Turning adventure into torture – why?
14 Sep 2012
MARK KEOHANE writes Sunday will follow Saturday, regardless of whether the Springboks win or lose against the All Blacks in Dunedin. Which makes the conservatism and approach of the Bok management that much more baffling.
I could understand a coach refusing to change in his fourth year, a few months out from a World Cup. I could understand a coach refusing to change a winning formula, if his team was consistently winning and setting the standards. I can’t understand the absolutes associated with Heyneke Meyer and his Springboks in his first season in charge.
Meyer is going nowhere unless by his own accord. But his refusal to recognize, alternatively acknowledge restrictions in the Springboks’ first six Tests is making his life a lot more complicated than it has to be. There is pressure on Meyer, as there will be on any Springbok coach, but Meyer has turned up the heat himself in his response to successive indifferent Bok performances against Argentina in Mendoza and Australia in Perth.
The Bok coach has insisted that it is not his team’s tactical approach or the game plan that has counted against the Boks, but instead has focused on poor execution as being more definitive.
I disagree totally because the approach evident since the drawn third Test against England in Port Elizabeth has been one-dimensional, predictable and hugely unsuccessful because by and large the Boks’ pack has not fashioned a dominance which allows for a purely percentage based game.
There can never be a guarantee at Test level of forward dominance because of the relatively similar strengths of the top five teams, and the better teams often have to rely on winning with little ball possession. It is here where South Africa has shown no threat. In Mendoza they were just awful. In Perth when they had an initial edge up front, the kicking game proved effective. The moment they lost that momentum they looked clueless and ironically when they went behind late in the game after leading 13-3 after 30 minutes they finally produced their most inventive period of play.
Johan Goosen, at flyhalf, was very instrumental to this ball movement, largely because he takes the ball at pace, is prepared to stand flat on attack and will take contact. He is the complete opposite of Morne Steyn, who just doesn’t play that way. For Steyn to be successful the Bok pack has to be decidedly better than the opposition. A few years ago they were when blessed with Victor Matfield, Bakkies Botha, Bismarck du Plessis, John Smit, Schalk Burger, Juan Smith, Danie Rossouw and the like. And then there was the massive influence of the world’s best scrumhalf Fourie du Preez on his inside.
Du Preez’s tactical kicking is unrivaled among scrumhalves and the Boks have had neither Du Preez’s kicking game nor his appreciation of game management this season. Meyer is hopeful Du Preez will return to international rugby by the end of the year or at the latest in 2013.
Steyn, in isolation, is not the Boks’ current problem, but currently he is also not the genie in the bottle. The Bok forwards in Port Elizabeth a year ago gave the All Blacks a touch up, had every advantage in the collisions and forced the Kiwis into errors and created the opportunities for Steyn to have five penalty kicks at goal and favourable go forward ball from which to also land a drop goal.
Steyn in Port Elizabeth enjoyed a pack in fiercely dominant mood. But for brief periods in the first two Tests against England the Bok pack has competed at best or been outplayed.
Until the pack improves Steyn will be a non-factor at flyhalf, as will the outside backs as a unit.
What I don’t buy is that while Meyer tries to find a forward unit capable of this dominance there is no flexibility in finding alternative ways of dominance. It is also nonsense that a 20 year-old (read Goosen) can’t start against the All Blacks in Dunedin. If he isn’t good enough to start then he shouldn’t be in the match 22 because there is no guarantee he isn’t required a minute into the Test because of injury.
I have read comparisons being made with Gaffie du Toit’s nightmare in Dunedin and a fear of things going the same way for Goosen. Nonsense. Du Toit had already played for the Boks in the home series win against Ireland. The Bok coach of the time Nick Mallett appreciated Du Toit’s natural ability but from the outset had concerns about the mental resolve of the player. He had to play him in Dunedin to get an answer.
Goosen’s mental resolve has never been questioned. He went from school rugby to Currie Cup to Super Rugby with no issues. And his Test debut of nine minutes showed huge promise and he showed comforting composure.
I would have not hesitated to give him a start. What an experience for the player. Saturday is not a World Cup final or the decider of this year’s Castle Rugby Championship. Why can’t there be supposed risk? What is there to lose?
Steyn has played 40 Tests, including a World Cup in New Zealand and Test matches against the All Blacks in New Zealand. Meyer knows what he has in Steyn and by entrusting an alternative in Goosen or Lambie all he would have done is see if there is a Plan B or additional depth at No 10. Now he won’t know until the next visit to New Zealand in a year. That is what has been so damn frustrating about the unwillingness to view an alternative. If he had picked Goosen or Lambie and it hadn’t worked out, then he reverts to the man who has played 40 Tests.
Meyer remains committed to Steyn, espouses the virtues of the player and defends how well Steyn is playing, but that is also nonsense. Steyn’s goalkicking accuracy is 63 percent in the last six Tests, and Meyer would not have allowed Goosen, Lambie or Elton Jantjies six successive Tests with such a return.
And it is here where Meyer is doing himself no favours because you can’t defend 63 percent, when the player’s primary asset has been his ability to kick at 85 percent.
The issue though is not as simple as select or drop Morne Steyn and I am not saying get rid of Morne Steyn, but look beyond him as the depth of the squad is built. The key to any successful team is depth in the number of players capable of playing Test rugby.
Why this absolute anxiousness from Meyer and within the Bok set up? As much as I hate the emphasis put on the World Cup it is a reality of the sport and the game works in four year cycles. If ever a coach has a luxury it is in the first year post the World Cup when so many players have retired or moved abroad and made themselves unavailable for Test selection. Meyer, in this first year, is treating it as if the World Cup is played in a few months and any window for exploring variables is gone.
I use the word explore and not experiment because there is nothing with which to experiment. The players are known quantities and so no international coach is working with the unknown.
Saturday in Dunedin offered so much promise because Meyer could have turned the week into an exciting one with the prospect of so many possibilities. And he could have done it in a way where no expectation was created either. He could have focused on the chance given to new kids and the growth they’ll get out of 80 minutes of playing the All Blacks in New Zealand.
Instead he has put World Cup-final like pressure on Steyn to save his career and he has turned a Test match into a life or death situation. Why? It never had to come to this. If Steyn fails then it is hard to see how Meyer can’t drop him. And given the strength of the Bok pack I don’t see how Steyn can succeed, given that his type of flyhalf play needs a pack that is dominant.
A more enlightened approach would have allowed for this week to be one of adventure and not torture.
The psychology of it all seems so wrong when it wasn’t particularly complicated to get it right.
290 Comments
13 Sep 2012, 15:37 pm
What are the chances that Meyer will be sacked after a single win in the Championship i.e. the first match against Argentina?
13 Sep 2012, 15:42 pm
HM is saying that his gameplan is good, but the players are not executing it correctly. This is effectively saying that he knows how to win rugby games, but the players are not good enough to implement his game plan properly. Therefore we shouldn’t be criticizing the coach, who is clearly smarter than the rest of the rugby world. We should be laying blame at the feet of our team, who don’t have the skills, passion or ability to perfect this amazing game plan. No wonder the team don’t look happy!
13 Sep 2012, 15:51 pm
He also said Morné was playing well…with a 63% kicking record and a 50% win rate for the boks. Maybe Morné is giving him a kick back from his match fee.
When Heyneke gets booted they might call up Mallett.
Probably why he hasn’t accepted any other rugby jobs at the moment…
13 Sep 2012, 15:52 pm
Fear based coach…..
HM will have to exorcise his own demons…..the paranoia will spread like a rust otherwise….hope it has not already started …
13 Sep 2012, 15:53 pm
Keo has it spot on….
No one expects Boks to win Sat ….perfect scenario to have been bold…
13 Sep 2012, 15:56 pm
Keo doing an ABRUPT ABOUT TURN
Heyneke Meyer was Keo’s favored darling Messiah come to exorcise the ghost of PdV past
Now Keo chucking in the towel once more on the Bok coaching genius who he was front of the queue waxing lyrical about..
13 Sep 2012, 15:57 pm
@Soda-1: I doubt it…..but of course if we go to Europe at the end of the year on tour and we lose there………….
That could be a different story!
13 Sep 2012, 16:00 pm
This is the first article in a long time from Keo that i actually agree with…
Heyneke is going to hang himself. He is busy tying the knot now!
He’s fear for trying something new or not to give players chances he doesnt know, is going to kill Bok Rugby. Everytime he has to select between players he coached before or not, then he wont pick the latter. He is already panicking and is becomming irrational.
13 Sep 2012, 16:01 pm
Well said.
My biggest concern with HM so.
His lack of flexibility and experimentation early in his Bok career.
Doesnt have to be massive sweeping changes. Just enough that lets us know he is capable of coaching a different/better style of rugby.
13 Sep 2012, 16:05 pm
Personally I think that like a lot of good players that can’t make that “step up” to being a good international……..so are there coaches who fit that exact mold.
Meyer is starting to look just like a really good super15 coach that just can’t make the step up to the international level. Perhaps pigheadedness and fear of losing along with his “laagered” “I’m always the underdog and written off” kuk don’t fit into an international coaches profile?
I think that being an international coach the one factor you HAVE to have is flexibility…..and Meyer is showing that he’s about as flexible as a railway sleeper! He has a squad of players……and instead of analyzing their strengths and weaknesses and then preparing a game plan based on this……he’s decided he HAS a game plan already (from 20 years back) and he is going to panel beat this squad into playing it…….even if it doesn’t suit their skill sets at all!!
Dumb-a$$ coaching if you ask me……
13 Sep 2012, 16:08 pm
Nice one Mark! HM is clueless. He is sticking to “what” and “who” he knows. True doesnt matter who you pick at Flyhalf, HM approach to the game will harvest the same result.
13 Sep 2012, 16:09 pm
Totally agree with this, although I think you cant drop a young guy like Goosen into #10 in a Test vs ABs in NZ. The ABs would target him and it would be chaos.
I think Lambie should start at 10, and Goosen should get the last 20 mins.
However, the success of any of that depends on:
- Pack providing some kind of go-forward
- Scrummie actually trying to pass quickly (not pushing the ball back into the ruck!)
- Centres running good lines on attack
- Some innovation, imagination and even (gasp!) some offloading from the backline
13 Sep 2012, 16:10 pm
@John Galt-9: The problem is I don’t think Meyer is capable of coaching any other style of play other than the stupidly outdated kick ‘n chase rubbish that he’s defending so desperately.
He’s quickly proving himself to be a one trick pony that apparently is incapable of learning…..and I certainly hope that if it carries on this way that he is NOT left in this position long enough to make an even worse mess of the Boks……..Lord we had enough of that with Divvy being given four whole years to f$ck the Boks up…..
13 Sep 2012, 16:15 pm
Ouens nous die tyd, as jy wil weet alles, lees verder, kykie
die lAAAAsste tyd kan ek jou tonteldoosies help out, they gonna gooi plat this next level shitttt by gister mourning
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVWWvo5EhoQ
13 Sep 2012, 16:22 pm
@Chris4Lions-8: “Everytime he has to select between players he coached before or not, then he wont pick the latter.” K A K! Louw bo Stegmann, Etzebeth bo vd Merwe. Oosthuizen bo Greyling! Dit is as jy bedoel Bul bo nie-Bul want hy het maar bitter min van die huidige Bulle actually gecoach.
13 Sep 2012, 16:22 pm
@PielNeus-14: Jy moet seriously hulp kry!
13 Sep 2012, 16:25 pm
@John Galt-9: WHERE THE HELL IS THE GUY WHO WAS SAYING THESE THINGS in this interview?
will the REAL heyneke meyer please stand up?
DIRECTOR of rugby Heyneke Meyer told Business Day yesterday he planned to turn the Blue Bulls back into a dominant franchise which plays a fluid, high-intensity running game.
From next year the Bulls will be without some of the trustees that have served them with aplomb — Fourie du Preez, Bakkies Botha, Danie Rossouw — and who have delivered trophies that some teams still dream of winning.
Meyer’s recruits thus far, Johan Sadie, JJ Engelbrecht and most recently Lionel Cronje, are fleet- footed backline players, a clear indication of the direction the team would be taking.
“I brought Pine (Pienaar) in who was a backline coach because I want to improve the way we’re playing. If you look at the guys we’ve recruited, they are very exciting backs.
“You always have a vision of how you want to play and then get players around that.
“We will always have a tough forward pack but we’ve looked at how the game has evolved,” Meyer said.
“If you stay the same you’ll never get ahead.”
The Bulls are in the same position they were when he started as coach in 2000, said Meyer, in that an overhaul is needed to reposition the team to the top.
Meyer listed five focal points he felt would give the union the edge over its rivals:
1. having the best coaching staff at all age group levels,
2. recruiting the best young talent,
3. implementing a winning culture,
4. ensuring an environment where players can grow to their full potential and changing the way the Bulls played.
“It’s not finalised yet but we are looking to get Victor Matfield in to help us with the lineouts.
“We are looking hard at the way we are going to play. We are busy with a lot of camps that (are set up) to have the whole union playing the same way.”
However the changes will not be without their casualties.
“The hard decisions we had to make (were) which players we want to keep and which we will let go,” Meyer said.
13 Sep 2012, 16:32 pm
Its 15 men against 15.
They all play their opposite number in Super rugby during a looong season. Tests are different compared to super rugby, but do the players differ? Steyn hasnt been the best 10 and poor Jantjies or Lambie should have had 6 extra caps to their names, because lets face it MS just havent been the best 10 for a while now. And now Goosen is taking the backseat.
Its frustrating. HM:
”Test matches are not about who plays the best, it’s about who handles the pressure best,”
What pure nonsense. Jantjies, Lambie or Goosen deserve a chance to prove themselves!
Id like a coach who picks the best and win or loses with the best. And that should not be too much to ask from a supporter.
13 Sep 2012, 16:36 pm
Good article. I feel sorry for him because he is clearly passionate about the job and I am sure has the Boks best interests at heart. However, the early signs are that he is a bit of a Trescothick and not capable of producing the goods at this level. Its sad because he is obvioulsy a good coach as his CV suggests, however pressure seems to be getting the better of him. Adapt or die, as the saying goes. Meyer is choosing to die.
13 Sep 2012, 16:41 pm
If they good enough to have made it on the bench then they’re good enough to start, **** this is professional rugby, the boks…. Amazes me.
13 Sep 2012, 16:45 pm
“I’m a big believer in a guy sticking to his strengths, and I think Morne is a great player in his own right. He doesn’t make a lot of mistakes, so I don’t think that he needs to change the way he plays. It’s more about the outside backs who must use their opportunities,” Meyer said.
13 Sep 2012, 16:49 pm
@wnbb-21: Meyer clearly has no knowledge if backline play.
13 Sep 2012, 16:49 pm
@TooMuchRugby-22:
if = of
13 Sep 2012, 16:50 pm
Lol morne is meyers best friend… But Yeah also the 12 and 13 that can’t pass a ball and takes it into traffic to b turned over, man atleast try offloading in the tackles… Must say we got players in the curriecup that could make up a bok team that could thump these guys
13 Sep 2012, 16:55 pm
@Gazelle-24:
I don’t know if that’s the way they are instructed to play, but man, they have been dissapointing thus far. I had high hopes for them as a combination.
13 Sep 2012, 16:57 pm
@wnbb-21: Yeah…..Morne doesn’t make a lot of mistakes….he also doesn’t make many line breaks….doesn’t put many players in gaps, barely ever gets over the advantage line, doesn’t score many tries…..and lately….doesn’t even have that many successful kicks for posts……
So…….what the f$ck is it that’s keeping this doos in the squad…..????
13 Sep 2012, 16:58 pm
@fitz1ella-6: Meyer had the credentials and was the best option given our team, but has since proven to be a fraud! Meyer is no rugby genius, he is a trick poney that has ridden the wave of success on the backs of superior rugby minds who happen to be players.
13 Sep 2012, 17:12 pm
Mallet as coach:
1 Guthro/ Beast (athletic LH)
2 Straus (solid hooker)
3 Mujati (scrumming first TH)
4 Etsebeth (enforcer #4)
5 Kruger (lineout secialist)
6 Brussouw (specialist fetcher)
7 Alberts (steam train ballcarrier)
8 Kanko/ Coetzee (skilled #8)
9 Pienaar (old head)
10 Lambie/ Goosen (attack minded FH)
11 Habana (hard working wing)
12 F Steyn (physically strong and skilled #12)
13 JDJ/ Jordaan (fast, stepping #13)
14 Mvovo (strong, fast winger)
15 Taute/ JP if fit (creative running FB)
16 Coenie (impact)
17 Beast/ Guthro
18 S Brits (impact)
19 Elstadt/ Bekker
20 Vermeulen (impact)
21 Hougard (impact)
22 Goosen(Impact)
13 Sep 2012, 17:13 pm
@grant10-5: I am betting that they will be bold and surprise everyone. Boks by 6. Piri Weepu? Come on – man for man we are not far off NZ
13 Sep 2012, 17:21 pm
@CT Shark-26: No clue.
13 Sep 2012, 17:30 pm
Players who could add value to the Springbok Squad:
- Heinrich Brussouw
- Gio Aplon
- Josh Strauss
- Ashley Johnson
- BJ Botha
- Paul Jordaan
- Schalk Britz
- Craig Burden
- Keagan Daniel
- Joe Van Niekerk
- Brian Mujati
- Elton Jantjies
- Quinn Roux
- Tonderai Chavangha
- Brent Russell
13 Sep 2012, 17:36 pm
@Horings-15: And don’t forget dropping Kruger for a clearly unfit out of form Bekker, after Kruger did fairly well in the England series.
13 Sep 2012, 17:42 pm
@Kaizan-31: Brent Russel? I agree with that list other than the last 2. I would add Jaco Taute to that list as well.
13 Sep 2012, 17:42 pm
Torture definitely another word for watching the Boks kick and pray.
13 Sep 2012, 17:45 pm
The only thing Keo can can give an expert opinion on is cocaineandharassinghookers. I don’t respect anything he and his team has to say about rugby, ***** he was probably a hockey player in high school.
Secondly everybody can moan and groan about Meyer as much as they, but he is gonna surprise us all, im sure of it. But he needs sometime and thats a given.
13 Sep 2012, 17:53 pm
IMPORTANT NOTICE:
Mujati will never play for boks again because he doesnt have SA passport.
And doesnt want one .
He wants to be brittish.
So ffs keep him off your fantasy teamsheets.
Its annoying.
13 Sep 2012, 17:54 pm
@lieflingblou-35: I think the only surprise we might get from Meyer is if he up and quits……
A man this stubborn and this pigheaded will surprise no-one. He’s determined that the ROUND peg WILL fit in the SQUARE hole……and he’s going to be the first person in history to prove it……!!
13 Sep 2012, 17:54 pm
@Marty-33: I’ve always been a fan of Brent. Apparently he is in good form at the moment… I was careful to use the word “could”… The players in that list COULD add value and should at least be considered, although there is no certainty about their form/ fitness etc…
I honestly think Chavangha has a few special attributes. He is ridiculously quick and has a very sharp step. Also, a few years back he topped the tackle list for wingers in the Super 12… Only problem is he struggles under the high ball. Hopefully a year at Newport Gwent will turn him into a more rounded player.
Check out a Youtube video called “Chavangha pace vs the blues”.
13 Sep 2012, 17:55 pm
@Hammer-36: But he’d fit in so nicely at the EP Kings………
13 Sep 2012, 17:57 pm
@Hammer-36: A good coach should at least have a go at convincing the player otherwise… He is a quality tight-head…. The biggest problem is whether he would be a disruption to the Boks due to his provocative attitude.
13 Sep 2012, 18:00 pm
I dont think he has passion for the jersey.
I could be wrong though.
13 Sep 2012, 18:02 pm
@Kaizan-38: I sat next to Brent at a wedding of a mutual mate – 2009. Awesome oke – he mentioned that S.A. shafted him with regards to shunting him around in different positions and not letting him settle in one position. He is 33 now I think – I don’t think he’s fast enough anymore. Chavanga has the inofficial ‘title’ of being the fastest rugby player with a recorded time of 10.28 seconds over 100m. What ever happened to him?
13 Sep 2012, 18:02 pm
@Hammer-41: I think you’re probably right.. Same DNA as Puke Watson. Damn shame.
I like the look of Marcel Van Der Merwe… Just been bought by the bulls. Could be a future Springbok tighthead. I know Os rates him highly.
13 Sep 2012, 18:05 pm
@Marty-42: True – South African tradition of moving a talented player around every position until he’s drained and then dropping him. One fears the same fate for Lambie.
Chavangha plays for Newport Gwent. Scored on debut for them… Hopefully he’ll develop over there and turn into another option for us.
13 Sep 2012, 18:08 pm
@goodstuff-28:
@Kaizan-31:
With everyone here knowing better that a guy with a couple of hundred games as coach under his belt, a guy who came through the ranks from coaching koshuis rugby at Tukkkies to building a very good Bulls team, maybe it’s time to let HM go and appoint the new coaching staff from Keo?
Keo could be the head coach, after all he knows better than anyone
Grant 10 could coach the forwards
Skoppie would have three jobs, backline coach (to play all the running rugby and score all those tries), head selector (to hand Neon Deon the no 2 Bok jersey) and also the team’s PRO (see how fast the journalists would wear out the “f” on their keyboards)
Transie would be the fitness coach and the team manager could be ET
13 Sep 2012, 18:13 pm
You have to take your hat off to John Smit now, he had so much to deal with, A the public .. sure he should not have been there was not good enough.. but we needed a captain. and with the likes of Matfield/botha/Spies/Rossouw and Du preez, they had PDV drummed into the HM and Bulls way of playing. but with Smit still there he could say no, and change it a little where he could.. thats why Aplon, JDJ made some game time. and Butch was called to play FH… now we have HM in full control G-d help us all.
13 Sep 2012, 18:26 pm
Meyer is a “dead coach walking”. He surrounded him with fools. They will all walk the plank in 2013.
13 Sep 2012, 18:28 pm
@victoriabok-45: Haha good post…. Don’t forget though, a person’s length of service is not always a determinant of his or her aptitude…. There are some coaches who have been around for ages but are still poor coaches (an example being Brian Ashton or Andy Robinson.. or PDV even)… Conversely, there are up and coming coaches who bring in new ideas and new ways of thinking and add loads of value. Jacque Nienaber is one example….. Ultimately what counts is results.
Public pressure is a good thing overall. Without it, anyone would be able to coach the Boks.
13 Sep 2012, 18:39 pm
Flip relishing NZ challenge
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2012-09-13 16:42
Cape Town – Eben Etzebeth’s two-week suspension means that the impressive lock will miss South Africa’s Rugby Championship Test against New Zealand in Dunedin on Saturday, but his replacement Flip van der Merwe is relishing the challenge of filling his team-mate’s boots.
According to the supersport.com website, the 27-year-old Van der Merwe has amassed 17 Test caps in his career but he has started only three of those matches.
Ironically, Van der Merwe’s last Test start was also against New Zealand, a 29-22 loss at Soccer City in 2010 and he said that there is probably a bit of unfinished business from that game.
“We were probably a bit unlucky in that game so I am very excited about Saturday’s Test,” said Van der Merwe.
South Africa are coming off a draw against Argentina and a loss to Australia while New Zealand are unbeaten in this year’s Rugby Championship, but the imposing Van der Merwe explained the current Springbok team were up for the challenge of beating the All Blacks in their own back yard.
“Every rugby player wants to wants to test himself against the best in the world and that is the challenge that we face on Saturday. New Zealand in New Zealand is probably one of the biggest challenges that there is.
“The belief that we can win is definitely there. We learnt a lot in the past two Tests and we have got better each week. The guys are starting to understand one another and our training this week was probably the best we have had on tour.
“If you pull on a Springbok jersey then you go out to win and that is what we will be doing on Saturday. Myself and (flank) Francois Louw are in the team to being a bit of experience and we are going out to win,” he said.
Van der Merwe has had to become used to being used off the bench but, although he acknowledges that he has got a chance because of Etzebeth’s suspension, he wants to prove that he is deserving of a regular starting role.
“The way the world works you have to take your chances but it’s very unfortunate for Eben. I think that I am in good shape and I think I am playing well. I have had an impact role in the previous tests and I am looking forward to bringing my playing style at the Bulls to the game. I want to show that I am capable of being a starting lock,” he explained.
Van der Merwe’s elevation to the starting XV will be helped in that he will lock the scrum with his Bulls’ team-mate Juandre Kruger, something that Van der Merwe is looking forward to.
“I am very happy to be playing with Juandre. Our lineouts worked well during Super Rugby and I think we can form a good partnership at four and five.”
New Zealand have named Sam Whitelock and Luke Romano as their starting locks with Brodie Retallick on the bench and Van der Merwe has a healthy respect for their abilities.
“Luke Romano and Brodie Retallick are in their first season of Test rugby but Sam Whitlock is an old hand and someone that Victor Matfield has said is one of the best locks in the world.”
New Zealand are expected to make full use of the covered Forsyth Barr Stadium in Dunedin to unleash their dangerous backs but Van der Merwe believes that South Africa are up for the challenge.
“I think that (fitness coach) Bazil Carsis and Heyneke have ensured that we are definitely one of the fittest international teams so if New Zealand want to run the ball they must run it. We will see how far that gets them,” he smiled.
13 Sep 2012, 18:41 pm
@Kaizan-48:
Brian Ashton, ya I remember that oke, once heard him say something very interesting which I think holds sway still today actually saw it in the Crusaders game v Cheetahs recently when Carter put Robbie Fruean away for a try.
He said that the most dangerous backline players are the ones that can drift/move whilst the ball languishes in the air after a player has passed them the ball.
13 Sep 2012, 18:45 pm
@TooMuchRugby-25 Yeah definatly disapointing. They both look like they dont know what to do and get backline pass fever…so they bash it up and get turned over, stead of an offload maybe
13 Sep 2012, 18:48 pm
flip van der merwe is just another useless heyneke meyer favourite who has done fokkol in a bok jersey except concede penalties (see bloem 2010 vs aussies) but is clocking the Bok caps
funny i haven’t heard any of the people who used to shout for chiliboy to do the “honourable thing and refuse Bok call up & selections” as they thought he was clearly not up to scratch…no such calls for domkop pottie or flip.
13 Sep 2012, 18:54 pm
@victoriabok-45: bwahahaha not a chance…the blou masjien management at the bokke has only coached 6 games & already you want to pass the buck?
we want the same thing heyneke said he believes in “winning rugby”
everything else isa bloody excuse!
13 Sep 2012, 18:56 pm
Ag **** man KEO. He will bring Goosen on in the last 40 when he will be most effective. What is the big song and dance you are making of all this in your article?
13 Sep 2012, 18:59 pm
@Kaizan-48:
Neither Ashton nor Robinson are bad coaches. They were both the victims of inheriting Woodwards RWC winners who believed their way was better than the coaches. Robinson has done wonders with limited resources in Scotland and Ashton was a highly successful and creative development coach.
13 Sep 2012, 18:59 pm
@The Analyst-54: Not cr$p,We don’t want Morne to play the first 40 minutes as well!
13 Sep 2012, 19:11 pm
@victoriabok-45: lol
13 Sep 2012, 19:11 pm
@wnbb-56: LMFAO…..well said!!!!
13 Sep 2012, 19:46 pm
Eventually, Meyer will be forced to take Morne out. I wonder what excuse he’ll give when that time comes.
13 Sep 2012, 19:53 pm
@Transformation-52:
flip brings nothing to the boks.
nothing.
13 Sep 2012, 19:55 pm
@lesiba-59: @lesiba-59: That’s going to take too long man!I see the Americans are sending the Marines to Egypt .Can’t we petition them to make a detour first to Dunedin?Just asking.
13 Sep 2012, 19:58 pm
When will this nightmare end? Even if Meyer replace Morne, who is to say that his stubbornness won’t cost us in the long term? The manner in which Meyer has started his tenure indicates that there is no clear vision here.
We’re dealing with a coach who feels he knows it all. We’re doomed
13 Sep 2012, 19:59 pm
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-60: He does bring something to the Boks as a team.
Added fuckingpressure.
13 Sep 2012, 20:00 pm
@wnbb-61:
Hahahahahahahahahahahaha
13 Sep 2012, 20:02 pm
@The Sharks rugby pedigree is packaged as dog food-63: lol.Could not have said it better.
13 Sep 2012, 20:03 pm
@ David-55 ashton’s win record for england was under-par and he got a vote of no confidence from his own players (most notably Lawrence Dallaglio)’ whilst Andy Robinsons record for both England and Scotland has been decidedly poor (around 50% win ratio for both)… Both Brian Ashton and Andy Robinson were sacked from England for under-performing…. Still many people believe one win against a depleted Aussie side makes you a good coach.
Anyway, the point remains… Results are what counts, not experience… An experienced coach is not necessarily a good coach. Just because Heyneke has many games under his belt, it does not follow that he is infallible.
I, for one, welcome opinions from the South African rugby public and the pressurised atmosphere this creates for coaches and players. It ensures a focus on results.
13 Sep 2012, 20:12 pm
@Transformation-52:
Kak, if I remember correctly your beloved PdV gave him his first cap?
13 Sep 2012, 20:18 pm
@Masipa-62:
> When will this nightmare end?
If you read what HM said instead of listening to the voices in your head you would have known that HM is grooming Goosen. If Goosen wasn’t injured he would have started against the Poms, HM is wise not to blood him against the AB’s, unlike St Nick who f-cked up Gaffie by doing the same
HM also said this tour was Morne and Hougie’s last chance, Hougie’s out on the wing already
> The manner in which Meyer has started his tenure indicates that there is no clear vision here.
Compared to who?
You?
AC?
> We’re dealing with a coach who feels he knows it all.
They all do, if they don’t believe in themselves they wouldn’t be able to stand the pressure
13 Sep 2012, 20:21 pm
@lesiba-62: There would probably be more long term damage just throwing Goosen in at the deep end now. Look at the way Henry stuck with his favoured Auckland son, Spencer, in 2004 tri nations but blooded Carter more and more until he exploded in 2005. Part of me wonders if Carter could have won us the semi in 2003 if he’d started but part of me knows it could have damaged him forever
13 Sep 2012, 20:27 pm
@victoriabok-67: I am not batting for Transformation here,but that’s exactly the point you seem to be missing.He was kak under PdV and for that exact reason Heyneke should have avoided him like the plague,but we know why he didn’t,now do we?
13 Sep 2012, 20:30 pm
@victoriabok-67: and still meyer sycophants like yourself inanely say pdv never blooded any talent during his tenure yet flip, dewalt, flo, lambie, coenie, hargreaves, johnson, de jongh, kirchner, aplon, kruger, mvovo, greyling, stegmann, bekker (if i recall correctly), beast, alberts, mcleod & fecking morne steyn were ALL capped for the 1st time by Dippy Divvy! hehehe
flip is useless at the bulls why is he in the bok squad NOW?
13 Sep 2012, 20:34 pm
@victoriabok-68: you must be getting senile…gaffie played against NH opposition – meaning he was “blooded” & had super rugby under his belt before playing against new zealand. mallett explained just this saturday just to dispel the fondly held myth.
13 Sep 2012, 20:44 pm
@Transformation-52:
@victoriabok-67:
Actually PdV gave him 11 (eleven) caps, not a case of a one off
13 Sep 2012, 20:46 pm
“if New Zealand want to run the ball they must run it. We will see how far that gets them”
hehehe, vok.
13 Sep 2012, 20:48 pm
@victoriaprick-68:
Listening to voices in my head? If you won’t address my points without throwing remarks about my character, then save your comments for someone else who cares about your opinions are with regard to HM’s plans. And YES, I have also read (and listened) to what his plans are. You A**WIPE. Just because you and I disagree about what his plans are doesn’t by default make YOU right. Arrogant pr*ck.
You say all coaches think they know it all otherwise “if they don’t believe in themselves they wouldn’t be able to stand the pressure.” Believing in yourself has nothing to do with you thinking you “know it all.” So I don’t know how you took my comment so out of context. Sheesh.
13 Sep 2012, 20:54 pm
@Hondo-73: Maybe he got something on PdV and Heyneke?
13 Sep 2012, 21:03 pm
@lesiba-75: aahh now u are learning fast on keo
13 Sep 2012, 21:34 pm
HM has become the george bush of rugby.
Best article from keohane I have ever read
13 Sep 2012, 21:52 pm
@hanneslom-78: So Keo called it wrong again at tyhe beginning of the season by stating that HM is the genius that we’d all been waiting for, clearly forgetting he is a brandy-gulping Pretorianer. Keo has now swung back to reality and is almost at the point where he is calling for his head. A clear difference is their comparisons of the two flyhalves. HM has stated that Morne and Goosen are very similar flyhalves, yip, no typo. Keo calls them opposites and I agree. I also think that most on this site agree with Keo, or is it that Keo eventually has come to his senses and agrees with us. So, this means that HM is delusional and totally out of touch with reality if he cannot see the glaring differences between these two players. The same can be said for the gameplan, that’s ‘not the problem’. A similar gameplan to WP under JDV Is JDV doing the same as Smit by pushing a gameplan that suites his limited playing style?
13 Sep 2012, 22:28 pm
@Kaizan-31:
- Heinrich Brussouw – Agree.
- Gio Aplon – In the last 20 minutes if we are ahead – so not in the next 10 tests.
- Josh Strauss – Probably.
- Ashley Johnson – Nope.
- BJ Botha – 50-50.
- Paul Jordaan – I’m super glad you mentioned him. Could be the next Gerber.
- Schalk Britz – Absolutely.
- Craig Burden – Yes.
- Keagan Daniel – Not really.
- Joe Van Niekerk – Yep.
- Brian Mujati – Was great the season before last and has gone backward since.
- Elton Jantjies – Definitely.
- Quinn Roux – Don’t know who he or she is.
- Tonderai Chavangha – No.
- Brent Russell – Not so sure as I haven’t seen him play in a while.
13 Sep 2012, 23:03 pm
@victoriabok-68: Actually quite thougjt provoking.
14 Sep 2012, 03:46 am
Actually he has selected a fetcher at last. He is no Harry Potter but this will change the dynamics of the usual NZL v RSA match.
14 Sep 2012, 05:29 am
“Turning adventure into torture – why?”
With that headline I thought the story might be a book review of “Fifty Shades of Grey”. A close, tight test between NZ and SA is always 80 minutes of torture, isn’t it? And adventure. I admit I’d like to see the Boks play a more expansive game, and not just because of the spectacle from a rugby fan’s point of view. If you lose to a side playing positive rugby instead of a 10-man game, somehow the defeat never feels as painful. I believe SA has the players to adopt a more open style, but now Heyneke has begun with a tighter, kick-laden game plan it would be hard on the players to suddenly switch the pattern on them mid-stream. Seriously, that’s a big ask and one that might be better left to the start of next season if you’regoing to rewrite the team blueprint. Steyn’s not the greatest flyhalf ever to pull on a jersey but he is certainly one of the greatest (THE greatest?) goalkickers the game has seen. He’s a proven matchwinner and dumping him would be a tough decision to make. He’d be ideal if rugby was like American football and you could wheel him out for the shots at goal, while having Goosen or Lambie direct proceedings at 10. And you can’t really hide him in another position such as wing, although he did play a test v Oz at 15 last year. Anyway, I never write off the Boks and wouldn’t be surprised if they won this weekend. When the heat’s on, and they’re underdogs, that’s when they’re likely to burn you. I’ve seen it happen often enough.
14 Sep 2012, 06:35 am
@Transformation-77:
LOL. I just don’t understand how some people can’t have a debate without making it personal. Most (if not all) of us are not rugby experts here but as fans, we each have a right to voice our opinions as we are supporters of the team. I find it laughable that when all things are gud, it’s fine for us to cheer. But when things look bad, we’re labelled “couch coaches” and basically told to shut up. To hell with that.
14 Sep 2012, 07:43 am
Let’s play….
Guess the Quote!:
Springbok coaches, without exception, have discarded players because of an expectation that they should be at 21 what they will only become at 27 or 28, when a mentality does not exist that guides a player towards staying an international player and not just becoming one.
The rugby media is equally culpable of influencing the selection or axing of a player because victory means everything in a country that needs good sports results on a Monday from their national teams.
You only have to read how easily established international players are written off for a youngster who towered above mediocrity in a domestic competition. Too rarely is there an applicable comparison and in my time as a rugby writer I’ve been as guilty as the next in looking for the next sensation to satisfy the thirst of writing about victories.
14 Sep 2012, 07:50 am
Let me know if you like this game, I got plenty more…
14 Sep 2012, 08:15 am
@PissAnt-85:
Very embraboer.
Keo is about as consistent Gaffie du Toits goal kicking.
14 Sep 2012, 08:31 am
Why can’t the journos say it like it is. This is simply a case of sticking with what he knows and who he is loyal too and that is the Bulls Rugby Union. He did not even look beyond the Bulls coaching staff when he selected his management & assistants so he has nobody who is either prepared to, or can give him a different perspective on player selections or game plans. It’s all about him. In business we call it micro management. Meyer is a control freak. Bekker slips a few tackles on guys half his size and Meyer dumps him and in comes Flip for Etzebeth. Bizarre!
14 Sep 2012, 08:36 am
@Stormtrooper-88: Soo what is Rassie Erasmus then?
14 Sep 2012, 08:37 am
HEYNEKE OUT!
14 Sep 2012, 08:39 am
@Stormtrooper-88:
Actually he asked alistair coetzee.
Who said no.
Wake up.
14 Sep 2012, 08:41 am
Zola Yeye is gatvol. The former Springbok team manager believes the South African Rugby Union has reneged on its development pact by giving the Eastern Province Kings only one guaranteed season in Super rugby. And he warns that South African rugby is in a state of denialism when it comes to transformation.
Save & Share
Tweet EmailPrint”They’ve thrown the Kings a hospital pass,” says Yeye, the SABC’s Eastern Cape regional manager.
“It would be a miracle if the team find the right mix and stay up in the first year. It’s like giving birth to a baby and expecting it to be winning academic prizes when it is a year old. Saru didn’t give the same conditions to other franchises, who are doing whatever they like.”
If Super Rugby history is any guide, the freshmen Kings are likely to finish bottom of the South African Conference.
They would then have to win a play-off against the Lions to stay in the tournament.
The rationale behind their promotion – that the Kings should blaze a trail for black rugby – would be defeated if they were relegated.
For Yeye, the decision not to protect the Kings project is symptomatic of the lack of transformation in rugby.
“In the 20 years since unity, we’ve seen only cosmetic changes,” he says.
“There have been sparks of change here and there, but we haven’t produced much.
“It’s ridiculous that now people are even asking, what is transformation? Why can’t we define it? This country is in transformation.”
“I’m not saying that black players should be parachuted into teams,” he says.
“But all the franchises have to show commitment. Players don’t select themselves, they get selected by individuals.”
Yeye also bemoans “poaching” of Eastern Province rugby’s finest schoolboy talent by the big unions – who then fail to pick them at senior level.
“Our players get frustrated in Gauteng, Durban and Cape Town, then come back here and end their careers.”
But surely Eastern Province rugby officialdom have only themselves to blame for losing their stars – most recently Siya Kolisi and Lwazi Mvovo – to richer and better-managed unions?
Until the election of Cheeky Watson as president, the Eastern Province Rugby Union was ruled by a procession of suits almost as incompetent as the political leadership in the province.
That legacy cannot be blamed on the actions of Bulls or Sharks executives.
Much has been made of the powerful base of rugby schools in the province, but the pockets of excellence, such as Grey and Dale, allow for official complacency about the neglect elsewhere. Township schools rugby remains hugely under-resourced, with some notable exceptions such as Ithembelihle, Molly Blackburn and Ndzondelelo.
And, whenever black and coloured schools or clubs do defy the odds and excel, they haemorrhage talent to their largely white rivals and fall back into mediocrity. The Uitenhage coloured club Progress defeated mighty Maties a few years ago, and promptly lost all its kingpins to neighbouring Despatch.
The pattern is similar in other provinces, but the region is a special case. It’s one of those rare corners of the rugby world where the game is deeply rooted in the working class.
That’s why the fate of the Kings matters so much to the future of the local game: the franchise must “energise the base” and make the game an engine of social mobility in a deeply depressed community.
“Rugby is no longer an innocent sport. It’s economics, it’s tourism, it’s so many things. It’s huge. People who’ve never come to Port Elizabeth before will come here. Businesses on the brink of collapse will have the chance to survive,” says Yeye.
“I’ve been with Cheeky in the trenches for many years. He’s a committed individual. But he cannot change rugby alone. He needs assistance from everyone. The Kings must survive, they must succeed. We’ve been waiting for this too long.”
It helps that one of the city’s working-class heroes, 2010 World Cup supremo Danny Jordaan, has bequeathed a R2-billion stadium as the city’s new temple of rugby.
The authorities say Nelson Mandela Bay stadium will start to break even next year. If it does, it will be first World Cup ground to escape white elephant status.
Watson traces the weakness of amateur black rugby back to unity in 1992.
“The previously disadvantaged have always focused on reconciliation more than restitution. The non-racialists have made every effort to ensure unity.
“But what unity did was to destroy rugby in the townships, because white clubs were far more advantaged. Back in the day, extended families were involved in black clubs.
“Members would get together to help families in need. But that whole social structure was broken down by unity. Clubs merged and poorer clubs had to compete against those who were steeped in the benefits of the apartheid economy.”
Saru reckons that the dizzying sum of R500-million has been spent on rugby development since 1992. During that period, a total of about 50 black Boks have been selected, most of them very briefly.
“This is the only region where you have equal support for rugby across all different races.
“The crowd for the Bok test here this year was magnificently mixed. This region can effect reconciliation in a tremendous way.
“It can be a beacon of hope,” says Watson.
14 Sep 2012, 08:44 am
Hmmmm…. SABC’s Eastern Cape regional manager.
I’d say you’ve got bigger problems on your plate pal.
14 Sep 2012, 08:45 am
@Peter Mkata-92: The whole South African Government is in a state of denialism when it comes to transformation.
So nothing new there.
PS don’t you just love the colour of the Union’s new signings???
Excellent for transformation.
14 Sep 2012, 08:46 am
@Peter Mkata-92:
An article in today’s edition of The Times.
14 Sep 2012, 08:49 am
@stormersboy-94:
One black and one orange?
14 Sep 2012, 08:53 am
Heyneke Meyer’s game plan: “we must bash the ball straight up the middle to suck in defenders. Once we have created an overlap, we must kick it because we have more chasers than they have people to catch the kicked ball. If this does not work, then you have failed to play to our strengths and failed to correctly implement this game plan. But do not fear, you will have another chance to implement this genius game plan next week.”
14 Sep 2012, 08:54 am
@gunther-96: Yip.
Orange-you glad you support the Bulls??
14 Sep 2012, 08:57 am
@stormersboy-98:
Joh.
The way they are playing I would ship the whole bunch to the Kings.
14 Sep 2012, 09:01 am
@gunther-99: Don’t be Cheeky…
14 Sep 2012, 09:04 am
@stormersboy-100:
In other news I see Sabc employees are complaining that they have been told not to give Fat Juju anymore publicity.
Democracy in action.
14 Sep 2012, 09:12 am
@gunther-101: Hehe don’cha just love it.
14 Sep 2012, 09:12 am
@scrumfan-97:
Yep, that pretty much sums it up.
14 Sep 2012, 09:26 am
@PissAnt-85: sounds like David Campese
14 Sep 2012, 09:34 am
@PissAnt-85: is it Steven Seagull?
14 Sep 2012, 09:39 am
Comparing players from each side outta 10.
All Blacks –
15 Israel Dagg, 9
14 Cory Jane, 8
13 Conrad Smith, 8
12 Ma’a Nonu,7
11 Julian Savea, 8
10 Aaron Cruden, 8
9 Piri Weepu, 6
8 Kieran Read, 9
7 Richie McCaw (c),10
6 Liam Messam, 7
5 Sam Whitelock, 6
4 Luke Romano, 6
3 Owen Franks, 7
2 Andrew Hore, 6
1 Tony Woodcock, 8
Springboks –
15 Zane Kirchner, 3
14 Bryan Habana, 6
13 Jean de Villiers (c), 5
12 Frans Steyn, 8
11 Francois Hougaard, 8
10 Morné Steyn, 2
9 Ruan Pienaar, 4
8 Duane Vermeulen, 6
7 Willem Alberts, 6
6 Francois Louw, 7
5 Juandre Kruger, 4
4 Flip van der Merwe, 3
3 Jannie du Plessis, 4
2 Adriaan Strauss, 4
1 Beast Mtawarira. 7
14 Sep 2012, 09:42 am
@garth-106: beast and jannie need a rest, they’ve been going hammer and tong for the past 3 months NON-STOP, the likes of woodcock were chilling long time as the Blues got knocked the feck out eons ago! same with hore & mealamu…
14 Sep 2012, 09:45 am
@Transformation-107: I agree they are not on their best form and it would be great if they can really step up tomorrow. Strauss is also tired from playing wing at the Cheetahs
14 Sep 2012, 10:02 am
@garth-106: Nonu seems a bit unpopular on this site. Sure, he had a mare of a super15 but he often does. Once he puts on the black jersey he’s a line breaking machine – ask John Smit. At least every second game he scores or set up a try. Maybe he loses the ball in contact once in a while, but not like in his younger years. I petition you to give out half points – take half a point from Savea and give it to Nonu
14 Sep 2012, 10:06 am
@Transformation-104:
its probably keo.
14 Sep 2012, 10:07 am
@shooter-105:
No, but similar to Steven, some do question his talent in his chosen profession.
14 Sep 2012, 10:09 am
@i_love_u_bakkiesbotha-110: Pine Pienaar on the Bulls…why can’t Heyneke “FREE” or Boks like this
“I don’t think the scoreline reflects how much we improved from the previous match against WP.”
Pienaar said this week the focus has been very much on the mental aspects.
“I don’t want the guys to doubt each other and doubt what we are doing,” he told this website, adding: “We must go to Kimberley with a positive attitude.
“I don’t want them to be scared to try things … they must have the freedom to play if they see something is on. I want to empower them to express themselves.
“The moment you start worrying about losing, it takes the focus off what you can do and that is the message that we brought across this week.
“The key is that individuals should not attempt to do things on their own, we should work as a team to achieve what we set out. At times against WP and the Lions guys became a touch too individualistic. If we are under pressure, we must continue to function as a team.
“I don’t want the players to be scare to go out and play and do what we worked on in training.
“As long as they believe in the system, it will happen.
“I want to see them go out there and have the courage to try the things we worked on, enforce our game on them. If you don’t do that, you end up playing against yourself and that was one of our biggest problems against WP and the Lions.
“We have such dynamic young players, who bring a different dimension to the game, and you want to see them express themselves.”
14 Sep 2012, 10:16 am
News24: I dont get this…
JDV:
“We’ve obviously got a game plan that we believe in and we will probably stick to that,” “But if it allows us to throw the ball around and we can see the space out wide we’ll definitely try and take it into that space.”
When does the opposite team ever allow you to use space??? Space needs to be created. Shouldnt that be part of the plan? You cant just kick and hope at some point you are given an opportunity to run!? What ****.
MS: “We as a team also work on things and try to move the ball as well but we’re not just kicking the ball away, we are kicking for a reason. I think that’s what people outside don’t realise.”
No one is denying that a good kicking game is important to dominate, but then selecting a second rate 10 and and having an ineffective gameplan is embarrassing at this point. If that ‘opportunity’ ever comes shouldnt you have a decent 10 to launch a attack?
How long should bok supporters just take their word for it?
Criticism will always be there and you cant keep everyone happy, but even if all viewers from all corners of the world note the same shortcomings, shouldnt that be an indication that HM just might be wrong.
“Ive been in this situation before….” No you havent Meyer. Not at this level and this time you just might not laugh last.
14 Sep 2012, 10:16 am
@lieflingblou-35: Pffffff…….
14 Sep 2012, 10:18 am
@garth-106: Garf, why Hougaard on 8… Whats he done on the wing lately?
At least Habanero scored a try.
Why Louw on 7… he’s played not even half a match.
Why Kirchner on 3… He certainly hasnt set the world alight but he farken hasn’t done too much wrong either…
Naah, I reckon you smoking the same Kiwi apologetic ganja Transie and Doggy are…
14 Sep 2012, 10:20 am
Cut and paste from keo’s story
“As much as I hate the emphasis put on the World Cup it is a reality of the sport and the game works in four year cycles. ”
It is a disgrace that the likes of Keo actually accepts the concept that the game works in a 4 year cycle culminating with the RWC.
Utter rubbish. NZ became besotted with the goal of getting another cup win after 1987, simply because of the embarrassment of finding new ways of coming up short, best illustrated by the idiotic effort in 2007 with the rotation and conditioning program.
I never bought into it, win every test, that is surely the goal.
Hansen looks to be of a similar mind to me, and is putting out teams that he is looking to achieve peak performance each game, irrespective of the opposition.
So far it is best described as a work in progress, but at least the strategy is set.
When he loses. there will be no excuses about building for the 4 year cycle finale.
14 Sep 2012, 10:23 am
@Heavens Game-115: hey fokkof!
have you seen me post ratings?
14 Sep 2012, 10:23 am
@Transformation-107: No worries, but the point I am trying to make is that our players that are over here are not up to it. I am not saying that it’s impossible, but we’d need some luck.
14 Sep 2012, 10:28 am
@Brads-116: ‘It is a disgrace that the likes of Keo actually accepts the concept that the game works in a 4 year cycle culminating with the RWC.’
It’s not so much a concept as a reality Brads.
@Heavens Game-115: yeah, everyone seems to get on sideshow’s case but objectively he hasn’t badly at all
14 Sep 2012, 10:29 am
@Transformation-117: Forgive him Transie, for he knows not what he does
@Big Hit-119: Zane is a solid, dependable player. Lambie is just better, imo.
14 Sep 2012, 10:29 am
@Heavens Game-115: This is test rugby. if you are not setting the world a light you are doing something wrong.
14 Sep 2012, 10:31 am
@mikeybrass-120: not disagreeing, but it’s not a comparison with Lambie just an assessment of how Kirchner has played
14 Sep 2012, 10:33 am
@Transformation-112:
he will transie
he will
14 Sep 2012, 10:34 am
@Brads-116:
And after last year’s RWC, he was one of the first to say we should never allow this to happen again in SA Rugby as it promotes mediocrity.
14 Sep 2012, 10:38 am
Pissant – I still feel there is maybe a method to HMs madness, as we are calling it.
HM knows The Goose is the future for the Boks but he is adamant not to hurt him at this stage of career by throwing him in the deep end. It is a shame that Lambie is being over looked but HM still needs a few players of colour in his team otherwise etc etc.
HM also has alot of injuries, alot, so i have a feeling he has gone for the common game plan to begin with and little by little bring in a more rounded game plan.
As we all know HM is very pragmatic and what we are seeing is pragmatism!!
14 Sep 2012, 10:39 am
@Big Hit-119:
You are sadly correct, but it is no less of a disgrace that the media condone it.
14 Sep 2012, 10:43 am
@race of tan-125:
Absolutely, hence my sarcastic quote exercise above. Calls to sack Heyneke is quite simply absurd. The writing on his apparent game plan and execution of it and his selections is exactly the same rubbish that was written in 2008 about PDV.
14 Sep 2012, 10:43 am
@PissAnt-124:
To be fair, unless I have missed it, Meyer hasn’t actually come out and said he is working on a plan that might have some early setbacks.
All I have seen is he is …limited
14 Sep 2012, 10:47 am
@PissAnt-124: This entry was posted on Thursday, November 30th, 2006 at 6:00 am
Why results matter
Keo, in his News 24 column, writes that if Jake White has to pay R350 to watch the Boks lose every Saturday he’ll also start believing test results are important.
If five wins out of 12 is acceptable fare for the Springboks then don’t waste your time on a World Cup ticket in 2007.
Jake White has told us not to judge him on five wins out of 12, but on what his strongest team could do at the World Cup – the kind of team that has beaten the All Blacks in the past few years, but also that team that lost in Dublin to Ireland and at Twickenham to England.
For the moment, let’s forget about the losses and concentrate on the wins, even if they haven’t been that many.
And let’s look at who achieved our famous wins for the Bok coach.
The Boks, if they put together their strongest team, can beat anyone on their day. How often have I heard this in the past 12 months? Hell, I’ve even said it myself on more than 10 occasions.
But will the Boks ever put out their strongest team? And does such a thing actually exist?
The Bok coach has said often this year that the ideal match 22 he has in his mind has (in 37 tests) never played. That could be because they’re all New Zealanders, but we’ll give Jake the benefit on this one and actually believe they are all South Africans.
Then, what is the best XV? Is it an ageing Percy Montgomery or a youthful Francois Steyn? Schalk Burger, Juan Smith, Danie Rossouw, Pierre Spies, Kabamba Floors and Pedrie Wannenburg don’t go into three. It can only be one of Ricky Januarie or Fourie du Preez at scrumhalf … the best to beat Ireland is perhaps a different best to beat New Zealand.
You need bulk to batter the Kiwis, but more mobility to see off the Wallabies. Which is better and what makes one player better than the other? One’s skill could be potent in a particular game plan and not a factor when played in a different combination.
It is fantastic to develop depth and to have two or more players to cover every position. But the moment a team reaches that level, what they gain in quality they lose in talk of a best team. The latter term then no longer exists because you can only play 15 at one time.
So when Jake White says his best team can beat the All Blacks and whoever else at the World Cup and win it, who is this best team he has developed over three years?
You’d have to say Steyn has overtaken Montgomery, even if White won’t be as quick to agree with you. You’d have to say Bryan Habana’s shares have dropped, even if White won’t agree with you. You could argue a place has to be made for Wynand Olivier and that Jaque Fourie and Jean de Villiers aren’t as good as we’d like to think. Of the flyhalves Andre Pretorius rose from the dead at Twickenham, but only next year will tell us if the life in his international career has 12 months or more. Can Butch James’s knees take another year and will Meyer Bosman come good?
At scrumhalf there’s Ruan Pienaar, Januarie and Du Preez. Who do you play against whom?
The loosies number 10, but only three can start. We know who the locks will be, we know who the hooker will be if White takes the team to the World Cup and we know who the loosehead prop will be, even though White keeps on bemoaning Gurthro Steenkamp’s absence. If he can breathe, Os du Randt will be there.
Given this little exercise you can’t say with any certainty after three years of White’s coaching which is the best 15 out of the 64 players he has used.
And I seriously doubt White can tell us who they are either.
This brings me back to results and the need to win more than you lose every Saturday during the test match season.
White (Meyer) has to be judged on the team he picks every test and on the subsequent results. If we do that we are dealing in tangibles.
If we start buying into the ‘judge me at the World Cup’ and ‘when I pick my ideal team’ then we may as well stop keeping score on a Saturday and all sign up for the fantasy league.
And if we do that then SARU may as well stop charging outrageous cash for test match tickets.
Professional coaches are well paid to do a job and that job is about each Saturday and not 44 supposedly meaningless tests between World Cups; tests that cost the punter more than R350 a pop.
Sorry Jake (Heyneke), but you have to be judged on a 59 percent win record in the last three years. No more and no less.
If SARU’s bosses believe that is acceptable, then you should stay. If not, then get in the queue for a World Cup ticket and you’ll soon start seeing that when you are paying every test result does actually count. When you’re cashing big dollars to watch a team, you are entitled to performance and not four year promises from coaches.
I’ve said it often: the World Cup has become a four year excuse for the majority of the game’s coaches. The World Cup should be a bonus to winning more test matches in four years than you actually lose.
14 Sep 2012, 10:49 am
@Brads-128:
You are limited by many things in test rugby not by your own doing.
Time is one – To prepare, to implement, to refine, to perfect.
Injuries, conditioning and unavailability of players – Part of the game, but plays a huge part.
Expectation – Some of this you create yourself, most is created by the media and public. When context is offered, it’s labelled as excuses.
14 Sep 2012, 10:51 am
@Transformation-129:
And its one of thousands Trans. And to be fair, its not only Keo – **** even Andy Capastagnio has find an excuse to write nowadays. What the hell is this world coming to?
14 Sep 2012, 10:51 am
@PissAnt-127:
All well and good. But he needs to at least demonstrate the ability to be flexible.
Or is this some master plan whereby he will unleash secret tactics no one thought him capable of and steamroll all and sundry at RWC2015 .
14 Sep 2012, 10:53 am
@PissAnt-130: It comes down to this. A coach is paid to make the most of his resources. Can you say Meyer is doing this?
14 Sep 2012, 10:55 am
@Brads-132: heyneke himself said like us the only kind of rugby he subscribes to is winning rugby, no kak about losing because you’re building, i personally won’t accept it!
14 Sep 2012, 10:57 am
@Big Hit-133:
Question is according to who?
I might not agree with some of his selections in his team, but I also do not agree with a lot of what people are suggesting for instance.
I don’t get judged on what I do, he does, and I am yet to meet a coach that plans to lose.
14 Sep 2012, 10:58 am
@Brads-132: @Big Hit-133: different conundrum facing richie and his boys: how to please arrogant kiwi fans? *
“The All Blacks captain is clearly torn between two ideals. He understands that winning is the be-all and end-all at this level. But, gee, Richie McCaw wouldn’t mind sending some fans off into the night with smiles on their faces.
This is the thing with leading the All Blacks. Two obligations come with the territory – winning and entertaining, and your fans infinitely prefer you to do both at the same time.
So as McCaw faced the media at the traditional captain’s run today, on the eve of their final home test for the year against the Springboks at Dunedin’s Forsyth Barr Stadium, you could see he was just ever so slightly conflicted.
Beating the Boks used to be all that mattered, regardless of how it was achieved. And victory tomorrow night will all but secure the inaugural Rugby Championship title with still two road matches to go.
But these are changing times, and All Blacks fans these days expect their team to entertain and enthral, as well as to enter wins in the victory column.”
*just teasing Brads
14 Sep 2012, 11:09 am
@Transformation-136:
Fair comment Trans.
The expectation of the average AB supporter is for the Bokke to get dorked. That is not going to happen period.
The really embarrassing losses to NZ have been at home, and each time the Bokke have been complacent, expecting their home advantage to be enough.
This is not the case here. If anything, it is the AB’s who have a head space problem
14 Sep 2012, 11:21 am
BTW… Where is Tac?
14 Sep 2012, 11:36 am
@PissAnt-130: Pissant, why can NZ maintain an 85% winning record in test matches over 5 years and we struggle to manage 65%?
14 Sep 2012, 11:37 am
@Big Hit-122: Zane is a “what you see is what you get” player. He does the basics well within his limitations. He always gives it his all.
14 Sep 2012, 11:37 am
Just to rub it in about the need to change.
ITM Cup game going on right now between Otago and Counties Manukau.
The off loading skills and space awareness of these guys is amazing.
2 years ago this match up would have been a colossal win for Otago, now the South Auckland pirates are crushing the traditional heavy weights.
SBW .. he showed the way.
14 Sep 2012, 11:39 am
@logie_Jumpbuck-139: As well as we do as individual franchises, we have yet to instill a base level of basic skills and a playing platform which can be carried over into how the national coach wishes to play. We simply don’t have that platform which makes the job of the national coach more difficult. Every Bok coach has complained about this re-admission.
Meyer doesn’t help himself by making some questionable selections into the bargain.
14 Sep 2012, 11:40 am
@Brads-141: We need a clear-out of the old guard.
14 Sep 2012, 11:51 am
The record no of wins in a row is under threat. It currently stands at 17, held by the Boks under Nic Mallet in 1998, and the ABs in 1970.
New Zealand:
Streak began on September 18, 1965 with a 20–3 win over South Africa in Auckland.
Streak ended in July 1970 with a 17–6 loss to South Africa in Pretoria.
South Africa:
Streak began on August 23, 1997 with a 61–22 win over Australia in Pretoria.
Streak ended on December 6, 1998 with a 13–7 loss to England at Twickenham.
(14) – 15 Sep All Blacks v Springboks Dunedin
(15) – 30 Sep Pumas v All Blacks La Plata
(16) – 07 Oct Springboks v All Blacks Johannesburg
(17) – 20 Oct All Blacks v Australia Brisbane
(18) – 12 Nov All Blacks v Scotland Edinburgh
(19) – 18 Nov All Blacks v Italy Rome
(20) – 25 Nov All Blacks v Wales Cardiff
(21) – 02 Dec All Blacks v England London
14 Sep 2012, 11:54 am
@logie_Jumpbuck-139:
Well @mikeybrass-142: touched on it in his point with imo key on the word ‘individual’.
If test rugby is an extension, or result of Super Rugby then the results you refer to is not that surprising at all.
Yesterday I quoted some stats on wins between SA and NZ home and away. Where individually we might celebrate 3 teams in the SR play-off’s looking a bit deeper you will find that none of those three teams are able to beat the best NZ teams consistently.
This year only the Bulls beat the Crusaders at home – Stormers lost against them (away) and Sharks did not face them. Chiefs beat the Bulls, Sharks at home and in the final and Stormers did not face them.
This trend is repeated year in and year out unfortunately with the exception of 2010 when the Stormers and Bulls played in the final.
We win less than 30% of games in NZ on average and allow them to win over 50% when they play in South Africa.
Point is, we are not as good as we think compared to them.
Another point to consider and quite importantly imo, is how our franchises seem to work against Bok rugby (and coaches) whereas in NZ its quite the opposite. This is as much an administrative issue (how our structures work against theirs) as it is a rugby issue.
If you talk about winning 80% + of your games in an international calendar which has 12 to 14 tests a year on average, you are looking to achieve 11 victories out of 14 games played (3 losses only).
Even in our best year in recent times, 2009 (B&I LIons tour, 3N winners beating AB’s 3 times) we only achieved 67% win margin in the year.
Of course it is not impossible, but if you have articles like this (and Ryan yesterday) suggesting its okay to sacrifice test results if we can at least develop talent while doing it you should get an idea why we are not achieving it.
I mean what if that young prodigious talent suffers a season ending injury in his first game of Super Rugby next year?
Lastly as came out in this and other articles, if we revert to ‘but by the time of the next World Cup we can be world beaters’ mentality you will also never achieve this.
14 Sep 2012, 11:55 am
@Brads-141: Tana is doing a good job there, i enjoyed watching Daniel Adongo monster into rucks last week
14 Sep 2012, 11:58 am
@blik-144: if they beat us at Soccer City, they’ve got it!
14 Sep 2012, 12:00 pm
@mikeybrass-142: that doesn’t answer my question though. We know that commercially south african rugby is way ahead of NZ. In fact, we are the stronger of the 3nations finacially. But when it comes to rugby, we lack consistancy….big time.
I believe the answer lies in our players mental strength and the polynesian gene pool. They are bigger, faster and stronger than us…..just like Jamaica’s sprinters are bigger and stronger than anyone else in the world. It’s simple physics.
14 Sep 2012, 12:02 pm
Get rid of Zane Kirchner now !! Juandre Kruger should go back and play some currie cup , Jean de villiers to 12 and Juan de jongh to 13 , Frans can cover on the bench , lambie at 15
14 Sep 2012, 12:04 pm
@logie_Jumpbuck-148: better systems in place in NZ , look at the standard of ITM cup vs currie cup , S15 unions pull players from these sides, best players who are then still on offer can get contracted by other unions.
14 Sep 2012, 12:08 pm
@PissAnt-145: I still believe it comes down to NZ’s access to talented polynesians. If you compare our record vs. NZ pre-islolation you will find that were were pretty much on par (SA leading by a few games won) but then they hardly had any Maori’s playing for them. They were lilly white teams.
Compare that to now and you will find that over the past ten years NZ rugby teams have been domintated by larger, faster and stronger stock.
Just my opinion.
14 Sep 2012, 12:09 pm
@logie_Jumpbuck-151: Proper training and skills.
14 Sep 2012, 12:12 pm
@logie_Jumpbuck-148:
That is the most ridiculous, and defeatest comment possible.
Poly’s are not some super breed of rugby freaks.
14 Sep 2012, 12:14 pm
@logie_Jumpbuck-151:
Now you are being a **** head
14 Sep 2012, 12:14 pm
@logie_Jumpbuck-148: I’m not sure where you got commercial from in my post which, along with Pissant’s, addresses your question.
14 Sep 2012, 12:14 pm
@logie_Jumpbuck-148: “just like Jamaica’s sprinters are bigger and stronger than anyone else in the world. It’s simple physics.”
NO! nothing about genes, jamaica has always had talented sprinters but no infranstructure or organised program to nurture the talent. sprinters like merlene ottey were alwyas a cut above the rest but had to move to US colleges to train and get proper coaching! Now a kid like Usain Bolt who was seen at 14 and groomed in Jamaica rules the world because they’ve jacked up their programs now the Yohan Blakes are also coming through…
if they stayed archaic in their structures they’d still be behind the US!
14 Sep 2012, 12:16 pm
Ah keow reminded me why I find the comments on keow so much better than the actual articles. Does little keow really expect a relatively fragile 20 year old to suddenly transform a lacklustre Bok team to beat the best team in the world at home? The Boks have the ability but I can’t see it turning on Goosen who, if he turned out to be a threat, would get one marginally illegal coconut tackle and be history.
It’s not the varking players! It’s the coach and his team that are letting us down. SA teams gave the best of Oz and NZ a fair rogering in the S15. Now the Boks fall apart. Not just at flyhalf although Morne is kicking like he’s had a good rogering (can’t we bring on Perce as a blood bin sub for the kicks?).
Asseblief manne, If your coaches cannot seems unable to coach scrums, lineouts, support play, defence and discipline the Boks will get shunted. The only thing I agree with keow on is that the Boks miss the gifted players that didn’t need much coaching (or got it from others). Like the ANC, Meyer should re-think his deployed cadres.
14 Sep 2012, 12:19 pm
@logie_Jumpbuck-151: So why did we lose to Oz? I think it has something to do with dumb coaches.
14 Sep 2012, 12:21 pm
@logie_Jumpbuck-151: it is your opininon but it is ridiculous nonetheless!
NZ and Aus seem to be streets ahead of SA in terms of recruiting kids to play rugby whereas in SA it is still seen as political football that every kid that wants to play rugby must have access to proper facilities and coaching…
what should be a simple change of mindset is then referred to as “transformation” and then pilloried because inevitably some see rugby still as theirs only to treasure.
you speak about “lily white” all black teams of yester-year, how did they all of a sudden change, were they forced?
14 Sep 2012, 12:22 pm
@husky-157: The Aussies throw in their gifted youngsters. Get Goosen up to full match fitness and chuck him in.
14 Sep 2012, 12:23 pm
It was actually disturbing to hear thoughts from the kicking coach Louis Koen last night on Boots & All.
He talked at length about stats, basically reiterating the basis of Meyer’s game plan. In their minds, the issue is that the kicks are key and the chase is where things are going wrong.
Gentlemen, gentlemen
What exactly is the problem? Are you too close to the action and cannot get a macro view of what’s going on? Is this the classic manager vs leader debate?
The manager wants to micro manage, that is: control every single thing …
Now we have to say that that is actually a sign of immaturity and insecurity. The leader needs to cast a vision of what he wants and then the team, seniors in the team, must work out exactly how they will go about it. Then build in what if scenarios so you’re never without a plan.
Meyer should have chosen stronger assistants, absolute control will come back to bite, that’s for sure.
14 Sep 2012, 12:23 pm
Ok, I may be wrong. I simply refer to statistics, and they don’t lie. NZ are maintaining an 85% winning record, We struggle to hold a 65% margin. WHY? I refuse to believe it’s the system, because we have a great system in SA with the world’s oldest and most respected domestic comp in the Currie Cup.
14 Sep 2012, 12:26 pm
@PielNeus-14: HAHAHAHAHAHA dis is die f0kken snaakste ding wat ek in n lang ruk gekyk het!
Dankie Pielietjie!
14 Sep 2012, 12:31 pm
@Transformation-129:
Transie, how do you “unbold” in the middle of a paragraph/sentence?
14 Sep 2012, 12:33 pm
@PissAnt-130: All national coaches stuggle with those obstacles you mentioned.
We cannot put time forward as an excuse.
14 Sep 2012, 12:35 pm
@logie_Jumpbuck-162: Refusal? Therein lays the entire problem with our rugby.
14 Sep 2012, 12:36 pm
@logie_Jumpbuck-162: if you aren’t willing to open your mind up to alternative opinion then why debate?
having “structures like the currie cup”
means nothing if they’re archaic and they actually need to be streamlined! what does the currie cup have to do with NZ 85% win ratio and how the NZRU in their administration focuse everything down to player contracts and placing for the benefit of the All Blacks and not individual unions…
for example: in NZ they’d never allow the bulls to stock pile all the BEST talent to sit behind wynand olivier and jj engelbrecht all in the name of they can afford cos they’re a BIG union.
the whole myopic focus on Craven week kids and ignoring of the rest is also a flaw imo of the “structures” you brag about…francois hougaard never played craven week and if he wasn’t resilient would’ve fallen out of the system and lost to our rugby…there’s loads of talent untapped because our structures are only concerned about those that come out of the funnel.
14 Sep 2012, 12:36 pm
@logie_Jumpbuck-151:
Don’t let Tac see that. He won’t like it one bit.
According to him the Afrikaners are the boys perfectly build for rugby.
BIG and STRONG.
14 Sep 2012, 12:36 pm
@Sheriff-161: Stronger assistants? Please name others who were available at the time and who wanted to work with the Boks?
14 Sep 2012, 12:42 pm
@nama1-168: it’s the jeans
you “open” the bold and “close” it only on the phrases you want boldened and
14 Sep 2012, 12:44 pm
@mikeybrass-169: brendan venter…hawies fourie…
14 Sep 2012, 12:50 pm
@Transformation-171: None of Meyer’s first choice assistants were available or wanted to come. We cannot end up in a situation where we have three or more coaches with different philosophies ala PdV’s days.
14 Sep 2012, 12:51 pm
@logie_Jumpbuck-151:
But that argument has no substance ’cause yes pre-isolation the AB’s didn’t have as much access to the polynesians but the Boks had no access to non-whites.
Same difference.
14 Sep 2012, 12:55 pm
@Jeraldjay-173: no bud, thats not true.
compare the number of polynesian players to the number of black players and you may see the whole picture.
14 Sep 2012, 12:56 pm
@willievz-165:
Not as an excuse, as context.
Apply it as the latter and you might just get logical reason.
14 Sep 2012, 12:56 pm
@Transformation-170:
So what do you type before the phrases you want to bold
That’s not an explanation, man.
14 Sep 2012, 12:56 pm
@rangerman-174:
So maybe we need more blecks in the team then.
14 Sep 2012, 13:01 pm
@Jeraldjay-177: we need all the talent we can get.
bleack white or khaki
but our useless saru needs to actually put meaningful rugby developement programmes in place actually.
14 Sep 2012, 13:03 pm
@nama1-176:
For example, if I want to bold I type:left arrow, strong, right arrow …….but instead of the word or phrase, my whole comment will be in bold.
What do I do to prevent that?
14 Sep 2012, 13:04 pm
@Transformation-167:
I agree that the CC means very little in the bigger scheme of things. The level of skill – or the lack thereof – in the competition is shocking. Teams in general do not show patience on attack, far too much kicking away of possession and too many forwards in the backline.
In terms of structures – there are heaps of non-white players in the Craven Week, but what happens to them afterwards? The same can be said about all races of Craven Week players as many of them make it to the Vodacom Cup, but then seem to fall away. If you look at the level of play that they produce it is only the odd one who comes through and, like Hougie, make themselves impossible to ignore. Are the structures really to blame, or is it the disposition of the young players in general – regardless of race? I know quite a couple of young kids who made it to some of the acadamies of the big unions, but they do not make it any further. They seem to enjoy the good life too much and the little bit of limelight that it brings. How does one address that problem?
14 Sep 2012, 13:05 pm
@nama1-176: You use the sharp brackets with either a b (bold) or an i (italics) to open the sequence and then at the end as well, except at the end you insert a / after the 1st <, so with a b in it to start and then a with a b after the / to end.
Simple
14 Sep 2012, 13:06 pm
@nama1-179: See above
sorry to start and to end with a b in both
14 Sep 2012, 13:06 pm
“It was actually disturbing to hear thoughts from the kicking coach Louis Koen last night on Boots & All.
He talked at length about stats, basically reiterating the basis of Meyer’s game plan. In their minds, the issue is that the kicks are key and the chase is where things are going wrong.”
That’s my reason for not watching the **** they dish up – I do not consider this rugby. NZ plays rugby.
Equivalent is cricket would be to bowl underarm deliveries aka Chappel. Allowed to…but UTTER **** for which no salary should be paid.
14 Sep 2012, 13:06 pm
@nama1-179:
@Transie
See
14 Sep 2012, 13:10 pm
Back to Saturday’s game.
This drivel about the game plan being good but only the execution being off is the same **** that we heard PDV spew. The kick and chase game plan is employed by the majority of SA teams and it was the Bok game plan for the last five years, so why should the implementation not be right? It is a very simple game plan. If the players can’t get it right, how thick are they? And if they still cannot manage it after all this time, what the heck are they still doing there? Insanity I tell you.
14 Sep 2012, 13:10 pm
@rangerman-178:
Ranger, tomorrow we need Alberts firing on all cylinders.
Remember him before that Stormers game in Durban. He was going through a bad patch before the, because of the shoulder injury. But in that Stormers game he was in top form.
We need that guy tomorrow for 80mins.
14 Sep 2012, 13:11 pm
@logie_Jumpbuck-151: Maori players have been in NZ representative teams for as long as NZ teams have been playing international fixtures. The ‘lilly white’ teams that earlier toured SA were a requirement of the host nation. The later emergence of Polynesian players in the AB’s is just a reflection of how many Polynesian families have emigrated to NZ for better employment and educational opportunities. Polynesians do tend to physically mature (get big) earlier than their European counterparts, and they do dominate some of the age group grades. At adult level however the difference is much less and the ones that dominate their position do so more through talent than size.
14 Sep 2012, 13:12 pm
Lions lock Etienne Oosthuizen will join Jake White’s Australian Super Rugby side, the Brumbies, later this year.
News 24
14 Sep 2012, 13:12 pm
@stormersboy-181:
Ok, thanks SB. Let’s see if I can get it right.
no doubt that the All Blacks are favorites to win tomorrow. We have won in Dunedin only once and that was after a bit of magic from Ricky January.
Who will be the magician tomorrow if the Boks were to win. Personally, I can’t see anyone in the team replicating that kind of magic that Ricky produced.
14 Sep 2012, 13:14 pm
@logie_Jumpbuck-151: Remember that, pre-isolation, SA never played its strongest team either…
14 Sep 2012, 13:14 pm
@hanneslom-183:
Indeed. Time on the golf course is much better spent than watching this archaic bull dust. I will watch the highlights just to watch how NZ do it. And I used to be so passionate about the Boks…but one can only take so much…it hurts I tell you.
14 Sep 2012, 13:15 pm
@Jeraldjay-186: i fear the sharks players have shot their bolts.
but lets see if the game lifts them, i hope it does.
14 Sep 2012, 13:15 pm
@stormersboy-182:
Got it right.
@nama1-189:
Thanks again.
14 Sep 2012, 13:20 pm
@nama1-193: are you concerned that no one takes your posts seriously nama?
14 Sep 2012, 13:21 pm
@nama1-193: Anytime fella.
Anything else you want to know, just shout OK??
A word of warning though, if you don’t get it right sometimes it formats the whole page into the script you chose.
Fun for the whole family.
14 Sep 2012, 13:26 pm
The Bok team will come out firing just like last week against the Aussies. May even get an early lead and lull their supporters into a fall sense of expectation of a turn around. With players like Alberts and Vermeulen only good for about 50 minutes of test rugby, Flip and Jannie penalty machines awa potential yellow cards, Beast totally off the boil and Strauss out of his depth, I can’t see how our forwards will be able to hold out for 80 minutes.
Bekker and Coetzee will inject some much energy when they come on but by then the rest of the forwards will be huffing and puffing around the field like a bunch of drunk sailors in a **** house.
People still looking for the back line to blame for the performances of the Bok team the last three weeks. Our problem starts right here in the pack and it starts with the wrong loose trio combination, the players not playing to their true potential, then players not utilized correctly and then the inexperience of some.
All Blacks will run away with it in the last 15 minutes.
14 Sep 2012, 13:29 pm
@rangerman-194:
That’s the least of my worries, Rangerman
At least you respond to them.
So, that’s OK with me.
14 Sep 2012, 13:30 pm
@nama1-197: its good that you respect me by bolding your comments to me.
but it isnt neccescary.
14 Sep 2012, 13:31 pm
The blokes on Reunion we’re laughing at the Boks lack of innovation.
14 Sep 2012, 13:32 pm
@stormersboy-195:
I’ll do.
Thanks again.
@nama1-197:
Ahhhh…forgot to put in the forward slash.
14 Sep 2012, 13:33 pm
just joshing you nama, have a good one buddy.
14 Sep 2012, 13:33 pm
Why so bleddie cumbersome?
14 Sep 2012, 13:36 pm
@nama1-200: Ja you almost blew it for everyone there.
Remember: your newly acquired powers are only to be used for good.
14 Sep 2012, 13:37 pm
@willievz-190:
” Remember that, pre-isolation, SA never played its strongest team either…”
Remember that, pre-isolation, Neutral Refs didn’t exist…………
14 Sep 2012, 13:37 pm
@rangerman-198:
Always good to respect people, Rangerman. Especially your elders.
You should try it sometimes.
14 Sep 2012, 13:39 pm
@rangerman-201:
Respect!!!
14 Sep 2012, 13:52 pm
Why do i wake up early on Saturdays here in the US just to watch my BOK’s hoof and hoof and hoof the ball some more? It seems every coach has a love child in their team, with PDV it was ol rolly polly Ricky and HM has MSteyn and that funny thing at full back…. if only SA was had the gonads to change up!
I bet NZ and OZ crack up with laughter at our inability to do anything 100% ….imagine if we had a coach that actually picked on form players? I dont an F about experience, if a player has the mental aptitude then play the g’damn player jeeez!
14 Sep 2012, 13:56 pm
@rangerman-201:
joshing? Is that sending him of to Scotland?
14 Sep 2012, 14:07 pm
Why would anyone wanna bold their comments anyway
14 Sep 2012, 14:09 pm
“181.stormersboy said:
14 Sep 2012, 13:05 pm
@nama1-176: You use the sharp brackets with either a b (bold) or an i (italics) to open the sequence and then at the end as well, except at the end you insert a / after the 1st <, so with a b in it to start and then a with a b after the / to end.
Simple"
This is too complicated
14 Sep 2012, 14:13 pm
@Dawn-209:
Same reason why people use smiley faces perhaps
14 Sep 2012, 14:14 pm
OK, I’ve been put in my place well and truly. I’ll grab my coat, and have my humble pie, but before I do. Nobody has explained to me why NZ can consistanltly perform at the highest level and win 12 out of 14 games anually but the boks can’t. What makes them so special? Coaching? Game plans? Mental toughness? Fitness? Strength? What is it?
Give me the answer and I will show you how to win the world cup in 2015.
14 Sep 2012, 14:17 pm
<bwhatever</b
14 Sep 2012, 14:17 pm
14 Sep 2012, 14:18 pm
@Dawn-214:
how many steps have you taken today?
14 Sep 2012, 14:18 pm
@Dawn-213: you almost had it.
insert text
without the spaces.
14 Sep 2012, 14:19 pm
OK so that didn’t work too well.
You need to open and close the with b in the middle. same at the end, but with a / after the <.
Got it ??
14 Sep 2012, 14:21 pm
@nama1-196:
Let’s disagree on Strauss and Bekker, I rate Strauss highly, Bekker is a listless floater on the field.
The rest sound reasonable for me, could be though that HM assessed a lack of ball skills among the forwards as the major issue in retaining possession and thus instructed the out of sort Styen to kick it away each time
Give him credit for dumping Mvovo
14 Sep 2012, 14:24 pm
Hei, wat gaan hier aan!
Dit klink harder as ‘n klomp klopse op die Parare
14 Sep 2012, 14:26 pm
@cane-204: they still don’t in NZ – and should they happen to ref fairly they get death threats like poor old Barnesy
14 Sep 2012, 14:32 pm
@cane-204: Clive Norling was a “neutral” ref?
14 Sep 2012, 14:37 pm
@Hondo-218:
“Listless floater”
“Dumping Mvovo”
What’s with the toilet humor?
14 Sep 2012, 14:39 pm
@gunther-215:
229!!!!!!!
Only 7000 more to go.
14 Sep 2012, 14:39 pm
Gents, which is the most reliable weather site in SA
14 Sep 2012, 14:39 pm
@stormersboy-216:
I didn’t use any spaces!
14 Sep 2012, 14:41 pm
“You need to open and close the with b in the middle. same at the end, but with a / after the <."
<bwtf<b/
14 Sep 2012, 14:42 pm
@stormersboy-217:
You are useless at instructions.
14 Sep 2012, 14:42 pm
@Dawn-223:
Try using the printer on a different floor.
14 Sep 2012, 14:43 pm
Looks as if I’m swearing all over the place!
14 Sep 2012, 14:44 pm
@XhosaKid-224: The most reliable weather site in the world, or one of them IMHO is http://www.windguru.cz/int/ Almost always correct.
14 Sep 2012, 14:45 pm
@willievz-221: 1981 was pre-isolation? Ahem.
14 Sep 2012, 14:47 pm
@Dawn-229:
Why don’t you sell caramel pops again, that should assist greatly to reach your target …
14 Sep 2012, 14:48 pm
@gunther-228:
I can’t!
Too much effort!
Our team aint gonna win this challenge with me in it.
14 Sep 2012, 14:48 pm
@XhosaKid-224:
There is a Norwegian one that all the surfers and farmers etc use.
http://www.yr.no
Best That I’ve seen.
You going surfing?
14 Sep 2012, 14:50 pm
@XhosaKid-224:
http://www.yr.no/place/South_Africa/Western_Cape/Cape_Town/
14 Sep 2012, 14:51 pm
@gunther-234:
Every day, especially before I got out to fish or surf.
14 Sep 2012, 14:52 pm
@gunther-234: No, I just have an outdoor events tomorrow and Sunday, being a black fellow, open water and cold aren’t my thing.
If farmers are using it, it must be reliable, those okes are proper specialist, like Julius and tenders, kinda thing…..
!!
BTW, do you reckon Faf should be going to the T20 WC
14 Sep 2012, 14:57 pm
@XhosaKid-237:
No.
Neither should Parnell or Richard Levi.
Make sure you put lots of sunscreen on.
The hole in the ozone layer is right above us.
14 Sep 2012, 15:00 pm
@gunther-238:
Do strike me as a guy with a mohawk hairstyle?
14 Sep 2012, 15:01 pm
@gunther-238:
Waseem to you.
14 Sep 2012, 15:01 pm
@Dawn-223:
The average length of a PGA Senior Tour golf course varies…though most are 7,100 to 7,300 yards.
14 Sep 2012, 15:03 pm
@gunther-238: Who would you replace the 3 with, Tsotsobe, M. Morkel, AB, Amla, Duminy, Peterson, Botha, Kallis and Steyn are automatic selections
14 Sep 2012, 15:03 pm
@shooter-241: so just quickly, after morning tea, excuse yourselve, and be back just after the round, in time to clock in your steps.
14 Sep 2012, 15:04 pm
@shooter-241:
Feck me I’d be useless at golf
14 Sep 2012, 15:07 pm
I heard this song for the first time in 1981 in Cape Town City Centre; when did you hear for the 1st time?
*************************************************************************
What do I do if I wanna get through to you?
No matter how I try you always keep me waitin’
What do I do if I wanna get through to you?
No matter how I try you always keep me waitin’
Remember me, I’m the one you danced with
Remember how we danced so tight I could not let you go
I know it’s been a long time, but I’m callin’
‘Cause I’ve got to be with you (First you keep me waitin’)
(Won’t you let me know?) I’ve got to be with you
(Won’t you let me know?)
I never told you that I loved you
‘Cause I could never take for granted you would feel the same
Now I can’t take the waiting any longer
I just got to let you know (First you keep me waitin’)
(Won’t you let me know?) Yes, I got to let you know
(Won’t you let me know?)
What do I do if I wanna get through to you?
No matter how I try you always keep me waitin’
What do I do if I wanna get through to you?
No matter how I try you always keep me waitin’
I bet you’ve come to your conclusion
But now you’re gonna take a little longer to recline
Eventhough you know just what you’ll say
I guess that’s just the way girls play (First you keep me waitin’)
(Won’t you let me know?) Yeah, that’s just the way you play
(Won’t you let me know?)
What do I do if I wanna get through to you?
No matter how I try you always keep me waitin’
What do I do if I wanna get through to you?
No matter how I try you always keep me waitin’
I would really like to believe that
If you want to spend some time with me
You may decide you love me too
Well, it must be worth the waiting
Or I would not be sitting here alone all night long
What do I do if I wanna get through to you?
No matter how I try you always keep me waitin’
What do I do if I wanna get through to you?
No matter how I try you always keep me waitin’
What do I do if I wanna get through to you?
No matter how I try, I’m always waiting for you
What do I do if I wanna get through to you?
No matter how I try, oh, why do I just keep on sitting here?
What do I do if I wanna get through to you?
Oh, yeaheah!
14 Sep 2012, 15:08 pm
@Sheriff-239:
You’ll have to repeat that in English Sharif.
14 Sep 2012, 15:08 pm
@Nils-231: Fair enough.
But even in 81 we did not pick our best team…
14 Sep 2012, 15:08 pm
@Dawn-244: you can always caddy?
14 Sep 2012, 15:10 pm
@shooter-248:
whatyoutalkingaboutfool
That’s 8000 steps PLUS A BAG OF GOLF CLUBS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I’m a very sedentary type of person
14 Sep 2012, 15:11 pm
@logie_Jumpbuck-148: It doesn’t seem like you’re making the poaching excuse but just in case I’d like to point out that off the top of my head, the only non-NZ born player the ABs have fielded this year was Ben Franks, who was born in Australia.
You have a point that we have some talented and big polynesian boys but look at our key players – McCaw, Carter, and Read – these guys are white, and Dagg, I’m not sure, maybe part Maori?
I expected professionalism would have caught up with us by now and larger countries like SA, England, and France would have passed us but the coaches we have are still coming through and keeping us afloat. Perhaps it’ll be different when once in a generation players like Carter and McCaw are gone
14 Sep 2012, 15:11 pm
@gunther-246:
Skeer jy jou hare soos Mr T?
14 Sep 2012, 15:15 pm
@XhosaKid-242:
Herschelle.
Albie Morkel.
Ingram or Miller.
14 Sep 2012, 15:16 pm
@logie_Jumpbuck-212: Nothing makes them spesial.They do suffer less injuries then us, less interruptions.
Coaching – The same
Game plans – NZ is less worried about “game plans” then us. They try to keep things simple and far less complicated. (probably the reason for their poor WC performances)
Mental toughness – Perhaps better then us. (the amount of games that they have won in the last 10 min of a game)
Fitness – When Tony Brown played for the Sharks, he couldnt believe how hard the SA’s players train when on tour.
Strength – We probably have the edge.
14 Sep 2012, 15:18 pm
@XhosaKid-237:
Interestingly though du Plessis had a superb IPL on similar wickets so who knows.
His legspin might be useful too.
Although Petersen Duminy and Botha should have that covered.
Don’t be suprised if he opens instead of Levi.
14 Sep 2012, 15:22 pm
@gunther-254:
What y’all talking about
Is Chris Gayle playing in this thing
When does it start
14 Sep 2012, 15:22 pm
@Dawn-249:
you can always walk 7 times around the building in your lunchtime with a sign saying frack this walking thing!
or write a 7000 step manual on how to win friends and influence bloggers. and say you understood the assignment differently.
14 Sep 2012, 15:23 pm
@shooter-256:
Sshhhhh!
Dont talk so loud!
14 Sep 2012, 15:24 pm
@shooter-256:
Besides.
If I walk 7 times around the building when do I eat.
14 Sep 2012, 15:27 pm
@Dawn-258: What floor do you work on? Taking the stairs will account for a lot of steps.
Also, come and caddy for me. I play such a zigzag game, you’ll have all 8000 steps logged before the third tee box.
14 Sep 2012, 15:29 pm
@Dawn-255:
Next week.
I think he’s injured.
Again.
14 Sep 2012, 15:34 pm
@katman-259:
Indeed.
I would like to see Dawns face when you asked her for your Bobby Locke edition mashie niblick.
14 Sep 2012, 15:37 pm
@Dawn-258: Sorry Dawn.
I’m more of a do-er than a teacher
14 Sep 2012, 15:37 pm
sit at your desk and play some hip hop through your headphones.
tap your feet to the beat.
those little step machines are easily fooled.
14 Sep 2012, 15:40 pm
@charo-263:
Dawns already had a Hip op.
That’s why she’s struggling with the step machine.
14 Sep 2012, 15:41 pm
@katman-259: Watch out for the out-of-bounds at Devonvale
14 Sep 2012, 15:43 pm
@gunther-261: You should see her place a cover on a broomstick putter.
14 Sep 2012, 15:49 pm
@katman-266:
Oh dear lord.
Im dreaming of her handling my fairway wood.
14 Sep 2012, 15:51 pm
@katman-259:
Caddying sounds cool.
I’m in.
14 Sep 2012, 15:53 pm
Are these all names of golf clubs?
All I know is the big one they use to hit furthest shot.
14 Sep 2012, 15:54 pm
@gunther-264:
What you talking about.
My hips are intact.
14 Sep 2012, 15:55 pm
@katman-259:
10th floor, but the dolphin is parked on 7th, so I only get to walk three floors
14 Sep 2012, 15:57 pm
@charo-263: brilliant
maybe hang it outside the window in the Suidoos on a string, or take flaffie and a tennisball to work, strap it on, and make him fetch. ok ok i know.
14 Sep 2012, 15:57 pm
@bokfan1-163: Plesier Mnr…
Meyer vok, weet, bokke is ‘n seldsame en delikate melksuig dinges, now he gaan kakkalak maak met nasionale slaaptyd
14 Sep 2012, 15:57 pm
@Dawn-271:
Nothing but the best for the Dolphin.
14 Sep 2012, 15:59 pm
@gunther-267: If you’re lucky you’ll get free relief.
14 Sep 2012, 16:01 pm
@katman-275:
It’s the best part about landing in a divot.
14 Sep 2012, 16:02 pm
@shooter-272:
People are sitting here knocking it against their heads and clocking up the steps.
14 Sep 2012, 16:06 pm
@gunther-260:
What’s with my man Chris.
Always injured
How very Jamaican
14 Sep 2012, 16:09 pm
@gunther-254: I would take that, he’s bound to have a good game soon, he has talent after all, but I’m biased towards Ingram and Miller.
14 Sep 2012, 16:16 pm
@XhosaKid-279:
Both good players.
Doesn’t one of them bowl tweakers as well?
14 Sep 2012, 16:18 pm
@Dawn-278:
He’s always pulling his groin.
Or someone’s pulling it for him.
14 Sep 2012, 16:26 pm
@gunther-280: Ingram does the left arm thing, Miller as well but couldn’t turn it on a gravel road to Nkandla.
14 Sep 2012, 16:27 pm
@Dawn-278: Must be the nights he spend in those dancehall clubs in Montego Bay……
14 Sep 2012, 16:29 pm
@PielNeus-273:
Can you speak English
Eeeeennngglish
14 Sep 2012, 16:31 pm
@Zandberg Jansen-253:
If you think that the NZ coaching level is the same of SA you must be blind as well as deaf. Their coaching is streets above ours. Pull the other one
Nag ou grote
14 Sep 2012, 16:34 pm
@XhosaKid-282:
Don’t worry Maevis has the tender for that road.
It won’t be tarred in our lifetime.
14 Sep 2012, 16:56 pm
@Soda-1:
Zero. Because fools like you don’t take the personnel circumstances into account.
14 Sep 2012, 20:44 pm
@GI POT-285: thats why i just kept quiet…
just look in europe, kiwi coaches are a dime a dozen with the latest to join the fray being cantab scholar rob penney who is now in charge at Munster…
no comparison.
14 Sep 2012, 23:29 pm
@Dawn-227:
@stormersboy-262:
You are a great teacher. It’s just that Dawn’a comprehension took a dip since she started to support the Bulls.
Why did I and TMR get it so quickly?
Don’t let Dawn confuse you.
15 Sep 2012, 07:28 am
You never know, sometimes the All Blacks keep their game too simple that they end up being surprised. Maybe Meyer knows this and is doing the ‘FrenchRWC plan’.
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