Boks’ response must speak loudest
30 Aug 2012
Springbok captain Jean de Villiers said they had to be accountable for their poor showing in Mendoza and said that accountability must be exhibited through their forthcoming performances.
The Springboks produced their most woeful effort under coach Heyneke Meyer to date, stuttering to a 16-16 draw in the second Test of their Rugby Championship campaign last week.
They have subsequently taken lots of heat from the South African public and media and are under immense pressure to improve in the Tests that remain, their next assignment coming in Perth against Australia next Saturday.
De Villiers stressed the importance of identification and elimination of the errors they’ve made and called for a significant improvement.
‘We need to learn from our experiences, and we’re growing as a team, but you can’t keep making the same mistakes,’ De Villiers said at Orlando Stadium in Soweto on Thursday.
‘By Saturday next week we will know if we’ve stepped up or not. We’re building as a team. Our discipline needs to improve, our execution, and our set-phases have taken a step backward. We maybe need to improve 40 percent but the margins are very small in Test rugby.’
De Villiers added time had healed some of the wounds of that result and allowed them to gain a measure of perspective on it. He also refused to completely accept that their attacking play, which was a point of great criticism for its sterility, was fundamentally flawed.
‘We’ve put that game behind us. Looking at the game again I feel better about it,’ he said. ‘There were actually a lot of positives from the game. We believe we were a better team than how we played on Saturday. Even though there has been a lot of criticism of our attacking play, I thought that was actually quite good. The attack was quite good at times.’
Meyer’s game plan is widely perceived to be conservative and has been the central focus of his detractors’ vitriol. He needs it to come together against the Wallabies or face deepening and more scathing criticism thereof. While De Villiers accepted that they deserved to be questioned for their execution of that game plan, he, however, gave it the vote of confidence on behalf of the squad.
‘It’s a new coach trying to get a message and game plan across to the team,’ he said. ‘We will all stand up for what we believe in. We believe in the coach and what we’re doing is right.’
297 Comments
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30 Aug 2012, 18:51 pm
Go restore some faith Jean. This team is capable.
30 Aug 2012, 18:57 pm
Boks and Wobs coming off poor results, should be quite a firefight.
30 Aug 2012, 19:03 pm
Never commented here but just felt the need…. A lot of the boks problems stem from the fact they want to go ground when tackled… there are many tackles where the ball carrier just seems to collapse on first contact… we need to try and stay on our feet a bit longer and either offload or go to ground when support players are arriving !
30 Aug 2012, 19:08 pm
The spin before fixtures is so predictable.
It is almost as if there is a standard template for addressing the media if the team is doing well, and one for when the team is doing poorly.
Seriously, did anyone learn anything new from this article? And can’t our journalists do more technical analysis?
30 Aug 2012, 19:10 pm
Numbers say the Boks are our bunnies
BY: WAYNE SMITH From: The Australian August 31, 2012 12:00AM
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HEAD-TO-HEAD, the statistics are ugly in the extreme for Robbie Deans and the Wallabies, but there is one battle in which they are beating the All Blacks: in their showdowns with South Africa.
In contrast to their sad record of just three wins from 17 Bledisloe Tests against New Zealand during the Deans era, the Wallabies have played the Springboks 12 times since 2008 for eight wins. During the same period, the All Blacks have won only six of 11 Tests against the South Africans.
It’s a marginal advantage at best that the Australians enjoy but in the current climate, with Deans battling to save his job and the Wallabies battling to maintain faith with the Australian rugby public, any advantage is to be welcomed and savoured.
Indeed, if the Wallabies were to win their next Rugby Championship Test, against the Boks in Perth tomorrow week, they will stretch their winning sequence against South Africa to five matches, bettering by one the record they currently share with the 1999-2000 Australian side.
Aside from injured winger Drew Mitchell, whose season ended at Eden Park last Saturday when he re-injured the ankle that he spent most of last year rehabilitating, the Wallabies will field much the same injury-depleted team they did at Eden Park. There will be at least one other absentee, however, with hard-working Queensland backrower Jake Schatz being sent off for scans on a shoulder injury.
If a like-for-like replacement is made for Mitchell, Reds winger Dom Shipperley or Western Force flyer Nick Cummins could be brought into the extended training squad or Deans could decide to rotate Adam Ashley-Cooper back to the flank for Kurtley Beale to start at fullback.
The Wallabies have calculated that more than 20 players who have worn the gold jersey over the past 18 months currently are injured or otherwise not available, but Deans won’t elicit any sympathy from Springboks counterpart Heyneke Meyer.
In recent weeks, the Springboks have lost Bismarck du Plessis, the world’s best hooker, to injury, along with Chiliboy Ralepelle, Pierre Spies, JP Pietersen and speedster Bjorn Basson. On top of that, they have some of the most recognisable names in South African rugby — Schalk Burger, Juan Smith, Gurthro Steenkamp, Heinrich Brussow and Ryan Kankowski — on the long-term unavailable list.
It’s not quite the Wallabies’ casualty list but it comes close.
Certainly, the heavy toll the Australians have taken does give rise to thoughts that it might have to follow New Zealand’s lead in resting key players during the Super Rugby season. Acting captain Will Genia, for one, is looking like a player in need of down time.
Thankfully, the Australian Rugby Union doesn’t have the power to order the Super Rugby franchises to stand down players, and if it does want to pursue this line, it might need to give serious thought to freeing up current restrictions on how many foreign players the teams can recruit.
That would trigger old fears of foreign players blocking the career paths of young Australians but until the ARU establishes a third-tier competition to replace the Australian Rugby Championship it scrapped in 2008, it is difficult to see how the Australian franchises could cope with Test stars being rested without bringing in players from overseas.
Meanwhile, the Rugby Union Players’ Association will be hoping for a positive response from today’s ARU board meeting to its call earlier this week for an independent review of the ARU’s high-performance program.
30 Aug 2012, 19:38 pm
‘Even though there has been a lot of criticism of our attacking play, I thought that was actually quite good. The attack was quite good at times.’
EH?????
30 Aug 2012, 20:03 pm
Yoh Ryan.
I prefer quality than quantity when it comes to articles published on this site.
30 Aug 2012, 20:03 pm
@PissAnt-1: Unfortunately I don’t think it is and that’s the biggest problem here. Not the coach, not the game plan, not that Lambie or Elton or Goosen aren’t at fly-half. It’s just simply that the players we have at the moment are, in general, not that good. I think we’re all expecting too much from a bunch of guys who just aren’t at the level to be wearing a Bok jersey. Finish and klaar.
30 Aug 2012, 20:22 pm
All the women is Aus are “grak puddings”. Our boys were just distract by the gorgeus Latinas is Argie. Too much fun the night before
Go Bokke!!! Meide bly buite.
30 Aug 2012, 20:47 pm
Skop en jaag. Kyknoord skopvoort. Wallabies licking their lips for plenty ball possesion. Eish
30 Aug 2012, 21:00 pm
JDV what have been smoking, there was not one piece of attacking play that was impressive!
At least admit it, otherwise your credibility is going to go down the pipes along with Meyers!
30 Aug 2012, 21:08 pm
I’ve just watched the game again on youtube, and often, devoid of emotion and numerous beers, you see quite a different game the second time round, than you did “live”. Just a few things:
Positives:
1: Argentina was the better team, but apart from their try, they hardly entered our 22, let alone threatened our line.
2: Etsebeth was immense, Only the second time do you appreciate how much donkeywork he does.
3: Fransie is the only SA back with a bit of AB like swagger, he’s indispensible
4: Bekker took a lot of flak, and he missed two bad tackles, but otherwise was pretty good, certainly better than his replacement Flip.
Negatives:
1: I know Potgieter’s stats aren’t to bad, but they don’t tell the story of the efficacy, or lack thereof, of “tackles made” or “meteres gained”. Lord, he was awfull, it’s a miracle if he carries the ball into contact and it happens to be retained, and his tackles put zero pressure on oppostion ball. He wont get close to another squad in this comp, and his retention in the bok squad is nothing less than baffling
2: Strauss isn’t bad, but of all the injured players, Bissie is the biggest loss
3: M steyn is predictable beyond expression. He has a massive “backlift”, an exaggerated swingof the arms when passing, a baby can tell what he’s going to do from the moment he gets the ball. It has nothing to do with the speed of his pass, just the telegraphed nature thereof. And he allways take one sideways step before passing, aka R Januarie. If he kicks less than 85percent, there can no longer be case for his inclusion.
4: No sa forward has the abillity to off-load, ever. Take contact, go to ground, thats the mantra.
5: Ruan Pienaar is not the answer at 9, embarassingly bumped of a tackle, slow service. The game plan needs to change, not the scrummie
6: M Coetzee was dreadfull, it can happen with a young player, but he’s part of a woefully unbalanced backrow, and not a fetcher. Yes, we need a fetcher.
7: We can’t create play, our game depends on others making mistakes, and we feeding of it. Faced with an opponent doing the same, we’re stuffed, beaten at our own game.
8. Jannie and Beast cruising on auto-pilot
30 Aug 2012, 21:19 pm
Jean must think we are blind and stupid.
30 Aug 2012, 21:34 pm
“Even though there has been a lot of criticism of our attacking play, I thought that was actually quite good.”
WTF!!!!!
Shouldnt we compare our attacking play with the best attacking team in the world? Isnt that how you determine if your attacking play is any good ?! The AB’s are miles ahead !
Wake up Jean.
30 Aug 2012, 21:36 pm
@Stiff-arm-12:
The first PROPER full scale expose on EXACTLY what went wrong
and all these twats want Pienaar to start at 9
when Hougaard is head and shoulders a thousand light years ahead of him in every aspect of every part of his game…
get shot of these players
1. Strauss out or to bench – Fourie in
2. Cilliers to start – JdP off bench
3. Etzebeth should go to 5 get a proper hard man in at 4 like Elstadt or perhaps Mostert for eg. even Deysel or Alberts with Vermeulen now in the loosie mix, failing which get Bekker up to scratch as the ‘athletic’ lock partner.
4. Balance the back row – Coetsee either to 8 though preferably to bench – Vermeulen to start at 8 and Potgieter out the 22 though at best off bench, Louw to start at 6, Alberts 7
5. Hougaard to play 80 minutes at 9 .. never to switch to wing unless under emergency.
6. New 10 altogether – drop Morne Steyn – Jantjies or Goosen to start – second best option Lambie
7. Centers fine as you were. JdJ off bench
Unless play JdJ at 13 and play captain JdV at 14
8. Habana – Mvovo much of a muchness both wings are not up to 100% scratch
9. Fullback HAS to change. – Kirchner got to go – new FB required – A. Coetsee ideal but worst case scenario Lambie or Frans Steyn to 15.
30 Aug 2012, 21:39 pm
@tornado 3
That is so spot on really man!!! Why must the boks ballcarier always just fall to the ground. Stay on ur feet till support arrive, if u go to ground opposition can win the turn over. I don’t know if they not strong enough or what but they just flop to the ground like a tranquliza dart just hit them!!!
30 Aug 2012, 21:44 pm
@Stiff-arm-12: I agree with pretty much all of this… I have to say, in addition to Frans Steyn being undroppable, I do think Francois Hougaard has X factor. He is developing as a scrumhalf and in a year or 2, he could be world class in that position. If we play him at wing, his career will be short-lived.
A few more points:
Ricardo Laubscher is an absolutely useless backline coach. We have no creativity or penetration. Its awful to watch.
Our forwards are still young and need to develop more grizzle and toughen up. Hopefully when our injury crisis is over, we’ll get some much needed experience back in our pack.
Completely agree about Ruan Pienaar. He delivers slow ball from the breakdown and has often been a liability for the Boks. Good kicking game, but his service is far too slow and that can be lethal.
30 Aug 2012, 21:48 pm
@fitz1ella-15: Glad there are more people out there who recognise that Francois Hougaard is way better than Ruan Pienaar. I was starting to think I was the only one… Francois Hougaard is potentially world class. Ruan Pienaar is a liability.
30 Aug 2012, 21:58 pm
@Kaizan-18: Pienaar should have stuck to 10 .. he’s a hybrid half a fly – half half a scrum half – master of neither.. He would have been a pretty good fly half except the idiots tried to make a 100% place kicker out of him.. that what screwed his head in .. they should have kept on with Pienaar at 10 in 2009 instead they went kick chase apeshit after the Bils and 3N of 2009 with M. Steyn pulling the trigger and we been going in a steady downhill trajectory spiral ever since.
30 Aug 2012, 23:08 pm
I think heineke did himself no good to pick payers he think would fit his gameplan and not know that they would… Thinking and knowing is very different in my opinion ofcourse ….
If you look at the backline- the kick and chase game fit the likes of jp pietersen,bjorn basson,akona ndugane and bryan habana.
The scrumhalf play fit fourie du preez alone( you may argue if you like) and we all know that du preez will make morne look much better than what he is now.
Forwards- pierre spies,schalk burger and heinrich brussow is the loos trio with alberts being a supersub… Come on guys you how destructive and balancing they can be..
And the tight5… Guthro,bissy,jannie,eben and juandre is our best bet at the moment… They will scrum hit the rucks and get plenty go forward ball… So to be honest heineke the players to fit your gameplan is
15- fsteyn
14-jp pietersen
13-b habana
12-j de villiers
11-b bassson
10-m steyn
09-f du preez
08-p spies
07-s burger (c)
06-h brussow
05-j kruger
04-e etzebeth
03-j du plessis
02-b du plessis
01-g steenkamp
Supersubs
16-c ralepelle
17-b mtawarira
18-w alberts
19-m coetzee
20-f hougaard
21-p lambie
22-g aplon
31 Aug 2012, 01:09 am
@fitz1ella-15: with respect skoppie, you’re picking players for your gameplan, Meyer’s gameplan is likely very different to yours, his all about field position and kicking for territory.
31 Aug 2012, 01:41 am
@xtremebull-20:
I see your train of thought. It makes sense. But Bjorn Basson is hondk@k. You have to be on drugs to believe he is internasennal class.
31 Aug 2012, 02:11 am
How k@k can he be if he never got a chance mate? And isn’t he at most the best chaser under the high ball presently? All in all he wouldve starter against the argies if injuries didn’t take its toll in him in the absence of jp? I’m just saying that with the game the coach want to play he need to pick the right players for it and I do believe he and jp is the best suited with that gameplan and habana would be a bigger tread in midfield as he could counter the kick off aswell from midfield chase
31 Aug 2012, 02:56 am
Soda not far from the truth.
Although the backline are “experienced” I feel this is like a B -Team. So we are developing depth and thats it. I have no expectations this year, just hope we dont loose to the weaker teams up north.
I once bowed to JDV and Habanana but they dont really have the oomf they once had. Habanana should be dropped and shipped off to 7s for a yr. Jean cant seem to find any gaps, runs too straight. He could learn from 7′s too. I feel Frans should bugger of North for a year again and wait for the team to develop and the injured return. He does not appear happy either…
What we lack is a good coaching staff. The backline coach appears brutal, JDV may mention their attack was great but …hey… really, what about all those watching it, who is he trying to fool, himself?
What is really happening , that is, what we are seeing now that the “once in a life time” players have left, the void is soo great we all expect what we got used to, to be delivered now. But it aint going to happen. Its going to take loads to fill those guys shoes
31 Aug 2012, 03:42 am
@fitz1ella-15: You seem obsessed with Deon Fourie, but he is awful in the scrums and lineouts and only just makes up for his lack of ruck cleaning by getting over the opposition ball quite a bit. Yes, he’s a good fetcher, but that’s about it.
31 Aug 2012, 05:04 am
@xtremebull-23:
Didn’t mean to offend. I appresiate your bigger picture. But B Basson is one dimensional in test rugby. High ball chase – that is all. Lightweight defender, kicker, out of hand offloads etc. Super Rugby max. Put Piieer Spies on the wing, then there is nag for the AB’s. Butt the tiewe at the top still can’t handle how they talked him out of a legassy. Blue Bull pofkoppe suiping too much mampoer.
31 Aug 2012, 05:06 am
@ArtVandelay-25:
Deon Fourie is a complete footballer. Hi is no Bissy, but he is equal in instinct, The rest ar lumps of led. “Lalapype” as we say in the Cape Flats. If you aren’t creative – you have no place in the Bokke. Weg is jy!
31 Aug 2012, 06:59 am
i hate to say i told you so about pienaar
but
i did…
31 Aug 2012, 07:02 am
@ArtVandelay-25:
dont forget about his brain farts.
31 Aug 2012, 07:41 am
It has been a while since I posted, when I read about HM appointment I relaxed … only to find myself agreeing with other posters now that he is stuck in the past and almost afraid to fail.
First up there are some difficult injuries to deal with, Biz, Shalk and Brussow are difficult people to replace especially when you want to play the kick chase and punching the ball up. These players will come back ..although FdP and JFourie who are out and and will probably never return to the previous standards.
There are some great prospects coming up for the Boks – Goosen, Taute in the backline and Eben Oosteheizen and Vermulen in the forwards. They will need a year of Bok duty to hit their straps ..
Will we have the patience meanwhile ?
The game plan though is a total mess, I dont think you can ONLY play kick chase in todays game. We need clean ball from the forwards which is not happening due to protection …and then some play makers at 9 and 10. .. Hougaard is a special talent and like FdP maybe the game plan needs to be worked around him for parts of the game. Pienaar frankly should go back to 10 and replace Morne while we wait on Goosen. There are better 9s in SA and younger ..
31 Aug 2012, 07:45 am
With the current players available I would select the following squad assuming the game plan changes oh so slightly:
Beast
Straus
Jannie
Etsebeth
Kruger
Flouw
Alberts
Coetzee
Hougard
Lambie
Habana
F Steyn
JDV (there is no other option for captain)
Mvovo
Kirchner (no other choice/ Super Rugby options have no test experience, maybe if Taute was fit)
Cilliers
Tiaan
Bekker
Vermeulen
Pienaar (the old Pienaar was back this past Saturday with that poor tackle effort, wake up!)
Goosen
JDJ
I would have dropped Potgieter and brought in Stander/ Deysel.
31 Aug 2012, 07:53 am
I think the biggest issue for the boks is the limited practical understanding and teamwork around the ruck area. The ABs are kings in this regard, this stems from the Crusaders playing style. The first guy at the ruck tries to steal the ball, if he is too late then he waits for the second player to arrive, the second player quickly sees if the counter ruck is on, if it is then he taps the first player and they rock and roll. Turnover ball, and give it to their talented backs.
We almost never counter ruck, if wwe do it is disjointed and body positions are too high or we come from the side, or we fail to secure the ball once we are over it.
Key players for the blacks in this regard are Whitlock, Read and of course McCaw.
Our sepport runners need to clear the ruck hard and low, make the opposition feel it when they try and steal our ball, don’t ask, kill the ********. Bakkies was great at this, he would dislocate your bloody shoulder if you tried to steal our ball.
I truly believe there would have been a different result in the 2011 QF if Bakkies was there.
31 Aug 2012, 08:24 am
@goodstuff-32: Definately the importance of a good cleaner is essential – Bakkies was king
31 Aug 2012, 08:44 am
@goodstuff-31:
gurthro, bakkies, fouche.
drop one of the looseheads, drop bekker and rather fouche than goosen.
@goodstuff-32:
@stew-33:
i dont care for the crusaders or what they do, but we certainly could do with an old school 4 lock.
31 Aug 2012, 08:47 am
i see the crusaders are no longer ‘the’ ream to play for if you harbour dreams of winning titles. or is he just not that good.
‘All Blacks prop Ben Franks has asked for a release from the Crusaders and coach Todd Blackadder says he understands why the player feels he has to leave.’
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10830577
31 Aug 2012, 08:55 am
The team that should be playing right now…
1. Beast
2. Strauss
3. Jannie
4. Bakkies
5. Danie Rossouw
6. Marcel
7. Willem Alberts
8. Duane Vermeulen
9. Charl (Sharks)
10. Johan Goosen
11. JP Pietersen
12. Jean
13. Habana
14. Bjorn Basson
15. Francois Steyn
31 Aug 2012, 09:06 am
@goodstuff-32: this is an area where pdv was bitterly criticised for in 2008 until he got Plumtree to work with the forwards as Gary Gold seemed to be clueless. it seems with Meyer we have regressed and i don’t know if van Graan knows what is cooking.
Meyer himself is a forwards coach, he should be correcting the ruck technique!
this pining for Bakkies won’t take us anywhere, the ABs for instance are whining for Thorne, they’ve got Mick Byrne drilling Romano and Retallick and getting them up to snuff instead…different mindsets i guess
31 Aug 2012, 09:09 am
With Bakkies, Danie, Duane and Willem breakdown problems solved. One of the reasons the Sharks have scored such great tries in the super15 is because of Charl’s quick ball to the fly half, he is the best quick ball distributor atm and Morne’s time is over, let Johan take the place he deserves. You never too young or old when you in form. And Brian has lost his spark at wing, he will never be the Habana that he once was, he is often out of position in defense on the wing and has caused many a try because of it. Yet his defense is great when his there. So to make use of his great defense he needs to be playing 13, next to Jean. And even though Francois is great he is best suited at full back.
31 Aug 2012, 09:10 am
@MADaboutrugby-36: charl mcleod?
31 Aug 2012, 09:14 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-35: he wants to be starting games and feels he has better chances of this elsewhere..
and yes please, bring back bakkies, he can pick on A.Smith and spend more time in the bin..
imagine your team being a man down AND not competing at the breakdown…
you fouche you
31 Aug 2012, 09:16 am
@Transformation-39:
i know
9. Charl (Sharks)
should read
9. Charl (Snaaks)
31 Aug 2012, 09:21 am
Some better selections but elstadt and fourie and gurthro would have given thus pack a good chance. I think they going to get exposed for mediocrities at 2, 3, 4, and openside. Best best is too shuffle the team around with alberts to 4 and hope vermeulen can play half a game.
1. Beast 2. ? 3. Cilliers 4. Alberts 5. Etsebeth 6. Louw 7. Vermeulen 8. Coetzee
too little game time for louw and vermeulen but who knows some players can do it – besides they quantum leap above potgieter – dunno why Daniel was sent back – I’d have him over potgieter and coetsee.
31 Aug 2012, 09:23 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-41: behind pienaar i think meyer is looking at piet van zyl.
31 Aug 2012, 09:27 am
Where is Cardinelli? He has the lowest error to article ratio here….
31 Aug 2012, 09:33 am
Team selections will be very important for the next game. Hougaard needs to go, Pienaar in. Flo needs to play. So back three will hopefully be Flo, Alberts, Vermeulen.
And if Steyn plays k#k he needs to be subbed for a change!I doubt that Goosen will play, so it will have to be Lambie. Unfair really because he hasnt had much game time, nor has Goosen for that matter. Jantjies would have been a better backup…
Same thing for Bekker, but Flip should fall out of the 22 and make way for Kruger.
Better balance should make a difference. Hopefully the game plan will be adapted too…
Imo
31 Aug 2012, 09:33 am
I’m bored.
31 Aug 2012, 09:34 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-41:
lol
31 Aug 2012, 09:36 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-41: Just as snaaks is your call for fouche, 1 good game and he must replace Mornr , Lambie, Jantes, Goosen???,
So his call is funny and yours is not??
yeah right
And no i also dont think Mcleod should be there, not that he is not good enough, he sure is, but he blows hot and cold
31 Aug 2012, 09:41 am
@sharks_lover-48:
Yeah and he’s pretty old too, he’s 29… Not exactly a option for the future…
31 Aug 2012, 09:43 am
Charl Mcplod?
Fuckkme but no.
Even the sharks fans think he is kak.
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