Duane’s day to remember
29 Aug 2012
Duane Vermeulen is finally a Springbok and one of two uncapped players for the Rugby Championship tour to Australia and New Zealand.
Johan Goosen is the other newbie, with recalls for Juan de Jongh and Bath-based Francois Louw.
‘Untimely injuries to Bismarck du Plessis, Chiliboy Ralepelle, Pierre Spies, JP Pietersen and Bjorn Basson have already hit us hard in the past few weeks. This again provides opportunities for other players to put up their hands,’ said Bok coach Heyneke Meyer.
‘We were very keen to give Siya Kolisi an opportunity on this tour, but he is also out injured, alongside a list of other injured or unavailable forwards that include Gurthrö Steenkamp, Heinrich Brüssow, Schalk Burger, Juan Smith and Ryan Kankowski.’
Meyer confirmed he would have selected Vermeulen and Goosen in his initial Test squad but for injury to both players.
‘I regard both of them as world-class rugby players. If it wasn’t for injuries, Duane would have been a Springbok long ago. I also believe Johan has a long career ahead of him at Test match level and we will expose him when and how we feel it will benefit the player and the team best.
‘Both Juan and Francois played at the Rugby World Cup last year and are experienced players. Juan covers both positions in the midfield and we opted for Francois because he is a specialist openside flanker, in the absence of Schalk, Heinrich and Siya, that can cover blindside and No 8 as well, while he is also a very useful option in the lineout.
‘I’m also very excited with the quality of young talent coming through – Eben, Marcell and Johan are all still U21 and that bodes well for the future of Springbok rugby.’
Springbok squad – Willem Alberts, Andries Bekker, Craig Burden, Pat Cilliers, Marcell Coetzee, Juan de Jongh, Jean de Villiers (c), Jannie du Plessis, Eben Etzebeth, Johan Goosen, Dean Greyling, Bryan Habana, Francois Hougaard, Zane Kirchner, Juandré Kruger, Pat Lambie, Tiaan Liebenberg, Francois Louw, Tendai Mtawarira, Lwazi Mvovo, Ruan Pienaar, Jacques Potgieter, Frans Steyn, Morné Steyn, Adriaan Strauss, Flip van der Merwe, Jano Vermaak, Duane Vermeulen.
656 Comments
29 Aug 2012, 11:55 am
Interesting to see what the team will look like… Potgieter will surely get the axe,although I cannot see HM having the barls to drop Morne…
29 Aug 2012, 12:04 pm
Oi you morons! Where the heck did the comments just go! Blithering bunch of twits.
29 Aug 2012, 12:05 pm
Grant: reckon Lambie will be returned to the starting lineup with JdJ there as centre cover on the bench.
Flow is an interesting addition. Reckon bench with Daniels in the starting line-up.
29 Aug 2012, 12:07 pm
Could do with pulling Big Joe back as well – had a stomper last time in Dunedin
29 Aug 2012, 12:07 pm
Glad to see Louw has been included. Vermeulen and Goosen should have been selected for the home leg against ABs and Aus !! They need more Currie Cup game time. Having said, I know they deserve to be there bit this was too soon IMO. Desperate times call for desperate measures
29 Aug 2012, 12:08 pm
what would be the ideal back three from this squad? vermeulen/alberts/flow? or without the fetcher, vermeulen/alberts/coetzee?
29 Aug 2012, 12:09 pm
I don’t see JJ’s name here?
29 Aug 2012, 12:09 pm
Hell this is an extremely young Springbok team !
29 Aug 2012, 12:09 pm
There are three uncapped players, not two.
Vermeulen
Goosen
And the one you forgot, Jano Vermaak
29 Aug 2012, 12:09 pm
Alberts will go back to flank. No.8 will be interesting. Will he push Duane straight into the starting line up?
Backline won’t change, except maybe Pienaar for Hougaard and Engelbrecht for Mvovo. Possibly Lambie for Kirchner, but I doubt it.
29 Aug 2012, 12:09 pm
Well atleast the Sharks have gotten Daniel back, @mikeybrass-3:
Lambie wont start boet,
29 Aug 2012, 12:10 pm
So what happened to our posts? Suddenly new heading and posts just disappear?
29 Aug 2012, 12:10 pm
@fantasticbarnsmell-6: Vermeulen, Alberts, Flo with Coetzee on the bench.
29 Aug 2012, 12:10 pm
@mikeybrass-2:
Weren’t there about 10 already?
29 Aug 2012, 12:10 pm
@sharks_lover-11: Lambie should start, with the Goose on the bench.
29 Aug 2012, 12:11 pm
@fantasticbarnsmell-6: Great chance for DV to make a claim to the No 8 position …..
29 Aug 2012, 12:11 pm
JJ Engelbrecht?
29 Aug 2012, 12:11 pm
Think that is a low blow to drop Keegan. Very disappointed. Why the heck that Potgieter oke still there?
29 Aug 2012, 12:12 pm
JJE dropped. See JdJ is selected. So the rumour of Venter adn Serfontein was just that a rumour.
29 Aug 2012, 12:12 pm
@katman-13:
I don’t see a starting loose trio that’s two thirds changed from the previous one.
To radical a change going into the Australia game.
Probably just a new 8, with Alberts going back to flank.
29 Aug 2012, 12:12 pm
@katman-13: Personally, I’d prefer Alberts to stay at 8, with Flo and Coetzee on the sides. But I think Meyer will slot Duanne in there, as per my combo at 12.
29 Aug 2012, 12:12 pm
Does this whole squad travel to Aus and NZ?
Or is this just a greater squad with some culling just before the tour?
29 Aug 2012, 12:12 pm
About time! Vermeulen will make a diff to SA rugby fact, and further down the line Goosen will be a permanent at 10
29 Aug 2012, 12:13 pm
@Puma-19:
Tank Lanning lost the plot a long time ago. This rumour of his was just the latest of his weird *** speculative comments.
29 Aug 2012, 12:13 pm
Hopefull Duane and Johan will play and not only be there as window dressers
29 Aug 2012, 12:13 pm
@Tacitus-20: Meyer knows they got hammered with turnovers at the breakdown. I expect he’s planning on using Flo.
29 Aug 2012, 12:14 pm
Keegs dropped
29 Aug 2012, 12:14 pm
@willievz-15: Should be like that but Meyer will never ever drop Morne. Morne has had years to prove he should be there. He has not been great since 2010 and is STILL there.
Should be Lambie and Goosen on the bench. Very much doubt we will see that.
29 Aug 2012, 12:14 pm
Against the Ausies, HM will play
Coetzee
Alberts
Daniel
Against the Kiwis, he’ll play
Coetzee
Alberts
Vermuelen.
29 Aug 2012, 12:14 pm
@Puma-18: I agree with Keegan – should not have been dropped !! IMO, seeing that Vermeulen is there, he should start otherwise he should have stayed at home and play CC
29 Aug 2012, 12:14 pm
Glad Francois Louw is there. Really surprised about Vermeulen and Goosen. Neither looked 100% in their first CC games back. Then again the Bok injury list is horrific.
29 Aug 2012, 12:14 pm
@Transformation-27: Feel for him. Really do. Why is that useless Potgieter still there?
29 Aug 2012, 12:14 pm
@Transformation-27:
Oh shite didnt even see that.
29 Aug 2012, 12:15 pm
@fogdog10-23:
I love these “About time” comments.
Both Vermeulen and Goosen were still injured a week ago. They’ve had one Currie Cup game and probably aren’t even ready yet.
And yet, people moan about them not being picked sooner.
Classic.
29 Aug 2012, 12:15 pm
Sorry boys Dunedin is going to be pay back all the way – if we dont beat the Boks with a 20 point margin i will be highly surprised , up front there is such a lack of experience and leadership that it is frightning – good luck !
29 Aug 2012, 12:15 pm
Is Brussow still injured, or simply not selected?
29 Aug 2012, 12:15 pm
@Puma-19: Keegan also dropped, Well its good for the Sharks, PIty we didnt get Burden and Lambie too
Trust me neither will be in the team of 22
Lambie could use the game time to regain his form playing at 10
29 Aug 2012, 12:16 pm
@willievz-36: Injured according to the press
29 Aug 2012, 12:16 pm
Cant believe old Floppy Potgieter is still there.
Never seen a more ineffectual blindsider in my life.
29 Aug 2012, 12:16 pm
@stew-8: Frightening.
29 Aug 2012, 12:17 pm
@sharks_lover-38: Thanks.
F.Louw is a class selection in his absence.
29 Aug 2012, 12:17 pm
@CharlesM-30: From what I have heard from everyone here that watched the Province game. Vermuelen is not ready yet nor is Goosen. Read Naka said he is no where near ready. If he is thrown into the deep end and messes up this will dent his confidence for sure. Both players should have had the next two cc games to get ready for the home series.
Why now Keegan? Damn man, he was far better than Potgieter. Crash ball here we come. Dumb dumb rugby.
29 Aug 2012, 12:17 pm
@Puma-42: now = no
29 Aug 2012, 12:17 pm
Against Aussies i would start F Louw, Coetzee and Daniels with Alberts and Vermulen on the bench……gives the Boks lots of speed in the backrow +3 lineout options and also very strong bench though the tight 5 is very light on experience considering i would also start EZtebeth and Kruger as locks ,Bekker drops out pf 22..
Against AB i would start Vermulen at 8 with KD on the bench
29 Aug 2012, 12:17 pm
the AB’s have this series tied up and the probability of losing with “conservative” selections appears to be pretty high anyway, so why not take some risks and try out different players. if we lose to Aus with a team like last week the media and general public would be far more unforgiving than if he at least tried replacing a few under performing players with untested equivalents…
29 Aug 2012, 12:18 pm
@Puma-42: Nor him or Goosen looked anywhere near ready, Grant10 felt the same way,
But hey these players did not select themselves, hopefully they fit and ready
29 Aug 2012, 12:19 pm
@mikeybrass-3: F Louw must start…..must! He is a true opensider,,,, second only to Brussow imo….I am ecstati… so happy with the players added….cant believe how thrilled I am….great, great stuff !!
29 Aug 2012, 12:19 pm
@sharks_lover-37: I doubt Burden will play at all or Lambie. They going to be tourists or ride the bench.
Jeez I feel for Keegan. What a bloody snub and to have that useless Potgieter there. Unbelievable.
29 Aug 2012, 12:19 pm
I think Meyer has realised that he needs players that can play to the ball hence the inclusion of Flow. He might go straight into the startling line-up.
I don’t think Meyer will change the back line, but I would definitely start with Pienaar. The only two changes I see is Louw in for Potgieter and Pienaar, maybe for Hougaard.
29 Aug 2012, 12:20 pm
Vermuelen should have replaced Potgieter. Like for like.
Daniel should still be there.
29 Aug 2012, 12:20 pm
@Puma-42:
Calm down.
Keegan was on borrowed time. He is too small.
Vermeulen and Goosen will probably be familiarized with the Bok playing pattern over the next week, and subjected to the attentions of the Bok fitness coach.
I doubt they’ll start against the Aussies. But they must be there to play a role against the All Blacks a week later.
As for Lambie – Meyer doesn’t rate him as his number 1 or 2 choice flyhalf. Deal with it.
29 Aug 2012, 12:21 pm
Great news to see Francois Louw there.
I know Heyneke doesn’t believe in fetchers under the new rules, but a 112kg fetcher/hybrid loose forward will come in very handy for the Boks. The breakdown was a huge problem this last 2 tests and I believe Louw will be able to turn it around.
I am very worried about Goosen and Vermeulen. Vermeulen has not regained his fitness at all and Goosen looked very rusty in his first game back, I hope they only go along to get used to the squad and not get to much game time.
29 Aug 2012, 12:21 pm
Happy with F Louw being there.
Good addition.
29 Aug 2012, 12:21 pm
Well done to all 3.Duanne needs to get fit quickly.
6 Louw Then Daniels
7 Alberts Then Coetzee
8 Vermeulen The entire game.
29 Aug 2012, 12:21 pm
K. Daniels may be a bit light to be a starter but hell he’s more productive in 20 min than Jacque Whiplash Myself Potgieter is in 80.
29 Aug 2012, 12:22 pm
goosen and vermeulen need more game time. you could not start vermeulen and alberts as one is not fit (duane) and alberts is not fit enough to go 80 mins against aussie. he is a 50-60 min player at test level in my opinion. or a super sub to run at/over tiring defences.
29 Aug 2012, 12:22 pm
Jeepers, JJ & Keegan out but that apocalyptic half-wit Potgieter stays?? He must be a proper lapdog!
29 Aug 2012, 12:22 pm
@realkenyan-44: KD is out mate, he cannot play if he aint there lol
29 Aug 2012, 12:23 pm
Tacitus 34 – About time was referring to Duane, who for the past couple years has been the best 8 in SA and we have stuck with Spies who is Sh*t! I didnt really think he would get picked as he has just returned to action. So “about time” means the selectors are finally given him a chance which i think is the right decision
29 Aug 2012, 12:23 pm
@John Galt-53:
Agree, and he must start otherwise it’s a wasted pick.
29 Aug 2012, 12:23 pm
Franks 36 caps , Mealamu 95 , Woodcock 87, Whitelock 30 , Retalik 5 , McCaw 108 , Read 40 , Vito 15
Doesnt seem fair
29 Aug 2012, 12:23 pm
@Atreides-57:
I didn’t see the game on Saturday, but I read somewhere that Potgieter had the highest amount of tackles among the loose forwards. Apparently he didn’t have as bad a game as Alberts or Coetsee against the Argies?
29 Aug 2012, 12:24 pm
@Pypkan-52:
Agreed with regard to Vermuelen and Goosen.
I wonder if any of these squad players will be released for CC duty this weekend.
You’d think HM would be wanting some players to get at least 1 more game in before touring.
29 Aug 2012, 12:24 pm
@sharks_lover-46: I will always support our team. I know players don’t select themselves. Just feel for Keegan being dropped. He was better than Potgieter. Potgieter to me is just a passenger.
Read many say that Vermuelen was not ready or Goosen. Naka said Goosen should play another two cc games to be ready and not to throw the youngster in yet but wait for the home series. Wise I think.
So looks like our loose trio will be:
Vermuelen
Alberts
Louw
Not sure what to make of it. I know we need a fetcher so Louw selection makes sense. Vermuelen according to many was not up to it in the last two cc games. Then he could just pick it up in training who knows.
29 Aug 2012, 12:24 pm
@John Galt-63:
One more chance for injury before the tour, you mean.
29 Aug 2012, 12:25 pm
@John Galt-22: they all tour…all 28
29 Aug 2012, 12:25 pm
Vermeulen is certainly a prospect BUT as per Saturdays game IS NOT READY/ FIT! Josh Strauss should be there at least as a stop gap to replace useless Potgieter. Josh breaks the gainline EVERY time and scores a fair amount of tries. Would also be good Forward leadership in the absence of Bizzie etc. Oh well, we can dream can we not?
29 Aug 2012, 12:25 pm
I just wish I looked and never saw Morne’s name. He should have been dropped.
29 Aug 2012, 12:25 pm
The Goose @10
Lambie @15
Juandre @ 5
Fourie WP as hooker/fetcher
29 Aug 2012, 12:26 pm
@Tacitus-51: He’s got more dynamism, mongrel and heart in one finger than Spies has in his entire body, and more accuracy than that neanderthal throwback Potgieter any day, or Alberts these days
But ja, didn’t you know, the AB’s absolutely K AK themselves at how big these okes are! Lol
Yep & Lambie def not the answer if we want to play 30-year-old rugby with no ideas, originality, or a backline.
29 Aug 2012, 12:27 pm
@Atreides-70:
I sense a bit of bitterness there. Or am I imagining it..
29 Aug 2012, 12:27 pm
@wpstormerbok-55:
Agreed.
Have you noticed how Potgieter tries to clear rucks or make tackles only to bounce himself or make absolutely no impact and slowly slide off the ruck. Like a cartoon character.
Only reason he looks remotely busy is because of his ridiculous hair.
29 Aug 2012, 12:27 pm
Caveat re.Fourie.Will have to improve his lineout throwing in.
29 Aug 2012, 12:28 pm
Vermeulen and Goosen should not have gone…..should have played CC…
BUT!!! what a great move by HM in selecting F Louw….
For me that shows he has seen the error of his ways and is prepared to be flexible….
I am a very happy camper…
would always have F Louw and Brussow in my squad.
So JJ Engelbrecht and Keegan dropped? Any more dropped?
I would start with Lambie at 10
F Louw at 6….
But most importantly for me , as a fan, is I have renewed faith in HM….he has shown he is not closed to change….thank the Angels of Mercy!!
29 Aug 2012, 12:28 pm
@Tacitus-65: No man Tac,
Everyone here says they were not ready yet after playing two cc games. They just may get another game who knows. I will not be surprised to see all these names playing CC this weekend before they tour:
Lambie
Burden
Vermuelen
Goosen
All need game time.
29 Aug 2012, 12:28 pm
Sorry.Fourie not in squad.
29 Aug 2012, 12:29 pm
@Atreides-70: Exactly, Lambie is no Skop and jAg Artist, was seriously hoping Lambie and BUrden would also get dropped, whats the Point of 4 Hookers there???
29 Aug 2012, 12:29 pm
So the Bulls gain JJ Engelbrecht for this weekends game, while WP loses De Jong and Vermeulen.
That’s how it goes in life, folks..
29 Aug 2012, 12:30 pm
@Tacitus-62: Tackle count doesn’t tell you close to the whole story.
How many turn overs? How many times did he drive back the ball carrier? How many tackles did he break, running metres, or offloads in the tackle?
He’s more lig-innie-broek than Daniels, just the flying greasy locks make him look busy. No accuracy, the argies didn’t fear him in the slightest and you can be damn sure the AB’s aren’t losing a minute’s sleep over his physical threat either.
29 Aug 2012, 12:31 pm
@grant10-74: No just those two dropped. Damn shame for Keegan feel bad for him really. That useless Potgieter should have been dropped instead. Wish I never saw Morne’s name as well. Looks like we stuck with him until Goosen can get ready. Then we need to move Lambie to fb if we want to have a attacking game eventually. Zane too just up and under all the time. Not good enough at fb. Lambie though is a better fh than fb.
Players selected still tell me. Crash ball and kick and kick game plan.
29 Aug 2012, 12:31 pm
i know it sounds crazy but i would have considered trying Elton at 10 and Lambie at 15 for the next game against Aus
29 Aug 2012, 12:32 pm
@Puma-80:
We’re not going to change the gameplan Heyneke has been preparing since he was appointed 6 months ago, midway through the Tri Nations. Better accept that.
29 Aug 2012, 12:32 pm
@sharks_lover-58: lol just realized that now..glad am not the coach though hard decisions to make and the SA fans demand instant results
29 Aug 2012, 12:32 pm
@grant10-47: remember i said FLouw was available and playing in Plod’s match?
29 Aug 2012, 12:32 pm
STEW @ 8.
Some of them will still be very young at next world cup.And with 3
more years of experience.Well done H.M.
29 Aug 2012, 12:32 pm
Remember what happened last time Louw was selected on the overseas leg of the Trinations?
29 Aug 2012, 12:33 pm
@Tacitus-78: Ja think Meyer has his eyes on the Bulls CC team too. He took Burden out on a tour of Arg just when we were going to play Bulls in the CC……lol. Now Bulls playing Province no JdJ and Vermuelen and Bulls get JJE back.
Look don’t be surprised if Vermuelen gets game time this Saturday in the CC. Though the squad might be leaving by then. So probably not.
29 Aug 2012, 12:33 pm
@Tacitus-71: Nope not at all bud, I’m not even a shark fan, but Meyer has guys who will die for this jersey, and they’re ignored because they don’t fit into some ridiculous mythical eugenics schoolboy superhero-comic-book fantasy formula he has in his head.
29 Aug 2012, 12:33 pm
@grant10-74: Grant i also think its a step in the right direction but flouw at 6?? he never ever played there, he played 7,
8 Alberts
7 Flouw
6 Coetzee
Lambie wont play boet, i can guarentee you that,
29 Aug 2012, 12:34 pm
@super_adi-86:
Yes. Louw is not the answer. He is a backup option, but the loose trio for next week should be Alberts, Coetsee and maybe Vermeulen, if he is up to it.
Don’t understand why Gurthro and Kankowski aren’t there. Aren’t clubs forced to release players for the Tri Nations if called up by their national teams?
29 Aug 2012, 12:34 pm
Tacitus – I’ll give you just one example (restricting myself to physique only) . Keegan is about the same size as marty holah. Did you ever see Holah play, or a player like neil back. Your size argument is empty
I note you are silent on JJE’s axing , arguably the only in form bull that HM selected
29 Aug 2012, 12:35 pm
@Tacitus-82: Meyer has been preparing this game plan since 2000. Nothing has changed. We will get slaughtered playing this dumb, dumb backward game plan. I hope I am wrong. I want to be wrong as I want our Boks to beat everyone out there. Like our cricket team is doing with a coach with brains.
29 Aug 2012, 12:35 pm
@sharks_lover-77:
4 hookers?
29 Aug 2012, 12:35 pm
Am I going bonkers ?? I thought HM said we could “…only travel with 26 players…” when we went to Argentina ?? This squad is 28 so presumably 2 of them won’t go ?? or can we add 2 becuase we are playing two matches as opposed to only the one in Arg……confusing !
Agree too soon for Goosen and DV both need more game time before being thrown to the wolverines…..
HM could ruin Goosen for good if he chucks him in too soon and, if he’s not gonna play, then why pick him at all right now ?? Give the poor oke a chance to regain some confidence and shake off the rust after a heckofalong layoff for injury……
Not really surprising that Keegan D has been left out ‘cos he doesn’t fit HM’s idea of “big” loosies. Not saying he is right (cos I don’t think he is !!) but he’s said that’s what he wants…
JDJ is like a rubber ball…in, then out, then in again…..seems a straight swop for JJE but JDJ should have been there ahead of JJ in any event, IMHO…..
Brussouw – injured or “unavailable” ?? If he wasn’t one of these, would HM have picked him ?? He’s already said that HB doesn’t “fit” (too small ??)
29 Aug 2012, 12:36 pm
Great incoming players. Really happy that Heynek’es roped Flouw in too. Perfect cover until Brussouw recovers fitness.
29 Aug 2012, 12:36 pm
Didn,t pick up on Keegan being dropped.
29 Aug 2012, 12:36 pm
@Puma-92: Up-an-undering 85% of your ball, box-kicking another 10% and then hoping for the best does not constitute a game plan
29 Aug 2012, 12:37 pm
At least the penny seem to be dropping regarding the selection of Flow, and the essential competing for the ball on the ground: That’s where 90% of test matches are won and lost.
Pity every SA coach first has to reinvent the wheel all over again, trying to run through brick walls with 3 brick outhouses as loose forwards. Whoever comes after HM will try it again.
On the other hand, we’ll probably see Klipgooier Potgieter starting vs. Aus
29 Aug 2012, 12:39 pm
@Tacitus-71: are these Sharks fans louder in their shrieks than the province supporters?
be honest?
29 Aug 2012, 12:40 pm
@sharks_lover-89: Meyer will have Goosen on the bench and give him game time. What does that say to Lambie? He should just have been released and come back and played CC for Sharks. Unless Meyer plays him instead of Zane who is also not great at all. Solid but that where it ends. Up and unders coming all day long. That is it.
I would not even mind if Meyer played Goosen at 10 with Lambie at 15 with JdJ at outside centre. Then we might be heading in the right direction. HE wont though. Some player are going on tour or to sit on the bench for 80min.
29 Aug 2012, 12:40 pm
@Stiff-arm-98: Does this now end the debate of FETCHER v NOFETCHER
29 Aug 2012, 12:41 pm
I’ll have freakin goosebumps when Goosen makes his Bok debut. But I definitely only as a sub and phased in gradually.
29 Aug 2012, 12:41 pm
@Atreides-97: Exactly. It is brainless.
29 Aug 2012, 12:41 pm
@Puma-100: Agreeing with this…
29 Aug 2012, 12:41 pm
@sharks_lover-77: where do you see 4 hookers? are you at mavericks?
29 Aug 2012, 12:43 pm
@grant10-47: Yes mate, also really happy now- Flouw was a critical piece of the puzzle in Brussouw’s absense. Go Heineke ! And Vermuelen and Goosen, Yaaaaay/
29 Aug 2012, 12:43 pm
i dont understand this Keegan potgieter debate. Keegan played an anonymous game at Newlands. He was subsequently relegated to the bench. He came on for marcell who contributed very little in Mendoza. He showed some individual skill with his good hands and chip chick which was all he did somehow he is now the answer. Potgieter who i feel is not the greatest 7 nor at his age will he rise to any exiting highs did actually play better than his two loose forward team mates. Alberts and coetzee were nowhere near him in tackle count not meters gained. He made more tackles than any other player on the bok team and apart from estebeth looked like he wanted to be there… yet the rest of the forwards seem to get no criticism even when they all contributed far less????
Its not as if Keegan played brilliantly and potty played dismally, neither player excites me at test level but the debate from sharks fans like puma are laughable and full of prejudice .
29 Aug 2012, 12:44 pm
@sharks_lover-89: wrong, FLouw made his bok debut at 6, with dewalt at 7 and joe van niekerk @ 8…
29 Aug 2012, 12:45 pm
@Stiff-arm-98: “Klipgooier”….. bwaahaaaa. Laughed out lout….. Very funny…….. had a damn good laugh there…. hahaha.
29 Aug 2012, 12:46 pm
@rvanaardt-107: I would imagine it;s because of the potential Daniels has vs the potential Potgieter has? If you look at Daniels’ super 15, he has the ability to take the step up, and has had some huge matches, also growing as a skippert, but gets yanked after 50 minutes….whereas passengers like Olivier and Spies get 30, 40, 50 matches to prove themselves
Amd I re-iterate, not a shark or necessarily anti-bulls players
29 Aug 2012, 12:46 pm
@Puma-109: lout = loud
29 Aug 2012, 12:47 pm
@Transformation-99:
Hehe.
Look, my view is the relative number of caps of this Bok team tells a story in itself.
We are at the bottom of a Bok cycle at the moment ,and need to build a brand new team. Half the selections are stop gaps, and the other half are talented youngsters that are 3-4 years from reaching their peak.
The top level stars in the current team are limited to Frans Steyn and maybe Willem Alberts.
For the rest:
Beast is a so-so scrummager.
Adriaan Strauss is a stop gap.
Jannie is a stopgap.
Etsebeth is a youngster 3 years from his peak.
Bekker is a stopgap
Coetsee a youngster 3 years from his peak
Alberts as I’ve said, is a geniune star
Who knows who the no.8 is?
Hougaard is a lost youngster, playing out of position
Morne is a stopgap
Frans is a geniune star
De Villiers is a stopgap
Mvovo is a stopgap
Habana is a stopgap
Kirchner is an amusing stopgap
Point is, this is a **** Bok team. But we can’t do any better with what we have right now.
29 Aug 2012, 12:47 pm
@Puma-80:
M Steyn and JD Villiers are the 2 problem players in the backline…
For the Aussie Test I would start with Lambie at 10…J De Jongh at 13….
But once Goosen fit I ftruly believe he will be a superstar….
Then for me Goosen at 10…..
I would also have Aplon at 15……
But right now I am absolutely ecstatic ….F Louw is a brilliant selection….absolutely brilliant…..
Once all fit we bring back Brussow in the mix and I am in rugby Nirvana….add Guthro Steenkamp and all is well in G 10 s world….
Also feel Keegan a better bet than Potgieter, but they are meant for different roles….and cant see J Potgieter starting with the squad that is there now…
How JJ Engelbrecht jumped over JDJ in the 1 st place was simply dumb…
29 Aug 2012, 12:47 pm
@82 who is “we”?
So HM will take the risk of tinkering with combinations against Aus & NZ away
I bet he’s about to do a “lambie” or “elton” on JdJ, Big Duane & The Goose. Too Shitt scared to play them vs the ABs
29 Aug 2012, 12:47 pm
HM starting to doubt his own prejudices,
De Jongh in then out then in again
Lambie in then not too sure then just a spare part
Daniel in then out then in then out
Kolisi out then in then out again without touching a ball. If anyone should have gone to argentina ahead of Potgieter should have been Kolisi cause at least he’d still be available.
Engelbrecht out then in then out after 10 minutes chasing shadows
Only consistency is Potgieter the favored blue eyed son of a gun, and Steyn of course, who would ever dream about dropping him?
29 Aug 2012, 12:48 pm
@stew-101: That depends on how HM uses FL, or not. But the answer is clear: No, it’s not Deans and Henry/Hansen that’s wrong regarding the effectiveness of fetchers, it’s HM.
I listened to english commentary during the england series, and they couldn’t believe their luck that Brussouw was left out. It reminded me of the relieve you felt (as an opponent in SR) seeing John Smit included in the Sharks 15 in place of Bissie!
29 Aug 2012, 12:48 pm
@Tacitus-112: Why must Kirtchner be a stop gap- Heyneke should just play Lambie at fullback from now on. klaar.
29 Aug 2012, 12:48 pm
Thought it might have been an error, but both Sport24 and Keo have Daniel out of the side. The most worrying thing for me about this is Heyneke’s inconsistency with what he says to the press to justify his selections and what he does. His reasoning on not selecting Daniel to start against the Pumas was that they needed Floppy Potgieter’s physicality and that Daniel would be used against the Aussies faster game. What happens? Daniel gets dropped and Potgieter who is exceedingly average (even at Super Rugby and Currie Cup level) is still there. Essentially he’s lying to the player and the public. I am a mild fan of Daniel when a game opens up and believe he’s best as an impact player, but this strikes me as a bit offsides from the coach.
Perhaps Meyer believes Potgieter’s hair flying all over the place = effectiveness at the tackle. Also the dimwit has never learned how to pass at the Bulls. The genius of players like Read and McCaw and even Big Joe, Juan Smith etc is that while they could steamroll their opponents, they could also off-load in the tackle or even go for the gap instead of always trying to physically dominate guys who spend just as much time as you in the gym.
29 Aug 2012, 12:48 pm
@Transformation-108: MoM in first test against Wales…
Another Bok debutant in that clash, JDJ, scored one of the best breakaway stepping tries in recent history.
29 Aug 2012, 12:48 pm
Tacitus
How can you not have watched the game on Saturday
What were you doing
And then have nerve to come comment here.
29 Aug 2012, 12:49 pm
@Puma-109: Anyone from a 100km radius of Despatch is by definition a klipgooier
29 Aug 2012, 12:50 pm
Why was JJ dropped, he hasn’t put a foot wrong imo and didn’t play much.
I don’t like bashing players but Potgieter must be one of the luckiest players to ever become a Bok. And I don’t believe it is the so called blue tinted glasses that got him selected, Dewald Potgieter and Cj Stander are both much better players than him imo, whichever style you choose to play.
Heyneke has always backed some less talented players with great character and turned them into stars by giving them opportunities and backing them.
Richard Bands is a prime example, het was a retreated flank/hooker from the North West, also an older player like Potgieter, and Meyer turned him into a very decent tight head prop.
The international arena is unfortunately not the place developing below standard players. At the moment Potgieter belongs in the Currie Cup, not Superrugby and definitely not tests.
29 Aug 2012, 12:50 pm
@sharks_lover-89: would you say Puma is slandering a Bulls players when he says:
80.Puma:
29 Aug 2012, 12:31 pm @grant10-74: No just those two dropped. Damn shame for Keegan feel bad for him really. That useless Potgieter should have been dropped instead. Wish I never saw Morne’s name as well.
29 Aug 2012, 12:50 pm
@Dawn-120:
I was away for the weekend.
I recorded it. But after hearing of the result, couldn’t be bothered to sit through it. So I just skipped to Mallet’s rant after the game, which was quite entertaining, and then came straight here.
29 Aug 2012, 12:50 pm
1. Beast, 2. Burden, 3. Cilliers, 4. Etsebeth, 5. Kruger, 6. Flouw, 7. Alberts, 8. Coetzee, 9. Pienaar, 10. Goosen, 11. Habana, 12. FSteyn, 13. JDJ, 14. Hougaard, 15. Lambie
This can work. Vermeulen is a rhino!
29 Aug 2012, 12:50 pm
Puma @ 87.He could not possibly be that Machiavellian.
29 Aug 2012, 12:51 pm
@Stiff-arm-121: Okay get it….haha. Was funny to read it…lol.
29 Aug 2012, 12:51 pm
@Reserve Naartjie-118:
Read post 107. Answers the Daniel question brilliantly.
29 Aug 2012, 12:52 pm
@Atreides-110:
that possibly is the reason for the outbursts, however like i said its not justified if you look at how the two guys actually preformed when given their chance. Super rugby players even great ones can often not make the test step up. Daniels has been given a few chances and never left any impression. I agree with regards to oliver and spies, that is frustrating however sometimes a coach will have so much belief in the potential he sees that he will keep on trying. it happens in every team.
Keegan obviously does not inspire that in HM. if plum was bok coach he may of hot more chances to prove or not prove himself.
29 Aug 2012, 12:52 pm
@fantasticbarnsmell-81: not a bad move that
29 Aug 2012, 12:52 pm
“‘We were very keen to give Siya Kolisi an opportunity on this tour, but he is also out injured,”
Ja right Heineken
29 Aug 2012, 12:52 pm
@Tacitus-124:
I am sure you expected a victory over the rugby powerhouse Argentina, like every single Bok supporter on the planet.
A little suprised by the result, perhaps?
29 Aug 2012, 12:53 pm
I’m sorry? Do I hear the wailing of Sharks? Is it my imagination or are these wails becoming louder and louder (as well as more pitiful)?
You fellows really should have listened to those “whinging, unpatriotic and negative” anti-Bok Stormer supporters such as I
One thing about most Stormers fans: we have been consistent throughout in terms of criticism towards Meyer, his selections, his gameplan and his ‘vision’. The Sharks lot have been flip flopping like fish out of water – side to side, side to side – depending on how many Sharks are in the squad, or starting line up at the time. They loved Meyer, hater Meyer, loved Meyer and now it seems Meyer has really done it.
From the dizzying heights of June, to the lows of August – it’s been a bumpy ride for these Sharks groupies.
That said: Vermeulen and Goosen will surely play Currie Cup this weekend, with possible bench starts against Australia surely? Both Allistair and Naka have publically stated both players aren’t ready at this stage.
I also wonder which selector/s were involved in the apparent ‘disagreements’ that took place re: players…
HG and co are so confused now.
29 Aug 2012, 12:53 pm
Good now look at the game plan.
29 Aug 2012, 12:53 pm
@Dawn-131:
Look, he’s got to keep you ranting Cape Crusaders happy. I would also mouth off a few meaningless pleasantries to calm you folk down a tad.
29 Aug 2012, 12:53 pm
@Transformation-123: Yip sounds very much like I am.
Disappointed for Keegan. He has hardly been given a chance Transie. Nor has Lambie he has splinters on his backside by now.
Do you Rate Morne and Potgieter?
29 Aug 2012, 12:53 pm
Duane,
welcome to hell.
cane,
(formerly of Cockerville).
29 Aug 2012, 12:54 pm
@willievz-132:
Indeed I was. Now let’s see how the Aussies do over there.
29 Aug 2012, 12:54 pm
@Transformation-123:
Park it!
29 Aug 2012, 12:55 pm
@sharks_lover-89: F Louw is an out and out 6…wore the 7 jersey at Stormers but played the 6 role
29 Aug 2012, 12:55 pm
@Tacitus-135:
29 Aug 2012, 12:57 pm
@Dawn-141:
No one can ever approach the level of double speak that Jake the Snake White perfected while in charge of the Bok team.
On the Richter schale of spin, Heyneke is about a 1 compared to Jakey’s boy’s 11.
29 Aug 2012, 12:57 pm
@Tacitus-142:
Jakey boy’s 11.
29 Aug 2012, 12:58 pm
I’m glad for Vermullet, though. At least he’s got that ****** off his back now.
29 Aug 2012, 12:59 pm
@Tacitus-144:
Apparently you can’t say m onkey.
29 Aug 2012, 13:00 pm
@Spiesisworthless1-106: farken over the moon….
HM has surprised me today
in a farken good way!
29 Aug 2012, 13:00 pm
@Tacitus-124:
You didn’t miss much Tic Tac Toe.
It was like volley ball at the Para’s.
29 Aug 2012, 13:01 pm
@grant10-113: I would have those players starting too Grant. BUT they will not. So who will be on the bench?
Ruan
Goosen
JdJ
Doubt even Lambie will make it. Unless Goosen has been taken with to get ready for the home series. That could also be it. Lambie covers 3 positions so must be hard to leave him off the bench I suppose. However, if he is not going to get game time I would rather have him in the CC everytime than seeing him just sitting a full 80min on the bench. Go read McLooks blog article on Sports24. Down to the left side it sits. He has a great rugby brain. Really enjoy his articles. He makes more sense there than most I have read.
29 Aug 2012, 13:01 pm
i really do not understand why bakkies is not in this squad.
29 Aug 2012, 13:02 pm
@willievz-119: YUP! vivid in my memory like it was yesterday….recall smit getting the ball, shaping to kick, then thinking about it, flinging a pass that hook gobbled up?
danie rossouw threw a lekker offload for dewalt’s try!
29 Aug 2012, 13:02 pm
If it takes the national coach of SA, a supposed powerhouse of world rugby, 5 games to realise that in 2012, a fetcher type player is essential, how long will it take him to realise that the kick-chase , deep flyhalf wont do the stuff against better teams… I find this a bit disturbing actually… Give him props for the selections, but the team selected for Perth, and the way they attempt to play would carry more weight…
29 Aug 2012, 13:03 pm
@grant10-146: Grant don’t get too excited now. We need to see who Meyer has starting in the team for Perth. Think he knows though we need a fetcher. We were bullied at the breakdowns by Arg.
29 Aug 2012, 13:04 pm
@Transformation-123: hehe
Look the Sharks fans are all the same, they want the whole Bok team to be Sharks and if they don’t get their way they call players from other provinces, and the Bok coach’s game plan useless.
These Sharks fans will hope we lose to Australia so they can be proven right and that Heyneke Meyers eyes will open and see that if you want to win you got to have at least 13 Sharks in the team. They will be shouting for Australia in front of their TV sets come next weekend.
The Shark supporters are truly pittyfull 2 faced fair weathered fake Bok supporters
29 Aug 2012, 13:05 pm
@cane-137: He is the unluckiest player in SA rugby history. He has been treated pretty badly by the Bok selectors in the past, yet he stuck it out in SA, waiting his turn, which has TWICE been stumped by injury. Last year he would have played Tri-Nations, were it not for injury. And had he played….Spies would not have started in the World Cup.
This year again, injury has clouded his Bok dream…
Now the poor fellow is 50% fit…..and is about to be shunted into possibly the kakkest Bok team in years….
What chance does he have?
He must have really pissed the rugby gods off.
Fukkit I hope he manages to impress, regardless of what the rest of the ship of fools are doing.
29 Aug 2012, 13:06 pm
Heyneke .. pls read… free of charge…mahala..
The Boks seemed to think going harder would be the answer this week. Ball carriers predictably lining up to smash through another Argentinian gang tackle ended up in a mugging. The bullies were bullied. The Bok coaches need to rethink their strategy.
Of course rugby is a physical contest, one that you need to win. But it’s your brains, as much as your brawn, that helps you win this battle within a battle. Heyneke Meyer made his approach clear through his selections. By picking Jacques Potgieter and Willem Alberts in his loosies, Meyer signalled that subtlety and finesse weren’t going to play a major part in this contest. they are sledgehammers rather than rapiers
Outmuscling the Pumas in their own back yard isn’t simply a matter of giving hulking ball carriers one-out passes to t-bone over top of tacklers. The Argentinians are too proud and tough for that to happen. Juan Martin Fernandez Lobbe is a phenomenal leader. Like other skippers before him, he gets the Pumas to grow extra muscles.
What South Africa needed was some subtlety. Run these behemoths at the defensive line, make the tacklers sit on their heels, then pass the ball. This would take Argentina away from gang tackles and allow ball runners to dominate one on one contests rather than lose two on one battles!
Of course, to do this you need backs coming forward with the runners to force defenders into making decisions. An uncertain defender will be sluggish in the tackle.
Instead South Africa sent a flat line of forward runners promoting themselves to receive the ball and a deep line of backs to get the ball behind the forwards. This made it too obvious which group was getting the ball, and allowed defenders to smash the forward runners or slide off on second-man plays to cut down backs or, at worst, end up pushing the outside backs to the sideline where the Bok wingers were always confronted with 2-3 Argentinian defenders.
Every move in the game should involve hiding and holding players. Holding players run strong decoy lines to commit defenders and stop them sliding off. Hiding players look like they are not interested, run as if they aren’t getting the ball then strike like cheetahs (or, like springboks escaping cheetahs!)
Instead, the Boks gave too many cues away about who is to get the ball, and the Pumas read them like a Wilbur Smith novel. Until the Boks come up with an attacking formula that allows them to hit either the forwards or the backs (or both in the same play) without sending obvious cues to the opposing defenders, they’ll continue to struggle with slow ball, defences that are set and little continuity.
29 Aug 2012, 13:09 pm
Aussie test….
After much thought and reflection
15 Lambie
14 Habana
11 Mvovo
12 F Steyn
13 J De Jongh
10 Jantjes
9 Hougaard
8 M Coetsee
7 Alberts
6 F louw
5 J Kruger
4 Etsebeth
3 Jannie
2 Strauss…captain
1 beast…
29 Aug 2012, 13:10 pm
I’m not sold on Vermeulen, but will be very happy if he can prove me wrong.
29 Aug 2012, 13:11 pm
@line break-151: I agree, it is ridiculous.
But hey, we are just stupid bloggers who don’t know better than the coach.
29 Aug 2012, 13:12 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-154:
I remember seeing him (Duane) in the same team as Luke maybe 5 years ago here in NZ.
Stormers had very talented loose trio.
I was impressed.
29 Aug 2012, 13:13 pm
This will be the team for the next test
15 Kirchner
14 Habana
13 JDV
12 Frans
11 Mvovo
10 Morne
09 Hougaard
08 Vermeulen
07 POtgieter
06 Flouw
05 Bekker
04 Etsebeth
03 Jannie
02 Strauss
01 Beast/Greyling
16 Liebenburg/Willie Wep
17 Greyling/Beast
18 VDMerwe
19 Stegmann
20 Pienaar
21 JDJ
22 Goosen
29 Aug 2012, 13:14 pm
@willievz-157:
Agree with you. He is a desperate pick, and even when fully fit, is so-so.
Now in his underprepared state, I would not start with him. I’d pull out the cash and get Kanko released from is club for a few weeks or something.
We really are down to the bare bones in terms of player depth.
29 Aug 2012, 13:14 pm
@rvanaardt-107: Don’t know where you get your stats from:
Potgieter played 80 minutes, made 18 tackles, attended 14 rucks, made 54m, 0 offloads and 1 turnover. Mean time between tackles 4.4 minutes
Alberts played 80 minutes, made 12 tackles, attended 18 rucks, made 68m, 1 offload and 1 turnover.
Coetzee played 67 minutes, made 15 tackles, attended 20 rucks, made 17m, 1 offload and conceded 1 turnover. Mean time between tackles 4.5 minutes
So he did not make more metres than Alberts, had the same tackle rate as Coetzee, and attended fewer rucks than both
I would not say that he outshone his partners – overall I thought they all had poor games
29 Aug 2012, 13:16 pm
Kiwi test
Play Vermeulen at 8 [ if fit ]
Goosen at 10 [ if fit ]
Be bold HM…..
same old will not cut it anymore….
and stormers / wp…..FFS man, with Schalk looking really bad, as well as Koster, get F Louw back here man…dammit
29 Aug 2012, 13:16 pm
@willievz-157: He might prove me wrong….and I am one of his head cheerleaders. But at the very least, he is going to get a CHANCE! The only thing he (and his groupies) have ever asked for.
Just feel for him that it is under these rather ‘whacked’ conditions that he will make his 1st appearance.
29 Aug 2012, 13:17 pm
From this squad i would go with
15. Kirchner (JPP in the future)
14. Habana (Hope he doesnt shoot off his line)
13. Jean
12. F Steyn
11. Hougie
10. Lambie/Elton either or
9. Pienaar
8. Coetzee
7. Alberts
6. Flo
5. Bekker/Kruger cant decide
4. Etsebeth
3. Jannie (Needs to stop giving away penalties)
2. Strauss
1. Beast
29 Aug 2012, 13:18 pm
Guthro Steenkamp needs to be brought into the fold as well….Beast has looked moeg last couple of games
29 Aug 2012, 13:18 pm
@Bokhoring-162: turnover = concede a turnover
29 Aug 2012, 13:18 pm
@Bok fan-165:
That’s pretty close to the team that will be picked, I reckon. Minus Lambie and Elton.
29 Aug 2012, 13:19 pm
@willievz-157:
I’m not sold on HM.
29 Aug 2012, 13:21 pm
Pretty excited about Goosen getting a chance. I just hope they don’t rush him back and he gets injured. Also excited about Vermeulen but to be honest i always though he was pretty slow at 8th man. I dont think he going to add anything else to the team that Spies, Potgieter offers us. Best selection was Definitely Louw.
29 Aug 2012, 13:22 pm
Well I know it sounds like a complaint but is very annoying that Keegan Daniel is dropped.. I actually agree with Flow & Vermeulen but I would have dropped Potgieter
Daniel is very unlucky. Good to see De Jongh there but I would have loved to see Gio Aplon ahead of Kirchner
Elton Jantjes should be there ahead of Goosen…I know the kid is good but Jantjes is on fire
I find Heyneke Meyer more difficult to understand than P Div..by a long shot.
My squad:
15 Patrick Lambie
14 Gio Aplon
13 Jean de Villiers
12 Francois Steyn
11 Bryan Habana
10 Elton Jantjes
9 Francois Hougaard
8 Duane Vermeulen
7 Willem Alberts
6 Marcell Coetzee
5 Andries Bekker
4 Eben Etzebeth
3 Pat Cilliers
2 Tiaan Liebenberg
1 Tendai Mtawarira
16 Adriaan Strauss
17 Jannie Du Plessis
18 Juandre Kruger
19 Francois Louw
20 Ruan Pienaar
21 Juan De Jongh
22 Lwazi Mvovo
23 Craig Burden
24 CJ Van Der Linde
25 Jean Deysel
26 Jano Vermaak
27 Johaan Goosen
28 JJ Engelbrecht
29 Aug 2012, 13:23 pm
@wpstormerbok-169: Not many of us are. Or ever have been….
29 Aug 2012, 13:23 pm
Daniel to shine against the Cheetahs
29 Aug 2012, 13:28 pm
Happy with the team
Now leave HM alone to do some coaching
29 Aug 2012, 13:31 pm
Vermulean is a hard man with great positional skills. Fantastic choice, Tac’s prejudice aside
29 Aug 2012, 13:31 pm
I think Flo,Goose and Duane will be in the match day 22. I base it on the following logical (to me anyway thinking):
1. Why would you bring a guy back from the UK and not use him.
2. If you are not going to use the other two,It would have made more sense to leave them at home to get more matches under the belt and use them in the home leg. They cannot get match fit by sitting in the stands.
I think the team will be:
15. Kirchner
14. Hougaard
13. De Villiers
12. Steyn.
11. Habana
10. Steyn
09. Pienaar
08. Alberts
07. Louw
06. Coetzee
05. Bekker
04. Etsebeth
03. Du Plessis
02. Strauss
01. Beast
16. Liebenberg
17. Cilliers
18. Kruger
19. Vermuelen
20. Goosen
21. De Jongh
22. Lambie
29 Aug 2012, 13:34 pm
Hey Transformation
The Reason why we SHARK FANNIES think the way we do has nothing to do with selfishness, closed mindedness, etc which exists everywhere else…
It is very simple mate, we are the brains of the country mate, thats all….!lol
BRAINS- the Springboks are tick(thick) as a plank and more so, are the SA frenchise, all the cronies who take home a lovely pay cheque and only imput 25% of their monies worth.
Which team is going into liquidation…ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! Tick as a plank I say…
Talking about Sharks, the Shark team should do away with those stupid “Americanised wanck wanck cheerleader nonsence and have Zulu men and chicks in their tribal clothing, about 20 of them welcoming all provincial teams to their field. That is spectator stuff, who the hell wants to be amercian?
Be leaders(sheperd) not followers(sheep) I say….
29 Aug 2012, 13:35 pm
@Pypkan-153: Don’t be a complete idiot. I will never support Australia no matter who is playing for the Boks I will always support the Boks. I don’t only Sharks players there I want the best. I will never wish for the Boks to lose. But we will against the All Blacks and could against Oz. NOT that I want them too. I simply hate us losing to either of those countries. It is all about us playing with our best. And needing to play a better style of rugby, that is no brainer. Think what you like but that is it.
29 Aug 2012, 13:36 pm
@Tacitus-168: Minus the most NB spot in the team unfortunately
29 Aug 2012, 13:39 pm
@kimberleystormer-176:
I also reckon that will be HMs loose trio. He’ll try to replicate the Schalk/Flo combo with Marcel playing the Schalk role and Flo coming in behind him at the breakdown on both defence and attack.
29 Aug 2012, 13:39 pm
HM would do well to give Coetzee a break for the next game
He has pretty much been playing non-stop since February plus all the recent travel plus he plays a very physical type of game
29 Aug 2012, 13:39 pm
sharks_lover – How can stegman be in your 22 if he is not in the squad.
29 Aug 2012, 13:39 pm
@kimberleystormer-176: Think you could be spot on there. Except I think Kruger will start and Bekker on the bench.
29 Aug 2012, 13:40 pm
H.m pls pick this starting 15.
1. Beast.
2. Strauss.
3. Pat.
4. Eben.
5. Kruger.
6. Louw.
7. Alberts
8. Duane If fit
9. Hougaard
10. Goosen
11. Mvovo
12. Steyn
13. Jdj
14. Habana
15 lambie
29 Aug 2012, 13:40 pm
Pumas outsmart predictable South Africa
Wayne Smith
Former All Blacks Assistant Coach
about 3 hours ago
The Pumas nearly pulled off a winning upset that would have been well deserved. Tactically they were way superior to the Boks. Argentina won the physical battle because they were much smarter in how they went about it.
The Boks seemed to think going harder would be the answer this week. Ball carriers predictably lining up to smash through another Argentinian gang tackle ended up in a mugging. The bullies were bullied. The Bok coaches need to rethink their strategy.
Of course rugby is a physical contest, one that you need to win. But it’s your brains, as much as your brawn, that helps you win this battle within a battle. Heyneke Meyer made his approach clear through his selections. By picking Jacques Potgieter and Willem Alberts in his loosies, Meyer signalled that subtlety and finesse weren’t going to play a major part in this contest. they are sledgehammers rather than rapiers
Outmuscling the Pumas in their own back yard isn’t simply a matter of giving hulking ball carriers one-out passes to t-bone over top of tacklers. The Argentinians are too proud and tough for that to happen. Juan Martin Fernandez Lobbe is a phenomenal leader. Like other skippers before him, he gets the Pumas to grow extra muscles.
What South Africa needed was some subtlety. Run these behemoths at the defensive line, make the tacklers sit on their heels, then pass the ball. This would take Argentina away from gang tackles and allow ball runners to dominate one on one contests rather than lose two on one battles!
Of course, to do this you need backs coming forward with the runners to force defenders into making decisions. An uncertain defender will be sluggish in the tackle.
Instead South Africa sent a flat line of forward runners promoting themselves to receive the ball and a deep line of backs to get the ball behind the forwards. This made it too obvious which group was getting the ball, and allowed defenders to smash the forward runners or slide off on second-man plays to cut down backs or, at worst, end up pushing the outside backs to the sideline where the Bok wingers were always confronted with 2-3 Argentinian defenders.
Every move in the game should involve hiding and holding players. Holding players run strong decoy lines to commit defenders and stop them sliding off. Hiding players look like they are not interested, run as if they aren’t getting the ball then strike like cheetahs (or, like springboks escaping cheetahs!)
Instead, the Boks gave too many cues away about who is to get the ball, and the Pumas read them like a Wilbur Smith novel. Until the Boks come up with an attacking formula that allows them to hit either the forwards or the backs (or both in the same play) without sending obvious cues to the opposing defenders, they’ll continue to struggle with slow ball, defences that are set and little continuity.
In contrast, the Pumas were smart, had a clear tactic to get gain line through driving line outs or through forward runners shifting the point of attack using linking passes. You could tell that Graham Henry is already advancing theircoaching.
The Boks obliged with the first tactic by happily kicking the ball out and giving the Pumas driving opportunities. The second tactic allowed the Argentinian ball carriers to get their shoulders slightly past their South African tacklers. At the very least, this created an impression within the Bok camp that they were being outmuscled. Heyneke Meyer’s comments after the game that they let their country down and that they have to go harder at the breakdown supports this perception.
Fly-half Nicolas Sanchez, who replaced the injured Hernandez, was a revelation. He took the line on and caused South Africa a lot of problems. Both Argentina’s half backs also had a significant influence. This is a team with ability, growing in confidence, who could be a threat far sooner than people think.
29 Aug 2012, 13:42 pm
@Puma-178: It seems no Bok players will get game time this weekend , None were released
29 Aug 2012, 13:43 pm
@sharks_lover-173: Have no doubt about it. He will.
29 Aug 2012, 13:44 pm
@sharks_lover-186: Damn. Was hoping we could get Lambie and Burden for this game. Would have been great.
29 Aug 2012, 13:46 pm
@race of tan-182: thanks, was meant to be Coetzee
29 Aug 2012, 13:47 pm
@Gazelle-184: That would be a great backline if they could start. As much as I rate Hougie I would start with Ruan there.
Anyhow think post 176 probably has who Meyer will start with. Except I think Kruger will start ahead of Bekker this week.
29 Aug 2012, 13:50 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-149: Saw a pic he posted on Twitter recently. Looks like he’s about 6 months pregnant.
29 Aug 2012, 13:51 pm
The more pressure on Boks means more pressure on HM whihc unfortanately means more Bulls influence in the Boks. It is good knew that Flo is in but one man doesn’t make a difference to terrible tactics.
When Jake White started out his Boks looked alot more healthier than this bunch and before you all get upset , the centres for Whites first series v Ireland were Julies/M Joubert, infact they were very good. Butit was White’s tactics that worked well. I don’t see that magic at all with HM, nothing at all, just promises promises promises!!
29 Aug 2012, 13:51 pm
@mpundulu-185: The key word in that thesis is in the title.
Predictable.
29 Aug 2012, 13:52 pm
sharks_lover – Phew. Good knews. Way to early for DP my man!!!
29 Aug 2012, 13:53 pm
@race of tan-192: White played a flatter 10 in 2004 that drew defenders, in Jaco van der Westhuizen.
In 2005 and 2006, it was Andre P.
And in 2007, it was Butch.
All 10s who varied their alignment and positioning.
29 Aug 2012, 13:54 pm
@willievz-193: Very much so.
29 Aug 2012, 13:56 pm
@grant10-166:
i would bring gurthro and john back.
29 Aug 2012, 13:57 pm
Am i the only one who is not happy with this selection of Goosen and Vermeulen. Its a lose lose situation for the players and for the team. Although to be selected is awesome.
They are both coming off long term injuries and have only played a few games. Goosen one game back, Vermeulen 2 games back.
If he selects them for this squad he better start them because if he does not start them then he is a stupid coach. They could of rather been getting match fit in the cc instead of carrying tackle bags or sitting on the bench. If they start it is even more problematic for the Boks. To have two rusty players start against the best two sides in the world is stupidity. Why not let them get match fit for the home leg then you can start them because they would have a whole month of rugby under their belts.
Disappointed in HM. I didnt think he would be this bad.
29 Aug 2012, 13:57 pm
@grant10-166: Ja with so much rugby def need Guthro in the mix
29 Aug 2012, 13:58 pm
willievz – Atleast Whites plan was fairly affective. 2005 we were minutes away from back to back 3N title, best Boks i have ever seen was 2005!!!
All i am saying is HM looks rattled and becuase he is a former provincial coach , he is leaning too much towards his beloved Bulls style of play, which aint work.
And we are going to get found out by the Ozzies then the ABs.
No former Provincial coach has ever been succesful as a Bok coach as they are always too provincially biased.
29 Aug 2012, 14:00 pm
@Bokhoring-181: Ja he looked tied on Sat
29 Aug 2012, 14:01 pm
I could be wrong but I think Bekker will start again simply because when he was fit, Kruger, despite doing well against England, was dropped out of the match day 22. Bekker did not play well in Argentina but was good in Cape Town. Maybe the injury he had during the week played a part?
29 Aug 2012, 14:01 pm
@race of tan-192: Agree. I am very disappointed with HM i was expecting so much more. He is not innovative at all and extremely conservative regarding selections and tactics.
29 Aug 2012, 14:02 pm
I reckon this will be HM’s team for the Aussies, if all fit:
Beast
Strauss
Jannie
Etzebeth
Bekker
Coetzee
Alberts
Vermeulen
Hougaard
Mvovo
M Steyn
F Steyn
JDV
Habana
Kirchner
Bench
Cilliers, Liebenberg, J.Kruger, F.Louw, Pienaar, Lambie, Goosen
29 Aug 2012, 14:03 pm
I give Goosen 5 minutes before he picks up another injury
29 Aug 2012, 14:04 pm
The Ab’s will play the game at great pace, anybody underdone fitness wise is going to get slaughtered.
29 Aug 2012, 14:04 pm
@race of tan-200:
It is also interesting – and by saying this, I don’t imply anything – but English speaking coaches seem to do better than the Afrikaans speaking ones.
29 Aug 2012, 14:05 pm
willievz – Actually that is not a basd 22 at all. The Biggest problem is tactics, they are simply not good enough.
If the Boks don’t change their tactics soon come EOYT at Twickenham and England will beat us!!!!. Even Wales could be in with a shout as well!!!
If this team played that Welsh team from last years RWC opener, this Bok team will get smashed!
29 Aug 2012, 14:06 pm
@Sasuke-198: Agree with every point you make my friend. Delighted for Vermeulen and Goosen of course – but not in these circumstances. Talk about setting people up to fail.
It really hasn’t taken Meyer long to lose the plot totally. Players in general are obviously not that important to him. (Their wellbeing: both mental and physical).
I’m so p # ssed off that every one of the concerns I had when Meyer was appointed, were ALL legitimate.
I feel sorry for the people who expected so much, and danced in the streets when he given the post. It is they who are suffering most at this stage. (i.e. many Sharks fans)
29 Aug 2012, 14:06 pm
@race of tan-208: Luckily we don’t play Wales this year.
We have Ireland, Scotland and England lined up.
On 10, 17 and 24 November respectively.
29 Aug 2012, 14:07 pm
willievz #207 – It always sound a bit rude to say that, i have said already, but the fact remains, English Bok coaches did better than their Afrikaans counter parts. I also think it has a bit to that Mallet, White and Christie were not ex provincial coaches so they had no bias.
I think HM can do it buthe needs to admit his short comings and get the outside help he needs!
29 Aug 2012, 14:07 pm
The team is beginning to look better with the inclusion of Goosen, Louw and Vermeulen.
Hopefully the starting loose trio will be :
6 Louw
7. Alberts.
8. Vermeulen
Coetzee on bench
Not the fastest or most skilled trio aound but not that bad.
I reckon the boks will have a 40-50% chance to beat Australia in Perth and about a 10% chance to beat NZ. If they can come away from the tour with 5 points out of 10 it will be a mini- victory. I expect them to collect 2 points though.
29 Aug 2012, 14:08 pm
@willievz-210:
why not grand slam opportunity gone begging?
29 Aug 2012, 14:09 pm
@mpundulu-185:
You had me at “Pumas outsmart predictable South Africa”
29 Aug 2012, 14:09 pm
willievz – EIsh. Ireland may be licking their lips for this team. England will be very confident and Scotland are stil rather poor. Mind you we lost to Scotland last time!!
Oh dear as long as it is not another Strauli tour from hell fiasco!!!
29 Aug 2012, 14:10 pm
@willievz-204:
I don’t think he’ll start with Duane, he’s not that stupid. Probably Alberts at 8 and Flo 7. Duane should come off the bench for the last 20.
29 Aug 2012, 14:13 pm
@race of tan-215: I was at Murrayfield for that farce.
I was also in Glasgow for the 7s this year, watching the Blitzboks succumb 47-0 at the hands of the Samoans.
Maybe I should stay away from Scotland!
29 Aug 2012, 14:13 pm
@Taahirah-191:
not true.
toulon’s won the last 5 games they’ve played, including wins against racing, stade, and perpignan, and bakkies has been a part of that.
he’s playing full 80 minute rugby these days and his weight is listed at 118kg, which i think is true because i’ve also looked at his recent twitter picks and he definitely looks like he has lost weight from the +- 126 to 124kg he was at the end of last season.
29 Aug 2012, 14:15 pm
@David-216:
Duanne is no impact player and his style of play is more suited to typical tight hard test rugby that we usually see in the first half of tests.
29 Aug 2012, 14:15 pm
@wpstormerbok-214: lol
29 Aug 2012, 14:15 pm
@David-216:
I think he is desperate to play Alberts at 7.
He could start with Duane, when the game is a little bit tighter and slower, and introduce F.Louw when the game opens up in the second half.
29 Aug 2012, 14:17 pm
@mpundulu-220:
wayne smith has nothing to teach me.
29 Aug 2012, 14:18 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-209: lol I am also suffering dude! I mean this is the guy that lead the Bulls to super rugby titles! I really thought he would be a modern coach with fresh innovative strategies but alas.
29 Aug 2012, 14:19 pm
South Africa
A Goose step and a Bok from Bath
Wed, 29 Aug 2012 09:54
PrevNextWe opted for Francois because he is a specialist openside flank
Coach Heyneke Meyer has made a number of significant additions to the Springbok squad for the Australasian leg of the Rugby Championship.
The initial spotlight may shine of the inclusion of the uncapped duo of Western Province No.8 Duane Vermeulen and Free State Cheetahs flyhalf Johan Goosen.
However, more significant is the recall of loose forward Francois Louw, who has captained Bath in England.
He will fill the openside void that has been so evident in the loose forward combination that featured in the opening round of the competition – which saw the Boks beat Argentina 27-6 in Cape Town and drawn 16-all with the Pumas in Mendoza.
The squad of 28 for Tests against Australia in Perth (September 8) and New Zealand in Dunedin (September 15), was finalised on Wednesday.
Apart from the inclusion of Louw, Vermeulen and Goosen, there was also a recall for Western Province midfielder Juan de Jongh.
De Jongh was part of the squad for the first Test against Argentina in Cape Town.
However, it will be Louw’s first involvement with the Springboks since last year’s World Cup in New Zealand.
The Bok coach, Meyer, said he has confidence in the squad that has been selected, even though injuries, unavailability and retirement have robbed the national team of more than 800 Test caps worth of experience.
“We were not happy with our performance in Mendoza and we are making no excuses for what happened there, but we take full responsibility and have to look forward and get ready for our next tough match, against Australia in Perth,” said Meyer.
“Untimely injuries to Bismarck du Plessis, Chiliboy Ralepelle, Pierre Spies, JP Pietersen and Bjorn Basson have already hit us hard in the past few weeks. This again provides opportunities for other players to put up their hands.
“We were very keen to give Siya Kolisi an opportunity on this tour, but he is also out injured, alongside a list of other injured or unavailable forwards that include Gurthrö Steenkamp, Heinrich Brüssow, Schalk Burger, Juan Smith and Ryan Kankowski.”
Commenting on the four new players in the squad, Meyer said: “Injuries meant we could not use Duane and Johan earlier in the season, but both have played Currie Cup matches since their return and after consultation with their respective provincial medical teams, we’re confident that they are ready to travel with us.
“While Duane and Johan are medically fit, their provincial coaches felt it necessary that they get more game time in the Currie Cup this weekend.
“However, as we don’t have a lot of time to prepare and we need as much time with them as possible to get them used to our structures and game plans, the decision was taken to select them for the tour.
“I regard both of them as world class rugby players. If it wasn’t for injuries, Duane would have been a Springbok long ago. I also believe Johan has a long career ahead of him at Test match level and we will expose him when and how we feel it will benefit the player and the team best.
“Both Juan and Francois played at the World Cup last year and are experienced players.
“Juan covers both positions in the midfield.
“We opted for Francois because he is a specialist openside flank. In the absence of Schalk, Heinrich and Siya, he can cover blindside and No.8 as well, while he is also a very useful option in the line-out.
“I’m also very excited with the quality of young talent coming through – Eben, Marcell and Johan are all still Under-21 and that bodes well for the future of Springbok rugby.”
The Springbok squad will assemble in Johannesburg on Thursday and is scheduled to depart for Perth on Saturday.
South African squad: Willem Alberts, Andries Bekker, Craig Burden, Pat Cilliers, Marcell Coetzee, Juan de Jongh, Jean de Villiers (captain), Jannie du Plessis, Eben Etzebeth, Johan Goosen, Dean Greyling, Bryan Habana, Francois Hougaard, Zane Kirchner, Juandré Kruger, Pat Lambie, Tiaan Liebenberg, Francois Louw, Tendai Mtawarira, Lwazi Mvovo, Ruan Pienaar, Jacques Potgieter, Frans Steyn, Morné Steyn, Adriaan Strauss, Flip van der Merwe, Jano Vermaak, Duane Vermeulen
29 Aug 2012, 14:20 pm
@Robzim-219: But he is not match fit to start an international test so what now? Stupid selection by HM. Could of kept Daniel and dropped Potgieter.
29 Aug 2012, 14:20 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-222: Correct. Wayne’s wisdom is wasted on individuals such as you and I.
He should be ‘teaching’ 95% of those involved in SA rugby – as a collective
29 Aug 2012, 14:21 pm
The F Louw inclusion is a massive step in the right direction….
29 Aug 2012, 14:22 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-222:
and thats exactly why you’ll get thumped this year, outdated game plan sub standard coaching dead man walking
29 Aug 2012, 14:23 pm
While Duane and Johan are medically fit, their provincial coaches felt it necessary that they get more game time in the Currie Cup this weekend.
“However, as we don’t have a lot of time to prepare and we need as much time with them as possible to get them used to our structures and game plans, the decision was taken to select them for the tour.
This shows that they wont play. “medically fit” yes they can walk and run but can they start an international test or come on from the bench.
They are not match fit Heyneke you dom kop and that is the most important aspect.
29 Aug 2012, 14:24 pm
This is my Meyer quote of the day:
““However, as we don’t have a lot of time to prepare and we need as much time with them as possible to get them used to our structures and game plans, the decision was taken to select them for the tour.”
Seriously? My rottweiler knows the Boks gameplan, and he would ‘get’ it in about 30 seconds. Watch the ball my boy: when it goes up high in the air, jump up and catch it; then run as fast as you can into the 1st person you see, fall down, drop the ball. The end.
Get ‘Vermeulen and Goosen’ used to the structures and gameplans indeed.
29 Aug 2012, 14:24 pm
@grant10-227: Agree. That breakdown was messy on saturday.
29 Aug 2012, 14:25 pm
So we can expect exactly the same as we’ve seen the last 5 test matches. HM is either stupid or stubborn, and I hope its the latter! I really wish the Boks success but can’t see it! Last time Morne had a good game was against the Lions. By kicking all your kicks does not mean you’ve had a good game! New style flyhalf is being able to do everything and Steyn does not do everything! I’d like to see Pienaar go 9, Janjties at 10, De Jong at 13, Hougaard 14, Mvovo 11 and Frans Steyn 15. We also need a fetcher altho HM doesn’t believe so…..
29 Aug 2012, 14:26 pm
@Sasuke-229:
Remember, the provincial coaches are also self-interested, rational individuals.
They want their best players to play for the provinces, not the Boks…
29 Aug 2012, 14:26 pm
@grant10-227: Although you know i agree as we sspoke about this yesterday, but according to whaat i have read, Flouw has not played for some time and has also been out injured????
If so we going into test rugby down under with some very undercooked players????
Is he really trying to set them up to fail??
I sure as hell hope not, but eish??
29 Aug 2012, 14:26 pm
Coach has officiailly lost the plot. Great bullsheeter he is though, telling the world he was gonna give Siya Later his debut on the australisia leg of the tour despite overlooking him for 5 games straight…yeah right!
29 Aug 2012, 14:26 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-230: Yip doesnt make sense. There is a bye before the last two games why not bring them in then and brief them. At least you can be sure they are match fit.
29 Aug 2012, 14:27 pm
@Puma-18:
@sharks_lover-11:
@Transformation-27:
Yep what I think is BS is how Daniel is given 58min to prove himself yet Hougaard, Spies and now Potsmacker get game after game.. I think Meyer feels he can’t play without a Burger or at the very least some one trying to be Burger. Then again I will wait to see how Potsmacker gets on over another game or two before making final judgement. Vermulin will have one big task ahead not being fully match fit this was evident against the Lions last week, im sure he will def up his game with this opportunity but will be unfair judgement if he gets thrown strait in, I think Meyer may play him off the bench, will be a surprise if he goes strait in. Flow now there is an interesting addition whom could start but may again come off bench..
29 Aug 2012, 14:27 pm
Fantastic on Goose and Duanne Vermuelen’s selections. I dont expect them to play against Auss, maybe off the bench with twenty to go. I do think that Vermuelen will feature against the AB’s, will be very interesting to see if HM selects Flo against Auss at eight with MC and WA as flanks. JDJ also good to be back in the mix.
Hope for DV and JG sake that they live up to the hype being made about them especially in DV’s case…………….one bad game in SA even if you dont lose and well…………look at the reaction for yourself.
29 Aug 2012, 14:28 pm
Boks by ten over Auss, ya heard it first at the mast matey!!
29 Aug 2012, 14:28 pm
@willievz-233: But they also know their players the best and they know when a player is in the right space or not.
@sharks_lover-234: It doesnt make any sense. i think he is under pressure and making rash decisions.
@The Bok Identity-235: Ja i also dont believe that for one minute.
29 Aug 2012, 14:28 pm
@Sasuke-229:
I guess they will see during the training sessions how fit they are. Duane played about 60 minutes last weekend and with two more weeks of training I reckon he should be ok for 40 minutes at least.
29 Aug 2012, 14:29 pm
and I thought guys wanted PDV to fail badly
29 Aug 2012, 14:30 pm
all the Crayfish………………………………
29 Aug 2012, 14:32 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-222: I’m certain you believe that wholeheartedly.
29 Aug 2012, 14:33 pm
50 minutes against Griquas is all the rugby that Goosen has played in the last 4 months and we want to involve him against Aus and Nz?
Heyneke is wasting the time of Goosen and Vermeulen. Currie Cup action would of served them 100 times better than this dumb selection by HM.
29 Aug 2012, 14:33 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-226:
bah humbug….
@NZINCHINA-228:
we will do things our way, thank you very much
and you are free to do things your way
i have every faith in heyneke meyer, remember when his bulls embarrased these low flying chiefs? he will find a way to get around dishonest kiwi illegality.
and when that day comes, it will be sweet to never hear from you again.
29 Aug 2012, 14:33 pm
@grant10-224:
Lets hope he starts or worst case is on the bench!
New you would be very excited about Flow joining up, question is will he start or even be on the bench
“While Duane and Johan are medically fit, their provincial coaches felt it necessary that they get more game time in the Currie Cup this weekend.
“However, as we don’t have a lot of time to prepare and we need as much time with them as possible to get them used to our structures and game plans, the decision was taken to select them for the tour.
Can’t really argue with that, I would expect them to come of the bench based on this though. If they are world class as we all believe they will ease back in quickly with this opportunity you would hope.
29 Aug 2012, 14:34 pm
@sharks_lover-234: F Louw has done a pre season…Bath were to play this Sat ….so he is probably better conditioned than most….but may lack match sharpness for sure….
But a halk crocked F Louw is better than anyone else in that squad as opensider….
29 Aug 2012, 14:36 pm
@mpundulu-244:
yes, you are correct.
29 Aug 2012, 14:36 pm
Would be lots and lots of pressure on Vermulin if he started.. Goosen may be included on the bench for first game at most. In an idea situation would have been better easing them back in on home leage as we all know, great opportunity for Flow again as well and JDJ..
29 Aug 2012, 14:36 pm
@Guns-237: Exactly, Kanko for aa few years was better than SPies, never got a chance bar a few minutes ahere and there, He then decides to taale a break from bneing a abench sitter, and suddenly the Bok coaach says he would have selected him had he not gone to Japan lol.
Trust me HM would not have selected Kanko, just as he wont drop Morne, someone will have to go break Morne’s legs for him not to be selected.
The Sharks coach that has been behind Lambies success for the past 4 years says Lambie is a 10, he helped out at 15 where needed, but he is a 10
HM and His sidekick Ricardo tries telling us Lambie is a 15 and not a 10, yet Lambie’s most successful time playing at the Sharks was at 10
Anyhows, enough rants i have always been of the opinion that a player does not select himself, so come the next test match whether i agree with selections or not i will support the Boks full steam.
29 Aug 2012, 14:36 pm
On another note,
I would also have called up Schalk Britz to replace Burden.
29 Aug 2012, 14:36 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-246:
don’t hold your breath
29 Aug 2012, 14:37 pm
@Robzim-241: 40 minutes to start or finish?
29 Aug 2012, 14:37 pm
@NZINCHINA-228: Damn fool. lol
29 Aug 2012, 14:37 pm
@grant10-248: Well hope ur right mate, trust me we need his skills with Bissy out
29 Aug 2012, 14:38 pm
For all we know Meyer has no plans on playing any of them and is just using pressure tackticks and BS to get his beef to beef up..
29 Aug 2012, 14:38 pm
@Puma-136: this is the funniest post you’ve ever jotted down on KEO
“Yip sounds very much like I am.
Disappointed for Keegan. He has hardly been given a chance Transie. Nor has Lambie he has splinters on his backside by now.”
29 Aug 2012, 14:38 pm
Vermeulen and Goosen should have been held back for home leg imo as well….
I just want to see M Steyn and JDV dropped….
And that Chabal Lite is not really up to it….
Then we back on track…
add guthro…Brussow…stir game plan….coc ktail for success
work function to attend…outta here
cheers all
fark I am a happy camper…
29 Aug 2012, 14:38 pm
@willievz-252: Stem saam, Bok span kannie sulke kak Sharks in hul geledere he niw
29 Aug 2012, 14:39 pm
Why is there so much uncertaintly amongst SA fans and their coach as to who should be playing where, especially in the back row we have had 1000′s of permutations here over the last few days, is it that hard to pick a back row and stick with it.
29 Aug 2012, 14:41 pm
Please HM, just drop Morne
I don’t want another 4 years of Grantie moaning (ala JS)
29 Aug 2012, 14:41 pm
@NZINCHINA-261: ther is only a couple a world class playerx in the back row. brussow, alberts and kolisi look the best but the rest fkin overhyped pansy faced losers. we got no 8s worth test rugby and a lot of just good players not many special players its going to take time tio find the right combo.
29 Aug 2012, 14:43 pm
louw?????????? bwahhahahahahahahahaha wat a loooooooozzaa!!! fkin scrapping the barrel i say and how can he be better than brussow??????? fkin sick joke. good on goosen and de jongh and please duane, please for god sake dont be another flopper i believe in you man!! go bokke!!!
29 Aug 2012, 14:44 pm
There is nothing in what HM has done or said that indicates he has a clear understanding of what he needs to do to beat the Ozzies or the AB’s. I don’t see any variation in the game plan on the field or ecnouragement in his selections that indicate he is willing to vary tactics to suit the players available or the opposition he is taking on. Every selection appears to be to plug what he perceives to be a gap/hole/weakness that has appeared during the last game.
For instanve he perceives that we were outmuscled at the breakdown so he brings in FLouw (by the way not a bad selection in itself). The fact that they were outsmarted rather than outmsucled escapes him. All the Argies were doing is ensuring that the ball carrier was brought to ground instantly to enable the assistant (holding) tackler to play the ball as an arriving player. His changes whilst in themselves potentially first choices simply indicate an inability to figure out a way to beat the opposition with the players he has chosen so instead it is time to change personnel, not exactly instilling confidence in his ability to outwit our opposition.
29 Aug 2012, 14:44 pm
welcome to the club of D@@S HM…………your predecessors in title………..NM: 17 test winning streak, tri-nations title and world cup semi-finalist by end of tenure was famously referred to as the mallet who broke the Boks……………..JW Tri Nations victory and world cup and No.1 ranking in the world now known as Jakey Snakey by some………….PDV Tri nations title series win over BIL and NO1 ranking………now thought of as a joke……….in fact every coach who ever coached the Boks …………….just remember you wanted this job, me woulda taken a fast car and some cash instead. In fact now I know why Francois Pienaar wanted a million US in an undisclosed account, maybe he was just taking the piss outa Riaan Oberholzer but I hope that you have a legal team that will milk SARU for as much as possible when the curtain comes down. Like Pissant said they wont let you succeed
29 Aug 2012, 14:45 pm
@Blitzbok-263:
the longer Brussow stays away the better, crazy not to select him
29 Aug 2012, 14:45 pm
Better squad, but I’d take anyone instead of Flip van der Merwe.
Literally anyone.
I’d even consider Hargreaves.
29 Aug 2012, 14:45 pm
@sharks_lover-251: kanko was better than spies in 2007 but that was it this cockhole has been totally p!ssed on by spies ever since and ever time kanko comes in his makes a complete aarse of himself. both are fkin no good now so why argue bout it? kanko and bissie are two biggest sharks fans wet dreams but are totally shytee
29 Aug 2012, 14:48 pm
@willievz-252:
yes. Schalk Britz has more x factor than all the backs in that squad put together!
Duane – longtime overdue. Should have being a Bok when he first emerged in OVS.
29 Aug 2012, 14:49 pm
Davon Raubenheimer ahead of Duane ..could never understand that
29 Aug 2012, 14:49 pm
@bananaboy-265: you are defo a stupid **** bananaboy meyer has got to work through our talent like jake did coz peter did a straeuli and totally fked up continuity. now we in a vuccum as legends have retired on mass and now we gotta have some pain to regain some continuity and establish some spine to the fkin team. it takes time and it doesnt help that most of these fukkers are not as good as everyone says bekker, bissie, etzebeth, kruger, jean and loads more just arent as good as the players they replaced. so we are stuck with a weaker team than before no matter who meyer selects. you ******** wanted the old boys kicked out now you fkin get it and start complaining, you saffers are as fking thick as pig shiit
29 Aug 2012, 14:50 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-209: shite! NOT THIS SHARKS fan!!!!! **** I cried for daysbwhen they announced HM as coach
and I was not upeased at all by his Sharks choices. But been proven right still doesn’t make HM a sweeter pill to swallow!!!!!
29 Aug 2012, 14:52 pm
@Blitzbok-264:
@NZINCHINA-267:
Brussouw’s still injured.
29 Aug 2012, 14:52 pm
His Heynekeness can you please explain how Goosen leapfrogs Lambie and Jantjies as back up flyhalf…especially since the 2 mentioned players have previously been on the bench as well. I have long since given up trying to figure out how Strauss overtook Chilliboy and how Potmeister overtook Kolisi to the starting line up.
29 Aug 2012, 14:53 pm
In 2008 PDivvy didnt get the job because he is black he got it because Heyneke is a poor coach.
29 Aug 2012, 14:55 pm
Happy with the squad now but I hope Heyneke starts Lambie instead of Sideshow Bob- it’s getting ridiculous now the number of caps this imposter is racking up.
29 Aug 2012, 14:55 pm
@The Bok Identity-275: lamvie and cornwad hankys are bollockz you nubstick both are biggest fkin jokes ever. goosen was the form fkin flyhalf this year grow a brain or pluck one out of your azz please before talking again
29 Aug 2012, 14:55 pm
@wpstormerbok-274:
when he recovers he should be picked, he was one guy that troubled the AB loosies every game
29 Aug 2012, 14:56 pm
@The Bok Identity-275: Chilli is injured mate, Kolisi should have been playing yes, in place of the flying Ninja with blou onderbroek
29 Aug 2012, 14:57 pm
put your money on
Duane
Alberts
Coetzee
29 Aug 2012, 14:57 pm
One of the best stories doing the rounds at the moment is like HM Robbie Deans is a poor coach…………….well for everybody who thinks that erm how many times have we beaten Auss recently? ja must be pretty k@k………………………………………..these okes who win Super Rugby titles palooka’s the whole lot I tells ya…………….that’s why everyone’s got em………………….
29 Aug 2012, 14:59 pm
Jano Vermaak – the invisible man
very underrated player
29 Aug 2012, 14:59 pm
@Captain Sam Vimes-282:
the Ab’s have farked his coaching stats, against the rest he’s done pretty well
29 Aug 2012, 15:00 pm
@Captain Sam Vimes-282: Robbie Deans is not a poor coach, not b y any stretch of the imagination
29 Aug 2012, 15:00 pm
@Captain Sam Vimes-282:
all went wrong for Deans when he dropped Matt Gitau
29 Aug 2012, 15:01 pm
HM will prove all you nay sayers wrong
29 Aug 2012, 15:01 pm
@greatest13gerber-286:
no it went wrong for him when he came up against the black wall
29 Aug 2012, 15:02 pm
@greatest13gerber-286: all went wrong wen he was hired!! hahaha i always said he was overrated the fukkker has been well exposed 51% ratio is fkin sad
29 Aug 2012, 15:03 pm
Daniels is very unlucky. Potgieter is a bit of a joke (as is HM for rating him).
29 Aug 2012, 15:03 pm
@Atlas-287: saffers are fkin stupid coz they dont have a education system and those who go school only need 30% to pass bwahahahaha ibig fat useless drunk fukz think they know everything useless fuki saffers.
29 Aug 2012, 15:04 pm
@greatest13gerber-286:
Tend to agree. Matt G is one of the finest players of the past 30 years.
Little fellow, but never went backwards, or missed tackles.
29 Aug 2012, 15:04 pm
@londonshark-290: potie is no better than the others but you must know that argies are the only other team that can really hit the boks hard up front so keep it in mind and argies couldnt get going either just one big smash fest
29 Aug 2012, 15:05 pm
@Blitzbok-291:
Are you typing on your phone?
29 Aug 2012, 15:05 pm
@londonshark-292: yeah gits was a big fk up lost many games for aussies thats why he was dropped this fukkker thought he was the team all by himself bwahahaha
29 Aug 2012, 15:06 pm
@londonshark-294: yes i am and proud of it so do one pal
29 Aug 2012, 15:06 pm
@Blitzbok-289:
lol bit harsh but lets not forget he was assistant to…..John Mitchell – AB coach.
@londonshark-292:
Totatlly agree. Matt Gitau one of most complete 10s, 12s I have seen play.
29 Aug 2012, 15:08 pm
@Blitzbok-293:
Mmm, not sure hey. NZL’s forwards won’t battle against the Argies. Our forwards simply can’t dominate at test level, and never have since 92. This a serious worry, seeing as HM’s gameplan depends on our forwards beating the ^%&^%&^% out of the opposition.
29 Aug 2012, 15:08 pm
@Blitzbok-296:
Lol. Fair enough. Then I forgive you for your ‘sms language’.
29 Aug 2012, 15:09 pm
@NZINCHINA-284: yeppers you buggers have handed everyone one there jacks repeatedly with only 2009 being any blemish on your record. I think RD a fantastic coach who had had limited player reserves to work with, to be honest how he even put competitive forward packs on the filed is amazing. HM likewise working with limited players skills wise but suddenly expected to revolutionize Bok rugby and have them playing with the flair of the french in their glory days in five games.
I mean their is reality and then their is non reality which I am starting to believe that most of SA live in. The conservative game plan is so **** that the Stormers won the overall log with it………….and ran out of players at the death to go all the way. So ja pull the other one its got bells on………….
29 Aug 2012, 15:11 pm
@londonshark-298:
agree with that. We havent dominated since Uli Schmidt retired..took a tighthead against Fitzpatrick in 92.
Jannie needs go. Heinkie vd Merwe is still the most destructive loosehood IMO
29 Aug 2012, 15:11 pm
@The Bok Identity-275: They do not fit the profile of the rugby culture/gameplan that Meyer is busy developing…
29 Aug 2012, 15:11 pm
BJ Botha
29 Aug 2012, 15:13 pm
@mpundulu-220: the incredabrain is going to make bok supporter hate heyneke
the unfortunate thing about being an active coach is that it is highly not advisable to come out and be honest about tactical faux pas…i don’t recall even wayne or GH ever saying “we got the gameplan wrong and they exposed us”
29 Aug 2012, 15:13 pm
@Blitzbok-291:
My uncle also told me not to get into a “debate” with a drunk poepol
So go ahead and spew
29 Aug 2012, 15:13 pm
@Captain Sam Vimes-300: you are right saffers are stupid they dont know fk all about their players or rugby in general. just expect to roll over everyone. just read that stupid fkin article by the other big fat bald ******* keo on here saying the boks have been kak but fk we played a stern test series against england and then two really hard slug fests against the argies who nearly always make life hard for us. a litle reality is a good thing maybe saffer land is not centre of the universe and maybe our opponents can fkin play a bit of fkin rugby, no way we woulda beat argie in that game under peter not a fkin chance in hell!! stupid ***** saffer dogs
29 Aug 2012, 15:14 pm
@Captain Sam Vimes-300:
Your Stormers comment holds no water. The Stormers ruled with their defense. The Bok defense is nowhere near as good as the Stormers. Plus they had players to compete at the breakdown.
And don’t say HM doesn’t have the talent to do well. Jake White took the Boks from 6th to 1st in the world with a pretty average team (even Victor and co were youngsters back then).
Hell, Jake had ‘the wet Barry’, Marius Joubert, ’90m droppie Jaco’, slow coach Paulse etc etc. And he won the 3N with smart coaching.
HM is not coaching smart at the moment.
29 Aug 2012, 15:14 pm
@Transformation-304: yeah he did graham did in 2004 and in 2009 hahahaha short fkin memory pal
29 Aug 2012, 15:16 pm
@greatest13gerber-286:
agreed he is/was really good.
giteau dropped himself though with his poor run of form during the time the ab’s were building up the big unbeaten winning margin against them.
really gave deans no choice cos he was under fire too.
29 Aug 2012, 15:16 pm
@Blitzbok-272: So where did you say you bought your matric certificate ( if you have one) you might want to think about returning it. In a country with way more playing resources than our opposition , you want to tell me that HM cannot select a squad that he can work with from teh outset and turn into a winning squad. Well either he got his initial squad selection wrong (based on the playing style he wanted to play) or he cannot coach players into playing a style (irrespective of where they play their rugby) that he wants that is aimed at outwitting our opponents.
It has nothing to do with players retiring , we all understand that and will be willing to give him the grace to develop the squad however he has indicated by his recent outbursts and selection changes that he does not know what game plan he wants to use and will use the spate of injuries he curently has as an excuse to play around with the combo’s until it clicks.
Tell me how many of the AB’s current squad were in the WC winninfg squad %age wise?- have they not also had personnel changes
29 Aug 2012, 15:17 pm
@Blitzbok-308:
Yep.the All Black side of 2004 was tactically aweful.
I remember them trying to run the ball from everywhere, and the Boks just waiting for them, and turning them over.
2009, they were even worse. The basically commited suicide in the Durban test.
29 Aug 2012, 15:18 pm
@londonshark-307: barry was fkin awesome and so was jaco in 2004 and we had a great fullback and du preez was a genius. iot was a lot more solid in 2004 player wise legends in that squad fk bakkies, matfield, os, smit, du preez, monty, joubert, barry, schalk, big joe thats a fkin awesome player list. jakey put together the plan meyer has less to work with and peter left a bigger hole than straeuli. bok defence has improve massively under meyer so much better than snor days. meyer just needs brussow thats the ONLY fkin mistake he is really maing the rest are just not as good a player as the old boys. si9mple as fkin that.
29 Aug 2012, 15:19 pm
@londonshark-298:
we’ll get parity and then run them off their feet with superior fitness levels
@Captain Sam Vimes-300:
Robbie and the Wallabies have waved the white flag and surrendered to the Ab’s horrible to listen to actually post match. Yip HM has his work cut out its been a while since the Bokke won anything and thats not going to change overnight
29 Aug 2012, 15:19 pm
@bananaboy-310: you are so fkin stupid dont fkin ever talk to me again little twatt
29 Aug 2012, 15:21 pm
@londonshark-311: graham got it wrong last year as well he went run crazy in the tri nations decider he always tried that from time to time and it always bombed him out of the water but thats what the bok fans want to play like hahaha peter tried it and it fked us up and dont forget that fagggot viljoen! now they want meyer to do it as well,. stupid useless fukz
29 Aug 2012, 15:23 pm
@Blitzbok-312:
Mmm, Barry was great on defense, nothing more. Jaco, while he showed some flair, had more brainfarts than NZL come WC time.
Du Preez was a rookie, who only really matured in 2006/7. In fact, many people felt Ruan had his number back then.
Big Joe, phaaaa, average average average. Only ever exceled up north.
Some names on your list sound good because you remembering them at their peak (2007,8,9). With Jake (in 2004), they were raw.
29 Aug 2012, 15:26 pm
@Blitzbok-315:
Lol, no one want’s the Viljoen Boks back. But every gameplan must be balanced.
It’s like what people were saying to the Stormers. No one expected them to play 7′s, but a little flair every now and again might have got them to the title.
Same with the Boks. Keep it tight, but use your backs when the time is right.
29 Aug 2012, 15:26 pm
There was no peaking in 08′.
29 Aug 2012, 15:28 pm
@londonshark-316: um no you stupid wankpuppet barry was massive ball in hand in 2004 thats why we had the best attack you dummy. jaco went off the boil in 2006 actually
2004 du preez was massive dumb dumb he made two bok tries out of nothing against new zealand
stupid fked up dog ballz you have in your head big joe was our last test 8 fukwad man we miss this guy
i remember 2004 you arseholee dont make fukfaced assumptions cocklicker
29 Aug 2012, 15:29 pm
What is wrong with Elton Jantjies? I guess Meyer is only comfortable with working with players of a certain culture. And this will ultimately be his downfall.
In addition is Meyer turning into the new Straueli?
29 Aug 2012, 15:29 pm
@Blitzbok-315:
It’s funny how Henry is remembered as this saint of a coach, when in reality, he came within a whisker of blowing the 2011 WC as well. But, he won it, and that’s all that history will remember.
Same with Jake to a degree was well. 49-0 losses to the dingos. Massive loses to NZL. Losing to Ireland a couple times etc.
But, he won the WC.
29 Aug 2012, 15:30 pm
@bananaboy-310:
Leave him. Anybody who curse to get his point across is not worthy
29 Aug 2012, 15:30 pm
@Blitzbok-308: 2009? GH blamed his players and their inconsistent execution… think before laughing Alucard
29 Aug 2012, 15:32 pm
@Transformation-323:
09′ was a very weak AB side, we had no locks and didnt win anyball
29 Aug 2012, 15:32 pm
@Blitzbok-319:
Lol, you actually quite amusing.
Nah, big Joe is one of those guys who magically plays well in the NH, because the standard is so much lower.
Only Percy came back a better player. Everyone else takes 3-6 months to come right again.
FDP was good, but not the best in the world yet. That came later.
Barry had his moments, but JDV and JF should have replaced the Wet Barry and Joubert sooner (instead they had to wait until 2005).
29 Aug 2012, 15:33 pm
So with the squad at our disposal I thinl we hat to start with
15-lambie
14-habana
13de villiers
12-fsteyn
11-mvovo
10-msteyn
9-pienaar
8-vermeulen
7-alberts
6-coetzee
5-kruger
4-etzebeth
3-cilliers
2-strauss
1-mtawarira
16-liebenberg
17-greyling
18-potgieter/bekker
19-louw
20-hougaard
21-goosen
22-de jong
If kirchner is to play I’d swop morne with lambie… But I think our subs would be devestating in last 20
29 Aug 2012, 15:33 pm
@NZINCHINA-324:
Didn’t help Matfield was a Jedi back then either
29 Aug 2012, 15:34 pm
@Blitzbok-314:
29 Aug 2012, 15:35 pm
@londonshark-327:
that is true, oh how he is going to be missed by the Bokke going forward once in a generation player
29 Aug 2012, 15:35 pm
Please heineke don’t waste lambie on being bench-based… He is to good a flucking player
29 Aug 2012, 15:35 pm
English Capt Strauss has retired from all forms of cricket
29 Aug 2012, 15:35 pm
@xtremebull-326:
I would seriously consider Hougie on the wing (starting in place of Mvovo). Lambie to 10 as well.
29 Aug 2012, 15:36 pm
@sharks_lover-331:
he obviously couldn’t be bothered with all the shite that goes with it, hes made plenty good on him
29 Aug 2012, 15:36 pm
@xtremebull-326: Tend to agree with you for the most, but i dont think that is how they will play.
29 Aug 2012, 15:37 pm
@NZINCHINA-329:
Yep, we honestly got used to stealing 40% plus of all ball in the lineout. Was freaky actually.
I honestly think that he’s the best 5 of all time. Yes, better than John E (even if he could place kick).
29 Aug 2012, 15:38 pm
@xtremebull-326:
F Steyn should be your 15, wasted at 12
29 Aug 2012, 15:38 pm
@NZINCHINA-333: Yeah , He said it has nothing to do with the KP thing, but im sure it does
29 Aug 2012, 15:39 pm
@NZINCHINA-336:
Starting to think so too. Frans is a great 12, but offers so much at 15. His boot is better utilized too.
29 Aug 2012, 15:39 pm
@londonshark-335:
was big Vic as good around the track as Eales? I still have nightmares of him putting the penalty over with 1/2 second to go in a Bledisloe a decade ago
29 Aug 2012, 15:39 pm
@londonshark-321: Henry had a 86% win ratio over 8 years, show me a coach in rugby remotely close to that…in the world of sport i reckon vincent de bosque is close to that or above…
29 Aug 2012, 15:42 pm
@sharks_lover-337:
hows that KP what a w anker
@londonshark-338:
Dagg has a massive clearing kick from 15 like Steyn, when we get in the shite his clearances are gold
29 Aug 2012, 15:45 pm
@londonshark-325: “Nah, big Joe is one of those guys who magically plays well in the NH, because the standard is so much lower.”
i find this very confusing, you’re saying big joe does well overseas cos the “standard is that much lower” – and this is a view you share with even tacitus – BUT heyneke in his justification of the draw in mendoza told us that people in SA underestimated the argies whose player “play in europe – Aviva and Top14 – and thus have experience”
which is it? are european leagues weak meaning their players are below par compared to NZ, SA and AUS?
29 Aug 2012, 15:47 pm
@sharks_lover-337: Think it does too.
29 Aug 2012, 15:47 pm
@NZINCHINA-341: agreed, prodigious boot and follows it up with SOLID chases!
izzy dagg, super class!
29 Aug 2012, 15:47 pm
@sharks_lover-331: so Smith has ended the career of a 3rd Pom captain – nice
29 Aug 2012, 15:48 pm
@Puma-343:
feeling confident for the Perth game, a must win!!
29 Aug 2012, 15:50 pm
@Transformation-344:
he’s going to score plenty of tries that boy, not sure if he’ll overtake the one and only C Cullen for outright attack time will tell
29 Aug 2012, 15:54 pm
Transie
Izzy has a superior skillset to Cullen,awesome player
But
Cullen is the greatest attacking player/runner in modern era
He scored 10 tries vs Boks
He was to SA what Lomu was to England.Owned us and dialed up Bok number regularly
29 Aug 2012, 15:54 pm
@NZINCHINA-347: he doesn’t have the top-end pace of cullen but he makes up for it with ingenuity…
29 Aug 2012, 15:54 pm
@NZINCHINA-339:
Ha ha, I remember that game. I even woke up for it at 4:00am here in SA.
Matfield was good around the park (not as good as JE), but the value he added in the lineouts was just so massive.
29 Aug 2012, 15:56 pm
@mshiniwami-348: dagg in his short career not far back, recall his heroics in 2010 scored both away when he made spies look kak in nz and @ soccer city…
29 Aug 2012, 15:56 pm
@NZINCHINA-346: It is a must win game. At this stage not feeling that confident. Well both teams have to win. So both under pressure. Will see who gets selected.
29 Aug 2012, 15:59 pm
@Transformation-342:
Firstly, I don’t listen to Meyer
So his comments don’t hold any weight with me.
Are the Argies better off from playing in Europe? Yep. Would they be EVEN better if they played Super Rugby, HELL YES.
So yes, I believe that SA players thrive because the standard is lower in the NH.
29 Aug 2012, 16:00 pm
Who is it that p isses on Blitzbok’s battery every day
Magtag daai man is onbeskof.
29 Aug 2012, 16:00 pm
Dagg will be under pressure I. A few yrs from Smith,Taylor
But he has the most outrageous feet in the game
Amazing how he’s able to make defends stick/fix them the burst away.in SA they’d say u showing off,just catch and kick
29 Aug 2012, 16:01 pm
@mshiniwami-348:
Ja, Cullen scared the sh*t out of. Still the strongest pound for pound player the AB’s have ever produced (from what I’ve heard).
He had scary pace too. One of the few players who had a 6th gear, with afer-burners if needed.
29 Aug 2012, 16:02 pm
@Dawn-354:
Puberty.
29 Aug 2012, 16:03 pm
Great to see Duane and the Goose getting caps. Just hope they are physically ready. Would hate to see one or both of them picking up a long term injury because they’ve been thrown in too early.
Regarding foreign-based players, Francois Louw is a great addition. Fantastic player… I would be tempted to call up Schalk Britz as well.
On a less positive note, there are some real concerns over Ricardo Loubscher’s aptitude at test level. Our backline is really lacking creativity and even worse cohesion. The only penetration we seem to be getting is through our forwards. On one hand, Morné Steyn takes some responsibility here, but less obvious is that Ricardo Loubscher has proven very ineffectual in getting the Springboks to break the line…. The All Blacks are experts at off-loading in the tackle (when its on). We need to get better at this. I would also like to see dummy runners and more variety from our flyhalf. Variety will keep the opposition guessing. We are currently too predictable,
29 Aug 2012, 16:04 pm
@NZINCHINA-336: One can make a very good argument for employing him at 15 versus the ABs.
His ever-presence as a drop kick threat from long distance will discourage kicking of any sort by the AB back three and Carter.
29 Aug 2012, 16:04 pm
Nothing wrong with players available for Boks
Meyer gameplan and squad selection is the problem
Kicking 70% of ball away will not win u games
Making 150 tackles with scramble D will win you your odd desperation home test
29 Aug 2012, 16:05 pm
@londonshark-356:
I remember the rumours swirling around NZ when he was first starting out that he was going to be very very special and then he launched his career at the HK sevens when he scored a try from under his own sticks the length of the field, he was badly treated in the end though
29 Aug 2012, 16:05 pm
@John Galt-50: Exactly what I thought. Though do think Vermuelen is a better player than Potgieter. Keegan just brings something different.
29 Aug 2012, 16:08 pm
@willievz-359:
he’s a good 12 but he’s never going to be great there better at 15 , I doubt that would stop the AB back 3 kicking its an integral part of our game plan, does Kirchner have a decent punt on him?
29 Aug 2012, 16:09 pm
Hahahaha
Strauss resigns as England skipper.
Biff retires his THIRD England skipper.
Told you fuckers.
29 Aug 2012, 16:09 pm
@Puma-362:
Puma no offence intended but Potgieter is farken hopeless
29 Aug 2012, 16:11 pm
@gunther-364:
Strauss was a great servant of the game, why do you find that so funny?
29 Aug 2012, 16:12 pm
How long before Meyer sees the light and installs Frankie Hougaard at 15? He is so wasted at 9 it’s laughable.
South Africas Christian Cullen.
29 Aug 2012, 16:12 pm
A loose trio of:
6. Flouw
7. Alberts
8. Vermeulen
Now that is a good combination…
29 Aug 2012, 16:13 pm
@NZINCHINA-365: hahahaha. I know have said so here. Be careful some will come after you….hehehe.
He should not be there mate not at all. I would have kept Keegan. I suppose his body just not the right frame for this mindless crash ball dumb rugby we playing right now. I suppose Meyer don’t really value a player with skills that Keegan brings. Damn shame that.
29 Aug 2012, 16:13 pm
For the life of me i have no idea where keegan daniels et al were for the first 8 odd weeks of superrugby….the sharkies werent any good then. In fact allthe supporters wanted plumtree gone albeit now he is the man with the plan.
29 Aug 2012, 16:14 pm
@NZINCHINA-363: It stopped you in 2009. Well, you curtailed your kicking a lot more.
Kirchner is a solid player who can kick a good aerial bomb, but there is very little to choose between him and another player when it comes to general kicking.
I’ve never seen him kick a drop kick from 15.
In fact, other candidates for the 15 berth arguably offer a much wider skillset than him.
I would really like to see Andries Coetzee from the Lions introduced in the Bok systems. Deceptive runner who can attack close channels effectively, he also offers a left boot, and as a former flyhalf he also does not lack in the vision stakes.
I do not think comparisons with Israel Dagg on attack are farfetched.
29 Aug 2012, 16:14 pm
@Gumboots-368: Good for the rugby plan we want to play. Happy with it but that is a seriously slow loose trio.
29 Aug 2012, 16:15 pm
@gunther-364:
So you told us fuckers
So?
29 Aug 2012, 16:16 pm
@Puma-369:
his body position is all wrong, the Crusaders had a field day with him in the super play offs held him up and stole the ball and he’s hardly the offloading flashy ball carrier with silky skills is he, you need Brussow back
29 Aug 2012, 16:16 pm
It’s a unique feat in sporting history.
Fukkoff and go and find another leg to hump my China.
Here’s 10$ go sort yourself out and come back when you’re feeling better you dour pri.ck.
29 Aug 2012, 16:17 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-370:
You dare question the genius that is Keegan
29 Aug 2012, 16:18 pm
I agree with Kaizan’s post. He is spot on, except perhaps for his views on Morne Steyn. Steyn is merely an average one-dimensional player, reasonable behind a dominant pack and useless when they are under pressure. He fits the bill for Heyneke Meyer “game plan” because of the antiquated “kick and charge and hope for the best” type rugby. Israel Dagg and Sonny Bill Williams are going to run rings around [and through] the Bok backline. I expect a record defeat.
29 Aug 2012, 16:19 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-370: He was still a very good player those few weeks we lost. Remember we were without Alberts and Beast at the time and no Kanko either. Once those players came back it all made a difference.
Keegan together with Marcell are the two best at off-loading out of any player in any of our conferences. Keegan the best though. So he goes so does the skills. Our game plan don’t warrant skills anyhow. Better Keegan comes back to the Sharks and help us win the Currie Cup.
29 Aug 2012, 16:21 pm
@gunther-375:
was just asking why you would find that so funny, you’re very abusive are you having a bad day?
29 Aug 2012, 16:21 pm
@wimbo-377: Wimbo I agree with you about Morné… I think he’s very limited. Just think we need to keep an eye on the coaching staff because they are the less obvious culprits of the ineffective backline we’ve had this year so far.
29 Aug 2012, 16:21 pm
There are many Messianic players in the Shorks setup.
Steyn was the first (the hairy Franky) and now the beatified Keegan.
These players walk on water.
29 Aug 2012, 16:24 pm
@mshiniwami-355: willie le roux has the same “goose step” and accelaration but he is too flashy for Mzantsi
29 Aug 2012, 16:24 pm
@NZINCHINA-374: Potgieter don’t have skills mate. He is a crash ball type of player and that is it.
I am scared your Blacks are gonna give my Boks a thrashing. I hope not. Hope the test against Oz is a lot better and by the time we get to play the Blacks we are far better prepared. I just doubt it. Your team looking in a class of their own. Our game plan is so one dimensional. We gonna be taken to the cleaners I feel. I hope I am wrong.
29 Aug 2012, 16:25 pm
@Dawn-381: Especially true when they play the Western Cape teams.
29 Aug 2012, 16:26 pm
@Kaizan-380: Meyer should have brought in Carlos Spencer when Lions released him.
29 Aug 2012, 16:27 pm
@Transformation-382: Very good player.
29 Aug 2012, 16:27 pm
@Finfan-384:
Indeed.
How many Western Cape teams are there again?
29 Aug 2012, 16:28 pm
@Puma-383:
I doubt we’ll take you to the cleaners on the scoreboard as that doesnt happen very often, the Aussies are going to be desperate as well big big clash
29 Aug 2012, 16:29 pm
So basicallY….heneke has told all players to stop passing and offloading?
Errrm yes. Of course he has.
29 Aug 2012, 16:29 pm
I’m having a superb day China.
Breaking necks and cashing checks.
Another night in on the troll for you?
That’s three this week.
Now get me some noodles.
29 Aug 2012, 16:30 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-389:
clearly he’s told Potgieter that
29 Aug 2012, 16:30 pm
@Dawn-387: The Sharks play the Stormers and Western Province. You also have Boland in the Western Cape. Where are you from? Google Maps might provide interesting reading for you.
29 Aug 2012, 16:30 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-389: Colonel, did you enjoy that draw against the superpower that is Argentina?
29 Aug 2012, 16:31 pm
351….
Dean greyling threw dagg the dummy of the season just a while back.
Oh…and just a few minutes after that potgieter used him as a speed bump.
….not to flash is our israel under pressure when he needs to make the tackle.
29 Aug 2012, 16:33 pm
@NZINCHINA-388: Two big games for my Boks. Aussies are desperate as us to win. If we do win that we will be coming with more confidence to Dunedin. But after watching your team against Oz doubt many would beat them. Thought Boks from the start would be the only team and probably only at FNB. Now not so sure anymore. We may beat the Aussies who knows. We could play a different game as well have not a clue what Meyer is thinking.
29 Aug 2012, 16:33 pm
Google maps
:lol;
29 Aug 2012, 16:34 pm
@gunther-390:
why is it that everything comes back to getting sorted with a handy shandy etc etc with you just asking as you always go on about this type of thing why is that? an underlying issue?
29 Aug 2012, 16:34 pm
@Finfan-392:
Tugging your fin
I live here!
29 Aug 2012, 16:35 pm
@willievz-371: Hey Willie. We might not see eye to eye on Vermeulen, but we definitely both approve of Andries Coetzee. Seems like a player who does the simple things well and doesn’t over-complicate. Also seems to have extra time to make good decisions. All good players have this ability. I’ve also been pleasantly suprised with Jurgen Visser. Playing some decent rugby. Suppose it helps that the Bulls are playing good rugby as well. While the Boks are seemingly short on a proper backline coach, sure slappes can do a job?
29 Aug 2012, 16:35 pm
393….not really did you.
But then. Manchester lost to that suprpower everton because in sport. Sometimes if not all the time shithappens despite the strengh of a team on paper.
29 Aug 2012, 16:37 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-389: I don’t think so. Probably just hold onto it, run into the the player in front and go to ground. That is probably more like it. I hardly see us pass let alone off-loading.
29 Aug 2012, 16:38 pm
@Puma-395:
Got a mate going to the FNB test he can’t wait to soak up the atmosphere there.
29 Aug 2012, 16:41 pm
@NZINCHINA-402: Where do you watch the games in China?
I lived for a year in Germany, and had to travel 20 minutes by train to a neighbouring city which had an English pub with Sky Sports.
29 Aug 2012, 16:42 pm
@NZINCHINA-402: Magnificent stadium. Will be sold out for sure. Holds 95 000 atmosphere will be awesome. Do hope it will be a great game. If we can beat Oz in Perth and here at Loftus then think we will be up for a fight at FNB…hahaha. Hoping. Really want to see a good contest and not let it be one sided.
29 Aug 2012, 16:43 pm
@stew-4: Big Joe is battling to keep his Toulon place, he had a tough time with injury last season. He’s playing okay at present but not quite test form.
Louw hasn’t played an official match this season, but I guess Meyer thinks fetchers are okay so long as they’re 6ft 2 and 18st
29 Aug 2012, 16:44 pm
@willievz-403:
no sport cables channel where I live, I just take a feed of the net there are so many now, was in Australia on holiday for the first test and watched the game in far north east queensland it was a little embarassing though as the pub was 80% full of kiwis!
29 Aug 2012, 16:45 pm
@Puma-404:
the last game there was epic, one sided games like last Saturday are no good
29 Aug 2012, 16:47 pm
@Big Hit-405: That is a worry. Read someone here say that Louw had been injured as well. Now no game time either.
29 Aug 2012, 16:47 pm
@Brigadier Van Zyl-370: keegan thrives in the open spaces of super rugby defence but is slightly out of his depth in Test rugby where the spaces are a small to non-existent…he is the saffa version of adam thomson and pre-2012 liam messam… there or thereabout.
29 Aug 2012, 16:47 pm
@Dawn-398: Don’t tug my fin, Capey.
Just getting tired to read how biased all the Sharks fans are. Our players are truly brilliant and do walk on water so we get a little upset when all of them aren’t in the Bok squad.
29 Aug 2012, 16:48 pm
@Transformation-409:
He’s small enough to squeeze through
29 Aug 2012, 16:48 pm
@Transformation-409:
Messam has stepped up this year, if he can sort out his option taking he’ll do just nicely I reckon
29 Aug 2012, 16:49 pm
@Finfan-410:
That’s exactly why I tug your fin!
29 Aug 2012, 16:49 pm
@NZINCHINA-407: I hope it is another epic. I hope the game at Dunedin is a epic too. The way it should be between ABs and Boks. Who knows we may have a blinder in Perth. Doubt it but we may. Will have to see from there what to expect at Dunedin. That too is a impressive Stadium. Not as huge as FNB but a beautiful stadium. Think that was the best stadium for the wc that I saw last year. Well thought so looking at it from a tv.
29 Aug 2012, 16:50 pm
409….lol
The shsrkies are going to have you now.
29 Aug 2012, 16:50 pm
Zane Kircher
Jano Vermaak
Jacques Potgieter
Morne Steyn are useless, they don’t deserve to be in springbok jersey.
Elton Jantjies should have some game time.
Gio Aplon is a better player than Zane Kircher at any level.
Ricardo Loubscher useless, coached tukkies , now springbok back line coach.
Johann van Graan, another useless blue bulls forward coach.
John McFarland useless, defence coach.
If Meyer truly believes in surroumding himself with the best.
Todd Louden backs coach.
Jacques Nienaber, defence coach.
Gert Smal forwards coach.
Meyer is settling for mediocrity, just look at his selections, Zane Kircher, compared to NZ Israel Dagg, Springboks are going to get hammered by Australia and NZ, useless neaderthal blue bulls style rugby.
They should get Brian Mujati in England for some scrummage power.
29 Aug 2012, 16:51 pm
If anyone deserves to reach the top in life its this kid – what a tremendous outlook on life in SA considering our history and where he has come from – a genuine ambassador.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19345289
29 Aug 2012, 16:52 pm
@Puma-414:
never been to a test in Dunedin too farken cold, its a small stadium but so is Dunedins population so a good fit, under cover as well so expect open running rugby from our boys I hate to say it Puma but i’d really like to bury you down there he he
29 Aug 2012, 16:54 pm
@Transformation-409: You are implying that you don’t get or create space in Internationals to the extent you get in super rugby. I would argue that you should aim to do so and thinking of the AB’s they seem to be able to do so.
29 Aug 2012, 16:56 pm
@bananaboy-419:
quick recycled ball is the key, Aaron Smith you little gem Piri and Ellis just weren’t quick enough Smith has made a big diffence with his passing game, IMO thats where Hougaard lets your boys down his clearance is just a little slow
29 Aug 2012, 16:57 pm
Vermeulen and JDJ are very good additions. Flo is an EXCELLENT addition.
That’s about where the positives end.
Potgieter is useless.
ANd Kirchner is about the 30th best fullback in the country. I’d pull Balie Swart out of retirement and play him ahead of that floppy-haired, skop-en-jag, campo shuffle when I FINALLY join the line and then get moered and die with the ball artist.
Seriously. Anybody who thinks Kirchner deserves to be anywhere near that Jersey has Potgieters in his head.
29 Aug 2012, 16:59 pm
@NZINCHINA-420:
Play Pienaar.
29 Aug 2012, 16:59 pm
@bananaboy-417: Nice article.
29 Aug 2012, 17:00 pm
@NZINCHINA-406: I really do enjoy the live feed streams, and the ability to watch the game anywhere in the world (with an internet connection!).
29 Aug 2012, 17:01 pm
@NZINCHINA-418: I know you would all like to bury us down there. I am scared your team may. Really want to see a close fought contest between our teams. Like it should be. For now have my doubts. Hope I am wrong. Will see how we go in the Perth test.
29 Aug 2012, 17:01 pm
@Finfan-410:
29 Aug 2012, 17:02 pm
@NZINCHINA-420:
“Just a little slow”? You’re very diplomatic my friend, but Hougaard has been slower than a glacier clearing the rucks.
That’s when he’s not forming a human centipede, or using that little dummy-mik to try ang put players in an offside position (only to still be charged down).
Whilst Du Preez could drop his box kicks on a dime, Hougaard would miss a heli-pad.
Sorry- but he has too many flaws in his game at the moment to be starting ahead of Pienaar.
29 Aug 2012, 17:02 pm
@Leatherdust-422:
Hougaard looks a little out of his depth as an international scrummie his option taking and pass need a lot of work, throw him on the wing he was very good there at the WC
29 Aug 2012, 17:02 pm
@pompies2-399: Sorry Pompies, missed this post. Hope you are well?
I am really exited by Coetzee, but at the same time depressed that the selectors do not seem to be as exited!
I am still confused as to what exactly Ricardo does on a day to day basis at the Boks.
29 Aug 2012, 17:03 pm
@Big Hit-405: So when last did Flo play?
29 Aug 2012, 17:04 pm
@Puma-425: We have done well in Perth (Perthfontein) of late, Puma.
But I too do not expect too many fireworks from this Bok squad.
29 Aug 2012, 17:06 pm
From the squad selected, let’s hope the Heineken goes as follows;
5. Kruger / 2nd stanza Bekker who had a shocker !
6. Flo
7. Coetsee
8. Alberts / with Vermeulen playing the last 20/ 30 mins against tiring legs.
9. Pienaar / maybe in Hougie the last 20mins… He’ll need to work hard on his vision, and what runners to pick out when passing.
10. Morne.., if anything to knock over penalties in the close part of the contest / with Goosen playing the last 20/ 30 earning his intro into the test arena.
13. J Div / replaced by De Jongh early in the 2nd half….. De Villiers has been slipping off tackles at an alarming rate as of late.
15. I’d start Aplon……., still very much maintain that he’s our best broken field runner, with an adequate left boot to punt for touch. Is he a lot smaller in stature then Dagg, Beale ? I believe not, and he offers similar qualities.
29 Aug 2012, 17:07 pm
The problem is that HM is not selecting the right COMBINATIONS. The team should’ve been:
F Steyn (he is a better fullback than Zane), JP (I know he is injured) and Mvovo as wings, Jordaan and Whitehead in the centres, Lambie and Mcleod at 10 and 9, HMs front row is OK, although Burden is better than Strauss, Bressler and Alberts at lock and Daniels, Coetzee and Kankowski as the loosies.
29 Aug 2012, 17:07 pm
@NZINCHINA-412: i agree that’s why i sais “pre-2012 messam”
@bananaboy-419: defences in international rugby are not as loose as the cheetahs, waratahs, force, highlanders, bulls, blues etc…
goodness me bananaboy, the team that tightened up their defence – stormers – won FOURTEEN games out of 16 without scoring one bonus point…
compare that with the rampant all blacks on the weekend only scoring 22pts try even though they were all over Aus!
no comparison mate
29 Aug 2012, 17:08 pm
@willievz-424:
pain in the ars e if the stream is no good though, during the WC final last few minutes my stream kept freezing and I had no idea what was happening mate that wasvery tough lol
@Puma-425:
a point will do it thats good enough for me and probably wrapping up the RC at the same time
@Vetkoek-427:
we had some real issues at 9 when Marshall left now we have 3 great young 9′s coming through, who else could step up in SA?
29 Aug 2012, 17:09 pm
And all tests should be played at the tank
29 Aug 2012, 17:11 pm
msunu in china will be dissapointed if his mate only has good things to say about the fnb stadium in soweto…
29 Aug 2012, 17:22 pm
@Puma-430: At John’s Barmy’s Army game
29 Aug 2012, 17:30 pm
@willievz-119: the BBC gave Danie Rossouw man of the match
29 Aug 2012, 17:41 pm
@Big Hit-439: check my post later where i mention to willie that pakslae was throwing sbw type offloads in that match…
29 Aug 2012, 17:52 pm
@Finfan-433:
@bananaboy-417: Excellent article, our country needs more young men with that kind of vision and understanding.
Needless to say he is a very smart young man
29 Aug 2012, 17:54 pm
@Big Hit-439: Yes, that’s right. Danie was very good in that game.
@Transformation-440: Don’t know if you remember, but Joe van Niekerk scored a cracker of a try against Uruguay in WC2003 where the young Pakslae ran a beaut of a line and controlled the ball with one hand.
He had the handling skills, but never really dominated a tackle situation in the carry.
Didn’t he play as a 10 at school?
29 Aug 2012, 17:54 pm
Well done to Duane and Johan – super talents both of them.
Still have my reservations on the decision though.
29 Aug 2012, 17:57 pm
But for all things holy, htf Jacques Potgieter still finds himself there is mystifying.
29 Aug 2012, 18:00 pm
@PissAnt-444: I’ve not come across a single blogger, supporter, rugby writer or commentator that rate him.
Apart from Heyneke, and Hugh Bladen.
29 Aug 2012, 18:05 pm
@willievz-445:
Bud I can usually find some reason or possible reason a coach rates a player, even the most shocking of selections. I have tried every single scenario in this case and I cannot come up with one single reason this guy is in the Bok squad. Not one.
29 Aug 2012, 18:06 pm
@willievz-429:
> I am still confused as to what exactly Ricardo does on a day to day basis at the Boks
He goes to Kfc toe get lunch and after a long day in the sun he fetches the beer from the fridge, HM has no other fetcher
29 Aug 2012, 18:07 pm
@victoriabok-447: Yup he is Hm’s gofa
29 Aug 2012, 18:08 pm
@PissAnt-444:
He’s the quota player form the Kings
29 Aug 2012, 18:08 pm
@willievz-445:
And our resident Meyer groupie – Tacitus
29 Aug 2012, 18:09 pm
@Stawm-450:
29 Aug 2012, 18:10 pm
@maximus1-416: Agree with everything you said. Meyer’s surrounded himself with a poor coaching staff (being unproven at this level he’ll require the very best to do the Springboks justice) and those players you listed are all extremely limited- I’m really getting sick of seeing Kirtchner in a Bok jersey in particular. Aplon, Lambie, A.Coetzee, Willie Le Roux, Taute all far better than Kirtchner.
Still, very happy with the incoming players. Just hope that Goosen and Vermuelen make a smooth transition and remain uninjured.
29 Aug 2012, 18:10 pm
@Transformation-438: Was that the last time Flo played? Jeez that is a heck of a long time back. So he too is not match fit. Now wait I think I read someone on RT said he played a game last week. Will have to go back and check that.
29 Aug 2012, 18:12 pm
@Finfan-433:
Good one….hahaha.
29 Aug 2012, 18:13 pm
446….well that is why the meYer is coach and not you or i.
Think jp nel. A one dymentional bruiser……who ended marius jouberts international career in 40 minutes at loftus.75-14.
I guess next season there will be another one of those handed out.
29 Aug 2012, 18:13 pm
@PissAnt-444: Exactly. Have no clue either.
29 Aug 2012, 18:18 pm
Finally selections are going in the right direction. I for one will be surprised if Vermeulen and Goosen start against Australia. Hopefully both get at least 30 minutes and probably start against NZ. Congrats to both of them.
And as for Flo, just shows that HM is listening especially after Bismarck got injured. He needs to start next Saturday.
29 Aug 2012, 18:31 pm
@I am a stormer-457: I agree let him start next saturday
, he gonna play alone??, Maybe he will he selected the Saturday afternext saturday 
29 Aug 2012, 18:31 pm
And so it begins (again).
The history books say the Boer War ended in 1902. This is obviously not the case.
As Strauli *proved*, the best Bok side is an Afrikaans side and we don’t need the ‘bleerie Engelsmanne’.
Now we have menure Heineken Meyer trying the same antics all over again.
It appears that one has to be Afrikaans or an ‘honorary Afrikaaner’ – read a non-white English speaker – oh woe that we are forced to play them – to make the team. Not only in team selections but also in whom he *uses* as substitutes.
The performance (or rather non-performance) of the *team* can obviously be attributed to the ‘bricks in bread’ syndrome.
Wp’s over-riding influence (as shown by the *additional players*) on team selection (after last Saturday’s catastrophe) is hard to ignore (where’s Louis Luyt to come to the rescue and fire the coach?) but they all speak the correct ‘Taal’.
Reality is that the two *stalwards* of SA – WP and NT – were not as good as the Sharks (even with preferential ‘referreing’) in the S15 and the players should be chosen on merit alone.
Perhaps HM doesn’t understand and can’t communicate in English? Perhaps it’s the incumbents problem that they are not fluent in Afrikaans?
There’s an Afrikaans adage: “‘n Boer Maak a plan, maar di’s die Engelsman wat maak’it werk” that somewhere got lost in HM’s upbringing (if he had one).
I thought HM had some brains and would choose a team without prejudice – a better option than PDiv – I was wrong.
Hopefully it’s a short tenure with the Boks and hope he doesn’t fade into ignominity but is long held up as an example of crass stupidity and racism.
Until HM is fired and we get a coach that is prepared to select on merit I’ll support ‘the other’ non-racist team.
29 Aug 2012, 18:34 pm
Let me explain the Jacques Potgieter, Dean Greyling and Flip vd Merwe inclusions. Ludeke and Pine Pienaar asked Heyneke to keep them at the Boks cause the Blou Bulle do’nt need any brain farts to hand out more penalties to the opposition.
We must remember that Heyneke’s appointment was terrible timing thanks to SARU. At the time he was appointed most of the decent assistant coaches were already committed elsewhere. Gert Small was not interested in the assistant coach position, Lauden did not want to come back to SA, Nienaber was not released by the WPRU and ……
Maybe the Bulls management saw an opportunity to get rid of some dead wood, thats why they released Van Graan and Loubscher. McFarlane is a big Heyneke fan and he can teach players defense patterns but the players must commit in the tackles.
29 Aug 2012, 18:40 pm
@OCO-459:
> I’ll support ‘the other’ non-racist team.
Please do
WGAF
29 Aug 2012, 18:42 pm
What a breath of fresh air. Finally HM is starting to reveal his cards.
Injuries have definitely affected his selections and when 80% of the injured players are back we can see whether his gameplan works or not.
Who knows, maybe an “upset” is possible in Dunedin…..
29 Aug 2012, 18:43 pm
459….so it is make all the sharks boks time is it. That is merit.
I do particularly like your idea of the sharks performing better than wp and the bulls. So much for both those sides finishing above the sharks on the superlog.
It would appear that the sharks outperforming the other 2 sides in the last 4 weeks trumps them outperforming the sharks in the previous 10.
Reality is that had this been a regular superrugby format sharks would not have even made the semis.
29 Aug 2012, 18:47 pm
jacque potgieter has replaced chiliboy as the posterboy for quotas in the Bok team…
no merit in his selection whatsoever!!!!
29 Aug 2012, 18:51 pm
@Transformation-464:
> no merit in his selection whatsoever!!!!
He’s from the EC and used to play for the Kings
That’s all the reason you need Transie?
29 Aug 2012, 18:51 pm
@Transformation-464: Hear, hear.
29 Aug 2012, 18:53 pm
464….how can potgieter be a quota.
Firstly and most obviously he is not blick.
He has never captained the boks
He doesnt decorate the bench either at his union nor his country.
29 Aug 2012, 18:53 pm
Duane in the Membrane!
29 Aug 2012, 18:53 pm
My 28 squad to Australasia:
15. Frans Steyn
14. Francois Hougaard
13. Juan de Jongh
12. Jean de Villiers (capt)
11. Bryan Habana
10. Pat Lambie
9. Ruan Pienaar
1. Beast Mtwarira
2. Adriaan Strauss (v/c)
3. Jannie du Plessis
6. Marcell Coetzee
4. Eben Etzebeth
5. Juandre Kruger
7. Willem Alberts
8. Duane Vermeulen
16. Craig Burden
17. Pat Cilliers
18. Andries Bekker
19. Keegan Daniel
20. CJ Stander
21. Johan Goosen
22. Gio Aplon
23. Lwazi Mvovu
24. Dean Greyling (with rule book test daily)
25. Charl McCloud (younger than Vermaak for 2015)
26. Tiaan Liebenberg (hand out GPS that he can find his locks)
27. Franco van der Merwe
28. Josh Strauss (if Derek Minnie still injured)
PS I’m a Bulls surporter
29 Aug 2012, 18:54 pm
Daniel is such a great player at Super Rugby level but as soon as he puts on the Bok jersey he cannot produce.
Reminds me of that blond centre that plays for the Bulls.
#justmyopinion.
29 Aug 2012, 18:56 pm
I’m anxious for the Boks to win against Australia next Saturday. They’ve beaten us in 7 of the last 8 games (Lord knows how that happened). The chippy crims EXPECT this current rabble of a Wallaby team to beat us and truly believe they have our number and are the main challengers of the AB’s.
Sorry but the current Wallaby team is poor. Deans selection is erratic, combos haven’t settled and there doesn’t seem to be any cohesive gameplan. The all-round quality of their current 15 is so ordinary: Who fears Rob Horne, Simmons,Robinson, Dennis or an ageing Sharpe? Even their stars Genia, especially Beale seem so out of it at the moment.
29 Aug 2012, 18:57 pm
@Tjokker-469:
This is a great team. Brilliant and unbiased judgement.
29 Aug 2012, 19:03 pm
Waar’s ou Dusky vanaand
29 Aug 2012, 19:03 pm
@Jeraldjay-470: is Keega the new meisiekind?
29 Aug 2012, 19:04 pm
@Spiesisworthless1-471:
The Wallabies always front up to us, even if their team isn’t up to standard
We on the other hand never take them seriously, we only rate games against the AB’s and try harder against them
After all every boy dreams of playing for the Boks against the All Blacks, not the BIL or Wallabies
29 Aug 2012, 19:05 pm
@Dawn-473:
Hy kannie post nie, ‘n Ysbeer het met sy laptop weggehardloop
29 Aug 2012, 19:08 pm
Since we have opened that can of worms now, why not just go all the way and bring Bakkies, Big Joe and Jaque F back into the Bok camp? But please leave Smittie and Fourie a million miles away from the green and gold.
29 Aug 2012, 19:08 pm
@victoriabok-475: that explains why some coaches go to aus, cop 49-0 arsewhoppings & still keep their jobs
29 Aug 2012, 19:10 pm
@victoriabok-476: Ek was Vrydag daar in jou stad. Pragtige weer. Vir boat cruise gegaan in hawe saam met kollegas.
29 Aug 2012, 19:12 pm
@kwas-477:
We should have a EOYT team and a Championship team, that way we can give the first ranked players a well earned rest before the S15 starts
We could build a strong EOYT with no 2 ranked players, youngsters discovered during the year’s CC season and add some experienced NH based players like Joe, Jacques Cronje, Gerhard Mostert, Anton van Zyl, CJ Stander etc
29 Aug 2012, 19:13 pm
@Jeraldjay-470: So what ur saying is Daniel has to dye his hair blonde??
29 Aug 2012, 19:14 pm
@victoriabok-475: it will be different in Perth. Heyneke is playing for survival. Boks (and Ozzies for that matter) will be desperate to turn the nightmare into something the fans will accept.
29 Aug 2012, 19:15 pm
@Transformation-474:
No Transie Keegan is not has bad.
Will never forget that last 20mins of the 1st half between the Sharks and the Stormers in Durban this year. Keegan was on fire.
Maar hy’s te klein vir grootmens rugby.
29 Aug 2012, 19:15 pm
29 Aug 2012, 19:16 pm
@kwas-479:
Ja dit is mooi, jy moes twee weke terug hier gewees het toe dit 30C gewees het
Was julle by Fisherman’s Wharf met die boothuise en Barb’s Fish & Chips?
Of het julle Whale watching gaan doen?
29 Aug 2012, 19:17 pm
@victoriabok-480: heyneke was promoting that idea at the start of his reign but doubtful he will follow through especially if he finishes bottom the rugby championship log.
29 Aug 2012, 19:18 pm
@victoriabok-475: That explains the divergence between Peter De Villiers relatively successful record vs AB’s and awful run vs the Wallabies.
Honestly though, this Wallaby team is probably the worst I’ve ever seen. I think the players are all in cruise mode trying to get Dean’s sacked.
29 Aug 2012, 19:19 pm
@victoriabok-480: The problem with SA rugby is simple, Coaches dont know what to do when they get a talented player, HM is prolly gonna make a skop and Jag koning of Goosen , and Goosen is anything but one,
Daniel was set up to fail with HM, why?? because HM wants big players that moer oor alles, The best Loosies in SA this year were the smaller okes.
Daniel
Coetzee
Stander
Brussow
Kolisi
botes
POttie, the smaller one lol
to name but a few
Alberts was injured most of the season and played Lock for the Sharks, Deysel only now starting to play some good rugby after a long injury layoff, Strauss Lions one of the few large loosies that was consistent this year
29 Aug 2012, 19:20 pm
No merit in the continued selection of :
1.Jacques Potgieter
2.Dean Greyling
3.Flip van der Merwe
4.Morne Steyn
5.Zane Kirchner
29 Aug 2012, 19:21 pm
@Spiesisworthless1-487: The Wallabiesw might now have a great team this year, but one thing we must always ways remember? they play with huge passion for their country and most of all, THEY PLAY SMART RUGBY, they think on their feet
29 Aug 2012, 19:21 pm
@Jinx2-472: Thanks
29 Aug 2012, 19:21 pm
@victoriabok-485: ek het die boothuise van die cruiser gesien. Uniek. Nie whale watching gedoen. Die werk het die funksie georganiseer so nie baie frills nie. Warm genoeg in Calgary – ek het net waardeer om weer die see te sien. Enigste oseaan in Alberta is die olie een onder ons voete.
29 Aug 2012, 19:22 pm
@wnbb-489: Flips first play on saturday?? a penalty which one can say cost us the match, what a brain ****
29 Aug 2012, 19:23 pm
@Tjokker-491: Nie sleg vir n bullietjie nie
29 Aug 2012, 19:24 pm
Selecting three players just returning from serious injuries shows the desperation of Meyer.Those walkie talkies will be abused like hell again next week.Sad…..for the walkie talkies.
29 Aug 2012, 19:25 pm
@kwas-486:
It’s a shame we didn’t have a succession plan at SA Rugby, that way HM could have been intergrated in the structures a long time ago
We also need a strong B-Team or SA-A team to blood youngsters like Jantjies or Goosen
I’m afraid they’re going to throw Goosen in at the deep end, and make another Gaffie out of him
29 Aug 2012, 19:26 pm
@sharks_lover-493: Inside ten seconds!!!Only a Pretorian can pull off something like that.
29 Aug 2012, 19:26 pm
@wnbb-489:
is it coincidence the players you just named are all BUlls?? 
29 Aug 2012, 19:26 pm
@wnbb-497:
29 Aug 2012, 19:27 pm
Actually i am surprised at Flip, when he came onto the scene he was said to be the new Bakkies etc etc etc, he has been very dissapointing
29 Aug 2012, 19:28 pm
@kwas-492:
Het jy toe al die SA winkel in Calgary raakgeloop?
Loop miskien op olie maar julle rol in die geld
29 Aug 2012, 19:32 pm
@wnbb-497:
When Flip got penalised the 1st thing I thought of was Danie Rossouw’s brainfart in the 1/4′s against the Wallabies, which was also in the lineout with 3 mins to go.
29 Aug 2012, 19:32 pm
@sharks_lover-500:
He played well for the Cheetahs in hs first season
He suffers from the same problem as Hougie, he had to stand in the queue behind three Boks and never had enough hard 80 minute games as a youngster to develop fully as a enforcer lock
Now he’s undercooked like Hougie at his supposed prime
29 Aug 2012, 19:33 pm
“Juan covers both positions in the midfield,” says Meyer now.
A few weeks ago JJE was selected ahead of the same Juan with the reasoning, “JJ can also cover wing.”
‘We were very keen to give Siya Kolisi an opportunity on this tour, but he is also out injured, alongside a list of other injured or unavailable forwards that include Gurthrö Steenkamp, Heinrich Brüssow, Schalk Burger, Juan Smith and Ryan Kankowski.’
Afa I know, Brussow was available for the series against England. Some stupid excuse about “giving away too many penalties at the break down,” were given as the reason for his non-selection back then.
More confusing statements by HM.
At least he has shown that he is willing to listen and change his mind. I’ll give him credit for that.
Now, if only he can explain to the rugby public exactly what he sees in Potgieter!!!
29 Aug 2012, 19:33 pm
@victoriabok-496: I am not too worried about Goosen. Morne is Heyneke’s favorite and won’t be dropped until he breaks a leg. Goosen won’t get a chance until much later.
29 Aug 2012, 19:34 pm
Kirschner is a disgrace to springboks and to retarted cavemen.
29 Aug 2012, 19:36 pm
@sharks_lover-490: That’s usually been the case alright. But this bunch… They were laughing and frollicking with the AB’s after their two defeats, getting SBW autographs and carrying on like a bunch of happy go lucky twats. And their renowned innovative rugby hasn’t been on show in the RC yet, it’s been as blunt as our own rugby has been.
I think Deans may well have lost control of his team and they’re just going through the motions now. Knowing our luck they’ll probably put on quite a show in Perth though
29 Aug 2012, 19:37 pm
@kwas-505: this is true, you wanna help Morne break a leg??
29 Aug 2012, 19:37 pm
Q: Why do seagulls fly over the sea? A: Because if they flew over the bay they’d be bagels
29 Aug 2012, 19:38 pm
@Spiesisworthless1-507:
29 Aug 2012, 19:39 pm
@victoriabok-501: nog nie die SA winkel gekry. Kinders hou my te besig. En ek bly ander kant van die stad.
Ja, ons olie royalties hou hierdie land aan die gang. Maar Vancouver bly die mooiste stad vir my.
29 Aug 2012, 19:42 pm
@kwas-505:
No not really, you must remember during his tenure at the Bulls he had to use the players he had, like JP and Jaco
He wathed to use the tests against England before home crowds to blood Goosen, Vermeulen and Taute but injuries prevented him, otherwise Spies (before he tried pull his finger out of his a-ss and broke it) and Morne would have played Currie Cup now
29 Aug 2012, 19:43 pm
@sharks_lover-508: wait until Goosen is fully fit before we take out our #1 sniper.
29 Aug 2012, 19:44 pm
Francois Hougaard is far to slow and Morné Steyn never gets his backline moving. Why the coach persists with these 2 is beyond comprehension. Anyway the Kiwis who have learnt to pass in the tackle or before (besides cheating at the breakdown) will walk the series.
29 Aug 2012, 19:46 pm
@I am a stormer-457: Transie said the last time Flo played was in Johns farewell here. That was a mighty long time ago. Wonder how he will do with not much game time?
29 Aug 2012, 19:48 pm
@kwas-511:
Vancouver is mooi maar besig, glo my jy sal go gatvol word om daar te bestuur en ure in verkeer te moet staan om oor die brûe te ry.
Dit reën ook m-oer baie daar, hierdie nat grys winters maak jou verlang na mense wat jy nie ken nie, en dit reën baie minder in Victoria as daar
Moenie dink jy sal sommer ‘n huis daar koop nie, ‘n ou wrak wat julle sal sloop in Calgary verkoop vir $700 000 in Vanvcouver
Ons kan nie glo hoe goedkoop huise daar by julle is teenoor hier nie, dis daaroor dat ons oorweeg om Calgary toe te trek
29 Aug 2012, 19:50 pm
Just watching this Reunion show. Damn I so wish we could beat the Abs in Dunedin. Big ask I know, but hope we are a lot more competitive there than we were last week against Arg. If we can beat Aus that would help of course. Need to look at that game first.
29 Aug 2012, 19:51 pm
@Puma-515:
He can be unfit he’ll still me better than USN/Virgin Active Spies with 0.5% body fat the last two years
And Tarzan van Uitenhage Potgieter
29 Aug 2012, 19:55 pm
@victoriabok-518: Yip for sure. But makes me wonder how ready we will be for Oz next week?
29 Aug 2012, 19:57 pm
From what I read the Bok squad get back into training tomorrow. They all had a few days off. I wonder when we will travel to Perth then? Sunday? The sooner we get there the better. Not a long flight just the time zone. Though they only 6 hours a head of us here. Not too bad stopping off in Perth to play the Wallabies. Still think we should travel no latter than Sunday.
29 Aug 2012, 19:57 pm
Oh happy days…..
The Bullsharks time on this planet has come to an end it seems. Extinction looms large. Until next years S15, when a specimen with 7 eggs will be found in some goforsaken swamp in Durban wasteland. But for now…a dying species. Call Nationalfuckinggeographic.
The original sceptics: Stormers and Cheetahs fans….have been joined by large groups of (previous Meyer praise singing Natalians) it seems. GOOD. The more we have in the ‘light’, the better.
Is now the correct time to say, told you so?
29 Aug 2012, 19:59 pm
So, CJ Stander is penalised for playing oversea. How childish can they get?
29 Aug 2012, 20:01 pm
@Dwarslat-522: I know and he is such a talent. Should have been on this tour.
29 Aug 2012, 20:01 pm
@Puma-519:
Nope, this team needs game time to build experience and cohesion
How many games had Vic and Bakkies played together?
Morne and FdP?
But watch this space next week
All the Mountain Goat supporters that b-itched because HM only picked one Stormer, yet STILL won the series against the Poms and couldn’t find anything positive to say will be out in force baying for his head although he picked Flo and JdJ
29 Aug 2012, 20:03 pm
@Dwarslat-522: While he is is still here he should have been selected. Meyer has selected Flo and Ruan that play overseas. So not sure why he was overlooked.
29 Aug 2012, 20:04 pm
@Dwarslat-522: Daniel,Coetzee,Stander,Kolisi, these 4 have been the best loosies all year, consistant form
29 Aug 2012, 20:05 pm
@Dwarslat-522:
Can’t confirm but HM apparently said he’s too small
That was his Skinstad/Fetcher moment like Mallet/White?
29 Aug 2012, 20:06 pm
@Puma-525: Nope, one of the Bulls supporters in here said earlier that HM apparently does not rate Stander,
29 Aug 2012, 20:06 pm
@Puma-525:
CJ is ten times the player that Tarzan from Despatch is
29 Aug 2012, 20:07 pm
@victoriabok-524: Well I hope we play a lot better than we done on Saturday. Just watched that kiwi rugby show. They showed a clip of their game and ours. We looked like we were playing 1960 rugby buddy. Jeez they looked light years away from us. Do hope Meyer surprises us next week and our Boks have a blinder.
29 Aug 2012, 20:10 pm
@sharks_lover-528: Well then Meyer is being daft. Stander is a brilliant player. A massive loss to Bulls when he leaves. And Boks he should be with the Boks instead of Potgieter.
29 Aug 2012, 20:10 pm
@victoriabok-529: LOL. For sure bud. Agree.
29 Aug 2012, 20:11 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-521:
eish…that little kerfuffel was shortlived hehehe…now heyneke meyer is persona non grata in Debben & just 2 weeks ago he was a visionary that picked the entire sharks loose trio 
amazing how some people’s opinion of a coach sway with how many players from their union are in the national team
29 Aug 2012, 20:11 pm
@Puma-531: I agree,
29 Aug 2012, 20:12 pm
@sharks_lover-526: Meyer could be snubbing him now that he is gonna leave for Ireland.
29 Aug 2012, 20:15 pm
So Daniel was dropped but Potgieter is still there?
JJ was dropped and JdJ is in, to make up the quota numbers I guess?
Kirchner, Mvovo and Habana are all there too, good, we shall have some fun!
if notheing else
29 Aug 2012, 20:15 pm
@Puma-535: Not sure boet, could be so, but that would still be damn stupid, So if MOrne decided to go play 6 months up noth would he snub him?? i very much doubt that
29 Aug 2012, 20:18 pm
@victoriabok-524: Nope. Most ‘mountain goats’ have been concerned about Meyer’s conservative selection and gameplan tendencies from the getgo.
Whether he selects 15 Stormers, 15 Sharks or 15 Bulls players – those concerns won’t disappear.
He can select as many Lambie’s, Goosen’s, de Jongh’s, Vermeulen’s, Louw’s as he wants, it changes nothing at this stage. The fact that de Jongh has been in and out, in and out – tells me Meyer doesn’t rate him at all – so why select him? Lambie is selected to sit like a kid in detention on a bench for 80 minutes each week – doesn’t rate him either.
Vermeulen and Goosen are both just back from serious injury….by selecting them, it tells me Meyer cares little about the ACTUAL players, but more about his covering his own @ ss.
Nope, whatever team he selects, whatever the provincial combo of players: one thing is certain…..there are still too many woeful players who will start the tests…..
29 Aug 2012, 20:18 pm
@Transformation-533: Not about which players are there Transie. We do want the best but it is mostly the game plan Meyer is playing. It is useless. Look I saw us play some good rugby in the 2nd half of the first test and the 1st half of the 2nd test against England. But now we looking clueless.
Then we may have a superb game against Oz. Let us see what we do there. Also who knows we just may surprise and beat ABs in Dunedin. Though the way we played on Saturday it looks most unlikely.
29 Aug 2012, 20:19 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-521: oh what i would do for a coach who thinks like this:
Asked about the great talent, like Goosen and Rhule, coming
through at the Cheetahs, Hawies Fourie said it is important to give guys like that the room to express themselves.
“You can so easily put them in a
box and say you can only do this or that,” he said, adding: “That may be the safer option, because every now and then they will
make mistakes.
“However, the great things they
do far outweigh the occasional
mistake that sneaks in.
“It is important to give them a
green card to do what they feel, at that moment, is on and play what they see in front of them – that is when they are at their best.”
what do you expect heyneke to do with “play the situation” goosen?
29 Aug 2012, 20:20 pm
@sharks_lover-537: Just have no idea. But he is a superb player that will get lost to us.
When is JPP due back? Think they said for the home series. Not sure now.
Also this bloke they bringing to cover us for hooker at the sharks how you rate him? I don’t even remember him really.
29 Aug 2012, 20:24 pm
@sharks_lover-528: I believe that is one of the reasons he is leaving. He wasn’t happy with sucking the hindtit in Pretoria…..
Great pity, as IMHO, that was Bok captain potential.
Potgieter must be in possession of a video….Meyergate.
@Transformation-533: It was predicted
29 Aug 2012, 20:27 pm
@Puma-541: Jpp I thinks still out for 3 weeks
As for Dixon?? not a bad hooker bro, he was schooled at maritzburg college, captained SA schools, went to study in the Cape and then played for WP
He did have his shortcommings, but playing for Bath i didnt see him maki9ng those same mistakes.
So yeah a good signing as he is very experienced. A youngster like Hadebe could learn quite a bit from him
29 Aug 2012, 20:28 pm
@Transformation-540: Well Meyer might have a problem in trying to ‘tame the goose’. Goosen refused to move from Bloem to Pretoria, and I know those Bulls with Meyer leading the charge, tried desperately hard to get him (a few times).
I believe the kid felt his rugby would benefit more from staying in Bloemfontein……..
The Meyer must keep his filthy paws off that kids creativity.
29 Aug 2012, 20:28 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-542: Yeah Pity as Stander is a brilliant young player
29 Aug 2012, 20:30 pm
@nama1-504:
You read too much into what HM presumably said or might have said
“He never means what he says and what he REALLY means he never says”
29 Aug 2012, 20:30 pm
@Puma-539: when did you realise the “gameplan was useless” puma, in the england series, at newlands or in mendoza?
or (last option) when lambie started catching “splinters on his backside”?
29 Aug 2012, 20:32 pm
@Puma-530:
> Just watched that kiwi rugby show. They showed a clip of their game and ours.
The game looked more like league than rugby
The Wallabie players also seems to be similarly sized like league players, no wonder a NH team with a good scrum eats them for lunch
> We looked like we were playing 1960 rugby buddy
We were very poor on the day
But remember they’ve always been a tough team at home (like the Irish), they have a good, experienced pack and settled team, and they play a different game than the fast S15 or Tri Nations tyoe we’re used to
And Henry analyzed our game and showed them where to attack our ball supply thereby starving us of possession
29 Aug 2012, 20:33 pm
@sharks_lover-543: Well then we covered there. Feel great for Burden to be on this tour and on the other hand feel he is wasting his time with the Boks. No game time again and he needs it. Pity as he was playing well for us. Never got a lot of game time in the S15.
29 Aug 2012, 20:36 pm
@victoriabok-548: if ‘henry anaylzed our game’ what did our coaches do, you think they ever analyzed the argies or just hellbent on “forcing our gameplan” on the wily & charged up argies?
29 Aug 2012, 20:37 pm
@victoriabok-548: Well we looked terrible against them. Kiwis will be better against them, make no mistake about that.
Just have to hope we play well against the Aussies. We could and that could set us up for a good contest against the Blacks. Then for now that is wishful I think.
29 Aug 2012, 20:40 pm
People forget Rassie is the Boks Technical coach/Advisor
29 Aug 2012, 20:44 pm
@Transformation-547: When we played England in the last test. Then thought we could be tired as remember we came straight into those tests with no rest from Super Rugby. So actually was not too concerned then. Though this time thought Meyer will have us better prepared. Well he never and even though we beat them in Cape Town was concerned then. There I felt angry we never go the 4th try….lol. Only to see us really go backward in Mendoza and we should actually have lost there. Damn that was a mess that game.
Look we could get better who knows. Let us see how we go against Oz. We could turn it around. Still support our Boks no matter what. But of course feel disappointed seeing us playing this way.
29 Aug 2012, 20:46 pm
@Transformation-550:
Yes they did plan on dominating them, but I think we might have underestimated their fire at home and they haven’t played as many regular tests against quality opposition per year as we do, so getting video’s you could actually use might have been a problem
Don’t underestimate Henry’s input
My friend asked a good question after Saturday’s game, “Do you think Henry’s going to give them the same quality analysis and advice to counter the All Blacks?”
29 Aug 2012, 20:48 pm
@sharks_lover-552: I know and wonder what he actually does? Also the backline coach surely he is not doing much either. Well none of the coaches.
You think Meyer will last the 4 years? After watching him freaking out with his walkie talkie smashing it to his mouth, crikey not sure. He might pack it in. Looks highly stressed all of the time.
29 Aug 2012, 20:50 pm
@victoriabok-554: Maybe Jake should give them advice about the Blacks…………….hahahaha.
29 Aug 2012, 20:52 pm
I wonder if this guy eventually gets it right.. by default.. same way as most SA coaches eventually cotton onto what works and what don’t.. never by design.. always by circumstance stepping in and forcing their thinking..
Rugby is actually such a simple game to strategize around and to select players that combine and work well but it seems that most fundi’s wanna complicate the hell out of it.. then wonder why it simply don’t work out with all the complicated reasons around the super highly enlightened strategists failing.
All you gotta do is look to see which player got the balls and the character for the job and select them in their best position and voila you got a champion winning team.. Instead they surround themselves with people for all the wrong reasons and fail to see who got the real low down character for the job and who don’t.
29 Aug 2012, 20:56 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-538:
> Most ‘mountain goats’ have been concerned about Meyer’s conservative selection and gameplan tendencies from the getgo.
Why, should he have used the Stormer’s a-try-a-minute approach?
> Meyer cares little about the ACTUAL players, but more about his covering his own @ ss.
Like all Bok coaches he’s not allowed to lose
> He can select as many Lambie’s, Goosen’s, de Jongh’s, Vermeulen’s, Louw’s as he wants, it changes nothing at this stage
Yip, there it is, the Goat response
Now for the last time:
1. Mallet didn’t want the job
2. AC didn’t want the job
3. Divvie couldn’t do the job although he had the most experienced Bok team ever(and don’t come with the kop-se-kak stories about the Tri Nations and BIL tour, any coach would have done it, including Fester that you fired at WP)
As a Bulls fan I would have preferred HM to remain as DoR and rather build us a good Bulls team
with all the young players
29 Aug 2012, 21:00 pm
@Puma-555:
The first test I’ve ever seen was against the Poms at Loftus, after the first fifteen minutes the Poms and Rob Andrew were something like 15-0 ahead
Ian MacInstosh was the coach and it looked if his eyes were going to pop out
He probably smoked a cigarette a minute
29 Aug 2012, 21:03 pm
@victoriabok-516: ja, ek verneem koste van behuising is ‘n teer puntjie in Vancouver. Ek het nou ‘n knapie in ons kantoor in Vancouver ‘n job gegee in die Calgary kantoor en hy het onmiddellik ‘n pragtige huis in die stad opgeraap teen ‘n fraksie van die koste in BC. Maar Calgary is bitter koud en die somers kort – niks wat ons daaraan kan doen. En natuurlik is sukses in Alberta 100% afhanklik van die olie prys. Ek veronderstel solank die Chinese hul biljoene in ons olie reserwes bele kan dinge net goed gaan.
29 Aug 2012, 21:03 pm
@victoriabok-558: Well like Mallett said, Boks are playing Stormer/Bulls rugby. We are, the only difference is that we have not implemented the Stormers defence into the game. Our defence was a shambles on Saturday we were missing many tackles. We can never do that against Oz or Abs.
Anyhow we may just have a blinder next week who knows. That could happen. Hope we do turn it around.
Okay out of here now. Cheers bud.
29 Aug 2012, 21:06 pm
@Puma-515:
What you have to realise is that Flo is a Stormer and will slot in no matter whether he played 10 weeks ago or not!
But seriously HM is questioning his own thinking, which is good. Especially so when people on this site understand that he hasn’t totally ruled out Heinrich Brussow.
29 Aug 2012, 21:06 pm
@victoriabok-559: Mac’s eyes always looked huge….hahaha.
He was a very good coach with the Sharks. Ahead of his time those years. Talking of the 90′s now. He never got much of a chance with the Boks. Not many coaches did then and they were fired. Now days we keep our coaches seem to stay longer.
Okay now really out of here. Cheers. Catch up tomorrow.
29 Aug 2012, 21:09 pm
@I am a stormer-562: I know and I rate Flo. Just wondered if he was fit or not. Someone said earlier he had a injury and then read he had not played for quite sometime. Hope he slots in quick. We got bullied last week at the breakdowns. Brussow should be back when he is over his injury. Well think so.
Cheers bud now really out. Catch up tomorrow.
29 Aug 2012, 21:14 pm
@kwas-560:
Ons het nou die dag op Craigslist gekyk na huise om te huur daar, vir die $1500 wat ons hier betaal kan jy ‘n groot nuwe huis in Calgary kry met 4 slaapkamers, hier kry jy net sulke huise in stratas en hulle sal nie sommer en kan huur vir minder as $3000 p/m nie
Dit is maar moenie die waarde van son en blou lug onderskat nie, ek kom van Pretoria af so ek is gewoond aan winters met blou lug en sonskyn, my vriende hier wat Kapenaars is nie veel gepla oor die grys winters met motreën wat aanhou vir dae nie
Ek moet ‘n email adres by jou kry, dan kan ek vir jou ‘n bier koop as ons in Calgary is, ons dink daaraan om miskien nog in September te gaan kyk, ons wag net dat almal weer terug is by die werk.
Gelukkig is vlugte en akkomodasie goedkoper na Labour Day
29 Aug 2012, 21:17 pm
@I am a stormer-562:
> But seriously HM is questioning his own thinking, which is good. Especially so when people on this site understand that he hasn’t totally ruled out Heinrich Brussow
He gambled without a fetcher against the Poms, but he had Bismarck
Now he needs one as Adriaan is not the same type of player
Now we’ll hold our fingers crossed that Brussouw would have an injury free season for once
29 Aug 2012, 21:19 pm
Willem Alberts, Andries Bekker, Craig Burden, Pat Cilliers, Marcell Coetzee, Juan de Jongh, Jean de Villiers (c), Jannie du Plessis, Eben Etzebeth, Johan Goosen, Dean Greyling, Bryan Habana, Francois Hougaard, Zane Kirchner, Juandré Kruger, Pat Lambie, Tiaan Liebenberg, Francois Louw, Tendai Mtawarira, Lwazi Mvovo, Ruan Pienaar, Jacques Potgieter, Frans Steyn, Morné Steyn, Adriaan Strauss, Flip van der Merwe, Jano Vermaak, Duane Vermeulen.
JdV (c)
J de Jongh
F. Steyn
J. Goosen
F. Hougaard
D. Vermeulen
W. Alberts
M. Coetsee
A. Bekker
E. Etzebeth
P. Cilliers
D. Fourie
D. Greyling
B. Mtwarira, C. Burden, J. du Plessis, J. Kruger, F. Louw, R. Pienaar, M. Steyn / P. Lambie
That about his best starting team note the gaps at 15 and 11
because all HM has left available there are Kirchner and Habana unless he going to gamble with Hougaard to wing from kick off which would be a STUPID move.. almost as stupid as switching him to wing at 60 minutes.
Play Burden off bench as extra back line option if we go a back line player down in a 5 / 2 bench.
But we left with a big hole at 15 and wing.. suddenly all we got going in those positions are Mvovo, Habana, Hougaard, Kirchner, Lambie
He should have an A. Coetsee, or a R. Rhule, or a W. Le Roux, or a JJ. Engelbrecht or a J. Serfontein somewhere in his backup to fill the dreary back line proposition facing this team once again.
Goosen won’t spark an entire back line all by himself even if he does hit form straight off the bat and J de Jongh definitely won’t start and likely won’t even get a bench spot.
These guys don’t really know how to build a team, so they keep filling stop gaps till hopefully and miraculously a team develops out of trial and error by default, as is happening here.
29 Aug 2012, 21:28 pm
@victoriabok-566:
I’ve mentioned this before many times thar I was privileged to hear HM speak before his first squad announcement. I wasn’t surprised that he ommitted Brussow as he expected Bisssie to do that job for him. Adriaan Strauss is not a like for like player in the Bissie mould.
That is why HM has had to do a re-think even to the extent of delaying the announcement of this squad by 24 hours.
That is another reason why I’ll give him more time. Unlike other guys on this site who want to push him into the path of a fast moving taxi.
Disclaimer: Potgieter didn”t feature in this analysis.
29 Aug 2012, 21:29 pm
@fitz1ella-557:
> I wonder if this guy eventually gets it right.. by default.. same way as most SA coaches eventually cotton onto what works and what don’t.. never by design.. always by circumstance stepping in and forcing their thinking..
It’s human nature, you believe your opinion is right until someone or something changes it
A rugby team also consists of indviduals which a coach has to forge into a single entity
It’s hard to do over a few seasons with a provincial team, imagine doing it in a short time with players from different unions?
Some players won’t fit in like Luke in White’s team, not because they’re bad players, just because they don’t fit that particular team.
Like Liefling, under coaches Rudi Joubert and Strauli, they couldn’t use him right and ruined his confidence, yet HM could motivate him enough to win CC’s and S14
> Rugby is actually such a simple game to strategize around and to select players that combine and
work well but it seems that most fundi’s wanna complicate the hell out of it..
You can’t always play your first choice players (injuries) and each player is different so the same gameplan might not work with your second or third choice player (Jantjies and Lambie won’t play exactly the same game)
29 Aug 2012, 21:39 pm
@I am a stormer-568:
He has been at a disadvantage from the word go
No preparation time
The injuries to first choice players who would have been the axis of his gameplan (Vermeulen and Goosen)
Losing Bismarck was a biggie
Morne and Hougie being useless, but he could have remedied it by using Lambie or Jantjies and Ruan
Why he brought in Tarzan from Despatch while there are tons of good loosies around we’ll never know
I like Riaan Viljoen a lot, he would also be an option at 10 for the Boks
29 Aug 2012, 21:40 pm
@victoriabok-569:
From the word go its been clear as daylight that Spies and Potgieter and Kirchner are not international caliber players
And then M. Steyn and Olivier very closely following as not international caliber players
Yet from the outset these players were picked and played as first choice players
Can’t go blaming injuries for omitting better players than these as your first choice picks, and then when circumstance forces you to change your thinking use the excuse that its injuries that made you select better .. that’s simply a cover up lie because the first choice selection was poor and now trying to cover up with frantic kamakaze quick fix options is just downright getting desperate, and usually desperation brings about desperate circumstances.
29 Aug 2012, 21:44 pm
@Transformation-540: it is always easy in the cheap seats
29 Aug 2012, 21:44 pm
@fitz1ella-571: easy in the cheap seats
29 Aug 2012, 21:47 pm
@fitz1ella-571:
He had to pick Spies* as Vermeulen was injured, and he needed some experience in the pack, both locks were newbies as well
If Schalk played he would have been captain and you could have blooded two locks and a no 8
*-Don’t ask me how he played 50 tests, you know how I feel about him
Kirchner is more about the quota ratio that anything else I suspect
HM likes Taute, he’ll get his opportunity
To lose JPP playing the best rugby of his life as well as Bismarck also was a big blow, and we can’t compensate for their experience we’ve lost
29 Aug 2012, 21:47 pm
@londonshark-298: SA’s forwards dominated in 2009 until they got injured. In truth, the SA pack would dominate most years were it not for injury to key forwards. The SARU’s player management isn’t good enough to sustain success.
29 Aug 2012, 21:48 pm
@victoriabok-570: Looking for a replacement for Juan Smith?
He is giving Morne a fair chance? If he had a pack that could protect him and give him front foot ball, how would he perform?
Riaan is pretty average if you look at his error rate
29 Aug 2012, 21:48 pm
Tarzan from Uitenhage made the most successful tackles on Saturday
29 Aug 2012, 21:50 pm
its actually easier in the expensive seats than they wanna try and make out.. some these so called professional coaches make the expensive seats look cheap.
How difficult is it to notice Kirchner, Olivier, Spies, Potgieter, will never be international caliber players.., yet apart from this new Tarzan wunderkind that is keeping at least 10 better loose forwards out the bok team the other 3 have around 200 caps between them
Add M. Steyn and a couple other glaring problem children and you start seriously considering that some these so called professional coaches got way more yet to learn than some us bumpkins sitting in the cheap seats.
29 Aug 2012, 21:51 pm
@victoriabok-574: we do underestimate player losses and the impact it has left
from 900 tests to 150 or so
29 Aug 2012, 21:52 pm
@fitz1ella-578: I think everyone hates Kirchner due to his provincial performances because he has been reasonably good in the RC so far. He did a decent cover stint at outside centre v Ireland too.
29 Aug 2012, 21:53 pm
@Big Hit-575: you not even saffa and you making petty excuses for SA glaring weaknesses because we so prone to injury.. how come NZ don’t have half the injury problem concerns and excuses that we do? Even Aussie who should never be anywhere near our ability in rugby union yet smack us by 49-0 and 6 tests in succession and the rest boast far less injury related excuses than we do
29 Aug 2012, 21:55 pm
@JL1-576:
Maybe but Tarzan would never be Juan
Elstadt maybe or even Rhodes?
Morne’s head is not in or at the game, someone commented on the Bulls site that Morne has played something like 134 games in a row missing 4 or so.
No wonder he’s listless
Jantjies and Lambie should each have had 30 minutes against the Poms
29 Aug 2012, 21:55 pm
@fitz1ella-578: How can 3 coaches miss Spies and his quality???
Kirchner…stable, not mistakes, no action but solid… I dont really see many fullbacks knocking on the door over the last 4 years
Olivier, again why could 4 coaches not see through him
Potgieter…… i NEED TO HOLD MY BREATH TO SEE WHAT HE CAN DELIVER
29 Aug 2012, 21:55 pm
@victoriabok-570:
HM is spoilt for choice at SH and FH but is unable to make the big call there. My gut feeling is that he will start with Morne and introduce Goosen for 30 odd minutes. Goodbye Morne. And there is Jantjies waiting as well.
As for the loosies, injuries and lack of form or out of depth have redefined his thinking. Suddenly Flo comes into the picture. HM stated that he’ll only pick an overseas player if no local player is available. So Brussow will still come into the picture at some stage.
29 Aug 2012, 21:56 pm
@JL1-577:
He did didn’t he
Like Meisiekind in the last test against the Poms he performed against all expectations
29 Aug 2012, 21:57 pm
@Big Hit-580: he’s just a mediocre one dimensional provincial level full back.. always will be and will never amount to anything more than that.. yet he’s our best 15 in the country according our national coaches… how many caps this one dimensional donkey have?
and we supposedly pride ourselves at seeking excellence.. well if that’s the level of excellence we are seeking I hate to see what our mediocrity levels are.
29 Aug 2012, 21:58 pm
@victoriabok-565: ek sal jou my email stuur. Het jy ‘n non-descript email adres wat jy my kan gee hier? Wil nie my identiteit op internet publiseer nie.
Kan jy ‘n werks oorplasing na Calgary kry of soek jy nuwe werk hier as jy besluit om te skuif?
29 Aug 2012, 21:59 pm
@victoriabok-582: Elstadt has discipline issues… he will not see 60 minutes internationally
Morne, can be replaced, quite right, he slipped into flyhalf by default because Ruan crumbled under pressure
29 Aug 2012, 22:00 pm
@fitz1ella-586:
You forget the quota requirement?
29 Aug 2012, 22:02 pm
@fitz1ella-581: I have no excuse for any sides weaknesses, SA rugby struggles to embrace running rugby and it has been to their detriment given they haven’t always had the forward advantages. That’s an issue for short-sighted coaches, the coaches in the UK are little better hence all the foreign coaches in our rugby.
However, I don’t think it’s a stretch to say SA produces better forwards than other nations and if they managed to keep them fit, it would go a long way to beating the opposition.
NZ have superior player management and the Australians do have injury problems. This was on the theroar.com (Aussie site):
“But the injured list keeps growing, making life extremely difficult for Deans and his selectors, Tony McGahan and David Nucifora.
Currently injured include David Pocock, James Horwill, Wycliff Palu, Sekope Kepu, Tatafu Polota-Nau, Ben McCalman, Pat McCutcheon, Damien Fitzpatrick, James O’Connor, Pat McCabe, Ben Tapuai, Joe Tomane, and Cooper Vuna.
Which begs the question: why are so many Wallabies injured and so few All Blacks?
The men-in-black have the answer, and the right system.
Prior to the 2012 Super Rugby tournament, the NZRU and the five franchises met and decided the black jersey was the number one priority.
So if All Black coach Steve Hansen decided such-and-such a player was looking jaded, he’d ring up the franchise coach and suggest that player have a two-to-three week rest.
Automatic done deal: no argument, no discussion.
Robbie Deans hasn’t got that luxury. It’s left entirely to the Australian franchise coaches.
And what do they want? Their best players on the paddock every week.
At one stage during the season, there were 26 Australian players on the injured list.
Carnage.
And it’s not much better now.
Australian rugby has a lot to learn on player management and it will get worse among the Wallabies now Argentina is in the Rugby Championship, requiring all that extra travel.”
29 Aug 2012, 22:02 pm
@JL1-583: exactly it may be easy in the cheap seats but it seems way more difficult to have any kind of clarity in those so called expensive seats..
I think the expensive seats have a built in blindness inducer that automatically makes international coaches blind.
29 Aug 2012, 22:03 pm
@kwas-587: ek praat met hom, nou val jy my in die rede, hete mens!
29 Aug 2012, 22:07 pm
@fitz1ella-591: … but any seat we still do not have many fullbacks to really say there are a list of ones to replace the current player
maybe we should look at the way we play at grassroots as the cause, we seldom attack from the back, we tend to join the line from the back… what didi HO do…. please tell me as I never saw him play?
29 Aug 2012, 22:07 pm
@victoriabok-589:
It’s because it running late, minor issue?
@victoriabok-585:
I’ll trade for him 1o JdVs
He does tackle and miss few, he hit the gap hard too
With the kind of ball he has seen from Morne Styen and prior to that from Derrik Hougaard I wouldn’t expect much
He got 3 Super Rugby rings which means something?
29 Aug 2012, 22:08 pm
@kwas-587:
victoria.bok@aol.com
Ons sal nuwe werk moet kry
Ek sien hulle adverteer baie poste daar, as ek ‘n job search doen kry en twee poste in Victoria en 120 in Calgary
29 Aug 2012, 22:09 pm
Just seen HM,s team to come down these ways. Certainly an improvement on paper with the addition of Goosen, DV and Flouw.What HM sees in Potgeiter is anyones guess and the dropping of Keegan is a mistake in my opinion.
The way I look at it, Meyer is not going to move away from his gameplan of execution over innovation, so imo it wont matter an iota who Meyer picks he will still get outwitted on the field because of his outdated strategies of bash….bash….kick….and hope.
29 Aug 2012, 22:09 pm
@JL1-588:
So does Flip, Bismarck
29 Aug 2012, 22:11 pm
@JL1-592:
Jy is ‘n Lions supporter, hoe goed is die slot wat ons nou by julle gekoop het, Paul Willemse?
29 Aug 2012, 22:16 pm
BH is exactly right, but there’s another difference, SA and OZ need their very best to be fully fit to take on the ABs.
In other words the ABs have always had more depth. Not necessarily the best XV, I think the Bok pack could have dominated them the last few years if they’d selected right without injuries, but the ABs do have more wordclass players to select from. For example, there is nothing to choose between Mealamu and Hore – even that Delmonche or whatever would walk into any test side. They got 2-3 worldclass players to pick from in virtually every position, SA can probably only say that about their pack and not even in certain positions. But if SA could select properly they could beat allcomers.
We see this depth every year when the ABs can pick a B side and still win on an EOY tour – if OZ or SA do that, they get punished, but the problem is the A-side are complely buggered by year-end and get bashed anyway, injuries pile up, Our current guys are already buggered and most of the RC has yet to be played, the sharkboks have travelled back and forth to australasia 3 times already.
29 Aug 2012, 22:16 pm
@Big Hit-590:
> At one stage during the season, there were 26 Australian players on the injured list.
Same here, but in Kiwi the players are all contracted to NZRU and they “rent” them out to the unions so they can do it
Our unions contract the young players out of school, or most recently, still in school
29 Aug 2012, 22:17 pm
@JL1-593:
In any other country players like A. Coetsee and W. Le Roux would be spotted earlier and pushed through to higher level
here we wait for them to get crocked before we realize their value
How come Gio Aplon was 29 years old before he became Springbok, yet Frans Steyn was 19
I would play A. Coetsee at international level already.. he is far more creative and incisive and rugby wise than Kirchner will be after another 30 or 50 caps underserved..
how come it takes a broken thumb for Spies to get dropped when its been painfully obvious for 4 whole seasons how invisible he is on the rugby field.. ? 50 odd caps and counting .. and exactly how much positive influence have been produced in those 50 caps while Duanne Vermeulen been counting his CC appearances claim to fame..?
29 Aug 2012, 22:19 pm
@Te Rangatira-596:
> The way I look at it, Meyer is not going to move away from his gameplan of execution over innovation, so imo it wont matter an iota who Meyer picks he will still get outwitted on the field because of his outdated strategies of bash….bash….kick….and hope.
Might be, we’ve never managed to throw the ball around like you, no franchise does so why would the Boks?
The only one that does is the Cheetahs and they’re not exactly successful on the field
But we’ve still got an ace up our sleeve, Rassie
29 Aug 2012, 22:21 pm
gavin rich hitting all the right notes.
http://www.supersport.com//rugby/blogs/gavin-rich/The_thinking_is_what_must_change
29 Aug 2012, 22:22 pm
@victoriabok-597: Flip, a big liability
@victoriabok-598: Daai mond van jou moet gewas word, Stormers ekke
29 Aug 2012, 22:28 pm
@JL1-604:
O, jammer, die “L” het my gekonfoes, dink seker aan RL?
29 Aug 2012, 22:28 pm
Paul Willemse is stukkend goed slot.. die jong Kobus Wiese.. hy’s amper grote as Wiese al klaar en hy’s nog nie 21 jaar oud. Kan maklik springbok word in minder as n jaar van nou af.
HO de Villiers was the first running full back before JPR Williams and those that followed on from there. Jouba and Christian Cullen and Serge Blanco, Chris Latham, Matt Rogers, Jason Robinson, James Small and the rest
Now we got Kirchner.. how much further do we still need to regress?
29 Aug 2012, 22:30 pm
@victoriabok-602: LIES!
the cheetahs play a wide game…most kiwis & those on reunion name the cheetahs as their favourite franchise to watch…
at the moment they are like chiefs teams of yesteryears, all out out attack & no krag, no defence! this is something that that they could remedy if they had money to keep vermuelen, juan & brussow.
it’s a common fallacy from the lazy-minded to shout that we’ve never played like the kiwis. we can do everything they can do
29 Aug 2012, 22:30 pm
@victoriabok-602:
The 81 Bok backline was superior to their Ab counterparts when moving the ball and they had a speed advantage to. The Sharks team this year had confidence to offload and use the ball that brought then success. I don’t buy into this traditional strengths stuff.
29 Aug 2012, 22:33 pm
@Transformation-607: No way, we do not enjoy sheep as they do
29 Aug 2012, 22:33 pm
@victoriabok-595: ek adverteer op oomblik 8 poste in my departement in Calgary. Wat is jou beroep? Die poste is in die Finansiele departement.
29 Aug 2012, 22:34 pm
Yes Aussie injury crisis looks perhaps even worse than ours
so it means that either NZ breeds far tougher players man for man.. or else their game is designed to effect less injury, i’e’ they play far smarter and away from direct traditional attrition collision points than we do.
29 Aug 2012, 22:35 pm
@fitz1ella-606:
Die ou op die Bulls site het hom klein Bakkies genoem, toe gaan kyk ek na sy stats
Hy is 2cm korter as Bakkies (2.00m vs 2.02m) maar drie kg swaarder (124kg vs 127kg)
Dis 3kg swaarder
Op 20 jaar oud?
Hy sal seker bietjie gewig verloor as die Bulle hom kondisioneer, kyk wat het die Sharks met Alberts gedoen toe hy daar aankom, hy het gou sy ekstra gewig verloor en ‘n Bok geword
29 Aug 2012, 22:35 pm
nah, any side that wins the collisions wins, the force and the cheetahs and the chiefs are all v good rugby sides – but all the great sides dominate upfront. the key is to use mitchell’s or naka’s gameplan but to have players that dominate the collisions. I’m all for running rugby, in fact i’d love it, but previous sides have not bullied their opponents, only when they have been able to do so, have they won, and this is the same for the ABs as it for the great England side that dominated world rugby ten years ago and the same for Mallett and Christie’s boks and the reason why the Boks are the only side that regularly can beat the ABs.
29 Aug 2012, 22:36 pm
@kwas-610:
Procurement
29 Aug 2012, 22:37 pm
@Big Hit-590: bok coaches pulling players from unions? that is a pipe dream in SA unless SARU bend over to appease meyer as even white complained in 2006 “i need more control”
6 years later franchise coaches can still do as they please.
29 Aug 2012, 22:39 pm
@Te Rangatira-608:
> The 81 Bok backline was superior to their Ab counterparts when moving the ball and they had a speed advantage to
Thank you, from a Kiwi, nonetheless
You still hear Naas Botha could only kick and that he killed our running rugby
I think the isolation also hurt innovation in our rugby
I remember how hard it was after 92 with all the rucks and phases, used to swear at Kefu and Kronfeldt
29 Aug 2012, 22:40 pm
@JL1-609: we enjoy lamb chops don’t we?
29 Aug 2012, 22:41 pm
@fitz1ella-606: but who would you select ahead of Kirchner? I know Kirch is useless but difficult see other options with Taute out injured. I presume Louis Luddick could be a good replacement but still very average.
29 Aug 2012, 22:41 pm
@Transformation-607:
True, even Sharkies showed against the Bulls and Reds that we have players that can offload if given the latitude to do so.
Lions have also tried manfully to give the ball some air, although dont really have the players to sustain that game plan nor the defence.
Was interesting reading Ackermann and how he said he wouldnt change the Lions style during the CC with Carlos and Mitchell gone and that he was keen for each player to be used on attack (all 15 men). Which is why you will often see Franco vd Merwe, Jacob thowing cut out passes and other forwards popping the ball to backs.
29 Aug 2012, 22:41 pm
@fitz1ella-611:
I don’t think Nz breed tougher players….Big Hit got it right about player management, resting certain players throughout the season and building depth.
Perhaps they do play a smarter game by not getting into the physical mauling type of game, but I don’t know if that keeps down the causualty list. I do believe that greater fitness and conditioning has alot to do with avoiding injuries.
29 Aug 2012, 22:42 pm
@victoriabok-612:
Hy’s net soos Kobus Wiese gebou soos n tenk, sal nie soos Bakkies lyk.. meer soos Kobus Wiese se klemtoon op swaarde krag
Hy moet eintlik sommer saam met Etzebeth nou al laat speel by no.4 en Etzebeth op 5.. sal die oplossing vir ons sagte vyf wees onmiddelik.
29 Aug 2012, 22:42 pm
@fitz1ella-606:
> HO de Villiers was the first running full back before JPR Williams and those that followed on from there. Jouba and Christian Cullen and Serge Blanco, Chris Latham, Matt Rogers, Jason Robinson, James Small and the rest
My favourite centre was Jeremy Guscott, not the best* but man he could slip through the smallest gap and the smoothest pass I’ve ever seen
*-Bunce and Little and Horan and Little were probably better
29 Aug 2012, 22:46 pm
@fitz1ella-621:
Ons mag die game verloor maar nooit die fight nie ?
29 Aug 2012, 22:47 pm
@Te Rangatira-608: just last weekend i watched the 81 bokke vs maori game that ended up 12 – 12 the likes of germishuis weren’t slouches indeed…it was a nervy game & the kiwi commentators were among the most biased i’ve ever heard hahaha
29 Aug 2012, 22:47 pm
@kwas-618: Andries Coetsee or Willie le Roux or Riaan Smit
even Aplon or Viljoen or Ludick or Lambie are better yet they are prone to defensive lapses., but no more so than Kirchner while at least offering some reasonable attacking promise.
I’m still not 100% sold on Frans Steyn at 12.. he may ultimately suit our cause better at 15, though my first choice would be Andries Coetsee right now and the Bulls fly half Fouche could be a very handy No. 15 too.
29 Aug 2012, 22:48 pm
@victoriabok-616:
Yeah you are right, isolation did hurt your rugby, it would hurt any country. When Mark Ella and the great Aussie backline of the early eighties carved the Abs up, Nz knew they had to change the way they used the ball and engage the defensive line and the willingness was there from the players and coaches and we can see the end product today.
29 Aug 2012, 22:50 pm
@Transformation-607:
> the cheetahs play a wide game…most kiwis & those on reunion name the cheetahs as their favourite franchise to watch…
Of course they would, nice to watch but no threat to their teams
29 Aug 2012, 22:50 pm
@Transformation-617: we do like those lamb chops, eish how I would like a Karoo chop now
29 Aug 2012, 22:50 pm
Agree with Skop on A.Coetzee.
For me, he is an easy choice for Bok fullback.
29 Aug 2012, 22:50 pm
@Te Rangatira-626:
I saw Ella play, I think it was against the French?
He ripped them a new one
29 Aug 2012, 22:54 pm
@Transformation-624:
That game was out of it.Did you see the drop kick go over at the end of the game that would have given the Maori the win?One of the most polarising times in Nz history, complete chaos.
29 Aug 2012, 22:57 pm
@willievz-629: If he was an Aussie or NZder he’d be a Wallaby or AB already..
how old was O’Connor when he became Wallaby..?
or that AB wing Guildford who’s not nearly as promising as young Coetsee.
but here our conservative mindset will never get the best out of him.. we’ll rather wait till he gets crocked in a meaningless CC game, like Goosen did before he could fulfill is best promise in national duty.
29 Aug 2012, 23:01 pm
@victoriabok-614: ek sal jou email. Ongelukkig is Procurement nie my area van expertise.
29 Aug 2012, 23:03 pm
@willievz-629: a.coetzee or whoever…he will be useless if we don’t play as a “back three” habana for all his pace & industry has ALWAYS had a poor skills set, can’t see him link up with any fullback & counter in tandem unless habana will get the ball & run straight!
there’s a reason the all blacks played dagg with jane & kahui either side of him.
29 Aug 2012, 23:03 pm
@fitz1ella-632:
They’ve played Horan and Little at 19 years old in the dirt tracker team on tour
It’s a shame we don’t have real tours anymore, we should do it with the EOYT, it’s the ideal way to blood youngsters
29 Aug 2012, 23:04 pm
@kwas-633:
Dankie man, ek waardeer dit
29 Aug 2012, 23:06 pm
@Transformation-634: You know my take on fullbacks in an SA context – I prefer a big booted, kicking 10.
But this kid is too special to be ignored. You find a way to accommodate him. Even if you need to pick new wingers.
29 Aug 2012, 23:07 pm
@willievz-637: kicking 15
29 Aug 2012, 23:08 pm
@fitz1ella-632:
Another youngster you should look out for is Volmink for the Lions who plays on the left wing – hasnt set the CC alight just yet but is very quick, good hands, and good footwork. Rhule looks to be very promising also. Just hope we get some more backline coaches like Hawies Fourie to alllow these guys to fulfil their potential.
29 Aug 2012, 23:08 pm
@Transformation-634: How good has he been in a Lions team who has Deon Van Rensburg as a winger…
29 Aug 2012, 23:08 pm
@fitz1ella-632:
> or that AB wing Guildford who’s not nearly as promising as young Coetsee.
Nah, nothing wrong with Zac,tons of talent and speed
Have you ever played a test with a hangover?:-)
29 Aug 2012, 23:10 pm
@pat1-639:
Rhule’s got the x-factor, he lives to score tries
29 Aug 2012, 23:22 pm
my new Bok backline looks like this
A. Coetsee
P. Jordaan
J. Serfontein
J. de Jongh
R. Rhule
J. Goosen
F. Hougaard
I bet they would smack the current Boks out the park for a six.
Or
A. Coetsee
S. Sithole
P. Jordaan
J. Serfontein
R. Rhule
J. Goosen
F. Hougaard
29 Aug 2012, 23:27 pm
yip that Volminck looks a promising player but Rhule look like he could step right up to the big time tomorrow. I reckon he’s almost already better than both Habana and Mvovo
29 Aug 2012, 23:29 pm
@fitz1ella-644:
He is, he’s still hungry for it, like a young boxer, a contender for the title.
Habana hasn’t been hungry for a while, if you don’t want it, you won’t get it
29 Aug 2012, 23:34 pm
@fitz1ella-643:
What about JJ Engelbrecht?
29 Aug 2012, 23:41 pm
Yes I wanted to place JJ at 11 but I reckon Rhule should go straight up to start so Engelbrecht either start at 13 or 14 ahead of Jordaan or go to bench.
Sadie might still make a come back when he goes to Cheetahs
Cheetahs back line going to look like this
Pretorius / Van Zyl, Goosen, Rhule, Strauss, Ebersohn, Sadie, Smit / Le Roux
Not too shabby.. could also smack the bok back line for six. Only one not top class is Strauss at 12.
29 Aug 2012, 23:44 pm
@fitz1ella-647:
He tackles hard though, he should teach Spies how to and charge money for it
29 Aug 2012, 23:47 pm
yip Strauss is a very hard tackler.. one of those no nonsense true grit type players.. would teach Spies plenty about tackling, maybe they should convert him to flank
anyway out now.. g.night
29 Aug 2012, 23:50 pm
Old news by now no doubt but just read that Andrew Strauss has resigned/retired from test cricket. Is this not the 3rd time an England captain has been battered into early retirement by Graemme Smith?
29 Aug 2012, 23:57 pm
@fitz1ella-649:
Night Skop
30 Aug 2012, 00:02 am
@kwas-650:
Maybe he couldn’t stand it when he finally realized what a “doos” is?
30 Aug 2012, 00:14 am
@victoriabok-652: ja, just too much emotion in that little word. Seriously though, Smith has ended the career of three English captains in a decade. How soft are these guys? Cheers
30 Aug 2012, 00:58 am
I’d rather risk Vermuelen and Goosen than have another game with those slithering Potgieter and Steyn creatures lumbering lethargically around the field.
30 Aug 2012, 01:34 am
Good call HM, so you not that doff after all, now all you need to do is get rid of Kirschner and it’s looking much better!
Louw, Alberts and Coetzee should make up a usefull loose trio with Vermuelen in the mix when fit. (Fitter)
I hope Goosen is fully fit, last thing we need is sending blokes into battle half cooked.
30 Aug 2012, 07:54 am
@Transformation-607: If Ihad to choose a backline coach from SA for the Boks, I would immediately go for Hawies Fourie from the Cheetahs. I just don’t know if he would fit into HM’s master plan, although HM combined pretty well with the Ozzie back line coach when the Bulls first won the S14
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