KeoTV: Lessons from a legend’s failings

KeoTV: Lessons from a legend’s failings

13 Sep 2012

RYAN VREDE says Heyneke Meyer must heed lessons from Robbie Deans’ Test career.


37 Comments

  • 1.bokfan1: Reply to this comment
    13 Sep 2012, 15:58 pm

    Fail, Dragons?

  • 2.katman: Reply to this comment
    13 Sep 2012, 16:10 pm

    Inculcate? That’s awfully grown-up.

  • 3.XhosaKid: Reply to this comment
    13 Sep 2012, 16:32 pm

    Jeez!!! Ryan, you speak funny English…..

  • 4.Horings: Reply to this comment
    13 Sep 2012, 16:52 pm

    A super 15 team have only 30 odd players to select from and those players were contracted at some stage. A coach therefore need to be a superb selector when contracting his players to be a long term success. Meyer has this one ticked from past experience. He has brought Etzebeth, Kruger and Coetzee through superbly and is being let down by the more experience players in the team. It is all about making a commitment to someone’s future and if Heyneke picked Jantjies, but dropped him for his preferred choice then he would have destroyed Jantjies’ future. Heyeneke Meyer knows Goosen is the future and he cannot pick Lambie and Jantjies just until Goosen finds his feet. It is Relationship Building 101.

    The last time we were in a similar situation was in 2002/2003 where some young guys were coming through, but no one knew who was better. Some said Bolla Conradie was our best scrumhalf, some said Joost was the best, some said Neil de Kock was the best and others said Craig Davidson is the best. So what did Streauli do: he picked all of them giving no player a chance to build some confidence in continuity. You can go through all the players used in 2002/2003. He broke some careers (think a very talented Jorrie Muller) due to not building a relationship with the players.

    Heyneke is busy bringing through a number of future Boks and players such as Morne Steyn, Jean de Villers, Beast, Jannie Dup and Bekker are the ones not performing. It would have been much better if Bismark and JP Pietersen (2 of our on form Super rugby players) were there, but sometimes luck is not on your side.

  • 5.Horings: Reply to this comment
    13 Sep 2012, 16:55 pm

    @Horings-4: I would have also gone with Goosen ahead of Steyn, but Heyneke is the one who needs to build Goosen, so let him make the decisions.

  • 6.TooMuchRugby: Reply to this comment
    13 Sep 2012, 17:00 pm

    @Horings-4:
    Hahaha….. “Relationship Building 101″
    Dis die probleem……HM wil vir Steyn op ‘n date vat.

  • 7.goodstuff: Reply to this comment
    13 Sep 2012, 17:21 pm

    @TooMuchRugby-6: Lol!

    @Horings-4: Sorry but that is hogwash, Lambie is being treated like dirt, when he is the better player, rather have to good players battling it out for the topo spot then have a truly weak player keeping them both on the bench!

  • 8.xtremebull: Reply to this comment
    13 Sep 2012, 17:22 pm

    Its the same with hougaard at that time… When heineke went to coach leicester he took hougaard with him… And now he is doing it with steyn…

    He’s got a thing for bulls flyhalves lol

  • 9.lieflingblou: Reply to this comment
    13 Sep 2012, 17:23 pm

    @Horings-4: I agree with you 100% it’s the older more experienced players who should be setting an example for the youngsters but they are not. I think Etzebeth, Coetzee and Kruger have done very well too date especially if you take into account they have both only played 11 Super Rugby games before becoming boks and having to perform in the shadows of past and injured rugby heroes! The 3 of them have my support through and through! Seniors need to start showing heart like these youngsters do, especially capt. Jean who has missed all 4 of the 4 tackles he attempted to make in the last 2 games (believe it or not he only tried, yes tried to make 2 tackles per game, and then really even missed them) – pathetic really utterly disgusting.

    they need to pull their fuckingthumbs outoftheirasses and start manning up. Stop slipping tackles and take off their pink tuts when it comes to their defense.

  • 10.Sheriff: Reply to this comment
    13 Sep 2012, 18:13 pm

    Ryan raai aan…

    How can you compare Robbie Deans’ success with Heyneke Meyer’s 83rd min win because of a try scored by Bryan Habs?

    That game could have gone either way.

    Deans on the other hand won it several times, I speak under correction – 7 times?

    Why so kind to the white coaches but for PdV you only had criticism?
    Djy moet wys raak ou pel

  • 11.stormersboy: Reply to this comment
    13 Sep 2012, 18:18 pm

    I was wondering how long it would take before a Robbie Deans comparison article came out.

    You’re quite late to the party Ryan.

    You have to do better than that if you want a hope of winning another nomination to the annual “blogger with aspirations of being a real sports writer but with a lekker accent” awards ceremony.

    People have been comparing the tow for the past 2 weeks, both in print and even here on the blog.

    Maybe one of them should have written the article. :)

  • 12.Sheriff: Reply to this comment
    13 Sep 2012, 18:24 pm

    With Deans at the helm Crusaders won the Super rugby 5 times and 2 other final appearances

    So how can that be compared to Meyer’s 1 victory which was also ‘ a broekskeur’ win?

    Come on! Come on!!

  • 13.stormersboy: Reply to this comment
    13 Sep 2012, 18:25 pm

    I’m sorry Ryan my wife just read my post and thinks I’m being a little harsh.

    Actually she said I’m being mean.

    She’s sitting next to me as i type this.

    ….:)

  • 14.Dawn: Reply to this comment
    13 Sep 2012, 18:51 pm

    She got you by the balls

  • 15.stormersboy: Reply to this comment
    13 Sep 2012, 19:48 pm

    @Dawn-14: What can I say, she’s got big hands!

    :D

  • 16.kaksioek: Reply to this comment
    13 Sep 2012, 20:02 pm

    @stormersboy-15: If “she” also has an Adam’s apple then we might have to have a little chat.
    Kidding :lol:

  • 17.stormersboy: Reply to this comment
    13 Sep 2012, 21:07 pm

    @kaksioek-16: LOL mate after 20 years I recon i would have noticed if anything was amiss.

    :)

  • 18.Lang Giel: Reply to this comment
    13 Sep 2012, 21:25 pm

    Meyer and Deans in a mad dash for the unemployment line. Meyer has longer blades waiting for him. (Sorry Oscar!)

  • 19.viewer: Reply to this comment
    13 Sep 2012, 22:56 pm

    Vrede, Deans has not failed. Aus are ranked 2nd; are defending 3N champs; finished 3rd at WC 2011. His vision for the team was displayed in Aus’s match vs the Barbarians last year. They’ve lost momentum since that fixture along with being deprived of a number of players through injury.
    At the Crusaders he boasts 5 SR titles; 7 finals appearances in 9 seasons; 5 consecutive finals appearances; highest winning % of any coach. Take a look at the 2002 SR final, arguably the single most compelling performance in the history of the sport.

    Heyneke Meyer? He’s a nobody in comparison

  • 20.viewer: Reply to this comment
    13 Sep 2012, 23:03 pm

    Meyer wants to work with scared boerseun robots.

    Deans coached the likes of Somerville, Marshall, Mauger, Merhtens, MacDonald, Senio, Laulala, Ralph, Thorne, Thorn, Jack, Wiiliams, Vunibaka, Tuiali’I, Carter & McCaw

  • 21.viewer: Reply to this comment
    13 Sep 2012, 23:08 pm

    Heyneke’s only a hero if you take the Currie Cup into account. The Blue Bulls/Heyneke Meyer shills on this blog won’t allow us to forget

  • 22.victoriabok: Reply to this comment
    13 Sep 2012, 23:22 pm

    @viewer-19:

    > Deans has not failed.

    Read Green and Gold Rugby, they also want him out and give the job to an Aussie

    He had FIVE years to implement his plans, yet you won’t give HM 6 tests?

    > At the Crusaders he boasts 5 SR titles

    Capesader supporter?

  • 23.viewer: Reply to this comment
    14 Sep 2012, 00:55 am

    @22 Vrede grasps at straws because Deans effected a clear-out of the Wallaby squad after the 2008 3N. Some players were never seen again. Meyer has sufficient intel to do the same, and it is necessary. But he’s too stuck in his ways.

    By the way the term “cape crusader” has very unpleasant connotations

  • 24.Hurricane: Reply to this comment
    14 Sep 2012, 02:46 am

    Deans really has not failed.
    3 nations champs, came close in the RWC, only to blasted of the field by an AB team that won the world cup.
    2011 tri nations was the first win in 10 years for Ozzie. He has had the best win/loss ratio against SA than any coach at the moment, even though according to South African rugby fans that Ozzie have rubbish players. Makes you think how good Deans is going by that.
    Problem he has is the inconsistent performance the Ozzie team can play. Silly losses against lowly ranked teams has hurt Deans and co. But i for one am not going to blame Deans on all of the Ozzies losses. And comparing Deans to HM is a joke.

  • 25.Hurricane: Reply to this comment
    14 Sep 2012, 02:51 am

    @viewer-23:
    “By the way the term “cape crusader” has very unpleasant connotations”

    Strange how some of these people comeup with thinking a blogger is a Sader fan.
    Its like no one is allowed to quote any sader wins or stats without being accused of being a fan.

  • 26.AiDoc: Reply to this comment
    14 Sep 2012, 03:58 am

    What language is he speaking?

  • 27.Mike H: Reply to this comment
    14 Sep 2012, 07:18 am

    Cant create the best tram in the world in a few months. End of story.

    Im so bored of all this drivel.

    New coach,lose a few games, whine whine whine. Let’s replace said coach.

    One thing is good. We are a competitive nation and we strive to win.

    pressure is good. But take England for example they have the most ruthless press in the world but it does make them a better team.

    Some vision, calm and patients are needed here.

    Stop panicing.

    Why has HM gone from all your hero’s, Mr Vrede’s do mo wrong man. Now he is slating him himself

    Is HM suddenly a **** coach? No

  • 28.Mike H: Reply to this comment
    14 Sep 2012, 07:20 am

    Jake White still my favourite SA coach of all time.

    But im happy to give HM and chance to live and learn.

    These players need test experience. Our locks just aint Victor and Bakkies – nobody trembles at our lineout anymore and that was a key area of our possesion and keeping the ball from the opposition.

  • 29.Mike H: Reply to this comment
    14 Sep 2012, 07:21 am

    Having the best lineout in the world is what won us the 2007 WC

  • 30.Monty15: Reply to this comment
    14 Sep 2012, 08:46 am

    HM has barely started, it’s far too early to make comparisons with Deans, who’s in his fifth season with Oz. So far, Meyer’s tactics haven’t set the world on fire but let’s see how he develops in the role. Yes, he has some miles on the clock as a coach but test rugby’s something new for him and different from every other level he’s coached at. Just remember the quality players on the injured list and the veterans who have retired or moved abroad — he’s been incredibly unlucky in that respect. Bottom line, he wants to win just as much as any Bok fan, so let him have a fair crack at it before likening him to Dingo. Next year, he should have his injured stars back, plus the experience of a season in the job behind him, and a chance to revise his game plan — who knows, that could turn out to be a winning mix. People should be a little patient, a World Cup winning side isn’t built in a day.

  • 31.garth: Reply to this comment
    14 Sep 2012, 09:25 am

    @Monty15-30: Develops in the role? Wtf are you talking about? How much of this sh_i_t are going to have to go through. Then guy needs to get the f_u_ck outta dodge… now.

  • 32.Monty15: Reply to this comment
    14 Sep 2012, 09:40 am

    31.garth said

    Weren’t many Boks fans putting the boot into PDV before the WC last year, only to change their tune when things suddenly started to look good for them at the tournament? If we follow your logic, HM gets rolled a couple of months into his contract, then what happens if the next man in the job also has a stuttering start — axe him too? How many coaches are you prepared to go through in one season, three, four, five …? Agitating for him to be ousted now is crazy, it’s never going to happen. You have to give him two seasons. See where he’s at then, he could have SA on top.

  • 33.Transformation: Reply to this comment
    14 Sep 2012, 09:53 am

    @Mike H-27: England don’t draw with Scotland or Italy, they beat them…Lancaster with GREENHORNS finished 2nd in the 6 Nations only losing to Grand Slam winners Wales by a hair’s whisker…there was nothing for the Poms to b.itch about.

    Our coach drew with those pom newbies and then draws with Argentina and loses to the currently c.rappy Aussies, not because our team is young, inexperienced or any of those pathetic excuse, no, the reason is he has our team playing an archaic gameplan that he is too stubborn to see it figured out from MILES away!

    the Aussies played into our hands in the 1st half as they were kicking aimless grubbers after every 2nd or 3rd phase but our team isn’t coached to play the situation so they stuck to kicking because “hey, we’re winning the aerial ping pong”…when the aussies switched it up and kept the ball for longer than 5 phases they exposed our porous defence and bang with quick recycle ball they had us open like sardine cans…

  • 34.race of tan: Reply to this comment
    14 Sep 2012, 10:23 am

    Transformation – I still feel there maybe a method to HMs madness, as we are calling it.

    HM knows The Goose is the future for the Boks but he is adamant not to hurt him at this stage of career by throwing him in the deep end. It is a shame that Lambie is being over looked but HM still needs a few players of colour in his team otherwise etc etc.

    HM also has alot of injuries, alot, so i have a feeling he has gone for the common game plan to begin with and little by little bring in a more rounded game plan.
    As we all HM is very pragmatic, what we are seeing is pragmatism!!

  • 35.race of tan: Reply to this comment
    14 Sep 2012, 10:36 am

    Transformation (missing word) – As we all know HM is very pragmatic, what we are seeing is pragmatism!!

  • 36.husky: Reply to this comment
    14 Sep 2012, 11:59 am

    Deans owes Heineken a favour and a case of well, Heineken I suppose as he, Heineken, may well have just saved Dean’s *** with the Wallybe’s beating the boks. I really hope Deans can return the favour sometime. Although being an NZ’der cross Aussie, he’ll probably renege on it. As these weasels do with most things; even each other.

  • 37.mshiniwami: Reply to this comment
    14 Sep 2012, 12:28 pm

    Most dissapointing thing about Meyer is his gameplan & selections

    -Kick chase/archaic
    -Lack of incisiveness or innovation
    -no variation in tactics
    -pityfull defensive structures & execution
    -no breakdown specialist/true opensider
    -Arrogance in his beliefs

    Please are complaining about injuries but the AB’s have new combinations all over their team ex:

    Smith/Cruden
    Whitelock/Romano
    Messam/McCaw/Read

    Also have out of form players like Owen Franks,Nonu,Weepu..New caps like Retallick,Savea.Injuries to Smith,departure of SBW etc

    A new head coach in Hansen(doesn’t hav a “sparkling” record like Deans or Meyer)

    Deans has suffered critical losses/injuries to players-Horwill,Moore,Pocock,Kepu,Palu,Genia,Mitchell,McCabe,O’Connor,Horne.Add out of form Cooper & Beale.Add Oz shocking S15 campaign

    Heyneke isn’t only one faced with difficulties,so boo fckin hoo.SA rugby has never look so bad for nearly a decade.Reminds one of that team at RWC 03…Messiah

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