236 Comments

• 1.grant10:
  5 Sep 2012, 13:52 pm

  M Steyn is the problem in backline…..we will never operate at optimum capacity with this guy at 10…

• 2.TooMuchRugby:
  5 Sep 2012, 13:53 pm

  Is it my PC? Can’t hear a word he saying. Sounds like talking from a dragon’s arse

• 3.keo:
  5 Sep 2012, 13:57 pm

  @TooMuchRugby-2: It’s your PC mate

• 4.grant10:
  5 Sep 2012, 13:58 pm

  I agree 100 % with Keo….the man is absolutely spot on….

  Lambie for 50 min….then over to the Special One….

  And F Louw to counter Hooper at openside…..

  Perfect sense….but somehow Meyer makes it hard on for us….

  enough to make a grown man cry….

• 5.Open-Mind:
  5 Sep 2012, 13:58 pm

  Couldn’t agree more.. 10 should be most versatile and clever player on the pitch, Morne isn’t

• 6.grant10:
  5 Sep 2012, 13:59 pm

  However I do believe the Boks will snatch this game ….desperate Boks are dangerous Boks…

• 7.keo:
  5 Sep 2012, 14:00 pm

  We know what we have in MS at 10. We are not expected to win away from home in Aus or NZ. What better time to try something different. Start with Lambie at 10 and introduce Goosen in last 30. Start with Louw as a specialist opensider. It gives HM a comparison to what he has produced in last 5 Tests. Now it is more of the same. We don’t have a counter at breakdown and we don’t have a 10 starting who can ask questions of any defence. Such a missed opportunity as there was everything to gain and nothing to lose.

• 8.willievz:
  5 Sep 2012, 14:01 pm

  LOL!!!!

  Just the other day he was saying that Morne is key to the gameplan!!

• 9.keo:
  5 Sep 2012, 14:02 pm

  @grant10-6: We are in our first year post a WC why should we be desperate? We should be trying to find the right formula. How have the Boks evolved in last 3 Tests? That’s the issue I have, there has been no improvement and nothing alternative has been offered. That is what I find disappointing; more so than the 2 draws.

  We can’t want to be Nr 1 in the world but we do the same thing week in and week out and ask why we have a 60 percent winning return?

• 10.keo:
  5 Sep 2012, 14:04 pm

  @willievz-8: No clever guy I said MS was the key to the percentages game HM was playing. I am saying he is not to an alternative approach and that there are options to explore with Lambie and Goosen at 10 and that we will learn nothing new from MS at 10 against Aus. Think before you embarrass yourself.

• 11.HongKongSlong:
  5 Sep 2012, 14:06 pm

  @keo-7: Agree with you 100%, it was a very similar situation against England as well, it was a development tour for England with a brand new team and players, a captain with only 5 caps to his name! HM is showing some signs of adapting, but far to slowly and conservatively. Changing a playing approach and style would be a bigger positive then personel I think, because only having one approach to everything makes it so easy for opposition to prepare for battle!

• 12.John Galt:
  5 Sep 2012, 14:06 pm

  Yeah have to agree here.

  Last chance saloon for Steyn.
  Problem is, what happens if Steyn has an ok game?
  Will HM keep him at 10 because he’s ‘improving’?

  Only way M Steyn will be dropped is if he has a shocker. By which time it will be too late to experiment with Goosen and Lambie.

• 13.puff:
  5 Sep 2012, 14:07 pm

  I am fine with Morne Steyn starting at 10 on Saturday.
  Let’s see how he goes with Pienaar on his inside.
  Goosen is not ready to start a match yet.
  But – for pity’s sake – why not start Lambie at 15?
  He could slot in to first receiver every now and again to vary Bok game a bit.

• 14.puff:
  5 Sep 2012, 14:08 pm

  KEO

  Do you think Willie Le Roux is Bok material?

• 15.TooMuchRugby:
  5 Sep 2012, 14:09 pm

  @keo-10: Fair enough Keo, but is HM gonna change the gameplan?

• 16.grant10:
  5 Sep 2012, 14:09 pm

  @keo-9:
  Agree….the desperation will be permeated through the team via Meyer because imagine we take a loss in Perth and a caning in Dunedin…….already Meyer has ostracised most of the supporters outside of Pretoria and the supporters will want blood if we lose next 2 on the trot…that is the reality….

  Boks lose 3 of next 4 and then where does that leave Meyer…..?

  M Steyn and the lack of a fetcher has been at the root of Bok peoblems for a long time already….

  Meyer is making no friends …..I suggest he find a mentor who points out some home truths….because so far he has tramped in about every landmine he possibly can…..

• 17.Transformation:
  5 Sep 2012, 14:12 pm

  Morne is a warrior! you don’t drop warriors

• 18.willievz:
  5 Sep 2012, 14:16 pm

  @Transformation-17:

  The same guy who said “if you want it (10 jersey), come and get it”, is now in the team primarily because the coach likes him.

• 19.HongKongSlong:
  5 Sep 2012, 14:16 pm

  @Transformation-17: Morne was a warrior with a boot that worked. Now he’s a warrior with a wonky boot and nothing else! Let someone else have a chance, he’s had plenty. Nothing wrong with being dropped, a real “warrior” will fight and come back better.

• 20.TheTackler:
  5 Sep 2012, 14:19 pm

  @Transformation-17: You mean “worrier”, surely?

• 21.grant10:
  5 Sep 2012, 14:20 pm

  M Steyn has and always will be a weakness in the Bok team….with him you are basically committing to a 1 track game plan and heaven forbid you dont dominate up front….because then you will lose….[ or draw to Poms and Argies ]….

  No man…we want to challenge we need to change…..same old has not cut it since 2010….

• 22.i_love_u_bakkiesbotha:
  5 Sep 2012, 14:24 pm

  @Transformation-17:
  its mental strength, transie… mental strength…

• 23.katman:
  5 Sep 2012, 14:26 pm

  At least we’re playing in a DA stronghold.

• 24.John Galt:
  5 Sep 2012, 14:26 pm

  @HongKongSlong-19:
  Yeah I think you’ve hit the nail on the head.
  His boot was always his saving grace and even that has deserted him now.

  His consistency in 2012 has been absolutelty abysmal.

  Beware the one trick pony who loses its trick.

• 25.Open-Mind:
  5 Sep 2012, 14:27 pm

  @Transformation-17: average warriors stay average, Morne will never be better than the guy with the good boot. He preforms at the top of his ability and working hard at it. New 10 new inspiration.

• 26.willievz:
  5 Sep 2012, 14:27 pm

  @grant10-21: Morne’s biggest issue on early / immature phases is that his first option is always to kick. This has not always been the case, but ingrained into his DNA.

  His passing accuracy is excellent, but his overall distribution at the highest level has been very ineffective in recent times. He struggles to draw defenders and is very lateral with ball in hand.

  He gets away with this at S15 level behind a strong pack of forwards which offers him (and Olivier on his outside) a little more space in which to make decisions, but at international level he does not have that luxury and defenses are generally more tight even if the Bok pack dominate the collisions (we saw this against Aus in Durban and Wellington in 2011).

• 27.Open-Mind:
  5 Sep 2012, 14:32 pm

  HM states that the fundamental part of his game-plan is players reading game situations and acting accordingly, only way this is going to suffice is by picking players that has the ability to read. Reading the game is a talent JdV has it Frans Steyn has it Lambie has it

• 28.Brigadier Van Zyl:
  5 Sep 2012, 14:38 pm

  @keo-7:

  pretty sure victor matfield dupreez smit,etc also played in all 7 loses if not more.
  a flyhalf can only play as well as the ball he gets. And the bok ruck work has been shite for near on 2 years now.
  except, now we have a shite lineout and scrum as well.

• 29.Transformation:
  5 Sep 2012, 14:39 pm

  @willievz-18: @HongKongSlong-19: @Open-Mind-25: the SCARY part id that meyer thinks the parts of Morne’s game that you all are whingeing about are FINE, it’s only his kicking – tactical and goal – that need “coaching”

  But Meyer is still backing his man. “Listen, Morné is a warrior. He knows he is not playing … Although I thought during the previous two games, he played really well,” the Bok mentor said after the match. “It’s just his kicking that is not there, and he has high standards. I know Morné, and worked with him for quite some time, and he has standards and will be back stronger.

  “I have full confidence in him, and it’s not a question about him not working hard. He really works hard. He is just not striking the ball the way he is used to.”

  “I wanted to keep Morné on the field, because I didn’t think that he played badly. It was just his tactical kicking that wasn’t good enough.”

• 30.Tacitus:
  5 Sep 2012, 14:40 pm

  There’s a fundamental disconnect here, on the side of these armchair critics.

  Get this clear: Meyer isn’t changing his gameplan to the one you guys are asking for. His personnel changes for this game don’t signify that he is now acknowledging that you guys have been right all along and that his ideas were wrong.

  Nope. His gameplan is still exactly the same. He is just trying to find personnel who can implement it better.

  Hougaard was given an extended chance at 9 and found wanting.
  Bekker was given a chance at lock and found wanting.
  Potgieter was played out of desperation, and found wanting.

  The moment Vermullet and Goosen became available they were pulled into the squad. And the serious lack of loose forward depth has now also forced Meyer to bring in Louw.

  But all of the above does not mean that he is going to deviate from his gamelan one iota. His game is still based around a solid tactical kicker. And Lambie can never fill this role. Hence Goosen leapfrogging him into the matchday 22.

  In fact, Pienaars inclusion highlights this even more. He is just strengthening our kicking game even further.

  So you guys can pipe down now. Meyer is sticking to his guns. He is just struggling to find the players that can implement it properly at the moment.

  That’s the experimentation that will take place this year. Not experimentation with the gameplan, but experimentation with the right players to execute it effectively.

• 31.willievz:
  5 Sep 2012, 14:41 pm

  @Tacitus-30: We know.

  Execution over innovation.

• 32.Transformation:
  5 Sep 2012, 14:41 pm

  @HongKongSlong-19: Meyer also dismissed suggestions that Steyn’s poor goal-kicking form meant his overall game had suffered.

  “Morné played good rugby at times, even though he didn’t kick so well,” the coach said, “Morné is a player that is mentally very tough and it is just a matter of time before he is back to his best.

  “It is my job to get him back to his bestand I am confident I will get him back there [to his best].

• 33.Transformation:
  5 Sep 2012, 14:45 pm

  @Tacitus-30: you’ve said this before Meyer’s gameplan is infallible it is just that “the current Boks are kak, to use a technical term”

• 34.mikeybrass:
  5 Sep 2012, 14:49 pm

  @Tacitus-30: Don’t believe it. What Meyer is doing is trying to find what tweaks he can make to the basic fundamentals patterns which fit the Boks, like the evolution he wanted to make to the Bulls by bringing in Pine Pienaar. Meyer has stated he thinks Lambie is a quality flyhalf; he just happens to rate Goosen more.

• 35.Jeez:
  5 Sep 2012, 14:50 pm

  Ridiculous Keo. I dont agree at all.

  HM rightly wont start with Goosen and it would be unfair to through him in the deep end. Lambie is the backup fullback, so he wont start. He mentioned that Lambies tactical kicking is not up to scratch and will only be picked at 15.

  It all seems pretty logical to me. Imo, this is just the start of MS being nudged out of the starting team and one day the squad. His successor has been drafted into the match 22 and will be given more game time and probably start a game at the EOTYT. Bok supporters should just be patient ffs.

  If HM gets too adventurous and fails everyone will say he should have stuck with experience and introduced the youngsters in gradually.

  Let him gradually take the team where he wants them to go. In the long run it will benefit the players and the team.

  HM said he will be ruthless in his selections after the away games. We should hold him to that and not expect to chop and change on tour.

  HM: “I’m a guy who backs the players, will give them continuity and once we’ve played away from home then I’ll look at the combinations and be ruthless.”

  Besides the best senario is if MS has a shocker and gets subbed. Goosen will feel more relaxed coming on for a player who hasn’t played particularly well.

• 36.John Galt:
  5 Sep 2012, 14:52 pm

  @Tacitus-30:
  I’d be intrigued to hear why HM believes M Steyns tactical kicking has been any better than Lambies this season. Or any other quality flyhalf in SA.

  Truth be told, that was MS strenth and its not like he’s just lost it the last few tests. Its been subpar the whole season. Badly subpar.

  So why, in a position as critical as flyhalf, has he stuck with such a woefully out of form player for so long? When others like Bekker and Potgieter and Daniel and JJ etc are so quickly discarded?

• 37.Transformation:
  5 Sep 2012, 14:53 pm

  @mikeybrass-34: he said lambie’s position is fullback but can be played at flyhalf provided his tactical kicking is fixed…

• 38.grant10:
  5 Sep 2012, 14:53 pm

  @Tacitus-30: well then Meyer must not cry if sticking to this antiquated game plan finds him coaching Tukkies next year…..

• 39.Jeez:
  5 Sep 2012, 14:54 pm

  @Tacitus-30: So true

• 40.Gumboots:
  5 Sep 2012, 14:57 pm

  @Tacitus-30:

  I can swear Lambie is in the match 22!!!

• 41.Winesy83:
  5 Sep 2012, 14:57 pm

  Just looking through Keo’s older “future star” posts. Some are good but does anyone know where the following are?

  Ruan Smith

  Tythan Adams

  Adriaan Theisinger

  Tom Seabela

  Juan-Claude Roos

  Garth April

  Craig Barry

• 42.trupisero:
  5 Sep 2012, 14:59 pm

  @Tacitus-30: Gotta find kak players for a kak gameplan.

  @John Galt-36: Exactly….some favourites get an extended stay to “improve” others find themselves from starting to not in the squad within 1 game – how is that not “picking” by Huilerige Meyer?

  Feeding bullshit all the time. At least Divvy had enetertainment value. This oke has fokkoli.

• 43.Transformation:
  5 Sep 2012, 14:59 pm

  @John Galt-36: because Meyer believe HE can coach morne back to form!

• 44.grant10:
  5 Sep 2012, 15:00 pm

  The M Steyn tactical kicking excellence has been nothing but a myth as well ….

  Butch James is far better…..

  So is Goosen and Lambie is probably on a par with M Steyn…..

  Jantjes is downright unlucky as well…..

  So many better options than M Steyn

  It would be funny if it were not so tragic

• 45.Transformation:
  5 Sep 2012, 15:01 pm

  @trupisero-42: meyer is either a hypocrite or he thinks Saffas are dom not to see that what he said a month ago doesn’t correspond with what he said last week versus what he said on arrival in Perth!

• 46.katman:
  5 Sep 2012, 15:02 pm

  Jeez, but we are a bunch of miserable little thunderclouds today. Mark the words of the katman, here on this 5th day of September 2012: We will beat this Aussie outfit in Perth, and by a decent margin too. As poor as we were in Mendosa, they were twice as bad against the ABs. We’re not the only team with depth issues – the Aussies have Faiinga and Horn in the midfield, ferfucksake. And our guys will have a heap to prove after their last attempt. So I see a 10 point victory here. And at least half you naysayers will be kissing the Heyneke derriere again this time next week.

• 47.londonshark:
  5 Sep 2012, 15:04 pm

  @grant10-44:

  Spot on. Morne was always a 90% kicker (in his day), but was always a good (not great) tactical kicker.

  As for Lambie, his tactical kicking (for me) is on par if not better than Mornes. Lambie is better than Morne on ALL fronts at the moment (place kicking included).

• 48.Tacitus:
  5 Sep 2012, 15:06 pm

  @londonshark-47:

  I actually agree that Morne’s tactical kicking has never been as good as his in form goalkicking. Too many kicks tended to go straight down the throat of a waiting player – and here I’m not talking about up and unders, but kicks meant to find open spaces at the back.

  Anyway, Goosen is hopefully the answer there.

• 49.mikeybrass:
  5 Sep 2012, 15:08 pm

  @londonshark-47: Too right and Lambie has enough international experience by now. Lambie could have been starting at 10 with Goosen introduced later.

• 50.race of tan:
  5 Sep 2012, 15:09 pm

  Keo i scorrect. Lievremont juggled his team loads post RWC 2007 and it worked wonders in the end.

• 51.Tacitus:
  5 Sep 2012, 15:09 pm

  @mikeybrass-49:

  That is such a bad strategy.

  Go to a newcomer at 10 for the first 50, and then to another newcomer for the last 30.

  Brilliant plan with which to win a crucial game. Not.

• 52.trupisero:
  5 Sep 2012, 15:11 pm

  @katman-46: ‘n blinde hoender pik ook nou en dan ‘n mielie raak.

• 53.i_love_u_bakkiesbotha:
  5 Sep 2012, 15:12 pm

  @katman-46:

  13 Adam Ashley-Cooper, 12 Berrick Barnes..?..

  i get the gist of you post though and do agree.

• 54.londonshark:
  5 Sep 2012, 15:13 pm

  @Tacitus-48:

  I hope so too (Goosen), but I honestly think Lambie could fill the void at 10 NOW.

  If Goosen is to be our 1st choice 10 (and that is still an if), we can’t have Morne as backup. Why not groom Lambie to be an international 10. Lambie is set to have a full Super Rugby season at flyhalf, so the gametime will be there for him.

  Then at least we have quality cover for Goosen (again, assuming he reaches his potential).

• 55.race of tan:
  5 Sep 2012, 15:13 pm

  Tacitus #51 – I agree. You can’t start with a newbie and finish with a new newbie, disasterous.

  Start with M Steyn and bring him off at 50 or 60 min to give Lambie or Goosen a shot. Right now i believe Lambie deserves a shot!

• 56.capebull:
  5 Sep 2012, 15:13 pm

  @John Galt-36: Although I rate Lambie , you have to ask why did he not play 10 at Sharkies ?

  He had schocker’s against England at 15 as well as in S15 final.

• 57.i_love_u_bakkiesbotha:
  5 Sep 2012, 15:14 pm

  @grant10-44:
  nothing’s tragic, grant

  get over yourself…

• 58.shooter:
  5 Sep 2012, 15:16 pm

  2 games ago Morne was the man. When he played like a machine. 1 game ago the whole pack got mangled. and now Morne is the villain.

  @keo-7: we are not expected to win away from home… yet the supporters expect it. We expect them to win. We do.

• 59.londonshark:
  5 Sep 2012, 15:16 pm

  @capebull-56:

  lambie should have never played in the Super 15 final. Period.

  Plus, he isn’t a 15. He ONLY played at 15 for the Sharks because he got injured, came back, but Freddie was playing some brilliant rugby at 10, so he moved to 15.

  He is a natural flyhalf.

• 60.londonshark:
  5 Sep 2012, 15:18 pm

  @shooter-58:

  Morne was never ‘the man’ 2 weeks ago. He kicked his goals (like he should) but still had a very average all round game.

  Some twits in the media got carried away (because he finally got his kicks over).

• 61.Open-Mind:
  5 Sep 2012, 15:20 pm

  @shooter-58: Morne was “the man” ones in how many starts.. Sound like one hit wonder type off stuff. If you get enough opportunities you can recreate “wonders” once in a while.. That is not a valid statement.

• 62.londonshark:
  5 Sep 2012, 15:20 pm

  If Goosen is to be our 10, Lambie must be back up. Goosen is potentially Lambie 2.0.

  Faster, stronger, bigger boot etc. But he still (like Lambie) has an attacking mindset.

  SO, unless Meyer plans to coach the flair out of Goosen, we cannot have Morne as our number 2 flyhalf. Which again begs the question, why isn’t Lambie starting at 10??????

• 63.capebull:
  5 Sep 2012, 15:21 pm

  @londonshark-59: So if he is so good at 10, why did Plum pick Freddie ?

  0/20 WC Jantjies played 10 , Lambie at 15, to me it seems he is 15 playing 10, which should be easier than 10 playing 15.

• 64.shooter:
  5 Sep 2012, 15:24 pm

  @londonshark-60: Yes he was. anycase, let’s say he was not…
  Why then was nobody mentioning the disaster we have at 10.
  and more importantly, the second the part of my post was that the pack and Hougaard, and in fact every one on the field was poor on the day – we know Arg played well –
  why single out Morne as root of all problems.

  Mvovo didn’t get much chance, Habana was silent, JDV was not really leading or playing like one would want, Kirchner had a pretty average game. The pack, well, yes the pack.

  Any coach would be stupid to make wholesale changes into his 5th game, after such a loss.

• 65.katman:
  5 Sep 2012, 15:25 pm

  Of course we’d all like to put only exciting youngsters in the team. But we don’t have any consequences for selecting a team that might bomb out badly. When you’re the coach, and the buck stops with you, you need to be pragmatic to a degree. And I can understand Meyer playing Morne ahead of Lambie and Jantjes. Neither of these two youngsters has set the world alight, and I think it’s only our severe disappointment with the Boks that has made us elevate them so highly. Desperation can be a *****.

  My team of “no consequences if they bomb” would look something like this:

  1. Mtwarira
  2. Du Plessis
  3. Mujati
  4. Etsebeth
  5. Kruger
  6. Kolisi
  7. Alberts
  8. Kankowski
  9. Pienaar
  10. Goosen
  11. Mvovo
  12. F. Steyn
  13. De Jong
  14. Pietersen
  15. Taute

  16. Brits
  17. Oosthuizen
  18. F v/d Merwe
  19. M. Coetzee
  20. Hougaard
  21. Jordaan
  22. A. Coetzee

• 66.londonshark:
  5 Sep 2012, 15:25 pm

  @capebull-63:

  Freddie is an international flyhalf with a habit of beating the All Blacks, I think Plumtree felt he needed both Lambie and Freddie in the team. Freddie can only play 10 (or very badly at 9), while Lambie can do the job at 15.

  Plus, Ludik only found his form later on in the season.

• 67.Open-Mind:
  5 Sep 2012, 15:28 pm

  @capebull-63: Lambie is another victim of versatility, being versatile in South African rugby means never settling in regular position. Lambie although a 10 had the ability to be a good 15 as well therefore Jantjies only able to play 10 was slotted in at 10. (Same happened to R Pienaar B Russel and G du Toit)

• 68.TooMuchRugby:
  5 Sep 2012, 15:29 pm

  These Sharkies sure have a love affair with Lambiekins. While he is a good enough player (certainly better than Steyn) I really don’t get the hype coming from the Sharkies. He’s not that good and nowhere near the potential of Goosen.

• 69.gunther:
  5 Sep 2012, 15:29 pm

  Nice to have Grantie back posting the same thing 30 times a day.

  good times.
  

• 70.londonshark:
  5 Sep 2012, 15:30 pm

  @shooter-64:

  It’s not so much about Morne playing poorly, it’s more about how he’s not getting any better.

  Kirchner, Hougie and JDV were also fried by the media but at least they’ve shown some form this season. Morne has been poor ALL year.

• 71.shooter:
  5 Sep 2012, 15:32 pm

  @shooter-64: Heyneke is under some pressure. Do you think he is going to make it easier on himself to go and drop his 40 odd capped flyhalve on the day.

  Yes, why not throw the youngsters into the deepend on tour. Lose shape and form all over, maybe. With the unconsolidated scrum we have that is distinctly possible.

  All this Lambie this Goosen that -is easy to say.. but if it doesn’t work out, where to from there.. then you sheepishly ask Morne to step in again? Apologize to Goosen? Say, no, another chance when you’re ready in 3/4/5 games from now..

  bring them in by all means. when the time is right. Home games even better.

  Goosen is the answer eventually. we all know that by now. he is 20, think he has some time on his side.

• 72.londonshark:
  5 Sep 2012, 15:33 pm

  @TooMuchRugby-68:

  No one is saying he’s better than Goosen. Read the posts carefully.

  But he is potentially Goosens backup, so why isn’t Lambie starting at 10 if Goosen is injured. Why play Morne at all?????

• 73.mikeybrass:
  5 Sep 2012, 15:33 pm

  @Tacitus-51: Lambie has enough international experience to cope. It’s a terrible idea to go with a no 10 whose tactical kicking cannot land on a barn, who cannot hit a Westminster pillar from 10 metres, whose distribution skills have gone to pot and under whose flyhalf guidance we have lost 6 out of the last 7 matches. It’ll be inspite of Steyn if we win, not because of him.

• 74.YoMama:
  5 Sep 2012, 15:33 pm

  Keo, use your brain.

  Sticking with Morne is the last resort and probably the best plan, for this weekend.

  Firstly, do you remember a certain phenom named Gaffie, whose career was destroyed by an over eager and unstrusting coach?

  We all know that Goose is the bees knees. Two things to keep in mind with him, though.
  One he is still coming out of an injury. All rugby players are the walking wounded. The best teams are those who have the most amount of healthy players. The Mendoza test was a testimony to the sheer stupidity of the Super Rugby circus. The other issue is that for all his talent, he is still ‘n bietjie nat agter die ore. Let’s not do a Gaffie on him.

  Lambie would have been a better choice for this weekend than Morne, but that again would be yanking a chain. With Goose and Elton Jantjes around, Lambie will never be a permanent Bok #10. He should resign himself to becoming a great Bok #15. It has been a while since we had one of those…

  Which leaves us with Morne Steyn. If I were Heyneke Meyer, I would sit Morne down and explain to him that the next two years will be all about training Goose and Elton to become breat Boks. That might be his legacy.

  For now, he is a stop-gap jersey filler, but is the best that we have at the moment. South African supporters should resign themselves to this and remember that this is a guy who has beaten both the British Lions and the All Blacks. Not a bad stop gap.

  Go Morne, Go Bokke. Bliksem Hulle!

• 75.gunther:
  5 Sep 2012, 15:34 pm

  @katman-65:

  Your team of no consequence is of no consequence.

• 76.shooter:
  5 Sep 2012, 15:35 pm

  @katman-65: exactly, something like that.
  team sheets are not read,,, so besides that, you’re making the point.

• 77.RL:
  5 Sep 2012, 15:36 pm

  @londonshark-54: look Lambie has played superrugby for 3 years now and less than 1 full season at flyhalf. If he can’t nail down the 10 jersey for his franchise then you are expecting a miracle for him to play 10 for the Boks – get it Keo. He is being messed around and the tag “utility” player is now pinned to him. Goosen will grab the flyhalf spot and either Taute, Le Roux or Coetzee will grab the fullback jersey. Lambie will sit on the bench doing exactly what utility players are meant to do – and that is wait. He and his fans needs to accept his fate.

• 78.gunther:
  5 Sep 2012, 15:37 pm

  Snorkel is bowling a pile of poo.

  He is the Ruan Pienaar of fast bowling.

• 79.katman:
  5 Sep 2012, 15:39 pm

  @gunther-75: Hey, at least I numbered them from 1 to 22, so they’re kind of consequential.

• 80.i_love_u_bakkiesbotha:
  5 Sep 2012, 15:40 pm

  @gunther-69:
  

• 81.Jeez:
  5 Sep 2012, 15:40 pm

  HM says that Goosen is the future of bok rugby. So who will be his number two in the coming years? I doubt it will be MS…

  Hopefully Jantjies will one day be a regular substitute for the number 10 jersey.

  I bet HM will be more adventurous with the EOTYT. Why risk and gamble against the top 2 teams in world rugby?

• 82.i_love_u_bakkiesbotha:
  5 Sep 2012, 15:41 pm

  brian mujati will never play for the boks again.
  if luke wanting to puke on the jersey or the geogate affair was anything to go by.

• 83.londonshark:
  5 Sep 2012, 15:42 pm

  @RL-77:

  RL, you missing my point.

  Lambie(RIGHT NOW)is best for the Boks. Not Morne. Goosen WILL BE OUR 10, but who’s his backup??

  His backup should be Lambie.

• 84.katman:
  5 Sep 2012, 15:42 pm

  @gunther-78: On the upside, the English team is looking more English than it has in decades with KP fired, Strauss stepping down, Trott out with a busted hand… Now they just need to get rid of Kieswetter and they’ll be back to their old mediocre paleness.

• 85.londonshark:
  5 Sep 2012, 15:43 pm

  And guys, Lambie has shown his worth at Currie Cup and Super Rugby level (and even somewhat with the Boks at 15).

  Elton is years away from the Bok jersey (unless he moves from the Lions).

• 86.i_love_u_bakkiesbotha:
  5 Sep 2012, 15:44 pm

  @gunther-69:

  oh and by the way,

  granty thinks the boks are missing a genuine specialist fetcher…

  

• 87.Tacitus:
  5 Sep 2012, 15:44 pm

  @Jeez-81:

  Pollard’s probably earmarked for that backup role.

  Sorry Lambie and co. Sometimes timing is just not on your side.

• 88.i_love_u_bakkiesbotha:
  5 Sep 2012, 15:45 pm

  i rate fouche too.

• 89.HongKongSlong:
  5 Sep 2012, 15:46 pm

  @Transformation-32: Hahahaha that’s funny! If Meyer truly believes that, then he’s lost the plot, I just think he’s trying to justify his terible selecting.

• 90.i_love_u_bakkiesbotha:
  5 Sep 2012, 15:47 pm

  @Tacitus-87:
  any of those three could easily surpass lambie and elton in the not too distant future.

• 91.gunther:
  5 Sep 2012, 15:48 pm

  Indeed Katters and Dernbach.

  Soon they are are going to have to stop stocking creme soda and biltong in the home dressing room.

• 92.londonshark:
  5 Sep 2012, 15:49 pm

  @Tacitus-87:

  Pollard???? Oh good grief. he hasn’t even played senior rugby yet!!!??

  @i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-88:

  You are kidding me. Fouche had ONE GOOD GAME. He is kak kak kak. And look, I live in PTA and love the Bulls, but this guy is rubbish.

• 93.katman:
  5 Sep 2012, 15:50 pm

  @gunther-91: Word is they’ve already taken down the Minki posters.

• 94.TooMuchRugby:
  5 Sep 2012, 15:53 pm

  @i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-88: Fouche is just another MSteyn clone, manufactured in the boiling vats of Snor city

• 95.Jeez:
  5 Sep 2012, 15:53 pm

  @katman-65:

  1. Steenkamp/Beast
  2. Du Plessis
  3. Coenie
  4. Etsebeth
  5. Kruger
  6. Brussouw
  7. Burger
  8. Vermeulen

  9. Pienaar
  10. Goosen
  11. Mvovo
  12. F. Steyn
  13. Fouie
  14. Pietersen
  15. Taute

  16. Chilli
  17. Jannie
  18. Mostert
  19. Alberts
  20. Hougaard
  21. Jordaan
  22. Aplon

• 96.gunther:
  5 Sep 2012, 15:55 pm

  @katman-93:

  Fuckpants.

  Next thing you know they are going to wipe the Parlotones off the team iPod.

• 97.TooMuchRugby:
  5 Sep 2012, 15:56 pm

  @londonshark-83: Sorry to say, but Lambie at flyhalf doesn’t install any confidence in me

• 98.katman:
  5 Sep 2012, 15:58 pm

  @gunther-96: That would just be a gigantic mistake. Gigantic.

• 99.RL:
  5 Sep 2012, 16:01 pm

  @londonshark-83: you missed the boat – right now Elton is the best 10 SA after the Goose – I see through the Lambie hype you spin.

• 100.Heavens Game:
  5 Sep 2012, 16:02 pm

  @capebull-63: Because Lambieghini was injured… Capishe?

  And Freddy was playing like a man possessed at 10… no doubt bouyed by the return of Steyn at 12…

  Remember that game that the Sharks played against the Bulls after the intenrnational break… Fark me, I hardly saw a more one sided game between these two teams ever… Remember who was MoM? Yup, Freddie the Frog.

  Now to repeat, Lambie did not play in that game because he was injured… He actually shouldn’t have played in the tests against England either because he was playing with injury…

  Lambies first full game back at S15 was against the Chiefs… S15 final.

  Now, if you cast a little glimpse over stats for S15 2011, then you see what Lambie can do… And by golly goodness the Sharks backline of 2011 was nothing like 2012, and nothing like it will be in 2013.

  Wouldn’t it be farken quite embarrassing if the Sharks, spearheaded by Lambie at 10, playing a superb all round total rugby style, manage to win S15 in 2013… While the Boks are only moderately successful with a win % of 60% by that time, playing a dour game with majority Bulls and Stormers darlings….

  Watch this space, because at this rate it could very well happen…

• 101.WP-Forever:
  5 Sep 2012, 16:03 pm

  @katman-98:

  What they hell were they thinking, were they thinking at all?

• 102.Heavens Game:
  5 Sep 2012, 16:05 pm

  @Heavens Game-100: Now if you look at this backline:

  9 McLeod/Reinach
  10 Lambie
  11 Mvovo/Sithole
  12 Steyn/Whitehead
  13 Jordaan
  14. JPP/Ludik/Odungwane
  15 Ludik/Viljoen

  And this excludes rumoured moves to the Dynamite of Jantjies, Taute and others….

  And you look at the current Bok backline, and the direction it seems to be moving, in terms of personnel and playing style….

  I tell which backline is far superior… and that backline ain’t the Boks especially if Hougaard at 9, JdV at 13 and Kirchner at 15…

• 103.katman:
  5 Sep 2012, 16:08 pm

  @WP-Forever-101: We’ve reached the limit of my ability to quote the Parlaphonies. Thank god.

• 104.gunther:
  5 Sep 2012, 16:08 pm

  @katman-98:

  Arggh they’re only human.

• 105.WP-Forever:
  5 Sep 2012, 16:10 pm

  @katman-103:

  We started something good, but now it’s got to end.

• 106.TooMuchRugby:
  5 Sep 2012, 16:10 pm

  @WP-Forever-101:
  What the hell…..What the hell….

• 107.katman:
  5 Sep 2012, 16:14 pm

  @gunther-104: @WP-Forever-105: huh?

  @TooMuchRugby-106: That sounds familiar.

  The only one I know is “Here comes the man”, and no thanks to the runny mascara gang.

• 108.i_love_u_bakkiesbotha:
  5 Sep 2012, 16:14 pm

  @londonshark-92:
  @TooMuchRugby-94:
  player of the month R10000 prize award courtesy of absa.

  he’s grown leaps and bounds this season has put on weight, runs direct and hard, strong on the tackle and of course his kicking (allround) is top notch.

  i really think he is there or there abouts in the pecking order.

• 109.londonshark:
  5 Sep 2012, 16:14 pm

  @RL-99:

  Ha ha, look, if you honestly think Elton is the best 10 in SA, we must agree to disagree.

  Elton is very good, but because of his time with the Lions, no one knows how good he actually is. I hope he moves to the Stormers next year, then we can talk.

• 110.londonshark:
  5 Sep 2012, 16:16 pm

  @i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-108:

  Oh wow, player of the month in a HUGELY watered down Currie Cup, based on ONE match against the team that has lost the most players to the Boks.

  No, Fouche is not even Super Rugby quality I’m afraid.

• 111.capebull:
  5 Sep 2012, 16:18 pm

  @RL-77: Agreed ,furthermore to change 8,9 and 10 in one go is risky.

• 112.RL:
  5 Sep 2012, 16:19 pm

  @Heavens Game-102: I hope that Elton moves to the guppies – that will end the Lambie flyhalf experiment and will save us from hearing what a great and natural 10 he is from all there whinging guppies.

  I bet that Mr and Mrs Jantjies and Mr and Mrs Lambie did not know what Mr and Mrs Goose were doing 20 years ago.

• 113.capebull:
  5 Sep 2012, 16:19 pm

  Lambie played last year at 10 and we lost big time in Auz, o ja but those losses was WO fault

• 114.TooMuchRugby:
  5 Sep 2012, 16:20 pm

  @londonshark-110:
  Even if it was a watered down Currie Cup, it was still way more entertaining to watch than anything the Boks dished up lately.
  But I do agree with you, Fouche is one-dimensional like Steyn. Not the kind of player we need for the future.
  But it seems thats the kind of player Bakkies and his chronies like. What else should we expect from the Bullies

• 115.londonshark:
  5 Sep 2012, 16:20 pm

  @RL-112:

  Lol, here we go

  Lambie will be the Sharks 10 for many years to come.

  For Eltons sake, he needs to move to the Stormers (and for the Stormers sake too).

• 116.londonshark:
  5 Sep 2012, 16:21 pm

  @TooMuchRugby-114:

  Lol, I agree. The Currie Cup is at least good to watch.

• 117.londonshark:
  5 Sep 2012, 16:22 pm

  @capebull-113:

  So that’s one game. Morne is getting chance afer chance after chance. When will it end??

• 118.Heavens Game:
  5 Sep 2012, 16:22 pm

  I am starting to sneakily suspect that King Heyneke may not rate some players, not because they are bad players, but because they might not fit some sort of obsessive compulsive “netjies” picture of the player profile he would like in his “we are a family” type of team environment….

  This “we are a family” thing sounds great on a superficial level, but it is but a small spiderweb strand from a full blown fascist type of setup…

  Maybe Keegan Daniel, Kankowski, Lambie dont fit the picture because they are too soutie…

  Maybe Jantjies doesn’t because of his weird hairstyle – i.e. Creativity gone wrong… prone to subversive activities

  Maybe Brussouw doesn’t fit the picture because he asks too many questions and is a bit too much of a windgat Vrystaater… “schemes he’s too tough” of iets.

  Ridiculous suggestions…? Yeah, maybe… but not so far away in terms of absurdity as some of the illogical decisions Meyer is starting to make, and the utterances that are coming from his mouth..

  Quite frankly it is disappointing because I had high hopes for this fellah.

• 119.WP-Forever:
  5 Sep 2012, 16:23 pm

  @Heavens Game-118:

  Only now?

• 120.i_love_u_bakkiesbotha:
  5 Sep 2012, 16:24 pm

  @londonshark-110:
  fair enough only because he hasn’t had a good long run yet.
  watch this space same time next year.

• 121.Transformation:
  5 Sep 2012, 16:27 pm

  @i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-108: louis fouche is pants man, msteyn clone!

  Steyn says he arrived at the Bulls as a running flyhalf, but was sucked into their more conservative style of play, something he is trying to shrug off at the moment to become a more complete player.

  Morne said “I decided myself that it was something I wanted to do. I really didn’t have too much option in the past, and it was rather monotonous to play that way. I wanted to be able to move with the ball more, to run a bit flatter and I have started that. I feel it is one of the most important and correct decisions I’ve ever taken in my career.”

  Steyn knows all too well that Johan Goosen, the Bloemfontein wunderkid, is snapping at his heels. But he isn’t likely to give up his jersey too quickly.

  “I rate Johan – he’s a fantastic young player and really had an unbelievable first year. But he has time and he needs more experience. It is important not to throw him in at the deep end too early.”

• 122.Heavens Game:
  5 Sep 2012, 16:27 pm

  @RL-112: Dont be silly… Sharks are big enough for both Lambie and Jantjies especially with the length of rugger seasons and especially Super Rugby nowadays…

  Fark me, it will be schweet like a lemon if these two who are rated probably 4th and 5th in line for the Bok 10 slot become S15 champs next year… Over the darlings from North and South…

• 123.capebull:
  5 Sep 2012, 16:28 pm

  @londonshark-117: Goosen will take over soon , and Pollard will take over from him.

• 124.capebull:
  5 Sep 2012, 16:30 pm

  @Heavens Game-118: You said it “Ridiculous suggestions”

• 125.TooMuchRugby:
  5 Sep 2012, 16:32 pm

  @Heavens Game-118:
  HM actually hinted as this kind of prejudices when he was appointed already, speaking about how he values certain “personality traits” above natural talent and all that bull. I’ve seen right through it from the beginning, but was labelled a bigot for my suspicions, while the rest of you wankers were to busy drooling on his feet to take notice.

  This is now my time to say: “Ek het jou mos gese”

• 126.RL:
  5 Sep 2012, 16:32 pm

  @londonshark-115: if Elton moves to the guppies he replaces Lambie, if he moves to the Cape he replaces Grant – it is a fact of life. He only plays in one position and that is 10. So he will either push the Labster to 15 or he will push Grant to 12.

  Bet on it.

• 127.TooMuchRugby:
  5 Sep 2012, 16:34 pm

  @capebull-124: Is it difficult to breathe with your head in the sand?
  Or is it up HM’s ***?

• 128.WP-Forever:
  5 Sep 2012, 16:34 pm

  @TooMuchRugby-125:

  Heyneke Meyer prefers his team homogenous (just like Tacitus).

• 129.gunther:
  5 Sep 2012, 16:35 pm

  @TooMuchRugby-125:

  You are a bigot.

  As you were.

• 130.i_love_u_bakkiesbotha:
  5 Sep 2012, 16:36 pm

  @Transformation-121:
  you really ar being unfair on fouche, transie.

  what does he have to do with morne’s opinions on rugby or goosen.

• 131.Heavens Game:
  5 Sep 2012, 16:36 pm

  @WP-Forever-119: Why are you suddenly so farken clever… Heyneke vacuuming up all the WePee darlings to put next his Bulletjies… Boks are fast becoming North and South full of the “traditional strengths” of SA rugby, playing a brand of rugby nearly identical to Stormers in this years S15…

  Meanwhile Sharkies can just carry on quietly on top of the CC log and build towards winning S15 next year…

  This is back to the future… While the Boks go back to N Trvl/WP establishment – the real anti establishment team, the Sharks get back to their roots of playing Isak Van Heerden Total Rugby and win S15 next year… All while the Boks astound the world with Stormers style rugger played by Bulls, WP players, a few token Sharkies and one two tame Vrystaters…

• 132.Yetirat:
  5 Sep 2012, 16:37 pm

  @keo-7: Keo, Heyneke has stated previously that he doesn’t view Lambie as a 10 but rather a 15. You can’t really drop Morne to the bench and then go to Lambie who hasn’t played a full game at Flyhalf for the Boks and say listen we now want you to start, but we’re only placing enough faith in you for 60 mins and then we’re bringing SOMEONE ELSE on who we have long term plans for. You can’t churn through 3 flyhalves like that.

• 133.capebull:
  5 Sep 2012, 16:37 pm

  @TooMuchRugby-127: Relax , I did not say anything; @Heavens Game-118: You said it “Ridiculous suggestions” he did

• 134.Heavens Game:
  5 Sep 2012, 16:39 pm

  @capebull-124: Yup, like farken the ridiculous decisions being made and the flip flopping bulldust that is starting to become more common from the mouth of King Heyneke…

• 135.capebull:
  5 Sep 2012, 16:39 pm

  @Heavens Game-131<

• 136.Heavens Game:
  5 Sep 2012, 16:43 pm

  @TooMuchRugby-125: You said nothing… You have a dislike of Meyer, not for rugger reasons, but because of his Blue tinge from the beginning, like all good people from the South… Its nothing more than undisguised envy for people from the North and their relative success in rugby over the recent decade or two.
  But now you should be in 7th heaven where Heyneke uses a Stormers style game, copied from him in the first place, to go and conquer the world with his Heiliger Magtige Stormtroepies from the North and South.

• 137.Puma:
  5 Sep 2012, 16:43 pm

  @capebull-113: Have you lost your memory? Remember the 1st side Boks were all in Rustenburg training for the world cup. We went to Oz and Nz with a 2nd Bok side or more like a 3rd side. Don’t care which player started at flyhalf with those players against Oz and Nz, NONE would have not looked good.

• 138.Puma:
  5 Sep 2012, 16:44 pm

  @londonshark-115: Agree.

• 139.TooMuchRugby:
  5 Sep 2012, 16:45 pm

  @gunther-129:
  You’re posts are actually quite witty and original most of the time. This was not one of them.

• 140.gunther:
  5 Sep 2012, 16:47 pm

  @TooMuchRugby-139:

  No humour intended buddy.

• 141.mshiniwami:
  5 Sep 2012, 16:49 pm

  On missed opportunities

  Daniel Odongo is playing for NPC/ANZC table topping Counties after being shunted from pillar to post in SA.unhappy with his treatment @ Bulls & Sharks they Kenyan freak athlete was picked up by Tana Umaga’s Counties and playin immediately.none of the “refining bs” spoken of in SA as only way one learns is by PLAYING.Odongo has a wee bit to go as a player but he is a hit in NZ especially his potential.He sat on bench for varsity cup in SA and now playing in NZ premier competition.Watch NZ develop him into a world class player and will play superrugby next year

• 142.Puma:
  5 Sep 2012, 16:50 pm

  @Heavens Game-100: Lambie came on for a injured Zane in the first test against England in the 2nd half. Once Lambie and Ruan came on our game changed and that was the best the Boks played in that 2nd half and again in the 2nd test the first half was our best. That was with Lambie playing fb. He was superb in both games. Nothing wrong with Lambie’s game against England.

  In the Chiefs game Plum should have had Lambie come off the bench. He was not game fit at all. Had only 40min game time since he picked up the ankle injury against England.

• 143.TooMuchRugby:
  5 Sep 2012, 16:50 pm

  @Heavens Game-136:
  You must have misinterpreted me. The reason why I dislike HM is precisely because of his prejudices. Maybe it’s not a rugby reason, but it does impact on team selections.
  I also don’t appreciate the Stormers gameplan and I have stated before that I think the Stormers are an abomination. I’m a WP supporter.
  So we actually agree on the subject of HM’s stormtroepies.

• 144.Heavens Game:
  5 Sep 2012, 16:51 pm

  This netjies rugger all about “game plans”, “structure” and “traditional strengths” might just work…

  But fark me if it doesn’t and teams that evolve at the same playing a different style of rugger and become successful with Bok “discards”… its going to be embarrassing.

• 145.TooMuchRugby:
  5 Sep 2012, 16:52 pm

  @gunther-140: I’m laughing

• 146.capebull:
  5 Sep 2012, 16:53 pm

  @Puma-137: Ok so with that in mind we should bring back WO as well

• 147.Spiesisworthless1:
  5 Sep 2012, 16:55 pm

  At least Heyneke has two proven world class assistant coaches to turn to and refine his gameplan if things go pear shaped. Van Graan and Loubscher, beyooooooooooootifullll.

• 148.capebull:
  5 Sep 2012, 16:55 pm

  @mshiniwami-141: Agree on that one , I still wonder why that happened.

  He ‘s big fast

• 149.gunther:
  5 Sep 2012, 16:55 pm

  @TooMuchRugby-145:

  Yes but you’re crying inside my little plank.

• 150.TooMuchRugby:
  5 Sep 2012, 16:55 pm

  @mshiniwami-141:
  While I agree that Adongo was treated poorly by the Bulls, I must say that I watched him play the other day and you are correct…..He has a loooong way to go.

• 151.Heavens Game:
  5 Sep 2012, 16:55 pm

  @Puma-142: Yeah, he was good… but I still dont reckon at his best because he aggravated an ankle injury…

  At least with his bench time he must have recovered 100%

  I am excited for when he returns to play for the Sharks when Meyer probably decides that he does not fit…

  Its coming soon, I tell ya… Golden Goosen is now there… The writing is on the wall for Pat.

• 152.Jeraldjay:
  5 Sep 2012, 16:57 pm

  @gunther-140:
  Your man Robbie P’s is looking good.

  Somma a opening bowler.

• 153.gunther:
  5 Sep 2012, 16:59 pm

  @Jeraldjay-152:

  He’s awesome

• 154.Puma:
  5 Sep 2012, 16:59 pm

  @capebull-56: Lambie was our 1st choice fh at Sharks this year. He played more games there than at 15. Think it was because the season was so long that some has forgotten this. Lambie picked up a injury later and then Fred played there but once he was over that injury Lambie played fh again. Against the Chiefs at the Tank when we got back home and the Landers and Force then picked up flu when we were due to play Cheetahs and Fred took over at fh. Then the next week against the Stormers we needed to win that game so Plum needed to have both his play makers on so had Fred at 10 with Lambie at 15. Then Lambie picked up a injury playing for Boks against England. Then Fred played fh at Sharks. Fred only played there because mostly Lambie was injured.

  Another think no way was Lambie rubbish against England at 15. He was actually superb in both tests he played for Boks in the 2nd half of the first test when we played our best and again in the 2nd test in the first half when again we played great rugby. So Lambie can play great at fb just that he is a better fh.

• 155.Puma:
  5 Sep 2012, 17:01 pm

  @Puma-154: 2nd paragraph – think – thing

• 156.Puma:
  5 Sep 2012, 17:03 pm

  @Heavens Game-151: Well one thing he was way better than Zane he had a great game in both tests at 15. Only he is better at fh which is his preferred position.

  Yes he will be our 1st choice fh again next year. Can’t wait to see that backline you mentioned in a earlier post.

• 157.Transformation:
  5 Sep 2012, 17:04 pm

  @i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-130: the root of all this nonsense is heyneke chief!

  ‘I can improve a lot as an attacking flyhalf,’ Steyn said, before theorising about the root of his struggles. ‘When I arrived at the Bulls in 2003 I was more of an attacking flyhalf, but coach Heyneke Meyer explained to me that if I wanted to take the step up I needed to improve my tactical kicking game.

  ‘It’s the kicking that’s doing the job at the moment. The Bulls and Boks play more of a kicking than running game, so it required me to adjust accordingly. But having said that, my running game has suffered as a result. I know I have to grow that area of my game.’

  Steyn was confident that he, and by extension the collective, would become more potent as their synergy and cohesion improved. He agreed that the World Cup success of 2007 featured panache as much as it did pragmatism in an attacking sense, but stressed that it has become a significantly more difficult to score tries this time around.

  ‘You have to consider that every team in the tournament has improved defensively, particularly in their gainline contest. That demands that teams have a good kicking strategy. That’s not to say there mustn’t be variation,’ he said.

• 158.Puma:
  5 Sep 2012, 17:04 pm

  @Heavens Game-151: With all the bench sitting that ankle must have healed 100% by now………hahaha. Jeez feel for players that get messed about.

  Okay out of here for now. Catch up later.

• 159.RAI8:
  5 Sep 2012, 17:15 pm

  Imagine SA’s cricket team if we had all our SA-born players that are in England’s side. That said, our rugby would be potent if all those blokes playing abroad would stay in SA and play domestic rugby, however, money talks.

• 160.Heavens Game:
  5 Sep 2012, 17:17 pm

  @Puma-156: Look, as much as I dont think Zane is a great Full back, he has done nothing much too wrong… Not to say he had done nothing much right either – certainly no match winning performances like Israel Dagg… Zane is middle to good maybe just under good as an International 15…

  Lambie has been very good at 15 for the Boks, especially in the RWC, and not too bad vs England… But he will never be a great 15 like Jouba.

  I doubt he will have the opportunity this year at 10 for the Boks… But if he knuckles down at 10 in the CC this year, and S15 next year then it could be very embarrassing to leave him out by that time, especially if he spearheads a Sharks win in both comps…

• 161.RAI8:
  5 Sep 2012, 17:26 pm

  Disappointed about Siya Kholisi’s injury, I think he would actually have more of an impact than what Marcell Coetzee has. Marcell is a good, young player, but Kholisi is more of an impact player and someone we could use off the bench if we started with Flouw instead of Marcell. Also, if we want Lambie at 15, why don’t we start him in these games and groom him into the perfect 15, and drop Zane to the bench, or out completely?

• 162.Spiesisworthless1:
  5 Sep 2012, 17:26 pm

  @Heavens Game-160: It’s a golden era of fullbacks at the moment though. Kearney, Dagg, Beale, Halfpenny, Foden. So many great, match winning fullbacks running around and we have to settle for the most mediocre, middle of the road fullback imaginable.

• 163.nama1:
  5 Sep 2012, 17:28 pm

  @Heavens Game-100:
  “While the Boks are only moderately successful with a win % of 60% by that time, playing a dour game with majority Bulls and Stormers darlings….”

  What happened to the BullSharkBoks???

  The blue, black and green DYNAMITE!!!

  BOOM!!!

  

  @londonshark-109:
  It is exactly BECAUSE of his time with the Lions that we know how good he is. Any back line player, let alone flyhalf, who can perform as well as he does consistently (bar the odd off day), behind the pack that the Lions have must be very good.

  Just imagine for a minute Morne Steyn playing for the Lions behind that pack. He would not have been close to be a Bok.

  Why does he need to play for another franchise for his talents to be recognize?

  Jantjies has shown throughout the season how good he actually is. Definitely better than Morne and Lambie.

• 164.papaown:
  5 Sep 2012, 17:30 pm

  @Heavens Game-160: thanks for that. The vitriol being spewed@ Zane is uncalled especially since he hasn’t done anything wrong.

  He’s no Dagg for sure but Lambie@15 for Sharks was consistently undercooked, infact his performances@15 were shoddy to say the least.

  He was devastating@10 though,I must admit!

• 165.Heavens Game:
  5 Sep 2012, 17:31 pm

  @Spiesisworthless1-162: I tell you who could have been a great FB for the Boks, and that is Aplon… But by goodness, Stormers with their style of play, and the fact they kept swapping him with Joe Pietersen have farked his career up no end… Similarly for JdJ and how he’s had to make way for Jean De Villiers…

• 166.RAI8:
  5 Sep 2012, 17:33 pm

  @londonshark yes Jantjies is very good, and has improved so much since he started, but I don’t think he has the maturity of a player like Goosen or Lambie or Morne in a tight Test match where crucial decision-making is crucial.

• 167.nama1:
  5 Sep 2012, 17:37 pm

  @RAI8-159:
  Who would you drop for the players in the England setup?

• 168.papaown:
  5 Sep 2012, 17:37 pm

  @nama1-163: Couldn’t agree more about Jantjies!

  I’ve heard a lot of cr.ap excuses over the years about how eg. A MS poor game can be excused because of a lack of dominance from a forward pack

  Yet we have a player who has consistently defied that thinking. Look he’s not Dan Carter, just saying he deserves more recognition than he currently gets!

• 169.papaown:
  5 Sep 2012, 17:41 pm

  @RAI8-166: That’s garbage man!

  Jantjies has outplayed Lambie 5 times out of their last 6 encounters!

  Goosen has barely featured in enough S15 rugby games to have any confidence in his maturity for tight games.

  As for MS, he’s shown mental aptitude in tight games in his debut season but his last 2 seasons has shown a fragility unappreciated by those who excuse his performances for the dominance of the pack or type of scrummy he plays with…which is ridiculous!

• 170.Heavens Game:
  5 Sep 2012, 17:41 pm

  @papaown-164: Lambie at 15 for the Sharks undercooked? You mean the final, yeah? Chrissakes, I already written a thread about Lambie and his injury…

  Sheezus, I’m actually beginning to think some of you okes on the same stupid juice as Bok coaches seem to drink… Maybe that apple flavoured “Our Blood is Green” Energade stuff is not good for you…

  Maybe you must limit yourself when you drink that stuff because I tell you what… you okes keep Morne Steyn and Golden Goosen in the Boks and the meanwhile Sharks will welcome back Lambie for CC and S15 next year…

  When Sharks win CC this year and S15 next year with Lambie at 10, I will remind okes how “average” or “shoddy” a player they thought he was…

  It seems chaps have short memories because Lambie’s season at 10 in 2011 was outstanding. This year has been a farkup through injury and this sudden requirement for him to boot a ball 60m + just to be considered as Bok 10 when his accurate 45m – 50m kicks were just fine along with his very good advantage line direct play and excellent distribution….

• 171.Robzim:
  5 Sep 2012, 17:42 pm

  @Spiesisworthless1-162:

  The last real good fullback we had was probably Joubert and before him Gysie Pienaar – before him we probably had to go back to HO de Villiers in the seventies who was perhaps the best of them all.

• 172.RAI8:
  5 Sep 2012, 17:43 pm

  I’d drop Strauss and bring in Schalk Britz, put Etzebeth on the bench and start Bakkies, and bring back Big Joe as utility forward to cover 6, 7 or 8. Those are just 3 guys off the top of my head, but there are more guys there that are off the radar and could add a lot of potency to our domestic sides.

• 173.Heavens Game:
  5 Sep 2012, 17:49 pm

  @nama1-163: Ja, Nama, the dream is cracking up fast…

  But then again Im happy in a way… Sharks as the anti-establishment team is always a good fit… Like they were in 1990, when they werent ever supposed to win CC in another 100 yrs, and like they were in Tommy Bedfords era – giving a big up yours to the Stormtroepies from the North and South…

  Naah, Im happy… Win win for me…

  I still have hope that Heyneke will get the Boks going though, but at this netjies se rate I may not have that “my blood is green” feeling to the same extent as I have had in the past… Maybe its time for a Sharks rebel yell against the North South “traditional” establishment again…

  Just like the Last Outpost old days

  

• 174.Transformation:
  5 Sep 2012, 17:49 pm

  @nama1-163: heyneke dared to drop the “christian cullen of loosies” & pick “fat spermwhale” vermuelen against all guppy wisdom…

  what more does heyneke have to do the BENCH lambie for 2 games to show the guppys he does NOT rate their boy wonder AT ALL? now he has fasttracked goosen… yho!

• 175.nama1:
  5 Sep 2012, 17:56 pm

  @papaown-168:
  These guys are not honest.

  @Robzim-171:
  Johan Heunis was not too shabby.

  Gysie only had about 3 good test matches before Heunis replaced him, remember? He lost his adventurous nature when playing for the Boks after the Bill Beaumont Lions series.

• 176.Heavens Game:
  5 Sep 2012, 18:01 pm

  @Transformation-174: Ag, Transie, you such a flip flopping “expert”… from Sharkworld nogal… that you don’t even know which side of any line you even stand any more…

  Contrary to what you try so hard to portray – I actually understand why Meyer gooi’d Keegan… Heck, most coaches in SA wouldn’t know how to fit Keegan in their team… Can you imagine AC or Solomons playing Keegan? Farkoff if your reply is afirmative because you would be talking out of your lying, fantasising shangaan dutpipe.

  Just another thing… since you seem to be resident expert on game plans, could you possibly copy and paste a proper game plan from somewhere or possibly explain what a game plan is?

  (I suspect however this might be as definitive an explanation as you had on “Transformation” when I asked you about that… )

• 177.nama1:
  5 Sep 2012, 18:02 pm

  @Heavens Game-173:
  That was an impossible dream, HG.

  @Transformation-174:
  

  Reality can be such a female dog sometimes.

• 178.Robzim:
  5 Sep 2012, 18:02 pm

  @Heavens Game-173:

  The bad news for you is that the Sharks are no longer the anti-establishment team that they certainly were in the days of bedford etc. Perhaps you must blame it on the influx of the Free Staters- they were never the type who liked to rebel or who brought “romance” to the party but they brought you some silverware.

  These farkin trade-offs

• 179.RAI8:
  5 Sep 2012, 18:03 pm

  @ papaown, I agree MS has been out of form, and a scrummy and pack of forwards cannot be blamed, I still believe Goosen is the guy we need, he has shown what it takes to out play the best of the best, and Jantjies (in my opinion) does not have the level-head of Johan Goosen. Jantjies has a tendancy of doing stupid things like trying to chip the ball over the defencive line, only to kick it into the opposition ‘s hands. Goosen has a great attacking game as well as defence and tactical kicking too, and I wont even mention his goal kicking abilities, because his stats speak the loudest.

• 180.Heavens Game:
  5 Sep 2012, 18:05 pm

  @nama1-175: Yup… Heunis was the chap I was trying to recall… A bit of a kenner, this Richtersveld brannewyn sluiper, after all…

• 181.Robzim:
  5 Sep 2012, 18:05 pm

  @nama1-175:

  Ja, I forgot about Heunis, he was not shabby at all. Dawie Snyman was also not bad– Monty had huge talent but they coached him into becoming a safety first type of player.

• 182.londonshark:
  5 Sep 2012, 18:07 pm

  @nama1-163:

  Ja look, I also thought about that.

  But it’s sometimes the opposite. Elton looks good in a team of rubbishes, because he’s bloody good compared to many of his team mates. The Lions pack usually held their own too.

  The Lions team also broke the game up, which allowed Elton to show some skills (like how Bosman always looked good at the Cheetahs).

  I think we need to see Elton in a structured, balanced team to see if he’s up to it.

• 183.RAI8:
  5 Sep 2012, 18:09 pm

  Well said londonshark

• 184.londonshark:
  5 Sep 2012, 18:10 pm

  @papaown-169:

  Really, please list all 6 games and your stats that show Lambie being outplayed (in 5 of those games).

• 185.Heavens Game:
  5 Sep 2012, 18:10 pm

  @Robzim-178: Of course they are… Sharks are the go to destination for, heaven forbid, all sorts of Frenchies, Kiwis, Aussies, Scots, Poms, Argies and other makwerewere… Its a melting pot of ideas… And the Vrystaters have always been a bit of an anti-establishment type Boer as compared to those van die Ou Transvaal and the poncy holier than thou verligtes from Stellies and other parts of the Cape…

  Come now, Natal Sharks have always been anti-establishment… and always will be… From the playing field to the boardroom…

• 186.nama1:
  5 Sep 2012, 18:12 pm

  @Heavens Game-180:
  “sluiper”…you making me sound like a serial killer here HG.

  FYI, I’m a Namaqualander not a Richtersvelder, although I’m very fond of that area.

• 187.gunther:
  5 Sep 2012, 18:16 pm

  Suiper surely?

  

• 188.Heavens Game:
  5 Sep 2012, 18:17 pm

  @londonshark-182: Elton in Black and White will be farken excellent… Him and Lambie can drive eachother onward and upward at a rate of knots next year…

  I hope Rudi Straeuli signs him and Cilliers as per some rumours… Will only be good for the Sharks, for himself and for Lambie… Especially with the length of season and attrition next year… A team with a couple of top class 10′s will have an advantage…

• 189.Heavens Game:
  5 Sep 2012, 18:20 pm

  @nama1-186: Ja, ja okay… My Voortrekker code is a bit rusty…

  But Nama, I reckon you fit the profile… Farken Keo’s very own Dexter..

• 190.nama1:
  5 Sep 2012, 18:23 pm

  @londonshark-182:
  You could’ve spoken about Goosen in the Cheetah team except for the “team of rubbishes” part.

  What are the odds that Goosen will fulfill his promise in a more structured team than the Cheetahs? Isn’t it because both of them play in the environment they currently do is what allow them to showcase their true talent? There is nowhere to hide behind a dominant pack of forwards or “structure” associated with teams like the Bulls, the Boks and the Stormers the last two years.

  No man, people trying to highlight supposed weaknesses of Jantjies while at the same time only concentrate on the strengths of the Goosens and Lambies without ever indicating weaknesses on their part, are not truly honest imo.

  How would you rate Goosens defense?

• 191.Heavens Game:
  5 Sep 2012, 18:28 pm

  @nama1-190: I tell you one thing for certain… Both Jantjies and Lambie are better tacklers than both Golden Goosen and Morne Steyn…

  That said, Morne has had a bit of a bumrap with regards to D and has in fact taken the blame for the defensive deficiencies of De Villiers more often than not, especially last year.

• 192.Robzim:
  5 Sep 2012, 18:28 pm

  @Heavens Game-185:

  If you do not like the blokes from Stellies please send JP Pietersen back to where he belongs. Kabous was also from Stellies and you guys seemed to like him a lot… even ignoring the fact that he was the most wanabe surfer ever – always a board on the roof of his car but never to be found in the water.

  Ps… seeing that we are on the subject plse send capey Pieter S du Toit back as well- he will never fit in there on the longer term amongst the anti-establishment – he is even more of a bo erseun than Bismark. Only english he knows is “Jis” and “no” and “thenk jhoe”.

• 193.nama1:
  5 Sep 2012, 18:30 pm

  @gunther-187:
  I just “kuier” Gunther.

  That’s what it is called in your world, isn’t it? As in, “Vokkit, ons het darem gisteraand lekker gevokken kuier.”

• 194.Heavens Game:
  5 Sep 2012, 18:35 pm

  @Robzim-192: No… Fark you… Once a Shark always a Shark…

  When they old and grey, maybe… Then we send them off to you like Tricky Dicky and Joel “Nasal” Stransky…

  JPP is a Shark legend now… Every bit of Stellies blood been washed out, cleansed and replaced with nothing more than Black and White liquid dynamite… Same with Pieter Steph in years to come.

  While Sharks are busy being enlightened rebels, you fools can go back to the “Traditional” North-South “strengths” of SA rugby and be comfortable in it…

• 195.nama1:
  5 Sep 2012, 18:36 pm

  @Robzim-192:
  “thenk jhoe”.

  

• 196.Robzim:
  5 Sep 2012, 18:38 pm

  @nama1-193:

  Ons het so hard gekuier en party het hoog gesuip geraak en loop nou met ‘n dik vokken babalaas

• 197.Hondo:
  5 Sep 2012, 18:43 pm

  @Heavens Game-165:
  Thought the issue was concluded 2 weeks ago when Josh Strauss ran 3 times through him as if it was just a thin air

• 198.Heavens Game:
  5 Sep 2012, 18:43 pm

  @Robzim-192: And btw we liked Cabous because he was ironic… I reckon that oke couldn’t take himself seriously if he tried… Naah, Cabous could never have come from Stellies… The complete antithesis…

• 199.gunther:
  5 Sep 2012, 18:44 pm

  @nama1-193:

  Nope I get gesuip.

  Nice try though.

  

• 200.Robzim:
  5 Sep 2012, 18:45 pm

  @Heavens Game-194:

  Don’t talk like that about Joel. He is won a world cup for you, he embraced the cape lifestyle and he has completed a few Cape Epic’s . Not too shabby. Hard to believe he is originally from the last outpost. Pity AJ Venter went back to Natal, he fitted in very well down south too. He even admitted on national TV the other day that he still loves the Stormers- now there is a legend who also saw the light

• 201.Heavens Game:
  5 Sep 2012, 18:45 pm

  @Hondo-197: Hondo, you farken nutter

• 202.Heavens Game:
  5 Sep 2012, 18:49 pm

  @Robzim-200: Nasal Stransky went all poncy after farking around with Leicester Tigers for too long… After that, the only place for him was WePee… He fit right it by all accounts…

  AJ Venter is your standard!?!? WTF?

  BWAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAHHAAAAAHHAAAAA

• 203.xtremebull:
  5 Sep 2012, 18:51 pm

  9-Hougaard/10-goosen/15-lambie
  9-Hougaard/10-lambie/15-taute

  Better then 9-pienaar /10-steyn /15-kirchner

• 204.Heavens Game:
  5 Sep 2012, 18:51 pm

  @Heavens Game-202: correction – Fit right in

• 205.gunther:
  5 Sep 2012, 18:52 pm

  AJ “Fabio” Venter?

  

• 206.cab:
  5 Sep 2012, 18:54 pm

  AJ Venter is a legend – should won more Bokke caps, just unfortunate with his timing.

• 207.londonshark:
  5 Sep 2012, 18:57 pm

  @nama1-190:

  No look, I’m not comparing anyone to Goosen. He’s a freak, with more talent than Lambie and Elton combined. But I see your point. I might be waaay of, and Elton has done the impossible and done well in a kak team. I never pointed out any weaknesses of Elton by the way

  Do I believe Elton would be better at the Sharks (for example) than at the Lions, yep. Do I believe he’s better than Lambie, no I don’t.

  I’ve seen more of Lambie in the past 3 years to convince me he’s the real deal.

  Either way, he MUST got to the Stormers next year, then he can show us if he’s the real deal (and not another Meyer Bosman or Sias).

• 208.Robzim:
  5 Sep 2012, 18:57 pm

  @Heavens Game-202:

  What s wrong with Fabio (according to Gunther).
  He picked that “dress sense ” up in Italy
  Now there is a true hard man of SA rugby
  And have you seen his wife? – a 10/10- not only in looks but also a legend from the Durban surf lifesaving fraternity.

• 209.cab:
  5 Sep 2012, 18:59 pm

  janee that KFC suit is one mutha of a fashion fkup – but legendary player.

• 210.nama1:
  5 Sep 2012, 19:17 pm

  @Robzim-208:
  He was actually taught his dress sense by one Christian Stewart.

  They shared a place while playing in Italy. AJ one day was on his way out to the shops in his shorts, sweater and flip-flops. When Stewart saw it, he stopped him and promptly took him shopping for clothes. He made him swear to never leave the place without being properly dressed.

  Ever since then, AJ loves dressing nice.

• 211.Jeraldjay:
  5 Sep 2012, 19:21 pm

  Fark the Protea’s up to the!r old tr!cks aga!n.

• 212.nama1:
  5 Sep 2012, 19:27 pm

  Damn fkin Proteas.

  Level the bloody series.

• 213.KeurboomPark:
  5 Sep 2012, 20:07 pm

  @xtremebull-203:

  bedonnerd. i likes your second string choice. uitstekend.

• 214.KeurboomPark:
  5 Sep 2012, 20:08 pm

  @Heavens Game-201:

  Hoesit, Pielneus?

• 215.nama1:
  5 Sep 2012, 20:09 pm

  Come on AB. Time to play a captain’s innings and take your team to victory.

  GO, boytjie.

• 216.nama1:
  5 Sep 2012, 20:15 pm

  @KeurboomPark-214:
  That was the name of an Afrikaans teacher when I was at school.

  Are you saying that HG is that guy?

  

• 217.KeurboomPark:
  5 Sep 2012, 20:17 pm

  Klap it, Hashim!!!

• 218.KeurboomPark:
  5 Sep 2012, 20:19 pm

  @nama1-216:

  

  I also had a teacher called BokDrol

• 219.nama1:
  5 Sep 2012, 20:42 pm

  @KeurboomPark-218:
  Sounds like a woodwork teacher.

• 220.katman:
  5 Sep 2012, 20:43 pm

  Hashimbonanga!

• 221.KeurboomPark:
  5 Sep 2012, 20:44 pm

  @nama1-219:

  He WAS!!!!!! Always had a stain on his pants near his arse. Landsdowne High.

• 222.katman:
  5 Sep 2012, 21:01 pm

  Hashim and AB making this look dead easy now. Apart from that close run-out call.

• 223.katman:
  5 Sep 2012, 21:07 pm

  Our school’s woodwork teacher went by the nickname of Boer, and wore dark green polyester trousers, grasshopper shoes and fake leather hip-length jackets. He had a 2 digit IQ and his only notable contribution to the school was busting smoking boys and catching truants during school break down at Emerentia dam. He fcken loved dishing out corporal punishment. Next to his fake leather jacket, it was his best thing ever.

• 224.RAI8:
  5 Sep 2012, 21:08 pm

  Hashim has saved our arses too often! Absolute class!

• 225.Transformation:
  5 Sep 2012, 21:23 pm

  these Poms will never forget Hashim’s name!

  james anderson waking up in cold sweats petrified…

• 226.katman:
  5 Sep 2012, 21:24 pm

  @Transformation-225: I don’t think there’s a bowler in the world who wants to face him now.

• 227.I am a stormer:
  5 Sep 2012, 21:27 pm

  @Transformation-225:

  And the next Pom captain will dread it if the Proteas pitch up with Graeme Smith as captain.

  He has forced 3 of them in retirement immediately after a tour.

  But you’re right. Hash is the man of the moment. Long may it last.

• 228.PissAnt:
  5 Sep 2012, 21:30 pm

  There was an opportunity missed Keo.

  An opportunity to see how Elton Jantjies would have shaped against the best in the world at test level.

• 229.garth:
  5 Sep 2012, 21:51 pm

  Too conservative. Too slow. Sounds like what we have been saying all along. Why should the Bok coach be given 6 months to learn what mere mortal couch coaches new ages ago. In the case of Spies, he has been k@k for years and HM is still too thick to pick up on that. WTF is HM still there?

• 230.londonshark:
  5 Sep 2012, 22:04 pm

  @PissAnt-228:

  Wrong match to blood Elton. If he is going to be a Bok (and I still have my doubts), he needs make his debut at home. If he was going to play, it should have been against the Poms. Not against a desperate Aus in Aus.

• 231.Transformation:
  5 Sep 2012, 22:05 pm

  @katman-226: @I am a stormer-227:who are we playing next, aussies?

  the test series was outstanding and memorable…

  more,more!

• 232.RAI8:
  5 Sep 2012, 22:20 pm

  Aussies up next for the Proteas. T20 World Cup is just around the corner too!

• 233.fantasticbarnsmell:
  5 Sep 2012, 23:06 pm

  Keo is right about everything, selections and outcome. good grief…

• 234.fantasticbarnsmell:
  5 Sep 2012, 23:09 pm

  @PissAnt-228: I agree and I mentioned this earlier, if there was ever a time to play Jantjies this was it.

• 235.brains_trust:
  6 Sep 2012, 01:18 am

  I wish the Goose was not on tour, it is too soon, he sld be playing CC and can debut off the wood on the eoyt. Lambie, Ruan and Elton provide enough FH cover!

• 236.thesaint:
  6 Sep 2012, 06:49 am

  @xtremebull-203: Hougaard is, and will never be good enough at No. 9, he was wrongly picked there from the start, I think the Bulls might have some trouble at 9, because the current CC scrummies, are also not really lighting up the competition…

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