Meltdown in Mendoza
26 Aug 2012
MARK KEOHANE writes South Africa’s lack of leadership in the forwards was exposed in Mendoza, as was the naivety of a pack that is unfortunately a shadow of the beasts who have worn the jersey in the past five years.
Individuals will get blamed and given the South African way it will be provincial specific, but this is not a performance of individual blame but of collective calamity in that the newbies to Test rugby were not equipped to deal with an Argentinean side that scrapped, clawed and fought for a historic first draw against the Springboks.
The lack of a specialist opensider was obvious in that there was no counter to the Pumas love for a group gathering around the ball on the floor. Heyneke Meyer said any player can fail once but there isn’t place for a second failure at Test level. His words will be put to the test because certain players are not up to Test standard and when the occasion called for heroes to emerge all we got were imposters in a green jersey.
Perspective is necessary to appreciate the vulnerability of the Bok pack, in terms of experience, impact and influence. Bismarck du Plessis is colossal and Adriaan Strauss will need grander efforts to offer an impersonation. Andries Bekker, forever the next Victor Matfield, has neither the confidence nor the brilliance to match the Bok legend, Jacques Potgieter is no Schalk Burger, Willem Alberts looked out of sorts in that selected loose-trio and for the days of a back five of Bakkies Botha, Matfield, Burger, Smith and Danie Rossouw.
There was no calmness in a frenetic opening 30 in which the Pumas were going to deliver the passion of a nation’s rugby history, given the occasion. The limitations of the Pumas meant they could only lead by 10 points at half-time despite the majority of the ball, the rub of the green and the home ground advantage.
The Boks did not deserve anything from this match, but they got plenty when it comes to a reality check. I will never understand the nonsense about not selecting foreign based players because they are not playing Super Rugby or in a development Currie Cup competition.
This match cried out for the experience of a Botha, a Joe van Niekerk and a few more who on a weekly basis star in Europe.
The pack were intimidated, they were out of their depth and they were bullied. It was embarrassing.
Still the Boks should have sneaked it when Morne Steyn missed a penalty with a few minutes to go. It was England in Port Elizabeth all over again and Steyn obviously will be the target of abuse. His job is to kick goals and when he doesn’t he stands to be judged.
Young players will be wiser and tougher for the experience but I don’t buy an argument that suggests you go to Argentina for a learning experience. Too many kids were grouped with too many provincial players in the guise of a Bok Test pack – and the results were a humiliation.
Meyer picked the side and he takes the pains, as he does the plaudits when it goes right.
The backs can only ever threaten when the Bok forwards rule and the lack of potency made for an ugly 80 minute viewing experience. Too lateral, too isolated and with no momentum. These backs were not going to find any glory in Mendoza.
Frans Steyn, individually, was strong but he was the exception to a performance that is a reminder of the quality of Springboks that went to the World Cup compared to the mediocrity of what was produced in Argentina.
The hosts have beaten Australia previously, beaten France and in recent years been a minute away from beating the All Blacks. The shorter and narrower pitch did not help, but it did expose a team that failed to adapt to the intensity and mongrel of the hosts.
It was a humbling experience for those of us who watched, but it will forever be a humiliating one for those who played. Not so the boys from Argentina.
987 Comments
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26 Aug 2012, 12:38 pm
if Potgieter led the breakdown stats yesterday and was our best contributor to ball retention and collision contesting then no wonder Argies cleaned the floor with these HM one dimensional skop jag ja broer robots..
HM is LOST.. worse than White ever was and that is saying something CHRONIC about where he ought to be.. seeing all the BB Ja Broers are still convinced he’s the heilige messiah..
26 Aug 2012, 12:39 pm
You could always bring back Bees. That would sort the opposition out I suppose. Just tell him they stole his credit card and he’d be all over them. Worth a shot.
26 Aug 2012, 12:39 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-493:
i said fouche is on the bok radar yesterday during the game on the bulls thread.
seriously, people aren’t seeing it because of stupid hangups but that boy’s game has grown incredibly.
definite bok flyhalf and is probably the most physical flyhalf the bulls have had in the last 10 years imo.
26 Aug 2012, 12:41 pm
492…ironically i agree that is why you need a specific phyisical build all most all the time.
By your logic, everyone should be able to take lineout ball as well.
26 Aug 2012, 12:41 pm
@fitz1ella-495: Problem i have is not Etsebeth, infact i thought he had a good game,
Furie is not a good hooker, irrespective of what you say, Bekker is not playing good rugby, plaay Kruger with etsebeth, good lock comebo,
26 Aug 2012, 12:42 pm
@saru1983-499: So the eight Burgers in the pack would gouge their way to victory leaving the opposition eyeless. Who the **** is Janties???
26 Aug 2012, 12:43 pm
@fitz1ella-501:
you dont throw the baby in the bath water skop, what would be the point.
change the whole team? change the whole coaching staff?
no, you identify what is you are doing wrong and you fix it.
26 Aug 2012, 12:43 pm
@Muttonbird-506:
26 Aug 2012, 12:45 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-503: What did Baxxies do in his career apart from bring shame upon the Springbok name?
26 Aug 2012, 12:45 pm
Korporaaltjie,you should not be smoking weed on a Sunday or any other given day in your case.Potgieter,the best player?I only saw him flying into tackles like he was playing beach rugby.Seriously mate,take off that blue-tainted glasses.
26 Aug 2012, 12:46 pm
@Muttonbird-509:
you are such a mutton bird, aren’t you….
26 Aug 2012, 12:46 pm
Etsebeth taking most of the ball is the problem…
26 Aug 2012, 12:48 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-511: Can you terll me. He was a cheapshot merchant of the highest order. Very dim in the head and dangerous to smaller players. Rugby is better with him gone from the game.
26 Aug 2012, 12:49 pm
French got Picamoles and Harrindoqai. Samoans got the Tuailagis. WHite’s picking that steamroller no 8 at the brumbies. The blinsider, the big hitter. Tho nowadays alot of no 8 also picked to do that.
zero finesse, but all about go-forward today, whether you like it or not.
26 Aug 2012, 12:49 pm
510….i didn,t make up the stat thanks.
Where was kolisi yesteray by the way….getting owned by the lions at newlands.
26 Aug 2012, 12:50 pm
@sharks_lover-505: Fourie is best hooker in SA behind Bismark.. they BOTH bring mongrel in spades to the team which was distinctly absent yesterday with NO Brussow, NO Bismark and NO Kolisi present.. ALL the mongrel was GONE.. Fourie and Elstadt and Kolisi in would bring an extra 50% mongrel automatically … CC is NOT their ceiling.. but CC is definitely some of HM’s picks ceiling by what is plainly visible by definition…
All these wanting soft athletic poefie boy hookers.. that what you got.. Strauss, Smit, Burden, Liebenberg (who at least puts some mongrel into his attention – but nowhere near as ferocious and fiery as Fourie)
Sp no mongrel in the ranks yesterday which left for Hougaard, Alberts and Etsebeth to provide all the attrition at the breakdown.. and then some schmucks tell me Potgieter was busiest at the breakdown.. that beggars belief.. Potgieter was absolutely NOWHERE exactly where he’s been since Meyer introduced him as Boks next savior at the coalface…
26 Aug 2012, 12:50 pm
For the boks to draw with Argentina is just deplorable, the issue Saturday was that, the boks were outplayed technically, the bully was bullied, and couldn’t stand up. The gameplan has been questioned before Meyer became bok coach, the boks under pdv from 2009 were playing Meyer rugby, in 2010 it lost its novelty. So the bok fans wanted snore out, well he’s out, and the bok fans said they want the great redeemer, Meyer, well here he is and the boks are going to get what’s coming frequently!
26 Aug 2012, 12:50 pm
514….and i bet if jake white had pierre spies in his squad he,d be picking him at 8.
Go figure
26 Aug 2012, 12:50 pm
I mean that was Baxxies M.O. wasn’t it? To intimidate the smaller player in the opposition. Never picked on someone his own size if I recall correctly. Into God too, wasn’t he?
26 Aug 2012, 12:52 pm
517…was losing to scotland deplorable
26 Aug 2012, 12:54 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-518: Pierre’s piece cannot continue, surely. He’s a one man marketing campaign for steriods and protein drinks and that about it. Clearly not interested in rugby nor the Bokke.
26 Aug 2012, 12:55 pm
@cab-500: How many carries does a ball carrier need to make to perform his job admirably?
And what percentage of his time is used to fulfil other functions, eg support on offense or making tackles on defense?
Just playing 4 or 5 ball carriers in the pack for the sake of having those options is a poor selection philosophy IMO, as they do not carry the ball as often, especially not in a kick-chase gameplan where you play more often without the ball. I’d have two or three primary ball carriers in the pack, and go for a more balanced loose trio with a greater skillset.
This trio should include a player who makes 15+ tackles a game and targets the breakdown to slow down opposition ball. Brussow.
Did you see how the big Potgieter struggled to defend around the fringes of the scrum? He was too slow off the mark.
26 Aug 2012, 12:56 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-518:
maybe tho im not so sure anymore, spies should be doing all those things, he has unmatched physical qualities in terms of sheer explosiveness, but he’s got a winger’s kop, not a crashbang steamrolling ballcarrier. fokmaarvoort.
26 Aug 2012, 12:56 pm
Kolisi, Josh Strauss, Vermeulen, Elstadt, PSdT, Kruger, Stander, A. Botha, Deysel
all better ball carriers and crunch time ball breakers than either of Potgieter, Coetsee, Daniel, Spies, Kankowski…
and Brussow, Stegman, Kolisi, possibly Minnie are better open side options than Coetsee or Daniel
26 Aug 2012, 12:57 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-507: Its pretty obvious to identify that HM is wrong and needs to be changed. He only has one vision on how the game is to be played and it is so basic, its pathetic. The Boks are so limited whilst trying to play to his gameplan. Boks have been so one dimensional for years now, a coaching revolution needs to take place Big Time!
26 Aug 2012, 13:00 pm
@fitz1ella-524: Your totally right. Great potential in South African rugby right now, but with this prat with his tunnel vision in charge it will be another wasted generation.
26 Aug 2012, 13:00 pm
523, i would bet my house that jake would have spies in his starting 15, weather it be 7 or 8 would be the only debate.
26 Aug 2012, 13:00 pm
I see the AB vs Bokke game is at Soweto where the Abs got the famous lost boot victory in 2010. Glad it’s not in Rapetown which I hear is dangerous at night.
26 Aug 2012, 13:01 pm
Who is this muttonbird fckwit……
26 Aug 2012, 13:02 pm
According to Meyer the Boks gameplan is based on extreme physicality.To put it mildly:the Boks got beaten up at their own gameplan.With no plan B to counter the Argentines,Heyneke entertained us with his histrionics in the coaches box.That is no way how a Boks coach should behave in front of an international audience.
26 Aug 2012, 13:03 pm
@willievz-522:
yeah i dont think u should measure it or necessarily over use it, but the fact is test match rugby as u know is tighter than s15 that is tigher than CC, and in fact test rugby has got even tighter with less space with modern defences, so these guys are the now must-haves more than ever, perhaps even more valuable than your flyhalf generals of old. because of their physical and mental abilties they also ideally suited for the big hit in the tackle – Willie O the greatest exponent. in short, they give you go-forward momentum from which all else comes, including the lipozanos and their offloads and the backs.
agree the pack needs balance, you dont need 5 of them but you certainyl need more than one, and you also need fire so as not to be dominated physically or psycholigical, alberts is a quiet clean yster, but you need a bit of the mongrel from elstadt, the only enforcer in SA, he is not a ballcariier, but massive hits on defence, you dont want to be running at either alberts or elstadt. these defensive hits also change momentum, remember Os, the whole game coulkd change, bismark creates momentum, he’s no longer there, we down another tight carrier (and fetcher and mongrel).
26 Aug 2012, 13:04 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-520: what you defusing HM’s pathetic FAIL yesterday to a similar pathetic FAIL by Matfield and PdV when they ALSO played one dimensional one track moronic archaic Bulls Brand rugby in 2010 to Lose to Scotland just as they did yesterday to LOSE to Argentina..?? (yes it was a loss saved by a fluke charge down that by chance saved some immense fck’d up blushes..)
Meyer got only providence and his fairy godmother to thank for Steyns charge down try.. else it was a Bok thrashing by a bunch of no name amateurs
Meyers selections are poor and his game plan is non existent and WORSE than PdV.. this archaic dumbfounded THICK Bulls brand kick chase rugby goes back to the DARK ages of JW and Streauli rugby.. and HM is entrenching it Further into the dark recesses of these players subconscious..
Its a sure bet FAIL.. and he gonna keep on failing if that how he portends to want to play this game.. bot Aussie and NZ will THUMP him…
26 Aug 2012, 13:05 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-529: Oh, hi there. I joined this forum in 2010 when the Bokke were bigging themselves up and I fed off the likes of HG and KK and I’m here to put pressure on SA fans. The Rugby Championship is heating up and the mighty ABs are on their way. You worried?
26 Aug 2012, 13:06 pm
@fitz1ella-516: are you mad? Fourie has a very skeef eye – as in brokeback skeef. With him throwing at the lineouts you can gurantee that the Boks will never win any throws.
26 Aug 2012, 13:09 pm
stats cannot measure momentum,
you can lean on a ruck or you can smash into it and counter-ruck, you can half-tackle many people with other players helpin you or drive an oppo ballcarrier back in the tackle giving your team momentum and a massive psycholigical and moral boost, you can be measured to carry (or run) 100m all on the wing or at 1st reciever or making 10m through hard heavy traffic giving your team momentum when its hardest to get.
26 Aug 2012, 13:11 pm
This is only the beginning. We’ll probably lose 3 from the next 4 RC matches if not all of them, playing like we did last night.
What will Keo be like then???
Well, if Tarzan has the best stats of all the forwards, he will most definitely start again on Saturday.
O VOK!!!
26 Aug 2012, 13:11 pm
the reason for the Bulls and Boks success in their pomp and prime, was always incorrectly attributed to kick-chase, when it fact it was the dominance of their pack (Gurthro, Bakkies, Danie) that laid the platform and later Bismarck and Beast.
26 Aug 2012, 13:13 pm
If White would play Spies in his Bok team then he’s way thicker than even I give him credit for.. ANYONE playing Spies in a bok team is THICKER than Gorgonzola cheese on a pastrami sandwich..
The past 5 years Boks have played Spies, Smith, Burger, Brussow, Kankowski in the back row..
The ONLY times we were successful was when Brussow played at 6.. those were the ONLY games Boks won ANYTIME against NZ or Australia and this ended in 2009
Throughout 2010 and 2011
boks played the following players religiously
Spies, Smith (when not injured), Burger, Kankowski, (and couple games with Flouw or Brussow when not injured)…
Matfield, Botha, Roussouw
Du Plessis / CJ, Smit, Beast / Steenkamp
and boks record throughout this period under these players read
Played NZ 5 – Lost 4
Played Aus 6 – Lost 5
9 losses from 11 starts.. and this don’t count losses to France and Ireland with same personnel at EOYT 2010 either.
Spies is one overrated PASSENGER and ANY coach gonna play Spies as his starting No.8 is going to LOSE.. just like Boks have LOST every time they played him the past few years and counting..
26 Aug 2012, 13:15 pm
you can commit 1 or 2 players half-heartedly and let others enter in slowlyt to free up the ball or pile in en masse to clean out and free up the ball instantly.
these things cannot be measured – but they more important even than scrums and lineouts won.
26 Aug 2012, 13:22 pm
@Transformation-417: Blue Bulls rugby for all
honestly the prospect should be pretty scary for Cheetahs, Lions and Sharks supporters whose teams like to play expansive exciting rugby.
26 Aug 2012, 13:28 pm
@cab-537:
Exactly Cab. It was their domination in the forwards that gave them the opportunity to play the way they want. Whether to kick and chase or to run with the ball.
On the international scene, the Boks will not dominate the opposition up front and therefor won’t be able to enforce their game plan on the match.
I said it last week, the days where the Bok forwards were so much bigger than the opposition, is a thing of the past. Everybody goes to the gym nowadays, drink their supplements etc. So, when you are more or less even amongst the forwards, you need something extra to pull you through.
We don’t have that something extra at the moment and as long as His Meyerness continue on his path, we’re not likely to get it anytime soon.
What does it say about our players’ rugby intelect when they see that the Argies commit 5/6 players to the ruck yet we continue to commit only 2/3 players and get cleaned out every time and turn the ball over?
26 Aug 2012, 13:29 pm
Right now Meyer’s team has got about FOUR international class players with ballas rearing to go
Bismark (injured)
Etsebeth
Alberts
Hougaard
on fringes we have
Beast
Coetsee
F. Steyn
Pietersen
and maybe Daniel off bench perhaps putting their hands up as international contention options
that is not enough fire and adrenalin through the ranks to trouble AB’s in ANY dimension.. HM is going to have to scour his conscience and realize he needs players like Brussow, Stegman, Fourie, Elstadt, Kolisi, Vermeulen and perhaps Kruger, Deysel, Stander, Botha to UP the attrition at the collision and breakdown by at least another 50% than what was sadly lacking yesterday..
and it AIN’T going to be coming from either of Spies or Potgieter.. absolutely never.. no sirree…
at this rate he’s staring a loss to Australia in Perth in the face.. I dunno how he will survive the cataclysm if that comes to pass.. but the way he’s heading Aus gonna take him out in Perth with these numb skulls he’s doting on for his one dimensional archaic non evolved game plan…
26 Aug 2012, 13:30 pm
what didnt we have v argentina?
momentum. nada, zero, zip. alberts and beast not enough, they not enough for the sharks, and they certainly will not be enough for the boks, complement their strengths with players from the cape, and look for some variety from brussow and attacking players outwide.
26 Aug 2012, 13:31 pm
when burger comes back the boks wont need a coach
26 Aug 2012, 13:33 pm
@sharks_lover-421: yep! meyer wants ALL the franchises to play his supreme gameplan!
26 Aug 2012, 13:33 pm
540…the blue bulls rugby scored more tries and finished above those sides on the superlog
Thks
26 Aug 2012, 13:34 pm
all the spies knockers on here should be clear that when he was on steroids he was a very good player breaking tackles and he had great speed.
26 Aug 2012, 13:34 pm
@saru1983-544: Yeah, that’s going to work well. The average Jaap is dim to start with so a decent coach is essential.
26 Aug 2012, 13:35 pm
@nama1-541:
i dont mind if we attack, in fact i would love it if we attack, but meyer is right about one fundamental thing, which is that the collisions need to be won, this is momentum, you cannot win collisions with players like andries strauss, bekker, potgieter, spies and kanko – and we have players better equipped to fetch and win collisions than these players.
Once you have mometum, you can run, you can kick, or you can perform bollemakiesises, makes fkall difference, look at the stormers they concentrates on defense and still came top (they would have won if theyd attacked with the players they had and less injuries to their momentum generators i.e. vermeulen).
26 Aug 2012, 13:36 pm
@saru1983-547: Yes there was that one season in 1492 that he had a decent game. Not much since then though.
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