Jake hammers Heyneke
30 Aug 2012
Jake White says Heyneke Meyer’s game plan for the Springboks is not a winning one.
The Brumbies mentor was speaking at a fundraiser at Emperors Palace in Kempton Park, according to Die Burger.
‘Heyneke’s coaching style is not a style that will help the Boks to win,’ said White. ‘If you can’t score at least four tries against Argentina, then there is a big problem.’
White said Meyer’s long stint with the Bulls had inevitably influenced his approach at Test level.
‘Heyneke was always going to get criticism because of his background with the Bulls. He was chosen as [Bok] coach because of the success he achieved as Bulls coach and it will naturally play a role in the way he coaches the Boks.’
White said that the more pressure Meyer was put under, the more he would revert to what worked for him at the Bulls.
‘If, for example, he must choose between Gio Aplon and Zane Kirchner, he will choose Kirchner every time,’ he said.
Meanwhile, former Bok captain Bob Skinstad reportedly described Meyer as a ‘dictator’, adding that ‘you can see during the match how he has told the players exactly what to do. They must learn to adapt.’
However, Skinstad later tweeted that he had not used the word ‘dictator’.
832 Comments
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30 Aug 2012, 12:42 pm
@Transformation-395: What are you on about now? There I was pretty explicit… No hidden message… No subliminal inlfuence at all…
Chasing your own tail now, umfana…
Actually now that you mention “Eeengleeesh” in that manner I am suddenly reminded to the words of this song:
“It’s been a long long time
Since they first came
And marched through our village
They taught us to forget our past
And live the future in their image
They said
’you should learn to speak a little bit of english
Don’t be scared of a suit and tie.
Learn to walk in the dreams of the foreigner”
Exactly what that Liberator Cheeky is doing down in your Kings Country hey?
30 Aug 2012, 12:43 pm
@Heavens Game-397: Pollard does not have the boot. His tactical kicking was not that good in the junior world cup.
Heyneke does not want a decent boot. He wants someone that can counter Carter. Jantjies cannot do that.
The problem with your statement is the following. If we played American football and you could pick a guy for each situation then we can go with Pollard, Jantjies and Lambie. Unfortunately we only have 1 flyhalf we can pick at a time. Goosen attacks the line, has a huge boot, etc. He can even develop it more and if Pollard develops into a good player it will add rivalry
30 Aug 2012, 12:43 pm
HM is talking Bullsh#t if he uses a lack of experiences as the reason for our weak performance in Mendoza. The game was lost by our underperforming experienced players like Steyn and especially Bekker!!!!
How can these players be first choice if they can not even execute the basic core part of their roles in the setup!!!! Bekker cant even play for 60min before walking off like a grandpa! And Steyn damn really he is suppose to relieve pressure not induce it. His kick for goal has not only disappointed for the boks but also lost the Bulls 5 games in this years S15. And his territorial kicking game has also gone too sh#t!!!!
There you go HM 2 experienced boks that will always from now on let us down because it has been made clear that they are automatic selection no matter their performance or form.
When Heynecke selected JDV as captain he even made the statement that no player is ensured of his bok spot, and even a captain will be dropped if he is not on form, then why oh why are both the above mentioned players still there. I would play Lambie or even Frans at flyhalf, hell even Grant. Morne should of been dropped from the Bulls S15 team in the beginning of the season.
And Kirschner, sorry he doesnt so much fall in my complaint of experienced boks letting us down, I just think he should of never been a bok in the first place, not to mention a Bulls S15 player. He must be the most one-dimensional fullback in Springbok history. Pls pls pls just get rid of him!!!
And Bekker he has been underperforming for ages now, Kruger made a big step up after also having to wait in Matfields shadow for a couple of years. But look at how he started his S15 career against the Sharks – MAN OF THE MATCH very first S15 game in his career, stole line-out ball, dominated the kick-off, he left the Sharks with their mouths wide open. He was player of the week 3 times, S15 man of the match twice, again with the S15 game after the June tests against the english. He also made the S15 team of the week a number of times from AUS and NZ press sides. He has a much higher work rate than Bekker and cleans the ruck and protects the ball, oh and not too mention he doesnt hang a round in the damn backline all the time trying to campesie it down the line like the crooked old man, thats only wearing a bok jersey because of his dad playing bok.
Kruger was stable for the Boks against England, and I am sure will still improve and become a fortris in the 5 spot, but just keep in mind he only played 11 S15 games and was then put in charge of the bok line-out. Given that I think he did amazing!
Even though I think Goosens selection is amazing news for the boks, I think it has come too soon given his recent injury. He should not be burnt out like Gaffie was for playing him too soon. But I do hope that his inclusion in the squad puts Steyn under pressure and gets him to pull his thumb out of his backside.
The inclusion of Vermeulen might also be to soon, he looked a little unfit and slow in the CC games, but none the less a great player who should of been a bok years ago!!!
F Hougaard needs to be left alone, he needs to be made free of FDP shackles and be allowed to play to his own individual strengths, he is an amazing athlete with the ability to catch his opponents off guard and too change a game with his vision and individual talent! Let the boy play HM.
Even though F Steyn saved the boks on Saturday I hope that he keeps his cool and plays the baal through the hands and uses his overlap rather than throwing immature skip passes to ancient bean storks on trying to make a home for themselves on the wing!
Sorry if my ranting upsets anyone, but this weekend unfortunately shock the Sh#t out of me. Complete disappointment it was.
30 Aug 2012, 12:43 pm
@willievz-399: and be the 1st bok coach to have a mouthpiece?
too complicated.
30 Aug 2012, 12:45 pm
@Transformation-404: Not at all.
It would have been a masterstroke.
30 Aug 2012, 12:45 pm
Jake White a really solid coach. Third best Bok coach and we were lucky to have him. Started assembling a champion team the minute he stepped into the position and we also played some awesome rugby under him- it’s a myth that we were always shite kicking the ball away.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIkrrJGxK3U
30 Aug 2012, 12:48 pm
When play!ng aga!nst the Wallab!es the breakdown area w!ll have major !nfluence on the outcome. Don’t know who the ref !s but !f we can clean those rucks properly we can w!n and can avo!d 8 !n a row.
30 Aug 2012, 12:49 pm
@lieflingblou-403: Agree on most parts, except Hougaard. He is a great rugby player and potentially a great scrumhalf. Unfortunately you cannot play a guy at 9 if his basics are letting him down. Kicking is also a part of the basic skills needed to be a world class scrumhalf. Genia is a prime example.
30 Aug 2012, 12:51 pm
Next year’s Oppikoppi music festival is to be moved to a new koppie which until recently was unheard of.
Lead bands to include Guns n Roses & Fokofpolisiekar…
30 Aug 2012, 12:52 pm
Transformation – Well then we are in some big moelikheid if HM doesn’t rate Lambie as a flyhalf.
Bizzare if HM rates Lambie as a fullback, then why is he not playing inplace of Kirchner?
30 Aug 2012, 12:53 pm
@Horings-361: He still had the option of a fetcher and a decent flyhalf which are the keys to success IMO
30 Aug 2012, 12:53 pm
@Transformation-404:
When Div spoke in Afrikaans (there’s one charity event I think right before the Lions series where he shared the stage with Naas and some other big names) then you could hear he understands the game really well.
Div’s problem regarding communication was that he mixed up his idioms when trying to translate it to Engleish
!
30 Aug 2012, 12:53 pm
@Transformation-395: This flip flopper calls Duane a ‘fat spermwhale’?
Whilst Duane might not have the 6% Body fat that Spies has, he certainly isn’t fat.
Heyneke’s Gollum has obviously bought into all this USN kak bigtime and is probably sucking on his protein shake and human growth hormone as he types…
There are 2 types of athletes in this world, those with natural strength (who are usually never way down on the body fat scale, and a few extra kilos on their bods: the Duane’s, Coenie’s, Schalks, Willem Alberts’s of the world) and then there are those with ‘alleged’ strength that comes with a physique that ‘screeches’: ‘he must be strong, he is so well built”.
Duane Vermeulen is not fond of training, and I have heard him whinge about it personally in gym before. Schalk Burger, by all accounts, is the same. In fact Schalk once said (when asked about supplements) : “Beer and steak are my supplements”. Ditto for Coenie O, I would guess?
Now line those ‘fat spermwhales’ up with let’s say:
Pierre Spies and his sort….
I know who I’m going with…
Heyneke’s Gollum is just upset because Keegan won’t be getting anymore ‘piggy back rides’ in the maul.
Can’t see a maul lifting a spermwhale.
30 Aug 2012, 12:55 pm
@wpstormerbok-412: It is a huge pleasure listening to P Divvy talk about the game of rugby.
30 Aug 2012, 12:57 pm
@Horings-402: What you say about Goosen is exactly what was said about Gaffie Du Toit…
What I am saying about Goosen is that he has no BMT… He is soft in the head, like Gaffie… It has some too easy for him and he is hyped to all heaven over all reason and rationality…
Goosen has hardly played in pressure matches… His D also leaves a lot to be desired – probably worse than Morne Steyn. Its very different playing for the low expectation Cheetahs in a no lose free flowing joie de vivre game than against a top five nation…
What people conveniently forget is a crucial knockout match that Goosen played in not too long ago… Baby Boks vs England… His opposition was a little guy called George Ford who is only just making his way in the Leicester setup… George Ford made Goosen look like a fool… Goosen ended up being a prime contributor to why the Baby Boks lost against England that day.
I am telling you now, Goosen is now on his way to being a Gaffie Du Toit while real deal fly halves are already there in the setup but gathering splinters …
30 Aug 2012, 12:57 pm
@Horings-408: Agreed kicking plays a major role in a a 9′s role. But in HM setup its a prominent tactic that is also over shadowing individual talents because of the prominent role. look at Genia probably the best 9 in the world at this moment and kicking is the last tactic up his sleeve, he is a great fringe payer always catching his opponents off guard, and Hougaard has the same skills in that department. Flair, vision, great pace off the mark, and super upper body strength with an amazing step.
I personally believe that Hougaard will perform much better if he is given the freedom to play to his natural strengths. But if he doesn’t succeed at 9 after that he should be made into a power sub for the 14/11 or 9 positions to be used as an injection of flair in the last 30-20min of test matches. He has already proven his worth in this aspect of Springbok rugby.
30 Aug 2012, 13:00 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-414:
Agree, I don’t think too many have heard him speak about the game in Afrikaans.
30 Aug 2012, 13:00 pm
@wpstormerbok-417:
That’s referring to people commenting on this blog…
30 Aug 2012, 13:02 pm
@Heavens Game-415: Howzit HG.
I am not too concerned about Goosen, and don’t think we will end up Gaffieing him, simply because the circumstances are different.
Remember that Gaffie became a Bok without having played a single CC or Super Rugby game. Goosen, on the other hand, has been a star performer in all the games he has played to date at Super Rugby level.
I have not seen the game against Ford you allude to, but I have seen him play against some of the best 10s in the Southern Hemisphere this year, often behind a mediocre pack of forwards.
And he has cut the mustard.
30 Aug 2012, 13:04 pm
@lieflingblou-403: “His kick for goal has not only disappointed for the boks but also lost the Bulls 5 games in this years S15. And his territorial kicking game has also gone too sh#t!!!!”
don’t say that, Taahirah says morne is the best kicker in SA bar none in 2012!
30 Aug 2012, 13:04 pm
@Jeraldjay-407: JJ
Ref will be Nigel Owens.
Advantage Wallabies – Mr. Owens was the ref in the two Bledisloe Cup games this year.
30 Aug 2012, 13:05 pm
Best Bok side possible at the moment if all players available:
1. Beast
2. Bissy
3. Jannie
4. Etsebeth
5. Kruger
6. Coetsee
7. Alberts
8. Kanko
9. Pienaar
10. Jantjies
11. Habana
12. Steyn
13. Fourie
14. JPP
15. Lambie
No hyped Goose, Fatfuck Sperm Whale Vermeulen and Munster Reject Messiah Donkey anywhere near the team…
Then the Boks will get a 75% win rate sure as nuts.
30 Aug 2012, 13:07 pm
@poppa69-63:
you’re a fouche… oops i mean douche..
@goodstuff-78:
because the boy and his father are smart enough to know that being the 1st of 2nd choice flyhalf at a union like wp means you will in fact never achieve greatness as an individual,
because, the individual is only as remembered for all the titles and trophies he wins with and as part of a team.
no, better he slots in as 3rd choice and works his way through the type of structures which will see him achieve his dreams.
30 Aug 2012, 13:08 pm
@Heavens Game-415: Goosen definitely showed BMT against Eng in the U18 game played in PE in 2010 and if Courtnall Skosan used one of his 10 chance then we would have won against Eng in the 2011 semi final.
Gaffie never had a near 90% kicking record.
30 Aug 2012, 13:09 pm
@wpstormerbok-417: Mate, some of them just love to hate him. They hated him even when most of them had no idea who he was when he was 1st appointed Bok coach. It was just ‘fashionable’ to hate the man, and they bought it.
I am of the school that believe top tier rugby is a helluva lot poorer (on so many levels) without P Divvy.
But hey, that’s just me……and most think I’m an unpatriotic beeetch for not licking Heyneke Meyer’s crocs.
30 Aug 2012, 13:10 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-425: “I am of the school that believe top tier rugby is a helluva lot poorer (on so many levels) without P Divvy.”
Call me the principal of that school.
30 Aug 2012, 13:10 pm
@Transformation-420: I dont care what Taahirah says its not about his damn kicking statistics that are in fact pretty high or that he scored the most points in the S15 thats all great. its about his from that has gone too sh#t. And its about missing vital kicks, game winning kicks his BMT is gone! Go and watch the games the bulls lost in the S15 this year all in the last 10-15min due to morne missing 3 or 4 kicks a game! Taahirah should wake up. Stats mean nothing, if a player cant step up to the plate when he is most needed to perform.
30 Aug 2012, 13:15 pm
@Heavens Game-422: With no less than 9 Sharks starting of course.
No room for Brussow either I see?
Your rejects seem to include only players from the Cape, Bloemfontein and Pretoria?
Are there any Natalian rejects?
Pray give us your ‘bench’ as well, as the joke is incomplete without it – (the bench is the punchline here I’m guessing)
30 Aug 2012, 13:15 pm
@lieflingblou-427: At least he is not playing for the Blue Bulls. Now we can play some decent rugby. WP moet hierdie naweek pasop. Ons gaan vir Nuweland wys hoe speel mens hardloop rugby. Fouche, Venter, Sadie, Engelbrecht, Ndungane en Blommetjies.
30 Aug 2012, 13:15 pm
@lieflingblou-427: Stats do not show the full picture.
But kicking stats become an increasingly relevant discussion point if the player who underperforms is primarily (or sometimes, only) in the team for his place kicking…
30 Aug 2012, 13:21 pm
@willievz-419: Huzzit Willie… I hope you right but I don’t think so…
The Cheetahs first choice pack before injury this year was not mediocre… It held its own…
Goosen received much ball with much space and was treated as the Kingpin go to guy in the Cheetahs team…
I doubt he will get that same treatment in the Bok setup.
I dont say he is a bad player, I just dont think he is as good as the hype makes him out to be… I truly worry that he gets held up on a pedestal as this saviour, thrown in the deepend against DC or QC plus Pocock, McCaw, Reed, Higginbotham after his blood, with slow service from Hougaard and all his inadequacies get shown up all in one go… He will be crushed forever.
In comparison, we have a player like Jantjies who knows what its like to struggle behind a beaten pack, with shitservice and who still manages to shine and win games…
What does Goosen have, that Jantjies hasnt? Other than the obvious melanin deficiency…
Naah, I dont buy the hype. Not at all.
30 Aug 2012, 13:22 pm
@Transformation-218:
pwned
30 Aug 2012, 13:22 pm
@stew-365:
JW surly has to consider his credibility and his reliability as the head coach to jump boat so soon, he might be a candidate for the Aussie Coach but that will be negotiated between the ARU and the Brumbies, that may not fall into the bolting category.
England? not his cup of tea, no SA coach with a SARU experience would enter into the RFU unless paid the King’s ransom.
30 Aug 2012, 13:27 pm
Yes Jake, and your style of Bok rugby was just ******* awesome wasn’t it?
30 Aug 2012, 13:28 pm
@Heavens Game-431: I remember Jantjies and Lambie being in a U20 SA team that got beaten by Aus with Robbie Coleman at centre. Why are they now good enough, but the only critism against Goosen is one game the Baby Boks lost in a U20 World Cup.
30 Aug 2012, 13:30 pm
@Transformation-300:
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-309:
snaaks.
30 Aug 2012, 13:30 pm
@Heavens Game-431: Goosen is a better place kicker and passer than Jantjies.
Note that I say passer – not distributor. There is a big difference. Passing only consitutes one element of distribution, but it is a crucial element.
I wrote earlier in the week that, from what I’ve seen, Jantjies is probably better at drawing defenders and creating space for his outside players than Goosen, but his passing accuracy (hand to hand passing) needs some work. He is often guilty of passing behind his outside players (particularly in wider channels on the skip), which stifles phase momentum. Part of this can be attributed to poor communication or overshooting of dummy or strike runners, but here too the 10 has a crucial role in directing and aligning traffic.
But Jantjies is, certainly, a very talented player who has shown BMT on several occasions. It is just a pity for him that, in my opinion, we have a better option.
30 Aug 2012, 13:31 pm
@Heavens Game-431: Goosen gets at least 10 metres more with his boot from hand and even more from the tee. You may say it is insignificant, but it is the difference between turning the opp back three and not. If the opp back three stands deeper then some angled tactical kicking comes into play.
30 Aug 2012, 13:31 pm
@Horings-424: Aikona… The best BMT I have seen from a 10 since Morne Steyn came on and kicked a series winning penalty from half way against the BI Lions was Pollard in this year’s IRB junior final…
Goosen not even close when needed to actually hold the course, steer the ship and see a team home against all odds…
The boys got talent… tick that box…. But farksake there are already talented 10′s in the Bok setup already…
And you know what – Goosen aint the perfect 10 all the fanboys making him out to be already… For one, I reckon his D is probably the worst out of all 10′s that could be in contention for the Boks….
No… This hype is going to be a big farkup of hideous proportions…
30 Aug 2012, 13:34 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-423:
It’s a certainty that Jantjies is on his way to the Stormers
Must have been the number one consideration in the ‘show me the money now’ decision by the Pollards, if things will not work out at Pretoria, there will be enough bidders from abroad, Sarecenes for instance, or even Australia
If Sias Ebersohn commands a first team spot there, Pollard surl will
30 Aug 2012, 13:35 pm
@Hondo-440: He will make a massive difference at the Stormers.
30 Aug 2012, 13:35 pm
hahahah Jake really? Nick really? hahahahahaha the age of the rent-a-quote back in full effect……………….really okes I suppose its fun to on the other side of it for a change hahahahahahahahah
30 Aug 2012, 13:42 pm
@Horings-435: Good point. But I tell you why… I use it as a measure of Goosen in a pressure, must win situation… Lambie and Jantjies have been in those situations and truly contributed as match winners in must win games… Not as much as Morne Steyn but nevertheless they have been primary contributors to winning games… Finals actually… both of them.
Goosen, by comparison… hasn’t. Yes he has had a whale of a time in a few games for the Cheetahs pretending he’s Kryptonite… but fark me those were hardly pressure games….
Lambie and Jantjies have been through the mill, dealt with disappointment and are still standing… competing and waiting for their big chance…. But it looks like they may wait some more while an overhyped Golden boy jumps the queue because of overblown Bokfan hype…
Yup… From what I see, Goosen is on his way to being the next Gaffie….
30 Aug 2012, 13:44 pm
@Heavens Game-431:
“I dont say he is a bad player, I just dont think he is as good as the hype makes him out to be…”
Exactly the way I feel about Fransie.
I see some guys are already punting for him to be selected at FB now that he isn’t cutting it at inside centre against the big dogs.
Oh yes, Jake…never talk about the game plan of HM. Your, “playing rugby WITHOUT the ball” game plan is what set the Bokke back many, many years in comparison with teams like NZ, Aus. Yes, you may have won a RWC but you destroyed any creativity that our players might have had because you did not make them believe in their own creative ability. You would not have played another game plan than what HM is now doing.
30 Aug 2012, 13:47 pm
@willievz-437: Jeez Willie… How does one argue that point… From the looks of your analysis it seems that Goosen is the perfect 10….
Maybe he’s also seven foot tall, runs a sub 10 100m, carries a huge hammer in secret like a Norse thundergod and shoots thunderbolts out of his ar.sehole.
Btw… In your detailed analysis have you actually spotted any weaknesses in the Golden Boy… Does he have any?
30 Aug 2012, 13:50 pm
Heyneke returned fromArgentina with an upset stomach,went to the toilet and flushed down a Sharkie called Keegan Daniel.Feeling better ,he selected Duane Vermeulen.
30 Aug 2012, 13:50 pm
@Heavens Game-443:
Agree.
Let Goosen play another season or two in the CC and S15 before hailing him as THE ONE in the FH position.ambie and Jantjies both won a CC for their respective teams all on their own self in the past (2010 & 2011).
They deserve to be given a chance ahead of Goosen.
30 Aug 2012, 13:51 pm
@Hondo-440:
Taute and Minnie also seen at Newlands. That would be interesting if true…
30 Aug 2012, 13:52 pm
@nama1-444: Yeah… maybe… But with Fransie you are well and truly wrong… So farken wrong it actually should call into question your “knowledge” about the great game played in heaven…
“some guys are already punting for him to be selected at FB” – who’s some guys… You mean esteemed Keolings….? Come now Nama, you making me laff uncontrollably…
Put your cockonablock and name me a better SA 12 than Frans Steyn… Come…. Dispense some esteemed knowledge instead of sniping from the sidelines like mangy cur dog…
GIVE IT!!!
30 Aug 2012, 13:53 pm
@Heavens Game-431: Hear hear…
“In comparison, we have a player like Jantjies who knows what its like to struggle behind a beaten pack, with shitservice and who still manages to shine and win games…
What does Goosen have, that Jantjies hasnt? Other than the obvious melanin deficiency…
Naah, I dont buy the hype. Not at all.” Good post!
I find that in SA talent is judged by how FAR a FH can kick… the furthest, the most talented he is…
and one day they will discover a kid who can kick for poles from his “22″… if you think Goosen is hyped up… wait till then…he would be treated like the Soon-Coming-King himself….
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