the collision point.. he breaks THROUGH the gain line and don’t simply crash into it like Coetsee, Potgieter, Spies and Kankowski do who ALL go to ground way too easily.
Kolisi got more pound for pound upper body strength to take on the opposing ball carrier or tackler and dominate in the tackle.. something Brussow has got in abundance also.
Elstadt is simple pure dynamic aggression, an outright enforcer in other words.. no subtle ball skills or offload game or any silky slick maneuverability.., simple vokmavoort donner en bliksem krag.. which currently Boks are SORELY in need and short of..
SO bottom line
Vermeulen / Strauss / Coetsee / Botha
Alberts / Elstadt / Stander
Brussow / Kolisi / Minnie
those are the loosie picks I go for AHEAD of Spies, Potgieter and Kankowski.
25 Jun 2012, 22:44 pm
@louis schropnel(louis shrapnel)-209:
What about Schalk and Juan?
25 Jun 2012, 22:48 pm
@TheRugbyPost(TheRugbyPost)-210: I would not play them at all. Both injured continually. This is a hard game.
Juan was getting close to the end anyway.
Schalk gave everything and is quite crocked.
Both should play in Europe. As great Springboks.
25 Jun 2012, 22:50 pm
@louis schropnel(louis shrapnel)-209: Elstadt on the bench, as you say can cover 4 & 7.
I believe that a bench with versatlity is going to mandatory going forward.
25 Jun 2012, 22:50 pm
@Robzim(Robzim)-208: Classic Robbie.
Anyway gotta go.
See you through the window.
25 Jun 2012, 22:52 pm
@TheRugbyPost(TheRugbyPost)-210:
they are finito.
25 Jun 2012, 22:54 pm
@TheRugbyPost(TheRugbyPost)-210: they’re finished
both of them are done.. forget about them.. far too much attrition through those half bust up bones already so don’t even waste any more time considering them
Even McCaw is just about on his last legs.. only his wily head keeping him halfway in the fray where he performs better at 8 than open side these days and where its the young mans body that can take the hits.. the old timers days are numbered and almost completely done…
Alberts won’t last that long.. his heavy body is such that it needs immense reconditioning after every game
Already we are seeing wear and tare in youngsters like Etsebeth after only half a season
Elstadt, Alberts, Strauss the enforcer type No.7 / 4 option
Etsebeth only to 5 athletic tearaway loose playing lock or even to 7 or 8 at a push
Stander / Kolisi / Coetsee / Botha the fill in options behind Brussow who still has a role to play at open side due to his immense upper body strength.. like Bismark… Kolisi has that strength in his arms and torso also.. more so than Coetsee and Stander who are better traditional ball carriers in the open field scenario.
25 Jun 2012, 23:36 pm
Ag what a load of kak – get in vermeulen or kolisi if you want 80% win rate – play spies as an impact player – he’s been given his chance next.
25 Jun 2012, 23:42 pm
And he’s not the best 8 in SA let alone tge world – every single test playing nation has a better 8 -spies has been given chance after chance because of his physical attributes. Waldron that pie-eater is far better no 8, far better
25 Jun 2012, 23:50 pm
@cab(cab)-217:
I like the Irish no 8, mobile but not scared of the hard stuff
25 Jun 2012, 23:56 pm
VB
they got two better 8s, heaslip and ferris.
25 Jun 2012, 23:59 pm
Spies blessed with unbelievable genetic gifts, but its neither a bodybuilding contest nor an athletics meet – our coaches are besotted with size and while it means alot there is most definitely an equally if not more important quality – heart.
26 Jun 2012, 01:34 am
Spies played 50 games too many
26 Jun 2012, 02:08 am
Spies is a winger playing in the forwards, he just does not have the balls for the rough stuff. He again on Saturday stopped dead in his tracks to be tackled, you can hardly cross the gain line doing that.
26 Jun 2012, 02:53 am
@cab(cab)-219:
Heaslip is the one I was talking about
26 Jun 2012, 05:48 am
Spies is the most complete number 8 – but has failed to fiulfill his protential.
When he came onto the scene – he was the prototype 21st centruy loose forward. The speed of a winger, strength of a prop, the althletism of a centre.
He is a very heavily marked man. No doubting his X Factor. His lineout ability is a core strength as well.
26 Jun 2012, 06:03 am
@greatest13gerber(greatest13gerber)-224:
Protential, is that the ‘shakes’ he used to drink?
So he has everything but how much longer must we wait to actually see it in action? i tell you what, you can’t coach guts not matter how good you are or how long you try. Spies lacks that and will never have it, pity because he could have been the real deal…
26 Jun 2012, 09:00 am
“Spies is the most complete number 8 – but has failed to fiulfill his protential.”
So he has the potential to be good, but he is k@k. You are basing his potential on USN ads?
26 Jun 2012, 09:04 am
@greatest13gerber(greatest13gerber)-224:
Ag twak man.
Richie played 8 on Saturday.
Now that is how an 8 is supposed to play
26 Jun 2012, 09:05 am
@Slartibartfast(Slartibartfast)-225:
Ja.
Protential is definitely that drink milkshake thing.
26 Jun 2012, 09:09 am
@Robzim(Robzim)-208:
I remember it well, I tried to model my batting on Andrew Hudson’s style.
1992, in the West Indies, facing pacy fast bowlers like Patterson, Ambrose, Walsh and Benhamin. He was out there for nine hours, and became the first South African to score a century on debut. He ended up being yorked by Benjamin – only on the third day – for 163.
He followed up that great innings with a duck in the second innings.
That Test also saw one of the greatest South African batting collapses of all time – we only needed about 200 runs or so in the final innings to win, we were on 120 or so for two, and then we collapsed. Ambrose and Walsh were in fine form that day, I think we had something like five ducks.
26 Jun 2012, 09:09 am
i am going to save that one for posterity.
hehehe
i have heard pierre being described in many ways
but that is beeyootiful…
26 Jun 2012, 09:11 am
the power of protein…
26 Jun 2012, 09:24 am
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-229:
I remember that test well, a true classic.
Don’t forget Adrian Kuiper’s gutsy 34 off 168 balls in his only test. Very odd for him to score at such a low strike rate, but he weathered the fast bowling storm with Hudson. He also scored a duck in the second innings, though.
The overnight batsmen, Kepler Wessels and Peter Kirsten, were the only ones to score double figures in the second innings. Both scored good half centuries.
Interesting fact – the 13th man for that test match was Herschelle Gibbs.
26 Jun 2012, 09:24 am
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-229:
how did that work out for you?
26 Jun 2012, 09:32 am
@the artist formerly known as gunther(gunther)-233:
Not well.
Turns out the modern game didn’t need a defensive opener who only scores one or two runs per over…
26 Jun 2012, 09:35 am
Pierrre also has hooves for hands.
26 Jun 2012, 09:38 am
@willievz(willievz)-232:
I looked it up, it was actually off 195 balls! Extremely slow for him…
I remember his big hits in one day internationals.
Isolation was also cruel to him, he was already in his thirties by the time SA was allowed back into the game.
I’ll never forget him smacking McDermott all over the place at Centurion.
26 Jun 2012, 09:41 am
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-234:
I see Paul Adams is about to become the new Cobras coach.
Now that is funny.
26 Jun 2012, 09:45 am
@willievz(willievz)-232:
what is a 13th man?
26 Jun 2012, 09:45 am
All spies needs is to get his head out of his *** and grow a pair, he is way to gentle for a rugby player. He either looks scared of hurting others or himself.
26 Jun 2012, 09:45 am
@Slartibartfast(Slartibartfast)-222: i’ll assume you didn’t see Tac’s post on this one. Apparently Spies stops before being tackled and does NOT power through like other big, strong 8th men because he does not want to isolate himself from his teammates who have to secure the ruck he intends to for when he goes down. In essence this is an ingenius manouvre by peer in aide of ball retention & continuity.
these are the finer details heyneke has worked in with Spies that most here don’t appreciate
26 Jun 2012, 09:46 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-240:
Heyneke operates on a different plane, motherfucka
26 Jun 2012, 09:49 am
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-236: He batted 195 minutes but faced 168 balls. For some reason cricinfo puts the minutes column after the runs column
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63574.html
Yep, 3 sixes off McDermott in the last over of the innings, and the final one coming off the 7th ball of the final over after McD bowled a no ball (the Aussies thought the innings ended, only for McD to be smacked for another maximum). Hansie Cronje was sublime in that 1994 series. McD, though, still ended with figures of 10-3-0-46, despite Kuiper’s carnage:
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64450.html
I was too young at the time, but many people still talk about his hundred off 49 balls against Mike Gatting’s English Rebels.
26 Jun 2012, 09:49 am
@the artist formerly known as gunther(gunther)-238: The guy polishing the 12th man’s boots.
26 Jun 2012, 09:50 am
@rangerman(rangerman)-235: plus he sucks at controlling the ball with his feet at the back of a dominant scrum, case in point – the durban test!
26 Jun 2012, 09:50 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-240: You serious? This is the same dude who explained to us that Spies’s legs are like Usain Bolt’s – built for speed but not for powerful leg drives.
Same guy yes?
26 Jun 2012, 09:51 am
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-241: Soul Plane?
26 Jun 2012, 09:53 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged by Mad Eye Productions.(The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food)-245:We need Duane Vermeulen to come back as strong as ever!
26 Jun 2012, 09:53 am
@willievz(willievz)-242:
I was too young for that 1990 match as well. Darryl Cullinan said it was the finest one-day century he’s ever seen.
@rangerman(rangerman)-235:
Well, he is a Bull, after all…
@Transformation(Transformation)-246:
Coming soon in a directorial debut by Heyneke Meyer to a cinema near you, a schlock-horror entitled “Bulls on a Plane”…
Samuel L. Jackson: “I’ve had enough of these motherf*cking Bulls on this motherf*cking plane!”
26 Jun 2012, 09:54 am
@willievz(willievz)-243:
ahhh.
I thought it was some Graham Greene novel I hadn’t heard of.
26 Jun 2012, 09:56 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged by Mad Eye Productions.(The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food)-245: new excuse every week! heyneke know how to “press spies’ buttons” – whatever that means.
26 Jun 2012, 10:01 am
@Skeppie(Skeppie)-247: I am a huge Duane Vermeulen campaigner. The fact that the man has never played for the Boks is a national disgrace. The most important thing Duane brings to the party is consistency in his physicality and mongrel. Even in his ‘quieter’ games, he STILL manages to get through an incredible amount of work, unlike Princess Mirabelle who even is his BEST games does f o k k o l worth mentioning (except a bloody lineout take or 2).
Mirabelle has been fortunate not once, but twice with Duane picking up that injury last year, just as Divvy was about to select him, and now the same thing happened again.
26 Jun 2012, 10:03 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-250: I think I also have that gift: “knowing how to press Spies’s buttons”, cos when I sneeze in my lounge, he falls over his own feet on the flat screen.
26 Jun 2012, 10:04 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged by Mad Eye Productions.(The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food)-251:
We shall see.
I will be watching him.
26 Jun 2012, 10:07 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged by Mad Eye Productions.(The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food)-252: Spies did, however, say that he felt Meyer was the one coach capable of rousing him to an elevated level of performance. ‘With no disrespect intended to my current or previous coaches, Heyneke’s the best motivator of all,’ he said. ‘He knows just how to get the very best out of his players, especially me, given that he has worked with me from the time I was a teenager. He knows what buttons to press.
‘That’s why I was pleased when he got the Bok job because I knew he would help take my Test game to a new level. I’m looking forward to that. I believe he can make me the best player in my position in the game.’
Heyneke-f.ucking Meyer!
26 Jun 2012, 10:08 am
Ja transie agreed. Hooves for hands and ears for feet.
Not a good combo.
That said i agree with big will read is not all that. Good but no superstar.
Morne must phuckoff. The way ruan was swept aside for this apparently flawless goalkicker was pdvs most craven act and our backline phucked out from that moment.
If heyneke doesnt get rid of steyn i will turn against him.
Lambie elton and goose to fight it out though ruan could have been the best of the lot.
26 Jun 2012, 10:11 am
@the artist formerly known as gunther(gunther)-253: You Bulls blokes want THE Duane to fail, because that would somehow justify 50 games of Bok 8th man mediocrity and misery.
Ne?
26 Jun 2012, 10:11 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged by Mad Eye Productions.(The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food)-252: do you reckon juan de jongh & robert ebersohn also think meyer can help thake their Test game to a new level…i know Wynand does, 50 caps coming up for Meisiekind!
26 Jun 2012, 10:12 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-254: And how is that working out for him? He is still k@k, he now needs to hit the road, but Oom HM won’t drop him.
26 Jun 2012, 10:14 am
If spies needs his buttons pushed he must suka!
I would pick ashley j ahead of him any day of any week.
He sounds like he is willing to give heyneke a hummer ffs! Disgraceful sucking up.
26 Jun 2012, 10:17 am
Duane is a 7.
Too slow for 8.
Plus he is willem alberts prison beyatch.
26 Jun 2012, 10:19 am
@rangerman(rangerman)-260: It does not matter who they replace spies with, as long as he is replaced.
26 Jun 2012, 10:20 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged by Mad Eye Productions.(The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food)-256:
Paranoid?
He’s been hyped-up big time.
He had bettter be good is all I’m saying.
26 Jun 2012, 10:22 am
Good luck to Pierre explaining what he meant to Frans Ludeke…
26 Jun 2012, 10:22 am
I’d personally pick the loose trio from these 6:
Duane
Kolisi
Burger
Alberts
Brussouw
Josh
26 Jun 2012, 10:27 am
@RefuGSpot(garth)-264: Agree with those 6.
SA Rugby is supposed to be strong if there is no place for Marcell Coetzee or Elstadt in the 6 best loosies.
26 Jun 2012, 10:31 am
@rangerman(rangerman)-260: Duane is not as slow as what many of you would like to think. Alberts isn’t exactly Bolt either, and on that: we have Usain Bolt currently playing 8 for the Boks, and I’m dead keen to find out what his speed offers our cause.
In fact, it is rather good.
Duane is Alberts biyatch? Since when? Duane didn’t play in the Stormers loss to the Sharks this year – so his personal record against Alberts and the combined Sharks team isn’t shabby at all
I would leave Alberts at 7, play Duane at 8 and then Brussow/Burger or Coetzee depending, at 6. Add a Kolisi to that mix and the Boks are sorted.
26 Jun 2012, 10:31 am
@willievz(willievz)-265:
I’m just excited at potentially seeing Kolisi at 6, Burger at 7 and Vermeulen at 8 for the Stormers.
Talk about power!
26 Jun 2012, 10:35 am
Ag ok duane is better than spies you win.
Still a mercenary freestate gold digging money grubber though according to snoeky.
Personally i say geeeve heeeem a shaaaaans!
26 Jun 2012, 10:36 am
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-267: We should be patient with Schalla, he’s been under the knife a few times now and you just don’t return to top flight rugby at the click of a finger.
Personally I think his clock has run out with the Boks starting XV, but I will have him on my bench to cover 6/7/8.
26 Jun 2012, 10:36 am
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-267:
if they ever get into the team for the same match again…
26 Jun 2012, 10:38 am
@willievz(willievz)-269:
@ufo(ufo)-270:
Which is why I said “potentially”…I’m very concerned that Burger might not be coming back…
26 Jun 2012, 10:41 am
@rangerman(rangerman)-268: Give him a chance indeed. I’m sure that is all he wants as a player as well.
The fact is Spies has hogged the 8 position as if it were his birthright, and all talk about anyone being better than him is just that – talk, UNTIL someone else get’s a chance.
With Spies not exactly throwing his body on the line, he is never injured (and that’s wonderful for him of course), which means no other 8th man has EVER had the chance to step up and knock Spies straight off the pedestal so many coaches and fans spent years constructing for him.
Who is Snoeky? Duane is anything but a money grabber. If he was, he would have taken one of the many offers from overseas clubs he has received – huge offers, instead of sticking it out in SA in the HOPE that just ONE Bok coach will give him a chance.
26 Jun 2012, 10:41 am
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-271:
yeah me too… don’t care what his detractors say but we sure could’ve used some of his power and yster against the english… in all three games IMO… duane too…
26 Jun 2012, 10:43 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged by Mad Eye Productions.(The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food)-272:
Duane Vermeulen stated he left Free State for Western Province in order to follow Rassie Erasmus.
26 Jun 2012, 10:44 am
@rangerman(rangerman)-255: i accept people’s opinions will differ
@rangerman(rangerman)-255: no bra, we can’t turn against heyneke! we must allow the coach room to excel!
26 Jun 2012, 10:45 am
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-274:
ay carumba!
that’s not going well.
26 Jun 2012, 10:46 am
Ja lets see what duane can do.
26 Jun 2012, 10:47 am
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-274: Yup, Rassie brought him. Rassie hauled him to the Free State from Nelspruit as well, so he and Rassie have a history.
Those who say he is a money grabbing mercenary, as Rangerman says this ‘Snoeky’ implies – is talking utter trash. Who is Snoeky?
26 Jun 2012, 10:48 am
@toulon says(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-276:
Rassie knows how to press his buttons.
26 Jun 2012, 10:49 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged by Mad Eye Productions.(The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food)-278:
skopskiet, I assume.
26 Jun 2012, 10:49 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-275:
Messiah Meyer.
26 Jun 2012, 10:52 am
Snoeky is no one.
A no one to be precise.
Ja duanne is at home with the merc stormers team
26 Jun 2012, 10:53 am
@rangerman(rangerman)-282:
I think I lost your e-mail address, btw.
I’d be keen to try out some spearfishing.
26 Jun 2012, 10:54 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-275: @WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-281: The Messiah needs to loosen up a little. He is wound up tighter than the headband the Baby Boks captain has strapped over his noggin.
He should also stop expecting the more intelligent amongst us to blindly follow his cause without having a few thoughts of our own.
He isn’t in Kansas anymore.
26 Jun 2012, 10:58 am
@the artist formerly known as gunther(gunther)-279:
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged by Mad Eye Productions.(The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food)-284:
kansas..?..
a new club opened on the greenpoint strip?
26 Jun 2012, 11:01 am
@toulon says(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-285: Kansas = Pretoria (and quite possibly a club on the Greenpoint strip for all I know)
26 Jun 2012, 11:02 am
Snoeky is everyone from the W Cape
26 Jun 2012, 11:02 am
@toulon says(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-285:
What would the Messiah be doing there?
Strictly Danskraal for him.
26 Jun 2012, 11:02 am
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-283:
I have it
Can I come along.
26 Jun 2012, 11:03 am
you guys are funny
26 Jun 2012, 11:04 am
@Dawn(Dawn)-289:
Ask rangerman – I have no objections!
Can you free dive?
26 Jun 2012, 11:05 am
Lots of schadenfreude happiness in CapeCuntie land after the test.
Funny that the Cape based “heroes” were the most comfortable passengers for the Boks…
Steyn and Hougaard were farken useless but Etsebeth, Habana, JDV and Aplon were ineffective at best.
JDV was passenger no 1 after Potgieter while JPP and Coetsee were stars of the show again with Pienaar making a case as no 1 player at 9.
26 Jun 2012, 11:07 am
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-291:
Of course.
26 Jun 2012, 11:08 am
There goes the neighbourhood
26 Jun 2012, 11:13 am
Bakkies needs to be brought back for 4N, if only to play off the bench and school Etsebeth…
On Sat he had that same deer in headlights look that he had when playing the Sharks
26 Jun 2012, 11:13 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-292: Of course there is happiness. The S15 starts again
You were lucky the International season popped up when it did, as it saved you a good few weeks of shame. (Sharks/Lions result…..)
Now that international rugby is on the bench, tell us how the dynamite is going to go about restoring any hope of success in yet another disappointing Superugby campaign?
Yes, we are happy down here, how about you?
26 Jun 2012, 11:15 am
@Dawn(Dawn)-294: Good idea. Throw in Gurthro Steenkamp and any hooker in the country who can at least throw in accurately and our tight five will come alive.
26 Jun 2012, 11:16 am
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-291:
What’s the business with freedive?
All you do is jump in the water, tog?
26 Jun 2012, 11:17 am
@willievz(willievz)-265: why not
26 Jun 2012, 11:19 am
Go Lions… Impossible underdogs against the unparalleled might of the incredible, unbeatable Stormers…
Fans love an underdog and if ever there was one, its the Lions…
Against all odds… Stormers should actually thrash this coachless, demoralised team… Shouldn’t they?
Thats if they could score a few tries, of course…
26 Jun 2012, 11:22 am
Naaah
Stormers gonna lose
Anything to shut you up
26 Jun 2012, 11:22 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-300:
Let me guess – you sense a bubble about to go POP?
26 Jun 2012, 11:24 am
@rangerman(rangerman)-255: Eddie Jones said Ruan would become the next Larkham. The problem, however, was that Ruan did not want to play 10. He wanted to play 9.
He is (was?) his own worst enemy.
@RefuGSpot(garth)-299: I was amazed at Heyneke’s loosie selections, and how radically different it was from the 6 me and you favour. I am the first one to say that the national coach know more than anyone on this blog, but it made me do some introspection as to my own understanding as to what loosies are supposed to do on a field.
26 Jun 2012, 11:29 am
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-302: the one in Durban deflated at a rate hey…damp squib of DYNAMITE that never got off
26 Jun 2012, 11:30 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-304:
They must have bought their dynamite from the same Indian who sold Tacitus his can of whoopass.
26 Jun 2012, 11:31 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-295:
good idea
in principle.
26 Jun 2012, 11:32 am
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-305:
Well he will be out of business soon.
The ANC want to limit foreign ownership of ispaza shops.
26 Jun 2012, 11:32 am
What a great post earlier about Spies never getting injured. Self-preservation is Spies motto when it comes to rugby. He needs to preserve himself and continue to be the Bok 8 so he can carry on exploiting his fame advertising USN or his favorite restaurant or brand, preaching or any number of advertising ventures.
26 Jun 2012, 11:33 am
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-305:
26 Jun 2012, 11:37 am
Stormers are but overwhelming favourites and a home semi is theirs to lose… With probable opponents in Saders…
Should be a great match with much away team support…
Sharks will in all likelihood have to make the trek to Canberra… Short work there followed by a semi against the Chiefs…
Tall order but it is possible that the S15 final 2012 will be between the Saders and the Dynamite… Against all odds
26 Jun 2012, 11:38 am
@the artist formerly known as gunther(gunther)-307:
Patel is very careful that way.
He knows how to use fronting and middle men.
In fact Tacitus never dealt with him personally.
As far as he was concerned, he was buying the stuff from a well-spoken Afrikaans boy.
26 Jun 2012, 11:39 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-310:
26 Jun 2012, 11:40 am
Wptid bud get my addie from dawn and dawnie you are welcome.
You got wetsuits?
26 Jun 2012, 11:41 am
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-305: Why an Indian?
Is it that WPTID, amongst the other 5 or 6 nics he posts by, the “honourable moral guardian” has just betrayed his actual latent racism…
Gotta love the hypocrisy…
A Zille refugee all star
26 Jun 2012, 11:41 am
@rangerman(rangerman)-313:
Wetsuits?
It’s Durban, not Cape Town?
26 Jun 2012, 11:42 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-310: Just how many games is it that have to go the Sharks way before they can contemplate making the trek to Canberra?
Have to give it to you Horatio, pessimism is your biyatch.
26 Jun 2012, 11:43 am
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-17: People dont understand you need some one e to draw the opposition in.And with Spies and Alberts and a few others we make space for our back line.The All Blacks show everyone how to draw your man in .We forget that thats what Spies does .Because if he gets a break its a try. I always see three men on spies.Its the same with Football you need someone to make space .
26 Jun 2012, 11:44 am
@Spiesisworthless1(Spiesisworthless1)-308: this is the same mantra morne lives by, morne NEVER puts his shoulder into tackles, he extends his arms full on and tries to wrestle the player down by throwing his own weight on the ground which is why he spun like a top when digby ioane went past him in last year’s tri-nations…quade cooper uses the same technique!
when has morne ever been injured?
26 Jun 2012, 11:44 am
Them “Indians”…. No favourites of CapeCunties hey… As shown plainly by WPTID…
And definitely no favourites of the Shangaans… as demonstrated by Transie…
Amandiya…
26 Jun 2012, 11:45 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged by Mad Eye Productions.(The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food)-316:
26 Jun 2012, 11:45 am
@Spiesisworthless1(Spiesisworthless1)-308: If there is anyone worthless i suppose its just you and your comments.
26 Jun 2012, 11:46 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-314:
5 or 6 nics?
No latent racism, just making use of a stereotype…just like you do when you keep describing the Capetonians as “brokebacks”…
26 Jun 2012, 11:46 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged by Mad Eye Productions.(The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food)-316: Ag, whaddayou know, squealer?
The closest you probably got to rugby was on the couch in the hooker position but playing as a very loose forward…
26 Jun 2012, 11:48 am
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-322: Just making use of a stereotype….?
Isnt that what racists tend to do….
You silly fool… well done
26 Jun 2012, 11:49 am
@Dutchbushboy(jacquesknotter)-321: You’re utterly worthless and dumb too if you rate Spies c unt
26 Jun 2012, 11:50 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-324:
Trevor Noah uses stereotypes all the time for comedic effect…does that make him a racist?
26 Jun 2012, 11:52 am
Describing CapeCunties as brokebacks is less “making use of a stereotype” than extrapolating fact that Cape Town is the Proudly G.ay capital of Africa… Not that there’s anything wrong with this of course…
Describing Indians as devious merchants is rather racist more than making use of stereotype… See?
26 Jun 2012, 11:52 am
Has anyone actually scrutinized Spies? If so what are the findings?
26 Jun 2012, 11:52 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-323: And guess what? I was more effective on my couch at 8 than Spies has even been on the actual playing field. Go figure.
26 Jun 2012, 11:53 am
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-326: He is black, and “some of his best parents are black”…. Get that?
Now, are you Indian?
26 Jun 2012, 11:53 am
@Gumboots(Gumboots)-328: My conclusion is: he’s shite.
26 Jun 2012, 11:54 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged by Mad Eye Productions.(The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food)-329: I am sure you were more effective, my girlie… I would imagine you play to the ball profusely, which Spies tends not to do.
26 Jun 2012, 11:54 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-318: That’s what I said earlier. Spies is never injured, so no other player has EVER got the chance to show what they can do. Ditto for Morne.
And then you will have their ‘fans’ telling you that they have both been overplayed in the last few years………..
26 Jun 2012, 11:55 am
@Spiesisworthless1(Spiesisworthless1)-331:
Oh! I don’t often agree with people but I actually agree with you…
26 Jun 2012, 11:55 am
@Gumboots(Gumboots)-328: Unmitigated Sh.it. Clear now?
26 Jun 2012, 11:55 am
Mate after half an hour you will be cold.
Cold destroys breathhold quicker than the 2.5m greyshark that stalked me and my mate and taxed us on the weekend.
Luckily for you i have just bought a new suit and can lend you my old one!
26 Jun 2012, 11:56 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-332: I’m also far more accurate as a hooker than what your battleship is. All my throw ins – on target.
26 Jun 2012, 11:56 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged by Mad Eye Productions.(The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food)-337: Lol
26 Jun 2012, 11:57 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-330:
Oh, so he only uses stereotypes of black people now?
How embraboer for you.
26 Jun 2012, 11:57 am
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-335:
26 Jun 2012, 11:58 am
@rangerman(rangerman)-336:
No problem, I can bring my own as well.
26 Jun 2012, 11:58 am
Some indian Honeys in durbs i tells ya.
26 Jun 2012, 12:00 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-342:
Some Indian honeys in Cape Town as well!
26 Jun 2012, 12:01 pm
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-339: Caught out son… You can divert using Noah as much as you like, but try as much as you like, under that immense effort at enlightened liberalism is just another Amandiya “stereotyper”…
And you aint no Trevor Noah… He’s funny
26 Jun 2012, 12:01 pm
Why do we have so few Indians playing rugby! Is it the poor mentor/coaching support in Natal?
26 Jun 2012, 12:03 pm
Silly WikkitillIdie
Of course you need a wetsuit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You embraboer us!
26 Jun 2012, 12:03 pm
Over and out… for now.
Clearly not enough Indian Honeys in Cape Town to diminish “making use of stereotypes”…
26 Jun 2012, 12:03 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-344:
Well, you think what you want to, I don’t really value your opinion
(And I will quickly conceed that I’m not funny…)
26 Jun 2012, 12:05 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-347:
Cheers, you when-we. Do you still have your Rhodesian Front membership card?
26 Jun 2012, 12:06 pm
@Heavens Game(Heavens Game)-347:
Thank dog
Good riddance
26 Jun 2012, 12:07 pm
@Gumboots(Gumboots)-328:
well,
he’s not indian.
26 Jun 2012, 12:07 pm
@Dawn(Dawn)-350:
You are so polite! Something we all like about you…
26 Jun 2012, 12:09 pm
@rangerman(rangerman)-342:
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-343:
double
26 Jun 2012, 12:09 pm
@WP Till I Die(WP-Forever)-348: I value his opinion. In fact I rely on his opinions.
His opinion: Sharks to bum badger the Lions by 30.
The Facts: Me grabbing a welcome 10k, compliments of the Lions ignoring above blogger’s opinion.
26 Jun 2012, 12:11 pm
@toulon says(i_love_u_bakkiesbotha)-351:
Really! Dark hair, eyes, skin… hmmm you could be wrong…
26 Jun 2012, 12:14 pm
Pierma Spingh
26 Jun 2012, 12:18 pm
@Gumboots(Gumboots)-355: @Gumboots(Gumboots)-355: you got a problem with indian people?
26 Jun 2012, 12:19 pm
@Gumboots(Gumboots)-355:
ja, and sometimes he plays like a indian
26 Jun 2012, 12:21 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged by Mad Eye Productions.(The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food)-354:
Where you get all this zar!
26 Jun 2012, 12:29 pm
@Tacitus(Deucalion)-17: Imagine what they must have been shouting when Alberts was lined up to take the ball.
26 Jun 2012, 12:32 pm
@Dawn(Dawn)-359: I bet against any Super rugby result HG calls. He says Bulls, I put 2k on the Stormers. He says Sharks, I put 2k on the Lions
His opinion counts…….
26 Jun 2012, 12:32 pm
@Yetirat(Yetirat)-360: Get Spies?
26 Jun 2012, 12:33 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged by Mad Eye Productions.(The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food)-361:
26 Jun 2012, 12:45 pm
@Spiesisworthless1(Spiesisworthless1)-46: Really not worth commiting on Spies … Arrogant , and not worth mentioning with other world class no 8 which SA has produced
26 Jun 2012, 12:49 pm
@stew(stew)-364: Who would you have starting for the Boks at 8?
26 Jun 2012, 12:50 pm
@Skeppie(Skeppie)-365: Alberts
26 Jun 2012, 12:52 pm
Maybe Pierre is a victim of the expectations that were created about him
I said a few years ago I would not mind to play him at 14; obviously he will need to change his conditioning; his problem there is prolly to do with his inability to kick etc
Duane moet ophou seerkry maar met Kanko boer ons agteruit
26 Jun 2012, 12:56 pm
@Sheriff(Sheriff)-367: I think the thing that irritates people is how poor he is physically on the field when he has all the physical traits in terms of his build/strength/speed. If Richie Maccaw, Kieran Reid, Higganbotham etc can be so physical then Spies should top all of them as he has been blessed with more physical attributes…..It’s just his lack of mongrel
26 Jun 2012, 13:04 pm
@Sheriff(Sheriff)-367: nobody “CREATED the expectations” but HIM!
the last sentence is quite a laugh!
This entry was posted on Friday, May 15th, 2009
by Ryan Vrede
‘Who is the best No 8 in world rugby?’ I ask. I fully expect him to rattle off some boring bullshit like: ‘That’s tough. Ryan Kankowski is an unbelievable player, and that bloke from Wales, whatshisname? Powell? Ja, Andy Powell, that boy can play a bit. And the Irishman, Jamie Heaslip, he’s coming through nicely. Oh ja, and Rodney So’oialo …’
Instead, I’m met with a thoughtful gaze before the most unexpected response. ‘That player is still in the making. It’s me.’
‘Wait a minute, you’re breaking protocol here,’ I say. ‘You’re supposed to sing the praises of the first half-decent players who spring to mind. So, I’ll ask again for fear of misquoting you: who is the best No 8 in world rugby?’
‘Look, I’m not going to make excuses for having confidence in my ability,’ Spies fires back. ‘If you look at the guys out there, not much separates them. I’d like to think I have that extra bit that sets me apart. I know it’ll be perceived as arrogance, like: “Listen to this guy talking himself up. He needs to learn his place.” That’s the way we are as humans isn’t it? We’re encouraged to aspire to be the greatest, then shot down when we do. But it’s not arrogance. I know my limitations and strengths and I’d like to believe that I can be the best in the world.’
I’m incredulous by now, stunned at what I’m hearing, but completely overjoyed to be listening to a player spitting unbridled truths.
‘I know I have a long way to go,’ he says. ‘But I want to get to the point where coaches, players and the public think about the best No 8s in the game and my name is at the forefront of their minds.’
26 Jun 2012, 13:14 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-369:
I think we need to go back to the days of a certain Mr Jake White and how we coached players: structure, structure
Then PdV comes but Matfied and Du Preez force the Bulls ‘ style onto the Bok game plan
And with Heyneke we will see a continuation of structures
If PdV’s approach of total rugby was implemented and embraced, more space would have been created and Pierre would have excelled in that sort of environment
SA’s approach of trying the breach the advantage line with forwards is archaic and flawed to the core; that role should be for the 12 and then offload to loose trio
One more thing: to breach like Wynand Olivier is not the way; you need to play into space and you’ll find that with opportunities will abound when support runners are both left and right
26 Jun 2012, 13:25 pm
@Sheriff(Sheriff)-370: just watch sonny bill williams!!!!
26 Jun 2012, 13:28 pm
@Transformation(Transformation)-371:
People who were born in SA but support New Zealand are not true South Africans.
My desire is for them to leave, this afternoon still if possible or at their earliest convenience
26 Jun 2012, 14:09 pm
Let’s proceed from the simple fact that Spies is mediocre. After 50 Tests, the evidence is plain for everyone to see, and this really ought not to be a controversial point any more. I literally don’t know anybody who still thinks that Spies is the best No 8 in SA (despite Tacitus’ laughably desperate attempt to convince us that Spies is threatening because the useless Poms apparently called his name a few times). The fact that he continues to be picked is due to a combination of conventional-wisdom laziness and shameless provincial favouritism – nothing more. What is far more interesting is the way Ryan Vrede opportunistically tries to gain extra credibility by means of his gratuitous and irrelevant side-swipe at Ricky Januarie – a player who, despite his (real or perceived) faults, single-handedly delivered something tangible and lasting to Bok rugby, namely a historic win in Dunedin. With this dishonest posing, Vrede reminds me of political analysts who routinely take a swipe at the DA so as to up-cred themselves before criticising the ANC.
26 Jun 2012, 14:11 pm
@pierre(pierre)-373: Plain for everyone to see…
But three Bok coaches have continued to select him?
You shouldn’t play 50 tests if you are ordinary.
26 Jun 2012, 14:22 pm
@willievz(willievz)-374: With respect, your argument is ridiculous. Are you saying that those three Bok coaches haven’t all made some ridiculous selection errors? It sounds like you’re saying that the fact that Spies is there proves that he deserves to be there.
26 Jun 2012, 14:24 pm
@pierre(pierre)-375:
That’s not my argument. I am just the messenger – don’t shoot.
26 Jun 2012, 14:30 pm
@pierre(pierre)-373: The one highlight and all of Ricky’s bullsh it is justified?
I recall Spies also single handedly moerring the English on Loftus a number of years back….. does that that justify him. No
Irrespective whether Spies belongs there or not I have to agree if three coaches believes in him there is more than meets the eye. Cannot be put down to provinsialism as all three of them cannot be, neither were they ‘true to the blue’
26 Jun 2012, 14:36 pm
Ryan
I’ve just seen the rant at Ricky January. Completely uncalled for.
Considering his background and the obstacles he faced, he has turned out to be a remarkable sportsman who gave his everything for SA.
I thought he was the best nr9 on the planet in 2005.
26 Jun 2012, 15:41 pm
@willievz(willievz)-378: Looks like we can agree on something. Look, Ricky’s legendary “uselesness” is just another example of conventional-wisdom laziness. The truth is that Ricky had spectacular highlights and also patches of underperformance in a long and varied career. Spies, on the other hand, has been uniformly mediocre – similarly to Ryan’s feeble attempts to be a journalist.
26 Jun 2012, 18:12 pm
@willievz(willievz)-378: Ricky was useless- there is no debate
26 Jun 2012, 20:39 pm
@bangkok-bok(bangkok-bok)-380: Certainly not in 2005.
Look, he probably played 20 test matches too many for SA, but so have plenty of Boks, including the likes of Spies, Monty, John Smit, etc.
Ricky was very good if not outstanding for 20 of that 47 tests at least.
26 Jun 2012, 20:56 pm
Ricky was a far better scrum half than FdP for a number of tests where the mongrel at the base of the scrum was needed.. and he was a far better scrum half to take into battle against New Zealand than FdP.. where Ricky’s record against NZ compared to FdP’s record against NZ speaks for itself.
White knew this that is why he often selected Januarie ahead of Du Preez when a physical mongrel performance was required rather than a tactical kicking one.
26 Jun 2012, 21:01 pm
@willievz(willievz)-381:
SARU would have lost their KFC sponsorship if they’ve dropped Ricky in the last two sesons
26 Jun 2012, 21:02 pm
@louis schropnel(louis shrapnel)-382:
Ricky was a good scrumhalf and he had the mongrel especially in tight games where he harassed his opposite number, that’s how we won the test at the House of Pain
But he would never be in the class on Fourie, Joost and Divan
26 Jun 2012, 21:22 pm
The Ricky discourse is interesting.
He had some very, very good games. People talk about his ability around the fringes, a very good box kick, and totally fearless.
He is also one of the most underrated “loose forwards” in history. If you ever watched him tracking the backline it was lovely to watch, and he was a devastating tackler in that environment, BOOM, big hitter, especially for his size.
But he could NOT pass both sides, and when he got really fat it was embarrassing.
26 Jun 2012, 21:28 pm
@SodaJoe(SodaJoe)-385:
At his best he would have eaten Hougaard up, he could pressurize and harass opposition 9′s like no-one else
He would never have given Hougie the ten minutes he needs for a box kick
26 Jun 2012, 21:56 pm
@victoriabok(victoriabok)-386: Frankie Hollywood really can’t kick, but we do rely so much on this bloody predictabl kicking game over all.
We need to do something different, soon.
I like Frankie – he’s terrific. But he is not playing his natural game.
26 Jun 2012, 22:06 pm
@SodaJoe(SodaJoe)-387:
Any scrummy must be able to kick to relieve pressure, they all can do it why can’t he?
26 Jun 2012, 22:11 pm
@victoriabok(victoriabok)-388:
i wou;d like to think he is spending some time working on his kicking with FDP…
26 Jun 2012, 22:14 pm
ricky is a bok who never gave anything less than 100%
ryan is a f u k for denigrating this little big man.
26 Jun 2012, 22:16 pm
@the artist formerly known as gunther(gunther)-389:
He should already be able to do it if he’s an international level scrumhalf, I think the prophalf Weepu can even kick
27 Jun 2012, 02:23 am
@Transformation(Transformation)-240:
Have your say
You must be logged in to post a comment.