Meltdown in Mendoza
26 Aug 2012
MARK KEOHANE writes South Africa’s lack of leadership in the forwards was exposed in Mendoza, as was the naivety of a pack that is unfortunately a shadow of the beasts who have worn the jersey in the past five years.
Individuals will get blamed and given the South African way it will be provincial specific, but this is not a performance of individual blame but of collective calamity in that the newbies to Test rugby were not equipped to deal with an Argentinean side that scrapped, clawed and fought for a historic first draw against the Springboks.
The lack of a specialist opensider was obvious in that there was no counter to the Pumas love for a group gathering around the ball on the floor. Heyneke Meyer said any player can fail once but there isn’t place for a second failure at Test level. His words will be put to the test because certain players are not up to Test standard and when the occasion called for heroes to emerge all we got were imposters in a green jersey.
Perspective is necessary to appreciate the vulnerability of the Bok pack, in terms of experience, impact and influence. Bismarck du Plessis is colossal and Adriaan Strauss will need grander efforts to offer an impersonation. Andries Bekker, forever the next Victor Matfield, has neither the confidence nor the brilliance to match the Bok legend, Jacques Potgieter is no Schalk Burger, Willem Alberts looked out of sorts in that selected loose-trio and for the days of a back five of Bakkies Botha, Matfield, Burger, Smith and Danie Rossouw.
There was no calmness in a frenetic opening 30 in which the Pumas were going to deliver the passion of a nation’s rugby history, given the occasion. The limitations of the Pumas meant they could only lead by 10 points at half-time despite the majority of the ball, the rub of the green and the home ground advantage.
The Boks did not deserve anything from this match, but they got plenty when it comes to a reality check. I will never understand the nonsense about not selecting foreign based players because they are not playing Super Rugby or in a development Currie Cup competition.
This match cried out for the experience of a Botha, a Joe van Niekerk and a few more who on a weekly basis star in Europe.
The pack were intimidated, they were out of their depth and they were bullied. It was embarrassing.
Still the Boks should have sneaked it when Morne Steyn missed a penalty with a few minutes to go. It was England in Port Elizabeth all over again and Steyn obviously will be the target of abuse. His job is to kick goals and when he doesn’t he stands to be judged.
Young players will be wiser and tougher for the experience but I don’t buy an argument that suggests you go to Argentina for a learning experience. Too many kids were grouped with too many provincial players in the guise of a Bok Test pack – and the results were a humiliation.
Meyer picked the side and he takes the pains, as he does the plaudits when it goes right.
The backs can only ever threaten when the Bok forwards rule and the lack of potency made for an ugly 80 minute viewing experience. Too lateral, too isolated and with no momentum. These backs were not going to find any glory in Mendoza.
Frans Steyn, individually, was strong but he was the exception to a performance that is a reminder of the quality of Springboks that went to the World Cup compared to the mediocrity of what was produced in Argentina.
The hosts have beaten Australia previously, beaten France and in recent years been a minute away from beating the All Blacks. The shorter and narrower pitch did not help, but it did expose a team that failed to adapt to the intensity and mongrel of the hosts.
It was a humbling experience for those of us who watched, but it will forever be a humiliating one for those who played. Not so the boys from Argentina.
987 Comments
25 Aug 2012, 23:30 pm
Comrads,
I’m sorry to say, but as a South African rugby coach, you do not get 3 or 4 seasons to build a team. You get judged on your performances from the word go by us the fans. It’s tough but that’s the way it should be… We are a world class rugby nation and we deserve a world class coach. We do not tolerate averageness in coaches. We expect successful, healthy rugby from start to finish. Anything less is simply not acceptable.
Heyneke Meyer has not only applied a one dimensional game plan to a world class side, but he has telegraphed his game plan to the rest of the rugby world, thereby facilitating easy analysis of how we play. Common sense dictates that this is an unsmart approach.
Heyneke Meyer is the man who told Pierre Spies to give up a career in the backline and play in the forwards. He took an elite athlete who is the same size and build as Sonny Bill Williams and the same speed as Habana and told him to play in the forwards, where he would be one of the smaller players and where his speed would not be used… Spies would have been one the world’s superstar backline players. Running from deep with that type of size and speed would have been difficult to stop, but instead he is now masquerading as a forward where he only gets to run 7 meters from the base of a scrum before he gets tackled (thereby nullifying his speed)… Spies should have been a world class backline player, but is instead an average forward…. Heyneke Meyer is the man responsible for this.
The Springboks (until today) had beaten Argentina in every rugby encounter in history between these 2 nations. Heyneke Meyer is the man responsible for relinquishing that record.
As South African rugby fans, we should expect nothing less than excellence from the Springboks. We are indeed one of world’s power houses of rugby. To produce excellence, we need a world class coach. This is what we deserve. Instead, we have a man who repeats “Kick and Chase” a million times a day as if a ‘One Size Fits All’ approach could ever be the right approach for a team who strives for excellence.
Gentlemen, we not only have a coach who has demonstrated his rugby stupidity (as per the Pierre Spies example), but we have a coach whose one dimensional approach has been exposed in his first season with the Boks… This must not stand.
We must remove this man from office. We must give the Boks the world class coach they deserve. The time to act is now.
25 Aug 2012, 23:32 pm
Lack of leadership is no excuse. De Villiers had the chance to let Steyn kick about three penalties over but went for a scrum or the corner to no avail. Steyn should have just said “trust me.” Even with his erratic kicking, one of those three penalties would have gone over.
25 Aug 2012, 23:32 pm
After the previous game in SA wherein the Boks were appallingly poor, this very fortunate, and indeed underserved draw in Argentina is a very clear reflection that Heineke Meyer is completely off-the-ball (out of touch?) in terms of both game strategy AND team selection. There is absolutely NO creative thinking on the park at all. Just mindless repetition of a tried and tested (and found to be wanting) game plan, as played by the Bulls in years long gone.
There was an interesting article on ESPN Cricinfo concerning the change in fortunes of the SA Cricket side entitled.
“South Africa’s new mindset brings rewards”
I quote from that:
“To get there, they needed a different perspective. South African sport was, and in some places still is, conducted like the army in its rigidity and focus to discipline. It was not a space to be creative. It was not a space to introduce too many outrageous ideas. It was not a space to express. It was a space to do as you had been taught because that was the way that would breed success. If they failed, and there were times when they did, it was never the method that was at fault, only the way they were executing it.”
The Boks and Meyer in particular desperately needs that sort of new-thinking and creativity. Meyer used to be able to be capable of innovative, even daring thinking before and even during his reign at the Bulls – but came a cropper in the UK with Leicester (ostensibly due to “family reasons”). That begs the question: has Heineke lost his nerve and now lacks the courage and self belief to dare think outside the box? And thus he selects players that he feels will deliver his overly- conservative approach and not expose him to any form of ridicule for trying something new?
If so SA will continue to be embarrassed, and indeed humiliated at the unbelievably average performance of the Boks.
At least the Wallabies had a very solid and promising first 30 minutes against New Zeeland – who are a much, much better team than Argentina (courageous and smart thought he latter may be). SA has not had so much as a promising THREE minutes in two matches against the Argentines.
25 Aug 2012, 23:33 pm
i blame oregan hoskins if he had employed Pdv for only rugby reasons this stupid notion that heyneke was a better coach would not have rooted itself in sa rugby culture, bwahahahahahahaha
25 Aug 2012, 23:37 pm
Im starting to loose interest in watching this type of rugby …
never thought I’d say this … But HM at the moment worse than the previous bok coaches we had … Too one-dimensional game plan (or lack there of) and favors certain individuals …
I don’t think any of the players were good enough today …
scoring a try by “charge down” not creative enough …
Forwards were bullied today …
Backs too many up and unders and skip passes when going through hands were required.
HM better sort it out ASAP … With his team selections and game plan …
25 Aug 2012, 23:38 pm
it is times like this when i am proud to be part of a country with such a tremendous rugby culture.let all the creeps and doomsdayers *** crawling out of the woodwork shame on them.Today i am proud to be a new zealander
Bwahahahahahahahhhahahaha
25 Aug 2012, 23:38 pm
I haven’t seen the Boks play this badly in years. Daniel was the only one who showed any leadership, but he’s not a bulls player so like Lambie and Pienaar the only other X factor players in the team he will warm the bench. Bash and flop
Potgieter and that idiot in the 15 jersey did a great job of, well, bash and flop.
25 Aug 2012, 23:40 pm
Congrats to Argentina. Well done.
25 Aug 2012, 23:41 pm
@cyberscamp-3: That begs the question: has Heineke lost his nerve and now lacks the courage and self belief to dare think outside the box? And thus he selects players that he feels will deliver his overly- conservative approach and not expose him to any form of ridicule for trying something new?
Im sure many can see the irony in that
25 Aug 2012, 23:41 pm
@Kaizan-1: sorry I disagree. Spies to be a super star backline player would need to be able to catch a ball…which we all know he cannot.
What most people forget is that in 1982 (I may be wrong with the year) a South American team toured SA and beat us. The team on the day comprised 14 Argentinians and 1 Uruguayan. It was a sanctions busting team. In affect it was an Argentinian team.
25 Aug 2012, 23:45 pm
Lambie is an average fullback at best
jaco taute
aplon
pietersen
jpp
ludick all better
at flyhalf he has
jantjies
goosen to contend with
25 Aug 2012, 23:45 pm
Heineken Meyer is a formulaic coach of a formulaic game-plan which relies on faith rather than logic, size rather than skill or speed and which is totally useless without a brilliant 80%+ goal-kicker from anywhere in his own half. He has already been weighed and found wanting. And he doesn’t even have the excuse that he is only a quota deployee for being out of his depth.
Hire John Mitchell, asap.
25 Aug 2012, 23:45 pm
My heart felt so sad to see our mighty Boks play such stupid utter useless rubbish rugby. Kick and more kick and crash ball. Terrible game plan we looked clueless out there.
Here I was thinking we could beat the Blacks at FNB. NO WAY we will never beat them with this daft backward game plan. NOT EVER. So disappointed.
We should also always take our points. Why did we not take all our penalties? Steyn is there to kick mostly so why not? Anyhow that is not the way I want to win, want to see us playing some good attractive rugby. Not this utter c r a p. Something has to be done. Meyer will have to bring in some help otherwise see us coming last in the Championship and losing all our eoyt games too.
We need to bring back Brussow for the Oz and Nz tour. Need Ruan to start as well. Hougie is not a scrumhalf. Need a thinking fh that will get our backs away. Man we even had Mvovo kicking and he hardly does that at Sharks he finds the gaps. Here we have him kicking. What a shame, what a waste. Meyer is not up to it if this is our game plan.
25 Aug 2012, 23:46 pm
@XV-10: but wasnt it was the jaguars
25 Aug 2012, 23:47 pm
but it wansnt it was the jaguars
25 Aug 2012, 23:48 pm
So nothing to do with our **** gameplan then?
25 Aug 2012, 23:48 pm
carlos spencer eddie jones david campese
pick ur choice for backline coach they sure as hell cant come from here
25 Aug 2012, 23:49 pm
@XV-10: Players get better under the high ball. JP Pietersen used to be atrocious and now he is solid in that aspect. Regardless, Spies would have been a very serious threat to opposition defense if he had been developed as a centre (or to a lesser extent, a wing). 110 kg’s running at blistering pace would have been a potent attacking weapon.
To bring the discussion back to its main point, Heyneke Meyer is causing more harm thabn good in South African rugby.
25 Aug 2012, 23:49 pm
@saru1983-9: Que?
25 Aug 2012, 23:51 pm
@TheTackler-12: are you insane one uitkak session and twice around the field and these prima donnas will threaten to strike
25 Aug 2012, 23:52 pm
@saru1983-17: Even Hawies Fourie would add some value there.
25 Aug 2012, 23:53 pm
@Puma-13: Why are you so surprised? Everyone (who doesn’t wear blinkers) KNEW what was coming…..from the day the man was appointed and made his 1st utterly floppy statements on public platforms.
In fact, most here have been trying to warn all the “Positive Patsies” for weeks.
I’m astounded that so many bloggers feel ‘betrayed, bewildered and confused’ by what happened this evening. And I mean that with the greatest respect (to some…)
25 Aug 2012, 23:54 pm
@saru1983-14: yes that was the name they toured under. In affect it was the Argentinian team.
25 Aug 2012, 23:55 pm
@XV-10: You are correct. They were called the Jaguars at the time. Most of that team were from Arg one was from one of the other South American teams.
25 Aug 2012, 23:56 pm
@Kaizan-18: Yes I know what your main point is. I am concerned that Meyer is only comfortable working with people of the same culture.
25 Aug 2012, 23:56 pm
Nick Mallet hit the nail on the head in the post-match analysis .Lambie or Goosen need to be given the 10 jersey ,the latter worries me with his fragility ,another option is Butch who is still putting in some huge performances for the Lions. There are a handful of better 10s running around the CC than Morne Steyn bar the greek who is a poor man’s Steyn.
25 Aug 2012, 23:57 pm
We need a fetcher, if Brussouw’s injured, and although the Province guys hate him, Stegmann would can’t be worse than Potgieter. Minnie could also get a chance
We need brawn and balls at lock, we don’t have an enforcer
We need to get the two locks from Stade Francais, Mostert and Anton van Zyl, they’ll bring experience to the pack and Mostert won’t back down
Potgieter can be replaced by Elstadt, Rhodes or Strauss
If Hougaard wants to be a Bok it will be on the wing period
Morne needs to go and get his mojo back, Jantjies showed his cool head today, he won’t disapoint
25 Aug 2012, 23:59 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-22: No I was not surprised after our performance from last week. Thought this could happen.
Still very disappointed to see us play this backward utter rubbish rugby. Pathetic game plan.
25 Aug 2012, 23:59 pm
Brainless brainless rugby from from the Boks. They Need a leader in that pack desperately. Bring back Bakkies. I’d even go as far as bringing back Smit in Bismarks injury absence if it means leadership, consistency and a front foot power pack with some sort of playing direction.
You start to realize just how good Victor, Bakkies, Smit, Schalk & Juan Smith were. And Fourie Du Preez.
They also need a 10 who can create, I( hope this Goosen fella has the goods at Test level) and please not Kirchner again at fullback! Lambie every day.
And we missed JPP, although Mvovo played well.
Disappointing
26 Aug 2012, 00:00 am
@XV-25: Me too
26 Aug 2012, 00:01 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-22: Bekker too not great at all. Think we need Kruger back.
Ag, if we play this daft game plan don’t matter who we select. We will look clueless again and again. Need this game plan to change.
26 Aug 2012, 00:04 am
@Charging Rhino-29: hahaha. I was going to post that here but thought I would be attacked the whole time. I too would bring back John Smit for the rest of this years RC. Until we get Bissie back next year. At least our leadership will be top class. Our scrum will be a whole lot better too.
3 times too we went for corners or scrum when we had penalties. Should always go for poles especially when we damn well needed the points.
Anyhow that is not how I want us to win, want us to win playing attractive rugby.
26 Aug 2012, 00:06 am
firstly, heyneke MUST GO
secondly, who to replace him with?
i think we need to accept the fact, that the coaches in this country are not good enough, especially at our provincial coaches.
we have completely lost the plot
politics aside, i think its time we go back to an old wise head
instead of these overly analytical robots we call coaches
why not Nick Mallett?
the dream of politics and sports never mixing seems far away
26 Aug 2012, 00:07 am
@Charging Rhino-29: Today I would have brought Lambie on at flyhalf. Wasted on the bench. He was right there and should have been used.
3 min to go and what does Morne do? He has the ball and bloody kicks it.
26 Aug 2012, 00:08 am
the senior players better start taking over now and stop this sinking ship
26 Aug 2012, 00:09 am
@jacoshark-33: Doubt Mallett wants to work with the Boks again. He would be working with saru once again. Don’t think he will want too. He would be far better than Meyer.
26 Aug 2012, 00:09 am
can anyone please summarise Mallets synopsis on the Boks for me…..
26 Aug 2012, 00:10 am
@Kaizan-1: Well said I agree fully. Spies would have been a mighty wing – he doesnt have the constitution nor attitude to be a hardnosed Read type of 8 and his speed is wasted.
Our one dimensional kick chase bash up crash ball rugby is beyond stupid now. And all this k@k about it being our traditional strenght ?? Utter nonsense – back in 1976 through the 80´s and early 90´s our teams played damn exciting backline rugby running it whenvever they could. Even Naas Botha didnt kick that much. We are sterotyping ourselves as dumb bullocks running about huffing and puffing – except we arent the only big boys on the block anymore which effectively nullifies that tactic. These Boks were shameful to the man tonight.
Not one player was good enough – some played ok but none exceptionally. Potgieter must go, so must Houghaard at scrumhalf, M Steyn left 6 points out there and Frans another 6 – had they kicked their goals we would have won by 12 – kind of respectable but even if they did not with that style of play. Bitterly dissapointed. Heyneke Meyers selection policy has been dubious since the start but now he is showing how naive and one dimensional he is as a coach too. Who picks these idiots? Wake the F up man!!!! All you have to do is look at the All Blacks to know how to play effective rugby. Beyond idiotic.
26 Aug 2012, 00:12 am
@jacoshark-33: Naka Drotske – he does wonders with second rate players at the Cheetahs and theyre playing some damn nice rugby. Certainly cant be worse than any of these other muppets.
26 Aug 2012, 00:12 am
Heyneke still uses the gameplan DomVlok Cilliers concocted for him in 2007 and we all know DomVlok fits the Dumb, Dumber, Dumbest bill perfectly. Well, DomVlok se polisieplanne werk nie meer nie. Heyneke will pay the price for that set of under-average coaching assistants he borrowed from the Bulls. The forward coach for instance is the son of the Bulls’ CEO, Van Graan. The others are rejects who Ludeke gladly sacrificed for the cause. Heyneke won’t make the next World Cup finals. His policy of jobs for pals and his teacher’s pet mentality will sink him.
26 Aug 2012, 00:13 am
@Puma-36:
hes too outspoken for the suits sitting fat at the top of SARU
but we really do need a change of coach
cause from what ive seen, this coaching team is abunch of amateurs
stuck in the year 2007
26 Aug 2012, 00:13 am
@Puma-32: I read your posts above and they mimic my thoughts too. Especially the first post.
Jeepers they need something after that display. Absolutely directionless. Too many inexperienced players at Test level not knowing what to do.
The Smit haters may hate but his record stands and his tight play and set piece play is unparalleled, I’d rate him 2nd behind Bismark, and therefore our current best option. How many lineouts were a ballsup!!??? Smit-Matfield partnership was unrivaled.
Anyway I’m not saying bring back Smit, that’s a but too far but Flippen heck Meyer has to do something to get more experience and a player or 2 with a “no retreat attitude” who’s been proven at test level into that pack and at least one fetcher type player.
26 Aug 2012, 00:16 am
And I saw comments that the Wallabies were off the pace we were c r a p. Don’t under estimate how good the All black team are. I actually hoped that the Bokks might be strong enough to take them on. The Wallabies aren’t that is for sure, remember there is always next week
26 Aug 2012, 00:17 am
@Puma-34: Ja, when we needed sometng Lambie wouldve been best at 10. Most times Morne or Kirchner touched the ball I just thought… “Ah No…..”
26 Aug 2012, 00:21 am
One doesn’t have to be Siener van Rensburg to see that the next Rudolf Straeuli has arrived.
26 Aug 2012, 00:21 am
Bringing in the likes of:
Gurthro Steenkamp
Bakkies Botha
Danie Rossow
Heinrich Brussow
Joe Van Niekerk
Ryan Kankowski
Should at least prevent Boks from being bullied
But
Still highly unlikey to win with this domkrag approach that has no effect except to give the opposition an advantage.
26 Aug 2012, 00:22 am
@Charging Rhino-44: Yip should have brought Lambie on. Not even sure why he was on this tour just to sit on the bench.
@Charging Rhino-42: I would bring Smit back to help us through this patch until Bissie is back. He is still our 2nd best hooker. Doubt Meyer will do that though.
Some changes have to be done. Most of all our game plan. But some players just not up to it.
Just very disappointed to see us playing rubbish like that.
Anyhow out of here now bud. Cheers catch up tomorrow.
@jacoshark-41: Agree. Cheers. Going to bed now. Catch up tomorrow.
26 Aug 2012, 00:23 am
Great to have some astute analysis from Supersport commentary team.
Appreciated their post-match comments.
26 Aug 2012, 00:23 am
Smit was the worst f’ng captain of all time… worst Bok record under his non existent leadership.. go count how many wins Smit led Boks through 2010 -2011.. 2 from 13.. and that was IT…
Meyer got very little clue and now we going to start hitting panic street.. Aussie just got to klap us next and I reckon Meyer might hop off the bus without too much of a agterent shove from the skop skiet en jag circuit.
26 Aug 2012, 00:24 am
Daniel made a difference because he used his brain when he came on.
Adrian Strauss played the worst game of rugby I’ve ever seen him play.
And Bekker hasn’t been inspiring for the longest time.
26 Aug 2012, 00:25 am
@SAussie/QldRed-43: haha. There we thought your team were no good today. They will beat this Bok side in Perth mate if we play like we done today.
All Blacks are in a class of their own. I too thought Boks might take them on. WE WILL NEVER not the way we played today.
26 Aug 2012, 00:25 am
Forwards were bullied Keo but it goes a bit deeper than that. The game plan itself is not versatile enough to equip a bunch of players on the field (whomever is picked for that particular game) with a realistic chance of winning should the opposition deal with it and counter it. It’s too rigid.
The kick-chase works brilliantly with the right personnel on the field, but when they’re not there, it amounts to watching a bunch of guys pissing against the wind for 80 mins.
26 Aug 2012, 00:29 am
Been saying since 2010 that M Steyn was part of Boks problems….what an absolute shambles.
But it starts up front, and when I was shocked to the core when Brussow was not included in a 40 man Bok training squad I started doubting HM….
It took an injury to get rid of Spies…….lets hope it took this calamity I have had to endure tonight to see the back of M Steyn once and for all as well……and please HM rethink your need of 3 huge loose forwards, get over yourself and get Brussow , F louw or even Steggmann back at 6…the breakdowns are now beyond a joke.
A Bekker must be dropped….
J Potgieter must be dropped.
JDV is no 13….
Not convinced Hougaard is a 9….
Alberts is a 7….not an 8…
Marcelle Coetsee is a 7 or 8…not a 6….
Heavens knows we are going to miss Bissy…..
steep road ahead….hell we need Mallet…this Boring Boks is killing my passion for the game…truly…
26 Aug 2012, 00:31 am
Bekker proved beyond a shadow of a doubt in this match that he has no business in a Bok jersey. Shameful.
26 Aug 2012, 00:36 am
@kaksioek-54: very true….Juandre Kruger should never have been dropped imo….
26 Aug 2012, 00:38 am
@grant10-55: It’s tragic to see how frail and limited a once great player has become. His back is obviously permanently damaged. He is finished.
26 Aug 2012, 00:40 am
@grant10-53:
you going to drop the whole team, how about dropping the coach?
I can remember you saying Meyer was going to be a good hire last year, but truth is, based on his record he can only coach in one way.
26 Aug 2012, 00:42 am
Congratulations Argentina. Great to have you in the competition. You deserved that and were robbed.
All Blacks are going to put +50 on us, and we will not beat Australia either despite Keo’s usual bashing article when they lose to New Zealand.
Or gameplan is antiquated and the players unable to think.
We do not have one line-breaker gamechanger in the back line.
Jacques Potgieter is the hair obsessed Wynand Olivier of the forwards.
Bekker is the tallest wing in the world.
JdV is a 12.
We need a Robert Ebersohn at 13. Jean De Jongh.
Morne Steyn is pedestrian in extreme. Lambie please.
We were nailed at the breakdown, Derek Minnie, Brussow, etc, etc.
Alberts the wrecking ball will not last.
Everyone knows that you match the Boks physically in the first 20 and you are home sailing, especially if you have pace and invention out wide, and keep teh ball alive.
26 Aug 2012, 00:43 am
@grant10-55: aye
26 Aug 2012, 00:43 am
Gurthro Steenkamp
Bakkies Botha
Danie Rossouw
Heinrich Brussow
Siya Kolisi
Francois Louw
Ryan Kankowski
Joe Van Niekerk
Fourie Du Preez
Jacques Fourie
Why can’t these players be in the Bok squad again?
26 Aug 2012, 00:44 am
@Big Hit-57: I believe that Grant wanted Mallet or Mitchell or both.
26 Aug 2012, 00:45 am
Gurthro Steenkamp
Heinrich Brussow
Siya Kolisi
Francois Louw
Joe Van Niekerk
26 Aug 2012, 00:46 am
Nothing new here… I’ve been saying it since the RWC exit…
Bok pack has no clue on how to hunt as a unit… where any support runners (including backs) hit the rucks and clean-out opposition en-masse in at least two and three’s… and counter-ruck with vigour on opposition ball…
Until then teams like this will slow ball down and the limited Bok game-plan which relies on quick ball will be thwarted…
AB’s support and ruck-play on own and opposition ball from all 22 is the benchmark… could the Boks at least try and copy this or they haven’t a hope in hell of getting near them.
26 Aug 2012, 00:46 am
@SodaJoe-61: he did, but if I recall correctly was also happy to hear Meyer was in the mix. To be honest the Bulls best years of rugby came under Ludeke.
26 Aug 2012, 00:47 am
I thought Etzebeth had a decent game.
But their #5 was man of the match. Good lock, fast as a loosie, and as good at Brussow or Bismarck when it comes to fetching and stealing.
26 Aug 2012, 00:47 am
Will Meyer take Brussow, Deysel and Vermeulen to Australia and New Zealand?
Will it make a difference if he does?
26 Aug 2012, 00:47 am
@Big Hit-57: I wanted Mallet or Mitchell…
I would have J De Jongh at 13
Juandre Kruger at 5 [ Bekker looks injured ]….
Brussow / F Louw at 6
Alberts at 7.
Vermeulen at 8
R Pienaar at 9
J Goosen/ Lambie / Jantjes at 10 [ M Steyn is a liability ]…..
When Taute fit would look at him at 15…
Mallet….huge bonus….HM has so far been a huge dissapointment…
26 Aug 2012, 00:47 am
@Big Hit-64: Biggles. I think we were all so desperate to get rid of PdV that we would have celebrated you coaching the Boks.
26 Aug 2012, 00:48 am
@puff-66: I don’t think we need Deysel. But if he doesn’t take Vermulen he is dof.
How is he playing in Currie Cup by the way.
26 Aug 2012, 00:49 am
Van Hondkak, na Bokkak, na MEYERBLUEBULLSHIT!
26 Aug 2012, 00:50 am
anyway….outta here..sad day for Boks….
26 Aug 2012, 00:50 am
Vermeulen’s taking a while to warm up again but Deysel is on fire!
26 Aug 2012, 00:51 am
these toss arses wanting Fourie Du Preez.. same toss arses that were wanting Pienaar to start..
Hougaard gotta STAY at 9 throughout.. with Hougaard running the game Boks were firing off the front foot.. only problem is the dumb ignoramus coach has the WRONG set of players in his PACK and the WRONG man at first five 8ths…
DUMB moronic backward thinking DROLL
NO to Bakkie Botha.. NO to FdP, NO to John the hopeless fckup Smit..
Go Forward you dumb ignoramus poephols .. NOT backward in turbo f’ng REVERSE…
26 Aug 2012, 00:51 am
15. Fat Steyn
14. Frankie Hollywood
13. Robert Ebersohn
12. Jean De Viliers
11. Habana
10. Elton Jantjes
9, Ruan Pienaar
8. Duane Vermulen
7. Willem Alberts
6. Derek Minnie
5. Juandre Kruger
4. Eben Etzebeth
3. Pat Cilliers
2. Strauss
1. Beast
26 Aug 2012, 00:51 am
@grant10-67: Mitchell turned out well lol.
To be honest man, all your changes are just re-arranging deckchairs on the titanic if the boks are limited to playing a certain way.
@SodaJoe-68: pdv doesn’t look so bad now
26 Aug 2012, 00:52 am
@fitz1ella-73: Well i sort of agree with your argument, but hard to agree with how you say it.
26 Aug 2012, 00:53 am
Pienaar is hopeless man
Hougaard was FIRING tonight
Hougaard, Alberts and Etsebeth the ONLY 3 BOKS worthy of the name tonight
and one lucky packet Frans Steyn who didn’t do f’all else except charge down a lucky packet try
26 Aug 2012, 00:53 am
@Big Hit-75: Honestly I think you are a better coach. And I think Grant is better than DickThePrick.
Worst coaching staff of all time.
26 Aug 2012, 00:54 am
@fitz1ella-73:
Would never call for Pienaar to start.
Fragile, hates to tackle.
Fourie Du Preez all the way.
Boks need a decision-maker to run the game!
26 Aug 2012, 00:54 am
This is only the beginning
This is the worst performance I’ve ever seen from any post isolation Bok squad
It was an embarrassment
Worse was Meyer’s post match interview blaming “experience”…That has NOTHING to do with the fact that Boks r as predictable as F*CK!!!
Match physically that’s it.
26 Aug 2012, 00:55 am
I understand he hasn’t been fantastic this year however I do feel that Hougaard played well today, especially when we were going forward, providing quick front foot ball.
26 Aug 2012, 00:55 am
@fitz1ella-77: Fat Steyn needs to actually pass, just once, a game.
Frankie Hollywood is not great at 9. You confuse activity for productivity.
26 Aug 2012, 00:56 am
@mshiniwami-80:
The All Blacks are licking their lips.
26 Aug 2012, 00:56 am
@puff-79: I think Pienaar looks good actually, and getting better.
@fantasticbarnsmell-81: see post 82.
I like him on the wing a lot actually.
26 Aug 2012, 00:57 am
@SodaJoe-84:
Quick to ball, crisp pass.
But ask him to tackle and what happens?
26 Aug 2012, 00:58 am
Meyer the messiah
Bekker
Potgieter
Coetzee is NOT a openside
Hougaard-tryin to be a DuPreez clone
Morne
De Villiers
Kirchner
Boks playing handicapped.
26 Aug 2012, 01:00 am
@mshiniwami-86: agree – see post 74.
26 Aug 2012, 01:00 am
PdV was a GOOD coach who got HIJACKED by a bunch of overrated hack job senior schmucks pulling a coup d’etat over his head..
Pdv’S one and only failure was sticking with fat funk deluxe John the Lardass Smit..
All PdV had to do was shunt that heap of overrated lard OUT the back of the bus and he would have been a success..
and he should have shunted Fourie Du Preez out at more or less same time too..
WC 2011 was HIS to be had for 3 little decisions
Start Hougaard, Bismark and Alberts over FdP, Smit and Spies and NOT have Burger at first receiver. and the WC 2011 was PdV’s on a plate..
Instead he listened to all the dumb bewildered SCHMUCKS who thought John Smit oozed leadership and FdP was God’s gift to SA rugby and Schalk Burger was simply indestructible…
That is HOW he LOST the 2011 WC..
26 Aug 2012, 01:00 am
@puff-85: How ould you like
6. Minnie
7. Deysel
8. Alberts
26 Aug 2012, 01:00 am
@SodaJoe-82: i think with the right approach/strategy he can be effective at 9. if you want a kicking or tactical SH then he’s obviously not the man for the job, however i do believe he is incredibly effective when we’re playing quick, front-foot, running rugby. just my 2c. he fantastic on the wing too, i do agree.
26 Aug 2012, 01:02 am
@mshiniwami-86:
No Bismark, Brussow, Burger, Smith, Du Preez, Fourie, Pieterson
And Rossouw, Louw, Vermeulen, Kankowski.
Handicapped indeed.
Or rather short-staffed.
But the point being made is valid – players only part of problem.
Game plan needs variation!
26 Aug 2012, 01:02 am
@fitz1ella-88:
Skops.
Nah.
Hopeless coach. Hopeless support staff.
Insecure, so KEPT Smit – his choice.
26 Aug 2012, 01:04 am
1. Beast (Guthro)
2. Bismarck (Fourie/Rallapelle) get rid of Teddie and Liebenberg and Burden now
3. Cilliers, coetsee or wp or CJ – i dont care who but get someone who hits rucks with effect not leans on them to get their stats up
4. Elstadt – no one else Elstadt – he is the only worldclass enforcer in SA at present. if he moers someone – give him a gdam bonus that is preciselyt what roncero needed
5. Estebetth or Kruger – take your pick (Bekker not picked til he plays tighter and he can do)
6. Brussow – how he was left out is a mystery to rival the bermuda triangle
7. Kolisi – obvious – enough with the pet Bloubul Potgieter experiemtn
8. Alberts – Meyers only decent selection upfront, the ONLY one todate’
9. Hougaard – no more kickchase
10. goosen, pienaar, lambie, morne – who cares, no more kickchase,
11. habana
12. Frans, Meyers ONLY good selection in the backline
13. JdJ
14. JdV
15. Aplon, no more kirchner, the boks need to pose a threat and they can, play the game ffs.
26 Aug 2012, 01:05 am
@fantasticbarnsmell-90: The challenge is that continually being on the front foot is rare if you’re not the All Blacks.
We need a considered head at 9.
Where is our Carter. Our Richie. Our Sonny Bill. Nonu. Dagg.
Vermulen is a Kieran Read clone.
26 Aug 2012, 01:05 am
@fitz1ella-88:
Schalk Burger was fantastic suring 2011 RWC.
Yes, he tried to run the ball from try line instead of passing to a kicker which was an error.
But, other than that, he was awesome.
Du Preez was rushed back from injury too soon and that dropped ball over the tryline was unforgivable.
But, when fit, he is class and streets ahead of anyone else in SA when it comes to dictating a game.
Smit believe he could do it, but he should have called it a day after his 100th test.
26 Aug 2012, 01:06 am
Fourie du Preez don’t have a STITCH of the BMT that Hougaard has.. Pienaar is KAK bang and let that little scrummy slip straight through him
FdP, Smit, Spies and Burger cost Boks the 2011 WC..
Hougaard was ABSOLUTELY SPOT ON tonight..firing off the front foot all game long.. not his fault that the resty of the morons couldn’t do SQUAT with his rifling distribution and FAST front foot ball…. Go Watch the game AGAIN and SEE who is on the ball and who is way behind..
ONLY Hougaard, Alberts and Etsebeth pitched up… ALL other Boks were AWOL
HM is an idiot who don’t know how to pick a team
Pisspie to pick a winning Bok team but these moegoe coaches don’t have a f’ng CLUE in the world…
26 Aug 2012, 01:07 am
@cab-93: I think Elstadt is a great 7 actually way bigger, way faster and way harder than Blowdry Potgieter. I think Kruger Etzebeth is a good combo.
26 Aug 2012, 01:07 am
@SAussie/QldRed-43:
And sorry to say but this AB team is yet to get into 3rd gear.
ABs performance is in patches really good. But the ABs of last year and before had a consistency about them. These Abs this year have not got that yet. Just look out when they do.
About the Boks, with some of these blind as posters….the Boks are only one win away from being world beaters again, this game will be forgotten if they win in perth, its a fact.
26 Aug 2012, 01:08 am
@puff-95: Schalk Burger was fantastic surfing 2011 RWC
Shaun Thompson returns
26 Aug 2012, 01:09 am
@SodaJoe-94:
Our Carter is playing his rugby in Japan.
Our McCaw is injured.
Our Nonu is also playing rugby in Japan.
There is only one Sonny Bill Williams.
And I am starting to think there is only one Israel Dagg.
26 Aug 2012, 01:10 am
@Hurricane-98: Bud. I agree with AB’s being in 3′rd gear.
Having watched all the games in the new era, Boks are disjointed, unimaginative, one-dimensional and totally not in the same league as AB’s.
The only team that will match AB’s this year is Wales. Fit, Fast, Young. Ambitious. Talented.
26 Aug 2012, 01:10 am
@puff-83:
I dont think we are.
ABs have still yet to show a performance that compares to latter years.
We of course have in parts. I think this AB team at the moment is trying to score a try of every play. We need to calm it down a bit, the tries well come through constant pressure.
Boks will need to come right in the next game. If they lose to OZ they will implode.
26 Aug 2012, 01:11 am
@puff-100: Who is our Carter in Japan?
26 Aug 2012, 01:11 am
@fitz1ella-96: Well said sir… Hougaard had a great game. His distribution from the rucks was lightning quick. And when you consider how disruptive the Argies were at the breakdown, it makes his performance even better.
Ruan Pienaar has been a liability for the Boks in the past and his performance today was no different.
26 Aug 2012, 01:12 am
@puff-95: Burger carried the ball more than ANY other player in the 1/4 final vs Aus.. and how many TRIES did we score
…
Zero .. Fokol.. thats how many..
and the ONE try that Aussie scored Burger handed to them ON a plate.. IN our red zone. because he was standing at First receiver..
The Rassie Erasmus blue print that back fired SO f’ng bad.. the ONE time Aussie got a sniff they scored.. and EVERY other time Burger carried the ball to forever never land and DIED with it.. we didn’t..!!!
Simple sticks.. no rocket science required..!!!
Goddamitt !!
26 Aug 2012, 01:13 am
@fitz1ella-105: I am much more worried about beating Australia and New Zealand this year, than losing to them in the past.
Can’t change the past.
26 Aug 2012, 01:14 am
@SodaJoe-101:
I am a bit worried about these Pumas.
I mean they pushed us here in NZ only last year.
The way they played tonight/morning has got me a bit worried.
Boks helped them i must say but they now have a draw and would want to carry on with this momentum into the next game. There forwards are mean and aggressive, its going to be a showdown i must say.
26 Aug 2012, 01:14 am
Any way – see you through the window. Time to braai.
26 Aug 2012, 01:16 am
@SodaJoe-108:
Enjoy mate, see ya next time.
26 Aug 2012, 01:18 am
Our Dan Carter is in Japan.. are these idiots THAT f’ng bamboozled by f’ng fuckadilly hero worship??
Godfokenverdompt !!
Fire the f’ng COACH and start playing RUGBY with the heaps of TALENT under your f’ng NOSE.. dumbfck twats..!!!!
You telling me with ALL the talent at SA rugby disposal you need to go running to Japan to bring back your chicken arsed f’ng HASbeen Dan Carter gone f’ng WRONG..???
26 Aug 2012, 01:20 am
Hurricane – what is your take (as a kiwi) on Francois Hougaard? I think I am one of only a few Saffas who thinks he is better overall than Ruan Pienaar at scrumhalf. Although his kicking is not completely up to scratch, he gets much quicker distribution from the rucks.
Just interested to get a kiwi perspective.
Also – please drop Carter, SBW, Dagg, McCaw and Read when you play us. Thanks.
26 Aug 2012, 01:27 am
@Kaizan-111:
Hougaard played excellent in todays game.
I too think he is a wonderful halfback. I believe he needs a bit of extra/better coaching in some aspects of his game, maybe its just time but i think he has played himself into halfback and is deserved to be there.
Those Kiwi players you mentioned….sorry mate we need them, but i think we could do without Carter for a bit, i believe he isnt playing his best.
26 Aug 2012, 01:28 am
@fitz1ella-110:
lol
So on that, keep away from Japan
26 Aug 2012, 01:31 am
@Kaizan-111:
Nothing wrong with Hougaard the BIG problem is the goddam rugby public and coaches here who think FDP is the Dan Carter of SA rugby.. so they try and CONVERT Hougaard into a kick and chase FdP merchant..
Hougaard was DYNAMITE tonight.. ALL he needed were some strike runners who could DO something with all the quick service he was dishing up off EVERY breakdown..
Instead we got idiots who pick teams based on SENTIMENT and NOT reality…
Coetsee is NO No.6, Alberts is Not a No.8.. Potgieter is NOT a Springbok rugby player full stop.. and neither is Spies…
Etsebeth is a No.5 lock.. NOT a no.4 enforcer.. and Strauss is NOT a Bismark replacement at 2… but Deon Fourie would be.
and Hougaard needs a no.10 who can read and run the play.. NOT kick it once AGAIN into no mans land.
26 Aug 2012, 01:32 am
At the end of June I called for this squad to be the Boks rugby championship squad…I mean theu coulny have gone much worse woth mine than today:
15 Jaco Taute
14 Gio Aplon
13 Jean De Villiers
12 Francois Steyn
11 Bryan Habana
10 Peter Grant
9 Francois Hougaard
8 Duane Vermeulen
7 Willem Alberts
6 Marcell Coetzee
5 Andries Bekker
4 Eben Etsebeth
3 Jannie Du Plessis
2 Bismark Du Plessis
1 Tendai Mtawarira
16 Adriaan Strauss
17 Coenie Oosthuzyen
18 Juandre Kruger
19 Siya Kolisi
20 Sarel Pretorius
21 Patrick Lambie
22 Juan De Jongh
23 Chilliboy Ralepelle
24 Patrick Cilliers
25 Jean Deysel
26 Heinrich Brussouw
27 Jano Vermaak
28 Elton Jantjes
29 Lwazi Mvovo
30 Bjorn Basson
I would have done this with the injuries and then tell the team to play whats infront of them and only have set moves from scrums and lineouts..if ball is slow give it to our massive carriers and if its quick Hougi is perfect to instigate an attack
Injuries:
Taute – Louis Ludik
Vermeulen – K Daniel
Ralepelle – Liebenberg
Du Plessis – Burden
I would like to state that while Boks abd Meyer have been poor he has given breaks to great youngsters such as Etzebeth, Coetzee & Engelbrecht..However I would like to see Brussouw & De Jongh in the squad
26 Aug 2012, 01:35 am
anyway OUT
enough is enough !!
Night Hurricane.. AB’s were awesome today.. you gonna miss SBW bad.. and its Not the same AB team without him.. when SBW is gone AB’s will revert to a more stereotypical game.
26 Aug 2012, 01:36 am
@fitz1ella-116:
Cheers Dude
26 Aug 2012, 01:37 am
@fitz1ella-114:
thats wrong Alberts is a v good no 8, he can play 7 or 8, fk if we had 2 more alberts in the pack, we;d be unbeaten – he is frightening on the carry but what is truly ridiculous is that he was not the Boks first choice…
i do actually wonder, we got all these kenners in sa rugby and they pick someone like strauss – i mean ***** ******, this is the springboks, not the freestate griquas keier.
26 Aug 2012, 01:41 am
Aplon should be 15, and you use him in a specific way, not to play defenise ****, but to hit the damn gainline, ala foden and robinson, holy **** if the poms can play that game, it is more than over due that we play it too – the Springboks were called sprinboks not olifants for a reason.
26 Aug 2012, 01:42 am
fk that im off to bed, screw this ****.
26 Aug 2012, 01:44 am
Francois Hougaard was class tonight..as a Stormers fan it would be a dream come true to see him and Jaque Fourie back in WP after next season along with F Louw & Schalk Brits…wow imagine
1 Kitsoff 2 Brits 3 Malherbe 4 Etzebeth 5 Bekker 6 Louw 7 Burger 8 Vermeulen 9 Hougaard 10 P Grant / Elton Jantjes 11 Habana 12 De Jongh 13 Fourie 14 De Villiers 15 Aplon
16 Liebenberg 17 Carstens 18 Elstadt 19 Kolisi 20 Schroeder 21 Joe Pietersen 22 Van Den Heever
that would be magic considering the amount of players that leave the union every season
Also now that Lions players could come available Wp should look at Jantjes, Taute, Cilliers & Bandise Maku considering D Fourie is off to Toulon
26 Aug 2012, 01:46 am
hougaad has always been class and they were always going to blame him for an inept pack selection and tactics – that is def it, rubbed in and deserved.
26 Aug 2012, 02:16 am
Heyneke Meyer…WTF are you doing ek se!
We have great players in SA (and overseas), how about picking them and playing proper rugby, or else voetsek.
26 Aug 2012, 02:19 am
@daydreamer-123: Nick Mallet please save us.
26 Aug 2012, 02:21 am
@daydreamer-123:
Yep the biggest problem for Boks is the coach with his Maginot Line tactics….obsolete and uninspiring.
26 Aug 2012, 02:23 am
Whoooooo man. Argentina man,they just about beat us man,in sort of like Rugby man. I thought those dudes played that soccer game man. Like football,that’s their top sport but they ‘re pretty good at rugby too man. Man that looked like a freaky place where the boks we’re playing too man ,like a sort of rough stadium man,and the crowd all looked like Mexicans or something,sort of like a quite intimidating environment man,loads of loud Mexican dudes screaming and whistling and they always whistled when we were kicking man,that’s not very nice man,especially when we’re bringing our sport to them man. But they were good man,the Pumas I think they’re called. Puma man that’s like a lion type cat isn’t it. Maybe like a small leopard or one of those jaguars. Don’t think a puma could beat an African lion in a fight,like to see that though. But yeah the Pumas were quite good Oh yeah that Messy dude he’s Argentinian,saw him play soccer once,the tv dudes were raving about him ,real little dude,might make a good half back. Why would you call your kid Messy man,could one of those sort of like nik names man ,he may of been messy when he was a kid. Yeah it was a draw man,you don’t see that much in rugby man,soccer has lots of draws though ,stupid really you put all that effort in and then it’s a draw. Oh yeah Maradona he was an Argentinian. He used to do loads of drugs man. I think he played well in a world cup or something. Wonder what that place is like man,Argentina,looks quite rough man,probably lots of kidnapping and stuff that’s what happens in those places man. Imagine being kidnapped man,wonder why they call it kidnapping ,if you were a lady being kidnapped it should be womannapping or something. Oh man,I’m gonna roll one and chill. To many questions need answering man
26 Aug 2012, 02:26 am
Aplon is the best player in Africa and given the chance could build a wonderful rivalry with Dagg, who is right up there with Scott, Dryburgh, Clarke, Williment, Gallagher, Cullen, Muliaina, and Osborne, the best no 15′s I have ever seen. I wish I had seen Nepia also but I am not on my own with that view. I have not forgotten the bone collector from the Village Idiots, and he does not cut the mustard.
To my Jaapie friends, calm down stop bitching, learn and correct. You have a couple of matches against the Gunnahs that don’t quite look so easy now.
26 Aug 2012, 02:28 am
P duh not looking so clap now?
26 Aug 2012, 03:07 am
The public expect a major backlash Bokke, wipping Oz by 50 win restore the pain next week. (pobably loose to them too wont you?). Should have watched my currie cup instead. At least my team understand the what the breakdown mean.
Argentina did exactly what they did last week, everybody saw how dangerous they were at the breakdown, even my 5yr son. If they are sending twice as many people to the breakdown, surely, SURELY you would make sure the back line could not be caught in isolation again. .. My ballheaded God… why did they not counter that.
Bokke seemed slow, off pace. Surely after S15 they should be fitter than the Los Pumas, not to night…
Couldnt have been the food, Argentina serve the best steak in the world and alot of it.
JDV needs an education in commenting as a captain. Can clearly see he lacks the commentary lingo.
I had a great laugh when Habanana and Kirchner competed for an up and under and the Argentine grabs it and runs off. 2-1 and we still cant prosper. When have we ever had a player who was good at that. Montgomery was only OK. We need a guy like that Irish fullback, he beats most of his men. I remember he dismantaled the bokke when we played the irish a couple times. A facet of play we could do with an education in.
Hell… we could do with an education in all facets of play.
Halarious, Bekker couldnt secure his line out ball. Sweet *****..
Are we as good as 8th in the world, it appears so.
Well done LOS Pumas, pitty you didnt thrash us, we deserved to be beaten badly…
26 Aug 2012, 03:08 am
Get a decent coach to start with. You can’t have a coach that cannot even pick a decent team. That’s the easiest and most basic part of his job. How can we have a backline coach that does not set moves that will see us score tries, aka the ABs? How can we have a forwards coach that does not get his players to compete at the lineouts?
I’d like to see:
Coach – Mallet
Backline Coach – Campese
Forwards Coach – Smit (I think he’d make a good coach if he was not steering the team into a direction that suites his own game)
1. Beast
2. Biz (Liebenberg)
3. Coenie
4. Alberts
5. Etsebeth
6. Brussouw
7. Schalk (c)
8. Vermuelen
9. Sarel
10. Goosen (Elton = #2)
11. Le Roux
12. Frans
13. JP
14. Hougaard
15. Daniller/Taute (Swiel in the future)
26 Aug 2012, 03:10 am
Tomorrows papers should have a lovely puma with a sprinbok hanging and dangling out its mouth….Dinner been served
Arent the Los Pumas Amatuers…. lol
26 Aug 2012, 03:14 am
Player are to be blamed as much as the coaching staff. There’s enough experience there to include them as culprits. Its amaising how much Bissie was missed to day, isnot that the difference between last week and today and the difference between last weeks score and todays…
26 Aug 2012, 03:39 am
Garth I really like the team u named, Sounds promising
26 Aug 2012, 03:42 am
Sa got the players to be the worlds best… Just get the right coaches and game plan… I’m all for strictly running rugby and keep ball in hand, just kick when need to.
26 Aug 2012, 03:48 am
@Lang Giel-45: Heineken’s bound to pull together a camp involving some or other kind of draad.
26 Aug 2012, 03:51 am
@SodaJoe-103: The scrummie who looks like a speedcop doing point-duty.
26 Aug 2012, 03:51 am
We definitely have the players, but we continue to look for skills that have little to no bearing on the game, i.e. this Potgieter fool. So we now have an entire pack of ball carriers, what does that do for us? Sweet f’all.
26 Aug 2012, 04:08 am
Fire Meyer and hire Mallett and Wayne Smith as coaches, then the Boks will be sizzling.
26 Aug 2012, 04:16 am
Ihas become more and more apparent to me that Hougaard is not international quality scrumhalf. He is a phyical livewire, but his decisions are just bad! After four phases he passes to a forward standing alone (what he is doing standing alone os another subject for debate) and who is clearly going to get isolated. FFS surely a scrumhalf then knows to either slow the game down to get them to re-form, or to get the backline going.
Its almost as if they have been taught their job, but cannot see their way to playing in context.
26 Aug 2012, 04:22 am
the more you look at it the worse it looks
1) we had no fetcher!! What are the roles of Marcel and Potgeiter ? Marcel can stay the other one can go.
Remember how bismark and brussow used to win countless turnovers in the close games that would have sure come in handy today
2)we had no attacking 10 ! and for that hes not even a defensive 10
3) no attacking full back ! (Zane runs 3 steps to the right and 2 forward before booting the ball as far up as he can…every b loody time! compare tha with Dagg or Beale)
4) no game plan! the only plan the boks had to day was
n attack pass the ball to your left or right and hope for the best, on defense kick it as far as you can…and hope for the best.
i dont blame the players it was a long season so they will be a bit off the mark. my problem is the lack of fresh ideas from the coaches
26 Aug 2012, 06:10 am
Ok guys A lot of us knew this was possible It was heading that way after 3 test vs England
We can be very critical of the Coach but before we do remember this
here is a list of players he has not had the option to use
Juan Smith (Long term injury)
Bakkies (Japan)
Victor (retired)
Fdp japan
J fourie japan
Tauta injured
JPP injured
Goosen (was injured)
Connie injured
Bismark (recently injured)
Brussow injured
Kanko japan
Skalk injured
vermeulen injured but now back
Spies ( injured but not a huge loss)
Thats 15 good players a whole team almost
26 Aug 2012, 06:18 am
@CoachPete-141:
yip a few of us called it after the 3rd England test, the Bokke were terrible in that match and nothing has changed since , I’m hoping we put you to the sword in Dunedin and stretch the win/loss ratio even further
26 Aug 2012, 06:19 am
@CoachPete-141: But there are still better players in the CC than many in Mendoza
26 Aug 2012, 06:21 am
@garth-143:
Maybe a few
Minnie
A strauss
W le roux
you got any more?
26 Aug 2012, 06:22 am
Sorry that should read A Coetzee (lions Full back)
26 Aug 2012, 06:25 am
@garth-143:
all we hear about is how many world class players you have and if only they were properly coached you’d win everything, PDV was to blame for the last few years and Meyer was going to be the saviour of Bokke rugby, its pretty obvious that you don’t have the players otherwise you’d win alot more than you do, 3 super/3 nations titles from 17 seasons is testament to that surely
26 Aug 2012, 06:27 am
Our problems are at 15, 10, 9, and 8 and even lock (bekker was not great)
I agree that we have exhausted our time with M steyn
Jantjies or Goosen or even lambie
maybe time to have Alberts at 4
Potgieter should not be in squad
I dont know what to do at 9 Hougaard is not really the answer and nor is pienaar
Vermeulen when fully fit needs a shot at 8
Daniels did some good things when he came on HM gave him one starting game?
Kirshner not the answer at 15 either Maybe w le roux?
26 Aug 2012, 06:29 am
@NZINCHINA-146:
What you have is a bok coach who has built his reputation around Bulls style rugby with some ex players now not in the Bok team
They beat up on other super 15 and CC teams but Teat rugby a different story as HM is finding out.
The next 4 game s will show if he can adapt and really coach
26 Aug 2012, 06:31 am
@NZINCHINA-146:
Read my 141 post We have lost 15 plus good players
26 Aug 2012, 06:34 am
@CoachPete-144: Sarel, Eldstadt, Kolisi, Jantjies, Vermeulen, Goosen, Ebersohn, Daniller, Taute
26 Aug 2012, 06:35 am
@CoachPete-144: Sarel, Eldstadt, Kolisi, Jantjies, Vermeulen, Goosen, Ebersohn, Daniller, Taute
26 Aug 2012, 06:35 am
Congrats to Braaiboy who set a new GWR of 62hrs6min16sec for non stop braaing.
26 Aug 2012, 06:36 am
When fit, Brussouw’s name should be the first written down.
26 Aug 2012, 06:37 am
@CoachPete-148:
fair call but I’m still sticking to my earlier post if you had the players you’d win a lot more than you do.
26 Aug 2012, 06:37 am
@Fern-152: I could take that, no problem. The only issue is here there is seldom 62 hrs of good weather.
26 Aug 2012, 06:38 am
@garth-151:
kolisi is in the squad
I mentioned Jantjies
Goosen was injured and just got back
Our problem is not a center
Taute is injured
I have mentioned Brussow too but he is injured
add Minnie to the list
26 Aug 2012, 06:40 am
@NZINCHINA-154:
if I were to take out say 7 very experienced player out of your team and another 7 new players, on the cusp I wonder what you would be left with?
Bottom line we need to select new stars and play better rugby
26 Aug 2012, 06:41 am
garth the weather was perfect
i spent a lot of time there this weekend
all the meat had to be eaten,was over 1000 pieces of meat,5 braaied at a time
the oke took strain at the end
i ate so much meat i may well get scurvy
26 Aug 2012, 06:44 am
@CoachPete-157:
this is true coach but you didn’t win anything for the last two years either, we hear of all this talent but where is it currently in the Bokke set up?
If we lost McCaw Cane would take his place, if we lost Carter Cruden would take his place etc
26 Aug 2012, 06:44 am
HM has to accept a few obvious problems
Poor game plan carried out by average players
We need a fetcher
We need a different 10
and maybe a new 9?
We need to select a true # 8
someone else at 15
sort out the lock situation
26 Aug 2012, 06:47 am
@NZINCHINA-159:
We are not talking just 2 players here we are talking 7 plus experiences players and more very good back up players
Bryce Lawrence took care of our WC chances
and we played with 6 forwards in 2011 and 2010 since Smit and Spies were passangers
26 Aug 2012, 06:49 am
@NZINCHINA-159:
You lose Richie , carter, Reid a center or 2 a wing and Dagg, plus a top hooker and prop and 2 locks and 3 more lose forwards
Then what?
26 Aug 2012, 06:53 am
@CoachPete-161:
PDV was blamed for 3 bad seasons out of the last 4, now injuries are going to be the excuse for a poor season this year, doesn’t wash with me but thats how you see it and I’ll respect that, Crockett stepped in for Woody no problem, Messam for Kaino, Reallick for Thorn, Smith for the highlanders 9, Gear for Kahui etc etc
26 Aug 2012, 06:54 am
@NZINCHINA-159:
SBW is going to be a huge loss to you He is the spark in your backline with dagg of course
I am not saying you dont have great depth but you lose a whole lot of experienced players and stars and you may struggle
Plus you should have put 40 on the Aussies
26 Aug 2012, 06:57 am
@NZINCHINA-163: On other threads and posts i have said you guys were unbeatable before this weekend
I dont care for HM selections or coaching style
I am just saying he has lost a huge pool of players to select a team from
If we lose 4 in a row then we lose
We can find better coaches
Pdv never coached the team it was coached by Smit Matfield Fdp etc
26 Aug 2012, 06:59 am
@CoachPete-156: You said
“Maybe a few
Minnie
A strauss
W le roux
you got any more?”
My comment was that there are many better players in the CC than in Mendoza, i.e. Kolisi
26 Aug 2012, 07:00 am
and today i say well done Pumas
And to the boks Boys , this was a poor performance
and to HM Your game plan is not working change it
26 Aug 2012, 07:01 am
I really don´t understand most of your points of view, guys. It´s fine to be disappointed on your side, and probably yeah, you should have beaten Argentina twice on it´s first Rugby Championship. But what the ****, you seriously thought we wouldn´t go for it? We can play rugby, you better get used to it now. We are going for it.
You definitely want to watch the game against the All Blacks (In Buenos Aires). I don´t know what the score is going to be, it will probably suck for us, but you´ll get to see the real local support you´ll have to get used when visiting us.
Cheers to Rugby, is getting better now.
26 Aug 2012, 07:01 am
@garth-166:
yeah he should have let him play instead of that useless Potgieter
26 Aug 2012, 07:03 am
@FINERG-168:
We are very disappointed
We know we can play better and we know we have better players
If you read all the posts its repeated time after time
But we are not the coach
26 Aug 2012, 07:03 am
@CoachPete-164:
yer he will be but the coaches will back Nonu and Smith to do the job, agreed we should have put 40 past them but the last plays let us down
@CoachPete-165:
we are definitely beatable the Irish proved that a few weeks back but we have the best systems/ players development programmes and definitelty the best coaches in the world
26 Aug 2012, 07:07 am
@NZINCHINA-171:
You see we still feel the best test matches in the world are AB vs boks
We know we can beat you and it sickens us to see them play this poorly and have to accept some selections when we know there are better players
We want to play you guy who are the best in the world, and we want it to be hard and close and exciting
thats what we want
26 Aug 2012, 07:18 am
@CoachPete-172:
I doubt there will be much in it this year between the two teams on the score board there never is
26 Aug 2012, 07:21 am
@CoachPete-170:
Dude, let´s get this clear. Everybody knows you have better systems and better players, but that doesn´t mean u r gonna win every single time. In sports there is a very important detail to pay attention to, and it´s your mental condition. It´s so hard to beat a guy who wishes soooo bad to make you bite the dust.
I´m from Argentina, and i know we have the best football team out there, we have messi, tevez, aguero and higuain up front. There´s no chance for the others to beat us, but it happens dude, it happens because is literally impossible to keep it up the whole time. Once you are the elite, the rest is thinking all the time how to bring you down
26 Aug 2012, 07:26 am
Let us all give credit to Argies
it was always going be difficult playing on their home soil.
Their pack played like their lives depended on it..and that crowd
behind them.
you could see it in their eyes..men possessed..Hugo Porta would have dropped
goal to win back in day. So very unlucky but full credit for Argies.
26 Aug 2012, 07:32 am
U all were bashing and writing insulting comments about PdV, atleast he won Tri-Nation in his first year, beat British Lions, beat All Blacks many times even doing it in NZ, his real blamish was he lost a rigged QF in the World Cup,
Now u all get Heyneker Meyer that was labelled as God sent, now u cry. U all got what u deserve, being a good Super coach doesn’t mean success as international coach, ask Aussies about Robbie Deans
26 Aug 2012, 07:46 am
@Sir Watson-176:Both dingo deans and meyer was coaches of super ,super rugby teams with some of the best names ever to play the game. They do not have that at the moment and the future looks bleak. So are they good coaches? Can they change their game plans to be competative without the quality players. Let’s see what happens.
26 Aug 2012, 07:46 am
@Sir Watson-176:
Alot of these guys live on insults and complaints.
Its like air to them.
QF was not rigged. SA not good enough to win with 75% + territory and possesion.
If it was rigged wouldnt you think SA would have very little ball and possesion?
Fact is SA lost. PDV win ratio was not good enough. If you like 60 % win ratio,carry on but a few on here like it to be a little higher.
And PDV also thought eye gouging was ok, do you as well?
26 Aug 2012, 07:49 am
@Hurricane-178:
I see they have started to turn on Meyer, at least PDV got a season before the knives came out, ugly stuff
26 Aug 2012, 07:52 am
@NZINCHINA-179:
Yeah these guys are incredible.
The fans honestly think they can pick and better team and coach them as well.
When we lost the 2007 RWC, not one minute did i think i could pick a better team than GH or coach better than him.
HM needs time, he must have a plan surely.
26 Aug 2012, 07:55 am
@NZINCHINA-179: Hey brother, easy for you. We had four years of incompetence and with the appointment of Meyer might have gotten the wool pulled over our eyes. Meyer the “messiah” have to produce from the get go! This sheit must stop.
26 Aug 2012, 08:00 am
@Hurricane-180: @Hurricane-180:
very ugly indeed they’ll be calling for his head at the conclusion of the RC, we must have Mallet blah blah blah they don’t have the players thats their problem
26 Aug 2012, 08:01 am
@Hurricane-180: Yeah, but GH is not an idiot. He is a grumpy old f…, but no idiot.
26 Aug 2012, 08:02 am
@passdidonnerseding-181:
Ok fair enough
26 Aug 2012, 08:02 am
@garth-183:
lol….he is
26 Aug 2012, 08:04 am
@NZINCHINA-179: LOL its typical of the SA supporters,
you will see the Bulls Haters will be in force everyday wanting the Boks to lose because to many Bulls blah blah blah, and when its a Stormers Coach, the reverse happens and the same stupidity etc etc
You know what??? they so arrogant there aint even 1 word of credit to the Argies that just just lost to the AB’s and beat the Aussies and French for example.
26 Aug 2012, 08:07 am
@sharks_lover-186:
Spot on.
These Argies are no push overs.
But one thing i have learnt over the years here at Keo that you South Africans are very territorial orientated. Of course due to the CC tournament and probably so long just playing that, not being included in the international scene for so long. Its really interesting.
26 Aug 2012, 08:19 am
@Hurricane-187:
fatc mate
Only problem i had considering injuries we have at present with the Coach yesterday was that he didnt think to change the style of play when we were in trouble.
You have a good defensive yet running 10 on the bench, and you have other reserves comming on that are capable of running rugby, yet he stuck to the 10 that he wad instructed to play the kick and chase right through the game.
For the coach should be readin a game as it plays itself off and surely have a change in stryles of play where needed, I dont think its so much the Players as they have and play various styles aat the provinces.
I feel thats where the coach needs to be adaptable, you cannot sit dictator style on you chair and demand its that way and no other way, because i said so.
IT DIES NOT MATTER THE SPORT, TO WIN YOU NEED TO BE A GOOD CHESS PLAYER, out stratergise your opponent and you win,if you keeping playing the same move you will lose.
Now i understand why he keeps thinking of the past glories as it brought much success, but he does not have the same players anymore and will have to think more out of the box, or trust me its nagmal, South African supporters are already against him and he aint even lost a game yet, can you imagine he loses 1??????
26 Aug 2012, 08:23 am
@sharks_lover-188:
Yep, what was GH favourite saying….Horses for courses.
26 Aug 2012, 08:25 am
When last was a WP coach in charge of the Boks that started undeserving players form the Cape?
26 Aug 2012, 08:25 am
When a team is comprehensively outplayed by a minor rugby nation then you know something is really wrong. No excuses of travel and they travelled the same way as us. No excuses of poor reffing as he was good. The only excuse is that we have a messiah to some who is clearly not mature enough to handle the big time. He is too temperamental and projects no confidence. If you can’t beat a team like Argentina and England at home (final test) then things are not right. There are the players but if you continue to select second rate players then expect to be beaten by second rate teams.
9, 10 are super weak…
26 Aug 2012, 08:30 am
Hurricane, if you look what has became of “Bryce the horror ref” then u will know that the Bok World Cup QF match was rigged.
I love the fact that Boks r playing exactly as Bulls are, since we have Heyneke at the helm, and in the process they play stupid rugby.
There is no hope for the Boks, remember the saying “Be careful what u ask for, u must just get it”. we r just getting exactly what we ask for in Meyer !!!
26 Aug 2012, 08:34 am
No one wants the Boks to lose, but if they do we have a right to complain, especially when we lose to a team like Argentina. You get the hyped up who continuously complain that we are moaning because of the Bulls or the Sharks or the Stormers. We are complaining as South Africans… Get a life…
26 Aug 2012, 08:38 am
Sorry guys… Fellow bulls but changes aplenty please…
15-lambie/frans steyn
14-aplon/engelbrecht
13-engelbrecht/de villiers
12-fsteyn/de villiers
11-habana
10-goosen/lambie
9-hougaard
8-vermeulen
7-alberts/coetsee
6-brussow
5-kruger
4-etzebeth
3-cilliers
2-strauss
1-mtwarira
16-maku
17-oosthuizen
18-bekker
19-coetzee/alberts/brussow
20-pienaar
21-lambie/goosen
22-englbrecht/aplon
26 Aug 2012, 08:43 am
@Gumboots-193: we didnt lose, and Argewntina is not this minor rugby nation as you say,
Look at their results against the Ab’s etc etc etc, accept we are not the rugby gods we deem to think we are or it’s our right to be,
Yes the coach has made a few errors, yes we all have our our version of who the team should be and how he should play, FFS you had WP supporters before the match started oin here hoping the Boks would lose becausae according to their uppity high and ******* mighty arrogant opinions he did not select the players they prefer
That is support?
Hell I believe Lambie should be our 10, he is not but i sure as hell wont sit here hoping the Boks to lose because of it.
I mean we have Bulls and WP supporters in here blamming the likes of Burden and LAmbie?? they f*ing didnt even play in the 2 matches so far?????
come now my friend , sit in here and be open minded just for a few, maybe you will see why we are being laughed at in here as a nation
Oh and i have a life, a nice one at that
26 Aug 2012, 08:44 am
@xtremebull-194:
Agree – bring Jordaan into the mix too. Taute for sure when ready…
Get rid of VdMerwe, Potgieter and Morne for good… Sorry but they don’t cut the chase
26 Aug 2012, 08:45 am
@xtremebull-194: You guys keep choosing players to play that are injured,, ffs man HM cannot select the Injued
WHY THE **** DONT WE JUST RECALL BISSY FROM THE OPERATING TABLE AND PLAY HIM????
26 Aug 2012, 08:47 am
@sharks_lover-195:
They are not regarded as a major nation. Drawing to them is like losing. Anyone with any rugby knowledge would agree that we deserved to lose. It was weak and making excuses is really weak…
26 Aug 2012, 08:48 am
there are 8 offhand that i can think of who are not being selected for the 22 that should be (not the squad – whats the point having them outside the 22).
Deon Fourie
Elstadt
Brussow
Kolisi
Vermeulen
De Jong
Aplon
Goosen
and that is why these results will continue, and get worse as the losses mount and confidence fades.
26 Aug 2012, 08:48 am
Maku??? you put him on a team sheet and he has not even played this year??
Oh **** the more i read the more stupid it gets,
Goosen and Vermeulen both didnt cut the chase for the provinces yesterday, so they must be selected???
And i am not saying Vermeulen for example is not good enough , but he managed to played well for 15 to 20 minutes then went missing, HE HAS BEEN OUT THE WHOLE YEAR, not his fault but he is a damn long way off being fully match fit
26 Aug 2012, 08:48 am
@Gumboots-193:
Hi Bill. What really confuses me is that at the end of last year before their was any thought of HM becoming Bok coach, word around the Bulls campfire was that they would adopt a ball in hand high tempo game plan, orchestrated by HM. Thats why they recruited the likes of JJ, Sadie, Potgieter and even tried to get Goosen on board.
The reason for this change of gameplan was because they felt that in Super Rugby 2011 skop en jag wasn’t working.
Now after HM has taken over the Boks his gone back to something that he felt wasn’t working.
The real issue isn’t in selection its in the blueprint.
26 Aug 2012, 08:49 am
Yep….I think its time for Meyer and co to pay a visit to the Lonmin miners’ sangoma…they’re gonna need all the luck they can get.
26 Aug 2012, 08:49 am
It doesn’t matter who he chooses! With this game plan we are doomed…
26 Aug 2012, 08:52 am
@Jeraldjay-201:
Howzit buddy. What gets me is that some people are actually happy with a draw.
Some people have blinkers on and actually believe HM is the messiah.
This guy is hyper. Watch him during a game throwing his toys out of his cot.
I don’t buy the hype and once he selected the first squad the writing was on the wall.
I said earlier. It doesn’t matter who his chooses his game plan sucks…
26 Aug 2012, 08:54 am
@cab-199:
here is what i think of those players
Deon Fourie was rubbish again yesterday , nothing more the a CC player
Elstadt, Injured so whats the point?
Brussow Injured so whats the point?
Kolisi, one or 2 good things yesterday otherswise outplayed again on the day
Vermeulen, looked good for 20 min but a long long way to go for him to be fully match fit
De Jong??? you kidding right??
Aplon, ditto??
Goosen, can clearly see nowhere near matchfit, and his old weak defense showed yesterday, thus he got subbed, he will come right
26 Aug 2012, 08:55 am
@Gumboots-203: Now gummy with that i can agree
thats is the critism i have for now, he needs to be more versitile as a coach, have option
26 Aug 2012, 08:57 am
Great to see grant10 back in action..now there’s a blogger who’s not afraid to call it as he sees it..ever objective…as opposed to one-eyed blueballs like tacitus and his ilk.
26 Aug 2012, 08:59 am
@sharks_lover-205:
no problem, those are your thoughts, mine are we will continue to lose if the current squad is maintained.
Fourie, Elstadt and Vermeulen/Kolisi will give the pack an extra 30% bite
Brussow and Fourie will give the pack an extra 100% fetching ability.
The hard-running of Steyn with the sharpness of De Jong outside, and Aplon attacking from the back will give the Boks an extra 20% strike running capability and backline penetrability. Goosen if he’s as good as everyone thinks another 10%.
That side picked by extremebull is a v good one – brussow might be injured but he was not being picked in any case.
26 Aug 2012, 08:59 am
@sharks_lover-206:
He just irks me with all his talk. He is too hyper. Sorry he will not make it in the big time.
26 Aug 2012, 09:00 am
@Rage-207:
…and I agree. So glad he is back. Also missing UFO…
26 Aug 2012, 09:03 am
@Gumboots-209: but he has cut it in the big time?
Also please name a replacement?
26 Aug 2012, 09:04 am
@Gumboots-204:
We all live in hope that someday a coach will lead us to the promise land.
HM did it with the Bulls so we felt that his the chosen one.
We all knew what to expect from HM from the outset but I thought his gameplan would be tweaked from the original version.
But its still early days, he hasn’t lost a game yet and I’ll be the one playing the violin on that sinking ship.
26 Aug 2012, 09:05 am
@Gumboots-209: I understand he irks you, same for me, hell look at you coach Coetzee?? always talking and talking in the press?? please explain the trophies?? and i dont mean this in a bad way at all Gummy, but talking is what some coaches do,
26 Aug 2012, 09:05 am
@ 210 gumboots
What happened to ufo..and where’s justrugby?
26 Aug 2012, 09:07 am
@Jeraldjay-212: Look i understand frustration mate, like i said to hurrican surely yesterday when the kicking didnt work?? bring on an attacking option you have on the bench like Lambie, change the game plan, he didnt and thats the problem i have
As a coach he needs to be more wise as the match progressors
26 Aug 2012, 09:07 am
@Sir Watson-192:
Bryce had to leave.
He didnt want to go to SA and the death threats on the hate Bryce facebook page really said it all.
Look unlike you i will say it was a rigged RWC QF if SA was penalised when they got the ball all the time. But when you have over 75% of possesion and territory, how could it be rigged?
Bryce reffed a shocker and both sides were hit woth odd penalties but once again a loss by SA and the fans blame everyone else.
I am afraid you are just like the rest of them.
Do you even think that the South African team actually was not good enough?
We were told when Barnes let the French cheat for 40 mins, not one penaltiy through the the 2nd half
and France were on the back foot in there own quater for so long, guess what, guys on here said we should have gone for the drop kick. Or stop moaning. Or when GH said it felt as though the 2007 RWC was rigged, these guys come down on him like a tonne of bricks.
Point is, RWC is over. You lost. Bryce had to go. PDV had to go. Smit had to go.POB needed to go. Now HM might need to go.
Do you see a pattern here? Everyones fault but your own players.
26 Aug 2012, 09:08 am
@cab-208: LIke they gave it bite yesterday??
26 Aug 2012, 09:09 am
@sharks_lover-205: Hi SL, I agree about Fourie – he too often misses his jumpers in the lineout. I don’t care how well he is doing around the park but lineout throwing has to be pin-point..and it is not – has never really been doing it well enough. Vermeulen needs to play more games to become match-fit. Maybe he can be brought back when we play at home. I still think Kolisi offers more than Jacques Potgieter. Potgieter does not pass the ball. How will he manage to run over the Aussies or ABs ?
Meyer’s obsession with direct rugby needs to change but it seems that he does not want to change. Hougaard is a running 9 and not a kicking one, yet he is forced to play the kicking game.
Why we have not seen Lambie in the past 2 tests I really don’t know. Kirchner was okay at Newlands but he is so predictable !!: “high kick and charge” – no creativity at all.
26 Aug 2012, 09:09 am
The role of Steve Walsh in yesterday’s Test needs to be addressed to realise the poor state of the current Boks team
In the ideal world where the test referees are honest, competent and unbiased, the Boks yesterday would have been smacked by 14 to 21 points, instead they got away with a draw
Several times yesterday they looked panicked and clueless, waiting for the whistle from Walsh to stop the Argies’ momentum which did come to the Boks’ rescue more often than not.
26 Aug 2012, 09:09 am
@Rage-207:
Yeah Grant10 is a good guy.
Grant100 on the other hand has issues.
26 Aug 2012, 09:09 am
sorry that was hondkak – can u imagine the outcry if De Villiers had coached that debacle yesterday? just imagine.
make no mistake the Boks deserved to lose that game – the pumas were outfront by 10 pnts and worth all of those – it was through a schoolboy fumble error of their own in the last 10 mins that let Frans Steyn pounce on a dropped ball under the posts to give a 7pnt shift – otherwise the Boks were dead and buried.
26 Aug 2012, 09:10 am
@Hondo-219:
lol
26 Aug 2012, 09:11 am
I bought the Rapport for possible scathing rugby reviews and insights and player ratings by JJ H… But as I thought, no real detail as the game was too late and JJ’s mum tucks him into bed with warm milk and cookies @ 09:30
26 Aug 2012, 09:11 am
A team without intelligence. HM. Your brand. Bulls rugby. K@k. Hondk@k Bullshite. Happy birthday, Pielneus.
26 Aug 2012, 09:12 am
Een ding is so duidelik soos daglig…
Meyer’s strategy of first formulating a gameplan and then selecting the personnel to implement it is not going to come off…the problem being that certain players are not yet/will never be competent (at test level.)
as soon as a guy like Brussouw is available,he should be in the mix…but given Meyer’s preferences Stegmann will probably selected ahead of him…ai tog
26 Aug 2012, 09:13 am
@sharks_lover-217:
you know as well as I do that the pack is also a sum of its parts, i am saying combine the best of wp with the best of the other teams and you will end up with a moerse good team and we all sit toasting coconuts happy as larry at the groot messiah – instead we are left scratching our nuts wtf happened in that we shoulda lost to argie for teh first time ever.
but ok forgetting all that – do you think there are any positives to take from the game yesterday?
26 Aug 2012, 09:15 am
@Hurricane-216: I am proudly SA and Stormers but I agree – the RWC is gone and it’s of no use carrying on about Bryce !! (I still maintain Bryce was very bad on the day but it is 2012 now!!)
The problem with HM is that he does not want to change his game plan. According to him there is one game plan and if it is executed well enough, the Boks will win. “The Boks will just have to keep improving the execution” – I mean really, surely he has to see the light at some stage !!
26 Aug 2012, 09:17 am
@brains_trust-223: JJ Harmse has left Rapport – he is employed by SARU at the moment and works in Cape Town.
26 Aug 2012, 09:17 am
@CharlesM-218: Can agree with that Charles, Like i said the coach needs to be more open minded and work on various game plans, he has the players.
I agree he should have had Kolisi there specially with the injuries we have, hell Kanko shoulda been there, many aint there, but even with the players there yesterday we could and should have won.
So i hope HM has learnt from yesterday
People also dont realise how good Bismark is come ruck time and mauls and collusion points,
No other hooker is the country offers what he does, but fatc is he is injured so we have to make do with what we have.
I mean last week everyone critisized Daniel, lemme tell you yesterday he cam on and made a difference, so players there if used correctly can do the thing.
I am jusy hoping the coach can get wise to this
26 Aug 2012, 09:18 am
@sharks_lover-215:
The Argies home and away games was the perfect opportunity to cut his ties with the Bulls and play a Lambie/Pienaar combo.
I think his naive in terms of the provincial dynamic which will probably come with experience.
As a Springbok national coach you unfortunately have to kiss @ss for the greater good, which I don’t think he understands yet.
26 Aug 2012, 09:18 am
Too early to judge the coach the problem with Sa sport is coaches want to stamp the style of play and forget about the essence of succefull bok rugby is played and how to adjust it to dominant players. Current we have no international stars so the collective system is much more needed
When stars gone injured your game system win u matches . We have no stars now so game system is going to be exposed or lack of it this where u see star coaches come through in any sport how well a team copes with without go to man on the field.
As they say super stars will all hide a defiecient coach but sports stars combined with a Genuis coach they unstoppable read allblacks Barcelona Madrid Manchester .
What I wory about is HM post match speeches he has no clue on when things are wrong so what is he going to fix
All real stars are injured So tg
26 Aug 2012, 09:18 am
@sharks_lover-213:
The only trophy that counts nowadays is the Super title. The Currie Cup is weak and boring. It used to be a great achievement but it is now just a trophy for up and coming players. Coetzee has won more than he has lost. I don’t agree with the game plan and don’t think he is the right person either. We need to go international. We are too one dimensional here. Conservative may the right word.
26 Aug 2012, 09:18 am
Nick Mallet is probably our best SA option…
26 Aug 2012, 09:19 am
@cab-226: No i dont because i am of the point of view that yesterday was more about the Coaches mistakes than the players.
With Morne there for a start the Argies knew exactly what game plan was being played
that is the simple facts
26 Aug 2012, 09:19 am
@Rage-214:
I think a few bloggers have pushed the wrong buttons… A pity really as their rugby knowledge is great.
26 Aug 2012, 09:19 am
@CharlesM-227:
I agree.
What is it with this one style of play for SA?
You guys have some killer runners and playmakers, but the style that seems to have been forced into SA coaches seems odd. Of course that game play will work sometimes but you want to be able to change the game play and bring on other players that can run that type of game.
It seems you have a mix of all sorts in there and no one really knows what to do.
I believe HM has something else under his sleeve….surley this isnt it.
26 Aug 2012, 09:20 am
@CharlesM-218:
Kirchner turned over the ball 3 out of 4 times on his ‘counter attacks’ charges, his faked attempt to stop the Argies’ try was as comical as any Quota’s defence effort
26 Aug 2012, 09:20 am
@Rage-225: If HM thinks that Brussouw gives away penalties, he should double the amount if he picks Stegmann.
How stupid is Flip v d Merwe? Within 30 seconds of being on the field, he gave away a penalty in the lineout and 3 points to Argentina
26 Aug 2012, 09:21 am
@Jeraldjay-230: Correct
26 Aug 2012, 09:22 am
Cheers guys… Shopping time… LOL
A moment of silence!!!
26 Aug 2012, 09:24 am
@sharks_lover-234:
so what you are saying is lambie should be selected for 10, kanko for potgieter, alberts to 4 and daniel to 8 – which should make for the Sharks and give us the equivalent 65% win percentage?
26 Aug 2012, 09:25 am
Here is a winning loose trio:
Marcell Coetzee
Derick Minnie
Ryan Kankowski
Many will say Minnie give away too many penalties, but any coach worth his money should be able to rectify that.
Oh, and did you notice that Sarel Pretorius is back and had a blinder for the Cheetahs against Griquas.
26 Aug 2012, 09:26 am
@Rage-225:
Stegmann isn’t a bad choice at all, he isn’t at Brussow’s poaching level but he is much stronger and just as quick at the breakdown with a very good destructive /ball slowing capabilities imo
26 Aug 2012, 09:27 am
@sharks_lover-229: Spies stayed in the side for ages and HM said that players would get a fair opportunity to “display their goods”, but Daniel had only ONE opportunity. He should have tahen Potgieter off and not Coetzee. Kanko really had an excellent last couple of weeks in the S15. Pity HM didn’t pick him.@Hurricane-236: Exactly: if you compare it with your team,.. well there is no comparison: even the props can offload better in the contact or just before contact.
26 Aug 2012, 09:29 am
If I was the coach, with limited time to make any impact I would insist on two relatively small changes. Firstly, the crash ball move-I’d insist that my players try avoid the opposition players by aiming for the gaps. Too often, we try run straight over the opposition. Marcel is actually quite good at attacking the gap.
Secondly, I’d insist that my front row NEVER stand in the backline. It’s great to have a mobile prop or hooker, but when I see our backline having to join the ruck because our forwards are waiting in the backline, I start punching.
26 Aug 2012, 09:31 am
@cab-241: DIDNT SAY THAT AT ALL
26 Aug 2012, 09:33 am
Boks vs NZ Maoris 1981 on ESPN Classic
26 Aug 2012, 09:33 am
@cab-241: He never mentioned anything about Alberts at 4
26 Aug 2012, 09:33 am
@sharks_lover-246:
Pissoff *******. you stink like your mother.
26 Aug 2012, 09:33 am
@sharks_lover-246:
so who should be selected at 10?
26 Aug 2012, 09:33 am
@CharlesM-244: I agree Charles, but most of the knowledgable in here called for Daniels head
Bekker has been useless, he does not hit rucks at all it seems, tackles high and lsoes lineouts
So yes the Coach is not thinking out the box yet, so for me thats the problem right now
Kruger is a far better option at lock, he does work on hitting rucks etc, yet not selected
26 Aug 2012, 09:34 am
@CharlesM-238:
It probably because both Flip and HM expected Walsh to turn a blind eye?
I was surprised when Walsh pinged JdV for a forward pass considering he turned a blind eye on the very same play between Aplon and JdV against the Poms.
26 Aug 2012, 09:35 am
@KeurboomPark-249: With comments like that I’ll rather leave – totally uncalled for !!!!!!!!
26 Aug 2012, 09:35 am
@Transformation-247:
whats the score? maoris took them close in that one i think
26 Aug 2012, 09:35 am
@UKSaffa-245:
Yeah, the crash ball move works better him you go for the gap, normally that takes out 2 players not just the one you crash into.
But one thing i have noticed is that even though you see glimpses, the speed of the cleanouts that the boks do is impressive. Honestly i cant believe how sometimes the quick ball you do get….is bloody quick, ball can be out just after the tackled person is on the ground.
So its all there, glimpses look impressive. But then quick ball 3 times normally comes a kick to the opposition, kicking needs to come at the right time.
26 Aug 2012, 09:37 am
Meyer got what was coming to him, only his prayers to JC in the changeroom at half time or before kick off must have been answered because sure as fck he did not deserve to draw that game, same as he didn’t deserve to draw the 3rd test vs England. If that Argy FB had sent his clearance kick a split second earlier or aimed it couple cm higher it was tickets, he wound up for a low racking long distance kick at low trajectory to get maximum clearance and by g’dam fluke found Steyn by sheer God given bale out to Meyer else it was a first loss to Argy in history. His good holy intentions surely saved his arse yesterday.
Meyer has steadily deteriorated and retreated further and further into his dead end laager shell. He fckd up terribly from the outset picking WRONG set of players and his grootkop blind stubborn idiocy is going to fck him up bad, same as White got fckd up 49-0 for almost exact same reason. Only I dunno if Meyer got the balls to get up off the floor if he gets fckd up that bad.
Meyer is distinctly out his depth, he’s the kind of coach that cannot hit the track running, he needs plenty time for trial and error before he gets his ducks in a row, that why at Bulls it took him around 5 seasons to get up from dead last to first ONLY after he employed PROPER rugby brains in Tod Louden to steer his ship. Same with White who was so far out his depth he had NO other option but hire Aussie brains to bale him right out of his brain dead stupor.
SA rugby coaches are THICK as two bricks, its so goddamn painfully OBVIOUS, how stubbornly thick they actually are. So they must LEARN by getting fckd UP by their own stubborn self engrossed numb skull STUPIDITY.
26 Aug 2012, 09:37 am
@sharks_lover-251:
Daniels is good, but not worldclass like brussow, should be backup to brussow for opensider tearaway.
agree on your locks, bekker can be alot better, but he blows so hot and cold and at the moment he;s out on the wing permanently.
26 Aug 2012, 09:37 am
@237 hondo
You are becoming kak boring with your racist posts.We know you dont like non-white players but do you watch the game with a pen and paper,writing down their mistakes just so you can come on here and vindicate yourself ? If so,thats not cool…in fact thats sick. you are an embarassment to yourself and your parents.
26 Aug 2012, 09:39 am
Haven’t done my preferred for a while so here goes:
15. Ludik
14. Hougaard
13. JDV
12. Steyn
11. Habs (Mvovo is a great replacement but I’ll go with experience)
10. Goosen (gooi hom somer in) Lambie as the back-up.
9. Pienaar
8. Vermuelen
7. Alberts
6. Kolisi
5. Kruger
4. Etzebeth
3. Cilliers
2. Strauss
1. Beast
26 Aug 2012, 09:40 am
@sharks_lover-251: Bekker’s game is really disappointing. I’m not a huge Kruger fan but at some stage HM will have to make that call. Something that puzzles me is the calling at the lineout. At one lineout that I can remember specifically, Etzebeth was unmarked in front, yet Bekker called the ball to himself, but Strauss’s throw was too short and we lost the ball. In a case like that, Bekker should’ve seen Etzebeth was unmarked and took the easy option. In that respect it seems that Bekker will never be able to step into Matfield’s role
26 Aug 2012, 09:40 am
@fitz1ella-256:
Spot on. HM is a Nazi, and what a Pielneus.
26 Aug 2012, 09:40 am
@Rage-258:
Back from the gutter?
It’s tough at the bottom, I guess?
26 Aug 2012, 09:42 am
@cab-250: Peter Grant
Locks <bekker and Etsebeth
here is the team
15 Joe Petersen
14 Aplon
13 JDJ
12 JDV
11 Habana
10 Grant
09 Call back January/Dewald
08 Vermeulen
07 Elstadt
06 Kolisi
05 Bekker
04 Etsebeth
03 Brok
02 Fourie the mighty
01 Rooikop
16 Liebenburg
17 Ask for a Bulls player to help you out here? just to add injury to insult.
18 DFe Kock Steenkamp
19 Schalk
20 Louis Schreuder
21 JP Du Plessis
theres you BOk team
26 Aug 2012, 09:43 am
Elstadt is the glaring ommission and wouldve made a massive difference in Mendoza – Roncero having a field day as were a few of the other argies with hands trailing etc- thats exactly what they shoulda done to unsettle the boks which they did.
26 Aug 2012, 09:44 am
@sharks_lover-263:
what a great team – maak el presidente baas.
26 Aug 2012, 09:44 am
I’m outta here – if people can’t discuss rugby matters but getting personal again !!
26 Aug 2012, 09:44 am
@cab-257: Cab if uninjnured Brussow is one of the first i would select, but he is injured thus no use calling on him
26 Aug 2012, 09:44 am
@sharks_lover-263:
U r such a ****. Like your mother.
26 Aug 2012, 09:44 am
@cab-265:
26 Aug 2012, 09:45 am
@KeurboomPark-268: En jou ma is a hoer ook, fokkengemors
26 Aug 2012, 09:46 am
Obese. Sies.
26 Aug 2012, 09:46 am
Ugly as sin
26 Aug 2012, 09:47 am
@KeurboomPark-268: low class scum
26 Aug 2012, 09:47 am
Poor response Hondo.
its people like you and keurboom park that spoil this blogging experience for others.95% of us come for rugby reasons…heaven knows why you and okes like grant100,langers,etc.show up here.So once again,dont come here witcha tendencies ohrite?
26 Aug 2012, 09:47 am
Give it up Hondo
Rage is right about you
26 Aug 2012, 09:48 am
@KeurboomPark-272: best part of you ran down the hind legs of a munkey you ******* low class dog
26 Aug 2012, 09:48 am
@fitz1ella-256:
You meant ‘bail’ ?
HM looked like he was falling apart yesterday, the way he rushed to the water bottles at his side, he was no fun to watch at all
PdV provided much better entertainment in this regard, maybe AC should be rushed now to be the coach?
26 Aug 2012, 09:48 am
@sharks_lover-273:
and your daughter still doesn’t talk to you?
26 Aug 2012, 09:49 am
@sharks_lover-276:
Bluff scruff ****
26 Aug 2012, 09:50 am
@Rage-274: exactly rage, and some of them come in here with changed nics and make like they not the same person,
bloody lowclass
Hondo and Grant 100 the same, always bloody race issues
26 Aug 2012, 09:50 am
@Rage-274:
Truth hurts I guess?
you do have my sympathy though!
26 Aug 2012, 09:51 am
@KeurboomPark-278: Brave behind a monitor huh HOerkind
26 Aug 2012, 09:51 am
@sharks_lover-276:
You failed you r nazi species. And your familiy too. Sies. Rubbish.
26 Aug 2012, 09:52 am
leave the family stuff out ekse.
26 Aug 2012, 09:52 am
@sharks_lover-282:
You are pure impotent scum. Koebaai!
26 Aug 2012, 09:53 am
it was a 12 all draw!!!!!!
26 Aug 2012, 09:53 am
@cab-284: well you saw what this coloured trash said to me and about my Mother
******* typical Cape trash scum
26 Aug 2012, 09:54 am
@KeurboomPark-285: FO afterbirth Cnut
26 Aug 2012, 09:54 am
The Springboks did not play well. Playing the Pumas away from home was always going to be tough. They needed to start well and they didnt – they let in a soft try. After that they struggled to get any momentum. They will learn from that and im happy we were lucky enough to get a draw. However I think we need to be realistic – Its a new team and when you look around its no surprise that we are struggling to find our feet. We have lost a huge amount of players and have also have many who are not there through injury.
The good news is that we will only get better. Our top player will return from injury and we will have more cohesion in the team. I dont think we will win the Tri nations this year. I think the All Blacks will. Hopefully we will win the next 3 out of 4 games. I think we will be much stronger next year. As long as Australia comes last, DEAD LAST I am happy!
26 Aug 2012, 09:56 am
@sharks_lover-263: Hahahahahahaha, you can’t help yourself. You try so hard to appear objective and sound of mind…but sadly, you can’t help yourself
Your WP hatred is about as subtle as your lack of class.
For every mention of a WP player, you have about 50 excused and ‘logical reasons’ as to why there is a better Sharks player ready to make the step up, and for some reason, no Shark player ever has a bad game in your most humble and honest opinion.
In an ideal world, I would prefer it, if all Cape players were removed from the Bok team…..as then when things go wonky, they would not be blamed for everything that went wrong, and YOU (true to form) would be able to blame, travel,injuries, travel, injuries, travel travel travel travel for every loss.
Bring in all the Sharks players….Ideal Bok team, as they are all world class and way better than anything the Cape has to offer
Bekker was kak, JDV was kak, Eben and Bryan were ok.
Coetzee was kak, Jannie was kak, Alberts, Mvovo, Beast and F Steyn were ok.
You see how this works?
Try it sometime.
26 Aug 2012, 09:56 am
@Transformation-286:
yeah they wanted to teach the Bokkies and their govt a moerse lesson.
26 Aug 2012, 09:58 am
Keurboom
hoekom is dit vi jo nodig om altyd k@k te soek? kan jy ni for once net ordentlik oor rugby praat ni?
Sharkslover
ja man…look I enjoy all the banter and witty posts from guys like katman,gunther and a nutter like happy-hippy.But then you get these dodgy types who come here just to cause trouble.I dont understand WHY?
26 Aug 2012, 09:59 am
@sharks_lover-287: And you forget all the things you have said about my parents????
So it’s ok when YOU are doing the ‘parent insulting’, but it’s unforgiveable when you get some back?
Typical…..
26 Aug 2012, 09:59 am
@sharks_lover-287:
hahahahahahahahha Go cry to your mother and her Zuma polygamist concubines. You are shite. KZN polygamists! Backward.
26 Aug 2012, 09:59 am
Heyneke Meyer has his brandy and coke goggles on, stuck in 2005. Johann van Graan, useless forwards coach, Ricardo Loubscher, should go and coach tukkies womens team.Zane Kircher useless, Morne Steyn rubbish, Potgieter more rubbish.
26 Aug 2012, 09:59 am
everyone smaaked bakkies, especially bakkies se groot lief and cane, and he was about as vuil as u get – how he remained on the park for most games is a mystery to the gods – so now why aint other hotheads like elstadt being picked?
26 Aug 2012, 10:00 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-290: What you on about??
you cant help but to butt in can you ?? get lost, CAb and i were having a discussion,
If you had half a brain which you dont you will see i am actually not blamming players.
But then again i am used to you walking in here to twist words around to suit your AGENDA
26 Aug 2012, 10:01 am
@ 287 sharks lover
coloured trash? uh oh…..
26 Aug 2012, 10:01 am
What I haven’t really read so far in this blog – especially from the Keo – is in fact just how good the Argie forwards are; they have a magnificent history of forward play and have for more than a decade now got the top scrummaging technique on the planet. And yesterday they were magnificent and physical as heck.
Sadly, in giving it all, in Mendoza, they will be a little shot and short of the same level of play when they go against the AB’s next week and the conclusions of Bok ineptitude will persist without due acknowledgement of how brave and colossal that Puma pack is (in Menddoza particularly, where they have still never lost).
I watched in awe and am most pleased that they have justified their inclusion in the ‘Tri-Nations’, or whatever it is called now. The Wallabies forwards would have got massacred, the All Blacks would have been in one of the toughest games they have ever played.
God forbid we give credit where it is due.
26 Aug 2012, 10:02 am
@sharks_lover-297:
HHHHHHHHHHaaaaahahahahaahahahahha. Polygmamy. KZN. You savages.
26 Aug 2012, 10:03 am
What happened to Brumbies Boy aircrash story???
26 Aug 2012, 10:04 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-293: go back and read what i said, like they did a bad job on you, and the way you keep trolling like a kid everyday what you expect??
like today , first thing is to try target me, shows what class you are
@KeurboomPark-294: i have a mother, your father crapped you out when he had the runs you douche bag
26 Aug 2012, 10:05 am
@KeurboomPark-300: grow up gutter trash
26 Aug 2012, 10:06 am
typically the CApe flats scum come in causeing trouble and no doubt will be back soon on other Nics acting all innocent
Scum
26 Aug 2012, 10:07 am
Sa got PLENTY enough talent to put competitive rugby team together
Argy are amateurs with perhaps 1% of the player depth we have and 100% more ballas where it counts.. In the goddamn kopff.!!
These the players Bok coach should be looking at
W. Le Roux, A. Coetsee
JP Pietersen, G. Aplon, J. Engelbrecht
JdV, J. Serfontein
F.Steyn, JdJ, F. Venter
R. Rhule, B. Habana
J. Goosen, E. Jantjies, A. Coetsee
F. Hougaard, S. Pretorius
D. Vermeulen, M. Coetsee, A. Botha
W. Alberts, R. Elstadt, PS.d Toit, S. Kolisi, CJ Stander
H. Brussow, S. Kolisi
E. Etsebeth, J. Kruger, A. Bresler, A. Bekker, A. Van Zyl
R. Elstadt, W. Alberts, S. Sykes, G. Mostert, J. Deysel
Cilliers, Nel, Oosthuizen, Adriaanse
B. Du Plessis, D. Fourie, Liebenberg
Mwatarira, G. Steenkamp, D. Greyling, S. Kitchoff,
26 Aug 2012, 10:08 am
Crazy really, I have been sensing an upset whole week, and to be honest, this might be a blessing in disguise. Kankowski omission was a huge mistake. Playing a injured, out of form, Bekker was stupid. Leaving Kolisi at home at the expense of Potgieter smells of provincial bias. Morne was not as good last week as what they have made him out to be, he does not present a threat in any way on attack, Hougaards strengths are nullified at 9, and Kirchner won’t make the team at any of the NZ or Aus super rugby franchises.
Jean de Villiers has been the cancer in the bok backline since the very start, how blatantly obvious that is when he gets injured and we start scoring tries?
Against AUS:
1. Beast, 2. Burden, 3. Cilliers, 4. Alberts, 5. Etsebeth, 6. Kolisi, 7. Coetzee, 8. Kankowski, 9. Pienaar, 10. Goosen, 11. Habana, 12. FSteyn, 13. JDJ, 14. Hougaard, 15. Lambie
Jannie en Flip must have a really hard look at themselves, they are becoming serious liabilities wrt penalties. Pienaar is going to lose confidence in this team if he doesn’t get a start. If De Jongh starts passing, he is head and shoulders the best 13 playing SA – I would get Eberson involved as well. Ludick currently the best 15 in the country.
We are not as well stocked as we believed.
26 Aug 2012, 10:09 am
@sharks_lover-304:
Bottom line: KZN: Polygamy City. Low life women haters. Weg is jy.
26 Aug 2012, 10:11 am
@Rage-298: Eish, MAte i am sorry and will humbly appologise to the Decent Coloured folk in here
BUt there is a select few which on a daily basis cause major **** in here, like yesterday i was being called white trash, Funny though noone picked up on that
But yeah imma have to control my temper with trash like Keurkont,
SO to the decent Coloured Folk my apologies, and yes there are many in here, but a few real trash types
26 Aug 2012, 10:11 am
Heineke Meyer will also have to take a close look at his support team. In no way can any of those coaches be considered world class.
Meyer has gone for good ole’ loyalty. He has chosen staff that he knows and trusts. Lovely, but this is not the situation needed to generate inovative thought. Meyer has nobody in his coaching team that would suggest anything outside of the Meyer bible. Who is in charge of the forwards? He should be asked a few questions. I could tell you that Bekker never has been a lineout general. When has he ever done this job well? I know he’s tall boys, but that does not give him a rugby brain. Not once did we manage to put pressure on their lineout. The balance or lack thereof in the loose forwards has already been written about ad nauseum.
The backline? What backline? When the Argies klapped the forward runners in the midfield the Boks were finished. When brute force fails, the Boks have nothing. I saw almost nothing in terms of attack in the midfield. Nothing.
We are in kak here.
WELL DONE ARGENTINA. YOU DESERVED A WIN, NOT A DRAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
26 Aug 2012, 10:12 am
@KeurboomPark-307: Scum FO, funny the CApe is Known for the biggest bad treatment of woman in the country
get you facts straighht toothless scum
26 Aug 2012, 10:12 am
@sharks_lover-308:
Forget color/ You colonize women. You stink. Shark stink. Ugly.
26 Aug 2012, 10:14 am
fact is the Bok team should be primarily represented by the 2 best teams in SA, wp and the sharks – this is not the case. neither the sharks nor wp were good enough to win the s14 but 2 SA sides made it into the last 4. at present, the bok squad is based around the sharks and the bulls, with a smattering of wp players, the wrong ones, as an after thought.
there should be no surprise in these results.
26 Aug 2012, 10:14 am
@hensopper1-309: It does seem to be a thing all coaches do
26 Aug 2012, 10:15 am
We didnt loose, it’s a lesson. It’s a lesson to the public on the value of experience.
this team will get better and better.
Argentina have never lost in Mendoza. Have perspective..
HM knows how to coach. Just like Jake White does.
But you ******* have no clue what a good coach is.
26 Aug 2012, 10:16 am
@KeurboomPark-311: maybe you should stop taking all that tik? ur drivveling a load of **** you stupid ******* moron
put your teeth back, ur spewing drool all over your keyboard
26 Aug 2012, 10:16 am
@sharks_lover-313:
So profound. What do coaches do? You are such a naaikop, it is pathetic.
26 Aug 2012, 10:17 am
The only players to have played in Argentina previously were Habana and JDV.
I do think Morne’s days need to be numbered
26 Aug 2012, 10:18 am
Sigh. Sharks_lover just do not feed the two WP trolls Keurboom and Doggy Pedigree and they will leave you alone. They do it for the reactions you very kindly give them. Keep your class and let them show theirs…
26 Aug 2012, 10:18 am
I’m a Stormer fan but don’t get what all the fuss about Kolisi is? He has had a couple of good outings for the stormers but he’s not exceptional – yet. He will play for the Boks but is not there yet. Elstadt is needed to give the Boks some bite.
26 Aug 2012, 10:18 am
@sharks_lover-315:
When last did you beat your wife, and celebrate your cultural hegemony?
26 Aug 2012, 10:18 am
@Mike H-314: Amen mike
like i have said a few times, as he learns he will hopefully learn to be more open minded
Use more variety, @cab-312: Cab, come now half the ones you call for are injured, the other half are not there or good enough
out of those you mentioned, the only one i would have had there as he aint injured and i think he is much better than Potgieter is Kolisi,
HM is unfortunately stuck on his old style of Rugby, and i am hoping he can see this and start to move in another direection
26 Aug 2012, 10:21 am
This disaster if the result of a coach who is still operating in 1980′s style SA provincialism! Heyneke Meyer is only concerned with his agenda to select players from Pretoria and Durban. If the Argies can do this to the Pretoria/Durban team (with a few Cape Quota’s) the Aussies are going to murder us.. I won’t even mention what the NZ’ers are going to do!! God help SA rugby! Bring back the Clown Prince, Peter de Villiers… all is forgiven… He can’t be worse than Heyneke Meyer, for goodness sake!!
26 Aug 2012, 10:21 am
Coach Heyneke Meyer found the breakdown the area in which his team failed to gain an advantage as the Springboks could only manage a lucky 16-16 draw against Argentina in the second round of the Castle Rugby Championship game.
“All credit to Argentina,” said Meyer. “Where everything went wrong for us was at the breakdown. We had to play with slow ball which made it harder for us, but I thought that at times we played
No **** Shylock ! HM complete and utter disrespect shown to Brussow when announcing the 40 man squad [ this when Brussow was fully fit ] was the indication that he is a bloody J White pre Brumbies Damascus Road experience clone…
The dropping of J Kruger for an unfit A Bekker showed another weak point in HM thought processes.
How he deemed it okay to leave Kolisi out of the squad defies belief, and what the hell has Lambie done to deserve sitting on the bench the entire match while M Steyn literally bumbles his way through the entire match?
If HM can make a plan to get R Pienaar back for Boks why can he not make a similar plan for F Louw in Brussows absence?
I have tried to find a silver lining for HM ….dug deep to give him the benefit of the doubt, but if he doesent cut M Steyn loose after this debacle, and look for proper balance amongst the loose forwards, then I will be hoping and praying thet he gets replaced like pronto.
Watching Mallet post match dissect the game was a priviliege…..he is light years ahead of anyone else coaching in SA and is wasted sitting in Supersport studios [ although great to listen to him ]….
The Perth and Kiwi trip will be another watershed for HM…..and it starts with selections and game plan….
Get it wrong again Heyneke and you even run the risk of having your Pretoria fan base eroded….I fear that most of the rest of the country is about gatvol already…
26 Aug 2012, 10:22 am
@KeurboomPark-320: Na son see you dont know me at all, but yeah you are the type that steal from your parents beat them up rape your little girls and grannies
see low class scum like you are the reason there is racial hatred in this country
you have no upbringing, thus your first words in here was to swear at my mother
who by the way has passed away a while back, but see you think in your own uneducated way you are right, you think you have the right to swear at someones mother,
AND NO DOUBT YOU WILL ACT INNOCENT
you and your type are the filfth of the earth,
26 Aug 2012, 10:25 am
@grant10-323: Grant relax bro,
Look for me we still could have won yesterday, HM must learn however the read the situation, he seems to have gotten stuck on that one style of play.
26 Aug 2012, 10:26 am
@sharks_lover-321:
HM knows all about rugby, but he;s selecting the wrong players imo, the only players that are injured are goosen and brussow, and he has not selected eiterh when fit. vermeulen should be a shoe-into the squad. Fourie would take the Bok pack a quantum leap forward, and is even more essential, with the ommissions/injuries to our only fetchers in brussow, bismarck and coenie – i dont care what coetzee, white or meyer think about fourie, they are wrong – he is by far the most abrasive hooker along with Bismark in SA and fetches just as well too – the Boks would lose very little in this regard, it is like AndrewHore replacing Mealamu – and none of the 4 can throw. i dont care what the kenners think they know they are wrong – the primary thought should not be can he throw, it should be what does he bring to the pack dynamic – i.e. the bigger picture.
26 Aug 2012, 10:27 am
@Humphrey-318: You get it in one, why doesn’t he?
Because he is about as easy to target as the Boks kick and chase strategy 
Pa-*******-thetic…always innocent until someone throws it back in his face.
Classic online olympics.
26 Aug 2012, 10:29 am
@sharks_lover-324:
Viva Bruinouks. Listen to this Zuma man. Ugly KZN women hater.
26 Aug 2012, 10:30 am
@cab-326: CAbby when Vermeulen is fit no problem i agree
I keep telling you this though boet, you cannot select players that are not match fit
Goosen showed yesterday he is no where near ready for test rugby
So to answer you question re 10 without beinf sarcastic??
LAmbie and Jantjies would be my 10′s with Goosen groomed in the CC till he is ready and then plays his way into the team
26 Aug 2012, 10:32 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-327: see there again you admit your trolling and that makes you better that me how??
26 Aug 2012, 10:32 am
@sharks_lover-329:
that is true, you are right, but he’s now fit, maybe 1 or 2 matches, he cannot be any worse than potgieter, he and kolisi should def be in the 22, especially with juan smith out.
26 Aug 2012, 10:33 am
It will mean nothing really which ever players we choose to play. It is our game plan that has to be changed. Otherwise no matter who plays where we will get a bloody hiding from every team.
First thing that has to change is probably our coaches all of them. Head coach, backline coach and forward coach. They should all go.
We seriously just don’t have good coaches in this country. We should now just put our pride in our pocket and bring in a kiwi coach. I know Mitchell caused something at the Lions but really was it that bad? Have heard nothing really since. All I know is he and Carlos took no big names and made that Lions team last year play fantastic rugby. This year they were depleted from injuries. Otherwise speak to Plum he got the Sharks to play some brilliant rugby this year. Saffa coaches just can’t do it. Only one is Mallett and he really does not want this job. Mallett was scathing about our game plan yesterday and never worried about mentioning player names either that let the team down. Maybe we should beg him to come back, who knows we need a decent coach. The game we played yesterday made us look like we had been in isolation for the last 20 years and had no bloody clue.
WHY WHY WHY did we have Lambie on the bench and not use him? Meyer should HAVE brought him on to play flyhalf. Morne was just terrible again. Our two worst players yesterday was Bekker and Morne. Sorry to say none of them should ever wear the Bok Jersey again.
So bloody disappointed about our Boks yesterday and even the damn sun never came up today….. hahaha. Overcast. So that never went right today……lol.
Meyer hope you had Brussow on the top of your list of players to travel to Oz. Strauss too had a very poor game too. Jean not great either. Why take a scrum or kick for corners when we get a penalty? WHY? when we behind and needing points? Just could not understand that.
Whoever criticised Frans Steyn think again. He was our best player on the park yesterday. Without him we would have lost. The rest were just not great at all. Then no player will be playing that game plan. We were clueless out there. Such a shame to see a Bok team play that bad.
Meyer has no excuses saying this is not a experienced team. That is just plain rubbish. Jake took a very young team that most definitely was not experienced and won the Tri-Nations with them in the first year. If I remember we even beat ABs at Ellis Park 46 – 25 with that team. So there is NO excuses Meyer. It is your game plan that is useless.
26 Aug 2012, 10:34 am
@Dawn-301: I dunno about Brumbies Boy’s plane crash, but Sharks_Lover’s engine is crashing and burning in dramatic fashion….
His true colours are even uglier than what I thought they might be.
26 Aug 2012, 10:34 am
@KeurboomPark-328:
idiot you donty have a clue, you just keep rambliong away like the uneducated Munkey you are
26 Aug 2012, 10:34 am
Think HM brings to much gravitas to the Bok coaching role……
He should hang loose and let the players express themselves in their own unique way.
He needs some sensimilla……
26 Aug 2012, 10:35 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-333: only in your dreams clown
Multinic, you have no class
26 Aug 2012, 10:35 am
and actualy why have strauss and liebenberg superceded rallapelle in the pecking order? complete nonsense – rallapelle would offer far more, especially with the dearth of too-the-ball players in the current bok pack.
26 Aug 2012, 10:36 am
We still on the coloured toothless hag trash gemors thing here?
26 Aug 2012, 10:37 am
@Jeraldjay-335: That is prolly one of the most important things mate,, Players need to believe in themselves and be allowed to express thaat on the field
26 Aug 2012, 10:37 am
@sharks_lover-330: Because of the spectacular way you unravel online, and show your true colours. (And then disappear for a while, only to return and point fingers at everyone else who happens to be a WP fan, almost as though you forget your own words are imprinted on the interweb for eternity)
You really are that easy.
26 Aug 2012, 10:37 am
@Dawn-301:
I seem to remember it happened a couple of years ago.
26 Aug 2012, 10:37 am
@Dawn-338: yes just like we white trash and my mothers P03s etc etc etc
26 Aug 2012, 10:39 am
@sharks_lover-334:
Whatever. You and your KZN rapists, are pure loser scum. That’s it. You are bully trash pigs. and you know it. How’s the divorce?
26 Aug 2012, 10:39 am
Kirtchner, Van Graan, MSteyn all need to fu ck off ASAP.
26 Aug 2012, 10:39 am
@sharks_lover-336: And you’re an English Lord in the way you carry yourself?….
26 Aug 2012, 10:40 am
@David-341: your comment seems to me you condone what you fellow cape tonians say in here???
26 Aug 2012, 10:40 am
@sharks_lover-329: Lambie should have been brought on at flyhalf yesterday. Why the heck have him there and leave the one with a damn good rugby brain on the bench? At least he can come back with his head held high. He was not part of that horrible game we played yesterday. But seriously, why have a play maker like that on the bench and not use him? I know he never had a good game against the Chiefs, but he was out for a long time then. Now training with the Boks he would have been ready and far better than Morne at fh. He could have gotten our backline away, with Ruan there too. Hougie too is NOT a scrumhalf.
26 Aug 2012, 10:41 am
Show me where I spoke about your mother.
Unlike you.
26 Aug 2012, 10:42 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-345: Just reacting to your insults
I told you a long time ago leave me be and i will respond in kind, but everyday you and your ilk walk in here make smide remarks in attempts to insult and we should just sit back and clap hands hooray???
no sister you can go FUself.
I dont give a rats *** what you think of me, you meaN ZIP NADA
26 Aug 2012, 10:42 am
CAB @ 254.
Won by Bok s.Highly disputed drop goal by Colin Beck in last few minutes
the difference.Game played in good spirit.
26 Aug 2012, 10:43 am
@sharks_lover-342: Ummmmmm, Mormom toppie? You do recall bringing my parents into your little rants on at least 4 occasions? Yesterday morning for example? And I do believe I told you that I would not stoop as low as to bring your creators into any arguments?
Yet here you are, wailing and chest beating about the very thing YOU seem to pull up whenever I am smacking you in an argument?
Pfffffffffffffft. Time for me to find someone else to pick on. You present no challenge at all.
Have good day flipper.
26 Aug 2012, 10:43 am
@Puma-347:
puma – u only need ludik and bosman and i think u got the full sharks compliment, their win percentage was about 65% in S15 so i reckon we’d be looking at about a 50% win percentage for the Boks, oh wait Bismarck is out, make that 30%.
26 Aug 2012, 10:44 am
@sharks_lover-346:
Just accept the fact that every woman in your life has rejected you. Because you have issues that you have unresolved issues from your privelegded boarding school that you have not resolved. White master class wooffta.
26 Aug 2012, 10:45 am
@ryecatcher-350:
interesting, thanks, yeah i remember the toppie talking about that one.
26 Aug 2012, 10:45 am
@Dawn-348: I called you trash not your mother trash
and because i called you scum as you regular call anything Sharks you called me white trash etc etc
so dont come act innocent DAwn, again you like that pig dog, come on make your remarks in attemtps to insult and we should treat you wuth decency???? and show respect?? only in your dreams
If you left me out of you convos i would have left you alone as i always have, but whene i speak to someone giving my point of view you come in insulting with you little comments
No, not for you will i just sit back and accept it.
26 Aug 2012, 10:45 am
1.Steenkamp (bring him back)
2.Strauss
3.JdP(hoping for Coenie ASAP)
4.Etzebeth/Bakkies
5.Kruger
6.(dunno, waiting for Brussouw)
7.Alberts
8.Coetzee (waiting for Schalk,or Vermuelen or even Johnson)
9.Pienaar
10.Lambie
11.Habana
12.Steyn
13.De Villiers(Serfontein or Jordaan one day soon)
14.Hougaard
15.ACoetzee
26 Aug 2012, 10:46 am
@KeurboomPark-353: bwahahahaaaaaaaaaaaa, you have no clue, just keep rambling the **** you do , uneducated munkey, woman ion my life are fine, not sure the way you carry one i can say the same for you
but then again what can one expect from a moron
26 Aug 2012, 10:47 am
@Spiesisworthless1-356: Backline coach also required LOL, not Van Graan coaching those blokes. Would have an Aussie or Kiwi. Even Campese without a proven track record took the Sharks game to another level in 2007.
26 Aug 2012, 10:47 am
Also Meyer saying we need to train hard when we come back. Damn we need a rest more than train. When the SharkBoks were still to fly back from NZ he was asked if they would be tired. He just said that is their problem that is tough for them but they have to just get on with it (train straight away with the other Boks) that was rather daft of Meyer. The SharkBoks should have been rested for a week. Would have got more out of rest than straight into training. What too did they have to learn? WHAT? Crash ball, kick and chase? We could have rested and been up for it the next week. No need to train for that?
REST is as important as training. I wonder how tired some of the players are right now? So Meyer saying they need to train hard he needs to think hard about that. They need to rest up for a few days this week.
26 Aug 2012, 10:47 am
@sharks_lover-355:
*** pride, Homie. Let it all out. We can take you in De Waterkant.
26 Aug 2012, 10:49 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-351: there is a big difference in saying your parents did raise you well then saying your mothers **** etc
because see heres the diffs??
Do you see me walking in here and making snide remarks in attemps at trolling you everyday?? NO NO.
I ignore you as i dont like you i dont think you you have any class, but you only come in here to seek attention , thus you target anything non Cape etc
Again i repeat. leave me the **** alone and i will do the same, but i will not sit back in here and take your ****,
26 Aug 2012, 10:49 am
TRANSFORMATION IS CORRECT.It was a draw.
26 Aug 2012, 10:50 am
I have been reading the posts on here for a couple of years and always enjoy getting a SA perspective on rugby. This is the first time I have wanted to leave a comment.
I wholeheartedly agree with the posters stating the Argentina should be given some credit.. They have a remarkable track record at home and as an All Black supporter I watched nervously as we only beat them in the last 15 minutes in the RWC quarter final last year (at Eden Park where we have a decent record).
I think Argentina is a fantastic addition to the 3N competition and it should definitely help them develop/continue into a top tier rugby nation. Even though I watched in despair in the stands as we lost to France in the ’07 RWC and it did not make for a great RWC personally, I loved watching the Argentinians play a fantastic mix of forward power and some great back-line moves during the tournament, and for me they were the second best team at that RWC behind SA.
I also find it amazing that alot of posters are talking about SA rugby being in disarray and lack of attacking ability in the backs. I think the team is in transition and some people may have taken for granted the fact you have had a team of “once in a generation” players and in Victor Matfield the greatest lock I have ever seen play rugby in 30 years… Players like Smith, Du Preez, Matfield, Botha can not just be replaced overnight, just as the AB’s struggled to replace Fitzpatrick, Brooke, Brown in the late 90′s – unfortunately you are seeing a reversion to norm.
Once you have a backline featuring Goosen (who I have been telling SA friends in London about since watching him carve up the Sharks in a Currie Cup game last year and drop a 50 metre goal), Lambie and Jordaan in the inside backs, then you will have creativity that you need to play against certain sides..
By all means get annoyed when you team isn’t playing well, that passion is the same that keeps AB’s and SA in the top 3 rugby nations always, but also apply some empathy to the young players coming into the SA team that are replacing some of your greatest players… no easy task!
Finally, welcome Argentina, you may have annoyed some South African supporters, but I for one would rather the AB’s lost to a fellow southern hemisphere country like you, than the old foe England!!
26 Aug 2012, 10:50 am
@KeurboomPark-360: FO little boy
26 Aug 2012, 10:50 am
SharksBoks flew back from NZ and were back on that Sunday night. Think the SharkBoks were straight into training on the Tuesday with the rest of the Bok Squad. Now that was rather daft. They should have rested that week and joined up with the rest the following week.
Remember reading Bissie saying he could not sleep at all on that Tuesday night as he was still so jet lagged. Did Meyer not think of that? Body and mind needs a rest before it can perform to its best. This week we most definitely need to rest a few days before we do this (Hard Training) as he has suggested.
26 Aug 2012, 10:51 am
@Puma-359:
the sharkboks are going to get hammered, just like they did in s15 when missing eiterh bismark, beast or alberts – doesnt matter what gameplan, you cant play without the ball – time to go cap-in-hand to the kapenaars to ask them to get u some ball and then we can see the lipozanos shine once more in skitterende glory.
26 Aug 2012, 10:52 am
@sharks_lover-361:
Gaye pride. We see you need us. It is obvious. Very precious. Kissy kisssy kissy. sharK shite. Who’s your polygamy?
26 Aug 2012, 10:52 am
@Puma-359: HIyas Puma,
26 Aug 2012, 10:52 am
@sharks_lover-346: You sadly are also a fellow Capetonian….much to my daily amusement.
@sharks_lover-349: Well you obviously do care what I think….as you spend a helluva lot of time and energy trying to justify your online meltdowns and outbursts
You remind me a little of Meyer in the coaching box – totallyfuckinghysterical.
I don’t think you have any idea who or what you are anymore
26 Aug 2012, 10:53 am
I ask again
Show me where I spoke about your mother
26 Aug 2012, 10:53 am
@Puma-365: Puma the best thing is that all sharks should be dropped,
LET THE TABLE TOPPPING STORMERS FILL ALL POSITIONS
i mean they whipped the Lions saturday didnt they???
26 Aug 2012, 10:54 am
I dont believe JDV is a 13……that is another major problem HM has brought onto his shoulders…..because F Steyn is the 12 and now the captaincy issue raises its head once again in SA rugby… JDV runs across the field constantly, cuts down space….he is a 12 or a bencher….
Go look at the Stormers last campaign….we did bestter when Habana was at 13 and JDJ ongh at 12….
26 Aug 2012, 10:55 am
@Dawn-370: cant help yourself can you??
26 Aug 2012, 10:55 am
@sharks_lover-371:
Way too much gaye imagery here.
26 Aug 2012, 10:55 am
@cab-337: Chili is injured Cabbie. Think he might be available for the Oz and Nz tour.
26 Aug 2012, 10:56 am
@wallaceuk-363:
probably the most balanced comment of all – but Boks should not be losing or drawing to Argentina – the Argentinians played exceptionally well and the flanker lobbes is worldclass, but for SA to draw to a team with such a miniscule player base is very poor from an SA viewpoint, and a magnificent achievement from an Argentinian viewpoint – I cant say I was that surprised, I was more surprised at how easilt they repelled the Boks and imo fully deserved a win, like Wales did in the 1/4 final against the Boks. Those games would have been won 9 times out of 10 by the other side.
26 Aug 2012, 10:56 am
@cab-326:
There are some so called ‘kenners’ in here that know absolutely FCKall about rugby is it should be played
No way in HELL should Boks lose to Argy which apart from a god given gift out of heaven yesterday we LOST
Boks pack yesterday should have been
Coetsee
Alberts
Kolisi
Etsebeth
Elstadt
Cilliers
Fourie
Beast
Greyling, Liebenberg, JdP, Kruger, Stander / Steggman / Daniel
5/2 bench
And Boks would have wacked these dudes like was expected.
The tossbox brains trust in Bok rugby as presented by Mike H and S.L and HM is pretty much LOSE first and find your lost mojo before you ever get enlightened
Meyer is lost without a clue, Louden brought him out of his inadequacies before. White was LOST till Jones saved his arse.
SA rugby understanding is archaic by leap years.
We are STILL playing the SAME garbage rugby that Streauli, White and the Smit run Fat Boys club have done SINCE oupa fell off the bus in 2000. Kick and chase, KICK AND CHASE !! The FdP – Smit – White – Meyer Fckup garbage rugby that belongs in the archetypal godverdompft AGES…!!
26 Aug 2012, 10:56 am
@sharks_lover-361: No no. You told me that I was born of parents who practised sodomy…..and that if I wanted to see ‘***’ I should look no further than my father.
So: to correct you (or remind you), you made no comment about how my parents raised me, but directly took a swipe at them, not me. See?
So any comments about your mother’s anything, are exactly the same as what you have heaped on my parents. Interesting to note though – that I have refused to throw anything your way in terms of familial insults, because however you try and justify it, it is absolutelytrashypersonified.
26 Aug 2012, 10:57 am
Simple question which you seem unable to answer
26 Aug 2012, 10:57 am
@grant10-372: Here Grant is the team as it should be
Should keep most happy in here
15 Joe Petersen
14 Aplon
13 JDJ
12 JDV
11 Habana
10 Grant
09 Call back January/Dewald
08 Vermeulen
07 Elstadt
06 Kolisi
05 Bekker
04 Etsebeth
03 Brok
02 Fourie the mighty
01 Rooikop
16 Liebenburg
17 Ask for a Bulls player to help you out here? just to add injury to insult.
18 DFe Kock Steenkamp
19 Schalk
20 Louis Schreuder
21 JP Du Plessis
26 Aug 2012, 10:57 am
@sharks_lover-371: Its our terrible game plan. Just does my head in this daft game plan of Meyers.
SharkBoks will be tired and hope that Meyer finally gives them a rest that he should of when we returned from NZ.
26 Aug 2012, 10:58 am
@sharks_lover-346:
About the plane crash? What are you talking about?
26 Aug 2012, 10:58 am
@sharks_lover-371: Like the Sharks whipped the Bulls of course, with Bok ‘must haves’, Jordaan, Deysel, McLeod, Ludik, Viljoen, Bresler etc really pulling out all the stops
My my, it was just last week ALL of those fellows were touted as world beaters.
26 Aug 2012, 10:58 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-378: and go look back at what i responded too, as i say dont troll with your little insults if you dont want response.
26 Aug 2012, 10:59 am
@sharks_lover-380:
You pathetic w@nker.
26 Aug 2012, 11:00 am
@David-382: Forget it Dave sorry if i misread what you said, kinda busy with idiots in here that walked in with one piurpose and thats to start ****
Apologies
26 Aug 2012, 11:00 am
@grant10-372: Frans Steyn was our best player on the field Grant. So we can’t drop him.
Sorry to say this, Jean was a disappointment yesterday. Would like eventually to see Jordaan wearing that jersey. Or right now JdJ, but he never passes. Tim Whitehead was superb too for the Sharks. BUT really no matter who plays it is our game plan that should change.
26 Aug 2012, 11:00 am
@grant10-372:
Weren’t you punting JdV as a 13 for the Stormers?
26 Aug 2012, 11:00 am
@KeurboomPark-385: drolling again gutter trash?? sorry excuse for a human??
26 Aug 2012, 11:03 am
@Puma-387: Nope Puma they should drop him
26 Aug 2012, 11:03 am
I happen to believe that HM has a plan.He is sorting the wheat from the chaff.
Just wish that he would stop his girlish(Sorry ladies)posturing in the
coaching box when game not going well.
26 Aug 2012, 11:05 am
i think Hougaard could be molded into a fullback. he is a really good wing but fullback could see him come alive. I think he could be of the same mold as Israel Dagg.
he has all the skills, running, kicking and positional play. the boks need fullbacks as im not convinced lambie is the full package
26 Aug 2012, 11:06 am
@sharks_lover-380: 3rd time you have posted that, and yet your attempt at sarcasm does nothing to address the REAL problems the Boks are facing moving forward.
It seems you are more than happy to draw with Argentina, lose to the AB’s 7 times, get kicked in the *** by Australia and Scotland just as long as there are NO WP players in the Bok team.
You have got so used to making excuses for all the Sharks fukkups over the years, that you will merrily take a Bok team seeing their backsides week after week, as LONG as it is filled with Sharks players and a token Bull or 2?
You see me, I don’t give a sh y te where a player comes from, I really don’t, and I will dish out scorn on any player who sucks. I’e. Bekker, de Villiers yesterday. Can you do the same and admit that Coetzee and Jannie (and to a lesser extent Beast) were ineffective as well? And that Frans Steyn, although he got lucky, has not been effective in his last 2 games?
If you can do that, there is hope for you.
26 Aug 2012, 11:06 am
@fitz1ella-377:
agree with most of that, but White selected very well imo. HM has made some v good selection like Alberts, Steyn and now Kolisi and Cilliers -but these are few and far between – so maybe u right that he’s a slow thinker and takes too long to get ducks in a row but thats no good for Boks – its simply really the two best teams are wp and sharks – wp ended up in 1st place for a reason winning 80% of their games – to be represented by 10% of the 22 is a farce bordering on outright provincial blindness.
26 Aug 2012, 11:07 am
Find it crazy how Potgieter was picked for.the squad ahead of Kolisi, J Strauss or even Dewald Potgieter
He was picked for the bok squad againdt England WHEN INJURED after missing weeks of super rugby. Plus he has only play 6 weeks of super rugby EVER! The only reason he is there is because of his mentor. Fact.
26 Aug 2012, 11:07 am
@sharks_lover-386: Keep up Mormon, you are falling behind.
26 Aug 2012, 11:07 am
I am constantly left confused by Bok Coaches….
constantly…
26 Aug 2012, 11:09 am
@ryecatcher-391: Eish Rye, he might have a plan but right now that plan is more to blame that is the case with the players,
you can see these players are playing under strict instructions,
I am not calling for his head, just hoping he will open his eyes and use the talent at hand more wisely
Yesterday with 20 to go he could have brought lambie on and changed the game plan to more attacking ball in hand, yet he just stuck with more and they kicked even more,
26 Aug 2012, 11:09 am
@Puma-387: JDV would not be in my Bok team…
26 Aug 2012, 11:10 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-393: So what?? My point of view, ignore and move on, simple aint it??
hard thing to do huh??
26 Aug 2012, 11:11 am
@David-388: not me Dave…
26 Aug 2012, 11:11 am
@Puma-387:
jordaan u say? ok i think u got the full compliment now – i reckon we be heading for a 30% season.
26 Aug 2012, 11:12 am
@grant10-399: Grant problem is not so much with JDV,
the problem is the Coach is hell bent on making that 1 game plan work,
Agaon like i have repeated over and over, why not be more open minded as a coach,
Yes he has only just started, he needs time, but even with the players there yesterday had the approach been more flexible we could have won
26 Aug 2012, 11:13 am
@cab-402: Jordaan is not ready yet, needs another season
I also think a season next to Fransie and Lambie will settle him more as a player
26 Aug 2012, 11:14 am
@sharks_lover-400: It’s not a point of view unless you can back it up with fact.
Why did the Bulls beat the Currie Cup black and white dynamite last night? Were the ‘dynamite’ exhausted from the travel to Pretoria? Was it the traffic from the airport? Lumpy mattresses in the hotel? Dodgy eggs for breakfast? What?
Give me your ‘point of view’ – please do
Have a fantastic day you old goat. And remember, however kak things may look (and however stupid you may look) you are still prvileged to wake up in Cape Town every morning. And that oldwobblyjowls, is all that really matters – quality of life
26 Aug 2012, 11:16 am
Sheez,
I’m appalled as a bok supporter. 50% because of how we played, and 50% because I’m associated with the fellow bloggers on this thread with the insults and profanity.
Grow up with the insults! You’re making most SA supporters look ludicrous, and you lose all credibility.
Now the game. We should never lose to Argies. Putting the game into context, were missing some serious players through injuries or whatever. They players who are there need to take accountability for what’s been on show. No synergy and a serious lack of cohesion of players as a unit. It looks like trials rugby, everyone trying to do things on their own. Poor.
HM needs to take responsibility for this. He has had long enough to get the players into a pattern now, and we looked devoid of that on saturday.
Pumas outplayed us on the ground. Big problem as they’re not known scavengers of the ball. Our pack weighed 935kg to their 880 odd. Damn it, get some balance.
Almost all players were poor, take provincialism out of it.
Ref was decent, as have all refs been decent.
HM – have a rest this week, team needs it, and get a game plan together, and choose the players who can execute it.
You’re losing support trying to make Bekker into Matfield, Hougard into de preez, M steyn into anyone who can run.
The rest of the serious non performers won’t be there when the uninjured return.
26 Aug 2012, 11:16 am
@grant10-401: Infact i reckon JDV is playing the same as is the instruction under Coetzee, more defense minded
Also look at the attacking structures yesterday and it lacks coaching big time.
not sure who is coaching the backline moves or lack of moves
26 Aug 2012, 11:16 am
@sharks_lover-404:
i think jordaan looks v promising and along with serfontein and rhule should be thereabouts – but de jong is ready now – he and frans steyn could make an absolutely deadly centre pairing on attack, causing the oppo great problems, they are very different and could compliment each other to outstanding effect, something we have not had in a longtime.
26 Aug 2012, 11:18 am
They say Poppa implodes on this blog,but if this blog was an Olympic sport Sharks_lover would have won the gold medal for implosion gymnastics by a country mile.On a serious note the administrator of this blog should have a serious look at his sickening comments on this blog.
26 Aug 2012, 11:20 am
cant blame any of the backline behind a pack without go-forward but i think it might be time for goosen or lambie at 10 to take the ball flatter and move it around.
26 Aug 2012, 11:21 am
Frans Steyn was NOT the best player yesterday.. wtf do these sharkshits actually dream about?
Frans Steyn latched onto ONE kick that saved the game.. That is ALL he did…
Boks best players yesterday was Hougaard.. (who should NEVER have been subbed to wing for Pienaar.. If ANYTHING.. Pienaar should have come on for Morne.. That is what should have happened and Hougaard should have STAYED at No.9 which IS his PREFERRED position and he is WORLD CLASS at it . All these so called ‘kenners’ clamoring for Hougaard to be dropped from 9 and played full back or wing.. Are they COMPLETELY goddamn NUTS.!!!!)
and then Alberts and Etsebeth.. Those the 3 bok players putting up their hands highest yesterday.. Hougaard, Alberts and etsebeth… Frans Steyn scored a gimme lucky packet try.. rest of the game he was pretty much nowhere..
JdV made some telling runs into Argy territory but support running was non existent,. unlike AB’s who ALWAYS got 2 or 3 support runners on the strike runners shoulder.. go check AGAIN.. JdV made some BIG excursions into Argy territory but NOBODY was near him when it broke down or he was brought to ground.. and couple times end result was Argy turnover.. just like it was when Coetsee or Kirchner or Steyn or Hougaard broke through first line of defense.
26 Aug 2012, 11:26 am
@Rhys7-395:
you quite right. And that’s the reason why the rest of the Bulls players are there. Not because they’re Bulls, but because HM personally signed or mentored them when he was in charge there.
26 Aug 2012, 11:27 am
What happened to the mavericks like Michael du Plessis,Danie Gerber,
Mannetjies Roux etc?
All individuality has been coached out of our players.
Bt the way,well played Argentina.Your forwards were immense.
26 Aug 2012, 11:30 am
JdV should be on the wing imo, he;s always played v well there, he;s a good captain and a great finisher and got a good top-end and has the size that is nice for one of the wingers too have, but he’s not what the Boks need in midfield for penetration ala williams kahui nonu etc, i;d go with the bursty acceleretation and sharpness of de jong at at 12 to sythe thru defences and open them clean up with game-breaking line-breaks – you have the perfect crashball 12 in Frans to get over adv line when required and the bursty pace and balanced running of de jong at 13 to go thru any half-gaps. could be phenomenal.
26 Aug 2012, 11:32 am
@grant10-401: was me.. JdV much better at 13 than at 12.. Both JdV AND F. Steyn die with the ball… NO SA center plays consistent offload rugby like SBW does.. but JdV is heaps faster than F. Steyn and JdV has actually been HM’s saving grace because he is by FAR the best Bok candidate for Captaincy.. without JdV I reckon HM would have lost more than the 2 draws he got behind his name thus far..
If it were FdP running the game as HM wanted I say we would have LOST at least a couple by now.. Same if Matfield were captain..
But JdV could even go one place out further to wing which is where he played much of his early successful rugby and allow some proper play maker in at 12
SA backline options
Hougaard (MUST stay at 9 – NOT to wing or anywhere else) / back up Pretorius
Goosen / Jantjies / Pienaar / Lambie
Rhule, Habana, Engelbrecht
Steyn, de Jongh, Venter
Serfontein, de Jongh, JdV, Jordaan, Engelbrecht, Pietersen
Pietersen, Aplon, JdV, A. Coetsee, W. Le Roux
A. Coetsee, W. Le Roux, Taute, Fouche
26 Aug 2012, 11:32 am
sorry FS at 12, JDJ at 13, JdV at 14, JP at 11, Hougaard at 9, Aplon or Viljoen at 15.
26 Aug 2012, 11:35 am
Springboks coach Heyneke Meyer says he intends to discuss the concept of a unified playing style for all South African franchises with their coaches.
‘In future I would like to
install a national style of play
and defence and all the attributes that go with it, and
everybody should buy in,’
Meyer said.
‘I am realistic and know you can’t force people to play the same, but there should at least be a common goal and places where you can touch base”
26 Aug 2012, 11:35 am
I reckon we would have won if we had tried ONE more up and under.
26 Aug 2012, 11:36 am
Laughable is the fact that morn,hougaard,potgieter are the ones to blame…..but no mention of our front row and locks..except for bekker who was particularly poor. Our tight forwards and will single out Beest in particular for this example because he is the most experienced of our forwards….are offering us nothing at the collisions. Compare our front 5 with that of the argetines and we can see that this before anything else is a massive issue. It is some time since i have see our set piece so ordinary and in particular the lineout.
I thought our backrowers individually were all good enough performance wise but as a collective not. Laugh all you want but we are mot definately missing Spies in this regard….and then we consider our crappy lineout. But it will take a few more tests without him to fully appreciate him. I would definately agree however that the backrow need to more time together to become a better effective unit and inexperience is definately valid reasoning when all your backrowers are test match greenhorns.
Personally, i am a little embarrased for for ashwell willemse and mallet. For 2 personalities actually involved professionally in rugby to completely exclude the fact that every side wanting to create something needs its fair share of go forward ball and then pointing to “gameplan”….is laughable. In particular as the argentines played a far more rigid with their game the only difference being that their front five completely outplayed ours, i would say much of it illegal at the breakdown though in my opinion. I would also say that for the second consecutive weekend they got away with no yellow cards. Amplyfying the problem is the fact that the field in mendoza is shorter width wise which will not allow anyside t get around their defence…and their defence and attitude is great. In this regard kick chase was an even more valid approach on this occassion as you would need to turn around their defenders….but our chase yesterday was rubbish with mvovo inparticularly poor.
I would also like to say that willemse has quickly changed colours as he always talked up jake white who had a shocking “game” in 2006″, albeit also injury and inexperience forced.As for Mallet, well he is quickly punditting himself out of any future coaching roles. What ceo is going to employ a coach who flays plays in public. Meyer is thrice the man manager who will back his players but let them know privately that he has issues with the performance. I would not wanted to have been in that changing room after the game for all the tea in china.
Also, fair play to the argies, they are where the srilankans were before they were given test cricket status. In 10 years they are going to be a genuine superpower and are already very clever in selecting the correct field to amplyfy their limited game of have a strong set piece, abusing the breakdown and strong midfield defence negating any teams that want width on their home patch.
26 Aug 2012, 11:36 am
@Piker-418:
LMAO
26 Aug 2012, 11:41 am
@Transformation-417: you serious???
26 Aug 2012, 11:41 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-419: No.
Laughable is the fact that you and some others claimed that Heyneke knows best, and that the stupid bloggers who criticise the selections should keep their mouths shut and accept that the team is in good hands.
A Springbok team with a 60% winning ratio against superpowers England and Argentina is, in one word, unacceptable.
26 Aug 2012, 11:44 am
Frans Steyn our best player on the field? Apart from his charge down he was nowhere. Don’t see what all the fuss about him is. Each game we have to hear how he stands up in tackle and offloads and tackles opposing players back. I have yet to see this in all the games he’s played so far this year. Too much hype around this oke.
Bekker needs to pull his head out of his @ss as well. He has been nothing but disappointing! Where is the rampaging bull of 2010? If he’s injured he should recover fully before being selected. Unfortunately Juandre Kruger brings nothing to the table. Big softy!
26 Aug 2012, 11:45 am
I would say that very definate candidates that we need from europe for me would be guthro and bakkies…..but it too late for that already. Their nastiness in the collision and ruck clean is sorely missed.
26 Aug 2012, 11:47 am
Arrogant is you that believes he knows better….
26 Aug 2012, 11:47 am
The boks need variation.
They need variation in their gameplan, from their halfbacks (not 2 kick-chase clones), in their backrow (not 3 ballrunners), at lock (not three no 5 locks), and in their backline (de jong and aplon bring some footwork to change things up).
26 Aug 2012, 11:49 am
meyer is trying to impose homogeneity, rather than embracing SA biggest strength, its variety.
26 Aug 2012, 11:50 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-419: Brig, you must admit though that even though he is a good coach, mush of the problem lays with him being to one dimensional in his approach?
surely he has more vision that what we have seen till now?
Everyone always blames the players, and dont get me wrong, i am not suggesting he should get fired, hell no.
But those same players play a different style within thier own unions?
No problem he started the match with his style of play, after 40 you see it;s not working?? what now? we kick even more as was the case yesterday??
Surely you must read the game in progress, surely he should use all options to him, He says,a dnhe does seem to say al alot.
But he says he wants to give players a chance?? sorry but it seems not to be the case, Lambie has sat on the bench in 2 matches, he has had the chance to use lambie who plays a different way to Morne, FLatter attacking ball in hand approach could have been used, DID THAT HAPPEN?
Nope instead he chose to stick to that one style win lose or draw, thats the problem i have.
Players are being told how to play and no use of own thinking on the field seems to be allowed
26 Aug 2012, 11:51 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-419: Meyer going to fall apart by looks of how he hits panic stations in the coaching box..
Meyer FAR too rigid to be a successful international coach.. way too one minded pig headed rigid to allow any lateral thinking.. and already his pathetic picks in the ENTIRE pack with PARTICULARLY 3 loose ball carriers and NO tough guys in the engine room doing the hard nitty gritty
When he started out he selected Spies, Alberts, Coetsee, Kankowski, Potgieter
WHICH one of those is a too the ball hard as nails grafter.. WHICH ONE…??
NONE and NEITHER is your answer.. but ALL the goddamn pundits protected his thick as a plain plank picks as a masterstroke.. bring Potgieter to the party has FAILED thrice.. yet he persists with his dumb plank IDIOCY..
Same as White who got THRASHED by 49-0 for EXACTLY the SAME dumb PLANK reasons…!!!
Brussow gotta be laughing right up his ball fetching hard as nails grafting sleeve watching this goddamn fiasco unfold.. and so should all the other hard as nails grafters on the fringes of bok rugby watching Alberts, Coetsee, Spies and Potgieter go about their NON breakdown contesting business
26 Aug 2012, 11:51 am
I am glad that Coetzee got exposed as nothing but a good super rugby player.He is way too individualistic to be a solid and great test player.
26 Aug 2012, 11:53 am
We’ll take you home and away this year and widen the win/loss ratio to 14.
26 Aug 2012, 11:53 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-425: I’m sorry, but no again.
Arrogant is when the coach don’t take into consideration 99% of the rugby public’s (including some very respected former coaches and players) views on certain issues.
I don’t know better than the coach, but when such an overwhelming majority of people agree with each other, then surely Meyer should at least acknowledge this and ask himself why the public disagree with his selections and gameplan?
26 Aug 2012, 11:54 am
With a result like that they would have called for PdV’s head.Fact.
26 Aug 2012, 11:55 am
@Piker-418:
THAT would have done the trick .. absolutely NO doubts about it..
Just ask Heyneke to IMPLEMENT his no lateral thinking rigid up and under dark ages Streauliesque, JW, FdP – J. Smit , thick as three bricks monotony..
I can see BIG tears down the track.. this MORON so FIXED in his RIGID structured IDIOCY is going to go about crucifying himself..
I give him 2 years tops before he blows.. if that
26 Aug 2012, 11:56 am
@wnbb-430: Capo, Coetzee did not get exposed, Bekker did
26 Aug 2012, 11:56 am
@wnbb-433: Brigadier? Certainly.
26 Aug 2012, 11:57 am
The 17 straight test win record set by Fred Allen’s team in the 60′s is also under threat again this year, when we spanked the Irish 60 nil it should have set off big alram bells around the rugby world.
26 Aug 2012, 11:59 am
@willievz-432:
well I know better than the coach in this instance.. same as I knew when White was so far out his depth the only thing going to FIX him was a mammoth loss – like 49-0 .. White should have been FIRED then and there..!!!
The only thing that saved Whites arse and his credibility was he himself EVENTUALLY realized what a pathetic one track minded moron coach he was and hired somebody to do his lateral thinking for him..
I wonder if HM got sufficient humility to do that or he just blows apart and walks when the crunch gets too big for his resistance..
26 Aug 2012, 11:59 am
On this display I expect the Boks to lose both their games against the Kiwis and at least the away game against the Aussies.If they lose all four it may come down to a straight shoot-out between them and Argentina for the wooden spoon position.
26 Aug 2012, 11:59 am
@NZINCHINA-431:
told you, all part of the plan, pity we didnt lose to argy, then there would have been some sweeping changes – actually SA penchant for ballrunners is a bit bizarre, not ballcarriers ala alberts who gets over the adv line and retains everytime in contact, but the lipozanos who look to be going the clapper but make zero headway – that should hopefully all change now – if not, yes you will beat us home and away.
26 Aug 2012, 12:00 pm
@cab-408: They could be a very good center pair, wont argue with that.
26 Aug 2012, 12:01 pm
The ABs are scary good at the moment. It amazes me that a pissy country of 4 million can dominate this game so much. It’s like other countries just aren’t trying. Frightening really.
26 Aug 2012, 12:04 pm
Does Heaven’s Game still post here? What about Kobus Kitty? Or have they died along with Springbok Rugby?
26 Aug 2012, 12:04 pm
Brussows omission was a travesty of justice.
To not make a 40 man squad defies belief. Simply defies belief I tell you….
26 Aug 2012, 12:04 pm
@cab-440:
if the Aussies take you in Perth its going to be a shambles
26 Aug 2012, 12:05 pm
@Muttonbird-443: Run along troll
26 Aug 2012, 12:05 pm
@NZINCHINA-445:
depends entirely on who they pick – i maintain we could beat both you and oz if right players picked.
26 Aug 2012, 12:06 pm
What’s wrong with Beast?He is not contributing much to the game nowadays.Maybe it’s all that Sharks travelling impacting on his normally explosive play.
26 Aug 2012, 12:06 pm
@grant10-444: Must say that was a huge shock, i can understand Brussow not playing now as he is injured, but before he got injured?? yeah huge shock
26 Aug 2012, 12:06 pm
Not one of our forwards today can pass a ball. Both our nines take 15 steps sideways and then pass. Our 10 kicks everything away, no matter wtf is going on around him. Our 12 and 13s crash every ball up. Our back 3 never see the ball because of the other 12 players. Pointless gameplan that is not going to beat many teams in the top 8. We won’t be in the top 6 teams by end of the year.
26 Aug 2012, 12:06 pm
Not one of our forwards today can pass a ball. Both our nines take 15 steps sideways and then pass. Our 10 kicks everything away, no matter wtf is going on around him. Our 12 and 13s crash every ball up. Our back 3 never see the ball because of the other 12 players. Pointless gameplan that is not going to beat many teams in the top 8. We won’t be in the top 6 teams by end of the year.
26 Aug 2012, 12:07 pm
@grant10-444: It was.
And Heyneke has completely f*ckedup any possible working relationship with him.
Behind Burger, Coetzee and Kolisi in the pecking order? Cringeworthy.
26 Aug 2012, 12:08 pm
@garth-450: does that not happen because of pre planned instructions?? and coaching??
26 Aug 2012, 12:10 pm
432…come now, if it was up to the public you,d have a different match 22 every week even after games we win.
I truely believe that a team has to earn the right to go wide. In fact…..that is rule 1 withregards to any tactic on the day. Laughable are those that point to nz as an example completely ignoring the fact that they always have their fair share of go forward ball and recycled ball quickly. In fact the only times they really only lose a game is when the boks are at their best and match them physically at the gain line and setpiece….in those games their backline variation never looks to flash because of….rule 1, in my opinion.
Much is being made of having no out and out fetcher. My opinion varies in this regard, yes..it is good to have one, yes…everyone should be able to steal ball. In fact, it was the only interesting fact highlighted on reunion this past week when it was mentioned that whomever arrives first at the breakdown for the all blacks is the fetcher and not the perceived mccaw or messam. If there was a very physical fetcher in sa in the wikus vanheerden mould, he would be in the team tomorrow but given our current lineout jokes i do not feel we can currently accomodate a 5.8 fetcher/not a valid lineout option.
26 Aug 2012, 12:10 pm
@sharks_lover-453: Those players are selected with that plan in mind, big guys bashing it up. Has that ever worked at international level?
26 Aug 2012, 12:11 pm
@cab-447:
good in theory Cabbie and an easy line to throw out there but the reality is very very different
26 Aug 2012, 12:12 pm
@willievz-452: That is my concern Willie….Brussow may well be feeling complete apathy for HM…..I wonder what went down at the 1 on 1 they had? Something went badle awry…. In the latest SA Illustrated Mallet has an article explaining why Brussows inclusion a neccessity.
How i would love to have Mallet back…
26 Aug 2012, 12:12 pm
433…..twakkie lost us 2 scotland with a vastly superior bok side. Fact.
26 Aug 2012, 12:13 pm
@garth-455: Thats my point, Many are blamming the players, i think the coach is responsible for how they are playing
26 Aug 2012, 12:14 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-454: So to get this straight, after watching the game you’d still not pick Brussouw because our 2m+ locks cannot catch a ball?
26 Aug 2012, 12:14 pm
@NZINCHINA-456:
I’ll let u know whether i think we can win as soon as the team is announced – this team will not win a single remaining match in the RC imo.
26 Aug 2012, 12:14 pm
@sharks_lover-446: No sir. I want to catch up with me auld mates HG and KK. Are they still sure of the genetic superiority of the Bokke, or not?
26 Aug 2012, 12:14 pm
@grant10-457: That same coach cost us a WC
26 Aug 2012, 12:15 pm
I totally agree with you G10.Brusow is way better than the current loosies that we have at the moment.Hopefully Vermeulen’s improved fitness and performances will see him claim the number eight berth as well.Alberts was woeful yesterday.Brusow at 6,Kolisi at 7 and Vermeulen at 8 should be the way forward.
26 Aug 2012, 12:15 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-454:
if it was up to the KEO punters you’d have 137 different loose forward combinations, I think that says it all about Bokke rugby at present, absolutely no idea
26 Aug 2012, 12:16 pm
Seriously though, have the Bokke gone backwards since firing PDV? Seems that way to me. ABs to rape them in SA and NZ. Here, first.
26 Aug 2012, 12:17 pm
@sharks_lover-459: I blame them all. The players are not executing the gameplan, but it’s a sh1tty gameplan.
26 Aug 2012, 12:17 pm
Keegan made a difference in a cameo last night….
Lambie was not afforded an opportunity, not even 5 minutes, despite M Steyn playing so damn poorly.
Surely that is goodnight nurse for MS…..surely…
26 Aug 2012, 12:18 pm
Scotland got a greater rugby history and pedigree than Argentina.Fact.
26 Aug 2012, 12:19 pm
@grant10-468: Yep. Morne Steyn is like Honiball’s retarded cousin. Get rid of him.
26 Aug 2012, 12:20 pm
@wnbb-464: Vermeulen just a game or 2 away and he should be Bok 8…
That trio of yours is a decent 1….
Maybe Alberts at 7 with Kolisi to play last 30…
Marcelle is being done a disservice by Heyneke by trying to convert him to 6….he is a classy player with loads of potential , but he will never be an opensider…
26 Aug 2012, 12:21 pm
@grant10-468: Nope MOrne Steyn will be 10 for the next 4 years
26 Aug 2012, 12:21 pm
Kobus Kitty. Where are you?
26 Aug 2012, 12:22 pm
Heavens Game. Where are you?
26 Aug 2012, 12:22 pm
465….imagine if we had the wishy washy twakkie muir and gould at the helm now?
It the one great positive at the minute that we have a coaching unit that has experience and will stay consistent as possible. Correct me if wrong but the 2nd test against the english has been the only game so far when they have been able to field the same starting 15? And that first half looked very good to me.
26 Aug 2012, 12:23 pm
anyway…gym here I come …got to work off the frustrations…
thought things would improve post the 3 Stooges and The Fat Boys Club…
If anything it is as bad if not worse….
cant farken believe it man….
outta here
26 Aug 2012, 12:24 pm
Scotland are shite, fact.
26 Aug 2012, 12:24 pm
Morne Steyn should go now!!!The ice has left his veins and he has become a major hindrance to this Bok team now.
26 Aug 2012, 12:25 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-475: LOL
I would love to have seen your posts if PDV had coasched Boks to that shambles last night….
but anyway…geniet u dag Korporal
26 Aug 2012, 12:25 pm
@grant10-476: Go pump the irons Grant , its good for all that stress you harbour
26 Aug 2012, 12:25 pm
Fck me but ANYONE STILL saying that Potgieter is our answer at 7 gotta have outright rocks in their heads.. and these the same people STILL calling for Spies at 8
Steenkamp
Fourie
Cilliers
Elstadt
Etsebeth
Kolisi ( Brussow / Stegman )
Alberts (Stander)
Coetsee (Vermeulen / A. Botha)
would have MURDERED that starting Bok front 8 yesterday.. Murdered them with change to spare… and taken care of the Argies in Mendoza
Stander signed with Munster (or Leinster) as a result of HM putting this Potgieter idiot over his head… Brussow should feel just as aggrieved or FAR worse… even Dewalt Potgieter is FAR and away a better linking and distributing – working loose forward than this one dimensional useless one little touch and its all fall down deficient doos.
26 Aug 2012, 12:25 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-477: Are we any better than Scotland at the moment, I’m not convinced.
26 Aug 2012, 12:26 pm
Didn’t see the game. It was on at a ****** time for me in NZ. Why can’t you Saffas sort that out FFS? I’m picking that the 16-16 result is an indicator of how the Boks will travel this year. They’ll miss their mummies while on the road as usual and then blame the travel schedule as usual even though every team has to travel the same distance.
26 Aug 2012, 12:27 pm
players and committment (not execution) are the only real criteria
The less the gameplan the better, by structure i mean the way teams and especially packs are drilled, like the ABs with their body position techniques and muscle-memory learning in training for piling into the breakdown points en masse, the coaches main role is to select the best and to motivate them to perform and play committed for 80mins, instilling confidence in those who need it and encouraging all to have a go. Trying to straight-jacket players on field is ridiculous and confusing. Correct defensive techniques and systems are fine, but let the players create on attack and encourage them to do so as individuals.
26 Aug 2012, 12:27 pm
@fitz1ella-481: **** we would not have won 1 lineout to start with
26 Aug 2012, 12:28 pm
479…..bladdy hell,where have you been this past 4 years.
Twakkie devilliers did coach us to a shambles with possibly the most talented and already experienced side ever put onto a pitch.
That oke couldnt organize a shagging in a ***** house.
26 Aug 2012, 12:28 pm
@wnbb-478: I agree. M Steyn has lost the plot and his agent should be trying for a Saracens contract, quick smart. That’s all he’s good for now.
26 Aug 2012, 12:29 pm
@Muttonbird-483: It was on at 7am. What’s the problem.
26 Aug 2012, 12:29 pm
yip off for a bit of gym and a splash with ducky..
26 Aug 2012, 12:30 pm
481…not that you care for stats, but potgieter led the bok tackle count yesterday. Rate him or not…he was one of the few that put their hands up yesteray.
26 Aug 2012, 12:32 pm
Do we have the most useless fullback in world rugby,i think so.I cant believe he is still in the team.Quite a few other players going to move on when injured players come back.And M coetzee is no where near Brussouw,clearly evident on todays performance.
26 Aug 2012, 12:32 pm
Can someone please explain the term “ball carrying loosie” to me.
Some people say every player should be able to fetch.
In the same vein, shouldn’t all players be able to carry the ball?
26 Aug 2012, 12:33 pm
Anyway,i slept well knowin that my bully boy lighties drilled the sharkies yesterday and louis fouche will be the next bok flyhalf.
Go heyneke.
And sampie mastriet or was clayton blommetjies, i confuse those 2, is awesome as is young venter,and….ah buggerit, they are all awesome.
26 Aug 2012, 12:34 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-424:
absolutely right.
meyer should draft bakkies and gurthro into the squad asap.
for one we need their the abrasive, no holds (yet very effective) physicality and for another it would send a message to the non performing passangers by giving them a good shock (you’re so bad we dropped you hot).
26 Aug 2012, 12:34 pm
@sharks_lover-485: Etsebeth took about 70% of our line out ball yesterday.. Etsebeth is a 5 lock trying to be converted into a No.4 enforcer… which is Elstadts job..
we would have won as many line out balls as yesterday and most likely the ones we missed also.
@Brigadier Van Zyl-486: Your Heyneke going to BLOW.. watch.. your worst nightmare gonna come to pass.. PdV by FAR more amicable to variety and variation.. only problem is PdV handed ALL the reigns to Smit – Matfield – FdP.. to fck it up by themselves… this poor doos thinks he’s the great f’ng messiah who going to read all his ja broer kuikens the riot act when they don’t perform STRICTLY to his one dimensional brainlessfart.. watch him blow and walk before he gets past go.
26 Aug 2012, 12:34 pm
@garth-488: So it was! I don’t have pay TV, that’s the problem.
26 Aug 2012, 12:36 pm
and considering we have lost bissy i’d say getting guthro in the squad is all the more importat.
26 Aug 2012, 12:36 pm
Do any Jaap fans think that their 2012 campaign is shot without that thug BDP playing?
26 Aug 2012, 12:36 pm
my unbeatable bok team
15 Aplon
14 Aplon
13 Aplon
12 Aplon
11 Aplon
10 Jantjies
9 Aplon
8 Burger
7 Burger
6 Burger
5 Burger
4.Burger
3. Burger
2 Burger
1 Burger
unfuckinbeatable
26 Aug 2012, 12:37 pm
@willievz-492:
i think the only one we really got is Alberts, the Irish got Ferris, the English Brown, the ABs Kaino – they take it up in the heavy traffic and get you over the adv line giving you go-forward – i think spies, kanko, potgieter, coetsee and daniels are ball-runners, which means they cant really operate in heavy traffic or get over the adv line, which is what the ball-carrier does for them, only when its a bit looser, can the ball-running lipozano’s look better – i dont think they are well suited for test rugby, maybe one of them at most in the pack, with a ballcarrier (tho i’d go with 2 ballcarriers if picking two no 5 locks) and a fetcher if worldclass.
26 Aug 2012, 12:38 pm
if Potgieter led the breakdown stats yesterday and was our best contributor to ball retention and collision contesting then no wonder Argies cleaned the floor with these HM one dimensional skop jag ja broer robots..
HM is LOST.. worse than White ever was and that is saying something CHRONIC about where he ought to be.. seeing all the BB Ja Broers are still convinced he’s the heilige messiah..
26 Aug 2012, 12:39 pm
You could always bring back Bees. That would sort the opposition out I suppose. Just tell him they stole his credit card and he’d be all over them. Worth a shot.
26 Aug 2012, 12:39 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-493:
i said fouche is on the bok radar yesterday during the game on the bulls thread.
seriously, people aren’t seeing it because of stupid hangups but that boy’s game has grown incredibly.
definite bok flyhalf and is probably the most physical flyhalf the bulls have had in the last 10 years imo.
26 Aug 2012, 12:41 pm
492…ironically i agree that is why you need a specific phyisical build all most all the time.
By your logic, everyone should be able to take lineout ball as well.
26 Aug 2012, 12:41 pm
@fitz1ella-495: Problem i have is not Etsebeth, infact i thought he had a good game,
Furie is not a good hooker, irrespective of what you say, Bekker is not playing good rugby, plaay Kruger with etsebeth, good lock comebo,
26 Aug 2012, 12:42 pm
@saru1983-499: So the eight Burgers in the pack would gouge their way to victory leaving the opposition eyeless. Who the **** is Janties???
26 Aug 2012, 12:43 pm
@fitz1ella-501:
you dont throw the baby in the bath water skop, what would be the point.
change the whole team? change the whole coaching staff?
no, you identify what is you are doing wrong and you fix it.
26 Aug 2012, 12:43 pm
@Muttonbird-506:
26 Aug 2012, 12:45 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-503: What did Baxxies do in his career apart from bring shame upon the Springbok name?
26 Aug 2012, 12:45 pm
Korporaaltjie,you should not be smoking weed on a Sunday or any other given day in your case.Potgieter,the best player?I only saw him flying into tackles like he was playing beach rugby.Seriously mate,take off that blue-tainted glasses.
26 Aug 2012, 12:46 pm
@Muttonbird-509:
you are such a mutton bird, aren’t you….
26 Aug 2012, 12:46 pm
Etsebeth taking most of the ball is the problem…
26 Aug 2012, 12:48 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-511: Can you terll me. He was a cheapshot merchant of the highest order. Very dim in the head and dangerous to smaller players. Rugby is better with him gone from the game.
26 Aug 2012, 12:49 pm
French got Picamoles and Harrindoqai. Samoans got the Tuailagis. WHite’s picking that steamroller no 8 at the brumbies. The blinsider, the big hitter. Tho nowadays alot of no 8 also picked to do that.
zero finesse, but all about go-forward today, whether you like it or not.
26 Aug 2012, 12:49 pm
510….i didn,t make up the stat thanks.
Where was kolisi yesteray by the way….getting owned by the lions at newlands.
26 Aug 2012, 12:50 pm
@sharks_lover-505: Fourie is best hooker in SA behind Bismark.. they BOTH bring mongrel in spades to the team which was distinctly absent yesterday with NO Brussow, NO Bismark and NO Kolisi present.. ALL the mongrel was GONE.. Fourie and Elstadt and Kolisi in would bring an extra 50% mongrel automatically … CC is NOT their ceiling.. but CC is definitely some of HM’s picks ceiling by what is plainly visible by definition…
All these wanting soft athletic poefie boy hookers.. that what you got.. Strauss, Smit, Burden, Liebenberg (who at least puts some mongrel into his attention – but nowhere near as ferocious and fiery as Fourie)
Sp no mongrel in the ranks yesterday which left for Hougaard, Alberts and Etsebeth to provide all the attrition at the breakdown.. and then some schmucks tell me Potgieter was busiest at the breakdown.. that beggars belief.. Potgieter was absolutely NOWHERE exactly where he’s been since Meyer introduced him as Boks next savior at the coalface…
26 Aug 2012, 12:50 pm
For the boks to draw with Argentina is just deplorable, the issue Saturday was that, the boks were outplayed technically, the bully was bullied, and couldn’t stand up. The gameplan has been questioned before Meyer became bok coach, the boks under pdv from 2009 were playing Meyer rugby, in 2010 it lost its novelty. So the bok fans wanted snore out, well he’s out, and the bok fans said they want the great redeemer, Meyer, well here he is and the boks are going to get what’s coming frequently!
26 Aug 2012, 12:50 pm
514….and i bet if jake white had pierre spies in his squad he,d be picking him at 8.
Go figure
26 Aug 2012, 12:50 pm
I mean that was Baxxies M.O. wasn’t it? To intimidate the smaller player in the opposition. Never picked on someone his own size if I recall correctly. Into God too, wasn’t he?
26 Aug 2012, 12:52 pm
517…was losing to scotland deplorable
26 Aug 2012, 12:54 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-518: Pierre’s piece cannot continue, surely. He’s a one man marketing campaign for steriods and protein drinks and that about it. Clearly not interested in rugby nor the Bokke.
26 Aug 2012, 12:55 pm
@cab-500: How many carries does a ball carrier need to make to perform his job admirably?
And what percentage of his time is used to fulfil other functions, eg support on offense or making tackles on defense?
Just playing 4 or 5 ball carriers in the pack for the sake of having those options is a poor selection philosophy IMO, as they do not carry the ball as often, especially not in a kick-chase gameplan where you play more often without the ball. I’d have two or three primary ball carriers in the pack, and go for a more balanced loose trio with a greater skillset.
This trio should include a player who makes 15+ tackles a game and targets the breakdown to slow down opposition ball. Brussow.
Did you see how the big Potgieter struggled to defend around the fringes of the scrum? He was too slow off the mark.
26 Aug 2012, 12:56 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-518:
maybe tho im not so sure anymore, spies should be doing all those things, he has unmatched physical qualities in terms of sheer explosiveness, but he’s got a winger’s kop, not a crashbang steamrolling ballcarrier. fokmaarvoort.
26 Aug 2012, 12:56 pm
Kolisi, Josh Strauss, Vermeulen, Elstadt, PSdT, Kruger, Stander, A. Botha, Deysel
all better ball carriers and crunch time ball breakers than either of Potgieter, Coetsee, Daniel, Spies, Kankowski…
and Brussow, Stegman, Kolisi, possibly Minnie are better open side options than Coetsee or Daniel
26 Aug 2012, 12:57 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-507: Its pretty obvious to identify that HM is wrong and needs to be changed. He only has one vision on how the game is to be played and it is so basic, its pathetic. The Boks are so limited whilst trying to play to his gameplan. Boks have been so one dimensional for years now, a coaching revolution needs to take place Big Time!
26 Aug 2012, 13:00 pm
@fitz1ella-524: Your totally right. Great potential in South African rugby right now, but with this prat with his tunnel vision in charge it will be another wasted generation.
26 Aug 2012, 13:00 pm
523, i would bet my house that jake would have spies in his starting 15, weather it be 7 or 8 would be the only debate.
26 Aug 2012, 13:00 pm
I see the AB vs Bokke game is at Soweto where the Abs got the famous lost boot victory in 2010. Glad it’s not in Rapetown which I hear is dangerous at night.
26 Aug 2012, 13:01 pm
Who is this muttonbird fckwit……
26 Aug 2012, 13:02 pm
According to Meyer the Boks gameplan is based on extreme physicality.To put it mildly:the Boks got beaten up at their own gameplan.With no plan B to counter the Argentines,Heyneke entertained us with his histrionics in the coaches box.That is no way how a Boks coach should behave in front of an international audience.
26 Aug 2012, 13:03 pm
@willievz-522:
yeah i dont think u should measure it or necessarily over use it, but the fact is test match rugby as u know is tighter than s15 that is tigher than CC, and in fact test rugby has got even tighter with less space with modern defences, so these guys are the now must-haves more than ever, perhaps even more valuable than your flyhalf generals of old. because of their physical and mental abilties they also ideally suited for the big hit in the tackle – Willie O the greatest exponent. in short, they give you go-forward momentum from which all else comes, including the lipozanos and their offloads and the backs.
agree the pack needs balance, you dont need 5 of them but you certainyl need more than one, and you also need fire so as not to be dominated physically or psycholigical, alberts is a quiet clean yster, but you need a bit of the mongrel from elstadt, the only enforcer in SA, he is not a ballcariier, but massive hits on defence, you dont want to be running at either alberts or elstadt. these defensive hits also change momentum, remember Os, the whole game coulkd change, bismark creates momentum, he’s no longer there, we down another tight carrier (and fetcher and mongrel).
26 Aug 2012, 13:04 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-520: what you defusing HM’s pathetic FAIL yesterday to a similar pathetic FAIL by Matfield and PdV when they ALSO played one dimensional one track moronic archaic Bulls Brand rugby in 2010 to Lose to Scotland just as they did yesterday to LOSE to Argentina..?? (yes it was a loss saved by a fluke charge down that by chance saved some immense fck’d up blushes..)
Meyer got only providence and his fairy godmother to thank for Steyns charge down try.. else it was a Bok thrashing by a bunch of no name amateurs
Meyers selections are poor and his game plan is non existent and WORSE than PdV.. this archaic dumbfounded THICK Bulls brand kick chase rugby goes back to the DARK ages of JW and Streauli rugby.. and HM is entrenching it Further into the dark recesses of these players subconscious..
Its a sure bet FAIL.. and he gonna keep on failing if that how he portends to want to play this game.. bot Aussie and NZ will THUMP him…
26 Aug 2012, 13:05 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-529: Oh, hi there. I joined this forum in 2010 when the Bokke were bigging themselves up and I fed off the likes of HG and KK and I’m here to put pressure on SA fans. The Rugby Championship is heating up and the mighty ABs are on their way. You worried?
26 Aug 2012, 13:06 pm
@fitz1ella-516: are you mad? Fourie has a very skeef eye – as in brokeback skeef. With him throwing at the lineouts you can gurantee that the Boks will never win any throws.
26 Aug 2012, 13:09 pm
stats cannot measure momentum,
you can lean on a ruck or you can smash into it and counter-ruck, you can half-tackle many people with other players helpin you or drive an oppo ballcarrier back in the tackle giving your team momentum and a massive psycholigical and moral boost, you can be measured to carry (or run) 100m all on the wing or at 1st reciever or making 10m through hard heavy traffic giving your team momentum when its hardest to get.
26 Aug 2012, 13:11 pm
This is only the beginning. We’ll probably lose 3 from the next 4 RC matches if not all of them, playing like we did last night.
What will Keo be like then???
Well, if Tarzan has the best stats of all the forwards, he will most definitely start again on Saturday.
O VOK!!!
26 Aug 2012, 13:11 pm
the reason for the Bulls and Boks success in their pomp and prime, was always incorrectly attributed to kick-chase, when it fact it was the dominance of their pack (Gurthro, Bakkies, Danie) that laid the platform and later Bismarck and Beast.
26 Aug 2012, 13:13 pm
If White would play Spies in his Bok team then he’s way thicker than even I give him credit for.. ANYONE playing Spies in a bok team is THICKER than Gorgonzola cheese on a pastrami sandwich..
The past 5 years Boks have played Spies, Smith, Burger, Brussow, Kankowski in the back row..
The ONLY times we were successful was when Brussow played at 6.. those were the ONLY games Boks won ANYTIME against NZ or Australia and this ended in 2009
Throughout 2010 and 2011
boks played the following players religiously
Spies, Smith (when not injured), Burger, Kankowski, (and couple games with Flouw or Brussow when not injured)…
Matfield, Botha, Roussouw
Du Plessis / CJ, Smit, Beast / Steenkamp
and boks record throughout this period under these players read
Played NZ 5 – Lost 4
Played Aus 6 – Lost 5
9 losses from 11 starts.. and this don’t count losses to France and Ireland with same personnel at EOYT 2010 either.
Spies is one overrated PASSENGER and ANY coach gonna play Spies as his starting No.8 is going to LOSE.. just like Boks have LOST every time they played him the past few years and counting..
26 Aug 2012, 13:15 pm
you can commit 1 or 2 players half-heartedly and let others enter in slowlyt to free up the ball or pile in en masse to clean out and free up the ball instantly.
these things cannot be measured – but they more important even than scrums and lineouts won.
26 Aug 2012, 13:22 pm
@Transformation-417: Blue Bulls rugby for all
honestly the prospect should be pretty scary for Cheetahs, Lions and Sharks supporters whose teams like to play expansive exciting rugby.
26 Aug 2012, 13:28 pm
@cab-537:
Exactly Cab. It was their domination in the forwards that gave them the opportunity to play the way they want. Whether to kick and chase or to run with the ball.
On the international scene, the Boks will not dominate the opposition up front and therefor won’t be able to enforce their game plan on the match.
I said it last week, the days where the Bok forwards were so much bigger than the opposition, is a thing of the past. Everybody goes to the gym nowadays, drink their supplements etc. So, when you are more or less even amongst the forwards, you need something extra to pull you through.
We don’t have that something extra at the moment and as long as His Meyerness continue on his path, we’re not likely to get it anytime soon.
What does it say about our players’ rugby intelect when they see that the Argies commit 5/6 players to the ruck yet we continue to commit only 2/3 players and get cleaned out every time and turn the ball over?
26 Aug 2012, 13:29 pm
Right now Meyer’s team has got about FOUR international class players with ballas rearing to go
Bismark (injured)
Etsebeth
Alberts
Hougaard
on fringes we have
Beast
Coetsee
F. Steyn
Pietersen
and maybe Daniel off bench perhaps putting their hands up as international contention options
that is not enough fire and adrenalin through the ranks to trouble AB’s in ANY dimension.. HM is going to have to scour his conscience and realize he needs players like Brussow, Stegman, Fourie, Elstadt, Kolisi, Vermeulen and perhaps Kruger, Deysel, Stander, Botha to UP the attrition at the collision and breakdown by at least another 50% than what was sadly lacking yesterday..
and it AIN’T going to be coming from either of Spies or Potgieter.. absolutely never.. no sirree…
at this rate he’s staring a loss to Australia in Perth in the face.. I dunno how he will survive the cataclysm if that comes to pass.. but the way he’s heading Aus gonna take him out in Perth with these numb skulls he’s doting on for his one dimensional archaic non evolved game plan…
26 Aug 2012, 13:30 pm
what didnt we have v argentina?
momentum. nada, zero, zip. alberts and beast not enough, they not enough for the sharks, and they certainly will not be enough for the boks, complement their strengths with players from the cape, and look for some variety from brussow and attacking players outwide.
26 Aug 2012, 13:31 pm
when burger comes back the boks wont need a coach
26 Aug 2012, 13:33 pm
@sharks_lover-421: yep! meyer wants ALL the franchises to play his supreme gameplan!
26 Aug 2012, 13:33 pm
540…the blue bulls rugby scored more tries and finished above those sides on the superlog
Thks
26 Aug 2012, 13:34 pm
all the spies knockers on here should be clear that when he was on steroids he was a very good player breaking tackles and he had great speed.
26 Aug 2012, 13:34 pm
@saru1983-544: Yeah, that’s going to work well. The average Jaap is dim to start with so a decent coach is essential.
26 Aug 2012, 13:35 pm
@nama1-541:
i dont mind if we attack, in fact i would love it if we attack, but meyer is right about one fundamental thing, which is that the collisions need to be won, this is momentum, you cannot win collisions with players like andries strauss, bekker, potgieter, spies and kanko – and we have players better equipped to fetch and win collisions than these players.
Once you have mometum, you can run, you can kick, or you can perform bollemakiesises, makes fkall difference, look at the stormers they concentrates on defense and still came top (they would have won if theyd attacked with the players they had and less injuries to their momentum generators i.e. vermeulen).
26 Aug 2012, 13:36 pm
@saru1983-547: Yes there was that one season in 1492 that he had a decent game. Not much since then though.
26 Aug 2012, 13:37 pm
meyer is a retarded idiot stuck in the 90s.Pdv is a vastly superior manager of players and has an amazing knowledge of modern rugby ask matfield,bakkies and any of thesenior boks.
26 Aug 2012, 13:38 pm
@willievz-522:
the problem with potgieter is his technique when either tackling or carrying the ball or his ruck cleanouts.
its all wrong most times but could perhaps be coached to improve.
in regard his ball carries – his perception of ‘go forward’ is not really go forward as he often receives the ball at pace from a deepish position but then just goes to ground in the first contact situation he makes/runs into. he needs to not only bash the ball up into any contact but also needs to signaficantly go over the advatage line. this is where he fails.
@HongKongSlong-525:
no, i disagree. this will prove to a be course correction for the boks and the coaching staff, in time.
meyer’s been here before, remember. he was demoted to coaching the vc team at the bulls after a string of poor performance with the cc/super team and threatened with possible dismissal. he faced his detractors and demons and pushed on to build the most successful super winning franchise in sa history.
meyer, more than most, knows the bitterness of a hard road traveled.
26 Aug 2012, 13:38 pm
As a New Zealander id rather haver meyer coaching the boks than Pdv
26 Aug 2012, 13:38 pm
Cape Town – One-dimensional, ponderous and fortuitous in their 16-16 away draw with Argentina in the Castle Rugby Championship on Saturday, the Springbok struggle is reflected in no player even creeping up to a figure above 65% on our report card.
Here are the Sport24 Bok ratings from Mendoza … readers’ own feedback welcome!
Zane Kirchner: 5.5
Did his stock chores reasonably, in fairness. But that’s about all you get from him … can’t hold candle to, say, an Israel Dagg for excitement or unpredictability.
Bryan Habana: 6
Tigerish and industrious enough, especially for someone in significant injury doubt in lead-up days. But so few opportunities for “expression”.
Jean de Villiers: 6
Couple of mildly promising mini-breaks, though it’s a pity the captain, due to the game-plan, hardly gets quality ball in the outside centre channel. Needed to communicate more on defence?
Frans Steyn: 6.5
Only his moment of charge-down opportunism spared Boks an embarrassing maiden loss to Pumas. Increasingly influential as game wore on – even if also far from flawless in option-taking.
Lwazi Mvovo: 6
Not the first time in recent years a Bok wing has got chilly out wide through inactivity. Elusive and purposeful on rare occasions he could be.
Morné Steyn: 5.5
Landed his goals … well, almost all of them. But still, crucially, just seems too obvious a handbrake to Bok creativity, plus one of those exasperating Boks to routinely hoist frankly unimaginative, 50-50 high balls.
Francois Hougaard: 5.5
Zzzz … this is getting monotonous. Your scrumhalf being removed from his starting post after roughly an hour in every Test match only tells you how he’s struggling to truly impose himself, doesn’t it?
Willem Alberts: 5
Sorry, just not mobile or consistently busy enough to be a top-tier Test No 8. Must go back to blindside flank, or impact factor. Anyone see Kieran Read’s contrasting majesty for the All Blacks a few hours earlier? Ouch. ‘Nuff said.
Jacques Potgieter: 5.5
Give this guy some credit for one thing: heart. But you expect so much more from the proud treasure trove of Bok loose forwards than mere “physicality”. Frankly, it’s all he brings.
Marcell Coetzee: 5
The youngster seemed a little over-awed (not the only Bok on the day) by Pumas’ intensity and ferocity at the breakdown. Lost a key ball in contact in home-team quarter just before half-time. Most innocuous Test by him yet, though we already know he’s a pretty good ‘un.
Andries Bekker: 5.5
Stinging criticism from Nick Mallett for tackling gremlins, one in lead-up to Argentina’s try, with former Bok coach suggesting he’s too upright and that his back may still be problematic. Did put himself about in general play and banked some lineout ball, but also saw some poaches from under his nose.
Eben Etzebeth: 6
Pumas’ pack tried to niggle the 20-year-old early on, to throw him off stride. Came through stern examination with honour intact, however. Fine learning experience in hostile foreign climes. Some good ball carries in Boks’ rally (well, of sorts) in second half.
Jannie du Plessis: 5
Bok scrum didn’t go backwards to any great degree, but not mightily forward either. Relatively invisible outing by the tighthead until Pat Cilliers took over in 68th minute.
Adriaan Strauss: 5.5
Could have been worse – though this game also demonstrated, alas, what the Boks lose in hardcore, close-quarters combat when Bismarck du Plessis is absent.
Tendai Mtawarira: 5
Seems to be receding, rather than picking up a head of steam, as Bok season progresses. Where are those famous, barnstorming charges?
Substitutes:
Flip van der Merwe: 5
Gave away stupid lineout penalty (duly goaled) virtually the moment he came on for half an hour. No special extra “presence” in second row.
Ruan Pienaar: 5.5
Has been more constructive in earlier injections off bench this year; too easily handed off by a Pumas ball-carrier in one instance.
Keegan Daniel, Pat Cilliers and Tiaan Liebenberg: Too little time to be properly assessed.
26 Aug 2012, 13:40 pm
@saru1983-551: “Pdv is a vastly superior manager of players and has an amazing knowledge of modern rugby ask matfield,bakkies and any of the senior boks.”
True. He went great at the RWC2011 didn’t he?
26 Aug 2012, 13:43 pm
Potgieter and Spies are pretty much same horse for same course.. f’ng NONENTITY of go forward by EITHER of those overrated bone crunching boneheads
seriously if Meyer is so befuddled and confused that this is where he is going to get his go forward from, from either of Spies or Potgieter.. then I pity Meyer because the lesson is going to come down on him so hard he will not get up from the onslaught of the AB avalanche.. 49-0 will be like chicken feed in comparison.
26 Aug 2012, 13:43 pm
@Muttonbird-548: the problem here is that the average coach is a jaap as well. 2 idiots together are dumber not smarter
26 Aug 2012, 13:45 pm
@Muttonbird-555: no apparently he didnt coach the team it was the senior players
26 Aug 2012, 13:45 pm
@fitz1ella-556:
yes his go forward is not good enough and i’m also not happy with the way he effects his tackles on defence, but this can be coached to correction.
26 Aug 2012, 13:46 pm
Who,s to say that meyer will not bring brussouw into the squad….he did say that this backrow selection was horses for courses
Albeit, brussouw is now injured as i understand which is a concern in itself because he does not seem to last more than 2 games in a row uninjured these days
26 Aug 2012, 13:48 pm
besides PdV won a british lions series
a tri nation
he beat the all blacks in nz twice
what thefuckhas meyer won
he lost against argentina and yes its counted as a loss draws against argentina are unacceptable
26 Aug 2012, 13:48 pm
@wnbb-554: those ratings suck, Hougaard a 5.5? the three Stormers players getting joint highest mark?
26 Aug 2012, 13:48 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-552:
The problem with Potgieter is that he is kak.
26 Aug 2012, 13:49 pm
fourie would solve a great deal of the fetcher issues automatically even with brussow out and he brings the abrasivness that was missed yesterday.
26 Aug 2012, 13:50 pm
he will lose thrice more twice against the masters of rugby and once against australia.
26 Aug 2012, 13:51 pm
but no apparently he cannot throw, despite the stormers going unbeaten in the first half of the season when he threw at hooker.
26 Aug 2012, 13:52 pm
Come on cab…fourie was part of a province pack that got beat up yesterday including kolisi and vermuelen and superrugby frontrow
26 Aug 2012, 13:53 pm
@nama1-563: agreed
26 Aug 2012, 13:57 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-567: vermeulen and fourie did not get beat up.Vermeulen is unfit and only had 20 min in him and already better than spies. fourie was playing against the lions on his own the other six were missing in action
26 Aug 2012, 13:57 pm
@nama1-563:
yes nama, the world is that simple.
26 Aug 2012, 13:57 pm
So glad this did not happen while PdV was coach.
At least now it is only HM who gets blamed.
If it was PdV it would’ve been him, SARU,Hoskins, all them good Coloured folks, the ANC, Zuma, Julius, BEE, AA, etc, etc, etc…
26 Aug 2012, 13:58 pm
@nama1-563: this… this is the absolute truth
26 Aug 2012, 14:01 pm
@cab-564:
why post points which have no chance at all of ever becoming reality? its a pointless academic debate really, to tout players who in all likelyhood will never be selected for the boks in the positions you tout.
26 Aug 2012, 14:02 pm
well, to be fair it is highly, highly unlikely.
26 Aug 2012, 14:03 pm
@nama1-571:
3 wins and 2 draws nama
no losses.
26 Aug 2012, 14:04 pm
anyone who put money on the boks drawing is sitting pretty.
odds must have been good.
26 Aug 2012, 14:05 pm
@saru1983-565:
That is definitely on the cards.
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-570:
It can be.
Sometimes we make things more complicated for ourselves. Selecting Potgieter for the Bok team, is one such example.
26 Aug 2012, 14:08 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-575:
A draw against England and the Argies is a loss, you thought the Bokke would pound the Argies what went wrong?
26 Aug 2012, 14:10 pm
i will watch the game again with a more detached viewpoint.
my feeling s there was a helluva lot of infringing at the breakdowns which were not being blown by the ref.
there certainly were times when i thought a sterner warning and threat of a card was warranted yesterday.
what the ponit of rules otherwise.
thats whay its a game.
really hate what the kiwis and to a lesser extent pocock have brought into the game.
26 Aug 2012, 14:11 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-575:
I’m talking about drawing against the Argies.
Would you have taken it in your stride as you seem to be doing now, if PdV was the coach? A team that we have beaten 14/14 times on previous occasions.
3/5 playing against England at home (3 times) Argintina (h & a) is no great record, boet.
You know that Meyer’s winning record away from home is 0%?
It is very unlikely that it will change over the course of the next two weeks.
Sad but true.
26 Aug 2012, 14:12 pm
@nama1-577:
coaching is such a science when conducted from the comfort of a couch isn’t it.
@NZINCHINA-578:
i’m not in the mood for trolling china.
and no, the boks have not lost a game yet.
26 Aug 2012, 14:14 pm
Going forward this team could beat the AB’s at home:
1.) Beast (Sho but he must step up!)
2.) Bismark (Play Chilli if injured not bloody Strauss)
3.) Cilliers
4.) Eben (Must carry less, hit more rucks!)
5.) Kruger
6.) Brussouw
7.) Alberts
8.) Kankow (If available) otherwise Vermullet
9.) Hougaard (Was great yesterday people here are on crack!)
10.) Elton (GIVE THIS BOY A CHANCE!)
11.) Habana
12.) Steyn
13.) Pieterson (See Stormers Semi)
14.) Mvovo
15.) Aplon (until Taute or Coetzee string some performances together)
Gives us some serious bulk in the midfield and Aplon is no defensive liability.
Jannie Dup’s time has come, M.Steyn’s kicking is clearly not as good as it was so replace him. Janjties is the most all round 10 we have.
Bekker is KAK, JdV is average (I’m a WP fan), Coetzee is green, Alberts is no 8 and Brussouw is worldclass. Kirchner is a stop gap as well.
26 Aug 2012, 14:16 pm
@nama1-580:
in my stride?
you clearly were not around after the game las night to hear what i had to say then.
the srew-up is already srewwed. now is the time to calculate the solutions to problems (rationally) and not just list the problems.
26 Aug 2012, 14:23 pm
There are some serious problems in this outfit, and it appears that there is no relief on the horizon. There are no senior players to save the day and the coach clearly has a one-track vision and no way out of the tunnel.
Other than injury where has he picked wrong:
15 Zane Kirchner
14 Bryan Habana (he is a left wing)
13 Jean de Villiers
10 Morné Steyn
9 François Hougaard
8 Willem Alberts (not the right position at test level)
7 Jacques Potgieter
5 Andries Bekker
4 Eben Etzebeth
Tiaan Liebenberg
JJ Engelbrecht
Until he changes 9 and 10 and finds someone at openside, he is in all sorts of trouble. And take off the blue underpants.
And stop being so neurotic, ADD and superstitious… anyone know his weird little quirks?
26 Aug 2012, 14:24 pm
@Bagel-582:
bismarck wil not play for the rest of the year.
i would bring back bakkies (eben is not a 4 lock yet but he will get there) and gurthro (he is in incredible form and singlehandedly destryed the toulon scrum in the top14 final).
agreed on kruger.
disagree on kankowski.
would continue with morne (otherwise goosen or elton).
would play lambie ahead of aplon (but there are other contenders too).
26 Aug 2012, 14:27 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-583:
OK, fair enough.
What, in your opinion, is the problems that HM is faced with and what can be done to rectify it?
I’ll start. Let’s list some problems first before moving on to the solutions.
1. Game plan
2. Team selection
26 Aug 2012, 14:27 pm
Halleluja. Fate is great. I love the Boks and hurt when they don’t do well. I will be honest though, I am currently conflicted. I hate the level of regression but also embrace it. Its time SA rugby needs some rehabilitation in. The laager mentality that persists till this day. I have never rated HM but prejudice against Pdv made him a martyr. I was happy when Pdv reign ended as ppl used scotch earth policy in criticizing and discrediting him. No matter how divisive it got ,we stopped being 1 country. We even allowed Aussies/NZ elements come in and insult him and some cheered. It became too negative and I lost interest in rugby as I realised that this rainbow nation is a pipe dream. I cheered when HM took over as tas for once a perceived God of coaching will be rated on facts and not a romanticized idea. Here it is! I don’t want him to fail but at least there is no hiding anymore. Unfortunately his challenges (there will be many) will clean Pdvs legacy. I hope all racist rugby supporters and bloggers will eventually realise that this game has evolved and for us to survive we need inputs and creativity from all walks of life in this potentially great nation of ours. From the creative geniouses from Cpt to EC to the Genetic Freaks up north. Its not reserved for a single group. At least HM challenges will prove that. Provincialsm is another issue for another day. Good luck HM but its gonna be a very embarrassing and bumpy rd. I for one am for it. It’ll be good for this country and there is no hiding anymore. Is this the Best Coach we have been drummed up to believe all these years? Can’t wait to meet the ABs and Aussies and hope we haven’t already seen the best of the Boks.
26 Aug 2012, 14:27 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-581:
trolling do you mean reality, you didn’t win because you’re not good enough the same reason every time you don’t win, Meyer ain’t no messiah my friend
26 Aug 2012, 14:33 pm
@goyougoodthing2-584:
It does not help either when you sub your 2nd most senior player who did save the team in the past when they were in tight situations.
Not saying that he would’ve done it last night but just going by your point on senior players.
26 Aug 2012, 14:34 pm
No science too coaching – you gotta know the game, pick the right players, motivate them and handle imtense pressure.
26 Aug 2012, 14:35 pm
@NZINCHINA-588:
not entirely true, my friend.
in instances when we play the ab’s its mostly due to cheating by the ab’s which leads to us losing. yesterday, although we did not win neither did we lose, was a cse of us playing poorly for the most part.
there was a lot of infringing at the breakdowns by the argies and i cant say how much of this is due to them having a poor technical appreciation of the games rules and how much is due to kiwi advice.
meyer was employed to be a coach… not a messiah…
26 Aug 2012, 14:35 pm
@nama1-589: You talking Habana? I have to agree with you.
26 Aug 2012, 14:38 pm
@nama1-586:
yes, the game plan selected and to an extent the failure to adapt it but more importantly the excecution of the plan being very poor, in the field.
selections for the most part are/were horses for courses in view of injuries.
certainlly though i think meyer should consider foreign based players more seriously.
26 Aug 2012, 14:38 pm
There is an article in the Tribune today by ex referee, Michael Katzenellenbogen, in which he states that McCaw is a cheat and the referees, including Nigel Owens yesterday, allow this knowingly.
This is from a referee, a d00s in general, but he makes good points – has anyone else read it?
26 Aug 2012, 14:41 pm
@nama1-586:
i really do not think this bok squad will play this poorly in most of their games for the rest of the year. this was a complete shocker.
26 Aug 2012, 14:42 pm
@goyougoodthing2-594:
no i have not read it but that would not be breaking news.
we all know this.
26 Aug 2012, 14:45 pm
@goyougoodthing2-592:
Yes.
He should’ve kept him on and rather subbed Mvovo if he was so adament to play Hougie at wing. Just wonder what message he is sending to Habana when he subs him with his no.1 scrum half.
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-593:
Who of the foreign based players do you have in mind?
FdP? declared himself unavailable.
Jaques Fourie? declared himself unavailable.
Bakkies? Overweight and unfit.
26 Aug 2012, 14:51 pm
@nama1-597:
two certanties are:
bakkies, has lost a lot of weight and looks good. is listed as 118kg last i checked. i would def play him for 60min.
guthro, who had a monster of a game in the top14 final.
26 Aug 2012, 14:52 pm
@nama1-597: I understand your thinking. He has the wrong scrummie to begin with and he is playing Habana on the wrong wing.
Not even bringing Lambie on for a minute speaks volumes too – I mean he had nothing to lose. ( personally think Lambie is a 15 more than a 10 but whatever).
26 Aug 2012, 14:52 pm
@nama1-597:
in fact i listed these two players before the squad was annouced and said meyer should consider them.
26 Aug 2012, 14:53 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-593:
So, some of the problems that Meyer has:
1. Game plan
2. Team selection
3. Failure to adapt
4. Excecution of the plan
5. Leadership on the field
So, what is the possible solutions to these problems?
26 Aug 2012, 14:57 pm
@nama1-601: Have to agree again.
JDV should not be Captain because he is not the best 13… quite simple.
Bekker does not step up at this level, I think his back really is farked.
MSteyn plays the game he knows, this is not his fault, there are any number of 10s in SA, from Lambie on the bench through Elton etc etc etc.
He has the wrong 9, again there are loads of them.
Gameplan is very very very poor.
26 Aug 2012, 15:04 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-591:
it would never be a case of the other side playing better, only you playing badly or the ref cheating unfounded arrogance my friend you dont have the side for that kind of attitude
26 Aug 2012, 15:05 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-494: Meyer has made poor use of his NH players, Bakkies was in good form yesterday.
26 Aug 2012, 15:07 pm
The boks got 2 weeks to sort out their game plan before the Aus test, because IMO we don’t have one. I hope Rassie gets involved! We also need a proper backline coach!
26 Aug 2012, 15:09 pm
@RainbowBanana-605: you do have a gameplan but it is from 1963
26 Aug 2012, 15:11 pm
@nama1-601:
1. yes, vary the game plan a bit (succesfully though, as this what they try to do i’m sure).
2. perhaps 1 or 2 bold selection changes (such as goosen or fouche at 10 or maybe new winger of midfielder as i think the pack really just needs to front thats all).
3. adaptation is factored in at number 1.
4. execution, execution, execution, execution in all its aspects whether it be a plan or a pass. coaches need to drill the shitt out of the guys this week and next.
5. leadership, we can agree was poor so its just about talknig situations through and stressing to jean the need to think and act more measured. declining the kick at posts and opting for the lineout was one telling moment for me, and that was jeans fault.
26 Aug 2012, 15:14 pm
Gyg2
the greatest cheat that has ever played the game – only barenesey is quick enough to ping him. And look what tge AB faithful did to villify the poor young man’s career..
26 Aug 2012, 15:15 pm
@nama1-601:
…add to the problems:
6. Defense (1st time tackling was poor last night)
7. Break downs (if Arg can win our ball so easily, think what will happen against Aus/NZ)
@goyougoodthing2-602:
Who else is there with the leadership capabilities as well as being the best in his position. We have a clear lack of leadership at the moment.
It seems as if HM is grooming Bissie to captain the Boks next year. With him you may find that his rugby nous is not up to scratch but that is still in the future, I guess.
26 Aug 2012, 15:15 pm
@nama1-601:
i think the biggest shortcoming which hampers the boks is not getting the squad together for longer periods of time ahead of tests.
we need to pull them out of their unions and super/cc comp if heynenke deems it necessary and put them into camp.
26 Aug 2012, 15:17 pm
Are arses!
And you say you are the supporters of the national team? You appear to be more like the stage performers of a Jerry Springer show as is the coach and his pale assistants.
Just visualise this street-girl bitchingpalooza go well into the first week into September and by the 8th Sept. the very first Rugby Championship will all but have its first owner already.
By Sept. 15 that new ownership of the first RC Cup will be confirmed emphatically and the tourney will be dead as a rugby spectacle.
26 Aug 2012, 15:18 pm
I’m hearing noises from keo and kie on here that suggest meyer is going to revert back to bakkies and gurthro – who are both great players and would strengthen the squad but we need to be developing the next no 4 lock like elstadt – so I hope he don’t smack the panic button just yet and if he does pick these players they are used off the bench in a supporting role
26 Aug 2012, 15:21 pm
@Big Hit-606: No way! The boks use to run with the ball in the 60’s!
26 Aug 2012, 15:21 pm
@NZINCHINA-603:
no, in this instance its just a case of stating the truth.
you team is dirty but this isn’t my fault, i’m only stating it.
deal with it.
@Big Hit-604:
yip agreed.
he played a full 80
and did you notice they have a gunther playing at 6 haha
26 Aug 2012, 15:23 pm
Only arses where on display in the game yesterday. We sure saw our own arses – how many players tge argies got?
Meyer then made an arse by criticing his own players, the very ones he selected, it’s pretty much the cardinal sin.
Nope that was horrific.
26 Aug 2012, 15:25 pm
@nama1-609:
breakdowns are a mess
blame the refs and the kiwis
26 Aug 2012, 15:26 pm
@cab-615:
the boks got told off nicely imo.
i hope he was much uglier in the change rooms.
26 Aug 2012, 15:27 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-617:
boks got told off nicely = bok got told off too nicely
26 Aug 2012, 15:27 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-614:
yip and your team just isnt good enough but that was pretty obvious after the England series, if the Aussies take you in Perth Meyer will be probably be axed, who’s next Mallet?
26 Aug 2012, 15:29 pm
@cab-608: they tried cabs, but Barnesy is made of sterner stuff than kiwis and remains on the elite ref panel. Bryce by contrast is gone from test rugby and is said by Lyndon Bray to be unlikely to ever return (hallelujah!)
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-614: lol yeah, he looks like the french tarzan
26 Aug 2012, 15:29 pm
Not the players fault, it’s his – he picked them – they win and lose as a team – the buck stops with him – that’s why he gets the bigbucks with the whole entourage of assistants that do not take the field.
He has to suck it up – blame the players at your peril.
26 Aug 2012, 15:32 pm
620 good for him BH – withstood enormous pressure in that 1/4 final in Wales – 3 cheers 4 barnesey.
26 Aug 2012, 15:33 pm
@NZINCHINA-619:
glad you agree on your team being dirty. it makes you look stupid when you argue against the point.
boks are not good enough by a long shot. however, meyer will not be axed, he is on a 4 year contract (with clauses i’m sure) but i trust he will improve and if not he will get the first year at least before the big heads come down on him harder.
i was never against mallet coaching the boks again and i think he should be gotten involved in some backroom capacity perhaps.
26 Aug 2012, 15:33 pm
@nama1-601:
And perhaps a magic from Fran Styen twice in a Test would help too?
26 Aug 2012, 15:33 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-607:
See, rugby not such a science after all. Easy to see the problems and come up with possible solutions. Even from your the comfort of your couch. The challenge is to put it into practice of course.
The problem of course is that in HM we have somebody who will want to prove to the rugby public that he in fact is right and the rest of us are wrong. He will therefor continue on his path of self destruction and despair.
He will not be unique in doing that though:
Carel Dup refused to listen when he was told we need a goal kicker.
Mallet had the Bob/Teichman issue
JW had De Wet Barry and Marius Joubert
PdV had John Smit.
So, one can only hope that HM has learned from the mistakes of these coaches and changes his thinking before it is too late?
26 Aug 2012, 15:34 pm
@Big Hit-620:
as long as he doesnt ref us at the next WC no problem, he should never have been allowed to ref NZ with NZ seeded to play England in the semi’s, he was hard on the sauce back in those days perhaps he’s given that up now
26 Aug 2012, 15:39 pm
@nama1-625:
agreed more or less.
i think we can also agree that we have very different perceptions of heyneke meyer as a person.
26 Aug 2012, 15:41 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-623:
we play hard but fair Houston, Meyer won’t see out his 4 years they’ll be calling for his head in a few weeks time its started already
26 Aug 2012, 15:42 pm
@Hondo-624:
Last night was more a case of a big mistake by the Argie full back than “magic” by Fat Frans. He sure was lucky.
Give me your objective rating of his game last night.
@nama1-625:
Jake White at least listened and changed course culminating in a RWC title.
26 Aug 2012, 15:43 pm
@nama1-625:
You forget that Marius scored his hatrick for the Boks. Sure, he lost form by being overplayed but there was more to it than that I reckon. When Jake dropped the two of them he said that “they’d let him down”. I think that they couldn’t (wouldn’t) buy into his defensive backline emphasis.
26 Aug 2012, 15:44 pm
Meyer looks v nervous and he is obviously trying exceptionally hard and took last night personally, so I feel for him but this is what comes with the territory and he should know that better than anyone – probably ages you about 5 years – these okes should probably speak to a head quack or iets to deal with it – probably need that aspect more than the players who have to draw from the coach. Tell you who they have, not a reserve arse massager, but a PR oke who explains how they handle it – but guess that takes all the passion out of it cos u wanna see the coaches reaction.
26 Aug 2012, 15:45 pm
@NZINCHINA-628:
no you dont china, no you dont.
but you know this.
26 Aug 2012, 15:46 pm
@nama1-625: Meyer doesn’t know any other way, he coached Leicester Tigers the same way he coached the Bulls, he even brought Derick Hougaard to Welford Road.
The only way he can make his tenure with the Boks work is to implement his gameplan, it’s all he knows – that means picking the best forwards to implement it and he hasn’t been doing that.
@NZINCHINA-626: ‘he should never have been allowed to ref NZ with NZ seeded to play England in the semi’s’
true, but that was down to Paddy O.
26 Aug 2012, 15:46 pm
@cab-631:
he’s set a dangerous precedent now though by telling his players they let the nation down, what does he tell them if they lose the next 4 games he’s shot his bolt already
26 Aug 2012, 15:50 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-632:
you didn’t watch the NZ game last night because you don’t watch AB games and Super rugby anymore but if you had have watched it you would have seen a well oiled machine playing with the laws of the game, bad last second finishing stop it from becoming a bloodbath, we’ll save that for you in Dunedin
26 Aug 2012, 15:51 pm
634 NZ
yeah u exactly right – worst thing u can do as a coach – lose the players trust and you pretty much finito no matter how good u may be technically. One thing PdV was a legend at … Eye-gouging what?! this us not a game for tutus – granted he was a great character.
26 Aug 2012, 15:51 pm
“within”
26 Aug 2012, 15:51 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-627:
I don’t care so much about HM as a person. I’m sure he is a !God fearing, family orientated man.
It is about HM as the Bok coach that I worry. Up to know, he has not impress me.
75% win record at home
0% win record away
…and he has only played England, ranked 4th? and Arg, ranked 8th, so far.
26 Aug 2012, 15:53 pm
@cab-636:
ha love or hate PDV he stood by his players, Meyer has dressed down his players like school girls in front of the world rugby media bad bad move
26 Aug 2012, 15:55 pm
Are delusional and disenchanted conservatives and not only in rugby!
When a national team with a 10 man game plan loses the forwards are always the cardinal problem.There is no serious experience and genuine leadership in that pack of misfits in everyone of the 3 forward units. They are rudderless and without any well-found purpose when taken on at that deficient game plan by bigger, more brutal pupils; the masters have been out-mastered and a palace revolution effected by the pupils.
What happened to the ahead-of-their-time 20yr.olds of the golden-era-to-be like Etsebeth(is it just Beth), Coetsee, Kolisi, Elstadt(and any you wish to name) when confronted by the ‘hardebaarde’ of the pampas?
As for that big,big sissy Bekker(‘sy hare is ook nou gestruik’) does he now understand what happens to a back when 69 is tried on a park bench by a beanpole?
Laughing stock all is what you are and the laughter is loud and heard all the way downunder.
26 Aug 2012, 15:58 pm
@NZINCHINA-634:
…and yet, some of his disciples are appalled at Nick Mallet and Ashwin Willemse for criticising the players (and Meyer) for the kak they dished up last night.
Not so with HM’s remarks about the players. They feel he was too soft with them. See p.618
26 Aug 2012, 15:59 pm
@NZINCHINA-635:
i will reserve my judgements on whether nz plays any less dirty than they have for so long until the bok games. its the two times i will watch your team, only cos its the boks.
until then i can only go on the past.
out of interest, what do you think has occured for them to actually have played a game cleanly, as you claim? why now and why that game? is it a ploy in order to buy time for cheating later perhaps? or were they just adapting to a ref who is ‘unusually’ stricter with regard to seeing the rules being followed, as they should?
26 Aug 2012, 15:59 pm
@nama1-638:
no, i meant your perceptions of him as a coaching person.
26 Aug 2012, 15:59 pm
ET
is that u oldboy? How goes the doggypaddle?
Meyer gotta weather the storm, pick himself up and address the problems – still early days.
26 Aug 2012, 16:00 pm
@NZINCHINA-637:
hahaha
irony much
26 Aug 2012, 16:02 pm
@Mostofyou-640:
“…does he now understand what happens to a back when 69 is tried on a park bench by a beanpole?”
Funny…funny… funny.
26 Aug 2012, 16:13 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-643:
My perceptions of him as a coaching person:
1. He is stuck in the past. (Rugby has moved on.)
2. He is one dimentional.
3. He has no creativity.
4. He does a lot of double talk.
5. He is not willing to take responsibility for failures. (Blaming the players.)
6. He has SARU in his pocket (at this stage)
7. He believes bigger is better
8. He loves rugby.
9. He is a disciplinarian.
10. He had some success as a coach at provincial level.
I guess you’ll have a different view but that’s OK.
26 Aug 2012, 16:15 pm
@nama1-647:
thats right, i do
on the up side, if he wins we’ll both be happy
26 Aug 2012, 16:16 pm
BRING BACK BAKKIES!
BRING BACK BAKKIES!
BRING BACK BAKKIES!
BRING BACK BAKKIES!
BRING BACK BAKKIES!
BRING BACK BAKKIES!
26 Aug 2012, 16:18 pm
@cab-636: P Divvy protected and supported his players to the ends of the earth and back, amidst international and local scorn. I admired him hugely for that. In the same way Graham Henry took a lot of flack for his love children, Piri and co
Since Meyer’s appointmen all he has done is the following: Publically said he wants Matfield and du Preez (which means he never wanted Hougaard, Bekker or Kruger in any event…) Appointed a captain after everyone else said no, and then told said captain it’s only temporary.
He has also indirectly insulted Brussow, Aplon, de Jongh, Kolisi, Lambie and a few others, by letting them know in no uncertain terms that he really doesn’t rate them. He picked Keegan, dropped Keegan in a very ****** manned by saying ‘we need Potgieter’s brute force’ because you, Keegan are too weak.
He subbed Habana (mistake…) and if I’m not mistaken, I’m sure I saw a ‘fuckyou’ leaving Habana’s mouth as he was subbed.
Even with the first squad announcement, there were mutterings about players who had been told 3 weeks prior to that they were in, whilst players who thought they may be in with a shot (Brussow, de Jongh and co)only realised they were left out at the announcement.
He told all SA players they have a fair chance, and that he wil select on form – he basically lied to them did he not?
He sees Lambie as a 15, but Lousbcher says he is a 10, when the only thing obvious, is that neither of them rate Lambie enough to even give him 5 minutes in either position.
It was easy in Pretoria…..everyone idolised him (and still does). Players at the time bought into his psychological mumbo jumbo and other philosophies. The Poms he tried to coach – DIDN’T.
And it doesn’t seem as though the Boks are either.
He has yet to take responsibility for ONE aspect of the Boks poor play, preferring to heap scorn on his players – who are there because HE chose them to play his KAK KAK KAK brand of rugby.
This Bok camp can’t be a happy one, as his ‘almost Straueli like arrogance and harden players up attitude’ will not work in the way it did with the Bulls.
He was a one season wonder in Pta, nothing more.
I don’t believe we have the international playing depth the Kiwi’s have, but I do believe a well coached Bok team, with a varied gameplan DO have the ability to beat them.
26 Aug 2012, 16:22 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-649: BRING BACK DIVVY!
26 Aug 2012, 16:24 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-650:
A good synopsis of Meyer in his short stint as Bok coach.
26 Aug 2012, 16:25 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-650:
honestly,
‘one season wonder’ is just a ridiculous thing to say. its so far from the truth.
26 Aug 2012, 16:27 pm
I think meyer is better then that but ppl do wierd **** under intense pressure and he’s selections are poor – it must be a moerse baptism of fire being Bok coach, completely different to any other in world rugby, only AB coach comes close and they don’t have politics, race, and provinicual **** to vaguely rival SA – they also win alot more which is pretty handy – look at pics of White and PdV before and after – they go thru the ringer but tough cookie and titty – it’s a huge honour
26 Aug 2012, 16:27 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-650:
@trupisero-651:
@nama1-652:
you people are like the jews
selling jeezuz
26 Aug 2012, 16:29 pm
But bakkies ***** was a Jew?
26 Aug 2012, 16:30 pm
@cab-654:
yip
thats pretty much it, the worst job you could ever want
but is an honour to get it.
26 Aug 2012, 16:33 pm
@nama1-652: I hope this stint is veryfuckingshort.
There won’t be a player in SA who trusts thefucker by November. (Already happening)
He supposedly prides himself in his ‘psychological’ warfare….but I heard him on tv giving an example of how he has motivated teams in the past……..I laughed out loud.
Dorothy is not in Kansas anymore, and she is travelling the world without a passport
I have never wanted him near the Bok team, not even back in his ‘one season
heyday, but was prepared to believe some of the smack he spoke when he was appointed, and reserve judgement. That lasted about 5 minutes….until he expertly informed us, that Brussow is not in his plans, but that Jaques Potgieter is
26 Aug 2012, 16:33 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-655: hahahaha….at the current rate HM is going to be a no season wonder as international coach.
Wonder how Tac’s 5 step plan holding up with stage 1 reduced to stage 1/2. Whilst HM did achieve great success as a domestic coach, that’s maybe where he should have stayed. Maybe he’s our version of Deans.
26 Aug 2012, 16:33 pm
@cab-656:
but you get my point.
they all seem quick and happy to condemn the guy who is very likely their saviour.
how quickly they forget the hell from whence they came….
26 Aug 2012, 16:34 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-653: I am waiting for someone to come out fighting to defend him
26 Aug 2012, 16:38 pm
@trupisero-659:
perhaps he is, perhaps he is.
but as the stones song goes,
and now’s the time to sing it:
‘time is on my side, yes it is… time is on my side, yes it is…’
26 Aug 2012, 16:39 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-661: Operation Hummingbird is being plotted…..
26 Aug 2012, 16:39 pm
The main problem is the game plan or rather a lack of plan B. Clearly when plan A is not working ie dominate up front physically then subdue and penetrate, they didn’t have a clue what else to do. Its almost like they gave up. At test level there will be times (especially way from home) when stand up physically and you have to have a plan B which the Boks clearly did not have yesterday. What is even more worrying is that im sure the coaching staff will not address this but rather say it a lack f execution of plan A. Surely our rugby team can learn a thing two from the proteas….where they too were all about Execution over Innovation until Kirsten came along and freed them of this fear of failure when backing their individualism. Its a clear metal shift that needs to be made. Im not criticizing HM game plan……I mean its an effective one when executed properly…..what I am criticizing is the lack of plan B or any sort of innovation when plan A is not working…..which by half time was clearly evident. Leaders within the team should stand up and take some responsibility and make decisions on the field which the circumstances dictate.
26 Aug 2012, 16:39 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-661:
heyneke meyer does not need defenders.
besides, your claims are simply untrue.
26 Aug 2012, 16:42 pm
@Mustard-664:
believe me, they will have matured beyond their rugby years from yesterdays experience. that ability will grown inthem as a unit.
26 Aug 2012, 16:42 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-650: Well said.
26 Aug 2012, 16:45 pm
I too do not agree with certain selections HM has made, however, I do understand that that a coach will make selections that will suite his game plan. And that’s why i will give HM the benefit of the doubt. But if something is clearly not working it must surely be addressed. A week is a long time in International rugby and the nice thing is he has a chance to turn things around against Australia (who are themselves in a bit of trouble).
26 Aug 2012, 16:48 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-662:
Please allow me to introduce myself
I’m a man of kick and chase
I’ts been around for a long, long year
Stole many a mans soul and faith
And I was round when Helium Piet
Had his moment of doubt and pain
Made damn sure that Smitty played
Washed his hands and sealed the Boks’ fate
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name
But why’s the plan puzzling you?
Is the nature of my game
I stuck around Petoorsdorp
and I never saw it was a time for a change
Killed the game and its fetchers
The fans screamed in vain
I rode a tank
Held a head Coach rank
When the blitzkrieg raged
And the bodies stank
26 Aug 2012, 16:50 pm
Perhaps the Greatest is available as a consultant if they ask v nicely.
26 Aug 2012, 16:50 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-666: lets hope so. The Sa rugby public is one of the most unforgiving and if a performance like yesterday would repeat itself HM would soon find himself under so much pressure the way Divvy did in his final 2 years. With the Bulls he had time to develop them into a well oiled machine but unfortunately for him he wont have that luxury with the Boks. To me its a matter of how quickly he can adapt and manage to grind wins while at the same time subtly introducing his way of thinking…..im not saying its the correct one….but we have to give him the benefit of doubt at this stage and back him.
26 Aug 2012, 16:53 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-665: You tell me that a fellow like Brussow, or Hougaard for that matter will EVER feel that they are GOOD enough for this man? Hougaard has bent himself like a pretzel TRYING to be what Meyer wants: Fourie du Preez, to the detriment of his all round game and confidence. Hougie was having a fabulous S15 at 9 (playing it his own way..), until Meyer made it public that he wanted Fourie du Preez at 9 for the Boks. BOOM: the kid went wonky as hell, to the point that he is now a wing or nothing.
Go and watch the first games of the S15 this year, check the dates…..then watch the other games…..
Marcell Coetzee: talented kid, being forced to look woeful and lost as a ‘hybrid’ 6. He is notafucking6 and will never be one. What happens? Like last night, he questions his own talent and relevance in the team
Lambie:?????? Why is he there..
Bekker: I am not a fan, and never have been….but I feel for the way both he and Juandre K are constantly being compared to the lock Meyer was desperate to have, and that only an IRB ruling stopped from happening. Confidence? Pffffffffffft.
And I can go on: Daniel, Kolisi, Aplon etc etc.
I don’t like the way he goes about his business (I might not have minded as much about his lack of decency with his players, if he actually managed to justify this with GOOD SHOWINGS on the field…)
26 Aug 2012, 16:57 pm
I warned some here this okie wasn’t going to see out his tenure.. he gonna blow before he even gets past go.
Aussie whack him in Perth and I reckon its tickets
Meyer is not mature enough for this job.. he smacks like a spoiled kid who wanna get his own way and chucks his toys when he don’t.
His frantic antics in the coaches box look like a psycho going through menopause waiting for the jukebox to explode.
If he blew his top at JdV and the players then he’s blown his last hope of salvation. He picked them and set the game plan, and his reactions portray a dude who is way down on self esteem and control.
Hoskins going to have to do a double take on exactly which coach was hired for purely rugby reasons and which one wasn’t…
They all got the appointments the wrong way round.. PdV needed a team which wasn’t set in its ways.. and Meyer needed one which was..
PdV got the 2007 groot bok lucky packet version and Meyer the 2011 model.. should have been the other way around and we might have gotten some results.
As for the little tête-à-tête in the SS studio after the game, was pretty clear what Mallet and Willemse thought, while Naas tried a game show at saving some protocol, while Mallet let rip as the fundi who suddenly wants in on the job.
26 Aug 2012, 16:58 pm
@trupisero-669:
I’m not sure whether to laugh at your ‘ode’ to Meyer, or cry because it’s true…..
26 Aug 2012, 16:58 pm
@trupisero-669:
classic
i’m gonna save that for posterity
26 Aug 2012, 17:01 pm
@Mustard-671:
absolutely, agree.
thankfully we’ve got a weakened australia up next (wiill pocock be back?).
26 Aug 2012, 17:02 pm
I think if SA had the same intelligence in their rugby as NZ and Aus, and if SA did not have the internecine provincial warfare and selfish provincial attitudes, we would be a greater rugby nation than NZ. We shoot ourselves in the foot at every opportunity and the biggest problem is that the provinces are far too self serving to ever allow the Boks to be numero uno.
NZ has it right. Their national team comes first, and because it is successful, the rest filters down throughout the country and follows suit.
26 Aug 2012, 17:03 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-675: I was battling to decide whether to adapt Sympathy for the devil or Satisfaction – the latter is very apt as well
26 Aug 2012, 17:04 pm
@fitz1ella-673: Mate, the minute he announced his pack of assistants, it was clear the man has trust issues. The fact that he only ‘dared’ look further than the parking bays next to his at Loftus, already spoke of a man who needed things HIS way, with a posse of ‘yes men’ who are purely there to make him feel safe.
Ditto for his hysteria in trying to pull Matfield and du Preez back.
He doesn’t do change well full stop it would seem, which is about the WORST illness in the world for a Bok coach…..
Another dodgy character flaw, is his stubborn refusal to even ‘contemplate’ that he is doing anything wrong in terms of his coaching and game plan, or in his treatment of a few players.
This emperor adored by so many, is going to lose his clothes. Kaalgat tussen die daisies in Australia and New Zealand.
26 Aug 2012, 17:05 pm
yoh the knives are out from the Capey Crew for Meyer… didn’t take very long did it?
26 Aug 2012, 17:05 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-672:
look, i dont have all the answers.
but have you perhaps considered that they actually were not anywhere as good as the players thet are replacing? why is this the coaches fault?
the players need to take responsibility for their game and work on it until they are indeed as good if not better than the players they have replaced,
those were exactly that…THE BEST IN THEIR POSITIONS WORLDWIDE..
and dont think fir a moment it came easy for them.
26 Aug 2012, 17:06 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-672: I agree on the whole playing players out of position. Its a curse in SA rugby. We all saw what happened to Russel, Pienaar etc. Hougaard should decide if he wants to be a wing or 9 and stick to it. Same too with Coenie Oostehuizen. I hear they want to move him to tighthead. I remember that bloke from the Lions…..great potential at LH…cant remember his name now….think he scrummed with Mujati at TH…..DIV wanted to move hime to TH and his game just when downhill from there.
Same with the 6 role. look including a fetcher wont speed up your own ball (which was a huge problem yesterday) as the cleanout was very inefficient but i will defintely slow down opposition ball. It is also a specialist position in terms of defense etc. We didn’t see any major problems against the English as Bissy was very effective at the breakdown. However, without Bissy i would look to include a specialist 6. Brussouw is injured so his out of the equation. The only other specialist 6′s we have is Flouw, Stegman, Watson (who probably wont get a look in.
26 Aug 2012, 17:06 pm
The big problem with coaching rugby especially at national level and more especially in SA is that the ego blow up is WAY too big for these fragile [syuches to handle..
White almost collapsed in a heap of self doubt second to non.. Eddy Jones saved not only his rugby legacy he actually saved the man from committing hari kiri I almost saw him prop the dude up physically on his extended arm.. thats how dependent White became when he couldn’t take one step forward without Eddy lending him a hand..
PdV actually had bigger ballas than both these palookas combined, only difference is PdV rated the input of JS and VM and FDP to such extent that he sold his own soul as part of the package… and in the end was left holding the short straw as the others headed off into their respective sunsets..
But bottom line is the ego explosion that this job offers is just a little too big for the shoulders that are trying to support it.. they invariably blow and only one or two get through the cauldron alive to tell the tale.
You need more humility than bravado to lend credence to a job of this nature.. if your arrogance is too big for your capacity to handle failure then you ain’t gonna make it.. and perhaps HM might not.
26 Aug 2012, 17:08 pm
Are frustrated like hell but too ignorant to realise that all those arm-in-the-air movements like your erstwhile super-’ster’(is it ‘sterre’) Furry Du Preez is a waste of energy.
To ensure you do not walk away and think that solving the forward problem ‘is jou myn konyn’ and brings you back on track,please perish the thought as that is only the short term option.
The real problem is to be found in how the game is deceptively administered. To help you understand this quickly and simply just pay attention to the overwhelming majority type surnames that make up the Presidents Council. Are the franchise/union presidents names like De Klerk, Van Zyl, Verster, Van Graan, Hartzenberg, Roux, Mostert, Boshof, Van Wyk etc. not in the majority, by far? Who among you expect stunning,far-reaching and forward-thinking, atom-splitting decisions to be effected by such in the laager ‘werfbobbejane’?
What they will do is appoint follow-the-master-type puppets like Hoskens, Tite-arse, Telo, PDiv. and other non-thinking,lacking-forsight country-bumkins they can dictate to and subvert with dirty pieces of metal or even sexual threats.
You reap what you sow and thus now reap a rugby hurricane spawning many tornadoes for those are the ‘verkrampte’ seeds you have and continue to sow. Now the ‘boere’/farmers of rugby need to deal with that crop of huge failure.
Me? I am off to watch my Man C. whip these Liverpool arsebags.
26 Aug 2012, 17:08 pm
@trupisero-678:
i’m gonna enjoy singing it back to all the ‘jeezuz killers’.
remember when….
26 Aug 2012, 17:09 pm
Extraball!
26 Aug 2012, 17:09 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-676: Pocock is out for a few months if im not mistaken
26 Aug 2012, 17:10 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-676: The so-called ‘weakened’ Australia will murder us, the way they have consistently done in the last few years. They own us already….but after a showing like yesterday, our Bok players will have the Australian flag tattooed on their backsides by the time they leave Perth.
The breakdown area alone will see the words, “Australians all let us rejoice…” tattooed on the bums of Alberts, Coetzee and Potgieter.
Nee man, dit is scary sh y te die.
26 Aug 2012, 17:10 pm
@Mustard-682:
huh?
how does a fetcher speed up your own ball?
26 Aug 2012, 17:11 pm
@trupisero-669:
You will be feathered and tarred for this in Pretoria and Port Elizabeth (Tacitus)
26 Aug 2012, 17:11 pm
@Mustard-682:
oh see what you mean.
26 Aug 2012, 17:12 pm
[syuches - psyches
26 Aug 2012, 17:13 pm
@Mustard-671:
Some people don’t doubt anymore so there is no benefit to be given.
60% win record after 5 matches against England and Arg? 4 of them at home!!!
Even in the matches that were won, the performance of the team (bar for 30 minutes) was poor.
ow the no. 1 & 2 team awaits over the next few weeks.
Snot en trane…dis wat ek voorsien oor die volgende paar weke.
26 Aug 2012, 17:14 pm
@Robzim-690: its easier when the feathers come before the tar
26 Aug 2012, 17:15 pm
@Mostofyou-684:
hi et,
good to see you’re back
and ready to rid the world of evil
(roling eyes smiley)
26 Aug 2012, 17:15 pm
@Robzim-690: Tac in PE? Shame. The only reason its called the Friendly City is because the wind blows so bloody hard it blows a smile on your face.
26 Aug 2012, 17:16 pm
@Mustard-687:
good.
boks should take it then, provided the ref blows his whistle (as he is supposed to).
26 Aug 2012, 17:17 pm
@Humphrey-680: Incorrect. The Capey crew warned all those who were on honeymoon after Meyer announced his first squad. The Capey crew were told off, called bitter and ignored.
Now the Capey crew’s prophecies are falling into place, and players from unions OTHER than the WPRFU are being treated with ‘little’ respect from the prophet.
I expect a tidal wave of anti-Meyer posts from Natal in the next few weeks.
For us in the Capey Crew, it’s as simple as: Told you so.
26 Aug 2012, 17:18 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-688:
this is a weak ozzie team minus the ozzie who plays as filthy as a kiwi.
i think the boks will take them. they will be hurting after this performance.
26 Aug 2012, 17:19 pm
@trupisero-696:
I am not sure whether Tac is in PE or Despatch/Uitenhage but he is in that vicinity.
26 Aug 2012, 17:21 pm
there is waaaaay too much emotions on display here.
people need to calm down.
act sensibly and rationally.
26 Aug 2012, 17:23 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-699: The Ozzies will be smarting from their whitewash as well.
@Robzim-700: Can picture Tac in Dustpatch with his blue Crocs and Judron shorts
26 Aug 2012, 17:25 pm
Tac went on record saying that the Boks will beat Arg (h & a), Aus (h & a) but will lose against NZ (h & a). He said that would be mission accomplished.
I guess the mission is in its moer now, after the draw against the Pumas.
26 Aug 2012, 17:26 pm
@nama1-693: well lets hope he can turn things around…..for all our sake. In the end we support the Boks, so provincialism and everything else goes out the window. What i don’t get is the people that want him to fail just because his is a BB. I am a Stormers supporter (unfortunately
) but in the end our National team comes first so i want him succeed. I think people judge too quickly and I don’t think its too late for him to turn things around. It can be done. But he has to improve this squad significantly and along with improving the execution of his game plan….should also encourage innovation as well.
26 Aug 2012, 17:27 pm
HM is finished
26 Aug 2012, 17:27 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-679: SA coaches got ego’s way too big for their own capacity.. that why they HAVE to get smacked HARD in the face when their stubborn self worth gets shattered to smithereens..
White deserved his 49-0 awakening like he almost welcomed the event.. that’s how WAY out on a limb he was from recognizing his own fraught self inflicted arrogance and inadequacies.. In the end he got given a life line purely as a result of recognizing how OUT of touch he was with reality… and hired someone who had sufficient credibility to enlighten and support him.
PdV suffered less from this ego rampant malady but also had his own set of self worth issues he had to address, ultimately he backed the wrong horses and that what cost him his credibility but he more or less retained his personality intact.
Meyer seems like a good enough person in view of his personal principles and all that, but he strikes me as being a little short on real courage of conviction, seems he needs to cocoon his position with a bevy of yes men to keep his ego and self esteem unblemished.
His only hope from here is that he RECOGNIZE how fraught with lack of insight he actually is and get some professional help.. like White eventually had to do.. if he want’s to bluster on regardless and he loses the faith and buy in of the players and treats some of them like kindergarten kids who have to lump his determination to do it his way or the highway, then he might just burn himself out, before he even gets past year one.
26 Aug 2012, 17:29 pm
I certainly do not believe that Tac would have suggested the Boks will lose to NZ at home.
Tac’s whole thing is that the Boks should win every home game.
If M Steyn had booted that last penalty over the knives would have been sheathed, or would they still be out?
26 Aug 2012, 17:30 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-697: They are without Pocock but they have 2 good number 6 prospects in Hooper and Gill. If we don’t improve our breakdown efficiency either of those 2 will have a field day. the argie loosies were very physical yesterday and their props at the breakdown. If Aus can somehow replicate that i would worried.
26 Aug 2012, 17:30 pm
@Mostofyou-684: Your take on the President’s Council is mostly correct however, and here is the rub… it has always been the smaller unions running the show as their collective weight is more than the big 5.
This past vote on the Kings saw a switch with your beloved WP and the Cheetahs vote with the small guys.
Perhaps TTightarse wants to be the next Hoskins but this is a bad state. Expect more of the same from the Stellenbosh mafia
26 Aug 2012, 17:31 pm
@nama1-703:
no, they’ll just moer the ab’s home and away instead
26 Aug 2012, 17:34 pm
@Humphrey-707: Still out
26 Aug 2012, 17:35 pm
@Humphrey-707:
I don’t care if you believe it or not.
He called it “being realistic.”
I Morne kicked that penalty, it would’ve been a travesty. The Boks did not deserve to win. In fact, they did not deserve to draw the game.
26 Aug 2012, 17:37 pm
@Mustard-708:
both good but nowhere near as illegal or effective as pocock yet imo.
but yes, its gona be a tough game for either side to win.
26 Aug 2012, 17:38 pm
@nama1-712: Totally. Even if they had won it would still be tragic on Sunday. One of the worst performances of all time.
Pathetic in all areas.
26 Aug 2012, 17:39 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-710:
They’ll need to do that…absolutely.
Can they…….?
26 Aug 2012, 17:40 pm
White went thru 4 years of **** and came out bang on top – EJ went along for the ride, that team was well selected and prepared and ready.
26 Aug 2012, 17:43 pm
The position of bok coach can ruin virually anyone – unless they themeselves think and believe they truly are the medssiah and know the ‘only’ way and surely no-one could be that stupid or hardegat or arrogant – you’d be useless as a coach or person if you couldn’t admit you were wrong, because you simply couldn’t learn as a result.
26 Aug 2012, 17:47 pm
PdV was in ruins in the end – they all were – only one who perhaps got out easy was kitch cos he never lost – there is a whole psychological side that one prob has to prepare for as bok coach cos virtually whatever you do you will be castigated – even winning a 3N and a RWC
26 Aug 2012, 17:47 pm
@trupisero-702: So you fellows are saying that the chap who speaks through Meyer’s mouth (oh yes, they are twinned at the mouth and mind) doesn’t even live in Pretoria?
Precious.
26 Aug 2012, 17:51 pm
Well unless HM is prepared to be flexible and relook his entire farken gameplan he will end up with 1 win from 6 games in this RC……as night follows day we going down like a lead balloon against Aussies and Kiwis sans a fetcher and with the bloody useless M Steyn at 10…
26 Aug 2012, 17:51 pm
@Humphrey-707: Oh not they would be out even more, as we didn’t deserve to win that game, in fact even the draw was flattering. (And the Boks were kak in CT last week, and in the final test against the Poms…Can you honestly tell me you are mightily impressed with what you have seen thus far? In terms of players, selections, game plan, use of the bench and execution
26 Aug 2012, 17:54 pm
I think I may very well have a heart attack if the only changes HM makes for the trip down under are Kanko and FDP back….that will be like elastoplasting a cancer….
Fundamental changes need to made……the most glaring are at 6 and 10…..
26 Aug 2012, 17:56 pm
G10 get the defibrillator ready
26 Aug 2012, 17:58 pm
Hire and fire is also not necessarily the solution.No previous Springbok coach has EARNED the job more than Meyer…I will give Heyneke some more time before I judge him too harshly. He has not inherited a side like Pieter Div and is still finding his feet at this level.
The 2003 and 2007 World cup teams were gelled together over a long period of time for first choice combinations and style of play to take shape. They weren’t instant hits.
The Sharks style of play got them further than the conservative Bulls and defense Stormers this year. Total rugby. offloads in the tackle and great attacking play.
Daniel and Juandre Kruger should start the next game.
Something’s got to give
26 Aug 2012, 18:00 pm
the ‘Kenners ‘ always talk about the spine of a team being the 2… 8….9 …10….15…
Our 2 is in hospital
our 8 is actually a 7
our 9 is being told to play a game foreign to his DNA
our 10 is the weakest link
And our 15 is a hard trying journeyman….
26 Aug 2012, 18:01 pm
Bok problem positions at the moment:
2 – Bissy injured, nothing we can do at this stage, Adrian is the next best thing.
3 – We need a tight head who can hold his own (I am not even asking for a dominator anymore), and who does not give away stupid penalties.
5 – Bekker seems not to be in the right frame of mind for the last 2 years or so
6 – Balance needed. We cannot have 3 big running loosies. Need that fetcher. Brussouw showed how influential he can be in 2009. How he is overlooked is beyond me,
7 – Should be Alberts
8 – Not sure as NOBODY is putting their hands up as a dominator.
9 – Depends. If we want Hougard, me must be allowed to play his game. He is not FDP.
10 – Poor Steyn, he should not be in this position.
11, 12, 13, 14 – all okay when we have a decent half back pairing.
15 – Im not convinced, but he has not played that badly.
26 Aug 2012, 18:01 pm
@cab-723: I am not sure what a defribillator is Cab?
26 Aug 2012, 18:04 pm
Helps with the heart G10 in noodgeval – u may also want to prep ducky for the worst.
Where u been all this time? U missed the best stormers season in history.
26 Aug 2012, 18:06 pm
Meyer may be hard headed but he’s not stupid. One thing he has said since his appointment and again last night was that there are going to be some hard decisions made. And by that some guys will be playing CC this weekend and won’t be in the departure lounge at OR Tambo.
He is slowly starting to realise that faith put in certain players is not paying off. He said one poor game you may get away with but not two.
26 Aug 2012, 18:08 pm
Vermeulen is the correct call at 8….with Kanko a horses for courses rotation can be followed….
at 6 Brussow/ F Louw / Steggmann
At 7 Alberts / Marcelle / Elstaht….
A Bekker is not remotely the player he was 2 years back….
Also not convinced we did the correct thing making JDV a 13 and captain….I foresee another Smit conondrum developing here…..
26 Aug 2012, 18:10 pm
@729, I really hope so.
But herein lies the problem. If he drops 4 or 5 players now, he will not do much better in Aus or NZ.
Right now, you are HM. Who will you drop, and who will you start against the Aussies in 2 weeks time?
HM’s problem is that he has lost some experienced players through injury (Bissy, Pieterson, Spies to name a few), and although Spies was not on form, the experience that those 3 had in pretty important positions has already unsettled the team.
Now drop a few more players, and its player panic.
26 Aug 2012, 18:11 pm
Somebody shoot Kirtchner! I cant take seeing him in the Bok jersey for another game.
26 Aug 2012, 18:11 pm
@G10 – 730,
Who was his other options as Captain?
26 Aug 2012, 18:12 pm
@cab-728: Best Stormers performance in history? Well Cab I went to all the games, left dissapointed and unsure each time…..winning ugly is 1 thing, but that was some damn hideous wins there Cab….no man, must be more to rugby than defending and skopping pennies….That bubble was always going to burst….
Cool to see the Kitshoffs, Etsebeths, Kolisis, etc coming through, but the only standout moments were the wins away in Dunedin, Brisbane and Loftus…..
at newlands we were poor, despite the wins…
the 98 team was better imo
26 Aug 2012, 18:14 pm
@grant10-730:
JDV at 13 is looking that way. HM made it very clear that Frans was his first choice 12 and it’s a way of accomodating JDV because of the captaincy. But JDV woon’t be there forever – this could well be his last season of international rugby before HM decides on a long term captain.
Vermeulen is his first choice 8 but needs more game time – he’s a long way from being match fit.
And HM may have revisit the decision not to go with Brussow.
26 Aug 2012, 18:14 pm
734 g10
yeah defense got tge better of them and opted for kick-chase cos of fatigued pack with injuries but when all fit nigh on unbeatable
26 Aug 2012, 18:15 pm
@BULLET-733: I would have gone with Bissy….
26 Aug 2012, 18:15 pm
@nama1-715:
ja… why not…
26 Aug 2012, 18:16 pm
@737 – fair enough.
26 Aug 2012, 18:17 pm
@grant10-730:
Don’t you th!nk HM should br!ng back Sm!t as a stop unt!l B!smark returns h!s exper!ence !s desperately needed.
26 Aug 2012, 18:17 pm
@cab-736: stormers offense looked better when Habana and JDJ partnered at 12 and 13….
26 Aug 2012, 18:19 pm
@I am a stormer-735: well i hope HM has the balls to reinstate Brussow….with Alberts at 7 and Vermeulen at 8 we are on the right path….Marcelle and Kolisi will have to fight it out for jersey 16 imo….
26 Aug 2012, 18:19 pm
@740 Jeraldjay,
I am a big Smit fan… – but no!
Smit is past it, and it will not necessarily help HM, or the Boks.
26 Aug 2012, 18:21 pm
@Jeraldjay-740: LOL…..You joking right?
If not, then …No …x a farken 1000
26 Aug 2012, 18:21 pm
@742 – G10, agreed
Our pack weighed 52kgs more than the Pumas with this massive loose forward fascination we have, and we got nailed at the breakdown by a team not reknowned for breakdown play.
If we dont get Brussouw in, we will get hammered in NZ on the ground. More turnovers than against the Aussies
26 Aug 2012, 18:22 pm
If Smit had to come back, I think that G10 would boycott the site again, and thats not good for the bloggers. I missed him!
26 Aug 2012, 18:23 pm
@Jeraldjay-740: ??? There was a huge debate on here the other day re: John Smit. I was a huge fan of the man and all that….but you honestly want to bring him back? Or you are pulling a few legs yes?
26 Aug 2012, 18:25 pm
@BULLET-731:
Bekker needs more game time at CC level before a recall can be considered.
Potgieter can go and play CC for the rest of his career as far as I’m concerned.
HM has had to defend M Steyn publicly – he can’t do that again. Jantjes or Goosen need an opportunity at the highest level. It’s time to sink or swim now for the youngsters.
26 Aug 2012, 18:28 pm
What Meyer needs to do is appoint some attack/backline guru to work with our youngsters and our coaches in SA. The RWC quarterfinal exit last year in Aus should have been a major wake up call to any coach coming that our attack leaves a lot to be desired and desperately needs to be overhauled.
Meyer should have appointed a backline guru like Wayne Smith/Jo Schmidt/ or possibly Carlos Spencer now that he is available. That person could then work with the SA schools and SA U20s as well as be at Craven Week. He could work with each franchise on a secondment basis working with SA coaches like Hawies Fourie or Bashford or whoever has been identified while also work with our junior sides. His main role would be to implement attacking systems, give tactical ploys and help bring creative plays to all our teams. We desperately need something like this.
The All Blacks have it best as all their 5 franchises play a running game which means that come All Black training all their players are singing from the same hymn sheet and the coaches can then tweak various things, and adds further layers to the detail.
Until we radically overhaul our attack and learn the lessons from the RWC 11 exit we are going to be stagnant and frustrated.
26 Aug 2012, 18:29 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-747:
JS can be recalled for his versatility being able to cover 1 and 3. And also form part of the leadership group until a long term solution is found.
26 Aug 2012, 18:29 pm
@748:
I am all for bringing the youngsters through, but they too will need a decent opportunity to shine. I feel that the team on the back of a hiding with inexperienced players around them will not be a great environment to shine.
That said, a dramatic change in attitude & synergy is required.
I think that HM needs to be bold, and bring in a few old Boks. (Brussouw for one, possibly Vermulen for another), and then perhaps look to blood 1 youngster at 10.
If I was him, this would be my team for the next game v the Aussies:
1 – Beast
2 – Strauss
3 – JDUP
4 – Etzbeth
5 – Kruger
6 – Brussouw
7 – Alberts
8 – Vermulen
9 – Pienaar
10 – Goosen (worth a shot)
11 – Habana
12 – Steyn
13 – JDV
14 – Hougard
15 – Lambie / Kirchener
26 Aug 2012, 18:30 pm
@BULLET-746: LOL….Just got tired of the same old same old…..will ignore the non rugby kak from now on
26 Aug 2012, 18:30 pm
@grant10-744:
I’ve been here a wh!le and know about your well documented love affa!r w!th John “Aura” Sm!t.
26 Aug 2012, 18:31 pm
thats the springboks biggest issue right there
there has not been a player big enough to step up as captain since john
say what you want but he was a great cappy
there isn’t a single individual in this squad that comes anywhere near to being called a bok captain
there’s a few so called ‘leaders’ in this team maybe
there aint no captains
26 Aug 2012, 18:35 pm
@I am a stormer-750:
plus he’s playing good rugby actually.
him, bakkies and gurthro and you’ve got the makings of a dream team right there.
26 Aug 2012, 18:35 pm
@pat1-749:
Meyer has an attack coach. He is the forward coach as well: van Graan.
Tells you all you want to know about the “attacking” rugby the Boks are going to play under his reign.
26 Aug 2012, 18:37 pm
@BULLET-751:
That’s a decent side and may reflect some of the hard decisions that HM will have to make.
His next squad announcement could be quite revealing.
26 Aug 2012, 18:38 pm
@BULLET-751:
After his performance yesterday, Jantjies deserves a shot ahead of Goosen.
Goosen only played for 50 minutes and need more game time in the CC before he can be considered.
26 Aug 2012, 18:40 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-755:
The thing is I was only joking about JS.
But you’re right about the captaincy issue. He is taking his time until he knows the players better because JDV won’t be around for much longer on the international scene.
26 Aug 2012, 18:43 pm
We don’t need John Smit, Bakkies Botha, Gurthro steenkamp, Fourie du Preez, Victor Matfield, Bob Skinstad, Naas Botha, Francois Pienaar, Frik du Preez, Mannetjies Roux or any of the old has beens.
What we need to do is to select the right team with the current available talent.
They are there. Select them.
26 Aug 2012, 18:45 pm
@I am a stormer-750: John Smit is past it and he is not the solution, besides Bissy is the best Hooker in the world when on form. We have lost a lot of experience of late but we need to start a fresh and move forward from our previous crop of players. When Burger, Bissy and Brussow is fully fit I would have them in the team.
this is what i hope the team would eventually look like
1. beast
2. bismark
3. jannie
4. etsebeth
5. bekker (form permitting)
6. brusow
7. alberts
8. burger
9. hougaard
10. goosen
11. habana
12. frans
13. jdv
14. jpp
15. aplon
16. strauss
17. cilliers
18. flip/elstadt
19. coetzee
20. pienaar
21. lambie
22. jdj
26 Aug 2012, 18:45 pm
Nama – don’t be so fast on gurthro – prob at least 2 seasons left and he’s a worldclass 1 still.
26 Aug 2012, 18:47 pm
@nama1-756:
sound like the makings of a rovolutionary ‘game changing’ adaptation to me.
take the attack away from the backs who are further from the advantage line and give it to the forwards.
this could be genius
26 Aug 2012, 18:48 pm
@grant10-730: ‘A Bekker is not remotely the player he was 2 years back….’
yes he is, he was just never that good at the highest level, Mallett has said as much repeatedly. Decent Super rugby player and that’s just about where it ends.
26 Aug 2012, 18:49 pm
@I am a stormer-759:
was a brain failure by jdv not to kick the penatly instead of a lineout though.
26 Aug 2012, 18:49 pm
@I am a stormer-759:
B!ssy appears to be the only long term opt!on. If Schalk returns maybe h!m but I’d go w!th B!ssy.
I know you a b!g HM fan and there !s def!n!tely more to h!m than these 1st 5 games but at the moment th!ngs aren’t look!ng good.
26 Aug 2012, 18:50 pm
@nama1-760:
HM has stated that he will only go with overseas players if there is no-one else locally in that position. Going overseas is tantamount to kissing your Bok aspirations away.
@Mustard-761:
I cleared that up in #759.
26 Aug 2012, 18:52 pm
@Big Hit-764:
But Victor Matfield has said Bekker is the best lock that he ever played against and has the potential to be better than he(matfield) ever was.
The moral of the story? So many people so many opinions..
26 Aug 2012, 18:53 pm
@cab-762:
absolutely.
guthro has played some monumentally farking awesome games for toulouse.
shitt the way he destroyed toulons th and their scrum in the top14 final was out of this world.
26 Aug 2012, 18:56 pm
@Robzim-768:
let me guess, victor was at a book signing somewhere in the mother city and had to work his audience..right..?..
26 Aug 2012, 18:56 pm
@Jeraldjay-766:
I’m just prepared to give HM the benefit of the doubt right now particularly as it is early in his tenure.
But I’m sure he’s starting to get sleepless nights right now when players he put his faith in aren’t coming through. And he has said that he won’t be afraid to drop players – well he sent Kolisi and JDJ back to CC.
Let’s see if he can do that to the Bulls players as well.
26 Aug 2012, 18:58 pm
@Robzim-768: Bekker is a bit of an enigma. At times he looked world class…..head and shoulders above any other lock. Then at times (like yesterday) looks completely lazy. He has been plagued with injury so the only explanation i can think of is that he must be nursing some kind of niggle and is not fully fit. Or needs some serious attitude adjustment.
26 Aug 2012, 18:58 pm
@cab-762:
Yes, but we have Beast and Coenie right here. They are not too far behind him while Kitshoff is coming through nicely.
26 Aug 2012, 18:59 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-754: I’ll tell you right now, a definited Bok captain in waiting is leaving these shores because of the way he was treated in the S15…having to suck on the hind *** at the Bulls. CJ Stander. That my blue friend, had captain, leader, and ‘follow me’ written all over it. (In the way I always felt Dewald Potgieter had it written all over him……)
But hey, thats just me.
26 Aug 2012, 19:00 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-770:
That is where he said it . But will you call the man who most rugby followers probably include in their list of the 5 all time best springboks a liar?
26 Aug 2012, 19:00 pm
Meyer,with his weird rugby philosophies,will take us back to dark old days of Straeuli.
26 Aug 2012, 19:04 pm
@Mustard-772:
Ja, I agree with you- I have seen him in awesome form where he was untouchable but he is not nearly there at the moment. Can only be as a result of one or a combination of the reasons you mentioned.
26 Aug 2012, 19:04 pm
@Robzim-768: In 2010 most certainly. In 2012 Andries was sublime to the point of the ridiculous. In the tight, in the loose, in fact everywhere.
And then: the back injury, No 1, when he pulled out of that silly Wales test some fool had scheduled just after the Super rugby final between the Bulls and Stormers. At the same time, the marital woes – and bang, man down.
I don’t believe his back has ever, and WILL ever heal in a way that will make him a permanent fixture in any team he plays for. That added to the glaringly obvious fact, that he now plays to conserve himself and his career…..and not to dominate anything. (Maybe it’s because he can’t….)
I am still p#ssed as all hell that Quinn Roux went to Ireland, as an Eben 5, Roux 4 combo was the future for the Stormers at least…with Elstadt pulling a Danie Rossouw.
Now Elstadt should revert back to 4, Eben 5, and Andries can cruise somewhere else. I just think it’s a better long term decision.
26 Aug 2012, 19:05 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-778: Ooops ignore the 2012, it should read 2010.
26 Aug 2012, 19:06 pm
HM first words of distrust came when he said he would choose form players and then picks the players out of form. He is pretender who tries to con genuine supporters. When he decided to choose the Blue Boks for his first squad Stormers supporters were called whingers. Now the whole of SA is singing from the same hymn book. I say get rid of the man now. He has no vision and I for one still don’t know what he is planning to achieve. He wanted has beens and then we should have seen this man has no idea. The sooner Mallet is pulled in the better. The man had a great record and speaks sense. Sorry Tac your Messiah is a con…
26 Aug 2012, 19:06 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-763:
You would hope so, I guess.
———————————-
Boks vs NZ Maori’s in 1981 on again for all the laaities who were too young back then or haven’t been born yet.
Presenter describing the match as a “goodwill gesture,” by the Boks, ie white SA agree to play against the Maori’s in order for the tour to go ahead.
26 Aug 2012, 19:06 pm
@I am a stormer-771:
And some bloggers are asking for HM’s head if he dosen’t win in Perth.
That 1st 40mins of the 2nd test against the Poms is the bench mark. If we can replicate that performance for 80mins we are on the right track.
26 Aug 2012, 19:07 pm
Is HM on a 3 or 6 month probation period like all other jobs? I don’t see why the Bok coach should be virtually guaranteed a 4 year tenure. If they don’t cut the mustard (eg 70 or 80 % win ratio) they must get the sack!
Let’s give HM a chance, but a 60% win ratio (agaist a weak Eng side @ home and RC newbies Argentina) is a VERY poor start, from what I have seen thus far we will really struggle agaist the Wallabies and ABs.
26 Aug 2012, 19:09 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-774:
i think stander will be back and i rate dewald highly too, so agreed.
@Robzim-775:
i’ll take the fifth, your honour.
26 Aug 2012, 19:12 pm
@brains_trust-783:
was jake white or pdv?
26 Aug 2012, 19:12 pm
If Meyer loses all four games against the Australasian teams I will call for his head to roll als French guillotine style.
26 Aug 2012, 19:14 pm
@I am a stormer-767: I would tend to agree with skop in that SA are playing with two No.5 locks at present, a Botha-Etzebeth combination would be hard to better globally.
@Mustard-772: when has he looked world class at test level? I would suggest that if he has looked head and shoulders above other locks it may simply be that he is taller than them
@Jeraldjay-782: just so you’re aware, that was a pretty weak England pack. Lancaster hasn’t got the hang of forward selection at all, but he will learn, unfortunately the hard way.
26 Aug 2012, 19:14 pm
@wnbb-786:
So if we win one it is fine…
The difference between a nation of winners and losers I guess…
26 Aug 2012, 19:17 pm
@wnbb-786:
An appraisal after the year end tour.
26 Aug 2012, 19:17 pm
@Gumboots-780:
Not only did he pick players who were out of form, he also picked players whose form could not be gauged because they did not play for weeks due to injury or their time on the field was very limited because they were reserves.
I’m sure the fact that these players are Bulls, is just coincidental.
26 Aug 2012, 19:18 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-784: Would i be wrong in saying HM is hated in the Cape???
26 Aug 2012, 19:18 pm
@Gumboots-780: Another one on the side of the righteous
I’m glad we have strength in numbers….Taccy won’t like it.
26 Aug 2012, 19:19 pm
@Jeraldjay-782:
HM is definitely feeling the pressure right now and there’s nothing like a Bok victory – a quality victory – to set things on course.
The Boks played their get out jail card just in time last night. And people want to chop off his head and he hasn’t lost a game yet.
I still reckon we can take the Aussies twice even after yesterday’s performance.But the big test is NZ in NZ – that’s where all coaches get measured.
26 Aug 2012, 19:20 pm
@I am a stormer-793: Exactly,
26 Aug 2012, 19:22 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-778:
I cannot disagree with anything you just posted- highly unlikely that he will ever fulfill his undoubtedly huge potential- the fact that AC played him into he ground also did him no favours.
The less i say about the WP management re Quinn Roux the better. I have lost all faith in them and I doubt now whether they will even be able to sign Jantjes for next year. We will most likely end up with Duvenhage and Grant again and the end result will be exacly the same as during the last few years. For my sins I will support the Stormers/WP for ever though.
26 Aug 2012, 19:23 pm
I would prefer him gone Boots due to his lack of vision and biased selection criteria,but I am hoping that he will still see the light at the end of tunnel and exhibit these visionary skills his supporters will die by.If Meyer started a cult movement he would have no problems in membership recruitment seeing how he is feted on here as the real Messiah.
26 Aug 2012, 19:24 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-792:
I am taking this really badly. As a proud SAFFA I find it hard to eat his lies day in and day out. He is the biggest pretender to ever coach the Boks. When someone says there is only one game plan but we need to perfect it, then you know the guy has no idea. I say get rid of the guy before he embarrases us even more. If I say I am mad it is an understatement. What irks me even more is the way some people try and vilify what he is doing. If anyone says he is a good coach then I think they need counseling. What he achieved in the dark age has no bearing on the way the game has evolved now… Man ek is die bliksem in…
26 Aug 2012, 19:27 pm
… and it doesn’t matter who he chooses – it is not necessarily the players but the game plan which outdated and so predictable…
26 Aug 2012, 19:28 pm
@Gumboots-797: Gummybear?? are you the new G10??
26 Aug 2012, 19:29 pm
Ok,as per the korporaaltjie,if he can’t beat Scotland on the eoyt he really should go.
26 Aug 2012, 19:30 pm
@sharks_lover-799:
No I’m Bill! A baie bedonnered een…
I have never been so embarrased watching a rugby match and remember I am Stormer…
26 Aug 2012, 19:31 pm
@Robzim-795: For our sins we get to support the Stormers/WP and the Boks – oh happy days
@wnbb-796: @Gumboots-797: Agree with both of you, and not because ‘Heyneke’ is hated in the Cape….but because he doesn’t inspire any trust what so ever. His selections and treatement of players, added to his arrogant statements on public platforms – nah.
A few from Natal still seem to be on honeymoon with Meyer….but that’s purely because he selected to many Sharks – no other reason. But I don’t get their adoration of Meyer, when it is Lambie, Daniel and Coetzee who are being shunted and runted more than others.
Me, I’m not surprised or disappointed to be honest – prepared myself for it when Meyer started with his public deceit.
26 Aug 2012, 19:35 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-802:
Just watch his erratic behaviour when the cameras pan in on him.
He looks like a an HD/AD kid, but what worries me he acts like one too.
What confidence does that give his players…
26 Aug 2012, 19:35 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-802: A very few
26 Aug 2012, 19:36 pm
And you know what the irony is….. my team, the Stormers, adopted this farken gameplan and ended top of the Super Rugby logo.
Talk about the elephant in the room…..
26 Aug 2012, 19:38 pm
@Jeraldjay-805:
26 Aug 2012, 19:38 pm
@Jeraldjay-805: And won sweet farkall
26 Aug 2012, 19:38 pm
@nama1-629:
Mediocre to poor, we all saw it?
It had been discussed before: with Hougaard & M. Styen’s old firm in control, even the best inside centre will not perform, put Lambie and Pienaar or Grant and Duvenage, or Pretorius and Goosen there, then we pass a judgement.
His defence was rock solid, as usual.
Get JJ and Hougaard to the wings and team him up with Jacques Fourie, Butch or Lambie at 10 and they’ll run rings around the opposition, sadly it will never happened
26 Aug 2012, 19:39 pm
I think HM has attempted to discount the need for a “fetcher” or “poacher “, because he feels with size and brute force he will win opposition ball by hard counter rucks.
Well its not working especially with the Bekkers and Potgieters, and now that Bismark is out too
The need for a fetcher with skills to win the ball on the ground and turn-over possession is obvious
Weather its done legally or illegally (RM and Pocock) we need to do it too
Other than that select a true # 8 with a fetcher and a new 10 and 15
I would drop Kirshner, M Steyn , Potgieter Flip even Bekker from the squad
Bring in W le roux, Jantjies , Goosen, Kruger and Brussow if fit
Even consider Elstadt ( at least he has the aggression)
Pity about Kolisi now
26 Aug 2012, 19:40 pm
The treatment of Daniel was the shocker of the week.The oke gets dumped to the bench after his first start in a Bok team.He certainly isn’t my cup of tea for the Bok team but surely he should be given a few starts at eight after they decided to go with him last week.Crappo Spies had how many opportunities??At the end of the day Meyer will destroy the confidence of these players.Just my opinion.
26 Aug 2012, 19:41 pm
@Gumboots-798:
Howzit Bill. The game plan has obviously got to evolve. It was White who came out and said he wanted to play rugby without the ball which I hope HM doesn’t continue with. Mallet went off pop in the studio yesterday and said playing like that displays a negative mindset.
White’s defence of that strategy was that if you keep the ball for longer you’re going to make more mistakes. What that tells me is that then there is something drastically wrong with the players skill sets in keeping control of the ball.
I think the current bunch of up and coming youngsters do have the skill sets to keep the ball in hand for longer periods.
26 Aug 2012, 19:41 pm
There is concern at 9 too
Hougaard not the same as last year and I am not sure pienaar is the answer there either
Hougaard on the wing
26 Aug 2012, 19:41 pm
@CoachPete-809:
Howzit Coach. Long time… It is going to be a long year…
26 Aug 2012, 19:43 pm
@I am a stormer-811: We need revolution, not evolution
26 Aug 2012, 19:43 pm
@wnbb-810:
I agree 100% Look what he did in the short amount of time on the field yesterday
And then HM takes of Coetzee and not The “flop”
Potgieter better than Daniel ????? NEVER EVER
26 Aug 2012, 19:44 pm
@I am a stormer-811:
Howzit mate! Our local coaches have the habit to coach skills out of the players… I’m not blaming the players they don’t choose themselves. Actually it doesn’t matter who he chooses with that game plan he will win few friends.
26 Aug 2012, 19:44 pm
@Gumboots-813:
yeah mate Howzit
I am worried about next four games for sure.
We are all passionate bok supporters and what happening really upsets me
26 Aug 2012, 19:45 pm
@Gumboots-797:
Another thing that pisses me off from HM is that he so often refers to mental strenght and about geting into the minds of players and that he will rather select a player who is (according to him) mentally stronger than one who he sees as mentally weaker. The flippin bloke has a honours degree in Geography and a teachers diploma which hardy qualifies him as a psycologist so imo he should stop this quasi- psycho rubbish and concentrate on finding a better up to date gameplan before trying to get too clever as even the mentally gifted will not win test matches with such a outdated archaic gameplan.
26 Aug 2012, 19:45 pm
And Kolisi is out too, a broken thumb… the options get smaller
26 Aug 2012, 19:46 pm
@Gumboots-816:
Credit to the Argies
The spotted our weakness and took advantage
They knew we had not fetcher and no Bismark and a weak 7
So credit to them
26 Aug 2012, 19:46 pm
Did Saru send Meyer for a psychological test before they appointed him.I would not like a Hannibal Lecter/Rudolph Straeuli character running loose around the Bok team.His antics with radio in hand is worrying.
26 Aug 2012, 19:47 pm
@CoachPete-817:
Don’t expect too much… We are all passionate as you say and only want the best results…
Anyways the tribe has spoken and I have to be off. Cheers all and let’s hope the coach sees the light…
26 Aug 2012, 19:47 pm
@trupisero-814:
You mean like a palace revolution and get rid of the Bulls?
I think it could happen. His next squad announcement for the trip downunder will tells us what we need to know.
26 Aug 2012, 19:47 pm
@sharks_lover-791:
whatever would give you that idea..?…
26 Aug 2012, 19:48 pm
@Robzim-818:
Hi Rob
he just says it to sound smart
Basically he is picking big brute strong players the bigger the better.
And then wanting to bash the opposition into submission
26 Aug 2012, 19:48 pm
@Robzim-818:
Ja talk is cheap. He said there will be no excuses… Now lets wait and see.
26 Aug 2012, 19:49 pm
@Gumboots-822:
Cheers
26 Aug 2012, 19:49 pm
@CoachPete-820:
Yes they should have won the game for sure…
26 Aug 2012, 19:49 pm
@goyougoodthing2-819:
oh vok, now he can select Steggman- or whoever plays flank for the Bulls B team?
26 Aug 2012, 19:50 pm
In other news the Bulls gave the sharks a glorious snotting last night.
Pine Pienaar for Bok.coach.
26 Aug 2012, 19:51 pm
@wnbb-821: That’s not half of it:
1. He won’t get in a lift with anyone else
2. All the powerade bottles must line up a specific way
3. He will only drink 1 particular colour of powerade
and that’s just for starters
26 Aug 2012, 19:53 pm
@Gumboots-806: Dare we dream….Mallet sigh.
@Robzim-818: Exactly what I said earlier. He thinks he is sports version of Freud. I listened to one of his motivational ‘miracle’ talks on a tv show when he was 1st appointed. I honestly laughed out loud. It might work for a player who has been raised within the boundaries of our conservative national psyche (blindly believing anything a person with perceived power says..) OR a kid about to take the stage in a talent competition, but not for any rational thinking adult.
For one that speaks of mental toughness, his now regular mental collapses in the coaches box are starting to make him look fuckingtouched in the noggin.
@wnbb-810: I tried to tell them…..Daniel, Lambie and Coetzee worst treated players of the lot, yet some Sharks are still enamoured with Meyer – unfuckingbelievable.
26 Aug 2012, 19:53 pm
@goyougoodthing2-831:
Oh my god that explains everything
Were f%#@ked
26 Aug 2012, 19:53 pm
@CoachPete-825:
Yeah, you are probably right. He loves robotic players and where in the world of rugby can u find a better or bigger robot than greaser Potgieter.
26 Aug 2012, 19:53 pm
@nama1-790:
yes probably,
but remember… mental strength and conditioning is incidental to the bulls players because of the processes in place at the bulls… can we say the same for the other unions..?..
maybe its not so much that meyer thinks non bb players aren’t ready but that he thinks their unions processes aren;t
so many cats to skin….
26 Aug 2012, 19:54 pm
@CoachPete-833: The man is a loon apparently.
26 Aug 2012, 19:56 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-802:
huh?
half the team are sharkies… of course they would be
and to top it off the captain’s a stormer so worse comes to worse he takes the blame
26 Aug 2012, 19:56 pm
Don’t be like that Robzim.
If the Greaser was born in Durbanville you would love him more than your first born.
26 Aug 2012, 19:59 pm
@goyougoodthing2-836:
let me tell you something
Coaching rugby can make you loony
26 Aug 2012, 20:00 pm
@gunther-830:
pine pienaar is already coaching the ‘real’ boks
@goyougoodthing2-831:
26 Aug 2012, 20:03 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-832:
freud? never heard of him. what level was he coaching at? schoolboy, club or union?
26 Aug 2012, 20:03 pm
@gunther-838:
You can say about Durbanville whatever you like but if you find anybody here with a hairstye like his (including the gel/grease/wax) I will buy you a brand new pink bulls jersey
26 Aug 2012, 20:04 pm
@Robzim-834:
i must admit when i watch potgieter play i cant help wondering what he would look like on a dancefloor.
26 Aug 2012, 20:08 pm
Kolisi’s out for the rest of the season.
Cricket was rained out, Province lost to the Lions, Boks LOST against the Argies and goalless draw against Stoke.
Yoh, this is a kak week-end.
26 Aug 2012, 20:08 pm
@Robzim-842:
speaking of which, how’s vermeulen doing? must’ve been a really bad injury cos i noticed his hair hasn’t recovered.
it was bad
very bad
26 Aug 2012, 20:11 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-843:
26 Aug 2012, 20:13 pm
@sharks_lover-846:
true story
26 Aug 2012, 20:15 pm
Do me a favourite Robbo even the Librarians in Durbanville rock the greaseball mullet.
I look forward to receiving thirty give thousand pink bulls jerseys in the post.
Thank you for sorting my pension.
Up until now it had been a mild concern.
26 Aug 2012, 20:16 pm
kryst and i though percy’s highlights were bad.
what vermeulen’s done there is just criminal.
doesn’t he have a gf who couldv’e done it for him?
26 Aug 2012, 20:18 pm
province just does not seem to be serious about their rugby.
26 Aug 2012, 20:20 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-849:
Grantie has been busy blogging recently.
26 Aug 2012, 20:21 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-841:
She is talking about Lucien Freud the painter.
Very cultured sheila our mad dog.
I want her so much it aches.
26 Aug 2012, 20:22 pm
I heared things in marikana are back no normal…. The 34 miners are back under ground…
26 Aug 2012, 20:25 pm
@goyougoodthing2-836: You are joking right?
26 Aug 2012, 20:25 pm
@grant100-853:
wtf thats pretty sick
26 Aug 2012, 20:25 pm
Frans
Hougaard
Jdv
Mossie
Jpp
Goosen
Fourie dup
Spies
Burger
Brussouw
Bakkies
Bekker
Janni dup
Bismark
Beast
This team will kill nz
26 Aug 2012, 20:25 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-845:
It’s a bit better now, sort of shortish mullet with medium hi- lites.
He developed his love for Billy Ray Cyrus when he was still living in he Free State and is struggling to kick the habit despite living in civilised Durbanville for quite a while now. He still beats Elton though (jantjes, not john) .
26 Aug 2012, 20:29 pm
@Robzim-857:
26 Aug 2012, 20:36 pm
@grant100-853: You want a reaction of course.
No, correction, you NEED a reaction as this is your version of ‘online ***’.
The more people react to your whacked off tendencies, the more you jack off. I’m correct of course.
Do you use your pinkie finger and thumb to work with the ‘little guy’?
And what have you named it? The 9 (ooops sorry typo) 2 inch nail?
26 Aug 2012, 20:37 pm
@Robzim-857:
did you watch the province game? i honestly couldn’t tell if it was a mullet but it certainly was an ‘interesting’ colour.
gawd hepl me, if there’s a kid who needs his hair cut its elton. i’m pretty sure he would look better with one.
@gunther-851:
are you saying he should hi-lite it
@gunther-852:
naughty gunther.
26 Aug 2012, 20:39 pm
Sharks pedigree i sommer ask your daughter to help…. I cant type an jerk off at the same time… Cant type with one hand….
26 Aug 2012, 20:40 pm
@Robzim-857: I am one of Duane’s most ardent fans, but eish….I see him out and about a bit, and he honestly is not one of those ‘overly’ worried about appearance at the best of times.
But he cleans up nicely.
26 Aug 2012, 20:41 pm
@gunther-852:
why dont you just
have her
(relationship status permitting)
26 Aug 2012, 20:43 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-862:
focus cupcake
the convo’s specifically about his hi-lites ‘only’
26 Aug 2012, 20:48 pm
Boks are actually a bit soft, both in body and mind.. they are nowhere near as tough as some of these Argies and NZ players man for man..
when Argies started roughing them up bokkies took the bait and that was where they lost the game.. right up there in the first 10 minutes when Argies let the boertjies know this little excursion into the foothills of the Andes wasn’t gonna end with any rosy ring about it.
So Meyer might talk all tough but I wonder how tough he really is.. he could try go like Streauli and institute a military style boot camp to harden these rugger buggers up.. but we all know that won’t work he just has to select the tough nut players which he hasn’t done.
26 Aug 2012, 20:48 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-864: Boo
Helluva nice guy though, character of the highest order. Yes, I am a fan 
26 Aug 2012, 20:51 pm
@gunther-848: Don’t you be dissing Durbanville library….I still have 5 of their reference books (those of the may not be removed sort) that I ‘borrowed’ back in the day for a school project (and never returned). There was no public interweb at the time….
26 Aug 2012, 20:54 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-862:
He was on some TV show a while ago- being interviewed by Dieter Voigt while braaiing with his fiance, his sister and Joe P – seemed like a moerse nice guy, extremely laid back. His sister is quite a stunner btw.
26 Aug 2012, 21:00 pm
@fitz1ella-865:
so he is correct in saying the players lack mental toughness?
good to know.
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-866:
awww
he has a fiance though, sorry (refer post #868)
26 Aug 2012, 21:01 pm
in other news gunther’s quite the stud
(nudge wink nudge)
26 Aug 2012, 21:03 pm
where all the Meyer disciples.. pretty conspicuous by their absence
only one put in a half hearted appearance was that Corporal Van Zyl character trying to sing the Spies is still king ditty…and Potgieter was the busiest bok at the breakdown song and dance routine… no wonder Argies smacked us silly if Potgieter happened to be our knight in shining armor
26 Aug 2012, 21:04 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-854: 100% true
26 Aug 2012, 21:11 pm
the fact that Kolisi has now injured himself in a meaningless CC game vs Lions is downright travesty where the Boks are crying out for competitive loosies at the breakdown while best candidates Elstadt, Kolisi and Brussow are all injured due to playing extensive meaningless CC rugby.
Poor player management if ever I seen any.
26 Aug 2012, 21:14 pm
How many Springbok caps is this Kirtchner bloke going to accumulate? He’s so average it’s unreal. He’s the talisman of average in the Bok team(Morne Steyn at least had some big moments in his career) Hopefully Meyer starts Lambie at fullback vs the Aussies and gives firm instructions to Steyn to stop kicking fckn bombs.
If I was Heineken I wouldn’t change the backrow for the Aussie match; he’s made the calls already for the RC just let the guys settle into their positions a bit (Potgieter wasn’t bad against the Argies TBH and the Aussie backrow certainly isn’t any better) and maybe introduce Daniel earlier than he did in Mendoza.
26 Aug 2012, 21:21 pm
@fitz1ella-873:
Yeah Skoppie that makes makes it even harder to take
he should have been in Mendoza
26 Aug 2012, 21:22 pm
I really don’t see what everyone clamors about Lambie at full back, he been pathetically average there and showed as much when playing 15 for Sharks vs Chiefs.. very poor under stringent conditions.. Kirchner is even worse so if Boks don’t want to end up stone last on the rugby Richter scale again either of Lambie or Kirchner are no good for Bok 15
Play F. Steyn at 15 if you need some rock of Gibraltar stop gap, but if you want an attacking flair from 15 then the way to go is Gio Aplon or Andries Pretorius or Willie Le Roux.. or even Ludick or Francoise Fouche.., but not Lambie or Kirchner. definitely NOT.!!
26 Aug 2012, 21:30 pm
@CoachPete-875: very poor player mismanagement Meyer basically discards him out his Bok plans and plays that moronic overrated Tarzan twat and the net result is Kolisi out for the rest of the season.. this Meyer moron should get hung drawn and quartered for his blind as bat moronic idiocy sending Bok rugby in reverse gear at a rate of knots
26 Aug 2012, 21:34 pm
cab still reckons White was a good rugby coach..
NO good rugby coach loses 49-0 to ANY team EVER and NEVER.. White was such a pathetic rugby coach who got smacked silly by NZ 7 out of 10 starts and lost twice to Ireland AFTER he proudly proclaimed no Irishman would be seen dead in any position in his team and lost 3 from 4 vs France…
White without Jones was a dead man walking and he knew it only too well.. if White would have contested the 2007 WC alone without Jones calling the tune and instituting the game plan he would have been sent home in the quarters .. Fiji would have sent Boks home, same way France did to NZ.
26 Aug 2012, 21:35 pm
@fitz1ella-876: Lambie was very prominent at fullback in the Boks best performance under Meyer (the 2nd test vs England). He’s a far better bet than Kirtchner.
26 Aug 2012, 21:39 pm
@fitz1ella-878:
yeah and you still cant accept he won the little gold trinket cos u dislike him so much. what you wanna deny reality for? you also said he would be useless as a s15 coach, now he revolutionised brumbies in first year – so what is what ekse?
you keep attributing all these successes to all of whites team’s to everyone but white, he must be gdam lucky is all i can say – and one thing else, say what you want about White but he was as tenacious as all hell, no-one not you, not frikkie, not the blobul union, not the gdam ANC itself could remove him from the Bok post, he fought all the way and came out top, yes even after the 49-0 result..to lift the RWC, the greatest trophy in world rugby.
26 Aug 2012, 21:50 pm
Technique, why have the Sharks managed top keep their pack intact throughout most of the season and the Stormers are all broken. The ABs have very few injuries. The Kiwis and their coaches understand technique
26 Aug 2012, 21:59 pm
@Robzim-868:
His fiancé his sister and Joe P?
Which was Joe P?
Fiancé or sister?
26 Aug 2012, 22:00 pm
@fitz1ella-878: old Sir Clive lost 76-0 and 64-22 on consecutive weekends, Wales under Henry had 50 points put on them in Dublin.
@Spiesisworthless1-879: I think Lambie is a better player but purely on his Bok performances I don’t get the criticism of Kirchner, imo he has played reasonably well.
26 Aug 2012, 22:02 pm
Let me guess.
Fuckadilly predicted this in his morning stool?
26 Aug 2012, 22:02 pm
The 2007 WC was a no contest WC .. Argentina and England most definitely do not represent strongest 2 rugby nations to contest a semi and final against…
White lost to NZ 7 times from 10 starts
that is how I rate White, he lost to Aus 49-0 away and 45 – 26 to NZ at home
He lost both times he played Ireland away and lost to France home and away 3 from 4 starts.
in 2006 and 2007 Whites 3N record read played 10 won 3 lost 7
Before Eddy Jones White was TOTALLY lost at sea without a hope in the world of getting the Boks up to WC competitive strategy..
a 19 year old Frans Steyn kicked 2 long range drop goals at Newlands to prevent a total whitewash clean sweep loss in the 3N prior to the WC
The difference between Boks prior to the EJ inclusion and after EJ spent just a couple of weeks with Whites Boks was like DAY vs NIGHT
White was and is a very mediocre coach.. 66 % success rate when the bulk of that percentage is made up of wins vs Namibia, Samoa, Argentina, Wales and England on weak inbound tours etc., then you know White was a poor coach who got lucky..
Since Eddy Jones educated White into some decent open rugby strategic thinking White has improved.. like now he plays fetchers at Brumbies while when he was Bok coach his goddamn brain was shut tight same as this poor HM fool is showing now… and that is why he lost 49-0 because his self righteous nincompoop brain was shut tighter than a claptrap vice in freeze mode.
26 Aug 2012, 22:07 pm
White never picked an out-an-out fetcher for Boks, and they won the RWC and the 3N, his ethos, like the ABs is that all forwards should fetch and that a bigger player was better than an equivalently talented smaller one, and he’s 1st choice was Burger who won IRB player of the year and was phenomenal in his pomp. White was always ready to received external input, far more so than most of the ppl on this site and any previous coach. He had intimiate knowledge of SA rugby players and was extremely astute, let us give thanks and praise..
26 Aug 2012, 22:11 pm
Argentina DREW with the Boks!!
Flipping Hec
Bet you are all sweating now!
26 Aug 2012, 22:17 pm
White was and is so full of himself he was fucked up down the tubes staring his one possible saving grace of pulling a WC fluke out the fire was his last hope at any redemption of a totally bereft legacy of 49-0 and wooden spoon x 2 in the 3N
That why his one and only hope was to rope in a strategist from outside of his closed lost bewildered set of circumstances .. and Eddy Jones saved his arse.. without EJ White was an absolute goner.. and he knew it only too well..
I watched as Eddy took over the coaching entirely through the WC and prior.. White wore the blazer and latched onto Eddy’s arm.. Eddy did all the hands on coaching.. White collected the accolades…
Beside White is a bit of a prick.. but that beside the point.. his actual coaching ability has improved in recent times since the WC but his personality still pretty much the same..
White got lucky.. Eddy saved his backside because through 2006 and 3N 2007 White was absolutely nowhere even though he had the cream of Bulls and Sharks youth policy players who were brought to scratch through Campese and Louden input and coaching filling his stable
26 Aug 2012, 22:19 pm
@gunther-882:
Never thought you think of Joe in that sense
He married a sports illustrated swimwear model though.
Marzaan Kalis (one L, not related to Jacques)
So you have serious competition, lol.
26 Aug 2012, 22:22 pm
So who saving Jakey’s arse now? gdam there alot of saving go on – its amazing.
you think it is the shoe polisher at brumbies that got anything to do with it?
EJ did not chance anything, the only change was enforced through injury in that Frans Steyn was picked over JdV at 12, through injury, a position that was an eye-opener to every successive coach who was picking him at 10 or 15, whether the decision to play him at 12 was White’s or EJ, it is kudos that JW made the final decision to do so and/or to take the advice to do so.
No man is an island, not in anything, the smartest surround themselves with the right ppl, i dont think old sir clive had any of white’s rugby nous, but he did know how to surround himself by a team, white learnt that from woodward, as he picked up various things from different ppl – so no i dont think he was close-minded at all, quite the opposite.
He was a tad convervative imo, but some of these guys also make for v good coaches with good results – SA pretty much been NZs only oppo over last decade, and in fact over sweep of history generally.
26 Aug 2012, 22:25 pm
You seem like quite the groupie there Robbo.
26 Aug 2012, 22:30 pm
@gunther-891:
He knows this stuff!! Bizarre
26 Aug 2012, 22:38 pm
It seems that I am not the only one worried about the Straeuli-direction Meyer is taking the Boks in. Meyer must fight his instincts
By: Rob Houwing, Sport24 chief writer
Cape Town – Five matches into his tenure as Springbok coach, and already Heyneke Meyer finds himself at something of a crossroads.
The bravery, or otherwise, of his response could go a significant way to defining his era in the hot seat, however indecently early it may seem to be judging him so intensely.
Such is life in his unforgiving position, let’s face it.
South Africa started well under him: there were some very promising elements to the successive, quickly series-sealing victories first up against England in Durban and Johannesburg respectively.
His new-look Boks (and we mustn’t under-estimate, in fairness, the extent to which he has been forced to re-assemble the team) combined crunching forward power and commitment with good hints of ambition out wide and willingness to counter-attack attractively in those matches.
But instead of only cranking things up a notch, the last three Tests – which have yielded only one further win despite an unbeaten record tenuously remaining intact – have seen only regression in many ways.
That, quite obviously, is substantially worrying.
Meyer is a likeable man, of good character and sound first-class coaching track record, if perhaps revealing just an excessive hint of robotic disciplinary habit and a penchant for over-earnestness: just what is it that he barks into that walkie-talkie during games, all the while looking as though he is about to crumple into some degree of nervous breakdown?
Rome wasn’t built in a day, and from an era of deep depression in Bulls country he slowly dragged that mighty union out of domestic depths and into a phase where they began to even routinely boss Super Rugby – admittedly aided by the presence of some of the most iconic on-field figures in South African rugby history.
The trouble with being Bok coach is that patience isn’t afforded in doses nearly as generous.
Supporters of our national team want sparkle and conquest today, tomorrow, yesterday, and in the next three and a half minutes too.
It has been forever thus.
Meyer finds himself in the firing line, then, only a few months into his reign… and significantly even before he has locked horns with either of South Africa’s toughest foes, New Zealand and Australia.
The similarly unconvincing latter nation, incidentally, hang onto No 2 slot in the IRB rankings because of the Boks’ failure – er, and then some – to put away Argentina by more than 15 points in Mendoza on Saturday.
Of course you get plenty of absurd, emotional over-reaction at times like this. Quick check: Meyer’s Boks haven’t actually lost yet, for goodness’ sake!
Also to consider is that he has been bedevilled by injuries to the very type of players who should be his core personnel in this post-Smit, post-Matfield, post-Du Preez sort of landscape – his “new old-guard”, if that makes sense.
Men in that category include Schalk Burger and two who started under his tenure but have since also been cruelly sidelined, Bismarck du Plessis and JP Pietersen.
Both earned good votes for various phantom World XVs penned worldwide after the June Test window period, let’s not forget that, and for the moment are desperately inconvenient absentees, only making a transitional Bok outfit more vulnerable than they would like to be.
There is also a case for saying it is easy to put yourself in, say, Nick Mallett’s (admirably animated, nevertheless) punditry shoes in the relative haven of SuperSport’s studios, having a right old go at the Boks from afar.
But then again, much of what Mallett, who has been there and done that as a title-winning and record-breaking Bok coach, said by way of post mortem after the Mendoza snore-fest from the South Africans just sounded so much more honest, pin-point and pro-active than the verdict from Meyer himself.
The incumbent spoke of such things as “improving our mental toughness” and “training harder” by way of remedy for the all-too-obvious torpor from Saturday’s Boks.
Mallett was far more interested in game-plan considerations which — dare I say? — the majority of us also favour placing under the microscope with great, great urgency.
I just fancy that the time has come, quicker than he would have liked it to, for Meyer to wrestle his own philosophy, which is geared around stability in selection, staunch adherence to “structure” and a pretty low-risk mindset by his players.
Those can, of course, be fruitful qualities in sport.
Can be… only there are strong signs at present that such a formula, especially so stringently applied, simply won’t cut it against the planet-leading All Blacks, who are not exactly averse to physicality themselves but combine it, tellingly, with wonderful cut and thrust and amazing skill-sets across the park.
I’ll tell you one thing, for starters, which won’t earn me any admiring cheques in the post for ingenuity: if South Africa were to repeat Mendoza by fielding two such blunt, lopsidedly “direct” instruments as Willem Alberts and Jacques Potgieter in the same loose trio against the up-tempo New Zealanders, they will get hammered.
Somehow it just seemed like a tactic straight from the Straeuli template of turbulent years gone by.
The Boks tried to take down the rugged, revved-up Argentineans in their own den with heavy emphasis on “stampkar” resources yet (with apologies for borrowing another delightfully expressive Afrikaans-ism), largely only got out-bliksemed anyway.
And where are they when that happens? Rather up the creek without a paddle, it suspiciously seems.
Smart rugby people often insist, too, that the makings of a successful and simultaneously vibrant team come in the form of appropriate selection in the “eight, nine, ten” jerseys, where so much of the play is made or at least heavily influenced.
The Boks are currently beset by a sad absence of nous and X-factor in those departments, to put it bluntly – a situation that is impeding them more collectively.
Meyer has to act decisively: how many more danger signals, ahead of the away-and-home challenges against Australia and New Zealand, does he need?
The last three Tests – Port Elizabeth, Cape Town and now Mendoza – have been cheerless and bankrupt for the majority, I confidently submit, of Bok supporters.
Will the coach have the courage to act decisively?
It may well be in his best interests, although he will be grappling his instincts all the time as he does so.
26 Aug 2012, 22:39 pm
@carol-892:
I do not know Sam Mendes though
26 Aug 2012, 22:42 pm
Without Jones White would have picked Wynand Olivier for 12 and not gone with Steyn.. it was Jones who gave White sufficient courage to chance his arm and play Steyn
but that still beside the point.. White inherited players put through a revitalized SA rugby nursery by Bulls and Sharks structures through Australian coaching techniques in Campese and Louden and that why in 2007 Sharks and Bulls contested the S12 final.. they were the top 2 teams n the southern hemisphere and the world then.. and even so White managed to come stone last in the 3N two years consecutively with those very same players..
White was a poor coach who’s real international credit was below 50% if you compare to top 5 playing nations world wide
vs NZ, Aus, Ireland, France, SA lost far more than they won under White..
so fetchers or no fetchers Whites real rugby brain was very limited and his style of rugby Boks are still playing today.. something they have not managed to shake off since Streauli.. his play without the ball defense wins games kicj chase rugby is same garbage rugby that HM is sticking with and Boks have been LOSING under since 2009 hand over fist..
White has since got with the program.. his FIRST names on his team sheet at Brumbies were Hooper a Luke Watson carbon copy and he just begged borrowed and stole Pocock to join his crew.. so for somebody who reckons he only needs fetchers to fetch beers from his fridge he’s done a compete 180 degree swing around.. and his outright hypocrisy stinks to high heaven..when his philosophy back in the day was fetchers were an absolute no no…
Its ironic that Pocock made Burger his bunny at the 2011 WC when some reckon Burger was the fulcrum of the Bok attack .. yet Pocock the fetcher beat Burger the hulk hands down.. time and time and time again.. and was the thorn in Boks attempts with Burger leading the charge and getting done EVERY time at the breakdown … and so same with Brussow when it mattered for Boks in 2009…
so much for a coach who supposedly knows his oats around the inclusion or exclusion of open side specialists.. of which Burger most definitely never was one…
26 Aug 2012, 22:43 pm
Jones?
since when Jones been the groot magga of all things rugby?
how many world cups EJ won? just who been saving who?
you think 49-0 was a biggie, how does red 93-3 results go down?
26 Aug 2012, 22:55 pm
off wiki –
“In 2005, the Wallabies lost seven straight games and at the end of the Wallabies European tour had lost eight of their last nine matches. On 2 December 2005 whilst having two more years left on his contract was terminated as the Wallabies head coach.”
“The Queensland Reds in 2007 finished bottom of the Super Rugby table and had only managed two wins the entire season. Injury spells meant Jones at times was to do without up to 8 regulars to his starting team, including the loss of influential Wallabies fullback Chris Latham even before the season started. Jones hinted that he would probably never coach in Australia again, thus potentially closing the door on his long held ambition to return as coach of the Wallabies.”
you can edit and spin anything any way, rugby at that level, unless u the ABs, got more more to do with injuries than anything else, injuries screwed stormers this year, Boks in 2006 and 2010 under JW and PdV respectively, and reds under EJ in 2007
26 Aug 2012, 22:56