Jake hammers Heyneke
30 Aug 2012
Jake White says Heyneke Meyer’s game plan for the Springboks is not a winning one.
The Brumbies mentor was speaking at a fundraiser at Emperors Palace in Kempton Park, according to Die Burger.
‘Heyneke’s coaching style is not a style that will help the Boks to win,’ said White. ‘If you can’t score at least four tries against Argentina, then there is a big problem.’
White said Meyer’s long stint with the Bulls had inevitably influenced his approach at Test level.
‘Heyneke was always going to get criticism because of his background with the Bulls. He was chosen as [Bok] coach because of the success he achieved as Bulls coach and it will naturally play a role in the way he coaches the Boks.’
White said that the more pressure Meyer was put under, the more he would revert to what worked for him at the Bulls.
‘If, for example, he must choose between Gio Aplon and Zane Kirchner, he will choose Kirchner every time,’ he said.
Meanwhile, former Bok captain Bob Skinstad reportedly described Meyer as a ‘dictator’, adding that ‘you can see during the match how he has told the players exactly what to do. They must learn to adapt.’
However, Skinstad later tweeted that he had not used the word ‘dictator’.
832 Comments
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30 Aug 2012, 15:22 pm
@nama1-548: Very nervous!
30 Aug 2012, 15:23 pm
@Heavens Game-529: this has nothing to do with you being a Rhodesian refugee “When-we” who ran to Natal with his tail between the legs when Mugabe’s Chimurenga came seething.
stick to the “facts” the Baby Boks didn’t lose to England BECAUSE goosen got outplayed by Ford!
i could come out and say we lost because Paul Jordaan was raped by Christian Wade and should not be considered for Bok honours based on the JWC game!
you’re talking kak as always, blaaadyshit “When-we”
30 Aug 2012, 15:23 pm
@lieflingblou-540: I agree that a kicking game doesn’t have to be controlled by a 9 but when you have a 9 who is not a natural box-kicker it puts unnecessary pressure on the 10.
Within the context of Meyer’s gameplan, imo it makes more sense for Pienaar to start at 9.
It seems like Meyer wants Hougaard to develop into the next FDP but they are two very different types of player.
30 Aug 2012, 15:24 pm
@grant10-530: More than Morne’s form and ability, there’s a serious lack of quality backline coaches. The even bigger obstacle is the prevailing mindset of what Bok rugby should be about. Instill the correct playing mindset at senior school level and this will filter into senior rugby.
Another problem is the boxing of players into certain positions, especially at junior level, where a tall player automatically is told to be a lock, a bigger boy, a prop, the best kicker, the flyhalf, the smallest, the scrummie, and the fastest the wing. Children should learn the proper concept of rugby and this can only be achieved if they are exposed to all facets.
30 Aug 2012, 15:26 pm
@nama1-526: No… And I tell you its the first sign of Bok Coach insanity… I just hope that this is just a rare blip and that King Heyneke aint succumbing so early in his tenure… Then the Boks are absolutely farked up beyond repair under this regime….
Strues Bob, if the Fat SpermWhale runs on at 8 next week against the Wobblies and Goosen at 10 then we well and truly FUBAR.
30 Aug 2012, 15:26 pm
@goodstuff-533: I’m not so sure of that, I think its the media and publics most obvious and easiest attack on him. Think about it if he was a provincialist why did he not also pick Kruger above the obviously out of form Bekker?
Kruger has been the top performing 5 lock in the country and the S15 this season. he has an immense work rate. managed to make Aviva premiership season 2 years in a row when he was in the UK playing for Northampton. Also made S15 man of the match twice this season very fist S15 of the season as well as his forst S15 game of his career. As well as S15 team of the week on a whole number of occasions (from the NZ and AUs press as well as the SA press). Now what has Bekker done this season except for except positive cape press ensuring him of his bok place now that Matfield has retired. (If you ask me the Cape media is a bunch of provincialists). Always pushing province **** all over the place.
If the Ausies, Kiwis and Northerners rate Kruger so much then why is he second to old man Bekker. Pls tell me why?
30 Aug 2012, 15:27 pm
@Transformation-509: Judging from your commentary, that performance must have been as Jantjies was for the Lions playing away in Canberra vs Brumbies in 2011… also attacking the game line, stepping and offloading aka SBW… Lions won for the first time in Australia against the Brumbies in that game…
Like I said mfowethu, Goosen IS that good… but what I don’t get is one player being given all the accolades while another player, who is currently playing very well and works just as hard, is not even given the time and place…
In PE, Morne had a terrible day with the boot… missing easy kicks which he normally could have kicked with his eyes closed… on the bench was Jantjies who, in his last 3 games just before the S15 break, had a 100% kicking record, but he was never brought in… mind boggling I tell ya..
30 Aug 2012, 15:28 pm
@Big Hit-553: aaron smith is not a natural box-kicker, you think carter is under unnecessary strain?
30 Aug 2012, 15:29 pm
@goodstuff-541: I think he should get Carlos Spencer involved with coaching the Boks backs. He did wonders for the Lions as well as for Jantjies. Plus there is no better way than f#cking the Kiwis over than by employing an ex Kiwi who was in fact a master at the ABs running game.
30 Aug 2012, 15:31 pm
@theOracle-557: i agree, do you recall the same clamour from Bok fans that Jantjies was benched for the full 80 as there is now that Lambie is apparently “growing trees in his backside”?
30 Aug 2012, 15:31 pm
@Transformation-558: NZ don’t play a kicking game whereas Meyer’s gameplan is reliant upon it.
30 Aug 2012, 15:32 pm
@Transformation-552: Hehehe… Umtwana, now I know that I really pissed you off
When you gobbling like a blowfish grasping and trying too hard to find the words to say because you looking more and more foolish with every post…. Bob’s your uncle and out pops “Rhodesian”…
Next its maybe “agent”…
or how about cry “racist”…?
Like every good little ZANU fanboy does….
Eish, its to easy to categorise and generalise your kind, ne…
ntc ntc ntc ntc tl tl tl tl
30 Aug 2012, 15:33 pm
@Heavens Game-544: The great HG is a chop! The try was as a result of a turnover (illiegal one) on our line after a lineout where the Ozzie lock runs over Smit and M Steyn you idiot, check your facts! Yes the pass was forward (but some would debate that).
30 Aug 2012, 15:34 pm
@Big Hit-538:
I hope he doesn’t start them BH.
The bad thing about him not starting them, while having them for two weeks in the squad before going overseas for another two weeks however, is that he has now denied them the opportunity to play at least 4 CC matches in order for them to get match fit.
How is he going to gauge now if they are ready for a test? Their performances in practises?
30 Aug 2012, 15:35 pm
@Heavens Game-547: And then who’s your 10?
Steyn?
I’m sorry he doesn’t deserve it – he deserves to veel the bench. Till he regains the ability to win matches and direct a backline.
Goosen?
You want him ruined like Gaffie was ruined?
Here’s the current squad incase you don’t know whats available in Perth:
Zane Kirchner, Pat Lambie, Bryan Habana, Lwazi Mvovo, Jean de Villiers, Francois Steyn, Juan de Jongh, Morne Steyn, Johan Goosen, Ruan Pienaar, Francois Hougaard, Jano Vermaak, Duane Vermeulen, Willem Alberts, Marcell Coetzee, Francois Louw, Jacques Potgieter, Juandre Kruger, Eben Etzebeth, Flip van der Merwe, Andries Bekker, Pat Cilliers, Tendai Mtawarira, Jannie du Plessis, Dean Greyling, Adriaan Strauss, Tiaan Liebenberg, Craig Burden
Now you care to answer the 10/15 debate again.
30 Aug 2012, 15:36 pm
@lieflingblou-556: Your argument is soundproof, I have to agree. I did forget about that selection, maybe he went out of favour after the England draw?
I too rate Kruger above Bekker, much more calm about him, Bekker gets crazy if things go wrong.
30 Aug 2012, 15:37 pm
@nama1-564: it does seem very amateur, maybe he’ll give them game time off the bench to try to get them right.
Having unnecessarily whisked them away from CC duty it is probably the most prudent course of action open to him.
30 Aug 2012, 15:37 pm
@nama1-542: Its terrible this season it was for the bulls as much as it is for the boks. but I dont think its because he has lost his form I think its because he is being forced into a mode of playing that doesn’t suite his natural talents.
30 Aug 2012, 15:41 pm
So what about the following scenario.
HM will select the same back line that started against the Argies with Pienaar, Lambie and JdJ on the bench.
After 60 minutes:
Pienaar comes on as SH, Hougaard moves to the right wing, Habana moves over to the left wing, Mvovo leaves the field.
JdJ comes on as outside centre, JdV moves to inside centre, Fransie moves to FB, Kirchner leaves the field.
Lambie collects more splinters because HM want Morne to get his confidence back.
30 Aug 2012, 15:43 pm
@Big Hit-553: You’re right and given the game plan it makes more sense to start Pienaar. But if Pienaar F#cks out as he has done before do you take him off and bring Hougaard on at 9?
Or do you start Hougaard, who even on a day with a terrible kicking game still harbors the ability to make a difference and win a game through individual. And move him to the wing when the kicks are sopur and bring on Pienaar?
See i am also caught up here, but if you ask me on a bad day Hougaard still has more too offer than Pienaar if he also has a bad day.
So I think I will start Hougaard and if the kicks don’t work bring Pienaar on for Mvovo rather early and put Hougaard on the wing.
30 Aug 2012, 15:46 pm
@lieflingblou-565: Chap… Dont get cheeky with me… I already posted a Bok team earlier on in the thread… You want to know what I got as my ideal team then go look there… I also have posted quite a few comments on Goosen and why he should not be Bok 10….
Now, I was courteous enough to reply to your post begging for comments about your team… I also thought my comment was also quite kind and reasonable especially considering the generally scatty farken reasoning behind more than a few of your selections….
It is obvious that you do not have the courtesy or maybe even the ability to follow this thread properly and realise what other individuals may have commented about already….
So… in very, very simple terms… Goebaai.
30 Aug 2012, 15:49 pm
@nama1-569: Sheezus Nama… You definitely now on the Richtersveld papsak…
Farken mad…
And Im outtahere for now.
30 Aug 2012, 15:50 pm
@lieflingblou-568:
What is the name of that centre again? The one who left the Bulls and signed with the Cheetahs for next year because he was “forced into a mode of playing that doesn’t suite his natural talents” or style?
Yet, Hougie has signed an extension of his contract for another two years, I think.
Why stay in a set up that does not suit your playing style? Is it to ensure Bok selection?
30 Aug 2012, 15:51 pm
I think us South Africans should get the Gaffie chip off our shoulder.
The Gaffies are the exception, not the rule.
Modern players play their best international rugby when they are new to the scene and when their bodies have been spared years of bumps and bruises.
Look no further than Schalk Burger – IRB player in 2004, aged 21, in first full season of international rugby.
30 Aug 2012, 15:53 pm
@Big Hit-561: really?
why do the stats tell us differently?
new zealand have kicked the ball more than the boks in the past 2 year, FACT…
30 Aug 2012, 15:53 pm
Nama Smith is back for the first Argie test, he is a superb player the Ab backline will convert more with him there.
30 Aug 2012, 15:54 pm
@Heavens Game-571: there is no cheek intended.
And if i have scatty farken reasoning pls highlight that to me, in regards to the current squad. This is after all a forum where we can debate openly or not? And yes I did indeed ask for comments on my selection openly therefore I am ready to receive the commentary so pls give it to me.
And just to make this clear the thread is quite long by now and yes I have read almost every single post there is too such an extent I am hardly working today. So pls because its so long point out the areas you are referring to. And read my post well again I’m not attacking you I am merely asking who else would you play at 10/15 given the current squad which has been confirmed and that will be traveling to Perth on Saturday.
Thats the question.
30 Aug 2012, 15:54 pm
@Heavens Game-572:
Anything is possible with Herr Heyneke at the helm, it seems.
30 Aug 2012, 15:55 pm
Our problem is not with 9,10 and 15…. It is with our teddy bear tight 5 being slapped around!!!!!!!!!!! no back line player or loose forward will make any difference to the result!!!
30 Aug 2012, 15:55 pm
@Heavens Game-562: thank you, now i know i’ve got you as you’re no longer spouting kak about goosen, bwahla
“i could come out and say we lost because Paul Jordaan was raped by Christian Wade and should not be considered for Bok honours based on the JWC game! ”
“christian cullen of loosies” dropped, ag shampies
30 Aug 2012, 15:56 pm
@nama1-573: Not sure, well i hope not.
Ludeke however as a coach has proved to be more expansive than Meyer, my guess is just that Ludeke after loosing so many key players last year opted for a more conservative game plan this season.
30 Aug 2012, 15:58 pm
@Heavens Game-572:
Goebaai
30 Aug 2012, 15:58 pm
@NZINCHINA-576:
Thanks.
That’s great news for you guys then. Not so good news for us who play you a week later, I guess.
@lieflingblou-577:
Don’t let HG get to you.
Hy is maar so. So gemaak en gelaat staan.
30 Aug 2012, 15:59 pm
@Dawn-582: I second that, angry comment on a blog made for open debate and then running off
30 Aug 2012, 16:00 pm
@nama1-583: Not worried at all but thanks for the support.
30 Aug 2012, 16:01 pm
@lieflingblou-577:
Moenie worry nie
If he doesnt have an answer he resorts to insults.
30 Aug 2012, 16:03 pm
@Dawn-586: I realised that. Maybe he realised that he was contradicting himself and that he never really took a look at the squad selected to go to Perth.
30 Aug 2012, 16:05 pm
@NZINCHINA-576: Snakey is amazing. He was incredible this year for the Hurricanes, but grows an extra leg when playing in black.
30 Aug 2012, 16:06 pm
@Transformation-552: I will play him any day at outside centre. Move FRansie to full back and de Villiers inside centre.
30 Aug 2012, 16:10 pm
@Transformation-575: Different type of kicking game, Transie.
But you knew that already
30 Aug 2012, 16:11 pm
@lieflingblou-581:
No, I think it was HM who, as DOR at the Bulls, decided that they must change their game plan at the Bulls and play a more open style of rugby. He then went out to buy JJE and the other centre from WP because he saw in them the right players to introduce his new game plan at the Bulls.
Transie may be able to help out here.
Don’t know why he went back into the laager when he was appointed Bok coach.
30 Aug 2012, 16:11 pm
@Zandberg Jansen-589: Agree with Frans at 15 and De Villiers at 12. But I dont think Jordaan is ready yet, needs another season IMO. De Jongh at 13 for this test in regards to the current squad.
Jordaan however is a legend in the making if it wasn’t for his consistant performance in the junior World Cup and his absolute solid defense, the junior boks would not of beat England because he was doing cover defense all over the field cause the forwards pack was vrot most of the time. Except in the final. Also they had the most shocking line-out display i have ever witnessed. but luckily they sorted that out in the final as well.
30 Aug 2012, 16:12 pm
@nama1-573: Remember Sadie that left Stormers? It is him that is leaving Bulls to play for Cheetahs.
@nama1-569: Probably will happen, except JdJ and Lambie will be left on the bench the whole game. Think they both there only to cover if a player picks up a injury. Not if a player is not playing well.
Just reading the papers and there they say it was a travesty that Lambie had remained in his tracksuit for two tests in a row when the game in both tests against Arg cried out for fresh young blood to invigorate the attack. As everyone could see Morne offered nothing.
So doubt very much that Lambie or JdJ will be used unless there is a injury. Well it seems that way to me, Not even if the players they are covering are not playing up to standard. Seems Meyer will keep those players on no matter what.
30 Aug 2012, 16:13 pm
@rossoneri-588:
This the scrummy that played on Saturday?
Also caught my eye.
30 Aug 2012, 16:16 pm
@lieflingblou-592: Just a pity that the “master-maid-game-plan” of “Heineken Viljoen (HM)” won’t warrant such positional changes. Won’t have any impact.
30 Aug 2012, 16:17 pm
I do think HM has the wrong game plan, but am hoping it’s still early days and he will break from his conservatism once he has a few more tests behind him. However, for this to happen, he will have to do some winning, and against the ABs this year, I don’t see it.
He has been very unfortunate to loose players to injury:
Props: Coenie
Hookers: Bismark, Chilli
Locks: Pieter Steph-Du Toit
Flanks: Burger, J Smith, Brossouw, Kolisi
Eighthmen: Spies, Vermeelen
Flyhalf: Goosen
Wings: Basson, JPP
Fullback: Taute
So next year, barring further injury, his team may look like:
15. Taute/ Lambie
14. JPP
13. JDV/ deJong
12. F Steyn/ J Serfontein
11. JJ Englebreght/ Habana banana
10. Goosen (please no Morne)
9. Hougard/ Pienaar
8. Vermeelen
7. J Smith/ Alberts
6. Burger/ Coetzee
5. Bekker/ Kruger/ Du Toit
4. Etzebeth
3. Coenie/ Du Plesis
2. Bismark/ Strauss
1. Beast/ Kitshoff
30 Aug 2012, 16:17 pm
“mind”… time to knock-off and $#-off
30 Aug 2012, 16:17 pm
@lieflingblou-592: I think Jordaan is ready right now. Somehow he will be over looked by Meyer I think.
Agree he saved our butts against England in that JWC game.
Watched the Sharks/Reds game last night and damn that was a awesome try by Jordaan after Keegan had off-loaded to him. Jordaan and Whitehead in that play off game were superb. Really looking forward to seeing Jordaan and Fransie playing together at the Sharks.
30 Aug 2012, 16:17 pm
@Zandberg Jansen-589:
He’s good but he needs more time in top flight rugby. A full season of S15 will be more beneficial for his development then selecting him for the Boks now.
30 Aug 2012, 16:18 pm
@Puma-593: “Just reading the papers and there they say it was a travesty that Lambie had remained in his tracksuit for two tests in a row when the game in both tests against Arg cried out for fresh young blood to invigorate the attack”
were these Debben papers by any chance?
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