Lions players chasing exit
29 Aug 2012
Prop Jacobie Adriaanse and lock Ruan Botha are the latest Lions players to confirm their departures at the end of the Currie Cup campaign.
Adriaanse will head to Europe, where he’ll join Welsh club Scarlets, while Botha will make a move to the Cape as he’s signed a deal with WP.
Adriaanse has been a big feature at tighthead prop for the Lions this season. Twenty-year-old Botha made his Super Rugby debut for the Lions and was part of the Baby Bok squad that won the Junior World Championship title in June.
Lock Paul Willemse (Blue Bulls) and prop Caylib Oosthuizen (Free State Cheetahs) have also announced their exits in recent weeks.
Most of the Lions’ key players have signed on until the end of 2013, which will keep them at the union until the South African Super Rugby promotion-relegation play-off against next year’s last-placed local franchise. However, Springbok hooker Bandies Maku, flyhalf Butch James and centre Waylon Murray do not feature in that group.
Of those contracted players, only flyhalf Elton Jantjies has a clause which allows him to feature for another Super Rugby team next season.
Lions players contracted until 2013 – JC Janse van Rensburg, CJ van der Linde, Callie Visagie, Pat Cilliers, Hendrik Roodt, Franco van der Merwe, Derick Minnie, Jaco Kriel, Michael Rhodes, Stephan Greeff, Josh Strauss, Warren Whiteley, Michael Bondesio, Ross Cronje, Whestley Moolman, Elton Jantjies (with contract clause), Guy Cronje, Jaco Taute, Alwyn Hollenbach, Lionel Mapoe, Dylan des Fountain, Bradley Moolman, Deon van Rensburg, Deon Helberg, Andries Coetzee, James Kamana.
189 Comments
29 Aug 2012, 08:14 am
“Of those contracted players, only flyhalf Elton Jantjies has a clause which allows him to feature for another Super rugby team next season.”
Not only Jantjies… there is a few more.
Also I don’t think the Lions will make a fuss (well I hope not) if another union want a player to assist during their S15 campaign. Question is if a player gets in injured who will pay the bill.
29 Aug 2012, 08:18 am
Those contracts will mean sweet nothing when the union folds as per Dok Luyt.
29 Aug 2012, 08:19 am
Deon Helberg only signed recently as he was still playing for Tuks in the Carlton cup.
29 Aug 2012, 08:25 am
Where is Butch going?
29 Aug 2012, 08:29 am
As this is a Lions thread, I have this little somethin’ for katman:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKL9XRMp-iw&feature=related
29 Aug 2012, 08:30 am
So will the plan be to incorporate some of these players to other unions as loans during next years S15 ala NZ rugby – some of these players could certainly add to the struggling SA unions ????
29 Aug 2012, 08:31 am
Butch probably will head back to England …or even Japan.I don’t believe any other province can afford his wages or are willing to pay it.
29 Aug 2012, 08:40 am
thats the end of the lions then.
what a stupid and kak way for the administrators / exacs to handle this highly sensitive transition period for the lions. what a bunch of sweet farken dooses.
how educated are these moegoes? what sort of business training / acumen do they actually have? wht farken planet are these dooses from?
what is this ‘how to be a domdoos in business 101′..?…
this has gone beyond any point or hope of bitter acrimonius verbal argument slanging to find workable solutions stage…
its time for physical violence in the boardroom
people need to start hitting other people, and be hit
these execs need to be attacked on thier way out of the union offices
or accosted in public wherever
fark
i am sick to my stomach of this farken two bit doos operation
fark
fark
fark
29 Aug 2012, 08:40 am
@stew-6:
who farken knows stew
who farken knows
29 Aug 2012, 08:44 am
nothing is orderly
nothing is planned
no one is at the wheel
nobody’s home
i am banging the keyboard of my computer
i better stop
i just need to calm down
oh ***** help me i will lose it
29 Aug 2012, 08:47 am
@wnbb-7:
Butch aint going anywhere overseas.
His contract is up at the end of this year and he will either retire or look to play one further season somewhere locally.
My guess is he’ll try for a smaller contract with the Sharks as backup to Lambie for the 2013 S15.
Hes playing some great rugby right now so having him back in the ranks would be great.
29 Aug 2012, 08:48 am
im just so sick and tired of this i cant take this anymore i really cannot take this anymore
29 Aug 2012, 08:49 am
Lions should work out a loan system for there players. Loan them to the other unions but not to the Kings. Firstly there players will develop alot at the other Unions with a winning culture. If they go to the kings the kings wont have a winning culture and play the lions players into the ground, massive injury lost ect. But when it comes to the regulation battle game and all the lions players had relatively good seasons at the other unions (bulls, Sharks, Stormers, Cheetahs) they will smash the Kings in that game.
29 Aug 2012, 08:51 am
@John Galt-11: I heard Cilliers although under contract is wanting to go back to Durbs, Either by getting out of his contract if not on a loan basis just for SR then returning to the Lions for the CC.
The was however mentioned on E News that Jantjes could be heading to the Tank
29 Aug 2012, 08:51 am
why god why
why cant you make some of these executive dinsaur dooses jus farken die already
why msut we suffer like this
for how farken long
i am banging on the keybaord again
i lneed to calm down
i meed to drink so,e tea
29 Aug 2012, 08:51 am
@patch-13: Exactly patch, already talk of this in Durban,
29 Aug 2012, 08:59 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-10 Chillax my man. This is sadly to be expected and you cant really blame the players that are able to get out now… except Oosthuizen.. going to the BACKSTABBING Cheetahs…where he will be benched for the bulk of his time…idiot.
A phoenix can only rise from the ashes…this is the burning. KdK can do this and whatever the lack of merit in the odious Kings…the GLRU have needed a serious kicking for a loooong time now. I just hope they can survive the medicine! How can SA’s biggest City NOT have a S15 team??? SARU insanity… the viewer stats will show it and the weakened SANZAR negotiating position will confirm it.
29 Aug 2012, 09:00 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-15:
watch this bru, it will help calm you down some..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjedLeVGcfE
29 Aug 2012, 09:00 am
@sharks_lover-14:
Dont know whether Jaintjies would want to go to Durbs. Considering Plum has already voiced his decision to play Lambie exclusively at 10 next year.
Would have thought he’d choose the Bulls or Stormers.
29 Aug 2012, 09:04 am
Hang on, I thought that according to Keo, all of these Lions players would be going to the Kings once they got a Supre Rugby berth?
So what now for Cheeky’s royals?
29 Aug 2012, 09:13 am
@John Galt-19: Well on Enews the Sports journo the other evening mentioned that there is a possibillity of Jantjes either going to WP or Sharks, and it seemed more likely the SHarks, so yeah i hear ya but not sure. I would rather we had Butch as back up, the old fella is still playing good rugga.
Cilliers mentioned on twitter he is missing Durbs big time, lastly i also heard Taite could be on ,loan with the Sharks too for the Super 15, he and Cillier would have to return for the CC to the LIons obviously. guess we will have to wait and see
29 Aug 2012, 09:14 am
@Tacitus-20:
If they dont go and play for the Kings, a Vodacom Cup team will feature in the Super rugby Competition….!
29 Aug 2012, 09:14 am
@Tacitus-20: Those players wont go to the Kings, you might have a few that do, will the get called the lion king then??
29 Aug 2012, 09:14 am
@Tacitus-20: Dare I say it? Yup, I dare, the Lions are definitely going to be in the running for the Vodacom Cup next year, looks like a strong team…
29 Aug 2012, 09:15 am
Its been a huge problem for SA rugby over the last 15 years that all the good tightheads keep going overseas while the Boks have average 3s to choose from
29 Aug 2012, 09:17 am
@sharks_lover-21: Why would the Sharks be more likely? Playing behind Lambie? He’d be silly…. Remember the sharks already have Viljoen and Ludik at 15, so Lambie should feature at 10…
29 Aug 2012, 09:18 am
@Bok fan-25: Not much in the way of quality TH overseas also…seems to be a dying breed…
29 Aug 2012, 09:20 am
@patch-13: Surefire way to lose your players forever, look at the Cheetahs S15 team, at the beginning of the Season there are some Griquas players in the S15 team, start the Currie Cup, and all the Griquas wear Orange and white strip…strange eh what?
29 Aug 2012, 09:20 am
@thesaint-27:
Well, as long as they’re a dying breed for everyone, then no one is worse off, comparatively speaking.
But somehow it just seems that we are suffering particularly badly in this department.
29 Aug 2012, 09:21 am
@John Galt-19: I heard the same on the news the other day that Jantjies may be heading to the Sharks. Then have no idea where e-news get there info.
I personally hope it does not happen, as Lambie might be messed about again and shifted to fb. As Plum said this year Lambie is our 1st choice fh then he got injured and we had Fred go there. Next year want Lambie to start all games at fh. If we have Jantjies there then have no idea. Jantjies should be thinking of going to Stormers where he will get plenty game time. He will probably start every game. Would like Pat Cilliers to come back home to Sharks too.
29 Aug 2012, 09:22 am
@John Galt-11: If I am not mistaken, the Sharks move has already been confirmed earlier in the season…
29 Aug 2012, 09:22 am
@Tacitus-20: How can the Kings be competitive in next years S15 are we going to see scores of 100 – 0 everygame , are teams going to play a B side against the Kings as victory is gauranteed with 5 points …. this is a fiasco created by SA rugby and i cant see the other nations or TV being happy with this ….. I dont think this saga is over yet
29 Aug 2012, 09:23 am
@Tacitus-20: He was spotted with a shopping trolley at the Griffons Leopards game.
29 Aug 2012, 09:23 am
Anybody any ideas who will be in this team ?
29 Aug 2012, 09:24 am
@sharks_lover-21:
WOuld be great to have Cilliers back. Even if just for the S15 as he can cover both TH and LH.
Herbst needs one more season to develop as a TH methinks.
Ditto for Chadwick at LH.
Jaintjies, as well as he is playing…dont think it would be the best move for him.
29 Aug 2012, 09:24 am
@Rooibaard2000-17:
those people responsible (believe me they kno w who they are) should hang their heads in shame and live with themselves in digust.
i am sick to my stomach at what they are doing.
i would not have continued taking money for a job i am not good at and in fact just farking up. how can they not see their ineptness and understand they are in fact the problem?
i do hope the lions will survive this. i hope they will thrive in cc at the least but even this will become difficult if this exodus continues.
how will they plan for their relegation / promotion playoffs next season in terms of a squad which has played together long enough and is experienced in gametime as a team? will they plan at all?
@poppa69-18:
i dont know if i have the energy to laugh or cry with you this morning poppa.
i think my nerves or something are shot
29 Aug 2012, 09:24 am
@stew-32:
I’m not arguing with you on that.
29 Aug 2012, 09:24 am
@stew-32: 10 gift points to their 4 remaining teams..
at least we will all know without doubt which is the weakest conference I guess..
29 Aug 2012, 09:24 am
The Lions will be overwhelming favourites for the Vodacom cup next year.
29 Aug 2012, 09:26 am
So many rumours…who knows where these players will eventally end up.
Good career move by Ruaan Botha though to come to CT. He should get lots of game time with Bekker injured at least 50% of the time, Quinn Roux off to Ireland and Seenkamp nothing but a gentleman journeyman (like his brother at the bulls).
29 Aug 2012, 09:26 am
@Tacitus-29: I think that the looseheads are just becoming better, lots of TH shifting over, I was a TH myself, moved over to LH in Craven Week the Club rugby, much easier, less pressure on the back and neck…basically TH is a kuk position to play, lots of injuries to contend with, I honestly think, quality TH’s are playing loosehead at the moment, which is the reason that all TH looks so poor…this is true for the whole world I think…
29 Aug 2012, 09:27 am
@Tacitus-37:
Are there no rumours in the local PE press about players moving down there?
29 Aug 2012, 09:28 am
Part of a story on R365
“Luyt, who was head of Transvaal (now Lions) rugby from 1986 to 2000, was in fact very critical of his immediate successors and De Klerk’s predecessors – who cost the union in the region of R85-million in investments, set up by Luyt.
As this website had reported previously, the GLRU (previously Transvaal) had offshore investments worth R85-million and when Luyt suggested they bring the money back to SA – as he felt the market was about to turn – and reinvest that money at about 10 percent per annum, the GLRU bosses at the time stubbornly refused. By the time they did bring back the cash invested abroad, it had lost more than half its value – R45-million to be precise.
But it is how the media overlooked (or ignored) Luyt’s endorsement of De Klerk that caused the most amusement.
Asked if anybody at the Lions had phoned him, or asked for help, Luyt told Ballz radio that he has had “discussions” with De Klerk.
“He is a fantastic man, he is a great guy,” Luyt told the online station.”
29 Aug 2012, 09:28 am
@Robzim-40: Quin Roux will be playing S15 in the Cape, I understand his contract is the same as Grant’s in Japan, only plays abroad in the CC season…
29 Aug 2012, 09:29 am
@katman-33:
To me it’s not about the practicalities, contract issues, timeframes or any other constraint limiting the success of the Kings.
To me, the premise on which it is all based, is fundamentally flawed. There is no reason whatsoever why the Kings deserve participation in any competition any more than the Griffons or Griquas do.
This entire transformation argument is hogwash. Just like the rumoured 200,000 eager rugby players just waiting to stream forth from the Pondoland hills to make the Kings the powerhouse of world rugby.
29 Aug 2012, 09:31 am
@stew-32: I think it is a total mess. Will be very embarrassing seeing the kiwi sides getting 100 past them. Some of the saffa teams will too. Unless they have plenty money to be buying some overseas players. Doubt they have the money for that either.
29 Aug 2012, 09:31 am
@thesaint-44:
If that is so it will be very good news. Last time I heard Rob Wagner was “working on ensuring he will come back to CT” so hopefully they have sorted it.
29 Aug 2012, 09:31 am
how good do you have to be to fark up an already moerse fark up.
beggars belief.
29 Aug 2012, 09:32 am
@Robzim-42:
No idea.
The core of the Kings will be Afrikaans boytjies from Uitenhage and Despatch again, with a figurehead white Xhosa as captain, and his dad, Emperor Cheeky Palpatine pumping out transformation propaganda in the background.
Oh, and a couple of black wings and the odd black centre to add some colour to the sorry mess.
29 Aug 2012, 09:33 am
If a player in the PE Region was good enough, one of the Top Unions would have already picked him up, development was working albeit not in PE itself, but the Top players did get through, there is a reason that EP has never won the Currie Cup, even when the original Currie Cup was played with 6 teams aeons ago, they were kuk from the start, with one or two bright lights coming along now and then…
29 Aug 2012, 09:33 am
Luyt was also asked about a decision not to move away from their Doornfontein premises, the Ellis Park stadium, which is situated in an area that has become crime infested over the years.
“We would have,” he said, when asked if they considered moving, adding: “We had an offer for Ellis Park and we would have gone to Kempton Park and we would have had a fantastic stadium there – about 70,000 people and we would have sold all the suites. We did our calculations, like business men, and we would have been a wonderful union, but we didn’t get there.”
29 Aug 2012, 09:33 am
@stew-32:
Yep this is going to cause a lot of sshit. SARU will once again embarrass SA and its supporters ever single weekend!
If only SANZAR allowed SA to have its way and grant them 6 teams, but its still SARU’s fault.
Perfect example of why politics and sport shouldn’t mix. May this be a lessen to them.
29 Aug 2012, 09:33 am
@Atlas-43:
it would not surprise me if, after losing half of their investment portfolios worth those dosses were given (read: gave themselves) moerse golden handshakes on leaving office.
29 Aug 2012, 09:34 am
@Tacitus-49:
Yes.
We shall call them the Seagulls.
All white with black wings.
29 Aug 2012, 09:35 am
Your life must be real fun Tacitus.
29 Aug 2012, 09:36 am
@wnbb-55:
To be honest, in this country, no it’s not.
I’m cursing myself for hanging around these last 5 years, and checking the window of opportunity I have to leave before the curtain comes down.
29 Aug 2012, 09:36 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-53:
Jip, but it wasn’t KdK. He’s trying to fix the mess.
29 Aug 2012, 09:37 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-53:
hush my bakkies
dont fear my bakkies
the lion dies tonight
29 Aug 2012, 09:38 am
@Atlas-57:
Damn, must learn to read the hole comment
sorry Bakkies
29 Aug 2012, 09:38 am
@Atlas-51:
why did they not get there?
at what stage was the deal won or lost.
29 Aug 2012, 09:39 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-60:
Wimoweh, wimoweh, wimoweh, wimoweh
Wimoweh, wimoweh, wimoweh, wimoweh
29 Aug 2012, 09:39 am
@Atlas-57:
he is not doing a good job though, is he.
29 Aug 2012, 09:40 am
@Atlas-57: Kevin de Klerk is a poephol of note, as is most of the Lions’ management, get rid of the whole top management, replace them with businessmen, and start again…
29 Aug 2012, 09:42 am
@Jeez-52:
All the while not one but two rugby unions get screwed. The Kings cant and wont sign decent players and will be slaughtered every weekend!
They will then consequently lose their Super rugby spot to a watered down Lions team.
And after the Lions lost most of their decent players, due to their super rugby wilderness, wont be competitive enough to compete in super rugby in 2014 and will be the bottom feeders once more!
Big F up thanks to SARU.
29 Aug 2012, 09:43 am
@thesaint-41:
Apparently, quality THs are amongst the most sought after and highly paid players in the NH.
29 Aug 2012, 09:44 am
@poppa69-58:
@poppa69-61:
remember, he lions death wil lbe to the other super franchises gain.
10 bp’s and easy games with no injuries.
keep laughing you fool
29 Aug 2012, 09:46 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-66:
there will be injuries though
to SA rugby’s pride (pun intended)
29 Aug 2012, 09:47 am
@thesaint-63:
Asked if it can be turned around, amidst all the doom and gloom, Luyt said liquidation is a possibility.
“I’ll tell you one thing, if the GLRU owes more money than it can pay, it will have to go into liquidation. The directors and managers [of the GLRU] will have to consider this. It’s terribly painful for me to contemplate that it could be sequestrated and closed down because it was the finest and strongest union in the world not so long ago.
“Unless they did that [go into sequestration] they are gone.”
Asked how he felt about the fact that the biggest city in the country can’t sustain a team, Luyt said he can’t believe it.
“What we needed to do … and I am well out of the way – I would have gone to a number of very big [businessmen] and say: ‘Let’s make this union the best in the world.’ You can do it without too much money. I would have put a plan forward to them. There was no plan, no bloody plan. What the hell did they do all that time?”
Now Luyt is/was a businessman. KdK is not
I think thats the big deference
29 Aug 2012, 09:47 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-62: I think we should stop blaming SARU for the Lions, and have the Lions sweep before their own door… every single decision made, every player bought or sold, every coach appointed or fired went through the hands of management. Buying up 2nd string players from other unions ie. Maku, Hollenbach, Des Fountain, Cilliers, Adriaanse, Cronje, Bondesio, Murray, Mapoe, Helberg, Van Rensburg etc. and the expecting to do with them what the other (more professional) unions couldn’t, is ludicrous in any language. You expect a player, in some cases not good enough to regularly make the bench at other unions, to step up and be competitive against his erstwhile teammates, who were all better than him in the first place? Please, the stupidity is tangible…
29 Aug 2012, 09:48 am
@Atlas-68:
See Transie, copy and paste
29 Aug 2012, 09:51 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-60:
As I understand it, Luyt was busy organising it just before he left
The poepolle after him did not go thru with the deal
29 Aug 2012, 09:51 am
@Tacitus-45: That’s exactly what we’ve been saying all along. Why not include Limpopo in the Super15? Or Ma-poep-al-lankal? Or Johannesburg, for that matter?
If you’re just going to shift the players down there anyway (and only a handful, and not even all the good ones), and shop around overseas and at other unions for mildly unhappy or borderline over-the-hill talent, what exactly have you achieved for transformation?
When the lobbying was at its fiercest, we were told, in epic movie trailer tones, of the 200 000 black players waiting for their opportunities that had been cruelly denied them till now. But now that the money’s in the bank, those guys have been told to not give up their goat herding jobs just yet – Cheeky will be in contact in due course.
And let’s not forget the circumstances under which the hotbed of African rugby was so “unjustly” denied participation in the lucrative Southern Hemisphere showpiece. They didn’t like being the smaller partner in the Sharks franchise – even after plenty of games were negotiated for PE – and took the fat divorce settlement offered them. Now that the money is spent, they want in again. You’ve seen this with ex-wives, you’ve seen it with Cheeky.
We simply cannot get away from We Must Have It. Rock drill operators want R12500 AFTER all deductions, which equals almost R20 000 cost to company. They Must Have It. Zuma wants a new jet, complete with R70 million interior make-over. He Must Have It. The Yoof league want Constantia and the Rondebosch common. They Must Have It. Feels like it will take about a century for us to rid ourselves of this culture of non-accountability and hand-out.
29 Aug 2012, 09:54 am
@Atlas-70:
29 Aug 2012, 09:57 am
@katman-72:
State of the art German submarines – Big smile, aviator sunglasses and medal filled military uniform: “We Be Having It.”
P.S.
Parking Control yet to be installed.
29 Aug 2012, 10:00 am
yeah the rock drillers want to have it too!, yet Lonmin itself has been ignoring the Benchmark report on living conditions at the mine for YEARS, a 100 people sharing four toilets, poor quality water contaminated to the nth degree BUT hey the shareholders and mining bosses must HAVE it because it’s capitalism
29 Aug 2012, 10:02 am
Sharks have signed Pieter Dixon as backup hooker for the rest of the CC.
Someone with a bit of experience was sorely needed to bolster the Sharks hooking stocks with Bissie, Burden and Cooper out for various reasons.
29 Aug 2012, 10:04 am
@Atlas-68:
and there you have it.
@thesaint-69:
its more than tangible, its breathtaking.
the fact that they did not have emergency plans in place in the event they were relegated, so as to take the initiative and stabalise the situation.
did anyone brainstorm a / the likely scenario for after relegation, in the boardroom? was / is there a two / five / ten / fifteen year plan of any sort compiled by the executive?
once relegation was confirmed, did the executive / board spring into crisis mode and convene as many meetings as neccesary (running as long as neccesary) in order to agree on a plan of action and solution and then cleary communicate this message to the various stakeholders from players to staff to sponsors to investors to ticket/suite holders?
this is not big picture crisis management at all. this is headless chicken putting out fires here and there management.
29 Aug 2012, 10:06 am
GIVE IT TO THEM!
29 Aug 2012, 10:09 am
What I want to know is why people expect rugby unions to remain well run operations when the country around them is falling to pieces?
You cannot operate in splendid isolation.
The whole saga is merely a symptom of the larger problems we’re facing.
29 Aug 2012, 10:09 am
@Atlas-71:
for want of a nail…
29 Aug 2012, 10:12 am
@Tacitus-79:
Move Tacitus
Movie
Check with Dusky on Norway.
29 Aug 2012, 10:13 am
Bakkies
Divert your anger to Pops
Should help
29 Aug 2012, 10:13 am
@Dawn-78: ffs dawn everyone here’s been jumping on cyril ramaphosa as if he owns 80% of Lonmin, who the hell are the other shareholders, are they not south african, do they not have a responsibility to run a decent and humane business?
to get mining rights from the government these companies promise to INVEST back into the surrounding communities, what i’ve seen and read is far from that promise…the mining bosses have been having it for YEARS on the backs of the rockdrillers but now sense and economics must prevail…pffftt
29 Aug 2012, 10:15 am
@Tacitus-79: i agree EP Rugby went to shambles because the country was going to the dogs
29 Aug 2012, 10:15 am
@Dawn-82: I have already made up a
“justice for leeus-ers” armband, 300 rand each..
how many do you wish to purchase?
29 Aug 2012, 10:15 am
@Dawn-78:
give it to who by who?
huh?
@Tacitus-79:
oh good lord, are you now blaming black people for white peoples farkups at running rugby unions?
what next, will you blame apartheid too?
oh the irony
29 Aug 2012, 10:16 am
@Transformation-75: There are wrongs on both side of this mess. If you choose to ignore the one side, you flush your credibility down one of those four toilets.
Did you know that their pay package includes a R1850 housing subsidy for boarding and meals? And did you know that many, if not most, choose to rent their own cheap accommodation and pocket the subsidy? But they don’t add this – along with their medical aid, pension and tax – to their take-home pay when the journalists ask.
I’m not saying Lonmin is innocent. And I’m not saying the police were justified. But when you factor in the fact that the average rock drill operator at Marakane was earning a gross salary of between R10 000 and R11 000 before bonuses, the picture changes a little. Both sides have been guilty of distorting the truth by selectively switching between nett and gross figures depending on the point they’re trying to make.
Now add the crazy stories of the R500-a-pop muti sprinkling that a sangoma guaranteed would stop the bullets, the rabbit that they were told not to kill if they wanted to stay safe, but which they chased and killed anyway (sounds like the apple in the Garden of Eden), two cops hacked to death just days earlier by the same group of miners, and the fact that a militant new union (that stands to benefit financially) promised them crazy money and told them – mostly young, angry, impressionable men – that they’d rather die than leave empty-handed, and it’s hardly surprising that we had a bloodbath.
I can’t speak for the number of toilets per miner, but I do know there is a huge amount of obfuscation and opportunistic spin that’s muddying the water here.
29 Aug 2012, 10:18 am
its just bad busines conducted by a bunch of bad businessmen
we need to get rid of these dooses and get some people in there who know how to run a farking union
bring luyt back if needs be
29 Aug 2012, 10:20 am
@Dawn-82:
no
i think i need to step away for a bit
clear my head
my blood pressure is up and i feel energyless
29 Aug 2012, 10:22 am
@Transformation-83:
I actually agree with you on this.
Rampant capitalism is a flawed concept.
When Adam Smith wrote the wealth of nations back in whatever century (1700′s, if I recall correctly), the basis of capitalism was a multitude of small entrepreneurs all competing with one another to create this “invisible hand” that is the free market economy.
Meaning that with each guy pursuing his individual interest, it is also serving the interest of the economy as a whole.
But this concept was not intended for huge corporations. It was intended for small entrepreneurs.
The power that these huge firms have allows for exploitation of this system and a reduction in the flexibility and vibrancy of this free market principle.
In short, there should be no supermarket chain stores, just a thousand Greek grocers on your local street corners.
There should be no massive clothing stores, just a multitude of tailors selling their wares.
There should be no huge furniture chains, just thousands of carpentars making furniture for their local neighbourhoods.
That would restore capitalism and private enterprise as it was intended.
Of course, along with this would come an increase in prices,and a decrease in living standards, but so what. All it would mean is that you don’t get to buy the latest fashions every year, but instead you buy new clothes when the old ones become threadbare.
Or that you buy a new table when the old one breaks, rather than because a more trendy one has come out this year.
Bottomline:
The pursuit of endless economic growth cannot be sustained. Instead, we should go back to a simple quality of life, that is not based on consumerism, but on providing for your family, and making the most of the time you have left to spend with your loved ones.
End of rant.
29 Aug 2012, 10:23 am
Can we just leave Lonmin out of this debate
We all have our views
29 Aug 2012, 10:28 am
@katman-87: Transie and co will never admit to that.
Also remember he forgets that as one of the main share holders a,d a former FREEDOM FIGHTER, surely he would have made sure his workers had and live in the right conditions etc
29 Aug 2012, 10:29 am
@Dawn-91: No, it is important that this issue is discussed, and not swept aside. If is so happens to be on a Rugby Blog so be it.
Political apathy is the greatest problem this country facing, particularly among younger generations.
So long as the discussion is conducted in a respectful manner then let it happen.
29 Aug 2012, 10:33 am
@katman-87: i’m not ignoring anything katman just bringing balance to this conversation as it always creeps up and it s ALWAYS skew in its analysis, perfect example your breakdown of the salaries… you, tacitus and many here have indeed FLUSHED your credibilities down the toilets if that is the case as i have not YET seen one breakdown of Lonmin profits and further a breakdown of their OBLIGATORY investment into the living conditions of their OWN workers let alone the surrounding communities
29 Aug 2012, 10:34 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-88:
Agree, bring back Luyt
There is nothing wrong with his mind, even if he is 80
He made Transvaal the richest union in the world
He made Saru (Sarfu back then) the richest national union in the world
He is a businessman, not a playing to politicions
A 70,000 seater in Kempton would have been excelent
Come on Luyt, we need you
29 Aug 2012, 10:36 am
@sharks_lover-92: oh shut up! you have no original thoughts and insight always jumping on bandwagons!
29 Aug 2012, 10:38 am
@Transformation-96: firstly little boy, come make me shut up, you Mgodoyi, 2ndly i did exactly what you always do, always jump on the band wagon to antagonise, fcukin Msunuhinja
29 Aug 2012, 10:40 am
@Transformation-96:
at trying to say i do the things you do, its what you thrive on
29 Aug 2012, 10:40 am
@Atlas-95: LL would’nt thake kak thats for sure
29 Aug 2012, 10:41 am
@Transformation-96: And lastly you know the truth hurts, People like KAtman and a few others of us see right through your little charade
29 Aug 2012, 10:42 am
On the Lonmin issue.
I do find it interesting that all those thousands of workers from the Aurora mine which was so woefully mismanaged by the politically connected guys that own it, and who have been cheated out of millions of rands of wages, didn’t go on a panga wielding rampage to get their grievances addressed.
Instead, we saw a number of suicides by miners who had lost their cars, houses and life savings, and couldn’t feed their children any longer as a result of Kulobuse fat arse raking in his ill gotten gains while ******** the workers that had made him his money.
But no hacking to death of police officers or random rapes and murders of innocent bystanders.
Now what could the difference be, I wonder…
29 Aug 2012, 10:45 am
@Transformation-94: Seriously, are you going divvy up the company profits among the workers? In an ideal socialist world, that would work. But if you want to do that here, then you have to start with men like Christo Wiese and Whitey Basson, and get round to the likes of Lonmin on the third or fourth page of a very long list.
And so you start paying rock drill operators for one mining company in the North-West Province over R19 500 a month (because that’s what it would cost for them to take home R12 500), and suddenly every labourer in every industry in SA with a union will want the same. Do you seriously think that’s tenable? Do you think a nett pay of R12 500 a month is in any way grounded in reality?
Stick your emotions aside for a minute and think rationally. What does a Golden Arrow bus driver deserve per month? And a municipal refuse collector? How about the lady who dishes lunch at the parliament canteen? Or the cleaning ladies at your work? Or the guy who also drills rocks, but not for Lonmin?
29 Aug 2012, 10:45 am
@sharks_lover-92: so cyril as the “former freedom fighter” – actually he comes from a mining union background) has MORE responsibility than ANY of the other shareholders whose credentials and skin colour we don’t know?
cyril should’ve been rattling sabers at board meetings i guess.
29 Aug 2012, 10:46 am
Politics?
cheers
29 Aug 2012, 10:49 am
@katman-102: no man, don’t be simplistic now…i am saying…it is CRIMINAL for the 3rd largest platinum mining company to be ignoring reports by NGOs and other interested groups!
corporate social responsibility is also part of business and not only the bottom line, now all this socialist klaptrap you’re on about is *”strawman” nonsense
*thank Tac
29 Aug 2012, 10:50 am
@Transformation-103: MAte, dont get me wrong, I think Cyril is one of the smartest shrewdest business men in this country, but after having fought for so long against poor treatement and conditions etc, surely in any comapny he owns he would make sure of those wrongs?? Not So?
29 Aug 2012, 10:51 am
@Atlas-104: Atually i normally walk away from these toppics and for the first time today got myself caught up in it, imma shut it outa my mind now
Back to rugga
29 Aug 2012, 10:58 am
@Transformation-105: Now you’re pretending the issue was about community CSI or the number of toilets per worker in the shared accommodation, but we all know it was about the take-home pay. That’s the only reason those 3 000 men were on that koppie.
Actually, that’s not even entirely true, as many of those men weren’t even Lonmin employees, or mine workers, for that matter. They were co-opted into this mess to swell AMCU’s ranks in this criminal turf war for (very lucrative) union membership in which the cannon fodder was always going to be the poor miners.
All those other issues you raise are true and valid, and Lonmin has a responsibility to rectify this immediately, but that’s not what created this mess.
29 Aug 2012, 11:02 am
@katman-108:
They weren’t employees?
29 Aug 2012, 11:02 am
@sharks_lover-92: His workers? Only Cyril’s workers? What are you implying Shark lover? What makes them more his, than the other shareholders workers? Please tell us exactly what you mean.
29 Aug 2012, 11:03 am
OK then
Then they all deserved to get shot in the back.
And if indeed there was much “hacking to death of police officers or random rapes and murders of innocent bystanders” then they double deserved to be murdered.
29 Aug 2012, 11:04 am
@katman-108: no pretence, but your initial post about cheeky etc that involved the lonmin drillers was as equally oppotunistic and crass as this issue is multi-layered than just rockdrillers who want to go on the hog!
i’m happy when facts are presented and not just empty emo rhetoric!
29 Aug 2012, 11:06 am
@sharks_lover-106:
Cyril doesn’t own Lonmin, or anything near it. His company Shanduka owns 50% of a BEE company that owns 18% of 2 of Lonmins operations, and he’s only a non exec director since 2010. I’m not saying that he shouldn’t have done more, but his company is a minor player in a London based listed entity.
29 Aug 2012, 11:07 am
@Dawn-111: Common purpose doctrine
29 Aug 2012, 11:09 am
See on Sports24 that Andrew Struass the England cricket captain is about to step down.
G. Smith does it again…..hehehe. 3 times now England have lost a captain after losing to us.
Also has anyone heard the rumour about Frncois Venter and Jan Serfontein that may be called up to the Boks Squad?
29 Aug 2012, 11:09 am
@rossoneri-110: Rossi you know full well thats not how it’s meant, ok workers of his and his co owner/shareholders
better??
29 Aug 2012, 11:10 am
@David-113:
It’s easy to blame Cyril.
For some people.
29 Aug 2012, 11:11 am
@David-113: David i understand that, and I am not saying he is alone to blame, As i said i actually have a lot of respect for Cyril, I even paid good money a few years agot to attend a seminar he gave at the ICC center in Durban.
But as a share holder and you buy into any company you surely look at these things?? not so??
29 Aug 2012, 11:11 am
@David-113: thanks for that…
now i ask myself why last week and on the weekend most on this blog and some newspapers took their cue from julius malema in rubbishing cyril?
29 Aug 2012, 11:11 am
@David-113: Flow-through principle Shanduka thus owns 9%? Is Shanduka 100% held by Cyril?
29 Aug 2012, 11:12 am
@Transformation-112: You’ll notice I presented at least 20 facts in three posts, all of which you’ve chosen to ignore. I can only lead you to the water.
@Dawn-111: Most of them were Lonmin miners, but there were many employees of neighbouring mines there too, as well as unemployed members of the local community to swell the numbers. It seems AMCU went on a recruitment drive.
29 Aug 2012, 11:12 am
@Puma-115: yeah saw it on twitter this morning from the Sun journo in the uk that posted it
29 Aug 2012, 11:13 am
@Dawn-111: @Taahirah-114: an injury to one is an injury to all…old school unionist slogans
ask cyril
29 Aug 2012, 11:14 am
Well for once our Cricket is making us more proud than our rugby. We are now number one in all forms of the game.
South Africa
World number one Test Cricket
World number one in 50 over cricket
World number one in 20/20 cricket
Now that is definitely someting us South Africans can be proud of.
When will we EVER be number one in Rugby again. Doubt it this year and if Meyer continues with his super dumb game plan we might never be number one. Reading all the Aussie Rugby sites and they think they will beat us home and away. Gosh, we must be looking absolutely awful even to them who are woeful themselves. We could surprise them in Perth playing a more attacking game. Meyer needs to select the right fh and sh also fb if we want to do that though.
29 Aug 2012, 11:17 am
@Transformation-112: Great post. I noticed that facts go missing when people are pushing Agendas esspecially on the Kings issue.
29 Aug 2012, 11:18 am
@David-113: DAVID TRUST ME I UNDERSTAND ALL THAT BECAUSE I WORKED FOR LOHNRO, this was before they became Lonmin,
I lived in a town named MooiNooi, about 40 Km’s out side Rustenburg
29 Aug 2012, 11:18 am
@Transformation-123:
Sigh.
You think I dont know that!
29 Aug 2012, 11:20 am
Damn!
No wonder the mine has such a legacy.
Look who worked for them!
29 Aug 2012, 11:20 am
@115 – Do you have a link to that rumour because how can elton & lambie have been unused subs recently; JJ engelbrecht, potties & flip, juandre get game time whenever they don’t start; HM assures the public that morne will reverse his poor form the more he plays. Now apparently he’s taking two greenhorns on tour, to take who’s place (on the bench I assume) or they are going for the experience. How will this go down with the non-bulls & the public
29 Aug 2012, 11:21 am
@sharks_lover-122: So they lose another captain. See Cook will probably be their captain.
Anyhow not too bothered about them. We riding high right now being number one in all forms of cricket. Loving it. For once it is Cricket that is making us proud and not our rugby.
29 Aug 2012, 11:21 am
@Taahirah-120:
There are 6 groups of shareholders, according to their corporate site, one of which is the Ramaphosa family trust. It doesn’t mention percentages.
29 Aug 2012, 11:24 am
@Puma-124: Plus we have 4 of the top 10 test batsmen (5 if you count KP), 3 of the top 10 test bowlers (including no 1 and 2), and 3 of the top 10 test all-rounders. Don’t think we’ve ever had a more golden era.
29 Aug 2012, 11:24 am
@sharks_lover-126:
I know MooiNoi from when I was doing business with Lonmin. Used to enjoy the drive there until arriving at that dust bowl.
29 Aug 2012, 11:24 am
@Puma-130: Yeah Pooms, very proud of our Boys, Amla is in another class, what a special talent
29 Aug 2012, 11:25 am
@viewer-129: Tank Lanning thinks they will be called up. Have no idea why either. Is one of our centres injured? Is that why we taking so long to announce our sqaud to tour oz and nz?
Criminal not using Lambie, as Mclook said on his blog. Damn shame when we needed to up our game and there we had him just wasting away on the bench.
29 Aug 2012, 11:25 am
@rossoneri-125: Rubbish, Rossi. I have given him nothing but facts on this issue, yet you fall for his two-line rhetoric. Just proves that people only hear what they want to hear.
29 Aug 2012, 11:26 am
@sharks_lover-134: Amla is magnificent. Making us really proud. What a awesome, awesome batsman. Must be the best in the world right now. Truely proud of him.
29 Aug 2012, 11:26 am
@David-131: Cyril, at best, thus is entitled to an insignificant minority share of the profits. His participation as a non-executive director is limited to attendance of and voting at quarterly board meetings. Why are we blaming him for this mess? Who are the executive directors? The majority shareholders?
29 Aug 2012, 11:27 am
In the words of Juluka… Hashimbonanga!
29 Aug 2012, 11:27 am
@David-133:
MooiNooi,
Well i was the Sports and golf club manager there in the late 80″s, best 9 hole course in the country,
They even play a tournament there for the golf sunshine winter tour, Lotsa huge farms in the area too
29 Aug 2012, 11:28 am
@katman-136: I was referring to your cheap shots on the Kings.
29 Aug 2012, 11:29 am
They should change the heading ‘ Lonmin miners chasing cops’ or something
WAT GAAN HIER AAN, HA?!! EK HET GESê HA?!!!
29 Aug 2012, 11:29 am
@katman-132: For sure. We in a absolute golden era right now in our cricket. So proud of our boys. Number one in all forms of the game and like you said plenty are best in the world as batsmen and bowlers. Really enjoying this cricket tour to England. Has been awesome for us.
29 Aug 2012, 11:30 am
@katman-136: HAve you seen this?? how to piss off a frog?? damn funny
youtube.com/watch?v=SeiJarwE99M&feature=player_embedded …
29 Aug 2012, 11:31 am
@Transformation-123:
i really dont care or know enough about this to get involved.
however, tac’s post on aurora is intersting transie, why no you comment on this?
its no different to the lonmin tragedy and in fact has been far worse for the workers / victims involved.
29 Aug 2012, 11:31 am
@Taahirah-138:
That’s the point I was originally making. He has a limited influence on compliance and regulatory issues but very little on management ones.
29 Aug 2012, 11:32 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeiJarwE99M&feature=player_embedded …
29 Aug 2012, 11:32 am
and thats my two cents.
i’m done.
29 Aug 2012, 11:34 am
@Puma-143:
The real hero in this is Kirsten. He’s now taken two teams to number one.
29 Aug 2012, 11:35 am
@rossoneri-141: Cheap shots? Give me a break. Read my post no 72. Filled with facts, once again. Just because these facts happen to expose a morally corrupt “rugby” organisation doesn’t automatically make them cheap shots.
Why don’t you rather single out the facts I’ve mentioned that you don’t agree with, instead of lumping them all into the baseless cheap shots basket? Because that’s just lazy and ineffective.
29 Aug 2012, 11:36 am
@katman-121: “20 facts” that lead you to equate what was happening at marikana to the Kings?
all i see is exploitation of rock drillers by both the corporation and opportunistic union “leaders” and that has no relevance to the kings…
the only link however tenuous i can think of is there are black people involved in all situations – 200 000 black players and panga-wielding miners on a koppie
29 Aug 2012, 11:38 am
@David-149: Gary sure has. But Alms has too. What a brilliant batsman he is. The best in the world right now.
Steyn number one and Vern number two in the world. Awesome.
Actually the whole team have contributed. Proud of all of them.
29 Aug 2012, 11:38 am
@Puma-152: Alms = Alma
29 Aug 2012, 11:42 am
@Puma-152: true but amla has been batting like this before Gary came along, Gary however is truely growing them as a team, that is very clear
29 Aug 2012, 11:43 am
@sharks_lover-147: ha ha.
29 Aug 2012, 11:43 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-145: you assume that i’m here to defend the zumas, the government or the ANC…
you are seriously misguided
29 Aug 2012, 11:44 am
the lions are solely responsible for the kak they have caused.
the kings are solely responsible for the kak they are about to cause.
sau is solely responsible for the kak they have caused and the kak they will cause.
keep them all nicely seperated.
29 Aug 2012, 11:46 am
@sharks_lover-154:
I just wonder whether de Villiers will continue as wickie or whether they’ll sacrifice Dumminy/Rudolph for a specialist one.
29 Aug 2012, 11:47 am
@Transformation-156:
that doesn’t make a lot of sense.
you should criticise and condemn both events as they both are bad / wrong.
29 Aug 2012, 11:50 am
@sharks_lover-154: Yeah that is what I was meaning there. Saying also it was Amla.
Actually we did start the climb in 2008 when we beat England then went on to beat Oz. Only we stagnated from there. Then Gary came and we already did have these great players. He has just guided us better.
Now for Aus! Bring it on…lol. Would love to again beat them after we have won a test series in England. Jeez it does sound familiar………..hahaha.
29 Aug 2012, 11:51 am
@Transformation-151: This business of pretending you don’t understand, while actually you are more than bright enough to get my post, is most unbecoming. Don’t do it again.
29 Aug 2012, 11:51 am
Flo back in the Bok mix.
29 Aug 2012, 11:51 am
where is the Springbok squad article? Goosen and Vermeulen have been added apparently
29 Aug 2012, 11:52 am
@David-158: I think they are working on him as a keeper, i dont think they will call up another Wicky,
But who knows,
29 Aug 2012, 11:54 am
@katman-72: there’s little “fact” in this post and a lot of emo talk, “epic movie trailer tones”? talk about playing to the gallery…
“When the lobbying was at its fiercest, we were told, in epic movie trailer tones, of the 200 000 black players waiting for their opportunities that had been cruelly denied them till now. But now that the money’s in the bank, those guys have been told to not give up their goat herding jobs just yet – Cheeky will be in contact in due course.”
where was it said that “200 000 black players” will run on the field in the FIRST game the Kings play?
where have they been told to “keep their goat-herding jobs” – more emo kak…?
we all know you’re a lions supporter but hey your union has even incensed louis luyt and have been “HAVING IT” for years – evidenced by fact that they haven’t paid their franchise partners since 2007!
talk about entitlement!
29 Aug 2012, 11:54 am
@Hop Hop Spinnekop-162: where you seeing this mate?
29 Aug 2012, 11:56 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-159: bring the facts to me on the aurora story and i’ll interogate it…
29 Aug 2012, 11:56 am
News just in:
Springbok Touring Squad – Austalasian leg of the Rugby Championship:
In alphabetical order:
Alberts, Willem; Bekker, Andries; Cilliers, Pat; Coetzee, Marcel; Daniel, Keegan; De Jongh, Juan; De Villiers, Jean (c); Du Plessis, Jannie; Engelbrecht, JJ; Etzebeth, Eben; Habana, Brian; Hougaard, Francois; James, Butch; Kirchner, Zane; Kruger, Jeandre; Kruger, Werner; Lambie, Pat; Mtawarira, Beast; Mvovu, Lwazi; Pienaar, Ruan; Potgieter, Jacques; Steggman, Deon; Steyn, Frans; Steyn, Morne; Strauss, Adriaan; Strauss, Josh; Van der Linde, CJ; Van der Merwe, Flip; Vermaak Jano;
Weppener, Willie
29 Aug 2012, 11:57 am
@Transformation-165: Oh, forgive me for presenting my facts with a little flair. Next time I’ll do two posts: one with a touch of linguistic vibrancy for the rest of the people and one in a powerpoint format for you.
They’re still facts, by the way. And you still don’t have an answer for them, except to accuse me of being the Big Bad Bwana for raising them.
29 Aug 2012, 12:00 pm
Josh Strauss, Stegmann, CJ, Jano, Wepener, Butch? Jeez, talk about ringing the changes.
Of all of those new names, only Strauss and Jano really add something new and positive.
29 Aug 2012, 12:02 pm
@grant10-166: The Twitter machine.
29 Aug 2012, 12:03 pm
@Finfan-168: Actually, this looks completely different to the squad just posted on the other thread. Where are Goosen, Vermeulen, Greyling etc?
29 Aug 2012, 12:04 pm
Didnt Butch retire from international rugby?
29 Aug 2012, 12:05 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-15: Lol you’re so emo
29 Aug 2012, 12:08 pm
@Finfan-168: where do you get butch & wepener?
29 Aug 2012, 12:09 pm
@Taahirah-173: The Springbok squad for the Australasian leg of the Rugby Championship is:
Name
Province
Position
Test Caps
Willem Alberts
The Sharks
Loose forward
13
Andries Bekker
DHL Western Province
Lock
26
Craig Burden
The Sharks
Hooker
0
Pat Cilliers
MTN Golden Lions
Prop
2
Marcell Coetzee
The Sharks
Loose forward
5
Juan de Jongh
DHL Western Province
Centre
10
Jean de Villiers (captain)
DHL Western Province
Centre
77
Jannie du Plessis
The Sharks
Prop
35
Eben Etzebeth
DHL Western Province
Lock
5
Johan Goosen
Toyota FS Cheetahs
Flyhalf
0
Dean Greyling
Vodacom Blue Bulls
Prop
2
Bryan Habana
DHL Western Province
Wing
79
Francois Hougaard
Vodacom Blue Bulls
Scrumhalf
20
Zane Kirchner
Vodacom Blue Bulls
Fullback
17
Juandré Kruger
Vodacom Blue Bulls
Lock
3
Pat Lambie
The Sharks
Fullback / Flyhalf
13
Tiaan Liebenberg
DHL Western Province
Hooker
1
Francois Louw
Bath, England
Loose forward
10
Tendai Mtawarira
The Sharks
Prop
37
Lwazi Mvovo
The Sharks
Wing
6
Ruan Pienaar
Ulster, N-Ireland
Scrumhalf
56
Jacques Potgieter
Vodacom Blue Bulls
Loose forward
3
Frans Steyn
The Sharks
Centre
51
Morné Steyn
Vodacom Blue Bulls
Flyhalf
39
Adriaan Strauss
Toyota FS Cheetahs
Hooker
14
Flip van der Merwe
Vodacom Blue Bulls
Lock
16
Jano Vermaak
Vodacom Blue Bulls
Scrumhalf
0
Duane Vermeulen
DHL Western Province
No 8
0
29 Aug 2012, 12:11 pm
Keegan dropped
cue incessant Guppy wailing
29 Aug 2012, 12:14 pm
@katman-169: “flair!” Try lies! Jeez louise!
29 Aug 2012, 12:17 pm
@rossoneri-178: So what DO you think about why Aurora saw no violence, as opposed to Marikana?
29 Aug 2012, 12:26 pm
@rossoneri-178: Once again, I beseech you, less general accusations and more specifics. Which bits were lies? Unless you can do this, your comments have as much value as a Malema address. Let’s do this like grown-ups.
29 Aug 2012, 12:26 pm
@rossoneri-178:
Are you not a bit harsh?
Why not just say something like : ‘intentional misrepresentation’
I think the key question is this: why live ammunition?
Who is the authority who gave that command and is above the constitution of this cowntry?
29 Aug 2012, 12:39 pm
@Sheriff-181: I would hazard a guess that after 7 days of escalating violence, and the general danger presented to police by an implacable & angry mob armed to the teeth with pangas, spears and knobkerries, the decision was made to up the level of force required.
29 Aug 2012, 12:59 pm
@Transformation-167:
interogate it…
@Atreides-174:
i am ashamed i stripped my moer.
stupid ****** lions executives.
29 Aug 2012, 13:14 pm
@sharks_lover-107:
My uncle told me some time ago:
Never talk about politics
religion
money
sexual oriantation/ pervertions
Great man
29 Aug 2012, 14:36 pm
somebody say something
I don’t want to be the last one commenting on this thread
29 Aug 2012, 15:43 pm
@Atlas-185: Fck you, you chicken
29 Aug 2012, 16:26 pm
@katman-169: @katman-169: if you want to call emo talk about 200 000 black running on the field for the Kings “facts” go ahead, don’t expect me to take you seriously though.
30 Aug 2012, 04:55 am
@Atlas-184:
My Uncle told me never get mixed up with the three W’s
1/ Women
2/ Whiskey
and Work.
30 Aug 2012, 14:43 pm
@Te Rangatira-188: Good man that! Pitty I did not have him around about 20 years ago!
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