Pumas drop fullback
22 Aug 2012
Argentina head coach Santiago Phelan has made one change for to his starting line-up for the clash against the Springboks in Mendoza on Saturday.
Phelan has decided to replace fullback Lucas Amorosino with Martin Rodriguez for the Pumas’ first home Test of the Rugby Championship. Amorosino had a poor outing at Newlands, which included a knock-on that set the platform for South Africa’s first try in their 27-6 victory.
This means No 8 Juan Martín Fernández Lobbe remains at No 8 and will captain the side, while Juan Martin Hernandez features at flyhalf.
Phelan will announce his bench at a later stage.
Argentina – 15 Lucas Amorosino, 14 Gonzalo Camacho, 13 Marcelo Bosch, 12 Santiago Fernández, 11 Horacio Agulla, 10 Juan Martín Hernández, 9 Nicolas Vergallo, 8 Juan Martín Fernández Lobbe (c), 7 Álvaro Galindo, 6 Julio Cabello, 5 Patricio Albacete, 4 Manuel Carizza, 3 Juan Figallo, 2 Eusebio Guiñazu, 1 Rodrigo Roncero.
Subs: TBC
87 Comments
Pages: « 1 [2] Show All
22 Aug 2012, 12:18 pm
Consider that:
Johann Muller
Albert Van Den Bergh
Bok Skinstad (past his prime and there laregely for leadership)
Wikus Van Heerden (who stood in superbly for Burger)
Butch James (who also played out of his skin)
Ricky Januarie
Wynand Olivier
Andre Pretorius
Ashwin Willemse (injury had crippled his game and he was simply a passanger)
Akona Ndungane
Formed a third of the 2007 RWC squad.
All fine players when on form, but I believe Meyer has some youngsters coming through who have more talent and potential than the above names.
He just needs to get the balance of his starting 22 right and rope in a few more players from overseas plus have some of his favourites/key players return from injury.
22 Aug 2012, 12:19 pm
@Transformation-44: Pretty much how all successful teams have operated. A 12, with the skills and decision making of a 10. That’s why a combination of Lambie and Frans Steyn will be a step up from a normal 10 and 12. Their ability to interchange will create more options for tactical kicking and the ability to spread the ball wide, without compromising the space that was created.
22 Aug 2012, 12:22 pm
@pompies2-52: cant wait to see that for the sharks.
tim whitehead also had a massive season for the sharks this year, rate him highly.
22 Aug 2012, 12:22 pm
“Argentina – 15 Lucas Amorosino, 14 Gonzalo Camacho, 13 Marcelo Bosch, 12 Santiago Fernández, 11 Horacio Agulla, 10 Juan Martín Hernández, 9 Nicolas Vergallo, 8 Juan Martín Fernández Lobbe (c), 7 Álvaro Galindo, 6 Julio Cabello, 5 Patricio Albacete, 4 Manuel Carizza, 3 Juan Figallo, 2 Eusebio Guiñazu, 1 Rodrigo Roncero.”
“Phelan has decided to replace fullback Lucas Amorosino with Martin Rodriguez”
Mistake….ai
22 Aug 2012, 12:22 pm
One also cannot ignore the significance of Montgomery’s contribution to that squad.
Matfield may have received the MOM award for that final, but in my mind it should have gone to Monty.
22 Aug 2012, 12:23 pm
@pompies2-42:
absolute fact, end of.
with meyer at the helm of the 2007 squad there probably would have been a great many suicides in nz and at least one assasination attempt.
22 Aug 2012, 12:23 pm
@rangerman-49: I’m gonna disagree again. Frans is a bit behind SBW at this stage. SBW is a bit more calculating in his play and his involvement creates opportunities almost every time he touches the ball. Yes he doesn’t have a real kicking game, but he has developed this skill. If Frans were to develop his play and decision making he’d get mighty close, but he won’t surpass SBW. Obviously in the goal-kicking stakes, it’s no contest.
22 Aug 2012, 12:25 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-56: So prove it. Afterall, that’s what facts are. They are provable.
22 Aug 2012, 12:25 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-48: i know, i was chuffed to get a chance to pick his brain a little when he was here last year.
WS on:
Attacking rugby
“The great thing about rugby is that you always have a choice about how you want to play. And some of that [kicking away possession], I call it rugby tennis. I think that probably reflected some of the strict rulings at the start [of Super Rugby], being penalised at the breakdown as an attacking team. But as that improved I think there was much more reward for using the ball rather than giving it away. We [Chiefs] never changed from that philosophy at all.”
22 Aug 2012, 12:26 pm
@rangerman-53: Will need to improve his kicking game and decision making. I’m actually not sure what Tim’s best position is. 12 or 13?
22 Aug 2012, 12:27 pm
A brace of points from me:
1. The “golden squad” Tac refers to reached their final goal by winning the 3N 2009. After that, it was all downhill, and fast. My informed guestimate is that most of the senior players tasted all the success they wanted to taste, and simply did not have the hunger needed for further success on the test stage.
2. Any coach would have struggled with that kind out attitude explained in 1.
22 Aug 2012, 12:28 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-47: no he was the player who was initially outjumped by Bryan, shouldn’t really happen to a test full-back under a high ball. He also dropped the ball on his own line from a simple pass in the run-up to the Kirchner try giving SA a 5m scrum.
22 Aug 2012, 12:31 pm
@willievz-61:Agreed, but I do feel PDV slipped up as well. He should’ve recognised and made the necessary adjustments. He was trying to be a good guy, to his own detriment.
22 Aug 2012, 12:31 pm
@pompies2-57: we will agree to disagree bud.
dont judge frans on what he is forced to play at the boks, watch the lad play for the sharks rather. he is used at both for his bulk and to get over the advantage line but his distribution is top notch, in both directions, unlike sbw.
and sonny wishes he could kick a ball like frans. imo frans is a better player with better skills, playing a different role in a differnet gameplan.
@pompies2-60: i reckon he is a 12. not enough pace for 13.
then again he has done fine at 13 at s15 level so what a blessing for te sharks to have him as backup for frans and jordaan.
he runs some of the best lines you will see in rugby imo.
22 Aug 2012, 12:37 pm
@rangerman-64:
If Sharks can get Cilliers and Pienaar to return to KZN and also potentially draft in Jantjies then they will have shored up their depth and should have one helluva squad for next S15 season.
22 Aug 2012, 12:37 pm
I don’t believe our lock pairing is in anyway a lesser pairing than that of the ABs or Ozz. When Bakkies and Matfield started in pro rugby they were miles away from the players they would become. Looking at ‘n guy like Etsebeth who has started his first pro season as the best no4 in the 2012 super rugby comp, I am very positive about him reaching higher heights than Bakkies.
Kruger and Bekker I don’t know, but both are much better than Matfield was in the loose. Matfield was a one trick poney(a trick that gave us a huge advantage) plus great leadership and experience.
Our front row is better than it was (with Busmarck and Coenie on the bench), we have great loosies in the pipeline and we have a great bunch of youngsters (u/20) team that will start making their impact on the world stage next year. We have a possible super star in Goosen ready to burst past Steyn.
Not this year, maybe not next year, but come 2014 and beyond…not that dark at all.
22 Aug 2012, 12:38 pm
@rangerman-64:
Sharks are very thin at prop.
22 Aug 2012, 12:39 pm
@willievz-61: I’m sorry, they played their guts out in the 2011 RWC QF, but it wasn’t meant to be or wasn’t allowed to be.
22 Aug 2012, 12:40 pm
@puff-65: I think Pienaar should rather come down to the Cape, we need a proper scrummie.
22 Aug 2012, 12:40 pm
puff #38 – Yes that is one good looking Bok squad. The Bok injuries are rather significant plus players off to japan.
But OZ have lost a few players to injury, ABs as well. I think the telling demands of S15 and 3N(RC) are beginning ot tell on the players! The Big 3 are suffering a bit!!!
22 Aug 2012, 12:40 pm
@rangerman-64: frans better than sbw? pffttt
22 Aug 2012, 12:40 pm
@pompies2-58:
in this case the fact cant be proved because its all ‘after the fact’
just rest assured in the knowledge that heyneke meyer and the 2007 squad is gospel.
22 Aug 2012, 12:41 pm
@Transformation-59: That must have been helluva cool. To talk rugby with Wayne Smith, must be like talking peace with the Dalai Lama.
I wonder if our lot ever read his columns **rolling ogies**
@willievz-61: P Divvy says as much in his book. .
22 Aug 2012, 12:42 pm
@Big Hit-62:
ok
thanks
22 Aug 2012, 12:44 pm
@pompies2-63: Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Would you have dropped those senior players in 2010, at the time?
22 Aug 2012, 12:47 pm
@goodstuff-66:
i like eztebeth and i know he is young but i wish to see more grunt from him.
just a little less of this new age fancy stuff and a little more plain old simple lock number four ‘dirty’ work.
i want to see him go into rucks and tell the opposition the facts of life.
22 Aug 2012, 12:50 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-76:
Also why we will miss the likes of Burger and Smith this season.
22 Aug 2012, 12:56 pm
@puff-77:
yip
this is not a ‘physical’ bok pack.
not by a long shot.
22 Aug 2012, 13:44 pm
@willievz-75: Difficult to say. Would definitely have had strong words. The Smit move to prop didn’t work. The lack of a decent tighthead didn’t help either. Also not sure how well Matfield would’ve marshaled the diverse set of troops.
I reckon PDV weighed up an under performing captain vs a possible rudderless ship.
22 Aug 2012, 13:46 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-72: then it’s not a fact, but your faith. Faith, being what it is, is unquantifiable.
22 Aug 2012, 13:57 pm
@pompies2-80:
and the fact is, that is just your opinion, not a fact. opinions, being what they are….
22 Aug 2012, 13:59 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-81: I didn’t make the factual statement, you did. You could be right. He could’ve achieved a flawless record, but that will never be proven.
22 Aug 2012, 14:02 pm
Burger
Kolisi
Vermeulen
Coetzee
Alberts
Kankowski
Brussow
Louw
Deysel
All the above loosies could contribute well to Boks.
Now consider how many are playing overseas, are out injured or have only just returned from injury and therefore not match-fit enough to be part of the squad.
22 Aug 2012, 14:03 pm
@pompies2-82:
exactly
i’m happy if you’re happy
22 Aug 2012, 14:22 pm
@pompies2-79: What is our winning percentage against the ABs with Smit at 3?
Smit got shown up on the EOYT 2009 at 3, but has won a BIL series and a 3N playing at prop…
I thought that was a brave move by PDV that paid off, for a while.
22 Aug 2012, 14:31 pm
@willievz-85: The move should only have been a stopgap. I suppose the argument could be made that there weren’t too many options. At best, Smit should’ve been on the bench.
22 Aug 2012, 14:42 pm
@goodstuff-68: They certainly did throw the full kitchen sink at the Aussies. And they wanted to win the tournament.
But it was very clear after the 3N 2009 that the senior players wanted to play in the 2011 WC and have a shot at defending the cup, and that any game leading up to the 2011 showpiece would not carry as much value as the tests at the WC. That sounds pretty logical to me, and as a nation, we probably felt the same.
They did not use the time between 3N 2009 and RWC 2011 to build momentum against the world’s top sides. The Aussies went into that game having won the last 4 tests against the Boks. They went in with the confidence that they can beat us, when really they should not have had that luxury.
We were our own worst enemy.
@pompies2-86: In hindsight, yes, Smit should have been on the bench at the RWC.
Pages: « 1 [2] Show All
Have your say
You must be logged in to post a comment.