Saru’s Super Rugby solution not set in stone
23 Aug 2012
GARETH DUNCAN says while most of South Africa bemoaned Saru’s decision-making in accommodating the Southern Kings next season, many missed the fine print.
On Thursday last week, Saru announced that the Lions would be relegated from the South African Super Rugby conference in order to make way for the Kings. This was the decision voted by majority of the 14 unions at the annual general meeting, after no other suitable solution could be drawn up after months and months of negotiations and emergency meetings.
Saru also announced its promotion-relegation initiative, which will allow the Lions to compete for a Super Rugby place in 2014 as they’ll face next year’s last placed South African franchise in a play-off.
Many pundits see this as a lose-lose situation. And they are right.
Let’s look at the Kings.
It’s ridiculous to expect them to escape the wooden spoon in their debut season (well, at least in the South African conference which was the strongest group in this year’s competition). Super Rugby trends have proven that the newbies don’t do well during their early years. The Melbourne Rebels and Western Force finished last in their debut campaigns and still feature in the bottom half of the table every season, despite the odd upset victory. The Lions and Cheetahs haven’t fared much better since splitting from the Cats initiative in 2006.
The Kings will also struggle to recruit the necessary player base to be competitive at Super Rugby level. High-profile names will be hesitant to sign a one-year contract as the Eastern Cape franchise can’t guarantee tournament participation in 2014.
Saru’s answer to the media’s question of the Kings not being given enough time to carry out the necessary plans to ensure they will be competitive in 2013 was that the confirmation on their exclusion was made ‘several months ago’.
If this is so, the national administrators handled the situation poorly.
There were several stories that speculated the Kings were going to be dropped at the last minute. This including the report from the Weekend Argus in July that Saru offered the Eastern Cape franchise R40 million to stall their Super Rugby ambitions until 2016. If this was false, why didn’t Saru come out publicly and denounce these rumours?
This did the Kings no favours.
Kings boss Cheeky Watson has complained that they’re not happy with being given only one season to prove themselves. But Saru CEO Jurie Roux has revealed a way for them to extend their stay.
While most of the media focused on lamenting Saru’s decision, Roux confirmed that if the Kings received the majority vote to have an extended stay in Super Rugby at the next annual general meeting, and if this was passed by Saru’s executive council, then it would be granted.
Roux did, however, add that this is unlikely.
When it comes to the Lions, they’re in a very tricky situation.
While they’re in the Super Rugby wilderness, they’re also in trouble financially as reported on keo.co.za on Wednesday.
Saru confirmed that they are in negotiations with powers up north to see if the Lions could compete in any European competitions in 2013, but this is unlikely to happen as the European season starts in a couple of weeks.
However, Roux revealed a way for the Lions to feature in Super Rugby next season. He said the South African franchises are ‘businesses’ and they are allowed to run their ‘businesses’ as they’re pleased. So if the Lions were to amalgamate with another South African franchise, this would be allowed.
The only issue is, who would want to merge with a franchise in financial turmoil? The Lions have shot themselves in the foot (maybe even the chest) in the way they’ve run their business.
Saru’s Super Rugby solution is not set in stone. The Lions and Kings are likely to appeal its current terms, but the national union is unlikely to budge. If possible, the franchises should look at the fine print to solve their woes, more so the Kings.
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623 Comments
23 Aug 2012, 08:28 am
Point is that the Kings claim to play S15 because of all the local talent.
Yet they are importing white players from everywhere, so where are all the locals ?
How many black local players do they field on average, why does no reporter ask Watsy this ?
23 Aug 2012, 08:37 am
Lions should let this go.
Let all those injury prone players take the year off and maybe they can go a whole season without breaking down, or they will just leave when they are 100%
My garden is excited for 2013…. expecting big things.
23 Aug 2012, 08:45 am
Just join the Bulls already.
Sell EPS, make FNB Stadium our new holy grail.
23 Aug 2012, 08:45 am
Why does Duncan put this line in brackets?”(well, at least in the South African conference which was the strongest group in this year’s competition)”, is it because he lacks conviction, or maybe it is an untruth.
23 Aug 2012, 08:52 am
@Te Rangatira-4: South Africa had the most franchises in the play-offs.
23 Aug 2012, 08:58 am
@PissAnt-3:
We’re not taking The Butcher.
We’ll have Strauss, Minnie and Tauter and Ndre Coetzee.
The Jokers can have the rest.
23 Aug 2012, 09:01 am
@Te Rangatira-4: @GarethDuncan-5: how does one determine witch conference is the strongest?
why does it matter?
23 Aug 2012, 09:03 am
@gunther-6:
Callie Visagie is another.
23 Aug 2012, 09:05 am
@GarethDuncan-5:
and they got there cleanly to boot.
23 Aug 2012, 09:06 am
@gunther-6: @PissAnt-8: both your teams could use pat cilliers, he is better than both werner & brok…
23 Aug 2012, 09:07 am
@Transformation-7:
I look at the percentage of points the conference attained out of the possible 280 available for each pool
NZ 224 80%
SA 207 74%
AUS 170 61%
for what that is worth, use it dont use it
23 Aug 2012, 09:08 am
who’s gonna take baywatch..?..
23 Aug 2012, 09:10 am
@Transformation-10:
Thats the damn truth
23 Aug 2012, 09:12 am
This whole saga is like the Gouteng Toll system,
Gov borrowed money to build a new road , so they want to use toll to pay the loan.
If everyone could manage to not use the road, where would they get the money, you can only use toll for road maintanance not to repay capital, why has no one asked this question ?
So Mr Cheeky, where are all the local black players ?
23 Aug 2012, 09:14 am
mapoe would be a value buy
and for a bonus it would be fun if he had the statistic of playing for every provincial union.
23 Aug 2012, 09:16 am
Yes Fat Pat too.
Bulls could do well out of this.
23 Aug 2012, 09:16 am
@capebull-14:
the kings have implemented a 10 year plan. they are not even in year 1, give them time.
23 Aug 2012, 09:18 am
Sad situation.
@PissAnt-3:
Pissant, might I ask, what would be the financial benefit to the Bullsshould they takie in the Lions?
As opposed to simply contracting the 2 or 3 of their top players that we’re interested in?
In the latter option, we don’t need to share any of our revenues with them.
23 Aug 2012, 09:21 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-12:
NSRI
23 Aug 2012, 09:22 am
@capebull-14: keep repeating the same nonsense hoping it will change into a legitimate issue, transformation is an imperative of all unions not just the kings, where are the local pretoria black players in the bulls team?
23 Aug 2012, 09:22 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-17: oh glory, not the plan story again, Lions are still busy with their 3 year plan from 10 years ago
23 Aug 2012, 09:29 am
@Tacitus-18:
Not take in Tac.
Merge.
23 Aug 2012, 09:30 am
@PissAnt-22:
And again, how does that benefit the Bulls financially?
23 Aug 2012, 09:31 am
SARU are an absolute disgrace and have done nothing for the Lions or the Kings. I’m for boycotting games and empty stadiums until that lot are fired!
23 Aug 2012, 09:35 am
Kings do not have to do well in their first year of Super 15… which they won’t… they’ll set new records for being pummelled… all they have to achieve is getting a squad together during the S15 that can beat the Lions… who by then will have lost all their best players… and if they cannot even do that… then see you later…
As an aside… why does it even have to be the Lions… surely it should be whichever CC team (outside the S15 unions) that is higher on the ladder)… as it stands the Kings were nowhere near there neither…
Banana Republic…
23 Aug 2012, 09:35 am
@Transformation-20: Transie you are missing my point , I am not saying any thing against transformation.
I am questioning why Cheeky is not doing any thing about it , he is building a white team with a few blck faces , have we really moved forward ?
Can you build any team in one year or are you setting them up for faliar ?
23 Aug 2012, 09:37 am
haha transformation are you seriously denying that the Kings were supposed to be all about “transforming” the game and “developing” the supposed hotbed of black talent in the EC? Where are all these black players who have so far been denied? Why are the Kings importing whiteys like a crazy? How is a predominantly white Kings team any different to a predominantly white Lions team?
23 Aug 2012, 09:38 am
I see only the Bulls and Sharks voted for the Lions
23 Aug 2012, 09:38 am
@Transformation-20:
What is the conversion rate , from school to provincial ?
23 Aug 2012, 09:38 am
@Atlas-28: 6 teams voted
23 Aug 2012, 09:41 am
@MacToogie-21:
for more information on the kings 10 year plan please speak to transie.
i got the info from him.
@gunther-19:
he probably could raise the fundraising profile.
23 Aug 2012, 09:47 am
It would appear that gumede was the lions only hope…..and they managed to bugger that up as well.
23 Aug 2012, 09:47 am
@capebull-1: Most of the players are involved in other Unions already , the way I see it the Kings need to find balance. They need a platform for their young players to be represented , guys like Siya Kolisi and co while at the same time they need to be competitive so that the people wont lose interest and support. No-one is going to support a losing team every year (well expect some die hard lions fans).
If the Kings play just local black talent in year 1 they would be murdered , no one ever said that the team should be local black rugby players only anyway. No new team in super rugby history ever managed to finish off the bottom of the log in year 1 yet you all expect the kings to do that and with local players only that has basically very limited exposure to super rugby ?
Take into account that they have been messed around so long and probably lost out on some players that could not wait for SARU to make a decision and the fact that they only guaranteed super rugby participation for a year I think that the Kings are doomed from the start. Not many players will sign for a year…..well except maybe Sonny lol
Its a lose lose situation and it feels like back in the day when a black player was picked on the wing for the boks just to please the powers that be.
The question I have for the pro Lions people is how can you argue the inclusion of the lions ahead of the kings now ? Their long history of **** results (what has it been now ? 10 years ?) , the poor support and safety of Ellis Park ? The dispute and subsequent separation with their Gumde sponsors and this court case that basically tells us that the Lions tried to steal money from their partners ?
23 Aug 2012, 09:48 am
@capebull-30:
Each team has 2 votes
Lions, Bulls & Sharks = 6
23 Aug 2012, 09:50 am
@Humphrey-27: My point as well, if they have a 10 year plan , how will this 1 year benefit in them ?
Normally plans are more like this
Year 1 win B comp
Year 2 play cc
Year 3 Play semi cc
Year 4 win cc
Year 5 play S15
Year 6 play S15
Year 7 Play semi in S15 …..
Kings
Year 1 play B Comp lose final to Boland by 60 Points
Year 2 paly B comp are log leaders…
Year 3 play S15
What a plan
23 Aug 2012, 09:50 am
@Atlas-34: You are wrong , Kobus wiese indicated all 6 test unions voted against that.
23 Aug 2012, 09:52 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-32:
look at his business history and profile, ask how he made his money.
i dont think he was ever going to do anything other than try to screw- them further. so in that instance i think they actually did really well.
they screwwed him first.
23 Aug 2012, 09:57 am
What a total farce. SARU have the right to impose franchise groupings dating back to the original S14. In fact, they have the right to veto a franchise coach appointment.
Compare this to the Blues, where NZRU sat in on the coaches selection panel, and where their franchises are considered and treated as an integral part of the All Black selection and development process.
So now Roux is claiming that the franchises are actually independent entities and not an integral part of the Bok system.
23 Aug 2012, 09:57 am
@capebull-36: R365
Golden Lions Rugby Union President Kevin de Klerk told this website that he will meet up with the South African Rugby Union hierarchy on Thursday.
This follows the SARU decision last week to axe the Lions and replace them with the Southern Kings in 2013.
The fall-out from the vote at last week’s General Council meeting – which went 23-6 in favour of the Kings, with only the Bulls and Sharks supporting the Lions – may cause a few aftershocks in the weeks to come.
The Lions boss, De Klerk, has made his displeasure with the outcome very clear.
23 Aug 2012, 09:58 am
@Humphrey-27:
i find it strange that us white South Africans shout from the roof tops when we even get the slightest idea that a player of colour is not in a team on merit, we demand that anyone (black,white, coloured etc) be there as the best in their position, but now the Kings come and say they want to promote the interests of black players we demand that they fill their team with the first 15 black faces in the squad, nowhere did i read that they will start a set number of black players in the first year, or 3 years or even 5 years, all they said is they want the opportunity to develop this region and promote black players in SA rugby. development takes time people, be careful not to become hypocritical when it comes to the whole Kings debate.
23 Aug 2012, 09:59 am
@GarethDuncan-5:
I would have thought a better indicator of the strength of a certain conference in relation to another would be the number of wins that conference had against teams outside of said conference.
23 Aug 2012, 10:00 am
@sparticus-33: I am not for the Lions , I am against the poor way SARU handled it .
Kings for sure have no chance in S15 . They are not given a proper chance. The whole thing is badly managed. Next year every one will say ,” see I told you so” its not fair to them.
It took Bulls 3-5 years to be competitive and thats with a team that played in many cc games, Cheetas still not there ?
23 Aug 2012, 10:03 am
@MacToogie-40: you are wrong of course, the Kings are all about “transformation” and it would be silly if you were to deny this. Otherwise, why the howls for their (otherwise unjustified and undeserved) inclusion? They have no justification for inclusion on merit. Point is, if they are a team of whiteys then why all the hoo haa of booting out the Lions when they were the same – just another team of whiteys.
23 Aug 2012, 10:03 am
@capebull-36:
the 14 unions have two votes each and hoskins as president has one vote.
bulls 2 + sharks + 2 + lions 2 = 6 in favour
remaining 11 union 2 votes + hoskins 1 = 23 against
23 Aug 2012, 10:05 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-44:
Hoskins = Bloody agent
23 Aug 2012, 10:05 am
@Te Rangatira-41: @GarethDuncan-5:
my point exactly in @MacToogie-11:
you have to look at the conference as a whole if you want to decide which conference is stronger, you cant cherry pick 2 or 3 teams as your argument.
23 Aug 2012, 10:08 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-44: Are you sure the Lions voted for the Lions ???
Its a bit like the cricket with Petersen sending sms to AB and co.
So the press gets it , now no-one knows how it got to the press, did Kevin send it to them or did his friend AB send it ?
23 Aug 2012, 10:08 am
@Humphrey-27: where is the denial?
the kings, since cheeky took over have indeed fielded more homegrown talent than most unions, are those players super rugby QUALITY? NO!
should they be fielded just to please naysayers like yourself who get off on bean counting? NO
23 Aug 2012, 10:09 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-44: So 14*2+1=29 does it ?
23 Aug 2012, 10:09 am
Cape Times says Stormers / WP after Maku, Rhodes, Jantjes and J Strauss
23 Aug 2012, 10:10 am
@Humphrey-43: my point is transformation and development cannot happen over night at any franchise, Sharks were pushed up to CC premier division, did they deserve it? there are points for and against that, hind sight would suggest it was for the best of SA rugby, today we sit with the same situation, Kings now have the opportunity to start that development process, they will now have increased resources to build structures to facilitate their transformation goals, it wont happen over night, it might NEVER happen, but you cant blast them before they have even started trying.
23 Aug 2012, 10:11 am
@MacToogie-40: it’s too late for that and humphrey is not the only one, look at capebull’s 1st 2 posts…all he is looking for are “black players” as if they come off a conveyer belt…
23 Aug 2012, 10:11 am
@grant10-50: Also strong rumours of Cilliers, Butch, and TAute maybe headed Sharks way
23 Aug 2012, 10:13 am
@Humphrey-43:
You’re confusing development with transformation. Without a franchise the EC region has been losing it’s best players which is why they can’t start with a competitive side that includes a majority of black players, when they’ve already moved to other provinces.
23 Aug 2012, 10:13 am
@Transformation-48:
Trans I’m looking forward to seeing the Kings have a go next year, really hoping they do well.
23 Aug 2012, 10:16 am
@grant10-50: Why Rhodes and Maku ? I would rather we go after Cilliers and Taute instead. We have enough capable hookers. Scarra looked very good this past weekend.
23 Aug 2012, 10:17 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-37: blah blah blah what did ja arthur brown do to Boland? he is had the right surname and supposedly the right “business profile” according to you, where did that leave Boland.
Bunker Capital also had the right “business profile” when the bought SWD (Pty) Ltd shares (Pissant was exctatic that he would finally support his HOME province rather than his adopted WP) yet they s.crewed the union up too.
“business profile” se gat!
23 Aug 2012, 10:18 am
@MacToogie-40: Well said !
23 Aug 2012, 10:18 am
@Atlas-45:
perhaps but even with a vote in favour from him it would only be 7 votes?
the lions should have been smart enough to at least sort their franchise partners out the money they owed them, there’s 4 votes right there… how fokkenn stupid.
of course border and ep were always gonna fark them.
so it should have come down to swaying:
boland
griquas
valke
wp
swd
griffons
fs
23 Aug 2012, 10:19 am
what the fools don’t see is that there is NO JUSTIFICATION WHATSOEVER for the Kings’ inclusion, other than to satisfy some “transformation” agenda. They are not even in the Currie Cup premier division, haven’t been for years and have NEVER win the Currie Cup.
Unheard of. How totally undeserved.
They are supposedly there for one purpose and we all know what it is.
What a farce.
23 Aug 2012, 10:20 am
@Transformation-52: Transie , now you are getting there, I agree with you there are only a few black players available , thats why it a problem to field many of them , cause they are not there.If the Kings can over time change this , then I am am all for this.
1 year is enough to fail.
What is conversion rate from school to provincial ?
23 Aug 2012, 10:23 am
@capebull-47:
i think saru themselves said this was how the voting went.
@capebull-49:
huh? i dont understand?
it does?
23 against and 6 in favour?
23 Aug 2012, 10:25 am
@Transformation-57:
ok, but are we agreeing or disagreeing..?..
my opinion is that a dirty businessman was probably going to srew- a dirty union, thats all. the examples you cite are equally apropriate.
23 Aug 2012, 10:26 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-62: Agreed, So Hoskens has only 1 vote
23 Aug 2012, 10:28 am
@Humphrey-60:
there is NO JUSTIFICATION WHATSOEVER for the lions CONTINUED inclusion in super rugby.
23 Aug 2012, 10:29 am
@sharks_lover-53: WP need to try and sign Ruan Pienaar also. Pienaar and Jantjies will make a great combo.
23 Aug 2012, 10:30 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-62:
Didn’t i read somewhere that KDK said WP backed the Lions but Cheetahs turned on them
23 Aug 2012, 10:30 am
@Humphrey-60: Was a time when Eastern Province was a really strong province in the CC (when the Danie Gerbers etc were playing), stronger than Natal and dare I say as strong as Transvaal and OFS. This all changed with professionalism and when Super rugby came to town and franchises started taking away their player base. The game of rugby is traditionally strong in the EC within the schools set up and I’m sure given the opportunity (like the Sharks were given) they could develop into quite a strong franchise.
23 Aug 2012, 10:31 am
@capebull-64:
yip
the final truth of this matter is quite simply that the lions made their bed.
they must now pass away in their sleep.
23 Aug 2012, 10:31 am
I wont be surprised if Saru drop a bomb right before the season starts that the Kings if they finish last in the SA conference wont have to play in the regulation game it will be the next worst performing team.
23 Aug 2012, 10:33 am
@Sasuke-66: Not if the gameplan is to tackle only.
23 Aug 2012, 10:34 am
@bananaboy-68: It could be , but why are the Lions battling
23 Aug 2012, 10:36 am
@sparticus-56: Stormers need Maku as Deon Fourie is set to join Toulon at the end of the season.
23 Aug 2012, 10:36 am
@capebull-49: Doesn’t it?
23 Aug 2012, 10:36 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-69: What would have happened if it was Bulls , Stormers or Sharks, you could have 1 bad year . Or will they say , eg. no the Strompies has not won in 12 years.
23 Aug 2012, 10:36 am
@Sasuke-66: Like Fransie Ruan has an agreement at the Sharks, Thus also early release from his contract when he went to the UK, you will see when he returns it will be to the Sharks
23 Aug 2012, 10:36 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-62:
http://www.rugby365.com/article/49149-lions-led-up-the-garden-path
23 Aug 2012, 10:37 am
@Tarlo-74: Maybe not ?
23 Aug 2012, 10:37 am
@Horings-73: Really?
23 Aug 2012, 10:39 am
Western Province captain Deon Fourie has been offered a contract by Toulon and expects to join the French Top14 club after the Currie Cup.
The dynamic hooker confirmed to this website in an exclusive interview that although he has not signed anything yet, Western Province coach Allister Coetzee knows that he is likely to leave at the end of the year.
“It is still depending on what is going on so I am not going to confirm anything yet.
“Allister [Coetzee] knows that I have had an offer, but I am still focused on the Currie Cup, I am still here until the end of October,” said Fourie.
The hard-working front row forward showed his versatility this season by standing in at flank and No.8 for the Stormers during their Super Rugby campaign, a factor which makes him an attractive prospect to overseas clubs.
Fourie admitted that having played professional rugby in South Africa for eight years he is keen to expand his horizons, and if all goes well he expects to be training with Bakkies Botha, Jonny Wilkinson, Matt Giteau and Joe van Niekerk in France by the end of the year.
“It will be nice, something different. I have been here for eight years now so maybe it is time to move in a new direction,” he said.
23 Aug 2012, 10:39 am
@capebull-61:
“What is conversion rate from school to provincial?”
Opening up a can of worms here.
Tell you what. Make a list of all the u/20 players who won the WC earlier this year. Keep it safe for three years and then have a look who made it to CC at least. Compare the total of white players from this team as oppose to the total of black players playing first class rugby.
I can almost guarantee you that the majority of the white players will play 1st class rugby and only a handful of black players. The real question should be, WHY is the conversion rate so low?
Is it because the coaches at senior level have more faith in a white player than in a black player of similar skills and talent?
Does black players lose interest in rugby after u/20 level? If so, why?
So again, WHY (not WHAT) do so few black player advance to senior level after performing very well at age group level?
23 Aug 2012, 10:40 am
@Horings-73: As a WP fan I’d love to see us get Cilliers, Visagie, Elton and Taute… I feel like that plugs up a lot of our problem areas… Most likely though, Visagie and Strauss will come, maybe Elton (now that catrakillis is heading to Kings) but I reckon Cilliers will go home to KZN and Taute… Who knows. Maybe Bulls, if they tell him Zane is on his way out, but he’d have a better bet at WP, Cheetahs or maybe even Kings. I must say I’d like to see Taute and Goosen in the same backline, sepcially with WIllie le Roux, Sarel Pretorious and Ebersohn around.
23 Aug 2012, 10:40 am
@Te Rangatira-55: thanks mate, it’s a start…it may be awful but it is a start.
23 Aug 2012, 10:41 am
@Horings-80: Heyneke Meyer is like Apartheid. He will get blamed for Fourie’s departure like he is blamed for everything wrong in SA rugby.
23 Aug 2012, 10:43 am
@capebull-72: For the same reason the Kings will suffer if they don’t get it right and why Cheetahs suffer as well and that is that they don’t have the financial clout and brand to compete. The Sharks got it right when they focussed on building a “brand” as this enabled them to buy and build a squad and eventually a “succesful” academy. If you look at the “reach” as it were of the Sharks brand it is by far the most recognised SA brand outside of the country followed by the Bulls (who were aided by their recent super rugby successes) . The Kings will fail if they don’t manage to build the Brand and therefore financial success.
23 Aug 2012, 10:43 am
@MacToogie-67:
ok? 6 votes in favour means only two other unions voted with the lions.
who, i dont know?
wp and bulls? or wp and kzn?
or as supposed in the media bulls and kzn
23 Aug 2012, 10:43 am
@Tarlo-82: And Sadie. With Coenie, Strauss, Brussow, Goosen, Sadie, Taute, le Roux the Cheetahs will have more x factor players than either the Bulls or Stormers.
23 Aug 2012, 10:47 am
@70 patch
23 Aug 2012, 10:48 am
@sparticus-56: Deon Fourie is going to France. Apparently.
23 Aug 2012, 10:49 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-89: Oops sorry, didn’t see that Horings had already mentioned this.
23 Aug 2012, 10:51 am
What is the point of the Kings, they no longer serve a transformation purpose as they have failed to bring black players up to world class standards. That is why talented young black players preferred to join other bigger unions because they know that they will get better development at other unions.
The Kings have had millions thrown at them by Saru only for them to piss it up the wall. I believe that if they used their investment correctly, they could be a competitive super rugby franchise within 5 years, but they need to put a player development programme in place to target age groups and develop winning teams at age groups. Contract these players for 5 years and make sure that you don’t lose them to bigger unions for better pay. If EP can start winning u18 and u 21, they will have a clutch of quality players. Look how well some of the rookies performed, back that up with some seasoned veterans and you have a recipe for success.
But all cheeky can do is to use political connections and force his way in way a union that still in tatters.
In my opinion the lions should have been dropped entirely until they sort out their financial mess and the kings shouldn’t have been admitted.
23 Aug 2012, 10:51 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-86: further down i have a link to the interview with KDK, he says WP did but doesnt mention who else did vote with them. must either be Sharks or Bulls cos he lambastes his “pal” in bloem
23 Aug 2012, 10:52 am
@nama1-81: All relevant questions , maybe something else ,
We are still down to mostly black wings , a few props , almost no locks ?
Bulls have a excellent number 6 played SA schools , be he is like 1.75m for schools thats ok , but later ?
23 Aug 2012, 10:55 am
@capebull-75:
well, it has been done before. wp were relegated because they couldn’t make a cc top 4 place.
i think its a good thing for all the unions to have relegation held over their heads.
we have become weak and soft post isolation.
i say make the unions fight that much harder to stay in the top 4, this should raise their competitivness across the comp.
23 Aug 2012, 10:56 am
@kingcorn-91: you obviously know nothing about rugby in SA, show me one player in the Bok sqaud who hasnt been playing Super Rugby. the lure of SR takes those players away because they know they will never get a Bok, its logical and your argument holds no water.
23 Aug 2012, 10:56 am
@MacToogie-77:
so funny to here kevin moaning about ‘dissapointing’ leadership.
23 Aug 2012, 10:59 am
@MacToogie-95: was supposed to read “will never get a shot at the Boks”
23 Aug 2012, 10:59 am
ag the lions must just ******* off to the desert now like moses and come back surfing a big wave scattering bread from the heavens and carrying a newborn lamb or some such fairytale.
then we will see whose church is stronger, cheeky’s or kevins.
23 Aug 2012, 11:00 am
@MacToogie-92:
hehehe
he’s lambasting his ‘pal’ for srewing him over but conveniently forgets how he screwed the pumas and leopards over.
23 Aug 2012, 11:00 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-96: to be fair on KDK i dont think he caused this mess, he inherited it and is trying to keep it going.
23 Aug 2012, 11:01 am
really, kevin is moaning and b i t ching but the reality is that his team have been utter s h it for ten years.
ffs, the lions fans will probably enjoy next years s15 much more as they cant lose.
disclaimer: i feel for lions fans but i feel fokkol for the lions management, hope they all lose their salaries.
23 Aug 2012, 11:03 am
@MacToogie-100: bru, he presided over two awful years where the lions finished bottom end of the table.
not exactly sir alan sugar is he?
23 Aug 2012, 11:03 am
Lost your reply Tac but here goes.
It is becoming increasingly clear that the region (Gauteng) is having trouble sustaining 2 professional rugby franchises. Why split the cake if you can have the whole one?
Since the Bulls are by far the strongest franchise at the moment, can the Lions franchise, just have the Bulls in Gauteng.
Bulls will now have ‘access’ to Lions resources from schools rugby, to club rugby, to age group rugby right through to their professional Currie Cup team.
In fact, the Bulls like the Cheetahs (Super Rugby franchise) will have two representative union teams playing in the Currie Cup premier division!
Lions can sell EPS, flush all the money into their provincial CC setup, make FNB their home ground and we have one Gauteng rugby franchise!!!
Awesome!
23 Aug 2012, 11:04 am
@MacToogie-100:
true to an extent but also true that he could have done a whole lot better himself.
shoulda sorted the franchise partners out.
shoulda tried to make the gumede deal work.
shoulda cut the dead wood sooner.
shoulda woulda coulda…
23 Aug 2012, 11:05 am
@rangerman-102: yeah i get what you saying but by then the financial dwang was well and truly on the wall, but i hear you
23 Aug 2012, 11:05 am
Those ‘hating’, ‘bashing’ and ‘whinging’ about the Kings inclusion and Lions exclusion, need to take a long, hard look at themselves in the mirror. What they might see is a hypocrite staring back at them…..
Anyone who moans, whinges and wails about an incompetent, corrupt and woefully ill equipped ANC led government, always ends their whinge by saying, “why don’t voters get rid of them or vote them out of power….OR: why aren’t the corrupt and useless within the ANC fired OR: why isn’t another govt (political party) given a chance to do better…etc etc etc”.
The same standards you set for morality in politics, should be set for rugby. If the Lions were a political party would you be defending them and all their ‘totallyfuckeduptendenciesandcockups’? Or would you be hoping someone else gets a chance to do better?
I can’t believe some of you honestly want to fight in the Lions corner. Says a lot actually.
The Kings may not be squeaky clean, but unlike the Lions, they don’t need a fuckingindustrialcleaner to wash them down.
23 Aug 2012, 11:06 am
@Horings-84: shampies
how is this different to pdv being blamed for the departure of gary botha, joe pietersen. schalk britz, ruan pienaar, heinke etc?
23 Aug 2012, 11:06 am
@77 mactoogie
Kevin de Klerk displays signs of delusion when he says : “The other guys ran, just like we expected them to run, especially my ‘pal’ there in the Free State … he is known for that,” the Lions boss told this website.
He thinks Free State don’t realise they are the next team on the chopping block. Self-preservation
23 Aug 2012, 11:08 am
@Horings-87: That would be something! And with Sarel out of favour in Aus and back for the CC, who knows maybe he’ll see the light and come back, not that I have anything against the other okes (not a fan of de Bruyn tbh but Jacques Coetzee at Griquas is a real live wire) just imagine that back line:
9. Sarel
10. Goosen
11. Willie le Roux
12. Rob Ebersohn (usually a 13 I know but he has the handling to be a 12)
13. Sadie
14. Riaan Smit/Rhule
15. Taute (with Mustang Daniller on the bench)
In the last couple of years cheetahs have become my second team, I’d love to see them succeed without having to compromise their breed of rugby. It makes me vicariously proud (despite have=ing never even been to FS!) to see guys like Juan Smith and Heinrich Brussouw stay loyal to the franchise when they KNOW they could be millionaires over seas…
23 Aug 2012, 11:08 am
@MacToogie-105: cool man ja too much politics maybe but then look inward instead of blaming others for your issues.
thats what winners do.
23 Aug 2012, 11:09 am
@PissAnt-103: wasnt it a few months ago that Lions were 75 mill in debt over and above their assets (does this not include EPS?), if that is the case they would still have to start in the minus.
23 Aug 2012, 11:09 am
@Transformation-107: These Bulls pom pom chicks have got the ‘woe be me and my fellow Bulls fans, we are victims’ act down to Olympic qualifying standards. I expect them to be clocking Usain Bolt like times in the ’100m Boo Hoo everyone hates us and Heyneke” dash by November.
23 Aug 2012, 11:09 am
@kingcorn-91: “The Kings have had millions thrown at them by Saru only for them to piss it up the wall. I believe that if they used their investment correctly, they could be a competitive super rugby franchise within 5 years,”
really, how many millions has SARU thrown at them?
23 Aug 2012, 11:10 am
@Transformation-107: The only player that left because of PDiv is Pienaar and that is after PDiv selected him.
23 Aug 2012, 11:10 am
@PissAnt-103: Sounds great! They the bulls wouldnt need to sign so much youngsters because they would have an abundant pool of youngsters in the Gauteng region.
23 Aug 2012, 11:12 am
@viewer-108: i said it the other day, the way he talks about players and unions, players should stick around and unions musnt approach them just becau se they not playing in SR, WTF??? is the oke(union) stuck in the amateur era or what?
23 Aug 2012, 11:12 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-112: yep! i noticed how short-lived the honeymoon was between heyneke and the guppys yesterday when “captain” keegan was dropped for jacque “kardashian” potgieter
beeyoootiful
23 Aug 2012, 11:13 am
the lions reckon they have all their seniors contracted till 2013.
how the hell will they pay them?
with braai packs and brannewyn rond die vuur?
bs.
the lions better hope the circling unions dont feel murderous because if they do, the lions are toast.
for starters, the sharks will take rhodes, whitely and cilliers back.
23 Aug 2012, 11:14 am
@Sasuke-115: Ya to be honest this whole move will probably strengthen SA rugby… In a warped kind of way… Thing is, Kings are basing a lot of their strategy on the premise that they’ll be using an untapped source of talent, previously disadvantaged talent in the EC, so the majority of the current pool will be shared between 4 teams now instead of 5. Especially if you think how many Lions players came from Stellenbosch or KZN, it probably bodes well for WP and the Sharks, and the Cheetahs will become the go-to team for youngsters in search of game time. Silver lining I guess, but scant consolation for lions supporters.
23 Aug 2012, 11:14 am
@Transformation-113: was gonna ask the same thing lol, as far as i can see they are fighting like a wounded beast for the scraps the SA rugby community is throwing down to them
23 Aug 2012, 11:15 am
@Horings-114: yeah right, when pdv didn’t select joe pietersen and went with the likes of percy, connie, fransie most here blamed him…
23 Aug 2012, 11:15 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-112:
the funny thing is it’ll be the non bulls who will have rock solid morning glory hard ons for meyer when the boks go from success to succcess.
schizophrenic much…
23 Aug 2012, 11:16 am
@Sasuke-115: Try selling the idea to the Loftus faithful. They will not be happy to drive from Pretoria to the south of Johannesburg on the N1 on a Friday afternoon.
23 Aug 2012, 11:16 am
but can you imagine the shock some of the lions players will feel when they arent asked to do renovations on the coach’s house or are expected to actually train?
try that rebellion s h it at a properly run union and they will be loooking for contracts in namibia.
23 Aug 2012, 11:17 am
@rangerman-118: Don’t be surprised if SARU end up having to pay them out… Lions entered into those contracts based on thair reasonable belief that they would still be in SA rugby in 2013, including all the financial benefits that come with it… It’s fair to say that they wouldnt have entered into the contracts if they had known what was coming and SARU led them to believe that they would be taken care of, so in theory SARU induced them into committing themselves to make payments with misinformation… Sounds like a court case to me.
23 Aug 2012, 11:18 am
@rangerman-124: damn i want to star or favourite this post so hard.
23 Aug 2012, 11:18 am
why on earth would the bulls make any kind of deal with the lions regarding amalgamation?
as i see it, the bulls could set themselves up nicely with three feeder partner unions, the leopards, the pumas and the lions.
hectic but thats where the lions are headed right now.
23 Aug 2012, 11:19 am
@Transformation-117:
kim piotgieter
@rangerman-118:
braai packs en brannewyn
23 Aug 2012, 11:20 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-94:
WP weren’t relegated. The format for the S10 at that time had the top 3 provinces in the local NZ and SA domestic competition qualify. EP was one of the in the first year.
23 Aug 2012, 11:21 am
@Tarlo-119: The Lions should try setting up loan contract for their players to the Bulls and Cheetahs for the 2013 Super rugby season. The Lions will then get their players back for the relegation game and the Bulls and Cheetahs will add some depth. The players will also be able to do this without making a permanent move, especially if they get a loan contract in Pretoria.
23 Aug 2012, 11:22 am
@Tarlo-125: sounds like a stretch to me bud.
saru have the final say.
what the lions choose to do wrt contracting is up to them, not saru as they are an independantly operated franchise.
they will get cleaned up in court imo.
@MacToogie-126: haha. that lions union is a joke, has been for years and yet all this disbelief is flowing as though these clowns actually added value to our rugby.
how many lions have been boks over the last 5 years?
i feel for the supporters, not the management.
23 Aug 2012, 11:23 am
what intrigues me is why so many wp supporters are scrambling over the lions bargain basement sale of players?
haven’t we been told ad nauseum that wp hold the moral high ground and develop their own talent?
that the shark’s pedigree is lower than sharkshyte and they are a bunch of mercenaries?
that the nasty bulls are buying up all schoolboy talent?
hypocritical much?
23 Aug 2012, 11:25 am
@David-129: yes david, they were relegated.
when you play in a comp in one year and then are not admitted the next, its relegation.
paint it how you like buddy.
@Horings-130: they can try this but imo they cant pay the contracts presently and will defo not be able to next year.
so the other unions must just maar wait and there will be bargains aplenty to be had.
sa rugby as we know it has changed.
23 Aug 2012, 11:27 am
@charo-132: ag wp have been cannibalising other provinces for decades but they always hid it through doc cravens luurvely stellies scheme.
now that they cant do that they have been more open and their team are basically the biggest collection of mercs in sa today.
this is nothing new
23 Aug 2012, 11:27 am
@charo-132:
i have 2 points
WP ARE hypocrites and Sharks ARE mercenaries
23 Aug 2012, 11:29 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-122: The way I read things round here,many non-Bulls fans will have rock solid morning glory hard ons if Meyer fails, not if he succeeds.
“we told you so” is such a turnon for some.
I’m not wishing failure on The Meyer…….. just yet
23 Aug 2012, 11:30 am
So what is this article actually saying?
The Kings could have an extension, but wont get it. The Lions as a business could merge if they wanted to but nobody will want to merge with them…
So nothing really. The Lions and the Kings are still screwed. If this keeps on going the Lions will soon lose all of their decent players. And the Kings wont sign any decent players, not even aborting Lions players. The only silver lining is that the other franchises will gain a few quality players.
What a big F up. Why dont SARU grow some balls and give Greg Peters the finger and negotiate with the broadcasters on their own to change the format in 2014 to accomodate all 6 SA teams. This could be the best solution.
SA brings in most of the income so why not declare mutiny on SANZAR and take control? Theyve got more than enough leverage. Helll get Louis Luyt to do it if thats what it will take!
Louis Luyt Louis Luyt Louis Luyt HELP !
23 Aug 2012, 11:35 am
@Jeez-137: i dont think SARU would pull a mutinous move like that, but once re-negotiations take place for 2016 i have a feeling they will start using their viewership clout a bit more (this might just be me hoping)
23 Aug 2012, 11:35 am
@rangerman-124:
hehehe
any union buying lions players would do well to make them take a written 300 marks multiple choice test first.
‘baywatch, what is a 22 meter line?’
is it:
a. the length of washing line needed to hang all the team jerseys?
b. the regulation distance a backyard braai place can be placed from a neighbouring house?
c. the distance a lions exec needs to travel to get to the boardroom buffet.
or
d. none of the above.
23 Aug 2012, 11:36 am
@rangerman-134:
That’s not going to go down well with Corporal Cunteye.
23 Aug 2012, 11:39 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-136: I do not understand the logic of those people? Meyer certainly deserves his shout at being bok coach, why all the negativity? He hasn’t lost a game yet and has displayed a calm head and been prudent. Why are people anti Meyer? Because he is aligned to the Bulls?
23 Aug 2012, 11:40 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-139: hahaha, too many knocks to the head imo.
@gunther-140:
he will be spitting wasps at me soon i guess.
23 Aug 2012, 11:42 am
tony mckeever must be laughing his arse off at kevin de klerk.
nobody knows about the ineptitude and skullduggery of hoskins and kie better than mckeever
SA Rugby needs ‘a mind like a fox’
Loading …
This last Monday afternoon I had the absolute and distinct pleasure of being invited by BDO to listen to an hour and a half of Clem Sunter, going on about scenario planning, terrorist attacks, the collapse of the economy, the rise of the economy and the future prospects of South Africa.
If you haven’t attended one of his presentations, you would most likely have heard of, as I had done, that Clem Sunter is a past Chairman of Anglo American and has the usual large corporate big wig, with blah blah blah and yada yada yada resume to go with it.
Well on Monday, this man had my riveted attention. Not because he wrote to President George Bush predicting the terrorist attack in New York, three months in advance of 9-11; or that he made a presentation to FW de Klerk and the Cabinet in 1986 and visited Nelson Mandela in prison to discuss the future just before his release; or that he provided a scholarship to UCT Chemical Engineering for a 17-year-old black St. John’s student, who got straight As for matric, and then came first in the USA for having patented a rocket propellant superior to that developed by NASA, but because this man can laugh infectiously and talk sense at the same time.
Clem Sunter’s famous quote of: “It is better to be vaguely right, than precisely wrong” sent a chilling message, of how dogmatic and stubborn we South Africans can be, with our blinkered tunnel vision, which he describes as a “hedgehog” characteristic with a one goal only approach, which most corporate CEOs have.
Conversely, Clem advocates that one needs to have a mind characteristic of a fox that enables one to react to different market forces and influences with a variety of options and actions that one has partial or full control over.
His premise is simple: Business is a game and just like any other game, the point is to win.
First you need to decide what type of game (business) you’re playing, where the game is being played (the geographical footprint of the business) and who you’re playing against.
Next, you need to understand the rules of the game.
So let’s take rugby in South Africa. Their business is rugby as entertainment, the game is being played nationally, in the southern hemisphere and Europe and they are playing against the SANZAR, CAR and the Top Ten IRB listed rugby nations . List their modern day challenges that they need to overcome and then randomly list them and suggest possible scenarios. Of course skeptics will say there are too many to mention, so we will limit this to just the Top Ten (for starters) and rank them on a scale of one (for extremely bad) to 10 (for outstanding) rank in SA Rugby.
1. Growth of rugby
2. Transformation
3. Financial sustainability
4. Expansion of the Super 14
5. Expansion in the southern hemisphere
6. Bidding for the 2015 & 2019 Rugby World Cups
7. Competent administration
8. Accountability
9. Performance driven
10. Winning
Of these Top Ten criteria, SA Rugby can only rely on point 10. Winning as being above average and even that category is being decimated. One out of three wins in the end of year tour against Wales(8), Scotland(15) and England(22) will be rated as a failure, three out of three would be a good round off to the year and two out of three wins would again be above average.
In the meantime, SA Rugby’s relationships with key stakeholders are fragile to hostile, with:
1. Its nine smaller unions (Pumas, Griffons, Griquas, Falcons, Leopards, Border, EP, SWD and Boland)
2. Parliamentary Portfolio Committee of Sport
3. Minister of Sport
4. SANZAR partners New Zealand and Australia
5. Confederation of African Rugby
6. Sponsors
7. Broadcasters
8. Ireland
9. Argentina
10. South African rugby players
Almost without exception, SA Rugby’s modus operandi is reactive to events, rather than being proactive in which they can be “vaguely right, rather than precisely wrong” and the organisation is continually on the back foot having to defend itself or try and litigate its way out of conflict scenarios, with enormous financial liabilities looming.
In the process, SA Rugby as an organisation is being stigmatised and marginalised from mainstream sports and South Africans in a continuous process of attrition that has started to make the game appear dysfunctional.
Racism is rife and players are killed on and off the field in bouts of violence and thuggery that remain uncontrolled, in a state that is unlike anywhere in over 100 rugby playing nations around the world.
In the next three to four months there will be a series of momentous events that will rock rugby and put it in an apocolyptic state, necessitating an intervention to salvage the dignity of the game.
Every single one of the Top Ten Achilles’ Heels will trigger its own sequence of negative events that will compound itself with one or more of the other categories, resulting in an organisation spiralling out of control.
Virtually everything about SA Rugby’s future is uncertain and beyond the control of individual players in the Presidents Council, except that of Regan Hoskins, who as President of SA Rugby can bring about initiatives to halt this, as he has the leadership role and is involved in every single one of the above Top Ten forces that are about to change rugby’s environment.
For SA Rugby to stave off this meltdown, it has to introduce a model that integrates scenario planning of these Top Ten categories, into the mainstream process of strategic planning and decision-making in South Africa and abroad.
It will allow the executive teams of SA Rugby, SANZAR, Confederation of Rugby, IRB, sponsors and broadcasters and the 14 SARU Unions to test the resilience of their strategies and tactics against different scenarios and implement alternatives faster and more effectively.
The issue is of course: does SA Rugby acknowledge that there is an elephant in the room and do something about it?
If not, fasten your seatbelt and don your crash helmet as there is a roller coaster ride ahead that will make your head spin.
In a final message from Clem Sunter, the critical difference between hedgehogs and foxes is their attitude to strategy. Hedgehogs will stick to a strategy through thick and thin and never consider any deviations.
Foxes will stick to a strategy but regularly check out the environment to see whether the strategy should be amended in any way. It is his contention that while a hedgehog approach to strategy may have been successful in the past because a company’s environment was predictable and, up to a point, controllable, that condition no longer applies and a foxy approach is more suitable.
Strategies where you have limited power and certainty differ materially from strategies where you can create the certainty because you have the power.
It is really up to SA Rugby to create these certainties with an unabashed campaign of engagement and interaction, as opposed to isolation and hostility.
The responsibility falls squarely at Regan Hoskins’ feet and for him to be backed by the SA Rugby Presidents Council.
23 Aug 2012, 11:45 am
But I agree, realistically speaking the best solution for SA rugby would be if the Lions merge with the Bulls and become a brand new Rugby franchise with a new name and everything. The Gauteng Franchise= The Northern Plateaus or something. The NORTHERN SPITBRAAIERS. Or whatever.
Logistically, and regarding the regional fan base, its the best solution.
They can still compete separately in the Currie Cup, but play as one super rugby franchise. The Curry Cup keeps the Bulls and Lions’ history and pride intact. Its the CC that holds all the provincial traditions and history which SA rugby supporters hold so dear. So why not just form a brand new brand for the people up North.
Go Northern Spit Braaiersssssss! Then SA wil ALWAYS have at least 3 top teams in the super rugby comp.
23 Aug 2012, 11:46 am
@rangerman-133:
WP didn’t qualify in ’94, but they did in ’95. In which case so were Natal in ’95. The Bulls never qualified for the S10.
23 Aug 2012, 11:46 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-136:
mkay…
23 Aug 2012, 11:47 am
@PissAnt-103:
Why should the Bulls formalize this situation – through a franchise contract (thereby having to share revenue with the Lions) – when they could just have this de facto situation for free, as they currently do, with all the best players from the Lions union coming to the Bulls to be contracted or on loan in any case?
23 Aug 2012, 11:47 am
Transformation there is no way Im reading your essay
23 Aug 2012, 11:48 am
@David-145:
no, you mean the super 12.
this from wikipedia, david:
The 1996 Super 12 season was the inaugural season of the Super 12,
While the three Australian and five New Zealands teams remained the same as the 1996 season, the South African teams made changes. Transvaal, after the changes of the political landscape of South Africa, became known as the Gauteng Lions; while Western Province, after not making the top four of the 1996 Currie Cup, were replaced by Free State of Bloemfontein.
23 Aug 2012, 11:52 am
@Transformation-10: No Transie, Cilliers should come back and play with his brothers at the Sharks…..
Agree though Province and Bulls needs him more than we do, but would rather he came back home to the Sharks.
23 Aug 2012, 11:53 am
@David-145: professional era davey, professional era.
wp were relegated.
my word on this is final, you shouldnt bother trying to convince me further.
23 Aug 2012, 11:55 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-149: exactly, it was in a pro era too.
a bitter pill but one david must swallow finally after keeping it hidden in his cheek for all these years.
23 Aug 2012, 11:55 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-149:
You’re right. I was confusing the S10 and S12.
23 Aug 2012, 11:56 am
What will happen to the Lions players during the S15 next year? Must be a worry for them. Could they not be ‘on a loan basis’ to other franchises during the S15? Doubt Lions will want to release them from their contracts or they may have too, them being in financial difficulties.
23 Aug 2012, 11:56 am
@rangerman-151:
So you agree then, that since Natal played in 1993 and 1994 Super 10, but not in 1995, that they were relegated in 1995 as well?
23 Aug 2012, 11:56 am
Clem Sunter Chairman of Anglo ?
News to me.
23 Aug 2012, 11:57 am
@rangerman-151:
How could they be relegated if they didn’t qualify, in the first place?
23 Aug 2012, 11:58 am
Simple analysis:
Lions just go quietly into the night – who are Gauteng players and supporters going to flock to? Free gain for no expense by the Bulls.
If the Bulls merge with the Lions on the other hand, they still get this same gain of players and supporters (maybe adding 10% more than they currently have), but have to share like half their revenues with the Lions.
It would be stupid to even consider it.
Nope. Just let the Lions fade away, and move in on their territory independent of any alliance with them. No free handouts, sorry.
23 Aug 2012, 11:58 am
@Puma-150: but you okes didn’t think he was worth it and played john at tighthead!
23 Aug 2012, 11:58 am
@David-157:
23 Aug 2012, 11:59 am
@rangerman-152:
@David-153:
yip
them’s the breaks
23 Aug 2012, 11:59 am
@Transformation-143:
i will read up on clem sunter.
its all sensible stuff really.
23 Aug 2012, 11:59 am
damning evidence….next time we want to moan about the conference system and how aussie teams are
getting an unfair advantage we must remember that we came up with the idea
South African incompetence wins the day
THE MAUL: By JIM KAYES – Thursday, 30 October 2008
The South Africans wanted a finals system that saw the top finishing side from New Zealand, Australia
and South Africa host a playoff. Sanity has prevailed.
The decision to scrap plans for an extended Super 14 finals series next year is hardly surprising. After
all, South Africa were involved.
The South African Rugby Union is so incompetent it is still staggering that Jake White was able to keep
things together long enough for the Springboks to win last year’s World Cup.
But their demands over next year’s finals were ridiculous and sanity has prevailed with the expanded
series delayed till 2010 when a bigger competition will probably be played in conferences.
So what was the fuss? Well, fed up with their poor track record in the Super 14, the South Africans
had wanted a top-six finals system that saw the top finishing side from New Zealand, Australia and
South Africa host a playoff.
Their opponents would be the next best qualifying teams.
The blatant unfairness of such a system, which could have seen a team finish outside the top six but still
host a playoff, seemed lost on South Africa.
Perhaps given their history of discrimination such a stupid system is simply second nature.
23 Aug 2012, 12:00 pm
Most are missing the typical SARU ‘inference’… a year is a long time and they will probably scrap the entire relegation/promotion ‘promise’…
Laughable the innuendo, board-room deals, broken promises in RSA rugby!
23 Aug 2012, 12:01 pm
@Transformation-163: what the hell happened to the text!
23 Aug 2012, 12:02 pm
@Transformation-159: I know but think Cilliers is a ‘Shark at heart’ would like to see him back at the tank.
What will happen to all Lions players now? Feel for all of them really. Hope other franchises can use them on loan until their mess is sorted out in a years time.
23 Aug 2012, 12:03 pm
@Transformation-165:
dramatic pause.?..
23 Aug 2012, 12:03 pm
@Transformation-163:
I reject that article – which is from 2008 by the way. The Super 15 only kicked in in 2011. And closer to the implementation date, it was the AUSSIES who were moaning for compulsory inclusion in the play-offs, precisely because SA had had two teams in the final in 2009 and 2007, and had finalists in pretty much every other year for the last few years.
It was the Aussies who were losing out on money, and pushing for this stupid system. I will not accept any claims to the contrary.
(Smiley face.)
23 Aug 2012, 12:06 pm
@Tacitus-147:
If there is no formal super rugby partnership agreement, Lions can refuse their contracted players to play for the franchise.
23 Aug 2012, 12:07 pm
@WP-Forever-155: yes i do.
but that was amateur rugby bud.
since things went pro, its wps cross to bear
@David-157: what are you on about now david?
1997 wp played
1998 not invited
simples
23 Aug 2012, 12:07 pm
@PissAnt-169:
There ain’t gonna be any decent contracted players. And there ain’t gonna be any Lions union, in fact.
Just the Bulls in Pretoria, and an open free recruitment range in the greater Gauteng area.
23 Aug 2012, 12:08 pm
@Tacitus-168: I didnt know the Chiefs is a S.A team.
23 Aug 2012, 12:09 pm
@Transformation-163: duplicitous aussie.
before this ridiculous conference system they couldnt buy a semi final.
it was beyoooodiful watching genia whine when the reds got a hiding from the sharks.
23 Aug 2012, 12:11 pm
@PissAnt-169: they have to pay their players first PA.
why do you think the leopards and teh rest of the teeny tinies dont have squads littered with boks or potential boks?
no moola.
the lions are now joining the teenie tinies.
they shouldnt feel to bad, they are in good company with global brands like nokia.
23 Aug 2012, 12:12 pm
@Puma-166: to you and sharks_lover every player that has ever been in your set up is a “shark at heart”, do you also want jacque potgieter?
he is a sharks academy product too
23 Aug 2012, 12:12 pm
@rangerman-151: Funny old world this
WP were kak and they were relegated (Super rugby). Sharks were kak and they got promoted (Currie Cup) 
True story this.
23 Aug 2012, 12:14 pm
@Tacitus-168: you saw this bit mos? “But their demands over next year’s finals were ridiculous and sanity has prevailed with the expanded series delayed till 2010 when a bigger competition will probably be played in conferences.”
23 Aug 2012, 12:15 pm
@Transformation-175: no we dont lol.
but cilliers is a natal boy and loves the sharks.
he will probably be back sharpish.
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-176: haha, cc and superrugby.
one happened in an amateur era, the other in a pro era.
p.s. the sharks played in the CC final in 1989 (i think it was 1989?) so they cant have been that bad now can they?
23 Aug 2012, 12:15 pm
@Transformation-175: Is Bobby Skinstad a Shark at heart? Joel Strontsky?
23 Aug 2012, 12:17 pm
@Tacitus-171:
You forget Tac. ALL 14 unions make up SA rugby, and the president’s council…
The smaller unions (9 excluding the Lions
) carry majority votes.
SA Rugby will not let the Lions go quietly into the night, for the same reason we still have Border, Valke, SWD, etc…
ALL 14 unions gets a share of Super Rugby money (slice of the broadcast cake).
Stormers, Bulls, Sharks etc make additional money through participation which gives exposure to sponsors, fills stadiums, sells gear etc.
If the Bulls/Lions enter into a participation agreement THAT money you are concerned about (because of participation) will not be affected…
23 Aug 2012, 12:17 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-179: nah, they are yours.
like peter grant and joe p.
all from natal.
23 Aug 2012, 12:19 pm
@rangerman-178: That’s the cross you have to schlep old friend. Them was gifted a leg up into the ‘big time’. Which is why when you watch the 120 years of Currie Cup heroes advert on Supersport, you Sharks fellows close your left eyes, so that the ’1′ is not seen, but the 20 is
20 Years of Currie Cup heroes…..
23 Aug 2012, 12:19 pm
@rangerman-174:
If the relegation system is upheld, Lions will be back in 2014…
23 Aug 2012, 12:20 pm
@PissAnt-183: if they can hold on to their players that long PA.
a big if considering sponsors will jump ship after this.
its not like the lions have had one bad year after a string of glorious years now is it?
23 Aug 2012, 12:21 pm
@sharks_lover-53: Well that is good rumours then. Good players all of them.
Really do hope we get Cilliers back. Taute would be a bonus to have. Though Ludik has played brilliant for Sharks in the last part of the tourney.
23 Aug 2012, 12:22 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-179: look, these okes pick and choose who is a shark at heart, cilliers left the sharks for the same reason hougaard left wp but if you were to claim that tattoo frankie is a disa at heart these guppys would break out in hyena-like laughter…
double standards
23 Aug 2012, 12:22 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-182: haha, who cares, not me.
i simply enjoy the fact that in those 23 years, we have had the wood on wp.
as i alluded to earlier, do you honestly thinbk apple gives a toss that nokia were in the cellphone market longer?
23 Aug 2012, 12:22 pm
@rangerman-181: So Peter Grant and Joe P are not Sharks at heart either?
You know what, many of these okes only come down here to study initially, then end up staying. If KZN could pull finger with their tertiary institutions, and somehow get a team into the Varsity Cup MAIN competition (don’t be expecting hand outs again though), things might be different.
23 Aug 2012, 12:23 pm
@PissAnt-183: What will happen to their players during next years S15? Those players not gonna be happy just sitting about. What about them being allowed on a loan system to the other 4 franchises next year?
23 Aug 2012, 12:23 pm
@PissAnt-180: PA, are you managing the RuggaWorld twitter account? or one of the other blokes?
23 Aug 2012, 12:23 pm
@rangerman-184:
Most players contracted until end 2013. Two have escape clauses for Super Rugby participation.
It has been confirmed they will still get Super Rugby broadcasting money, and they have a meeting today with SARU to secure more support funding.
Paying their players is not so much the problem – having them play somewhere next year during Super Rugby is.
23 Aug 2012, 12:23 pm
@Transformation-186: hougie played senior representative rugby for wp?
really?
pat left because he wasnt getting gametime. like frans steyn, there isnt another union he would PREFER to play for than the sharks.
and so it may come to pass….
23 Aug 2012, 12:24 pm
@MacToogie-190:
No that would be me bud
23 Aug 2012, 12:25 pm
@Transformation-175: Well if he stayed with us he would not be playing ‘crash ball’ rugby hey! hehe.
23 Aug 2012, 12:26 pm
@PissAnt-193: good good, just wanted to check
23 Aug 2012, 12:27 pm
@rangerman-187: Close the left eye
And on a very serious note: What is the story with Varsity rugga in KZN? Is it as I have mentioned above, youngsters preferring to come and study down south for whatever reason? Or is it the standard of Tertiary education etc?
No joking, a serious question.
23 Aug 2012, 12:27 pm
An interesting stat on the SA rugby magazine facebook page
The Bok team in 1992 averaged 1.87 m and 97.4 kg per player.
The SA Schools team in 2012 averages 1.87 m and 97.6 kg per player.
23 Aug 2012, 12:29 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-188: the focus at natal has been on the academy and i believe that the varsity cup caught them napping.
the nru are putting more emphasis on the VC now and i think we will see natal varsities playing in the main comp within 5 years.
our club comp is very strong as you know (rovers having edged maties two years back) so rugby is doing fine in natal.
our schools rugby is also looking pretty healthy.
all in all, we are in a good space.
and we have beaten wp three games and counting. plus our u21′s whacked yours recently.
so good, mmmmm good.
@PissAnt-191: PA, seriously bud, a contract is a two way agreement. the lions are by all accounts in deep financial trouble so paying the players may not be as simple as you think.
i am not rejoicing over the demise of the lions but i do expect a complete cleanout of their boardroom.
23 Aug 2012, 12:29 pm
@Puma-185: Taute is a Shark at heart. Must be. He did holiday in KZN once.
23 Aug 2012, 12:30 pm
@PissAnt-180:
There is a clear financial benefit to being a sole Super Franchise union. Hence the Sharks being willing to pay out Border and EP a few years ago to get lone access to the pie.
The same applies to the Bulls. The answer is to have FEWER mouths sharing in the pie, not more.
23 Aug 2012, 12:35 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-199: lol
23 Aug 2012, 12:36 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-196: ja look, the NRU put all its efforts into the academy and this basically sunk competitive varsity rugby here imo.
talented kids chose the academy as it is seen as a fast track to professional rugby if you make the grade and it certainly does pump out boks (not saying they are boks because of the academy but more that a lot of potential boks have chosen the academy to get noticed).
by way of example, when i was at UKZN-PMB jaco van der westhuisen was a contracted 19 year old playing for our first team. his contract was paid by the NRU.
the VC took the NRU by surprise but i have seen a renewed emphasis on varsity rugby here in natal. There needs to be as the exposure players are getting in the VC makes it attractive to talented kids.
like anything, there are politics involved and clubs are nervous about a shift towards VC rugby so i think it will take time but the NRU will get it right, they are after all the shining example of professionalism in sa (well until the bulls started competing for the mantle).
23 Aug 2012, 12:37 pm
@Sasuke-197: that’s why Tac says Paul Jordaan is a dwarf
23 Aug 2012, 12:38 pm
@Tacitus-200: i really dont follow PA’s reasoning in this either.
why would the bulls want to share?
they have no incentive to.
23 Aug 2012, 12:42 pm
@rangerman-204:
Probably because his view is tinged by a “what’s best for both the Bulls and the Lions”, neutral type of attitude.
If, however, you look at it purely from what is the business case for the commercially driven Bulls Union, then the answer is a resounding “no”.
23 Aug 2012, 12:43 pm
@rangerman-198: I know Natal rugby is in a good space. I’m asking why so many kids come down here to study and play rugby (Varsities). Tradition?
23 Aug 2012, 12:44 pm
@Tacitus-205: agreed, i think PA is looking for a win win where there isnt one.
pure business decisions demand that the lions are fed on like a week old giraffe carcass.
23 Aug 2012, 12:44 pm
@rangerman-202: @The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-206: Sorry I see you answered me above. Apologies.
23 Aug 2012, 12:45 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-206: maybe.
maybe its the declining standards of other varsities.
this could turn into a political discussion but i am really not keen to go down that road today.
23 Aug 2012, 12:46 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-208: cheers.
23 Aug 2012, 12:50 pm
@Tacitus-200:
Sure, you play in one stadium alone and don’t have to travel to your partner’s stadiums for matches so you pay them for those rights.
Hardly breaking the bank and given what you gain, really not that tough a decisions.
Question is if Lions will accept this or give up on Super Rugby altogether (lose their license) not whether the Bulls want them.
23 Aug 2012, 12:51 pm
Pissant
Interesting that you say that Gauteng cannot support 2 franchises. It’s possible with competent administrators.
Here is my take on long term sustainability. FS 10 years at most. I look at test match and finals attendence to look at the health of a rugby population. They have a 40k stadium and cannot even get 28 thousand in to see the All Blacks. The rugby population there is shrinking and aging badly.
The guppies will die a slow death over the next 20 years, due to aging and shrinking. 11 thousand un-sold seats for the All Blacks and 13 thousand empties for the Poms tells the story.
The EC and WC will be just fine and Gauteng too. But in the end rugby is going to shrink to only 4 franchises.
23 Aug 2012, 12:52 pm
@rangerman-209: politics as usual
23 Aug 2012, 12:53 pm
@rangerman-207: @Tacitus-205:
Not that difficult gents.
Where the Gauteng region had two super rugby franchise licenses, they will now just have one.
Franchise owners can draw from the resources in their region (i.e. SA Rugby unions).
This is definitely not a win-win for the Lions – they will basically say goodbye to Super Rugby forever and become just a feeder union.
23 Aug 2012, 12:54 pm
@PissAnt-211:
My point is let them continue that struggle on their own. And all the best to them – I actually hope they get back into Super rugby within 1 year.
But let’s not get the Bulls involved in this whole saga. We do our thing, let them do theirs.
23 Aug 2012, 12:54 pm
@Transformation-213: no because i didnt go down that road :lol;
@RL-212: ah, so the sharks and cheetahs will dissapear and gauteng will have two franchises.
and then someone will give you a winning lotto ticket and a group of lesbians will decide to make an exception with you, red p u s sy, for one night only
wake up.
23 Aug 2012, 12:54 pm
@RL-212:
You will like this…
http://www.ruggaworld.com/2012/08/23/end-of-the-heineken-cup/
Lions might not even want a Super Rugby license in future.
23 Aug 2012, 12:55 pm
@PissAnt-214: yes, thats what i have been saying.
you are so smart PA
23 Aug 2012, 12:56 pm
@Tacitus-215:
I don’t know what you don’t get here.
This whole scenario will not cost the Bulls a cent. They will simply gain another feeder union for Super Rugby…
Lions just need to give up the fight for a Super Rugby license and play Currie Cup.
23 Aug 2012, 12:57 pm
@rangerman-218:
Haha.
23 Aug 2012, 12:58 pm
@Transformation-213: I don’t think politics has anything to do with why KZN kids come and study in CT, because ‘back in the day of the NP’ they were already filling UCT (especially) in numbers.
That’s why I asked if it is some sort of ‘tradition’, for KZN kids to come here for their tertiary education.
23 Aug 2012, 12:59 pm
@rangerman-216: “group of l.esbians” hahahahahaha
23 Aug 2012, 13:01 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-206:
Tradition has a lot to do with it.
Also the quality of local Varsities are not up to scratch.
Maritzburg Varsity and University of Natal are absolutely down the tubes.
No koshuis or res rugby comps to speak of anymore and thats pretty much where it starts for all the competitive Rugby Unis.
23 Aug 2012, 13:02 pm
@rangerman-216:
kick a wounded lion when he’s down…for shame sir…
23 Aug 2012, 13:03 pm
@Transformation-222: haha, i was going to go with a pair but there is an outside chance, however slim, that red p us sy could conquer that peak.
about as much chance as the kings winning the s15 next year
23 Aug 2012, 13:04 pm
Burp!
23 Aug 2012, 13:04 pm
@rangerman-216: come now rangergirl, you know very well that guppies are migrating in large number to Gauteng, CT and Perth – who is going to watch them in Mr Price park?
23 Aug 2012, 13:07 pm
@RL-227:
Huh?
Guppies migrating to Gauteng.
Why on earth would they want to do that?
The general popultion movement is actually exactly the opposite.
If you’d been to Umhlanga and Ballito recently and seen all the Vaalies taking up residence there you’d work that out quickly.
As Ranger says.
Wake Up.
23 Aug 2012, 13:08 pm
@rangerman-225:
lots of kisising and fondling and were about to jump into bed when a mutual girlfriend of theirs came by. the chicks freaked out and that was the end of that, never came close again.
true, true
i came within a whisker of pulling it off once. my gf and her housemate, the three of us got drunk and naughty one night
i guess three was company but four a crowd.
23 Aug 2012, 13:08 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-224: haha, that twerp deserves it.
ask him to sing you his natal sharks song
he will get a whacking from me every time he plays stupid.
@John Galt-223: @Transformation-222: ja maybe politics wasnt the right choice of words, rather demographics.
UKZN natal, Westville and PMB are now attended mainly by black students who do not see rugby as an option.
the afrikaans varsities still have large numbers of black and coloured students that choose rugby and some mainly black varsities like UPE have black feeder pops that also choose rugby.
thats the reason i suppose, talented rugby players want to attend a varsity where rugby is an option.
23 Aug 2012, 13:11 pm
@John Galt-228: pensioners, nuff said.
23 Aug 2012, 13:12 pm
@RL-227: bud you need to pull yer head out yer a s s.
are you manie reyneke?
durbs is being flooded by immigrants from the vaal. ballito is virtually a vaalie mini-state.
you denigrate the sharks attendance figures but ignore the three mental halfwits and their dog who pitch up at lions games?
wake up.
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-229:
you shouldve locked the door and told the newcomer to chaila haha.
23 Aug 2012, 13:13 pm
People in here just don’t seem to get it!
There is this continuous cry for the Lions, and then other side the fence the Kings.
Firstly the right thing would have been SARU setting this up from the start, this was not the case thus of course the promises that were made.
Now both sides can argue certain facts to suit their cause but fact remains that both teams in reality should be involved in SR, not just the one or the other.
It is not like this problem suddenly arose and showed its face, but has always been there and fact remains that all unions in SA should be involved in SR some way or the other, which right now is not the case.
Now the Problem I have is not the fact the Lions have been booted out or the Kings put into SR, The lions have dirty laundry as do the Kings, and probably every union but the way it is being done and the effect it will have on people’s lives.
Here my sympathy of course go to the Lions as the people effected losing jobs etc is huge, In the case of the kings you can’t lose what you don’t have, but in the same time deserve to have.
All this goes back to SARU being incompetent and callous in how they do things without a care of afterthought as to the mayhem they are causing, and what makes it worse is that the Lions Union knew this was coming and seems totally unprepared for it.
Now I remember chatting with a few in here around 5 years ago like PA and talking about how each one of us thought the problem of bringing in the Kings could be solved, of course we all felt the Kings were not up to standard and that a system should be worked out to lift their standard and bring them in as a union, and not as Eastern Province, South Western Districts, BBD’s but as a team that could grow.
Surely this is what SARU should have been thinking? Is how to bring them in without causing an international problem which is the case now as clearly seen on Reunion on DSTV. They can only shake their heads in disbelief at our stupidity.
I had suggested to PA at the time that surely play out of the main City as a union being PE, also getting the best group of players from that region. Then a plan should have been made to enforce a space for them to at least play CC as a unit to grow into the higher levels.
Yes of course there would be logistical problems as well as financial etc, nut with planning and getting the right sponsors etc that could have been overcome, instead we have a king’s team doing ok in the Vodacom cup as a team.
Problem here is they have no idea as to what to expect, they Assume they know and what happens in the boardroom does not happen on the field of play.
I have no doubt the same team being the Lions that have now been kicked out will beat the Kings by a massive margin, yet they themselves are the whipping boys of the Super 15. How does this make the Kings better? Or prepare them for next year? Once again I am not saying the Kings should not be in SR “They Should and are”.
The Problem no matter from which side one looks at it, goes back to poor planning from SARU and even I said yesterday that the Lions made their own bed and should lie in it, But in hindsight when one thinks carefully, and not just jabber away a negative at either team, there are lives at stake within a few Unions, So many families are going to be hurt by SARU and their inability to manage our Unions effectively and honestly.
Instead we have finger pointing, insults and joyous backslapping at the expense of others, and no doubt the Kings will be the laughing stock in SR because SARU who after all is the father figure of all our Unions, but has failed them miserably
Actually there is no winner here!
23 Aug 2012, 13:13 pm
@RL-231: haha, at least those pensioners will now be forced to support the sharks properly.
btw, wtf would we move to gauteng for?
23 Aug 2012, 13:16 pm
@rangerman-232: sad delusional guppy – explain then why each year fewer and fewer guppies picth up to watch test rugby? It is a downward trend for years and years. Just stating the obvious.
23 Aug 2012, 13:18 pm
@PissAnt-219:
What do the Lions gain out of it? Because that would then answer the question: “What do the Bulls lose out of it.”
It’s a zero sum game.
23 Aug 2012, 13:18 pm
ok, i am out.
red pu ss y, i am sorry for the true lions supporters like yourself.
but wake up ok?
hanging your hope on a 20 year demise of other unions will see you behaving like that94 yr old on the sidelines at griquas games, dancing like Madiba with only the latest facelift keeping the smile on your face.
i repeat, wake up.
23 Aug 2012, 13:20 pm
@PissAnt-183: Yes they will PA but at what cost??? again
23 Aug 2012, 13:21 pm
Some interesting comments from both sides. What is galling however is that the Kings have not earned this right. Other sides like Griquas have earned a right to play Currie Cup. Can anyone explain why the Kings deserve a chance more than the Griquas?
The consensus view on this matter on SA Rugby.com where I post is against the Kings with only a few dissenting views. I suspect this is the rugby publics majority view by some way although one cant prove this.
All this divisive argument would not have happened if the Kings had simply worked at getting their house in order and got promotion on merit to the Currie Cup. Very few can respect their approach to all this. The merit principle has been ignored and, as always, this has caused a furore.
23 Aug 2012, 13:24 pm
@Tacitus-236:
They don’t go bankrupt. Consider Griquas/Cheetahs.
Cheetahs is the major stakeholder or senior partner. However, during Super Rugby they draw on Griquas resources quite extensively and it is working for them. In a way they solve what would otherwise have been a real problem in depth (which is a problem in any event but thats another story).
It serves the Cheetahs Super Rugby franchise to have a strong Griquas team playing in the top division of the Currie Cup. Players are better conditioned, better coached, paid well enough (sponsors will support teams in CC premier division because of exposure) – more importantly, the Cheetahs Rugby Union don’t have to contract all those players – Griquas does…
Lions simply lose a Super Rugby license.
23 Aug 2012, 13:29 pm
@PissAnt-240:
Why don’t they go bankrupt? Are they getting money from this deal that they otherwise would not? If so, then that is money that the Bulls are now losing.
23 Aug 2012, 13:49 pm
@Tacitus-241:
No, they will continue to get Super Rugby broadcast money as all 14 unions do (even the Kings were getting it).
Their problem is they cannot seemingly financially sustain operating a Super Rugby franchise license.
Simply put, they need to downsize – become a feeder union.
23 Aug 2012, 13:51 pm
@PissAnt-217: interesting news. So the poms and frogs are dumping the celtic bloodsuckers – in 2 years time. Superrugby ends in 3 years so timing not ideal.
Don’t expect that Kortbroek Jurie Roux to be negotiating with them for the inclusion of 6 SA teams into that new competition – he is rather doff.
23 Aug 2012, 13:54 pm
@RL-243:
Well you will be pleased to know some SA folks might already have made contact with the boys that wants to break away
23 Aug 2012, 13:59 pm
RL jy moet maar die Lions in die Vodacom Cup kyk boet … weet jy hoekom? want die KINGS speel in hulle plek SUPER RUGBY! ohh … its trueeeee!!!
23 Aug 2012, 13:59 pm
@PissAnt-244: Rupert? Oberhozer? Not SARU planks guaranteed.
23 Aug 2012, 14:01 pm
@grant100-245: LOL @ smelly toothless one – you win now pisssoff.
23 Aug 2012, 14:01 pm
@PissAnt-244:
Yes they have and it involved a few unions 
23 Aug 2012, 14:02 pm
@grant100-245:
23 Aug 2012, 14:03 pm
@PissAnt-242:
Look, nevermind. It seems you’re dancing around my direct questions here.
Fact is, the Pumas and Leopards were able to sue the Lions for unpayed Super Rugby Franchise payments.
Fact is, no one was able to sue the Sharks for such money, because the Sharks don’t have any feeder unions.
Therefore, there must be some payment that a feeder union gains from its parent union, in exchange for providing them with players.
It is this payment that will benefit the Lions, and cost the Bulls.
If the Bulls therefore did not have the Lions as a feeder, they would not have to make this payment.
Hence, if this payment is R2m, as it was in the case of the Pumas/Lions dispute, that’s R2m that the Bulls no longer have, but which the Lions now have.
Hence, it benefits the Lions to the detriment of the Bulls.
23 Aug 2012, 14:04 pm
@PissAnt-242:
Look, nevermind. It seems you’re dancing around my direct questions here.
Fact is, the Pumas and Leopards were able to sue the Lions for unpayed Super Rugby Franchise payments.
Fact is, no one was able to sue the Sharks for such money, because the Sharks don’t have any feeder unions.
Therefore, there must be some payment that a feeder union gains from its parent union, in exchange for providing them with players.
It is this payment that will benefit the Lions, and cost the Bulls.
If the Bulls therefore did not have the Lions as a feeder, they would not have to make this payment.
Hence, if this payment is R2m, as it was in the case of the Pumas/Lions dispute, that’s R2m that the Bulls no longer have, but which the Lions now have.
Hence, it benefits the Lions to the detriment of the Bulls.
23 Aug 2012, 14:19 pm
@RL-246:
Can’t say much yet.
@Tacitus-250:
Franchise participation agreements involves money – simple fact. Pumas and Leopards were grouped with Lions (main franchise holder) under such an agreement.
The benefits of franchise partners is the resources those partners provide at a cost of around R500K per year (was the amount I read between Lions and their partners).
The Bulls, or any other of the top 4 unions can only realistically contract 35 to 40 senior players (if that many). Super Rugby teams are already asking for official squads to be extended to 35 and more – realistically, most Super Rugby coaches believe they need an extended squad of around 45 players.
Player contracts make up over 70% of any union’s expenses.
So if you are looking for a benefit to your Bulls, that is the obvious one. Your resource base can have over 60 professional players all playing premier division Currie Cup rugby (Lions and Blue Bulls). In other words, you have access to 30 additional players without having to contract them fulltime – in fact, your cost is total of R500K a year (if Lions example is used).
Now you want to go and close the Lions doors and contract 3 to 5 players from them at over R1-mil a year each?
All this while the Lions will continue to identify talent in their schooling system and clubs systems which will ultimately benefit the franchise at no cost to the Bulls?
You don’t have to go to the Cape to raid talent anymore, they will be on your doorstep, available.
The maths seem simple from where I sit.
23 Aug 2012, 14:21 pm
@Tacitus-251:
SARU needs to determine who the regions are, not the major unions, as they determine who the Franchises are. In the Lions case, the Pumas and Leopards would also need to be accomodated somewhere. The Pumas could be assigned to the Sharks, say. It was ridiculous in the first place for SARU to allow the Sharks to go it alone, whilst other provinces were combined in a franchise.
When the Franchises come up for renewal, SARU needs to stipulate the regional divisions and groupings as they do in NZ. After all, the S14 was designed to improve SA rugby and the national team, not as a milk cow for a few major unions.
23 Aug 2012, 14:23 pm
@PissAnt-252: you have put it lay man’s terms, if Tac doesn’t get it at this point, bow out gracefully
23 Aug 2012, 14:26 pm
@David-253:
And what David said.
23 Aug 2012, 14:27 pm
@PissAnt-252:
But then the credit doesn’t go to just the Blue Bulls rugby union anymore, should we win the damn thing like we’ve done 3 times before. Not acceptable.
The Sharks do it alone. And we are the Bulls. Not some two bit amalgamated team. We go it alone.
Plus, your model doesn’t really add up. I highly doubt the Lions are going to keep 20 Super Rugby quality contracted players on their books in exchange for only R500k from the Bulls.
23 Aug 2012, 14:29 pm
@Transformation-254:
Haha – yeah that was my last attempt…
23 Aug 2012, 14:30 pm
@David-253: if that decision has to be ratified by Exco or Presidents Council i am not convinced it will see the light of day even when the franchise licences come up for renewal.
23 Aug 2012, 14:30 pm
@Tacitus-256:
No matter what you believe – there is a massive difference between a union, and a Super Rugby franchise.
23 Aug 2012, 14:32 pm
@PissAnt-255: Disagree with one thing DAvid say and that is that S14 was NOT designed to improve SA rugby and the national team, that may be 1 of the consequences but that it is equally appropriate to our Anzac cousins.
23 Aug 2012, 14:34 pm
@PissAnt-259:
Explain that in the Sharks context.
23 Aug 2012, 14:37 pm
@Tacitus-256:
Why do you think players go to Kimberly? Scenery?
Nope.
They play CC 1st division and is in contention for Super Rugby game time too.
The Blue Bulls union can only contract, and therefore attract so many rugby players.
If players want to play for the Bulls Super Rugby franchise do you think they care if they are contracted to the Blue Bulls or Golden Lions?
Rugby is a business – the Bulls franchise can almost double their resources without spending much money.
I also don’t understand your ‘going at it alone’ stance.
On the one hand you are happy to contract Lions players to play for the Bulls franchise, but when the same players are offered to you almost 3 of charge you say no?
Please do not go into rugby administration.
23 Aug 2012, 14:39 pm
@PissAnt-259: Assuming that the amount of S14 revenue allocated to each franchise is equal then a Union such as TVL or WP is disadvantaged in comparison to the Bulls or Sharks if they have to pay sums of money to the other unions joined to them irrespective of the amount of players they make use of. However if as you imply the franchises only pay based on the number of players they contract then it could be a lot cheaper than contracting the players directly. I think Tacitus might be thinking of the former situation i.e you pay regardless.
23 Aug 2012, 14:39 pm
@Tacitus-256:
You’d only lose half, as the Blue Bulls only own half of the Bulls franchise, if that. In fact I wonder just how much the Blue Bulls actually earn from the Franchise out of its profits once they’re divided between SAIL and Limpopo.
23 Aug 2012, 14:40 pm
@bananaboy-260:
They moved from the union setup to franchise (regional) setup in the late 90′s to give more players exposure to Super Rugby and the market.
The idea was right, the execution pathetic.
@Tacitus-261:
Franchise – regional. Sharks – region: Kwa-Zulu Natal.
23 Aug 2012, 14:41 pm
@PissAnt-262:
Your move brings us one step closer to a detachment of players from specific union based franchises, and one step closer to a free-er flow of players between franchises.
The next step will be central contracting and an erosion of the seperate identity of the big 3 franchises.
The solution is the opposite. The Bulls step up their marketing in the Gauteng region and snap up thousands of disenchanted Lions fans. This ups their supporter numbers, increases their sponsorhip and sales income as a result, and allows them to contract the players they need directly.
23 Aug 2012, 14:43 pm
@bananaboy-260:
If you remember, SA Rugby (Pty) Ltd was responsible for the Boks and Super Rugby Franchises (The Elite Players) until SARU amalgamated it due to tax reasons. The S14 was seen as an integral part of the Bok system.
23 Aug 2012, 14:43 pm
@David-264:
Doesn’t matter. The identity of the Super Rugby “Bulls” has been fully merged with that of the Currie Cup “Blue Bulls”.
Hence, on the website, when we list all of the achievements of the brand, we list the Super 14 title, the Currie Cup title, the U21 title, etc, despite the fact that the Blue Bulls are techincally different from the Bulls.
For branding purposes, the merging and integration of the two brands is vital.
23 Aug 2012, 14:48 pm
@bananaboy-263:
I think SARU also compensates a Union about R250,000 p.a. for each player contracted by a franchise. This is because the Franchise system and S14/15 is owned by SARU.
23 Aug 2012, 14:48 pm
Coetzee warns Boks not to call up Vermeulen
Craig Ray | 23 August, 2012 06:300 Comments
WESTERN Province No8 Duane Vermeulen is not ready to play for the Springboks just yet, according to coach Allister Coetzee, even though the national selectors are keeping a keen eye on the bruising loose forward.
.”He was only supposed to play 30 minutes last week but I pushed it a bit, much to the irritation of the medical staff,” Coetzee said.
“The message I have for the Bok selectors is that Duane has played 40 minutes of rugby and that is a positive factor, but he is definitely not where he needs to be at Currie Cup level.
“So it follows that if his fitness isn’t quite right at this level, he’s definitely not ready for international rugby yet”
23 Aug 2012, 14:48 pm
@bananaboy-263:
The Sharks somehow convinced SA Rugby and EP years back that they will ‘buy’ that right (SA Rugby has given the smaller, feeder unions).
So the EP management at the time sold their soul for 30 pieces of silver – clever by the Sharks actually who knew the long term benefit.
Fact is, SA Rugby should not have allowed it as it goes against the idea of creating franchises in the first place.
Of course, because we had two strong unions in Gauteng in the 90′s (Blue Bulls and Golden Lions), politics ensured that franchise licenses went to those who made the biggest noise. Gauteng should only ever have received one license, but petty politics and rivalries (and fans like Tac) refused to see the difference between a regional franchise system, and a provincial qualification system.
Irony for me from all this is, these provincial rivalries and entitlement comes from decades of playing in the Currie Cup – so let them continue in the Currie Cup – Super Rugby is something completely different.
23 Aug 2012, 14:51 pm
@Tacitus-268:
That’s your problem, if the BBs took that route. It certainly has no legal status as the Franchise is a separate legal entity to the non profit union.
23 Aug 2012, 14:53 pm
@PissAnt-271:
Also remember that it was Luyt who drew up the franchises.
23 Aug 2012, 14:53 pm
@Transformation-270: I say wait until the Boks last two games. Starting the 29 September 2012.
That will give him 5 currie cup games to get to full fitness.
Same for Goosen.
23 Aug 2012, 14:55 pm
@Tacitus-266:
Lions fans will continue to support the Lions team Tac. Just like you will always support the Blue Bulls.
So you want to say to Lions fans; ‘Screw you, your union of 100 years is gone, forget all that happened in that time and join the Blue army?’
What if this came about in 2001 and 2002 and the roles were reversed? Would you have joined the red army?
Yours, and 99% of rugby supporters in this country formed your affiliation to your union through Currie Cup, let that continue.
23 Aug 2012, 14:56 pm
@David-273:
Haha! So much of irony.
23 Aug 2012, 14:56 pm
@PissAnt-271:
Aha! Gotcha!
In that post you yourself admit that the Sharks saw the “long term benefit” in owning the rights themselves rather than having to share with some feeder unions.
I rest my case.
23 Aug 2012, 14:57 pm
@Transformation-270:
So Allister can ‘push’ him but not the Boks?
WTF?
23 Aug 2012, 14:58 pm
@Tacitus-277:
And I also quite clearly state it should never have been allowed.
We either have a franchise system, or a union based qualification system.
23 Aug 2012, 15:00 pm
@PissAnt-279:
No but that’s a totally different argument. You are arguing that from an SA point of view (as you perceive it) it should not have been allowed.
I’m purely arguing from what is “the greatest benefit to the Bulls” point of view.
Hence, from the Bulls point of view, it doesn’t make sense to give up the “long term benefits” of the franchise ownership by diluting it with the addition of additional feeder unions (the Lions).
23 Aug 2012, 15:02 pm
@PissAnt-278: It will be detrimental if he plays for the boks before he is ready is all that Alister is saying.
23 Aug 2012, 15:04 pm
@Tacitus-277:
The 5 franchises from the inception of the idea should have been Gauteng, Western Cape, Kwa-Zulu Natal, Eastern Cape and Central Districts.
It is motivated in player numbers (representation) and size of geographical area.
23 Aug 2012, 15:06 pm
@PissAnt-282:
That’s irrelevent. If your departure point is to maximise the value for the Bulls – as it was for the Sharks when they achieved that deal – then the addition of another feeder union to the Bulls region is not a goal worth pursuing.
Instead, you should be trying to find ways to shed the existing feeders you are lumped with.
23 Aug 2012, 15:07 pm
@Tacitus-280:
There was much more to the Sharks scenario. Logistically it made no sense as PE is too far away and from a resource point of view it was also flawed.
It is why the Cats failed.
Situation in Gauteng rather different.
23 Aug 2012, 15:11 pm
@PissAnt-284:
Well, according to my understanding, the feeders initially had the right to stage various home games at their stadiums – like Free State has to do with Kimberly every now and then.
And I believe that the big unions eventually started paying them off to give up this right.
So in the case of the Sharks and PE, PE would have had the right to host a Super Rugby game, and the Lions would no doubt be entitled to something similar in any deal with the Bulls.
This is directly to the deteriment of the Bulls.
The point is, we are building to become the Manchester United of Rugby – a goal that the Stormers are apparently now copying, but one which has been part of our vision for many years now.
Man U and Man City don’t work together in building the Man U brand. Neither can the Bulls and the Lions.
23 Aug 2012, 15:11 pm
@PissAnt-271:
so you’re saying this whole sorry kings / lions saga is essentially the fault of the the sharks? wow
its like the old ‘for want of a nail’ proverb. an unexpected and unseen future butterfly / chaotic effect.
23 Aug 2012, 15:12 pm
@Tacitus-283: @PissAnt-284: What it means in simple english??
The Sharks boys are smart 
23 Aug 2012, 15:12 pm
oh fok this is boring, Tac would rather have the bulls (read afrikaner bastion in his eyes) thrive and dominate over any and EVERY other rugby interest in SA…pffttt
23 Aug 2012, 15:12 pm
@Tacitus-283:
What point of the franchise system is not properly implemented in SA Rugby don’t you quite get?
My departure point is for the benefit of SA RUGBY without any union losing its identity or history.
Is this that foreign to you?
23 Aug 2012, 15:13 pm
@sharks_lover-287:
Yes, and although Pissant acknowledges they were smart, he is apparently denying that the Bulls would be smart to try and follow a similar route.
Very strange.
23 Aug 2012, 15:13 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-286: nope, Sharks just saw this coming one day, knew and understood to politics of things to come
23 Aug 2012, 15:13 pm
@David-273:
haha
karmic irony
so in fact it is the lions themselves who are responsible for the kings saga..?..
that or the sharks.
23 Aug 2012, 15:15 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-286:
Okay just how the hell did you come to that?
@Tacitus-285:
See my previous post. We are seeking different solutions. Yours insular to a single union, mine for SA Rugby.
Pointless discussion.
23 Aug 2012, 15:15 pm
@PissAnt-289:
But then we’re wasting our time debating this, because your initial contention was that it would be to the Bulls benefit to rope in the Lions.
And I”m only arguing in that context. I’m not talking at all about what’s best for SA rugby. That’s another debate entirely.
What I am saying is that the Bulls should not be required to sacrifice R1, even it it benefits SA Rugby R100m .
Let them sort out their own mess, rather than punishing those who are achieving success despite the train wreck that is SARU.
23 Aug 2012, 15:15 pm
@Tacitus-290:
Julius Malema is smart Tac, but he is still a doos.
23 Aug 2012, 15:16 pm
@Tacitus-280: the Bulls are already diluted to the Falcons – and when the Lions dump the Puma’s and Leopards from their backs it may be the Bulls that will have to split the pie between 3 orphan children.
23 Aug 2012, 15:17 pm
@Tacitus-285: Man U and Man City are not “franchises” they are clubs, they English FA do not OWN the licence for either to participate in the Barclays premiership.
23 Aug 2012, 15:17 pm
@sharks_lover-291:
agents
23 Aug 2012, 15:20 pm
I think we should do away with the names “Lions”, “Bulls”, “Cheetahs” and “Sharks” in Super rugby.
Reason – to curtail the provincialist mindset of the average supporter.
Benefit – SA Rugby becoming stronger.
23 Aug 2012, 15:21 pm
@willievz-299:
Con – No one will care two hoots about the competition.
23 Aug 2012, 15:22 pm
@Tacitus-294:
It is a SA Rugby mess, and Super Rugby is owned by SA Rugby, not the franchises.
SA Rugby will decide how the Lions fit into Super Rugby in future – and any decision in that manner will affect the Bulls, my contention from the start was that the Bulls would benefit more if the Lions simply become a feeder union and give up the mission to get up there again.
Lions being content with a single franchise in Gauteng will benefit the Bulls as they currently own one already.
Now for me to motivate this all over again will be repeat of the last 50 posts.
23 Aug 2012, 15:23 pm
@Tacitus-300: Maybe you won’t.
But I will.
23 Aug 2012, 15:24 pm
@willievz-302:
As will I.
23 Aug 2012, 15:24 pm
But now I have to be gone.
Falling behind with stuff here.
Chat later, thanks for the chat Tac
23 Aug 2012, 15:29 pm
@Transformation-288:
doesn’t it work for canterbury and nz rugby?
@PissAnt-293:
if the sharks had not ‘bought’ ep and border out of their franchise (feeder system) agreement, kept up the hush money payments and gave the odd player a run in super rugby then its wholly likely there would not have been a kings super rugby issue today, no?
23 Aug 2012, 15:29 pm
@PissAnt-301:
Hmm. This feels so familiar, somehow. I feel a sense of deja vu in that your arguments here follows a very similar trend to your defense of PDivvy over the last 4 years.
Basically, just totally ignoring the utterly irrefutable points made by the guy disagreeing with you, and focusing on the issues that you feel should be considered instead.
The gulf is so wide, that the issues which to the other guy is a dealbreaker (autonomy and maximum financial benefit to the Bulls), (P Divvy clearly not having a clue what’s going on on the field of play), are brushed off and the focus is instead shifted to wishy washy points such as:
(the nature of the franchise agreement – as if that is set in stone, and as if some type of shake up similar to what’s happening now with the Heineken Cup is not possible)
or (PDivvy having a keen love for the game and simply having articulation issues etc.)
We just see these things completely differently.
As far as the franchise story is concerned. Let’s see if it survives another 10 years.
A breakaway by some of the big unions can not be excluded from possibility, and I for one would be in favour of it if it broke the grip that the small unions have on the voting process in SARU.
23 Aug 2012, 15:30 pm
@willievz-299:
I agree. The franchises should be treated as the separate legal entities they are.
23 Aug 2012, 15:34 pm
Let’s say the Bulls, Sharks and WP form a breakaway competition with some rebel northern Hemisphere clubs in a few years time.
What’s the viewership of that competition going to be compared to what’s left of the Super Rugby tournament?
We need to break the backs of the smaller unions, so they can stop outvoting unions that have 10 times their budgets, and account for 20 times their combined supporter numbers.
The tail is wagging the dog in SA rugby.
23 Aug 2012, 15:36 pm
@Tacitus-300: Not necesarily, Stormers was a totally new concept a couple of years ago, but with the right marketing became popular very fast.
23 Aug 2012, 15:37 pm
@TooMuchRugby-309:
Hmm, and which geographical area do the Stormers represent? How many non WP supporters support the Stormers?
23 Aug 2012, 15:38 pm
@PissAnt-301:
remember, this all come full circle wrt sa rugby and the franchises.
sarugby might own super rugby but it in turn is a compromise of the complex political voting of 14 unions plus one president.
as much as sa rugby might want to do things to super rugby which would actually benefit the franchises and sa rugby as a whole, the franchises (dominant partners and their feeder unions) actually make sa rugby do things to super rugby which benefits themselves, but in a narrower sense.
23 Aug 2012, 15:38 pm
@willievz-299: Won’t help in the case of carnival ornaments like this Taccy fellow. He is at war mate, the Bulls his army, Wynie Strydom the drummer boy, and ‘Bulls at heart’ Heyneke Meyer his ‘de la rey’.
He be having it
23 Aug 2012, 15:44 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-305: are canterbury the only union in their franchise?
23 Aug 2012, 15:48 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-305:
I think that the Sharks only paid for the rights to host all the games at KP initially, as EP and Border were in financial straits and needed the money. EP and Border were also pissed off by the KZN Sharks union poaching their top franchise players and were joined by SWD, who also felt screwed by WP, in applying for the 5th franchise when it came available.
23 Aug 2012, 15:50 pm
Although I don’t appreciate Tac’s misguided Bulls superiority complex, I must agree that the franchise/regional system is not doing us any good, particularly because of the abuse of the system by unions such as the Bulls and Sharks and also as he pointed out because of the unbalanced voting power of the smaller unions.
If we can go back to every union functioning as a seperate entity, we may also be able to fabricate a much better Super Rugby conference system, where the CC can act as the local derby part of the Super Rugby and only the top teams go on to play against the ANZAC sides.
Then we may also be rid of monsters like the Stormers and bring back good old WP.
23 Aug 2012, 15:51 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-305: i’m sure the fact that israel dagg & zac guilford are actually Hawkes Bay players will NEVER detract to any achievements attained by the Crusaders franchise.
the Highlanders franchise is predominantly made out of Southland and Otago players, the rivalry between these two in the ITM Cup and Ranfurly Shield is still healthy. any wins or achievements are not “claimed” for either one.
isolation has its drawbacks…
“Perhaps given their history of discrimination such a stupid system is simply second nature.” – jim kayes
23 Aug 2012, 15:52 pm
@Transformation-313:
no, but are the blue bulls the only union in theirs?
and thats my point.
for all intents and purposes they are.
23 Aug 2012, 15:54 pm
@Tacitus-308: the rich must get richer and the poor, poorer and silent
23 Aug 2012, 15:56 pm
@Tacitus-310: The Stormers are just as guilty in abusing the regional franchise system.
What I meant is that WP fans got used to Stormers, maybe the Blue Bulls fans would get used to be called the Red Bulls, or maybe that’s pushing it.
Actually just an academic exercise since I am not in favor of the regional franchise systems and advocate the unions as seperate entities.
Bring back WP
23 Aug 2012, 15:58 pm
@TooMuchRugby-319: WP of Stormers?? hulle speel ewe kak
23 Aug 2012, 15:58 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-312:
Haha! Wynie Strydom is more like the Kings fool!
23 Aug 2012, 16:00 pm
@sharks_lover-320:
Dit maak seer, maar dis waar
23 Aug 2012, 16:00 pm
@TooMuchRugby-319:
Agree that the unions should return.
What’s wrong with a club based system like in Europe, where the top clubs participate in the Heineken cup?
Who said we need to be married to the a stupid franchise system that doesn’t fit the SA environment?
23 Aug 2012, 16:01 pm
@Transformation-316: I do not think you can use the clubs in NZ’s NPC and compare it with our situation. If these clubs are so rich in history and the rivalry so strong, why will there be more people at an Affies Grey game than at an NPC final?
23 Aug 2012, 16:02 pm
@TooMuchRugby-322: Sorry man!
23 Aug 2012, 16:02 pm
@sharks_lover-320: Actually it’s my opinion that their demise is because of the duality of being Stormers and WP and from what the one inherits fro mthe other in terms of playing style etc.
23 Aug 2012, 16:02 pm
@Transformation-316:
and what achievements do the highlanders franchise have to show for it itself, or its union partners for that matter?
23 Aug 2012, 16:05 pm
Aussies and Kiwis are laughing at all this and are happy that at least their game is not tainted by window dressing politics.
23 Aug 2012, 16:06 pm
@TooMuchRugby-326: Nope mate i think the problems at wp rugby lie far deeper
23 Aug 2012, 16:07 pm
@Tacitus-323: Yes and the Lions (Transvaal) were actually good enough to win the SuperR comp when they were just a union.
Creating regional teams did not strengthen our teams at all. In fact I think it weakened them.
23 Aug 2012, 16:07 pm
@greatest13gerber-328: They nearly said as much on Reunion
23 Aug 2012, 16:10 pm
@greatest13gerber-328: So true, we are the laughing stock of Aussies and Kiwi’s because of our poor management, but don’t let it bother you too much.
23 Aug 2012, 16:11 pm
So, if you have say just over 5.m rugby fans in SA then:
Maybe 4m support the Bulls, Sharks and Stormers.
Maybe another 800k support the Cheetahs and Lions.
Maybe 200k support the rest.
Yet the Big 5, despite having 90%+ of the fans, get just over 33% of the votes.
23 Aug 2012, 16:13 pm
@TooMuchRugby-330:
Heyneke is on record about 5 years ago stating that the continuity taken from an established Currie Cup team going into the S14 back is a big advantage.
23 Aug 2012, 16:14 pm
@Tacitus-323:
@PissAnt-303:
@willievz-302: But for the time being we must content with the regional system, and considering that I also think it would be best for Lions to act as feeder union for the Bulls
23 Aug 2012, 16:18 pm
@TooMuchRugby-335:
They can be a feeder union to everyone. Send their players out on loan to whoever wants them. The unions that make use of their players during the S15 then just pay the salaries of the players in question for that period.
In that way the Lions can get them all back for the Currie Cup, and be ready for the relegation play off next year.
No one wants to be lumped together with them officially. Let it be an unofficial arrangement.
23 Aug 2012, 16:18 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-327:
You miss the point. The NZRU uses its franchises as a super regional trial for the ABs. Which is how we originally envisaged it. It’s just a more formalised version of our old Bok regional trials, with the added attraction of pitting the trial teams against our SANZAR partners instead of just each other.
23 Aug 2012, 16:19 pm
@sharks_lover-329: O Ja! The administrators of course, but let’s not even go there.
23 Aug 2012, 16:19 pm
@Tacitus-336: Fair enough
23 Aug 2012, 16:20 pm
@David-337:
Yes, but the expansion to the S15 has effectively meant that the Currie Cup is meaningless, hence the only way for traditional unions to remain relevant at the top level is to be in charge of their Super Rugby franchises.
The original intention was never to destroy the unions, which Super Rugby has now effectively done at Currie Cup level.
23 Aug 2012, 16:21 pm
@David-337: You sure make a lot of money from trials
23 Aug 2012, 16:21 pm
Let me ask you guys this…do we have enough talented black players in SA to make up this team what the our saru wants? I have been watching and looking with great anticipation for some oustanding players (besides Kolisi) to see how long and if any players are coming thru…they are!!! But not enough or in the numbers that we need then to be to make this happen, to be honest I think we are atleast 6-9 yrs away from an even equal number of good race players! Love the comments pity HM doesn’t read this blog..:
23 Aug 2012, 16:22 pm
@David-314:
so that’s a yes, the sharks are the cause of all this drama..?..
@TooMuchRugby-326:
no, their demise is due to the lack of mental strength.
23 Aug 2012, 16:22 pm
@Saffa down under-342:
Equal number. Hehehe.
23 Aug 2012, 16:24 pm
@greatest13gerber-328:
@sharks_lover-331:
SA Sports are still political football for governmt and it is sad. More and more Saffas will be turning out for England, Scotland, Australia etc
23 Aug 2012, 16:24 pm
@Tacitus-334:
So having an entirely Bulls, Sharks or WP Bok side will be better?
23 Aug 2012, 16:25 pm
@David-346:
Straw man argument.
23 Aug 2012, 16:27 pm
@Saffa down under-342:
answer to that has always being same. No
Not enough black players especially forwards who would walk into a S15 side on merit alone. majority playing in S15 not up to test standard as well.
23 Aug 2012, 16:29 pm
@David-314: I wonder if the Lions were pissed by the Stormers buying all their players ? Maybe if they had the continuity coming from a few years ago when the Stormers opened a ‘store account’ at the Lions – they wouldn’t have finished last this year ?
I think we have done this a few times before, but would you like to hear the long list of Lions players poached by WP/Stormers ? I will be happy to oblige.
23 Aug 2012, 16:29 pm
@David-346: Well, actually……………a full strength WP, Sharks or Bulls side might give the Boks a go.
But of course it could never be tested… if one is full strength, the other by design cannot be.
23 Aug 2012, 16:29 pm
@Saffa down under-342: NO. If HM reads keo he will be depressed and will seriously doubt himself. He has NO chance of keeping the Cape happy. No matter who he choses, what he does. Which gameplan he choses. The only way is to win enough games (pick conservatively) while slowly developing a well rounded Springbok gameplan and to introduce the youngsters for the future gradually. In 10 years’ time the Cape media/ supporters may be happy with him.
23 Aug 2012, 16:29 pm
@Tacitus-334: Where would teams like the Reds and Chiefs draw their “advantage” sans a Currie Cup?
23 Aug 2012, 16:30 pm
@David-337:
i hear you, but i just want to make the point to transie is that the strength of the blue bulls union and its bulls franchise has been good for sa rugby over the past 5 or 6 years. in much the same way caterbury and its crusaders franchise has for nz.
yes, its not quite the same by example but there are similarities there.
23 Aug 2012, 16:31 pm
@Transformation-352:
Why should we deny our sides an advantage that those teams don’t have?
Use every advantage we have.
What you’re saying is just because the Chiefs don’t have this advantage, we should deny it to ourselves as well.
Wise up, Trannie.
23 Aug 2012, 16:32 pm
@Horings-351:
No, then they will still be unhappy because he proved them wrong!
23 Aug 2012, 16:32 pm
Super rugby was best when it was fewer sides..the quality has really dropped with these makeshift sides such as Rebels etc.
Kings vs Crusaders
Kings vs Cheifs
These will be heavy defeats.
23 Aug 2012, 16:32 pm
@Saffa down under-342: which team does SARU want?
23 Aug 2012, 16:33 pm
@TooMuchRugby-350: BTW when last did we not have one Shark in the team. In the 2007 World Cup against England we had no WP players, and I am sure in 2001 we had no Bulls players at some stage. Probably whenever Joost was injured.
23 Aug 2012, 16:33 pm
@greatest13gerber-356: so how did the rebels beat the crusaders this year?
23 Aug 2012, 16:34 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-343:
No, just one of them.
23 Aug 2012, 16:34 pm
@Horings-351:
Meyer couldnt care less about CT opinion. His focus is on winning each test.
Dont think he is focus to far ahead yet.
small steps..but working on special projects..eg Goosen, Serfontein..Vermeulen
23 Aug 2012, 16:35 pm
@greatest13gerber-356: And the Stormers will even struggle to get a 4 try bonus point against the Kings at Newlands.
23 Aug 2012, 16:36 pm
@Transformation-359:
Crusaders had an offday
seriously – cant see Kings measuringup. Especially if they pack their side with ordinary black players for pure cosmetics
23 Aug 2012, 16:36 pm
@greatest13gerber-356:
the scorlines in those examples are less meaningless under this conference format because the crusaders and chiefs will only play the kings once whereas the sa sides will play them twice.
no matter the amount of tries there’s only a max of 5 points on offer to the anzacs but to our ‘advantage’ there’s 10 on offer to the ‘other 4 unions’.
i understand your concern regarding qualitiy though.
23 Aug 2012, 16:37 pm
@greatest13gerber-363:
The issue is not the Kings. They are of no importance whatsoever.
The issue is which of the Bulls, Sharks or Stormers can mount a serious charge to try and win the cup next year.
This side tracking on the Kings is a waste of time.
23 Aug 2012, 16:38 pm
@Horings-362:
yes..WP have lose their tryscoring ability ….and WP will struggle as they all do and choke when it matters.
23 Aug 2012, 16:40 pm
@Tacitus-365:
I agree with that. We need to look at the Cheifs and Crusaders models to seriously(exception WP) challenge next year.
Depth, Squad management are key.
23 Aug 2012, 16:40 pm
@Dusky-349: @Dusky-349:
I was talking about the Sharks buying up the top players from their franchise partners to effectively create a single Sharks/Coastal Sharks team, and get the benefit of SARUs salary compensation to subsidise the players.
23 Aug 2012, 16:41 pm
@greatest13gerber-361: He has already introduced Coetzee, Etzebeth and Coenie. Later on in the Tri Nations it will be Goosen. Year end tour it will be Taute, Kitchoff and a surprise pick with Serfontein. Next year it will be Rhule, etc. Before we know it we will have 15 players that is physically up to it, have the passing skills of backs and the poaching skills of a Pocock. Yes!!! and then WP supporter will moan, because they are not North, but South.
23 Aug 2012, 16:41 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-364:
Thank you for that. This conference format IMO is not ideal. Best is round ribbon.
And more fair too!
23 Aug 2012, 16:42 pm
@greatest13gerber-363: they probably won’t like the Bulls didn’t a number of years back…
23 Aug 2012, 16:44 pm
@Horings-351: That it? HM will walk the same path and be subject to all the scrutiny all Bok coaches before had to endure. Please don’t talk about the future. We don’t live in la la land. Only speak about what Heyneke has achieved thus far as Bok coach.
23 Aug 2012, 16:45 pm
@pompies2-372: An unbeaten record!
23 Aug 2012, 16:45 pm
@Horings-369:
mention for Arno Botha, Frans Venter…
Aussies have three great poachers ta moment..Pocock, Hooper, Gill
I would like see Brussouw back in mix as well.
Meyer is doing well with development side. This is Morne Steyn last year in Bok jersey IMO. Same for jannie duP…Coenie and CIlliers the future.
23 Aug 2012, 16:46 pm
@Horings-369: Heyneke doesn’t want poaching skills. He’s looking for vokmaarvoort skills. I thought you knew what Heyeke wanted.
23 Aug 2012, 16:46 pm
@Tacitus-354: i don’t recall saying we should not have the currie cup…i asked you where do you think the chiefs derive “advantage” sans a currie cup?
meyer’s “way” is not gospel, jy weet?
23 Aug 2012, 16:48 pm
@pompies2-372: Difference between Heyneke, Jake and Snor is you could not make a connection between a single province and the coach without 100% certainty. With Provincialism being as strong it is a huge difference.
23 Aug 2012, 16:48 pm
@Horings-373: Correct. He’s an unbeaten bok coach thus far.
23 Aug 2012, 16:48 pm
@Transformation-371:
Saru will never find a solution please everyone especially politicians
Color should not be an issue in Sports..simple… but in SA it never is.
23 Aug 2012, 16:48 pm
in a weirdly ironic way the lions have actually done sa rugby a huge favour, through its sacrificial demise they have given:
a minimum 10 point guarantee for the four sa super teams.
a host of players who could boost the ranks of the title contenders.
lessened the injury burden on the super teams.
yet will keep a number of their parasitic administrators gainfully troughed (idle hands…)
the mtn / golden lions may have saved all of sa rugby folks.
23 Aug 2012, 16:50 pm
@Horings-377: huh? rephrase.
23 Aug 2012, 16:52 pm
@greatest13gerber-374: Who made the most steals for the ABs against the Wallabies? Not McCaw! Oosthuizen probably made more steals than Brussow for the Cheetahs. Our vision should be to have numerous players having the skill to steal balls on the ground. Players in the front row, in the centres as well as flankers should all have the skill.
I agree on Brussow as Oosthuizen and Bismark is not available.
23 Aug 2012, 16:52 pm
@Horings-377:
Provincialism is what SA rugby has being build on.
In my family it always was Province over country..this was passion for the game.
23 Aug 2012, 16:54 pm
@pompies2-381: Jake and Snor were national coaches before being picked to coach the Boks. No one on this site said they were pro this province or that province. Heyneke is blou bedonnerd. We all know that and it makes it difficult for some supporters to accept it.
23 Aug 2012, 16:55 pm
@Horings-382:
“Players in the front row, in the centres as well as flankers should all have the skill.”
I agree with that. But We will see the effect of Specialist poachers this weekend with Abs vs Wallabies…3 of the best in world will be on show.
Coenie is best poaching Prop around IMO.
23 Aug 2012, 16:56 pm
This is something the SARU doos’s should be saying to the convicts.
“McCafferty said he was not prepared to do anything to damage the Aviva Premiership in order to change the qualification system for the Heineken Cup, as the Premiership accounts for 80% of revenues compared to 20% from Europe.
‘ERC should know that we are serious and while the issue has to be resolved, everyone has to realise we cannot carry on as we are,’ he said.
‘If it is not, we would go to an Anglo-French competition and if others wanted to join us, fair enough.”
23 Aug 2012, 16:57 pm
@greatest13gerber-383: I agree. It makes us as strong as we are. Sometimes it is also not good for the game in our country.
23 Aug 2012, 16:59 pm
@greatest13gerber-379: SARU have all the money and mechanisms to do anything they like to make the game flourish in an equitable manner but their structure where PARTISAN unions vote on every single decision, selfish interests like the ones displayed by Tac on this thread will always curtail any aspirations.
23 Aug 2012, 17:01 pm
@Transformation-376:
The main reason for the decline of the CC is the Tri Nations that take out the Boks until the last few games. The Conference system doesn’t help by adding another two rounds of the same teams playing each other, but it’s the Tri Nations and now Championship that has reduced the interest.
23 Aug 2012, 17:03 pm
@greatest13gerber-383: you grew up in a time where there was NO country to be passionate about!
23 Aug 2012, 17:05 pm
@RL-386: “as the Premiership accounts for 80% of revenues compared to 20% from Europe.” – well if Currie Cup accounted for 80% of SARU’s revenue then they’d have a leg to stand on…
23 Aug 2012, 17:12 pm
@Horings-384: that’s not the ONLY reason people will question, discuss and ultimately criticise heyneke meyer’s decisions with the Boks.
23 Aug 2012, 17:24 pm
@Transformation-390:
Not everyone grew up with a signed Cheeky Watson poster on their bedroom wall
23 Aug 2012, 17:27 pm
@victoriabok-393: i agree, i didn’t either
23 Aug 2012, 17:29 pm
@Transformation-391: I was thinking in terms of superrugby revenue – surley the biggest revenue stream 70% comes from the republic. Why does there have to be an even split of revenue and teams for superrugby – doesn’t matter cause kortbroek Roux is in for an oniel shagging soon.
23 Aug 2012, 17:29 pm
@Transformation-394:
Pamela Anderson?
Scope centrefolds with stars?
23 Aug 2012, 17:33 pm
@RL-395:
They should look at both revenue and viewership, lots more SA viewers
After all it’s about broadcasting it on cable networks and selling cable tv/advertising not full stadiums
23 Aug 2012, 17:58 pm
Mshini wam…mshini wam…
23 Aug 2012, 18:02 pm
@David-389: I think they should get realistic and combine the Vodacom Cup and Currie Cup into one tournament and then just accept that this tournament will be played with players available after the Bok selectors have taken their dues.
23 Aug 2012, 18:28 pm
@Tacitus-306:
Quite the opposite I think.
Your insular views makes it simply impossible to see that one decision made, and some more decisions to come, will directly affect the very thing you are trying to protect, your beloved Bulls.
What is required is a solution to a very obvious problem, not a decision which only benefits 1 or a few – it is for that reason we sit with this Kings situation in the first place – the decision wasn’t a solution to a problem for SA Rugby, it was a cop out.
And I told you before, today its the Lions, tomorrow its the Bulls.
Your seeming willingness or mission to rid SA Rugby of smaller unions for the benefit of a few on top has far reaching consequences.
In fact, your hypocrisy in now even classing the Lions, current CC champions as one of these small, useless unions for benefit of the Bulls shows me more than I need to see of your angle.
I have tried to explain, to death, that it has become clear that the Lions are unable to sustain a Super Rugby franchise in SA Rugby. They had their chance to make it work from 2006 and even with administrative changes, and plenty of coaching changes, continued to fail.
The solution is obviously a single franchise license for the Gauteng region – or at least, in my mind it is.
This region however represents 5 unions. The unions currently under the Lions franchise, will get divided into other franchises, bet your *** on it – that is how it works.
But the point here is for me where you see 5 unions as a stumbling block for the success, financial or otherwise for the Bulls, in my mind is actually a massive positive.
No other franchise in this competition will have these type of resources available to them. You want a SUPER Super rugby franchise, Gauteng can produce just that and be unbeatable.
So rather than cast the Lions, and their ex-partner unions aside, the Bulls to my mind would be fools not to engage De Klerk and the Lions and see if they can absorb them into their current structures.
Another point about all 14 of our unions.
Do you know how many unions NZ (not even a 3rd our size) has that all play in their version of the Currie Cup? Are you aware how many of them are absorbed into their 5 franchises?
Wonder why we have been so poor in comparison through this competition’s history and at test levels against them?
Not such a mystery to me really.
23 Aug 2012, 18:29 pm
@victoriabok-396: nah, michael jordan, kareem abdul-jabbar, larry bird, chris mullins clyde drexler, hakeem olajuwon, patrick ewing.
23 Aug 2012, 18:39 pm
@Transformation-401:
Steve Nash is from Victoria, do you know him?
23 Aug 2012, 19:32 pm
@Dusky-399:
I agree, although there’d need to be some realignment of the tournaments. The VC runs during the S15 season and the CC after it.
@PissAnt-400:
Tacitus priorities are the complete opposite of the aim of the Franchise system. He sees the franchise as an extension of the Blue Bulls provincial union, whilst the S15 is actually an extension of the Springbok high performance players programme.
23 Aug 2012, 19:41 pm
@David-403:
Yes. And this topic has been ragged to pieces now.
23 Aug 2012, 19:51 pm
@PissAnt-404:
Yes it has. How many years is it now?
I reckon Tacitus is being deliberately obdurate though, just for the fun of it.
23 Aug 2012, 19:51 pm
@PissAnt-400:
It summed up pretty accurately, but those guys from Pretoria understands it just too well
The idea is to buy time by throwing the Lions under the bus in the hope to circumvent the inevitable
What Tacitus said is irrelevant -as usual- it the conduct of the other 4 Unions is what count, as Denton once said: “I am dragging Robespierre with me” (to the guillotine)
Don’t cry for the Lions though they knew it’s coming but did nothing about, so now it will the Stormers’ turn to accomodate Elton Jantjies,,,
23 Aug 2012, 19:54 pm
@David-405:
I have lost count David! Definitely too many.
@Hondo-406:
Love the Denton quote bud.
Anycase folks, I am treating myself and the wife to a whole grain mustard peppered sirloin steak, time for me to get cooking and uncork!
23 Aug 2012, 19:56 pm
@David-403: Actually the structure as it is, is not all bad. It presents a succession plan or else we would have developing players only playing one tournament per year – and then only if they are good enough to make the CC squad.
Also we would be back to a Currie Cup format including all the ‘other’ smaller teams which would raise the argument again as to the value of having games between the big 5 unions and the minor teams. Hardly anyone attends those games or really cares about them and the risk of severe injury escalates when you have semi-professional players possibly playing against Springboks. We dont want more Max Brito’s
We just have to accept that the Currie Cup has evolved (through the Super rugby and Rugby Championship seasons) into a tournament devoid of Springboks. It is what it is.
23 Aug 2012, 20:09 pm
Danton surely ?
23 Aug 2012, 20:18 pm
@victoriabok-402: of course i KNOW him, he is outstanding! he’s just moved to the Lakers.
Nash was born in JOHANNESBURG!
i bet you didn’t know that
23 Aug 2012, 20:21 pm
Indeed Transie his mates call him Bangers.
23 Aug 2012, 20:39 pm
@Transformation-410:
Yes I did
Don’t go claiming him like you did with Federer
23 Aug 2012, 20:40 pm
Vic Matfield says Deon Fourie feels snubbed by his non-selection post Bismarck’s 8 month lay-off
23 Aug 2012, 21:04 pm
@viewer-413:
well maybe he should be looking at his poor basic skills as a hooker, thats what cost him
But then again he is from WP, maybe he feels its his right to just becomde a bok
23 Aug 2012, 21:31 pm
@viewer-413:
When did Matfield say it? Sounds like rubbish to me.
23 Aug 2012, 22:18 pm
@robzim On TV (boots&all on SS)
23 Aug 2012, 22:21 pm
Remember, both tiaan & burden are second choice hookers @ their SR teams. So fourie might take up the toulon contract
23 Aug 2012, 22:45 pm
@viewer-416:
OK, thks.
Victor was probably only speculating as he is certainly in no position to speak on behalf of Fourie.
Anyway, Fourie is a good player- very gutsy, always going flat out, no bars hold, punches above his weight- he is the sort of guy one would love to have on your side in a war.
But, sadly, his basic skills as a hooker are not good enough. In fact, he is probably the worst thrower of the ball into the lineout in local senior professional rugby. It is not only that he is technically a bad thrower, he also seems to suffer from “stage fright” meaning that he usually misses the vital ones.
I do not think Teddy Bear Straus and Burden are even remotely close to world class but under the circumstances I would also have selected them ahead of Fourie.
23 Aug 2012, 22:46 pm
@Robzim-418:
I hear G10 has returned to Keo, is this true or is it the imposter again?
Anyway how are you?
23 Aug 2012, 23:06 pm
@carol-419: it is him…for real. The rants abt John Smit, fetchers…you couldn’t confuse him if you tried
23 Aug 2012, 23:14 pm
i was reading another forum called sharksworld today and discovereI wonder what kd that the poster on here known as transformation posts under the name megatron on that site, and boy what a troll he/she is on that site. seems like he/she has a bit of a chip on the shoulder about the sharks. Poor kid.
24 Aug 2012, 00:19 am
You are fooling no one with your neophyte tendencies Humphrey by dishonestly pretending to be a new blogger on this and other sites when you know you are one of the SharksGang nicstealing multinics who has come up with a new pseudonym since the Keo.co.za webtech was forced to sort out the nicstealing last week. You ask innocent ‘naïve’ questions about being banned for saying ‘nawty’ things to try and con people into thinking you’re ‘new’. There is no way a person new to blogging would dream up whether Transformation on this site and Megatron on the other site are one and the same. The only people who have ever made that accusation are members of the Fritzl Freak SharksGang drunken HeavensShame and his sycophantic bootlickers SharksLover Predawn Fern WoodenSpoon and Dusky. The dishonest old lush SharksLover still cannot make a comment without spitting venom at Wp supporters and players I have proven this to be true on countless occasions now by using his own words to prove him guilty of being the lowlife liar he is and then he has the audacity to criticize other bloggers for the same thing. You and your sardineshoal of copycat cut and paste opinionistas do nothing but troll and look for trouble you are so envious of the Cape and people who live there and are so angstridden about the class and breeding you will never have because your incestuous breeding habits preclude the procurement of quality genes.
SARU should have kicked the Sharks out and let you delusional Nataalians in your Last Outpost of White Colonial Conservative Supremacist Bigotry go it alone and let all genuine South Africans get on with their united national rugby lives while you fools proclaim yourselves Kings of your little corner of Empire and crown your team Champions of the World at the Royal Show. The Sharks are now indisputably the Champions of Cheating Rugby in South Africa. Your New Zealand coaches have brought the concept of Coached Cheating to South Africa and you Nataalians have taken to cheating like vampires to blood because Nataal were never anything more than lucky winners before but now you will do anything to win in your desperation for acceptance to run with the big dogs of South African rugby.
So what if Transformation trolls on SharksWorld as Megatron he is doing nothing different to what you and your SharksGang do on Keo.co.za. Why do all of you not go and blog on SharksWorld where your mutual semantic masturbation will not revolt so many people.
Before you get carried away I do not hate people who live in Natal (even though the province should be called KwaZulu…) but I detest and loath the dishonesty and hypocrisy continually demonstrated and proved by drunken HeavenShame lush SharksLover You and your gang of classless wannabes.
24 Aug 2012, 00:29 am
@Dirty Harry-422: hey Dirty Harry but you are a proven capey multinic you post under the name FckU2 in case you forgot so i guess that makes you a big old toolbox. Seems like you too have issues with life in general and the Saarks in particularly, how long it must have taken you to type that nonsense – what a waste of valuable living time all to only achieve making a fool of yourself (again) you deluded old goat.
24 Aug 2012, 00:56 am
You are a fool my original nic was FckU2 and I added the Dirty Harry when both nics were used on Keo.co.za so that my full name to all posters on this website was Dirty Harry (FckU2) I never hid from anything or pretended to be anything or anyone else then Keo.co.za dropped the bracketed original name which caused the hassles and allowed dishonest scumbags like you to ‘steal’ the names of other users and cause mayhem. I never did that and when the webtech sorted the problem last week by resorting to only the original nics I thought it would be better to use Dirty Harry instead of FckU2 and I even posted that I had reregistered myself as Dirty Harry although the fool Predawn was too stupid to understand what I wrote. So there is nothing dishonest or duplicitous about what I have done on Keo.co.za.
I live a fantastic life and have very few issues in general or with Sharks what I do have a problem with is dishonesty and hypocrisy and will call people who continually exhibit those characteristics it just so happens that on this weblog most of the dishonest hypocrites are coincidentally Sharks fans and you and your Fritzl Freak SharksGang are all dishonest hypocrites.
You do a great disservice to honorable Sharks fans like SharksGirl Puma Rangerman Charo MrBlack and others. You can throw all the insults in the world at me it will not make one bit of difference I am here to keep reminding everyone who posts here that you and your uncouth lowlife SharksGang are the only real nicstealing trouble makers and I will continue to drop in and show you liars up for the scum you are as long as you are on this site so you had better learn to deal with it and me when you post yourshit I will post it right back until you have two choices leave the site or drop the dishonest hypercritical trolling and lying that You HeavenShame SharkLover and your gang of liars do all the time.
The really funny thing is that I am not even a WP fan I just hate dishonest people like you HeavenShame and SharkLover and the trouble and hatred you cause.
24 Aug 2012, 01:00 am
@Dirty Harry-422:
You should’t post more than five lines, no-one will ever read it anyway
24 Aug 2012, 03:39 am
@Dirty Harry-424: Hey brakkie stoepkakkerkie yip yapperkie….you have a serious chip on your shoulder about the Sharks hey ? You a Weer Probeer supporter ? Can’t blame you then….I know the Sharks are public enemy # 1 in the mofkop majority Slaapstad at the moment. You probably used to go on like this about the Bulls as well considering they were the ones that owned you before the Sharks did.
@Humphrey-421: Transformation has multiple personas on this blog, so it hardly surprises me he hangs around on Sharksworld. Mind you there are some prime chops on Sharksworld so I don’t mind if he goes and trolls there a bit. Some a-holes on there deserve it.
24 Aug 2012, 07:19 am
haha i have no idea what you are talkin about Scumbag Harry but i can tell you that your long winded posts do you no favours.
@Dusky-426: i popped on to check it out (Sharksworld) and read a few threads. they don’t like anyone mentioning “keo” and the managment there seem to come down hard on anyone who speaks against the grain. in the one thread they mentioned “transie” is megatron. wow so transformation has multinics here too?
24 Aug 2012, 07:26 am
@Humphrey-427: I mentioned transie is megatron, because it’s true
24 Aug 2012, 07:31 am
@sharks_lover-428: Hey SL, looks like we have a real pom pom girl…
She seems to have taken writing long love letters in the dead of the night…
Apparently she’s “not even a WP fan”
But definitely slightly obsessive it seems…
24 Aug 2012, 07:33 am
Sharks-Lover what did you do to get Scumbag Harry’s knickers in a knot. I’m guessing nothing. Seems Scumbag Harry has a bit of a thing for you.
24 Aug 2012, 07:36 am
someone is on the rag it seems…
24 Aug 2012, 07:40 am
@Fern-431: Fern, looks like you got a mention too…
Not even bluff scruff is spared it seems
24 Aug 2012, 07:49 am
This multinic thing I have raised seems to have exposed a few raw nerves…
24 Aug 2012, 07:50 am
Morning HG
I see that aswell.
It just needs to get laid.
Has the obese car gaurd from Kings Cross been around?
24 Aug 2012, 07:53 am
@Fern-434: I think Poops may have had his meds… all quiet from the Fatty
24 Aug 2012, 07:55 am
Or he has been instutionalized HG,or he suffered another breakdown,maybe Mt Pooper has erupted as predicted by my.
24 Aug 2012, 08:00 am
@Fern-436: Ja, maybe… The Kiwis seem to be a bit sparse at the moment. Cane is around but havent seen much of Hurricane Satriani lately… Maybe they just feeling a bit smug and have no need of defending their team and country’s honour at the moment.
24 Aug 2012, 08:03 am
@Heavens Game-435: @Heavens Game-435: @Humphrey-430:
we be famous,:lol:
Dirty harry is the one and only Al Crappo, tries to act like he is a new blogger
it crawled out of the gutter to make a noise, He is living proof that skunk afterbirth does get to breath sometimes
He runs around trying to twist peoples wors around, now my good fellows dont be suprised when ya find out who it is, see for a while since Stormersz got their asses kicked?? WEEPEE has dissapeared and for the most so has Stormergutterboyforlife,
24 Aug 2012, 08:04 am
Shame, the Cape Vuilgat having a cry ‘cos the sharks are spreading hatered? Yip, a lot of them hate the Sharks for being the best team in the country.
24 Aug 2012, 08:06 am
@Dirty Harry-424: hey bosbaba, only thing dishonest in here is you, hiding under other nics, how does it feel to have a yellow jelly spine??
24 Aug 2012, 08:06 am
@sharks_lover-438: Poodlenaaier?
24 Aug 2012, 08:07 am
@439
I the words of Kurt Cobain
“hate me I dont care”
24 Aug 2012, 08:09 am
@trupisero-439: Yup Trupi,
24 Aug 2012, 08:10 am
@trupisero-441: YUP
thaat one is scum of the lowest form
24 Aug 2012, 08:14 am
you can also see since the WP and Stormers took a couple of good smacks from the Sharks the likes of WEEPEE and POODlefucker are nowhere to be seen accept under new nics, acting like they are new
Let the WP win a game against the BUlls or the Sharks then they will be visible again telling us WP rule the world
24 Aug 2012, 08:16 am
@sharks_lover-444: kakker as kakkerlak kak
24 Aug 2012, 08:16 am
@trupisero-446:
verseker
24 Aug 2012, 08:16 am
@sharks_lover-438: You reckon Dirty Harriet is Poodlenaaier aka stormerforlife aka wnbb….? Maybe. But I have a suspicion that Harriet is another poster – with a “nice” alter ego. I wont name it yet, its just that I remember a comment slipping from said alter ego while the Harriet had just been posting – it was as if it had forgotten it was not posting under the Dirty Harry nic… A case of multinic confusion
24 Aug 2012, 08:18 am
@trupisero-446: daai gemors was op geboorte baie gelukkig, die doktor het gese maak dood, toe dog sy ma hy het gese maak groot, en toe maak sy nog die fout om die nageboorte te laat lewe en nie die uintelike kind nie
24 Aug 2012, 08:20 am
@trupisero-439: “A lot of them”, lol… Naah, on Keo its just one or two in reality – but each have about 4 or 5 different nics… So one = five or two = ten…
Its just that their frustration boils over from being regularly outsmarted and outwitted…
24 Aug 2012, 08:20 am
@Heavens Game-448:
i have also suspected the one you speak of, 
24 Aug 2012, 08:22 am
Dusky also says its the one you speak of
24 Aug 2012, 08:24 am
@Heavens Game-450: true…multiple personalities that all have some form of psychosis
24 Aug 2012, 08:24 am
@Heavens Game-450: A few more than 2 but i agree
24 Aug 2012, 08:26 am
@Heavens Game-448: And you only worked that out now? Do you ever read anything posted here? After I was accused of all sorts of multinics I tried to educate the lot of you as to the best methods of ID’ing multinics and double posters.
The phrase you are mentioning, that exposed the person was “Fritzlfreaks”. It was clear as day for those with any intelligence what so ever to see: A very ‘SPACEd out mess’. (Sad to say, you seem to have a little grey matter as you noticed it as well – credit where it is due.)
Now that you seem to be up to cutting it in the world of CSI:Keo, please assist a few of your friends, as their detection skills are absolutelyfuckingwoeful.
24 Aug 2012, 08:26 am
@sharks_lover-451: @sharks_lover-452: What they do have in common is a tendency for long posts… Will catch it sometime
24 Aug 2012, 08:28 am
HG bro you gotta laugh at someone using multi nics and then not remembering under which name it
posting
24 Aug 2012, 08:29 am
@trupisero-453: Fcked in the piesang… Far too obsessed with the sh.yte on this site…
24 Aug 2012, 08:30 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-455: Known it for ages…. Can see through you little multinic fckers as clear as day… Old HG just gives you some rope… and then pounces…
BOOM!
24 Aug 2012, 08:31 am
@sharks_lover-452: Dusky was the kakkest multinic stealer ever.
Honestly. The twat clean forgot he was posting under my stolen nic….
And it’s only the Cape folk who are fuckdinthehead?
Now a serious question: Where are you Sharks fellows displaying that S15 trophy you won?
And why are you hiding it away?
24 Aug 2012, 08:32 am
@sharks_lover-457: Dusky and Wooden Spoon are the undisputed champs in this regard……look no further for multinic paralympians.
24 Aug 2012, 08:32 am
@sharks_lover-457: Straight shooting
I think I gonna have a war here today… Gonna cause havoc and really turn this multinic fcked up site upside down, rightside up…. 
24 Aug 2012, 08:33 am
@Heavens Game-459:
Hg i ignore it for the most, lifes way to short to worry about the boknaai kids,
What would be funny however is the sit with the Keo crew when they double up on the nics again and it shows out who is who
24 Aug 2012, 08:34 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-460: How many tickets were sold for the final at Boolands?
24 Aug 2012, 08:34 am
@Heavens Game-462:
24 Aug 2012, 08:35 am
@trupisero-464: it was sold out
24 Aug 2012, 08:36 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-460: What Super trophy…? Sharks are Super Rugby’s version of the Buffalo Bills… Many finals, no wins but a great side… Greatest side in Super Rugby never to have won…
Beats been Conference Title “holders” any day of the week….
24 Aug 2012, 08:37 am
@Heavens Game-459: You don’t see through the ‘multi-nics’ as accurately as what you would claim to.
In fact you have been woefully inaccurate in 95% of your ‘revelations’. I know this how?
One day you will find out.
Until then, keep on keeping on……..
24 Aug 2012, 08:39 am
@Heavens Game-467: Yes but we need to right that wrong, it’s not a nice title to have,
24 Aug 2012, 08:40 am
@sharks_lover-463: Not worried… Just want to cause a fight in the Vatican… organise a pissup in a brewery…. eat pork in a Mosque….
24 Aug 2012, 08:40 am
@Heavens Game-470:
24 Aug 2012, 08:41 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-468: Ag, shutup wench… Either prove it or lose it.
24 Aug 2012, 08:42 am
@sharks_lover-469: 2013 is the year of the Shark… I shityounot.
24 Aug 2012, 08:44 am
@trupisero-464: How many tickets were sold for the Sharks home games this season, in total? Take that amount, multiply it by 500 and you will have an answer.
Now it’s my turn to ask a question: How many ‘Sharks-Super Rugby Champions’ t-shirts have you fellows had printed over the years, and how many were sold? I’m guessing about 20 000 were stitched up and printed for every final you have played in? So that gives me:80 000 t-shirts in total? Is that about correct?
24 Aug 2012, 08:47 am
@Heavens Game-473: I hope so mate, we do need to strengthen one or 2 positions though, like we need another strong backup prop ( Cilliers has mentioned on twitter he missed Durbs big time) so dont rule that one out, wish we can also get Ruan back, although you Reinach is proving to be a very good up and comming scrummy
24 Aug 2012, 08:48 am
@Heavens Game-472: Prove it or lose it?
A challenge……This wench enjoys challenges, but only when the opponent is worthy. Think of me as SBW; you are the handicapped and morbidly obese gospel singer living off disability grants who was KfuckingO’d in 35 seconds.
See it my way, and let’s save time.
24 Aug 2012, 08:48 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-474: Who says Trupisero is a Sharks supporter??
24 Aug 2012, 08:50 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-474: “Take that amount, multiply it by 500 and you will have an answer.”… Wrong.
Why? Because the Shark stadium always as full as newlands even though the seats can be empty…
Why? Because Kings Park bigger for one. Also if you have actually been to KP you will know that there are pubs all over the stadium and as hard as it may be in other stadiums to get a beer – at KP it is hard not to get one…
So those sometimes empty seats are because the Left and Right wing, Tighthead and Loosehead plus Duikers Pubs are full… Helluva Craic you poor gaptooth CapeSader terrorised have never experienced in your Poppers obsessed fairy lives….ever
24 Aug 2012, 08:52 am
@sharks_lover-477: Shark or Bull – much of a muchness.
24 Aug 2012, 08:53 am
@Heavens Game-478: Newlands has bgotten worse and worse to watch a game of rugby,
24 Aug 2012, 08:55 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-476: That aint proof… Now Gwaan! ntombi… voessek msunu…
24 Aug 2012, 08:55 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-474: That’s still less than the number of AB and Saders jerseys sold in CT this year alone.
24 Aug 2012, 08:56 am
@Heavens Game-478: What a spiritual passage of writing. Wasted though. All you need to do is pull up the attendance figures for the season, as broken down per stadium, and your ‘ode to Kings Park’ falls flatter than your team when they make a final.
I still give you 7 points for the passion you exhibited.
24 Aug 2012, 08:58 am
@sharks_lover-480: Yeah… When half the stadium is empty for the Boks, its a disgrace… Newlands was a disgrace that day. An embarrassment actually.
24 Aug 2012, 09:00 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-483: Still no proof… Oh Dear…
Reach, daahling… reach…. for the stars…
The come back down to earth… where HG gonna re bore and rip you a new one.
24 Aug 2012, 09:02 am
@sharks_lover-480: Why? Did they take away your catering concession?
@trupisero-482: And whoever is selling those replica truitjies is making a killing and providing employment – bad thing? Not in my opinion.
24 Aug 2012, 09:03 am
@sharks_lover-475: Cilliers, Mostert and Pienaar will do just nicely… Then the Sharks will be ready to go… Cape Canaveral Lift off.
24 Aug 2012, 09:05 am
@Heavens Game-485: If you say so Alipate Liava’a.
24 Aug 2012, 09:08 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-486: I wouldnt know, i have no desire to business in that kak place, never have and never will,
24 Aug 2012, 09:09 am
Doggy… you emailed the rest of your multinics yet?
“Please help”… breathless…. “HG bending me, giving me what I deserve”… panting… “and I laaik it soooo much”…
“He’s so rof”….
24 Aug 2012, 09:11 am
@Heavens Game-487: eish with those 3 we will dominate, would be like taking candy from blind kids
24 Aug 2012, 09:12 am
@Heavens Game-490:
ok hold the thoughts , imma go get the popcorn and watch this go down 
24 Aug 2012, 09:13 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-488: Hehehe…. Come, doggy. Try some less geeky sh.yte for a change.
24 Aug 2012, 09:17 am
@sharks_lover-492: Its gonna be the Bay of Pigs shortly… All the emotional little twinks will be hopping, popping up and down ready to get ripped by Big Daddy here…
Nitrates everywhere. Its Mo.ffie teargas. Straight from Newlands.
24 Aug 2012, 09:17 am
Where is the new articles for a new day? Jeez, sport24 has lots of stuff going on, but this site seems asleep.
24 Aug 2012, 09:19 am
Doggy…. DOGGY…
Where you Luv?
24 Aug 2012, 09:20 am
@Heavens Game-496:
24 Aug 2012, 09:21 am
@goodstuff-495: Yeah things going at snails pace here
24 Aug 2012, 09:23 am
@Heavens Game-490: And you revert to type….compulsive sexual behaviour. Chitty chitty bang bang. (Sexist commentary has little effect on me, in case you haven’t noticed. I will not be pulling any ‘oh the big bad man was being sexist’ **** round here, so you should try to find a more effective way of ‘hitting me where it hurts’
)
@sharks_lover-491: You already dominate the ‘appeared in most and never won’ finals stats. You really are the Bert le Clos of Sharks rugby, with one difference: the object of Bert’s obsession actually has a winners medal.
24 Aug 2012, 09:23 am
@sharks_lover-497: Dont laugh too much cuzzie… Transie gets pissedoff
24 Aug 2012, 09:24 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-499: Hey atleast we make the Finals, we dont lose 3 semi finals at HOME
24 Aug 2012, 09:25 am
@Heavens Game-500:
for sure he will run to sharksworld next to go pout 
24 Aug 2012, 09:30 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-499: Sexist, sexual or both? Far too clever for humble ol’ HG here… There I was thinking I was just being homophobic…. Oh well…
Nevertheless it was luvverly seeing Newlands so “packed” for the Currie Cup game against the Sharks….
It seems the Sharks are about as popular in CT as a straight guy in Firemans…
24 Aug 2012, 09:30 am
@Heavens Game-496: Right here cupcake. Unlike furniture salesmen (such as yourself) and hamburger flippers like Sharks_sodomiser, I do have to attend to some rather important matters every so often. (But I promise I will always return, and give you the attention you crave – as I am a caring soul, sensitive to the needs of the disenfranchised and weak.)
24 Aug 2012, 09:30 am
@sharks_lover-501:
Don’t you just love the old adage ” a miss is as good as a mile”
24 Aug 2012, 09:32 am
@sharks_lover-502: Maybe he can come pout with Doggy here… She is sulking bad at the moment… in between breathless
24 Aug 2012, 09:33 am
@sharks_lover-501: Semi finals at home is money in the coffers. Win or lose. Business 101. Something a hamburger flipper like you might struggle to understand.
When did the Sharks last host a semi-final in Super rugby?
2007? (serious question…)
24 Aug 2012, 09:34 am
@Humphrey-421: you discovered? hehehehe well done
24 Aug 2012, 09:35 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-504: “Furniture salesman”…. lol… Professional Fly fisherman… get it right msunu, kay?
Yeah, yeah… go farkoff and change the tampon then… But come back when you finished, yeah?
24 Aug 2012, 09:36 am
@Jeraldjay-505: The Sharks have been best losers FOUR times
And on a sidenote: it’s helluva funny that Sharks_sodomiser was whinging about the Poms receiving medals for losing the series against the Proteas. He was horrified that a ‘man of the series’ was chosen from the Pom team as well…..
Yet here he is, promoting the best losers cause with all the passion he can muster.
24 Aug 2012, 09:37 am
Looky here… Doggy’s cavalry arrives…. Multinic gangbang coming up
24 Aug 2012, 09:37 am
@Heavens Game-500: ahhh HG is see you miss me
24 Aug 2012, 09:37 am
@Transformation-508:
How was Cape Town and when you making the permanent move?
24 Aug 2012, 09:39 am
@Heavens Game-511:
24 Aug 2012, 09:40 am
@Jeraldjay-505: Yup… But the Sharks miss was still a mile closer than the Stormers miss…
I would take beaten finalist any day over Conference “title” holder…. especially after said “holder” is fuckedup silly by the beaten finalist
24 Aug 2012, 09:41 am
@Transformation-512: Hand’s free? Or still with “Techno” in one hand, wire in other… and Cheeky up the dutpipe….?
24 Aug 2012, 09:42 am
@Heavens Game-509: You think you have caught me? Your fly fishing on here is about as successful as my one attempt at fly fishing in the real world.
Fun to watch (for those observing me), but absolutely meaningless in the grander scheme of things.
PS: Why the concern for tampon changing? Tampon/Vampire fetish?
24 Aug 2012, 09:42 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-510:
Pedigree, I’ll give credit when it is due, Chad Le Clos and Hashim are Sharkies, so kudo’s to that neck of the woods, but KP that “other” Sharkie just pissed on the whole parade.
24 Aug 2012, 09:44 am
@Jeraldjay-513: Kaapstad is always great, i always have a great time when i’m there, what with amazing friends like G10 & JR making the whole Newlands experience a jol.
24 Aug 2012, 09:44 am
@Jeraldjay-505: prefer a miss as good as a missus
24 Aug 2012, 09:44 am
@Jeraldjay-513: Can we not orchestrate a swop here? Sharks_lover for Transformation?
It shouldn’t take us too long to pack up Sharky’s burger flipper, apron and 15L of cookling oil?
I would contribute to such a cause.
24 Aug 2012, 09:44 am
@Heavens Game-515: Nope they never had a chance to miss, their rifle jammed before they could take aim at a final
24 Aug 2012, 09:45 am
@Heavens Game-515:
Money in the coffers for the semi-final, HG.
At the end of the day thats all that matters.
24 Aug 2012, 09:47 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-510: @sharks_lover-514: @Heavens Game-511:
You guys are funny.
See this article and results below.
http://inside-politics.org/2012/06/29/why-stormers-rugby-supporters-are-statistically-the-best/
2012 average:
Stormers 42 729 (82% of capacity) Up from 2011
Bulls 35 658 (69% of capacity) Up from 2011
Lions 24 318 (39% of capacity) Up from 2011
Sharks 23 431 (43% of capacity) which is a lower attendance average than the LIONS!!!!! Down from 2011
Cheetahs 19 033 (47% of capacity) Up from 2011
All based on round robin home games attendance.
24 Aug 2012, 09:47 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-517: Yes… Doggy… Now watch me reel it in…
No concern… when you hormonal… cyclic… out of absolutely no choice of your own…. its facts of life. Thats all.
Vampire fetish…. eish, very geeky that one.
24 Aug 2012, 09:47 am
@Heavens Game-515: Pity there isn’t a trophy for all the Sharks ‘missed’ achievements. I’m thinking a gold plated bottle of ‘Borstol’?
24 Aug 2012, 09:47 am
@Heavens Game-515: Hell according to most of them on here winning the Cup was not only a given, but they were entitled to the cup
24 Aug 2012, 09:47 am
@Heavens Game-516:
24 Aug 2012, 09:48 am
@sharks_lover-522: You mean they shot blanks…
24 Aug 2012, 09:50 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-526: Pity there isn’t one for the Stormers… aah, but I’m wrong…. There is one – its a big bottle of Poppers…. otherwise known as the “Conference Title”.
24 Aug 2012, 09:50 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-521: you should stop watching so many cartoons,
24 Aug 2012, 09:51 am
@Jeraldjay-523: Is that so…? So the WP/Stormers balance sheet must be looking so much more healthy than the Sharks then?
Lol
24 Aug 2012, 09:51 am
@Heavens Game-529:
24 Aug 2012, 09:52 am
@Heavens Game-532:
they hardly have cash to buy a local club player left
Finances not looking to good in WP
24 Aug 2012, 09:53 am
@Heavens Game-532: Carel Dup knew this and didnt want his son not recieveing his salary, so he sent him to Durban
24 Aug 2012, 09:53 am
@goodstuff-524: So the magnificent ‘Tank’ was 43% full……all season.
That kind of blows HG’s passionate theory right out of the stratosphere. The Sharks have such loyal and supportive fans.
The Sharks better hope they never end last in the SA conference and have to play in a promo/relegation game against those Lions…..(who were better supported than the Shakrs this season)
24 Aug 2012, 09:54 am
@goodstuff-524: Lies damn lies and bullshit statistics…
There weren’t 42 729 Stormermofs at the Bok test…. There also weren’t 42 729 Stormermofs at the Sharks Currie Cup game….
You can’t hid what mine own eyes tell me… That your stats are bulldust of the utmost highest order.
24 Aug 2012, 09:54 am
HG here with SL hanging off his leg
Epitome of boredom
24 Aug 2012, 09:56 am
@Transformation-519:
Off to Mavericks after the game?
Or perhaps not
24 Aug 2012, 09:56 am
@Heavens Game-532:
and they think all those flocking to Boolands are there to support the Stormers??? 
24 Aug 2012, 09:57 am
@trupisero-520:
Horses for courses.
24 Aug 2012, 09:58 am
@Dawn-538: sober this morning???
24 Aug 2012, 09:58 am
@sharks_lover-535: Its funny that… The Prince of Wings sending his son to Dynamite land… He must see things other WePee moffies can’t….
A bit embarrassing that one – Province and Bok Legend sends his son to the Johnny come Latelies for Rugger Lessons….
24 Aug 2012, 09:59 am
@Heavens Game-537: First stage of loss is denial.
These are super rugby stats…penny drops.
24 Aug 2012, 09:59 am
@Dawn-538: Shut up wench… And stop whistling… okay?
24 Aug 2012, 10:00 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-536: Boolands only fuller because of the Sader fans
24 Aug 2012, 10:02 am
@gunther-539:
I see if we win today we go top in all three formats.
24 Aug 2012, 10:02 am
@Heavens Game-532: @sharks_lover-534: Eish. Middle aged tag team ****** in progress…
I apologise for revving you fellows up. I should have realised that any online ‘jousting’ would result in an almost hysterical sexual reaction, disguised as ‘provincial insults’.
24 Aug 2012, 10:03 am
@goodstuff-544: Yes… Losing a semifinal is not the end of the world… But it is: a loss despite an until then “100% record”… Talk about denial leading up to and after that match… I foresaw it weeks back… Thats what made the POP so satisfying.
And then another loss in the CC, so soon after…
How’s this for a Stat in 2012:
3-1… and counting
24 Aug 2012, 10:03 am
@goodstuff-544: ok here is a noddy badge you had more supporters, you teak still could beat a Sharks team at your home ground 2 weeks in a row, a depeleted tired sharks team that had travelled a few times back and fourth to kiwi aussie etc.
SR final Sharks vs Chiefs
Stormers got P@esklapped
24 Aug 2012, 10:05 am
Indeed Jerry.
Series win to secure it would be naaice.
24 Aug 2012, 10:06 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-548: well atleast we can admit to being 2 people, you fighting us as 3 people
fugging multinickers 
and someones revved up??
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA must be goodstuff, he googling like crazy to get some facts
24 Aug 2012, 10:06 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-548: Middle aged…? How farken dare you little geekyfucker…. Call me an oldcunt or nothing…
Farken “middle aged”… what kind!?
Now go dry your legs for round two…
24 Aug 2012, 10:07 am
@Heavens Game-545: when she blows through the gap in teefs it sounds like a kettle boiling
24 Aug 2012, 10:08 am
@Heavens Game-553:
24 Aug 2012, 10:08 am
@Heavens Game-532:
Ja, money in the coffers for the semi-final but the fat cats catering bill just farked everything up.
24 Aug 2012, 10:09 am
@gunther-539: no comment
24 Aug 2012, 10:09 am
Need to pop out for some smokes… Will be back shortly to proceed shagging these little fairies
24 Aug 2012, 10:09 am
@gunther-551: hiyas boet, you okes ready for tomorrow?? lol gonna be a good game
24 Aug 2012, 10:10 am
What ever.
The two of you are boring verby.
Got each other’s wangers stuck in each other’s gobs.
24 Aug 2012, 10:13 am
@Dawn-560: “boring verby”… you mumbling now… You sure you haven’t got a wanger stuck in your’s. Sort of hooked on gap…
24 Aug 2012, 10:14 am
@Dawn-560: Dawn stop talking about PeePee’s we understand you dont get any thus you keep talking about,
24 Aug 2012, 10:15 am
@gunther-551:
They moered the Aussies 4-0 so they up for the challenge.
Wonder how KP’s doing. Saw an interview on youtube recently. Me thinks his a few floats short of a parade.
24 Aug 2012, 10:15 am
the mulitinics are running away
ag shame !!!
24 Aug 2012, 10:16 am
24 Aug 2012, 10:17 am
@Heavens Game-558: Nope, you are going to wipe yourself off…..
@sharks_lover-552: Now I am a multinic army?
Powerful. Now that HG is gone, I am guessing you will revert back to blaming all Stormer and WP fans for ‘causing trouble, swearing, and being mean’ ….Alzheimers is afuckingwonderfultooltoaidpleasers.
24 Aug 2012, 10:17 am
@Jeraldjay-563: yeah to be honest KP has serious issues,
24 Aug 2012, 10:18 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-566: calm down peewee multinic
24 Aug 2012, 10:20 am
@Dawn-560: I won’t deny them that. And neither should you. At their age and with their social skills, I reckon one takes a BJ whatever way one can get it.
24 Aug 2012, 10:20 am
@sharks_lover-550: “Stormers got P@esklapped” No I think that was the sharks in the final, was it a 30 point margin?
24 Aug 2012, 10:21 am
@sharks_lover-567:
He probably can handle the ECB officials but his teammates don’t want him back.
Troubled soul…
24 Aug 2012, 10:21 am
@sharks_lover-568: Pop quiz: When last did you have an original thought?
24 Aug 2012, 10:22 am
@goodstuff-570: Sharks_sodomiser only sees and believes what HG tells him.
24 Aug 2012, 10:22 am
@goodstuff-570: considering what the Sharks had to endure to play you at Newlands??? trust me that was P@esklap
Anyhows you shoudnt be getting yourself involved in this, you are not aware of where this all comes from
24 Aug 2012, 10:23 am
@Jeraldjay-571: yeah, so arrogant, not saying the ECB are innocent, but a player should know his place even though there is alwayts 2 sides to a story
24 Aug 2012, 10:25 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-573: hey Cnutplug, stop assuming you know me, just because you Capies love playing is the **** does not mean we all do
Fugging broke backs
24 Aug 2012, 10:26 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-573: and you wanna see a sodimiser?? look no further then ur parents, thats where you were born from
24 Aug 2012, 10:28 am
@Jeraldjay-571: Thing is did he even think before tweeting what he did?? or what he said?
24 Aug 2012, 10:28 am
@sharks_lover-575:
When anything is communicated in writing whether it is via texting, Facebook, Twitter, blogging or e-mail you should think before punching in a keys.
Then pen will always be mightier that the sword.
24 Aug 2012, 10:29 am
@sharks_lover-575: Hamburger flippers should also know their place…
@sharks_lover-574: What the Sharks had to endure? FuckmeyouarethewimpiestwashiestsupporterEVER. Endure? Tell us what they had to endure, please do? Were they tortured, nails torn out, electrodes attached to their genitals, bamboo shoved up their nostrils? Melodrama of the highest calibre.
24 Aug 2012, 10:32 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-569: Exactly… Now, daahling you are welcome anytime…. Come to Daddy… It might be shrivelled, granted, but its still a mouthful.
24 Aug 2012, 10:33 am
@sharks_lover-574: I don’t have to know, but I could tell you guys got your facts messed up about the attendence so I set you straight. Seeing as you were calling for prove and now that you have it you two are bitching like two 40 year old virgins getting their backs waxed.
24 Aug 2012, 10:34 am
@sharks_lover-576: Swiss finishing school for you old man. @sharks_lover-577: My parents have exactly what to do with your issues with me? Just curious. But on the flipside, you have just signed the permission slip allowing me to bring your wife and children into any future insults I might wish to throw about.
Would I do it though….no. Could I do it….yes.
For one that spends so much time attacking others about their behaviour and ‘class’, you seem to have the trailerparktrash blueprint **wink wink**
24 Aug 2012, 10:35 am
@Jeraldjay-556: Ja, from the looks of Oom Tobie, he has a catering budget all of his own…
24 Aug 2012, 10:36 am
@goodstuff-582: only fact here is you are showing yourself to be one very stupid prick, but as you wish no problem,
24 Aug 2012, 10:37 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-583: Doggy dishing threats…
Doodums, is she getting angry…
24 Aug 2012, 10:39 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-583: NA you showed yourself as the gutterqueen a long time ago, but i see i am getting under your skin, keep stressing cnutcucumber,
24 Aug 2012, 10:39 am
@Heavens Game-586: YUP,
24 Aug 2012, 10:39 am
@goodstuff-582: “calling for prove”… you mean “calling for proof”….
Just setting you straight… porky
24 Aug 2012, 10:40 am
@Heavens Game-584: Ya old Tobie looks like the michelin man
24 Aug 2012, 10:40 am
@goodstuff-582: Mate, Sharks_sodomiser can’t help himself. The closest he gets to any ‘****’ at all, is using the word in one or two of his posts. Allow him this simple pleasure please.
(Ignore it…..it’s just the curse of being a middle aged bling king)
24 Aug 2012, 10:45 am
@sharks_lover-587: Under my skin…nope. Tickling my brain – yes. From a purely scientific perspective of course….
How is it that an old man, (who probably has grandkids, or great grandkids), finds pleasure in ‘putting on his man disguise’, ‘pulling his sword’ and acting all’Braveheart/Shameless’ on an internet blog?
There is a study in this. Fact.
Anyhow, I have to be off for now. It’s been a pleasure.
24 Aug 2012, 10:45 am
@sharks_lover-590: Yeah…
I also got the slight suspicion that doggy might look like that too…
Her poor hubby… and the much abused sealy under them after a wild “Cape” night of passion…
Point Break – ride them waves of luuurve… and wobbles
24 Aug 2012, 10:47 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-592: Yeah… now fuckoff and go dry your legs for round three… You 2 down already….
24 Aug 2012, 10:47 am
@Heavens Game-589: Ah, pointing out spelling mistakes, a sure sign of running out of legitimate arguments or a tactic used by losers to avoid the challenge put to them.
Hows the wax going?
24 Aug 2012, 10:49 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-591:
24 Aug 2012, 10:49 am
Sheezus… what is wrong with these new fairies here… How I long for the days of the Camps Bay liberation movement… Gwantie and Mini me…. Now those were proper farken fairy legends…
24 Aug 2012, 10:51 am
The reason I don’t post much here is that things don’t change. The same old fickle and childish chirps at province supporters.
Just a gentle reminder that this is a mature site meant for mature people…
The only people who find you funny are yourselves…
Won’t bother posting here, until some people grow up…
24 Aug 2012, 10:53 am
@goodstuff-595: 1. There was no “spelling mistake”… You used the wrong word in the wrong place.
2. It was an attempt at irony – just “setting you straight” while you were in the process of “setting straight”… Capishe?
Ag… why do I bother… You’re as dumbasfuck, what was I thinking – you actually understanding Irony, of all things…
24 Aug 2012, 10:56 am
@Gumboots-598: Shutup Bill… FIFO, alright? Just responding to that fuckface Dirty Harriet… to this geeky little Dogfuck too… and other dumbasfuck hanger onner fairies… Dont come get all righteous you lilly livered twatteroo
24 Aug 2012, 10:57 am
@Gumboots-598: AAHHH GUMMYBEAR, funny, typically you ignore the posts of those that have through time started most of those issues you are against, but i am not surprised, you okes love you talk ****, but when it back fires you go into sobbing rants
24 Aug 2012, 11:00 am
@Heavens Game-600: Nope WP double adapters dont see their own little butt plugs starting anything, its fine by them. so ******* typical
24 Aug 2012, 11:02 am
@sharks_lover-602: HG old dawn now hangs onto Capo’s lips, the Same oke who a few years ago called her a slapper
24 Aug 2012, 11:04 am
@sharks_lover-602: Ja, well it looks like we sorted them out chop, chop…. six love
24 Aug 2012, 11:11 am
@sharks_lover-603: Yeah… but Prawny tends to like a bit of nasty… Treat her rough and she comes back for more and more… I reckon it excites her… brings out the whips and chains tendencies
24 Aug 2012, 11:18 am
@Heavens Game-605:
you gotta love how they come cry the injured Bambi?? they fling the insults day in and day out, maar vok hulle kan huil 
24 Aug 2012, 11:20 am
@sharks_lover-606: “maar vok hulle kan huil” Beyootiful
24 Aug 2012, 11:27 am
Heavens Game, Sharks_lover and Mrs South Africa (over 65 category) are walking over a bridge.Mrs South Africa bends to look through the railings, and her head gets stuck. HG sees this, and promptly nails her from behind (it is all over within 25 seconds). When he finishes, he shouts to Sharks_lover, “C’mon it’s your turn”. Sharks_Lover begins crying and says, “My head doesn’t fit through the railings”…..
Stop being such a bender SL, fight your own battles.
(That advice comes to you courtesy of the NGO: “Menshouldbemen”.
Back again later for some more ‘loving’.
24 Aug 2012, 11:27 am
What has blogger’s parents got to do with anything.
Leave it out.
24 Aug 2012, 11:43 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-608: PS… I know you are outraged and flapping more than a little at the temerity of some humble Sharkies… Humble sharkies who have embarrassed you and sent you repeatedly to go and powder your disjointed little nose today…. But please try an original one next time…
:allinthenameoforiginalentertainmentsmiley:
24 Aug 2012, 11:43 am
@Dawn-609: How’s your Mum, Prawny?
24 Aug 2012, 11:52 am
@Heavens Game-610: Outraged no. Amused – very
This certainly highlights the unique relationship Shakr_Lover has with anyone he deems to be ‘powerful’.
I enjoy you fellows. And as for original, when a ‘classic’ is relevant, I’ll be throwing it in.
@Heavens Game-611: I don’t think Dawn will fall for that rather juvenile attempt at ‘stirring’.
Now I really am out for a few hours, but don’t cry for me Thumbelina, the truth is, I never left you…..
24 Aug 2012, 12:09 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-612: “don’t cry for me Thumbelina, the truth is, I never left you…..ROFLMAO, thats more like it
24 Aug 2012, 12:25 pm
I see the stormersaders has been culled.
Beeyyooouuuiiittttiiiffffuuullll!
BOOM!
24 Aug 2012, 18:12 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-612: your are a total joke, you showed your lack of class the day you walk in here, trying to judge me now after i called you for what you are Bwahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaa,
You try telling people ur a lady in here?????????? a bigger BWAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
You don’t deserve even the L in Lady, And again you try to make out you know what i am like and who i like and blah blah blah,
And typically ur just another Stormersader lying sacka ****, you have lotsa nics, Yet you have told some you are new here ??
liar, so you want us to walked in here with that ID as it was your first amd you just had that hate for anything Sharks??? try a new one lady of the street lamps, Class is not a word one would use to describe you, THERE ARE SOME OTHER WORDS I COULD MENTION THAT DOES DESCRIBE YOU TO THE TEE.
As for me, those that know me, knows i am nothing like the person that is telling you what you are, but you and a few of your gat gabbas like capo aka stormerforlife and dawn who likes to walk in here and act cool yet make snide remarks about anything Sharks and of cause there are a few others etc ask for what has come your way in here, suck it up, then again street ladies are used to sucking!!!
24 Aug 2012, 20:32 pm
Jeez, will you potty mouthed Shark filth please take your conversation out back behind the toilets. You carry on like this and not only are you likely to scare away any humans but you’ve just proven the Skop is a shoo in for linguistic sainthood compared to the gutter trash conversation you are indulging in. Oh yes please prove my point by actually responding!!
24 Aug 2012, 20:41 pm
@infidel-616:
In-Fidel?
How deep?
Are you Castro’s toyboy?
24 Aug 2012, 21:52 pm
And that’s your reply, pathetic really….
24 Aug 2012, 22:00 pm
It’s quite hilarious watching the stereotypes. The Stormers supporters can be precious, the Bulls supporter, a little “challenged”, the sharks, well they’re the gutter trash. The Lions are completely deluded (ok maybe it’s shellshock). It appears as if only the Cheeters don’t have an axe to grind but then that’s probably because they never win much.
24 Aug 2012, 22:14 pm
@infidel-619: And then you have the real righteous bloggers… The self-appointed “prefects”… The moralisers, who somehow think they have a monopoly on “thou shalt not”….
Just because they somehow think they are better….
They are wrong of course…
As are you…
Dunce!
24 Aug 2012, 22:21 pm
@Heavens Game-620: And make no mistake… Often these self-righteous moralising emerge under different names – multinic c.unts – and spew libellous garbage of the worst kind…
But this Old HG
He sees thru
He sees thru them all…
24 Aug 2012, 22:26 pm
@Heavens Game-621: sheezus moralising must = moralisers
18 Oct 2012, 15:26 pm
Holy tolito, the sharky strash are out in force on this blog. LOLZ
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