Keep the faith
27 Aug 2012
RYAN VREDE writes that the Springboks’ performance in Mendoza was woeful but it is premature to make absolute judgements about Heyneke Meyer’s aptitude.
A draw, and the manner thereof, against Argentina was inexcusable. Meyer said as much in his post-match assessment.
It would be remiss not to credit Argentina for their industry, intensity and tactical appreciation. They were outstanding when viewed in the context of their opponents and the infancy of their Rugby Championship involvement. But this was one the Springboks botched as opposed to one they were completely overwhelmed in. They were awful, with their attacking game in particular failing to inspire.
However, the emotion-fuelled predictions of peril that soared after the final whistle and that persist are premature and unfounded. It is understandable in some ways. The level of disappointment is influenced by the level of expectation. The result, which Meyer agreed felt like a defeat, wasn’t inconceivable, but the widely held expectation was for a comfortable Springboks win. Still, it is absurd to see that result and the quality of the performance as indicative of a doomed road ahead under Meyer.
The coach has never explicitly asked for time to settle into his role, for his charges to grasp his philosophies and methods or for him to address physical, technical and mental shortcomings of individuals. But to expect him to have immediate success is unreasonable, particularly given the limited preparation time he has had with the squad, the youthfulness of his group and injuries to key and experienced players (and the unavailability of talented rookies).
With regards to the latter, the perspective here is that the absence of JP Pietersen, Bismarck du Plessis and Schalk Burger is significant. The trio are among the best in their positions in world rugby and have over 150 Test caps between them. I’ve lamented Pierre Spies’ inability to impose himself consistently on the Test stage, but he is a player I believed would thrive with his mentor at the helm, and one with a half century of caps.
Coenie Oosthuizen was an integral part of Meyer’s plan before he was injured, as was Ryan Kankowski before he opted to continue his career in Japan. Both are seasoned players and possess the ability to make telling impacts off the wood. Furthermore, Johan Goosen and Duane Vermuelen’s injuries denied Meyer their services (both would have had substantial game time) and strike one as having the technical and mental constitution to have made the transition to Test rugby relatively comfortably.
Meyer’s preferred scrumhalf, Fourie du Preez, was committed to Sungoliath in Japan. Du Preez is likely to return for the year-end tour (should a renegotiation of his contract work out as planned), but for now Meyer has a void not yet adequately filled in his absence.
I’m not an apologist for Meyer, but there needs to be perspective on the Springboks’ future under him. It is not bleak. He is different from Peter de Villiers, who was technically and tactically inept and largely squandered the player riches at his disposal during his tenure.
But how long is long enough before we can make more legitimate conclusions about him and his methods? I would say by the end of the 2013 Rugby Championship, when he would have had more than enough time to work with the players he wants, not those he was forced to turn to through circumstance.
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252 Comments
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27 Aug 2012, 09:38 am
I also took note that Robbie Deans has copied the Boks’ gameplan.
27 Aug 2012, 09:40 am
@poppa69-88: Look I know P Divvy’s mouth was his hugest enemy, and he said one or 2 things that upset the Kiwis…but honestly, if you had the chance to talk to the man about rugby, I guarantee you that you would change your opinion of him.
He received far too much slack that was undeserved, and not enough credit that WAS deserved.
An orator – NO. But a loyal man, passionate student of the game with some pretty decent rugby ideas – YES.
Regardless of what many of you may thing, the man did admirably well, all things considered – (lack of support all round).
He had one fault (and even that was forced on him by a partisan Bok public): He didn’t have the self belief to ignore the media, critics and fans, and forge ahead with his own Bok blueprint.
Rugby (whether many here will admit it or not) is poorer without him – on quite a few levels I might add.
27 Aug 2012, 09:40 am
@Nils-97: my mistake, some maintain its because GH showed the argies how to cheat
27 Aug 2012, 09:41 am
Just saw that Caylib Oosthuizen has signed with the Cheetahs from the Lions for next year.
Looks like Naka will probably be shifting Coenie to tighthead then with Caylib, Nyakane and De Klerk as options for loosehead.
27 Aug 2012, 09:41 am
Imo….
ons het moeilikheid…..
27 Aug 2012, 09:44 am
@Nils-98: The Argies were fantastic, and they deserved to win the Mendoza clash hands down. A draw was a dreadful result for them. Even if Morne has kicked the winning penalty it would have been an undeserved and hollow victory for the Boks.
The Argies deserved to win full stop.
But the sh y te the Boks dished up, should not and will not be excused. A loss or draw to quality opposition is no insult, if you play the game…
27 Aug 2012, 09:44 am
Cheetahs have exciting backline for next year.
9. Van Zyl 10. Goosen 11. Ruhle 12. Ebershon 13. Sadie 14. Smit 15. Le Roux
Their front row looks impressive enough with Nyakana, Strauss and Oosthuizen.
They have a bunch of useful loosies in Brussow, Floors, Viljoen, Labuschagne, Van Der Walt, Prinsloo and Raubenheimer. They just need to get the right mix.
Now sign some locks!
27 Aug 2012, 09:44 am
The reason HM is given more of a chance than Divvy is not that he is white, it is because he has a proven track record. When he got the job, he was largely considered the best for the job. No one even knew who Divvy was when he got the job.
That said, what is worrying for the Springbok fan is that we drew to the Argies playing with an outdated gameplan and the wrong personnel. Had we drawn to the Argies trying to play a brand of rugby that was adventurous and creative, HM would have been forgiven as it takes time to learn a new style of play. Truth is that we drew playing a style of rugby that we’ve played since Jake White.
Lastly, in my limited coaching experience, I was involved with a school that simply was not expected to win a game. Our team did not have the players to make any gain line with the ball. The solution was to kick up and unders and to the corners for territory, hoping to turn the ball over and score. It worked for some games.
But we were a kuk school with kuk players. Why are the Boks playing similar rugby?
27 Aug 2012, 09:45 am
@Staal-105: heaps big trouble.. A4Y’s worth
27 Aug 2012, 09:45 am
@Staal-105: Goeie more yster
27 Aug 2012, 09:47 am
The reason for picking Peter de Villiers ahead of Heyneke Meyer is now proven. What a rubish coach!!!
27 Aug 2012, 09:48 am
@poppa69-95:
Do you enjoy our pain?
27 Aug 2012, 09:49 am
Our biggest problem is moving on from the gameplan of the last 8 years where we relied on two things, lineout dominance (which was easier back then because NZ’s line out was piss poor) and Fourie Du Preez. Our FH’s have not been able to cope without him, we need to play our rugby of 10 not 9.
We need to be more creative and sadly Meyer is not that man. I believe if Meyer was coach in 2008 we would have done better, but I think maybe PDIV would have been a better option now.
27 Aug 2012, 09:50 am
I will keep the faith when Meyer starts making the big calls: 6. Brussow 9.Pienaar 10. Lambie/Janjes/Goosen 3. WP Nel
27 Aug 2012, 09:50 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-92: Why is it with you, no one can have an opion other than yours , if we do were are idiots or dilusional. Who made you the know it all ?
I said that uot T 5 did not perform and that is a major part of the problem. Talking about structures , Stormers was best6 example of this,There is not coach that will coach without a structure. I am not saying I like it , but to blame HM for using structure is crazy , they all have it.
AC was told all year long change he did not want to , rest is history.
HM has not lost with his structure , do you think he will change it now ? I think he should , but like any other coach will he ?
27 Aug 2012, 09:51 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-106: I agree with every word you said here.
27 Aug 2012, 09:54 am
@Bok fan-114: They are injured. HM hates losing more than what he likes his pride.
27 Aug 2012, 09:55 am
I’m smiling.
27 Aug 2012, 09:57 am
@Mr Black-112:
lol
Look its not good when you have issues with your team, no matter if its the players or coach, still the team. But atleast not one of our Media that i have seen called South African rugby cr@p and say that its a waste of time touring NZ until they get better.
Now that was 2010, a year after the pasting we recieved from South Africa. Now ask yourself, do all you as well enjoy our pain?
27 Aug 2012, 09:57 am
It’s a grismal day but I’m smiling.
27 Aug 2012, 09:57 am
Keep the faith in Steve Walsh, Alain Rolland and Nigel Owen
Trouble is Down Under they will be on the look out, the 2009 coop may not repeat itself there.
And then what?
27 Aug 2012, 09:57 am
@Dawn-118:
of course you are you quisling.
27 Aug 2012, 09:58 am
The solution comes down to this: players like Elton Jantjies and Bjorn Basson must get more scope. These are guys that have the x-factor.
Kamakaze players like Jacques Potgieter is not the way forward.
But it is unlikely that ‘oom en tannie’ lager mentality will change; Francois Hougaard’s only progress is the number of tattoos. Morne Steyn will never become creative and Frans Steyn will not lose any weight. Why players like JJ Engelbrecht is in the squad boggles the mind
With a surname like ‘Meyer’ the German/Dutch blood will be strong and the ‘stubborn factor’ will be high. The greater the perceived threat the higher the stubborness.
It’s not going to work I’m afraid…
27 Aug 2012, 09:58 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-102: Nice post
27 Aug 2012, 09:58 am
@Mr Black-112: indeed I do….like the vulture I am enjoying feasting on the carcass that was Bok rugby…. not much left on the bones to be honest, the flesh is still tepid and the last beats of life can be felt in the pulsating gargle of the once proud animals final heartbeat
but then, Ive always loved Argentinian style chicken
27 Aug 2012, 09:59 am
Ear to ear.
27 Aug 2012, 10:01 am
Argies eat beef you fool.
27 Aug 2012, 10:01 am
@capebull-117: Boet, maybe you are getting it maybe not, HM has a chance to get things on track, BUt for that to happen he also has to be big enough to admit his mistakes and he has to accept that he needs more than 1 game plan.
Even though im not saying his game plan is KAK, it works some times and other times NOT, surely he should work at options for the times his 1 plan does not work.
Look past the, He is a BUlls hero of the past so we just accept what he says is ok because it worked 5 or 6 years ago.
Rugby keeps evolving and rule changess have been made aplenty, HE NEEDS TO THINK OUTSIDE OF THE BOX
27 Aug 2012, 10:01 am
White also had balls.
Selected Habana out of nowhere to the Bok squad. Made a few bad calls, yes, like Henno Mentz, or bringing back Andre Snyman, but more often then not his decisions paid off.
Habana was outstanding when White pulled him out from nowhere.
Meyer hasn’t got the balls, or feel for the game, like White does.
27 Aug 2012, 10:02 am
FS backline 9. Sarel 10. Goosen 11. Le Roux 12. Ebershon 13. Sadie 14. Ruhle 15. Daniller
27 Aug 2012, 10:03 am
@poppa69-109:
@sharks_lover-110: More ou maat – slegte naweek maar gelukkig het net 1 v my spanne verloor?
27 Aug 2012, 10:05 am
@Dawn-127:
Picante de Pollo
Spicy Chicken Argentine Style
seems they couldnt get their hands on any South African beef over the weekend, so had to make do with the chickens..
27 Aug 2012, 10:05 am
@Sheriff-123: What is wrong with you, why do you have an issue with Afrikaans people , this is rugby, keep it like that or join ANCYL.
27 Aug 2012, 10:05 am
altans – slegte rugby- naweek.
27 Aug 2012, 10:06 am
HM faces a big dilemma as to how he approaches the current situation. He has unfortunately inherited a rather “green” pack and all that these guys are lacking is the experience. Under normal circumstances you would introduce the greenhorns under the guidance of more experienced players i.e. Eztebeth under Bakkies wings; Bekker under Matfield’s wings etc but you would always have a mixture of experienced palyers with teh new generation coming through.
The players he has selected certainly have the abilitiy toplay for the Boks and to perform well, its all down to combinations and teh playing “culture” as opposed to style that he adopts. If he now chooses to drop these players because of the need to achieve results he runs the risk of them losing faith in their ability completely for the future , so he has to stick to them. His best approach as suggested already would be to bring back some steel into the forwards (Bakkies/Gurthro etc) and look at his playing combinations to play to their individual strengths. I have a problem with “game plans” in that they sometimes force players to play to a style that is not natural to them and would suggest that HM looks at his selection criteria with a view to how each individuals playing strengths compliments the other players and compensates for any weakness in the other players.
On top of that he has to free these players up to play ot their natural strengths by creating an environment of trust in each other. His bollocking of the players after the game, whilst it be true, should have been done on an individual basis in private with some coaching as to what they need ot be aware of in terms of playing to their strengths and how by not doing so it affects the performanec of the others.
For instance Marcel Coetzee is not as effective when we play a game plan that allows the ball to die after every pick and drive, he is much more effective in the offload game that the Sharks play and playing him with Jacque was a disaster for the very reason that Jacques does not stay on his feet in the drive and goes to ground without commiting the opposition tacklers. The assistant tackler has to go to ground or be forced to release with no time to attack the ball which means staying on your feet long enough for your support to get there and drive the assistant tackler off.
27 Aug 2012, 10:08 am
@capebull-117: Other than Brussow who should be back soon, the rest are available. In the interim you need to play 2 hybrid flanks together which he isnt doing. Our breakdown has been moving from bearable to completely useless this whole season
27 Aug 2012, 10:09 am
M Steyn is the handbrake on any backline innovation . As long as he is there we will struggle to get optimum out of the backs….
Players that should be dropped from the squad….
1.A Bekker [ he is either injured, disinterested or just plain useless ]
2 J Potgieter….I dont understand his inclusion at all, in fact a disgrace with Kolisi available and not taken …
3. M Steyn….just cut the 1 dimensional deep laying skop en jag artist once and for all
4.J De Villiers….Stormers were far better when he was out, he looks as bewildered as the coach….
HM said he is not averse to overseas players if good enough?
Then get Guthro, F Louw and Kanko back a sap….
Vermeulen , Brussow and Goosen are absolute must haves but only on return leg as they all match shy….and FFS get Aplon and JDJ in the mix man…
HM can sort this but he is going to have to be flexible and may have to eat some humble pie with some players he snubbed.
Brussow was snubbed badly, a penalty risk? Check the amount of penalties we conceded Sat nite!
27 Aug 2012, 10:09 am
@Staal-131:
Ya my Spannietjie verloor toe teen die Bulls maar ek het dit verwag. 10 spelers uit is nit te versmaai nie, en die jong outjies doen goed, maar die een ding wat op so tyd intree by n span is wisselvalligheid in hulle spel’
Tog was die wedstryd tussen die BUlle en die Sharks n baie goeie vertooning deur alby spanne
27 Aug 2012, 10:09 am
@sharks_lover-128: Which part of my family are you from, boet?
HM has a game plan , he does not have the players to exicute it. So does he change or does he find players ?
One thing I agree the pack has to step up , I do not agree with endless up and unders , why kick with 5min left ??
27 Aug 2012, 10:10 am
@Staal-134: not sure there is a calculator in the world capable of determining that rate
27 Aug 2012, 10:12 am
Ryan quit gatkruioing man, you blaady agent!
last week you were going on: “RYAN VREDE writes the Springboks’ defensive excellence against Argentina is a greater cause for optimism than their failure to score a bonus point is cause for concern.
Personally I don’t understand the near-hysteria around the Springboks’ inability to secure five points at Newlands on Saturday. I would have deeper concerns if the Springboks had looked completely impotent and not got themselves in scoring positions.
But they did, and how they got themselves there – largely through a kick-chase method – doesn’t vex me either.”
now what?
we must accept meyer’s MEDIOCRITY because he hasn’t had time with the team against ARGENTINA?
can you tell us how experienced is the Argentine side vs our Bokke?
27 Aug 2012, 10:14 am
@Bok fan-136: I agree 6,7,8 are all the same . Balance is key,
8 Runner and good distrubtor , link with backs
6 Fetcher
7 Runner hard man
27 Aug 2012, 10:17 am
@capebull-139: The smart side of the family?
Boet we all know he has a plan, but no team will survive with just that 1 plan, and no we dont have the likes of a Bakkies anymore, all the more reason that the coach should evolve with the times,
I am not even saying kick the plan he has, just have more options that that 1
And he should not be scared to sub Morne if he is not having a great day, which seems to be the case.
If he does not want to he should raather send Lambie back to the Sharks, because i have no doubt Lambies confidence is taking a nose dive under HM right now.
Luckily the Sharks coach has stated that Lambie is a 10 and will in future not get stuffed around in having to play all over the place,
27 Aug 2012, 10:17 am
@Transformation-141: All is true , HM himself does not except the loss , lets wait and see his next move, then we will know.
27 Aug 2012, 10:17 am
@Tacitus-60: Suddenly the problem shifts from the coach to the player’s inabilities, if that’s the case, should the current coach be in the job or there was always a proviso on taking the job. Its now 3/5, Australia and NZ to come.
27 Aug 2012, 10:18 am
That was an interesting result, which should be flag of concern for the AB’s.
NZ have an historical home and away average over Argentina of
56 – 11 Home
28 – 17 Away
While SA’s record is
42.- 20 Home
37 – 20 Away
The Puma’s look to have tightened up their defense and are always a handful for the AB’s at home. So unless we can sort out our finishing, it could well be another tight affair like on Saturday against the Bok’s.
27 Aug 2012, 10:19 am
Ryan: ” I would have deeper concerns if the Springboks had looked completely impotent and not got themselves in scoring positions”
are you DEEPLY CONCERNED ryan or are you making excuses?
27 Aug 2012, 10:20 am
@capebull-133:
I have to go now but I would like to reply to you.
Son, I have nothing against people who were born into families that speak Cape-Dutch.
But you are right in saying that I have a problem with manufactured culture known as Afrikanerdom. It is that type of logic that gave us apartheid or selfish econ development at the expense of others.
With that culture comes a certain logic or mentality that as you may or may not know, is very hard to break or change. Very few people born into that can actually recognize it for what it is but there are those who do. I know several of them in person.
It is relevant in our rugby as rugby is the Afrikaners’ favourite sport. Also our coach is Afrikaner and we have a responsibility to ensure that we dont regress to where we come from. The ANC is doing enough to take us there fast.
For your info, my mother tongue is actually Cape Dutch. And so I am able to speak out against it because of my understanding of the issue.
Just like we should not allow the ANC to take us into the abyss with their politics, so we need to prevent Afrikaners to make us regress to our dark past in rugby.
I have time for ‘oopkop Afrikaners’ but I’m not seeing too many at the moment…
27 Aug 2012, 10:21 am
hell that was 1 bloody ugly performance by the Boks….
27 Aug 2012, 10:22 am
@sharks_lover-143: Good one,
I also rate Lambie , but why is it that Plum prefured the Frenchie. Lambie is in what, his 3 year and there’s still debate if he is 10 or 15. Lambie had terrible final, he seem to lack confidence.
Him along with Vermaak and others, must be released to play cc
Plum has a history with playing players all over, to the detrement of the player.
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