Keep the faith
27 Aug 2012
RYAN VREDE writes that the Springboks’ performance in Mendoza was woeful but it is premature to make absolute judgements about Heyneke Meyer’s aptitude.
A draw, and the manner thereof, against Argentina was inexcusable. Meyer said as much in his post-match assessment.
It would be remiss not to credit Argentina for their industry, intensity and tactical appreciation. They were outstanding when viewed in the context of their opponents and the infancy of their Rugby Championship involvement. But this was one the Springboks botched as opposed to one they were completely overwhelmed in. They were awful, with their attacking game in particular failing to inspire.
However, the emotion-fuelled predictions of peril that soared after the final whistle and that persist are premature and unfounded. It is understandable in some ways. The level of disappointment is influenced by the level of expectation. The result, which Meyer agreed felt like a defeat, wasn’t inconceivable, but the widely held expectation was for a comfortable Springboks win. Still, it is absurd to see that result and the quality of the performance as indicative of a doomed road ahead under Meyer.
The coach has never explicitly asked for time to settle into his role, for his charges to grasp his philosophies and methods or for him to address physical, technical and mental shortcomings of individuals. But to expect him to have immediate success is unreasonable, particularly given the limited preparation time he has had with the squad, the youthfulness of his group and injuries to key and experienced players (and the unavailability of talented rookies).
With regards to the latter, the perspective here is that the absence of JP Pietersen, Bismarck du Plessis and Schalk Burger is significant. The trio are among the best in their positions in world rugby and have over 150 Test caps between them. I’ve lamented Pierre Spies’ inability to impose himself consistently on the Test stage, but he is a player I believed would thrive with his mentor at the helm, and one with a half century of caps.
Coenie Oosthuizen was an integral part of Meyer’s plan before he was injured, as was Ryan Kankowski before he opted to continue his career in Japan. Both are seasoned players and possess the ability to make telling impacts off the wood. Furthermore, Johan Goosen and Duane Vermuelen’s injuries denied Meyer their services (both would have had substantial game time) and strike one as having the technical and mental constitution to have made the transition to Test rugby relatively comfortably.
Meyer’s preferred scrumhalf, Fourie du Preez, was committed to Sungoliath in Japan. Du Preez is likely to return for the year-end tour (should a renegotiation of his contract work out as planned), but for now Meyer has a void not yet adequately filled in his absence.
I’m not an apologist for Meyer, but there needs to be perspective on the Springboks’ future under him. It is not bleak. He is different from Peter de Villiers, who was technically and tactically inept and largely squandered the player riches at his disposal during his tenure.
But how long is long enough before we can make more legitimate conclusions about him and his methods? I would say by the end of the 2013 Rugby Championship, when he would have had more than enough time to work with the players he wants, not those he was forced to turn to through circumstance.
Follow Ryan on Twitter
Follow SA Rugby magazine on Twitter
252 Comments
27 Aug 2012, 07:38 am
The Bokke need that dragon called Our Beloved Leader John Smit.
27 Aug 2012, 07:39 am
Excuses…… I’m sorry but I don’t buy this kuk.
It’s Argentina ffs.
27 Aug 2012, 07:48 am
this title sounds like the prelude to an eighties rock song / show…..
27 Aug 2012, 07:48 am
Good morning everybody,
On Saturday I posted early on the Lions/WP thread about a plane crash in Queens, NYC. Nothing further was heard on any news sites and I’ve since ascertained that it relates to an incident over 10 years old.
I was looking for info on another crash and found this one under the Google heading of: “Plane crash today.” (Mail Online)
I speed read the article, double checked the date, then posted. It was certainly not my intention to mislead or cause undue stress to anybody and I apologise most sincerley for tthe misunderstanding.
Please also see my posting on the other thread.
Thanks guys.
27 Aug 2012, 07:52 am
If we are reduced to quoting Bon Jovi song titles Ryan then it’s time to man the lifeboats.
And, as Winston Churchill said, when it comes to lifeboats I’m firmly in the Italian camp. None of this women and children first nonsense.
27 Aug 2012, 07:56 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-3:
sorry, nineties rock song / show…
27 Aug 2012, 08:02 am
@gunther-5: Living on a prayer would have been more apt.
27 Aug 2012, 08:02 am
Bunch of bull-****.
You ARE an apologist for Meyer. It’s well known that you Keo lot have a good relationship with the joker.
Jake White took over a mess and won straight away.
How funny that Matfield even suggested that Heyneke is a better coach then White. Not even bloody close.
27 Aug 2012, 08:04 am
Bismark Du Plessis
Coenie Oosthuizen
Juan Smith
Schalk Burger
Duanne Vermeulen
Ryan Kankowski
Pierre Spies
Fourie Du Preez
Johann Goosen
Bjorn Basson
Jacques Fourie
JP Pieterson
Jaco Taute
and now Siya Kolisi
All players that would almost certainly be in Meyer’s squad if fit or available.
Still… no excuses.
27 Aug 2012, 08:05 am
“But to expect him to have immediate success is unreasonable, particularly given the limited preparation time he has had with the squad, the youthfulness of his group and injuries to key and experienced players (and the unavailability of talented rookies).”
i’m sorry but the writer of this article is deluded! first of all PDV was never given a chance even tho he had been successful with under 21 team, instead the likes of this writer “bashed” him every chance they got. Now when it comes to HM, things should be different, why must he be given a chance? no he should be held to same standards.
it is clear, that his game plan does not work anymore, he should have seen this because the cracks have been forming since the England test series.
in terms of players available to him, he has a host of “FORM” players to choose from, what i mean about form players is players that have performed well during the super15 season. Instead he prefers to go with tried and tested theory by selecting all his bully (Bulls) big players.
MSteyn has not been on form, therefore Lambie should have been given the nod ahead of him, also this would have probably relived pressure from MSteyn to allow him regain his awesome form. Msteyn is a great player, but he just needs to time away from pressure there4 use Lambie for this even start Lambie and let MSteny come on second half.
So far HM has not delivered i don’t see much positive coming from him being in charge, unless he starts thinking outside the box, it will be a very long and frustrating 4 nations, hopefully he surprises us for end year tour by taking a young team with the likes of Kolise, De Joung, Aplon, Lambie, Janjies, Brussouw, Goosen
27 Aug 2012, 08:05 am
pirre spies
wtf puff?
27 Aug 2012, 08:05 am
Such Hypocrisy, PDV got slated after winning matches his substitutions were questioned the teams style of play. The way the media in general have treated Heyneke as opposed to PDV just reinforces the non-white perception that there are a different set of rules of the white people in this country. Im not saying i agree im just saying its not healthy.
27 Aug 2012, 08:07 am
Only one reasonable way to look at this.
If this had been Divvy, what would the Keo lot have said.
He’d never have been forgiven. Wouldn’t have seen out the season.
27 Aug 2012, 08:08 am
Ryan will move on to Bad Medicine if we lose to the Convicts before going out in a Blaze of Glory should we get fisted by Polynesian Morris Dancers as well.
I suspect by the end of the season he’ll be wanted dead or alive.
Life is certainly no bed of roses.
27 Aug 2012, 08:10 am
Its not about the draw, its about how we played to get the draw
Even the Stormers has more flair than the boks. Its sickening to see them play this way.
27 Aug 2012, 08:10 am
@puff-9:
Why is Juan Smiths name always mentioned as players to come back into Bok side?Including his name, great player an all, in perspective Bok sides seems a tad desperate to me.
27 Aug 2012, 08:14 am
@Redox(Original)-12: The point some of us have been trying to make. SARU, the media and many others have bent over backwards for Meyer from day 1. Everything he has wanted, he has pretty much got (unlike Divvy who only got scorn and grief from the get go).
It was embarrassing the way in which Meyer was heralded, and that before he had even selected a squad.
I have no interest in excuses…not from Meyer, not from SARU, not from journalists, not from selectors and not from Meyer’s foot soldiers.
The party starts and stops with him (and possibly his ‘at this stage’, seemingly ineffective little assistants)
27 Aug 2012, 08:15 am
@BrumbiesBoy-4:
I thought that it sounded suspiciously like a previous crash.
27 Aug 2012, 08:16 am
That’s half a squad right there.
At least ten of those players would form part of Meyer’s current ideal match-22.
27 Aug 2012, 08:16 am
The thing is that even without all those players that are either injured or unavailable, with the players we have we should have more than enough firepower to put the Pumas away by at least 15 points. We have some of the best wings in the world, yet they don’t get any ball in space. Mvovo did his best with the scraps of ball that he got. Any time we got a semblance of good ball, Morne or Kirchner or Hougaard hacks it away in the hope that we might win it back. Potgieter is not the answer, yet he is gonna be given another opportunity in the starting team, a luxury not given to Keegan Daniel. I am not a Duane Vermeulen fan, but he could be our answer at 8 until next year when Kankowski is available again. For the second test in a row when the Boks desperately needed the creativity of Lambie, he was left watching the game from the bench. Zane is also a a player that needs to be send far far far away from a green jersey, he falls in the same category as Jorrie Muller. Ludick will be the answer at fullback or even Gio Aplon.
27 Aug 2012, 08:17 am
@Fern-11:
Would be Meyer’s choice as part of squad if fit, not mine.
27 Aug 2012, 08:17 am
@Te Rangatira-16: Juan Smith will never play international rugby again IMHO. We Bok groupies need to honour our old heroes, but forget them as players for the future.
Because Meyer is a conservative fellow, I do believe if panic sets in, Bakkies, Danie, Gurthro, du Preez, and even Matfield (after his IRB regulated time out after retirement has expired) will all be pulled in….And yes, we might win one or two games with them – but then what?
Worrying times for us. (Or rather some of us….)
27 Aug 2012, 08:19 am
@Te Rangatira-16:
I am saying if Smith was fit, he’d be a shoo-in for Meyer’s squad.
But his return to top-flight rugby is looking increasingly unlikely.
A real shame.
My favourite rugby player.
27 Aug 2012, 08:20 am
hissy fits and emotions this early in the morning
27 Aug 2012, 08:23 am
this is a throwback to the STRAEULI era
the sooner we cut the cancer, the better
HEYNEKE OUT!
27 Aug 2012, 08:24 am
@KingRiaan-20:
All good points.
A little harsh on Kirchner, but I do agree he is not the long-term answer at 15.
27 Aug 2012, 08:26 am
keep the faith?
well, that may work, but you really need to keep the ball to win rugby games…
and to contest the breakdown, not get blown off it like little girls..
27 Aug 2012, 08:31 am
beast
chilliboy
jannie
etzebeth
kruger
brussouw
alberts
coetsee
hougaard
lambie
mvovo
steyn
jdv
habana
ludik
give the ball some air (not kicking air)
these players will flourish
27 Aug 2012, 08:32 am
Judge Heyneke the same way as PDV were judged.
1.
27 Aug 2012, 08:33 am
Yes, the game plan is predicatable and antiquated.
Yes, it needs to evolve.
But honestly.
How does a team play effective test rugby with such an inexperienced pack?
Beast was the most experienced Bok forward on the park with 36 tests.
Jannie and Bekker have been around a while, but the rest are newbies.
That pack will get munched by the All Blacks.
Losing the experience of Bismark and even Spies will prove telling.
27 Aug 2012, 08:33 am
Ja the article should read “Keep the Ball” not keep the faith.
We kicked it away all evening. Deserved what we got.
27 Aug 2012, 08:35 am
1. The boks were expected to win by Bonus points , home and away. at least a 20 point margin against Argentenia
2. The stormers finished top of the log in the supa 15 with the sharks in the final.
27 Aug 2012, 08:37 am
This whole article is littered with excuses,a team with Springboks depth should never resort to naming injured players as an excuse for failing to perform against a group of journey man and test rugby novices.Unfortunately Ryan has done Meyer a disservice by clutching at straws to justify the unjustifiable.What new thing has Meyer brought to the table in terms of strategy or tactics that the much maligned PDV didn’t. I suspect if PDV where in charge of Saturday’s team,we would be reading a very different article
27 Aug 2012, 08:37 am
Experience is one of a good few reasons why Brussow needs to be included if fit.
But will he have had enough/any game time before the squad flies to Australasia?
I am all for promoting talented youngsters, but they need to be surrounded by some wily vets.
Oh, and is it just me or does JDV look tired and in need of a long break?
27 Aug 2012, 08:39 am
@poppa69-27:
you are like a gremlin, boet.
what were the three rules for gremlins again?
dont feed it after midnight.
dont get it drunk.
and dont let it see daylight.
27 Aug 2012, 08:39 am
@gunther-14: Giving away your age and ‘era’ here Gunther
As am I. (And Bakkies it seems…)Then again, Bon Jovi rocked the decades.
27 Aug 2012, 08:41 am
Yup, I keep the faith…
But out of all the snot en trane a couple of things stand out:
1. Us rather arrogant Bok supporters are not giving the Argies enough credit. They were very good on Saturday.
2. Heyneke Meyer needs to realise sometimes that it is no good trying to drive a Pagani Zonda offroad like a Toyota Landcruiser… And if you have a couple of Zondas available then you got to let them do what they do best. Go like the clappers.
The Bok Zondas:
1. Keegan (Keegan is not a Land Cruiser… Adjust the game plan to allow for his talent or let him go)
2. Hougaard (Adjust or die…)
3. Lambie (Just play him or send him home… Unless he is carrying an injury, it does him no good to sit on the bench when the incumbent 10 is struggling with self-confidence or if the 15 is doing nothing special after 3 attempts)
Nevertheless I reckon both the Boks and Argies are superior to the Aussies… The Argies and Boks will win at least one, with 2 against the Wallabies an attainable goal for the Boks…
Argies won t win against the ABs but they going to give them an almighty fright especially in Argentina. Boks have a 50/50 chance of sneaking one against the Men in Black.
So this Heynek Bok steel horse has a lot of riding still to do despite the pre-ejaculations from the more foolish “supporters”… Like some of us were with the Sharks this season – standing firm while all were losing heads – I’m still going to be there with the Boks when the Bed of Roses is eventually made this season. I keep the Faith…
27 Aug 2012, 08:42 am
@puff-30:
i understand your point on experience..
but what bothers me most is the total naievty shown by heyneke
he looks like hes already cracked under the pressure, only 5 games in
a few of these guys, meyer incl need a few klappe to set them straight
a countries pride is on the line and we as fans need to see changes instead of excuses week in week out..
you cant expect to play youngster (which we have no choice in atm) but play them in a completely stupid, nonsensical tactical game and not play towards these players strengths
players like marcell coetsee, francois hougaard and keegan daniel could flourish under the riight game plan..
but expecting them to kick and chase and bash like headless chickens is just plain daft.
marcell coetsee was second in offloads in the whole super 15 comp, only behind SBW yet we dont utilise these skills at all
its pathetic planning from HM
HM OUT!
27 Aug 2012, 08:45 am
no no. Meyer said you play with the players you have. The players we HAVE cannot execute the style Meyer wants – so the COACH has to adapt the style to suit players’ strenghts, not the other way around.
That’s what he said… so he should stick to that.
27 Aug 2012, 08:47 am
This is one instance in which I am very, very sad to have had my suspicions proven correct.
27 Aug 2012, 08:47 am
Damn
Now that feckin song is gonna be in my head the whole day
27 Aug 2012, 08:53 am
Ryan, you bare clearly an idiot. Defending a **** like HM cause you guys are buddy-buddy. WTF kind of ‘journalism’ is that? How is anyone meant to take you seriously? You must be a ****-in twit if you are dumb enough to believe FDP and Spoes would have made a difference. This was not a match we botched, we were overwhelmed and if it was not for a stroke of luck, we’d have lost like we deserved. The sooner HM leaves with his tail between his legs the better for everyone. Go NM!
27 Aug 2012, 08:54 am
Only unprepared people look as nervous as Meyer did on Saturday. He is out of his depht, just like Deans is with the Wobblies.
Some coaches have a cealing at Super Rugby.
27 Aug 2012, 08:57 am
Meyer even mentioned post match that if we get quicker ball we can play super rugby!!!!!!!!!
This is test rugby Heyneke, not SR!
27 Aug 2012, 08:58 am
@poppa69-27: Fortunately, a few of us didn’t have the faith to start off with. We were prepared
So all this ‘shock, awe and bewilderment’ being shown by others who are suddenly concerned,is rather precious.
I do await the entrance of Taccy though. What with him being in tune with Meyer’s thoughts and all, his analysis should make for interesting reading
27 Aug 2012, 08:59 am
Disappointing result.
I have full faith in Heyneke’s gameplan, but I think we lack the personnel to implement it with any degree of effect at the moment. Basically, the current Boks are k*k, to use the technical term..
Hence, we find ourselves in a bit of a quandary.
Not sure what the best way forward is, to be honest.
27 Aug 2012, 08:59 am
@garth-42:
“you bare clearly an idiot”..?..
27 Aug 2012, 08:59 am
Will reserve my comment on Heyneke untill after EOYT.
But that wasnt pretty.
27 Aug 2012, 09:00 am
@Tacitus-46:
degree of effect is better stated as degree of efficiency rather.
27 Aug 2012, 09:00 am
I think we have a serious problem here. New Zealand are going to tear us a new hole and I think the ozzies going to be a tough game when it should be a easy win. I think we got the players to win and we should have won easily on saturday. Maybe its time to realise that players such as Bekker, Kirshner, Potigiter and hougaard are not up to the stand. Bekker for me is just a waste of space in the team, he is so tall he should be dominating the lines but the only place he dominates is outs Mvovo on the wing. Its time to make be decision and drop some big egos.
27 Aug 2012, 09:01 am
your spelling standards are dropping, tac.
did the game shake you that much.
27 Aug 2012, 09:02 am
@patch-50: ABs and Aussues arent that flash either.
Agreed that on current form they’d both beat us but I cant see the Wallabies especially running away with it.
27 Aug 2012, 09:03 am
@Mr Black-44: Agree with you 100% The man has incredible self belief (borderline arrogance) in terms of the Meyer ‘brand’ and his ‘successes’. Comments like: I will coach him back into form etc actually give one a pretty good idea of just how much he rates himself as a coach – which in the grander scheme of things isn’t a problem. However: when you talk a huge mental talk, that is based on rather arrogant statements, it’s fuckingscary watching the man implode in spectacular fashion in the coaches box.
The talk and actions don’t match up (and haven’t from the day he was appointed).
Journalists telling fans to keep the faith, when all we get to see is the supposedly calm, collected, mentally tough, psychological genius Meyer, falling apart: spectacularly.
Not very comforting is it?
27 Aug 2012, 09:04 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-49:
No, I mean effect.
As in, we are not achieving the effects (like gainline dominance, quick ruck ball or forward momentum) that this gameplan is designed to achieve.
27 Aug 2012, 09:04 am
The yellow bellies have waved the white flag and surrended, now for the Bokke and to break the needles 17 straight test run later this year.
27 Aug 2012, 09:06 am
@puff. exactly, i really think we need some experience in the pack. i think bizzy is a huge loss that will prove very teling if someone does not step up. I have no idea what options meyer has regarding overseas players. I am not advocating bringing in old dogs to salvage some respect in the short term. However one seasoned warrior like Dannie may be a good confidence booster for the young. i was disappointed with Jannie not stepping up against the argies. infact the pack looked competely directionless.
If brussow is fit i would use him with alberts staying at 7(his only position) And keegan moving to 8. i would have Vermulen on the bench and bring him on at 8 with daniels moving to 6 for the last 20 or so. I rate coetzee a lot and would like him to eventually take the bench seat with daniels dropping out and duan starting. I also think someone like josh strauss would be good if vermulen and brussow need more time. He is a leader and captaining the loosing lions make s you one hard nut to rattle. i think he would thrive at test level and fills the big ball carrier that meyer seeks but also adds some intellect and skill. Lambie needs to start with morne on the bench, also while our forwards are failing to generate quick ball piennar should start with hougart either starting on the wing or coming off the wood. However i have never met any of these guys nor do i have any experience in coaching. So its just my guess of how things could improve.
27 Aug 2012, 09:07 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-53:
he is human, i cant blame him.
it was a case of a mentally strong man seeing other men he expected were metally strong too, folding in the field.
he got angry and irritated and showed it clearly. this bok team needs metal strength.
lke the way bakkies of victor conducted themselves on the field, we need to see more of that.
27 Aug 2012, 09:07 am
@Tacitus-46: Well for starters: How about tweaking the fuckinggameplan to suit the strengths of the players he DOES have available?
I don’t want an advocate doing a root canal, for that one uses a dentist.
See?
27 Aug 2012, 09:07 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-53:
How do the team keep calm when the coach falls apart?
And who is the poor bugger on the other side of the walkie talkie?
27 Aug 2012, 09:08 am
I would bring back Kanko, Brussouw, Gurthro, Fourie du Preez, Danie Rossouw, Bakkies Botha and try and beef up this sorry *** lot of players known as a Bok squad at the moment.
27 Aug 2012, 09:08 am
Rugby is funny game, if T5 does not play , all the rest fails
Our T5 yes , Eben and Bekker included was useless.
Carter will look average behind such a pack
We did not steal a single line out. Locks stand more in backline /Wing, Buurman v Zyl use to say you must be able to cover the T5 with a blanket. HM would need a huge one to cover these guys than
Best is, there’s no Spies to blame, Alberts , Marcell and Pottie are the same you need varietry
27 Aug 2012, 09:09 am
Jake White,even though I dont like him much,hit the ground running and won the Tri-Nations after taking over from Rudolph,Div in his first year lost the Tri-Nations and got hammered by almost everyone without anyone asking for him to be given a chance,Why must Heyneke be treated differently from previous coaches?there is nothing special about him or his tactics that suggest we should be patient with him.The last time he ran away from Leicester Tigers,this time around,there is nowhere to run.
Meyer is a stubborn idiot,why insist on playing a loose trio of Potgieter,Alberts and Coetzee?None of them play towards the ball.The Aussies on Saturday ended up playing two opensiders to combat the All Blacks quick ball and ferocity at the breakdown,Argentina aint no All Blacks but you have to be stupid to aaproach any Test without a fetcher.
27 Aug 2012, 09:09 am
@Tacitus-54:
oh ok.
perhaps ‘any degree of effectiveness’ then.
27 Aug 2012, 09:10 am
@Mr Black-59:
he shot his bolt early and told the whole world his side had shamed the nation, bad bad move
27 Aug 2012, 09:11 am
@capebull-61:
Gurthro
Strauss (cause there’s no one else)
Jannie
Bakkies
Juandre Kruger
Coetsee
Alberts
Kankowski
Du Preez
Bench forwards to pick from:
Beast
Etsebeth
Danie Rossouw
Brussouw
I think we just need a hard edge in the pack, which is currently clearly lacking.
If it’s exectution over innovation, what’s clear is that the execution is currently k*k. Let’s get the men in that can fix what the boys stuffed up.
27 Aug 2012, 09:12 am
Poor Garf
“you clearly bare an idiot”
Has the education system failed you that badly?
27 Aug 2012, 09:12 am
@Mr Black-59:
the argentine coach.
27 Aug 2012, 09:13 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-47: Damn ‘b’
27 Aug 2012, 09:13 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-58: Bekker and Eben should do their Job and leave the wing position for Habana,
Eben did play a lot better second halve. Still not a single line out stolen, I think Bekker ‘s career is over
27 Aug 2012, 09:13 am
Good question
Who is he shouting at?
27 Aug 2012, 09:14 am
@rvanaardt-56:
I am worried about including the likes of Vermeulen and Goosen in the squad for Australasia.
They have both only just returned and still need more game time.
Plus they have no experience at test level and need to be surrounded by some vets.
Otherwise, they are not going to perform at optimim level.
Just look at Adriaan Strauss.
A fine player and definitely Bok material.
But he looked the shadow of the player he is during Saturday’s game.
This cannot be allowed to happen with Vermeulen and Goosen.
Goosen needs Du Preez on his inside.
Vermeulen needs a Burger alongside him.
27 Aug 2012, 09:17 am
@Tacitus-65: I would like to play fetcher like Brussouw, but he is out , Marcell and Alberts play the same game.
I did not see anything from Vermeulen that was exciting. CJ had great game. We have serious problem at 3 , with Jannie , he is “moeg” Werner is off, maybe look at Mujati, they rave about him in NH.
27 Aug 2012, 09:17 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-67:
I wonder if heyneke texted the argentine coach about SA player weaknesses during the game.
It happens…………
27 Aug 2012, 09:18 am
@NZINCHINA-64:
Its hard with the world in your face
Trying to hold on, trying to hold on
Faith: you know you’re gonna live thru the rain
Lord you got to keep the faith
Faith: don’t let your love turn to hate
Right now we got to keep the faith
Faith: now it’s not too late
Try to hold on, trying to hold on
Keep the faith
they are currently at 60%win ratio, a ratio that SA have managed/maintained throughout their entire rugby history..
cant understand all the fuss myself, Meyer is right up there as one of the best bokke coaches ever with that win ratio
27 Aug 2012, 09:19 am
@Mr Black-73: Play us up front, our locks stands at Wing.
27 Aug 2012, 09:20 am
@Tacitus-65:
Agreed.
But also I think there was a bit of complacency and arrogance because Boks have never lost to Argentina.
Would Boks have started with such an untried loose trio against anyone else?
Not sure why these overseas players aren’t being included, but I reckon they’d be in the mix by now if it was possible.
Expect the likes of Van Der Linde, Brussow and Deysel to take the trip to Oz n NZ.
27 Aug 2012, 09:21 am
Amazing. All focus on HM absent/retired/injured stars and total amnesia that Argentina, ffs, by far inferior side in terms of player pool and inferior in class had their own retired leaders and injured stars and still they were better side for most of the game.
No excuses whatsoever for HM and his orks.
27 Aug 2012, 09:21 am
@poppa69-74:
you would have thought he’d have been a bit more composed and kept the scolding in house to build confidence/trust with his new charges but what does he do broadcast to the whole world that they let the entire nation down, is that how they motivate in Pretoria?
27 Aug 2012, 09:22 am
@Tacitus-46: Tac Although i am one that still believes HM is a good coach? to say thaat this present squad of Boks are KAK is BS though, they have all been performing brilliantly for their respective provinces.
Also As much as i dont agree with the mass hysteria hitting every blog right now, i have to aadmit i understand whete it’s coming from though.
YOu say thee Game plan is the best?? are you serious? If so you might as well leave every Sharks out of that team as they for one have and are playihg a very different style of rugby, Ditto Cheetahs and Lions.
My point here is surely the Bok coach should be thinking National not Bulls? surely he must realise he is now coach players with different views etc? some of the teams these players come from allow the players to think on the field and express themselves on the field of play?
Again what showed was players were having to play like robots, it’s the HM or no other way, I mean lets take this last match as an example! First 40 it was Clear the Puma’s had done their homework, it was clear that they knew exactly what to expect from the Boks.
If under HM we only have this oordonder kick and chase game?? THEN THESE NAY SAYERS ARE RIGHT AND WE IN DEEP ****.
Surely early in the 2nd 40 when it was so evident we were in K@K, the coach should have used other options to him? Lambie has say on the bench for 2 weeks now with logs in his *** never mind splinters, and i am not saying Lambie should have started, but hell Lambie offers you another style of playing and that being ” keep ball in hand, running attacking rugby, running off a flat lying back line”
So fact is we had other options and the fact is the coach whwo is responsible to just keep Steyn there and kick even more, and despite what some fools have to say, it was Francois Steyns pressure and defense that earned us the charge down and the try he got to draw that match.
It is the coaches job to unify the players, it is his job to gel them as a unit, they of course all talented, but if the coach demands they all play one style and no other way and it does not work?? we wont see many wins in that way against the top teer nations.
People keep harping on how we miss Bakkies, Victor, FDup, JSmith etc?? we need to get over that, we dont have those players anymore and we need to play Styles of rugby that the players can all understand and particpate in,
OUR COACH NEEDS TO BE MORE OPEN MINDED, AT THE MOMENT HE IS COMING ACROSS AS BEING VERY NAIVE
27 Aug 2012, 09:22 am
@gunther-66: Thanks for the spelling lesson Cunther. By the way, do you know how to spell anal retentive ?
27 Aug 2012, 09:23 am
@Nils-77: you should know by now Nis, it was the ref’s fault
27 Aug 2012, 09:23 am
Where is khakibollocks he’s a big fan of the Prince if New Jersey?
27 Aug 2012, 09:24 am
Another 1000 posts of the same stuff.
Bye bye Boks!
SIYA LATER!!!!
27 Aug 2012, 09:25 am
@poppa69-81: Damn Kiwi refs again!
27 Aug 2012, 09:25 am
@sharks_lover-79: The players should fall in with the coach , not the other way around.
Pick, locks and props that are prepared to do the hard work and the rest is easy.
27 Aug 2012, 09:25 am
Ryan – the only faith I will keep is in Messiah Yeshua…
I have been saying for a few months now that this game plan of ‘direct rugby’ is archaic.
Nick Mallett, Naas Botha and Ashwin Willemse basically echoed my sentiments after that game.
It comes back to Meyer’s Afrikaner instincts of thinking that he can dominate anything on the planet physically. The reality is: at that level you cannot. Skills become a lot more important and continuity is basically what you’re after. It is for this reason that the offload in the tackle is so vital; it is the smartest way to maintain momentum/continuity.
Also, and perhaps more worrying it seems that the psychological demands of the role is beginning to take its toll. Any coach that preaches the gospel of ‘defence’ is actually confessing that its is mostly FEAR that occupies the space between his ears.
It is quite evident that Heyneke’s psychological challenges are beginning to rub off on Jean his skipper. The balance of their talk is becoming increasingly negative as fear of failure takes up a larger part of the diet.
Meyer’s failure in inject flair and creativity will be his downfall and at this stage it will only be in hindsight that he will realize that it was the Blue Bull boertjies that cost him. Horses for courses, strong ball carriers are all just rubbish to prosper Meyer’s beloved volkie.
All Blacks 45 Boks 10 is my prediction
27 Aug 2012, 09:26 am
@poppa69-81: Why’s that? Walsh has been good for the Boks, as far as I recall, they have never lost with him in charge. 11 wins and 2 draws.
27 Aug 2012, 09:26 am
@NZINCHINA-78: yep, he should have taken the PDV approach..
“No one is born a rugby player. You are born a person who becomes a rugby player and I can enhance this with warmth and reach your soul and make you realise there is life after rugby.”
still, they only have their rugby to be embarassed about now
.
27 Aug 2012, 09:26 am
@Sheriff-86:
you’ll be lucky to get 10
27 Aug 2012, 09:26 am
@Mr Black-59: The poor bugger on the other side of the walky talky?…I am going with one of the following: God, or Tacitus.
27 Aug 2012, 09:27 am
@puff I agree, there is a tendency to rush players before they are ready, A test is not that time especially when a team is playing the best in the world, away and under pressure. Do you know if Kanko is available for Australazia?
Also anybody know the actual availability of guys like dannie, guthro, bakkies?
27 Aug 2012, 09:28 am
@capebull-69: I’m not a Bekker fan, so you are preaching to the converted. But if you think our locks are the only problem, your delusion is as far gone as Taccy’s and Heynekes.
27 Aug 2012, 09:29 am
An extract from a Cricinfo opinion piece on the change of mindset in the new Proteas sums up where the Boks are under Heyneke’s reign.
“South African sport was, and in some places still is, conducted like the army in its rigidity and focus to discipline. It was not a space to be creative. It was not a space to introduce too many outrageous ideas.
It was not a space to express. It was a space to do as you had been taught because that was the way that would breed success.
If they failed, and there were times when they did, it was never the method that was at fault, only the way they were executing it.”
27 Aug 2012, 09:30 am
The 52-16 record may be beaten this year.
27 Aug 2012, 09:30 am
@Nils-87:
default option on SA supporters “why we lost card”
27 Aug 2012, 09:32 am
@Nils-77: Mate, agree with you 100%, which is why I am rather ashamed of the way a few fellow Bok ‘fans’ are attempting to cover up the glaringly obvious weaknesses Meyer has…….(and had before he was even appointed)
There simply is NO credible excuse for what was dished up in Mendoza, the week before in CT, and a few weeks before that in PE. Simple.
27 Aug 2012, 09:33 am
@poppa69-95: Ahem, to be fair, this time they know very well it’s team that played kak, coach that made dynosaur gameplan and selections, and oppo that did their homework, therefore ref moves into deep background.
27 Aug 2012, 09:35 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-96: Plus – let’s give their dues to the Argies, they played very well considering all things.
27 Aug 2012, 09:38 am
@capebull-85: Yes they should , but remember these are not school kids but professional players etc, what player they is used to playing in teams where the ball is spread will sit back happy just to be a defender?? maybe if he is lucky get to see the ball 2 times in the match???
The rest of the time the ball is just kicked away, KICK KICK KICK KICK KICK…
TRUTH IS THE OTHER TEAMS GET USED TO YOUR 1 GAME PLAN THEN YOU ARE IN TROUBLE
27 Aug 2012, 09:38 am
A mark of a good coach is when an inexperienced team punches above their weight.
Just ask Jake White and the Brumbies.
That said, consider the 2004 Springboks.
27 Aug 2012, 09:38 am
I also took note that Robbie Deans has copied the Boks’ gameplan.
27 Aug 2012, 09:40 am
@poppa69-88: Look I know P Divvy’s mouth was his hugest enemy, and he said one or 2 things that upset the Kiwis…but honestly, if you had the chance to talk to the man about rugby, I guarantee you that you would change your opinion of him.
He received far too much slack that was undeserved, and not enough credit that WAS deserved.
An orator – NO. But a loyal man, passionate student of the game with some pretty decent rugby ideas – YES.
Regardless of what many of you may thing, the man did admirably well, all things considered – (lack of support all round).
He had one fault (and even that was forced on him by a partisan Bok public): He didn’t have the self belief to ignore the media, critics and fans, and forge ahead with his own Bok blueprint.
Rugby (whether many here will admit it or not) is poorer without him – on quite a few levels I might add.
27 Aug 2012, 09:40 am
@Nils-97: my mistake, some maintain its because GH showed the argies how to cheat
27 Aug 2012, 09:41 am
Just saw that Caylib Oosthuizen has signed with the Cheetahs from the Lions for next year.
Looks like Naka will probably be shifting Coenie to tighthead then with Caylib, Nyakane and De Klerk as options for loosehead.
27 Aug 2012, 09:41 am
Imo….
ons het moeilikheid…..
27 Aug 2012, 09:44 am
@Nils-98: The Argies were fantastic, and they deserved to win the Mendoza clash hands down. A draw was a dreadful result for them. Even if Morne has kicked the winning penalty it would have been an undeserved and hollow victory for the Boks.
The Argies deserved to win full stop.
But the sh y te the Boks dished up, should not and will not be excused. A loss or draw to quality opposition is no insult, if you play the game…
27 Aug 2012, 09:44 am
Cheetahs have exciting backline for next year.
9. Van Zyl 10. Goosen 11. Ruhle 12. Ebershon 13. Sadie 14. Smit 15. Le Roux
Their front row looks impressive enough with Nyakana, Strauss and Oosthuizen.
They have a bunch of useful loosies in Brussow, Floors, Viljoen, Labuschagne, Van Der Walt, Prinsloo and Raubenheimer. They just need to get the right mix.
Now sign some locks!
27 Aug 2012, 09:44 am
The reason HM is given more of a chance than Divvy is not that he is white, it is because he has a proven track record. When he got the job, he was largely considered the best for the job. No one even knew who Divvy was when he got the job.
That said, what is worrying for the Springbok fan is that we drew to the Argies playing with an outdated gameplan and the wrong personnel. Had we drawn to the Argies trying to play a brand of rugby that was adventurous and creative, HM would have been forgiven as it takes time to learn a new style of play. Truth is that we drew playing a style of rugby that we’ve played since Jake White.
Lastly, in my limited coaching experience, I was involved with a school that simply was not expected to win a game. Our team did not have the players to make any gain line with the ball. The solution was to kick up and unders and to the corners for territory, hoping to turn the ball over and score. It worked for some games.
But we were a kuk school with kuk players. Why are the Boks playing similar rugby?
27 Aug 2012, 09:45 am
@Staal-105: heaps big trouble.. A4Y’s worth
27 Aug 2012, 09:45 am
@Staal-105: Goeie more yster
27 Aug 2012, 09:47 am
The reason for picking Peter de Villiers ahead of Heyneke Meyer is now proven. What a rubish coach!!!
27 Aug 2012, 09:48 am
@poppa69-95:
Do you enjoy our pain?
27 Aug 2012, 09:49 am
Our biggest problem is moving on from the gameplan of the last 8 years where we relied on two things, lineout dominance (which was easier back then because NZ’s line out was piss poor) and Fourie Du Preez. Our FH’s have not been able to cope without him, we need to play our rugby of 10 not 9.
We need to be more creative and sadly Meyer is not that man. I believe if Meyer was coach in 2008 we would have done better, but I think maybe PDIV would have been a better option now.
27 Aug 2012, 09:50 am
I will keep the faith when Meyer starts making the big calls: 6. Brussow 9.Pienaar 10. Lambie/Janjes/Goosen 3. WP Nel
27 Aug 2012, 09:50 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-92: Why is it with you, no one can have an opion other than yours , if we do were are idiots or dilusional. Who made you the know it all ?
I said that uot T 5 did not perform and that is a major part of the problem. Talking about structures , Stormers was best6 example of this,There is not coach that will coach without a structure. I am not saying I like it , but to blame HM for using structure is crazy , they all have it.
AC was told all year long change he did not want to , rest is history.
HM has not lost with his structure , do you think he will change it now ? I think he should , but like any other coach will he ?
27 Aug 2012, 09:51 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-106: I agree with every word you said here.
27 Aug 2012, 09:54 am
@Bok fan-114: They are injured. HM hates losing more than what he likes his pride.
27 Aug 2012, 09:55 am
I’m smiling.
27 Aug 2012, 09:57 am
@Mr Black-112:
lol
Look its not good when you have issues with your team, no matter if its the players or coach, still the team. But atleast not one of our Media that i have seen called South African rugby cr@p and say that its a waste of time touring NZ until they get better.
Now that was 2010, a year after the pasting we recieved from South Africa. Now ask yourself, do all you as well enjoy our pain?
27 Aug 2012, 09:57 am
It’s a grismal day but I’m smiling.
27 Aug 2012, 09:57 am
Keep the faith in Steve Walsh, Alain Rolland and Nigel Owen
Trouble is Down Under they will be on the look out, the 2009 coop may not repeat itself there.
And then what?
27 Aug 2012, 09:57 am
@Dawn-118:
of course you are you quisling.
27 Aug 2012, 09:58 am
The solution comes down to this: players like Elton Jantjies and Bjorn Basson must get more scope. These are guys that have the x-factor.
Kamakaze players like Jacques Potgieter is not the way forward.
But it is unlikely that ‘oom en tannie’ lager mentality will change; Francois Hougaard’s only progress is the number of tattoos. Morne Steyn will never become creative and Frans Steyn will not lose any weight. Why players like JJ Engelbrecht is in the squad boggles the mind
With a surname like ‘Meyer’ the German/Dutch blood will be strong and the ‘stubborn factor’ will be high. The greater the perceived threat the higher the stubborness.
It’s not going to work I’m afraid…
27 Aug 2012, 09:58 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-102: Nice post
27 Aug 2012, 09:58 am
@Mr Black-112: indeed I do….like the vulture I am enjoying feasting on the carcass that was Bok rugby…. not much left on the bones to be honest, the flesh is still tepid and the last beats of life can be felt in the pulsating gargle of the once proud animals final heartbeat
but then, Ive always loved Argentinian style chicken
27 Aug 2012, 09:59 am
Ear to ear.
27 Aug 2012, 10:01 am
Argies eat beef you fool.
27 Aug 2012, 10:01 am
@capebull-117: Boet, maybe you are getting it maybe not, HM has a chance to get things on track, BUt for that to happen he also has to be big enough to admit his mistakes and he has to accept that he needs more than 1 game plan.
Even though im not saying his game plan is KAK, it works some times and other times NOT, surely he should work at options for the times his 1 plan does not work.
Look past the, He is a BUlls hero of the past so we just accept what he says is ok because it worked 5 or 6 years ago.
Rugby keeps evolving and rule changess have been made aplenty, HE NEEDS TO THINK OUTSIDE OF THE BOX
27 Aug 2012, 10:01 am
White also had balls.
Selected Habana out of nowhere to the Bok squad. Made a few bad calls, yes, like Henno Mentz, or bringing back Andre Snyman, but more often then not his decisions paid off.
Habana was outstanding when White pulled him out from nowhere.
Meyer hasn’t got the balls, or feel for the game, like White does.
27 Aug 2012, 10:02 am
FS backline 9. Sarel 10. Goosen 11. Le Roux 12. Ebershon 13. Sadie 14. Ruhle 15. Daniller
27 Aug 2012, 10:03 am
@poppa69-109:
@sharks_lover-110: More ou maat – slegte naweek maar gelukkig het net 1 v my spanne verloor?
27 Aug 2012, 10:05 am
@Dawn-127:
Picante de Pollo
Spicy Chicken Argentine Style
seems they couldnt get their hands on any South African beef over the weekend, so had to make do with the chickens..
27 Aug 2012, 10:05 am
@Sheriff-123: What is wrong with you, why do you have an issue with Afrikaans people , this is rugby, keep it like that or join ANCYL.
27 Aug 2012, 10:05 am
altans – slegte rugby- naweek.
27 Aug 2012, 10:06 am
HM faces a big dilemma as to how he approaches the current situation. He has unfortunately inherited a rather “green” pack and all that these guys are lacking is the experience. Under normal circumstances you would introduce the greenhorns under the guidance of more experienced players i.e. Eztebeth under Bakkies wings; Bekker under Matfield’s wings etc but you would always have a mixture of experienced palyers with teh new generation coming through.
The players he has selected certainly have the abilitiy toplay for the Boks and to perform well, its all down to combinations and teh playing “culture” as opposed to style that he adopts. If he now chooses to drop these players because of the need to achieve results he runs the risk of them losing faith in their ability completely for the future , so he has to stick to them. His best approach as suggested already would be to bring back some steel into the forwards (Bakkies/Gurthro etc) and look at his playing combinations to play to their individual strengths. I have a problem with “game plans” in that they sometimes force players to play to a style that is not natural to them and would suggest that HM looks at his selection criteria with a view to how each individuals playing strengths compliments the other players and compensates for any weakness in the other players.
On top of that he has to free these players up to play ot their natural strengths by creating an environment of trust in each other. His bollocking of the players after the game, whilst it be true, should have been done on an individual basis in private with some coaching as to what they need ot be aware of in terms of playing to their strengths and how by not doing so it affects the performanec of the others.
For instance Marcel Coetzee is not as effective when we play a game plan that allows the ball to die after every pick and drive, he is much more effective in the offload game that the Sharks play and playing him with Jacque was a disaster for the very reason that Jacques does not stay on his feet in the drive and goes to ground without commiting the opposition tacklers. The assistant tackler has to go to ground or be forced to release with no time to attack the ball which means staying on your feet long enough for your support to get there and drive the assistant tackler off.
27 Aug 2012, 10:08 am
@capebull-117: Other than Brussow who should be back soon, the rest are available. In the interim you need to play 2 hybrid flanks together which he isnt doing. Our breakdown has been moving from bearable to completely useless this whole season
27 Aug 2012, 10:09 am
M Steyn is the handbrake on any backline innovation . As long as he is there we will struggle to get optimum out of the backs….
Players that should be dropped from the squad….
1.A Bekker [ he is either injured, disinterested or just plain useless ]
2 J Potgieter….I dont understand his inclusion at all, in fact a disgrace with Kolisi available and not taken …
3. M Steyn….just cut the 1 dimensional deep laying skop en jag artist once and for all
4.J De Villiers….Stormers were far better when he was out, he looks as bewildered as the coach….
HM said he is not averse to overseas players if good enough?
Then get Guthro, F Louw and Kanko back a sap….
Vermeulen , Brussow and Goosen are absolute must haves but only on return leg as they all match shy….and FFS get Aplon and JDJ in the mix man…
HM can sort this but he is going to have to be flexible and may have to eat some humble pie with some players he snubbed.
Brussow was snubbed badly, a penalty risk? Check the amount of penalties we conceded Sat nite!
27 Aug 2012, 10:09 am
@Staal-131:
Ya my Spannietjie verloor toe teen die Bulls maar ek het dit verwag. 10 spelers uit is nit te versmaai nie, en die jong outjies doen goed, maar die een ding wat op so tyd intree by n span is wisselvalligheid in hulle spel’
Tog was die wedstryd tussen die BUlle en die Sharks n baie goeie vertooning deur alby spanne
27 Aug 2012, 10:09 am
@sharks_lover-128: Which part of my family are you from, boet?
HM has a game plan , he does not have the players to exicute it. So does he change or does he find players ?
One thing I agree the pack has to step up , I do not agree with endless up and unders , why kick with 5min left ??
27 Aug 2012, 10:10 am
@Staal-134: not sure there is a calculator in the world capable of determining that rate
27 Aug 2012, 10:12 am
Ryan quit gatkruioing man, you blaady agent!
last week you were going on: “RYAN VREDE writes the Springboks’ defensive excellence against Argentina is a greater cause for optimism than their failure to score a bonus point is cause for concern.
Personally I don’t understand the near-hysteria around the Springboks’ inability to secure five points at Newlands on Saturday. I would have deeper concerns if the Springboks had looked completely impotent and not got themselves in scoring positions.
But they did, and how they got themselves there – largely through a kick-chase method – doesn’t vex me either.”
now what?
we must accept meyer’s MEDIOCRITY because he hasn’t had time with the team against ARGENTINA?
can you tell us how experienced is the Argentine side vs our Bokke?
27 Aug 2012, 10:14 am
@Bok fan-136: I agree 6,7,8 are all the same . Balance is key,
8 Runner and good distrubtor , link with backs
6 Fetcher
7 Runner hard man
27 Aug 2012, 10:17 am
@capebull-139: The smart side of the family?
Boet we all know he has a plan, but no team will survive with just that 1 plan, and no we dont have the likes of a Bakkies anymore, all the more reason that the coach should evolve with the times,
I am not even saying kick the plan he has, just have more options that that 1
And he should not be scared to sub Morne if he is not having a great day, which seems to be the case.
If he does not want to he should raather send Lambie back to the Sharks, because i have no doubt Lambies confidence is taking a nose dive under HM right now.
Luckily the Sharks coach has stated that Lambie is a 10 and will in future not get stuffed around in having to play all over the place,
27 Aug 2012, 10:17 am
@Transformation-141: All is true , HM himself does not except the loss , lets wait and see his next move, then we will know.
27 Aug 2012, 10:17 am
@Tacitus-60: Suddenly the problem shifts from the coach to the player’s inabilities, if that’s the case, should the current coach be in the job or there was always a proviso on taking the job. Its now 3/5, Australia and NZ to come.
27 Aug 2012, 10:18 am
That was an interesting result, which should be flag of concern for the AB’s.
NZ have an historical home and away average over Argentina of
56 – 11 Home
28 – 17 Away
While SA’s record is
42.- 20 Home
37 – 20 Away
The Puma’s look to have tightened up their defense and are always a handful for the AB’s at home. So unless we can sort out our finishing, it could well be another tight affair like on Saturday against the Bok’s.
27 Aug 2012, 10:19 am
Ryan: ” I would have deeper concerns if the Springboks had looked completely impotent and not got themselves in scoring positions”
are you DEEPLY CONCERNED ryan or are you making excuses?
27 Aug 2012, 10:20 am
@capebull-133:
I have to go now but I would like to reply to you.
Son, I have nothing against people who were born into families that speak Cape-Dutch.
But you are right in saying that I have a problem with manufactured culture known as Afrikanerdom. It is that type of logic that gave us apartheid or selfish econ development at the expense of others.
With that culture comes a certain logic or mentality that as you may or may not know, is very hard to break or change. Very few people born into that can actually recognize it for what it is but there are those who do. I know several of them in person.
It is relevant in our rugby as rugby is the Afrikaners’ favourite sport. Also our coach is Afrikaner and we have a responsibility to ensure that we dont regress to where we come from. The ANC is doing enough to take us there fast.
For your info, my mother tongue is actually Cape Dutch. And so I am able to speak out against it because of my understanding of the issue.
Just like we should not allow the ANC to take us into the abyss with their politics, so we need to prevent Afrikaners to make us regress to our dark past in rugby.
I have time for ‘oopkop Afrikaners’ but I’m not seeing too many at the moment…
27 Aug 2012, 10:21 am
hell that was 1 bloody ugly performance by the Boks….
27 Aug 2012, 10:22 am
@sharks_lover-143: Good one,
I also rate Lambie , but why is it that Plum prefured the Frenchie. Lambie is in what, his 3 year and there’s still debate if he is 10 or 15. Lambie had terrible final, he seem to lack confidence.
Him along with Vermaak and others, must be released to play cc
Plum has a history with playing players all over, to the detrement of the player.
27 Aug 2012, 10:24 am
@capebull-144: Argentina has in their 26-man squad 3 player who turn out in OUR vodacom cup for the PAMPAS, the pampas and they lost JMH and when we draw with them we’re supposed to look at their inexperience?
please man..
when the played WOEFULLY in PE and drew with England meyer drew out the inexperience card and said “some of these players have never played in these (rainy) conditions”
you know what, meyer HIMSELF is inexperienced in INTERNATIONAL rugby, the sooner he acknowledges that and lose the veiled arrogance the better.
27 Aug 2012, 10:24 am
@Sheriff-148: Good day to you as well.
27 Aug 2012, 10:25 am
@puff-107:
That backline will stuff up the bok back line currently, exceptionally exciting running back line
@goodstuff-113: exactly what I said yesterday
Saru got it wrong, they didn’t make the decision in 2008 for non rugby reasons, they made the wrong decision for putting PdV with a structured team set in its ways that was unable to adapt. Meyer cannot adapt, PdV can.. the players in 2008 could not adapt so PdV changed his game plan to suit them.
Would have been better to team Meyer with the 2008 team than this one.. PdV would have revelled far better with the challenge of molding a new team with fresh talents and ideas than he did with a group of players who were far too set in their pre structured predetermined ways.
27 Aug 2012, 10:26 am
@capebull-150: Mate it was at the time Lambie got injured, freddy got into good form and also at the time Ludik and Viljoen were not in great for either so plaum wanted them both on the park
NOw freddy has left, Ludik and Viljoen both in great form, and Lambie is now in the 10 seat and can play his natural position again, and of course hopefully stay injury free
27 Aug 2012, 10:28 am
@sharks_lover-154: What is the story with Jantjes and the Sharks?
27 Aug 2012, 10:28 am
@Transformation-151: Transie , I agree with you , it was most definatly one of the worse performances I have ever seen.
To say HM is all to blame ??
Players like Bekker , Eben , Jannie, Beast and the rest are all to blame.
At least the Bulls/ Shark game was one of the better games.
27 Aug 2012, 10:28 am
jake white turned around a QF world cup hiding in 2003 to win the 3N.
heyneke looks well short of that feat.
27 Aug 2012, 10:29 am
@grant10-155: On E news this morning the Sports news presenter said that it seems more than likely that Jantjes is Sharks bound, not sure how true it is though?
27 Aug 2012, 10:31 am
It seems for Sa coaches you first have to hit rockbottom, before you wake up.
So I’m glad that performance did this.
27 Aug 2012, 10:32 am
@shooter-159: Lower than this you can not go .
27 Aug 2012, 10:36 am
Sheriff, is jy ‘n emo?
Tonnelvisie is nie ‘n unieke afrikaanse ding nie.
Jy konsentreer te veel daarop.
Daar is 100000′e groeperinge wat hulle eie brand f*ctap bring.
In elk geval. Jou pseudo sensitiewe versigtige analise van die situasie
is temerig en stereotiperend. Kompleet met die ‘ek verstaan’ klousule.
Belaglike logika wat jy volg daar, seun.
27 Aug 2012, 10:37 am
@capebull-160: Daar was lanklaas in 80 minute soveel gevloek in SA.
27 Aug 2012, 10:41 am
@capebull-142: I hope Sat helps Meyer to finally see the light. Amazing with 2 rugby brains like Meyer and Rassie they cant realise the importance of a balanced loose trio, blows the mind
27 Aug 2012, 10:42 am
@shooter-159:
You can only hope SARU don’t supply kango hammers as part of the coaches kit.
27 Aug 2012, 10:44 am
@NZINCHINA-78: Yes it is!
27 Aug 2012, 10:45 am
@Brads-164: Yes, we may decide to look for water, to really get in the deepend.
27 Aug 2012, 10:47 am
@capebull-142: I would have
8 Runner and good distrubtor , link with backs – Coetzee
6 Fetcher – Brussow
7 Runner hard man – Alberts
27 Aug 2012, 10:50 am
@Bok fan-167: we’re not building a bende. When has Coetzee ever played 8? No man.
Anyway. Too much obviously wrong. Will leave it up to the rest to advise – and the coach and players to bounce back next game. cheers.
27 Aug 2012, 10:51 am
@Bok fan-167: Alberts was ineffective and got bossed at the contact…might be worth looking at Deysel too, he’s a pretty hard runner and strong as hell?
Meyer needs to figure out how to get Kanko and Jacques Fourie back from Japan, allow Hougaard to play his natural game, mend his fences with Brussow, take another look at CJ Stander, and get Goosen slotting into this squad. I know he’s just come back, but he’s young and eager & cream will always rise… I think he can rise to the challenge
27 Aug 2012, 11:01 am
Sheriff.I believe that keeping faith in the country and trying to
unite people is more important than keeping faith in HM.
Your derogatory comments re: a certain group totally out of line.
I know some magnificent Afrikaans people,and history
is littered with them.
Have you ever tried to communicate with them,or does your
prejudice not allow you to.
Lekker dag vorentoe.
27 Aug 2012, 11:02 am
@sharks_lover-158: wp sleeping again…
27 Aug 2012, 11:03 am
@capebull-156: The Buck stops with the coach, he is the selector, he comes up with the gameplan and he INSTRUCTS the players on what to do on the field (as he is wont to remind us) if players are not doing what he has instructed then again the buck stops with him.
on another note, i don’t know what you have against etzebeth, he played a solid game on saturday, one of the few bokke to leave with reps intact.
27 Aug 2012, 11:05 am
1. Beast
2. Biz (Fourie)
3. Coenie (Nel)
4. Alberts
5. Eben
6. Brussouw
7. Schalk
8. Vermeulen
27 Aug 2012, 11:07 am
@grant10-171: Who knows Grant, not sure if it’s a done deal, i am rather hoping we can lure Cilliers back home as i think our prop cover is a bit thin, I think thats our 1 bad area,
As for the game plan at the Sharks?? they getting there and if as a team they can building on whats been achieved so far?? then yeah i see good things to come a real possibillity
27 Aug 2012, 11:08 am
UFO.This is not a grovel but please return,as your dignity
and humour enhances this site.
Thanks to your efforts nic thefts now a thing of the past.
Can live with multi nics. Usual suspects identifiable
by style of writing,which usually contains sloppy grammar.
27 Aug 2012, 11:09 am
@Transformation-172: Etsebeth was good on the weekend, Problem was Bekker
27 Aug 2012, 11:44 am
yes i agree, if deysel is ready I’d consider calling him up.
I rate dewald potgieter highly as well.
….both these player however can’t seem to put 3 games together without getting injured.
27 Aug 2012, 11:45 am
@sharks_lover-176: well, look around, in 4 comments capebull has made he says etzebeth was rubbish
don’t know which game he was watching.
27 Aug 2012, 11:47 am
@garth-173:
that’s a pretty decent looking pack, I like it…to bad 4 are out injured for the next few months and 1 returned from injury last weekend after 4months out.
woohoo….genius.
27 Aug 2012, 11:49 am
@Transformation-178: His opinion transie, i didnt see it that way
27 Aug 2012, 11:49 am
@Transformation-178:
etsbeth does some things very well….they do not include clearing rucks ala bakkies though. He does however enjoy running with the ball which is half of the problem with our pack.
Beest
straaus
bekker
etsbeth
alberts
potgieter
coetsee
all these players enjoy holding the ball more than getting hold of it. We need some of our tight forwards to start lining up targets in the ruck.
27 Aug 2012, 11:51 am
I would just like to say how nice it is having Garth back here and commenting. He was awol for 4 years there.
very stuum when Twakkie was king or was that clown.
i forget.
27 Aug 2012, 12:00 pm
@Transformation-172: Quite right, it starts and ends with Meyer. You can’t draw the inexperienced card forever, Sam Whitelock partners with Luke Romano and Brodie Retallick who both have penny caps. It’s no different to when henry brought in the Franks brothers, the coach has to speed up the learning curve, Naas said it. Excuses are very difficult to make them stick at test level, Meyer only has test experience coaching as an assistant, now he has Loubscher and Van Graan to advise total novices, it’s going to be a very steep battle.
27 Aug 2012, 12:02 pm
@Transformation-178: Transie , Eben was no where first halve , much better in second .
I think that one of the highest priority of lock is line out. I think he took one ball saturday and did not compete or steal any ball so far in his test career. Thats why I think ghe is not as good as he can be yet.
27 Aug 2012, 12:05 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-181: I agree with you, Bizzy/Chilley, when played was the only ones that liked getting dirty, the rest ( excluding Jannie cause he did nothing ) wants to be runners
27 Aug 2012, 12:05 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-181: “etsbeth does some things very well….they do not include clearing rucks ala bakkies though” hhmm that is strange Brigs considering Eben hit 21 rucks last week 2 less than Alberts who had the highest number…
27 Aug 2012, 12:06 pm
@Transformation-186: this is true
27 Aug 2012, 12:08 pm
@capebull-184: Flip (-penalty) stole more ball in 15min playing than Bekker and Eben together in 2 tests.
Line-out is far mor important these days Auz and AB play off them , you need to steal their balls at line out.
It’s like D Fourie , great player , bad hooker cause he can not find his locks.
27 Aug 2012, 12:10 pm
@mpundulu-183: YUP! that’s why i said in an earlier comment, in as much as meyer is pointing the finger at the players he seems to conviniently forget that he also is INEXPERIENCED in international rugby and his blue-tinged support stuff even worse..
3 wins and 2 draws vs England and Argentina.
27 Aug 2012, 12:10 pm
@Transformation-186: What does stats say this week ?
27 Aug 2012, 12:16 pm
@shooter-161:
Translate for the international audience
27 Aug 2012, 12:17 pm
@Transformation-189: I’d love to find out what Henry’s input was to Santiago Phelan, who took apart Meyer’s gameplan! People speak of how poor the Boks were, however, the Argies didn’t allow them to play at all. This was a downtown hustle in Mendoza, Meyer was picked apart. Loubscher and van Graan must have been lost, wait till Hansen, Foster, Maclean, Cron, and Mick Byrne tuck into this lot!!!!
27 Aug 2012, 12:26 pm
@ryecatcher-170:
See to my mind those who say nothing are the controversial ones. If you happen to see a crime committed and see the innocent person jailed you are as guilty as the one who committed the crime.
The reasonable moral thing to do must be to raise your hand and say: Excuse me, I think you’ve got the wrong guy there.
It is tiring to take a stand. It is much easier to say nothing and pretend you’re not aware of what’s going on.
And so we have to speak out. We have to say: this or that is unacceptable! But as the reasonable voice we must do so without hatred and bitterness. But we have to say something.
See I focus on why Meyer wants to play the way he wants to play. I look at it from a macro level. In a rugby sense: Heyneke Meyer must be born again! He will need to begin to see something else; the current ideas will not yield the righteous fruit of trophies.
27 Aug 2012, 12:28 pm
@Sheriff-193: Are you arguing that kick and chase will yield results?
27 Aug 2012, 12:31 pm
@mpundulu-194:
How do you get to that conclusion?
Meyer’s game plan is to SA rugby what ANC’s corruption is to SA as a nation. They will not stand the test of time.
27 Aug 2012, 12:31 pm
@Sheriff-193: He is already born again. Don’t count on it happening twice.
27 Aug 2012, 12:33 pm
oh please transie….put the rugby stat app away.
etsebeth certainly did not hit 22 rucks. He visits often though.
Bakkies used to “hit” rucks.
27 Aug 2012, 12:36 pm
@Sheriff-193: Ryan – the only faith I will keep is in Messiah Yeshua…
So what does He say about your hate for afrikaners.
27 Aug 2012, 12:44 pm
@capebull-198: sheriff can’t hate afrikaners, he is married to one. @Brigadier Van Zyl-197: oh, you mean etzebeth doesn’t LEAD with his head? the point is, your opinion is not based on any quantifiable reason…even Puma last week was claiming he “didn’t see etzebeth” grafting…perceptions boys
27 Aug 2012, 12:49 pm
@Transformation-199: OK , interesting.
We are not saying Eben is bad , we are saying he has not arrived.
There are a few good younsters conming trough Stander , Botha, Goosen, that copuld play with Eben
CJ big loss for Bulls
27 Aug 2012, 12:49 pm
@mpundulu-192: yeah, me too…would love to know what GH told them even though it was evident at Newlands and Mendoza in how the Argies set up “dummy runners/blockers” off quick ruck ball.
not surprising: “As for the other sides in the new Rugby Championship, Wayne Smith believed there was reason for optimism for Argentina despite their debut loss to the Springboks in Cape Town.
“It would not shock me at all if they were able to beat South Africa in Mendoza this weekend,” he said.
While he applauded the Springboks accuracy and their back row depth to cover their injury crisis in this department Smith felt there were still “a lot of good signs from Argentina”.
“Juan Martin Hernandez is a heck of a player. Sometimes he is too far ahead of the rest of his team. When they get onto his wave length then Argentina will be a big threat, particularly at home. They were not outclassed at the weekend and could certainly beat South Africa.”
27 Aug 2012, 12:58 pm
Again all the hype about how bad the Bokkies played.Give me a break guys,just give credit ,for the all heart and passion from the Argentinians.
27 Aug 2012, 12:59 pm
@capebull-198:
Liewe Hiesus is very far removed from the Yeshua that I read about in the Scriptures.
Yeshua made -what would be to some controversial and repulsive statements- like: Blessed is the poor for theirs is the Malkuth HaShamayim. Why Yeshua and not ***** you may wonder? It’s not a big deal really, it’s just that ***** is of course an English translation of a Greek translation.
He spoke out against the hypocrisy and for His trouble was called all manner of things. (Read slowly, I’m not a preacher mode)
Liewe Hiesus is of course our own SA take on it but if further explored will conclude that he is European, which of course He was not. He certainly did not speak Cape Dutch back in the 1st century…
27 Aug 2012, 13:00 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-196:
Did you notice the ‘ In a rugby sense’ ?
Go back and read the post again…
Born again is another way of saying he needs to change his mind.
27 Aug 2012, 13:04 pm
@Transformation-199:
no transie, its true.
eztebeth is nowhere near effective enough in the way he ‘hits’ or ‘cleans’ rucks.
perhaps its down to coaching and a little bit due to age but he is not the article yet.
i would draft bakkies and either shift eben to 5 or put him on the bench. his time will come i hope when he is a working mans no.4 lock.
same for bekker, maybe bring kruger in instead?
27 Aug 2012, 13:17 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-205: this conversation is nicely morphing from “he was NOWHERE” to “he is not the finished article”
these are two different things…was eben kak on saturday as capebull earlier suggested? NO.
will Eben improve with time, given this is his 5th Test and he is compared to Bakkies, YES!
when capebull and co, count players that were rubbish in Mendoza, Eben Etzebeth is NOT one of them…
let’s not shift the goal posts
27 Aug 2012, 13:24 pm
I meant to say: Blessed are the poor for theirs…
He was referring to mental and other baggage the rich have which makes it hard, but not impossible, to receive the Malkuth HaShamayim like a child.
For the scholars here: it better to reinstate Yeshua in His Jewish/Hebraic context and then to read the Scriptures
It is to my mind no wonder that Christianity has earned for itself such a bad name in many circles: the roman catholics have done a lot to delete His Jewishness and the protestants have not exactly done a lot to undo it
Thankfully Messianic Jews (that = Jews who embrace Yeshua as Messiah) are helping us Gentiles understand things better. The symbolism, the feasts, the customs
27 Aug 2012, 13:30 pm
Sheriff.Agree with virtually all that you say.But to tar all Afrikaners with
the same brush of conservatism is just wrong.I too am married to
an Afrikaans woman who would klap me if I accused her of what
you accuse an entire linguistic group.
Harry Viljoen is also Afrikaans.One could class him as stupid but never
conservative in what he tried to achieve.
If you know SA history you will know that apartheid and all of its horror
actually started with the British.The Afrikaner merely perfected its
dark arts and cruelty.
Maybe the rigours of his job will change HM.I hope so.
27 Aug 2012, 13:41 pm
@Transformation-206:
all i’m saying is lets bring bakkies back and help ease the kid into the role of being the number one enforcer.
this isn’t a bad thing.
27 Aug 2012, 13:42 pm
@Sheriff-195: Not a conclusion but a query, I was trying to establish if I read your entry correctly.
Corruption never goes away, however, Meyer’s gameplan will in four years or less……
27 Aug 2012, 13:45 pm
@UKSaffa-108: “No one even knew who Divvy was when he got the job”
Most non whites knew PDV and he had a good track record, none different than Jake Wit.
27 Aug 2012, 13:46 pm
@Transformation-201: Wayne Smith is always spot on, he saw Meyer’s frailties, and Mallett saw it coming a while ago.
27 Aug 2012, 13:46 pm
@Sheriff-203: So what does He say about forgiveness ?
27 Aug 2012, 13:47 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-205: Kruger has never heard of a ruck.
27 Aug 2012, 13:48 pm
@Transformation-206: Transie agreed , I will still say that Eben was not good first halve with marked improvement second. I do agree with you though that its sad day for Bok rugby if a 20 year old was one of the better forwards.
27 Aug 2012, 13:50 pm
@Tacitus-46: ‘I have full faith in Heyneke’s gameplan, but I think we lack the personnel to implement it with any degree of effect at the moment.’
Then you’ll have to concede it’s the wrong gameplan for this particular group of players, whose fault is that?
27 Aug 2012, 13:51 pm
@ryecatcher-208: Agreed, like in any nation and in any team supporters, there are some family you would rather not talk about , these are definatly not limited to Afrikaners and Bull supporters.
27 Aug 2012, 13:51 pm
@mpundulu-214:
juandre kruger is playing some good rugby.
27 Aug 2012, 13:51 pm
@adi-211: spot on.
27 Aug 2012, 13:52 pm
@adi-211: That isn’t quite true mate. I’m white, and I knew exactly who he was, and what he had done with Bok juniors and an Emerging Bok team, as well as his rugby history as a player and his stints with various unions (defunct Spears etc) in SA.
In SA, you get rugby ‘fans’ who only follow Bok rugby and Super rugby. The truth is, there is much more to it than that, as other fans will tell you. Many around SA have no interest in Vodacom Cup rugby (a pity…as they would have noticed a few of the Argies who played Saturday right there in the last 2 years…), Age group rugby (U/19 etc), Schoolboy rugby, Club rugby etc etc etc.
Most people were aware of who P de Villiers – those that had no clue, obviously hadn’t looked further than Bok rugby for a reference.
27 Aug 2012, 14:34 pm
@ryecatcher-208:
I need to state that I actually want Heyneke to succeed, because if he succeeds we are all winners.
It is not my fault that Afrikaners were the architects of apartheid or separate selfish econ development. They did it and the generations that follow will be reminded of that. It was a regime that had very distinct tendencies and it was there for the world to see.
Heyneke for all his passion for the game and players deserves to be in the role and he must do his best. However Heyneke will be judged on his performance like all his predecessors. Unfortunately for him, there will always be quite a bit of pressure on him to give players of colour enough opportunity. If he does not understand that then he should not be there.
At this stage he seems to gravitate to what he knows, or differently stated, to what made him successful a few years ago. My careful observation of him is that he has strong opinions (which he is entitled to) but if it does not work then we have to question whether he should be there.
Direct rugby = RUGBISH (combo of rugby and rubbish)
27 Aug 2012, 14:35 pm
@shooter-168: Actually he started as an 8 for the sharks and only moved to 7 recently buddy
27 Aug 2012, 14:36 pm
@Atreides-169: Agree with all your points.
27 Aug 2012, 14:39 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-220: Spot on! these “kenners” tend to be the loudest mouths and first to get annoyed at pubs or stadiums.
Meyer wants to talk “inexperience” when the Argies are playing fellas who are in our VODACOM CUP, pfffttt
27 Aug 2012, 14:41 pm
@jacquesknotter-202: For every couple of swear words I had for the Boks on Sat I had a complement for the Argies
27 Aug 2012, 14:44 pm
@Transformation-224: Meyer better get his kop reg and quick!
27 Aug 2012, 14:47 pm
@mpundulu-210:
No read the thread from the beginning, Meyer’s plan is rubbish
He should look at positions 8-9-10-12; the creativity must come from those players primarily and he should create an environment where people will try to be creative
He is the coach and it is in his power to do so. However if he continuously praises structure (read Blue Bulls ek-donner-vir jou rugby) then we will simply become irrelevant. I want to see flair, innovation, creativity, fresh ideas etc
I will also keep a close eye on him of giving ‘Oom Japie se klong’ opportunities just to scoop up rewards of going to ‘jag in the Karoo’ or trying to work the consolation of the Afrikaner (similar to what the people of Israel expected from their messiah)
I demand fairness from him. That is the brief and his coaching (not him as a person) will be judged accordingly.
27 Aug 2012, 14:49 pm
@capebull-213:
Who? Liewe Hiesus?
He does not exist.
27 Aug 2012, 14:49 pm
@Sheriff-227: Can’t argue with that.
27 Aug 2012, 15:03 pm
@Sheriff-228: Yeshua , but you are avoiding the question , just answer it, stop playing with words. Unless you are a polititian.
You are in a lucky position that no can judge you , but can judge every one , mooi man.
The world accoring to Sherrif.
27 Aug 2012, 15:09 pm
Hopefully Meyer would have learnt the lesson that bigger is not always better – SA pack weight 535 vs Argies 480 something – that is around 50 kg. It does not matter who plays from all our personal favourites – the Bok attack is so predictable that you know what they will be doing 5 phases ahead. The Argies could just line up their defenders before hand, and not even Willem Alberts is going to crash through 4 committed defenders. The forwards need to attack the space – not try and run over everyone.
And where has the offloading gone – in the first / second English tests we saw a number of offloads – even scored at least a try off one
Listening to Mallet after the game highlighted the problem – the lack of authority of 10 to run the game as he sees fit. Until that changes, no matter if we select Brussouw or whoever – nothing will change. Morne is just playing as a robot at the moment – when in doubt kick the up and under. He does not (and probably is not encouraged to) play the game that is in front of him. We also need to give him options to use – inside and outside – not just brutes hanging at 12.
And we really need a proper back line / attack coach – any decent back line coach would stop this habit of JDV to crab sideways immediately as well as the stupid cutout passes that immediately negates a 5-2 situation.
27 Aug 2012, 15:14 pm
@capebull-230:
There you go again seuna
(By the way, may I say: I really dislike that word ‘seuna’ ; it is so ‘ossewa-ish’ )
You say I play with words and call me something that non-blacks like to call blacks when they don’t adhere to our ossewa ideas. A politician.
I’m surprised you don’t call me a ‘dominee’ but you’re probably scared that it may backfire.
You can judge what I do and say, you won’t get in trouble but you must be able to articulate your position. That is the only requirement of a platform of this nature. Otherwise you lose credibility…
By the way ‘ mooi man’ is SO 1992-ish ; come up a with a fresh word, a new concept. Even school kids do this : 2 weeks ago something awesome was referred to as ‘beast’ ; the other week ‘monster’ and now I hear it’s ‘deep’
Allow me to JUDGE your spelling; my nick is ‘SHERIFF’ ; why are you so attracted to the letter ‘r’
27 Aug 2012, 15:18 pm
@UKSaffa-108:
“No one even knew who Divvy was when he got the job.”
You mean that YOU did not know who PdV was when he got the job, don’t you?
27 Aug 2012, 15:18 pm
@Sheriff-232: So Sherrif, what does your Yeshua, say about forgiveness ?
27 Aug 2012, 15:25 pm
My land;my volk,; my grond; my biltong; die Bulle,: my taal,: my plaas: my geweer, jag; vleis; swartes – all these nationalistic concepts are now outdated.
We are now in the process of re-imagining a new SA minus the corruption of the ANC’s tenderpreneurs.
And we voice our opinion on everything, especially rugby eventhough our fathers and mothers were not allowed to go to the stadiums; we say that’s fine – at least we can go.
They say we must forgive. It’s like someone violating a lady only to make eye contact in court and whisper: you must forgive me. It’s perverse.
But yes, for the sake of the moving forward we forgive the ignorance but we will continually remind ourselves what NOT to do.
27 Aug 2012, 15:29 pm
@capebull-234:
Sherrif does not exist.
(Cool heads)
I need to leave shortly … forgive me for putting you under pressure
27 Aug 2012, 15:37 pm
@Sheriff-236: I never judged you , and I am not agry with you, so there’s no harm done. I am just interested in peoples views on certain things.
27 Aug 2012, 18:41 pm
Keep the Faith – I know I am a bit late on this but Bon Jovi did have hillarious hair!!
27 Aug 2012, 18:48 pm
But I have to admit quite liking ‘Living on a Prayer’!
28 Aug 2012, 01:33 am
About 2 yrs is correct for the bokke to evolve into something worth shouting for.
Too many changes going on, from worlds best players leaving, new staff, many new players. The clash with old coaching style and freedom to something probably more stricker. Perhaps more religious too, being a coach from the Bulls team( the religious fanatics) the culture(coach vs team) will take time to evolve and settle. Not in this 4Ns anyway. I wonder if JDV’s the “clown”/”fool” of the team should really be the captain? How do you take such a person seriously?
Not taking anything away from the coach, but would it not have been better to play Lambie instead of Steyn in the last two matches or last one anyway. If Steyn is 3yrs running in 5th gear, surely time out is needed regardless of his two week break recently? That clearly shows the poor communication, respect, lack of foreseeability to players from their provincial and national managements alike.
Will, Steyn continue in his “better form” remains to be seen. I think not.
Lambie should be a fly half so, giving him game time is esential. I dont think the score would have not been any different anyway, if not better.
A waisted appotunity for both players.
28 Aug 2012, 03:20 am
I want to apologise because this is not a place for an Argentinenan, here are talking about the Suothafrican Rugby situation, but, like the title said: Keep the faith.
A friend of me told me that the boks was in the stadium early, giving away jerseys of the boks.
A child began to cry, becasue was no more jersey, but Habanna gave his own.
All the teams must thing to fix.
We need fix our scrum, is a band of vagabonds trained by perhaps the worst bully of all rugby history.
We need a 9.
We need a decent kicker.
I want to tell my words of appreciation, and don´t be crue with the boks, they are a parameter to us.
28 Aug 2012, 04:32 am
@TheTorcuatense-241:
First of all, welcome to the fold of SH rugby and I hope it is a long and fruitfull relationship for all involved.
Second, please feel free to comment here because it may be a SA rugby site be we do like variety.
Thirdly, when a Bok team lose (or draw) a match the analysis is usually way over the top and negative comments exceed the positives by a long way. Come the next game we still support them.
Lastly, I am glad to see the Boks were well received and they did their bit as well, may it long continue.
28 Aug 2012, 05:24 am
@Transformation-201:
Surely you are not saying the Argies did well cos GH told them too cheat??
You are getting so close to Bakkies stature its not funny.
You have to be blind to not see the Bok players in ruck time standing on the side with one hand on ruck…..they are the blockers. Surely you can see this.
28 Aug 2012, 05:37 am
@TheTorcuatense-241:
Hi, good to see some more variety and difference of views.
I am a Kiwi, so if these guys can handle me you will be fine and blog away where you like, they would love to hear your views on the Championship i am sure.
But make sure you tell then your second favorite team is the All Blacks.
These would like that
28 Aug 2012, 06:00 am
@Hurricane-244:
Bah nice try, he is hanging around a SA rugby site, not TSF! Seems he has some class…unlike you motley lot that slipped in under the door
28 Aug 2012, 06:01 am
Just sitting here reading this and trying to imagine what a native Spanish speaker will make out of some of the more bizzare utterances that some of the regular posters make. I can’t translate most of them into real English, let alone from there to a 3rd language.
Torcuatense – if you can’t make sense of some of the posts on here, don’t worry. Most of the native English speakers can’t work out what they are saying either.
As for Hurricanes advice about 2nd favourite teams, I suggest that you note that he is a well known trouble maker and all advice should be ignored. When on Keo your 2nd favourite team is always the Boks. When on the NZ forums, your 2nd favourite team is always the AB’s, and when on any Australian forums (do they have any?), your 2nd favourite team can also be the AB’s because even the Aussies don’t really like the Wallabies at the moment.
28 Aug 2012, 11:06 am
Good article. I can only chuckle as the mob on this blog once again display their ignorance and small-minded, petty agendas. Only a small minority seem to be taking cognizance of the fact that the Boks have a huge injury list.
This fixation that Bekker must be Matfield 2.0 needs to stop. Matfield was a legend. Bekker might not be as good but he is still the best we have now. It is entertaining how badly Spies was missed in the line outs, yet few people here notice it.
The only legimate complaints I can see are Hougaard at 9, Steyn at flyhalf, Keegan being too light and Potgieter not stepping up enough to bridge the physicality gap.
I see the fallacy that Brussow will somehow magically protect our ball from the opposition slowing it down while off their feet is also still doing the rounds.
Thank God the mob on Keo is not indicative of the average SA rugby supporter. Don’t get me wrong the Bok performance wasn’t good enough, the Argies played well and got away with some dodgy breakdown moves but since very few people here make comments in light of the personnel available well… it makes most of these comments pretty much worthless.
29 Aug 2012, 03:45 am
Thanks for your words guys!
Hurricane, sorry but the loyalty of many Argentines is with SA.
We have a history, in fact, the name pumas, was doing for a Southafrican reporter. He can´t tell ” YAGUARETÉS ” (the real name of the cat in our chest), and he was the things more easy and tell “PUMAS”, another reason to tell pumas, was for the bravery shwed in the match (1965, Pumas 11- Junior Boks 6).
Izak van Heerden help us, the same histori in 1982, when Nellie Smith help us and we win under the name SUDAMERICA XV against the boks 21-12.
But for yuor knowledge, I always support the south teams. In the past RWC I was an all black fan in the final.
Regards and thanks!
29 Aug 2012, 06:35 am
@Slartibartfast-245:
Yeah i know but we try our best to fit in.
@TheTorcuatense-248:
Ohh so you support the Boks as well……. that alright mate no one is perfect.
Joking, anyway good to have you on Keo, can get a bit heated at times as you would expect.Too alot rugby is more than a sport.
@aliboy-246:
Even the smiley face did not give you a clue that i was joking.
Lets hope Torcuatense can make up his own mind on who to look out for.
Straight away he knows you are clueless to think if you blog on a South African site then that country has to be you second team…… daft comment really.
29 Aug 2012, 07:46 am
@Hurricane-249:
But why did some of your fellow countrymen pick the lowest common denominator to ‘fit in’?
Suppose it is like family, you can’t pick them!
Anyway, I think if you read Ali’s post again you will note his smiley face may have slipped off the page, little ill will in the post unless you looking for it.
29 Aug 2012, 12:57 pm
Thanks for our flowers Hurricane, my full name is No One
29 Aug 2012, 12:58 pm
our = your
Have your say
You must be logged in to post a comment.