Comments on: Cheetahs sign Sadie

By: Horing

Horing — Wed, 25 Jul 2012 06:06:15 +0000

Jumping from one province to the other because he wants more game time exposes a bit of his character. He wants to take the fast way to the top, not willing to fight for his place and prove his worth. This would have seriously damaged his image with Heineke, who values character more than talent.
But the strong attack, weak defence Cheetahs game plan might suite Sadies game more than that of the Bulls. His problem is the Boks play less like the Cheetahs and more like the Bulls. I think he will really have to make a big impression at the Cheetahs to even be considered for the Boks. He’s starting place at the Cheetahs is not guaranteed and I am sure the talented Cheetahs youngsters will put up a fight.

Chances are better of seeing Sadie in a Southern Kings jersey next year than a Bok jersey!

By: Slartibartfast

Slartibartfast — Tue, 24 Jul 2012 23:52:25 +0000

@willievz-39: Great discussions guys but...Willa, we have a problem! How many of those strong and able #12 do we have in SA? I can think of only one real good one and he only played a few games towards the back end of the season...

By: Slartibartfast

Slartibartfast — Tue, 24 Jul 2012 23:49:58 +0000

@wp_boytjie-43: Only talking I hear are from armchair critics having a go at the youngster. End of the day his future WILL be based on what happens on the field so you don't have to worry.

By: wp_boytjie

wp_boytjie — Tue, 24 Jul 2012 16:31:15 +0000

This guy needs to do his talking on the field. Lots of talk from a youngster is never healthy unless he justifies it.

Last year the Stormers had a few talented backline options , JJ Engelbrecht , Whitehead , but Sadie was the one who got the chances off the bench and the odd start. The two that didn’t get their chances have gone on to be more successful in their moves away. Stop the talk and start the walk Sadie

By: bokfan1

bokfan1 — Tue, 24 Jul 2012 14:40:54 +0000

I think we are all getting carried away (as SA rugby fans are wont to do).
Beginning of this year – most of SA didnt even know about Sadie
A few brilliant games for Stormers, everyone loves him
HM mentions him and says he could be a future Bok, SA goes crazy.
Some Muppits call for Sadie as Bok center vs England.
Massive pressure and spotlight on Sadie
Sadie moves to Bulls – WP fans crying
Sadie injures himself it rushed back to Bulls team, doesnt play well, injury niggles
JJ covers 13 very well in Sadie’s absence
Now SA fans are ridiculing Sadie and calling him a has-been and flash in the pan??!
Come on okes – just like he has had a fairly poor season, he can have a BRILLIANT season in the CC or next year’s S15! (And then SA fans will all go crazy about him again?)

Give the young guy a chance, he has awesome talent and HM is not often wrong about talent – think Matfield, Bakkies, Du Preez and Hougaard as a few examples.

By: puff

puff — Tue, 24 Jul 2012 12:56:53 +0000

Cheetahs need locks.
They should do their utmost to sign those youngsters Willemse and Botha from the Lions.
And as for Sarel Pretorius – come home ffsakes!

By: David

David — Tue, 24 Jul 2012 12:20:40 +0000

So he’s finding the culture difference in Pretoria difficult to adjust to and decided to move to the vibrant and exciting metropolis of Bloemfontein.

By: willievz

willievz — Tue, 24 Jul 2012 12:05:30 +0000

@thesaint-37: If your set piece ball is clean, a big 12 is likely to draw in another defender if he stays upright in the collision. Certainly at S15 level. Drawing in another defender is different than dominating the collision point per se. Of course, the effective strong 12s do both. I think JDV goes to ground too quickly, and often isolated from support too. He does get over the advantage line though, but not effective enough to ensure a quick clean ruck ball on the next phase.

By: stormer in a teacup

stormer in a teacup — Tue, 24 Jul 2012 12:03:06 +0000

His second step backwards in as many seasons.

By: thesaint

thesaint — Tue, 24 Jul 2012 11:57:04 +0000

@willievz-34: Your whole comment is based on the assumption that the opposition 12 or 10 will be unable to handle a big 12. I personally tend to prefer a more skilled 12, like Aaron Mauger for instance, or even Nonu, deceptive feet and a wicked pass gets your team over the advantage line and the tryline more often than just bashing it up. With the state of fetching these days, a bashing no. 12 is also more vulnerable, as he can more easily lose the ball in contact or on the ground, seeing as we are talking about 1st phase ball, and he will not always have forwards cleaning out effectively...

By: willievz

willievz — Tue, 24 Jul 2012 11:30:41 +0000

@TooMuchRugby-35: Sure. Bear in mind, I was arguing their alignment from a set piece position, and assumed the 12 will collide with the defense.

By: TooMuchRugby

TooMuchRugby — Tue, 24 Jul 2012 11:29:11 +0000

@willievz-34: Maybe the answer is to have JDJ and JDV switch positions on attack occasionally, enabling them to play both scenarios you sketched and keep the opponents guessing.

By: willievz

willievz — Tue, 24 Jul 2012 11:19:48 +0000

@Feline-33: Yes.

But I believe you need to consider the type of backline players in a team when deciding on the appropriate type of 12.

Let me explain. The difference between the two types of 12s you mentioned is as follows:

The strong carrying 12 can stay upright in contact for a bit longer. This can potentially suck in an additional defender around the fringes, which can create an overlap on offense. So with the recycle, you want speed in your outside backs to take advantage of the defensive mismatch. The Cheetahs have this (Ebersohn).

The quick-feeted 12 can attack the weaker shoulder of the immediate defender more frequently than a carrying 12, but to get over the advantage line effectively he needs to go to ground earlier. This type of 12 will not force an additional defender to enter the collision – hence no overap will be created – but this type of attack forces the defensive line to take a quick step backwards to ensure they are behind the last feet. This can allow a strong 13 to attack a retreating backline on the next phase ball.

This is partly why I would switch JDJ and JDV at the Stormers. JDV does fit into the strong carrying mould, but he goes to ground too easily to be effective at 12.

By: Feline

Feline — Tue, 24 Jul 2012 10:59:26 +0000

@willievz-32: I see the point about a strong no 12, but I think a no 12 can get across the advantage line on of two ways, either by force or by quick feet. In Ebersohn you have the original hot stepper, with ofloading and distribution skills to boot, hence he will also fulfill the criteria of getting through the half gap and having Sadie run off him. So I do not think that should be a huge issue. Alternatively of course there is always the option of starting Sadie on the wing, with Snyman/Ebersohn the centres...

By: willievz

willievz — Tue, 24 Jul 2012 10:28:23 +0000

I don’t know what to make of this signing, but I don’t think he is necessary entitled to game time at the Cheetahs.

The proposed Ebersohn 12 Sadie 13 combination is not one I will go with personally.

I believe the Cheetahs are in need of a strong ball carrying 12 that can get them over the advantage line and set up quick second phase ball to allow more space for the dangerous men like Ebersohn and Le Roux.

Sadie will certainly strengthen the match-22, though.

By: RefuGSpot

RefuGSpot — Tue, 24 Jul 2012 10:27:30 +0000

@kingcorn-28: That's an awesome backline, although I am not convinced of Benjamin's quality.

By: Tacitus

Tacitus — Tue, 24 Jul 2012 10:14:24 +0000

Best move for all concerned.

By: Jeraldjay

Jeraldjay — Tue, 24 Jul 2012 10:07:55 +0000

Great move for Sadie. Bloem women are also hotter and Pretoria women are still stuck in the perm era.
Piet Van Zyl, Goosen, ?*?, Ebersohn, Sadie, Le Roux and Daniller.

Not to bad at all.

By: kingcorn

kingcorn — Tue, 24 Jul 2012 10:04:37 +0000

Great coup for the cheetahs to get some gifted players back. There back line will be really hard to handle next year. Perhaps this is the best move for Sadie. Stormers won’t need him for the next two years at least and they still have JP Du Plesis which I rate higher than Sadie. Also, the bulls have young Serfontein who will soon replace Olivier. Best go where you are needed.

Possible Cheetah Backline

9 Sarel Pretorius
10 Goosen
11 Wille Le Roux
12 Ebersohn
13 Sadie
14 Benjamin
15 Daniller

By: the artist formerly known as gunther

the artist formerly known as gunther — Tue, 24 Jul 2012 09:53:16 +0000

@ufo-26: the bulls have no inhibitions. we are very broadminded.