Meyer must make most of lost cause
11 Sep 2012
JON CARDINELLI writes a depleted Springbok side cannot be expected to win in Dunedin and yet there’s still much to be gained in terms of developing a new starting flyhalf.
The unavailability of key forwards as well as the inexperience of the likely starters and combinations suggests that Saturday’s Test will be more about damage control than anything else.
Last week’s forward performance against Australia was poor, and there’s little chance that this week’s showing will be much improved.
How can there be any expectation of a better performance in Dunedin? Injuries and suspensions have hit the Boks hard this week, and the pack that starts at the Forsyth Barr Stadium won’t boast one established Test combination.
But let’s back up a bit and consider what Heyneke Meyer had to work with at the start of the season.
Victor Matfield and Bakkies Botha were not available, and neither was jack of all trades Danie Rossouw. Andries Bekker was injured. Schalk Burger was crocked. Juan Smith had made a decision to give rugby a break for a year. It wasn’t an ideal situation to start with, and has got worse as the season has progressed.
Bismarck du Plessis has been the biggest loss in recent weeks. Other players that have been injured include Coenie Oosthuizen, Pierre Spies, and Chiliboy Ralepelle while Ryan Kankowski has moved to Japan. The unavailability of this latter group has been a blow to the Boks’ forward depth.
Then Eben Etzebeth went and got himself suspended with a mindless headbutt on Nathan Sharpe. Then Jannie du Plessis and Pat Cilliers succumbed to injuries in the most recent Test in Perth. Going into this week’s clash in Dunedin, the Boks will be wanting for quality, synergy and experience in that starting pack.
In the past, there have been strong teams that have gone to New Zealand and been soundly beaten. What hope does this side have of succeeding where superior sides have failed?
A new front-row combination will start due to Jannie du Plessis’s injury, and Etzebeth’s suspension will also see a new face starting at lock.
Francois Louw is likely to start at openside flank given the challenge of the All Blacks’ loose forwards, but that would see Meyer making a further change to the starting pack. And while I believe Louw can be highly effective in this role, he is only into his second week playing under Meyer and the new structures. Don’t expect miracles from a new-look tight five, and don’t expect dominance from men like Louw at the breakdown.
It’s at times like these when some coaches will look to retain as many fit players as possible so as not to disrupt the team dynamic any further. It’s been reported that Meyer will stick with the backline that started against the Wallabies last week. That would be a mistake.
What can Meyer gain from such selections? The changes up front will compromise the Boks’ potential to play a more balanced game, and I’m sure they’ll keep things as simple as possible. However, it would be interesting to see how a new flyhalf performs. It’s a game the Boks are unlikely to win, and this may ease the pressure on less established flyhalf options like Pat Lambie and Johan Goosen.
Lambie shone in last year’s Tri-Nations when he started at flyhalf against the All Blacks in Wellington. A rag-tag bunch of forwards were soundly beaten by their New Zealand counterparts, and still Lambie managed to impress.
Meyer sees Lambie as a fullback but it’s at flyhalf where he can provide the Boks with more options in terms of attack and defence. He’s played there for the Sharks this season with some success, exhibiting a skill set that includes taking the ball to the gainline, sending it through the hands when the wide strike is on, and playing his team into good field positions via a great tactical boot.
Goosen showed the same all-round skills when he featured for the Cheetahs in Super Rugby, and has been tipped as the future Bok flyhalf. Meyer could make a powerful statement by starting Goosen this Saturday, but if he truly believes that the experience would do the 20-year-old more harm than good, then Lambie should wear the No 10 jersey.
The Boks will struggle to keep the All Blacks at bay, but that doesn’t mean that nothing can be gained from the fixture. Changes need to made, and replacing flyhalf Morné Steyn with somebody more equipped to meet the demands of a modern day 10 is a step that needs to be taken sooner rather than later.
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229 Comments
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11 Sep 2012, 10:10 am
@Transformation-93:
As a Kiwi that wants to win the next game. I think Bakkies is right on it here. Keep Morne.
Bakkies knows best
11 Sep 2012, 10:10 am
@sparticus-91:
So true, every word!
The excuses just dont really add up anymore. Steyn’s kicking was always a life saver, but if a better rounded player like Jantjies kicks just as well, then why ignore him?
And how does your ‘experience’ help the team when you play poorly?
Good point you have with JDV. He’s just not cutting it and what an important position when you want to attack. How long does guys who are playing brilliant rugby on the highest level (super rugby) have to wait until they get a chance?
Steyn and Jordaan are going to be the Sharks’ center combination. It would make sense to pick them or JDV 12 and JDJ 13 who are an established combination… This selection needs a lot more criticism. But id go with Steyn and Jordaan, they are young and could be the future.
Ug and picking Bakkies when you could have gone with any other player. Like Mostert, Bresler or even play Alberts to name a few. Botha will not play for another year, so why bother?
11 Sep 2012, 10:13 am
@John Galt-99:
like i said, edrich lubbe had a long and distinguished career at griekwas.
there are many tales of his legendary exploits in the cc.
the same can be said for mvovo, who will be remembered for his footwork in super rugby. its the step up to a bok jersey that is the making or breaking of a man.
i may be wrong, but i saw fear in his face in the two worst of his three or four glaring mistakes.
11 Sep 2012, 10:13 am
@Jeraldjay-96: Actually I think it was Solly , Mallet and Meyer as a combo. Meyer is a very useful forwards coach. Not sure yet if he is capable as head coach , time will tell.
11 Sep 2012, 10:13 am
@Manona-43: Well said. Agreed 100 %, the 2012 AB’s have their own weaknesses that can be exposed by team that plays with a bit of belief (like the Argies did). The Boks kick & chase gameplan is a direct manifestation of Meyer’s crippling fear of the opposition. He was worrying too much about what the (pretty awful) Australian side could do to us over the weekend rather than what we could do to them. His doubts filtered down to the rest of the Boks and we saw most of them just going through the motions when the Australians were 100 % ripe for the picking. Expecting more damage control and kick and hope from Meyer this weekend, All Blacks by 15, it could take a while before Meyer learns how to lift his leg and pi ss with the big dogs.
11 Sep 2012, 10:14 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-98: “in morne’s case its a question of ‘well who do we replace him with?’
see… not so easy is it”
RUBBISH…jantjies and lambie would’ve been more than adequate to play ARGENTINA ffs… keep making excuse for jou doring morne he will be the albatross on the coach…
he is s.hit, period.
11 Sep 2012, 10:15 am
@Rhys7-94:
I must say team wish list are posted on the site, ad nauseam but I always make an effort in checking out your team.
Once again it covers all bases.
11 Sep 2012, 10:16 am
@Jeez-102: Jaa I would also pick Alberts at lock and fly Daniels over for loosie. Marcel , Daniels and Franscois Louw would be a capable combo I feel. Experience , size (the obsession) , youth and a very hard edge.
11 Sep 2012, 10:17 am
@Transformation-100:
absolutely mystifying really.
why?
why?
gurthro would work franks over. franks would resort to cheap shot dirty moves for sure.
11 Sep 2012, 10:21 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-98: @i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-98: “if our kicker is poor we lose, end off.”
because of our stubborn coach, when our one-dimensional “i can only kick flyhalf” is clearly s.hit our coach doesn’t drop him to play other well rounded FH who can also by the way kick… morne is being mollycoddled back to form because meyer has favourites, you hear it in kak talk like “Listen, Morne is a warrior, he is mentally tough, he very hard working, he is just not striking the ball well” pffft
let him go get his ball striking confidence in currie cup not against the ABs…
it is favouritism!
11 Sep 2012, 10:21 am
@Transformation-106:
but transie, you know the coach rates patrick as a fb and elton is not even on the radar. i think the reasoning is he wont be able to adapt to the style of rugby meyer wants.
besides, he’s not much of an improvement on morne in any case whereas goosen is.
11 Sep 2012, 10:22 am
@Hurricane-101: jeez i don’t think i can take watching that game with rossoneri while cruden and barritt are making msteyn look like the punk he is.
11 Sep 2012, 10:23 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-109:
Blah Blah Blah.
Mind you something needs to be done. Boks forwards were man handled by the Ozzies
11 Sep 2012, 10:24 am
My biggest bug bear is that their is no spirit for adventure and endeavour. If you know that you are sending a weaker team then just try to be innovative and hit the All blacks hard with playing an attacking brand of rugby. Instead of trying to beat them upfront, beat them in the loose forwards and the backs. It is simple, pick a team that can spread the ball but that can also play the man into space. Keep the ball away from the all blacks tight 5 and don’t kick the ball onto their back three. Don’t be afraid to kick for touch either. Counter them on their line out.
11 Sep 2012, 10:24 am
The Bokke will put up a good fight but we are capable of scoring 3 tries in the last 10 mins against all teams, can’t see this inexperienced Bokke side holding on for the full 80
11 Sep 2012, 10:25 am
Are the stats correct from last game?
It says the Ozzies kicked more than the Boks.
11 Sep 2012, 10:25 am
Players available:
1. Beast (needs to get his form back and probably needs a break)
2. Strauss (id pick Chilli, how long ’til he gets back? He secures the ruck better than most hookers and is like Bis a great scavanger…plays more to the ground)
3. Vdr Linde (who else?)
4. Alberts/ Mostert/ Bresler
5.Kruger/bekker
6. Brussouw/ Flo
7. Coetzee
8. Vermeulen
9. Pienaar
10. Jantjeis/ Goosen
11. Aplon
12. Steyn/jdv
13. Jordaan/Jdj
14. Mvovo
15. Lambie/steyn
Strauss as captain
11 Sep 2012, 10:27 am
Bakkies Guthro can’t make the starting 15 in France, there is way too much if this player was there we’d do this, if that player was there he’d do that blah blah farking blah keep it real for once
11 Sep 2012, 10:27 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-98:
@Transformation-93:
in morne’s case its a question of ‘well who do we replace him with?’
see… not so easy is it…
Janjies
Lambie
Heck if its just to kick goals then Peter Grant as he has a better record anyways and Steyn is there for the longer kicks.
11 Sep 2012, 10:28 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-111: no point in talking about this further with you, you drank the meyer kool-aid and bathe in it like those marikana miners…
11 Sep 2012, 10:33 am
@Transformation-120:
lol
Yep Bakkies is in love with Morne as well. You cant take Morne off.
11 Sep 2012, 10:35 am
@Hurricane-116: they did, but they were not hoists but grubbers by either the 12 or 10 after 4 phases…
from the feed we got, right after halftime rod kafer spoke to deans who said *clearly irritated* “if we can stop the aimless dribbling kicks, then maybe we can put some pressure on them and maybe force an outcome”
and voila the wallabies rallied from 13 – 3 to 19 – 26
11 Sep 2012, 10:35 am
Manona #42 – PHew. Your comments are greatly accepted. You are very correct in your comment, however the South Africans place too much emphasis on experience etc instead of allowing a youngen to let rip!!
The Boks probably do have the players right now in their squad to run the ABs close but our game plan stinks.
I remember the French sent a C team to NZeland in 2001(Can;t remember), 15 minutes left and the ABs had pretty much sowed the game up, however someone forgot to tell this plucky French team and they upped the ante and scored a few tries, they didn’t win but still put this ***** up the ABs!
So your are right a French C team was able to get stuck into the ABs but the Boks seem scared.
11 Sep 2012, 10:35 am
I have a couple of questions.Hopefully this provokes more thought.
What are the Boks’ chance of beating the AB’s with Morne?
What are the chances of the Boks beating the AB’s with Lambie?
What are thew chances of the Boks beating the AB’s with Goosen?
Who would the AB’s least prefer to play against?
11 Sep 2012, 10:39 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-103: bakkies Mvovo is not doing a lubbe on himself it is more like a Hargreaves. Now Hargreaves will not be remembered for being bossed by van Zyl, schooled by Horwill or bullied by Ali no he he will be remembered for that vile act of cowardice when he let our Steggie go into that black ruck without any support at all – Hargreaves stood their turned his back and did nothing.
I think Mvovo will be forgiven for being limited but for being afraid of the ball …
11 Sep 2012, 10:46 am
It should be simple. Test rugby… yes yes yes is a big step up. But all the best SA players (even those without caps) play against the best from nz and aus.
So you should not worry who cant make the step up, you should just simply choose the best, because if you choose 15 of the best inform players you should have a bloody decent team to beat the best. Especially after a very good super rugby season. And feel good about your chances.
This ‘experience’ BS is the dumbest excuse. What is this so called balance between youth and experience done for the team?
And mental toughness? Give me a break. Youd feel a hell of a lot more confident if you look around you and see guys (the stand outs) who played excellent rugby during a long super rugby season.
11 Sep 2012, 10:49 am
@pompies2-124:
Lambie.
I think if he had more time in the Bok line up for #10,he would become better and better.
Goosen is a sort of a nobody in international rugby. As we know super 15 vs international rugby is a huge difference.
11 Sep 2012, 10:50 am
@pompies2-124:
I think Goosen.
They have absolutely no idea what to expect. They will target his channel but we all know he can tackle.
But I would go with Lambie at fly half in this game.
Dunedin is the last place to start the future of SA Rugby. Break him in gradually. I’ll start Goosen at Soccercity.
11 Sep 2012, 10:54 am
@Brads-87:
Hit the nail on the head
Get rid of Foster
5 tests in and our play is starting to consistently suck just like when the Fozzie coached the Chiefs
11 Sep 2012, 10:57 am
I am starting to get sick and tired of the Blou Bullying Balletjies and other little jukskei acolytes scapegoating of players, especially if they don’t come from the Loftus Cathedral of outdated kickchase, subdue and penetrate rugby.
Mvovo fcked up on Saturday, no doubt. But he is without doubt probably the most dangerous strike runner, after JPP, that the Boks have – BALL IN HAND.
Problem is – he NEVER gets BALL IN HAND… This is anathema to Bok tactics at the moment – the only place the Boks will ever run with BALL IN HAND is farken in the so called RED ZONE – the opposition 22. Otherwise Braindead STRUCTURE dictates – Moer the ball skywards like an 80mm mortar Bomb.
Mvovo is wasted in the Boks… He needs to go back to KP before he is made more of a scapegoat in this Heyneke scorched earth policy of throwing players in, setting them up to fail, in order to justify his faith in favourites.
Meanwhile certain players will be given many games benefit of the doubt, with countless fckups while every manner of excuse on the planet will given for non performance – or we will just get fed the “I thought he played well” LIE.
I have seen this with Lambie – ever since the beginning of this year – chinese whispers emanating from North of the jukskei kept saying “Lambie is a good player, but a better 15 than 10″… And? The thing is, Lambie is a BETTER 10 than the current 10 despite maybe 10m less on a punt and despite being a better 15 than the current 15 too.
Lambie has been fcked around disgracefully by been made to sit on the bench, behind none other than scintillating Zane… The Blue Heyneke Acolytes must farkoff if they reckon Lambie is a more inferior player to Zane, and more insultingly to Morne at the moment…these myopic fools insult the intelligence of rugby supporters and players from all around SA outside the Pretoria CBD
The problem now is that Golden Goosen is on the scene as a new alternative to Morne. He hasn’t played 15 at the highest level therefore cannot be labelled a “better 15 than 10″ like Lambie has in order to give Morne wriggling room. Sooner or later he will have to be given a chance over abysmal Morne – its just that I worry that he will be SET UP TO FAIL in order to justify Morne.
Fark this
11 Sep 2012, 10:58 am
@spartan-129:
Yeah i think Foster is trying a bit much.
How did he worm his way in there anyways?
Surely we have better backline coaches than him.
11 Sep 2012, 11:01 am
@Hurricane-127: I’d also have Lambie. I think he’ll compliment Frans Steyn, who has been rather ineffective, very well. I think Goosen and Frans are too similarly maverick in their approach. A case of 2 nutty professors.
11 Sep 2012, 11:05 am
@Heavens Game-130:
Yeah. I feel sorry for lambie.
How many times has he watched for the side line?
Gets a couple of games, makes a mistake and then gets dropped for a few, while you have a certain few untouchables that are playing way below par, but have multiple chances to better there game.
Not right.
11 Sep 2012, 11:08 am
Jantjes should be starting at 10, with Goosen off the bench.
And Taute should be starting at 15, with Zane on a plane back home.
There’s a 30% improvement in our backline, just like that.
11 Sep 2012, 11:10 am
I tell you another thing… Continuation of double standards and scapegoating of players in the Bok setup is opening up a big can of rampant Provincialism never seen since the 80′s and early 90′s, NOT ONLY with supporters but players and coaches too…
In the final stages of the CC and S15 next year, one team will have a target on its back as the team to BEAT, well and truly… Not just away from home but at Cathedral Loftus too…. All coaches from other teams – Free State, WP, Lions, Sharks – will have no problem motivating players… Every team, and every player on these teams will be boiling with Rage at the Double Standards and selectorial luxuries afforded anyone in Light Blue and they will be dying to show that this is WRONG and willing to shove this straight down the throats of everyone who has ever sung Hofmeyers ode to the Noord Transvaal – “Ek Bly n Bul”…
Including the National Coach.
11 Sep 2012, 11:11 am
@Heavens Game-130: Where has this positive specimen gone? Will he ever return?
10.Heavens Game said:
8 Jun 2012, 11:48 am
Looking at the Poll it seems we have 124 + 46 + 26 Poms and Treacherous, bittereinde Stormerpoms running around on Keo…
Get ready for the big Heyneke Green and Gold Middle finger, boytjies
11 Sep 2012, 11:14 am
@katman-134:
The million dollar question is: why did HM give Goosen 10min against the Wallabies when the game was on a knife edge and he refused to give Jantjies any game time when we were in a similar situation in P.E.
11 Sep 2012, 11:17 am
@Jeraldjay-128: Blacks may not know what to excpet from Goosen but they will know what to expect from Goosen directed by Heineke.
KICK (copy+paste) KICK (copy+paste)!
Remember what this prodigy did with a few mins remaining and Boks down by 7? And do not forget a pretty lady with love messages from the coach.
11 Sep 2012, 11:19 am
@Hurricane-133: I actually reckon he should get the fark out of there… It is doing his rugger and his confidence no good. Soon he gets shoved on against a rampant AB’s with 10 mins left after only 10 mins rugby last week… AND horror of horrors he either drops a high ball… or misses a tackle…
Then he’s farked as a player in the eyes of the Bok coaches, and farked as a player in the eyes of the general brain dead Bok supporter.
Lambie should get out of there and get back to playing for the Sharks – rediscover his worth as a player and regain his S15 form of 2011 where he demonstrated without doubt that he was one of the best 10′s in the southern hemisphere.
He needs to do what Jantjies is doing and has done – embarrass Heyneke and the Blue Bulls in their own Bull Ring.
11 Sep 2012, 11:24 am
@Jeraldjay-137: Dunno. But every match winning performance by Jantjes in the CC must surely pose this question again and again. At least he’s using this time to build his CV.
11 Sep 2012, 11:25 am
@Transformation-110:
calm down trainsie
@Hurricane-113:
gurthro is more than capable of playing franks at th as well standing up to his dirty play. lots of cheap shots unpunished. boks always stand up.
@sparticus-119:
we all wish it was that simple sparticus, the coach does not see lambie as a fh and elton does not play the right type of game.
11 Sep 2012, 11:26 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-136: 8th June… was a different time for sure… Sharks S15 finalists and the Bok world looked eminently merit based and positive…I was 100% right… Heyneke has shown his Green and Gold middle finger… for certain.
Now its about protecting his Boys in Blue and handing out some selectorial sops to the noisy rival “Traditional Giants” of the South…
I reckon your players are welcome to the Green and Gold… Let the Boks be forever packed full of the North South “traditional giants” until the end of heynekes reign… Then the “traditional Giants” making up the Boks under Captain Jean from the Traditional South can wow SA and the rest of the world with scintillating No try 80mm Mortar rugby…
Welcome to the Heyneke and Jean era… A true Traditional North South partnership to farken oblivion.
11 Sep 2012, 11:26 am
@Heavens Game-139: “AND horror of horrors he either drops a high ball… or misses a tackle…
Then he’s farked as a player in the eyes of the Bok coaches, and farked as a player in the eyes of the general brain dead Bok supporter”
Glad you said this. Could you please explain this to a few of your friends who seem to think Bekker and Vermeulen have been resposible for everything that has gone wrong with the Boks thus far (or does your sentiment only stretch as far as Sharks players?) Honest question, from a humble supporter.
11 Sep 2012, 11:27 am
@Nils-138:
That kick was a Goosen brainfart which can be expected from a 20 year old playing 10 mins. of test match rugby.
Meyer is kick chase crazy but he would never have instructed Goosen to kick that ball at that precise moment.
Goosen did a similar thing in a Super Rugby game for the Cheetahs. The final hooter went off and they had an opportunity to draw the game but Goosen then decided the kick the ball for touch.
11 Sep 2012, 11:28 am
@Nils-138: “KICK (copy+paste) KICK (copy+paste)!” LOL… So Latvians do know something about something other than Chess after all.
11 Sep 2012, 11:29 am
what are you talking about china,
gurthro is playing the rugby of his life right now.
has had hayman for breakfast at will.
you clearly did not watch the top14 final.
11 Sep 2012, 11:30 am
Stop discussing the back line. Our main problem lies with the pack. Sort the pack out first. What can we do with our pack to be competitive in the scrums, rucks and mauls. In the line outs, I believe, we will be at least able to win our own ball .
The other point of discussion should be the SH service. Who should play SH to ensure quick service from the set plays? Hougaard, Ruan or Jano? We need to sort that out first before we cry about who the FH should be.
Then of course, what kind of game plan should we adopt to be able to win the AB? Meyer already said that there won’t be much change in the game plan.
Please, stop talking about players who are not in NZ right now. They won’t be playing on Saturday. No need to even mention them.
11 Sep 2012, 11:30 am
@katman-140:
“Jantjies verstaan nie die ****** gameplan nie”.
“Hoeveel keur moet ons dit nog aan hom verduidelik….”
11 Sep 2012, 11:32 am
@RL-125:
hehe
its hard to say RL, honestly. he did look bad and i could have sworn the look was fear when the ball came down and fear when alexander came calling.
but i could be wrong… it could have been just a hargreaves…
11 Sep 2012, 11:33 am
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-143: Honest opinion – dropping Bekker the right thing… He has been shy.te for a while now… Nick Mallet referred to him as a disgrace not long back.
Never rated Vermeulen, but for sure he has copped the short straw 3 games too early…
But “horror of horrors” I said this a couple of weeks ago while you fools were dancing around the maypole of glory when he and Golden Goosen were selected.
Now read properly… You might learn something proper about rugby outside your preconceived little world view of amateur quakery.
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