Toulon refuse to release Botha
11 Sep 2012
Toulon are adamant that Bakkies Botha will play for the French club this weekend and not for the Springboks.
With a suspension to Eben Etzebeth looming, Botha was placed on standby by Bok coach Heyneke Meyer on Monday. It was hoped that Botha would join the Boks in New Zealand in the event that Etzebeth was banned for a headbutt on Nathan Sharpe.
Etzebeth has since been banned for two weeks, but the Boks will need to replace the Stormers lock with somebody other than Botha.
Botha’s club, Toulon, has decided to block the big lock’s return to international rugby. Toulon coach Bernard Laporte was quoted in French newspaper L’Equipe saying Botha would play for the club against Montpellier this Friday.
The Boks will have to make do without Botha’s services, and it now seems likely that Flip van der Merwe will join his Bulls team-mate Juandre Kruger in the second row.
335 Comments
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11 Sep 2012, 16:27 pm
@PissAnt-50: If that’s his official statement, there is no mention of Bakkies Botha anywhere?, where did the Bakkies Botha “recall”/ “stand-by”/ “join the squad” coming from?
11 Sep 2012, 16:31 pm
if you want to win almost every test you have to play the players that can get the job done. With this in mind, you then blood new players where possible.
By not considering the advantages of having Bakkies, Matfield and a couple of those guys in the squad, you sit with the next best hopeful that could possibly make it to “the next WC”.
If the core of the Bok team consists of a winning team, the few selections that are still to be decided at the next date for a WC, will sort themselves out.
Why retire players because they’re 32, or 31? Form ,,,at times, should be taken more serious. I’m sure a winning team is the best place (and time) to bring in newbies.
If this means playing Bakkies or Rossouw, or Du Preez, to help guys like Coetzee, Etsebeth, Elstadt, Goossen or whoever to slot into a winning team. – each position can surely be covered in a couple of years in cases where a player’s form dips below standard.. and at the same time… if a couple of class players’ form is going to cost you matches, its suirely noticeable early enough – then get the form players to sub them.
11 Sep 2012, 16:33 pm
@shooter-52:
Nobody retired players, they retired themselves.
And good riddance, I say.
11 Sep 2012, 16:36 pm
@XhosaKid-51: “I spoke to Bakkies and we’ve placed him on standby,” Heyneke Meyer was quoted earlier.
http://www.ruggaworld.com/2012/09/10/boks-recall-bakkies/
11 Sep 2012, 16:38 pm
@XhosaKid-51:
Report from Ashfak Mohamed in the Cape Argus as far as I can tell.
@Transformation-54:
Which news24 picked up on
11 Sep 2012, 16:39 pm
@TooMuchRugby-53: in a certain sense coaches/ selectors retire players.
11 Sep 2012, 16:39 pm
@XhosaKid-51: Keo was not the only site / paper reporting this.
Maybe HM was talking out of his @ss as usual.
11 Sep 2012, 16:40 pm
@shooter-56: Only those that linger longer than they should.
11 Sep 2012, 16:41 pm
Hell even Bakkies says its complete nonsense.
11 Sep 2012, 16:42 pm
@TooMuchRugby-57:
Keo = blog.
Blogs pick up on mainstream media stories, re-publishes on their own platform.
Doesn’t mean the original story is true though.
11 Sep 2012, 16:49 pm
Good move, Toulon. The sooner the ex-teacher and his merry band of Blue Bull chronies are totally exposed, the better. That bunch of second rate assistant-coaches that Meyer surrounded himself with, will led to his downfall.
11 Sep 2012, 16:56 pm
@PissAnt-59: This is puzzling, which is nonsense ?, Bakkies being put on stand-by or him being contacted by HM?, I”m trying to find out whether or not contact was made with Bakkies or it was HM thinking aloud?, or complete made up story by a journalist that caught fire….
In practical terms, what does it mean to be on stand-by?, I take it every professional player whose not selected is on stand-by, what are the implications of stand-by
Anyone can please help out.
11 Sep 2012, 16:56 pm
@PissAnt-55: “Bakkies is on stand-by,” Meyer said.
“We are in contact with Bakkies. We keep in touch with all the overseas-based players. The guys know who is on stand-by and exactly where they stand,” he added.
Etzebeth’s absence further complicates the Boks’ tight forward problems, which are already being hampered by injuries.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/7648935/Springboks-may-call-on-Bakkies-Botha-for-ABs/
11 Sep 2012, 16:58 pm
@XhosaKid-62: The Sanzar judicial hearing was held by video-conference tonight and before the outcome Springboks coach Heyneke Meyer admitted they were considering backup plans that included Botha, the 76-test hard man who hasn’t played a test since the World Cup, but has been active with French club Toulon
11 Sep 2012, 16:58 pm
@Lang Giel-61: 100% Lang Giel. Richard Branson, Donald Trump, Graham Hnery, in fact any successful businessman or coach will always surround themselves with the best specialists they can afford.
Both PDivvy and HM have both surrounded themselves with inferior specialists and the results are plain to see…. its not rock science (oh hold, in actual fact……)
11 Sep 2012, 17:00 pm
Thank you Toulon. Please keep him! We have other young players who can step up! Bring in Bresler!
11 Sep 2012, 17:02 pm
Isnt France a wee bit further away than SA is from Nz? ? ? ?????
11 Sep 2012, 17:03 pm
@XhosaKid-62:
It is quite simple actually.
Bakkies was placed on stand-by as any other player would be placed on stand-by by the coach who did not make the official touring squad. Basically they know to keep fit, keep their passports ready cause a call can come anytime.
Meyer saying Bakkies was placed on standby was done before the outcome of Eben’s disciplinary was known.
The paragraph I quoted earlier was made by Meyer after it was known Eben was suspended.
At that time, Meyer was unsure whether they will call up the player placed on standby as they ‘had faith in the guys in NZ already’.
Clearly they did not think it is necessary, Bakkies was never officially called up, hence Laporte did not ‘block’ him from leaving France.
Bakkies himself confirmed subsequently that the reports of Laporte blocking him are rubbish, we are currently in an international window which means they cannot block him.
He was simply not called up.
11 Sep 2012, 17:05 pm
@Blokkies-65: Divvy has his thrust upon him. Meyer’s first choices were either unavailable, made themselves unavailable or didn’t want to return to SA. Meyer had to made do with what he could get.
11 Sep 2012, 17:05 pm
@PissAnt-68: Have to love journalism.
11 Sep 2012, 17:07 pm
@mikeybrass-70:
Haha, indeed.
11 Sep 2012, 17:07 pm
The French do have their moments – THANK YOU…
What ever happened to Mostert if that is how you spell his name, think he played in tri nations last year the away legs, he looked pretty decent..
If JVK was a Bull before he would be in the team, he should be playing and could captain the side. And BJ BOTHA why have they not called him back.
If we start the same team we started for the Aus game, we will get a hiding.
We might stand a chance if he moved Coetzee to 8, Flow and Vermulen.. Albert on the bench to cover lock and Flank.. Lambie to start at 10, Goosen to come on 2nd half… JDV to the wing start JDJ and Steyn, but not sure who will play 15 as Kotchner is not up to par. Or maybe move hougard back to 9 and move pienaar to 15?
11 Sep 2012, 17:16 pm
@PissAnt-68: Thanks, boet. The Bakkies story was just selling papers, so Bakkies is on standby as much as Joe Van Niekerk might be on standby as well but HM hasn’t been quizzed on 8thman standby.
11 Sep 2012, 17:20 pm
@mikeybrass-69: Fair enough I don’t know all the details of who was and was not approached to form part of his team, but the fact remains that his assistants are second rate (as were Divvy’s) and the results reflect this.
We need better assistants, so I hope Meyer rectifies this soon. We quite obviously do not have a Tim Lane or David Campese coaching our backs to attack and we need this urgently…….
Just saying.
11 Sep 2012, 17:20 pm
@XhosaKid-73:
Pretty much dude.
Gives you an idea how quotes can get skewed.
11 Sep 2012, 17:23 pm
@rabooby-72: while you at it lets move Morne Steyn to hooker and play Jannie on the flank…
11 Sep 2012, 17:27 pm
@Blokkies 72
I think Jannie will be to slow at Flank!!!!
I am just working with what they have out in NZ.
11 Sep 2012, 17:27 pm
@Blokkies-74: The process SARU undertook to appoint Meyer was much better than has been the case with previous appointments. The timing of it though was cr*p and resulted in Meyer not having much choice at the end of the day; this was out in the public domain back at the time. I have no idea what the terms of said contracts are. I would love to have Louden (ruled himself out iirc) or Campese as attack coach.
11 Sep 2012, 17:30 pm
@Blokkies-74:
“coaching our backs to attack and we need this urgently”
Hougaard and Habana attack at any chance, their problem is the ball gets too late with M Styen and two super egos in JdV and FS the centres
And, coaching Mvovo, Ndungane or Basson to attack, I’d love to see that done!
11 Sep 2012, 17:32 pm
@Blokkies-65: Johann van Graan, the son of the Bulls’ CEO, one Barend van Graan, happens to be Meyer’s forward coach at the Boks. I am serious!
11 Sep 2012, 17:33 pm
@mikeybrass-78:
Where is Louden now?
with AC and Laubscher the Boks’ backs coaches, it said it all
11 Sep 2012, 17:38 pm
@XhosaKid-62:
Why does it matter do much to you?
11 Sep 2012, 17:41 pm
To all you stats gurus: where can I find stats on the 40m \ 100m times for rugby players?
I would love to know the 40m \ 100m times of Lambie to see if he is at all an option for the boks at 15.
11 Sep 2012, 17:53 pm
@Puma-45: use your head Eben doesn’t have what it takes in terms of brain capacity to organise the kick offs and make all the lineout calls, which in fact is the core role of a number 5 lock. Eben’s acts and retalisation on Saturday against Sharpe is a clear indication that he isn’t capable of a 5 role. And besides the fact as long as Bekker is still at province Eben will never be made a 5, Bekker’s got way to much push behind him coming from the union and his fathers involvement. And anybody else who still believes Eben is a 5 lock and not a 4, pls open your eyes.
11 Sep 2012, 17:57 pm
Here is the article on L’Equipe:
Le deuxième ligne sud africain Bakies Botha (32 ans, 76 sélections) ne jouera pas samedi contre la Nouvelle-Zélande lors de la quatrième journée du Four Nations. Son retour en sélection avait pourtant été annoncé par la presse sud-africaine après la suspension pour deux semaines de Eben Etzebeth. Bernard Laporte l’entraîneur toulonnais est formel: «Bakkie portera vendredi le maillot du RC Toulon et pas celui de l’Afrique du Sud samedi. Aujourd’hui il s’est entraîné avec nous. Il est là et bien là.» B.V
Translated:
South African second-rower Bakkies Botha (32 years, 76 caps) will not play against New Zealand on Saturday in the fourth march of the Four Nations. His return to selection was announced by the South African press after the suspension for two weeks of Eben Etzebeth. Bernard Laporte, Toulon’s coach, is certain: “Bakkies will wear the strip of RC Toulon on Friday and not that of South Africa on Saturday. He trained with us today. He is here, and here to stay.”
11 Sep 2012, 17:57 pm
@WP-Forever-85:
“Fourth match”, not fourth march.
11 Sep 2012, 18:06 pm
@rabooby-77:
> I think Jannie will be to slow at Flank!!!!
We could use FS as no 8, he’s big enoug, he likes contact unlike Spies and he looks as “well rounded” as Jerry Collins and he’s doing the first receiver job Schalk did last year anyway
11 Sep 2012, 18:14 pm
@lieflingblou-84: There’s nothing wrong with Eben’s decision making. He played 5 for the junior boks and excelled in the tournament.
He’s been targeted all year long and this is the first time he’s overreacted.
But he’s doing fine at 4 We have Juandre, Bekker and then the lions chap at 5. No worries. We are much thinner at 4.
11 Sep 2012, 18:16 pm
@stormersboy-88: Remember there is PSDT coming too. Meyer rates him. Think he may have been selected as well. Pity he picked up a injury. He is a 4 lock. Could see him and Eben playing as a lock pairing in years to come for the Boks. Eben at 5 with Pieter at 4.
11 Sep 2012, 18:20 pm
@lieflingblou-84: I thought that Eben had played 5 lock for JBs.
Okay read post 88. That confirms Eben did play there.
11 Sep 2012, 18:21 pm
@Puma-89: i actually like him at 7. Think he could dominate that position.
11 Sep 2012, 18:22 pm
@TooMuchRugby-26:
respect for the tip
11 Sep 2012, 18:24 pm
@lieflingblou-84:
” Eben’s acts and retalisation on Saturday against Sharpe is a clear indication that he isn’t capable of a 5 role’
Care to explain this statement?
11 Sep 2012, 18:24 pm
@Puma-90: He did yes. because of his height I think the temptation was to play him at 5, but having spoken to him he confirmed to me that he’s a 4 by preference.
11 Sep 2012, 18:26 pm
@Robzim-93: yeah because Nathan Sharpe at 5 has never ever been in any trouble, or that would have excluded him from the position
11 Sep 2012, 18:26 pm
@stormersboy-91: He is very good at 7 but he is superb at 4 lock as well. He is the closest I have seen to Juan Smith at 7 though, so you do have a good point. Not as great yet, but has massive talent that he could become like him.
11 Sep 2012, 18:27 pm
I see that Josh Strauss has signed for Glasgow Warriors until 2015. Looks like the Lions would prefer him to move overseas rather than release him to a local province, given KdeKs backing of the deal.
11 Sep 2012, 18:28 pm
@Puma-96: He’s a great young prospect for sure. There are a few guys coming through that show great potential. I hope that they kick on from there.
11 Sep 2012, 18:29 pm
Bring in Bresler. A no brainer. Stunning player. Tough as steel.
11 Sep 2012, 18:29 pm
@stormersboy-94: Okay. Well he has played there all season, so then leave him there. Who else for 5? Kruger and Bekker not so sure of them. You mention the Lions 5 lock?
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