Shocking Springboks must break shackles
27 Aug 2012
MARK KEOHANE, in his weekly Business Day newspaper column, says Heyneke Meyer’s game plan and playing philosophy is simply not good enough.
The All Blacks lacked accuracy in attack against the Wallabies, but that was all that was missing from a New Zealand display that made South Africa’s match against Argentina look like something from the Dark Ages.
If what the All Blacks produced in Auckland was high octane, then in Mendoza there was nothing more than grunt and growl. It was a shocker and the Springboks were the most shocking of the two teams.
Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer has spoken of the need to win every weekend. He has spoken of mental toughness and the search for excellence. He has spoken of the potential greatness of players. Actions have always been more significant than words and the player actions in Mendoza, just like in Port Elizabeth in the third Test against England, were a contradiction on everything being said. The 20 minutes we saw against England in Johannesburg’s second Test was a hint of the potential within our rugby, but even that 20 minutes looks a decade ago when compared to the intensity and pace of the effort from New Zealand, the current world champions and without doubt the team setting the standards.
I thought the Australians were woeful as an attacking unit and there was no threat they’d get five points let alone a victory. They defended bravely and showed a desire for the scrap but they were simply beaten up in the collisions and given a rugby lesson.
This is a very good All Blacks team, stronger now than when they edged France to win the World Cup last October. Richie McCaw and Dan Carter will be managed carefully through to the next World Cup but the succession plan of Sam Cane and Aaron Cruden is already in motion. Very little else will change from now to 2015 so those who talk of the All Blacks being a side in decline in 2015 think again. The back three will be at their peak and so too a midfield that will include Sonny Bill Williams. The All Blacks have integrated as many players new players into the system as the Boks have. Two new locks, a new loose forward, a new scrumhalf and variations on the wing. The only position where there is no definitive answer in relation to 2015 is at hooker. They’re in a healthy position and they’re not making any excuses about World Cup hangovers, lack of desire, retirements, inexperience or players coming to terms with the demands of international rugby. They’ve set standards, especially on defence, and to keep two sides of the standing of Ireland and Australia scoreless this year is the kind of action that accompanies any talk of excellence.
The All Blacks were not precise in their attack in Auckland, but that will always be a possibility with the type of high risk, high tempo and absolutely enthralling game they play. In Auckland they offloaded in the tackle 30 times and most of the offloads were effective in advancing the play, sustaining flow, continuity and ensuring momentum. If you tuned in at 9:35am to Auckland and happened to be watching the same rugby channel 12 hours later you could excused for thinking that what was on offer from Mendoza was part of the ESPN Classic packages. My god it was awful.
All Blacks coach Steve Hansen, on reflection, spoke of the physicality of South Africa and Argentina, whom the All Blacks play next in Wellington. He said it was like watching two rhinos go at each other all afternoon.
His reference to rhino reminded me of former Wallabies coach Rod Macqueen’s rhino reference to the then Springbok coach Harry Viljoen. Macqueen and Viljoen are good mates and they were on a Safari outing when they saw Rhino. Macqueen said: ‘Look Harry there’s your team … big, strong and f**king dumb’.
The Boks certainly moved on from the dummy tag in 2007 thanks to the approach and thinking of some very special players, but the limited quality of player on display in Mendoza is no excuse for the kind of rugby produced.
Meyer, as coach, picks the side and determines game strategy and playing philosophy. What we saw in Port Elizabeth and Mendoza is simply not good enough, in intent, in ambition and in principle.
No player picks himself and not one Springbok in Mendoza would make a current World XV. That’s a reality but it is no excuse to draw to Argentina because no Pumas player would make a World XV either.
Mendoza should be a watershed moment for Meyer, who doesn’t want for rugby intellect but needs to be challenged to break his own shackles of conservatism.
The obvious reaction is to take fire at the players, but that would be misguided. Meyer is the one in charge and a team is a reflection of a coach. If the coach expected more of his players in Mendoza then I – like every South African rugby supporter – expected more of Meyer at this juncture.
860 Comments
27 Aug 2012, 09:53 am
Reading stuff over the weekend following the test reminds me of a joke I once heard…
Man sits on the couch and scream: “Liefie, Liefie! Bring my gou ‘n bier voor die kak begin!”
Perplexed the woman goes to the fridge, gets a beer and takes it to her husband…
10 minutes later the same thing: “Liefie, Liefie! Bring my gou ‘n bier voor die kak begin!”
Now slightly irritated the woman goes to the fridge, and gets another beer for her husband…
10 minutes later, he again goes: “Liefie, Liefie! Bring my gou ‘n bier voor die kak begin!”
By this time the woman is fed up and asks: “Watse ****** kak?”
To which the man replied: “Ag bliksem, daar begin dit!”
I said from the moment Meyer was appointed he will be okay until his first loss, and although this was not a loss it seems people view it as such.
Now that it has happened, I reckon ‘Die kak het begin’
27 Aug 2012, 09:54 am
What’s the latest on Juan Smith??????????? Any miraculous comeback sometime soon?
27 Aug 2012, 09:56 am
@PissAnt-1:
Do you reckon cr@p is hitting the fan because of the result, or because of the playing style and some dubious selections?
27 Aug 2012, 09:58 am
@wpstormerbok-3:
His playing style has been the same for the last 4 tests, his selections were ‘shocking’ to many from the word go.
You can always ‘justify’ it while you are winning, but as soon as you hit the first stumbling block, the ‘I told you so’ crowd rears their heads.
27 Aug 2012, 10:00 am
It took the English only 2 goes before they decided to man up and shut Boks down.
It took the Argies only 1 match to figure it out.
27 Aug 2012, 10:00 am
@wpstormerbok-3: The current players seem to have lots of heart and lots of strength but are lacking brains. This combined with the international inexperience of certain players doesn’t help.
27 Aug 2012, 10:02 am
The problem is the rest of the rugby world is moving ahead of us fast. We have already played four tests with this coach and instead of things getting better, they are getting worse.
Flo could have been used as a fetcher, but the breakdown is a problem for all the see yet he is so obsessed with size that he has forgotten the importance of winning the ball first. When we do get hard earned ball it is kicked away aimlessly. I’m worried as our rugby is regressing fast under this man…
27 Aug 2012, 10:03 am
@PissAnt-4:
So, just to be clear, where to you stand in terms of the playing style & selections made by HM so far?
I for one believe many would’ve been much more patient with his team if there was an intent to use the ball more effectively and not just hoist it high after we’ve gained 5 meters after 10 phases simply because we’re never running into space, always going for contact and going to ground with the ball at the slightest hint of being touched.
27 Aug 2012, 10:05 am
@Lions_Soutie-6:
We certainly have the players.
But at the moment it’s like forcing a right handed person to write an essay with left hand.
27 Aug 2012, 10:06 am
@Lions_Soutie-2: More importantly, how’s Brussouw? …..Oh sorry, he won’t get selected even if top fit, might give away a penalty, unlike Flip vdM….Nah, we’re just going to run over the Blacks with brick outhouses like Potgieter, not that the tactic has ever worked before, but you never know, it might this time.
27 Aug 2012, 10:07 am
‘like watching two rhinos go at each other the whole afternoon’
LMAO – v amusing
27 Aug 2012, 10:09 am
I watched till halftime…. then i decided to watch my pc defrag…
27 Aug 2012, 10:15 am
@wpstormerbok-8:
Of course I have my own opinions on player selections and game direction we are taking.
But it is impossible to judge Meyer and I cannot believe people are already calling for him to be sacked.
I am not surprised, hence my first post as I expected it, but its still daft.
My opinion on Meyer is that we can only really make an educated judgment on his reign by this time next year in the Rugby Championship.
27 Aug 2012, 10:17 am
Losing ball at the rucks is a sign of a team in disarray. Argies are known for spoiling, why didn’t Heyneke prepare the team for this. Why can’t the on-field captain make the change to commit more players to the rucks.
JW’s best quality is that his teams were well-drilled in the basics. Is this so hard to achieve?
@Stiff-arm-10: I think the whole country agrees that Potgieter doesn’t offer much but bulk. Rather move Alberts to 7 and have Vermeulan at 8 with a proper fetcher at 6.
27 Aug 2012, 10:18 am
How I dream of a Bok who runs…
at speed
into space
with support players on each shoulder
with an intent and eye for and oppurtunity pop and flick or simply distribute to either his left or right side
27 Aug 2012, 10:19 am
@PissAnt-1:
the kak started before this result. this result was foreseen due to wayward selections and a clear intent to play very simple and uninspiring rugby with limited players.
27 Aug 2012, 10:21 am
Our inability to keep the ball off the ground against a very good fetching side hurt us. It’ll hurt us again when we play the ABs who are the best counter-rucking side in the world. An open-sider is not the answer to this problem (although one would be helpful in slowing the opposition’s ball down). Watching our giant forward go to ground time after time was painful and was in stark contrast to the 30 or so offloads made by the ABs on the weekend.
Our backline should have done more with the quality ball that they had (albeit on a width-reduced pitch). Meyer needs to show a bit of courage and pick ball players like Willie Le Roux, Paul Jordaan and Robert Ebersohn all of whom have genuine pace, vision and distribution skills, though he should start by picking a flyhalf who has the ability to attract defenders (Steyn literally repels them).
Being conservative and STILL not getting a result is simply unacceptable. Surely Meyer has something better to serve us than this drivel.
27 Aug 2012, 10:24 am
i suppose it took meyer 3 years before the bulls delivered. we’re obviously expecting a bit too much too soon. they may be ready by 2015.
27 Aug 2012, 10:24 am
@PissAnt-13:
In a perfect world that would be the fair way to do of course.
I for one am not calling for his head just yet even though I’m not very optimistic about where we’re going.
But Heyneke’s adamant it’s not the system it’s the players not executing in proper.
My opinion is he’s got it wrong but he’s the guy in the Green n Gold blazer who took the Bulls out the doldrums to a champion team.
So ja, we’ll see.
27 Aug 2012, 10:26 am
Meyer is an okay coach, good manager and a kak selector.
His selections are going ti sink him – Potgieter ffs
27 Aug 2012, 10:27 am
@wpstormerbok-8: I don’t necessarily have a problem with the Hoist Gameplan (though it’s not what I would have chosen), my problem is that the game plan is inconsistent with the players chosen…
How can you justify the selection of a specialist ball-carrying loose trio, and then adopt a game plan that relies on anything BUT ball carrying? Why pick a scrumhalf whose strength is with ball in hand and then tell him to kick? If we’re going to persist with this game plan (and by no means do I think we should) then it stands to reason that we HAVE to have Brussouw!
I mean, what exactly is the game plan?
1. get the ball (through luck I suppose)
2. Kick a HUGE up and under that lands just outside their 22.
3. Use specialist ball chasing wings such as Basson to challenge for the ball in the air.
3.1 If he wins the ball, get quick ball out of the rucks to a forward such as Alberts, as their backline is staggered and their forwards are offside.
3.2 If the wing doesnt get the ball, tackle the ball carrier, use a fetcher to turn over while their forwards are offside. He will either win the ball in which case you go back to 3.1, or he will force a penalty which you kick over.
It’s not pretty, but its effective. Ingredients from one we made earlier? Fourie du Preez kicking, Basson/JP Pietersen chasing, Brussouw fetching, Bismarck/Schalk/Beast bashing and Percy Montgomery/Morne Steyn converting.
Am I seeing this right?
27 Aug 2012, 10:28 am
@wpstormerbok-19:
I said it before and I will again.
Meyer is arguably the best coach (going on CV’s of all of them in the last 15 years) to coach the Bok side.
IMO however, he will fail for the exact same reasons all of those before him did.
27 Aug 2012, 10:29 am
@ArtVandelay-17:
Leave those players with the franchises. They would not look any better with the current Bok gameplan. Meyer will just coach all the brilliance out of them.
27 Aug 2012, 10:36 am
Ok at least HM said they werent good enough. Id like to see how he will fix this regarding: Tactics/gameplan and player selection.
Imo there cant be too many excuses. The gameplan didnt work, so change it. The squad can be better so pick the right players and drop those who arent good enough or out of form.
HMs first lesson will be that you have to adapt quickly. Loyalty to players who arent bringing him success wont help him keep his job, neither is the constant belief in an ineffective gameplan.
He said when he was appointed he will make mistakes. He only had a few games as bok coach, but its a perfect time to learn from his mistakes and adapt! SA’s rugby republic is too unforgiving for him to stay on this road.
Imo everybody is freaking out prematurely. If HM doesnt show that he is learning from his mistakes THEN id say its time to get worried. For now its clear HM is making mistakes, lets hope he’s a compitant coach who can fix those mistakes.
27 Aug 2012, 10:38 am
@pokkel-23: Alas, a very fair point. The gameplan is problem #1 here. I want to believe that HM can do better, but almost everything he’s done so far suggests otherwise. Another stark comparison with the ABs is the quality of our assistant coaches. The annoying thing is that South Africa seems littered with under-used rugby brains (Carel du Plessis, Brendan Venter, Nick Mallet, Jimmy Stonehouse etc.) yet HM picked those jokers…
27 Aug 2012, 10:39 am
@PissAnt-22: he’ll fail because he’s a bum coach.. what other excuses you wanna offord him?
If he don’t fail and he succeeds then he’s a good coach, but if he fails he’s a bum coach and no other ulterior excuse is going to condone his so called supreme rugby CV.
White was a mediocre coach who succeeded purely because when push came to shove he realized he did NOT have the wherewithal on his own or within his ranks to pull the thing off, so he enlisted brains and strategies outsaide of his own narrow confines of inadequate thinking to give him the latitude by which to think outside of the box.
PdV had to axe his captain who was weighing his entire team down and move on from the dour dead end street game plan insisted on by his set in their ways pre programmed rugby charges and forge ahead. he couldn’t do so, hence he failed.. White succeeded because he realized he wasn’t big enough on his own to go into battle alone and enlisted professional help which worked ultimately.
Meyer will either fail or succeed on the strength and capacity of both his character and his rugby ingenuity.. if he’s lacking in either or both, then he’s a weak coach, if he can overcome his penchant for rigidity and too much intense structure and desire for his own pre programmed idea of perfection, then he might become a good international coach, otherwise this job is too big for him, and he hit his ceiling at coaching a super franchise to success with a bevy of assistants and professional input from consultant strategists like Tod Louden etc..
27 Aug 2012, 10:39 am
@Tarlo-21: Absolutely correct, I never could understand this obsession of picking thoroughbreds to do donkey work. How you can decide on a kick-chase game and then not select Basson is beyond me, and while you’re at it, get JP Nel in the midfield, no one can bash it up like him. Proper donkeys to do donkey work
27 Aug 2012, 10:40 am
@PissAnt-22:
I’m gonna speculate and say you reckon he’ll bow to public pressure?
He’s between a rock and a hard place at the moment though, and so are we as the supporters.
Even though Meyer and Div are complete opposites in terms of personalities I believe Heyneke has the same weakness when it comes to communicating through the media to the fans on why we’re playing the way we are and getting buy-in from the public to give his side more leeway.
27 Aug 2012, 10:40 am
The problem with the boks at the moment in my opinion asi have said in another blog HM is playing players who just make as test players and they are borderline ie-Kirchener,Jdup,Beast,Coetzee,(at the moment M Steyn,FSteyn)
He also playing players who are not up to test standard ie
Mvovo,Strauss,Bekker,Potgeiter(but as tac says potties is just a stop gap)
Habana and DeVilliers should retire immediately as we are now getting to the same situation Snor was in with smit,playing players who are past their sell by date.
For me only Alberts who is not a No 8 and hougaard who is still the best No9 in SA rugby and Etsebeth who has still a long wat to go to fill Bakkies place done themselves any justice on saturday.
It is so clear HM HAS to bring in brussouw or stegmann to play atNo6 as they are the best fetchers in SA rugby and would bring a balance to the forwards.I never assessed the subs,but i think the only one there who could be a genuine test player is Flip Vd Merwe.
My assessment of the present bok team in my opinion i think is a fair one and if i am right HM has big problems with this squad of players,and he will achieve nothing with this lot.I hope i am wrong and i will gladly eat humble pie if i am proved wrong.
27 Aug 2012, 10:40 am
@PissAnt-22: Yes Morne he will, for being close minded and naive
If you you throw all your eggs into 1 basket ( as per his 1 game plan) then you will always have trouble.
HIs subs when we were in trouble during the match shows no other plans available, thats the big concern
27 Aug 2012, 10:40 am
@PissAnt-22: and what might that be?
27 Aug 2012, 10:40 am
What happenened on Saturday, had to happen, it was a a wake-up call of note for Mr Meyer. We are still unbeaten against ARG, Meyer is still unbeaten after 5 games in charge, and he has woken up this morning surely realizing that we cannnot continue with this kick and chase rugby gameplan, and we cannot outmuscle guys that are just as as big, just as strong and spend just as much time in the gym as what we do.
Now, we have some major injuries, and we are not as well stocked in reserve depth as we let ourselves believe halfway through the Super rugby tournament. Bissie, Burger, Smith, a Fit Bekker, Brussouw, a Fit Goosen, JPP, an availalbe Kankowski and J Fourie would have made things so much easier.
But we can move on from here at least. Mr Meyer has to. He needs to get rid of Steyn. He needs to start with Pienaar and move Hougaard to the wing. Potgieter and Kirchner is not international standard. He needs to get players with X-Factor, pleyers that read the game e.g. Eberson, Lambie, W Le Roux, Daniel, De Jongh, Aplon involved. He needs to balance the back row, he needs to play players that are fit and without niggles and he needs to drop ill-diciplined players e.g. Jannie and Flip to teach them a lesson.
Winning ugly is not something anybody prefers, but it does shut us up for at least a week, losing ugly (lets be honest – Saturdays draw hurts more than any loss in the last 8 years of Int rugby) is unacceptable!!! Man up Meyer, the problem lies with what you want these guys to do!!
27 Aug 2012, 10:43 am
In my opinion the boks will lose with this gameplan every time they do not (or cannot) impose their forward pack on the opposition. This style of rugby that Heyneke is dishing out relies heavily on your forward pack dominating. And guess what, even the Ausies can control (even if illegally) a bok pack these days.
He needs to change tack and get rid of Morne Steyn for once and for all.
27 Aug 2012, 10:46 am
How can anyone in their right mind still insist that the kick-chase gameplan works despite seeing the horrible results week in week out. Heyneke seems to think that fixing the breakdown will solve all out problems. Why? So Hougaard can pass the ball to Morne so he boots it to the opposition? Then we may as well just give it to them at the breakdown if we want to tackle all day!
27 Aug 2012, 10:47 am
Come on guys….3 or 4 more up-and-unders and a few more box-kicks and the argies would have imploded from the sheer brilliance of our execution!!
27 Aug 2012, 10:48 am
@Tarlo-21:
The game plan is just as wrong as a violation of human rights.
How to beat the Boks –
Your back 3 must be well equipped with taking up and unders, as well as show a willingness to counter-attack from these 50/50 balls which gives them a chance to run at a scattered Defense.
When the Boks do decide to run you simply gang tackle their premier ball runners.
This will stop them from getting over the adv line and they can charge the carrier with all their might as the Boks don’t pose any threat of offloading to take advance of the extra space created by more players committing to the tackle erea.
27 Aug 2012, 10:49 am
@logie_Jumpbuck-31:
Pressure of the job, and expectation.
Problem is, we (unlike NZ for instance) expect miracles from our Bok coaches by beating the best in the world consistently, without giving them the tools to do so.
The coach’s names change, the script stays the same.
Before long, SA Rugby will put together an ‘expert panel’ (of teachers and accountants) and call him in to explain himself. Journalists and scribes will latch onto his most obvious ‘perceived’ weakness which is already in full swing if you follow social media about his provincial affiliation.
Somewhere down the line a union supporters forum or union will demand him being sacked and before you know it, his transformation scorecard will be called into question.
I mean I am already reading how he should be sacked for his ignorance and poor selections and he is yet to lose a test match!
Got to love SA Rugby.
27 Aug 2012, 10:49 am
The problem with Springbok rugby does not start with HM, it starts with the structures and player development at the lower echelons. Everybody on here wants the Bokke to dominate at international level when in all honesty the game has moved on and the South African playing culture has remained the same. We instill a fear of losing into players from a young age and a need to dominate by force individually rather than collectively and with speed, skill and guile. What better way to beat your opposition than to outwit them on a rugby but instead we look to use brawn and it starts at the age group level where we celebrate a 65 meter penalty or a 70 meter punt more than off the ball support running and running good lines etc.
27 Aug 2012, 10:49 am
The problem with our gameplan which consists of little more than trying to run over opposition forwards, and kicking the ball in the air and hoping for the best, is that it is considered to be “playing to our traditional strenghts”.
Does no-one in the coaching staff realise this is rather a “traditional weakness”. In two decades of this nonsense we barely reached a 60% wining ratio against all opposition, which is shocking for a country with our resources, and definitely does not constitute a “strength”.
27 Aug 2012, 10:49 am
The fact is rugby has evolved and HM has stayed behind it seems.
Teams that are greata at the moment are teams holding onto the ball, winning the collusions points and spreading the ball yet defensively excellent.
You dont even have to thrash you opponents in the scrums, just atleast have parity, so to the scrums,
Important that the Forwards and backs are on the same page and have the skills to match etc…
CHiefs , Sharks , Saders, Reds thse are the teams playing like this, well prolly all the kiwi teams play like this.
Yes of course where needed to Kiwis etc kick too, BUT IT IS NEVER THEIR ONLY OPTION
27 Aug 2012, 10:52 am
Yep White took everyone – and I mean everybody – and he came out top. He did what every siccesful coach or person does – identify and collate tge best from all around him – but he carried tge can, he stuck to it and ge lifted tge trophy, and he’s doing it all over again at tge brumbies.
27 Aug 2012, 10:53 am
if i may,some of the best players is not even on the field and we dont have a bakkies or jaun smith in that team.i wish someone would start playing that agressor role that we miss dearly.dit was a kak game ,kannie glo ek het dit klaar gekyk nie,kies die regte span meyer,en hou op skop asb.
27 Aug 2012, 10:55 am
Hougaard is not the answer at 9… Worst pass in SA and bad decision making… Play him at wing or off the bench… Give Lambie a go at 10… And tell Bekker and Strauss to stop standing in the backline and get stuck in…
27 Aug 2012, 10:56 am
I do not know if the travelling affected the argies at newlands but their forwards gave ours a lesson and at home as well even thpugh we won.On saturday the argies front row completely stuffed the boks front row and it showed that if our forwards come up against a team who can take them on up front the boks are on the back foot.When i see the likes of roncero i think he is 36 and the rest of his forward pack outmuscling our forwards and our scrum getting stuffed it just shows the rest of the rugby world we have a powder-puff pack that is going nowhere fast.
27 Aug 2012, 10:56 am
They can play the offload game, play into space, get a running flyhalf and even change the gameplan – it might help a little but they will still lose – it’s a granted they will be motivated under meyer – but it will ultimately all come down to selections, get those wrong, even 1 or 2 and you will lose – Boks can win as was done in s15 but have to pick players to do so.
27 Aug 2012, 10:58 am
If Meyer cannot ditch this archaic neanderthal game plan of so called Springbok strength rugby instituted through Streauli and White and then passed on through the 2007 WC team to PdV and now firmly embraced and religiously adopted by Meyer (which as a stupendous fable of mammoth proportions , because it is NOT our traditional strength, running ball in hand rugby is) then he will fail in this job..
If Boks cannot get out of this straight jacket they have firmly shackled themselves hand and foot with called kick and chase rugby, then they are finished.. and Heyneke Meyer will likely lose far more than he will ever win.., and I don’t give him more than one season in this job.. if that?
He will HAVE to chuck this sinking ship of kick chase rugby out the back door and move on entrusting his players to play to their strenths which is NOT play without the ball defense wins games garbage.
That the only way Meyer will succeed, if he is bold and brave enough to realize kick chase rugby is a derelict relic of the past and can NOT offer any proactive progressive way forward, then he might succeed, but he will have to make that decision in his mind, that kick chase rugby is dead, and Boks have to play a more direct proactive game.
27 Aug 2012, 10:59 am
@logie_Jumpbuck-33: agree morne is not good ,sowhat if he played well last week.get goosen in asap.
27 Aug 2012, 11:02 am
I wish we had someone like roncero who is one mean son of a gun as a prop in the bok front row,as he is a genuine test player who takes no **** from anyone.
27 Aug 2012, 11:02 am
@PissAnt-37: Pissant, I’ve always enjoyed your posts (over the last 6years of reading Keo) and your obviously a very insightful rugby supporter, however. I must disagree with you here. Meyer, in all his wisdom, is trying to play a game plan that worked miracles before the rules changed in 2010. The breakdown (read defending team) were favoured under those rules. It’s the other way around now, and yet we still insist n playing THAT game.
Oh, and regarding SA supporters expectations…I think it is exactly the same in NZ, if not more so. How can they manage an 85% winning record, yet we cannot? Explain that and you have fixed all our problems in bok rugby.
27 Aug 2012, 11:04 am
He’s trying to pick players that won’t give away penalties but as a result the Boks are getting owned, and in desperation to win some ball they are having to step out their comfort zone, the exact opposite is happening and they are getting pinged.
Selections, selections, selections.
Boks have now got a real problem tho – brussow and kolisi are down, neither elstadt or fourie are in the squad and vermeulen is not match-sharp.
27 Aug 2012, 11:07 am
‘Look Harry there’s your team … big, strong and f**king dumb’.
Classic, thats exactly what Ive been seeing
27 Aug 2012, 11:09 am
The IRB’s trial Law limiting the time the ball can be cleared from a ruck once it becomes available will force a change of thinking.
I see kick and chase being the 1st choice option.
27 Aug 2012, 11:10 am
@blueboy(29) you’re an idiot
27 Aug 2012, 11:10 am
a coach cannot chop and change players from week to week, has everyone forgotten strauli? Consistency in selection is very important.
Personally, all Meyer really can do at the moment is shuffle players around considering the injuries. And we are pretty short at backrowers, how does one find balance in the context of the unit when almost every backrower is injured?
Given the situation…..Juandre Kruger to start and bekker to the bench. Flip gets dropped. Potgieter and Coetzee to play off the bench.
6.Daniels
7.Alberts
8. Whomever the hell is availible? Possibly vermuelen will be ready in 2 weeks?
9.Pienaar to start with hougaard replacing mvovo on the wing who then drops from the match 22. Personally I thought mvovo needs to do a lot more off the ball and inparticular some of our kicks were very good but with a very poor chase and contest. Basson would be there but he too is injured.
Other possible options include Kirchener off the bench with Lambie starting at 15 or Kirchener moved out altogether with Aplon adding x-factor off the bench.
I’d also like to see elton jantjies on the bench and given a go, he’s playing some awesome rugby at the minute.
so basically
1. beest who seriously needs to pull finger
2. straaus
3. jannie
4.etsbeth who needs to be at the ruck more
5. kruger whom hopefully brings some lineout composure and confidence
6. daniels whom hopefully adds some balance
7. alberts
8. vermuelen
9. pienaar
10. morne
11.habana
12. stenyn
13. devilliers
14. hougaard
15. lambie
16. liebenberg
17. a prop
18. potgieter
19. coetzee
20. bekker
21.aplon
22. jantjies
there. a match 22 with plenty of consistency in selection but a couple of changes that add grunt and balance in our backrow with a sustained 80 minute effort coming from the bench and a lot more x-factor amongst the backs.
27 Aug 2012, 11:11 am
@Brads-52:
I see for SA it being the only option
27 Aug 2012, 11:14 am
I want to believe that HM will change his strategy. Next few weeks will be interesting. Where is Rassies input in all of this?!
As loyal spectators the critisism against players can be justified.
Potgieter,
Flip,
Kirchner,
Daniel are not good enough, not for the bok jersey. Injured players can hopefully eleviate this problem.
MSteyn is out of form in a bad way and his confidence is low. It would be a disservice to him to keep him playing especially against the ABs! And JDV looks tired…
Lambie has a cool head and with a calm Pienaar beside him (and he showed that he is much more mature and calm these days) he could make a huge diffirence.
Brussouw can not be denied a starting spot when fit again.
27 Aug 2012, 11:14 am
@Tarlo-21: I agree completely.
I would have preferred coaches picking the best players in their respective positions (based on form) and then deciding on the best game plan that suites these players.
But I think this is just a fantasy. If you are gonna be so single minded in your game plan, then pick the players that best suits that game plan.
27 Aug 2012, 11:14 am
Just read Wayne Smith s latest article.. Speaks about how important opposition kicks are as a source of possession.. Hell, when the ABs play the Boks, they may not even worry about kick offs and line outs, just wait for them to kick the ball to us… New Zealanders should be proud… ABS miles ahead i reckon…
27 Aug 2012, 11:14 am
If Potgieter and Strauss are in the next team selection we will lose the next match. Coetzee is overratted as a hardened test looseforward – this is not a rhino Bok team at all. Etsebeth is fantastic but they need an enforcer – that is central to any rhino pack.
27 Aug 2012, 11:15 am
@PissAnt-37: “Problem is, we (unlike NZ for instance) expect miracles from our Bok coaches by beating the best in the world consistently, without giving them the tools to do so.”
i hope you are NOT suggesting that Argentina are the “world’s best”
27 Aug 2012, 11:15 am
@daydreamer-53:
How very analytical of you.
27 Aug 2012, 11:16 am
NZ = 84% winning record
SA = on average (60%).
Why is it that we cannot do the same? We were equals pre-isolation and it’s got nothing to do with race. What changed? Are they just physically superior? Polynesians are by nature of genes bigger and stronger. Is that it? Like black sprinters are naturally bigger and faster and white swimmers and naturally better swimmers than black swimmers?
27 Aug 2012, 11:17 am
@ArtVandelay-17:
Re: Morne steyn –
The most disgraceful part of this game was on our line when M Steyn tackled their loosies and Andries bekker just stood there watching. The smallest guy taking down one of the giants with our own giant just watching on.
Not 1 lineout steal in 2 tests agains Argentina. Victor would never have settled for this.
27 Aug 2012, 11:18 am
Everyone on this website is an armchair coach who thinks he knows best,i di not include myself as i do not pick bok teams on this site.If i can see it surely you lot must see it and HM must see it the of the quality of players he is selecting about 8 of them are either not good enough or by their sell-by date,and as long as he keeps selecting them the boks will win nothing.He has to change his tactics and then pick the right players in the right positions in his estimation to carry out his tactics.He has to bring in new young players to learn their international trade and the sooner the better,and get rid of all the deadwood in the bok team.
27 Aug 2012, 11:21 am
So KEO are you still saying no more Morne bashing???? Your 10 needs to make the opposition backline nervous!!
The key to success is 3 fold besides the other basics. Solid front row, balanced trio for the breakdown and an exciting half back pairing.
We lack in all 3 and thats purely down to selections
27 Aug 2012, 11:22 am
@blueboy-29:
i have to disagree regarding flip. he’s lost the bulls and boks more games than he contributed positively. He is not fit to tie the great bakkies botha’s shoelaces and I hope the new chap the bulls bought from the lions is the real deal because Flip is not and will never be.
27 Aug 2012, 11:24 am
@Bok fan-51: us kiwis have ben saying it for years.. but then, you guys seem to hang on what ever Aussies are saying these days…
@logie_Jumpbuck-62: its because we have smarts, and our philosophy is one of running the ball, add to that the way we structure our junior rugby and it is a winning formula…
the polynesian influx is nothing more than a strawman theory.. it is the encouragement at an early age to run with and to “make the ball do all the work” approach coupled with weight for age grouping that teaches youngsters to develop the ability to offload, to run into space, to develop a sidestep often on both feet.. playing people your own size and weight means you have to think of ways to beat a man, rather than just hand the ball to the big lump and let him charge into contact..
fact is, since isolation ended your overall win percentage has been decreasing…
27 Aug 2012, 11:24 am
@onerb-63: agree, Bekker needs to step up. Again, expectation doesn’t meet the on-field performance. Not even close.
27 Aug 2012, 11:25 am
@Jeez-56: add Bekker and Eben to your list
27 Aug 2012, 11:26 am
The current Bok pack is average, which will not win test matches against similar packs away from home and will lose against better packs at home and will get annihilated by teams with better a better pack and backline – that puts you into possible 50-pointer territory.
SA has never had the depth to field a B side like the ABs can and still win, we see it time and time again on EOY tours or when sub-standard medocrity selections are made – it’s those inches that cost tge game before a balls even been kicked – u just had to look at the team selected for Argentina and u knew the argies had a very good shout.
27 Aug 2012, 11:27 am
Rugby | Springboks
Heyneke Meyer © Gallo Images
Play Bok rugby games
Get Peter de Villiers’s ‘Politically Incorrect’
Meyer must heed wake-up call
——————————————————————————–
by Gavin Rich 27 August 2012, 08:52
The All Blacks are only two points ahead of the Springboks on The Castle Rugby Championship log table but in terms of where they are as a team after just two rounds of the new competition, the gap between the leaders and the second placed nation is already a wide one.
And the way it stands, that chasm could become an unbridgeable one as early as 15 September, which is the day the All Blacks and the Boks are due to clash in what many people regard as the World Cup final that wasn’t in Dunedin.
If the Boks don’t beat Australia in Perth the week before, and New Zealand do what they should be expected to do against Argentina in Wellington, the Kiwis will have added The Championship to the Bledisloe Cup they picked up this past weekend and the race for silverware will be done and dusted with almost a month left.
Sound familiar? It’s been the usual order of things down the years in the Sanzar international competition, which was previously known as the Tri-Nations. If the Boks want to change the trend which sees New Zealand knocked off the top table as an extremely rare event, they are going to have to heed the wake-up call of Mendoza.
Up to now the impression has been created that the public and media have been prepared to give new coach Heyneke Meyer a chance. But after yet another performance which he described as unacceptable — it was also the word he used after his first of two drawn matches against England in Port Elizabeth two months ago — the time has come for the gloves to come off and for the coach to start facing a few unpalatable truths.
Firstly, the argument that the Boks are struggling not because of the game-plan but just because they are getting technical details wrong is not new. It was the excuse used to justify the last placed finish by Peter de Villiers’s team in the 2010 Tri-Nations. The Boks never had Fourie du Preez for that tournament as he was injured, and some accepted the argument that it was because he was absent that the usual Bok strategy, which relied so heavily around his kicking game, didn’t work.
The Boks haven’t had Du Preez for these first five matches of the new era under Meyer but unless he is going to be called back from Japan, which admittedly is a possibility, the coach is going to have to accept that he is not there and get on with devising a strategy that suits the players he does have there. Francois Hougaard is just not Du Preez, finish and klaar, and should not be expected to become him.
When Du Preez is not there and everything is not happening off No 9 there is also arguably no place for Morne Steyn. Everyone lauded him after the first match against Argentina at Newlands because of his goalkicking, but that was a game where the Bok forwards created such a solid platform for him that the injured Schalk Burger might have been able to fit in at pivot.
BREAKDOWN PROBLEMS
What Mendoza should have reminded Meyer, or alerted him to, is that this Bok team does not have the experienced, dominating forward pack that did the business for him when he coached the Bulls, and that means his intention of playing the way his old team did is wishful thinking.
The reason the Sharks did so well towards the end of Super Rugby was because apart from being the offload kings of a nation that generally doesn’t appear to understand the concept, they also had a flyhalf in Frederic Michalak who wasn’t schooled in the game in South Africa. That means he is used to being empowered to make decisions, and the rest of the players can play off him.
Whether it’s Johan Goosen or Patrick Lambie is a debate that should take separately from the one that must surely have been decided in Mendoza — South Africa simply cannot afford to carry on with a deep lining flyhalf who just because of where he stands takes the other players around him out of the game and whose default mechanism when the momentum isn’t there is just to put boot to ball.
Then there is what is now becoming the vexing problem of the breakdowns.
Meyer blamed slow ball from the breakdowns for his team’s failure to score four tries at Newlands, but in Mendoza that was not the only problem faced by the Boks in this phase.
Heinrich Brussow was injured when the squad for the Argentina leg of the championship was announced, but as soon as he is available Meyer needs to recall him to the squad. And if Meyer wants to argue that he can’t do that because Brussow gives away penalties, maybe he needs to do a study of how the time Flip van der Merwe spends on the field relates to the number of penalties he gives away. It’s doubtful that he will find that Brussow gives away penalties with greater regularity.
Meyer now has a few days to think about it before he names his squad for the Australasian leg, and he needs to think carefully. The All Blacks won 22-0 in Auckland against the Aussies this past weekend but they were dominant enough in that game to win 44-0.
It’s a long time since the Bulls strategy that Meyer is so fond of has worked consistently in New Zealand — it has also bombed for the Boks there since 2010 — and if he doesn’t add some innovation fast the long awaited Soweto test in October is going to be a dead rubber game for which the All Black selectors will be excused if they send out a second string team, thus robbing the occasion of meaning
27 Aug 2012, 11:28 am
Maybe play Bekker at 13 he was more creative there than JdV,
Biggest 13 in World rugby
27 Aug 2012, 11:28 am
@poppa69-67: corrent, but why? Mallet did wonders with the boks, and if I remember correctly, we LET THE BALL DO THE WORK. In fact, Henry Honniball was our best kicket and he wasn’t even that good. (Jannie de Beer made his impact only during the world cup and we know what happened there)
27 Aug 2012, 11:28 am
@Bok fan-65:
65….but who then to select in the frontrow. The only improvement would be Guthro given the injuries and it is too late to catch that boat right now. Had Meyer selected him in the first place I’m without a doubt that would have brought about another line of critisism.
And who in the backrow given the injured players as well.
the half back selection was a very logical one……a settled combination who have played together. Do you really think it is better throwing Lambie or Elton into the deepend as an international 10 away from home for a debut? For all mallets talk, he did that 14 odd years ago and ruined gaffies career and then went and hung the youngster out to dry in the press.
as i mentioned already, all Meyer really can do at the minute is play musical chairs with players that are availible.
27 Aug 2012, 11:29 am
@onerb-66: Flip is ok if he can sort out his penalty count
27 Aug 2012, 11:30 am
Excuse me, but just a piece of useless trivia…
Did I hear a commentator say on Saturday that NO PLAYER has ever scored a hattrick against the Springboks?
27 Aug 2012, 11:32 am
@onerb-66: Like most players from PTA, he is too thick for test rugby.
27 Aug 2012, 11:33 am
I had a feeling the Argies were going to come out firing this weekend. But shitballs, even I didnt expect taht onslaught.
They were ruthless and all credit must go to them, they were unlucky this weekend. The Ausies are in for a rude awakening when they tour there later on.
I back HM because I think he is the best man for the job in SA right now.
He is, however, showing remarkable inflexibility with regard to subtle changes in game plans that are requried from time to time. The boks can play a fast paced, ball in hand type game as was witnessed in Jburg vs England this year. And now he goes and reverts back to the up ‘n under plan again.
Corey Jane, Isreal Dagg, Ioane, Beale etc must be licking their lips.
27 Aug 2012, 11:33 am
@blueboy-64: If you say that you have to offer up alternative choices to the ones he has made and justify why you would select them instead. Merely suggesting he has got it wrong without qualifying why is easy.
27 Aug 2012, 11:33 am
Maybe I am Gavin Rich after all…
27 Aug 2012, 11:33 am
@logie_Jumpbuck-68:
How I long for a daniesaurus now. Coming on for Bakkies – No respite for the oppo team.
Flip doesn’t really scare anyone really and probably competes with Bekker in the lazy stakes.
27 Aug 2012, 11:34 am
@logie_Jumpbuck-62:
Nope, its all about mindset.
I am absolutely confident in my prediction that when SA beat NZ, when ever that will be, but it will happen eventually, it will also result in an out pouring of outrageous triumph about Bokke rugby being the best in the World and everyone else are turds.
27 Aug 2012, 11:34 am
Out – potgieter, Strauss, bekker, liebenberg, kirchener
benched – jannie, Coetzee, morne
don’t select – kanko
promote rallapelle (must have cos currently not a single fetcher available – should have been deon fourie), if continue to refuse elstadt have to select bakkies but he’s good for 40min max, gurthro also needs to be there even if off bench – these players push the Bok pack into a whole different stratosphere – brussow and vermeulen would only enhance that but out or not selected.
27 Aug 2012, 11:34 am
@garth-77: How many Bulls players started Saturday, how many in 2007 WC , remind me
27 Aug 2012, 11:35 am
@logie_Jumpbuck-73: loved watching Honiball play…
its not like you guys cant run with the ball, and I do remember bok teams of the past with exciting backs and scoring tries.. I do think a lot of it is the reliance on your number 9 to be your playmaker, whereas NZ and Aus often have two playmakers at both 10 and 12…
27 Aug 2012, 11:35 am
@BrumbiesBoy-76:
You know this is right, wrong, or asking?
27 Aug 2012, 11:35 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-74: Come now boet Lambie already has many tests under his belt, and is yet tp have one bad game in the green and gold.
so we just keep playing Morne and keep Lambie on the bench AND use the he is not experienced enough excuse going for the nexr 4 years??
27 Aug 2012, 11:36 am
@onerb-81: Eben will hopefully be ready next year , he did nothing Saturday
27 Aug 2012, 11:36 am
@62.logie_Jumpbuck
The main difference between NZ and RSA is that they sellect purely on form. This creates an environment where the entire team is performing at their peak and as such each player gets the oppertunity to play at high momentum and intensity for 80 minutes.
Every time one of the Bok players makes a knock-on for example, its a 2 minute break from high intensity rugby for the rest of the team. This way our players can’t improve to the level of the kiwis as they never get to be a part of rugby matches of the same quality.
On a lesser note the Fetcher is probably the 3rd most important role on the field after 10 and 9 respectively. HM’s thinking is completey misguided thinking that it is a role that has died out. Although now more challenging to do and do well than it ever was before, it has become equally more important than ever before in influence on the game (the harder it is to steal the ball without giving away penalties, the more you need specialists to do just that.)
We can only hope now that the boks don’t come 3rd out of 4. Thats the reality of the current log (and agaist the weakest Aussie pack of a decade)
27 Aug 2012, 11:37 am
If your whole world starts to crumble down around you what do you do? Thats proably how HM feels after seeing that his tactics and gameplan is not working against ARGENTINA!
Will he have a plan B or will he hardheadedly keep on with the ccrap? If he can conjure up a new strategy to get the boks going when will he implement it?
One thing is for sure. Bismark, Burger, Brussouw and Fourie are sorely missed!
And JDVs not a long term option, not as captain or 13… Bring in DEjong or Jordaan.
Expect some changes against Aus.
HM will give Pienaar the starting spot. Potgieter wont feature in the starting lineup and Steyn will be subbed after the first half.
27 Aug 2012, 11:37 am
@sharks_lover-87: So you are family with Brigadier as well , when is our reunion ?
27 Aug 2012, 11:38 am
@Brads-82: obvious troll is obvious
yep, and as 2009 proved, it only papers over the cracks and complacency sets in…
27 Aug 2012, 11:38 am
@Brads-52: well kicking will be first option for mentally-challenged coaches with only one gameplan! Other teams are currently striving to speed up ball already, so the new law will not hamper their way of doing things…
“I didn’t have anything left in that last few minutes,” All Blacks No 8 Kieran Read said after the match.
“In terms of attack I was on empty. The type of game it was, it was definitely quick, that’s probably why it took so much out of the guys.”
But if the All Blacks seemed to struggle at times to finish, Read made it clear slowing down wasn’t the way to fix the finishing.
“If the attack can’t react then definitely the defence can’t. That’s our goal to create quick ball off rucks,” he said. “Another day, we’ve got backs who would normally finish and get across the line. We’ll work on that, but we want to keep churning out quick ball.”
Smith talks as fast as he plays and believes it was white line fever rather than speed wobbles that saw chances go begging.
“Once we had that one-to-two second ball which is what we really focus on, we looked very dangerous, but when we got to five or six metres out everyone was lining up from the ruck wanting to get the try, instead of hitting the ruck to set up for the try,” he said.
“We weren’t very patient. We need to get that patience and once we’re in that golden acre great teams are able to build tries not just wanting to score off everything.” Smith credited his quick delivery to the All Blacks’ ball carriers for dominating the collision and providing the impetus for an effective cleanout from their support players.
“We based it [the game plan] on the ball carrier. We got dominated in the contact last week, but we were winning the contact [in Auckland] and that helped us get a better cleanout,” he said.
27 Aug 2012, 11:39 am
M Steyn…..
Biggest problem …
27 Aug 2012, 11:39 am
Vermaak is the only 9, that actually passes the ball without running first , Hougie and Ruan runs first.
27 Aug 2012, 11:39 am
@capebull-75:
How many years now? 3 years – if it’s not sorted out now it never will be, just ask Butch.
27 Aug 2012, 11:40 am
@outrightrugby-89: how was Piri Weepu’s “form” vs Tawera Kerr-Barlow or even TJ Perenara?
27 Aug 2012, 11:40 am
@onerb-81:
i agree, both those locks are very poor. miles away from bakkies and danie.
27 Aug 2012, 11:40 am
@grant10-94: T 5 useless biggest problem
27 Aug 2012, 11:40 am
@garth-77:
This comment really does not contribute in any way or form.
27 Aug 2012, 11:41 am
@grant10-94:
Yup
27 Aug 2012, 11:42 am
@poppa69-85:
I agree, he was a fantastic player, SA need more guys like him.
The game has moved on from the spineless showboys like Naas Botha and Allan Hewson. 2 of the most tackle shy show ponies of international pedigree.
27 Aug 2012, 11:42 am
@Brigadier Van Zyl-98: Not a single line out taken against throw .
27 Aug 2012, 11:43 am
Game was sad to watch, I don’t think a draw reflected how poorly we played. Sharks playing Bulls rugby was dull. Surely the Sharks would be better off playing Sharks rugby, or Bulls playing Bulls rugby? This mix, match team/combos really doesn’t work for me, seems either lazy or rushed. I understand the England tests, but he has had a bit of time to find his players, instead he just went for Combos again.
Just sux that it isn’t entertaining either.
27 Aug 2012, 11:43 am
@Transformation-93: I am honestly petrified of the amount of quick ball the Kiwi backs will get should we play the same loose trio as Saturday…
27 Aug 2012, 11:45 am
@capebull-91:
27 Aug 2012, 11:46 am
Silly recycled rubbish from keow. Maybe, before licking AB ring, he should read Michael Katzenellenbogen (sp) in the Sunday Tribune then comment on why the AB’s look so good. They are trained cheats. But most of us know this. SARU needs to act on them, not Meyer
Now to Meyer. He’s sadly been exposed already as a mediocre coach with limited thinking and support. It’s easy to talk about changing the Bok gameplan but I fear that Meyer does not know how to coach players for a gameplan different to the one he’s employed so far, and generally throughout his career. It’s not terrible, provided you drill your players correctly but Meyer, or his assistants, can’t seemingly even do that.
The acid test will be against Oz and the AB’s. If he can’t coach the players to good set pieces and ball competition and retention, as well as some running basics, we’re going to get hurt. Same as Strooli, White, PdV and a few limited and hamstrung coaches before them got hurt.
My view has always been that it ain’t the players. They play to, and are trained to play to, the coach’s book. Either the training is wrong or inadequate, or the book is wrong; not the players. Good leaders don’t focus on the troops and weapons, other than to have parity, they concentrate on the training and tactics.
I feel quite sorry for courageous players like Alberts, asked to run at the opposition all day with scant support. Sooner or later, he’ll get injured; then what?
27 Aug 2012, 11:46 am
@Brads-102: yep, Hewsen was indeed an turnstile in defence… much like an early Percy Montgomery… we still see them today though, one only need look at Cipriani’s or even Coopers tackling abilities (though to be fair to Cooper, he does appear to be trying to remedy this)..
27 Aug 2012, 11:46 am
Thing is, HM has at least 2 seasons to prove himself.
He definitely wont be fired afer his first season, even if we lose ever game from now.
So the period of ‘grace’ he has to try new players and be slightly more inventive and flexible is shortening with every game.
27 Aug 2012, 11:47 am
Over the last couple test matches we have proved that 1) we cannot play without an out and out fetcher! 2) Our players have been taught NOT to think for themselves and stick to a game plan for 80min!
Lambie, needs to start every game for the boks wether its at 10 or 15. Can you imagine how good he can be for us when he is 25 and he has 50 bok caps………
Duane Vermuelen needs to start at 8
Ruan Piennar reads the game better than most in world rugby……Hougaard has had a chance but think he can make a better impact off the bench
SA rugby – lets use our resources. VICTOR MATFIELD was the best line out foward of all time…..give him some money get him on the coaching staff NOW! I dont want to listen to him commentating from the side lines. THAT ADDS NO VALUE TO SA RUGBY!
27 Aug 2012, 11:49 am
@WP-Stormers-SA-104:
very true, but he really couldn’t pick any different with all the injuries.
How many bulls was in the starting team?
Kirchner – Who was not terrible
Steyn – Who had to cover for Bekker in defence(o.k, I’ll admit it, he was not good)
Potgieter – Seems to bounce off attackers quite easily for his frame size, have never seen him drive a tackler back. All huff and no puff.
Hougaard – i am seriously starting to think he is not a 9. How can anyone expect steyn to not stand in the pocket with his slow pass.
27 Aug 2012, 11:52 am
@capebull-84: 5 in 2007 and 4 on saturday, whats the point here?
27 Aug 2012, 11:53 am
@Jeez-56: Meyer should have replaced Morne in the 2nd half and brought on Lambie when Pienaar game on.
@grant10-94: Agree, then we agreed on this last year as well. So how he is still there is a travesty really. Why have Lambie on the bench and not use him? He should have replaced Morne on Saturday in the 2nd half when Pienaar came on and Hougie went to wing.
27 Aug 2012, 11:55 am
@Transformation-93:
Good comment grabs there, and I agree with the sentiments.
I will review my outlook.
27 Aug 2012, 11:55 am
Ok, maybe someone can help with me what Rassie’s role is in this coaching chaos? When he was brought in to help P Divvy last year he was hailed the miracle man who came up with the ‘strong bench’ strategy we took to the world cup….In fact he was given credit for everything the Boks did right in the WC, and P Divvy was credited with all that went wrong.
It was said the the Stormers would not end mid table after Rassie’s departure – such is his power and class in the coaching stakes…
So where is he in all this?
Another overrated rugby ‘brain’.
Meyer needed a loose cannon amongst his assistants to stir the pot and counter his extremely conservative rugby views. Maybe folk hoped Rassie, the director of whatever he is at SARU would do this? I honestly don’t think Rassie is all he is made out to be, and if he was, surely he would have clipped Meyer’s ear after the PE test….
Welkomen by die circus
27 Aug 2012, 11:56 am
@fogdog10-110: Absolute travesty leaving Lambie on the bench for two games. Not to get even 10min game time at all. I would have taken Morne off on Saturday and brought Lambie on when Pienaar came on and Hougie went to wing.
27 Aug 2012, 11:59 am
@PissAnt-13: Well, as I took you up on the Olivier bet, lets have this conversation on HM this time next year. I just wish black players and coaches were also given this ample time to prove themselves either way.
27 Aug 2012, 12:01 pm
@sharks_lover-87:
lambie has many tests under his belt?
how many . 7. at fullback?
come on. Sure, a player has to debut sometime but at least let it be at home.
27 Aug 2012, 12:02 pm
so? anyone still think we can win this year’s Rugby championship?
27 Aug 2012, 12:02 pm
@Puma-113:
As long as M Steyn is at 10 the Boks backs will be ineffective. That you can take to the Bank…
27 Aug 2012, 12:03 pm
@Brads-86: Asking.
27 Aug 2012, 12:04 pm
Changes needed against OZ
Vermuelen at 8
Alberts 7
Daniel 6
Piennar 9
Lambie 10
27 Aug 2012, 12:05 pm
@XhosaKid-117:
twakkie was given 4 years.
he was also given a side with almost no selection issues and plenty of experience.
the exact opposite situation to the current one.
Basically, Twakkie buggered up our springbok rugger infrastructure in his 4 years, now the new coach is having to get it sorted with 10 or so of his preffered match 22 out injured.
27 Aug 2012, 12:05 pm
@grant10-120: I know and we have both agreed on that last year already.
Now heard ths morning (it could be a rumour and hope it is) that Jantjies is heading to Sharks next year. Now what? Are we gonna play Lambie at fb? I really hope not. Lambie is a terrific fh and that is where I want to see him play for Sharks. Also think having two great fhs at the Sharks is a waste for SA rugby. Let Jantjies go to the Province where he will probably start in every game.
27 Aug 2012, 12:07 pm
Yeah have to agree – I didn’t see any evidence on Saturday of a team who is supposedly benefiting from one of the finest technical analysts in the game.
27 Aug 2012, 12:08 pm
@poppa69-67: Brussow had to perform miracles to break the mold and get selected.
As they always a problem in SA, I would never have our 10s kick for poles. The added responsibility seems to be too much. Pienaar would have been the next Larkham and looked great at 10 but missed kicks so he was sacked. Butch played his best rugby when Monty was kicking and I think the same would be the case if Lambie was at 10 without having to kick for goals.
These 2 areas have been our biggest problem and made us look like rhinos over the years….
27 Aug 2012, 12:09 pm
@grant10-120: At least in any game where there is parity amongst the forwards or we are being beaten upfront Morne will struggle because he drops back into the pocket. Also when fielding kicks in space his natural instinct is to hoof it up instead of linking with support runners and counter attacking.
I’m also surprised at the lack of mobility amongst our forwards in getting up there in support of the ball carriers. Noticed that our pack weighed something like 962 kgs versus the Argies 892 and we go shunted around and its all down to getting numbers to the breakdown.
27 Aug 2012, 12:10 pm
@fogdog10-122: Would be a whole lot better. But is Vermuelen game ready? I never watched Province cc game this weekend or last weekend either. So have no idea how ready Vermuelen is yet.
I just like a faster 8. Would have been great to have had Kanko for the away leg to Oz and Nz. But if he can’t make it and Vermuelen is ready then he has to come. He is good but a little slow. Hope Brussow is ready to tour though. Think we will need him.
27 Aug 2012, 12:10 pm
Where is Derrick Hougaard, surely we can’t lose with two Hougaards on the field, can we?
27 Aug 2012, 12:10 pm
@Bok fan-126:
that’s an interesting point and i could well agree.
maybe frans steyn for poles?
27 Aug 2012, 12:11 pm
Let’s just hope we see a better display from our beloved Springboks next time round. If we lose our next game the graph would show a natural curve downwards……performance graphs and pie-sheets don’t lie you know.
27 Aug 2012, 12:11 pm
Aaron Smith’s speed a highlight for All Blacks
Little guy, big impact: Aaron Smith has helped shift the All Blacks’ attack into hyper speed.
There will be further frustration in the All Blacks’ camp after they bombed up to eight try-scoring opportunities during their 22-0 win over the Wallabies on Saturday night.
But behind the angst is excitement at the possibilities their nippy halfback is opening up with his ability to clear the ball at pace.
Australian halfback Will Genia said it was among the toughest test he had played and lock Nathan Sharpe labelled it the best All Black performance he had faced since 2003.
And it wasn’t just the Wallabies feeling the pinch in a test that was as fast as it was physical.
“I didn’t have anything left in that last few minutes,” All Blacks No 8 Kieran Read said after the match.
“In terms of attack I was on empty. The type of game it was, it was definitely quick, that’s probably why it took so much out of the guys.”
But if the All Blacks seemed to struggle at times to finish, Read made it clear slowing down wasn’t the way to fix the finishing.
“If the attack can’t react then definitely the defence can’t. That’s our goal to create quick ball off rucks,” he said. “Another day, we’ve got backs who would normally finish and get across the line. We’ll work on that, but we want to keep churning out quick ball.”
Smith talks as fast as he plays and believes it was white line fever rather than speed wobbles that saw chances go begging.
“Once we had that one-to-two second ball which is what we really focus on, we looked very dangerous, but when we got to five or six metres out everyone was lining up from the ruck wanting to get the try, instead of hitting the ruck to set up for the try,” he said.
“We weren’t very patient. We need to get that patience and once we’re in that golden acre great teams are able to build tries not just wanting to score off everything.” Smith credited his quick delivery to the All Blacks’ ball carriers for dominating the collision and providing the impetus for an effective cleanout from their support players.
“We based it [the game plan] on the ball carrier. We got dominated in the contact last week, but we were winning the contact [in Auckland] and that helped us get a better cleanout,” he said.
27 Aug 2012, 12:11 pm
@Bok fan-126:
I will bet that as long as Spies is out they will not play Brussouw given the ineffectiveness of Andries Bekker in the lineouts as you just don’t have nough options then.
If they select Jundre Kruger and Spies(even kanko who is also a lineout option) they might get away with it.
I still think Bekker has an injury but to be honest, he never steals a lot of the opposition ball in any case.
27 Aug 2012, 12:13 pm
#66 ONERB what i am saying is he has the talent to make a decent test player if only he could cut out the silly mistakes he makes ie he just came onto the field and gave away a penalty in the lineout for pulling a man down which they scored.If he could only concentrate in playing good rugby he could be a decent No 4 but not in bakkies place,as i think he was a one -off and it will be a while before somebody can replace him.
#79 Bananaboy i have not given any thought to who i would bring in,but i will give it a go brussouw or stegmann whoever is fit i think has to start,i would give englebrecht a start on the wing inplace of habana who i think is finished as a test wing,and maybe even try habana in place of De Villiers who i think is finished as a test player,Mvovo has to go but who is fit to replace him?.
27 Aug 2012, 12:13 pm
@Puma-128: Vermeulen did nothing special, he wanted to fight and was slow as usual
27 Aug 2012, 12:13 pm
Why cant we emulate them,we do have the players with speed but they are not utilized
27 Aug 2012, 12:13 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-118: NO 13 tests and he has shown to be mentally strong, come now boet, 13 tests amd should have had more like the last 2 tests atleast off the bench , but no HM decided to stick to what was not working.
Because right now you arguement is that the forwards aint working, trust me the sharks front row is the strongest we have, pity about Bissy, but if they aint good enough? then all the more reason HM’s plan wont work and Bok rugby is sh!tstreet
27 Aug 2012, 12:17 pm
Vermeulen is nowhere near ready for test rugby, whether some want to believe it or not,
We have so many out with injuries and we need a fethcer, i reckon Minnie should be looked at, only problem is he too is damn slow
27 Aug 2012, 12:17 pm
@blueboy-134:
Yep,
The problem with vd merwe is he normally gives away Kickable penalties clos the the poles. That is guaranteed points.
Re: Rucks – I believe the refs will oversee some of the Argies transgressions in their first season. Case in point: jannie Du Plessis penalty on 10 minutes – If Steve Walsh actually blew for the Argie infringement there would have been no foul play by Jannie as the argies were clearly off their feet and playing the ball.
27 Aug 2012, 12:17 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-123: Oh bull- s h i t. If anything, the senior players stuffed up the team. The old guard should have departed in 2009, yet they stuck around for fame and the paycheck even though we had youngsters waiting in the wings.
27 Aug 2012, 12:18 pm
@onerb-133: If Meyer can get Kanko back for the rest of the RC then we most definitely must start with Brussow. Kruger has to come in for the out of form Bekker.
27 Aug 2012, 12:19 pm
1. Gurthro 2. Fourie/rallapelle 3. Cilliers 4. Elstadt/bakkies 5. Etsebeth 6. Daniel 7. Alberts 8. Vermeulen
16. Beast 17. Fourie 18. Jannie 19. Kruger 20. Coetzee
27 Aug 2012, 12:20 pm
@sharks_lover-138:
it is strange how everyone believe that vermeulen will be our big rescuer.
He has never played test rugby so the basis inclusion is flawed as it is an unknown.
27 Aug 2012, 12:21 pm
@sharks_lover-138: I never watched Province game this weekend or last where Vermuelen played. So then if he is not ready for cc can’t be ready for Test rugby right now. Meyer should negotiate to get Kanko released from his club for the rest of the RC. Kanko was our best 8 in our conference.
27 Aug 2012, 12:22 pm
@Puma-124: Yes….A Jantjes move to Sharks would not be in best interests of SA Rugby….I dont think Lambie would appreciate the news at all….
27 Aug 2012, 12:23 pm
@capebull-135: Okay then take it he is definitely not ready. We need Kanko then.
I was impressed with CJ Stander on the weekend. What a loss that will be for Bulls.
27 Aug 2012, 12:23 pm
@Puma-141:
I agree re kanko. the problem with Bekker is not form. He has never set the world alight in a test match. Him turning 30 this year also doesn’t bode well for his future as I believe he might never set the world alight in the test match arena.
27 Aug 2012, 12:23 pm
@sharks_lover-137:
look you prefer lambie at 10, i prefer jantjies. I just think that has been proven historically from an sa perspective that our 10′s debut in a new position at home.
beest has been super ordinary now for the past 3 tests. as has jannie.
and marcel after the first 2 super tests has been pretty ordinary as well.
sorry to be the one to have to point this out to you but your sharkies are not beyond approach either in their performance. And ,actually, while we are at it, the last game Lambie did play…he was super kak as well. What makes you think he will miraculously be the “answer” in a position he doesn’t play all the time in and was way off the pace last time out?
27 Aug 2012, 12:25 pm
@Puma-146:
CJ stander is a major loss for the bulls and SA rugby. What a game he had. i don’t think he’s played 1 bad game this year.
27 Aug 2012, 12:25 pm
@grant10-145: It would not be good at all. We need our top fhs playing every game of Super Rugby. Janjties going to the Stormers would be the best bet for him and SA rugby. Lambie is our 1st choice fh at Sharks. The only reason Freddy started was when Lambie was out with flu or injured. Or when Plum did need them both playing together on the day. Then it was fine for Lambie to go to fh, but really don’t want him to be playing all of his rugby there for the Sharks. Want to see him with Fransie, Jordaan while playing at fh not fb. Ludik is playing the rugby of his life right now too.
27 Aug 2012, 12:26 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-148:
i think the Sharkies might be feeling the after effects of a ridiculous long SR season. They should have rested an extra week.
27 Aug 2012, 12:27 pm
@Puma-144: we do need a fetcher though
I reckon if we can get kanko back the lineouts wont suffer if we move Alberts to 4 lock, and instruct him to hit every ruck with as much force as possible,
then bring in a fetcher like Minnie. i am now sure about flo as i have not seen him play in a very long time, Also not sure if in 2 weeks time brussow will be ready?
Injured Fetchers?? Brussow, BIssy, Chilli, Flouw?, available, Stegmann , who i watched against the Sharks and wasnt very good, Minnie has been quite good of late and is strong, Hell not suree who the hell we can bring in as a fethcer.
27 Aug 2012, 12:27 pm
@Puma-150: meant = Lambie to go to fb when we needed both Fred and him on the field. Really don’t want to see Lambie playing FB for Sharks want to see him starting every game at FH.
27 Aug 2012, 12:28 pm
@onerb-149: Yip not only a massive loss for Bulls a massive loss for SA. CJ Stander is really a class player.
27 Aug 2012, 12:28 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-115:
I was dismissive of Meyer’s retro gameplan from the outset along with his penchant for players with size and brawn but lacking in a functioning brain that can dial up the term initiative.I am beginning to think that Meyers “the player is an extension of myself on the field” is actually coming to fruition. Meyer knows only one style and this is projected by the players. From now on I suggest we call HM the “Missionary Man”
27 Aug 2012, 12:29 pm
Sharkboks are buggered – they injuries waiting to happen – the who things a mess – beast and alberts are not going to be anywhere near their best cos they already played a full season of champ rugby and do much rests on them in touring back and fourth from nz. It’s ceazy, Bismarck already broken down – there are like-4-like replacements waiting in the cape – rested and ready to go.
Elstadt, fourie, bakkies and gurthro – throw I’m brussow and vermeulen as soon as fit and that that – give cilliers a start at 3 – I reckon there’ll be an injection of energy and effort second to none – his workrate is collosal.
27 Aug 2012, 12:31 pm
“It’s easy to say throw people out and pick new ones, but that’s not coaching, that’s picking,” he said. “I’ve been in this position a few times as a coach and the easiest thing is just to cut players, but that won’t move you forward.
“We’ve already lost a lot of leadership and then you’d be throwing out what little experience you’ve got.”
Meyer agreed that taking on Australia in Perth and New Zealand in Dunedin in their next two Rugby Championship fixtures would require a much-improved performance from the Springboks.
“The next two games will be even tougher and we have to improve. I know we can do it, but the only way the side will improve is by coaching them, improving their technique and mental strength,” Meyer said.
27 Aug 2012, 12:32 pm
@village _idiot-136: emulating them will mean we have to think differently from what we are doing right now…the question is, what do the all blacks plan to do with all this quick ball, crashball it to set up another phase or break the line to put the defence at sixes and sevens?
the all blacks made 31 OFFLOADS on saturday vs Aussies 3
the aussies were determined to make the breakdown a mess and the all blacks adapted…
27 Aug 2012, 12:32 pm
@sharks_lover-152: Minnie out for season as well
27 Aug 2012, 12:32 pm
@Bok fan-126: brussouw only got picked because of injury I thought.. Pienaar was never happy at 10 was he? I thought he onyl wanted to play at 9.. dont buy the 10 shouldnt kick for poles, Carter does it, Cruden etc
I do think the fact your backline is so far behind the advantage line it causes real problems and “telegraphs” the play, so much so that defences have more time to align and limit options to the ball carrier.. the ABs use decoy runners in the backline to create doubt in the opposition and thus create space, or half gaps to exploit which then bring the defensive line under real pressure… but we hardly see this from a SA perspective? why I dont know?
27 Aug 2012, 12:32 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-115: Honestly. Good question. Where is Rassie. One doesn’t even see him anymore. What does he do for the Boks?
27 Aug 2012, 12:32 pm
@sharks_lover-152: Good idea to have Alberts at 4 lock then. That is if we can get Kanko back then our lineouts will not suffer at all if we can get Brussow. But if he is injured we in a bit of trouble I think. Have not seen Flouw play for a long time. Hardly watch nh rugby. Minnie has been good for Lions just not as good as Brussow.
Bissie picking up that injury has now been our biggest loss. Strauss too never had a good game on Saturday but he is our next best in sa that is.
What is this about Jantjies coming to Sharks? I really, really hope not. As we will lose Lambie eventually by messing him about. Lambie HAS to be our starting fh. Look they are both top class fhs but Lambie I feel is better and his tackling is superb.
27 Aug 2012, 12:33 pm
@grant10-159: Oh ffs, what next
ok so we dont really have a fit fetcher
27 Aug 2012, 12:34 pm
@grant10-159: Damn that squashes that. So who do we have?
27 Aug 2012, 12:35 pm
@sharks_lover-163: snap!
27 Aug 2012, 12:35 pm
So HM chooses a terrible squad….then says he cant make changes and will have to coach the exising bunch up to standard…..
Stubbornness coming to the fore….
careful HM….pride comes before a fall Sir…….
27 Aug 2012, 12:35 pm
The question is: what will Meyer shout into his walkie talkie when he is over in New Zealand?
Who will forget PdV clenched fists freak-out there in NZ ? To me it is abundantly clear that PdV had a better idea of how rugby should be played.
27 Aug 2012, 12:36 pm
@sharks_lover-163: every player on the field is a de facto fetcher…
27 Aug 2012, 12:36 pm
160 Popps, do you mean ‘obstruction’, rather than ‘decoy’?
27 Aug 2012, 12:36 pm
@Puma-162: Boet i still firmly believe LAmbie is a better 10 than JAntjes, you must remember people in here seem blind and still comaper the 2, one has been playing 15 and injured for the most this season, other one has improved no doubt.
But lets wait and see when Lambie gets his chance now at 10 all the time, will also enhance his game, we saw last season when he played 10 all the time, Confidence is another contributor.
If jantjes does come to the Sharks its for Plum to manage then and rotate, hard long season as we saw this year, you cant only have 1 good 210
Look at every position and look at our depth and you will see 10 amd prop are the positions we lack in
27 Aug 2012, 12:37 pm
@onerb-151:
i agree with that as well but it does not change anything really does it. Noboby gives Morne any sympathy when he played every availible rugby game in 3.5 years? Or Spies…or Werner Kruger 76 superrugby games onthetrot without injury.
27 Aug 2012, 12:37 pm
@sharks_lover-163: Steggmann
27 Aug 2012, 12:38 pm
here is a solution, send all the Sharks back to Durbs and let them rest
27 Aug 2012, 12:40 pm
@grant10-172: Hell boet he was terrible in the G&G and also this season again he has been poor, Hell to be honest and this will give CAb and Skoppie a hardon, Fourie has been far better that steggmann
27 Aug 2012, 12:40 pm
@wnbb-157:
very sensible and true.
thank heavens we have heyneke in charge in this rebuilding stage
27 Aug 2012, 12:40 pm
@grant10-172: There was a time he was good, Brussow was just so much better
27 Aug 2012, 12:41 pm
@cab-156: Beast and Alberts never played for long periods in Super Rugby. Both were injured from the start. But with us making the final and travelling the world these SharkBoks will be tired. Hope Meyer is resting them this week.
27 Aug 2012, 12:41 pm
@poppa69-160:
frans steyn could help alot if he ran very straight off of morne’s shoulder.
27 Aug 2012, 12:41 pm
If they persist with the same squad don’t come tell us any more **** about tge players not executing – cos that’s rubbish – the players were fully committed on sat – they can walk with their heads held high – they had done their and did not shame anyone – the problem is they are mediocre players that are not going to dominate a fired up argue pack in Mendoza however much they try – the fault lies completely and squarely with meyer – he either rectifies it or his reign is going to be short-lived.
27 Aug 2012, 12:42 pm
@cab-169: not at all, thats only for those who need it to assuage themselves when their team fails… how often do the ABs pass the ball behind a runner to spread the ball wide to men in space?
how is that space created? by drawing in the defender covering the decoy runner.. he has to make a decision to commit to the space the decoy runner is attacking, therefore creating space outside of him… simple basics of rugby mate, do try to keep up
27 Aug 2012, 12:42 pm
“The Boks certainly moved on from the dummy tag in 2007 thanks to the approach and thinking of some very special players,…”
Markie still not willing to give any credit to PdV.
27 Aug 2012, 12:42 pm
@sharks_lover-174: Should be F Louw….
biut HM seems to have no vision at all….
27 Aug 2012, 12:43 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-178: this is why Conrad Smith is so vital to the ABs, he straightens the attack often..
27 Aug 2012, 12:44 pm
@grant10-166: What would your squad look like , don’t pick injured players
27 Aug 2012, 12:44 pm
@sharks_lover-170:
Lambie did not play 10 all of last season either. In fact the sharks were better then as well with freddy at 10.
Lambie had a good cc at 10 2 seasons back.
27 Aug 2012, 12:45 pm
@sharks_lover-170: I know we need to equally good fhs. But we need a first choice that has to start most games. And if Jantjies does come I really hope it is Lambie that is our first choice and we don’t go sticking Pat at FB again.
When Pat played fh this year he as good there until he got injured. Anyhow for now think it could be a rumour just have to wait and see. Just don’t want us to mess Pat around, because he is just too smart for that and will leave.
27 Aug 2012, 12:45 pm
If HM persists with MS and ignores Jantjes and Lambie he deserves all the pain he is bound to get…
27 Aug 2012, 12:45 pm
3 weekes ago Spies broke his finger all muppits said ” softy”
Now Kolisi broke his finger all muppits say ” sorry to see a tough man go”
27 Aug 2012, 12:47 pm
i agree that Vermeulen may not be 100% match fit and ideally needs a couple more games. The reason why I would pick him is because for a long time was our best number 8 and never got picked. This season I am sure he would have been picked if it wasnt for his injury.
So you telling me that when this guy puts on the Boks jersey for the first time he won’t be ready??? I promise you he will be more ready than any one of the 15 that put the bok jersey on against the Puma’s
27 Aug 2012, 12:47 pm
We will be stuck with the likes of Potgieter,Steyn etc etc …as per Heyneken.He is at his rubicon but is not prepared to cross it.Meyer will never budge from his conservative mindset.Iacta alea est.
27 Aug 2012, 12:47 pm
@logie_Jumpbuck-49:
Meyer’s approach in rugby is no different than most if not all our coaches. He plays not to lose. He does not play to win.
27 Aug 2012, 12:49 pm
@poppa69-183:
personally i see that “morne sits deep and can’t distribute” as one of the keo-legend-facts.
When he does drop deep it is to kick and look for field position.
morne was very flat for the most part this past weekend but our centers are all crawling sideways. Laughably, what we really need is a little crash ball from frans steyn to straighten everything up off mornes shoulder.Hell, heaven forbid even a pop pass off the crashball ala sonny bill.
the real component that morne lacks is pace.
27 Aug 2012, 12:50 pm
Popps
one of the reasons u always a success is vis u lot still got dinosaurs who think ‘space’ is the thing surrounding the earth – mealamu and franks or brad don’t care or know about – fundamentally they clean up (literally at the breakdowns and collision points) and that is tge fundamental reason for AB fast-ball to attack with – read Transformations quotes from Wayne Smith above. Current bok pack is so ineffectual they can’t even begin to be classed as rhinos – u okes got it all back-to-front, if they pick a real rhino Bok pack u will know all about it – there’d be argies flying outa rucks like a dwarf tossing contest and hanging dazed and confused from tge rafters.
27 Aug 2012, 12:51 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-185: Lambie was our 1st choice fh. He started all games there until he got injured. Then when he came back played there again. Then got flu when we played Cheetahs and Plum played Fred there. The following week we were playing Stormers at the Tank and it was a win at all costs game. So Plum needed both his play makers to start. So Pat went to FB to allow Freddie to start at fh. Then he got injured playing fb for Boks in the England test.
27 Aug 2012, 12:52 pm
@capebull-184: Okay….since you asked….this excludes all injured and or not yet fully fit…..so no Vermeulen….Coenie Oosthuisen …Brussow taken into account…
15 Lambie
14 Habana
13 J De Jongh
12 F Steyn
11 Mvovo
10 Jantjes
9 Pienaar
8 Kankowski
7 Alberts
6 Steggmann
5 J Kruger
4 Etsebeth
3 Jannie
2 Strauss
1 beast
16 M Coetsee
17 F VD Merwe
18 T Liebenberg
19 cilliers
20 F Hougaard
21 JDV
22 Kirchner
also excludes Guthro and F Louw, who I would have had in squad from the get go with Brussow, Vermeulen and J Goosen…
27 Aug 2012, 12:53 pm
Now Frans Steyn is criticised for not making Morne Steyn look good.Some of these Bulls supporters are just as delusional as their coach.
27 Aug 2012, 12:53 pm
why is it assumed that meyer will not change players?
what he does say is that he needs to give them a chance to perform.
Evidence of his teams with the bulls is evidence of this….they all evolved personel wise but at the same time giving everyone the opportunity the chance to prove themselves before getting pushed out.
everyone laments the strauli selection polocy but ask for exactly that on a weekly basis.
27 Aug 2012, 12:55 pm
@XhosaKid-117:
But that’s what I said – type of results people want should be expected then.
27 Aug 2012, 12:56 pm
@cab-169:
no, he’ll convince himself they are in fact legit and in no way obstructing.
he’s a lifer our pops
27 Aug 2012, 12:57 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-185: Lambie did play 10 for Sharks last year. Got injured again breaking his finger. Then came back to play fh. Fred only joined us later in the season when he played fh and Lambie fb. Plum wanted them again both on the field, so with Lambie able to play fb he was shifted there. That was only later in the season.
So not sure where you get it that Lambie never played fh for us last year.
27 Aug 2012, 12:59 pm
@Sheriff-167:
*sigh*
you keep telling yourself that, buddy….
27 Aug 2012, 12:59 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-197:
Corporal.
We are so different in approach that I dont realy like debating issues with you.
But if I may point out no one is saying that radical squad changes are good.
Regretfully it seems that HM chose such a poorly balanced squad the first time around that now that the chickens are coming home to roost it is a neccessity to make some big changes….
HM fault…no one else.
27 Aug 2012, 13:00 pm
@grant10-195: Far better team than we had for the two Arg games.
27 Aug 2012, 13:00 pm
@cab-193: you keep mentioning this real rhino bok pack, but I am yet to see one mate… even with the likes of Bakkies and J Smith your pack rarely if ever dominated the ABs…
@Brigadier Van Zyl-192: agree on your centres, but Carter doesnt drop back to kick unless in his own 22, he will often kick at the advantage line, thus creating uncertainty… Morne is too predictable, cant recall the last time he attacked the line with ball in hand?
27 Aug 2012, 13:00 pm
Keo, I have a new poll for you guys.
Do you rate Flip van der Merwe?
Yes and No.
I’m voting no. He is so k@k.
27 Aug 2012, 13:01 pm
@grant10-195: Just not really sure about Stegmann. Then we have no other fetcher so will go with that.
27 Aug 2012, 13:01 pm
Meyer=Straeuli.Both,arrogantly,arrogantly believed that they could fly close to the sun and both came crashing down.Note how I use the past tense re Heyneken?Meyer won’t see out his four-year-term.
27 Aug 2012, 13:02 pm
@wnbb-196:
wow….insecure or what.
frans steyn is an awesome player but a few differing running lines would make a huge change to our entire backline.
27 Aug 2012, 13:02 pm
@capebull-188:
People see kolisi make huge tackles in every match he plays, driving players, much bigger than him back in the tackle.
They have never seen Spies do that.
That’s the difference.
@wnbb-196:
*** for tat, I guess.
Some people blame Hougie/Steyn for not making Fransie look good.
27 Aug 2012, 13:03 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-199: hahaha this from the guy who only ever sees ghosts with one eye on the game… I know the boks dont believe in having guys in motion, giving the ball carrier options and putting the defense in two minds.. just because we have decoy runners that create that doubt is not cheating, it is smart effective rugby..
but you stay under your delusion umbrella, if it helps ease your pain..
27 Aug 2012, 13:04 pm
@Puma-206: I would far rather have Brussow….
Or F Louw…..
But it seems HM only has room for RP as a foreign player….
27 Aug 2012, 13:05 pm
hehe nama1 still sharing his crush on F Steyn. Let it go nama1, you are focusing too much on one player with your incessant tirade that people are now starting to realise it’s something personal rather than objective …
27 Aug 2012, 13:05 pm
@grant10-195: Okay had another look. Not so sure about Flip on the bench. I know many will come at me for this but I would rather have Breseler there. He has been outstanding for Sharks. Flip seems to be a penalty machine.
27 Aug 2012, 13:07 pm
@Puma-213: Now you gone and done it
27 Aug 2012, 13:07 pm
@grant10-211: How good has Flouw been? I hardly watch nh rugby. But I rate him over Stegmann from when he was playing here.
27 Aug 2012, 13:07 pm
Poppa – nope we certainly did dominate tge AB packs from time to time when the correct personnel were selected and you know it – what do you think it was our scintillating strike runners or backline play that gave us tge adv – there we’re games against tge ABs when u guys could simply get in ball – we could beat you in every area upfront even fetching when brussow was there – ah those were the days – u can count your lucky stars Bismarck was not selected for RWC 2011 otherwise that trophy be staying in tge land of the eye-gouger.
27 Aug 2012, 13:07 pm
I fall on the grant10 side of the line rather than the Brig Van Zyl side and I reckon the divide is what is holding back Bok rugby.
We want a plan B and we don’t want kick and hope rugby. We want intelligence and unpredictability and off loads and skill so go with all our other more conservative strengths.
27 Aug 2012, 13:07 pm
@sharks_lover-214:
27 Aug 2012, 13:08 pm
we don’t want laager mentality rugby
27 Aug 2012, 13:09 pm
@poppa69-210:
you’re obstructing and its illegal, poppa
but you knew that…
27 Aug 2012, 13:10 pm
we don’t want Bully breker rugby. It might earn us 60% win ratio against Eng and Arg but it will offer us something like 20% to 30% against the smartypants kiwis and ozzies.
27 Aug 2012, 13:11 pm
the kiwis and ozzies are licking their lips hoping we kick the ball to them all day long.
27 Aug 2012, 13:11 pm
I disagree we need radical changes 5 of them for starters
27 Aug 2012, 13:12 pm
@cab-216: is that why in the last 20 years youve beaten us 13 times, while we have beaten you 28 times? because your pack dominates us?
doesnt compute mate, but again, you keep believing that..
27 Aug 2012, 13:12 pm
andries bekker (along with the rest of the team) had a shocker, lineouts awful and a lot of slipped tackles.
27 Aug 2012, 13:12 pm
@poppa69-204:
but that is exactly what i said about morne…..he does take the ball flat and pass but he will not take a gap because he is not quick enough in my opinion.
if people want to find fault, that would be it. But with the bulls that is compensated with by having a 12 that can take crashball over the advantage line. And then there is a new young kid playing 12 with the bulls who looks the real deal at 12. A conrad smith sort at 12? A step and runs angles with a great pass. But he is playing outside a flyhalf with a big build and plenty of pace who challenges the line often himself. So with their dynamic they are the right foil for each other.
But Morne…if you are going to play him you need a center prepared to take some crashball directly off his shoulder that asks the same sort of questions defensively as a flyhalf looking for the gap would. Basically the defensive line checks itself with the individuals having to spend that extra few fractions of a second looking up at the attackers with the defender not sure of where the defender on his side is. Has he drifted,is there a big gap,etc..
27 Aug 2012, 13:13 pm
@Humphrey-217: I am with you and grant10 too. Want us to play with intelligence and with unpredictability. Off-loads with the skill with our normal strengths. Add the two we could just be unbeatable. Let us kick intelligently, when it is necessary and not just all of the time.
27 Aug 2012, 13:13 pm
All blaming Hougaardt and Morne again… Did anyone watch the Game? Our forwards got Klapped deurmekaar!!!
27 Aug 2012, 13:14 pm
Flip is a penalty machine.He cost us the game against the Kiwis in SA once,and he tried his damn best to cost us the game against the Argentines on Saturday.Penalty machine extraordinaire our Flip.
27 Aug 2012, 13:15 pm
@Puma-213: I am not a Flip fan either….at all….would prefer a Bakkies there myself!
27 Aug 2012, 13:15 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-220: and youre boring… what is a decoy runner supposed to do, disappear into thin air? if the defender commits to the decoy runner whose fault is that?
please dont respond, I know the words cheating, filthy and scum will be included…
have you enough tissues?
27 Aug 2012, 13:15 pm
The bottom line is that the Springboks should have dominated world rugby, or at the very least been on parity with the All Blacks, over the past 5-7 years. The abundance of rare talent and skill we had on offer, including the likes of Matfield, du Preez, Smith, Burger in his prime, Habana, the leadership of Smith to name a few, meant that we could have boasted 7 or 8 players in a World 15 at any given time. The greatest tragedy for me is that the opportunity for these players to shine collectively and stamp their authority on the world was squandered by poor coaching appointments, political interference, self interest and big egos. Its very sad indeed because players like the aforementioned only come about every 10 years, and almost never with such abundance. We blew it when we had the chance essentially. Now that sense has prevailed and SARU have appointed a respected coach with proven credential and given him the necessary freedom to get on with his job, the player base of old is just not there. Sure there is young talent coming through but ultimately we have lost our backbone, what Meyer requires to execute his ill-fated plan effectively. Players like Daniel (Andrew Aitkin recreation) Potgieter, Kirchner, although reasonably dominant at Super Rugby level, just simply do not cut the mustard at International level.
27 Aug 2012, 13:15 pm
@Puma-213:
I thought he bressler should have been there in the first place. flip has been superkak but that would have ment even less experience in the squad.
27 Aug 2012, 13:15 pm
Puma
ou boet so far uve picked lambie jodeaan whitehead and now bresler, despite a sharboks pack getting pummeled by the argies – u wanna add more? Reckon the only one u missing now is Macleod ..
27 Aug 2012, 13:16 pm
@Puma-215: Bath captain….last saw him get M O M for Barbarians ….should have been in Bok squad like Ruan POienaar has been from day 1…class…
27 Aug 2012, 13:17 pm
Flip VD Merwe, Jacques Potgieter, Zane Kirchner are not Bok quality, just as sure as Werner Kruger was nt, just as sure as Spies was nt, Just as sure as Wynand Olivier was nt.. If HM does nt see this , then sure as hell he is nt BOk quality too… There are some player from other provinces too that should go, but I thort I d go with a BB theme… Van Graan, McFarland seem to be like yes men, that s dangerous if you have a coach that knows jack****
27 Aug 2012, 13:19 pm
…we could always call up luke watson as opensider, that would definately buy meyer some more time among the cape crusader fans and sharkies still in love with him..
27 Aug 2012, 13:19 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-220: so, the try Israel dagg scored in the first test against the Wallabies it is your belief that he only scored that try because Nonu and SBWs decoy runs obstructed the defense?
they didnt create space by drawing in the defenders with their runs, they must have deliberately blocked them?
27 Aug 2012, 13:20 pm
224 popps how many other sides beaten u that many times – look at tge welsh wizards – how many times they beaten tge ABs – zero
boks whitewashed ABs in 2009 and can still win if right selections are made despite injuries.
27 Aug 2012, 13:21 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-220: when i said to you i would ALSO run decoys and be smart against kiwis you said “the more i get to know you transie the more i see you are not someone i would not get into business with”
it seems you are resigned to b.itching incessantly
27 Aug 2012, 13:22 pm
@line break-236: are they quotas?
27 Aug 2012, 13:23 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-233: That is the only thing probably why Breseler never got selected because of experience. Then when do these players get experience? They need sometimes to be selected and come off the bench. Look at Eben he is young and selected and rightfully so, as he was brilliant in Super Rugby. I just can not think of any other player for now but Breseler. Flip gives away too many penalties. But I think Meyer will select Kruger and put Bekker on the bench. Not sure if that is the right thing to do though to have Bekker there. He looked totally out of sorts on Saturday.
27 Aug 2012, 13:24 pm
@cab-239: that result in 2009 was also reversed in 2010 with practically the same Bok pack…
again those 3 wins contributed to 1/4 of your wins in 20 years, against an AB pack carrying Isaac Ross, Tialata and an over the hill Solialo…
apart from that one season, you guys averaged one win every two years against us… and if the old ethos that it all starts in the tight five, then your argument doesnt really hold water..
but thats just my opinion..
27 Aug 2012, 13:25 pm
@cab-234: Ja Cabbie, because my Sharkies have now to adapt to a different game plan, crash ball sommer the hele dag….hehe.
27 Aug 2012, 13:26 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-226: its my belief Morne needs an extended break away from rugby, he is stale and uninspired…
27 Aug 2012, 13:26 pm
@grant10-235: How many overseas players is Meyer allowed to select?
27 Aug 2012, 13:27 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-130: Hmmm, thought so in the past, maybe
27 Aug 2012, 13:27 pm
The korporaaltjie can write novels as posts in defence of his coach,but the fact of the matter is that he is stuck in his conservative mindset and unless he change that he will go down as the most maligned coach in Springbok rugby history.
27 Aug 2012, 13:27 pm
So, all in all if you take everybody’s point of view into consideration, HM must drop the following players.
1. Kirchner
2. Mvovo
3. JdV (won’t happen because he is the captain)
4. M. Steyn
5. Potgieter
6. Bekker
7. Strauss
Hougie must be played at wing.
Coetzee must move to 8 and a fetcher to be selected in his place at 6.
Alberts must move to 7.
Chilliboy at hooker to do fetching role as well.
So where does that leave us.
15.
14. Hougaard
13. de Villiers
12. Fransie
11. Habana
10.
9. Pienaar
8. Coetzee
7. Alberts
6.
5. Kruger
4. Etzebeth
3. Jannie
2. Chilliboy
1. Beast
27 Aug 2012, 13:29 pm
Jannie, Strauss, Beast, Bekker, Coetzee….. The Aussie pack must be licking their lips…. Not one of them will even start for the them…. Not to mention putting them up against the AB pack!
27 Aug 2012, 13:29 pm
@Puma-242:
but you can understand the coaches selection issue.
select a bok pack with 8-9 debutants including the bench? so he compromises, picks a more experienced player off form. to his mind the best of a kak situation.
27 Aug 2012, 13:29 pm
Popps
nope differnt side in 2010 – boks pick right to the man and they can beat ABs – this touring side is going to get pumped badly by the ABs
Pumes
this tge sane offload gameplan which lost you 30% of super rugby fixtures?
27 Aug 2012, 13:30 pm
@Te Rangatira-155:
You are correct in your observation…..Spot on! (So I guess you got the reference I made last week about the Boks being stuck in the missionary position, while the rest of the world has worked through the Kama Sutra twice….)
Don’t mess with the Missionary Man… ***rolling eyes smiley*** (an old Annie Lennox number if I’m not mistaken…)
27 Aug 2012, 13:31 pm
Puma can’t help himself with his Sharks picks.Stop torturing yourself Puma and just select the whole Sharks team.
27 Aug 2012, 13:32 pm
I see problems mainly from 6 – 10. Bok loosies play a tighter game than some other teams and don’t so often perform the link plays like the AB’s and Wallabies often do. Doesn’t beef up the midfield if any of 10 – 14 are unavailable, so they seldom get an overlap, and often not even one on one as the opposition slide. With the current 10 and 13, you only really have F Steyn at 12 who actually seems dangerous, but with the service he currently gets from 8,9,10, he doesn’t get any room. I think the Boks need Brussouw back at 6 (opensider) to be that linker/fetcher style guy, and a smarter 8 man who can be a link man as well. Put one of the young running 10′s in in place of M Steyn and preferably someone with a bit more ‘cunning’ at 13. JDV is more of a ‘crash centre’ than a real distributor, so the Bok back 3 don’t often get into the attack in good positions. To me JDV is better at 12, but I can’t see that he is really the best SA have.
Trouble with all this is that it will disturb a very good defensive unit, and probably mean some painful losses until the new team and playing style start to produce results.
27 Aug 2012, 13:32 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-237: Luke playing at 8
27 Aug 2012, 13:33 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-253:
come now, from missionary to doggy style or rodeo…is a quick turnaround.
27 Aug 2012, 13:34 pm
@poppa69-231:
say it correctly then, doos
say it for what it is.
say our players over run the supposed running lines they are following as options for passes from the ball carrier or as support because in fact that is what they are coached to do
which is to intentionally over run the line and cross over into wholly offside positions and obstruct and block the opposition running line for defence
why case it in a load of kiwi delusional blowjobspeak to an audience which knows it are talking complet kak.
if you want respect poosy then speak like a man and not like a cheap shot doos.
ok
27 Aug 2012, 13:34 pm
seems like a lot of people in sa don’t have proper jobs or are unemployed?
27 Aug 2012, 13:34 pm
Puma mate u do realise we cannot pick michalak? Unfortunately he’s French
right here is the problem with Bok rugby – fiercely provincial bias.
Who was top of the s15 after the while comp? Bekker never played in most of it – select right. HM wants to play stampkar but he not selecting tge stampkars – what do you expect?
Shoulf be stampkar upfront, attacking outwide. We got neither – hierkom groot kak. I watch with one eye open v ABs – that could hurt.
27 Aug 2012, 13:35 pm
@nama1-249:
Without going into too much detail, Keegan Daniel for me is a player that should be there.
He brings another dimension and the kind of player that can play off a 10 and 12.
He is certainly as big as say McCaw and look how influential he is in a game; it just shows again that our understanding of the game is not what it should be
May the veil be removed
We should invest more and more in technical understanding and analysis of the game and build ideas from our findings; we can do that or simply fall further and further behind with OURRRR DIRRRECT RRRUGBY
27 Aug 2012, 13:35 pm
@Puma-246: seems just the 1 ….I am not sure!
I would have Guthro, F Louw and Kanko firmly in the mix if possible….
Pity about J Fourie as well
27 Aug 2012, 13:36 pm
Is there a performance clause in Meyer’s contract?
27 Aug 2012, 13:37 pm
@cab-252:
who would you have thats available right now in your pack?
NZ had a different pack in 2010 also, so one can argue all day about picking the best players but that is not always possible due to injury and such…
27 Aug 2012, 13:37 pm
Luke, Captain bearded Strauss and Stegman would be more effective as a loose trio than the bunch of jokers we have at the moment!
27 Aug 2012, 13:38 pm
@charo-259:
27 Aug 2012, 13:38 pm
@wnbb-254:
27 Aug 2012, 13:40 pm
@Transformation-240:
no transie, the solution to beating these rats is not to lower ourselves to their style of play but to simply moer these lowlife tendencies out of them.
as of now this is the only solution i see to the problem. but i absolutely advocate the need to develop a greater variation of tactics and playing skills to overcome it in the future.
we dont have to be like them to beat them.
27 Aug 2012, 13:40 pm
@grant10-262: Is a pity that J. Fourie turned Meyer down.
27 Aug 2012, 13:41 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-258: so no answer on the Dagg try? instead deflecting the point? ok then
cheap shots about blowjobspeak because my example completely disproves your theory?
I await you undoubted insight into the Dagg try and hope you can provide stills of where Nonu/SBWs deliberately block their opposites..
27 Aug 2012, 13:41 pm
Watson/Daniel, josh Strauss and Alberts would indeed be better loosetrio – but our tight 5 is also way too mediocre too beat good packs away or beat the Abs or oz.
27 Aug 2012, 13:42 pm
You need the forwards like Mallett had if the Boks to move away from that kick and chase
Loose forwards with ball skills and movement, Rueben Kruger, Rassie, Andre Venter, Teichman or Skinstad come to mind and complemented by a mobile front row like Dalton, Garvey, Kempson, Os or Balie Swart, having Mark Andrews as a ball carrier would have been nice too.
The current Bok forward lack that kind of attacking spirit and skills, and that’s not HM fault
The lack of ball carrying props hurts the prospects too, Deon Fourie might be the man but now he is now lost.
27 Aug 2012, 13:43 pm
@Sheriff-261:
I’m a Keegan fan myself.
Said a few weeks ago, my preffered loose trio if everybody was available, would be:
6. Brussow
7. Schalk
8. Keegan
Skill, brawn and brains.
27 Aug 2012, 13:44 pm
Luke Watson would be a great pick at eight.He is still the most intelligent rugby forward currently playing the game in SA.If Meyer can shed his conservatism approach to Bok rugby he will clearly see that players like Watson and Brusow can take Bok rugby to new heights.
27 Aug 2012, 13:44 pm
@poppa69-270: Say, Giulietta, is it true that the Black Caps have requested two seasons in the ICC’s second tier of countries so that they can regain their confidence by being competitive against the likes of Italy, Tanzania and Thailand after the bum-hemorrhaging innings-and-the-some buggering they had to take from India?
27 Aug 2012, 13:45 pm
@wnbb-274: Even given the current loose forward injury list, Luke must be sitting around 10th or 12th in the pecking order.
27 Aug 2012, 13:46 pm
@Puma-269: Ask yourself why. I questioned his outright/absolutely non-negotiable NO at the time.
The way I saw it, he didn’t stand to lose anything financially at all….
27 Aug 2012, 13:46 pm
@katman-275: kiwi cricket is rubbish…
old news katman, but again, such a wonderful display of your most amazing wit… why do you try so hard?
is it because we got double the number of gold medals in the olympics and your still hurting? or is it becuase you’ll be able to sit at home and watch the Super rugby next year like your lions team?
27 Aug 2012, 13:47 pm
Since when did plumtree become so heralded – I was tge only one who liked him cos he drilled the forwards properly nz style – now all of a sudden he’s being heralded as tge offload king – get serious he’s been there 5 seasons now from 2007 where he has picked solid forward packs nothing fancy-arse – there was a whole sharks-initiated petition to remove him aafter 6 games this season for playing outdated stampkar rugby .. Now all if a sudden he’s the offload king.
Sharks success due to beast, Bismarck and alberts – starts and ends there – if one if them are down sharks go from a v good side to a v ordinary side. Even those 3 fit are not enough for tge Boks at test level with even mire formidable packs – so who do we pick bekker, teddie and Tarzan – what does anyone actually expect ?
27 Aug 2012, 13:47 pm
@poppa69-270:
fool, it is the exceptions which prove the general rule.
all you have is one ****** example of non-blocking, lets have you out with all the counter examples. (besides, it looked like they had obstructed the ozzie defenders from chasing back successfuly, after the fact).
27 Aug 2012, 13:48 pm
@cab-271: Ja, I was seriously disappointed with Jannie and Beast’s workload on Saturday. At more than one ruck, either of them would try half-heartedly to shift an Argie off the ball, and then watch on as the bloke steals it. I want my props to be scary, not well educated or well-liked.
27 Aug 2012, 13:48 pm
bring back bakkies and gurthro.
27 Aug 2012, 13:49 pm
@poppa69-278: Answer the question, cockbreath. Why does your Amazingly Sporty Nation produce such a wet patch of a cricket team? What are they, 8th or 9th in the rankings?
27 Aug 2012, 13:50 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-280: but you still cant comment on that one example… its not the only example, I can find plenty more if you wish..
but yeah, I remember now that the Bok never break any of the laws of the game..
I dont know how you guys got your bad rep honestly..such angels who never push the boundaries
27 Aug 2012, 13:51 pm
That is pity Puma.I would have JdJ at 12,J.Fourie at 13.Jantjies/Lambie at 10,Fransie at 15 and the wings Habana and JPP.Sarel Petoors or Ruan at 9.
27 Aug 2012, 13:53 pm
@katman-283: why does your nation produce a rugby team that cant beat Argentina?
as I told you, we are rubbish at cricket, and the fact you have to use this to try and big up yourself is testament to the small man you really are..
no denying it, we suck at cricket…
27 Aug 2012, 13:53 pm
Meyer has the ability to drill the same forward packs but he needs to take off his bloushark specs and select right. Then get a backline coach like slaptjips or Diego marachuchu or quirky campo brainsurgeon campese into perform acrobatic creativity with our backline, to keep the fans who were backs happy, it won’t make much if a difference to the result.
27 Aug 2012, 13:53 pm
@poppa69-284:
honeslty poppa…?..
are you being facetious..?..
but you know the answer….
27 Aug 2012, 13:54 pm
@wnbb-285: Fransie is a good fb, but is wasted there. Better at inside centre. Like JdJ too, but now with Jean as captain he will start everytime at 13. Sarel is a very good player, just not sure about his kicking game, as this will be what Meyer will want. Also his defence is not always that great, otherwise he is a very good scrummie.
27 Aug 2012, 13:54 pm
@poppa69-286:
what do you think it is they’re not doing right in cricket?
27 Aug 2012, 13:54 pm
Really poor article from keo, so much wrong in it. It may not seem so from a south african perspective but the mendoza game was THE game of the tournament for neutrals.
27 Aug 2012, 13:57 pm
@poppa69-286: Yes, amongst other things. You also suck at internet decorum, general hygiene and the sense of knowing where you’re welcome and where not.
27 Aug 2012, 13:58 pm
281 – yeah jannie is ordinary at best if times and beast can’t carry it all – beast is a great prop but he’s been asked by plumtree to put in some massive performances – there 5 players in the tight 5 and they gotta all contribute. I think gurthro could be a v good selection-he’s always been brilliant and they do need to start rotating if have players of this caliber to ensure operating at 100%.
27 Aug 2012, 13:59 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-290: perhaps the weather is not conducive to the game because we invariably produce slow low wickets, thus not developing correct technique in our batsmen… who knows?
27 Aug 2012, 14:00 pm
@katman-292: hahaha theres that remarkable wit again…
do you kids know their father is such a wimp?
27 Aug 2012, 14:01 pm
I wonder if Meyer will look at what the panel on Super Sport said after the game on Saturday? Especially what Mallett had to say. He was absolutely scathing about the game-plan and some players. Have never heard a panel so outspoken about a Bok game ever.
Do hope that Meyer gets to see that. Mallett was brutally honest. I like to hear that from our presenters in the studio. I liked the honesty and not shying away from saying something. Good to have Mallett in the studio.
27 Aug 2012, 14:02 pm
Sorry meant for katman
BH is right, poor article, keo is turning on meyer who is turning on the v players he selected cos they all got it so wrong.
27 Aug 2012, 14:02 pm
@katman-283:
let me guess….
no pacific islanders to boost their ranks?
27 Aug 2012, 14:03 pm
@poppa69-295: Let’s not go there, Giulietta. Or at least, wait till you find someone blind or drunk enough to breed with you before you start digging out the kids jibes.
27 Aug 2012, 14:03 pm
@charo-298:
hiyas charouping bru
27 Aug 2012, 14:03 pm
http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/RugbyChampionship/Meyer-to-keep-Bok-flops-20120827-2
**not sure whether to roll eyes or weep**
27 Aug 2012, 14:03 pm
@charo-298: so what is your problem with pacific islanders? not the right hue for you?
27 Aug 2012, 14:04 pm
@cab-287: He should get Carlos Spencer in as a backline coach. Just look how good your Lions played with him there last year. Can’t judge him this year as your team was depleted of injuries.
27 Aug 2012, 14:05 pm
@katman-299: again, hilarious… how do you do it? I see youve explained how you got kids, but not all of us need to ply our woman..
did you also use rohypnol or that sparkling wit before hitting her over the head with your club?
27 Aug 2012, 14:06 pm
@charo-298: They’d do well to start poaching further afield for the Black Caps. Papua New Guiniea, Nepal and Afghanistan are all plying their trade successfully in the ICC Associates league.
27 Aug 2012, 14:08 pm
@poppa69-294:
we have useless bowlers…..hopeless batsmen……and a boy for a coach.
27 Aug 2012, 14:08 pm
@poppa69-278:
He could be sad cos that cr@p cricket team of ours still managers to kick SA out of a world cup
27 Aug 2012, 14:09 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-301: Meyer is making a excuse saying the team is inexperienced. Just look what Jake done with a team that really had no experience. Jake won the Tri-Nations in his very first year with a inexperienced young team. Meyer has NO excuse with the players he has.
27 Aug 2012, 14:09 pm
@poppa69-294:
yes, that would affect batsmen too i suppose. meaning the type of techniques they develop is influenced by the type of wicket/pitch/grounds they play on.
27 Aug 2012, 14:10 pm
@Hurricane-307:
yeah, but they probably took bribes that day..
not an unknown quality in SA cricketers is it?
27 Aug 2012, 14:10 pm
Puma – should get Mitchell or mallett with PdV player management and kiwi baiting abilities (a genius).
27 Aug 2012, 14:11 pm
@Puma-296:
mallet was not going to be touched on his studio after the game on sat, that much much was certain.
27 Aug 2012, 14:12 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-309:
We are mentally weak for the five day stuff, Houston, we usually get it over with by the third day,
27 Aug 2012, 14:12 pm
@Hurricane-307:
now now hurri, pops is a big boy
he can take care of himself
27 Aug 2012, 14:13 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-309: we are truly rubbish at the game, but are good enough to pull of an upset now and again.. unlike SA and her cricket, kiwi fans never have an expectation with our cricket team, and we are generally surprised when they do well..
Katman seems to think he is wounding me with stating the obvious, but bless him, hes on a mission…. he talks of internet decorum then does exactly what hes admonishing…
sure is funny
27 Aug 2012, 14:13 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-309:
no mate, we have shittest batsman and mediocre bowlers. Really not a good mix.
27 Aug 2012, 14:13 pm
@Te Rangatira-313:
ok, so t20 or 5 over stuff then.
27 Aug 2012, 14:14 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-317:
50 over
27 Aug 2012, 14:16 pm
Who cares about the cricket, we must beat the ABs.
27 Aug 2012, 14:17 pm
@cab-319: Katman cares, I think its because its a sport where you guys can beat us
27 Aug 2012, 14:19 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-317:
I luv the game, my right shoulder is had it because of cricket…..just happens our National side is not as good as most international sides…..I’l still watch it though from under the blankets.
27 Aug 2012, 14:19 pm
@cab-319:
Dont know, ask Katman. He seems to think knocking our rubbish cricket team hurst us…. bahahaha.
In fact it just makes us even happier that we are actually rugby fans. Poor Katman, grasping at the troll straws, always getting the short one.
27 Aug 2012, 14:20 pm
@Hurricane-316: You have also had some brilliant ones. One of my faves: Shane Bond (who was screwed with injuries…he was a copper I think before doing the bowling thing full time?)
Stephen Fleming – one of my all time bestest of the bestest cricketers.
Nathan Astle, Mcullum….and the legend Scotty Styris.
Enjoyed watching all of those over the years.
27 Aug 2012, 14:21 pm
@poppa69-315:
yes, suppose its just not the number one priority sport for you guys, nothing wrong with that. i for one wouldn’t enjoy it if a country tried to dominate every sport it played at national level. variety as they say is the spice of life.
no thank you, i’m not gonna let you drag me inbetween you and katman
only because you usually are the one to start a blogbrawl and you certainly were baiting and serving from the get go this morning
@Hurricane-316: @Hurricane-316:
yes, it would seem there no real desire among the responsible parties to push nz cricket’s development further. like your ab’s its all about structures, structures, structures….
27 Aug 2012, 14:21 pm
But Poppa we’ve been beating u in rugby for most of union history – I am expecting the trend to revert once the effects of playing with ourselves have worn off – we already starting to win s15 more regular and get more teams into playoff – ten years time it should be Boks no 1 and AB no 2, the way it’s meant to be.
27 Aug 2012, 14:22 pm
@Te Rangatira-321:
haha, yep i have a cricket injury, knee.
I was only an indoor player but if i saw so myself was pretty good.
Our team cosisted of Chris Nevin behind stumps and Heath Davies, well Heath being dangerous.
Played Chris Harris and few other black caps in tournaments.
PLayed at Irvin McSweeneys club.
27 Aug 2012, 14:22 pm
@sharks_lover-300:
hanging in there boet.
don’t have much time or inclination to spend on keo these days
27 Aug 2012, 14:23 pm
@cab-311: I would go with that Cabbie. Have no idea what Mitchell said to your players that got him into trouble. All I know is he had your Lions playing superb rugby in the CC last year. With Carlos of course. This year there were just too many injuries to your team for them to be judged. think they both top class coaches. Mallett would be too, though doubt he will want the job.
27 Aug 2012, 14:24 pm
@Te Rangatira-321:
then you should chat with gunther and pedigree,
they come in their pants for the game, by the sound of their chats at times.
27 Aug 2012, 14:26 pm
@Hurricane-326:
mcsweeneys pub..?..
come now hurri, indoor social cricket in a pub does not count
27 Aug 2012, 14:26 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-324: jatman doesnt worry me mate, I know his agenda… poor soul, finally found osmething to hang over us and it didnt get the reaction he hoped for
and yet, a kiwi bowler has more test wickets in his career than any South African bowler has. dont tell him though, it may upset him..
@cab-325: roh, you mean when you guys were cheats and only had afrikaan speaking refs and wouldnt allow us to play people with sun tans and when the najority of games were in your country?
under neutral refs we all know thats not true boet..
27 Aug 2012, 14:28 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-323:
Yep for sure.
Bond when he was on fire was amazing. That in swinging yorker at pace was a classic.
But we seem to have less and less of those players coming through.
All time favourite, Hadlee. He could cut the ball tboth ways and swing both ways with slower ball. Not many now can swing both ways, let alone cut the ball in different directions.
I actually had the pleasure to learn a wee bit from Hadlee and Deniss Lillee as they did a 3 week course for bowlers here in NZ.
Lillee damn funny, Hadlee a bit stuck up but still bloody good.
27 Aug 2012, 14:28 pm
@Puma-328:
i really think carlos had something to offer one of the other unions.
even if just a short term consultancy type role.
27 Aug 2012, 14:29 pm
@Hurricane-326:
My brother in law was a good indoor player…made the Nz side when Chris Harris was there, trying to remember the other players in his photos. I have no claims to fame however other than being fastidious with my whites.
27 Aug 2012, 14:29 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-330:
naa just kidding.
I played darts as well
27 Aug 2012, 14:30 pm
@Te Rangatira-334:
wow i might have played him at one stage.
Yeah i was not good enough for the Kiwi team but held my own.
Especially after the tournaments in the Bar.
27 Aug 2012, 14:30 pm
@Hurricane-332: still remember a ball he bowled Steve Waugh with, pitched on middle/off, nipped away and dislodged the off stump bail
still to my mind the greatest ball Ive seen bowled by a quick bowler… his control was remarkable
27 Aug 2012, 14:32 pm
eish the angst is heavy man, heavy.
anyone mention that jdv has turned into a crab yet?
27 Aug 2012, 14:33 pm
@poppa69-331:
well, later this year when the buffalo moers sonny we’ll one more sport to hang over you
that and a quiet confidence in the boks clinching the championship
27 Aug 2012, 14:34 pm
@Hurricane-335:
everything about you says ‘darts’..
27 Aug 2012, 14:35 pm
will see who they pick for oz and then decide whether to watch or not – best I dont cos I actually go ape-**** when they lose with all the talent left at home.
27 Aug 2012, 14:36 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-339: isnt he like 43 years old? SAs box? I thought you guys just pulled the trigger
27 Aug 2012, 14:41 pm
@rangerman-338:
yes, but what type of crab?
ghost crab? swimming crab? sand crab?
be more specific and we might provide an answer
27 Aug 2012, 14:42 pm
I would go with this for the next test
1. Beast
2. Strauss
3. WP
4. Bakkies
5. Andries (Needs to up his game)
6. Brussow
7. Alberts
8. Coetzee
9. Pienaar
10. Lambie
11. Hougaard
12. Steyn
13. Jean
14. Mvovo
15. Kirchner (JPP in the future)
27 Aug 2012, 14:42 pm
We complained about PDV bitterly but who would have known that Meyer would be such a tool?
27 Aug 2012, 14:42 pm
Absolutely pathetic game from the Springboks!
we jus arent sharp enough on attack and the breakdown my word that was shocking.
Heyneke Meyers pic was pathetic – like what is Jaque Potgieter doing there. and without Bismarck and Heinrich Brussow we donot have a fetcher; especially since Coetzee was nowhere to be seen
it was easy for Argentina to catch on to us in this second game coz we have such a bland gameplan. .
27 Aug 2012, 14:43 pm
@poppa69-342:
well, you wont be laughing and neither will sonny once he gets the come uppance he’s been long overdue
27 Aug 2012, 14:43 pm
I was out of town and missed the game and have also missed the replays unfortunately. I’ve read several times that the Boks were bullied up front but I find that extremely hard to believe as I can’t recall that ever happening. Now that everyone’s had time to let their emotions calm down a little and get their over-reactions out of the way and perhaps looked at a replay more calmly — is it true or BS that the Boks pack was bullied? For the life of me, I just can’t see that as possible. I know your team is without at least half a pack of world class forwards such as Juan (best forward in the world bar none, IMO), Burger, Broussow and Bismarck, and your two world class locks have retired, but to me no way could eight guys in those green shirts haver been bullied by anyone. I can accept they may have been beaten in the scrums or the lineouts, that can happen even to the Boks, but that word “bullied” really rankles with me. It’s just not a word I can associate with Springbok rugby. It would be easier for me to accept the earth was flat.
27 Aug 2012, 14:45 pm
@Boksarenumber1-345:
ahhh
but without the right tool
you can never expect to complete the job
(i just zen’ned your mind… dont fight it…)
27 Aug 2012, 14:46 pm
@Sandman8-346:
Yea coetzee the great was absent. Meyer will find out the hard way that the Boks need Brussow. What an idiot he is.
The Wallabies will beat us easy and the ABs will slaughter us.
I enjoyed watching Meyer squirming, no respect for that halfwit
27 Aug 2012, 14:47 pm
Bryan Habana must come off the bench now – I’m just not convinced he deserves to start
and Morne Steyn needs to stop stupidly kicking the ball away instead of playing it in hands. his kicks are not that tactical unless he is kicking for touch.
and replace Zane Kirchener with a more exciting and insightful fullback
27 Aug 2012, 14:49 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-349:
Lol @ zen
27 Aug 2012, 14:49 pm
@poppa69-342: You didn’t think, did you? Since 1927, SA has had 49 world titles in boxing between 35 fighters. I can find only two for NZ, and both back in the 1890′s. So don’t lift your leg where you have no intention to piss.
27 Aug 2012, 14:51 pm
@Monty15-348:
27 Aug 2012, 14:51 pm
@katman-353: Make that only one. A featherweight called Torpedo Billy Murphy in 1890.
27 Aug 2012, 14:51 pm
@Sandman8-351:
Morne Steyn is finished, he needs to be dropped. Zane is not a Boks backside.
Meyer is in for one hell of a shock
27 Aug 2012, 14:53 pm
@Boksarenumber1-352:
at zen you are mmmm
27 Aug 2012, 14:54 pm
@ all the so called rugby column writers at Keo. You guys change your stories from one article to another. It has been clear from the first team selected for England that there was a problem with selections. We could also see exaclty what his (HM) strategy or game plan was….and most people disagreed with it. It’s now come back to bite him and all of you so called rugby kenners. Firstly Morne Steyn should be there, then he shoudn’t be there, then he should be there etc etc etc. Wake the eff up Ryan…it has been proven since the last RWC that Steyn should not be there. How many more tests do we have to lose before you actually buy into it? HM’s record is played 5 and won 3 with 4 of those games at home….an absolute disgrace given the competition. Rugby has evolved but the Boks haven’t! Keo calls a spade a spade and its about time you did too. The Boks are cr@p at the moment thru bad game plan. The coach should be sacked….simple!
27 Aug 2012, 14:56 pm
@katman-353: actually you didnt think… did you not notice the smiley? or is it fact that every thing I post is serious?
hahaha but keep going, Im glad youve found something to make you feel better, have I got into your psyche that much?
27 Aug 2012, 14:58 pm
@katman-353: it doesnt surprise though, what with boxing being just as corrupt as cricket..
how many of those titles were brought?
27 Aug 2012, 14:59 pm
@Boksarenumber1-350:
yep Meye is such a putz.
the South African public can see that this is too big a task for him to handle.
at provincial level he would do just fine , but at national he has no idea what he is doing. i have a feeling we will be the laughing stock of international rugby this year.
27 Aug 2012, 15:00 pm
@Sandman8-351:
The game plan does not make provision for “exiting and insightful” rugby. Why do you need an
“exiting and insightful” FB?
27 Aug 2012, 15:01 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-357:
i like mmmm
27 Aug 2012, 15:02 pm
@poppa69-359:
Stop winding up the Saffas Poppa – we are very sensitive today!
27 Aug 2012, 15:02 pm
@nama1-362:
What game plan? Smash and grab
27 Aug 2012, 15:04 pm
@Sandman8-361:
Meyer had Matfield and Bakkies at the Bulls, they ran the show
27 Aug 2012, 15:05 pm
@poppa69-360: Fukkoff pal. You wanted to go down the “I didn’t know SA boxed road”. So here it is, Your list of world champs followed by ours:
New Zealand:
Thomas William Murphy – featherweight (1890)
South Africa:
Willie Smith – bantamweight, British version (1927)
Vic Toweel – bantamweight, Universal (1950)
Arnold Taylor – WBA bantamweight (1973)
Peter Mathebula – WBA flyweight (1980)
Gerrie Coetzee – WBA heavyweight (1983)
Piet Crous – WBA junior heavyweight (1984)
Brian Mitchell – WBA junior lightweight (1986)
Welcome Ncita – WBA & IBF junior featherweight (1990)
Dingaan Thobela – WBO lightweight (1990)
Brian Mitchell – IBF junior lightweight (1991)
Ditau Molefyane – WBF junior lightweight (1993)
Jacob Matlala – WBO flyweight (1993)
Dingaan Thobela – WBA lightweight (1993)
Vuyani Bungu – IBF junior featherweight (1994)
Mbulelo Botile – IBF bantamweight (1995)
Phillip Holliday – IBF lightweight (1995)
Gary Murray – WBU welterweight (1995)
Jacob Matlala – WBO junior flyweight (1995)
November Ntshingila – IBC featherweight (1995)
Francois Botha – IBF heavyweight (1995)
Thulani Malinga – WBC super middleweight (1996)
Sakhumzi Magxwalisa – WBU super flyweight (1996)
Mzukisi Sikali – WBU junior flyweight (1996)
Cassius Baloyi – WBU junior featherweight (1996)
Lehlohonolo Ledwaba – WBU bantamweight (1996)
Jacob Matlala – IBA junior flyweight (1997)
Peter Malinga – WBU welterweight (1997)
Patrick Quka – WBU bantamweight (1997)
Corrie Sanders – WBU heavyweight (1997)
Thulani Malinga – WBC super middleweight (1997)
Zolani Petelo – IBF mini flyweight (1997)
Cassius Baloyi – WBU featherweight (1998)
Thulani Malinga – WBF super middleweight (1998)
Mzukisi Sikali – WBU junior bantamweight (1998)
Simon Ramoni – IBO super bantamweight (1998)
Mpush Makambi – IBO middleweight (1998)
Jacob Mofokeng – WBU cruiserweight (1998)
Lindi Memani – WBU strawweight (1998)
Masibulele Makepula – WBU junior flyweight (1998)
Lehlohonolo Ledwaba – IBF junior featherweight (1999)
Sebastiaan Rothmann – WBU cruiserweight (1999)
Wele Maqolo – WBF mini flyweight (1999)
Zolile Mbityi – IBO flyweight (1999)
Peter Malinga – IBO welterweight (1999)
Masibulele Makepula – WBO junior flyweight (2000)
Mike Barnardo – WBF heavyweight (2000)
Dingaan Thobela – WBC super middleweight (2000)
Mbulelo Botile – IBF featherweight (2000)
Jacob Matlala – WBU junior flyweight (2001)
Corrie Sanders – WBO heavyweight (2003)
27 Aug 2012, 15:07 pm
I really cant support this Bok team sorry.
World rugby is the weakest it has been in decades
27 Aug 2012, 15:07 pm
@PissAnt-364: I would be appalled if you guys werent Morne…
but the circus hasnt changed , just the ring master
@katman-367: again, the smiley was there for a reason… but you go on, its beautiful to watch… must have been all those punching bags they had for practice you think?
27 Aug 2012, 15:10 pm
I read that Sonny Williams will be boxing the South African Afrikaaner who destroyed Simba’s career, in november
27 Aug 2012, 15:10 pm
@poppa69-369:
Yup thats what I tried to say earlier, Meyer, PDV, White, Straueli – all the same…
27 Aug 2012, 15:10 pm
This is so frustrating – we have world class talent in South Africa, but one idiot coach does not think so for a fact our South African rugby is strong , but the wrong combinations selected could ruin us.
can someone please tell that fool HM to open his eyes
27 Aug 2012, 15:12 pm
@poppa69-369:
take it like a man, pops
he’s nailed you there.
looks like a head to head of sports across the board will leave the kiwis squrming.
27 Aug 2012, 15:13 pm
@katman-367: gees katman, not many there before apartheid ended…??? strange….also, the sudden vast leap also seems to coincide with the advances in chemistry??
27 Aug 2012, 15:14 pm
15 Zane Kirchner
Joined the line well and solid under the high ball.
6/10
14 Bryan Habana
Chased kicks well and looked threatening with ball in hand before being taken off as a precautionary.
6/10
13 Jean de Villiers
One clean break aside, the Bok captain was much too lateral on attack.
5.5/10
12 Frans Steyn
The best Bok by a country mile and he missed two penalties. He saved the day with his charge-down and showed good composure to scoop up the ball and score.
7/10
11 Lwazi Mvovo
His chasing wasn’t up to standard, which in the context of the Boks’ game plan, is his primary job.
5/10
10 Morné Steyn
Didn’t kick his penalties and didn’t take authority. With everyone from Frans Steyn to Adriaan Strauss acting as first receiver, he needed to step up and take control.
4/10
9 Francois Hougaard
Still too slow to the breakdown and clearing from the base.
5/10
8 Willem Alberts
Bit late to arrive at the rucks but once there he cleaned out with reckless abandon.
5/10
7 Jacques Potgieter
Ironically one of his better Tests. Committed and high workrate. His 12 tackles were the most by any Springbok.
6/10
6 Marcell Coetzee
Struggled to provide the go-forward he’s become renowned for.
5.5/10
5 Andries Bekker
Described by Nick Mallett as ‘disgraceful’ and rightly so. Juan Martín Fernández Lobbe outsmarted him in the line-outs and he couldn’t stomach it. His body language when substituted said it all.
4/10
4 Eben Etzebeth
A physical force but his inexperience showed in the manner he lost his cool by the off-the-ball tactics of the wily Argentine.
6/10
3 Jannie du Plessis
Hit the rucks with velocity and really gave his all in the tight loose.
6/10
2 Adriaan Strauss
Shirked responsibility in the tight loose by constantly standing off.
5/10
1 Tendai Mtawarira
Was outgrafted by a 35-year-old.
5/10
27 Aug 2012, 15:15 pm
@Sandman8-372:
Thats always the case with Bok rugby, idiot coaches and quotas, yep nothing has changed
27 Aug 2012, 15:15 pm
@Boksarenumber1-370: Ja, Francois Botha. I hope he get’s himself in shape for this one.
27 Aug 2012, 15:16 pm
@374.poppa69 I would have pointed to advances in opportunity, not chemistry.
27 Aug 2012, 15:17 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-373: barbarians good at barbaric sports..
quelle surprise
@PissAnt-371: they all seem to have a very rigid idea of what and how their teams should play… not good, because as Im sure you are aware, you have to keep evolving and innovating your rugby… not sure why but you guys cant seem to come together at the top level for the benefit of your rugby, it truly is sad to see… said it many times, we need SA to be strong to keep pushing us..
27 Aug 2012, 15:18 pm
@nama1-362:
What i mean is that for instance compare Kirchener to the Sharks fullback (Viljoen) or the Stormers fullback
you can see that they are more tactical and run better lines than Kirchener and have overall better insight to play a better game on the field when required.
27 Aug 2012, 15:18 pm
WOW!! have seen some knee jerk reactions before but this is embarrassing, as Springbok fans we come out looking worse than the Italian football fans, have never seen such tearing of shirts and bemoaning of fate and the universe. The Boks had a shocker fact, can they play better of course they can, fact, has HM lost a test yet? no, fact………………..gentleman pull your skirts down and grow a set!!!!
27 Aug 2012, 15:19 pm
@Monty15-378: advances in the opportunity for chemistry or advances in the availability of chemistry?
27 Aug 2012, 15:19 pm
@Boksarenumber1-368: Must say I havent felt that kak about a Bok team in a lonnnnnggggg time. Hate watching the Boks lose but its the way we lost on Sat that really got to me
27 Aug 2012, 15:19 pm
@poppa69-379: Because the ozzies sure as hell won’t.
27 Aug 2012, 15:19 pm
@Boksarenumber1-365:
Precisely.
What do we need an “exiting and insightful” FB for if that is our game plan.
27 Aug 2012, 15:20 pm
@poppa69-374: Are you high? You make about as much sense as one who has just nicked his granny’s car radio to buy and smoke some crack.
27 Aug 2012, 15:21 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-373: theres only one sport that counts boet, this you know..
27 Aug 2012, 15:21 pm
@katman-377:
Thanks Francois Botha. Sonny Williams has guts but i reckon he is going to get his head knocked off, not going to miss that one.
27 Aug 2012, 15:21 pm
@poppa69-382:
dont taint us with your brush, old sport.
27 Aug 2012, 15:22 pm
@Captain Sam Vimes-381: Barring a fortuitous Frans Steyn charge down try, the Boks would have lost.
27 Aug 2012, 15:23 pm
The fact is that HM has not coached competitive rugby in the last two years, evedently it is also the period that SA’s type of rugby (first reciever rugby/ kick and chase) did not result in success. HM’s gameplan is three years to late to create any success!
If HM persists with his current strat and selections then he won’t make it to the end of 2013!
27 Aug 2012, 15:23 pm
@Bokhoring-390: but they didn’t did they………………………..? coulda shoulda woulda……………………bar for the Golden Bryce we would have been……………….
27 Aug 2012, 15:23 pm
What a rollercoaster ride it’s been on this site for the last two weeks:
13 Aug 2012: “MARK KEOHANE, in his weekly Business Day newspaper column, says Heyneke Meyer’s Boks aim to be ready by 2015 so don’t expect too much from them now.”
14 Aug 2012: “Heyneke Meyer says while tactical advances are being made, it is mental toughness that will be at the heart of the Springboks’ success in the Rugby Championship.”
16 Aug 2012: “MARK KEOHANE says the Pumas’ inclusion in the Rugby Championship will have significant benefits for the Springboks, but stresses that from a playing perspective they need time to settle.”
17 Aug 2012: “MARK KEOHANE and RYAN VREDE don’t believe Francois Hougaard is the answer as a starting scrumhalf. That man is in Japan and will still play a crucial role for the Springboks.”
18 Aug 2012: “Heyneke Meyer was satisfied with a winning start to the Rugby Championship, but admitted his disappointment in missing out on a four-try bonus point against Argentina.”
20 Aug 2012: “RYAN VREDE writes there is cause for optimism around the Springboks but there are also areas of concern that could be terminal to their Rugby Championship cause if not decisively addressed.”
20 Aug 2012: “MARK KEOHANE, in his weekly Business Day column, said the Springboks did what was expected of them at Newlands.”
22 Aug 2012: “RYAN VREDE writes the Springboks’ defensive excellence against Argentina is a greater cause for optimism than their failure to score a bonus point is cause for concern.”
24 Aug 2012: “MARK KEOHANE and RYAN VREDE predict another miserable weekend for Robbie Deans against an All Blacks side who will only be tested by the Springboks.”
24 Aug 2012: “MARK KEOHANE and RYAN VREDE agree that Morne Steyn is the best flyhalf we have in the context of what Heyneke Meyer wants to achieve with his game plan.”
25 Aug 2012: “MARK KEOHANE writes Australia were woeful in Auckland and the All Blacks will at least get a contest when they play the Springboks.”
26 Aug 2012: “Springbok head coach Heyneke Meyer says his players let themselves and the nation down with their disappointing performance against Argentina in Mendoza.”
26 Aug 2012: “MARK KEOHANE writes South Africa’s lack of leadership in the forwards was exposed in Mendoza, as was the naievety of a pack that is unfortunately a shadow of the bests who have worn the jersey in the past five years.”
27 Aug 2012: “RYAN VREDE writes that the Springboks’ performance in Mendoza was woeful but it is premature to make absolute judgements about Heyneke Meyer’s aptitude.”
27 Aug 2012: “MARK KEOHANE, in his weekly Business Day newspaper column, says Heyneke Meyer’s game plan and playing philosophy is simply not good enough.”
27 Aug 2012, 15:23 pm
@katman-386: if you cared to look katman, it was bakkies that brought up the boxing, not me… but you seem to have a bee in your bonnet whenever I post, and the fact I included a smiley to show I was joking got lost on you in your undoubted rage to try and “get me”
but youve been gunning for me for a while now, it really is delightful to me that you care so much..
thank you..
27 Aug 2012, 15:24 pm
@poppa69-387:
if only we’d get a fair go at it and be allowed to play an even game, meaning- whats good for the goose… *sigh*
(as if)
27 Aug 2012, 15:24 pm
@nama1-385: as long as Krusty is exiting stage left pronto…
@Bok fan-383: we actually drew
27 Aug 2012, 15:25 pm
@Bok fan-383:
I feel your pain but i really enjoyed watching Meyers pain, that goofball
27 Aug 2012, 15:26 pm
@Captain Sam Vimes-381: Wake up and smell the coffie, the writing is on the wall and you aren’t reading it.
27 Aug 2012, 15:26 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-395: you werent a boxer in your youth were you? you seem like the grizzled old pro who has had one too many knocks to the head and continually mutters to himself “I couldve been a contender bro”
27 Aug 2012, 15:27 pm
@poppa69 382 Unfairly smearing sportsmen with a smile on your face is still a smear. They worked hard for many years to win those titles yet you make your accusations without proof. First you suggest they won because the bouts were rigged, then you suggest they were drug cheats. Both claims are baseless. I think that’s shameful.
27 Aug 2012, 15:27 pm
@trupisero-396:
LOL i never posted that we lost but it sure as hell felt like it
27 Aug 2012, 15:27 pm
@Boksarenumber1-397:
no
its boofball
do your homework…
27 Aug 2012, 15:27 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-373: a crabbing crab.
the worst kind.
i nearly tore the sunday times to shreds when i read that lightweigtht liam del carmes opinions and wrap up.
now liam may be a good guy but its clear he is usually as pissed as blades by halftime as there is nothing remotely incisive about his writing. how i miss the good old days of siminikwe, now theres a rugby man and genuine sports journo.
anyways, old liam reckons that JdV was operating on a “different plain” to the rest of the bok backline and the rest “need to come up to his level”??????????
WHAT?
seriously, the oke had a mare only eclipsed by morne in my opinion.
27 Aug 2012, 15:28 pm
@Sandman8-380:
They also play a different game plan inviting them to join the back line at times.
Yhe Boks, under Meyer, don’t.
@capebull-375:
“12 Frans Steyn
The best Bok by a country mile and he missed two penalties. He saved the day with his charge-down and showed good composure to scoop up the ball and score.
7/10″
I knew this would happen. A lucky packet charge down try and he suddenly had a great game.
How blind can you be!!!
Yes, he saved the day for the Boks but he did not play well.
27 Aug 2012, 15:29 pm
Mallet was so upset, he really cares about the Boks. He could not believe how dumb Meyer is. Naas Botha just speaks trash
27 Aug 2012, 15:30 pm
@goodstuff-398: ahhh well I guess time will tell, me I am a die hard Bok fan and I believe we will get better, I stand by what I said earlier…………….isn’t there a famous saying that the Keo scribes love quoting…………”a week is a long time in rugby” but then I remember a certain union saying HM wasn’t up to scratch after he finished a super rugby season in last place………that turned out pretty bad for them in the long run hey
27 Aug 2012, 15:30 pm
Monty15
havent seen precious levels that high since katman came at me earlier… theyre just jokes boet..
I realise youre probably upset because your rugby gods are mere mortals, but Im just having a laugh…
like no NZ sportsman has ever been vilified here
27 Aug 2012, 15:30 pm
@Captain Sam Vimes-392: I suspect we used our get-out-of-jail card with that one. I hope Meyer uses this opportunity to rethink his whole strategy – at least start working on other arrows in the quiver than predictable kick-and-chase and bash-it-up
27 Aug 2012, 15:31 pm
@poppa69-399:
baie snaaks
no, the closest i got to boxing of any professional sort was as a backyard breker.
i won a lot of my fights and i lost a lot of my fights.. ahh… good times…good times..
27 Aug 2012, 15:31 pm
@nama1-404: Its not my scores its from Rugby365 , but in saying that was there any back better than Frans ? I agree if he was the best what does it say about the rest?
27 Aug 2012, 15:32 pm
@poppa69-379:
Indeed, until the national coach is supported by structures at all lower levels of rugby and administration (specifically contracting and the access he has to his top players) absolutely nothing will change.
27 Aug 2012, 15:32 pm
@Monty15-400: ag poops is here to wind people up.
his life is s h it.
well thats the only explanation i can come up with.
27 Aug 2012, 15:33 pm
@@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-402: _
You are a female right? or ***? cos you love bakkies
27 Aug 2012, 15:33 pm
@Boksarenumber1-401:
ag boet, “there’s little difference between winning and losing, except you feel better after winning”.
27 Aug 2012, 15:34 pm
Geez g a y is banned on keos
27 Aug 2012, 15:35 pm
“Ons moet nou op ons volgende wedstryd fokus. Ons sal waarskynlik nou wegwedstryde moet wen én 10 ligapunte by die huis insamel. Dit gaan nie maklik wees om nou in Nieu-Seeland en Australië te speel nie.”
Die feit dat sy span verskeie vars gesigte en ’n paar jong spelers gehad het, is volgens hom nie ’n verskoning nie.
“Ons moet hieruit leer. Dit is deel van geestelike krag om weg van jou huis af te kan speel. Dan het ons ook nog baie strafskoppe afgestaan.
“Vier strafskoppe in die eerste 10 minute is onaanvaarbaar.
“Maar dissipline is ook deel van geestelike krag. Ons het mos geweet dit gaan ’n harde wedstryd wees, ons gaan onder druk wees en die skare gaan raserig wees,” het Meyer gesê.
27 Aug 2012, 15:35 pm
@nama1-404: agreed, he had a poor gamer by his standards but then again, what do you expect with the kind of ball he received?
and you cant downplay a brilliant try because it doesnt fit your agenda pellie, it stands and is basically the reson we arent tearing meyer a completely new one today.
27 Aug 2012, 15:35 pm
@Bokhoring-408: I get the feeling that this week is going to be a hellllllluva long one for the guys in practice, Meyer strikes me as the kind of guy who wont tolerate what the team did on Saturday……..I very much doubt that the Boks will be anything but amped for the test in Perth.
27 Aug 2012, 15:37 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-409:
so you have no teef left boet?
@PissAnt-411: thats where isolation did more damage then many will admit, you guys are still paying for it today.. surely there are enough smart people to look at NZs structures and adapt some of them to fit the SA model?
@rangerman-412:my life would be shi.t if my team needed a lucky packet charge down to draw with Argentina… the fact my team nilled the number 2 ranked side, and is the second time this season they have nilled another nations team, fills me with euphoria… life is schweet..
27 Aug 2012, 15:37 pm
i mean really “lucky packet charge down”?
could you be more obvious in your squirming need to put fransie down lmao!
ifit was “lucky packet” then why werent other boks doing it left right and center ya knobber?
27 Aug 2012, 15:38 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-414:
I watch the Boks to win games, i have no joy when they lose.
I seriously don’t think Meyer has the ability to change his mind or has a another game plan. We are doomed. Brussow should kick his a.s.s
27 Aug 2012, 15:38 pm
@rangerman-403:
hehe
siminkiwe actually reminds me of a young (very young) mark keohane, who was similarly insightful when he started out.
and now that you mention it, i’ve always had a sneeky suspicion transie and siminkiwe might be one and the same person haha
27 Aug 2012, 15:40 pm
@poppa69-419:
another “lucky packet” comment haha.
nama and poops, whatta pair.
its awesome that you are happy man, seriously. because we have all seen the polar opposite you sometimes spend time in and it aint pretty.
27 Aug 2012, 15:40 pm
@Boksarenumber1-413:
no,
its a straight manly love.
like the spartans.
27 Aug 2012, 15:40 pm
@ poppa69 407
“I realise youre probably upset because your rugby gods are mere mortals …”
My rugby gods are the ABs and I know they’re mere mortals, you don’t have to tell me that.
A mate of mine was once a Commonwealth champion and I’ve seen up close how hard boxers work to make it to the top and how tough a game it really is, so I get a bit prickly when people can fire off glib one-liners about fixes and drug cheats, whether joking or not. You find it funny, I don’t.
27 Aug 2012, 15:40 pm
Can’t take the Boks seriously, not worth the pain
27 Aug 2012, 15:41 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-422: nah, siminikwe surely isnt transie?
i will have to revise all sorts of ideas then
27 Aug 2012, 15:42 pm
@rangerman-420: you have no idea of what “lucky” means… the kick could have rebounded in any direction, it fell nicely for him..
but remain oblivious, Frans was very ordinary as Nama says, but I understand he is a sharkie and you are a fanbooi and so he walks on water..
he was no where in the game though, truth..
27 Aug 2012, 15:42 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-424:
cool
LOL
27 Aug 2012, 15:43 pm
and just for the record, someone please remind me what our recent record against France is……………………I mean the Argies are so **** that they only managed to knock off the world cup finalists oh twice
27 Aug 2012, 15:43 pm
@Monty15-425: I suggest you dont use the internet then bro, because strange as it may seem, there are many many people who fire of glib one liners…
27 Aug 2012, 15:44 pm
All blacks and Aussies must be licking their lips. But it’s all not lost. Things can be turned around if hard decisions are made. Inexperience showed on Saturday, and some lack of leadership in terms of changing whats not working on the field. This team will grow from the experience no doubt.
27 Aug 2012, 15:44 pm
‘Look Heyneke there’s your Jacque … big, strong and f**king dumb’.
27 Aug 2012, 15:45 pm
@poppa69-419:
absolutely do, they’re my pride and joy.
i’m pretty sure they’re my most attractive feature too, seriously.
i’ve got a shrek thing going looks wise, and have earned every bit of female action
i’ve ever got in my life the hard way.
i can be a charmer and have the greatest personality i’m told
27 Aug 2012, 15:45 pm
@capebull-410:
I know it is not yours.
Hougie was the best back on the field imo. May even have been the best Bok player even though he went AWOL late in the 2nd half.
True, it does not say much about the performances of the other players.
@rangerman-417:
A “brilliant try” my arse. It was pure luck. Luck that the Bokke did not deserve at all.
Two games in a row now where he was nowhere, Rangerman. Let’s see what he does in the four games to come. That will be against the top two sides in the world, you know.
Not Namibia, Samoa, Fidji and the likes.
27 Aug 2012, 15:46 pm
@Boksarenumber1-405: I really am enjoying Mallet in the SS studio. Wears his heart on his sleeve and says it like it is. Very refreshing instead of hearing excuses.
27 Aug 2012, 15:46 pm
@poppa69-428: i also said he didnt have a great game poops
“lucky packet” is simply an attempt to denigrate an individual effort, you know it, i know it.
yes, it did bounce correctly but that could be froma charge down, an up and under, a grubber or any other time a rugby ball bounces.
the important thing you and nama overlook is that he had to BE IN POSITION to make the charge down, he had to STAY CALM and regather and he also had to outdistance the argies chasing him.
all in all, a fine effort.
in an otherwise average display.
with poor ball the order of the day.
happy my precious little kiwibird
27 Aug 2012, 15:46 pm
@Boksarenumber1-421:
ja, i know
i was quoting pdivvy
27 Aug 2012, 15:49 pm
@nama1-404: Once a hater always a hater,
27 Aug 2012, 15:49 pm
@Bok fan-383: A draw I know, but felt like a loss as we were out played in every facet of the game
27 Aug 2012, 15:49 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-434:
a shrek look?
okay Fiona, I beieve you
27 Aug 2012, 15:49 pm
@poppa69 431
I think it might be a better idea if you don’t use the internet. Seeing there’s so many, many people like you, surely it won’t hurt if one of you disappear?
27 Aug 2012, 15:49 pm
@Bokhoring-408: how i wish i could see a try scored from first phase with a classy back line move. If we are going to move on and play more dynamically so to speak, Meyer has to incorporate some innovation along with practicing the execution of his game plan.
27 Aug 2012, 15:50 pm
@nama1-435: ok.
you swallowed it hook line and sinker.
taste good?
you see you say “lucky packet” and i say “brilliant” and then we find common ground.
a great individual effort that spare us blushes, what do you say?
p.s. he was good in the first argie game but with ball like we had on sat and morne inside of him, i feel for the guy because he is simply awesome dont you agree?
27 Aug 2012, 15:51 pm
@poppa69-441:
unlike you kiwis, i have no problem being honest about myself
27 Aug 2012, 15:51 pm
Oh and for the record I remember everyone’s view on how fantastic Genia is “The worlds greatest” Fourie average …………………….and now Willie G also got a nice big fat to duck against his name………………explanation please?
27 Aug 2012, 15:52 pm
@goodstuff-391: Agreed, he has the ability as a coach so lets hope he starts making the necessary adjustments and fast
27 Aug 2012, 15:52 pm
@rangerman-437: cmon Ranger, how often do players attempt charge downs? all the time, the law of statistics will ensure that eventually you will manage to knock one down..
Im still not sure he was he onside though
27 Aug 2012, 15:52 pm
@rangerman-427:
every man has a dark side
27 Aug 2012, 15:52 pm
@rangerman-444: Nope Ranger bro he wont agree, If JDJ scored that try on Saturday OLd Nyama would be screaming it from the top of the clouds as brilliant.
He aint never had 1 good word to say about Fransie, so dont expect him to agree. aint ever gonna happen
27 Aug 2012, 15:53 pm
@Captain Sam Vimes-430: if we can’t beat argentina let us say loucd and clear then that “we are rebuilding and see you at the world cup in 2015″
The Springbok team to face Argentina in Mendoza is: (411 caps – Forwards – 130 Backs – 281)
ARGENTINA’S STARTING XV: ( 367 caps, Forwards – 217, Backs 150)
27 Aug 2012, 15:53 pm
@WP-Forever-393: There are none so deaf as those who would not listen to the ‘Cape’ haters
Hell, the one chap even changed his nic at the time to read: SHARKS FANS ARE TRUE BOK SUPPORTERS or something to that effect. And that after a few Capetonians raised a concern or two about the squad make-up and utterances made by Meyer..
Times, they have a changed, in record time
27 Aug 2012, 15:53 pm
@Monty15-425: You’ve got to give Poepa a lot of leeway here. He’s always only “returning serve”. Everything he does here is always in some kind of indignant retaliation, so totally justified. He’s also very culturally sensitive, so his issues may not be addressed for risk of belittling entire swaths of people. He’s a delicate one, our Poeps.
27 Aug 2012, 15:54 pm
‘Dear Pat,
I write to you with some regret, Patrick. As coach of the team that was formerly a force in world rugby, I have the unpleasant job of informing my players who I pick on any given Saturday. The Springbuck (as Hugh Bladen calls it) stops with me you see.
I need to make a call this Saturday, as I know you were fairly pissed off (those were John Plumtree’s words) about not getting any game time against Argentina in Cape Town. It all comes down to experience Pat.
You see you only have 13 Test caps and are 21 years old. Yes, I know you have 35 Super Rugby caps and have scored 344 Super Rugby points but that doesn’t count you see. Your 22 Currie Cup caps are also fairly irrelevant too as who takes that thing seriously anymore besides Kevin De Klerk? I know you are more experienced than players like Aaron Cruden, Aaron Smith and Sonny Bill Williams but that’s not how it works here in South Africa. How many Bulls caps do you have Pat?
’5 more up and unders and we’re done here people’
I would prefer to leave you on the bench Pat. Yes, for the whole game. You look like you could do with another 80 minutes of ‘chill time’ as you youngsters call it. What on earth you did for 80 minutes on the bench at Newlands, Naas Botha alone knows! While you’re on the bench his time Pat, take the time to read my game plan because after watching you in Super Rugby it is clear to me that you just don’t get it.
You persist on attacking the gain line Pat. Now anyone who knows anything about rugby knows that the best form of attack is defence! So kick the ball to the opposition and do some defending man. It’s pretty simple. Zane can explain.
Another thing you need to grasp, is this whole ‘tackling at the ankles’ thing. I know you do it but you really need to stop. Who is going to kick the next up and under if you’re getting involved in the dirty work? Beast Mtawarira?
So now you know what you need to work on, sit back and relax for another 80 minutes and watch Morne’s masterclass. See you on the flipside (isn’t that a cool thing to say to young okes?).
Cheers,
Heyneke Meyer (Unbeaten Bok Rugby Coach)’.
27 Aug 2012, 15:55 pm
@poppa69-428: Poppa basically with the bok game plan any second five wont shine, as the play stops at flyhalf, even with good ball Morne stands so deep its difficlut for any 12 attack the gain line and make meters. Even SBW wont shine in the bok setup as the game plans are so different. So its difficult really to judge Frans steyn.
27 Aug 2012, 15:56 pm
@Transformation-433: I’m convinced that Meyer sees sunlight shining through Potgieter that none of us can see. It’s just perplexing. You find yourself watching his game closely just to see what the hell it is that we are missing, that Meyer sees so clearly, and still we come up blank.
27 Aug 2012, 15:57 pm
@Monty15-442:
did you find it offensive that I suggested there may be drugs in sport, specifically boxing?
or is it that there has NEVER been a poor decision in a boxing match, and as such my words to that effect are unfounded?
is your boxing mate also your boyfriend?
27 Aug 2012, 15:58 pm
@Transformation-451: Are there still people on this site trying to gloss over the Meyergate scandal?
I am busy drafting a letter on behalf of SARU to Mr Barend van Graan. It goes something like this.
Dear sir,
Please collect the following from our lost property counter at HQ in CT:
1 x Head coach
1 x Forward/Attack coach (your blood…)
1 x Backline coach
1 x ‘D’ coach
Please be informed that the fee to release above mentioned articles, is 5.5 million (I see it more as a full refund for dodgy purchases)
Please act post haste.
The ‘Jurie’ has spoken.
Signed:
Judge, Jurie and Executioner.
27 Aug 2012, 15:59 pm
@poppa69-457: That’s 3 lines. You’re out of order.
27 Aug 2012, 16:00 pm
This whole Mendozagate experience has taught me one thing: a good Superugby/Currie Cup record does not translate to success at Test level, and HM is a good example of that. Also look at Robbie Deans, with numerous Super 12 titles but he still can’t produce consistently at the highest level. Rudolf Streauli had also come off a good campaign with the Sharks when he got the Bok job and I don’t need to remind you what happened! On the other hand, coaches who were plucked out of obscurity or who at least didn’t have any high profile jobs before tend to do well, i.e. Nick Mallett, Jake White, Peter de Villiers, etc.
27 Aug 2012, 16:00 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-452: Heyneke
Before the Mendoza Test: justifying DROPPING Keegan “It is always difficult playing the same team back to back. When I was more inexperienced as a coach you changed things depending on what the opposition wanted to believe. I now believe you have to force your game plan.
“You are only as good as the opposition allow you to be,” concluded Meyer.
After the debacle in Mendoza: questioned about team selection
“It is easy to throw players out and pick new ones, but that is not coaching, that is picking,” he told reporters at OR Tambo airport in Johannesburg.
“I have been in this position a few times during my career as a coach and the easiest thing to do is just drop players – but that will not move the Springboks forward.
27 Aug 2012, 16:00 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-458:
how high up on heynek meyer’s list of priorities do you think the western cape is?
as if.
27 Aug 2012, 16:01 pm
Meyer is a twit. He hasn’t got the brains to drop Morne drop Zane and recall Brussow and change the game plan. You okes are gonna be very sad if you think he is not just another PDV clown
27 Aug 2012, 16:01 pm
@Transformation-451: Why does the worlds greatest scrumhalf have a to duck against his name
hahahahahahahah
27 Aug 2012, 16:02 pm
@rossoneri-456: Apparently he was selected for his added bulk to counter the Argies impressive rolling maul exploits. Didn’t make much of a difference in my opinion, in fact its quite ironic that the smallest loosie Daniels happened to make the biggest impact at the maul when he came on….making a turnover. But im not too concerned about Potgieter as i think ( i could be wrong) that he is merely a stop gap, and guys like Burger and Vermuelen are above him in the pecking order.
27 Aug 2012, 16:02 pm
@sharks_lover-450: ag i am just yanking his chain because he is so stubborn.
and he has the temerity to accuse meyer of having a one track mind
27 Aug 2012, 16:02 pm
@Mustard 455
Frans should switch to loosehead prop. In a certain light he could almost be Tony Woodcock’s doppelganger. I feel he could be the Boks’ new Okey Geffin, the goalkicking front rower. Seriously, he looks too hefty and ponderous for the midfield, I’d prefer him at 15. If he hit the line at speed he’d take some stopping, and back there, he’d have more time and space to slot some of those enormous 55m-60m droppies.
27 Aug 2012, 16:03 pm
@trupisero-454:
while you’re at why dont you draft a letter to plumtree asking him what the mother f was up with playing the froggy over patrick for most of the super 15.. huh..?..
is pat a fullback?
why di plm play him there in the super final?
how did that work out..?..
its ok
take your time…
27 Aug 2012, 16:04 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-462: you honest baxxies? hehe I can see the armband now, “justice against them nasty filthy hobbitses what rob us orcs”
27 Aug 2012, 16:05 pm
@trupisero-454: Classic!
27 Aug 2012, 16:06 pm
@Mustard-443: When your forwards coach is also your attack coach – don’t expect much of that
27 Aug 2012, 16:07 pm
@trupisero-454: bwaaaaaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!
very funny.
lets just stick with morne. why start complicating things by having an actual decision maker at 10?
if i wasnt so annoyed on sat night i would have laughed at mallet and ashwins comments.
as it is, i was just more annoyed.
ffs, morne must get lost. he cant even kick his penalties?
27 Aug 2012, 16:07 pm
@Mustard-455: can agree to a point… would beinterested to see him play with another flyhalf to gauge his effectiveness, I do think his distribution skills need work.. much like an early Nonu who couldnt pass for rubbish, but he has worked on it to the extent that it is now one of his strengths..
27 Aug 2012, 16:07 pm
@poppa69-469:
ahh the old bait and switch
we wont fall for your divide and conquer tactics pops
eendrag maak mag (unity is strength)
27 Aug 2012, 16:07 pm
@Transformation-470: Willie G to duck…………………………explanation?
27 Aug 2012, 16:08 pm
@nama1-404:
nama1 – of the 15 names on the lists surprise, surprise you chose to isolate and target F Steyn’s rating.
F Steyn owns your thoughts. F Steyn owns you.
27 Aug 2012, 16:08 pm
@sharks_lover-439:
hater- such a harsh word that get bandied around way to easily.
I just don’t rate him as high as some of you okes. He is no Messiah.
@rangerman-444:
Let’s just say I believe you when you say you were throwing out some bait. You love to fish, after all.
Njaa, he was not good in the 1st game last week. Watch it again.
Morne was on his inside against Namibia during the RWC last year when he had such a “great” performance. He was the spark that set the back line alight in that game, according to most. Remember?
He will have to learn to work with that kind of ball because that is what he will get against the top sides.
27 Aug 2012, 16:08 pm
@Monty15-467: We wont see Frans at 15 any time soon. HM has made a commitment to him that he will play 12. The only way i foresee him at 15 is in 2 years time when Jaque Fourie returns, which would mean Jean moving back to 12 (from permitting) and Fransie to 15.
27 Aug 2012, 16:09 pm
i would sooner pick fouche at flyhalf than lambie
serioulsy
the kids got everything and bulk
27 Aug 2012, 16:10 pm
@nama1-435: how is it luck when you put the pressure on and actually look for the charge-down? that’s intent, not fortune. Charlie Hodgson made two of them this year in the 6N and Eng won 2 away games because of it.
Why the need to try to bash Steyn at any opportunity anyway? what is it about him you don’t like?
27 Aug 2012, 16:10 pm
it seems quite clear that our decision maker (under meyers plan) is supposed to be at 9.
but hougie is nowhere close and shouldnt have to be.
the same sharks players were playing an awesome brand of rugga at the end of the s15. plum must be fuming that they are getting a shithouse brand of rugby drilled into them at the boks.
meyer has time but he needs to get cracking and make it count now.
sharpish.
27 Aug 2012, 16:10 pm
lambie is too slow and hesitant
and small
27 Aug 2012, 16:11 pm
@poppa69-457
“is your boxing mate also your boyfriend?”
OMG, does that pass as wit here? Help me find the door. No, not to leave, I urgently need to barf. And, Poppa, with any luck you’ll be standing just outside the door when I projectile-vomit through it.
Please, if you’re going to be as lame as that, forget I’m even here. That inane ****-boyfriend query **** went out before the internet arrived. I’m cringing for you. Utterly.
27 Aug 2012, 16:11 pm
Bok squad being announced tomorrow….
meeting up again in Joburg Thursday….
27 Aug 2012, 16:12 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-474: its not me you have to worry about bru… its them kiwi coaches in your country, theyve already screwed over the lions (hence katmans vendetta
)..
Robbie is doing it to the aussies
and gatland has been doing it to the Welsh..
I am merely small fry in the whole divide and conquer strategy employed by Steve tew and all us kiwis..
27 Aug 2012, 16:13 pm
@nama1-477: mate, if you are comparing mornes supply of ball to his backline against namibia to this game then its clear you are reching hard
wake up.
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-479: ag now you are aving a larf.
douche…sorry, fouche, played one awesome game at cc level and suddenly he must play ahead of pat, a cc motm winner?
dont be silly.
27 Aug 2012, 16:13 pm
@nama1-477: Nah dude when you slate someone with every second word you type about that person?? it’s hate. no difference that the old Smitty hate in here, thus the 3rd grade names he is being called like Fat Steyn, but ya whatever floats ur boat,
27 Aug 2012, 16:13 pm
@Transformation-461:
As I have said before, the man comes across as extremely arrogant (and not self confident as what some would have us believe…)
Away from the rugby field, he seems a decent and moral fellow. But it seems he has declared himself ‘all knowing’ when it comes to anything rugby related.
And that is not an assumption from a ‘Capetonian’, it is what HE himself is throwing out there. Howthefuckelse can one interperet some of the things he says?
27 Aug 2012, 16:14 pm
@rangerman-466:
wow @ temerity, great word. Meyer is a d o o s
27 Aug 2012, 16:14 pm
MONTY15.Welcome to the site.You will find a lot of good,intelligent
and humorous people on both sides of the BOK/AB divide.Unfortunately
you will find a lot of dose as well.
Dose (ask Kevin Pietersen)
27 Aug 2012, 16:14 pm
@rangerman-481:
true
he is not doing the job … at all
he has no sense of when to send it to a forward and keep bashing
and when to pass or skip pass to a midfield runner
when to box kick effectively or
when to slow the base clearance or speedily pass the base clearance
he really is a mixed bag at the moment and as the chief decision maker this is not on.
27 Aug 2012, 16:14 pm
@Monty15-483:
and yet you felt it necessary to bite and respond..
some mighty dumb fish here today..
27 Aug 2012, 16:14 pm
Which coach is more under pressure to win between Dingo and HM??, its going to be interesting, I can’t wait….
27 Aug 2012, 16:14 pm
@rangerman-486:
and it’s not like he proved himself against Pat 
27 Aug 2012, 16:15 pm
@poppa69-473: I don’t think there is any doubt of his aptitude at 12. Remember him playing along side butchie? His has all the skills and vision for a 12. However, i am a bit concerned with the additional weight his carrying. He doesn’t look as lean as he did say in 2009 for eg. and seems sluggish off the mark. And some of his decision making needs works…in this test if im not mistaken i think it was him who threw that cut out pass to Bekker when they had a 4 on 2 overlap which is unforgivingable, if the passes went through the hands it was a definite try. Things like that needs work.
27 Aug 2012, 16:15 pm
@grant10-484: The anticipation will kill me…. ***rolling rolling rolling rolling eyes***
27 Aug 2012, 16:15 pm
@Big Hit-480: nama probably thinks frans is keeping a more deserving player out of the 12 jersey though for the life of me i couldnt think who he would prefer?
charge downs arent lucky packet and scoring tries off them after they are achieved is not lucky packet either.
it takes skill and speed.
if it was sunni, nama and poops would be sliding off their chairs
27 Aug 2012, 16:15 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-468: michalak was the magic that undid the stormers defence, he was firing in brisbane too, it would’ve been stupid of plumtree to yank the frenchie out JUST to play lambie @ 10.
27 Aug 2012, 16:16 pm
@Humphrey-476:
All he owns is his ego. 7/10 just popped up at me.
The other okes ratings were at least acceptable albeit a point or two too high. All of them.
Nobody deserved more than a 5 imo.
27 Aug 2012, 16:17 pm
Trupisero @ 454.Good post.Would be funny if not so sad.Feel for the kid.
27 Aug 2012, 16:18 pm
@Boksarenumber1-489: haha, i also like tantamount.
as in:
his temerity is tantamount to wilful ignorance.
@Mustard-495: just passing to bekker was frikken dof.
27 Aug 2012, 16:20 pm
@Big Hit-480: relax BigHit we know you’re a guppy too
the low trajectory of the clearance is something that fransie could not have anticipated…”right place at the right time” and good on him!
in SA we believe in a lot of things but “manufactured charge downs” not a fark”
27 Aug 2012, 16:20 pm
@poppa69-485:
see pops… honesty becomes you..
@rangerman-486:
look, we all have our opinions but i really think the boy has possibly everything to offer the boks. if morne’s missing kicks then maybe shock him into form by selecting fouche who is big, a ball carrier, a good distributor, has a great sense of when its on and even coordinates calls to and from 9 and finally has a moster of a boot (a la frans steyn) that can do no wrong.
seriously
why he hasn’t gotten a callup yet is beyond me
27 Aug 2012, 16:20 pm
Bookies must be a mess after two rounds. And if we go on to beat Australia in Perth, and the Argies run NZ closer than the Aussies, no one’s going to have a clue what odds to give on anything. Potential to make some money.
27 Aug 2012, 16:21 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-479: Nee man? Die kind het omtrent 160 minute rugby agter die rug, en dit in die Curriebeker?
Hulle het hom hoeveel keer in die S15 gebruik? Elke week het hy daar gesit op die bank soos Forest Gump en geduldig gewag vir sy 2 minute speel tyd elke 4de wedstryd.
Hy het potensiaal ja, maar liewefok, praat van iemand vir die wolwe gooi na ‘n paar minute se Curriebeker rugby.
Goosen is elk geval ver voor hom, glo ek?
27 Aug 2012, 16:21 pm
@nama1-499: bullshit.
go sell that somewhere else.
you have had a hard on for the kid for years buddy.
its actually quite pathetic considering all that he has achieved.
games fransie won:
2009 3n decider
boks vs aus at newlands
two that stand out without any thought.
27 Aug 2012, 16:22 pm
Mustard
he is a talent, but too often for me anyways he seems to play selfishly… Israel dagg did the same thing in the test versus the Wallabies, got tryline fever when a simple pass would have resulted in a try..
against the best teams you cant really afford those mistakes, it can be the difference between winning and losing.
27 Aug 2012, 16:23 pm
@poppa69-492
I may be a dumb fish but even so I don’t stink as much as your “wit”. That reeked the place out. As soon as you sent that, 200 people logged off. And, yes, of course I responded, you embarrassed yourself and I don’t want you to do so again. Have some pride man. (And please don’t respond to that comment with something lame about *** pride, rattle your braincell about and come up with something a bit more original. Go on, push yourself out of your comfort zone.)
27 Aug 2012, 16:23 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-503: are you seriously proposing that fouche be fast tracked into the boks to replace morne?
i will not grace any further discussion along these lines with a reply.
i believe you are trying to wind people up
27 Aug 2012, 16:23 pm
@Transformation-498:
fair enough but he did play a lot more than just two games at 10 transie.
27 Aug 2012, 16:24 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-505: and goosen is surely behind pat?
because if he isnt then we are farked.
27 Aug 2012, 16:25 pm
anyways crackers and crackeads (poops) i am out.
have a goodie.
27 Aug 2012, 16:27 pm
@Monty15-508: mate, youre the one who got all upset because I suggested that some boxers may take drugs..
but do go on, I find it refreshing that someone could be so naive about the possibility of sports people using drugs to enhance their performance..
27 Aug 2012, 16:27 pm
@Monty15-508: I’m afraid you’re trying to tell a little kid not to pick his nose. Not going to work. He will continue to embarrass himself week in and week out, adding little chuckles and smileys as if to imply that everyone finds him hilarious. It’s hard to watch.
27 Aug 2012, 16:31 pm
@katman-514: I really own your thoughts dont i katman, you just cant help yourself…
love it… ..
27 Aug 2012, 16:31 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-510: goosen is in front of pat, in meyer’s estimation!
meyer sees pat as a fullback who can play 10 BUT has to work on his tactical kicking to be good enough for Test rugby!
27 Aug 2012, 16:35 pm
@Transformation-433:
‘Look Heyneke there’s your Siya … small, fragile and NOT f**king dumb’.
27 Aug 2012, 16:35 pm
@poppa69-513
Yes I got annoyed that you accused what, 50? 100? SA boxing world champions of being drug cheats. But how did that lead to your suggestion that I may have a boxing boyfriend? Where did that come from? Puerile, pal, totally juvenile BS. I like a debate but when you come out with imbecilic garbage like that you just make yourself look silly and make the whole conflab a waste of time. If I’d wanted the sort of dribble I expect from teenagers I’d be at a BMX site, not here.
27 Aug 2012, 16:37 pm
@Transformation-516: Well Meyer also sees POttie as the big cheese power bomb loose forward and MOrne as the savior of 10′s and we saw how that panned out
27 Aug 2012, 16:38 pm
@RL-517: Luyt tears into Lions’ bosses
CRAIG RAY | 27 August, 2012 08:190 Comments
FORMER Golden Lions Rugby Union president Louis Luyt has hit out at the management of the once-proud union after the Lions were relegated from Super rugby for 2013.
Lions battle in the boardroom Luyt, who retired from the GLRU in 2000, left Ellis Park with the Lions in rude financial health. They had “R85-million in cash reserves and no debt”, yet today they are technically bankrupt.
“It’s not a question of what’s happened to the GLRU but rather a question of why people allowed it to happen,” Luyt told internet radio station Ballz radio.
“The brand was fantastic and in 1996 when we signed the Murdoch agreement (which funded Super rugby and the Tri-Nations), according to the people I dealt with the finest union in the world was the Transvaal Rugby Union, which is now the GLRU.
“With all due respect, how can you let a fantastic union like the Lions go down the drain like they did? I can only assume that people who were in charge didn’t know what they were doing and what rugby was about.
“The money was there. But somehow or other the decision was made to use the money for junior rugby and other poor business decisions.
“There was no plan, no bloody plan. What the hell did they do all that time?
“Where is the money? How the hell can you lose that much money? It’s there to be invested and earn more money. You lose it only if you’re stupid enough to lose it,” he said.
The former Sarfu boss was fearful for the union’s prospects: “I’ll tell you one thing, if the GLRU owes more money than it can pay, it will have to go into liquidation.
“It’s painful for me to contemplate that it could be sequestrated and closed down because it was the finest and strongest union in the world not so long ago.”
Luyt said there was some hope: “This crisis can be solved but it will require clear heads and no egos. I would find good investors and they could rebuild the Lions to its former glory. No one’s asked me to help and I don’t know if I could, but there are people out there who can help.”
Adding insult to their Super rugby ejection injury, the Lions were told by an independent arbitrator that they have to cough up R2.565-million in unpaid franchise fees to the Leopards, with the possibility of another R6.6-million due to be paid to the Mpumalanga Pumas and the Leopards.
Luyt took a dim view of the crisis: “I don’t know how they are going to pay that money because they don’t have it.”
27 Aug 2012, 16:38 pm
@katman-514
Well he can pick his nose if he must but he can smear it over the front of his own shirt, not mine.
27 Aug 2012, 16:38 pm
@poppa69-515: I think the list of things that you do indeed own is embarrassingly short. Why don’t you start with a place to stay and clean underwear and we’ll take it from there.
27 Aug 2012, 16:39 pm
@RL-517: oh really? potgieter is never injured huh?
27 Aug 2012, 16:39 pm
@Monty15-518: someone thinks too much of themselves methinks… I made a joke about chemistry in a conversation with someone else and you took offense? seriously, get a fcken grip…
27 Aug 2012, 16:39 pm
@Transformation-516: The question one should ask is this???
If he chose Goosen, would he allow him to play like he does for the Cheetahs?? or because he has a bigger boot than Steyn would he convert him into a bigger MOrne Steyn clone??? higher up and unders???
27 Aug 2012, 16:40 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-510: yes, and every time it was either because pat was injured or coming back from injury.
27 Aug 2012, 16:40 pm
@katman-514: the worst and weird thing is… he is aaaalllways here. day morning or night. What else can he find time for? and 90% of his posts are shallow insults or more rhetoric about SA. Addicted to a blog – attention seeking individual (troll) – probably with agoraphobia to boot.
27 Aug 2012, 16:40 pm
@rangerman-511: HM will fast track Goosen into he Bok squad and play him at FH above Lambie. Lambie would have to settle for an impact role.
27 Aug 2012, 16:40 pm
@rangerman-506: ‘The kid”
27 Aug 2012, 16:41 pm
@Big Hit-480:
He is selfish. Always wants the glory to be his. Look at how many times he will cut back inside when close to the goal line only to be tackled even though the players on his outside have a much better chance to score the try.
Rugby is a team sport.
I’m not blinded by his long drops/penalties/clearances like some other people.
@rangerman-486:
If you can’t see that that is exactly my point, than I’m sorry.
Morne won’t get the kind of ball that he got against Namibia. Fransie will have to show his magic with the ball that he gets. Can’t now blame Morne if he does not perform.
Still fishing.
PS: Ricky January chipped and chase after making a break. Regathered the ball and dived over to give SA their first victory in NZ in 10 years.
Some people said he was lucky that the ball bounced just right for him.
@rangerman-497:
You like that, don’t you?
Making assumptions and think it is the truth.
Ever thought that maybe I just don’t rate him as high as you okes do.
I wonder what “more deserving player” you think I think Potgieter is keeping out…or Flip…
27 Aug 2012, 16:41 pm
@katman-522: hahaha gees. dont try too hard bro…
27 Aug 2012, 16:42 pm
@Transformation-523: he gets hurt, nine of of ten times that Neanderthal hurts himself
27 Aug 2012, 16:44 pm
@XhosaKid-493: Me neither. HM seems nervous about playing rugby away from home. Must be a Blue Bulls trait. The Aussie walkie talkie’s better be fully charged at Perth.
27 Aug 2012, 16:44 pm
@shooter-527: and yet so many of you feel compelled to respond…
27 Aug 2012, 16:46 pm
@poppa69-524
Interesting the way you dance around with your replies rather than answer a direct question. But that’s okay, it tells me a lot. I have a job to go to today and it’s getting on for 3am so I’m out. Spot ya, pilgrim.
27 Aug 2012, 16:48 pm
If we analyse the flyahlfs in this country it doesnt really matter who is the pecking order. It depends on the game plan you are going to play and then select the best man for the job. If HM persists with the current game plan it clear that he will go with a Derick Hougaard/ Morne Steyn type flyhalf.
If HM goes with Goosen or Lambie i believe we may move in the right direction as i would imagine the game plan involve some variety.
Elton Jantjies seems to be improving but i dont believe he is ready for top flight yet, maybe in a year or 2.
Grant kicking out of hand is sub standard and i dont believe will get a look in.
27 Aug 2012, 16:48 pm
@sharks_lover-525: same applies to the lambster who is just not versatile enough to play Meyers game. Goosen can play any style you ask him to player.
27 Aug 2012, 16:50 pm
@Monty15-535: the boxer boyfriend? you felt compelled to tell me that you have a boxer mate? why? because I made a joke about the advances of chemistry in a totally unrelated conversation that you werent even a part of..
27 Aug 2012, 16:50 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-505:
het jy vir fouche dop gehou in die bulls-sharks wedstryd oor die naweek? eerlik waar belowe ek hier en nou vir jou hierdie outjie is uit en uit n losskakel en verder het hy springbok losskakel al oor hom gepluister.
se jy nou vir my hoeveel wedstryde het patrick gespeel voordat hy n bok trui oor sy kop getrek het..?.. selde vir bryan…?..
dis meer as net potensiaal wat hy het en in my opinie bied hy n bietjie meer as goosen aan. hy skop min of meer net so ver en is defintief meer fisies.
maar die teleurstelling omtrent hierdie die saak is dat hy nie as losskakel gekies sal word omdat mense presies soos jy nou doen, heeltemal bevok sal raak.
en alle soorte kak van bo af dai fokkenn berg sal skreeu oor die saak.
27 Aug 2012, 16:50 pm
@rossoneri-533: geez hey, even kiwis are talking about his near-meltdowns in the coaching boxes…
27 Aug 2012, 16:51 pm
@poppa69-534: you are the compelled one.
You’re the best at all you do – and all you do is pssing people off.
That’s a fact – go check it up. Something to be proud of?
27 Aug 2012, 16:52 pm
@Mustard-536: Meyer doesnt believe the flyhalf is your general, hence his persistence with Hougard at 9..
27 Aug 2012, 16:52 pm
85 million rand in the year 2000.Now that was a ‘moerse klomp geld’!Seriously,what the fck happened to all of that money??
27 Aug 2012, 16:52 pm
Keo that’s your best article yet! It was so damning, it made Nick Mallett look skittish.
27 Aug 2012, 16:54 pm
@rangerman-506:
So that’s two.
One in 2006 and another in 2009. In more than 50 tests that’s what he did?
Oh my goodness. Let’s honour him for that by selecting him forever even if he plays kak for the rest of his career.
27 Aug 2012, 16:54 pm
@Transformation-540: Who’s he shouting at?
27 Aug 2012, 16:54 pm
@rangerman-497:
I wonder indeed.
27 Aug 2012, 16:55 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-539: im not convinced with fouche, has potential but first has to prove himself away from home and the melktert in the super 15 consistently before he should be even mentioned as a potential bok
27 Aug 2012, 16:56 pm
@shooter-541: sorry chop, you have me confused with someone else…Ive never professed to be the best at all I do…far from it..
poeple like Katman think they are the greatest, its evident in every post he makes to me..
and hey, the fact I throw rubbish at you guys is a direct response to the many rubbish things said on this very site about kiwis, so if you dont like it I dont care..
is the big bad saffa upset that the kiwi is dishing up the saffas own medicine? how very sad..
27 Aug 2012, 16:56 pm
@Transformation-540: its hilarious
stressed eric
27 Aug 2012, 16:56 pm
@Transformation-498: Freddie was the business, pity he cant be a bok
27 Aug 2012, 16:56 pm
@Transformation-540: I saw that too. Was it TJ that mentioned it.
Meyer certainly looks like he is freaking out. But that could just be his way. 
I am so excited to watch that game in Perth, I wish it was Monday 3 September 2012 already. Both Meyer and Deans need a big performance. The Aussies more so. They still have zero points.
27 Aug 2012, 16:56 pm
@mpundulu-544: some doff broederbond prick ‘invested’ it and lost everything.
27 Aug 2012, 16:57 pm
@rossoneri-533:
http://www.rugbyjourney.com/2012/06/heyneke-meyer-has-this-become-all-too-personal-the-springboks/
@wnbb-543: go check jannie ferreira or manie reyneke’s bank accounts. they make the fools at EP in the early 2000s look like amateurs
27 Aug 2012, 16:57 pm
@rangerman-509:
no ranger, i honestly think he should get a look in.
i think he will be a bok soon.
follow his progress at cc for yourself.
27 Aug 2012, 16:58 pm
@RL-537: Not true,
27 Aug 2012, 16:58 pm
Frans Steyn the best No.12 in SA since Michael du Plessis.Also a big guy.
Must say I didnt see any fat on Frans.Duanne though needs to shed a lot
of weight.Agree that he will then be a big asset to Boks.
NAMA.Who would you replace Frans with at NO.12.?
Surely not Jean.
27 Aug 2012, 16:58 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-539: Nee, ek sal glad nie befok raak nie. Dit sal net vir my op die stadium ‘n baie snaakse besluit wees, dit is al.
Ek het baie van die kind gehou verlede jaar al – die Bulls agterlyn lyk sommer stukke beter met ‘n loskakel soos hy. Ek stem met al jou punte rakende sy sterk punte, hy is beslis ‘n groot talent. Die punt wat ek maak, is dat so outjie (wat so baie potensiaal het) liewer eers ‘n hele season Currie beker, en Super rugby moet speel (of ten minst, bietie meer as wat die outjie die jaar gespeel het sover) voordat hulle in Bok spanne gedruk word.
Ek glo as mens goed genoeg is, moet jy onmiddelik die step up kan maak, maar in die outjie se geval (net soos in Lambie’s s’n) sal ek dit verkies dat hulle eers speeltyd (en baie daarvan) by hul unies kry in die 10 trui, voor hulle dit in groen en goud ene doen.
Goosen is voor Lambie en die outjie glo ek, want Meyer het dit self erken. As Goosen wedstryd fiks is, dink ek nie Lambie gaan die match 22 maak, nie omdat EK dit so wil he, maar omdat dit duidelik is Meyer ‘rate’ nie vir Lambie.
Hy het dit baie duidelik gemaak.
27 Aug 2012, 17:04 pm
@poppa69-542: Neither is Hougaard. He is far from a finished article, and cannot be considered the “playmaker” in the team. How would we define playmaker? Someone who decides when to run, pass, dictates play etc I see no play maker in the Bok setup. In the past it was clear that FdP was that man. But not Hougaard. Its a clearly defined off field plan, to bash it up with the forwards then hoof it into the air and pounce on the stumble. No variety. Goosen is given freedom in the Cheetahs team to be the general/playmaker if you like. He makes the decisions on the field based on whats happening. And i remember him doing that very well away against the Hurricanes in the Super 15 when his decision making was spot on. Im very excited about him as a prospect if he gets selected. My change the way we play…..perhaps.
27 Aug 2012, 17:04 pm
@Transformation-516:
yes but goosen has injury issues.
@Mustard-548:
thats the beauty of an armchair opinion, everybody can afford one.
if we were the coach it would be a different story.
27 Aug 2012, 17:04 pm
@Mustard-536:
Serious question and I’m not asking this from a colour perspective. Just from a rugby perspective:
Jantjies has been playing first class rugby now for three years. He was SA young player of the year in 2010. A member of the Bok squad.
Lambie has been playing first class rugby for three years now. He is already a Bok and has RWC experience as well as a CC behind his name.
Goosen is in his second year of first class rugby. A prodigious talent, no doubt.
Why does Jantjie need another two/three years to be ready for “top flight rugby.”
27 Aug 2012, 17:04 pm
@Transformation-554: that article was painful to read
27 Aug 2012, 17:04 pm
@rossoneri-533: lol
27 Aug 2012, 17:05 pm
@Transformation-554: Reyneke got a massive golden handshake from allers for the good work he did in sinking the guma deal – they wanted in badly and now they are out.
27 Aug 2012, 17:08 pm
What is the drama all about?
So the boks got ambushed in Mendoza? So what? They are still unbeaten. Mark my words if the Argies show up like they did this last Saturday against ANY team, the other team will have problems, including the ‘unbeatable’ All Black messiahs of all things Rugby.
There are only two teams that would have been able to get out of the scenario we saw on Saturday. The All Blacks and the Boks. The Aussies would have been tickets and must now be shitting themselves for the Argies!!
I am so proud of our Boks. To come back against that kind of onslaught and pull it out of the bag (albeit luckily though) was AWESOME!! So proud of the boys!!
We must all pull our heads out of our arses. Rugby is not all champagne and caviar. Ask the All Blacks in the second test against the Irish this year!!! If we played the Argies next week it would be 60 points to Nil to the bokke. Of this I have NO DOUBT!
Heyneke – take it easy buddy. You know what you are doing. Don’t panic and PLEASE do not listen to the idiots in the press or the ‘couch coach brigade’ (including Mallet!!).
Rome was not built in a day, month or year. But one thing is for sure, no one else in SA Rugby has the ability to build Springbok rugby into the ‘Rome’ it will be.
27 Aug 2012, 17:09 pm
@sharks_lover-556: no it is true – Goosen is the now and the future. Heineken cannot afford to ignore the best 10 on the planet.
27 Aug 2012, 17:09 pm
@mpundulu-546: he shouts at pieter de villiers and johan van graan, they’re the two plonkers i saw at newlands talking on walkie talkies on the bok bench!
27 Aug 2012, 17:12 pm
@The Analyst-565: well at least nobody can say that you don’t have a unique take on things
27 Aug 2012, 17:12 pm
@nama1-561: Jantjies has been erratic in the super 15 away from home. Especially on defense. I believe if he can bulk a bit, without losing too much pace it will do him a world of good and thats why i said a year or 2. In fact i have been more impressed with him at FH than what i have seen from Lambie. Lambie seems to be getting a look in right and he should take this opportunity. From all the young FH i have seen i have been most impressed with Goosen. He has so much to offer from a running or a kicking game that i feel i would select him above those two.
27 Aug 2012, 17:13 pm
@Mustard-559:
It is in any case just stupid to expect from somebody who looks down the ground for 80% of the time, your SH, to be the decision maker when you have somebody outside him who has a much wider view of what is going on in front of him.
27 Aug 2012, 17:15 pm
lol. nama1 saying he is asking a question which is not “from a colour perspective”. yeah right! colour trap if i ever saw one. it’s always about colour for our nama1.
27 Aug 2012, 17:16 pm
Mustard
I think golden is an exciting talent, and stated the other day that it may be detrimental to throw him in the deep end straight away. I would be introducing him on the Eoyt at the earliest. I would also like to see Jantjies with a forward pack that can provide him with a decent platform to operate from.
27 Aug 2012, 17:17 pm
golden = goosen.
27 Aug 2012, 17:19 pm
I am starting to understand why other countries’ supporters insist that Bok supporter are as dumb as two brick held together by chewing gum.
I am not going to go into player retirements, player injuries or even lethargy (which I do believe is a serious problem).
We all romanticize about the “Mallett Years”. The problem is that Mallet did absolutely nothing for South African rugby. All he did was to cash in on the Carel Du Plessis hard graft.
Du Plessis changed the way that the Boks played. Before that there was no structure, style or substance to the way that the Boks played. Du Plessis’ Boks lost game after game but in the process became one team.
There isn’t a person alive who would say that Pieter De Villiers added anything to Springbok Rugby. At least he was smart enough to stay out of the way. The problem is that the brains of whatever we have achieved in the past few years are all gone.
Meyer is building something that will take a little time but will be something that has substance and will be a basis for great rugby.
Apart from the omission of Brussouw, he has picked the best young players available to him. He has stated that he plans to upgrade their skills (something that all South African players are lacking) rather than tell them to “go away and get better”.
The Boks will beat Australia twice and lose to the All Blacks twice (we don’t have a snowball’s chance of taking them down this year).
Next year we will be in contention to trouble the All Blacks but from 2014 we will donner them on a regular basis.
I choose to be patient and allow Meyer to rebuild the broken Bok dynasty. I would rather put up with the growing pains and later enjoy supporting a true Springbok team.
The problem with the South African supporter (including most journos) is their infantile “I want it now” mentality. Anyone who has ever parented, mentored or taught will know that today’s disciplined is tomorrow’s performer.
27 Aug 2012, 17:21 pm
@Mustard-569: look Jantjies is the same height and weight as the Lambster – they are both good superrugby players, not quite test quality. Goosen is the total package, he needs to bulk up a bit and work on his D. He will become a legend.
27 Aug 2012, 17:22 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-558:
ag nou maar ja, kom ons stem saam om nie saam te stem nie
ek voel hy is gereed om vir die bokke te speel maar dink dieselfe oor goosen. hulle is al twee goie losskakels en vir my beter as patrick, wie meyer (soos jy self se) nie hoog gradeer nie.
27 Aug 2012, 17:22 pm
@nama1-561:
he should be playing off the bench for the boks already in my opinion.
@The Analyst-565: exactly. I want to see how the other sides go in mendoza before calling this a kak result. That is if the sides do indeed play in mendoza and their width shortened pitch. And the commute from nz and aus will no doubt be shweet. Which direction will the antipodeans be flying? via europe or via hawaii and the usa? Either way….shweet.
27 Aug 2012, 17:24 pm
@The Analyst-565: That comment is lamentable.
27 Aug 2012, 17:24 pm
F uck off Kirtchner.
27 Aug 2012, 17:27 pm
@The Analyst-565:
“To come back against that kind of onslaught and pull it out of the bag (albeit luckily though) was AWESOME!!”
How dare you say it was lucky? It was all down to the awesome skills shown by Fransie.
“He had to BE IN POSITION to make the charge down, he had to STAY CALM and regather and he also had to outdistance the argies chasing him.”
So please, it was not through luck that the Boks pulled it off. Fransie did it for us.
27 Aug 2012, 17:27 pm
@YoMama-574: What precisely is Meyer building? What’s his game plan? Meyerlings believe that he has this rugby secret that no one have ever heard of or thought of, what’s this miracle that Meyer will present us with?
27 Aug 2012, 17:29 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-577: actually there are direct flights between NZ and Argentina, which take 12 hours. Otherwise, it’s a 1 stop route via Chile to Buenos Aires which is 15 hour total flight and connection time. Not that bad, actually.
27 Aug 2012, 17:29 pm
@mpundulu-581: \
so long as it is not another cape flat Hex from Twakkie DeVilliers I’m all for it.
27 Aug 2012, 17:30 pm
From News24:
There’s also the possiblility that fit-again loosie Duane Vermeulen – who had a good 65 minutes against the Golden Lions in Johannesburg on Saturday – may be called up to the Springbok setup, which makes Elstadt’s return all the more welcome for the Cape side.
27 Aug 2012, 17:31 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-583: You mean no Coloureds allowed?! That’s nice….
27 Aug 2012, 17:31 pm
@Humphrey-582:
interesting…..across the pacific and date line.
back to the future. Lets see how that works out.
27 Aug 2012, 17:32 pm
@Humphrey-582: we’ve always heard these bizarre theories about jetlag being worse flying east so the ABs will be tested flying to Argentina then to RSA. Or maybe it won’t make a difference and the myth will be shown up for what it is.
27 Aug 2012, 17:33 pm
@husky-107: “They are trained cheats. But most of us know this.”
“ABs (Crusaders) are cheats” and “refs are cheats” should finally incorporated in SA national anthem, I suppose.
27 Aug 2012, 17:33 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-583: People like you, are the type who make any Heyneke Meyer failure schweeter than sugar.
If you can not be objective in any way, shape or form; you should start preparing yourself for the painnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.
You and Taccy will be like the kiddies who are expecting new bikes from Santa, yet wake up on Xmas morning to find a facecloth and onnerbroekies.
27 Aug 2012, 17:33 pm
@mpundulu-585:
actually, no tik induced post match pressers. but whatever you prefer bru….
27 Aug 2012, 17:33 pm
I was more dissapointed in the Bok performance in the first RC test TBH despite the scoreline. The quality of that Cape Town match was pisspoor and the Boks were even worse at the breakdown, less accurate and kicked even more. Also fckn Kirtchner scored a try guaranteeing himself another 20 Bok caps.
27 Aug 2012, 17:34 pm
@nama1-580: Nooiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit?
27 Aug 2012, 17:34 pm
@gonzo-587: do you fly long haul often? I have in the past and I can say its much harder flying west to east than east to west, in my opinion. the former takes a while to get normal sleeping patterns back, whilst the latter is a cinch.
27 Aug 2012, 17:37 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-590: Ahhhhhh, you are one of those, I’m certain you are lashing the klippies massively, tell the wife to maintain a wide berth.
27 Aug 2012, 17:37 pm
Alberts is a great rugby player. He must play lock. Etzebeth at 5. This is the long term solution. Bekker as an impact sub. Its a no brainer. The other cart horse can live out his days in the Currie Cup.
27 Aug 2012, 17:38 pm
@Humphrey-593: Very true Humphrey.
27 Aug 2012, 17:38 pm
It’s mostly about process.
Here’s one thing – While they were mostly shovelling the ball down the line, I saw a lot more intent to keep the ball in play, maintaining phases through the hands. We weren’t very effective at it or ran good angles doing it, but it was good to see them trying.
I just think that developing the interplay and analyzing ways of being more effective, over time will reap benefits.
I repeat, we did not do it well, but we did start to do something.
When you watch the ABs, most everything they try works. The reason for that is that they have for many years been MAKING THE GAME HAPPEN. Everyone knows what to expect or how to play.
Under De Villiers and even White, South Africa did not play. They simply slipped through the cracks of whatever the other team did wrong.
I would rather see the Boks develop something, than fall back on tried and tested means of grinding out wins. We could have played that way and won, 23-12. We would all have been happy campers this week but deep inside we would know that the Boks are only doing what needs to be done, and will AGAIN come horribly short against the stronger teams.
Personally, I am happy to draw this game while developing a style that will some day make us the bludgeoners in chief.
27 Aug 2012, 17:39 pm
Yawn, It starts again,
People HM is a quality coach picking up the pieces after 4 years of misdirection. Did anybody seriously expect him to get results immediately after the exodus of the backbone of the Bok team? If you did you are morons. This is a Bok side that lost to Saracens a short while back.
Give the guy a chance to assess the talent available and then formulate a plan. Judge him at the end of year 2. Criticism now will only lead to pressured decisions to please the masses that will lead to a repeat of the cycle we have seen since Kitch Christie’s reign.
27 Aug 2012, 17:39 pm
@YoMama-574: so you are advocating a twee jaar plan?
well i’m glad meyer himself does not believe pies in the sky and “wants to WIN every game”!
27 Aug 2012, 17:40 pm
@RL-566: Lets agree to dissagree then because lambie is far better than he is being given credit for, Remember besides him having being injured a bit this year he has been playing FB and not FH which is his preferred position.
Anyhows I am not anti Goosen as i also believe he is capable of becomming a great
27 Aug 2012, 17:40 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-590: So you prefer the tik induced coaching box Macarena that Meyer has perfected in 5 shoty games?
Honestly dude, your prejudice owns you. Just remember: Onnerbroekies for Xmas…
27 Aug 2012, 17:40 pm
It fascinates me how some people claim that Mallet rode on the coat tails of what Carel had built ?
Between August 1997 and December 1998, under Mallett’s guidance, the Springboks went on a record winning streak of 17 consecutive test wins. As part of the unbeaten run the Springboks won the Tri Nations Series undefeated and beat several teams by record margins, including a 52–10 against France in Paris, a 68–10 win over Scotland in Edinburgh, a 33–0 defeat of Ireland and a 96–13 against Wales. The run ended when the Springbok team was defeated by England at Twickenham at the end of a long tour on the 5 December 1998.
In rugby a week is long , (ask Meyer) how does this continued run of success of Mallets equate to what Carel had accomplished ? Mallet is and always will be his own man, perhaps too much so. The people not wanting to give Mallet credit for what he achieved are simply in denial, he walked his talk .
27 Aug 2012, 17:45 pm
listen to the insight of Mallett in this interview. amazing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdeWgPygL5g
27 Aug 2012, 17:45 pm
I’d give HM a chance to learn some valuable lessons. But he must pick TALENTED individuals. Players who are technically brilliant, four dimensional gladiators. Brain dead brawn will be the death of the Bokke. Keegan Daniel is the best rugby player in the squad at the moment, and this is based on the absurd omission of Heinrich Brussouw – the genius.
27 Aug 2012, 17:49 pm
@Nils-588:
No Nils, The All Blacks are not cheats. They do whatever it takes to win, even if that are allowed to do things that other teams are not.
If they were really cheats then by now they would have been in trouble.
The problem lies with the aura that New Zealand rugby holds. There is an underlying reticance to crack down on Kiwi illegalities when they are committed, simply because there is surely no way that New Zealanders do anything wrong.
Consider the Irish referees of Kiwi games two years ago. It was clear to everyone that the All Blacks received huge prefential treatment of the referees. Numbnuts De Villiers was crying conspiracy. There was no conspiracy, it was just this culture within rugby that everything Kiwi is right and beyond question.
If the IRB had any balls, they would deal with this issue head on enforce equal treatment of New Zealands rugby.
I don’t think that it would weaken New Zealand rugby at all. It would just create an environment where everyone knows that we are playing on a level field.
27 Aug 2012, 17:51 pm
Morne Steyn is not a talented rugby player.
27 Aug 2012, 17:52 pm
@DEE DAH-598: meyer is a rookie in international coaching, he is no better than dave rennie, ewen mckenzie, stuart lancaster
27 Aug 2012, 17:52 pm
@Transformation-599:
He does want to win every game. That is why is always looks frustrated. What he wants and what he has are two different things. As opposed to the past, we aren’t dealing with “building for the World Cup” garbage. Instead, he is building for world domination.
Rome wasn’t built in a day.
27 Aug 2012, 17:54 pm
@Humphrey-593:
i agree, flew 2 sydney for the olympics in 2000, was buggered for a week.
@mpundulu-594:
well, if it makes you happy to thinks so, still, its a way better option than joining a sangoma at a toi-toi rally at a mine shaft and wacking police officers. In my humble opinion anyway, probably not in yours.
27 Aug 2012, 18:01 pm
@YoMama-608:
World domination does not start with Potgieter, M Steyn and Kirchner. Period.
27 Aug 2012, 18:05 pm
@Jinx2-610:
Or Aplon, Neon Deon and Grant.
27 Aug 2012, 18:06 pm
@Jinx2-610: truth
27 Aug 2012, 18:08 pm
@victoriabok-611:
Aplon would be an ideal impact sub in ANY team. Taute, Pienaar, Jantjies = massive talent.
27 Aug 2012, 18:10 pm
@YoMama-608: also rome wasn’t built on kak selections, read jinx2′s comment!
27 Aug 2012, 18:11 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-609:
> i agree, flew 2 sydney for the olympics in 2000, was buggered for a week.
The rule of thumb with jet lag is you’ll need a day for each hour of time difference to recover
27 Aug 2012, 18:11 pm
Come on korporaaltjie,you are better than this.I know that you are passionate about Meyer and the Bulls but I never figured you as a racialist making sweeping statements to shock.I know that we have been laying into Meyer a bit,but that’s no reason for you to lose your cool.Just saying.
27 Aug 2012, 18:12 pm
@Jinx2-613:
WP plays the same type of rugby as the Boks, and Aplon imo has been useless in last two games.
It is not just about individuals, talented as they may be, it is how they are used (if at all).
27 Aug 2012, 18:13 pm
@Transformation-614:
Cheers. Goosen is the next uber generall at fly half. But a Piennar/Lambie axis would provide creativity and strength at this time in the Championship.
27 Aug 2012, 18:14 pm
@PissAnt-617:
WP plays k@k rugby.
27 Aug 2012, 18:17 pm
@Jinx2-610:
True.
Awaiting Burger, Brussouw, Goosen, Jantjes, Lambie, Bismarck, Pieterson, Taute and many more to be available.
27 Aug 2012, 18:20 pm
@YoMama-620:
Agreed. People hate Burger, but he is creative in the way he destroys the opposition’s mental model.
27 Aug 2012, 18:20 pm
@Jinx2-613:
Hougaard would be better on the wing than Aplon, he’s stronger too and gets over the advantage line as well
27 Aug 2012, 18:21 pm
607
Simply refer to the 4th sentence of my 1st post.
27 Aug 2012, 18:22 pm
@victoriabok-622:
Yes, Hougaard in my starting 15. On the wing. Habana at 13.
27 Aug 2012, 18:23 pm
@victoriabok-622:
Hougaard, Habana and Pieterson are incredible footballers. They HAVE to start.
27 Aug 2012, 18:27 pm
@Jinx2-618:
This is what we all say before we crucify him for making some mistake along the way. And he will.
We have all elevated Francois Steyn, Ruan Pienaar and Francois Hougaard to God like status in the infancy of their careers.
The problem is that we leave them at their potential stage.
Yes, we are blessed to have these guys. That is what makes South African Rugby one of the best. But they will never become great players if we fail to continue developing them.
Right now this is what sets the All Blacks apart. They also have naturally gifted players but they focus on continuing developing them and the players around them.
27 Aug 2012, 18:27 pm
Im not too concerned about Potgieter. Burger, Vemeulen, Kanko, Smith (if he ever comes back) is all above him in the pecking order.
Morne steyn too is biding his time, until Goosen is ready.
Kirchener is a bit of a problem. We do not have much options at 15. Meyer clearly doesn’t rate Appels due to his size so the only other person i can see there is Taute.
But i still maintain, we lack innovation in our game plan. Im not saying saying we should start throwing it around and hope for the best, not at all. Springbok rugby has always been successful playing a forward orientated game plan. What im saying is that within that ‘structure’ we should allow players to express themselves. We have some very talented backs but they simply cannot do anything when their sole purpose is to tackle and chase up and unders. Our back line needs to start playing some rugby and we will see a different bok side. Unpredictability is what sets the AB apart from the rest and clinical execution. We should stop playing not to lose and start playing to win.
27 Aug 2012, 18:29 pm
@Jinx2-621:
..and if you watch him closely, when allowed to play his own game, he has a lot more to offer than domkrag voorspoed. With that being said, we also don’t get dominated at the breakdown when he (and Brussouw) are playing.
27 Aug 2012, 18:31 pm
@Jinx2-621: Schalk Burger will be a phenomenal 8 imo. He has the grunt to compete and the skills to link with the back line. I wish he can have a full season at 8 he will great there. Similar to a kind of role Kieren Ried does with the Crusaders and AB
27 Aug 2012, 18:31 pm
@Mustard-627:
I wish Mark Keohane and his lemmings were of the same thought as you and I.
27 Aug 2012, 18:31 pm
@YoMama-628:
Are we talking about Schalk?
27 Aug 2012, 18:32 pm
Yip
27 Aug 2012, 18:34 pm
Ja. He is a born leader. A man like that in Dunedin, and five or six of the youngsters will play their best game. BMT.
27 Aug 2012, 18:34 pm
@victoriabok-622: Aplon best position is Fullback not wing. When you have brilliant defenders like JPP and Habana (not when his shooting out of course) on the wings, you can get away with a smaller FB. And in open space there is no better counter attacker than Aplon.
27 Aug 2012, 18:34 pm
@touch.pause.engage-602: Nick Mallet did have a good tenure as coach, but as his time as Springbok coach grew longer and longer his provincial bias could no longer be hidden and in typical fashion when something can no longer be hidden, the explanations also dried up. Heyneke Meyer must be very careful not to go down the same road.
Mallet would have won that 18th test if he wasn’t so stubborn and proud so as to refuse to acknowledge criticism he had received in the public and media and to replace an out of sorts Percy Montgommery with an in-form Andre Joubert. Instead because of pride and stubbornness, I think Joubert came on with a few minutes left – too late.
His other mistake to follow up on that one was to drop Teichman before the 1999 world cup for a questionable form Bob Skinstad. Although it cannot be proven, I am almost 100% certain that cost South Africa the world cup. Mallet himself has admitted to this mistake.
Unfortunately, it was a big one because he also alienated the Natal players (who apparently threatened to walk out on him a week or two before the world cup was due to kick off) hence the reason he hardheadedly insisted on playing Jannie De Beer ahead of Henry Honiball. It kind of worked out – lucky for him. Wasn’t great for team morale though.
So all in all I would say this about Mallet. The guy knows his rugby, but in my opinion has a lot of issues relating to his subjectivity on player selection and his inability to listen to and internalize criticism. Unfortunately due to this, I pray he never coaches the Springboks again.
Mallet had a heavy bias toward WP. If the Stormers were reaching finals and semi-finals of super rugby on a regular basis I would have understood, but the Stormers were abysmally poor at that time. In 1997, WP did not even qualify to play Super rugby yet when Mallet started to unravel, the majority of his Bok team came from the Stormers.
27 Aug 2012, 18:35 pm
I also believe the great platers show their enjoyment on the field. You can see their passion is tied to the pleasure of playing and making their own decisions.
27 Aug 2012, 18:36 pm
players (sp)
27 Aug 2012, 18:36 pm
Some of these moegoes look like they are at a funeral for 80 minutes.
27 Aug 2012, 18:38 pm
Guys, guys guys ….
NO ONE would have handled the onslaught better on Saturday. OK – maybe a bit better, but not much more.
Face it guys. Sometimes with ALL the rugby that is played one team rocks up and plays 150% out of their skins. For the weak team it is usually a massively physical effort which takes the stronger team by surprise. It is usually a mental thing as well.
It has happened across the board – hell the ABs got it from the Irish. A week later O’Driscoll was a broken man as the ABs got the riot act from the coach and supporters and put 60 points past the Irish. This was AT HOME to the All Blacks.
I do not understand all this emotional hysteria???
The Boks are UNBEATEN this year FFS!!
27 Aug 2012, 18:39 pm
We should aim for smarter and not harder.
It sounds like a cliche but the game at the highest level has become very technical; you need to understand the various aspects and then work out a way to frustrate the opponent and how you can push the boundaries/ take initiative
By merely hitting the tackle bags harder we will not advance
The forwards are coached to sometimes be the 1st receiver and I must say it is so diabolically boring. Players 8-9-10-12 must constantly be talking and constructing plans as the game unfolds. We have not made the transition and it seems that we are still waiting for the opposition to initiate so we can try and do something.
How do you get these coaches born again?
27 Aug 2012, 18:41 pm
@The Analyst-639:
Fair go. We stood up at the end. But some pedestrian selections were evident. Keegan Daniel made the difference. Leadership and brains.
27 Aug 2012, 18:42 pm
Meyer will survive. He will reinvent the gameplan. No concerns.
Biggest issue IMHO is 100% predictability from 9-10-12-15
Hougaard to 11
Habana to 15
Pienaar to 09
Lambie to 10
Steyn to 12
De V to 13
27 Aug 2012, 18:42 pm
@Jinx2-638: Yep – I commented to a mate of mine as well that they look like they all enjoyed the nightlife a bit too much the night before the game. Maybe some of those hot South American ladies kept them awake on purpose the whole night.
Really – the game looked very slow. Argentina were very effective at slowing it down when they wanted to. We played the whole game at the pace of Argentina’s choosing.
Its a bit embarrassing really. This Pumas team has been given an opportunity and they have grabbed it with both hands. The Boks took years before we looked like valid opposition in the Tri-Nations. Pumas – two games in, already looking like they are in it to play. Embarrassing….
Axe half the team. If they dont want a Bok contract – then send them on their way. That’s what I say. Some guys are a waste of space and only getting selected on name weight. Bryan Habana is one, Jannie Du Plessis is the other.
27 Aug 2012, 18:42 pm
De Villiers looks like I could outrun him. Stampkarkak
27 Aug 2012, 18:42 pm
@Sheriff-640:
Ask the Cheetahs. They have the coaching model that fits your theory. All they need is 5 Bokke
A great rugby philosophy to be copied.
27 Aug 2012, 18:43 pm
@Jinx2-633:
One of the Boks’ problems is a loack of leadership in the pack, a year ago you had John Smith, Victor and Schalk, all captains providing stability under pressure
27 Aug 2012, 18:44 pm
@The Analyst-639: It was a pathetically poor display by the Springboks. I think that is what everyone’s issue is. These were the games we needed to get 10 points from. Instead, we have 6.
27 Aug 2012, 18:45 pm
@The Analyst-639:
Also, understand that for Meyer to walk in and change things overnight is IMPOSSIBLE. It will take him 4 years at least with structures being put in place all the way to the bottom of the rugby ecosystem in SA, including coaching and management structures and continuity.
It SHOULD NOT be Meyer in isolation. It should be the rugby structures in SA as a whole that needs to be scrutinzed.
Until we do this and give the coach THE BEST framework and resources to work with, they will always be scrambling to give the rugby public the results they want. In NZ, Carter and McCaw are managed for the good of the All Blacks, NOT their Franchises.
Meyer is the best we have in SA. Give him his chance.
27 Aug 2012, 18:45 pm
@victoriabok-646:
Bring in Juandre. Bekker is verby.
27 Aug 2012, 18:47 pm
@Dusky-635:
Good summary.
It seems the biggest issue with SA coaches is maturity of lack thereof. I agree with you, Mallet had his chance and should not be coaching SA again.
My thoughts about him is that he needs ‘anger management’ ; when things are not going his way he gets nasty with his players. He is arguably SA’s most self-assured guy and in a country where self-doubt is rife, he gets the thumbs-up from me in that dept.
I see some parallels between him and John Mitchell.
27 Aug 2012, 18:48 pm
@The Analyst-648:
I agree. HM is the best. But he can’t have 4 years. Sorry. That sounds like the ANC buying time. We are four weeks away from world domination. He just needs to get the neanderthals out and the true Bokke in.
27 Aug 2012, 18:48 pm
@Dusky-647:
Mate – of course it was. They were outplayed at forward. How can you play when you are getting drilled up front?
How can you have Plan B if you cannot execute Plan A because the forwards are getting blasted???
NO TEAM can play when there forwards are getting creamed – even if you have Plan A, B, C, D. Not even the mighty All Blacks can e.g. like the Irish did to them in 2nd June Test.
Come on all. Get some perspective.
27 Aug 2012, 18:49 pm
There hasnt been enough indignation over Johan Van Graan our forwards AND backs coach. I read that this no-name brand is apparently the son of the Blue Bulls CEO. How lovely.
27 Aug 2012, 18:50 pm
@Spiesisworthless1-653:
It is a disgrace.
27 Aug 2012, 18:53 pm
@The Analyst-639:
I’ve been saying that for a while. He is 5 matches into his coaching time with the Boks. His win ratio might look low at 60%. But people forget that his loss ratio is a paltry 0% as we speak. That’s it – not one loss last time I checked.
And all of a sudden they want to throw Heyneke under the bus.
Of the remaining 3 matches in this RC, I would expect wins against Australia home and away. And no Bok team should ever take the field at home wearing the underdog status.
The AB’s will be a massive ask in Dunedin. Not too many Bok coaches go to NZ and come back win a win.
I’m prepared to reserve judgement until after the EOYT. That to me seems reasonable.
27 Aug 2012, 18:53 pm
@Spiesisworthless1-653: Isnt ricardo loubsher the backs coach? or am i mistaken….
27 Aug 2012, 18:53 pm
@Jinx2-645:
Fair point Jinxy.
Naka also talks into the walkie talkie but holds it in his left hand and it looks a lot cooler; not sure why but it does. He also seems a lot more composed.
I’m sure if we meet Heyneke in person he is prolly an excellent bloke but he needs to chill. He seems too operational/hands-on and should assume a more strategic role – can he make the switch or does he crave the control too much?
27 Aug 2012, 18:55 pm
@Jinx2-651:
It won’t happen. It is impossible for a coach to do this in such a short time. I am not sure what Jakes time frame was but he was appointed the year before when Straulie got fired.
I think Heyneke has got it right so far and is doing the best he can.
The boks need to perfect the simple way of playing FIRST before they can move to the fancy stuff. FFS it took the Sharks the first half of the S15 season and losses to everyone (including Lions!!!) before they hit their straps!
27 Aug 2012, 18:58 pm
@Mustard-656: He’s also in the mix, yeah. Assistant coach.
27 Aug 2012, 18:58 pm
@Mustard-656:
I think Laubscher is indeed the backline coach
Would it not be amazing if Wayne Smith could coach our backlines for some time?
It just seems that our understanding and philosophy about backline play is 5 years behind say ABs if not more
27 Aug 2012, 18:59 pm
@Sheriff-657:
Ja. Cos Naka has a Klippies and coke in the right hand under the table. My kinda coach!
27 Aug 2012, 18:59 pm
Heyneke Meyer – Head coach
Johan van Graan – Forwards
Ricardo Loubscher – Backs
John McFarland – Defense
Basil Carzis – Conditioning
Ian Schwartz – Team Manager
27 Aug 2012, 19:04 pm
@I am a stormer-655:
I agree.
Wait until HM has ALL his players, structures and ammo available and has tweaked his team, getting to know them and weeding out good and bad players.
To get the best coaching team and management team this takes TIME and PLANNING.
The poor guy got a serious hospital pass – from the P Divvy debacle, the being appointed in FEBRUARY this year ….. and expected to produce the results???
27 Aug 2012, 19:05 pm
@Mustard-662:
Is this a 100% Bulls crew?
27 Aug 2012, 19:05 pm
Next fixtures on the 7 September. No international rugby this weekend. HM will have to endure the media attacks on the Boks display against the Argies for 2 weeks. Until the Aus game when they turn things around.
27 Aug 2012, 19:06 pm
@Sheriff-664: Yes it is.
27 Aug 2012, 19:06 pm
@Jinx2-649:
When Juandre started playing for the Boks I thought he was another “boontjierank” like Bekker, very good in the lineouts but shy of the physical stuff.
He proved me wrong against the Poms and he’s not injury prone like Bekker
27 Aug 2012, 19:07 pm
@The Analyst-663:
I think the concern is the game plan.
In other words, if you get 100% execution against the ABs you will lose 30-10 as oppose to 45-10
27 Aug 2012, 19:07 pm
Read a good tweet this morning…Plan A for HM is playing up and unders. Plan B is Gary Owens
27 Aug 2012, 19:07 pm
the backline plays so far behind the advantage line because the flyhalf is so deep in the pocket. We need to improve speed of ruck ball, by changing scrumhalf to Pienaar, and instruct current flyhalf to play more directly, or change flyhalves. Bulls flyhalf Fouche looks like a good player, but a bit too early to judge. I though that Walsh allowed the argies to get away with playing the ball on the ground too much – wasnt a fair contest. that said we didnt adapt and are too slow to get to the breakdown to contest properly.
27 Aug 2012, 19:10 pm
@Sheriff-660:
The scary thing is SA has the resources to hire the guy! BUT it will take 12-24 months to get him!!
There needs to be a master plan in place to recruit the BEST coaching and management team available.
Why is this so F…..ing hard in SA?
Imagine if Apple fired its CEO and did not have anyone to replace him???? The board would be fired on its arse by the shareholders.
The sooner SA Rugby starts being run like a professional sports organisation with the FULL backing of the resources at its disposal in a professional way, the sooner we will all see the results we want and feel that we can produce.
This is THE ONLY difference between NZ and SA rugby, and is the NZ competitive advantage. That is it.
Don’t blame Meyer. He is a proven S14 title winning coach.
27 Aug 2012, 19:10 pm
Saturday’s result was the best th!ng that could’ve happened to the Boks and rugby !n general. We d!dn’t lose but th!s w!ll be hell of a wake up call. Also the Arg!es are happy ’cause they manage a draw wh!ch w!ll more than l!kely be the!r best result of the Rugby Champ!onsh!p.
27 Aug 2012, 19:11 pm
@Sheriff-668:
Sherrif – NO game plan will work if you do not win the forward battle. Period.
27 Aug 2012, 19:16 pm
Getting there
Almost 1000
Yawn
27 Aug 2012, 19:16 pm
@The Analyst-671: Wayne Smith won’t join SA, the NZ media and NZRU will put pressure on him not to move. He almost joined Lancaster at the RFU but the NZRU pulled out all the stops to keep him.
27 Aug 2012, 19:21 pm
@Big Hit-675:
Heyneke should try to get Todd Lauden again, he was his attack coach in 2007
27 Aug 2012, 19:22 pm
@Humphrey-603:
lol – pretty impressive tho, think he’s fluent in french too.
27 Aug 2012, 19:24 pm
Yawn Dawn
Manne, wat gaan hier aan vandag?
Droom ek, of het die Bokke wragtig gelykop gespeel teen die Argies?
27 Aug 2012, 19:24 pm
@Big Hit-675:
Only thing that will keep him is a promise that he is ‘next in line’ to coach the ABs … which is OBVIOUSLY what he has gotten.
This is what I mean about the ABs and NZ. They are thinking 4 years ahead. GONE are the John Hart days …. it is Pro Ball now days.
I just frikking PRAY the Boks get there one day …. and it will ONLY happen under Meyer.
27 Aug 2012, 19:25 pm
@The Analyst-671:
Why are you defending Meyer?
Meyer has come into the role and articulated his philosophy namely ‘direct rugby’; that to my understanding is: do not seek out the space between the players but rather run directly onto the opponent with the view to dominate him physically.
This view or approach is flawed to the core. The reality is that just because a player is 122 kg and the opponent is say 112 kg; it does not follow that the heavier one will dominate. If the latter’s technique is superior then you get directly the opposite result.
Meyer’s clear bias is towards bigger players which is not different from Jake White’s.
A smarter way would be to say: I want players that can front up physically but most importantly have the skills that can help us create try scoring opportunities.
I think I need to remind you how Meyer became a Super 12 winning coach; Bryan Habana scored a try in the 83rd minute, in other words, it could have gone either way. Frans Ludeke’s win over the Chiefs was a lot more convincing and emphatic.
27 Aug 2012, 19:27 pm
@Sheriff-680:
> Frans Ludeke’s win over the Chiefs was a lot more convincing and emphatic.
With the team Heyneke built
From scratch
Using U/20 players
27 Aug 2012, 19:28 pm
@The Analyst-679:
Also, my first changes would be:
1) FIRE the SARU executive and tear up whatever bullshit charter they have.
2) Appoint a professional Board of Directors – each with only 4 year terms.
3) HIRE a CEO of SA Rugby with the job description to make South Africa Rugby the best in the World.
Simple.
27 Aug 2012, 19:30 pm
The Alalyst @ 565.Amen to that.
27 Aug 2012, 19:30 pm
You have more chance of tearing up the Consitution.
27 Aug 2012, 19:30 pm
Alalyst=Analyst
27 Aug 2012, 19:31 pm
@Sheriff-680:
I defend him because he is playing the game plan at them moment so as not to lose. He hasn’t. He has not had the time nor the right personnel (both players and coaching and management) to do otherwise.
The ‘skills that can help us create try scoring opportunities’ will come once they have mastered the first part.
27 Aug 2012, 19:32 pm
@ryecatcher-685:
Freudian slip there ryecatcher? Showing your true colours?
Grow up man.
27 Aug 2012, 19:34 pm
@victoriabok-681:
And that is exactly my point.
27 Aug 2012, 19:36 pm
YoMama@574.Double Amen
27 Aug 2012, 19:37 pm
Keo’s comments are accurate & a comparison with the ABs right. I too have concerns with Heyneke’s rugby philosophy (& I’m a bulls supporter).
For years we’ve heard that Jake’s success was built on Heyneke’s foundation… Wld love a quote from VM or FdP on Saturday’s woeful performance.
However to be fair, on Saturday the Aussies wld have lost and the AB’s won in the last 10mins (2 quick tries).
27 Aug 2012, 19:39 pm
@The Analyst-673:
It is naive to think that in 2012 you come out as coach and state that your strategy is to dominate with the forwards.
That is par for the course; you have to compete and be secure of your scrums and line-outs and obviously at the breakdown. But it will not let you win games; the differentiator will be to surprise your opponent or keeping him guessing which create opportunities in itself.
Heyneke has had close contact with the Boks ( Victor and Fourie du Preez) for more than 4 years /probably closer to 8 and should have been better prepared in terms of how he wants to play.
Without a dangerous backline at international level your chances of winning are severely limited. Because it’s a game of constant movement, the aspect of pace or speed becomes important. For that reason, you want to get the ball to your backline so they can create the gap or advance over the adv line. By passing to forwards you are slowing things down considerably in at least 2 ways:
1. The passing is not as crisp i.e the ball takes longer to reach the recipient
2. The recipient if a forward is that extra yards slower
This enables the defence to re-organise and defend with multiple layers. Also because things are happening slower a defender can defend several times in one wave of attack.
Surely these are the basics.
27 Aug 2012, 19:40 pm
@Train-690:
Train. Why don’t you go and put on the ABs vs Irish game, 2nd Test in June, and then compare that to Saterday?
That was the AB wake up call. Everyone needs one sometimes.
27 Aug 2012, 19:40 pm
Not in SA so not tuned into latest news… Will Schalk and Juan be back anytime soon? We need them and Bekker needs to be dropped and Hougie needs to go back to the bench (until his got his confidence back)
27 Aug 2012, 19:42 pm
Analyst – agree Irish game was ABs wake up call. I thought the Boks in PE was their wake-up call?
27 Aug 2012, 19:42 pm
@victoriabok-681:
But Frans coached them with Slaptjips as assistant
Why is Frans not allowed some credit?
27 Aug 2012, 19:43 pm
@victoriabok-681: may be true, but Meyer never had the Bulls playing the way Ludeke did, for a time under him they were phenomenal, almost unbeatable.
27 Aug 2012, 19:44 pm
Also Prrhaps JL Potgieter not Test rugby standard
27 Aug 2012, 19:45 pm
@The Analyst-686:
He does not have the plan to win at international level. Period.
Just wait and see.
PdV had the perfect game plan namely total rugby: attack AND defence; forward play AND backline play
Victor Matfield and Fourie du Preez bullied team back to the ‘verkrampte’ style of rugby.
27 Aug 2012, 19:45 pm
Richie McCaw and Dan Carter will be managed carefully through to the next World Cup??????????
Are you smoking boom keo?
27 Aug 2012, 19:48 pm
@Sheriff-698:
You must be a comedian
Lol PDV had the perfect plan
27 Aug 2012, 19:50 pm
Lol 4 years aa long time, alot can or will happen by then keo. they will either retiré before then or there places will be taken which, they pretty much aré already.
27 Aug 2012, 19:50 pm
There are tough times ahead for Bok fans, that’s for sure.
See if your plan is flawed, perfect execution will still yield the undesirable result.
We have not seen 10 games under the newly installed leadership and already severe doubts flare up about STUBBORNESS.
The definition of insanity then comes into play: trying the same thing over and over and over but expecting a different result.
27 Aug 2012, 19:53 pm
@Sheriff-650: Yes, and hence (at least in my opinion) he ended up with Joost as captain. As a rugby player I rated Joost very highly, but Joost was Nick Mallets ‘yes man’ and it cost us in the semi-final against Australia in 1999.
Joost (quite honorably) played Nick’s game plan until the final whistle.
Apparently near the end of Teichman’s time as captain he was beginning to question Nick’s game plan and team selection more and more and this didn’t suit Mallet. If Teich was on the field I think he would have modified our approach in that game leading into the closing phases. We had all the ability to win that match, but could not close. Considering the performance by France in the final, I would say it cost us the world cup.
To some extent the same can be said about John Smit and Pieter de Villiers. John was a brilliant captain all along, but he should have been able to see what was going on and implement some game plan changes on the field to nullify the diabolical refereeing by Lawrence in the 2011 semi-final against Australia. Heyneke will still have his victories as coach, but we need a coach and a captain that can make things happen when the pressure is on.
I have all the respect in the world for Jean De Villiers but wonder whether he has the ‘killer instinct’ and the ability to direct his team to use the weapons at their disposal to counteract the opposition when the chips are down.
I think Heyneke has some thinking to do. We have the players, but we cant afford passengers – not from the players nor the coaching staff.
27 Aug 2012, 19:54 pm
@Sheriff-702:
Are you a Bok supporter Sher!ff?
27 Aug 2012, 19:55 pm
I think part of this avg performance in arg.. was due to them not being up for it mentally, and The hostile crowd might have also played a factor, Well lets hope thats what it was besides The piss poor gameplan and flyhalf
27 Aug 2012, 19:56 pm
@Boksarenumber1-700:
He did; he managed to get his way in that game against the Aussies at Ellis Park and the result was 53-8.
Thereafter we returned to the ‘traditional strengths of South African rugby’ under the decisive leadership of lieutenants Victor Matfield and Fourie du Preez.
He then caused unnecessary problems for himself with bizarre utterances one after the other and the midst of the pressure, the lieutenants took the gap.
27 Aug 2012, 19:57 pm
@Boksarenumber1-699: Are you seriously asking this question…..you must by now know the answer..let me just say Keo knows more about the white stuff on a rugby pitch than the actual game.. if press reports are correct
27 Aug 2012, 19:59 pm
@Train-694:
Good point, hey maybe we needed x2
It is where we go from here which counts. Even if we lose a few.
27 Aug 2012, 20:04 pm
@Jeraldjay-704:
Why do you ask?
27 Aug 2012, 20:07 pm
@Dusky-703: …do we have the players? Seriously?
Some of the best ones are in a different country —- We have:
1 Tight head…..name anyone that can now replace Jannie
Hookers, maybe a few but very loose and not of the fetching calibre which means we are now a 6 short
Loosehead props, many..but the in form one Guthro is in France
Locks——One in Etsebeth and maybe Kruger…Bekker is soft, and Moster and Anton van Zyl who are the real deals are in France
6 Flank ——–No One, please do not say Minnie…he gets pinged every 5 minutes
7 – ——- CJ Stander and Arno Botha good, but inexperience
8—- Name one—–Jacques Cronje and Joe are in France…..we have duane Vermeulen
9//// OK name anyone better than Hougie……Pienaar cannot tackle and will not tackle…
10 We have some options-Jantjes, Goosen
11…No one
12 Steyn and?
13JDV is slow
14 JP injured and now what
15 Name anyone
So not really that depth that always brag about as our depth is eating le escargot and sipping champagne
27 Aug 2012, 20:08 pm
@Sheriff-709:
You appear to take pleasure !n Bok rugby’s current m!sfortune.
27 Aug 2012, 20:08 pm
@Dusky-703:
Yes I’m a big fan of Jean’s.
He is probably past his best physically but with the benefit of exp should be ok to operate at that level.
My concern is that Jean must be empowered to lead the team. Meyer cannot sit and freak out in the coaches box the way he did in Mendoza. That was pathetic.
Meyer must become more strategic and leave the operational bits to the assistants. Of course he can intervene where necessary but to be in total control from the word go is foolish and could lead to premature burnout.
27 Aug 2012, 20:10 pm
@Jeraldjay-711:
I am merely blowing the shofar!
And it is a ‘tekiah gedolah’ sound
27 Aug 2012, 20:12 pm
Gents – have a splendid evening.
27 Aug 2012, 20:12 pm
@Sheriff-712:
Yes, HM looked like a bust A$$hole in the booth. A captain has no chance under those peptic circumstances.
27 Aug 2012, 20:13 pm
@Sheriff-713:
Good to hear.
Mad!ba’s a huge Bok fan.
27 Aug 2012, 20:26 pm
So much after the fact anxiety when some of us with just a little bit of clarity careering through our rugby awareness saw this coming a mile off
How come its such a massive surprise to all the so called ‘kenners’ over here.?
Its been full of pretentious garbage waiting to explode since day one of this fiasco.. in fact I can pinpoint all this drama all the way back to 1 Jan 2004 if you really wanna know where this garbage actually began.
This is JW – HM.. so called ‘springbok strengths’ rugby we been exposed to throughout 2004 – 2012 and now its simply continuing to get exposed for the outright garbage it has always been..
Except one pitiful lucky packet WC won under the play without the ball so called Springbok strengths strategy has fooled and bamboozled all these idiotic Springbok supporters into actually believing these have been our strengths when fact of the actual matter it is precisely and exactly the opposite way around..
This JW – HM – JS – VM – Rassie – FdP garbage rugby is precisely our weakness.. only now it has no more place to hide anymore and thank the rugby gods for that because this garbage has to LEAVE SA rugby consciousness once and for all and forever..!!!
27 Aug 2012, 20:30 pm
We need a proper back line coach and proper inspirational back line selections
The pack is working, but the back line needs a speedy 9 – Hougie OK for now
Steyn out at 10, Jantjes or Goose
12 we keep Steyn
13 we need, Habana I reckon
27 Aug 2012, 20:34 pm
Jean de Villiers is a thinking captain.. but he ain’t no ja broer.. so if HM wants a ja mnr.., nee mnr.., drie sakkies vol mnr.. kinda captain then Jean is the wrong man
and if HM pulls some antics that don’t sit too good with Jeans conscience he gonna let HM know about it..
I already sensed a little bit of contention in Jeans reactions when he gave the after match speech.. one can only surmise they all reading off the same hymn sheet but if there are any reasons for doubting some decisions and some overarching dictatorial style policy Meyer could land up and find himself singing Ave Maria almost solo with a little bitty chorus in the backing band all dressed in powdery blue.
27 Aug 2012, 20:40 pm
@fitz1ella-719: Jean, should concentrate on his own level of play and leave coaching for those who coach
27 Aug 2012, 20:40 pm
fitzy you left out PDV in your analysis of all that has been wrong with bok rugby since 2004. he was the man at the helm for 4 long years. i’m assuming that was intentional. if so, you’re funny
27 Aug 2012, 20:40 pm
Seems l!ke HM’s only select!on changes for the Austral!as!an leg w!ll once aga!n be at loose forward and maybe fullback.
Don’t th!nk he has the balls to change 9 or 10.
27 Aug 2012, 20:43 pm
Everybody still on this delusional rant that Hougaard is too slow off the base of the scrum for Bok No.9
Hougaard must STAY at 9 and his backup should be Sarel Pretorius..
Hougaard was the best Bok back the entire game… WAY ahead of Pienaar’s service and mongrel and intention in EVERY aspect of his play..
but all the ‘kenners’ here wanna drop Hougaard to bench or wing and have Pienaar start..
This is what baffles me NO end..
I reckon the majority of Springbok so called rugby kenners don’t have a goddamn clue in the world when it comes down to REAL ideas about what and who works where.., and who don’t…
Ruaan Pienaar should have remained a fly half through his career, he would by now be FAR FAR better than Morne Steyn as the international pivot we do not have… It was outright criminal yanking him off vs Br. Lions and instating Steyn forever more.. Pienaar should have STAYED at Bok No. 10 back then even if his goal percentages were less accurate than Steyn’s his general running play was always STREAKS ahead.. and Boks gave up a running game for a goddamn kick and chase garbage strategy which resulted in Smit – FdP and PdV sucking up 12 or 13 losses in the last 2 years of their combined reign as Bok maestro’s with Morne Steyn at 10 and FdP at 9….
Go f’ng figure.. who the fck is fooling WHO .. !!!
27 Aug 2012, 20:46 pm
@fitz1ella-719:
> I already sensed a little bit of contention in Jeans reactions when he gave the after match speech..
He’s just as guilty as the rest, he won’t pass if his life depended on it
Look at how many tries the Stormers scored this year?
Wouldn’t your “thinking captain” have solved the Stormers` “lack of tries” by now?
27 Aug 2012, 20:48 pm
@fitz1ella-723:
Hougie 9 and Pienaar 10?
Can’t be worse than Morne?
27 Aug 2012, 20:48 pm
fitzy tries so desperately to prove that he is a real kenner. do you think nobody takes the poor man seriously in the real world for us to have to live with his warped sense of self worth?
27 Aug 2012, 20:49 pm
Pienaar doesn’t want to play 10 and why should he. there is already an accomplished back up 10 in the squad.
27 Aug 2012, 20:50 pm
@victoriabok-724: see my post at 720
@fitz1ella-723: Hougaardt was fine, no he was really good…but his buddy old Morne…. as soon as he gets on a aeroplane he loses it
27 Aug 2012, 20:53 pm
@victoriabok-725: Pienaar has mental issues, the hamster seems to not always run in the right direction
27 Aug 2012, 20:56 pm
@JL1-728:
Morne should leave, and babysit his baby full time, that’s all he’s cares about at the moment
I’d put Jantjies at 10 with Lambie as back up
He had more games at ten than Lambie and won’t get injured that often
27 Aug 2012, 21:00 pm
Heyneke is a dead duck. Teacher’s mentality. Surrounded himself with Bulls’ second rate coaches. Will be out in 2 years from now.
27 Aug 2012, 21:01 pm
@victoriabok-730: Without patting your back, I totally agree with you
Jantjes seems better to get a line running, kicks good at posts and tackles, now what more could we ask for
We could maybe ask for a better 8 or a better balanced back row, and Mvovo is not really cut out yet for test rugby….. he does not look for work at all
At fullback we could do with an attacking back with some speed
27 Aug 2012, 21:03 pm
@Humphrey-721:
PdV went along with this SAME garbage backward entrenched thinking because he was TOLD in no uncertain terms that ball in hand rugby was NOT Springbok strength.. and NO way were the senior rugby caucuses going to adapt to his hair brain ideas of carrying the ball instead of kicking and chasing it..
So yes PdV gets lumped along with these pathetic moronic excuses called rugby coaches.. RS.. JW… and his little entourage of WC winners who basically pulled a coup d’etat and insisted that PdV went along with the circus show… and now HM singing exactly off the same garbage strategical numb skull agenda..
Springboks haven’t basically played any adventurous rugby since Mallet in around 1998.. Streauli then White and Smit-FdP-Matfield-PdV and now HM along with Rassie and his other BB loons are so entrenched and stuck in this bog morass of derelict rugby thinking.. I’m actually hoping we get thumped another 6 games in succession TILL the lesson ACTUALLY SINKS IN..!!!
Check the Boks success in recent years under this hopeless garbage delusion of our so called ‘Strengths’
2009 Eoyt – France – LOSS.., Ireland – LOSS, (Leicester Tigers – LOSS, Saracens – LOSS)
2010 3N – NZ – LOSS, Aus – LOSS, NZ – LOSS, Aus – Win, NZ – LOSS, Aus – LOSS.
2011 3N – NZ – LOSS, Aus – LOSS, Aus – LOSS, NZ – Win
WC – 2011 – Wales – 1 pt win, Aus – LOSS
So in head to head tests against top tier top 5 competition through the last 3 years and counting Boks LOST 11 times from 14 starts
If you add losses to Leicester and Saracens also it gets worse 13 losses from 16 starts
ALL this played under the auspices of these so called ‘Springbok Strength’ rugby.. kick and chase.. play without the ball… instituted MADNESS by the architect of this garbage who happened to fluke a no contest WC under such idiocy so the rest of the SA skaaps reckon it must be true.. this garbage surely NUST be our real rugby heritage where we play this game WITHOUT the ball and try feast off opposition mistakes….
27 Aug 2012, 21:05 pm
@Lang Giel-731: Not a chance, SA Rugby can hardly afford any golden handshakes….trust me on this one… he is there for the full 4 years..no payment after 2 years
We need a back line coach!!!
27 Aug 2012, 21:06 pm
@fitz1ella-733: so name your 15?!?!?
27 Aug 2012, 21:10 pm
Naka for Head Coach!
27 Aug 2012, 21:12 pm
@fitz1ella-723: streets ahead….streets ahead buddy….not streaks ahead….LOL….
Kan jou laaik to be wearing a jean pant wiff short sleefs ?
27 Aug 2012, 21:12 pm
@JL1-732:
We need another hooker, Chilliboy would have been better, maybe Burden?
We need harder, tougher locks that Bekker and better than Flip, Juandre, Mostert, Anton van Zyl and another.
What about Franco vd Merwe or Willemse from the Lions?
We’ve got so many injured loosies it’s hard to pick an uninjured one.
We need a fetcher in Bismarck’s absence, I’d rather have Stegmann in than Tarzan Potgieter, or another like Minnie
Get another solid scrummie to start and put Hougie in Mvovo’s spot, and move him to scrummie later in the game
Kirchner is to slow on the attack from 15
27 Aug 2012, 21:13 pm
Heineke for Choral Director.
27 Aug 2012, 21:14 pm
@Humphrey-726: Fitzy is bone from the neck up. What do you expect ?
27 Aug 2012, 21:17 pm
@victoriabok-738: Etsebeth is fine, he needs to play.. I agree with Mostert or Van Zyl
Chilli is injured, so no crying there. Burden should be tested but looking at the Super 15 team of the week, Adriaan did Ok considering their pack
Stegman, Flo they are similar I would call up Brussouw and why not?
Fullback we need Taute firing
27 Aug 2012, 21:17 pm
@Humphrey-726: why don’t you just revert to your proper grootwitnaai name Mr. Bogart old Humphry Humperdink was way before your time…
@victoriabok-725:
Hougaard 9 – Pienaar 10 would have worked, and we may have scored some legitimate tries instead of that lucky packet charge down which gave this false sense of flukety security…
Your Heyneke is malbevok.. he got no sense of real feel for this game.. all his decisions and his reactions are based along predetermined structured fixed pre selected strategies.. he simply cannot read whats happening and react accordingly .. his planning is such that it gotta go according his initial intention and he is unable to adapt in the moment..
In other words he can’t think for himself for toffee.. He is way too rigid and stuck in his thinking patterns which is basically ALL SA rugby coaches problem..
White needed an Aussie to unlock the Boks game
Meyer at Bulls needed Louden.. and Muir at Sharks needed Campese..
PdV tried with Rassie but Rssie is just as dom bevok as the rest
Naka Drotsky is actually most wide awake SA coach currently..
Coetsee, Meyer, Ludekak, and the rest all got this cowardly fear of losing killing the SA game.. that why EVERYONE except Cheetahs.. and Sharks on occasion .. play this goddamn dead end garbage kick and chase game.
27 Aug 2012, 21:18 pm
@Dusky-740:
That well endowed?
Geluk Oom Skop
27 Aug 2012, 21:20 pm
A few players in talks with the Sharks. I promised not to mention names on any blogs so I wont but, there could be some interesting announcements coming up. And not all of them from the Lions…..
27 Aug 2012, 21:21 pm
@fitz1ella-742: no idea what you talkin about. i see you didn’t like my comment though.
27 Aug 2012, 21:21 pm
@fitz1ella-742:
> Naka Drotsky is actually most wide awake SA coach currently..
He must be, there are a lot of Bloemfontein husbands looking for him
> Coetsee, Meyer, Ludekak, and the rest all got this cowardly fear of losing killing the SA game..
Yes, because they get fired if they lose
> that why EVERYONE except Cheetahs
And how’s that working for them?
27 Aug 2012, 21:24 pm
@JL1-735:
A. Coetsee
Aplon
JdV (c)
Steyn
Habana
Jantjies (Goosen when ready)
Hougaard
Vermeulen
Alberts
Louw / Stegman (Brussow when ready)
Etsebeth
Elstadt
Cilliers
Fourie
Gurthro
Beast, Liebenberg, Nel, Kruger, Coetsee / Daniel, Pienaar, Lambie
27 Aug 2012, 21:30 pm
@victoriabok-746:
Naka has the best rugby brain in SA. All the others need Brooklax and Sprite cocktail after Sunday school.
27 Aug 2012, 21:32 pm
@fitz1ella-747:
Awesome team, though I would go for Taute at 15. We’d take the AB’s on in their backyard.
27 Aug 2012, 21:33 pm
@Jinx2-748:
Jeez Boet, he makes Ludeke look like Stephen Hawking
27 Aug 2012, 21:34 pm
@victoriabok-750:
27 Aug 2012, 21:43 pm
@Jinx2-751:
Rassie is probably the smartest tactical guy we have in our rugby
27 Aug 2012, 21:51 pm
@Sheriff-712: meyer is either a dictator or a an uber pedantic ocd character!
everytime he talks about a captain he says “i want a guy who is going to be an extension of me on the field”
that’s why he is the only international coach BARKING orders like a lunatic & sucking on energade!
all his captains at the bulls were yes-man, victor fought with jake & jake told him he was arrogant, vic disputed & fought until meyer concured with jake THEN victor was like “dang if heyneke says it maybe i am”
2008 with meyer gone, fdp took over tge captaincy & failed miserably.
27 Aug 2012, 21:52 pm
746 lol naka looks like a funny man
27 Aug 2012, 21:53 pm
@victoriabok-752: what do u think his input is in the current archaic gameplan?
27 Aug 2012, 21:58 pm
@victoriabok-752: Rassie is stupid.. its one big fat misnomer that he’s so smart.. Naka is actually a clever rugby coach who got a quick eye for what works and implements it… Everybody thinks Rassie is this clever maverick type genius.. Rassie is thick and another one of these one track single dimensional idiots…
Rassie’s hair brain idea of the super bench and Burger to chief cook and bottle washer ball carrier deluxe is very prominently what cost PdV his WC in 2011
Beside Smit should have been a player / coach like Skinstadt in 2007.. and Bismark should have started every test.. Spies should have been on bench with Alberts starting … Louw should have started if Brussow was injured… Burger should NEVER have been the go to ball carrying general.. a Rassie ploy of stupidity if ever there was one.. which back fired so bad it what ACTUALLY cost Boks the 1/4 final…
Rassie done very little rugby wise.. its a big fat hoax that he’s this smart rugby genius.. his maverick ideas mainly backfire and don’t work.. just like all his stuff ups which are simply too many to mention.
He cost PdV the WC.. and he also cost Stormers couple S15 results with his clever ploys that misfire.
27 Aug 2012, 22:02 pm
@Transformation-753:
> 2008 with meyer gone,
And Victor, Roets and Gary
> fdp took over tge captaincy & failed miserably.
With a new coach and a disrupted pack without both leaders, yes
Assumption is the mother of all f-ups
27 Aug 2012, 22:06 pm
Have just watched the game again and tried to make any sense of what went so terribly wrong.Cant say im much of an analyst but did notice a few very simple and basic problems.If I could only make two adjustments this is what I would do.
I will bring in a breakdown specialist.No I will bring in two.Brussouw and F Louw.Not that one guy on the field will change everyting but it creates that awareness in the team on how to play the breakdown.The others will follow.
Secondly I dont know why they dont kick for territory anymore.From midfield they just kicked uppies into the argies hands and that was it.Back to defending.Kick for the corners and put pressure on the lineouts.From there our big ball carriers have a chance to get the scoreboard rolling, and it takes pressure off the boks.
27 Aug 2012, 22:08 pm
@fitz1ella-756:
> Rassie is stupid.. its one big fat misnomer that he’s so smart..
Hmm, strange that the Stormers’ success started when he went there?
27 Aug 2012, 22:08 pm
Thats why FdP didn’t wanna come and be HM’s stooge captain and why JdV got the gig by default.. FdP don’t have the balls for Bok captaincy and he knows it..
Only JdV is not a ja broer like FdP and he got way more character and a thinking mind of his own.. so if HM wants to force a bad issue i reckon JdV won’t back down if its rankling his conscience..
27 Aug 2012, 22:10 pm
@victoriabok-757: no assumption, i watched it alk happen!
10 boks in the team & getting POMPED by 50 points by the crusaders at loftus!
ludeke, like heyneke blamed the players NEVER his own gameplan
27 Aug 2012, 22:10 pm
@victoriabok-757: no assumption, i watched it all happen!
10 boks in the team & getting POMPED by 50 points by the crusaders at loftus!
ludeke, like heyneke blamed the players NEVER his own gameplan
27 Aug 2012, 22:11 pm
fitzy, you must either be a present or recent player or coach, as you seem to know the players inside and out. there is no other way you can so boldly tell us what is in FDP or JDVs brains or what their characters and personalities are like without having spent lots of time with them. so who are you and how do you know the Boks and ex Boks so well?
27 Aug 2012, 22:17 pm
@fitz1ella-760: “FdP don’t have the balls for Bok captaincy and he knows it..”
hahahaha you are funny skop!
i remember FdP in ’08 looking forlon at post-match interviews… this one time he said “i’ve ran out of excuses”
27 Aug 2012, 22:17 pm
@victoriabok-759: stupid is the wrong word
self engrossed and off track is better.. Rassie didn’t amount much at Stormers
He tried fitting Watson, Vermeulen and Burger together.. by playing Watson at 8 Vermeulen 7 and Burger 6.. big fckup which bombed poorly.. only when Watson took over captaincy from Burger and started playing with a young Stormers team with F Louw and P Louw and Vermeulen and A. Van Zyl at 5 thats when Stormers hit their straps and almost came right.. when Burger came back and took charge again is when with all the Rassie wiles in the world we still couldn’t do the thing..
this year we had all the makings till Coetsee hit his familiar JW entrenched defensive cowardly conservative ceiling but Stormers had better chance without Rassie and without Burger.. if Vermeulen, Elstadt, Kolisi, Carr would have remained fit this year we would have creamed the dream.
Rassie is a hit and miss maverick.. he ain’t no astute rugby brain.. his off beam thinking is more often miss than on target, and that why he sent PdV totally up the garden path with that bullshit super bench at the WC theory.. BIG fckup that cost PdV the WC along with Burger at first receiver.
27 Aug 2012, 22:19 pm
@Humphrey-763: skop is omnipresent
27 Aug 2012, 22:20 pm
@fitz1ella-747: Very good selection indeed, excuse my ignorance, Coetzee at 15,who is he?
27 Aug 2012, 22:22 pm
@fitz1ella-756: is it Naka, or is it Hawies Fourie?
27 Aug 2012, 22:22 pm
@JL1-767: andries coetzee the new craze around town….plays for the Lions…
27 Aug 2012, 22:23 pm
48 billion light years accross – now that’s some space
27 Aug 2012, 22:25 pm
@Transformation-761: so do most coaches….Mallet blamed Gaffie…..
27 Aug 2012, 22:26 pm
@fitz1ella-765:
Any coach that sits on a stadium roof and flickers lights at his players or whatever the hell he did cannot be much of an astute coach. I think this whole Rassie is a genius myth was created by Vrede who has a penchant for trying to use as many big words as he can to sound like he knows what he is talking about – and hey presto some of these huge *** words were attached to Rassie and we have some freaking genius that would rival Einstein and would cause Wayne Smith to rephilosphize all his rugby acumen!!!
Who knows Maybe come the NZ/Aus tests we might see Rassie sitting on the roof at Forsyth Barr with a walkie talkie flickering lights. Hope he has a coat though! Brrrrr!!
27 Aug 2012, 22:27 pm
@Transformation-762:
Yet nearly the same team b-utt fu-cked the Chiefs and won the S14 a year later?
Any of the top teams could trounce another on the day, ask the AB’s about two WC semi’s against the Frogs?
27 Aug 2012, 22:27 pm
@JL1-767: young Lions full back.. watch him.. got a Christian Cullen kind of running rugby knack with gifted boot off both feet.
I’d be willing to chuck him in the deep end
I would also look at some other juniors to blood rather sooner than later
Rhule, Serfontein, Sithole, Jordaan and maybe Fouche at 10 / 15
Du Toit, Willemse, A. Botha
27 Aug 2012, 22:27 pm
@Transformation-769: …and all of a Sardine he should play for the Boks?
27 Aug 2012, 22:28 pm
SA has lots of undercooked talent, I think we will be much better come next year, still I think most bok fans reservations abt heynecke are becoming sadly closer to fact
27 Aug 2012, 22:29 pm
@fitz1ella-774: Yes, he will blood the youngsters, maybe next year it seems
Du Toit, A Botha, both will play better than Potgieter…(The Wynand Olivier of flankers)
27 Aug 2012, 22:31 pm
@pat1-772: I am with you, the whole Rassie thing seems to be talk and propaganda , like most things in SA
27 Aug 2012, 22:34 pm
@fitz1ella-760:
> Thats why FdP didn’t wanna come and be HM’s stooge captain
Wrong again, he’s shoulder is f-cked, that’s why he went to play in Japan, instead of risking his shoulder at potentially still hard NH rugby
Again assumption….
> and why JdV got the gig by default..
He could have declined it?
Did he?
No?
Who is the f-ckin stooge now?
So better man up, no Stormers type “if we” coulda, shoulda, woulda excuses this time, this is it
Nut up or shut up
27 Aug 2012, 22:34 pm
whats 48 billion light years across.. the physical universe as deciphered and designed by the mathematical scientists?
they don’t know how many billion light years it is across and where or how it began.. or how fixed or mutable this matter or space is…
they can only measure what their intellects or apparatus allow them to.
27 Aug 2012, 22:37 pm
The overseas Bok situation is really starting to hurt our rugby now….
Guthro should be in the prime of his carrer now with Boks….
F Louw as well….
Quite a few props…..J Fourie….a couple of locks….
we starting to really feel the pain now…
27 Aug 2012, 22:38 pm
Fkn amazing hey – gd bless their little socks – imagine just a couple millenia ago we were swing from the trees now we got a map of it all – but u wouldn’t appreciate it – rather watch usain bolt run at the pace of a 3-legged elephant
27 Aug 2012, 22:40 pm
Rory Kockott, wonder if he’ll ever find favour again, he might do well for the boks, he’s kind of got a gud mix of athleticism and overseas experience. I just dont forsee ruan or hougies becoming great in a bok jersey at 9, Kockott, I dunno,i think he’s matured nicely in france
27 Aug 2012, 22:40 pm
@Transformation-769: Hey – I spotted him first
27 Aug 2012, 22:41 pm
@Transformation-764:
Hold that though till next year when your ANC Broeders team get b-utt fu-cked week after week and Pukie do his post match interview
Presenter:”Here we are with the losing captain of the KY Southern Kings, Pukie Watson, Pukie what happened today, why did you lose 120-3 to the Chiefs?”
Pukie:”We’ll Johan we tried, but it didn’t make sense on the field or in church, you must remember winning is not everything”
27 Aug 2012, 22:44 pm
@grant10-781:
Bakkies, Anton v Zyl, Gerhard Mostert
Jacques Cronje would have been better at 8 than anyone else
Pedrie, next year CJ Wannenburg as well
27 Aug 2012, 22:45 pm
you do know that about 10,000 years ago they were watching this universe and had a far closer understanding of it that you have today.
its all been done but you still cant see it.. only what you mathematically theoretically measure and postulate about in your text book
so you not seeing anything really.. you don’t know if its 48 billion light years across.. or 150 billion light years in diameter. its all just another figment of your vivid theoretical imagination…
but that ain’t seeing.. its just imagining.
27 Aug 2012, 22:51 pm
What constitutes a “far better understanding”, you big talking phoney? In plain English, what did “they” understand about the universe? Plain English – no swearing, no waffle, no metaphors. Can you do that for me?
27 Aug 2012, 22:51 pm
Oh I know all that – but in terms of human achievement they about as backward as u get – ain’t been done ever before – not even remotely close.
It’s expanding and accelerating – either rip onse poephol uit or snaps shut in reverse at some stage
the closest stuff your tutu wushu washy comes is that tge vast majority if stuff, matter, energy, incebergs, unobsevablee are hidden –
But the thinking mind does not make man stoopid – quite the opposite.
27 Aug 2012, 22:52 pm
@willievz-784: a few did spot him but you were the first to rave about him
he got a rugby gift I hope they don’t ruin another one.
27 Aug 2012, 22:55 pm
only fitzy knows how big the universe is, he is the kenner of all things and only he is right.
27 Aug 2012, 22:56 pm
what the scientists are beginning to scratch at the surface of the watchatutu’s knew inherently and intimately and personally from experience.. you think your apparatus is so highly fangle dangle new age super duper smart… you still a baby in the real world of cosmological understanding
and don’t get a big fat shock if they don’t find out for a fact that some other big brothers in other galaxy’s watching as you think you so far down the track of your evolutionary discovery and education
27 Aug 2012, 22:56 pm
@Humphrey-791:
Skop Sagan?
27 Aug 2012, 22:58 pm
matter is actually illusion.. and anti matter or dark matter is what you seeking to understand whats reality.
27 Aug 2012, 23:06 pm
Come come the tuts aunt taught zip nada zero
what science really reveals is how ignorant we really are and how little we know – tutus teach nothing of this hidden nature of reality – that’s why for them their ain’t nothng new under the sun from their perspective.
This bullshit about them developing clarity of perception by getting rid ifvtgeir ego is a load of kak – they the most self-centred buggers around and busy steking half their adoring disciples and fleecing the others – at least those crazy relious are more selfless and do positive **** like mama T
27 Aug 2012, 23:07 pm
@JL1-775: @willievz-784: i know, you must have google alerts on his name cos here you are! funny thing is most here wanna liken a.coetzee to israel dagg but when i said israel was the future some said no, a solid foolback like fransie with a massive boot is what SA needs now dagg is ripping teams new ones everyday…in ’09/10 it was mils, dagg, beale, kearney, foden…
heyneke still has kirchner..
27 Aug 2012, 23:10 pm
@victoriabok-785: why would the ANC be my “broeders”?
27 Aug 2012, 23:13 pm
what you know what the tutu’s teach.. you ever ask one?
some people today still swear the tutu’s are all knowing next to god.. that they been there and done it all from the alpha to the omega.. and now you little puny Harvard class bumpkins wanna come pretend that you discovering something so fantastically new.. quarks and leptons and bosuns and all that gobbledy gook razzmatazz jazz, when back the ranch they knew it all LONG time before you ever opened your pie chart or your lap top or your E=MC2 text book
rocket science is old hat to the dudes who can stream across the milky way faster than the speed of light
27 Aug 2012, 23:14 pm
@Transformation-797: he said your tea the Kings are ANC broeders, which they are. relax.
27 Aug 2012, 23:16 pm
@Transformation-796:
Yep and Kirchner i fear is there to stay. Heyneke coached Coetzee at Tukkies to kick up and unders until Carlos Spencer spotted the kid playing in the VC and pulled him to the Lions. Rate this kid very highly, reminds me a little of James O Connor, great feet, big boot, elusive and for a kid that aint massively built he is deceptively strong.
27 Aug 2012, 23:19 pm
Lmao – fkn looney tunes – I dunno where u get that **** from.
27 Aug 2012, 23:21 pm
@fitz1ella-798:
> some people today still swear the tutu’s are all knowing next to
Desmond or Trevor?
27 Aug 2012, 23:21 pm
from Disneyland .. where else ?
27 Aug 2012, 23:22 pm
Yes I think so – but believe it – fkn mal.
27 Aug 2012, 23:23 pm
@grant10-781: those players are available
27 Aug 2012, 23:30 pm
wait till a tutu come smack you across the back of your head and ask why the fck you been so fast asleep for the last 200 millennia.. then maybe you suddenly catch a wake up.
27 Aug 2012, 23:34 pm
@fitz1ella-806:
The only tutu’s I’ve seen were on ballerinas, and they were a bit to skinny for my taste except one
27 Aug 2012, 23:36 pm
@pat1-800:
I chuck him straight into Boks he’s at least a few billion light years ahead of Kirchner..
he’s our version of Christian Cullen .. before they go and coach all his natural talent out of him.. par for the g’damn course in this country… kick and bloody chase till the moo leaves the cow in the meadow chasing moonbeams up shadows in Commissioner street.
27 Aug 2012, 23:39 pm
@victoriabok-807: geez some ballerina’s can be goddamn beautiful.. only they way too highly strung… I reckon your Heyneke should take up ballet get rid of some of that severely strung out pent up emotional energy. Its way more demanding than rugby.. any ballerina will tell you that for free.
27 Aug 2012, 23:40 pm
Yeah but first ones have to actually be receptive to looney tunes so u could speaka da lingo and that would mean watching alotta looney toons cartoons, so I reckon that smack pass right overhead, ignorance is bliss..
27 Aug 2012, 23:44 pm
thats the state of homosapien.. remain ignorant.. thinking he’s in bliss.. meanwhile he’s in outright misery.
tra la la la lala live for today.. thats your motto and your memory .. tra la la la lala live for today
27 Aug 2012, 23:47 pm
enough of the balderdash
g’night
27 Aug 2012, 23:48 pm
Ain’t that how it’s all designed by the great spirit in da peace pipe that the tutus channel on their rocket carpets?
27 Aug 2012, 23:49 pm
@fitz1ella-809:
> geez some ballerina’s can be goddamn beautiful..
Have you seen their toes?
Due to the wooden insert in their shoes their toes are fugly
27 Aug 2012, 23:49 pm
I better go – sum funny ****
WTF do you get this stuff from?
27 Aug 2012, 23:50 pm
its all designed for a purpose.. long as you know what yours is.
time out .. kali nigta
27 Aug 2012, 23:56 pm
Last public update on Juan Smith I recall was this one (out till 2013) 2012-04-04 08:08 Cape Town – Springbok and Cheetahs flank Juan Smith has taken an indefinite break from rugby due to an ongoing Achilles injury.The 30-year-old told the Volksblad newspaper in an exclusive interview that he won’t play rugby this year.Smith injured his Achilles playing for the Cheetahs in a Super Rugby game against the Bulls on 25 February last year. Since then he’s missed the Springboks’ World Cup campaign last year and hasn’t featured in this year’s Super Rugby competition.Smith has since had four operations and was understandably very upset with the current state of the injury.”The right thing to do now is to give my injury sufficient time to heal 100%,” said Smith.Cheetahs coach, Naka Drotské, is shattered by the news. “Juan is the best No 7 flank in world rugby. He was also our captain over the last few years and to lose him is a huge setback.”It will be really difficult to replace a world class player like him.”Smith has now set his sights on returning stronger than ever in the 2013 season.His injury will also be a big blow to new Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer. Even though the Boks boast really good loose forwards, they are sure to miss Smith’s ball-carrying ability, lineout prowess and leadership.
28 Aug 2012, 02:08 am
Evolution is in order. When a company performs poorly and does so bad that they need to cut jobs what do they do?
They drop the people on the font line, the very people who dont make the poor decissions and have nothing to do with a company performing badly. Management under preasure will never put up their hand and say, I need to go. So the wrong people go and the wrong people say, and the kak continues.
SA Rugby as a company need to focus on a long run strategy that educates coaches at a level unseen and unheard of in SA. A level higher than high. Something not just better than what they have, but leaps and bounds better than what they have. This level then, should be an entry level for provincial coaches.
Meyer, is the new kid on the block, he is still learning and the extra pressure and public notice is something he needs to adjust to, which is normal really. So he has anxiety himself, so it is going to take a while before the structures fall inplace.
If we talk about the backline issues, dont we have a ” great setup”? Or is it the story of the old dog learns no new tricks, he is set in his ways…Crumbs
They should spend a bit of time in 7′s rugby, they are really effing poo.
And that Habanana fella, … i dont know.
Macaw and Carter “might” make it to the next world cup, but i recon they will be the Jon Smit of SA Rugby. too much respect and too little balls. They might fill their places but wont be the players they were when peaking.
28 Aug 2012, 03:05 am
@YoMama-608: hehehehehehe, world domination. lol
28 Aug 2012, 03:16 am
Plenty violence on the streets of Cape Town today. Cape Gangs attacked ANCYL in Salt River.
28 Aug 2012, 04:35 am
Another ‘season ending’ thumb injury, this time the prop from the Cheetahs Nyakana
The List included:
Spies – thumb
JPP -Thumb
Chiliboy -hand
Kolisie -Thumb
Nyakana – thumb
Interesting?
28 Aug 2012, 05:49 am
only thing more predictable than our rugga right now is keohane changing his tunes and making a u-turn on the coach when things go sour….
this little character is changes like the wind…should have been running for us president…
28 Aug 2012, 06:08 am
I take that back. Nobody more predictable than kirchner.
Catch, run 15m fwd, kick in air, run like dom doos after ball.
28 Aug 2012, 07:02 am
Bekker must go, inAfrikaans they call him a Slenter. And he’s bad at both. Need specialist outside centre, de Jongh has great potential. Need 8th man, Dewalt Potgieter has more talent and can catch, will take pressure off Hougaard. Flyhalf and fullback need to be replaced, Morne and Zane are steady at best, no creativity from either, bit like an electronic drummer in a rock band. We’ve got Lambie, Jantjies Steyn. My choice would be Lambie starting Jantjies on bench de Villiers inside centre de Jongh outside and wings the same. Steyn at fullback
28 Aug 2012, 08:31 am
Am I right in saying that Rassie was a retreaded 7 that was forced to play 6 to make the run-on team for the Boks? And since he has been coaching Burger, initially awesome at 6 he has lost all his fetcher abilities and playing on the wrong side of the scrum, while the best fetcher in the team runs at blindsider. Now advising for the Boks we are playing without a fetcher again, and in fact three 7s in the same pack. Is Rassie the cause of all the problems? Were WP happy to see the back of him?
28 Aug 2012, 08:33 am
How about:
9. Sarel
10. Goosen
11. Hougaard
12. Ebersohn
13. JP
14. Le Roux
15. Frans
28 Aug 2012, 09:44 am
@Hondo-821: NO DOOS, chiliboy – KNEE, a f.cuking KNEE!
Spies – LEFT RING finger!
earlier this year Kankowski – Thumb
28 Aug 2012, 10:36 am
After many years of watching SA rugby and being puzzled at the awful, old fashioned way of playing and poor use of the very deep talent pool (surely the deepest in the world), I have come to realise that the SA smash bash & kick way of playing is ABSOLUTELY INGRAINED into the SA psyche. It cannot be changed.
Part of the problem is that from time to time this kind of play does win big games against more skilled teams. Not often – but occasionally – when it all goes well – and the opposition have a bad day. Take the 2007 World Cup. Winning this competition with these methods further cemented into the SA psyche this style of play.
So the outlook is not good – SA rugby simply CANNOT change. It is a deeply ingrained cultural thing. SA could be the best in the world but probably never will again be consistently the best in the world. The win-loss percentage will remain about 60% with a very dated game plan.
28 Aug 2012, 10:41 am
Further to my comment above – all rugby playing nations believe that big men generally make better players than shorter or smaller men in most positions. But most rugby playing nations believe that very skilled smaller players can bring something very valuable to a team. Most in SA rugby just can’t see this and are absolutely obsessed with size. I have come to realise that this is an absolutely ingrained cultural thing and cannot be changed.
The outlook for SA rugby is predictable – the win ration will remain at only around 60%. There is no way of changing this because of the deeply ingrained attitudes.
28 Aug 2012, 11:29 am
One terrible fact remains, the BOKS have never done well under an afrikaans coach, they have always flourished under an english speaking coach. I fear the same is going to happen here!!
For all of HMs good qualities he maybe found out at international level.
Robbie Deans is not doing well either but is/was a phenominal S15 coach
28 Aug 2012, 11:38 am
Delki #828 – Your comments about Jake Whites Boks are very wrong. White was one of the few Bok coaches to get the Boks playing exciting expansive rugby whilst keeping their rock solid defense. Under White the Boks scored many tries. It was a similar story under Mallet and Christie.
THe biggest problem with the Boks is that they have never flourished under an Afrikaans coach, although most of the team is made up of Afrikaners, they have always done better under an english speaking coach. Which have been Christie, Mallet and White. The rest have been well under par.
28 Aug 2012, 11:43 am
“It is easy to throw players out and pick new ones, but that is not coaching, that is picking,” Meyer told reporters at OR Tambo airport on Monday.
So okes can ease up, the course is set and he will try to drill square pegs into round holes, period.
NZ/Aus can sleep peacefully. Maybe even Europeans.
28 Aug 2012, 11:53 am
@Nils-832: judging by the last few years, it appears that it is actually incredibly difficult to drop players and pick new ones
28 Aug 2012, 11:59 am
@fantasticbarnsmell-833: Yup, if facts contradicts belief, screw the facts.
28 Aug 2012, 12:13 pm
The Boks do not have a kick-and-chase game plan. They use that tactic as do the Argies, ABs and Wallabies or do you guys all watch these games with your eyes closed? The reason why it doesn’t look like the Boks are attacking is because of 9-10. As for other supposedly mediocre players, well the injury list is incredibly long and will rectify itself.
28 Aug 2012, 12:34 pm
@STBUR-835: The difference is the other teams have a few other tricks and tactics as well
We have fuckall else in our handbag.
28 Aug 2012, 12:35 pm
@garth-825: No you are wrong.
Rassie was a 6 at provincial and national level. He believes that the fetching role can be done by any of the loose-forwards, ie. that a 8 could be the fetcher.
28 Aug 2012, 12:36 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-836: It’s damn annoying. Our players CAN play into space, etc. The game plans just don’t allow them to do so.
28 Aug 2012, 13:16 pm
I think JPP is the answer at 15 for the Boks
28 Aug 2012, 14:00 pm
the unbearable shackles of being…
28 Aug 2012, 16:20 pm
ANALYST.GROW UP?How does a spelling error make me immature?
If anything is Freudian it is the first 4 letters of you nic.
You seem to have appointed yourself as an expert on all matters.
F.O..you suppurating chancre.
28 Aug 2012, 20:58 pm
@trupisero-454: “How many Bulls caps do you have Pat?”
Bwaaahaaaahaaa. Very well said.
28 Aug 2012, 21:16 pm
Amazing. Argentina have pulled sofar the result of the season and guess what, the BBC still have not mentioned it at all, as if the game never happened.
Now that’s a professional sports news site.
28 Aug 2012, 23:13 pm
We need a no nonsense coach..that can b friends
With The team but, when it comes down to business he wont b afraid to drop ppl.
29 Aug 2012, 08:34 am
@ryecatcher-841:
ryecatcher. I said nothing about your spelling – you obviously have a problem with it yourself.
The need for you to start referring to ‘anal’ is clearly very childish, don’t you think? I am sure everyone else on this blog thinks that it is childish.
About supposedly having ‘appointed myself an exert on all matters’, I have an opinion, like most people who come here to blog and put their opinions here as a discussion.
You obviously are too lazy or to busy thinking about all things ‘anal’ to bother to have an intelligent opinion here.
Or maybe you are just plain DUMB.
29 Aug 2012, 09:15 am
ANALYST.You a ccused me of being childish because of a spelling error.
I can assure you that I am neither lazy or dumb.How you a ssumed a
Freudian slip from a spelling error is beyond me.
I am not obsessed with anything anal.You brought it up.
By the way,do i assume that anyone who starts his posts with
“guys,guys,guys”is a scout master with all of its nasty connotations.
Remember it was you who started this fight.
29 Aug 2012, 09:21 am
@ryecatcher-846:
Please go back and quote the post # and words where I accuse you of a spelling error.
I am waiting.
29 Aug 2012, 09:58 am
@Gazelle-844: well that rules out Mitchell then as every team he coaches appears to hate him
@Nils-843: well spotted, poor show!
29 Aug 2012, 10:05 am
ST 683 I compliment you on your post 585.3 Words.”Amen to that.”
Unfortunately address you as ALALYST.Otherwise see nothing contentious.
POST 685 Make correction.
POST687.You make reference to A FREUDIAN SLIP and SHOWING
MY TRUE COLOURS.
If not to the spelling error of your nic then what.?
To my message of 3 words? You then tell me to grow up
Who the hell do you think you are?
29 Aug 2012, 10:27 am
ANALYST.I AM WAITING.
29 Aug 2012, 10:39 am
ANALYST.STILL WAITING.
29 Aug 2012, 10:40 am
ANALYST.CAT GOT YOUR TONGUE.
29 Aug 2012, 10:43 am
ANALYST.NOTHING I DESPISE LESS THAN A BULLY.
COME ON MAN.GROW UP AND REPLY.
29 Aug 2012, 11:00 am
ANALYST.Too small a person to admit to being wrong?
STILL WAITING.
29 Aug 2012, 11:52 am
ANALYST.OVER AN HOUR NOW.RESPOND.ABSENCE OF “PLEASE”
INTENTIONAL
29 Aug 2012, 12:01 pm
WTF is going on here?
29 Aug 2012, 12:05 pm
DAWN.How are you.?Just a fracas with a bully.
Keep well.
29 Aug 2012, 16:39 pm
haha didnt take keo very long to bring the knives out!! wolf in sheeps clothes
macbeth continues with his poison. Swimming is gainnig momentum maybe you should ply your trade somewhere else!!
30 Aug 2012, 01:03 am
using foul language in your posts indicates you are a psychopath, a new study shows. The research by London’s Online Privacy…
30 Aug 2012, 01:36 am
@AiDoc-859:
Yeah and studies show that butter is bad for you and then it’s not and then marg is good and then its not………..blah blah blah………who did the study? some English poff who does not live in the real world?
Bollocks I say
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