Defence bedrock of future success
22 Aug 2012
RYAN VREDE writes the Springboks’ defensive excellence against Argentina is a greater cause for optimism than their failure to score a bonus point is cause for concern.
Personally I don’t understand the near-hysteria around the Springboks’ inability to secure five points at Newlands on Saturday. I would have deeper concerns if the Springboks had looked completely impotent and not got themselves in scoring positions.
But they did, and how they got themselves there – largely through a kick-chase method – doesn’t vex me either. It is a method that has worked for South Africa’s most successful Super Rugby franchises of recent years, the Bulls and (more recently) the Stormers. My position has always been that when in those positions there needs to be composure, invention and precision about the attacking play.
Just because the Springboks’ attacking play lacked those qualities in the final quarter shouldn’t be seen as a precursor to chronic attacking struggles, which was terminal to the Stormers’ semi-final effort against the Sharks. Meyer’s limited time with his squad was reflected in their lack of attacking synergy. This will improve with time and the addition of personnel who have been injured. Indeed a defining characteristic of Meyer’s championship-winning Bulls sides was their try-scoring ability. This should stir confidence.
I was always more keen to see how they defended, especially against an Argentinean pack that was renowned for their ability to set a good attacking platform for their backs. To blunt them in the manner they did was inspiring. Attitude, power, work rate and accuracy are the cornerstones of defensive success and the Springboks ticked all those boxes, repelling the Pumas with an immense effort from the collective. Flyhalf Juan Martin Hernandez commanded much attention from the media prior to the Test, but he was largely rendered a non-factor.
Springbok defence coach John McFarland lauded that defensive effort, attributing the impotency of Hernandez and co to their work in this facet of play. ‘I think their backs were dangerous. They moved the ball well and got the odd bit of momentum. But we scrambled well, got into position and got our line set and moving forward at them again,’ he said.
‘I think they put us under pressure but we were well prepared for them and managed to dominate them in the collisions. Certainly they did cause us a few problems with their high ball game but I thought our back three dealt exceptionally well with that.’
Their ability to stifle the Pumas’ challenge extended to their defence of the rolling maul, their success here built on excellent competing from Andries Bekker. ‘It is a strength in their game. We don’t want to give them opportunities to build momentum. If your lineout competing is functioning well they shouldn’t be able to get that go-forward,’ McFarland said when asked about this in Mendoza on Wednesday.
McFarland said the Pumas would pose a greater attacking threat on Saturday and also praised advances they have made in other areas of their attacking play. ‘Every game is a different challenge. Here they will be passionate and try and execute what they’ve been doing over the past two or three weeks. I think Argentina are playing very different rugby to what they have in the past. Certainly they are prepared to use their backs more, attack a little wider and get to the edge of the field. But to me their biggest improvement has been in their counter-attack. In the past they would just launch high balls in return, now they’re prepared to give the ball a bit of air. It’s up to us to nullify their strengths and impose ours on them.’
The best sides in the game have achieved a balance between punishing defence and dynamic attack (the former often facilitating the latter). The Springboks don’t have that balance yet and they cannot cling to mitigating factors for this for too long. But the attacking problems they have are relatively easily addressed. We should be hoping they build on their defensive solidarity and the discipline that accompanied that. It will be the foundation for any future success.
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202 Comments
22 Aug 2012, 11:37 am
Keo doesn’t agree with you.
22 Aug 2012, 11:56 am
This is almost exactly what I said yesterday.
@PissAnt-1:
Keo was high when he wrote that.
No offense, but virtually no one but you thought it made any sense. But just because you are a fan of what Harry Viljoen tried to introduce, you latched onto that single sentence about Harry’s approach being a “missed opportunity for SA rugby” and immediately claimed it to be the best article Keo had ever written.
Sorry Pissant, it wasn’t.
I’m also not having a go at Keo, as he wrote a very good piece just the day before. I just think that that particular wishy washy attempt was meaningless drivel.
22 Aug 2012, 11:56 am
I’m sorry, kick and chase is the worst strategy as it relies on the opposition messing up, it’s a high risk strategy that allows a good back three to destroy you if they gather the ball well or if the kick/chase is ****. Suprise suprise, the ABs and Woblies have some ofthe best FBs and wings in the bizz!!!!
So yes, the kick chase approach is pure amature rugby, it confirms what we all know about the current bok backline coach as well as the one before him, they are both not worth stiching on their blazer!
22 Aug 2012, 12:09 pm
Wow Ryan! How can you measure yourself defensively against Argentina?
It’s like making runs against Zimbabwe and playing Aus next. It’s not a proper yardstick!
Kick and chase strategy against Argentina might work but won’t against Aus and NZ. Dagg and co will make you pay for that! Boring Bok team is all that can be said!
22 Aug 2012, 12:13 pm
Ryan,
How much synergy, in both attack and defense, did you think the Argies had on Saturday?
How many times have those players played together as a 15-man unit?
The Boks are uncertain what to do with ball in hand. That is the real issue.
22 Aug 2012, 12:14 pm
The irony is that the Boks can be very threatening with ball in hand because the opposition does not expect them to keep the ball in hand…
22 Aug 2012, 12:21 pm
@willievz-5: Boks defense did look good against an average tem, but looked clueless on attack. When Pienaar was at 9, things looked better because his passing is more accurate than Hougards. For me, the problem still lies with having an inadequate 10. M Steyn is not, and imo has never been international standard. Now he has a good day with the boot and some people are singing his paises. Admittidly he is good at kicking for poles and touch, but that’s it. If he was NZ or Aus, he would not come close to their national set up, I don’t eve think he would play s15 there.
22 Aug 2012, 12:21 pm
@willievz-5: for the very same reason you mention about the Argies, we had new Bok combinations all over the field. That uncertainty with ball in handd will go after a few games. We have to get the structures to attack off right first and without Bizzie there on Saturday it was difficult. Marcel Coetzee is only effective when defences are not organized and Bizzie makes that possible with quick recycling and turnover ball. We have a saying we use with the kids we teach that ” turnover ball is try ball”.
22 Aug 2012, 12:24 pm
@bananaboy-8: Why can NZ score tries off first phase, and SA can never do it?
22 Aug 2012, 12:25 pm
What really struck me on Saturday was when Ruan Pienaar took that line out ball at the back and ran through and there was not a single player in support of him. My feeling is that if that was the AB’s or the Ozzies the chances are there would have been at least 1 player in support to carry on the move. I bemoan our lack of support runners sometimes, its as though our players are not taught to be always looking to provide support to the ball runner.
22 Aug 2012, 12:26 pm
Effort at the breakdown needs a lot of work as well.
Against the Blacks we’ll get slaughtered with their very aggressive counter rucking.
Also, kick up and unders to Cory Jane and Isreal Dagg and we’ll be in for a long night.
22 Aug 2012, 12:27 pm
@richardmarais-9: look at my comment at 10. They run lines of support at all times even if they don’t get the ball they just overrun the breakdown point and prevent the defence from entering the ruck. It means they always have options to pass to a player who is free, we don’t seem to do that.
22 Aug 2012, 12:30 pm
@bananaboy-10: Amen.
It’s a twofold problem – players running away from support, and support slow to react.
The reason? The players do not always know what to do with the ball and / or off the ball, and do not communicate effectively.
22 Aug 2012, 12:33 pm
@bananaboy-12: Afgree, I think our players can be lazy and do not run enough support lines, even as a dummy runner. FS was surprisingly quiet on the weekend, maybe they are working on his conditioning and he was tired.
22 Aug 2012, 12:33 pm
@Tacitus-2:
Nope.
You miss the point.
It is not about Harry Viljoen, I thought he was piss-poor actually. Neither is it about PDV.
It is about the conservative approach and mindset within the South African game.
I was busy going through archive footage a week ago preparing for something and watched some provincial games and tests from the 70′s and 80′s. What was evident is the freedom in which we as South Africans used to play the game – ironically enough it was also at the time where (its believed) we ruled the rugby world.
Even the apparent 10-man Naas Botha game back then was anything but 10-man rugby…
Yes the game has changed, laws are slightly different, everything is analysed etc etc etc. But I am not referring to game plans or strategies, I am referring to the mindset of the players at the time…
Even chatting to players of the time like the Du Plessis brothers, Danie Gerber, Pienaar etc there are mentions of how they viewed the game.
Tackling (defence) is as much part of rugby as passing and a sidestep, as is kicking (tactically, kick-and-chase etc). These are not new concepts. It is also not the first time it is used in rugby as strategies or game plans (just ask Naas, Blair, De Wet Ras etc).
The key is the balance in which it is approached and used. Rugby is a game of structure, mixed with expression and flair.
It is not a case of South African not producing the Gerber’s, Burgers, Du Plessis’, Mordts etc – we have them, perhaps even better, faster and stronger versions of them. But our approach to the game today, and since re-admission has been one where go into any game with the view of ‘not to lose’.
I prefer approaching games with the view to win them.
Quite different.
22 Aug 2012, 12:33 pm
@richardmarais-9:
pos t#12 answers your question and add to that the illegal obstruction and blocking they perform.
its one thing to stage a great decoy run and for your 10 or whoever the passer is to feign a pass to the decoy and an altogether other thing for that decoy runner to end up running into lines the oppositon defenders need to run on in orderto either make the effective tackle or ‘hold’ and shepherd the ball carrier towards the next tackler.
22 Aug 2012, 12:35 pm
in short
thay score off first phase because they farken cheat
22 Aug 2012, 12:39 pm
@PissAnt-15:
As far as Harry and PDV goes – they tried to shock this conservatism out of the players – we all know how that ended up.
22 Aug 2012, 12:44 pm
@bananaboy-10: Our finest support runner on Saturday was Strauss….and that about says it all.
22 Aug 2012, 12:45 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-16: Here is an example of exactlt what you are talking about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdr-W775hk4
I also don’t understand why refs let them get away with it, they have been doing it for years.
22 Aug 2012, 12:49 pm
@Tacitus-2: “the Springboks’ defensive excellence against Argentina is a greater cause for optimism than their failure to score a bonus point is cause for concern.”
ryan is talking bullshit and if you agree with him, so are you!
the boks defence has not been an issue, we defended well even at the world cup BUT we lost to aus even though we had 59% possession and moerse lot of territory! so forgive me for not seeing DEFENSE against Argentina as a bigger positive and cause for optimism than our poor, direction-less attack ostensibly manned by FORWARDS coach Johan van Graan!
at this rate the Boks will end up playing like the Stormers when the best scenario is to have the playing a balanced game like the Chiefs who were FOURTH best attacking team and FOURTH best defending team.
22 Aug 2012, 12:53 pm
@richardmarais-20:
yip, have seen the video thanks.
i really wish the irb will clean it refs panel up. with paddy gone (promoted sideways and we wonder why) there’s a window of opportunity for reform.
22 Aug 2012, 12:53 pm
@PissAnt-15:
OK, so back in the real world, how does one go about implementing this better approach?
We saw where Harry Viljoen’s attempt ended up.
In my view, the real visionary here is in fact the “execution over innovation” champion, Heyneke Meyer.
Because the only way to advance our style of play in the real South African rugby world, is to do so while still achieving victories during the transition. Else you won’t last long in the poisoned cauldron that surrounds the Bok team – I’m looking at you, Stephen Nel, Afkak M*hamed, Gavin Rich and co.
So here are the 3 steps to the ideal Bok future, in an achievable program:
1. Master the basics to perfection, allowing us to achieve a higher win ratio than any previous coach of recent times.
2. Build your squad depth while doing so, establishing a core of players who know the plan, know each other and know the coach.
3. Use the leverage of this success, and the luxury of this player depth, to gradually add more arrows to your quiver, until you are the complete team that everyone has been beggging for.
4. Then you will arrive at a place where you beat teams 92-3. 75-14 and start stacking up trophies while also scoring more tries than anyone else.
But it all starts with building a solid winning culture and a pattern that everyone in the team can play to.
22 Aug 2012, 12:57 pm
@Tacitus-23: Brilliant plan. That means we should be ranked No 1 in the world by, let’s say, 2028?
22 Aug 2012, 12:59 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-17: scratched record!
the Boks scored off 1st phase ball against the British & Irish Lions @ Loftus, Youtube Jpp’s 1st half try and see of you can spot BLOCKING or cheating there.
22 Aug 2012, 13:04 pm
@Tacitus-23:here’s one example.
“REAL WORLD” = CHIEFS
read and learn:
Smith puts it down to the Chiefs’ ability to link strong defence with strong attack better than any other team in Super Rugby.
“I think the most pleasing thing is the connection between the attack and defence,” Smith said.
“So if you look at the stats we’re fourth best attacking team on the ladder and fourth best defensive team on the ladder, and there’s no other team close to that.”
In terms of points conceded this season the top defensive team were the Stormers, but they were only the 12th best attacking team in terms of points scored. The best attacking team, the Hurricanes, were only the 10th best defensive team.
“We’ve always looked at the challenge as being able to develop both, and often when you focus on one the other drops off,” Smith said. “We’ve had that now and again this year where we’ve put extra focus on attack and the defence has dropped off or vice versa, but getting that growth in both units together is pretty important.”
Smith agreed defence was a huge factor at playoff time and that was how the All Blacks coaches had approached the World Cup last year.
“But you can’t do it to the cost of your attack and so making sure you’ve got a link between the two is critical.
“Part of that is due to mindset. You defend, defend and show you can absorb the pressure, but when your opportunity comes you’ve got to kill them on the back of that defence.
“You’ve got to strike and score and that’s what we’ve been able to do, so we’ve just got to keep developing that mindset.”
22 Aug 2012, 13:06 pm
@Transformation-26:
Well, your Kings should adopt that approach in the S15 next year. Then they can show the rest of our teams how its done.
22 Aug 2012, 13:07 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-24: Yep Tacitus is tacitly advocating a “vier jaar plan” for Meyer.
22 Aug 2012, 13:09 pm
@Tacitus-27: why do you think we have Matt Sexton and a former canterbury skills coach?
the kings are the only saffa super rugby team with a “skills” coach…to my knowledge
22 Aug 2012, 13:09 pm
@Transformation-28:
But look carefully at step 1 of the 4 year plan. That’s the difference.
High win ratio from the outset.
22 Aug 2012, 13:11 pm
Ai manne, with all due respect I think you have the probelm upside down. Pissant touches on it when he seems to bemoan the lack of freedom that players have to day. Well, I reckon it starts with the coach and most great teams don’t have a lot of freedom. My guess is that its very unlikely that Alex Ferguson, that Merino oke in Spain or wherever or even Moaning Henry toss their players the ball and say “go and have some freedom”. Many, mnay stunning moves are planned and practiced in detail, over and over – even the AB blocking. They might start with the players or the coach but they are seldom spontaneous. Professional sport has changed that.
Whether Heineken has the acumen and support to equal the AB’s and Wobblies remains to be seen. He hasn’t made a bad start but certainly not a great start. It ain’t the players – they just need super coaching. Look back; most of SA’s coaching teams were poor, if not the head coach, certainly the support staff. Mallett and White (maybe Christie) were the closest to having a decent coaching team.
22 Aug 2012, 13:16 pm
@Tacitus-23:
The real world?
I have said it before and will say it again.
Meyer is on a hiding to nothing (as is any Bok coach really).
In 4 tests Meyer has had one week with this team outside of the week leading up to a test.
Following this, he will get 2 more inbetween travelling to Argentina, Oz and NZ. The most of his 6 or 7 weeks he spends with his players he will juggle between team selections, injuries, game plans, media responsibilities and so on.
He will then get his players back 2 weeks before they play their first test in Europe.
For Meyer to do what you suggest, on the back of a ridiculously long Super Rugby season, losing players to Currie Cup straight after the 4 Nations (because they are contracted to unions), having zero input on their conditioning pre-and in-season is not just unlikely – it is impossible.
Of players he selected, or was said to select in his starting XV from day one you have 6 players injured, a couple more carrying niggles – that is almost 40% of the team.
And understand what I am saying here. This is not criticism against Meyer, there is arguably none better to do what you suggest, but unless (until) his core team is centrally contracted by SA Rugby and not unions, and/or unions/franchises work together with the national coaching team as we often see in NZ, what you suggest is far removed from the ‘real world’.
There is a reason Viljoen and PDV failed, and even though his (Meyer’s) attempts at achieving the same thing will be vastly different than telling his team not to kick for 70 minutes, the reasons he will fail to achieve this will be no different.
22 Aug 2012, 13:18 pm
Cobus has always spoken a lot of sense imo. Here he talks about 1st pahse ….
http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3551_8009432,00.html
22 Aug 2012, 13:22 pm
@Transformation-25:
Check the try against Pumas last game, forgot the try scorer but it was from a maul, bok detached from maul with the ball but had another bok player in front of him….truck and trailor. The player in front took out defrnder and try.
Bakkies is becoming a moaning plague on here.
22 Aug 2012, 13:23 pm
Springbok flyhalf Morne Steyn attributes his sudden return to form in the Green and Gold to one little thing – the two-week mental break he was given at the end of the Vodacom Super Rugby series.
Steyn, who won the man-of-the-match award for his near faultless display in the 27-6 win over Argentina on Saturday in Cape Town, bounced back after a disappointing season with the Bulls, and one where his Springbok credentials were openly questioned by several in the public.
But after four seasons of non-stop rugby, where Steyn has now played a mammoth 108 matches since 2009 – the biggest workload by any Bok player – it is understandable why a two-week mental break can make a significant difference.
Steyn showed that if he isn’t continually played into the ground, he is still a match-winner who South Africa can really not do without, especially without proper back-up at the moment.
And Steyn has showed his critics, even if they don’t want to acknowledge it, that he can play a varied game. Since the test series against England, he hardly finds himself in the pocket, making the mindshift to play a more attacking-minded game with the backing of Bok coach Heyneke Meyer.
22 Aug 2012, 13:25 pm
I guess my main issues with the “execution over innovation” approach are twofold:
1. The opposition knows exactly how we will play. The gameplan is too transparent for the opposition.
2. An element of stubbornness or “we know it all already”.
Variety is the spice of life, and in rugby, it is no different.
22 Aug 2012, 13:31 pm
@Hurricane-34: Bakkies breakdown is complete..
as evidenced the last 3 to 4 months
must be hard having your bed stacked so high to escape the tokoloshe, but then when he is in your every waking minute you cant escape him..
bakkies is a softcock, looking for excuses like most SA spporters
SA RUGBY IS K@K!!!
22 Aug 2012, 13:32 pm
@Tacitus-27: You are being sarcastic, but I for one can see huge benefit in what the Kings are ALREADY trying to do in terms of their blueprint.
They are pulling in some pretty astute rugby minds, and focusing on various facets as they pull in these rugby minds.
They will certainly NOT have their forwards coach doubling as an attack coach.
Of course they need the players to enforce their vision, but frankly, I wouldn’t half mind some of the rugby intelligence the Kings have at their disposal in the coaching dept down here in the Cape OR for that matter, in the national set up.
They won’t win the S15 next year, but if they stick to their guns, in a few seasons they will probably be more balanced than any other Saffa team, in terms of actual play.
Laugh if you want, just mark this post for future reference.
22 Aug 2012, 13:36 pm
SBW vs 43-year-old Botha
I descent boxer long past his prime vs a supreme athlete in his prime, this will indicate if SBW has any boxing skill. I just hope Botha does some conditioning work before the fight unlike all of SBWs other opponenents
22 Aug 2012, 13:48 pm
@Transformation-25:
you’re talking kak transie, because i just did.
there was no farking BLOCKING by anyone?… by who? by fdp who passed the ball to him? NOT TRUE
he ran a good line onto the the pass from fdp, at pace. and the ball came to fdp of the top of a lineout from matfield.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yztx_0biDhY
@Hurricane-34:
serioulsy
feel free to scroll on by
22 Aug 2012, 13:50 pm
There is nothing wrong with kick and chase. The fundemental issue is execution of it. It is useful tool, a very useful tool in gaining ground with out been bashed and beaten.
IE: your defense line gains immediate ground. Think of it like a wall that you are able to move forward. It is a high skill to have that produces great results. Kick in chase is not about catching the kick as well, that is simply bonus! .. and i think that is where most of the disaprovers have their thoughts, thats wrong! The fundemental use of it in to gain ground – end of story.
It is also very very useful in countering forward momentum from the opposition.
kill their momentum, you kill their play…basic logic for any sport.
Poor execution is the sole reason why people have grown to dislike it. Nobody complained when we made it a famous strategy and wipped the Ablacks 3-0.
The rugby governing body then tried to change the “game of rugby” to try and nullify our strategy. Neither is this the first time.
It all about execution:
- you cant let it fall in the 22
- you cant have all your forwards piled ontop of each other from a squashed scrum
and expect them to be up and forming a defense line like the players who are standing.
- has to be high, to allow defensive line and chasers to slow the play down.
- and the main issue the dude kicking has to have the precision and brains.
He has to know when to kick it and not to kick it to deep. Problem we have incounted many time is we try gain as much ground as possible, ie trying to reach the 22 when we should use it to grain ground up to “32″. That way it counters your poor kicking abilities in ben exactly precise.
- blal bla bla…
So yes it a very useful tool to have in your arsen shed, but when to use it and how it is executed is fundemental to its effectiveness.
Discussing Argentina, do we even need an article about it, is there any point? The result on Sat was expected and SHOULD be expected if we respect Springbok rugby history! The players love to mention and sounds like a cliche these days that they are harder on theselves than the public!- I dissagree with this cliche as we have seen events at times when this is truly not the case. It was always said in the build up we would focus on the forwards, as that was the only strength the pumas have that we can measure ourselves ,…if there was anything to measure against. They are 8th, there is a huge gap between 8th and crapy 3rd. Arg greats all left after the WC in France it any body paid attention.
So they have been building since and there are no standout players like that generation. So what does that tell you?
The competitiveness is not there as in being a threat. Sprinbok rugby and history should never allow this regardless of what pophol is coach and so we can demand expectations of them.
Missing the bonus point. It appears Meyer might have forgotten the thought and only realised at the 70th min(probably listened to the commentry then heard it! -lol)
the message was then sent out.
How many balls were stolen from Habanana….
Hopefully the ref will card players this time like the guy who tackled voomvoom in the air. Disgraceful stuff
22 Aug 2012, 13:53 pm
@poppa69-37:
why are you not on your side of the blog
fokkoff to the kiwi thread
(smiley face)
22 Aug 2012, 13:55 pm
@PissAnt-15: The single biggest obstacle for SA Rugby. Mindset and the absolute allegiance to the Bok playing brand.
22 Aug 2012, 13:55 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-42: am I offside? like the great Brian habana who scored 99% of his “intercept” tries in the same fashion?
the cheat!
22 Aug 2012, 13:57 pm
@Tacitus-23: Does that also mean waiting for that success period and a few last places?
22 Aug 2012, 14:03 pm
Sort out schools rugby and eventually this will filter into senior rugby.
22 Aug 2012, 14:10 pm
@poppa69-44:
yes, you are offside. didn’t you get the memo
i will only be commenting on cc rugby and games involving the boks. those are my threads and everything else is ‘the kiwi’ side. feel free to speak your mind there.
people are tired of hearing the truth so i dont want to be forced into a position where i have to tell it.
22 Aug 2012, 14:11 pm
@poppa69-44:
and we both know you just made that stat up, right there.
22 Aug 2012, 14:16 pm
@PissAnt-32: which BOK coach has ever had it any different?
22 Aug 2012, 14:18 pm
@Transformation-49:
Post-isolation? No-one.
22 Aug 2012, 14:22 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-40: you missed the point completely in your zealousness to accuse kiwis of cheating, can you please youtube the israel dagg 1st PHASE try over the weekend and point out the blocking in that move.
22 Aug 2012, 14:26 pm
@Transformation-51:
Don’t expect a reply anytime soon.
22 Aug 2012, 14:33 pm
@richardmarais-33: oh rich, ask grant10 how i was screaming for a 1st phase set piece from our “attacking” scrum in the argie 22 only to see either steyn or coetzee CRASHBALL into three argie defenfers and have our ball slowed down!
22 Aug 2012, 14:34 pm
The Boks don’t score enough tries….simple! They prefer “the bash em, smash em and take the 3 points approach. Rugby has changed, successful teams score tries. Problem with the Boks is that they don’t score enough. NZ beat us 60% of the time and we ask ourselves why? Check out rugby stats to confirm %. If you can’t score, head for the door!
22 Aug 2012, 14:35 pm
good grief transie, are you saying on the basis of ONE 1st phase try which (judging from the camera angle
) does not seem to comprise a great deal of blocking, this is evidence that the ab’s do not score a lot of 1st phase (and any phase) tries off illegal blocking / obstructing / forwards passes / holding defending players back / and so on ad nauseum..?…
22 Aug 2012, 14:36 pm
Stormers rugby the bedrock of future sucess!
The biggest problem is Morne Stain!!!!
Cant get his backline going!
Useless!
22 Aug 2012, 14:37 pm
@Tacitus-23: more real world observations and analysis…
cobus visagie”
The most outstanding observation from my point of view was the All Blacks’ ability to penetrate the Wallaby defence from first-phase moves, specifically from scrums. Strike moves have become a forgotten art in the modern game and like most things if you start to believe – and even if you coach players – that the first-phase play is just to set up the next phase, they will never believe they can utilise all the available space to get behind enemy lines. The overriding consideration when coaches plan moves these days are the numbers and running lines of support players that will be available to support the ball carrier at the first breakdown. The difference with the All Blacks is that they trust firstly the ball carrier to break the defensive line to go beyond the advantage line and that the player will be strong and intelligent enough to negotiate the defensive threats until his support arrives.
South Africa can learn a lot from this mind set, because I believe they have the same platform available from the scrum which can provide predictable right shoulders to launch multiple attacking options from the back of the scrum
currently our BOKS don’t do this, meyer, loubscher &
van graan are failing us.
“
22 Aug 2012, 14:38 pm
Man of the Match my ***!
But what do you expect from the stampstootbollie from the Bulls!
Having a forwards coach doubling as an Attack guru!
Bwahahahahaha!
22 Aug 2012, 14:39 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-55: no, but your assertion that they DO all the time is bullshit too, no?
22 Aug 2012, 14:39 pm
well i’ve got news for you walter cronkite….
22 Aug 2012, 14:40 pm
@Tacitus-23: more real world observations:
However in recent history Pierre Spies have become extremely predictable and utterly ineffectual with his breaks from the back and no enterprise has been shown from consecutive coaches to explore interplay options with his 9 or 12. I was hoping that this would be an area where Heyneke Meyer would inspire some change, but it has not been the case and unfortunately Keegan Daniel did not manage to impress either at number eight.
22 Aug 2012, 14:42 pm
@greegs-54: meyer said he wants to play winning rugby, so if we win by drop goals or penalties he could care less.
22 Aug 2012, 14:42 pm
Just look at Oz: Robbie Deans acts a Backline coach and nada happens to the Wallaby backs!
Defensive midfield; Barnes Faainga (mcCabe), Horne,
Thus kaka rugby!
What do you expect from a Provincial fowards coach?!
Wont ever see proper first-phase move from the Boks!
22 Aug 2012, 14:45 pm
@pompies2-43: And the fact that rugby has become professional whilst our administration of the game has remained amateur. Its no secret that when the game was still amateur a number of our players were treated as semi pro’s and that gave us a little edge on the playing field in my opinion and the confidence to play the way PA suggested the old players approached the game. Everyone else has now caught up as a result of the professional era in physicality and skills and more so have improved their administration except perhaps for France and England (other 6 nation teams have too low a player base). This is primarily why we cannot develop the huge player base we have to a dominant level and I agree that a change in mindset at junior rugby levels would have alleviated the problem a little in developing skills (awareness and peripheral vision skills etc) at an early stage but these skills can also be taught at senior level- otherwise demonstrated by Sheryl Calder with England rugby, Dutch Hockey etc.
22 Aug 2012, 14:46 pm
22 Aug 2012, 14:47 pm
Heyneke should bring Lance Sherrell back!
Sherrell will get that backline going
He did played for the Bulls!
22 Aug 2012, 14:47 pm
@Transformation-59:
its the exception that proves the rule, transie… the exception that proves the rule…
the fact they DO it once in blue moon is evidence that what they DO almost all of the time is score illegal tries, ja?
22 Aug 2012, 14:47 pm
@Transformation-57: Tell me something.
If van Graan is the attack coach and forwards coach, what does Ricardo Laubscher do?
22 Aug 2012, 14:47 pm
@Transformation-57: Eina. WillieVZ and I have been saying for a while that the importance of multi-phase is over-hyped.
And why does Cobus Visagie dis his Heyneke-ness like that. Geen respek
22 Aug 2012, 14:49 pm
@willievz-68: backline
22 Aug 2012, 14:49 pm
@willievz-68: As I understand, Johan van Graan is the forwards coach. Loubsher is the backs coach.
22 Aug 2012, 14:50 pm
@Transformation-62:
on the basis of your statement should one then infer that meyer is not and does not want to coach the boks to score tries, let alone 1st phase tries..?…
(how do i do the rolling eyes smiley? seriously)
22 Aug 2012, 14:50 pm
@cane-52:
no, i can come quickly if needs be
22 Aug 2012, 14:50 pm
@willievz-68:
To assist the backline with defence!
No tries were scored against Boks
Thus, 10/10 for Loupie
22 Aug 2012, 14:53 pm
@Transformation-70: @pompies2-71: Yes I know, but what does the backline coach do at current?
22 Aug 2012, 14:54 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-67:
Truth is you are an idiot.
Every thread on here you are complaining about refs and Kiwis cheating.
I have never seen someone as annoying as you. Its the truth. I cant recall anyone that moans about other teams but yet does not want to comment on his own teams offsides and obstruction at maul time.
It just does not happen.
Bakkies you are the joke of keo.
22 Aug 2012, 14:54 pm
@Transformation-70:
as in back of the line
22 Aug 2012, 14:56 pm
Defence been the bedrock of Bok rugby for years with +/- 55% win ratio. Whether that can be defined as sucess, depends
22 Aug 2012, 14:56 pm
@willievz-75: Ummm…….um…… um………Can’t you answer that? I think he is at all the training sessions, so he has to do something.
22 Aug 2012, 14:57 pm
@willievz-68:
He handles the press.
22 Aug 2012, 15:13 pm
@Hurricane-76:
i was specifically commenting on a question relating to why the boks do not score off 1st phase in the way the ab’s do. thus my response regarding ab illegality..OK…
that you are kiwi and transie is infatuated with you ‘style’ of play is no farken problem of mine, OK
i have opinions just like you,OK
all blacks are cheats so just get over it OK
but my point was not to highlight cheating by the ab’s but to explain to richardmarais why it is we do not score off 1st phase as much as the ab’s do, OK
but as i said earlier, feel free to scroll on by.
22 Aug 2012, 15:17 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-72: eish, nowhere has our coach mentioned skills, just skills.
Boks need to ‘toughen up’ – Meyer
August 22 2012 at 12:11pm
By Craig Lewis
Peter Heeger/Gallo Images
The Springboks need to mentally toughen up ahead of Saturdays Test against Argentina, says coach Heyneke Meyer.
The Springboks need to mentally “toughen up”. This was the strong message from coach Heyneke Meyer as the team prepare to face Argentina in their first-ever Test in Mendoza this Saturday.
Although the Pumas will only arrive in Mendoza tomorrow – a region famous for its wine production – the Boks have settled in since Monday, with their training taking place at the Chacras Rugby Club on the outskirts of the city, which lies not far from some of the snow-capped peaks of the Andes Mountains.
The Boks have been warmly received by the people of Mendoza, with more than 1000 locals turning up to watch their first training session, but Meyer temporarily put pleasantries aside as he looked ahead to Saturday’s all-important encounter.
“I’ve been repeating myself, but I want the players to be more mentally tough. Without disrespect to the previous coaches, we need to toughen up in that regard. It will be an honour for us to play here in Mendoza and we just need to step up wherever we play, but I really want the guys to be more mentally tough and perform at any time and place in the world. That’s what we’re concentrating on.”
Meyer repeated his mantra of “no excuses” when asked by a member of the travelling South African media about the expected difference of playing Argentina at home compared to last Saturday’s opening encounter in Cape Town.
“It’s my first away game for the Boks, so that in itself is a big challenge. We have three in a row now away from home. It’s always difficult playing away, but I really want to get mental toughness into the side.
“Argentina will be very passionate, particularly at home, where they’ve proven over the last few years that they are very difficult to beat. Especially playing here in Mendoza where they are taking the game to the people, it will be much more of a challenge for us. We weren’t all that happy with our performance last weekend and we know we are in for a massive game.”
With the Bok team announcement set to be made this evening (5.30pm SA time), a decision will need to be made on the availability of Bryan Habana and Andries Bekker, both of whom went over on their ankle last Saturday.
Meyer said that a new-look pack would need to continue fronting up one way or another.
“I’ve said we want to be a team that doesn’t make excuses but, to put things into perspective, if you look at last year’s World Cup starting front row, there’s only Jannie du Plessis available at the moment. Three locks have left or retired since then as well, and six loose-forwards are injured, so it’s a completely new pack. We’ve lost Pierre (Spies) and Bismarck (du Plessis) to injury, so it’s a very inexperienced pack going up against Argentina, who have always proven themselves to be a formidable unit up front.”
he says he doesn’t want to make excuses then he goes ahead and makes one
go Bokke!
22 Aug 2012, 15:19 pm
@willievz-75: he is doing what AC used to do for jake…
organise bibs and place cones on the field…work on the team’s alignment before every kick & chase.
22 Aug 2012, 15:30 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-81: “my point was not to highlight cheating by the ab’s but to explain to richardmarais why it is we do not score off 1st phase as much as the ab’s do”
“thay (sic) score off first phase because they farken cheat”
thet fact that the boks never seem to run any moves is not the reason for the dearth of 1st phase tries, ok
22 Aug 2012, 15:38 pm
Meyers biggest delusion is that he BELIEVES that SARU and the SA public will allow him to build a team over 4-8 years.
Forget it.
Jake survived by winning the 2004 3N and taking us from 6th to 1st in the world.
PDV survived because of the 2009 3N and the B&I Lions tour.
If Meyer wins NOTHING this year, or next year, he’s gone.
22 Aug 2012, 15:42 pm
@Transformation-82:
Yep, Meyer still has very good players at his dispposal.
In fact, besides for the team that PDV took over, it’s the best we’ve had since 92.
No excuses.
22 Aug 2012, 15:52 pm
@londonshark-85:
The mistake you’re making is seeing trophies as the only sign of success at test level.
If Meyer wins zero trophies, but wins 75% of his tests (I believe he will win 80%, by the way), he will never be fired.
If we end second in the Tri Nations for the next 4 years, but win 80% of our tests while doing so, Meyer will have achieved more than any coach to date.
Because that could mean that we are better than everyone except NZ, and that we could still beating NZ regularly in South Africa, just with smaller margins than they’re beating us when playing in NZ.
If we achieve a 50/50 win ratio with NZ over the next 4 years, that would be a magnificent achievement for Bok rugby. Even if we win zero trophies.
22 Aug 2012, 15:54 pm
@Transformation-82:
hehehe
talk about seeing what you want to see, transie
@Transformation-84:
“thet (sic) fact that the boks never seem to run any moves is not the reason for the dearth of 1st phase tries, ok ”
well, the fact that the boks never seem to run as many ‘kiwi’ moves is perhaps the reason for the dearth of 1st phase tries, ok
hehe
22 Aug 2012, 15:55 pm
@Tacitus-87:
In that case the Stormers were the top SA team in the S15, with a far superior win percentage than the Sharks.
22 Aug 2012, 15:58 pm
@David-89:
Note that I am referring to test rugby, which is a completely different universe to provincial rugby.
At test level, win ratios count. Nothing else, as far as I’m concerned. Because every test is an historical occassion. And our overal win ratio against the All Blacks is of far more concern to me than the number of World Cups each team has won.
22 Aug 2012, 15:59 pm
@David-89: touche’
22 Aug 2012, 16:00 pm
@Tacitus-87:
Hey hey, I agree. I’m just saying what the public think and how SARU work.
If we can win 75% of all games, I’ll be pretty dam happy. I think a Grand Slam is also needed though. Then he’ll be okay.
But he needs that win %, at the very least, else it’s curtains.
22 Aug 2012, 16:02 pm
@londonshark-92: He won’t get a Grand Slam this year as we are not playing Wales.
22 Aug 2012, 16:02 pm
@londonshark-92:
In order to win 75% of his games, without winning a Tri Nations trophy, it pretty much means that all Non Tri Nations games are won. If he reaches 80%, then that will almost definitely be the case.
22 Aug 2012, 16:02 pm
@Transformation-91:
enjoy your time in the sun, transie
next season the smileys will be few and far between
22 Aug 2012, 16:03 pm
@willievz-93:
Grandslam means nothing to me. Beating England, France, Ireland and Wales is a far greater achievement than beating the 4 Home Unions.
These trophies are meaningless. Win ratio is what counts.
22 Aug 2012, 16:03 pm
@Tacitus-90:
Luckily we still lead the ABs in terms of WC trophies proper, by 2 to 1. Contrary to what the Kiwis will tell you.
1987 does not count.
22 Aug 2012, 16:04 pm
@Tacitus-90:
True true, but if you are winning 80% of your games, there should be some silverware coming your way anyway.
Another thing, the introduction of the Argies might skew that win ratio. It’s the wins agains the other Top 4 nations that count (as you pointed out with NZL).
If we fail to beat NZL at home, that’s a train smash in my book.
22 Aug 2012, 16:05 pm
@willievz-97:
Iin that case its 2 to 0
22 Aug 2012, 16:05 pm
@Tacitus-96: Agree with that.
22 Aug 2012, 16:06 pm
@londonshark-98:
Not at the moment. Because they are a much better team than we are right now.
I think we will win 4 out of 6 in the Tri Nations this year, but lose to NZ twice.
22 Aug 2012, 16:08 pm
@Tacitus-96:
Tact, how can you say a Grand Slam means nothing? Our last one was when? How many times have we failed in the past 20 years?
If you win the Grand Slam, that all important win ratio goes up. So again, how can you say it doesn’t matter?
22 Aug 2012, 16:09 pm
@londonshark-102:
I’m saying that winning all 4 end of year games is what’s important. Whether that happens to be a grandslam or not is meaningless to me.
22 Aug 2012, 16:09 pm
@Tacitus-101:
I hear you, but I don’t believe they are that much better than us.
We should still beat them at home (always). Far worse Bok sides have done it.
22 Aug 2012, 16:11 pm
@Tacitus-103:
Oh okay, fair point.
22 Aug 2012, 16:12 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-99:
All the major powers played in 2011, therefore I am willing to give that one to them.
22 Aug 2012, 16:12 pm
@londonshark-85:
knowing the sa rugby public, the saru muppets and the dogs in politics even if meyer did win 75 to 80% of his tests in this time he would still be roasted and flayed for not winning any ‘trophies’.
22 Aug 2012, 16:16 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-107:
HM knew the playing field before he took the job.
His having an easy ride thus far compared to PDV.
22 Aug 2012, 16:17 pm
I see we’re only playing 12 tests this year, not 13.
Which means the target is 10 out of 12 for a magnificent first season in charge, and 9 out of 12 for a very, very good season (75%).
22 Aug 2012, 16:20 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-95: no problem, we are on a 10 year plan!!!
22 Aug 2012, 16:21 pm
@Tacitus-109: We have already drawn (in fact, almost lost) one test against England.
So to get 10 out of 12, we can only lose one more test.
22 Aug 2012, 16:22 pm
@willievz-111:
Exactly.
22 Aug 2012, 16:24 pm
@willievz-111:
Thats right Willie I posted sometime back that the draw is 0.5 but it’s considered a loss.
22 Aug 2012, 16:25 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-107: why should meyer’s experience of the poisoned chalice that is the bok coaching job be any different?
he won’t be mollycoddled!
you can moan all you want
22 Aug 2012, 16:28 pm
@Tacitus-109: Jeez, dont say such things. The fact that these win ratios are actually realistic for HM is verging on the hurtful to some “knowledgeable” supporters here on Keo
22 Aug 2012, 16:31 pm
@Jeraldjay-108:
i wouldn’t exactly say its an ‘easy’ compared to pdv
but ja sure, not making any excuses for him
just observations on the likely turn of events in store for him if he fails us
there’s nothing new in this, every bok coach has gone through the ‘baptism of fire’ by the sa public.
as spartan mother would tell their hoplite sons going off to battle: ‘either with your shield, or on it’
no inbetweens.
22 Aug 2012, 16:34 pm
@Tacitus-96:
Is the Grand Slam a trophy?
22 Aug 2012, 16:35 pm
@David-117:
Who knows? It’s some kind of unofficial achievement, at the very least.
22 Aug 2012, 16:35 pm
@Heavens Game-115: we will toast heyneke if he at least achieves these “realistic” win-ratios, that’s what most of us honest and humble BOK supporters wanted all along!
22 Aug 2012, 16:37 pm
@Transformation-110:
well you’ll beat the lons by six at that rate
@Transformation-114:
no, on the contrary i make no excuses at all
heyneke must fall on his sword if needs be.
my only regret is that they did not give him the job in 2007 despite my numerous letters of concern to oregan, the sports ministry and the coalition of christian churches at the time
22 Aug 2012, 16:37 pm
@Heavens Game-115: That’s a guesstimate. Tac reckons we’ll only lose 1 out of 4 between the boks and the anzacs?
22 Aug 2012, 16:38 pm
@Jeraldjay-108: Does he really? PDV definitely had political cover initially on the job as “First Black Bok Coach”. That is until he managed to pi.ssoff his political patrons too.
Meyer does not have this political cover at all. Only respect for Meyer’s obvious competence as a coach is enabling him to get buy in and support from Super Rugby coaches and others that PDV could only dream of.
This respect has been earned by Meyer’s merit… i.e. On “his won merit”.
22 Aug 2012, 16:40 pm
@Transformation-119: How will the likes of you “Toast” Meyer with your hands’ full pulling your wire about the latest darling Wayne Smith edict or gospel, huh?
Farken schweinhund
22 Aug 2012, 16:41 pm
@pompies2-121:
Nope. I already said I think we’ll win 4 out of 6 in the Tri Nations. Meaning a 75% win ratio for Heyneke’s first year in charge.
80% is the average he needs to get us to eventually.
22 Aug 2012, 16:42 pm
@Transformation-119:
ok, so you dont care how he does it then. if the wins are ugly penatly fests and short on tries, just as long as he wins… right.
good to know.
22 Aug 2012, 16:42 pm
@Heavens Game-123:
Good one! He does drink up anything a Kiwi coach happens to mumble as the holy gospel, doesn’t he.
22 Aug 2012, 16:43 pm
@Tacitus-118:
It’s an achievement we haven’t attained since 1955, and the ABs have done regularly.
I find your 4 point plan interesting as it’s based on the initial presumption that we’ll win around 75% of our games using a defensive approach, before developing further. It’s a bit like business plans on Excel spreadsheets that always show a profit.
22 Aug 2012, 16:45 pm
@pompies2-121: I reckon that we have as good a chance as ever of beating the Aussies home and away this year – especially with bete noir Pocock out of the picture. And the AB’s – obviously a win away is not realistic, but at home 50/50 chance at least depending on further injuries.
So 1 loss out of 4 is quite realistic if slightly optimistic.
22 Aug 2012, 16:45 pm
@David-127:
It’s infinitely more realistic than thinking we’ll win 75% of our games with a new, radically different expansive approach.
22 Aug 2012, 16:49 pm
@Heavens Game-123: hahahahahahaha
wena no Tacitus nidontsa ucingo ngoMeyer 
“i want the Boks to be tough” – cue Hg & Tac be dontsa ucingp
“execution over innovation” more wire pulling from Tac & Hg
22 Aug 2012, 16:51 pm
@David-127: Classic!!!!
22 Aug 2012, 16:51 pm
@Tacitus-124: Didn’t the Stormers have an 85% or 90% average in the Super 15 this year?
You guys weren’t quite so complimentary about a stat like that when it was them…
22 Aug 2012, 16:51 pm
@Tacitus-126: I find some of Wayne Smith’s articles interesting – but the farker definitely has a patronising tone and is not as objective as his fanboys want everyone to believe. That is, because M’Lud Wayne pronounces such and such to be true – does not mean it to be so… It is a pity these enraptured Smith disciples do not apply the same exacting content analysis to all his quoted nuances and consistencies, or lack of, as they have done to Meyer.
Especially since Meyer, hasn’t picked as many players as they thought he shouls have from a certain apparent “successful” Super Rugby team.
22 Aug 2012, 16:51 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-125: yes, it doesn’t mean i must shut up like the type of blind faith disciple Tac and yourself are!
i want the Boks to be greater than a 1 point squeaky win in Christchurch!
22 Aug 2012, 16:52 pm
transie would give wayne smith ‘microphone suck love’ if he asked him to.
he’s already had one ‘dreamy’ heart to heart conversation with him in pe apparently.
22 Aug 2012, 16:52 pm
@Heavens Game-128: I’d temper that optimism. I fear, the Boks, like the stormers will struggle to win the games coming from behind. That implies they need a solid, if not spectacular start.
Another big consideration should also be the side Heyneke chooses.
I’d be more inclined to say 2 from 4. Perhaps a losing bonus point and a 4-try bonus thrown in for good measure.
22 Aug 2012, 16:52 pm
@Heavens Game-122:
Your right, Meyer’s got a great track record thats why his respected. PDV only won the U/21 RWC.
It’s early in his tenure. By the end of September the journo’s and politians will start turning against him.
I was convinced Meyer was the perfect choice when he was chosen as Bok coach and I hope he succeeds but unfortunately his demise is inevitable based on what I’ve seen thus far.
22 Aug 2012, 16:53 pm
Nc nc nc nc
22 Aug 2012, 16:54 pm
@pompies2-136:
That’s exactly it.
The Boks will not be able to chase a lead with a defensive gameplan.
22 Aug 2012, 16:56 pm
@Tacitus-126: Wayne has, in the space of consecutive years won both the RWC and the super rugby title. I’d say he knows what he’s saying. Meanwhile we sit with Ricardo Loubscher.
22 Aug 2012, 16:57 pm
@Tacitus-126: just because you can’t see the wood for the trees doesn’t mean the rest of us are “homogeneous” in our thinking too!
@Heavens Game-133: funny thing is a KIWI is coaching the sharks to play POSITIVELY, straight from IRANZ
bwahla!
22 Aug 2012, 16:57 pm
@pompies2-136: Why do you fear that the Boks will be impotent like the Stormers in coming from behind? Never fear when Sharkies are near – and there is enough of the Black and White in the team to pull off some cavalier Laissez-faire if the circumstances warrant
22 Aug 2012, 16:57 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-135:
a never to be forgotten occasion which he enjoys dropping in conversation just about every opportunity he gets…pfffftt….
22 Aug 2012, 16:58 pm
@Jeraldjay-137: Why do you say that?
22 Aug 2012, 16:58 pm
@Tacitus-126: check his resume Tac. heyneke can only DREAM of a CV like that
22 Aug 2012, 16:59 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-143: i saw heyneke on saturday too bakkies, are you jealous?
22 Aug 2012, 17:00 pm
@Transformation-134:
we all want this, transie
we all want this
there is a mountain to climb though, and i do hope he is the man to get us to the top. because the top is where we belong.
22 Aug 2012, 17:00 pm
@Heavens Game-142: Not so sure. The Shark laden bok team might be able to build a lead then defend it, but i’m not sure they can chase a game.
22 Aug 2012, 17:02 pm
@Transformation-141: LOL for IRANZ. Didn’t see that one coming. Is PDV also not a IRANZ “graduate”?
22 Aug 2012, 17:02 pm
@Jeraldjay-137: Look, the demise of every Bok coach is inevitable… From WC winning coaches to world record sharing coaches – they all receive Dont Come Mondays, and not always for lack of performance… Some get it for criticisms of ticket prices
Meyer might get it for being too Christian or too organised… Who knows. But get it he will. Until then, I support the most competent, ethical and sane coach the Boks have had in years.
22 Aug 2012, 17:05 pm
@Transformation-130: Oh Dear… My comment must have hurt
A real case of execution before innovation right here on Keo…. Twat 
22 Aug 2012, 17:06 pm
@pompies2-136: A lot of comparison of the Bok game plan with the Stormers i.e being based on solid defences with limited attacking abilities, but thats not what we have seen in the results under HM to date. The Boks managed 3 tries on Sat whereas the Stormers needed maybe 6-8 games to achieve the same
22 Aug 2012, 17:06 pm
Imo,
Heyneke is a 66.666% test level coach.
Unfortunately going to take a drubbing in the RC
Shall win the 2 matches against Arg and with possible good fortune, maybeeee the home test against Aus.
At best a 3 out of 6 return for the RC
Most likely a flunking 2 out of 6 – 33.3333%
22 Aug 2012, 17:07 pm
@Transformation-146:
no, but i would apreciate it, more than words can tell, if you told us how that converstion went..?..
or was it not ‘stimulating’ enough for you..?..
why waffle on and on to a very ‘eager’ audience about things some slimey kiwi has to say? honestly, those three anti-****** devils incarnate have nothing of value or worth to impart to me. of course i cannot speak for others.
22 Aug 2012, 17:08 pm
@bananaboy-152: No bonus points for 3 tries, so it’s the same.
22 Aug 2012, 17:08 pm
@Transformation-141: Plum is Sharkie through and through… Farken Iranz bulldust… I actually reckon your one hand is reserved for pulling wire on anything quoting “iranz”, the other for anything Wayne Smith… while your po,ephol is reserved solely for Cheeky Watson.
22 Aug 2012, 17:08 pm
anti-******-devils incarnate
22 Aug 2012, 17:08 pm
@pompies2-149: no PdV got his rugby education in Wales, from the welsh grandmasters of running rugby…
22 Aug 2012, 17:09 pm
anti – c h r i s t
22 Aug 2012, 17:11 pm
@Transformation-158: I knew about Wales, but i heard somewhere about him paying from his own pocket to get the IRANZ qualification. Either way PDV did invest in his coaching career, like he did in his teaching career.
22 Aug 2012, 17:11 pm
@Heavens Game-151: don’t overrate yourself mfana…
22 Aug 2012, 17:12 pm
@pompies2-148: You dont reckon? I heard from a little birdy somewhere that they have the highest point scoring rate in the 3rd quarter of Super Rugby out of all teams.
22 Aug 2012, 17:14 pm
@Heavens Game-156:
and yours?
one hand for BullSharks and the other for an IRANZ-tutored plumtree and your arse for Sharks_Lover?
22 Aug 2012, 17:16 pm
they really do have faces and a look about them which to me represents evil, in a satanic sense, i believe. whenever i would see the faces of that coaching trinity on tv there was always just something about them and a uneasy feeling in me, regarding them.
the way they spoke and the things they would say…ugghh!
pure evil…
only to be topped off by the camera panning to satans own spawn.. blegh!
22 Aug 2012, 17:17 pm
@Heavens Game-156: you can’t deny Plum goes to IRANZ every end of season to learn more from his masters…it is what has kept him in the job, you think dumbarse Hugh Reece-Edwards is the reason tyou’re winning? bwahahahahahaahha
22 Aug 2012, 17:17 pm
@Transformation-163: Executed…by Innovation… Again
Shame….
22 Aug 2012, 17:19 pm
@Transformation-165: Whats wrong Transie….? You like an angry bunch of hornets all of a sudden
Luvving this…
22 Aug 2012, 17:19 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-154: “why waffle on and on to a very ‘eager’ audience about things some slimey kiwi has to say? honestly, those three anti-****** devils incarnate have nothing of value or worth to impart to me. of course i cannot speak for others.”
they are rugby men and i love the game of rugby, i can’t help it!
22 Aug 2012, 17:20 pm
@Heavens Game-167: not “angry” just talking smack for a change
22 Aug 2012, 17:21 pm
@Transformation-168:
i will never submit to evil
i would rather die
22 Aug 2012, 17:24 pm
@Transformation-168:
seeing as you love the game of rugby so much why dont you tell me what heyneke had to say, please. i would really like to hear that, no matter how brief.
22 Aug 2012, 17:25 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-170: look, i don’t only speak rugby with saffas, anyone that loves the game gets an audience with me.
22 Aug 2012, 17:25 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-171: gym calls…
22 Aug 2012, 17:26 pm
@Heavens Game-162: Can’t see it happening to be honest, especially without Bissie. A big part of the Sharks’ success has been their synergy. With that being broken, it will be more difficult.
22 Aug 2012, 17:28 pm
@Transformation-173:
yip, cheers
22 Aug 2012, 17:33 pm
@pompies2-174: I think my main point is that Sharks players are not as daunted or restricted in chasing a lead as Stormers players have been shown to be this season… If there is a need to throw off the shackles of any game plan that is not working then its not like they might stand around looking like WTF. Stuff could happen and other guys could follow.
22 Aug 2012, 17:34 pm
@Transformation-173: Gwaan, go lick those wounds… and don’t forget to take the latest Waynie article for your spinclass, right?
22 Aug 2012, 17:36 pm
@Heavens Game-166: boet that Mgodoyi thinks because he is a Stabane we are too, he is the dude with his lips all over cape town d!cks and Kiwi d!cks,
22 Aug 2012, 17:36 pm
@bananaboy-152: “Boks managed 3 tries on Sat” – oh dear, some more “inconvenient truths”
22 Aug 2012, 17:38 pm
fuggin arrogant Mpumpane
22 Aug 2012, 17:38 pm
@Heavens Game-176: Agreed, but that loosening of the shackles is dependent on synergy. Synergy is based on communication. Sometimes this communication is non-verbal. For any international coach, the biggest challenge to to harmonize and build understanding between players. If they all sing off the same hymn sheet, then there won’t be confusion.
22 Aug 2012, 17:38 pm
@sharks_lover-178: Naah mate… I enjoy Transie… But every now and then the cheekybugger needs a good smack
22 Aug 2012, 17:39 pm
@bananaboy-152:
Dont be showing the truth, there will be huge cries of deniel 
because they think they be having it.
22 Aug 2012, 17:40 pm
@Heavens Game-182: more then a klap,
22 Aug 2012, 17:48 pm
@pompies2-181: Yeah. I dont disagree…. And this then relates back to a first principle of HM – “Execution before Innovation”… Which actually to some extent means “same page”.
Look, I enjoy my rugger a bit more cavalier than the Boks have produced other than the 2nd half of the test against England – but I appreciate that HM has a plan, like Plum had a plan this year for the Sharks…. Part of Plum’s plan was to peak later in the long comp… Yes, there were some unforseen banana skins – but by and large Plum’s overall strategy worked and the Sharks made the final by peaking at the right time… Yes they lost but after severe travel penalties – but who knows what might have happened if they won just one more game such as the Tahs or Lions – games that they targeted as winable?
HM’s plan to get everyone on the same page before going further into his playbook might have hit a hiccup in the last test against England, but all is okay so far – despite some key players not playing.
22 Aug 2012, 17:55 pm
@sharks_lover-184: what are you going to give me sharkie? you FATbastard
22 Aug 2012, 17:56 pm
Dont be so loud mouth Mgodoyi, you know where i am, oh i aint fat, but i have heard that you are, talk about a *******?? your parents should inform you about you
22 Aug 2012, 17:58 pm
@Transformation-186: Pumaa was 1000% correct about you,
22 Aug 2012, 18:03 pm
@sharks_lover-187: oh really? lol…
anyway,whatever puma told you tell him i feel the same about him
22 Aug 2012, 18:06 pm
@sharks_lover-178: stand up for yourself sharkie & quit riding HG’s coattails & s.chlong!
you talk s.hit to me you get it right back, farking mormon!
22 Aug 2012, 18:12 pm
@Heavens Game-185:
> HM’s plan to get everyone on the same page before going further into his playbook
Hello HG, how’s it hanging?
They conveniently forget that we’ve got both a new coach and team, Deans has been at the Wallabies for a while and Hansen has been there forever. Most teams in those two countries play the same type of rugby as well, so it’s easy to slot a new player in, unlike the Bulls, Sharks and Stormers all play different styles of rugby
We have a scrumhalf with the slowest and wildest pass in the business, an overplayed flyhalf who seemed to have lost his confidence, an inside centre who wouldn’t pass even if his life depended on it, and yet they demand flowing, Barbarian style running rugby?
Yet just a month or two ago, these same guys were satisfied with week upon week of the basically tryless Stormers campaign?
22 Aug 2012, 18:30 pm
I see some people can’t fight their own battles here.
22 Aug 2012, 20:29 pm
@victoriabok-191: Huzzit Vic. Yeah 100% – with the current level of “outrage” these fools dont actually know whether they are Arthur, Martha or the crossdresser – There is no rhyme or reason with this lot.
It is funny picking up the obvious inconsistencies though
22 Aug 2012, 22:32 pm
@willievz-106:
All the major test teams were at RWC 1987.
SA cant be a world test team……… when they did not play test rugby for many years..
The RWC 1987 was the turning point from Amateur to professionalism.
If SA were not so naughty, you too could have enjoyed the first RWC. But it seems you would rather think the RWC or the reason as to why SA were boycotted did not exist.
22 Aug 2012, 22:35 pm
@victoriabok-191: bah humbug…is everything you’ve just said NEW? i guess when jake was coaching ALL saffa franchises were playing ONE style, how many games did FdP play in 2010, did the coach ever blame his young scrummy “with the widest pass”?
excuses.
22 Aug 2012, 22:47 pm
@victoriabok-191: your excuses for meyer dont wash…in 2009 the year everyone says our “big guns” peaked the all blacks started with a centre pairing of brendon leonard & steven donald, they had rookie isaac ross @ 5 squaring against matfield…but hey we claim ’09 as our whitewash year & rightly so!
we are told meyer is very astute, let’s see it.
22 Aug 2012, 22:51 pm
@Transformation-196: halfback pairing!
23 Aug 2012, 00:56 am
Even the beloved HM is taken to the drill
i love SA rugby supporters 
no patients and no vision 
23 Aug 2012, 00:58 am
Oh and long term memory loss for sure!! Vrede, im pretty sure you said when PDIV had the same strategy is was not the right one but HM has it and now it is??
23 Aug 2012, 00:59 am
I just like consistancy, HM is a good coach and this team will get better and better.
We will struggle to beat NZ and the Aussies away miggt be too much for us
23 Aug 2012, 07:34 am
@Transformation-165: Have you ever spoken to Hugh Reece Edwards? Calling him dumb shows how dumb you are.
23 Aug 2012, 07:38 am
@victoriabok-191: Good post
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